MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Michael Chandler On Dustin Poirier Fight; Kayla Harrison on PFL Pay & Level of Competition

Episode Date: August 9, 2022

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC lightweight contender Michael Chandler and two-time PFL champion Kayla Harrison join the show. Chandler will discuss the rumored fight against Dustin Poirier and why he believes now is the perfect time to make that matchup. He also details his recent run in with Poirier and whether the altercation has somehow turned this rivalry more personal for him. Chandler also breaks down the upcoming lightweight title fight between Charles Oliveira and Islam Makhachev and why he’s not sold on Makhachev quite yet. Harrison also joins the show to preview her upcoming fight at the PFL card in London, which was also the site where she became an Olympic gold medalist. Harrison addresses criticism about her level of competition in the PFL as well as her current salary where she’s counted among the highest paid fighters in the sport. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded

two, ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. Back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I'm your host, as always, Damon Martin, and I am officially COVID-free, so I'm very excited about that, and I'm also very excited about our show today, because we have a couple of

great guests, very relevant guests with everything going on in the world of mixed martial arts. We're going to be talking to UFC lightweight contender Michael Chandler in just a few moments. He, of course, is in the news right now for a potential fight against Dustin Porreier before the end of the year. They're talking about November, December, nothing done quite yet, but everything's moving in that direction. And we'll talk to Michael about the fight with Dustin Porier, potential fight with Dustin

Porier, Connor McGregor, the upcoming fight between Charles Olivera and Islam Machashev and a whole lot more, including his. is knock it over Tony Ferguson, which I actually never had the chance to talk to him about. So we're going to talk to him. We're also going to talk to arguably the most dominant women's fighter on the planet right now, PFL, two-time PFL champion, Kayla Harrison. She makes her return to action in just a matter of weeks as she fights over in London, the site where she won her gold medal in the Olympics.

So we're going to talk to Kayla about returning to the site of one of her biggest athletic achievements, her upcoming fight, as well as the perception that she is taking. on lesser and lesser competition, which is, you'll hear in the interview. You'll hear in the interview. I don't want to spoil anything there, but you'll hear in the interview we talk about maybe how that's a little bit, a little bit overblown in terms of the level of competition when you compare to some of the fighters other top women are facing. Just throwing that out there. So yeah, with that being said, we're going to kick things off, of course, with Michael Chandler, because, you know, he's got a lot going on right now. He's, of course, rumor for this fight with Dustal Porre,

is a fight that makes all the sense in the world. You know, Dustin doesn't have a fight. Michael doesn't have a fight. You know, Connor McGregor's not coming back. It looks like until 2023. While I love the Connor McGregor fight for Michael Chandler, and I think that was a perfect fight for Connor to come back to, stylistically, a more favorable matchup than, say, a wrestler or a grappler,

you know, predominant grappler. Unfortunately, it looks like Connor's not going to be back this year. And now he's filming the new Roadhouse movie. Got a lot of thoughts on that one. Not like in a negative way, just because Roadhouse is one of my all-time favorite films. I love Roadhouse. Remaking it. I'm not a huge, huge fan of remakes, but there are a few good ones out there.

Go watch Zach Snyder's Dawn of the Dead. There's a couple of decent remakes out there. So, you know, we'll hope for the best. Jake Gyllenhaal's legit. I think that's a lot better idea than Rhonda Rousey. So we'll see, but Connor's going to be doing some filming for that. So it looks like he's not going to be back before the end of the year, which kind of nicks is the fight with Chandler and everyone else is booked.

You know, Olivares fighting Islam, Benil Daryush has got Matush Gammarot, not a lot of other options. And who wouldn't want to watch Dustin Porre and Michael Chandler throwdown for three or five rounds? I mean, come on. So with that being said, let's talk to the man who may end up fighting Dustin Porier before the end of 2022. Here is Michael Chandler. He is one of the top lightweight fighters in the world, and I am always happy to speak to this guy. We go back quite a long ways, and I haven't had a chance to catch up with him since his huge knockout over Tony Ferguson.

Welcome in today, Michael Chandler. Michael, how are you? What's up, Damien? I'm doing good, man. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Always a pleasure to catch up with you. As I said, you're always a very busy guy traveling.

You went to London. You're always doing these things. So I'm backtracking a little bit here. So I know this is obviously months later. But, man, have you still, like, how many times at this point have you seen the highlight of you knocking out Tony Ferguson? Is it in the hundreds of thousands at this point? It has been acquired a bit.

mainly because social media, I mean, I'm basically tagged on, I'm tagged on that kick pretty much every day, multiple times a day. So I can't say that it ever gets old. Obviously, you know, when you train as hard as we do as mixed martial artists, it's hard for, it's hard for fans to understand, but when you train as much as hard as we do and you sacrifice as much as we do to be able to have highlight real type of knockouts like that, also knowing that it could be you at any point in time, you know, you can, you can make a highlight reel or be made a highlight reel, you can make a meme, be made a meme when you realize that we are fighting within fractions of inches is just, you know, it's cool to see, and people love it, so we'll see if it's

K-O of the year, hopefully. Yeah, now you've had a lot of big finishes. Now, I'm not going to say the Tony Ferguson win was the biggest win, because you obviously had championship wins, things like that, that I'm sure you would probably say we're bigger in terms of your career, the achievement kind of thing. But in terms of your finishes, I think of Benson Henderson, I think of Patrici Pitbull, I think of the submission over Eddie Alvarez, does this top the list in your favorite finish?

Not the, none of the biggest win, but would you say this is now your favorite finish? I would say so. I mean, I think, you know, the body is an amazing thing. You know, sometimes it gets knocked out stiff. Sometimes it gets knocked out really loose and just kind of loosey-goosey rubbery, So sometimes guys fall flat on their face. Sometimes they fall flat on their back.

Like that's why we watch the sport to see somebody, you know, get knocked out. And this was definitely one of those that people said, you know, ooh, that was a rough one, you know. So I by no means, you know, it kind of sounds sick to say that it was, you know, satisfying because, you know, ultimately, I respect every guy that I step in the cage with and want the best for them and their health. But obviously we all, we are playing a dangerous game called Minix. martial arts. And the way that that fight ended, the way that, the way that his body crumbled, the way that the foot landed right on the chin, it was probably, it was easily the most, I think kind of the, the most exciting best knockout of my entire career. Like you said,

not the biggest win that I've had, but the cleanest and most dominant and kind of most scary, to be quite honest. Yeah. And also, you're the first person ever do that to Tony Ferguson. I mean, yes, Justin Gage, he had a TKO win over him. But, you know, Tony, was still on his feet. You know, he was still like kind of, I won't say complaining, but he was, you know, he definitely still kind of raised his hands up when that fight got stopped. Now, I think that was a perfectly fine stoppage. But you're the first person ever do that to him.

I mean, again, not that you're sitting here, you know, wearing a T-shirt that says, I knocked out Tony Ferguson, but knowing who that guy has fought, knowing the wars that guy has gone through to be the first guy to ever actually knock him out, that is a feather in your cap, right? Like, I'm not, again, I'm not saying you're walking around the billboard saying, I knocked him out, but it is a, it is a cool achievement. Yeah, no, of course. You know, when you talk about it and you bring it up, yeah, there's certain guys that you just, you know, you don't expect certain things. You know, you don't expect certain guys to get submitted because their BJJ is so good. You don't expect certain guys to get knocked out because their chin is so good. And yeah, Tony Ferguson never being knocked out cold. Dan Hooker never being knocked out to the head. He had been knocked out to the body. So TKOing him for the first time in his career, that was another feather in my cap. You know, you're trying to. to just create not just wins, but dominant wins to continue to prove to the fans, to prove to

yourself, to prove to the media, to prove to your family, why you train so hard and why you make the sacrifices and that you are one of the best in the world. And I think being the first to do that at Tony was definitely something that, you know, I can hang on my Mount Rushmore of mixed martial arts career whenever I finally do hang it up down the line. And yeah, we got the finish, we got the win and we're going to see what's next. Absolutely. So with that being said, Michael, coming out of that fight, I'll be honest. Like, I just assumed we would be talking right now about the matchup you got booked against Connor McGregor. I just thought that was going to happen. It seemed like a foregone conclusion.

Connor wanted it. You wanted it. The UFC was interested. It all seemed like the pieces were falling in place. But now we've heard, sounds like Connor, maybe not till the end of the year, maybe early 2023, which again, I understand he had a broken leg. I don't think anybody should rush back from that. I know I talked to Chris Wyden early in his time coming back from the broken. Legg. He's like, oh yeah, I think I'm going to be back. I think you said this summer. Well, you know, broken legs is a serious injury. You can't rush that. You got to take time. Now we've heard, of course, the rumor swirl. And I'm sure you've heard it. You know about it to fight with Dustin Porriere. So can you give us any kind of update? Like, where are you at in terms of what's next? I know you just went back down to Florida. You know, to train with your team, of course, at the, well, excuse me, formerly Sanford MMA, now Killcliff, MMA.

But like, kind of give me a sense of where you're at right now. Yeah, you know, first things first, as you talk about Connor, yeah, I mean, when you talk about when you talk about Connor, when you talk about these real leg breaks, not the ones that just kind of, you know, a small little hairline fracture and you got to wear a boot for a couple weeks. You're talking about cracking the bone in half, breaking it in half, having to have a rod surgically inserted into the bone. You're talking about real surgery stuff. And obviously, yes, have I called out Connor? Do I want to fight Connor? Do I think me and Connor would be the biggest fight that we can make a mixed martial arts?

Yes, I do. But I also, you know, the guy has earned the right to be able to sit out as long as he needs to to heal because the sport of mixed martial arts and the UFC, quite frankly, is better when Connor is fighting and is in it and is active. So he needs to come back at the right time when he is healed. That being said, yeah, I mean, at this point, it looks like everyone else is matched up, except for myself and Dustin Forier. You know, obviously he's been a guy that's been on my radar.

I spoke to you before. When I first came into the UFC, we asked two guys. the fight and both turned down the fight. Number one was Tony Ferguson. I have since now fought him and the other one was Dustin Poirier. Now I'm not implying that they, you know, turned down the fight because they were scared to me. I was a brand new guy coming in from outside of the UFC, made a lot of sense for them to, you know, fight someone else inside the top five, a little bit of a less risky fight, if you will. But now, as I've solidified myself and cut my teeth in the in the UFC and legitimate top guy now, it's time for me to win another fight and then go win

title. I truly believe that Charles Olivera beats Islam in October, and then I fight next for the title when I beat Dustin Porriet or whoever they put in against me. But a lot can change in this sport as of right now. That's, you know, the rumors that are swirling. That's what a lot of sounds like the fans want to see. So we'll see. Later on this, later on this wintertime, it might be him and I. So. Yeah. I'll circle back to Dustin in a second. I do want to follow up real quick on Connor because the Connor fight is the biggest. Let's just be honest. That's the biggest fight you could get. It would be a massive, massive fight. We both agree on that. And again, I think Connor wants it too. Connor has said he would like to fight you. So again, it makes

all the sense of the world. But is there a bit of a time limit on the waiting game. Like I know you told me before, like waiting for Connor is worth it. But does there, there has to be an expiration day, right? Like, you know, now that we're hearing maybe 2023, that means you'd be out the rest of this year. And I'm sure you don't want to sit out the entire 2022 still with the other. uncertainty of when he's coming back. Maybe it's January, maybe it's February. Maybe it's not until April or May. We don't know.

Is that kind of the problem with the Conner Fy right now, is there's just no definitive timeline when he's going to fight again? Yeah, I mean, that is the only problem that we have right now. And truthfully, like you said, if there was a guaranteed, hey, this fight is definitely happening. I would have no problem waiting a couple extra months into January, February, even March of next year. but this is the support of mixed martial arts. A lot changes every single day.

And you're also talking about the biggest combat sports icon on the planet. There's rumors out there of him fighting Floyd Mayweather. There's rumors of him never coming back. There's rumors of him coming back, you know, by the end of the year. We don't know when Connor's coming back. So with that amount of uncertainty, it would be really, I think, foolish to hitch, your wagon to that fight itself. Do I want that fight?

Of course. Do I think that fight is going to happen eventually? Absolutely. But I'm still, my number one goal isn't to fight Connor, it's to win the title. My number one goal is to be the UFC champion to be the number one guy on the entire planet. So I've got to get through somebody else in the top five, get another win underneath my belt, and then go fight Charles or Islam, whoever wins that fight in October, probably in the first quarter of next year.

I'll be your champion by March, April, May of next year. I love it. I love it. All right. So let's talk about the Dustin Porre. situation because Michael, I mean this is a compliment. You know, you speak your mind when it comes to fights. You speak your mind when it comes to opponents.

You have no problem giving your predictions on how a fight's going to play out or how you think someone else's fights are going to play out. But outside of that, and again, I mean this is a compliment. You're like the least controversial guy in the sport. You're not the guy who takes cheap shots. You're not the guy who says things about people's families. You got a family. You got two kids, which, by the way, I haven't spoken to you since you had your other son.

Congratulations there. I forgot to mention that at the top of the end. interview. But you're not that guy. You're just, you've never been that guy. We go back all the way at the beginning of your career. You've never been that guy. So when I saw the thing with Dustin Portier at the UFC event where he's shouting at you and cursing at you, listen, be clear, I know Dustin very well. I like Dustin very much. Dustin's incredibly nice guy. Does a lot of great things outside of the sport. And I'll be honest, Dustin's not really that guy either. He's not the guy to cause trouble or say bad things about people's faith. He's got a family himself. And like, if it was

is Colby Covington, who has attacked him personally on so many occasions, I probably would expect Dustin to say something to him or go up to him and have words or maybe throw a few fists. But that altercation that was so weird and out of character. Did it catch you off guard as well? Because from my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it was him shouting at you. It wasn't like you were trying to engage with Dustin. That's how it happened.

But it was just so bizarre because it just seemed really out of character. Yeah, no, yeah, I mean, to be honest, I agree with you on how Dustin is and how he carries himself and what he does and the champion that he is, the father, the husband that he is, the community servant that he is. I truly believe, you know, you don't see a lot of controversy coming out of Dustin. You know, that night, I, you know, I was walking down to my seats with my wife and we, everybody in the, you know, all the UFC guys have a kind of a security guard that's kind of overseeing them, of course. and all of a sudden they stopped me on my tracks as we were about to sit in our seat because it was that front row and Dustin was down there and they said hey hey actually stop right here he's not going to go down there and I basically was just like wait what's going on here my seat's over there and I was going to go sit down they said no come around with me so we went around the front kind of between the cage and then the first row and all of a sudden I just heard some shouting and kind of turned around and realized it was Dustin kind of pointing at me doing that number and I could tell that he was talking to me you know but I did you know I was did did that way you're talking to me. You know, like you said, it caught me completely off guard. I'm not there to get in physical.

I'm not there to get in verbal or physical altercations or any kind of controversy, you know, ever. That's not my, not my nature. Quite frankly, I shy away from it. I am kind of a pacifist by nature in a lot of ways, except for when I go out there and get paid for it inside the octagon. But, you know, basically just kind of fought my way over to get closer to them because the security guards didn't, they were trying to pull us away. of it. I was like, hey, man, I got to at least see what he's saying.

Because it was far away. Music's playing. Lights are flashing everywhere. You can hear the crowd noise. So I couldn't understand what he was saying and just went over and got close. And, you know, he said his piece and he's got a problem with me. And I also think he's just kind of very hungry for a fight right now. You know, I think he also got into it a little bit with Nate Diaz that night as well. So I think he's looking for a fight.

You know, he needs the fight. He wants to get a fight. I think, you know, we're coming up on, what, eight, nine, nine, ten months. since he's been in the cage, you know, so I think he fought last December. So, you know, he's hungry for a fight. He's ready to get back at it. And I was the, you know, I was the target that night. Yeah, it's so weird because I think the, the quote unquote, worst thing, which isn't

really bad, when you address Dustin after your winner of Retone, you basically said you you weren't as interested in that fight because he kind of brushed by you a little bit when you came in. He didn't seem interested in fine. You kind of, I don't say ignored you, but just, you know, kind of brushed you off when when you brought up fighting him, he kind of said, oh, I'm not interested in that fight. And in turn, you kind of return to favor. I guess that's the best way to say you kind of return to favor.

Well, I'm not interested in fighting you either. That to me is so not controversial. Like that, again, you know, the things Colby Covington has said disgusting things about his family, which I don't think anyone should condone. That I understand being upset about it. But it was just so weird because like that, again, that's like the least, like I remember when you fought the Pitbull Brothers. And they said every, like every manner of terrible.

thing about you and you always took the high road you never you never fired back at them personally and never tried to go down to that level the things they were saying about you you responded but you never went to the level they were saying about you it's just such a weird like that seems like the weirdest reason to get upset yeah no absolutely and that's uh that's kind of one of those things where it's just uh you know i i think uh i think we're very similar to each other to be honest with you you know he and i have had similar paths we both kind of you know small town kids, getting after, we were sometimes the most similar people kind of butt heads, if you will. But I do think it does stem back to, you know, him saying, hey, instead of fight channel,

I'd rather go sell hot sauce. And, you know, I took that as a slight, obviously. But, you know, and then since then I actually did accidentally really in one interview. I completely forgot to mention his name inside the title picture. But it was only, sorry, my son just saying to me this. No worries. this uh this uh walkie talking about scott um but that was because at that time he was talking about never making 155 again he was talking about going up to 170 he was campaigning hard for the diaz fight so in my mind he had already left uh the lightweight division you know so i think that's what

you know kind of set him off or made him not too happy with me but hey man at some point i'm not really that worried about it um i respect him as a fighter i respect everybody that i've ever fought i respect everybody I train with to live this life is no no easy task especially with the wife, especially with the daughter, for me, especially with two sons. So I'm going to enjoy the road. We'll see if this fight gets booked. And if it does, you know it's going to be fireworks. Because one thing you can't say is that Dustin's ever been in a boring fight or that

I've ever been in a boring fight. So there's going to be fireworks whenever it happens. You said in another, when you were over in London, you were doing the Scrumwood Media and you said that, you know, somebody coming after you in that way is not the way to get a fight with you. And I think I know enough about you to say that you're not that guy. Like you just like, like Connor, he was very respectful. You know, I know Connor can say crazy things, but Connor very respectful, like the fight. Okay, let's book it.

Same kind of thing. But now that, you know, it seems like just by process of elimination, Dustin appears to be the guy because there's just nobody else out there. But Neil Darius is booked. You mentioned Charles and Islam are booked. Obviously he's just knocked out Tony. You know, Fiziev just fought, but he's out for a while with a broken note, all the things. So there's really no one else around for you to fight.

By process of elimination, does it seem like Porre is probably going to be the guy? That's what it seems like, yeah, by process of elimination. And, yeah, as you alluded to earlier, yeah, I mean, that's definitely not the way to get a fight with me. And truthfully, I think there could be a misperception or a misconception of what the media or the fans. I mean, not really the media because you guys understand the sport more, but the casual fan, like, oh, he said something about his mom, so he's going to want to fight him. You know, it's one of those things where that's not really what motivates us to fight each other.

You know, every now and then you get some real grudge matches, but more often than not, those grudge matches actually make sense to move you forward or title contention. You're never going to see a top five guy, you know, look back at the top 25, the number 25 guy, because the 25 guys said something about his mom or his wife. He's never going to do it because it just doesn't make sense in the pecking order. or the latter of mixed martial arts.

This one, obviously, Porreier makes sense. But, yes, I'm not going to fight him because of that verbal altercation. I'm not going to fight him because I just like him. I'm not going to fight him to prove something. I'm going to fight him. If I do fight him, I'm going to say yes and sign the contract because I want to win the title. And he's a guy who's ranked ahead of me, deservedly so. And I go out there and beat him and then get the title.

Yeah. When you came in the UFC, when you signed with the UFC, we did an interview and I remember you named a few guys at that point you said before I'm done these are guys I need to fight. Kabib was obviously at the top of the list you know of course we know he's now since retired. Gachie was on that list. Of course you had the epic war fight of the year with him. A couple other guys I know Connor I think was on the list but you also did mention Dustin. That's a fight you've always thought about having. You always thought it'd be a fun fight. If it does happen, how do you see that when playing out? Because it is a really fun fight.

It is a fight that we much like the Gachi fight. We don't really need to talk about it. We know it's going to be entertaining. We know it's going to be a battle, probably going to be a knockout, going to be a war, however you want to say it. But how do you see that playing out? Now that you know a little bit more about Dustin seeing him fight recently, and now I know you've got your feet wet in the UFC, all those kind of things.

How do you see a fight with Dustin playing out? I think I've always liked that fight. I've always loved the Dustin-Pourate fight. You know, and it's not because he's not a great fighter. It's not because he's not extremely skilled. I've just always watched him from afar and always thought, you know, he's good. But I do think I beat him. I think I've got his number.

I think I'm the guy inside of that fire that will continue to put it on him. And he won't be able to finish me. He won't be able to put me away. I'll match him cardio for cardio, strike for strike, wrestling for wrestling, grappling for grappling. And then it comes down to a battle of wills, and I think I win that battle. I truly do. Also, I wake up every morning thinking about being a UFC champion.

I've had one crack at it. Dustin's now had a couple cracks at it. And he's talked about going up to 170. I think it's hard for him to make the wait. I think he's talked about retiring. He's talked about passion. He's talked about desire. Does he have it anymore?

He's talked about fighting Nate Diaz. We all know what fighting Nate Diaz means or going after a fight against Nate Diaz. it begs the question, you know, does he, does he truly believe that he is one of the best in the world anymore? I think he's one of the best in the world, but he's also got had a couple counterfeights. He's got a little bit of money in the bank. He's getting older. He is hard, it's hard for him to make the weight. Talk about going up to 170. These are all telltale signs that, you know, I think this is the right time for me to fight him and the wrong time for him to fight me. And that's no disrespect to him. I'm just,

I want to compete against him. I want to compete against anybody inside the top five who's going to get me toward a title shot. And he's a good boxer, South Paul, counterstriker. I think I can match him punch for punch. I think my boxing and kickboxing, I've always done very well against South Paul's. I've ever lost to a South Paul. Matter of fact, I've knocked out every South Paul that I have fought. And I like fighting South Paul.

and power shots all day long. I love it. I love it. Now, in terms of the timeline, here we are in August. You know, of course, we know some of these cards are already getting booked through October, November. We've already heard some fights getting into doubts. Do you have, like, ideally, like if they're saying, hey, Michael, we want you to

fight, Porre, or whoever it is, do you have an ideal date? Like, obviously we got the MSG card coming up in November. That would be big. December's always big. It's the year-in card. You know how big that card is. So, of course, that's a big one. Haven't heard a ton about October.

I know we know October is going to be Abu Dhabi. That one's already pretty much filled. in terms of pay-per-view. This doesn't feel like a fight-night card. Don't get me wrong. This could easily be a main event, but I feel like this is a pay-per-view fight. I think we both know this is a pay-per-view fight.

This is not, you know, somebody's throwing a fight-night card, even if it's the main event. So we got November, MSG, we got December, which is the year-in card we assume is going to be in Vegas. Do you have a preference? I think both of those are options, you know.

If I had a preference, I'll tell you, I want December in Vegas, because, you know, Damon, I'm in sign with the UFC now, it dang near two years, and I haven't fought in Vegas yet. You know, I want to, I want to fight in Vegas. You know, I want to, I want to feel that fight weak in Vegas. I want to, I want to see how that, you know, the UFC, because I've seen it from afar.

I've been on fight weeks, but I've never actually fought there in Vegas under the UFC or anywhere or any organization for that matter. But I just, I want to experience that, you know. I got to experience MSG a couple months or I guess, you know, almost a year ago now. And I fought there twice now. It's not that I don't want to fight there. I love fighting there. New York's a huge market.

And it's somewhat of a, it's somewhat of a, it's somewhat of a feather in your cap to, for the UFC to want to put you on the Madison Square Garden card. Because you know that's, that means you're one of the, one of the big guys or gals that they want to put on the big, big card. So either of those is great. Timeline worked out great for both of those. Definitely not coming back earlier than November.

I want to spend some time with my family. healed up, doing some other things as well, and just enjoying life right now. But I am ready to get in there by the end of the year and get in the training camp here very soon. Absolutely. You mentioned it earlier, Michael. I want to circle back to what you said about the upcoming fight in October between Islam Makachev and Charles Oliver. You know, since fighting Charles Olivera, you have been one of the guys who've kind of been banging the drum, you know, praising Charles Oliverer for what he's done. We did our conversation last year.

You said he's my fight of the year, without a doubt. Charles Olivares earned it. He's incredible. All the respect to the world for him. And you've praised him since then. And you've picked him to beat Islam Makachev. Now, maybe you've seen the odds. I'm not a big odds guy in terms of what the odds makers say.

I know it's all about making money. So they make certain things inflated, whatever, to try to make money. But Islam's a pretty heavy favorite. Now, I think Islamakov's incredible. I think he's a monster. I think he's very, very good. But the idea that Charles Lolovaer can't hang with a guy like that to me is utterly ridiculous.

And I like that you've already called your shot. You think Charles is going to win the fight. So let me ask, you believe he's going to win, how does he beat Islam Makachia? Because there's this perception that he can't, which I think is stupid. No, it's a very silly perception. And truth be told, I was that guy.

I mean, you remember the buildup to my fight with Charles. I truly believe that he was going to quit. You know, we'd seen it in the past. We had seen that he wasn't that tough. We had seen that he had a tendency to find a way out. in fights. He has proven time and time again, both against me and then Gai Chi, or Porre and Gaichi, he was in a fire in those fights and came back and won every single one of them. You know, he has shown his toughness. He has shown his gall. He has shown his continued, uh, increased

improvement in his striking, which obviously he's one of the best, he's probably the best grappler in the UFC right now today, for sure. And he's become a very, very effective, basic, long-rangey kickboxer. And he's done very, very well with it. He manages the distance very well. If he does get hurt, he can just pull guard, which actually you saw that in the Gaiti fight and the Porre fight. He gets hit. He just falls to his back. It's actually a great, it's actually a very, very great technique because nobody's going to jump into his guard. Well, I did. I jumped into his guard, but nobody else, nobody else jumped into his guard because I wasn't scared of the grappling exchange. I wasn't scared of him having my back.

I wasn't scared of him having double hooks in or a figure four. Maybe that's, you know, maybe that's just lunacy and ego talking, but I want to do at least see what it felt like. And, you know, I got out of it. I was the only guy that got out of it out of me, Porier and Gaichi. But I just think nothing against Islam, like you said, you know, you say he's great. You say he looks, you know, he says you look unbeatable at times. But, dagum, he hasn't really fought anybody.

You know, that's really the truth. he beat number 14 and then he beat Dan Hooker who was on a three or four fight losing streak. And now people will say, well, one of your wins was against Dan Hooker. So, you know, what are you talking about? I fought Dan Hooker at a different time. He had just went 25 minutes with Dustin Porre, who at that time was the number two lightweight on the entire planet, you know? So I just think Islam's strengths are also Charles's strengths. And Charles' striking is better.

and I do think, I don't know, I just think, I think Charles is more skilled, you know, I think if Islam can go out there and he is, and he actually is that strong, he actually is that dominant with position, then, you know, Charles is going to have a long night, but I think Charles is just too slick, too good, and he's going to give him fits on the feet, and it's going to be hard to take Charles, or it won't be hard to take Charles down, but I think Charles wins the grappling exchanges. Yeah, it's a weird, and you're absolutely right, listen, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Islam Makacham. I do think he's a beast.

but we can't argue against the fact that he hasn't faced the top guys yet. He just hasn't. I mean, he hasn't fought you. He hasn't fought Porriy. He hasn't fought Tony. He hasn't fought established top five guys, Gaci, you know what I mean? And that's again, that's a, maybe he is as good as we all think he is. Maybe he is as good as everyone's saying, but he just hasn't had that chance to prove he.

Now, this is his chance. If he meets Charles Olivera, we'll all praise him. But again, he hasn't had that yet. If he had gone out there and beat Justin Gachie and did it dominantly, maybe we have a different story. We just don't know. There is that question about Islam. Yeah, no, and I agree with you. Like I say, I'm not, I'm not saying that he's not that good. I'm just saying that we can't say that he is that good yet. It's premature praise, you know, and it's premature praise in the betting odds, like you said. I mean, to make Islam the favorite in that fight is somewhat

crazy, I think. And maybe that's just me, you know, sticking up for Charles, because I do, you know, watching Charles and seeing what he's done, resurrecting his career, somewhat of a, somewhat of a couldn't be relied on up and down, win some, lose some kind of journeyman to now, you know,

a very dominant champion on a win streak. So he's definitely one of the, you know, one of the best fighters, pound for pound in the world. And I think he goes out there and gets the job done. Yeah.

Now, I don't like to ask a lot of what if questions, Michael, because there's just so many things that can change in this sport. We know that. our conversation today could completely change three days from now, depending on what fights are announced or cards or injuries, things like that that happened.

But obviously you're looking at, let's say, December for your next fight. And again, I'm just throwing Pory out there is the most obvious choice because, again, he's the guy who's out there who's available. So just hypothetically if that happens. Now, when Charles beat Gachey and started calling for Connor McGregor, I was one of the only people who said, good, do it. If you want McGregor and you want the payday, go for it. Like, I'm never going to fault you for going on getting paid for your family.

because this is a business at the end of the day. You are providing. You have a wife and kids to provide for. He has kids to provide for. I'm never going to fault anyone for going for the payday. We know Connor is a massive payday. Now, of course, we know that fight's not going to happen. He's going to fight Islam.

But if everything goes well and you win in December and you beat Dustin Porre. What would mean more to you? Would it be the Connor fight, which would be a life-changing, you know, massive payday, pay-per-view headliner, all those kind of things? Or is the title always going to trump that for you in terms of, in terms of if you have that option, title versus Connor, what's going to mean more to Michael Chandler?

I think the title, you know, and that's, you know, obviously that's not taking a fight of Connor, but Connor is the biggest fight ever. Connor is a legacy type of fight. It's a Hall of Fame kind of fight. It's the fight that everyone remembers, you know, it's the fight,

win, lose, or draw, knockout, or submission or decision. It's a fight that everyone's going to remember. But, you know, holding UFC gold and attaining my goal, reaching my goal of becoming the number one lightweight on the planet. You know, I've been a champion of Belator, but that didn't mean I was the number one guy. Was I a top 10 guy, a top 15 guy, a top 5 guy?

I've been there, you know, basically my entire career ever since I beat Eddie Alvarez in 2011. I've kind of been in that, that cusp, if you will, or on that cusp. And becoming the number one guy in the world, that's the goal. That's the ultimate goal. And I want that not just for myself, but I want it for my wife, two sons. I want it for my family, my mom and dad, who's made the sacrifices over all those years for me to get here. And I want it for the fans and the people who have supported me since day one that, you know, so I can host it up and say, we did it, you know. And then the Conner

fight after that, you know, that's the, that would be the big one. That would be the big, big one. So, it'll be good. Yeah. It's funny because, I mean, again, assuming everything goes well and you fight and you win in December, Tyler Connor, I mean, Either way, it's not a bad consolation prize, right? If you don't get the title shot for whatever reason, you get Connor, well, that's still a massive fight. And if you don't get Connor, you get the title shot, you get to be champion. So again, it's not a bad place to be.

Yeah, no, for sure. And, you know, hey, if Charles or is a lot, want to get cute and start calling out Connor and looking for the Connor fight, okay, go ahead and take it. You know, go take it and chase the Connor fight. We'll do an interim title, whether it's the next contender, and the next contender at 155 and myself. You know, I think at that point I will have solidified myself as the number one contender when I beat Porriere, if it is Porre.

And then, you know, we'll see if those guys continue to defend the belt or if they chase the Connor fight. Yeah. Well, like I said, it's not a bad place to be with those kind of options in front of you. Porre, Connor, title. It's good to be in the Michael Chandler business right now is what I'm saying. It's good, man. It's been a huge blessing.

And obviously, like you said, you know, you don't, you and me go way back. We've done this dozens and dozens and dozens of times over the last 12 years and it's been a lot of fun. And man, I loved my time at Bellatorre. I love the people. I love the fights and the competition. But it's just so much bigger now. So much, I feel like I'm so close to attaining and reaching the goal that I set out for myself. And, you know, the platform is huge. And I love everybody that's on this journey. with me and I truly am living a dream so I'm going to keep on doing it until the wheels fall off. As you say, my friend, see you at the top, right?

See you at the top, baby. That's right. Michael, it is always a pleasure. I know you're a very, very busy guy. I always appreciate you giving me the time. Obviously, look forward to seeing you back in actual later this year. Hopefully next time we talk is when the fight is booked. You got a date and an official opponent.

Enjoy Florida. Please show a little of the family for me. Again, congratulations on another son. Welcome to the Chandler Klan. and thank you, as always for the time. You know I appreciate it. You got it. Thank you, Damon. I appreciate you, man.

See you. Talk soon. Okay, see you. Bye-bye. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. What? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea.

Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won! Feel the fun. Play-O-Jo. will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating.

19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close you, call 1-8665331-2-6000 or visit comexonterio.ca. Unwrap holiday magic at Holtrenfrew with gifts that say I know you.

From festive and cozy fashion to Lux beauty and fragrance sets, our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. It's always great chopping it up with Michael Chandler.

Always a fun interview and always like getting his thoughts on his own career, the entire lightweight division, and everything else going on. I liked his perspective on Islam and Charles Olivera. It is true. It is a very valid point he makes about Islam. That's a great fight.

That might be, for what we have left to come in 2022, that might be my most anticipated fight remaining for the year, because that is a tremendous, tremendous matchup between Islam and Charles Oliver. So many questions will be. be answered in that fight. You know, is Islam as good as we all believe he is?

Is Charles Olivera, you know, approaching potential of being one of the greatest lightweights of all time? I mean, you could argue he's already knocking on that door as it speaks without even beating Islam Makachab. But he goes out there and beats Islam, stops that hype, beats, you know, Khabib's chosen successor, says a lot. And that's a really intriguing fight. I really, really look forward to that one.

There's a lot of fights still to come in 2022 that I'm excited about, including the one that just got announced over the weekend, of course, is, uh, assuming Israel out of Sanya taking on Alex Paheya, that's a fantastic fight. Of course, that's going to headline the Madison Square Garden card in November. And that's a tremendous matchup and a lot of bad blood there, uh,

you know, rematch years in the making. Of course, Pehaya has two wins over Israel and kickboxing. How will it go in boxers? How will it go in MMA? Very much looking forward to that as well. But, uh,

I think Islam versus Charles is the best fight we have announced so far on the book. signs held and delivered and that's coming in October and I'm going to wait for that one. All right, with that being said, another fighter who gets a lot of buzz every time she competes and that is none other than Kayla Harrison. Of course, she's going to be making a return to action in PFL in just a matter of days

over in London, the site of where she won her for her gold medal in the Olympics and judo. So I'm going to talk to her about that, returning to that site, that athletic achievement and what that meant to her. And of course, going back to the scene for the first time in a long time. as she goes over to get one step closer to another million dollar prize in the

PFL. We're going to talk about the money she's making as well, which is a subject matter that, you know, we talk about a lot, fighter pay, and we like to talk about the fighters who aren't getting treated as well as they should, and I think that's a large,

large number of fighters, the majority of fighters, are getting underpaid in the sport. But I love to see somebody like Kayla getting paid her worth, and she's getting paid very well, very handsomely. So we'll talk about that with Kayla as well. So right now here is my interview with PFL champion, Kayla Harrison.

She is the two-time PFL champion. She begins her quest, or I should say continues her quest, for a third PFL championship in August, returning to this site where she became a gold medalist for the first time, which is pretty exciting. Always happy to speak to Kayla Harrison. Kayla, how are you? I'm good. Thank you for having me, as always.

Absolutely. So I was prepping for the interview. And I just kind of realized, because of course, we talked, you know, back in your Olympic days, I was like, oh, this is cool. You're returning to where you won your first gold medal. Are you kind of excited? I know traveling is kind of a pain in the butt for most people, but is it kind of cool to go back over to London? No, for sure. That part's going to be fun.

Obviously, I love London. I have a rich history there personally, and I just love the city in general. So that part will be fun. I mean, traveling is always, you know, I spent. 20 years living out of a suitcase. So I was kind of happy when I didn't have to do that anymore. But it's going to be, I mean, it'll be fun. It's going to be fantastic.

Beyond winning the gold medal, which, of course, is the highlight. What is your best memory of London of that trip to the Olympics? Because it was such a crazy time. I mean, you're the first person to ever win a gold medal in judo for the United States. So the pressure and the expectation that you're dealing with an injury. I mean, all kinds of crazies. What is your biggest memory from that trip beyond the gold medal? metal, of course.

I mean, there's two. There's two. So first, my best friend, Marty Malloy, won a bronze medal at that game. And watching her make her childhood dreams come true, getting to hug her after she won a medal. She fought, she competed before me. So getting to see that, it'd be inspired by that. It was amazing. You know, to share that with her.

It was such an amazing experience. And we did everything together at the games. The second thing that really was so amazing to me was walking in the opening ceremonies. And where we ended up, I was right next to the torch as it was lit. And as it was going up and I felt the heat of the Olympic flame on my face. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm here. Like, this is, we're here. Like, this is it.

this is exactly where you're meant to be and you're doing exactly what you're meant to be doing. And it was really, really cool. It's funny because in this sport in MMA in particular, and you know this, you know, it's always about what have you done for me lately. You know, you're always judged by your last performance, your last fight. But it's kind of crazy when I was thinking about this because, again, we talked, I think the first time we ever spoke was after your second Olympic gold medal. But every time I talk about you, every time I write about you, every time I mention you,

two-time Olympic gold medalist, two-time Olympic gold medalist. but it kind of gets lost in the timeline because of you know things move on we do different things that you were the first americans who ever capture gold in judo and i don't think i know at the time it got talked about a lot but now that we are so prevalent in mixed martial arts and martial arts is so big like that is such an achievement like when you think about all the people that came before you all the people who have come since to be the first like that is a huge thing and i know you don't sit around all day patting yourself on the back and polishing your gold medal but it is pretty freaking awesome Yeah, I know. I mean, to be honest with you, it's still probably the highlight of my athletic career. You know, it's just, there's nothing that can really compare to that. And even though judo is not popular in the United States and it's not as widely broadcast as MMA and whatever, it's not mainstream or anything like that, for me, I think just the entire journey. of it, like how I started. I started when I was a kid growing up, watching the Olympics, wanting to be an Olympic champion, going through what I went through, overcoming that, the people I was with, you know,

the Pedro is my best friend, Marty, Travis, like all of these people who are part of my journey, my whole family was there, my dad who had since passed, like just everything about it was really special. And obviously to be a part of history, to be the first American to ever make it that far, to kind of carry on my coach's legacy. You know, my judo coach, Jimmy Pedro, was a two-time Olympic bronze medalist. He was the most decorated judoka at the time. And I really considered myself a Pedro, you know, and I still do through and through Big Jim. His father is still in my corner and all my fights. So to carry on that legacy, just all of it, it was really special for me. And, and will probably

always be the highlight of my career. Yeah, no, absolutely. It should be. Kayla, of course, we spoke before your last fight. You went out and got, and as I like to say, you did the damn thing. You went out there and had a dominant performance. I know I say this every time we do an interview,

but I know you're your own worst critic. Two minutes and 30 seconds, you pretty much, you know, dominant performance start to finish. But here I go. I always love to ask you, Granger performance for me. How do you feel about that one?

Yeah, you know, I mean, I think that there's always room for improvement. You know, my biggest, my biggest thing for me is like that cage time is invaluable. You know, that time spent inside of a cage is priceless. You can't emulate it no matter how hard you spar, no matter what you do. You can't really emulate that. So I sometimes wish that I would be a little more patient and open up like just, just be a little more patient. You know, I landed a good body kick. Um, we did like one exchange on the feed and then I blast doubled, you know. So obviously it works, you know, and if the, if it ain't broke,

don't fix it. So I know that my skill set is there. I know that everything's going to work. I know that I'm prepared for everything. Even if, even if it didn't work, I know that I'll be able to be just fine. But sometimes I wish that I would just relax a little. You know, it's funny because you always have as a mixed martial artist. You're either evolving or dying, I guess it's the best way to say. You're always drawing. And I know there's going to come a day

where you're going to go in there and land a big overhand left, overhand ride. You're going to knock somebody face first into the dirt. Okay, we know it's coming. But the fact that you do always, you know your strengths

and you know what you're better than than pretty much everybody you're ever going to fight. I remember having this conversation with Ryan Bader years ago when he had a couple big knockouts in a row and suddenly he became this boxer. He started going out there and striking with guys. And then, you know, he faced Glover to Chera and Glover, you know, kind of face-planning him. You know, Anthony Rubble John.

So a couple of fights in a row where he had a couple knockouts. He's like, I forgot to go back to what got me here, my wrestling. I needed to go back to my wrestling. And I just got so enamored with the knockout that I forgot about that. There's going to come a day where you're going to get a knockout, Kayla. We know it's going to happen. You're too talented for it not to happen. But I feel like you're so grounded and you know what you're better than.

Like, Caitlin Young's a great striker. You know, going out there and striking with her is, much more dangerous than taking her down and just mauling her on the ground. It seems like you do understand. Like it seems like you have that perspective. Like you know you'll get a knockout one day, but you're not forcing it. Right. For sure.

I think a lot of credit is due to my coaches as well. You know, like they do their homework. They are, they do a good job of keeping me grounded. I think I had the benefit of coming from such a like an Olympic style background. I made a lot of mistakes already. you know, like I've fallen in love and I thought I was the shit and I've like, you know, been there, done that. Um, so I have the luxury of that experience. And I think my coaches also they keep me grounded, you know, I mean, I make fun of my coach Anderson all the time because

he like, he studies film on every single opponent, like hours, he breaks it down. He has recordings. He has a game plan. And I've had 14 fights now. And every single fight, he comes, okay, Kayla, but striking here. Your striking is here, maybe here. Grappling here. You're grappling here. I think take down. And I'm like, Anderson, I know.

You don't have to tell me. I know what the game plan is. But he's like very, he's like, no, you know, just patience, take your time. You best grappler. And I'm like, I know, I know. but they do a good job of keeping me humble. And, you know, one of these days I am going to land something, but I'm not going to fall in love with it.

I'll tell you that. I love winning. This isn't too much to love anything else. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, when you came into mixed martial arts on day one, we said, you know, Kayla Harrison may be the greatest prospect ever coming to sport, one of the greatest prospects, however you want to word it.

And then you've grown. And you continue to grow, continue to evolve, continue to get better. And then, like, five, six fights in, we're like, wow, we think Kayla Harrison could be really special. Seven, eight fights then, we're like, wow, she's becoming one of the best fighters in the world. Nine, ten, eleven, we're like, okay, you know, now she's becoming like, you know, one of the best pound for pound. You're 14 fights in your career. I'm giving you a little inside baseball knowledge here, Kayla. In our last MMA fighting rankings, we all vote.

I love and hate the rankings. I love the rankings because it's a fun discussion, but I also hate them because I hate them because I hate the politics to go on with rankings when fighters say, oh, I won't fight this guy or girl because they're ranked behind me. I hate that part. In my newest rankings, I have number one and number two pound for pound in the world. I have you, I have Valentina Schochenko, and I have Kayla Harrison. In my opinion, I think you are there now. And I look at, I really did some examination on this.

And I said, listen, I have the utmost respect for, you know, what Amanda Nunes has done in her career. Rose Dombey Yunus. Of course, you know, Amanda Nunes, or, excuse me, Giuliana Pena, all these other fighters. But I look at consistency and dominance. I look at you. Now, to credit, you know, Valentina did have a tough fight. out the last time, but I think she's incredible, and I think everyone's entitled to one not great night at the office.

Of course, you're not always going to be some nights you come in flat. You know, that's just part of the game. But I agree. I agree. I spoke to Randy Couture a couple weeks ago, and I said, where do you put it? And he said, I think it's Valentina and Kayla. Now, I know maybe he's a little biased because he works for PFL, but I said, where do you and Kayla, I know your goal, and my long diatribe here to get to this point, your goal is to

become the best fighter in the world, the best of all time. That's always been your goal. Yes. But when you look at the fighters right now in the world, where do you put yourself? Do you believe you are number one, number two? If you are looking at it right now, where do you put yourself? No, I mean, I don't, I don't consider myself number one or number two. I think that's a huge compliment to me. And I am very humbled by that. I think that I'm getting there. but I tend to agree with you know I tend to agree with the MMA trolls of the world I think that I do have to prove myself a little bit more and I still have I still have something left to prove and I'm just going to keep going out there and doing my job and whoever's in front of me

I'm going to take them out and and I'm just going to keep climbing the mountain and you know I'll get there but I'm not number one or number two yet for sure I don't I mean I personally don't think I think I have the ability to be. I think that I'm ready today to be the best fighter in the world, but I'm not there yet. Well, let me ask you this question, kind of putting you back into making you be cocky again here, Kayla. When you look at it, and I'm not going to mention names. I'm not going to say, like, oh, how do you think you do that? Let's take Valentina out of the conversation, because she's a flyweight.

That's not realistically a fight. But when you look at the fighters who could realistically ever fight you at 145, 155, does anyone be Kayla Harrison right now? Let me ask that question. I don't think so personally. You know, I work too hard. I have the best staff, coaching staff, team support system. I think that I'm constantly getting better.

I love what I do. I'm very passionate about it. My life is, you know, what is that famous thing? A happy fighter is a dangerous fighter. I don't think that anything can happen. That's why you have fights. Of course, anything can happen. But I make sure that I train hard enough so that on my worst day, I'm still the best in the world.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know people love, this is always the argument with you, Kayla. People always love to say, well, level of competition. Level of competition. I brought receipts, Kayla. I just so you know, I brought receipts. I want to read you three records, okay?

Three records. 15 and 9, 8 and 5, 12, 9 and 1. Now, do you know what those numbers are? I'm assuming you don't, but I'm just glad you don't know. That's the win-loss record of Chris Cyborg's last three wins. Now, that's not a knock on Chris and that's not a knock-on-or level of competition. I think some of those fighters are very good. But when people say level of competition, we get so lost in that, are we just saying not in the UFC?

Is that really what we're saying? It's not level of competition. It's like you're not in the UFC. Right. No, I mean, I struggle with this a lot, you know, internally. I feel like people, people, I get a lot of negative feedback. And I guess you could call it H and trolls, you know, that I'm a can crusher. Like, that's like a very repetitive thing in my life.

Oh, you're a can crusher. You're a can crusher. And sometimes the people that tweet, like, it's really actually funny. They find these memes and gifts of people like stomping on cans. And it's kind of funny. But you're right. I mean, even if you go to the UFC, right, and you look at some of the girls' records in the UFC, it's not, we're not talking like these absolute monsters, you know, we're not talking like people.

I don't know. I honestly, to be quite frank with you, like Larissa Pacheco, I've beaten her twice. I think she would beat Cyborg right now. I think she might give Amanda a hard time right now. And that's not a knock on them, but it's like you can't judge a level of competition. Like we're all in different, we're all in different promotions. Like if you really like, let's fuck around and find out. Like let's put us all together.

Let's find out. You know, I'm not afraid to find out. Like that's, I get, I get, I get frustrated by that. I do get frustrated by the knocks on competition because it's not really a knock on me. It's a knock on them. Like show some respects. These women work hard. They, you know, they go in there and they put it on the line, you know.

None of these people who have anything to say do that. None of these people who talk shit online do that. So for me, that's frustrating. But I'm just going to keep, I'm just going to keep doing my thing. I'm just going to keep chipping away, you know? Yeah. Well, I say that and I say that because, you know, when I look at, again, and this is, I'm not trying to knock like what they're,

like I think Amanda Nunes is incredible. I have no doubt of what she's done. But, you know, when you look at what she's done, like she has the huge knock of her criticize. And I listen, I have a ton of respect for Megan Anderson. and Felicia Spencer and somebody had to fight it. But it's not like their records were so astronomical. They were like, oh, my God.

Megan Anderson was the greatest fire in the way. No, I agree. It's not like you have this like, see, this is why a fight between me and one of them would be so great, right? Because you would have this like seasoned, veteran, like, bonafide goat, right? They're goats. They're goats of the game. They are, they've been legends of the sport.

They're pioneers. They've changed the game. And they've been top dogs for a long time now. And then you have like a young, I mean, I'm not really that young, but, you know, up and coming hungry. Like, I would say that I'm a dominant fighter. I would say that I'm dominant. You know, I've had three, what, three decisions my entire four?

Three decisions? I don't know. My win rate, my finish rate is pretty high and I'm undefeated and I'm dominant. So that is what makes exciting fights. Like, is she really that good or are they really that good? Who's really that good? So, you know, hopefully we'll find out someday. I think people make a lot of,

I think people make a lot of noise without doing their own research because I saw this is, I say this because I respect, you know, I respect journalists. I was doing a little bit of research before we spoke. And I saw there was a New York Times article about you from your last wind that said Kayla Harrison walks through a beats or some version of that, you know, terminology substitute fighter. And I bug me because I'm like,

Caitlin Young's not just a substitute fighter. Caitlin Young is a pioneer. Like she's a legend of, you know, she's, and that to me right there, that to me is like what I think we, we just like, again, that right there, a substitute fighter. It's not just a substitute fighter. It's not just a substitute fighter. It's Caitlin Young. She's been around forever. She's a icon of a pioneer sport.

You know, she literally, like, you can say whatever you want about her record, but it's because she never said no to a fight, you know, like she would fight. She's a same, like she's a fighter. She goes in there and she fought. She fought me on two. weeks notice. Like she's a, she's a, she's down. She's a fucking fighter. And I have so much respect for her and everything she's done for the sport. And like, yeah, no, I agree. That stuff pisses me off. And I also think like, I just, I don't, you're going to get me on my soapbox here. You done messy. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, well, it, it pisses me off too, Kayla. That's what I'm saying. That's why I bring it up,

because it irritates me. It irritates me too, damn it. It irritates. It irritates. It irritates. It irritates. It's me too. And you look at the four people in the playoffs this year. Obviously, Martina Jundrov is your next opponent. You look at what Larissa Pacheco's that I don't want to, again, I don't want to make it seem like I'm looking past anybody because I'm certainly not. But I think a fight between you and Larissa and the finals is a big deal. Larissa's look like a killer. I know there's maybe, I won't say bad blood, but I know that she likes to raise the animosity a little bit because she wants that third fight.

I get it. She lost you twice. But that to me, like I'm not. I'm not insulting any of the other big fights out there, but I think you and Larissa has got to be, what, top two or three women's fights you could put on the sport right now? I mean, am I wrong? I mean, it doesn't excite me just because I've been there, done that twice.

I mean, I've shared the cage with her for eight rounds. She didn't really have an answer. And I get it. She's made improvements, so have I. And she has to talk shit, because, like, what is she going to do, talk about, like, what is she, what can she say? She lost to me twice, like, whoa, what else is there to, you know, I don't know. I just think, yeah, good for her, you know, I'm excited for the season.

I'm excited to continue to progress. And, you know, like I said, it doesn't matter who it is. I hope she makes weight. I hope she does everything, you know, she does her duty. shows up. I hope other girls do. I think we'll see. We'll see what happens.

One of the things we love to talk about when we talk about your career is like, you know, the accomplishments. But recently, and we don't get access to it as much anymore, which kind of bums me out because I do believe we need more transparency in this sport, not less, but we did get the salaries from the PFL and the Atlanta cards. And we saw the Anthony Pett.

Now, this is disclosed money. This isn't total money. This is what we, what's on the contract at the hand of the commissioner. Yeah. Anthony Dupedis was making $750,000, which is awesome. And you made $500,000. Now, I'm not going to ask you to confirm, although you can confirm, feel free.

But I have learned through sources that Kayla Harrison is actually making around a million dollars of fight in the PFL. Now, I put out a tweet about it the other day, and I said, before you ever criticize Kayla Harrison about anything else, realize she's already one of the highest paid fighters in the sport. And if she is making what I'm,

I have, what I 100% believe I'm correct in what you're making, you are already one of the high, like you are making more than 98% of the UFC fighters. And that's outside of maybe Connor and maybe Adasanya. I mean, I'm throwing out a couple, maybe, you know, like in terms of those games, maybe like that. We saw, I mean, a big part of Francis and God was biggest argument right now is he got paid whatever it was, like $500,000 to fight the UFC. Yeah. I know your goal is to be the best ever.

I know that. and know that's the end goal. But if you're making what I report you're making, and I believe I'm correct, uh, how, how can anyone, how can anyone fault you for what you're doing in there?

Because like, and credit to the PFL, good for them. They're paying you that kind of money. You absolutely deserve it. But again, there's, there's,

what, two, three fighters maybe in the world making that much or more? Well, I mean, I think that fighter pay is an issue. I think that fighters deserve to get paid more. and I do believe that it's in my contract.

I'm really not supposed to discuss what I get paid. So use your sources because I'm not going to discuss it for now because I'm under contract. But I think that people should, I think that fighters should talk. I think the fighters should disclose what they get paid. I think that fighters should, you know, this is a business, but I am also a business. And every single fighter is their own business. and in order for a business to be successful, you have to know your worse. So, and you have to have a real, a genuine product.

And I believe in me. I believe in my product. I believe in my abilities. And that is why I get paid, what I get paid. And that's why the PFO also puts value on my services. Because I show up and no matter what's going on in my life, no matter what, if the day ends in why, then Kayla Harrison is coming to fuck people. up, you know? And that's, that's, that's why I get paid the big bucks. Yeah, we get lost in all

these other conversations. We talked earlier about, you know, level of competition, all these kind of things. But the other day, this is a business. You are there to provide for your children. And I know, listen, I, I agree. I would love to see you fight Amanda one day. I would love to see you fight Chris Seibor, but I joke, this is months ago when you were going through contracting. And I said, if Kayla Harrison goes back to the PFO where their parent or whatever, they're paying her. And I can see right now, like, I can see in a room, like, I'm joking, but like Dana White comes in and says, listen, we really want you to come here. We'll make the Amanda Neanis fight. Here's 100K and 100K.

And I'm like, I just, I see those kind of things happen all the time. Like, I get, I understand the hoopla that goes around assigned the O.C. But you are probably one of the, I'll just say top five high, am I wrong in thinking top five highest paid fighters to sport? That says a lot. That says a lot. Yeah. No, I mean, I think that obviously my Olympic background, helps a lot. You know, I think too last year I did a really good job of making a statement, you know, four fights, all finishes. I talked a little bit of shit on the mic. I let people see some of my personality. I treated myself as the business last year and it paid off.

And I also think that, I mean, I believe that I can do it all. I believe that I can be the greatest of all time and I can stay true to myself and I can get paid a shit load of money. I think I can, I have the, I have faith in myself and my purpose that I'm going to be able to get it done and do it my way. Yeah, absolutely. Not lose my soul in the process, you know, so this business will chew you up and spit you out. You got to be ready to fight back sometimes, not just inside the cage, you know? So. Yeah. Well, that's, says a lot because, I mean, when you think about a 14 fights in your career,

you know, all the things you've done to already be one of the five highest paid fighters in sport, you really, and I know again, I'm sitting here like, you're praising you, but do you realize how big that is? Like, you really tell me, like, when you think about what a lot of, like, I mean, yeah, like, when the check hits the bank account, I'm always like,

I just like, I'm like, I scratched my head and I'm like, I think about 16-year-old me, you know, I had, I moved to Boston with 200, dollars in an Olympic dream and I was a car wreck and I just I didn't even have a car I didn't have I mean I think about my life I think about what a lot of people sacrificed for me in order to make my dreams come true in order for me to be where I am I think about um I think about those hard nights

where I was like sneaking in my teammates cupboards to have their food because I had no money and I think about all those trips overseas where I was broke. And I mean, I just, you know, it's been a very long journey to get to where I am. And people don't see that. They don't see the dark days. They don't see the, you know, they don't see the struggle. They only see you shine under the lights. You know, they only see the brightest moments of your life and the highlights.

And I think even on social media, we always try and just show the great moments and the happy and the this and the that. And that's not real, you know. I have struggled. I struggled financially for a long time. And now, like, I don't. And it's a great blessing to me. It's to have financial security is basically I bought my freedom, you know.

I worked my ass off for my own freedom. now I can do what I want. Now I can say, you know, basically fuck you. Not enough. Like if you don't know my worth, then that's okay. I walk away, you know? Like I bought my freedom. I worked my ass off for it.

I have financial abundance. And like I know that that is God blessing me in so many ways. And I also know that it as part of that, I get to give back, you know. I mean, so many people, Damon helped me. So many people, I could list, I could list, oh, God, the list could go forever. And one thing I wanted to do is pay it forward. So, you know, if there's a struggling fighter at the gym, if my foundation, if there's, you know, I mean, I know maybe it's silly, but I always give money to homeless people.

Like, my job is to pay it forward now. Obviously, I have to take care of my family. You know, charity starts at home. You've got to take care of yours. But I plan on using all this money to do good, you know, and I'm happy. Life is good, you know, life is good. We have a terrible tendency in this sport to tear people down. It's an awful thing.

And it's really, it is tragic that that's what we're built into. And I get it. That's what gets the clicks. That's what gets the headlines. That's what gets people interested. But I like building people up. And I think what you're doing is amazing. And like I said, when I saw, when I learned.

What you were making from my sources, I said, that's awesome. Like, we should be, like, as I said, don't criticize Kayla Harrison because she's making more than 98% of the fighters in the sport right now. You should be 100% happy about that. Now, last thing, Kayla, now I know you're not, like, we talked before and you told me, like, your dream one day is to buy a piece of property out in the middle of nowhere and just kind of, like, separate yourself from the world outside of, like, training and things like that. Now, you have two kids. I'm sure that they are 100% the priority. But with everything you've done, and listen, you know, you've done well financially. Has there been one frivolous purchase?

Have you got to bought one thing for yourself and said, you know what? I didn't need this. I don't need this, but I'm buying it. See, the fact that you have to think about it tells me you probably haven't. I mean, oh, no, no, this is okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, I got one, I got one. I got one. I buy really expensive hair conditioner. Someone bought me this, like ridiculously, like luxury.

It's called gold lust. I don't even know what the brand is, but someone bought it for me for my birthday one year. Because I trained so much, I have dry hair. It's like a struggle, whatever. Florida. Anyways, someone bought it for me as a gift, and I became obsessed with it.

But then I went to go buy more, and I saw how much it cost. And I was like, are you getting me? I buy like the target, you know, herbal essence, like 399 hair conditioner. That's probably why my hair was a mess. So I sucked it up and I bought, I buy that, I buy that conditioner.

That's my luxury. See, that says a lot right there because a lot of people are like, ah, you know, I bought another house. I bought a car. I bought like a luxury car. No, I bought hair conditioner. I drive forward. I haven't bought a new house yet.

I'm looking. We're looking, but it's not, we haven't found it yet. But, you know, I have hair conditioner. And it's expensive. I'm always like, this is, this is a crime. It's, if there's a higher roots coming out in you, Kayla, because I'm like when I see it I'm like I'm like come on now I can't justify spending that much money on something you know I'm like one of those couponters like I like go to store

all that means all that means is they have no idea that I'm a millionaire and they're like this girl takes 17 hours to check out because she's got a coupon for everything but once you've been broke you always have that mentality that's 100% all that means is when you finally do retire one day you're going to live comfortably Kayla that's all it means you were going to no I'm not even allowed to touch big gym like I'm not even allowed to touch my money I wanted to buy I found a house that I really liked five acres

I was like oh wow like this is it and he was like are you stupid you're not going to buy it right now you need to make the money and then you can buy it and I was like oh oh at least you had the people around saying that right somebody was like go spend it go spend everything I don't have any yes men in my life

that's for sure. They keep it real with me. I love it. Kayla, it is always a pleasure. I know I said this to you when I spoke before the fight and I'll say it again now and I really do mean. I know you don't do a ton of media and I appreciate that. You always give me the time though and I do appreciate that and safe travels to London and best luck in the fight.

And thank you as always for the time. No, it's always my pleasure. We have great conversations. I really appreciate you and the platform you give me. So thank you. All right, Kayla. We'll talk soon, okay? All right. Sounds good. All right, bye. A big thank you to Kayla Harrison for always taking time for me. As I say during our interview,

she doesn't have to do a lot of interviews. She's enough of a star now to where she can kind of pick and choose to people she talks to. She always talks to me, and I always appreciate that. So always good to have her on and have a chat with Kayla Harrison with all she's got going on in her life and her career. And I cannot wait to see her back in action in a matter of days of the PFL in London. With that being said, we're going to get out of here.

I want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes in each. every week to the fighter versus the writer. A big thank you also, of course, to Michael Chandler for doing the show with me this week. You probably heard it in that interview. I was feeling it in that one. That was when I was writing a thick of COVID when I did that interview with Michael Chandler.

So if you're wondering why my voice sounds so bad in that interview, that's why. But thankfully, I'm better now coming on the other side of that. It is no joke, let me tell you, but feeling better. So hopefully be 100% recovered by the next week's show when we do that one. Again, I want to say a big thank you to both Michael Chandler and to Kayla Harrison for coming

on the show. We'll be back next week with another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you then. Podcast Network.