MMA Fighting - Fighter vs Writer: Miesha Tate Gunning for Another Title Shot, Addresses Potential Fights Against Julianna Pena or Kayla Harrison

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Miesha Tate drops by to preview her upcoming return to action at UFC Des Moines, her plans to make one final run at a UFC title and how she would approach a potential fight against a friend in Julianna Pena or a possible showdown with Kayla Harrison plus much more. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. She is a legend of the game, a former champion across multiple divisions, and of course a future UFC Hall of Fame. But on May 3rd, she makes her return to action against Yana Santos. UFC Des Moines, very interesting card coming together for that. It is always my great pleasure to speak to Misha. Tate, Misha, how are you?

Hey, I'm here at the U.C. Performance Institute. I just did some scanning of my body to tell me, you know, all the goods, the breakdown. How's my metabolism firing so far, looking good? Then I get a little sauna session in, and now I'm here chatting with you. I love it. Well, I appreciate it as always. Obviously, as I mentioned, fight is coming up in May, taking on Yana Santos. Can I ask because I didn't realize, like, obviously, I remember the fight with Julia Avila

when you got that nasty net crank. I didn't realize it had been over a year. Like I didn't, the time didn't. So what was this last year like? Was this dealing with injuries? Like, what was the time off for you? Yeah, it was both. I had some injuries that just like when I'd get over one,

then I was like, get another one. I was like, I'm just trying to keep the wheels from falling off, really. But I am great now. I feel really good. You know, and then obviously I just have a lot more things to balance. I mean, that's just the honest truth of it. I have a lot of priorities in life. And when I prioritize a training camp, a lot of things have to get put on the back burner.

You know, that includes like being a parent and all the other, you know, entrepreneurial things that I'm, like, reaching my hands into. It all has to kind of shut down and I have to be able to dedicate a really solid amount of time to preparing for a fight. So trying to get my life in order after, you know, the last fight has just been a little challenging. more challenging than I would have liked for it to be, but we're making it happen. Was there was there was there was there a hope to get a fight sooner? Because I know sometimes you can call the EOS and say, hey, I'm ready to go and you still have to wait several months. Because it seemed like when you announced your fight, you were like, I'm so ready to go. I think it was like eight weeks before that.

So like was there a hope to fight sooner or was this just the timing of it all? This just ended up being the timing of it all. I feel like the UFC has been great to me. You know, that is not one of my complaints if I were ever to. say anything about DOC, it wouldn't be about making me wait for fights. So, you know, they've been great in that department. And this was really just when the stars were aligning for me to be able to make this happen. And, you know, fortunately, Yana was like, yes, she was all down for it. I think she had been waiting for a fight. So it was good. I just, I actually kind of like slid into her

DMs and was like, let's make this happen. And she was like, I'm all for it. I love it. Now, obviously, Yanna's an incredible opponent, so I don't want to sound like I'm disrespecting her in any way. But did I hear that the original plan or what you were hoping for was the Holly Holme rematch? I think I heard that on maybe on Sirius XM when you were doing an interview. Was that the original hope to do that rematch with Holly for this fight? Yeah, that was what I originally had my heart set on. It's what I would have liked to have happened. And just unfortunately missed the window on it.

Holly, I think, was already out of the UFC at the time that I reached out to her. And she wanted to make it happen. But I think it was just too far down the line, you know, and I don't want to speak for either party. But unfortunately, it wasn't something her or I were able to push hard enough for and make happen. Yeah. Now, you can't control anyone else's career. Certainly, you've done very well for yourself. But can I ask, were you surprised to hear that?

that Holly, like, asked for her release? Because I think that caught everyone off guard. Like, I heard about it, and I reached out to her manager. I was like, is that true? Like, she asked for a release? And I guess she did. I guess she signed with GFL. I like Holly.

Holly's an awesome person, but I was surprised because obviously she's been such a stalwart of the UFC for so many years. Were you taken back by that part? But now that the fight didn't have it, but that she actually asked for her release. I feel like Holly probably asked for her release only because, it's kind of the position that she was put into. So that's how I feel. Of course, I am not, you know, her manager or teammate.

We don't talk on a regular basis. So, you know, I don't want to like, I don't want to say too much, you know. I just feel like that's kind of my perception of it is that it ended up being what was best for her, but that was based on circumstances, you know, that otherwise. maybe it would have been a different outcome. I know that we both really wanted to fight each other. We both did. But it was kind of one of those things that when I asked the UFC about it,

it was like, well, you know, how the only way that's going to happen is outside this organization. And at that point, I didn't know if Holly had asked for her release. You know, it seemed like she was willing to do one more go with me. But, you know, how we uncross all those wires? I'm not exactly sure. In whatever case, it didn't end up working out. It's a bummer, but, you know, I did, I do want to still fight for the UFC. I do want that to happen.

So I wasn't looking to go outside the UFC in order to make that matchup happen, at least not at this point. Yeah. Now, I know you said when this fight got announced, you said that you are mashing, pedal down, and you're going full bore into this, and you want to stay busy. So obviously, listen, all you got to worry about right now is May 3, Yonnas Santos. But what, like, what does an ideal 20-25, maybe even going into 2020? 26 looked like for Misha Tate now that you're back.

Now obviously you can't predict injuries. You got kids. I mean, there's a lot going on in your life. And obviously you mentioned you got things going on business-wise outside the UFC. But what does an ideal year look like for you now that you're back? And I think the pros you use is like, you know, bashing the pedal down. You're ready to go, go, go. Yeah.

You know, an ideal year is win this fight, win another fight and be calling for a title shot. So I want that turnover as quickly as possible because I feel like I'm here for a good time, not for a long time. So I'm trying to make it happen in this year. And we'll see what happens. This is kind of my year, I feel like, to either make it happen or not. Listen, you are obviously willing to earn it, however you want to say earn it. But obviously, you are at a little different position than the average bantan weight because you are alleged of the story. sport. You are a former champion. We see it.

It's just this past weekend. Justin Gachie. He goes out, has that tough fight with Max Holloway loses, comes back, has a great fight with Raphael Fiziv wins. And now there's a real world where people are like, yeah, we could see him fighting for a title. Like, that's just who he is. We love Justin Gachis, that guy. Dustin Poyer, same thing. You know, he lost to Justin, comes back, beats Benoit St. Denis. Benoit wasn't a highly ranked guy, but timing worked out. He got is Lamachachev. I certainly understand you're not trying to jump the line or anything like that. But do you see there is a real world where you get a title shot after just,

you know, another win or two, because you're Misha Tate and you've accomplished a lot. And I think you're very much in that Dustiporia Justin Gachie, you know, bucket, however you want to say it, where you're always going to be in that race. And because of who you are, I don't think anyone would really complain about it. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you, Matt. I appreciate that. Yes. I, I mean, if I go out there the way that I'm feeling right now and do what I think that I'm capable of what I believe I can do, then, you know, don't be surprised if I'm calling for a title shot after this fight. I know there are women who have longer strings of wins together than I would at that point. But I think there is a lot that you take into account when you consider

who you want fighting for a title. Now, I think that, you know, it would be interesting, obviously, to see as well, like, who comes out victorious in the next title fight. I'm I would assume that would be Pena versus Harris, Kayla Harris. But, you know, I have desperately wanted to show how much better I can do now against a judoka than ever. Because, you know, I did lose those first two matches to Rhonda. And I just, I didn't understand it. And I have an entirely different coaching staff now. I have people who really can mimic someone who has a,

judo background when at that time when i was you know facing ronda um it was like impossible to find women who were high level in judo but also okay with me punching them in the face as i'm trying to you know knock it thrown like it just it it just really i couldn't find it um so you know i did train with some men but you know then men weren't as slick as ronda they were a lot more about muscling things and so spent um since that moment in time trying to be much better at that and I feel like I finally have the tools so at any point even if it's not um for a title fight you know I do think it would be great to fight Kayla Harrison um so you know I'm excited to see what happens between those two and yeah I might just call for it Damon I think I think I think it's

Okay. I think I've heard that. I totally agree. Now, can I ask because you mentioned Kayla, and I'll get to her in a second, but obviously everyone knows you do have a very long history with Giuliani. You guys came up together. You coached her, your friends. Would there be any awkwardness there? Would she understand, like, if you call for a title shot and she's the champion,

like, would you be okay with Julian? Would that be a scenario that you would not want, or would you be okay with that? For both to be true. I ideally don't want to. have to fight Julie for a title because we are friends and we have a long history and I have so much respect and love for her. She's done so much for me early on in my career. She was there. She was a body. She was always game. I'm so grateful for the contributions that Julie made to my career. So like I wanted to win in the matchup with Kayla. But I also want to fight for a title

fight and I don't want to fight Julie. So it's like either way, it's not going to work out. exactly how I would love for it to. So I'm just going to leave it in the fate of, you know, God and the universe of whatever happens. Now, if I call for a title, I don't have a champion. And so I would have you guys agreed that would never be each other. And I was like, look, I will never hold that away from you. Like, I will never bring you away or be like, hey, you can't have a shot at my, at my belt because it's the belt. It's it's it's the dream. It is not personal. So I would hope that she would

have that same understanding that this is not personal. This is this friendship aside. This is just dreams and at, you know, aspirations and whatnot. But you know, would I fight Julie for a title? Yes, I would. If that's what it comes down to, then I will. So I know this is probably even a tougher question to answer, Misha, but I'm going to ask it anyways because it looks like it is going to be Giuliana and Kayla sometime in the near future. Kayla, came in, guns blazing takes out Holly, a little tougher fight in her second fight, but still went out there and got the win.

Giuliana, of course, she's been around forever, fought everybody, and of course getting off that very close, but a win over Raquel Pennington to get the title back. Can I ask her opinion on that fight? Because I think there's a, it's a really interesting matchup because Juliana's wrestling and striking against Kayla's judo, and

obviously she's a very big Bantaweight. I know you talked about her even getting to Bantaway, which has not been easy. I know that. So I'm curious, like, You don't necessarily have to give me a pick, but how do you see that fight playing out? Oh, man. I always think Julie is so much better than people give her credit for. Because it's easy when you're, you know, the armchair expert and you're sitting on the sideline and you don't know the kind of power that she puts behind her strikes.

You don't know the kind of tenacity and resiliency that that woman has and the things that she does well. she looks awkward doing them sometimes but that's even harder than once you're standing in front of somebody and they're so unorthodox they just do everything differently but Julie's so framed with her striking so yes it's not snappy but when you get hit by her it's unlike most of the women in the division it's not cute it's not like a pink bunny rabbit it is like a Mack truck just blowing through your body I don't know how else to explain it but she's incredible. And I think that is where it could really catch Kayla off guard. Kayla has an incredible skill set. We cannot deny the woman. She should be exactly where she's at. And, you know, she's, she's, she's, she's got a great skill set. But if you were talking about, like, a full on fist fight and slugging it out and who would, who would shy away or break first when you're talking about, just those exchanges, I know it's not Julie. So if Kayla can get a hold of Julie and get her down,

you know, she's always got a path to victory in that. But do I think she'll win on the feet? No, I don't think so at all. And do I think on the ground that she's going to have an easy time of Julie, even if she gets her there? Absolutely not. Which I do think she will get Julie there. I mean, she's just too good.

She's too, you know, she's too well-rounded. She's got great, you know, she'll get. get Julie down. But don't be surprised if Julie gets on top of her, and that could be a nightmare for Kayla. Julie has great reversals from the bottom. So she's scrappy and she's tenacious, and there's no amount of damage that will ever even slow Giuliana down. I mean, I think we've already seen that in the fight with Amanda.

It won't even slow her down. Like, you have to absolutely, you know, kill Julie to get a victory. So that's, you know, that's how I look at it. And I know you said, like, it's almost like, you know, damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, because obviously, like, you don't want to fight Juliana, but on the flip side, of course, there's the, you know, if you fight Kayla, I mean, she beat Juliana. And I know Kayla is not Rhonda. You said, but you've wanted a chance to kind of show what you've learned in that judo realm.

And again, I know Kayla is not Rhonda, but would that be the one that, again, let's take Julian out of the picture because I know emotionally it would be a kind of heartbreak of her to lose the title. but would that be the ideal scenario that you'd go up against Kayla for the title and, you know, not necessarily a measure of revenge because she's not Rhonda, but show how much you've learned since the Ronda fights? Yes. Yes, you connected the thoughts very well. That would be because, you know, Kayla is a very revered judoka. She's got, you know, very similar credentials to Ronda.

And, yeah, she's her own fighter. She is her own person. So it wouldn't be as sweet as vindicating. you know, those two losses to Rhonda. However, it'd be a great second, and I would take that. And I would take pride in people saying, you know what? I think Misha was right. Like, she was able to back up what she said, and she did learn a lot about judo,

and she was able to beat Kayla Harrison. And likely, if they ever had that third fight, she'd beat Rhonda, too. Yeah. Can I ask, because I was thinking about this before we talked today, because obviously I mentioned, and I mean this in all serious, And it's like you're easily going to get in the UFC Hall of Fame when your career is actually over. You've accomplished so much, strike force champion, UFC champion. That's already done.

But one thing that I don't think it's talked about enough with your career is your longevity. Because I always tell the story. Like I was at your debut in 2007 at Hook and Shoot in Indiana. I always hold that in very high regard that I was there that night. You've been around. Now, I know you had the break with the retirement, but you've been so active. And I say all the time longevity is absolutely a huge accomplishment in this. sport to stick around and be a champion and you've been a top 10 fighter, literally your entire

career. I know there was an argument. Like I talked to Jim Miller and I know Daniel Cormade said, I don't know that longevity is enough to get a guy like Jim Miller in the Hall of Fame. I was like, how is it not to be what you've done and stick around for 15 years and be in the UFC? And it's kind of meant you mentioned Rhonda, when Rhonda was doing all those interviews last year and talking and kind of, you know, going through her whole thing, I didn't realize

her entire run in the UFC was less than four years. And her entire run from Strikeforce was barely five years. years gone. You've been doing this since 2007. Like, I know you don't sit around pat yourself on the back and look at your Wikipedia page, but you got to be kind of amazed that you've stayed at this level for this long because you know how hard that is? Like, it is impossibly hard to do what you've done. I do know how hard it is. Like I said, I've tried to feel from falling off over here, but, um, but it's so great. And I love the continued challenge and the drive and the determination that keeps me young in my spirit in my mind.

and therefore I feel like it's also keeping my body younger. Now we have so many more tools that I didn't have at the beginning of my career. But, you know, I look at this and I say, sometimes people focus on that they just want to be great. I want to be great for as long as I can be great. I don't just want to be great for a single moment at time. I want that greatness to extend for as long as possible. You know, and really a lot of it boils down to being smart outside the gym.

We all go in the gym and we bust our asses and we work hard. I think where the youth is wasted on the young is when they go out and, you know, drink on the weekends or they, you know, in their offseason, they, you know, which I did when I was younger too. You know, I certainly would go out after fights and I'd have drinks and I don't do any of that anymore. I'm so diligent in everything that I do. I'd maximize all of my effort into, you know, keeping myself in that prime position, keeping myself in the top 10. and it means a lot to me. And I don't want to walk away from this sport, worse for wear. Obviously, that is a risk you take every single time.

But I mean, throw my kids into the equation. They're not the reason why I do this. I do this for myself. But they are certainly a factor that I consider every time that I put my safety on the line. I want to be able to carry my children when I step out of that octagon. I don't want to take any extra risks in there. You know, it's like I am going to be a savage. and a killer and it's been a great switch of mind for me to really realize and know exactly what I want out of all those moments.

And that just comes with experience. I don't know how else to infuse that into someone else. You know, it's been a lot of trial and error because I went down to 125. And, you know, that was on a prompting of the UFC because I am usually a bit on the smaller side for Bantamweight. But I like to stay ready. I just don't balloon up that much. between fights. Some fighters do. Some bantam whites get up to 180 between five. I'm like, why? I'd rather just stay small and ready. So anyways, all of that being into consideration, there's many factors that go

into longevity and continued best version of self. And it's an evolutionary process. So I'm continuing to expand on it. And I think that's the point of all of this, right? It's like not the destination, but it's the journey. And I'm still here for it. I'm loving every moment of it. And I'm trying to make the most out of this damn thing we call life. Absolutely.

And like I said, when I say that about Ron, I'm not taking a shot hurt necessarily. It's just wild to think, like how quick and gone she was. And you've been doing this, like you've lived through generations of this division.

Like you were there in the very early stages. And then, of course, in Strike Force, when that got going, and you were there literally day one. I remember when we heard that the UFC was bringing women in, I think you were my first call.

I called you. I was like, hey, did you hear this? And we talked about it. It's wild to think, like, you've lived through all these generations. And now here we are in 2025, about to fight Yana Santos, May 3rd, a win, as we said, we know this sport works. You could be right there for a title shot this year. It's kind of wild, though, right, to think about all the different generations you've lived

or all the fighters who have come and gone, you've fought and beaten, and who are no longer around. And here you are still doing the damn thing. Yes, I am the end of an era, if you think about it. I'm really the last one standing of that initial wave that came over into the UFC. And then if you want to even dive deeper than that, you know, I was the longest signed female in Strike Force as well. So really almost from the starting point of women getting into Strike Force, you know, I was on the heels of that. But even the longevity through Strike Force from when I got signed until when it got absorbed in the UFC, I was there.

And I look at this with incredible gratitude. I don't look at this with, you know, an arrogance or that I deserve anything more for doing that. I'm just grateful. I am so grateful that I get to do this. I'm still here. I still get to do what I love because many people have to cut it short. Maybe they would have liked to do this longer. And, you know, they're just not able to.

So I don't know. I'm counting my blessings. And since you've been back. obviously there was a little bit of a controversial decision in the one fight and I'm not listen I'm not going to discount your flyweight move but I've heard you talk very openly about how brutal that was on your body and it took you a year basically to get back from that so I'm not even I don't want to take away Lauren Murphy I'm just saying like I'm kind of discounting that from the record because that was such a weird weird fight then you come back and you put that nasty neck crank on Julia Avala she obviously is a very very good fighter so can we expect that same kind of fire that same kind of thunder that same kind of performance going against Gianna San Because Jan is a very good fighter. Obviously, she's coming off a winner of her own right. She's fought a lot of good fighters. But it felt like when we saw you against Julia, it felt like that was a different

Misha Tate. Like that was a very hungry. I would say angry. They're saying the wrong words of angry. But you were out there to prove a point. Is that the same kind of fire you're going into this fight with? Yeah, the ambition in that fight, I knew exactly what I wanted. And I will never, I never want to let go.

of that again it was very clear to me and I'll tell you that there have been other fights and experiences when I have not really been present in the fight I was like an out-of-body experience I'll draw back to my retirement fight when I fought Raquel that was just such a weird experience to be in a full-on fist fight and also like not be there like it was it was so strange and that's why I retired because I'm like I never want to feel like that again um and I feel like I dabbled in that when I went down to 125. I also kind of had this weird experience where I wasn't totally there. And I was like, okay, well, I'm going to, I think that was more of the weight than anything else.

I had to pull so much muscle off of my body. I feel like I looked like just a bag of muscle and bones. Like, it was terrible. And I think now I realize exactly how to get the best version of myself. I know how to hone in. And it took me a long time to figure that out. And even though I have become a world champion in Strike Force and become a world champion in the UFC, I was not my best versions in any of those.

And my losses and my wins, no, I just didn't have it figured out. I was good enough in spite of all of the bullshit that was going on. Now I have simplified, reduced, and also added in. I'll give Mike a huge shout out here at the UFC Performance Institute. He's a mental coach and he's a cognitive behavioral therapist. And he really helped me line up everything for performance in my mind, which is absolutely my greatest weapon. By far my greatest weapon.

And it's always been my greatest weapon. You know, you look at that fight with Holly. That was all mental. You know, that fifth round, that was a choice. That was a decision. That was a risk I was willing to take. And that fire that was under me in those moments, like I've always had a strong mind. But it was like I didn't have a plan.

So I was just hoping that my toughness would come through. I didn't know how to hone it in and make it great and execute and make myself be present. When you start getting that like disassociation, out of body, bad trauma responses, how do I like bring it back to right here right now? What do I want? I want to take down. What do I want? I want to lay on that right now. What do I want?

I want to win. Like, you know, being able to do that has been changed. It has changed everything for me. And so, you know, Julia really fought the very best Misha Tate that there has ever, ever, ever, ever been, like, hands down. So there is nothing to take away from her in that fight. It's just that nobody else before me ever in my entire career has fought a better version of me. And that's why I think everything you've accomplished and that was your best version. So is it safe to say we're going to see a very.

similar Misha take on May 3rd. Well, that is certainly the plan. I wouldn't be stepping in there again if I didn't believe that I had more to build on. And now that, that was like tasting blood in the water. Like, I don't know how to explain it, but I'm addicted

to this process right now. I am so excited to elaborate on what I finally figured out and all those skills of honing myself in mentally. Physically, I've always been there. I've always been in good shape. I've always worked hard.

I've always done those things. The only thing that changed was my mindset. I didn't hope to be tough enough. I fucking knew I was. And I knew I kept telling myself, you deserve this. You know, like you have worked so hard and you deserve this and you want it

and you know what you want and you know exactly how you're going to do it and you'll never take no for an answer. And that's just the relentlessness that I went into that fight with. So none of that has gone away. If any of that, I feel like I've just continued to build on it. So, I mean, the game plan is to go out there and level up on what I was able to deliver in the Julia Vila fight.

I love it. I love it. Well, Misha, obviously, can't wait to see back in action. I think everyone was excited when this fight got announced. May 3rd, Des Moines, Iowa, you get to do it in front of a crowd again. Thank goodness. Don't get me wrong. I know the apex exists for a reason, but I think you need to fight in front of a crowd.

So I'm glad there's going to be a big crowd there in Des Moines. And, man, I can't wait to see you back in action. Like I said, maybe next time we talk, it'll be title fight. We'll see what happens. But Misha, thank you, as always for the time. You know, I appreciate it. It's always a pleasure to speak to you. Have a great rest of your training camp.

Obviously, best luck in the fight. And I can't wait to talk again soon. All right. Thank you. Podcast Network. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrance sets. Our special selection has something for every style and price point.

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