MMA Fighting - Fighter vs Writer: Reacting to UFC 331, Gable Steveson’s Stunning Loss and What’s Next for Arman Tsarukyan

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the fallout from UFC 331 including Joshua Van’s victory, Arman Tsarukyan with another shutout performance but is a title shot next for him? Plus Gable Steveson suffered a catastrophic loss so what comes next for him? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you. Please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I am Damon Martin. He is J.O.C. legend Matt Brown and Matt. We are coming off a big weekend of, well, fights and championship fights, but also some big announcements coming up. Obviously, over the weekends, Joshua Van defended his title for the second time against Alessandre Pantoja.

looked fantastic, man. That kid's so much fun to watch. 24 years old. Can't wait to see what he's going to be doing it in the future. Armand Sarukkin kind of ruined your plan there. You thought Marie Sier Rufu was going to get him. It didn't work out too well. Armand knocked him off on brutal elbows in the second round,

or first round, excuse me, to kind of solidify his spot. But is they actually going to get a title shot? We'll talk about that. And then, of course, probably the biggest news, which is almost unfortunate to the biggest news, is that Tom Aspinall did officially relinquish his title. He's not going to be a heavyweight title, and the UFC is now moving.

on with Cyril Gahn taking on Josh Hockett at Madison Square Garden along with at a deep fight between Kayla Harris and Amanda Nunes finally being rescheduled. So lots to get to today, Matt. What caused your attention? Oh, and let's not forget, Gable Stevenson, the greatest prospect in history,

got knocked out in 12 seconds in his second fight. So we got lots to talk about. So, Matt, where do you want to start? Yeah, where do you start, man? Well, first off, look, it was a great show, right? like UFC still 30 plus years in, you know, still banging out killer events, man.

And, you know, making it fun to watch. And then, you know, when you have guys like Van coming in, keeping the excitement, I mean, we can talk about all the other fights, right?

But that dude puts on fucking bangers, man. And, you know, and comes out on top. He's talked about himself at the post-fight press conference. He can't keep, you know, taking shots like that, right?

he can't keep getting punched like a I mean he talked about it more along the lines of you know he wants to win more dominantly and things like that but you know I think he understands that that's not going to be a way to win for a very long time and I mean but what a way to inject some fucking fire into that division man you know division that was kind of struggling for a little bit I think they'd even talked about cutting that division and now Joshua van comes in and just fucking making it exciting man and And you got to also give some props to Pantosia, too. Like, what a gladiator.

You know, this guy just keeps coming forward, keeps throwing. You know, had a great game plan, I thought. I mean, Josh Vann is just a squirly little fucker. I mean, it was a great fight from start to finish. And obviously, I think, you know, Joshua Van deserved to win. I thought he won. But, yeah, like, he's a real, you know, he's kind of what that division needs. You know what I mean?

Like, as good as Pantosia was as champion, you know, People just don't get excited about submissions as much as they do about knockouts. Sure. And Joshua Van provides knockouts. He just has that power. He has that range. He has that ability. And, I mean, don't get me wrong.

Pantosia versus Van was an incredible fight. Let me make sure I'm clear about that, Matt. But Joshua Van versus Menel Cop is fucking mayhem. I mean, that is going to be, that might be my most anticipated fight of 20. 27 already. I'm right there with you, man. That, man, is cop going to be next in for the title, you think?

I mean, I guess I haven't really heard anything about that. I mean, I don't know how it's not. I mean, he wins the last fight. He gets the knockout. I mean, knocks out,

you know, knocks out, uh, Kiyo Gior, which just doesn't happen very often, if ever. So I think you got to give it to him. I don't know how it isn't a knock off.

Yeah, okay. Well, I'm here for it because, yeah, like you said, that's a fight, man.

great fight through and through. Again, Van just continues to impress, man. You know, especially after that first round, you know, it looked like Pantosia might have had his number, right? It looked like Pantosia had the right game plan. Everything was kind of going his way. And Van just finding a... Now, we do have to talk about the score cards on that a little bit.

A 50, 45. Yeah, I get... I can see where a lot of the rounds are close and, like, you know, you'd be like, okay but particularly they got first round like how do you give that to josh van like what what did you what did you see there that you could possibly give to josh van so you know just another example unfortunately well fortunately it ended up you know with the right person winning at least right never mind the score cards whatever they ended up being the right person got his hand raised in the end um but man i mean i think there's people that that could make a case for pantosia of winning

that fight right and yeah i you know i don't think it's a great case right but i think there's a case to be made for pantosia and there's guys over here making 50 45 scorecards like it's fucking ridiculous but yeah it's stupid anyway though going back to what we're talking about look van and cop is a fucking bang and the the problem with those fights man those featherweights like we expect them to be bangers because they're always bangers and like like this is probably why Scott Coker decided to go to featherweights, right, to build his new promotion with the worst name ever. But they always putting on great fights. They don't get the respect that they deserve, in my opinion. When you look at, I don't know, if that

was Alex Pereira and Surreal Gone that put on a fight like Van and Van and Pantosia did yesterday, that's a legendary war for the ages. That's a Hall of Fame fight day one. Right? But it's the two little guys, you're like, this is what they do. They scrap. Yeah. I mean, listen, you know, fly weights are always going to have to kind of battle for respect.

They're doing feather weights, of course, with, you know, says two weight classes up for Scott Coker's promotion. But the little guys always did. Whether you're a small way, you're either featherweight, bane way, whatever. You always got to kind of fight for respect.

Yeah, I guess some of the weights confused sometimes. Yeah, but, um, yeah, I mean, listen, they've been on the show.

And, and they did an incredible job. And Joshua Van, you know, backed up everything he said. he was going to do and he did it. Pantosia is still a great legend, great champion, he's going to bounce back and have some great fights of his own.

But yeah, I mean, come on now. Manel Cop is a sniper, is a nasty knockout striker, and that dude, like him and Van throwing down is like Dream Come True kind of fight. So I'm really looking forward to that whenever they finally do it. And the big question is can Van take those shots from Cop?

Yeah. That's a different guy landing those kind of shots, you know, not take anything from Pantosia, but Pantosia's a grappler, right? I mean, he's an all-around really good fighter, but he's a tough guy, he's a grappler, he throws hard, comes forward.

But there's a difference, man, and taking a shot from Pantosia and taking a shot from a Nel Cop. And Van is there to be hit, right? He does get hit a decent amount. You know, I think his shorter arms probably play a role in that, right? I don't know how tall he's going to be.

compared to Coppso so we'll see how that plays out but yeah it's that's a banger man and van again I think he brought a lot of excitement to his division like I don't know anybody that doesn't want to watch him fight his next fight whoever it is exactly yeah it's like who doesn't who doesn't watch this dude fight yeah in the co-made event of course Armand Saruki and kind of made his point he drilled Maricio rufi with a couple of nasty elbows and knocked him out brutally knocked him out in the first round. Over the past few days, we've heard, you know, Ilius DePore's coming back. Now he's excusing Justin Gae of having, you know, concrete gloves or whatever. He messed with his gloves, which, you know, they've already said like, that didn't happen. Obviously, you know, I mean,

there's no doubt about that Justin, Justin Gagy and Ilya would be a banger again, and I'm sure it would sell a lot of tickets and, you know, people would tune the in. But what do you do now? Armin, I mean, looked incredible. He looked awesome against the striker. He didn't even get a you know, take down really. He just went out there and out, you know, basically busted him up and two elbows, knocked him out. Now, I know Marisa Rufi isn't like, you know, elite of elite. He's not one of the top five guys in the world, but he's up there. He's top 10 at worst. So what do you do now, Matt? Like, in our heads, we've said for the last year and a half, Armin deserved the title shot. He doesn't deserve the title shop. But what do you think the

UFC's going to do? I don't know how you deny Armin and Syruki at this point. I mean, I get where he's went through, you know, messing up the main event the one time. I get where He hasn't always had the most exciting fights. He's had to grind through some wins, a lot of decisions. I don't know how you deny him at this point. I mean, was that 13 in a row now? Am I right on the end? I don't know.

I think it's like 12 out of 13. He had like one loss in there against Matusha Gamrod and everything else has been wins. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how he deny him, man. I mean, this guy's done all the right things. I mean, they're talking on the commentators we're talking about. Like, he's a star now, right? He's went out.

He's not only went out and knocked out Marisa Rufi, which is not no small feat. Wherever you rank Marisa Rufi, you know, you can talk about he's number 10, you know, or whatever he is. He does, that's not a guy you expect to get knocked out, right? Marisa Rufi is an absolute savage. And so I don't know how you deny Armin. He's out there knocking out guys now. He's building his popularity. He's staying active.

He's getting, staying relevant, keeping attention on him all the time, building his star power. He's doing all the right things. Like, I just, I don't know where you can come up with a possible denial here. The only possible reason that you give Ilya a shot, immediate rematch, is you're saying, we just want to sell more tickets. Like, that's literally it. You know, like we think that Ilya is going to sell more tickets. Like, I don't, I can't possibly come up with another reason.

I mean, I don't even know. I mean, I would say that Ilya is probably still more popular. I'm not, I'm not opposed to saying that. But as popular as Armands gotten, I don't think you're that far off. Like, you know. I agree. Yeah. Like, he brought in that, that streamer neon, which I don't know anything about this,

but I know the dude is like an insanely huge, like, you know, appealing star to, like, you know, twins and probably kids around your kid's age. You know what I mean? Like, he's a massive, massive appeal. And Nina Drama is the same kind of thing. Like she draws a massive, she draws a massive crowd. People like her, people like her antics, people like her videos, whatever. Or they don't. Or they don't.

But the point is, like, gets attention. Whether you like or hate it. Like, I'm not going to deny that Ili is probably still more popular. I'm not going to deny that. But I don't think Armand's that far behind where you're like, you know, where the difference is just so dramatic where you're like, well, you know, Ilya's going to sell 10,000, I'll say, Ilya's going to sell 20,000 tickets, and Armand's going to sell like 10 tickets.

Like, it's just not a fair fight. That I would understand, but that's not the case anymore. Armid is a star. And I think on Saturday it made even bigger star. So, like, I think all the excuses you would have to not give Armand that title shot have kind of flown out the window. Yeah, that's my whole point, right? He's done all the right things through and through. He made one mistake.

apparently that was a big mistake right like Dana really did not like that he got injured the day before a main event fight understandable you know title fight understandable what else I don't know what else he could possibly do to get back in the good graces I mean everybody knows who he is now everybody if you didn't respect his fighting skills before you do now I mean like there's literally nothing else he can do Yeah. I mean, like, what, here's my thing. Like, yeah, you can match Armin up against somebody else and it would sell. You could do Justin versus Ilya 2 and, you know, whatever, you know,

and then the co-made man could be Armin versus Patty Pimble. It could be Armin versus, you know, anybody. And it would be a good fight. I get it. But you actually do have a chance for a massive card if you do Justin versus Armin and you do Ilya versus Patty. That would be even bigger because. Massive.

Massive. Because everyone wants to see Ilya fight Patty. Patty wants to fight Italy. They wanted to fight each other for years. Yes, I understand that title's not on the line. But the reality is, like, I'll lose. When did losing not matter anymore, Matt? Like, I'm not saying he's a bad fighter.

He's an incredible fighter. And I think he will hold that title again one day in the future because Justin Gage is 38 years old. He's not going to be around forever. I'llie is going to win that title again. I have no doubt about that in my mind. But when did losing not matter? When did losing, like stop mattering?

Yeah, exactly. And when you talk about Armin, you know, winning should matter. And he keeps winning, right? You know, you put the two together. You know, Ilya lost. Armand just keeps winning and keeps doing all the right things. You got to give it to him. And on that note, I mean, you got to talk about Armin a little bit and those skills.

I mean, look, he got dropped real quickly. you know, kind of a flash knockout by Marisa Rufi. It kind of wasn't looking that great for him. I mean, it wasn't that long of a fight. I think it was like about four and a half minutes or so. But, you know, it didn't look great for Armin, right? Like, Rufi, he's a sniper. Armin wasn't getting the takedowns.

And that's where we kind of thought, like, Armand's real chance was going to be, right? But then he just pulled out the bag of tricks, right? Kept him up against a cage, broke off with an elbow, right? And that is such a phenomenal trait to have where like your game plan, like you got to imagine his, you know, I'm not his camp, but his gameplay was probably take him down, right? Beat him on the ground, submit him, pound him out, whatever it is. You're going to beat him on the ground. And he had to dig a little bit deeper into his bag of tricks. That is a phenomenal skill to have.

And that is a special thing right there. When the plan that you had, there wasn't plan A. I assume. Like his plan was not push him against the fence, try to take him down a bunch of times and fail and throw an elbow knockout. Yeah. So it was like plan B,

maybe even plan C, who knows, right? But it was deeper in that bag of tricks and that you have to commend. 100%. And like I said, Armand has shown improvement every time he's gone out there. You know what I mean?

It's not like you're still, you can't say he's a one-dimensional fighter. He's just a wrestler. is just a grappler. But the thing is, like, you know, when I was talking about, like, with the magnitude of doing a card with those two and doing a card with Ilya and Patty, like those are two, like, think of it, like, you know,

I know, like when Connor came back and his whole debacle happened and you got injured, whatever, what resulted in that was thankfully Patty was the co-made event, and people were, like, going nuts for Patty at that point. He became even more popular and a bigger star. Now, Ilya and Patty is a big final. You can main event that fight anywhere. You can main event that fight against any country, whatever.

And if you're interviewed, once again, go back to the Armand argument. If you want to argue that Armand isn't quite as big of a star as I'llia, I won't argue with that. But Armine and Justin is a great big fight. And then you put Ilya and Patty as a co-main event. I mean, who's not going to watch that? Who is not going to tune into watching? And by the way, just to make a point, like, the UFC's not doing the paperview thing. anymore. Like I think we got to get past that. Like we're so enamored with like, oh, it's going to sell

20,000 or excuse me, like 400,000. No, they're getting the same money whether they sell two, where are two people tune in or eight million people tune in. But you could think about the magnitude of that card. If you do Ilya and Patty and then Armand versus Justin, I mean, who wouldn't watch that? Who wouldn't want to watch that? That's a great, that's a great fight. And that's where you have to bet that it's probably going to be more likely those are two separate cards. It's not necessarily the same card unless they do that, you know, they're talking about Mount Rushmore or whatever this big event is that they're coming up with. Yeah.

Bro, you got a shoe in right there for a home-main-main. Yeah. But I just don't like, going back to my original point about losing, like, Ilya is still a great fighter. He didn't lose that much by losing to Justin Gagey. I mean, that's not a bad loss. But you did lose. You know what I mean?

So like, and by the way, I'm okay with these rematches when they're controversial, when something weird happens, even though I didn't agree with everything that Alex Pereira was complaining about, I would have had as much of a problem with Alex got a rematch with Cyril gone because there were legitimately shots to the back of the head. That really did happen, not egregiously, but it happened.

I can understand that. Or when a decision is just really bad, you know what I mean? Like the 50-45 was really... Yeah, you can understand it. But it's not like there's controversy. Like, there was no controversy. Ilya said no moss. I'm done.

I can't take anymore. I'm cool with that. Win one, just win one. Win one fight beat Patty. Win that one fight and then boom, you're right there in the title shot. I just don't understand how we just forget about that. Like, oh, yeah, we like Ilya and he's a tough guy.

And he's super popular. So yeah, I've been right back in there for the title fight. Well, especially when you come into a new division too, right? Because that was his first fight at 55. He's not like he's proven at 55. Yeah, his second. He beat Charles Oliver. Yeah, you're right.

Second fight. But he's still new to the division. So, and look, I'm not, I personally would not be anti-Iliya Gagey rematch. Like, I think it's a legitimate rematch. I think he did good enough in the fight to show that he can compete with Justin Gagey. He almost beat Justin Gagey. He was beating him pretty handedly until he didn't, right? But, like, I'm not even against that rematch.

But the problem is, you're in a situation. where armin just deserves it more and i know throw out the word deserve but but that's the word i'm going to use here like armin has earned that shot and rather than saying to armin like well unfortunately you're in the division with ilia and ilia's going to get it it should be the other way around you should be saying ilia unfortunately you're in division with armin sarukian who has done all this shit he's going to get it you can either wait on the sidelines get a rematch later which really wouldn't make sense in, but you know,

you need to fight any, it could be Patty. I mean, it could be someone else too, right? Like I've argued for like a tune up fight, you know, but,

you know, somebody else. You got to earn your way back. I think that is the best explanation right there. You know what I mean? If Armin doesn't exist, cool, give him early a shot.

But Armin does exist. How are you going to screw him over again? Like you got to get to this guy. You can't just wait, wait, wait, it's going to happen. you're going to get your shot. No, he has done more than enough to earn that shot. And exactly what you're saying is true. It's like, it's not that we don't want

Ilya to get that shot or earn that shot or have that title opportunity. It's because Armin Sarukin exists. And Armin Surukin is fucking killing it on all facets. Yeah. I mean, look, if Armin hadn't been doing the streaming and R-A-F and, you know, Nina drama garbage and the neon silly stuff, you know, if he'd, wasn't doing all this stuff. Look, I mean, I would see where there'd be an argument. You know what I mean? You'd be like, look, you're not popular, bro. Like, you know, no one knows who you are, whatever. I still don't think it'd be a good argument because I do believe in sport over entertainment first. But I can at least see it. But he's doing it so far above

and beyond what the average fighter would do, right? Like he's just went above and beyond. And then I think he just cemented it last night. When he elbow knocked out Ruffy, I mean, to me, it was like, it was cemented in stone right there. Like, there's no denying this kid now. I mean, and he had the biggest reaction. Like, the crowd went nuts for him. Now, granted, you know, I know, Los Angeles, the big Armenian community, he's Armenian.

But the crowd went nuts. Like, they reacted to everything he was doing. He was the biggest star at the press conference, the biggest star at the weigh-ins. Like, it's not like he has a flash in a pan. Like, he's just like a one-hit wonder. Everyone, and that's credit to our, Armin for actually trying to build that fan base, try to build that, that popularity.

And it's like he did everything you could possibly ask him to do to put himself in this position. Don't, don't screw him over now. Like, don't do that to him now. Yep. Yeah, I mean, you know, the UFC's a little bit unpredictable on these types of things. But I don't see where you can deny him.

I didn't hear what Dana said about it at the post fight or anything. but I just I don't see where you find a way to deny Armand at this point. I agree. Totally agree. Matt, we're not opposed to. We're not, we're not about being wrong. We've been wrong on this show many, many times with our opinion.

That's wrong about Rufi and Iron. Nothing wrong with that. But I think you and I both got a little bit wrong with one of the heavyweights that we were talking about ready to become champion on day one. And that would be Olympian, and aluminum gold medalist Gable Steven who came in and boy do people not like him man people were just like all over

him I think it's the John Johnson doesn't help because John's kind of a controversial guy but he you know Gable was all confident maybe cocky I don't know comes in and Sean Chiraph who is the guy guaranteed most people I hadn't even heard of when they had to this fight booked

comes in and with a vicious left hook from hell absolutely just demolishes Gable Steveston in 12 seconds and ends the undefeated reign, the undefeated record. And there was a lot of, also controversy, but I guess you'd call it controversy. Then he got knocked out, he got helped up, and he just left the Octagon. He didn't stay to congratulate his opponent, didn't raise his hand, didn't say, hey, great job, and didn't leave, nothing.

And he got a lot of crap for that. From, like, wrestlers, Daniel Cormier was like, you don't do that. Like, you stay and you take your licks, man, like you lost. what was your what was your reaction to gable's performance and there's really not much to react you he got knocked out in 12 seconds but what what do you do with them in the future because like people really dislike this kid they really just like this kid and the problem is I don't know I don't know was it just a fluke like he just got caught and he'll come back better or was this just like a fundamental problem he has with getting punched I don't know but what did you make of the

whole gable steveson situation yeah man I mean he brought up a lot of different things there you know there's a lot of layers to this you know um first off uh boy my Twitter blew up when that happened you know apparently our podcast is somewhat popular and people listen and and everybody's like oh you're a fucking idiot huh look at this you're fucking dumb assley like you called wrong you know and but let me say this first like I'm not just going to concede that I was wrong okay like he got caught and he got knocked out I Obviously, that's not like the end of it. You know, GSP got knocked out too.

You know what I mean? Like this isn't, you know, a DJ lost fucking like all the, Anderson Silva. Like everybody lost, man. Like don't act like this is in MMA yet. But then when, you know, watching the fight, even like the whole week, you know, it brought up a lot of questions about Gable. just to me as an outsider looking in some of an insider I guess I've been in there with you know same spots he's been but you know going going to the arena with John Jones driving down

Hollywood Boulevard and a Mercedes or Rolls Royce or whatever it was you know kind of expecting to win and yeah a little bit cocky you know which is okay right it's okay right it's okay to be a little bit cocky. But it really felt like, man, I hate being, you know, this guy to criticize and say, you know, what you should be doing or whatever. I don't really know. But it doesn't feel like John Jones is the right guy to be coaching him and guiding him through this shit.

For what, like, his responses to a lot of the negativity that was coming his way were absolutely terrible, worded terribly and spoken terribly. You know, first I think it needs to go hire a PR person. You know, like I think that would be a great first move for him. Because, I mean, he should be a highly talented, a highly loved guy. And he's over here getting a bunch of hate. Now, whether he deserves the hate or not, I have no idea. But from his responses, he certainly didn't make.

it any better you know yeah and then kind of the way that he got knocked out it didn't appears if he'd ever is like he's been pushed before like when he threw that jab and his eyes are closed and he's kind of reaching out trying to get i mean look we can we can dog technique all day long i mean i'm not here to do that but it didn't look as if he's really been pushed the way that he probably should be getting pushed like he's has an experience getting hit a lot, you know, and that left him wide open. Yeah. Sean Sheriff, on the other hand, I mean, you also have to keep in mind.

Like, he had nothing to lose, right? He comes in, he's like, I'm going to fucking throw for the fences. Like, what do I got to lose here? So, you know, it puts both of you in a little tougher situation. But I would have expected Gable to handle it better than he did. we can certainly unpack more. I've been kind of going on for a while now, but I'll say this first.

Like this, if Gable has the hunger motivation to really do this, which is the other question, right? Because, you know, he was in WW, then NFL, and it's like his, his MMA just, you know, another shot in the dark, you know what I mean? Is he just, you know, throwing darks at the wall? And, you know, maybe he quits after this. but if he really has the hunger motivation,

I'm still on the same train. He's going to smash everybody, right? Maybe one day he'll even rematch Sean Sherwin. He'll probably smash him too. I think he's unstoppable if he has the right hunger motivation. And then I have to question the coach. Like, he's got to have the right coaching. John Jones trying to teach him to be John Jones is not the way.

Yeah, I agree with that. Now, I will say leaving the octagon before your opponent gets his hand raised at, That's bad move. I never enjoyed that. Never enjoyed that. All that, that was, I forgot to even get to that part

because now you're talking, John Jones, Greg Jackson, and I believe it was Winkle John, they escorted him and like hugged them on the way out. I've seen the little video clip of that. They should have been the one saying,

no, go back in there, be a man about it. You know, again, this is where just another layer of questioning, like the people around them.

What are they, do them with them and, you know, are they coaching him or are they just kind of pandering to them? Yeah. And listen, I've said this before, like, you know how much respect I have for John Jones. I call him the greatest of all time. I'll always call him the greatest of all time. But some people aren't necessarily cut out to be coaches.

And you wonder, like, what is John telling Gable? Because Gable does have, like, Gable's since arriving in the O.C., now, Grant, has two fights, but he's had this, like, almost like aura of a little bit of arrogance, you know what I mean? Like he's like John Jones with my mentor, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, ha ha, yeah, I got John Jones in my corner. And yeah, it's really cool. John Jones is my opinion, like I said, my opinion, greatest of all time.

But I don't know that he's equipped to help gable through these moments, you know what because he never experienced it. John Jones never experienced this kind of loss. He never got absolutely flatlined by one punch, ever. And I just wonder. like is Gable getting the good is Gable getting right the right advice because when he first came into MMA or when he first decided to do M.A. Yeah, he had been down at Kilcliffe working with those guys, you know, just kind of working

quietly with those guys. I think he went back to University of Minnesota where he's from where they have great wrestlers and they've obviously produced some great fighters as well. And then he hooked up with John Jones to help John get ready for Steve. That's how they met. And maybe behind closed doors John is the greatest M.M.A. coach you've ever seen. I don't know. But I don't know that they got him equipped for like, what are you doing this moment when things don't go right? It's not like they could have said,

like, hey, you need to take the punch and roll reverse and like, you got knocked out cold, so it was over. But just like the, just like leaving the octagon at the end and not shaking his opponent's hand or saying congratulations, like these are little things you have to learn in the cage. Maybe your instinct is I just got knocked to fuck out. I want to get out of here. I do not want to be in this ring anymore. Understandable. But that's just not how a sport, that's just not how a sport.

You don't have to, you don't have to like, you don't have to like shake his hand and hug him and say he's the greatest guy ever. You just have to shake his hand, say, hey, congratulations man, good job. And move on. It's not that hard.

You know what I mean? But I just wonder. But I'm just saying like, does he have to, I don't know that he has the people around him that are going to like, you know, like, you don't have to be like, you don't have to be humble forever,

but you have to be humble in that. that moment and he just left and when Daniel Cormier who is in my opinion like one of the paragon's of the sport you know he always says the right things does the right things you know whatever says like I face that situation and I just cried and he's like that's just the nature of the beast and people make fun of me but hey that's that's the nature of the beast um when he's saying that you were whatever was like disgraceful for not shaking his hand or at least being there when the announcement made that's a big thing. deal. That's a big deal.

No, that's it, man. And that's why you have to wonder about the people around them. And but that goes into, you know, what is his motivation for doing this, right? Is he doing this for clout and to be famous and to live the John Jones lifestyle? Right? Is it you got to do the work first, buddy? You know, you don't, you don't just walk into that lifestyle. You, there's a long, way to go. This is a long road that's going to be a lot of bumps and it's going to be hard. And I just wonder if they're kind of making that, again, I don't want to judge because I don't know. You know, I'm not on the inside. I don't know these people personally. I don't know them what's going on behind closed doors. But when something like this happens, you can't help us

start questioning those things. And you have to question, you know, is Gable hungry for this? Like you got to be a fucking hungry lion for this shit. Like you got to be starving. And you can tell the days when John Jones was starving, right? Like you could fucking see it when he was bloodthirsty. And it was a lot different than when he was kind of going on cruise control. Right. Now, John Jones as a coach, is he on cruise control?

And that mentality is kind of rubbing off on Gable. Again, these are all hypothetical. things that you know and assumptions that I'm making so you know the I don't know what's in stone but you know if we just remove all of that stuff look gable steveser I'm going to stand by it if he wants this shit and he he's hungry to be champion he's fucking y'all up you know he has that athletic ability like I just I don't care what you say about it like he has you could even in that little 10 seconds I mean you can see he was light on his fee, he's moving well. It's just when the punches started getting thrown, you know, he's closing

his eyes. Again, it's like he hasn't been in that situation enough. That might just be experiencing the cage that he needs. That might be, you know, a harder rounds in practice. I'm not sure what the answer is, because again, I'm not behind the scenes here. But hopefully, you know, they take this as a lesson the entire week, right? PR-wise, personality-wise, marketing-wise, and fight-wise. Like, they need to take a lesson from this entire week, because this week was a disaster for Gable Stevenson. You know, and you brought this up before a long time ago,

concern about John Jones as his coach, because, you know, there's a long list of, like, how much influence do you want John Jones to have on anybody, much less a great prospect like this. I'm not blaming John Jones for Gable getting knocked out last night but you wonder because Gable has become

I hate to use this word but like I think he's got a bit of an ego you know what I mean like he's kind of like I'm the shit you know I'm the and by the way it comes from guys like us and you're gonna you could knock out Tom Aspinall tomorrow we're the one selling him that

but I can't help to add to that not to cut you out but John Jones is the shit yeah he is because he's and he's put in the work to prove he's the shit. Gable hasn't yet. He's the shit in wrestling. No. Not the shit in May. Yeah. But like that, when you see that kind of a loss like that, you just wonder, like, what are they telling him behind the scenes? You know what I mean? Like, is he, is he being treated as a one and or, well, I think he's records like four and a, or now four and one? But like, are they treating

him like a prospect? If they would any other prospect, or are they treating him special saying, you're destined for greatness, you're destined for this, you're going to be this, you're going to be that is that helping him? Like is that actually helping him? You know, like, does he know, like, does he have that humility in him to say, oh, shit, I don't know how to do this or I just got caught or I just whatever. Because, man, people were, I mean, people were like celebrating him getting knocked out last night. It was bad.

Yeah. And again, you know, it all comes down to the convictions, right, the past rape conventions that he's had. And that's why they are hating on him, right? And then John Jones is just adding fuel to that fire. right? It's not, if that had never happened, then, you know, the John Jones thing probably looks a lot better on paper or image wise than it has, you know, with everything added up to the sum of the parts, right? So again, he's, he needs to do the right PR. Like, you got to respond properly to those types of things. Some of his responses this week were just like, like, like, bro, like, did that just, you know, is if you talk. to anybody about this ever before you know you know it just didn't come across this whole week was a fucking disaster for Gable Stevenson if he believes in

himself which is where it has to start that he can become champion and he truly wants to become some champion I'm gonna stand by it like he can absolutely fucking wreck the division like I'll stand by it even if he goes to get knocked again I was I was stand by it and I was stand by it and I was to say, look, he could have done it. Like, I guess maybe and you are on the same page here where we're both saying he didn't lose solely because of his, you know, his fight IQ

or, you know, his skill against skill, things like, like he lost because of a hundred different factors, right? It's kind of the death of it from a thousand cuts thing. And all those little cuts added up and then it finally just got his head cut off. there in the end. And, you know, it's a, you know, he's got a long way to go. Athletically, he doesn't have a long way to go. Yeah. I mean, listen, Bo Nicol got knocked out by a body shot, and we were very, very high on Bo Nicol. I know I was very high with him on Bo Nickel.

And then he comes back and he's been winning since then. He learned his lesson. He's been better. He's done better from that. I think, but I think, you know, Gable's the same way. It's just, you know, he had a bigger profile because, of course, you know, he's, John Jones's boy. John Jones is the greatest of all time. You're going to get more attention that way. And I know, I know talking to Rainier to Ritter, even after he beat Bo Nicol, like he's changed camps.

He's now an American top team now where Bo Nicol actually trains. And, you know, he needed a change of pace himself. So I think the big thing is that was the Gables, he just needs to humble himself enough to say, you know what, I lost. You know, it sucks. I lost in 12 seconds. congratulations. But I think like when you when you tack on the John Jones thing and you tack on like it seems

like he kind of was a bit of an egomaniac a little bit. And obviously he has these accusations from his college days, which do not go away and people were not happy about. Understandably so. It's a horrible, horrible crime. Walking out of that octagon and not even bother him to shake your opponent's hand and just leaving. Like that's not going to help you is what I'm getting at.

Like that's what I'm talking about. Like even in that smallest moment when you could have been like, Congratulations, Sean. Great job. Shake his hand, give him a hug, and then gets a fuck out of there. I'm fine with that. He did none of that. And that's not going to help him.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree, man. And it just goes down to, like, you know, I hate to get too deep out. But, like, philosophically, like, he needs to get his spirit right. Where it's like, what are you doing this for? Like, what is your internal motivation here? What's your drivers? What makes you want to go in there and risk your life?

money. And if it is just fame, and it's just because I question, like, did he just think this was going to be easy for him? Because I could see where, like, it would look easy, right? Especially being this high level of a wrestler as he is, where it would look like this is going to be a pretty easy road. I just go ahead and take everybody down and smash everybody. Like, you know, he might have been thinking kind of what we were thinking when he came in. Like, he's going to fucking wreck everybody, no problem. You know, he probably had that same train of thought. But now we find out, okay, like he'd lost in wrestling before, right? He was an All-American, I think, two or three times before he won national championships.

So I said he'd lost at those high levels. But he came back and tried again, right? And eventually he became two-time, I believe, national champion, if I'm, might stand corrected there. Two-time national champion, yep, Olympic gold medal. And then eventually went win the Olympics, right? But he came back from defeat to do that. Now, if he has that same hunger that he did to do that to come in Tim and May, I'm still going to argue the sky's the fucking limit for this guy. He still could be the champion.

He can still smash everybody. But he's got to get his fucking spirit and his soul right. Yeah. I know, I know Joe, I think it was Joe Rogan said something last night about where he's talking about, like, this guy is a, or maybe it was DC, I can't know which one. but like this guy's a world world class wrestler he's a gold medalist what do you do and even stand with Sean Shara for five seconds like why are you even bothered

that? Yeah I don't necessarily like it when people say that I mean it's how do he shot in in five seconds? Like a Ben Ascrant or something people be saying the same shit you know what I mean it's like about what the fuck you do and shooting five seconds in it's like it's like well you know you're finding him in May like

you have to fucking you have to set shit up you know Who knows, which is the other, like, again, who knows what their game plan was? You know, if he was trying to get a little bit of experience striking in the octagon, which I think we would most would argue that would be a faulty idea, right? That's not a great gameplay. But he might have had like, you know, a setup that he's seeing from Sean Sheriff on tape and was like, okay, this is the way we're going to do the takedown and was looking.

We don't know, right? Again, there's so much. there's so that's where where it is kind of tough to talk about these things sometimes because there is so many unknowns and there and there's a lot of hypotheticals and assumptions that we make uh but i'm here to tell you like you can assume and hypotheticalize whatever the fuck you want the dude wants to be a fucking champion and he's going to fuck everybody up but he's got to be fucking hungry and he's got to have the right people around him. Those things is he gets the

the outside taking care of. Everything inside that octagon, he's going to fucking smash boy, I'm telling you. Yeah. I mean, like I said, and at the end of the day, we got to remember like he is, you know, humility is big thing? And like, is he actually going

to learn humility from that loss? Is he actually learn, like, man, I fucked up? Or is he going to, you know, become a bigger egotomaniac? I just got caught or I just got slipping or whatever. There's just so And the bigger question is, does he even quit from this, right? Because again, you know, he tried the NFL, didn't work. He didn't do it. Tried WGB. Didn't work. He just stopped. Is M.MA another one of those? Where, again, makes me question, like, does he know what he wants his path in life to be? Right? Is he a little confused spiritually or, I don't know, you know, like on the inside, right? And that's exactly what makes you question, you know, his ceiling in this sport. Because you got to be firing on all eight cylinders and your fucking heart and soul and mind and body all have to be fucking tuned and aligned to this son of a bitch sport.

No one. Or it would be a son of a bitch like it was to him last weekend. Yeah, no one would question talent. Like the talent's there. I mean he wants to do it. You know what I mean? Right. So somebody brought that up last night.

Like, you know, went to the WVE didn't work out. He quit. Went to, you know, football, tried to drop a football. Didn't work out. He quit. Like, is this just who Gable Steven is? Like, is he just not that guy? And then, which adds to the other question, which you generally don't question this with

wrestlers is, does he have that fucking dog in him? Yeah. You know, is he just a, is he, does he have the spirit of a real fighting man? Right. Is he a real? Does he got that fucking Jack Dempsey dog in him? Does he got that, you know, Arturo Gotti's shit in him? You know what I mean?

And I think there's, that's where the questions need to be raised. You know, all these people being like, you know, everybody trying to say that they're right because he got knocked out and they're like, he's not going to do all this. It's M. And it's like, you're just fucking trying to make yourself feel good. Like, he has the talent. Like, stop with that bullshit. Yeah, he has a talent, but how's he going to use it? And how's he bounce?

But, like I said, I didn't like that from last night either, like, when he walked out and didn't shake his hand. I didn't either, yeah. Don't think that, man. Like, you know, all you got to do is two seconds. Shake his hands and congratulations and walk on. You know what I mean? But, like, I've been there before when fighters walk out, and it's just like,

never a good look. I'm not saying, you only have to be sincere. I know it sounds terrible. You don't even have to be sincere about it. You just be like, fuck this guy. Like, you know. Look, like, I can speak clearly on this situation. like i've had my losses right and and believe me every time you shake out motherfucker's hand you want to

punch them again you're like you're like bro it ain't over i'm gonna fuck you up and then you know by time you're in the locker room you're looking for dana i want a rematch you know like like believe me i know it's not fucking easy bro it's one of the worst things on this planet and especially when you're gable steveson and you got all those all the hype behind you and and you got john jones in your corner or something, you know, and everybody's telling you, you're going to be the man. You got people like me pumping you up saying, you're going to smash everybody and be the champion. And then in 12 seconds, that shit is done.

Yeah. It feels done and the moment. Yeah. And that's the last thing I'll say on this, too. That's what people forget. Again, I kind of started with this. Like, GSP lost. It was a moment.

DJ lost. It was a moment. Anderson lost. It was a moment. This was a moment. It was a bad moment. It's not, his legacy is not going to be defined by this moment. It's going to be defined on how he comes back from this moment.

Yeah, I agree. Well, that was probably one of the more shocking moments than that. But overall, the card was great. We didn't get a chance. We'll probably talk about this more next week because we obviously will have time. You know, Tom Aspinall officially gave up his title. He's no longer heavyweight champion. Cyril Ghan has been crowned the undisputed champion.

He's taken on Josh Hoke at November. We'll talk about that more later, of course. lots of another fights obviously they finally made Kayla versus Amanda Nunes which is going to be awesome the one women's fight I'm actually excited about that so we'll talk about more later we finally have some topics

to talk about later in the week but we kind of have to cover whatever everything to went down at UFC 301 and they made some announcements with 33 and you know 322 this is maybe not the greatest card in the world but it's being announced 333 and Abu Dhabi where we get Morav and Jan 3 and then of course

334 where we get zero Gone versus Josh Okun. So we'll talk about over the next few weeks. If people want to check out what you got going on outside the podcast, Matt, where can they go? What can they do? At I'm Immortal, Instagram and Twitter, the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook, the immortalpodcast.com. And I don't know, wherever the fuck else you want to find me. I'll be there.

And as always, I want to say, big thank you everyone that tunes in the show. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify. And, of course, everyone in the best website in the world, MNM. fighting.com for Matt Brown. I am David Martin. We will see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the writer.