MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer Reacts to Amanda Nunes’ Retirement, Floyd Mayweather’s Exhibitions and the Possibility of Matt Brown vs. Jim Miller at UFC 300

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin debate the latest topics in MMA including Amanda Nunes’ retirement after defending her bantamweight title at UFC 289. Perhaps more than any other single fighter in MMA history, Nunes has defined herself as the greatest of all time among the women’s divisions but is she really done after such a one-sided victory over Irene Aldana? Where does the bantamweight division go from here without Nunes around? Plus we’ll discuss Floyd Mayweather’s latest exhibition bout gone wrong after he ended up in a brawl with John Gotti III and his entourage following their match on Sunday night. Brown will also counter Daniel Cormier’s argument about Jim Miller not being UFC Hall of Fame material while also responding to a potential matchup against Miller at UFC 300. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. Welcome back to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I'm your host as always, Damon Martin.

He is the man with the most knockouts in UFC history. He's back after a wild week. Matt Brown. Matt, welcome back. appreciate you being here the show's not the same without you oh well thank you very much sorry I got a little distracted there

my buddy just sent me a little video of a highlight of the one and only Ernesto Hoost oh yeah that's very distracting bro Ernesto Hoost was the fucking man did I were telling you I think I told you this story before I went to 1K1 fight my entire life

and it was out in Vegas when Bob Sapp fought chemo in the main event and that was the that was the same night that ernesto hoost fought vernon tiger white and he flew across the ring with a flying kick and it literally looked like he took off vernon tiger white's head it was the quickest like nastiest knockout because he did it in the corner and vernon tiger white just slumped down and i was like what the hell just happened like he literally jumped across the ring and kicked him in the head and he just crumbled in the corner man burning white that was one of those guys that i feel like just never lived up to all of the, I don't know, like, like he could have done so much better, I feel like he was just fight anybody anytime though. Well, those old school, that's an old school Lionsden guy. Yeah, yeah, man.

Actually, the first UFC fight I ever seen live was when he fought Chuck Lidale. Oh, yeah, Vernon Tiger White. Yeah, he's one of those iconic, uh, iconic fighters who you can't say his name without saying Vernon Tiger White. You can't say just Vernon White. Like it's like saying, it's like saying Donald Seroni. It just doesn't sound right. I think it's Donald Cowboys Serrani.

It's Vernon Tiger White. Yeah, yeah, I agree, man. Yeah, whatever happened to him, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. He'd been a long time. No, I saw a photo about a year ago. I think it was about a year ago.

And somebody sent it to me. And they're like, do you recognize the two guys of this photo? And Ken Shamrock was one. One was Guy Mezger, because I know I've seen Guy fairly recently. But the third guy in the photo was Trey Tellegman. Remember Trey Talingwyn, the guy had the one pack? And I didn't recognize him. I was like, I feel like I should know who that is.

And I've watched Trey. Like I know who Trey Teguant is, but it didn't look like him. And he's like, Trey Teguant was like, holy shit, that's Trey Teglin. I was like, oh, my God, I haven't seen that guy in like a decade. Yeah, boy, that was a talented gym, wasn't it? Back in the day, man, that was the, that was the, that was the, that was the, that was the, that was the, that was the, that was the, that was the, that was the, hammer house. Hammerhouse, of course, with the shoebox. Yeah, shoot the box with those guys.

Yeah, there's a few of those back of the day. So, yeah, Trey Telleigman, Guy Messker, Jerry Bolander, remember Jerry Bolander? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Old school. Old school. Good times, man. We should do some podcasts, like, just talking about all the old shit back then.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. What was the first UFC you ever watched? VHS. I know Tank was on it, Tank Abbott. I can't remember who he fought, but I was just obsessed with Tank after that. He was like one of us,

you know what I mean? He was a fat bar brawler. Dude, that's like the dude that I know down at, you know, Joe's Bar, bro. That's one of us right there.

I mean, he's a fucking pit fighter. Yeah, so like I love Tank, man. And then I think the, either second or third one, right around then, I've seen the VHS with a tank

and Vitor Belfort. And I was like, oh, Tank isn't all that. I thought he was just going to knock out everybody, and Vitor had come in and just fucking scorched. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, that's a real athlete right there. That's the difference.

Learn pretty young. But the first live event I've ever seen actually was a pride. And it was when Sakharaba fought Gracie. Oh, really? I wasn't there live, obviously. But, you know, that I watched on TV live. And it was Sakharaba Gracie and just went, you know, it was like,

hour and a half long or something, but to me, that was the most amazing thing ever, man. It was so epic. And looking back, it was like, man, that was a boring ass fight. Like, it didn't do hard to do it. But at the time, watching it live, I was like, dude, this is fucking epic. I remember watching, I think it was Shamrock and Dan Severn when they didn't have rounds or anything. And they went like 20.

It was like 30 minutes. And it was the most boring fight ever. Like back in the day, like, oh my God, this epic like Ironman. Warren then you rewatched you like yeah this isn't good like this is not a good fight at all like it was just not entertaining whatsoever or i remember when sever and fought uh hoist crazy i i didn't watch it you know i watched it way later right but i was like dude what the fuck did he tap to like what did what did that guy and the little kid in the ghee do to him like i don't think sever knew what he did to him right yeah sever just held him down for it was the same thing it was so boring

and you're like oh severance beating the crap out of him and then all of a sudden he's tapping out you're like what just happened like he just scissor his legs or something now it's funny when you watch the old ufc events you can literally see the stages of evolution like you mentioned tank avids like vitor belfort and i remember ufc 10 when our guy mark the hammer coleman shows up monster wrestler taking guys down headbutton him and beating him up and that was like of course he was the godfather ground and pound but i remember watching that event ufc 10 and like like seeing like that was a shift in the sport, like a high-level top wrestler coming in and just taking people down and mauling them to that point that hadn't really been done.

You know what I mean? Like, Hoyst came in and that was the jiu-jitsu. Everyone learned about Brazilian jiu-jitsu at that moment. And then, you know, obviously you got like the street fighters like Tank Abbott. But then you go to like the next evolution with wrestling with Mark Coleman. And like those days, you can see the evolution of the sport. Now, you know, everyone's like, you know, everyone's well-versed and everything. Like you can't get into the UFC without knowing a little.

and everything. Like, you may not be the best ground guy in the world, but you've got to be somewhat decent, unless you're, like, see him punk. You got to be somewhat decent in, like, you know, jiu-jit-sulio. But back in the day, like, you could literally see event by event,

like the evolution of people coming in. Yeah, it was pretty cool how that worked, wasn't, man. And then Pride had, you know, very similar thing, right? You kind of just see the evolution, man, where you had these guys, you know, the freak show fights.

You had the fucking, um, you know, God, it was just different over there, man, especially the heavyweight division, right? Like, that was the real evolution. Like, guys like Fador that were just smashing people everywhere. Yeah, man, like, what a great time that was. Do you remember the match when Bob Sapp basically piled drove a big gnaug on his head

and somehow no gear came back in one? Oh, yeah. That was crazy. Like, that was like the truest definition of a freak show finally. Bob Sapp was this just monstrous human being who really had. had no idea what he was doing but you know he's like freaking you know he's six foot four you know 300 pounds of muscle you know you can just you can you know you can fake your way through a lot of that just being that strong and he dumps no gare on his head look like he killed him

and then no gare comes back and taps him out like dude that was like those were like i'm not necessarily happy we don't have those fights anymore but like those were those were some crazy days dude i remember training with matt hume and he trained bob sap for some of those fights right because all the guys from Japan used to always come over to hums and train right and he said that bob sap was the biggest pussy you've ever seen like he was just like the softest guy you've ever met your life like cried during training like didn't want to do anything it's so funny how that works man all the big monsters are always the softest guys i always remember the fight when he did k1 when crow cop kicked him and broke his orbital bone do you remember that fight crow cop kicked him

and he just like fell down holding his eye and crying. I mean, not that like, listen, I can't really blame you there. Crow Cop kicked me in the head. I'd probably either be dead or crying too, but I'll never forget that. Or maybe it was a punch. I don't know if he kicked him. He just punched him in the eye and he like grabbed his eye and like fell over. Like it was like, that was like, I remember he did that in K1.

I was like, yep, that dude's done. I remember right, they fought twice, right? Because the one time was the punch broke his orbital and the second time he kicked his liver, right? That's what it was. Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. Like, I remember, I remember, I just remember him grabbing his eye and, like, he had that, like, weird, like, I'm not going to listen. I'm not going to fault anyone for, you know, whatever they do.

They got more guts being in there than I do. But, like, I just remember him, like, grabbing his eye and just, like, crumbling over. I just always remember, like, he grabbed his eye and just, like, flopped. Like, he didn't go out from the eye. He grabbed his eye and, like, went down. But it's pretty amazing. He beat Ernesto Hus twice, so. Dude.

And now he's got, like. Amazing or what? Yeah. now he's got like a 20 and like 500 record he just loses like he still fights does he really yeah he said he was doing that he was doing that he did that he did that freak show fight over in uh Thailand or whatever with uh rampage jackson not that long ago like he does all these weird like he was circus fights yeah circus fights yeah he's doing that and he did uh he was still fighting over in like japan another place in asia like he would fight and like he would put on a fight for like 45 seconds and then he would just roll over to

whoever he was finally. If you look at his record, it's like remarkably hilarious now. It's like 25 and like 500 or something. So what? I'm making that number of, but it's like ridiculous. It's like though it's Shannon Rich style. Now there's a name the new fans don't remember. Shannon the canon.

Legendary. Yeah. I remember I remember having a conversation with Diego Sanchez years ago, right after he did the ultimate fighter, was fighting Shannon Rich and King of the Cage. And it was his, I think it was like his last fighter, second to last fight before he got picked up for the ultimate fighter.

And I remember he took Shannon down and had him mounted. And Shannon, he said, this is Diego telling me this story. Shannon was literally putting his arm up, basically like begging Diego to arm bar him. Like he was just like, I want out arm bar me. Like he's not even fighting it. You know, like how you post. He was literally posting his arm just begging Diego. And Diego said, no, no, I'm not taking it.

just kept punching it. He wouldn't take the arm. Like he's literally like, here, tap me out. And he wouldn't do it. He just kept punching him. I remember Diego telling me that story. So I fought on the same card as Shane and Rich one time. I fought fucking Pete Spratt, bro.

Oh, Pete Spratt, old school Houston legend right there. Yeah, man. My third professional fight, I'd only been training for about a year at the time. Maybe, I don't know, a year and a half. I was scared out with my fucking mind. But I had to do these radio interviews. and what did the interviews, you know, the same radio station as Shannon Rich.

And like, listen to him talk. I was like, man, this dude's going to kill whoever he's fighting. And I watched him go out there. I think he like rolled for a hill hook, missed it and just tapped out. I don't think he even fought it. I just remember like how blown away I was.

I was like he talked to all that amazing stuff about how awesome he is. And like he was so well spoken. and then just gave up. I was like, what is it? There, I wonder, like, I'm curious, like, there's guys who have losses to Shannon Rich. Like, he didn't go, oh, and whatever. Like, he won fights.

Like, do you look, I wonder if those guys look back on those fights and they're just like, damn it. Like, how did I lose this guy? Like, he was like, he was like the professional rollover guy. Like, that's the guy you win in there. He had a little bit of a name. And he had a, you know, he had a big, like, record. and so people would go in there and he was like the stepping stone fight like Diego

Sanchez fought him a lot of guys did that and that was his thing like he was kind of like the guy who rolled over for a lot of good fighters and you know whatever but uh I wonder if like the 20 guys who lost him were just like fuck like no doubt well there used to be a guy here in uh in Ohio he was three and 26 and they were they was his name was the raging red and they always announced him as, you know, this, I forget his actual name, but you know, this is whatever, the raging breadneck, he's three and 26, but he's undefeated in the streets every single time. And I don't know how many times I've seen him fight where they would just, you know,

a guy would whiff a punch, like two feet away from him. Like, you just, all you had to do to fight it was just throw a punch. It didn't have to land. And he just fall over. And you'd hear the announcers sometimes they would be like, is there like a sniper in the crowd or something? Like what just happened to him? Oh, man.

He would do it like West Sims used to pay. We should get Wes on sometime and he could talk about it. Like, you know, Wes would pay, you know, two or three hundred bucks, whatever. And dude's like, like, hey, this is better than working a construction job, right? He's like, I get two or three hundred bucks. All I got to do is go in there and fall over. They had his whole ring entrance. He'd walk out.

It'd take him forever to walk out. You know, he'd walk really slow, and they'd walk all around the outside of the cage, and he would grab, so back, you know, that cage back then, the cages didn't have any walkways for like ring girls or whatever. So he'd walk up to the cage, grab the fence, and shake it, and then walk over to the next panel, grab the cage, shake it, and then finally make his way all the way back in. So I think he was, like, trying to intimidate his opponent, but, yeah, it just didn't work, I guess.

Didn't work. It didn't work. It's funny you bring up West Sims. I was just talking about West recently. We were talking about like old school UFC guys. Like guys, you know, where are they? They're kind of like, where are they now? And I remember I ran into Wes before your fight here in Columbus. I'm not mistaken. I was walking up nationwide. And I saw him outside. And he spotted me. And I spotted West. I was like, West Sims. He's like, what's going on? I hadn't seen him in like forever because I used to talk to West all the time. But for my understanding and like, you know, and I think you told me this, like, West is doing pretty good. Like, Wes is doing well for himself. Like, he's not, you know, he didn't become a cautionary tale of like, you know, fighter gone wrong when the career is over. He's doing very good, actually. He's making a lot of money, doing really good for himself. Got a few businesses going on.

He's in real estate now. Yeah, I'm very, he's actually a very, very smart businessman. He has a real good business mind, very intelligent. He owns a couple of Powell leagues, like P.A. police athletic leagues. Yeah, so puts on classes for those guys. Coleman goes out and runs those classes every now and then.

Lord knows what that ends up. Like, I don't know if anybody ever noticed. Like, Coleman is, anybody that follows Coleman on social media, sees how nutty he is. And I think he's the first person I ever met in my life that is crazy or sober than drunk.

Right? Like, when he was drunk, I mean, he was maybe like kind of emotional at times and would kind of say some off the wall shit. But he didn't have a lot of energy. now all that energy has just been bound up for years and years and it's just all coming out in every direction. I've never seen anything.

I've seen a lot of crazy guys drunk, and then they sober up, and they're calm and cool, and you're like, oh, okay, that's good. He's sober up. And if you met Coleman today, you would think that he's drunk right now, and he used to be sober, but it's actually the opposite. It's funny you mention that because, like,

Wes and Coleman together. like that pair man I tell you what like I can only imagine what those guys I've been around them together maybe once or twice so I can only imagine what that's like you know West Sims reminds me of like West Sims was so ahead of his time you know he reminds me I was like we used to have him on my old radio show all the time like all the time I still have clips of West Sims talking on my old show um he was like Chelsanan before Chelsanan like he was like he was like West Sims what like Chelsanin like is like West Sims at middleweight like he is literally. that dude. Like West Sims was hilarious

and he could cut a promo man. He was so funny and he could tell a story man. Like he could tell a great story. Like he was full on he was chill before chill. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah, he was one of the first guys I would say to kind of, you know,

I guess there's him, Tito. I guess I think those were kind of the first guys really to kind of do promos, right? And kind of hype the fight and talk shit and you know, say silly. stuff like all the rest of us we're all just like yeah we're gonna kick his ass you know like yeah they're just playing a whole different role there do you're did west said did you hear the

story that west told about the time he stopped him mugging do you ever tell you that story doesn't sound familiar he was i guess he was like there was somebody getting mugged or something west sims interjected and helped the guy out and the police come over and i guess he like had the guy like the guy who was mugging the person or was robbing somebody and Wes grabbed him and like had him down and the cop was like trying to get the guy to call him down and he's like I'm gonna mace you if you don't call him down and I still have the audio clip Wes is like

I said West Sims wanted to see a good mason so I said mason make him and he's like that was a bad idea because it blew back in my eyes the cop size it was bad for everybody oh man there's only to be a fly on the wall for that kind of shit right.

Wes, he used to be a nut, man, but it's very impressive what he's done with himself, bro. He's doing really, really good for himself. I got to catch up

with him soon. We'll get him on here sometime. Yeah, we got to get him on here. It's fun. I should reach out to him, too. I still got his number.

Like I said, I ran into him before your fight. I was walking up nationwide and I ran into him, and I was like, West Sims. And he's like, hey, what's going on, man? Like, one of those guys,

like, you know, you haven't seen him for five years and you just, you know, kind of fall back in your old pattern. because like I said, we used to, back of the day, I used to see him all the time. Like, I got to have him and Coleman and Randleman on my show all the time. Like, that was like the Columbus crew. So, yeah, we got to get Wes on here one these days.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting when you look at guys like Chale or Wes, you know, they're actually like really, really smart guys, you know. Yeah. Like, they kind of come across playing his character. And, you know, I'm sure like Colby's like that too, right? Like, they come across this character. But they're actually, like, really smart, you know. It actually takes a certain type of intention.

to be able to play that character, I think. Yeah, it's funny because I haven't spoken to Colby. I haven't done an interview to Colby in a couple of years, but I could say like when I was like closer, like when I did interviews would have been talked to him a lot. Off like and, you know, I think everyone's heard these stories and stuff. I did a story on him before he fought Usman the first time

about the real Colby Covington's. I reached out to a ton of his teammates at American Top Team when he was down there and like everyone's like, man, he's like the he is like the A class teammate. Like he'll come in and help you early. stay late. He'll help the amateurs. He'll help everybody. Like, if you're trying to learn wrestling, like, he'll teach you.

Great guy. He'll help you out. Like, I talked to this kid Thimbo Garimbo, who fought in the UFC recently. He was the one who came out afterwards and said he had like $7 in his bank account when he fought and, like, all that kind of story. I just talked to him. He trains down at MMA Masters with him. And he was staying at the gym because he lives in Africa and he was flying over here

and he was living in the gym. And he wasn't, he didn't tell anyone that he was like, you know, broke. Like, he wasn't, like, telling anyone. He said Colby would, like, bring him food and, like, help him out. And, like, again, I'm certainly not justifying the insane things that Colby Coveington says, but, like, when I was around him and, like, when I would talk to him when he wasn't Colby the character, like, he was, like, the nicest guy in the world. Like, he was genuinely, like, a super nice guy.

And from everything I've ever heard, teammates, people around him were like, dude, he's a great teammate, a great friend. He'll help you out. blah, blah, blah. He just, you know, he's plays, listen, you know, I don't abide by some of the dumb things he says when he's in character, but, you know, from everything I've heard outside of that, he's like a good dude. Yeah, I believe it, man. I mean, you would listen to his old interviews, like when he first came on into the UFC. I mean, he wasn't playing the character at all, right? Like, like he made a switch and played the character and it fucking worked for him, man.

And he got him a lot of hype and, you know, and he's a really, really good fighter on top of us. And it's worked out. Yeah, absolutely. So speaking about crazy insane things, about crazy insane things from this past weekend, I know it was, I know you were watching, I know you bought your pay-per-view

and you're sitting there watching. Floyd Mayweather's exhibition bout with John Gotti the third, it turned into total, who could have guessed that an exhibition fight between Floyd Mayweather and some random guy who's not a very good MMA fighter in boxing would just turn into a total melee when a guy gets disqualified

and they have entourages, charging the ring and getting in fights and stuff? Who could have ever imagine that would happen? And I'm not even going to talk about the side show that is that whole mess because I just, it's like what, but dude, what is Floyd doing? Seriously, like, what is Floyd doing? Like, what is he doing? Getting paid, bro. I bet he got paid more than any UFC fighter last weekend for what he did over the weekend.

And I didn't even know what was going on. Most of it's probably, most people listening probably didn't even know what's happening. I bet he still got paid. Yeah. of dollars, right? Like, you know, good for him, man. I tell you what, man. I mean, I guess, like I said, man, there's good business there if you can make it, right? Like, I guess he's Floyd Mayweather. I mean, it's just funny to me, like, he does these exhibition ballots, and you know someone, like, he's not

stepping in there for $10. Like, they're paying him well. And he's not getting paid 20, he's not getting paid $20 million like he did during his boxing days, but he's getting paid well enough. And he was in there styling on this dude. John Gotti, the third had no business being in there with Floyd Frickin Mayweather in a boxing match. We all know that. And I think that's where I'm like, what are you doing? Because, like, there's nothing interesting to me about that. But I'm sure someone's paying him.

And I guess, what is he, like, 47 now? Like, if you're 47 and you can go out and fight nobody's who have zero risk to you whatsoever and make a couple million dollars, I guess, go for it. It's just, it's so bizarre. Like, he has, like, set this weird standard for himself where he's doing all these exhibition bouts against the weirdest opponents. Like, he fought the one, he fought the one, he fought. he fought KSI's brother.

I know KSI's your favorite fighter, Matt. He fought him. He fought a couple of dudes in Japan. He now fought John Gotti the third. Who the hell's picking out these guys for him to fight? Like, where are these people coming from? Dude, that's not such a new thing, though. Like, a lot of boxers been doing that for a long time, man.

Like, doing, you know, stupid little fights or pro wrestling type stuff after their careers. Like, that's a... I've been around for a long time, I think. Yeah, it's just so bizarre to me It's just like, I don't know, like I guess I'm not Listen, I've said this a million times over I'm never going to fault anyone making money And Floyd, you know, I assume he's got tons of money

He doesn't need this money But who's gonna who's ever really gonna complain about adding an extra A couple hundred thousand or 500,000 or whatever On the stockpile of cash he's got It's just so weird like he's retired I think Right is the weird thing not that That he's doing it

but the weird thing is that it's working like who's paying him and like who's paying to watch this that's what i can't figure out like where's the fucking money coming from like of course you like you said he's not doing it for cheap it's fucking floy mayweather he's doing it for a lot of money but who's funding this shit is it i mean it was on pay-per-view like who's fuck they ain't nobody buying that pay-per-view yeah that's yeah it was some weird like off-shoot something called zeus or something some i've never heard of it before but somebody's got money how's it getting funded i'm telling you like every time i hear these kind of things happen and i maybe it's just like the the pessimist in me every time i hear one of these things my

thought is it's got to be some kind of like money laundering scheme or something like there's got to be something like nefarious happening that they can shell out like two million dollars to get floyd made with her because a as you said who's buying it for one and then be like even if you are buying it like why are you buying it like are you really going to are you really going into it thinking that like Floyd Mayweather's got a chance to lose? Like the Logan, the Logan Paul fight was the one where I understood it because Logan is a big star and Logan's also like twice Floyd's size.

And so I was like, okay, that's, I'm not saying it's interesting from an actual boxing perspective, but it's interesting because there's a story there. Logan's a big star. They put it on Showtime, all that kind of stuff. But like fighting John Gotti the third on Zeus, like that sounds like a joke. Like, it sounds like I'd be like, oh, could you believe? Like, if I told you right now, it's like, you know what? Uh, uh, his next fight, Floyd Mayweather is fighting the dude from Jersey Shore on, on, uh, on Neptune network.

You'd probably have to believe me because that's where Floyd's at today. Yeah, he's getting paid doing it, right? So, yeah, maybe a Floyd will fight me, man, let's go. You know, if he's fighting, I'm better than John Gotti, I think. Yeah, where's, where's, where's, where's, yeah. the raging redneck. That might be the next guy on line to fight Floyd Mayweather. I like that too.

I think he's probably retired raging redneck at this point. He might come out of retirement for a Floyd Mayweather payday. That's for sure. Yeah. But man, it's so weird. Yeah. But at least, like you said, at least Logan Paul has like fan base, you know?

Like I knew when that happened. I didn't know when, that's the weird saying. Why the fucks he fighting John Gotti? Like, how does he, how does John Gotti get picked to do that? I have no, like, John Gotti's not even like, he's not, it's not like John Gotti is like a UFC level fighter. Even that. I never heard his name before in my life. Yeah, he is a, he is a mixed martial artist.

I think he has like a six and two record or something like that. Like, he's, I mean, he's fought and he's fought and he's fought in, like, regional promotions. Like, I think like, CES has had him that promotion. Um, yeah. Yeah. But, like, it's the name. He got it because of the name. He is John God.

Godi's grandson. Like, that's his claim to fame. Like John God, John Gotti, the mobster, is his grandfather. So that's how he got it. But it's just like, so weird, man. Like, it's just, yeah, I don't understand it. I don't understand the attraction to it. More power to you.

I mean, you know, you're getting, I mean, how much, okay, Floyd Mayweatherer's not doing it for chief. We just established that. We know that. He's not stepping in there. But how much is John Gotti really making from this? Like, you know, I mean, like, what are they paying him? Like, what are they paying him?

Like, what are they paying this guy? to step in there and get beat on by Floyd Mayweather for five rounds. And beat on being a relative term because, you know, Floyd's got to put on a show. He's not going to go out there and just knock out in the first round. You're not fighting. Deontay Wilder is going to separate your head from your shoulders. You know, I don't know. Did you watch that video I sent you, like the melee afterwards like craziness?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've seen it. Real or staged? A lot of people are saying they think it was staged. Like, it was all set up to go like that. I don't know. I didn't watch it that closely, I guess. I don't know.

I didn't study the video, Damon. You weren't looking like this. You weren't looking like this a pruder tapes, like breaking down footage of your frame by frame? No, I was actually, I probably shouldn't admit this, but I was actually driving when you sent it and watched it while I was driving. So I didn't put a lot of energy into it. I need to stop doing that. I'm on my phone way too much when I'm driving. You're not the only one.

You know there's a new law in Ohio about that now, though, though, right? They give you a ticket now. catch you driving while you're on your phone. Yeah. It'll probably happen to me one day. Yeah, it'll probably happen to all this. I'm pretty sure it will. Yeah.

Now I find myself on iTunes reading the lyrics while I'm driving because the lyrics just play right along with it. I'm like, I'm like, I always wonder what they said during this fucking song. You did get you a touch screen, put it on there so you can read it easier in the car. Well, that's what it is.

You use iTunes or Spotify, right? I use, I use, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it'll follow along with it. You don't even have touch it. So it's like, and then the music we listen to, at least, you know, I listen to primarily. Yeah, you can't fucking understand what they're saying most times. So I like to see what they're saying.

That's true. That's totally, totally understandable. Totally understandable. With Amex Platinum, 400. $100 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex.

Conditions apply. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no.

But chicken tenders, yes. because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Did you catch the fights this past weekend? The actual fight is not Floyd Mayweather, the actual fights, the UFC 289 card? I kind of feel like being a co-host of an MMA podcast I probably should have, but I do. Did you see the news coming out of it, though? What's that? Amanda Nunes retired.

Did you see that? Oh, yeah, I did see that part. Yeah. Yeah, what a fucking legend, man. You know, is there, you can argue, like, we can argue all day about who we believe was the greatest of all time. Like, is it John Jones? Is it GSP?

Is it Anderson Silva? We can play all the games of like, you know, like, I had a conversation with someone earlier today. I said, John Jones is a goat. And they said, well, he tested positive, so he's not my goat. So we can have that debate all day. Has there ever been a more? unanimously considered greatest of all time than Amanda Nunes?

Like there's no question. Like there's like when you say arguably or who do you believe like Amanda Nunette like that is how good she was is that she is by far the best women's fighter ever. And it's not a question. Like maybe one day someone will take that from her. But right now like there's no question she is the greatest. Yeah. It's going to take a long time before someone is able to even.

match that, you know. I just seen the list there today. Like what? Cyborg, Rousie, Shevchenko, twice, home. I mean, Jesus. That's all the top girls right there. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. She beat, she beat every woman that ever held the Bantamweight and or featherweight title in the UFC. She beat Jermaine Duran Damme. She beat Holly Holmes. She beat Chris Cyborg. She beat Ronda. She beat me. Well, that's exactly what I was about to say. She beat every other girl that might have had a claim to be in the best ever. And she, as far as I can remember, she smashed all of them except for Shevchenko. Yeah.

Shevchenko is the only one she didn't like full on like beat like really badly. Yeah, it's weird because like, again, we all like to have these debates. There's no wrong answer. I mean, it's a subjective question, right? Like you can say like, you know, some people might say, oh, well, this guy's not the greatest. Well, you can't really argue with opinion. But there really, it's hard to have another opinion.

about Amanda Nunes, right? Like, she has so far in a way proven herself. And you know what's really scary about that is, is that for someone to top her, do you realize how far they're going to have to go? Because at least at these weight classes, like none of these other girls are around anymore. Like Rousey's retired, you know what I mean?

Cyborg's not in the UFC anymore. And she's probably got very limited time left in the sport. Misha Tate's still around, but she's not the same Misha Tate that she was, you know, four or five years ago. All these other people are just not around. Like to get to that level, you're going to have to win the title and defend it like 10 times to even get in that conversation of Amanda Nunes. Like that's how far she separated herself from the competition.

Like it's great because like even right now, like as great as John Jones has been, and I, again, I consider John Jones the greatest. You could argue that there's some other guys potentially, you know, coming up who like if Khabib had kept fighting, you know, Khab probably could have gotten there. He retired. So it's kind of an odd. You know, but Islam Kachab. Like if he keeps dominating, he could get in that conversation, right? Like, he could get in the conversation in a couple of years. It's going to take like a decade for anyone to get close to Amanda Nunes.

They're starting now. Like, it's going to take him a decade. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not seeing anyone out there right now that's got that in them, I don't think. But yeah, what a run she's had, man. Very impressive. And I was just saying when you talk about all the subjective shit, you know, like her, claim to the goat is objective, right?

Like, it's not even subjective anymore. Like, it's just pure facts. Like, no one comes fucking close. And there's no question about it. You know, it's crazy, though, too, is like, you remember when Anderson didn't retire, but when Anderson lost to Chris Wyman and then unfortunately had the leg break in the second fight, it felt like a little bit of the torch had been passed, right? Because Wyman had said, like, I'm going to be the guy to beat Anderson.

I'm going to be the guy to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thrown him and he did it. He proved it and beat him. And then Chris fought and lost the, you know, rock hole down the road. And it kind of moved on from there. And there was like a legitimate in that moment, a little bit of passing torch. Because when he had the broken leg, then he was out for a year and a half and you kind of moved on, right? Like the division kind of moved on. Amanda retiring with the title is like the most gangster move ever because they're probably going to do Giuliana Pena and Raquel Pennington. Well, Nunes thumped both of them. She beat Pena, you know, 50, 43 the last time they fought. And credit,

Pena did beat her. She was the one girl who beat Amanda Nunes recently, but, you know, the second fight wasn't even close. Amanda just absolutely dominated her. And then she dominated Raquel Pennington. Holly Holmes still out there. She dominated, knocked out Holly Holie Holm. Like, this is one of those weird situations where someone retires and you're like, where does the division go from here because like she was so she was so like consequential like Dana Dana White's already come out and said they're probably just going to dump featherway like they don't need it anymore like Amanda's not around there's going to get rid of the division and Bantuway like everyone that's near the top is everyone that she's already beaten like it's

so crazy like how much of a vacuum Amanda Nunes's retirement is going to send into that division like the band remember the Bantway I mean the Banda Bainte Bay Division is how women started in the UFC and, you know, obviously with Ronda, and Ronda was a massive, massive star. And then you kind of pass the torch with Ronda to Holly and then obviously to Misha and then, of course, to Amanda. And then Amanda, you know, vanquishes Ronda again. And, you know, now it's like, where do you go from here? Like, where, you know what I mean? Like, I know you're, I don't, I don't imagine you're sitting around looking at the rankings in your spare time, Matt.

But like, Juliana Paine and Raquel Pennington, does that get you excited? Yeah, it doesn't have the same. pop to it, does it? Do you think that Amanda stays retired for sure? I do. I think this is one that'll stick. She's got a baby. She's got another one on the way.

She got a lot of money. And I think she's one of the rare instances where she wants to go out on top. And she hates Giuliana Pena, and I think she wants to stick it to her. Like Julie, she said she almost retired after the first Giuliana fight, but she couldn't stomach the idea of leaving with Julie. Juliana is champion. And so she had to come back and just absolutely obliterate Julianne in the rematch. And then obviously she was going to fight her for a third time and Juliana got injured.

But that's a gangster move. When you know Julianna's like chomping the bit to get there. And she's like, nope, lay down the title. I'm out. Peace out. Yeah. I don't know, man. That's a tough one because, you know, she can come back and, like, she has a really good chance of beating anybody when she comes back.

And she can make good money. So that's the only reason I say, you know, is she actually retired? Like, she come back and beat somebody and she's already beat again. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I get this since she's done because, you know, she made a big deal out of it on Saturday, laying down the titles and everything.

And, you know, she is in a different place now with her wife and her kids and everything. And I'm kind of like, yeah, because you and I know, like, most fighters don't go out with their hands held high. they go out on their back. Like, that's the sad reality of retirements in MMA. You know what I mean? They go until they can't go anymore. And you can count on one hand. You know, George St. Pierre went out as a champion.

Habib went out as a champion. You know, Amanda Nunes went out as a champion. But, like, rarely does anyone else do that? I get the sense that she's done, though. I get the sense that, like, she's probably done. She's moving on to other things. She hasn't been all that. She hasn't been incredibly active the last couple years anyways.

And while you're right, like, she could probably still beat everyone in the division. She's already beaten everyone in the division. Like she's already beat everybody once. Like she beat Pena. She beat Pettington. She beat home. Like she beat Aldana the Saturday night. Like what else?

Like she has nothing left to prove. Well, I just get the feeling that this could be a good publicity move for. Right. We're talking about the retirement. Maybe Pena or Pettington wins the title. And then Nunes waits a year, maybe a year and a half, whatever. And says, you know what?

I want to come back and take you. again get another payday so the whole time she's out you know then it makes a bigger story now she gets the big news for the retirement the big news for the comeback makes the fight bigger coming back at her retirement so i don't know i just always wonder especially with someone you know goes out that high on top doing that well it's got to be hard to stay away man i don't know how they do it is there anyone is there anyone who is retired that you believe them because i'll be honest. Right. That's what I'm saying. Like most of that, I would say

98% of the time I don't believe it. Like, do some people stick to it? Yeah, Michael Biss being stuck to it. He retired, and he's not fought, and he's obviously never fighting again. He can't fight again. You know, some guys have stuck to it. But, yeah, by and large, but I get the, I'm saying this now, I get

the feeling that Amanda's really done, but, you know, it's MMA. Who knows? Like I said, I mean, she may look and say, hey, you know, we can't let this division go forward with these kind of fight. It's like, can you come back and please, like, you know, do this? We'll pay a couple million dollars and maybe she'll do it. I don't know. But I get the feeling she's done. But yeah, I mean, it's hard to take anybody at their word because no one ever stays gone

in the sport. It's like I hate it. I hate it also because, you know, generally when people come back, when they've gone out, like it generally doesn't go that well when they come back. Not always, but, you know, I would say the averages are against you. But yeah, no one ever stays gone, man. It's like, we call it as MMA retirement. It's like it's just the real thing. Like no one stays retired. Yeah, and it could be a good play on her part too, right? Like, Pinnington and

and Pena, like, they're not the kind of draw that Nunez is. So even if they go out and they win the title, one of them wins the title you know, six months a year down the road or whatever, the UFC's going to be calling Amanda like, dude, can you please come back? Like, we're not selling these pay-per-views, right? or maybe she calls the UFC

and says look you know you want me back I got a I got a price yeah she can negotiate a little more right it's funny I can't remember who I was talking to about this fire was talking like fire was telling me like you know like they were nearing the end of their career and they were just like you know I'm I'm getting there I'm getting to where I'm getting get retired

because like one thing I just can't do is like you know I'm not going to make this kind of money in one night like it's just impossible I'm not going to make 100 grand to do anything else. Like I can make a comfortable living doing other things. But like it's hard. And like when it's a certain kind of fight, like I had a conversation with Joe Lozon. I think Joe Lozon's got the right idea.

Joe Lozon is like, I'll come back and fight for the right fight and the right opportunity. But maybe I'll never fight again. He's not going to retire. He's not going to make a big to do about it. Like I'm retiring. I'm walking away. I'm hanging up the gloves. He's just like I just may never fight again.

Maybe I will, maybe I won't. Like, I don't know. Like, I'm just going to leave the door open. I like that attitude. I think that's better than like making the big, you know, I'm retiring and hanging up the gloves, leave them in the octagon. And then six months later, you're like, you know, I'm back. Yeah.

Yeah. And Lazon, you know, he's a great example. Like, dude's just a real martial artist, right? Like, you know he's in the gym all the time. He owns his own gym. He trains there all the time. So, yeah, the right opportunity comes up. He's not retired.

I think that's a very smart way to do. a very smart attitude. I'm kind of similar on that, right? Like, I don't, you know, maybe I'll fight again. Maybe not, but I want to, which speaking of, you interviewed Jim Miller earlier this week, and I know he had kind of, I don't like to even call out

because he didn't really call me out, but he mentioned my name and fighting me. So, um, no updates there, Damon. I didn't, I would have expected you when you said Jim Miller, I was like, I was like, and we talked about this, Matt. I was getting to that. So, let me be clear about this, Matt. Let me tell you the truth.

Jim Miller didn't call you out. I did it. I don't know if you know this or not. I did it. On that night of the fight, when Jim won, I did our post-fight show. We were just chit-chat and, like, talking about Jim and everything. And I was like, you know what?

Jim said he wanted to fight it well to it. I was like, you know what kind of fight would make a lot of sense. And it would kind of break my heart because, you know, obviously, you know, you know, our friendship and I've known Jim. Jim's a great dude. I don't know how well you know Jim, how much you met Jim. Great dude. Just all around great dude.

I was like, it kind of break my heart to see them fight each other, but I was like, that's the kind of fight they need. Jim Miller versus Matt Brown. So I put it out in the universe, and everyone freaked out and said, oh, my God, that's perfect. Let's do it. UFC 300.

So I mentioned it to Jim. And I said, Jim, I know you're not the callout guy, but I mentioned Matt Brown. And he's just like, yeah. He's like, that's the kind of fight I want. Like, that's the kind of fight. He's like, although that does. kind of feel perfect for UFC 300.

He's like, that sounds like a UFC 300 fight. And that's next March or April, depending on the timing, that's when it would be. And I was like, dude, that's the fight. You and Matt Brown at UFC 300 opening like the pay-per-view main card? How fucking awesome would that be?

And he's down. He loves it. He loved the idea. Well, I've always had a little bit of a, I don't know, frustration. I was a little bit, I wasn't that happy that I got skipped on for UFC 100 and then I got skipped on for UFC 200 so maybe UFC will let me come in on UFC 3 motherfucking hundred let's go Jim Miller

I love it I said I said it's the perfect matchup it's the all-time wins leader against the all-time knockout leader how could you not like how is that not a perfect story and listen I respect all the young guys out there you know I do obviously and I know you don't turn down fights you'll fight you fought young guys, you fought veterans. Like, but when they made you, when they booked the fight with with you in court, I was like, that's a good fight. Like, court's a old school, you know, been around, you know, good guy, you know, good fight. I like those fights. Like, I like the one, you know what mean, like those are the kind of fights I get up for. Like, and I wish again, I know we talked

about the Robbie Lawler thing. Like, I wish you could have run it back with Robbie. That would be the kind of fight I'd want, right? Jim Miller, you and Jim, like, that's just fucking awesome. Like, that is a fight to watch? Who is not, who is not going to want to watch Matt Brown and Jim Miller. Fuck it. Make his main event then. Let's go. UFC 300.

But if I wrong and thinking like that's the kind of, again, I know you're going to fight who they throw in front. I know you're not the guy to turn out and fights. But come on. Tell me that. Like, tell me you wouldn't get a little more up for Jim Miller than just like, here's, you know, Joe, you know, Joe Williams, the new guy with the contender series. You're going to fight him.

Jim Miller, like, that's a better. I'm not saying it's like, I'm not saying you wouldn't get up for, but I'm saying, like, you know, like, that's one's like, oh, this is, this is fucking cool. No, I know what you mean. Yeah, you know, it's nice to go in there when you have that much respect for the guy across from you, you know. And when you, you know, when you're sitting there thinking about the fight beforehand, when you, you know, when you're in training, lean up to the fight, doing interviews and, and especially, you know, a guy like Jim Miller where, you know, you're not going to have to deal with all the shit talk and,

you know, any stupid bullshit. It's like, you know, at the way ends or whatever, stare down. It's like, you know, it's not going to be a big show. Like you two are there for business and you two are going to throw down. And when you've seen a guy fight that many times, like a Jim Miller or like he's seen me fight so many times, you know, we know what we're going to do, right? Like we know what's coming. We know that we're both coming for war.

We're both coming for battle. We're both coming to hurt the other guy. And both of us have a lot of potential to do that. So, yeah, it's a fucking, it's a great idea. I think it's a great fight. and we're going to start calling you matchmaker Damon, I guess. I was going to say, tell Sean Shelby owes me a percentage for coming up with that one, because I was very proud of my matchmaking skills on that one.

Now, let me ask you this. I talked to Jim on the podcast last week, and he said that, like, you know, I timed it out, and I said UFC 300 will be around March or April. And I say March or April. It depends on if the UFC does another, like, two pay-per-view months between now and then. But that's what's going to average out to is about March or April of next year. Now, Jim said he wants to fight again this year. he doesn't want to sit out for the rest of the year.

He wants to get one more in this year and then fight March or April. But I said Matt Brown, he said, well, that, like, I love that fight. I want, that would be one I would get up for. That's exactly the kind of fight I want. Matt's a legend, blah, blah, blah. But he's like, that feels like UFC 300. Like, that's special. Like, that's one you just can't throw on a fight night card or, you know, whatever.

Like, that's a special fight. So let me ask you that question. Would you be will, I mean, I don't know. Do you want to fight again before then? Would you be able to know. Because I know you're not going to fight this summer. You've already said that. you want to take time up to the end of summer.

Would you want to wait for a Jim Miller? Would you want to get another one in fight Jim? I don't know. Like, what's the ideal scenario of Jim Miller's the guy? Yeah, that's a good question. I'm dealing with a lot of stuff. I'll be dealing with over the summer that once I get everything kind of taken care of on the personal side of life, business side of things.

I'll have a better answer for that. So honestly, like throughout the summer, I'm not even going to think about it. I might start training for a South Pole, though. But yeah, I'm not really thinking about it. I just can't. You know, it's one of those things that there's a lot of things that are out of my control at the moment. So if all the cards fall properly, everything goes the way that I wanted to.

I'll be fighting again this year. If things don't work out in my favor, the way exactly that I want, then it might take until next year. And if it is next year, wouldn't that be perfect, though? UFC 300, you and Jim Miller? Like, that's like, you couldn't write a better story. I can't think of better timing either, you know, like, get through the holidays and everything.

You know, everything changes when you have kids, especially when they're getting to the age of my kids. When they were younger, there were so much time that I missed with them, you know, just going out there. You know, I was trying to give the title.

You know, I was doing everything I could. And so, you know, I sacrificed a lot of time with them. They're at the age. I'm at the age where that's not such a thing anymore. So things like the holidays or, you know,

things like summer right now, like those things play a part in my, decision for when I'm going to fight. So like fighting, you know, January 5th or something. Like, I don't like that. You know what I mean? Now my holidays are going to be fucked with my kids. So something like a March, April actually makes a lot of sense.

Something like October, November would make a lot of sense. So, you know, there's only a few times throughout the year and now that make a lot of sense for me to fight. It's funny you say that because like that was in our conversation that with Joe Loz on. Like Joe's, Joe is basically like, I'm in a lot of. this position now where I don't have to fight. Like, I'm doing it because I want to fight. Like, I want to, you know what I mean? Like, I'm no longer in the position where, like,

if they call me and say, hey, we want you to fight October against this guy. And I'm like, you know what? I don't really want to fight in October. I got this going on. I got that going on. You know, I'm just, you know, I'm not, not interested, you know. And he's not in a position where, like, I have to do it. I have to climb the rankings. I have to do this. I have to do that. Obviously, the money's there. And that's always, that's always enticing. You know, always enticing. But I kind of feel like you and Jim, there are certain guys who, like,

in that same position. Like, you know, like, if Sean Shelby calls you right now, say, hey, I need you to fight in August, you're going to tell them, like, I'm not fighting right now. Like, I'm not, you know, I'm doing some of my kids. Or like you said, like they call you say, hey, we want you to fight December, December 28th. You know, that's, that's the holidays.

You're not going to do it. Like, you're in a position now where you're not going to be like, no, I just, it's not worth it to me to sacrifice that. You know what I mean? But, like, UFC 300, March, April? Yeah, yeah, like, that's perfect. Yeah, it actually is perfect. So for me with the UFC, I don't think they would mind me disclosing kind of the higher relationship is.

Like, Sean actually just tells me, you tell me when you want to fight and we'll find someone for that time. Now, based on that timing, who's available could change. You know what I mean? So like it might say, well, you know, this is the guy's available right here at this time. And, you know, they're all, you know, young up and comers or, you know, something like that. and, you know, the guys available at this time might be, you know, like a court McGee type guy or something, right? So, you know, that could play a role in those types of things.

But again, I've never been the type to look at the opponent really as much as, well, well, back in the day, it was just, you know, you tell me a date and a wait and I'll be there. But now, yeah, so now it's more like, look, these are the times that work for me. And, you know, let's put a guy in there across the cage and let's try to knock each other's teeth out. I think there's certain... I think when you're a veteran, you've been around and you've proven yourself like that, like, you've earned that. Like, that's not a...

I don't think that's a bad thing, right? That you have that kind of carte blanche a little bit with the promotion where he says, you tell me when you want to fight, and I'll get you something, you know what I mean? Like, you've earned that. And you've earned that right. Like, you've been... You fought the fights.

You've been around. When they called you, you stepped up when you needed to step up. You did the things, and you've done it for years. You got the most knockouts in UFC history, all these kind of things. So, like, the fact that you have that little bit of leeway, I think that says a lot about who you are. And I think you've earned that, right?

Like, that's not a knock. That's, you've absolutely earned that. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't knocking away. I just, you know, I'm not sure that the UFC likes people disclose him what their business practices. You know what I mean? Like some other fighter hear that and be like, oh, motherfuckers don't do it from me or whatever.

And then, you know, but my whole thing is I don't want to cause more stress for someone like Sean. He's always been real good to me. And, you know, some fighter calls him. And he's like, oh, you know you fucking do that for my brownie said you know like what the fuck and then shan's like god damn it would you just you know like he's got to deal with how many hundreds of fighters and like i just can't imagine the kind of bullshit they got to go through you know yeah we're all

fucking hassle i've never and i think that's why they appreciate that i think that's why people like me lazahn miller you know that's how we built that relationship because they're like finally a guy that's not giving me a fucking hassle about everything like we can ask him to fight and he says okay. Yeah, let me ask you this. I would never put you on the spot about your own career. But recently, after Jim won his last fight, he now has, he has the most wins in UFC history, I think 25, and I think he's a couple ahead of Arlovsky also fought the loss. So he's like, two ahead of Soroni. Soroni's done. He's two ahead of Arlovsky. Arlovsky lost his last fight. I think he's two ahead of everybody now, the most wins in UFC history. And Jim's been around forever,

you know, veteran never fought for a title, but he's been around forever. and been one of the top guys. Last week, Daniel Cormier, who I love, by the way, Daniel Cormier is my guy. He said he doesn't think longevity should get you in the UFC Hall of Fame. He doesn't believe Jim Miller is a UFC Hall of Fame. Now, I disagree. The UFC Hall of Fame is not a typical Hall of Fame.

It's not the Baseball Hall of Fame where you poll 1,000 coaches and riders and everyone votes on it and you get in or don't based on that. This is just UFC preferential. Like, they're just, they're picking who they want to be. in the Hall of Fame. And most of the people in the Hall of Fame make sense. You know, Khabib, Kornay, Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz, you know, all the legends. Like, okay, that's easy.

Like, those are easy choices to get in the Hall of Fame. This year, Donald Seroni's going in. And some people would say, well, Donald Serroney doesn't really deserve to go in. He was, I mean, yeah, he fought for a title a couple of times, but he was never that guy, never became a champion. You know, he's kind of, you know, he was the guy who stayed active, fought a lot, all those kind of things. But whatever, I disagree.

Company guy fought his ass off. And again, I don't know why anyone really cares about this. But, like, D.C., who I love, said, I don't think longevity gets you in. I said, listen, Jim Miller already has the record for the most wins in UFC history. He's not done yet. Maybe he extends that record. But if he retires as a guy with the most wins in the UFC history, and it's going to be, I mean, obviously Arlowski could potentially pass him. But Arlowski's like 45 or 46, so he ain't going to be around that much longer.

Anyone else is going to have to take a little while to get there. Like, to me, Jim Miller's a Hall of Famer. Am I wrong? Am I like, I, I know maybe it doesn't even matter, but I'm like, dude, that's a Hall of Fame to me. Like, when you have the most wins in UFC history, that matters. Yeah, I don't know what the standard is for the UFC Hall of Fame, you know. There is no standard.

That's the thing. There is no standard. Yeah, it's a little bit preferential. And, you know, I'm guessing a D.C. I mean, I'm guessing that he's on the notion that you have to be a UFC champion to be worthy of the Hall of Fame. And, you know, I don't necessarily believe that. But, you know, I get, you know, for things like that, I just, I think there should be sort of a criteria, you know.

And there's not one. So, you know, a guy like Jim Miller who's been doing it for so long, doing it for so well for so long. And I think maybe even there's a little piece of us that, like, we know his story, like with the Lyme disease and everything. And, you know, the way he fought through that and was still winning and still kicking ass, man, like, you know, probably gives it a little bit more,

you know, preferential treatment for that. So, you know, I don't know, but, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with having maybe, what they call it, like a wing of the UFC. You know, these guys were not a Hall of Fame, you know, were like, these guys were not champions, but they fucking deserve a name on the wall to be remembered by. Yeah, like, I don't have a problem

they're going to Soroni. Like, I don't have a problem with that. Like, Soroni put in his work. He was a round, put on entertaining fights. Won a lot. He was the guy with the most wins in UFC history until recently, obviously, when Jim passed him and, you know, beat him up. But, like, yeah, I don't, I don't, I just, I don't know.

I think it's weird to, like, be protected. I don't, and this is not, like, D.C., like, I think he's a bad guy for saying it. And I get what he's saying. But there's no standard as it is. If there was a standard, we should have had that at the beginning. There is no standard. So, you know, like you said,

Joe Miller's a guy's been around. Like, honor that dude. That's the kind of guy you do honor. Like, he's been, and he has, dude, those fights he had with Lowe's on were legendary. He's had some crazy,

he's probably Dustin Poria a couple years ago was freaking awesome. Like, he puts on battles, man, he puts on good fights. He's always entertained. He's got a huge finishing rate.

You know, and like I said, he's not done yet. Maybe when he does retire, he's got like 30 UFC wins and maybe no one will touch that for years. How could you not want to put that guy in the Hall of Fame? Yeah,

I'm kind of with you. Like I said, I think, you know, I don't know shit about any Hall of Fame, to be honest. So it's hard for me to have an opinion on because I don't know how other Hall of Fame's work. I don't know what you got to do to get into them. But I'm guessing like a baseball Hall of Fame, like you don't have to win the Super Bowl to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame, right?

Yeah. Or the World Series or whatever, right? You don't have to win that to be in the Hall of Fame, right? Yeah, correct. you know so I'm guessing that's what Daniel Cormey is getting at right is he's basically saying you got to be a champion you know you got to have a belt to get into the Hall of Fame it's what it sounds like to me yeah and I disagree I don't think that's I don't think that's true I think again like yeah there's got to be a standard in terms of like you can't put everybody in and I you know I certainly wouldn't but like Jim Miller much like Donald Soroni that's a guy you put in like that's a guy who's put in his brother put his awesome line for that if you look at like criteria like why would longevity not be a part of the criteria like this is a hard fucking sport to have longevity in right and it's not like he was you know longevity um i don't know like like not doing anything you know like he's got the most wins too so you know it's not like he just simply wasn't doing anything

the whole time so you know like what is the criteria he's talking about you know if it's um if his personal criteria is, and I love DC too, you know, I'm not knocking him, you know, he's got, he's entitled to his own opinion, but like if your criteria is going to be that you have to be a champion to get in, well, that's going to exclude a lot of guys that probably deserve to get in. Yeah, I agree. I totally agree. And I like what you just said there. Longevity is a criteria to me.

Like, dude, you know how hard is to be in the UFC for 15 years, I think is how long he's been in the UFC? see how long, how hard that is. You know, you know, it's not, that's what I'm saying.

Like, you don't do that. Was he in 2008 also? I think that's when he got in also. I think he got in right around the same time. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing.

Yeah, but like thinking about that. Like, how many people, how many people, look at the list of people who were fighting in 2007, 2008 in the UFC who are still in the UFC. I mean,

I can't think of very many. Was it like five? Was it like you, him, Lozon? Like, there's like five people. Yeah,

Clay Guida. Yeah God, who else? I don't know. Robbie is still around. He's got one more fight left, but he's still around, you know, like that kind of thing. Well, Arlowski, he was actually out of the UFC for a while, right? And Robbie was too.

Robbie left for a while too. Yeah. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like longevity. Like, I used to have this conversation all the time with Frank Meir before he kind of got, you know, when he kind of got done, like, he was like 15 or 16 years in. I was like, like, dude, like, do you realize how rare it is to, like, be in this sport for this long at this level?

just being in the UFC for this long. Like you know as well as I do, most guys, like, if they spend five years in the UFC, it's a big deal, right? Like imagine it's been 15 years to UFC. Right. I mean, it seems to me that the Hall of Fame

would be reserved. Like the criteria, you know, it doesn't have to be necessarily like a on paper written down. This is the exact criteria. But you have to do something extraordinary. Longevity is an extraordinary feat, right? To have longevity in the sport.

I mean, I mean, we got to be in the 0.1% of, of, uh, MMA fighters that have been through the UFC. How many thousands and thousands have been through the UFC at this point. Yeah. And also, let's not forget you don't get to stick around for 15 years if you're like two and 17. You know what I mean? Right. Like, you have like legit records.

Like you have the most knockouts in UFC history. He has the most wins. It's not like you didn't. It's not you stuck around. They let you stick around with like a five and 15 record. Like you have a legit record. you have made records, you broke records. Like that goes along with the longevity.

Like that's why you have the longevity is because you have most knockouts. He has most wins. Like that's those are huge career achievements and you don't get those like just being in the UFC. Like you have to do special things to do that. Like Jim Miller has 25 wins in the UFC. That's a ridiculous number of wins and the biggest organization in the world. If he was like 10 and 25, you wouldn't be in the UFC anymore. Right, right.

It's not like Sam Alvey longevity, right? It's like, you know, you're doing, again, you're doing something extraordinary. It is extraordinary. Not to Tute Monhorn, you know, but to be in there for 15 years, that's a fucking extraordinary feat. You know, it'd be cool. You know, you'd be cool. The UFC Hall of Fame fight, Matt Brown versus Jim Miller. That would be like a way to sell that one right there, the Hall of Fame fight.

Like the winner gets to the Hall of Fame? Yeah, there's automatic induction. all right i like it i like it or we just do like you know the loser has to retire or you know i just dude i don't know what it is man when i said that like in passing that night i was like oh my god i just did like my best bit of matchmaking ever like i kind of hate it because you and jim are both great dudes and like you know it's gonna break my heart that's you know somebody's got losing that fight but dude that's the fight man that's the one like soon as i said i was like oh my god that's well because i again i know you well and

to know that you're going to fight, you know, when the Times write, all the things we just talked about. But, like, Cort McGee, that was fun. When you got Robbie Lawler, that was fun. Carlos Cond did, like, those legendary kind of fights, there's only so many of those guys still around. You and Jim Miller's the kind of fight. Like, don't get me wrong. If they match you up with a really fun Welterway fight and there's another guy out there, sure, it'll be fun. But you and Jim Miller, like, that's a legendary fight. Like, that's the kind of fight you remember. That's the kind of fight you write home about. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's, I think that's the kind of fight you and Jim both deserve.

Yeah, well, I'm cool with it. Let's go. That's what Jim said. Jim's like, Matt Brown's the kind of guy who scares you. And that's the kind of guy who gets you up in the morning when you're like getting up to train. Like, you're like, I don't want to get up. Fuck, I got to fight Matt Brown. Yes, I am getting up to train. Like, that's, he's like, he's the kind of guy that scares you. I love that attitude, though, right? Like, that's the kind of attitude you got to have. Well, Jim Miller is not a non-scary guy himself.

Yeah, so I think it makes for a great fight. I mean, he looked tremendous the other day. So, yeah, let's go, man. I'm down for it. Tell Sean Shelby, you can take the day off. I just did his job for him. Yeah, I like it. I think, yeah, Sean would be all about it.

I think it's pretty simple, right? Like, I don't know how you can say no to it. Like, two guys call you and say, hey, we want to fight them this date. All right. And UFC 300. How could it get more awesome? You said, you missed out in 100, you missed out in 200. Let's go UFC 300.

How could that not be cool? Yeah, I dig it, bro. See? That's what I said. Look for my percentage now for doing a little matchmaking. All right, folks. We're going to get out of here. Obviously, we'll be back next week.

Schedule slowing down a little bit. We got Marvin Vittorring and Jared Cannon here this weekend. We got the UFC on ABC next weekend with Josh Emmett and Ilya Teporia, leading in the international fight week coming up in a few weeks with, of course, Alexander Volcanowski taking on Yaya Rodriguez and Brandon Moreno against Alashondre Pantosia. So we'll talk about those coming up in a couple weeks. Matt, where can people find you, support you, people to support you, where can they find that for you? You know, social media, bro, at I am the immortal.

Also, you can check out the immortal coffee on social media also, and that is at the immortal coffee. Pretty simple, right? And we also I need you. So you're trying to try to talk while I read off the code, which should be pretty goddamn simple. The code for Immortal Coffee,

if you want to say 15% type in code Immortal with a capital I for 15% off all products, including shirts and coffee. All things coffee. It'll put hair on your chest. That's the, that's the Immortal Coffee brand.

It'll put hair on your chest. Well, if you want hair on the chest, it'll put hair on the chest if you don't want it, then you can still drink it. It's a mortal coffee. It's a mortal coffee. We're going to have to get you some shirts to wear during the podcast because you don't drink coffee. Yeah, your boy, your nutritionist said he was going to teach me how to drink coffee. He's yet to come through for me on that, though.

He said, because he told me, he's like, I didn't used to drink coffee. Now I do. I was like, all right, I'm willing to try. He just never, he never got back to me about hooking up on how to drink coffee. So if he gets back with me, I'll try it again. But yeah, give me a t-shirt. I'll rock a t-shirt all the time. Let's go, bro.

You know what I still, you know. You know what I said. I know a place about 15 minutes from here where you can go get a t-shirt. That's true. That's true. I was actually right by, it's so funny, I was actually right by your gym about two. It was at night, so you were closed. I didn't come up there when you're open, but I was up there going up to,

up in a pal getting some uh i care what's up there for us getting some getting dinner or something i was like oh yeah i matched him was like right over there so yeah i need to come up there and uh and do that and get me an immortal coffee shirt and support the immortal coffee brand and i'm still willing to try the coffee i may not be a big coffee drinker but i'm always willing to try new things all right let's go bro let's get it i love it i love it all right folks we're going to get out of here we appreciate everyone tuning in each and every week the fighter versus the rider we'll be back next week with more show. Obviously, check us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

and of course over on the best website in the world. Mammating.com for Matt Brown. I am Damon and Martin. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for soon then. We'll see you then.