MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer Reacts to Dricus du Plessis Winning, Where Does Israel Adesanya Go From Here Plus the Latest on Conor McGregor

Episode Date: August 20, 2024

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to Dricus du Plessis cementing his status as champion with a definitive win at UFC 305, where does Israel Adesanya go after another loss and what does the future hold for Michael Chandler now that his fight against Conor McGregor has been delayed again. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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like your small business. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at dejjardin.com slash business coverage. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the fighter versus the right. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we are back from another big pay-per-view weekend. We didn't actually get to do predictions on this one because you were off last week, but I actually did my prediction. I got to say, I did it right. I picked it right. I picked it by decision. He ended up choking out Izzy and his fourth round. But that happened. You were out in LA. You get to watch the dude. I'm so jealous. You get to watch the fights in a movie theater. I've always wanted to do that. I've never gotten to do it.

Yeah, I really enjoyed it, too. I might do it more. often. Hopefully they show them around here. That's a really cool experience, man. Anybody listen? If you get a chance, you should definitely do it. It's worth it, I think. Yeah, they always do them. I think they do it. I know they do them in Columbus. I just, because I work the events, I never get to go, but I'm always like, man, that seems like to be a really cool experience because I've been to a million UFC events, sitting cage side. That's definitely a special experience. But I was like, man, it'd be cool because I love going to the theater. And I was like, God, that'd be cool to see the fights on a big screen like that.

Yeah, man. You get to chill in a comfortable seat like we're just talking about, right? When you're at the bar, you know, you got all the noise, all the people, everybody wanted to talk to you. And, you know, at the movie theater, it wasn't like we were just quiet the whole time like you're watching a movie. I mean, you know, you're talking and, you know, people are clapping and cheering for their fighters and stuff. But it's peaceful enough that you can enjoy the fights. It's just a really good experience all around. It's just, you know, you got to pay a little bit of a premium for your food. And, you know, I think it was $25 for the ticket.

Not that bad. Yeah, I mean, considering the pay me is $80. I mean, that's still a lot cheaper to pay for you. Yeah, yeah, except if I bring all my kids, then it adds up real quick, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's where you get the cost. That's where it adds up to the cost. But still, yeah, it sounds like a good thing. That's true.

Everything's more. Just having kids, man. That's just the way it goes. Everything, you become broke when you have kids, basically. The worst part is, like, when they're younger, you can do the, like, kids get in for free thing when they're so little, you know what I mean? When they get to, when you get to your kids, you can't fool them like that anymore.

You're like, yes, they're really young. They're not that old. Like, yeah, we totally get every free. Yeah, yeah, especially, yeah, because it's always like 12 and under eats for free, gets in for free. These little fuckers are 13 now, you know? I just tell them that you're 12.

They're like, but we're teenagers. Yeah, kids don't play along. You're like, come on, kids lie. Come on, help dad out here. They have before, though. They're pretty good about it. They've definitely helped me out in some situations. I love it.

I love it. So, yeah, UFC 305 went down over the weekend. Listen, I know you are a big easy guy. I like easy too. We've both, you know, been very honest in picking him in the past. And I don't know going into this, there was just something about the matchup, the run that Dracus is on. I think Dracus has kind of become my new, I keep picking against him guy,

so I finally just learn my lesson and stop picking against him. Because like, on paper, and I think you'd probably agree with me, Matt, on paper, Dracus doesn't do anything like spectacularly well. You don't look at him and say, man, this guy is an elite strikers. This guy's an elite wrestler. He's an elite grappler. He's an elite this or that. He's just durable, tough, comes forward, hits hard, and he's just a hard guy to fight. Like, I don't know a better way.

Like, technically speaking, he shouldn't be able to stand and trade with. the guy like Israel out of Sanya, but he did. And he won a lot of those exchanges. It's remarkable. That's why I said, like, I just had to stop picking against him because I think I picked against him in like every fight lead. I did pick him to beat Strickland, but I think that's the last, like, I think that's like the first time I'd ever picked him to win. And that was probably his closest fight in recent times.

Yeah, but it's just like, but I'm not wrong in thinking that like, technically speaking, he's not like the guy, he's not elite. You don't look at him and say, man, this guy's just like this elite. whatever, he just finds a way to get it done. As I say, well, you know what he's elite at? It's fucking winning, right? And if there's one thing we've learned about this sport, and I teach you at my gym all the time,

there's no right way to do things. That's just what it comes down to. Like, I know for the longest time when I started, you know, really teaching a lot, I'm like, dude, throw it like this, you know, step right here, do this. And you watch these guys, like Strickland does everything wrong.

You know, it looks like we thought he was going to, kill him. Like, Dreykis does everything wrong on paper. And then you come to realize, like, there is no right or wrong way. It's like, does it work or does it not? You know what's right is when you hit a guy in the face. That means it was the right way to do it, right? And Drakis, yeah, he just finds a way to get it done. He's a lead at winning. And, you know, he's just got, I think for one thing is like, he's a hard guy to game playing against, right? It reminds me a little bit of like Yuri Prasca, who's even, you know, more of that type of guy. It's hard to game playing against.

But it's like, what do you, Dracus is good enough at everything that it's hard to beat him anywhere. But he doesn't do it well enough that you think he's going to win that way. Does that make sense? No, it totally does. It totally, and I think that's the thing that's like so, like, it's hard to understand about him, but at the same time he just finds a way because, like,

in that private, Izzy, there were, again, there were moments where Izzy was getting the better him on the feet. And I'm like, man, he's starting to find his range. He's starting to find his range, starting to land some strikes. Then out of nowhere, Dracus clubs him with a big shot or gets to take that. He just does things enough to keep you off balance. And it's like he's never out of the fight. Like, you can't, like, there were rounds that were Izzy rounds that I was scoring for Izzy.

And then Dracus just lands a couple of big, hard shots. And again, the name of the game is damage. It's not hitting a guy 30 times. It's hitting a guy twice and nearly knocking him down. Like damage counts. So Izzy would be up, Izzy'd be doing well, and then Dracus would blast him with a couple of big punches or a big kick. He had that left kick going early in the fight just coming out of nowhere.

And I was just like, this guy just finds a way to win. And even like the close rounds, I was giving him some of the closer rounds because the name of the game is damage. It's offensive damage. And even though Izzy was hitting him 10, 20 times, those three or four big shots to Dracus, because he would, and you know how this works, Matt? Like, we always talk about damage isn't,

we hate the idea that damage just cuts and blood. But damage to me is when you see a guy like retreat from a shot, he gets hit and he has to back off or he gets hit and you see him wobble a little bit, you see him and get hit me, no to make. That, I saw that happen numerous times with Izzy, and that to me was the difference. Like, Dracus doesn't throw the cleanest jab.

He doesn't throw the prototypical hook when you're in there. He doesn't throw these beautiful combinations. but then he just finds a way that there's some awkward looking shot and he clubs Izzy with it and he wobbles him a little bit and that's the difference in winning or losing a round and as it turned out that fourth round Matt

he was getting beat he was getting kind of pieced up a little bit and then out of nowhere he hits him wobbles him a little bit and just rushes four bam bam bam bam hits with a bunch of right hands absolutely wobbles him takes him down chokes him out that's Dracus duplice that's how he fights

It's amazing. And he has so many of, I think we underrate or understate the importance of those intangibles that you cannot teach, the toughness, the durability, the strength, the fortitude, the willingness to keep fighting, just the will to win overall, just simply the will to win. Like, Dracus is going to keep coming the whole time. Like, you have to stop that guy. That's the only way you can do it. And the complicated thing here or the X-Factor here is like, dude, Izzy looked good.

Izzy didn't, when he fought Strickland, I think there was a pretty large amount of people arguing. Like, look, Izzy just didn't look good. He didn't look himself. He didn't fight well. Like, he looked good against Dracus. He looked in shape. He looked strong. He did a lot of right things.

He was winning, like he said, a lot of the exchanges. He was getting up. He was stopping takedowns. Like everything was going his way. And personally, I had him ahead on the scorecards. I don't remember exactly what the rounds were that I had him on, whatever. But I had him ahead on the scorecards. I remember that.

And Drake has found a fucking way. And that's what, that's the intangibles you cannot teach that are maybe a little bit underrated, that we don't talk about enough. We talk about, you know, how technical a guy is, how fast he is, you know, all these paper things, you can't teach Dracus. You can't teach that style. You can't teach to just win. And that's what he did.

This is a weird comparison, but I know you've kind of gotten into football these last couple years in a little bit of a way. How in the world are you making this comparison? I'm making the comparison. It's a little bit like Patrick Mahomes on the Chiefs because when you look at Patrick Mahomes, he doesn't do everything a typical quarterback would do where you stand in the pocket and launch the ball downfield. He doesn't, he's not what you would call an athletic running quarterback where he's just got like this skill where he can just beat you with his legs.

He just does things off tempo out of nowhere and he just slices and dices you up. He finds a way. It's not always pretty. It's not always like, you know, I mean, yes, he's got a rocket for an arm and things like that. But there's just certain things he does where he gets outside the pocket, he scrambles, he gets away from a guy. And then somehow in like the third option in a play, he'll get a big touchdown or he'll get a big pass down field. And you're like, how in the hell? Like, I've watched him play the Bengals enough times to see him make plays.

And I'm just like, I'm like screaming at our defenders to tackle him. And he just keeps getting away and scrambling. And then like, you know, 10 seconds, which is way longer than you should ever have the ball as a quarterback. He chucks it downfield and gets a completion. I'm like, what is going on? How does this guy keep doing that? And then last year, maybe you saw this. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's a great comparison because all those things you can't teach a guy. Yeah. You can't write that on paper and give him a training protocol. This is how to practice for that. And it's the same with Dracus. It was funny because last year I think it was the AFC championship game or the Super Bowl. They caught Patrick Mahomes in the locker room and they caught her joke it with me at a dad bod because he like didn't,

he wasn't like ripped or anything. And he got people started joking with him. And I'm like, that's the definition of what this guy is because he's not this super athlete where he's like ripped and shredded and just like he looks like the, you know, he looks like a superhuman. No, he's just, he just looks like a dude who can play fucking football. Now, obviously, Drancas looks, you know, he's beefed up and, you know, he's a big dude. But, like, again, you shouldn't be able to stand with Israel out of sign. No one outside of maybe Alex Prayer and a couple other people should be able to literally just stand with Israel out of Sanya.

He did. And, I mean, did he win by takedown? Did he win by choke? Yeah, he did. But he was doing well enough on the feet. After he heard of it. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's remarkable the way this guy just finds a way to pull it off.

Like you said, you're absolutely right. He may not be elite at striking, elite at grappling, elite at wrestling, he's elite at winning. And sometimes that matters more. He finds a way to win. It's like watching, you know, when early on his career, everyone said he had these cardio problems. We had that nose problem. He finally got to surgery. He would look gassed.

He looked like he was gassed on Saturday night. He was labored his movement. His hands were down a couple times. I'm like, man, he's running out of gas. Out of nowhere, clubs Israel hurts him. Surges more. It's just, I'm done doubting the guy. And also, Matt, I know this has to be, I know you know this, but I have to point this out.

His last, he has a knockout over Robert Whitaker, a win over Sean Strickland, again, close five, but a winner of Sean Strickland. And a submission, the first guy ever to submit Israel out of Sonia. Those are three wins. Like, he already, like, I'm not saying he's already like one of the greatest middleways of all time, but in the current crop of middleways, that's a ridiculous resume. That is very good. Yeah, he's definitely up at the top. And he deserves it. He earned every bit of it.

Like, I don't think any of us were picking him to beat Robert Whitaker. Well, we're all kind of like, man, what are they doing? Like, here's a, you're sacrificing a contender that, you know, they got this rivalry over Africa. What are you doing, throwing him to Whitaker? And then he goes out there, knocks out Whitaker. I always, I couldn't help but wonder while I'm watching Dracus fight, what does it like to be his coach? Like, what do you tell him to do? he's like he's so unpredictable with what he's going to do too he it's not it looks like they

have no game plan ever they're like bro he's just going to figure it out while he's in there and get it done you know sort of like to your patrick mahomes analogy it's like you know do we just run a play and let him figure it out you know it's like that's what you're doing with dracus like like dude just run it just go do it um personally i would love to see them fight again And maybe that's the Izzy fan in me because I love Izzy. I've loved him for a long time. I've known him for a long time before he was in the UFC and such a fan of him. And I don't know if that's my bias or if he earned it.

I certainly thought that when he first lost the prayer, we had this conversation. I said, look, yeah, he deserves a rematch. He got it and went in there and did what he did. On this one, like I could see an argument from not having a rematch, but I want to see it. Well, and I think, I think, you know, really what we're seeing here is, like, there's a couple of really elite middleweights right now. You got Dracus. I think Israel is in that conversation. Listen, I don't, it's tough to acknowledge it, but it's true.

You can't ignore Sean Strickland what he's been doing. And then you got Robert Whitaker. And, you know, Robert Whitaker's got a big fight coming up in October against Hamzot. You know, you can say what you want about Hamzot. I've kind of fallen a little bit off that bandwagon a little bit just because he's been injured and sick and he hasn't fought. And it's hard to, and his last win was a win at middleweight over a welter. to win Kumar Usman. Like, I'm just not ready to anoint this guy, the, the savior, the division anymore

until he goes out. If he goes out and beats Robert Whitaker, then I'll jump back on board. But I don't know that he will be Robert Whitaker. And if Robert Whitaker wins, like, because that's the weird thing about where Dracus is at right now. He has a definitive win over Robert Whitaker. He has a definitive win over Israel. Everyone's saying Strickland's probably the guy.

I'll be honest, like, I'm not against it totally, but they just fought in January. I just have a weird thing about like these super, super early. rematches. Again, I'm not saying Strickland doesn't deserve it. I'm certainly not saying that Dracus would avoid it. I'm just saying we just saw in January. I just like to see, again, but if Robert Whitaker beats the brakes off, Homs out, then I think Strickland's kind of got to be the guy because he already knocked out Whitaker, and Whitaker's had a lot of bites of that apple of being champion with a couple of fights with Izzy, and obviously he was the champion for a while. I think if Whitaker wins, that helps Strickland. But if Homsack goes out there and just absolutely obliterates

Robert Whitaker or beats him, I see a real world where Hamzog gets a title shot over Strickland, not because he deserves it, because Hamzot's a name, you know what I mean? Yeah, he's a name and he is projected to be the next guy too. I thought that they would probably be calling for Nasrudeen and Malov. Like, I mean, that seemed to me like the, you know, he just hasn't went through the gauntlet that the other guys have kind of went through, right? The Robert Whitaker. Robert Whitaker is kind of the, look, I don't want to diminish who he is because he's amazing,

and I think in a lot of errors, he would be champion, but at this point, I mean, he is kind of the contender gatekeeper, right? Like, you have to get through Robert Whitaker to get to the title. And I think that's exactly why they made the Hamzot match, right? It justifies a title fight if Hamzot wins. And it's unfortunate to say that about Robert Whitaker. I love that guy, too. And, you know, I think, again, in most errors, like he's probably a champion and he's just in the just in that time right um with that said like if they gave it to him above i wouldn't be mad i mean imovs got brittenden allen in september i think he's got a chance to yeah yeah yeah they're fighting in september and that's a big fight he beats

and britton's on a big win streak right now if he wins that one i think he's in that conversation i i think that while i know dana said strickland's the guy we all know dana says a lot of things doesn't mean it's going to happen. And Drake has just fought. It's August. I don't think they're going to rebook him any time in the next couple of months. I think they're going to wait until Hamzlaught fights Whitaker. If Hamzlai goes out there and demolishes Whitaker, which I don't know that he will, to be honestly.

I think there's a very, very good chance Whitaker beats him. But if he does, if he goes out there and beats him, then I think there's a world where they're like, hey, Hamzlaat and Dracus, that's a big fight. Let's take it to South Africa because they want to do a card in South Africa. I know Comsad has some travel problems Putting him down in South Africa Would solve that where he went in to come to the United States I think there's a world where that happens

Is that better or worse for Sean Strickland? I mean, I don't know I mean, Sean's had one fight since he lost to Drake Because he beat Paulo Costa and he beat him He did beat him It wasn't like he was a close fight he beat him But I don't know I just I feel like we just get too repetitive

With these rematches like I understand He's ranked and I understand It was a close fight And he did take it to a split decision to where it was. I'm not faulting show stricken like that. I just, I don't know. To me, and also, you know, Sean had just won the belt. It wasn't like Sean was like a three-time defending champion and he beat him.

He had not defended the title one time. I just, to me, it's like if you lose, even if it's a site, unless it's like, remember back of the day when Shogun lost to Machita and everyone was like, how did you score that fight for Machita? Yeah. And they rematch it immediately and then Shogun beats him. If it was one of those situations, maybe I'd argue differently. But it was just a close fight.

I think I scored Drake as winning. It was a close fight, but I scored Drake as winning. To me, I just like to see Sean get one more. Get Costa. I don't think Costa is really the same guy he once was. One more. I think he should totally be rematch with Strickland and Izzy. If Izzy's not going to get the rematch.

You know, again, I'm a fan of Izzy. He'd love to see him get the rematch just as a personal thing, not really, you know, necessarily that he should. but I think that's a thousand percent the match to make. Give them the rematch and let's see if Izzy is back to his old self, so to speak, you know, or if that was a fluke when he lost to Sean Strickland, you know, give him a chance to prove that it was, give Sean Strickland to prove that it wasn't,

and the winner can fight whoever ends up fighting for having the title at that time. I think that's the perfect scenario. I was going to ask you anyway, so let's just go and get into, you know, where does Izzy go from here? because while you're at, you're absolutely right. I don't think there's a world where he can't get back to Dracus. I think he absolutely can. But he is in a bit of an awkward situation because he lost Strickland,

you know, pretty one side of fashion, weird performance, weird night at the office for him. And he goes down and gets choked out by Dracus. I don't think anyone's going to argue he should get an immediate rematch. No, I'm not saying that. I don't think you're saying that either. But 35, you know, he's in a situation. He's also a superstar. Got a lot of money.

You know, like, I actually, going into the fight, I had question. And I was like, man, if he loses, does he put down the gloves and, like, you know, say, you know what? You know, peace out. You know, thanks for the cheddar and I'm out of here. Like, I thought there was a real world where that could happen. Didn't happen. He said, I'm not going anywhere, which I appreciated that. He said that.

And he's like, I'll be back. Because, again, he looked good in the fight. He didn't just get beat. He looked good in the fight. But I think the Strickland rematches way because I think two sides of that Strickland fight. One, I think Izzy did look weird. It was an off night. but also I think he just totally underestimated Strickland.

I think he was coming up to high of the Pereira fight. He just knocked out his greatest rival. And then he's just like, oh, this is just a speed bump. I got to get through to get to Dracus. That's the fight everyone wants. And then Strickland, that was the end-all-be-all for Strickland. That was Strickland's one opportunity. That was his, you know, that was his eminent moment.

You got one shot. That was his moment. And he made the most of it. But I agree, I think a rematch. Because if Strickland does it again, then, you know, no doubt. And if Izzy can beat him, then kind of vanquished that demon a little bit. So I think that really is the perfect match-o. But did you hear-

And we also have the, I think we all, I've never heard people talk about it, but I've had the question, like, you know, Izzy is 35? He's got a lot of miles on him from kickboxing and MMA. And, you know, is his peak just ending? You know, is that what happened over the weekend? Is his peak just in? You know, just like when he fought Strickland, I think, you know, Maybe he just had an off night, but maybe he's slowing down too.

And maybe five years ago, that was an easy fight for him. And he's just not in peak form anymore. The way he looked against Dracus, I thought he looked really good. But that could have been him still slowing down a bit. I mean, I thought his defense didn't look as good as it had in the past, which is the, oh, excuse me. Which was kind of the unique thing because usually the defense isn't necessary. You know, he relies so much on. reactions. You know, he's not necessarily like a hands tight, high guard, you know, really

defensive guy in that sense, really technical. But, you know, he kind of relies a lot on reactions. And when those start slowing down, that's when guys like Drake is start hitting you. That's when guys like Strickland start hitting you a lot more. And if he's slowing down a little bit, you know, maybe his time is up. But he's got to find out with Strickland, I think. I think that's a great observation. I was going to ask you because you're Right. Like, this isn't, certainly not meaning to diminish Sean Strickland and or Dracus's win. But if, you know, the difference between being the best middleweight in the world and just being the number two guy, there's a gap there. And there are some guys who can get close to the title who just never quite become champions.

We've had that a million times over. There's a million examples of that in this sport. And you know as well as I do, Matt, this sport is a game of inches or in this sport maybe it's a game of seconds where, like you said, you got a half second slower reaction time than your opponent and you get hit and you can't hit him at the same time, then you'll lose. And I think Izzy looked great on Saturday night. But you're absolutely right. You can't not ask the question. Would he have gotten hit with those shots from Dracus four years ago, three years ago?

Has he lost just that split second of timing that makes the difference between getting hit or not getting hit? You're absolutely right. I'm not saying he's losing his step. I'm saying you have to ask that question. You have to ask it because, look, when we say he looked great, he looked great offensively. Defensively, I've seen some things in Izzy that I've never really remember, at least seeing before it, like turning his back. You're like running towards the cage, turning his back, running away. And he's not, it's not like completely abnormal for him.

Like he does, you know, he goes against the cage and moves his feet really well. But, you know, there was a couple times where I was like, ah, it's not really. I don't think that's what Izzy wants to be doing right now you know what I mean like he's kind of doing it just because you know he's getting hit more than he should be getting hit

and Drinkus isn't a fast guy you know when you look at like when he fought Kelvin Gastlam you know the two of them traded a lot of really hard exchanges you know Izzy took the shots and he wasn't like turning his back he wasn't run away or anything you know and Gaslam certainly faster

than Dracus, right? Not knock on either guy. You know, they have different styles. But, so that's where I question. Like, you know, is his defense slowing down? He's a very reactionary fighter and maybe his time is coming to an end. Well, and that's also, you got to remember the style of it. You know, like a guy like, you know, what Bilal Muhammad did remarkably being Leon Edwards.

Like he's 37, I think. And so like that's our 36, which we've talked about that before, you know, generally speaking, there's not been a lot of champions over the age of 35. but Bilal's style is so pressure heavy, wrestling, take you down, grind on you, that him, and he's not slowing down, I'm not saying he is, he's the freaking champ of the world, but I'm saying like his style is built for a certain style. Izzy is all about timing and speed and accuracy. And that loss of that, even a split second of that, means the difference between, as you said,

getting hit or not getting hit, you know, defensively, you know, would he have been able to avoid those shots from Dracus two years ago, three years ago? these are questions that have to be asked. I know we're not, we're neither, I want to be clear with neither one of us for saying the easy is done or anything crazy like that.

But you can't not ask that question after that kind of a fight after the Strickland fight. Maybe it's just, because again, you know how this sport works, man. We always talk about the sport.

The drop off is, is fast and it's cruel. Like that's the reality. And I'm not saying that is, I'm not saying that is the answer either. It won't be clear about that. I'm not saying that is what's happening. I'm saying I haven't heard anybody

asked that question and it should be being asked. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, I think you're absolutely like, you can't not ask the question because I don't, like I said, I certainly am not taken away from Dracus. It's why. Dracus won the fight and did so convincingly

and he deserved the win. But yeah, and again, like I said, Izzy's entire style is built around timing, speed, accuracy, and when that goes, it doesn't go away, but I'm saying, like when it slows down that little half second,

you know, his, the difference is him going boom boom with a left right or a big jab and then getting out of the way of the counter versus slipping that jab and not getting out of way quite as quickly, the reaction time, and that's where Drake has hits him with the big shot. I'm just saying, like, you're absolutely right. Like, we can't not say that. And that's why I think the Strickland rematch is a perfect example, because Strickland, Strickland, Strickland's the same dude. Strickland rarely ever fights anyone different. Strickland shells up, gives you very little to hit, and he just comes forward and hit. you with, you know, death by a thousand cuts.

He's not the guy typically was going to go out there and knock you out, although he did get close on Izzy in that first round, but he's not the guy who's going to go out there, blast you with one or two punches and put you away. He's going to, again, he's going to just chip at you, chip at you, chip at you, for five rounds, annoyingly just beat on you, the middle-way D as in a way,

and then he wins the fight. I agree. Like, if Izzy can't get past Strickland and he has the same kind of performance where he just can't find a way to beat that guy, maybe that's just the end. answer. Maybe Izzy is just, he's just on that, that real decline that happens, man. Because, you know, like I said, you remember, like when Anderson, who is, you know, not the same as

Izzy, but similar in terms of like timing, speed, accuracy, things like that, he got knocked out by Wyman the first time. And then it's just like something changed. Like, he just didn't, the leg broke. He was out for a year. And he just wasn't the same guy. That was more definitive because he broke his leg. We knew we kind of had something to point to and say, look what happened him physically. But that's the reality. Like some guys just have that happen and, you know, that's, that may be what's happening. We don't know, but that may be what's happened with Izzy. Yeah, that's kind of just the question I'm asking. And that's why boxers don't usually last, you know, to 35 years old, right? That's when, you know, they're really declined. Most

boxers are, you know, in their prime, you know, between like 25 and maybe 32 at the most, right? And then they start to climb because it's a very reactionary sport. MMA, we don't see that. as much as commonly because there's so many other options, right? You don't just have to react. You can clinch a guy. You can take a guy down, all these things. So we don't see it quite as often. But Izzy only stays on the feet, really.

Like he's just, he's trying to keep it in that game that's going to have a lot of reactions. And so you have to keep your actions fast. And, you know, father time beats every man. So again, I'm just asking a question, putting it out there, not saying that's what it is. and I don't because the reason I want to say that it's a question and not that that's what the answer is is because I don't want to diminish what Dracus did either. I mean he walked through the fire. He fucking worked his ass off.

He put in the time. He got it done. Good for him. Yeah, 100%. A huge win. And yeah, I think we kind of mapped it out there. I think, you know, for Dracus, it's either going to be Strickland or maybe Homzot. And then I think I love the Strickland.

I love the idea of Strickland is. I think that's the perfect fight to make. I think if Mibabaub wins, I think he's kind of the dark one. horse right there too. Yeah and again I think it all depends. Like if Homside wins maybe you do Whitaker and Naserdine him in a lot, maybe you do those two or something like that. So yeah, there's options. But I love the

Strickland-I-Call. I think that's the perfect match-up and we'll find out. Like, is he still that dude or is it just that time for him? You know, and I think that's a great way to find out. I mean, you know, we always can't forget like maybe he loses Strickland and Strickland's just that good too. Yeah. And that's what

makes it, you know, so hard to answer all these questions. You know, like there's not really an or only Izzy really knows himself. Yeah, well, I guess, again, and you know as well as I do, the drop off the steep curve that happens. A lot of times it happens violently and in a bad way for guys,

so we just hope that doesn't happen. We never root for anyone to have that happen to them, but that's the reality of sport. Like I said, it is a cruel sport, and, you know, when you're a second slower than the guy hitting you, that you're the guy face down on the canvas. So hopefully that doesn't happen to Izzy,

hopefully that's not the case, but I think the Strickland fight would be a great chance just to see, was that a fluke, Was it a bad night at the office? Was it just, you know, he was still emotionally drained from the Pereira fights and he just didn't think, you know, Strickland was a threat? Let's find out.

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physically present in Ontario eligibility restrictions apply see golden nuggett casino.com for details please play responsibly So also on Saturday, of course Kai Kar-Franz went out there and got a huge knockout of Steve Ursaig, which was super impressive. Steve Ursaig had an incredible fight

with Alessandre Pantoja earlier this year and he goes out and actually starches him in the first round. Now, I know a lot of people are saying Kai Kar-France for a title shot, I'm not, I'm not totally opposed to that, but he just came off two losses. Like, I'm just, I don't know, I'm just, it's weird, but there's really not a number one contender of flyweight, so it's kind of a weird one. But boy, after being away for a year and a couple months, what a great night for Kikar, France.

Yeah, and I think the tough part was giving him a title shot. He's like he lost to the two guys in front of him. Yeah. Right. Marino and Royval, right? So that's kind of the tough position that he's in. I'd love to see him get one of those fights back. I don't know what those guys' schedules are coming up,

but I think he needs to go through one of those guys to go for the title shot, even though that they just gave it to Ersig, right? And what was he ranked when they gave him the title shot? He was like 10 or something? Nine or 10, yeah, he was pretty far back. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, if the division is in that much need of title contenders,

then, of course, you go and give it to Carl Franz. I mean, he looked amazing the other night. I thought the little adjustment that he made to finally land that big shot was. very impressive. I'd almost have to do a whole breakdown video to show exactly what he did. But it was really nice, though. And I could see where I remember watching the fight. And I was like, Ersig is definitely offensively better than him. But if Car France, you know, closes that distance just a little bit more, you know, Ersing is being a little too relaxed with his defense stepping

straight back a lot. And that's exactly what Carr France did. I was like, I was like, damn, you know I'm the worst at calling fights or picking fights and I picked the car front so you know just his style and everything I kind of seen it so finally got one in the bag I think the hard thing about a guy like Kai car or Francis because we have enough footage on him to know what he's done in the fights he's lost where he's lost you know I mean the fight with Amira al-Bazi was super close a lot of people thought he won that fight but it was a close fight but then we've seen him get taken out you know we saw what happened when he fought Moreno where Moreno just took it to him and then finished him, I think, in the third or fourth round when they fought for the interim title. And so when you get enough footage on a guy, you're kind of like, well, we kind of know who he is. can he pull off these spectacular knockouts? Absolutely.

But we also know when he's fought a couple of the elite guys that he's struggled and, you know, he's had some issues here and there. So it's like, I'd like to see him get one more. And I know that kind of sucks for Pantosha. I mean, I know they're talking about me, Kai Asakura, the guy from Verizon coming in getting a title shot. I'm not totally opposed to that. He's elite.

He's a very, very good fighter. and he's fun, he's exciting. He has a couple of fights with Manel Kopp. He has fights with, you know, Horaguchi. I think that would be an interesting one just because it would be some new blood. But I understand the idea of he's never fought in the UFC. It's tough to throw him right into a title fight. But yeah, it's a weird one because there's not really a clear-cut guy right now.

And so it's like, would you really complain about Kai getting it? Not, I guess not really, but also I kind of feel like I know who Kai Kar-France is. And he's more than capable of knocking out guys like Steve Ur-Segg. But I've also seen him struggle. against the top one, two, three guys he's fought before. So I'm just not sure, I'm not really sure where to find him. But, I mean, listen, Pantosia needs an opponent. He doesn't have an opponent.

Timings everything. How did Ers think get the title shot? Exactly that. So, you know, so maybe that's how it is. Yeah, maybe that's that is. What's a Royval and Moreno's schedule is coming up? So Royval's got a foot. So Marino's taking a break right now.

He's doing like the hiatus thing right now. I don't really know when he's coming back. He just basically said he needs a break. After he lost his last fight, he was just kind of like any of a break for a little while. And Roy Vall is fighting. Oh, yeah, Roval's got a big one. October. He's taking hit on a Tatsuya Tira.

That's a great fight. The kid for Japan who looks phenomenal. Young kid, he's like 23 or whatever, 24. That's a phenomenal fight. That's October. That's a main event, five rounds. So that's a good one. I think, you know, maybe you wait until that happens.

And the winner of that gets to, I know Brandon did fight for the title fairly recently, but maybe that's the way you go. Yeah, that's a, the whole division's a little bit tough, right? Like, just the way, given Erick, that shot just kind of, I don't know, to me, kind of threw everything off a little bit, you know,

you know, he put on a good performance, you know, he's not like he's not good enough to go in there and eventually be a title holder, but, you know, anytime you give the nine or ten guy a title shot, it's like, you know, do you just start doing that now? You know, you kind of set a precedent, you know, so like, like, Kai Kar coming off, you know, this big win, you know, it's like, do you give it to him now? So, I don't know, it kind of complicates things a little bit to me, but either way, I guess the other, the Dark Corsair is Amir, I forget how he said his last name, Al-Bazi.

Al-Bazi, Al-Bazi, yeah, like, I don't know what his schedule is either, but, you know, I said, if I'm the matchmaker, I give Kai-Car a rematch with one of those three. and look he goes in there and wins and obviously he's deserving if one of those guys wins maybe they're deserving. Yeah, I mean, I mean, Pantosia fought in May. I know it's sucked to be out a little longer, but maybe if you can get one of those, maybe you can get the Emir al-Bazi, Kai Kar, France, you know, fight rebooked for October November,

and then the winner goes on to fight Pantosia next year or something like that. And I know that means Pantosia's got to sit out a little while longer, but yeah, I agree. I think it's a bit. But again, like you said, everything kind of goes out the window when, you know, out of necessity, after UFC 300, they needed a fight for that card in Brazil. And they're like, well, Pantosia, you're getting Ersig because why not? So, you know, you just never know. Hey, we need another card.

You know, we need another fight in December. We need another big fight for December. So, hey, we're going to throw on a flyweight title fight. Kai, you're the guy. You just won. You got a big knockout. Potosia is ready. So, again, timing and opportunity.

We always know it deserves and earned and things like that in the sport. Sometimes it's timing, man. Sometimes it's not about deserving your earnings. Someone is just like, hey, we have a card just like what happened with Dracus. I mean, Dracus beats Whitaker, but it hurts his foot. He can't turn around and fight in September. Now, do I think it was unfair to expect him to win in July and then fight September? Yes, but he couldn't do it.

So Strickland took in. Guess what happened? Strickland made the most of his opportunity. Beats Israel out of Sonia becomes champion. So that's how this sport works. Absolutely. Yeah, you got to be ready at all times, man. You got to stay honest, stay professional.

I think the days of, you know, fighters just doing. fight camp and kind of getting fat and lazy outside of camp are kind of over now and that's like for instance like you see patty doing that and that's always been my knock on him you know I do think he's a quality fighter but I don't think it's going to be sustainable in the long run you know living that kind of life I think um you got to be ready when those opportunities come up and you got to stay professional 365 days a year now yeah I know you're absolutely so funny you say I was like dude why are you talking about Patty before you mentioned his name I knew where you were going with that I was like oh I just july this job you're just joh you're just joh I'm

joking, but you absolutely pulled that card. We also saw Dan Hooker get a big win. That was a battle with Matush Gamrod. What a great fight that was. Back and forth, back and forth. Incredible battle. Both guys bloodied up, and it was incredible. Here's my question.

And this is, like, I'm just curious because we know, we've seen Dan Hooker. Dan Hooker's been in there with a lot of elite guys. He had a battle with Dustin Poria a couple years ago. And then he had a couple of losses. Tried Featherweight again. That didn't end up well for him. It was not really the move for him. comes back.

He's had some big wins. Jalen Turner and now Matush Gamron. He's going to be in that top 10 conversation. Maybe this is the wrong question to ask, but I'm going to ask it anyways, Matt. What is the ceiling for Dan Hooker? Like, I still have a hard time seeing him being a threat to Islam Akacha. Like, obviously, you know, and I know that may be an unfair comparison to say, like, you know, he's that guy. But like, getting a winner whenever Gamron matters because Gamron is really good.

but do I see him as like one of the top two or three guys in the world? I still have a hard time putting him in that conversation. So what is the ceiling for Dan Hooker? No, that's a great question. And I think the ceiling is going to be a little bit dependent on who's at the top. And that's right now it's Islam. So Islam is definitely going to be his ceiling, right? Like he's just, you know, or even Sarukian, you know, like I think those are tough

matchups for him. And I think they're always going to be tough matchups for him. Honestly, I thought Gamrod, I picked Gamrod to win that fight. and I don't know, I had them winning at the end. I understand the decision for Hooker. Like, I'm not hating on it. I had Gamrod winning personally. But it's one of those, like, where the entire structure of, like, a 10-9 system

makes it very complicated. Because, like, the first two rounds, like Gamrod took him down, held him, got some good punches, you know, passed guard a couple times, things like that. And then at the end of the first two rounds, the hooker gets up and lands some big shots. And it's like, okay, well, who just won that round? Like, you know, Hooker won the first, or I mean, Gamrod won the first half of the round,

and then Hooker wins maybe the second half or, you know, last part of the round. So, you know, and I've talked about a million times before, damage is a very subjective thing. You know, what's his name? Gamrock could have landed huge damage on the ground, and we just didn't even know because Hooker's on his back, right? You're not going to see him stumbling.

You're not going to see his eyes you're rolling up or anything, you know, his posture change, things like that. So it was a really tough fight to score, I think, and I think it could have went either way. Either way, it wasn't really a robbery as an entire fight as a whole, which is how, you know, they probably should be scoring fights, you know, or at least there's an argument for it to be made that they could be scoring fights that way. Like Hooker won the fight, right? Like, I mean, that third round was amazing, and he looked ridiculously good. But when you talk about the ceiling, I think you can't help but say, look like Gamron is a great wrestler, but he's not Islam. We seen him fight Sarukin and, you know, Surukian won.

So it's like, you know, Gamron, it would surprise me, which I think it surprised a lot of people, was Gamron gasped out. But, like, he just looked... Yeah. Yeah. Well, Gamran... Now, hold on. I'm not really sure I'm right, because I'm pretty sure I'm right.

I think Gamrod actually beat Sarukian. If I'm not... It was a close fight. It was a real super close fight. Oh, Davey. I thought Syruki would beat him. I think it was the other way around. I think Gamrod won.

I have to double... It was a great fight. I do remember it being a battle. Let me just make sure I'm right about that. Yes. He beat Syruki and then he lost to binil derayu in his next fight. So I kind of knocked him back down the ladder again. So he does that.

So, yeah, that was a fight. I remember that. And I do remember Sarukin was not happy with the decision. So it was a close fight. It was very much like Gamrod Hooker. I don't think you're wrong in thinking that Gamrod won. Like it was a super close fight. I don't think anyone could have said, oh, man, Gamrod got or Hooker got robbed.

No, it was a close fight. Like it could have gone to the win. I think the same thing with the Sarukin fight. So he did. But also, you know, it's a couple years ago. Sarukin's gotten better. I don't know that the Sarukin who lost the Gamrot would have beaten Charles Oliva. But he just beat Charles Oliva.

So time. You know, I mean, listen, guys get better. You know what fight I'd like to see when he comes back when he's healthy? I'd like to see Dan Hooker against Haffiel Fiziv. I think that's the fight. You know, Fiziv lost to Gammarov, but he injured his knee. He didn't really lose. He got injured.

Again, not Gameraut's fault. He got injured. But I think he's an elite striker. That dude hits like a truck. We saw him go to war with Gae. I think, well, let me rephrase that. Fiziv or Gachie, I think that should be the fight for Dan Hooker. because I think we're going to find out

what is his ceiling because you're going to go through a freaking you're going to look like you went you're going to look like you ran headfirst into a brick wall to fight Gachi and you're going to fight one of the fastest, nastiest strikers in Fiziv. I think either one of those

would be good matchups for Dan Hooker that don't necessarily potentially ruin him because you throw him in there with a Syruci and or an Islam probably going to get ugly but I think that would be I think that would make a lot of sense

and don't forget you know Hooker Hooker did fight Islam back in 2021 and he got, you know, Kimurid in the first round and then and then he lost to Arnold Allen in his return. So he already fought Islam and lost pretty decisively. So yeah, I think what he's doing is great. But as much as I like him, I think there's still a bit of a ceiling of how far he'll go. But Fiziv or Gagee, hell yeah, let's have some fun.

I'm totally with you there. I was actually going to say the one guy, I would. actually like to see him fight if our boy Connor doesn't come back is Michael Chandler. Like I would, I think Hooker and Chandler would be a great fight. It would give Hooker a big chance to go in. And also, it's a rematch. It's a rematch. Remember, Chandler beat him in his debut back when he first debuted in the UFC.

You knocked him out, you know, a chance for Hooker to get some revenge. You know, I think he's a different fighter now. Yeah, I think that'd be interesting. I think they're both, I was saying, I think they're both a little bit different fighters now. like Chandler came in, you know, with some hype and, you know, kind of went through the gauntlet a little bit, but, you know, he's gotten way more popular now, not that he wasn't popular before, way more popular now with this whole Connor thing,

doing the ultimate fighter and everything. And Hooker claims that he's the best he's ever been, right? He's the one claiming that he's a new fighter now, and he's ready for that next level. Chandler is the guy to test that against. And yeah, like, I know they fought before, but I don't really, I'm personally not that guy. It's like, oh, they should never rematch or anything. Like, guys change, guys get better.

Like, let them fight again. And I not only do I think it's a great opponent for Hooker at this point, but I think it's a great opponent for Chandler also. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I know, I think Hooker said in an interview, they were talking about maybe Charles Oliva. I'm not opposed to that one either. That's a great match of Oliver. You know, coming off a tough loss to Sarukes, he's on a couple losses.

you know, needs to get back in there. That dude's a damage machine. I think that would be real interesting. He's good on the feet, good on the ground. Both tall, lanky, lightweight. I think that'd be interesting because Hooker's such a tall guy for lightweight. That would be interesting as well. You open Pandora's box, though, Matt, so I'm just going to go go ahead and kick the box right open.

Before we get out of here, because you mentioned Chandler. And I think we all know where I'm going with this. We all heard the news over the week. Dana White. Connor's now fighting in 2024. Now, Connor, to his credit. and said, come on, I want to fight in December. I thought we were going to fight in December.

Let's go. But Dana kind of doubled down and said, no, Connor's not going to fight this year. Now, I don't know why. I don't know if it's just because, like, they're worried about having faith in him being healthy or they're worried about him being ready. I don't know what the reason is.

I really don't. I have no idea why Dana is so adamant saying not this year. But I said, and you remember this, Matt, I said this on the podcast, after June happened, after UFC 303 happened. I said, if you're Michael Chandler, give it to the end of the year, and then you've got to move on.

man. Like you cannot, at this point he's going to be out for two years. He's 38. He's not a young guy. Like, I don't know, man. I'm not trying to use this as like a referendum to bag on Connor because I still don't know why they're not fighting. Like, I had heard December. I thought December

was going to be the timeline for whatever reason. Doesn't seem like it's going to happen. But man, like, if you're Michael Chandler, I get it, dude, but you've got to move on now, man. You got to start calling making some calls and say, get me a fight. Get me somebody. Get me hooker. Get me Geachie. Get me Pori. Give me somebody.

Yeah. Again, I think it's the, I was about to say that, what I was talking about before. I think hooker's a great matchup for Chandler at this point, too. The only tough thing for Chandler is he's like, well, I already beat him. Do I need to do this again? But I think it makes sense for him.

You know, he gets him, you know, he's obviously going to be confident going in. You know, should be getting him back in the wind column. if things go like they did before. But again, Hooker say, look, I'm different. And he looked great last weekend, too. You know, I gave Gamrod to win, but giving it to Hooker, like, I wasn't mad at all. Hooker looked great. I mean, he fought a hard, hard fight, kept fighting, kept the pressure up.

He looked really, really good. So I would love to see Chandler fight him. As for Connor, dude, he's gone. I've said it for a long time now, right? Like, how many years have I been saying? I know, like, I know, he's done, man. Like, like, you know, I don't discount that there's a chance that he comes back, but the chances of him come back are way lower than the chances of him not fighting again.

You know, he's like a 20% chance to come back, I think. I mean, you know, he's doing great staying in the news and doing great, you know, keeping his name out there. We all would love to see him fight still. I'd love to see him fight Chandler, you know, whoever, I'd love to see Connor fight. if he's training properly, staying off the, you know, the various substances or, you know, whatever it is. You know, get out, come in the real Connor, you know, live your life all you want when you're 45, right? When you're retired and totally out.

Like, enjoy it then, man. But now, like, you know, let's see all the fights, bro. Let's see him. I want to see you fight. And the reason that people get sick of me bringing up. Connor, but the reason I bring it up is because you were the guy forever ago that said, I don't think Connor's never coming back. Back when we thought Connor was coming back when, like, it was Ultimate Fighter and he's

come back from the broken leg. Yeah, like, I thought it was coming back. I was like, oh, man, they're doing the ultimate fighter. They're going to fight this year, blah, blah, blah, and you were right away. You're like, he's never coming back. And I was like, I don't agree with you. But as time has passed, I'm just like, man, did you like, did you just know something I didn't know?

Because you were one of the, you were one of the very few, if not the only voice at that point saying I don't think he's ever going to fight again. And even then you say, I just have a feeling. There's just something about it. I just don't think he's going to come back again. And sure enough, it's like you read the prophecy. And for whatever reason, he's not coming back. And I do feel for Michael Chandler.

I talked to Chandler's teammate Gilbert Burns last week. And I was asking him. And I said, what do you think? This is before we heard that, you know, they weren't going to fight in December. But I said, what do you think your guy Chandler should do? And Gilbert kind of smiled because that's his guy, it's his teammate. But he's like, I would have never waited this long. He's like, I, there's nobody worth waiting that long for.

He's like, I understand Connor brings a lot of money and attention, but there's no fight I would wait, sit out for two years for. Like, it's just, there's nothing worth that because in that two years, you could have fought three, four, five times depending on your schedule. And if you win all those fights, maybe you're the guy fighting Islam McAchev right now. Or maybe you're the guy headlining the sphere or whatever. And while I know Connor's going to get you a big payday, imagine all the paydays you've missed. by not fighting. Like, even if it's three paydays, okay, maybe it takes three paydays to equal

what you would get in one Conner fight. Well, guess what? Two years, you're probably four or five paydays gone by now. Like at this point, there's an argument to be made, Matt, that by the time if they actually do fight, and again, I know we're saying, you're saying, and I'm pretty much agreeing with you, I don't think Conner's fighting again.

Even if they fight in December, you can argue he's losing money by waiting that long, because that's two years. that's at minimum four fights. Two years at minimum four fights you missed out on. There's an argument that you're going to lose money to fight Connor at this point. And I've said a million times. If he went, say he fought four times in these two years and went two,

Connor still fights him. You know what I mean? It's not like Chandler's an up-and-comer that we're trying to, you know, it's going to be on fight nights or on the prelims or something. Like, you know, he would have had to lose all of his fights for Connor to say, I'm not fighting you. And maybe even then, Connor might fight. I mean, you know what I mean?

Like, Connor's going to need a tune-up fight coming back. Like, he might see that as a tune-up fight. It's like, I don't think he would have lost anything by fighting however many times. You know, and I get it why, you know, why he's waiting, I guess. You know, maybe they're just kind of stringing him along. I don't, you know, we don't know what he's hearing. We don't know the voices in his ear what they're telling them. hindsight's always 20-20 right like it's easy for us to look back and say you should have fought all this time

but it's like okay we know hindsight you probably should have fought at what point do you put your foot down and say okay i'm fighting again and and it's what you know he's like you said he's been out it's been over two years for chanelor since he fought right and it'll be November will be two years exactly that's when he fought porre it was November so we're i mean he's not going to fight by November so effectively it's two years. Yeah. So, you know, in that case, again, I think Hooker makes sense. Yeah.

I mean, just, you know, you already beat him. Like, it should be a tune-up fight for you. You already beat him. You beat him badly, too. Hooker, you know, he could have a chance of redemption, and he could go in and show, look, I am better than I was then. Yeah, I just, like I said, I'm not trying to make light in the situation because I like Michael Chandler.

He's a good dude. I've known him for a lot of years. But like I said, I just. I think, you know, the reason you fight Connor is for a lot of attention and a lot of money. Am I wrong in thinking that by the time, and they're not fighting in December. We already know that. But let's just say January, February. That's two years plus out of action, two years, three months, whatever it is.

I think even if you make $10 million fighting Connor, you may lose money because you could have fought four times. You could have fought four main events, a couple of pay-per-views in there. Probably all pay-per-views. Chandler, because he's that kind of guy. I mean, there's a world where you've lost money waiting for Conner. You've already lost money, but I'm saying like, even if you went two and two in foreign fights. Yeah, like, you're still, like, by the time you get to Connor,

you may actually lose money fighting Connor McGregor because all the opportunities you missed. Yeah, and ultimately, I mean, he's probably not going to lose money on it if he does fight Connor, you know, just with the brand awareness, you know, whatever, he's got other businesses going on. I don't think he's hurting for money or anything. So, you know, ultimately, like in the big. bigger picture. Yeah, it's probably not going to be a net loss in that sense. But, you know, in my view, you know, you only live once. And this is a short window of time in your life that you get to compete at the highest level. You know, I think he's going to look back when he's 50,

60 years old and be like, man, you know, I missed out on a couple years there that, you know, just waiting for a payday when, you know, I don't think, again, I don't think he's hurting for money anyway. It's like, you know, I waited for this payday. And I could have been, you know, putting myself out there on the line. I think Michael Chandler is a competitor. I think he wants to be out there putting it on the line. And, you know, I think he's going to end up regretting this someday. Yeah, I agree.

I agree. Because, again, like, you know, it's not like, it's, I understand that everyone fights for different reasons, and I certainly never fall anyone for fighting for money. It's prize fighting. You should fight for money. Right. But if he was sitting over two years because he was promised Habib, the greatest lightweight of all time, and Khabib was like, I'm just injured, I'm waiting to come back. I get it, man.

I understand why you wait for that fight. It's a legendary fight. That's the fight you may never get again a chance of the title, all those kind of things. That's not the fight. Like, you're not doing that. You're waiting for a guy who's already been out for two plus years on a broken leg, three years,

who we got a lot of questions about where his head's at, where his body's at, where his mind, all these different things. Yes, it's a big payday. That I don't fault him for that. But if he, like, if Chandler goes on starches Connor, is it still the same win it was four years ago? You know, like that's also the other than you get a question. And then the flip side of that is what if Connor starch is you?

Then we're like, man, you waited at two and a half years. He just got starched in two minutes. And that's what you waited for? So again, risk versus reward. I get the waiting. The risk for sure. I get it. But we're just at a ticking time bomb now where it's like two years is too long, man.

Like you can't. Well, yeah, I mean, it's clear. Like, the weight is for a payday. It's not for a legacy thing. It's not for a competitive nature. It's not, you know what I mean? And I think that's kind of what Gilbert Burns was kind of saying. Like, look, I'm not waiting for anybody to get paid.

Like, I'm going to go out there and earn my keep. And, you know, again, I think Michael Chandler's probably going to look back on it and say, you know, I should have jumped in there. Maybe he won't. I don't know. I can't read his mind. I don't know what's going on in his life. Again, I'm guessing he's probably solid on money.

So it doesn't. really add up to me, you know, why you want to do that. Yeah, it's just a weird one, man. And like I said, Connor, you know, when Dana said that, I sent you the article, I was like, Jesus, Matt, you were on this one so long ago when you said he's not, and I know I've argued with you. I think he's coming back. And then they scheduled in June even you said, hey, man, he's going to prove me wrong.

Well, not so much because he still hasn't fought and he's still not fighting. And listen, dude, as you say, time is, your father time is undefeated. It runs out, the sand runs out of the hourglass for everybody. Connor's now 37 I think I mean You know what I mean? Like we know he's not going to come back And be the same Connor

It's just not possible It's impossible for him to come back At 37, four years of- I wouldn't say that I wouldn't say that I'm saying like He's at four years off The likelihood is very low

Likely is very low Extremely low Especially seeing everything That he's been doing in his downtime You know assuming that that's all real Which I think it is but it is not impossible. I wouldn't go that far because, look, the human body is an amazing thing

and people do amazing things and surprises all the time. So I would never go as far as saying that's impossible. Yeah, you're right, you're right. It's not impossible, but, yeah, the percentage is pretty low, like that he's going to come back. I'm not looking good. I mean, the guy who beat Eddie Alvarez and became champion and was that guy, number one in the world, that was 2016.

It's crazy. We're talking almost nine years ago at this point. We're some old motherfuckers, Damon. No, but that's what I'm saying. Like, we always, we always hold. It doesn't even feel like nine years ago. I know. We always hold on to these, to the pictures of the guys.

And then we forget, like, Connor hasn't been a UFC champion in almost nine years. Like, that's when he was the last, that's when he was on top of the world was in 2016. Now, again, I'm not saying the wins, you know, coming back, I mean, cowboy, things like that doesn't matter. it does but yeah like all i'm saying is is like Connor hasn't been Connor the the Connor we all you know the connor was on top of the world the connor looked on be able Connor that was just two champ champ champ champ all that stuff that was 2015 2016 that's nine almost nine years ago it's eight years ago already but it's almost nine years ago yeah as I said that's why the likelihood is pretty damn low right

because he you know I mean he hasn't looked great and in a while either, you know, coming off of how many losses now? Yeah, like three out of his last four and two in a row to Porier and yeah, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and he hasn't, it just hasn't looked great anyway. So I just don't want to discount the possibility that, yeah, maybe he comes back and just proves this all wrong and it happens. This sport is fucking stupid, bro. Like, you can't predict anything, right?

Like, guys do insane things all the time. But yeah, it doesn't look good for him. Like I agree with you that Chandler goes out there and beats Connor, even in an impressive fashion, it isn't nearly as meaningful, even as it was a couple years ago with him coming off losses. Because I don't think anybody's going to argue that we don't see the hunger in Connor right now. And the more that he keeps this whole waiting game of pushing it back, pushing it back, like no one's saying like, oh, he just wants to get healthier and stronger, and he's just working hard trying to get himself back.

No, we're saying, no, he's not ready because he's out partying on boats and, you know, doing things not conducive towards being a world champion. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Yeah, and you're right. And again, even if Connor goes on starches Michael Chandler, are we still going to say, is he back? Because Chandler, I love Chandler, but it's not like Chandler was the top two or three guy in the world. Like, Chandler's been a very, very good lightweight, but, you know, he lost to Gachie. He lost to Poria.

He lost Olivera. you know, there's no shame in losing to those guys, but that also kind of sets the hierarchy of the division. You know what I mean? Like, you know, if Connor comes back and beats a Porre, it comes back and beats a Gehche, comes back and beats a Holloway, probably a little bit more meaningful right now,

but that's not, and there's a reason why he wanted Chandler. He sees Chandler as a guy he could, you know, he thinks he can beat Chandler. Like, I know he, like, that's, it's a big fight, but it's also a fight that he believes he can win. But does he believe he can win now? Because, I don't know. Like I said, I want to spend too much time.

I'm just saying, like, it's just, I just bow down to Matt Brown, man. You were right. For a year and a half ago, you're like, dude, he ain't never coming back. And I'm like, oh, come on, he's coming back. Here we sit a year and a half later. And you're like, he's not coming back. I told you he's not coming back. You just brought up a name, too, that had me thinking a little bit, Max Holloway.

I wouldn't mind seeing Hooker fight him, actually. Even though that's, you know, I think Hooker would obviously be a big underdog and everything. I wouldn't mind seeing that fight. Yeah. I mean, Max has to fight with Ilya coming up in October, but... Yeah, which is the right fight for sure, right? That's probably my favorite fight for the rest of this year. Like, Ilya and Max, holy shit, what a fight.

I always forget when people are fighting. Yeah, that's a pretty good fight. It would be fun, though, but Max is in like, dude, Max can just call a shot right now. Like, after what he did to gauge you at 300, he could just call a shot. You can bring that guy whatever he wants. Yeah, that's fair. Give it whatever he wants. As he should, he created the most epic,

in UFC history and fighting history maybe like like just fighting since the Greek times history like yeah that was that was fucking amazing yeah give him whatever he wants good gives me chills man I've watched I watched a lot of highlights over the years I think I mean I think in all the years I've covered this sport 20 plus years now I think I've somehow watched that highlight more than any other highlight and it just happened in April like I think I've seen it more times yeah nothing I don't I don't ever remember just getting that hyped when if I like I think the like I picked holly home to beat ronda but that was the last time I seen like you know groups of people just jump out of their seats like what the fuck just happened and and Holloway doing that like I think everybody at every bar and the world

was like what the fuck just happened yeah dude I screamed like I there's only a few occasions when I'm watching a fight because I'm working where I like audibly like oh my god that was an oh my God, but we talked about. See, I like, dude, give, give Halloween whatever he wants. He wants Ilya, give him Ilya. He wants Volk, give him Volk. He wants Poyer, give him Porriere. He wants Gae again.

Give him Islam. Dude, give him whatever he wants. I just think that would be a cool fight. No, I agree. No, I think it would be. But I think Hooker Olivares fun, Hooker Fizzee. I think those, you know, Gae for now. I think.

Yeah, that Fizzibe fights. Yeah, that Fizte fights, right call, I think. Yeah, that's a fun fight. Two strikers. That's a real fun fight. Yeah, dude. You know how good for Zeeve is, man. He hits like a truck. He's fast, accurate. That'd be a fun fight. So, yeah, lots of, lots of good. What we got coming up? What we got coming up next week or the week after? So this next weekend we got Jared Canaaner and Cairo Bahilo Barolo Bahailo fighting in the main event. Not exactly the biggest event in the world.

Got a couple of events coming up in early September. No event on the 31st, August 31st, the UFC's off for a week. And then September 14th is the day everyone's waiting for. And that's the sphere. That's Sean O'Malley and Marab and Valentina Alexa Grasso. That's the fight. And that's coming up September 14. So that's the next big, big card.

And then later that month, we got Paris, which is going to be Benoit San Deney against Hinato Moikano. What a freaking fight that's going to be. And Nasardine M.E.O.V. And Brendan Avivov and Brendan Allen. So that's a really good fight, too. So that's coming up at the end of September. Dude, I'm stoked.

We got a great couple weeks coming up. I'm stoked, man. Yeah. That's your show. It's going to be sick, too. They announced that card in October, too, Alex Pereira and Kalilor Roundtree. That's interesting. I know a lot of people are like, why is Cleo getting around?

Listen, I believe Magamette Ancalaia should have gotten a title shot. I don't disagree. But Roundtree and Pereira is a fun fight, dude. Roundtree is a good striker. Remember what he did to go Konsaki? I know we talk about that one all the time. Him and Pereira is fun, man. I don't know that it's going to last a lot, but it's going to be a fun fight for as long as it lasts.

Now, you're right. That is a fun fight. And I might go out to that fight, actually. Yeah. You're going to go out there? I've been to Utah before. I actually really like Utah. I was out there. I went out there and went Canva before.

Utah's beautiful out there. It's a gorgeous state. I've never actually seen a fight out there, but I've been out there a couple times. I like Utah. Utah's a cool place. Yeah, so you're going to go? Are you going to stay at home? I don't know. I don't know. I'll probably stay at home. I'll probably stay at home. I've been to enough UFC. Dude, that's what everyone's, everyone's like, oh, man, don't you miss it? I'm like, not really. Like, I've, dude, I've been to like 200 UFC shows.

Like, you know, like I always cherish memories. Like I was there the night. Connor knocked out Josie Aldo. I was there for Connor D.S. 2. which was my personal favorite fight I've ever seen in person, you know. I was there for Gilbert Melendez and Diego Sanchez when they threw down. I was there for some of the Frankie Edgar Gray Maynard fights. I was there for Rhonda and Amanda Nunes on Rhonda's final fight. I've been to a lot of fights.

But, yeah, people are like, don't you miss them? I'm like, no, I've been to enough. Like, I don't need to see all the fights. Like, I just, yeah, you know. It's a cool experience. Don't get me wrong. I never take anything for granted. But I don't miss being on planes and traveling six days.

a week and living in hotels and yeah and you're working the whole time too like you're watching the fight but like you're working you're not just you're sitting back relaxing having a drink with the boys and cheering on your favorite fighter and you know screaming just bleed or anything yeah it's not it's not like i'm flying in on friday going to the way ends going to the fights flying out sunday and i'm gone for two days like i'm there from like tuesday through sunday and i don't fly home until sunday night or whatever and by the time the fights were i'm just like i just want to go home. So yeah, it's a whole different experience. Yeah. And I love it. Don't get me wrong. I love it. But I did it for a long time. I was on, I was on the road two months out of every month for

like four years straight. And I'm like, no, I don't need that anymore. Yeah, you like being home now. You're getting old, bro. I do. Well, dude, listen, our guy Jose Young's, who does an incredible job on the road. I also, dude, that poor guy, man, he has like the worst travel luck. Like he was in, he was in Perth this weekend. And, uh, he flew back. He had like a delay in Melbourne. missed a flight or something. It's like, dude, like he gets the worst travel stuff, and that's what happens. And I remember that world, like where I'd get to the plane. First flight's okay.

Then you land in Chicago, delay, delay. I remember one time I was going to Vancouver for a UFC event. And I flew from Columbus where we lived to Houston to fly from Houston to Vancouver. Something wrong. My flight was like 3 o'clock in the afternoon. I didn't catch a flight from Houston until like midnight. So I was in Houston airport for like nine hours, just like waiting. And then finally got to Vancouver.

at like four in the morning or something insane like that. And I had to go work that next day at like 11. So I got like three hours of sleep. And I was, dude, it's just, I don't miss that. That's what it's not the fights that I miss. It's the travel that I don't miss. Like that's the part that sucks. You know what I mean?

And then like, dude, sometimes you get to a hotel. Like I've had a situation where he lost my reservation or, you know, oh, this got canceled. I'm like, cancel. What are you talking? Like, it just, it just shit happens. And I just, I do not miss it. I do not miss it at all.

Not, I feel you. Well, I might go out to Salt Lake City. So if anybody listen, wants to hang out or whatever, I might swing out there. I don't know. I haven't decided yet. Yeah, it should be a good time. It should be a good time. All right, folks.

Yeah, we're going to get out of here. Obviously, we've got a lot more coming up in the near future. Lots of stuff going on for the rest of this month. Of course, going into September, I'm super excited for the sphere. So we'll be previewing that down the road, of course. Matt, where can people check you out and show you support? At I am the immortal, Instagram and Twitter, the Immortal, My Brow on Facebook. You check out some of my sponsors at Try underscore Create the creatine gummies, which everybody should be taking some creatine.

Damon, are you taking creatine? I'm not. I'm still waiting for you to send me some gummies is what I'm waiting for. Well, you can use my code by them, Immortal, on creates website, whatever it is. TryCreat.com, I think. There you go. We ask another website. I know there's socials.

Try underscore create. I know they're socials. I know there's a Yeah, I just don't know their website. Maybe I should learn that. But anyway, yeah, that's where you check me out. And you know, my other sponsor, Redwood Outdoors Co. Or at Redwood Outdoor CO for the saunas and cold plunges.

I just got me a new outdoor shower in my little sauna set up. So it is so awesome, man. It's sort of the greatest thing in the world. It's a little bit late now, but I might go hit it up tonight. You can use code Immortal 250 to save $250 on your next purchase. You told me during the winter when you were doing the cold plunge. It was weird because it was so cold outside. You did the cold plunge.

It was actually warmer in the tub than it was outside. Is it better or worse when it's like boiling? It's been hot in Ohio lately where it's like 90 degrees and like humidity. Is it better or worse to get the cold plunged on that kind of day? Obviously, it's a lot better. A lot better? Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, the thing is I do the cold plunged on. cold plunge first thing in the morning is the second that i wake up but don't even look at my phone i just walk out to the cold jump in it which is i don't care how warm or cold it is outside like the second that you wake up you walk out and get into a you know 35 40 degree water it's just not fun until you do it right after you're in there and you feel it there is a most you know just livening experience you can have man it's amazing i i fucking love it i don't promote like all the benefits that everybody talks about like inflammation and i don't know whatever joint pace it doesn't do any of that for me really but maybe because i've been doing it for so long but that wake up in the morning

there's nothing like it and then i use it at nighttime with the sauna i use the sauna at night and a cold in the morning when i go when i hit the sauna um if i don't especially when it's warm out like this because you get out of the sauna and like it's still warm so you know you're not really cooling off as quickly if you step out of sauna you obviously when it's 30 degrees like you cool off pretty quickly right you stop sweating but when it's hot like this I jump in the cold plunge and now I can go do another 15 minute 20 minute round asana and it feels good to get back in there versus just stepping out and trying to cool off for a little bit you're like god I don't want to get back in you know so um it's just I fucking love it

it man i i can't say enough great things about having a sata and cold plunge in my backyard and now i got the excuse me now i have the little shower too so that's a game changer i don't have to change the water so much in the cold plunge because it rinse off the sweat and stuff what's the longest you ever spent in the cold plunge um not with this one actually the longest ever did was when i lived in denver um the most farm facility out there that i was training at they had a cold plunge and they would keep it at about 45 which is a little warmer than what I keep it and I practiced it all the time thinking I was going to you know this is when Wim Hof started getting big and I was like I was doing the Wim Hof breathing and

you know all that bullshit and I ended up getting to about 20 25 minutes and basically to the point where I could sit there as long as I wanted you know I would just get out when I got bored but again I you know I felt like I didn't get enough benefit out of it where I was like I was like yeah this is really worth you know an hour of my time you between driving there and you know doing the cold bunch getting changed all that i'm like it was just not worth the time so usually you know that's why i don't promote all the all the stuff a lot of other people do um even you know you know it's my sponsor like i'm honest about it and look it does amazing things for me uh for what i use it for and that's to wake me up in the morning you know force your body to heat

itself up and your whole day goes better. There you go. Check it out. All right, folks, we're going to get out of here. We appreciate everyone tuning in. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. And of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. For

Matt Brown, I am Damon, Martin. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first there. The last one.

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