MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: UFC 281 Reaction, Adesanya vs. Pereira Stoppage and Paying Tribute to Anthony ‘Rumble’ Johnson

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns after an action-packed weekend at UFC 281 where Alex Pereira pulled off a stunning comeback to knockout Israel Adesanya to become the new middleweight champion. UFC welterweight Matt Brown joins Damon Martin on the podcast as they discuss the fallout from the event when Pereira earned a third win over Adesanya after beating him twice previously whey they were competing in kickboxing. Brown will give his thoughts on the fight and why he believes the stoppage in the fight between Pereira and Adesanya was a little bit early in his estimation. We’ll also discuss the jaw-dropping performance from Dustin Poirier and Michael Chandler as they went to war in one of the most memorable fights of 2022. Where does Poirier go next after this win and has Chandler hit his ceiling in the UFC if he’s not willing to engage in these all out wars? Plus, the podcast pays tribute to Anthony “Rumble” Johnson after his tragic death at just 38 years old while Brown looks back at the time he was scheduled to face the prolific knockout artist in his career. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones

you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is Matt Brown and Matt. We are back after one of the craziest

events. In recent history, UFC 281 did not disappoint. We were texting last night during the event And boy, I tell you what, we talked a lot about it on last week's show Did it deliver? I mean, seriously, that card delivered

In a massive, massive way. Straight up, man. That was like MMA orgasso, bro. I was still coming down from last night, man. Like, I couldn't sleep at all. That's the only shitty part about beyond East Coast, right? Like, we get it, we don't get it done until one in the morning. I started watching the prelims.

It was six, six-th, is when they came on, right? Yeah, like 6 o'clock is when they started, yeah. Yeah, yeah, man, I didn't miss a single fight all night. What about you? No, I was there for the whole thing, and it was crazy from start to finish. I mean, even the prelims were nuts. Like, it wasn't like there was just the main card.

Like, sometimes, sometimes there's like, I remember when you fought, when you fought Tim Means, like that card ended up being like one of the greatest cards ever, but it was started with your fight because every fight before your fight was like, oh, my God, this was not a good night. You finished Tim Means, and then everything after that was insane. That was Robbie Laudorre McDonald, Conan McGregor. It was a crazy, crazy night. This card, this card was start to finish.

Like, it was nonstop. Like, there were really no bad fights. It was really crazy the whole night. And I felt like this was like the, I don't know what you said, the climax of MMA shows, not the climax, but there's just the peak of MMA, man. Like, such high-skill fights, every single one. We had the dog fights. we had the wars, we had the knockouts,

just such high skill level all day or all night. Man, I was just so happy and please just to get a show like that, man. And at MSG, Frankie retired, God, you just couldn't ask for it to be any better. Yeah, absolutely. We're going to get to the car in a second, but I do want to start the show on a bit of a somber note because I'm sure as people have seen by now, we had some really tragic news in the mixed martial arts community.

Anthony Rumble Johnson, two-time UFC title contender, legendary knockout artist currently a fighter on the bellator roster sadly has passed away at the age of 38 still getting a lot of reports about what exactly happened i did see one report that had something to do with uh non-hodgkin's lymphoma i don't want to you know say that's testament but that's what i was reading either way 38 years old gone far too soon um i'm not going to sit here and say i was best friends with anthony rumble johnson but i've known him for since he started in the ufc i've interviewed him dozens of times. I had the kind of relationship with him where, you know, I, I, he was, it was Anthony to a lot

of people. He was rumble to a lot of people. And the people who knew him best or the people who were kind of friendly with him would call him AJ. And that was what I called him, anytime I would see him, I'd call him AJ. And he was just an incredibly good guy, always gracious and nice to me. Anytime I would hit him up for an interview, you know, he didn't do a lot of media, but he would always say, oh, yeah, I got time for you.

Like, he would always say things like that. And I'd have him on. We'd have hilarious interviews. He was just a great dude. I'd spoke to him last, probably right after his first Bellator fight. He was going through sickness, of course. I'm sure a lot of people saw that. He's been kind of out of the public spotlight dealing with an illness and sadly lost his life.

It's just, man, it's one of those ones, you know, there's certain deaths where it's like, you know, is that a close friend? I'm like I said, I hung out on the weekends. We were best buddies or anything like that. But it's one of those ones that really hits home, man. It really does hit home. And, you know, this community for as big as MMA has gotten, we are still a small-knit kind of close-knit family. And it hurts and it stings.

And this one stings. Yeah, I'm right there with you. I only had a few interactions with Anthony, but he was always a great guy to me. We're supposed to fight at one point, actually. He ended up getting injured, you know, when he was somehow making 170 back in the day. And, you know, I talked to him after a couple of things.

months after and, you know, just a really cool guy, man. I mean, I remember looking at him and saying, dude, I don't know how you made 170, but yeah, he was a phenomenal person, though. And I was close with Con the League back then. And he was training with Kong, and, you know, he had nothing but good things to say about him. So definitely a tragic day for MMA. Guy has been around for a long time and done a lot of great things.

Yeah, you talk about, like, you talk about a career. Like, you know, he may not have become a UFC champion. Came close, obviously, a couple of titles, you know, a couple times, you know, fighting for the belt. But one thing that I always loved about AJ's career, man, is that dude was always fun and always exciting to watch. I mean, when we talk about, like, when we remember the greatest knockout artists and mixed martial arts history, I'm talking about one-punch knockout power. Like, not, you know, not cumulative knockout power, which is absolutely a thing. But just vicious one-punch knockout power.

Like, the list is pretty short. Francis and Ghanu might be won now as a heavyweight. you know, but you guys, like, Anthony Rumble Johnson will always be on that list. That dude, that dude generated so much, like, freakishly scary power. And I, you know, he's not going to fight. He fought at 170. I remember running into him. I want to say it was the UFC card in Pittsburgh when, uh, I think it was like, God,

who wasn't the fought in that fire? It was Rick Story fought and Charlie Brennaman or who wasn't in that car? I think I fought on that car, right? Did you vote on that car? Was that you as well? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I remember being, I was, I was at the security desk checking in. And I just checked in.

And I turned around the corner, I'm checking my bag and stuff, like, because they have to do this. Because Obama was in town that weekend. President Obama was at that hotel. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was, so you had to go to this, like, super extensive security to get into the hotel. So, like, they had to search my backpack.

So I'm around the corner and I'm going to the media center. And I'm just basically putting my backpack back together. And AJ comes in. He sees me in spot. He's like, hey, Damon. How are you? I'm going to get up and shake his hand. And I literally shook his hand, gave him like a hug.

And I remember stopping. I just, I looked at him up and down. I said, how in the hell do you make welterweight? And he just cracked up laughing. Dude, he looked like a head. And he was, and he wasn't like out of shape. He was like in shape, ripped, just a big freaking dude. And I was like, holy crap.

I literally was like stopped in my track. Like, how do you make welterweight? That's so funny. Because I'm pretty sure that was when I had the interaction with them that I was just talking about. Oh, really? That's funny. Yeah, I think it was after my fight. I fought there in Pittsburgh.

I got it. I can't for the life of me. Remember who I fought that night? But I don't know why I can't remember. But yeah, I seen him after. And I was like, God, thank God I didn't have to fight that guy. Look how freaking big he is. Yeah, just a giant-in-lawful person.

Lord knows how he ever made. I mean, I think he'll have made it was 70 once or twice. But like you're talking about with that one-punch knockout power, yeah, there's a lot of guys that have, don't, Not too many guys have stopping power like him. Like people have fight changing power. Like Chandler, for instance, we see it this weekend. Like he hits you once.

It can change a whole fight. You know, or poor, you know, there's a lot of guys with this kind of power. There's very few with true knockout power. I feel like I have like fight changing power. But that true knockout power, like the Angano and the Rumble Johnson, that's very few and far between. I'll never forget the I post. posted a photo on my Instagram today from UFC 202.

That was the infamous press conference where Nate and Connor were chucking water bottles at each other because I was in the front row. And I had a photo of AJ. He was sitting next to Nate Diaz as the press conference. So I posted that photo on my Instagram today. And it reminds, because I was trying to remember, because I've been to a ton of his fights. And I had photos on my camera going back years. And I was trying to remember like the last fight of his I went to. And I knew I'd gone to that one.

So I found that photo posted it. That reminded me of that event. That's the one where he knocked out Glover-Teshara, with the uppercut. And that was like the nastiest, one of the nastiest knockouts. We all know Glover Tashire has a chin of iron. He'd crack Glover to share with an uppercut.

And I thought Glover's head was going to go into fourth row. Like it was the nastiest knockout. He just, I mean, he just absolutely crushed him with one punch and knocked him out. Like, he just had that unbelievable. And people forget,

like he came from wrestling. Like he had wrestling. He was a wrestling, had a wrestling background. But he just had so much power. He was so much. to watch and uh you know like anytime anyone like even the fights he lost you know obviously he didn't win them all but even the fights he lost like people would step in there with like

i wouldn't say intimidated but like a real healthy fear of the kind of power that guy generated like even if he lost he like Daniel cormey told me like when he got clipped by anthony johnson in their first title fight he's like dude he's like i've never been like that was that was terrifying when he hit me like you know just like it's because you and he like scrambled to get away and scrambled like so basically you know save himself from getting knocked out in that moment but that dude like he was just a terrifying force whenever he was in there all he needed was like he had like the the uh the what is it like the the ninja thing like the death touch you know what i mean like he just had that thing like he just touched you and you go down um but like i said it breaks my it breaks my

it breaks my heart on so many different levels but like i said what i'll remember most about him from a personal level is he was just an incredibly nice guy incredibly good dude always made time for me. Anytime I saw him, you know, greet me with a handshake and a hug. And he was, he was, he was, you know, anytime we get on the phone and do an interview, I would be like, I know you don't do a lot of interviews. He's like, I always got time for you. Like he would say something to that effect and always meant something to me. And man, it's just, it's heartbreaking, 38 years old, man. Like, I mean, you know, he'd be, he'd be 78 and you still say, man, it's probably still too early because that dude had a lot of life left to live.

And 38 is just, man, it's just so tragic and so sad. And, and, uh, This one, like I said, this one hurts, man. It really does. Yeah, it just puts into perspective how short life is, right? It just reminds us, you know, even somebody's healthy as he was and being in strong as much of an animal he was. You know, we all are mortal. Absolutely. Even if we got stupid nicknames that are the opposite.

Absolutely. You know, but we really are. And, you know, yeah, that wouldn't, it's always. man just because that's a you know he wasn't like someone that just kind of came and went you know he's been around for a long time and uh you know he's been a part of this sport very heavily for a long time and really he's only kind of left the past couple years really because of the sickness right i'm not sure exactly what the sickness was i've seen something on instagram a little bit ago or twitter where he showed the last time he had posted and i think it might have been like a year ago

you might know better than me but you know you basically said pray for me you know I'm fighting the sickness or something and you know that that's that hurts right there man that hurts to read it does it does and it's just like I said man you don't take life don't take life for granted man and because like I said you've gone gone way too soon and yeah you're right like we look at a lot you know myself included we look at fighters a lot just like you know you're you're kind of superhuman you know because you are in a lot of ways you know you do things physically that the rest of the world can't but even you know even the greatest fighters in the world you know there's some fights you can't win and uh you know sadly that was uh that was a battle that took anthony and it's

just it's just a it's just a it's a tragedy i'll know a better word for it's just a really unfortunate situation and uh my heart goes out to him his to his family and everyone closest to him um you know like i said i'm not going to sit here and profess and say we were best friends but i knew him and i knew him for a long time i've known anthony you know since he started in the ufc and so that's going back in it and whatever it is 10, 15 years. So, you know, again, it's just absolutely heartbreaking. And again, my heart goes out to everyone closest to him.

And, you know, he will be missed. I'll just say that. He will be missed. And like you said, you weren't best friends. I wasn't best friends with him either. But there is something about this sport, this tightening community when you get to a certain level and you've done certain things where everybody has this mutual respect for each other.

And we feel close whether we actually are not. You might be on the other side of the world. But we still feel there's a mutual bond. particularly with fighters, right, where we just, we respect what we all do, and we all go in there and beat each other up to build a hierarchy for the fans and everything. But there's a certain amount of love and respect,

I think, for every fighter. Yeah, so, you know, Anthony Johnson certainly deserve earned a lot of respect from all of us. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, with that being said, Matt, we will shift gears and talk about UFC 281. which was, as we mentioned at the top of the show, an incredible, incredible event.

Let me just kick things off by saying, I was right. I did pick the main event correctly, Matt. I got scoreboard on you. Maybe I should have gone double or nothing in our bet before the fight. I opted not to. I should have.

What a fight, man. Israel, Adissela. That was the first thing you texted me. I told you. Not, wow, what a great fight. It was. Well, listen, listen, listen, I have to be, because ultimately, and the thing about it is, and this is the reality. When I said, like, I told you so jokingly, but in all seriousness, like, it wasn't upset.

Like, he was not the favorite. Alex Pereira was not the favorite, you know, and Israel Adasanya was up three rounds to one in that fight. He was doing exactly what he should have been doing. But I said on Twitter at the end of the third round, a lot of people retweeted it, and it's true, I said, Israel Adasanya is up three, one. But the end of the fourth round, Alex was. kind of charging forward and hitting him with some shots. And I said, you cannot play that game with Alex Pereira. He will absolutely light you up and put you out.

If you let him stick around and you let him march you down and walk you down and back you up. And that's exactly what happened in the fifth round. I wasn't, you know, I'm not sitting here saying I was the, you know, I was Nostradamus calling my shot. I just said that's what you cannot do. You cannot allow that dude to march forward, back you up and start throwing punches. And that's what he did. Now, I don't think Adasanya was playing it safe. I don't think that's the case.

I just think that the Pereira came out with a mindset and a mentality that he's like, I got to get a finish or I'm going to lose this fight. And he went for it, man. And boy, I tell you what, he just, I mean, he really did go for it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you got to respect the way he fought. I really thought by the fourth, fifth round. I mean, I think it was the third round where Pereira looked for a gas.

I mean, he looked like he was slowing down, looked like he had total control. He was deciding where the fight was taking place. he wasn't backed up against the fence so much. And that was the only thing that was making me never saw a whole time as a Izzy fan and picking Izzy and kind of, you know, rooting for Izzy as a, you know, just as a fighter. You know, he just kept backing up against the cage a lot. And we kind of, it's almost like we were just waiting for that little slip.

We knew it only takes just that little bit and it just eventually happened. But in that third round, it looked like, to me, it looked like he was in good control. I think it was around third round, maybe fourth round, when Alex came out and they seemed like Izzy let off the gas. Like he felt a little bit too much control.

Let off the gas, let Alex recover. And, I mean, you've got to give all fucking props in the world to Alex, man. That guy just bit down his mouthpiece, walked forward and, you know, just kept throwing shots, man. And, you know, I thought his corner did a great job of

firing him up in between the fourth and fifth round. he did exactly what he was told and he went out there and got the job done man i mean you know it was so it was so similar to their kickboxing match right and well because because Israel had him heard to the end of that first round he tagged it with that right hand and if that had gone on it that had another 30 seconds like that might not have made it out of the first round like it just went like it was that close going at 30 seconds no he got hit he was wobbled badly and then and then the horn sounded or if he would have been able to keep going because again on the feet up to that point

like what I saw in the difference was really how it played out Israel was really good with his hands or that Alex was a little better with his kicks they both had some kicks but Alex was a little stronger with his kicks Israel but Israel's hands were on point he was laser just laser-sided on his on his on his punches

but the problem is is I think technically he was a better you know boxer quote unquote boxer but Alex has that X factor which is exactly what I said going into the fight the X factor is he has the power He has that power. He has new.

And it seemed like with Izzy constantly backing up to the gauge and so much of that fight taking place right there, Izzy was coming up, I mean, Alex was coming up short for a law of the early rounds. And it seemed like he just discovered, he spent enough time in that position where he just knew, I just got to put another inch on this and it's going to crack him. And that's exactly what happened. You know, you could always spend so much time in that single position. until a guy like Alex is going to get a read

and he's going to find something. It's just not a good spot to be, especially when you're fighting Alex Brer. And I think Izzy knew that, and probably knew in the fight, probably didn't want to be there. So you got to give all the credit to Alex for putting him there too.

Yeah. Also, I did notice one thing that we saw in that fight just from the face off is that Alex, when they started the fight, I said this privately to some people. I was like, Alex looks like a freaking heavyweight in there. Like, he is a big, big dude. The one thing that Adasanya had as an advantage over Whitaker, over Vitori, over, you know, pretty much every other middleweight he's fought is he's been a longer, taller fighter, reach and height.

Now, not saying he's stronger because he's kind of a skinnier middleweight. He's not like a big balked up, you know, Apollo Costa looking dude, but he's a taller, longer fighter. So he uses that reach and distance very effectively in his fights. That was kind of negated last night. Alex was this big and as long and this tall. And I think that kind of, you know, I think in moments forced Israel to fight a little differently, but he was still winning. I mean, he was still winning the fight. But then, man, like when that finishing sequence happened, I was just like, because he kept backing up.

He kept backing up. And I was just like, this is just, this is a recipe for disaster. You cannot back up. It's like getting trapped in the corner in a boxing match. Like, you just cannot allow yourself to get trapped there because there's no exit. And he had no exit from there. He was doing a good job in earlier of grabbing the. clinch and kind of turning things around and getting out of there.

Into that fourth round going that fifth round, I was like he keeps backing up and just letting Alex come forward. That is just a bad idea. Yeah, as I say, you can only do that so many times with a guy like Alex, he's going to figure it out. It's funny, like I met Alex once after a glory match, and I remember how big he looked. But meeting him was one thing.

Izzy I've actually trained with before and sparred with. and I remember just how big he was and I've trained with a lot of middle weights I was like geez like he is so freaking big and Alex just towered over him it looked like he I mean maybe not towered over him but he did not make

I mean well how would you say how would you say it looked it looked like it looked like the fight with Janbollahovitch where it looked like he was fighting a light heavyweight yeah he looked like Israel was fighting like heavyweight yeah he's fighting in a different weight class right like it was yeah it was a There's a guy coming up a weight class to fight him.

That's exactly what it looked like. God, man. You know, again, you just, that was my takeaway from the whole fight, man. You can always spend so much time with a guy like that with your back against the cage. He's going to find a spot at some point. And, to his credit, I mean, he dodged tons of shots and performed very well. Got a way out of that cage. Like you said, clinched up multiple times.

He even got a takedown once. You know, it was, I don't know, it looked like a white belt grappling match for a minute, but it was, you know, Izzy did a great job, ended up on top, did all these great things. And we talked about it before the fight. It only takes one, man, with Alex. And I think it took more than one, but it was one to change the fight and put him in a position to finish. I know after the fight, Israel pretty much said he kind of accepted the stoppage, his corner talk to him. And, you know, but he said, you know, I kind of wish I'd gone out on my shield.

I know, like, you've been a victim of what I've considered to be bad stoppages in the past. But me personally, I want to get your opinion on this, Matt, because again, you're a fighter. I'm not. But, like, in that moment, I was completely okay with the stoppage. Like, would it have been okay to let Israel go down? Sure. But it didn't look like he was doing anything to get out of there. And that's the problem.

Like, that was the issue. He went down once and got back up and he was just eating punches. He was turning his head and eating punches. And he wasn't offering any kind of real resistance. And in that moment, it's almost like, how. much like because some guys just don't go down you and I both know this some guys will just not go down for whatever freakish reason there

is they just will not drop and actually get knocked out unconscious and dude live to fight another day as my opinion with that like I think they should do an immediate rematch I think it's warranted there's nobody really deserving of a title shot like honestly like he's

you know out of Sanya pretty much cleared out the division so there's nobody who's really a legit number one container waiting in the wing so I think you do an immediate rematch and In this case, lived to fight another day. I thought it was a good stoppage. What did you think of the stoppage? You know, I didn't think it was a bad stoppage,

by any means I would have liked to see him let it go longer. I don't hate that he stopped it the way that he did at the time they did. But I would have liked to see it. If I were that ref, I would have let it go longer. You know, the fact is I don't think Izzy was getting out of there. I don't think Izzy thought he was getting out of there. I don't think anybody thinks he was. going to get out there. But in this sport, we have seen crazier things, right?

No, yeah. I mean, this sport just never fails to blow your mind. So I would have liked to see him get a chance and I would have given him a chance, but also don't hate the rep for stopping it when he did. Maybe he was taking shots. And when he did stop it, you know, Izzy took a really, really hard shot. But I just thought, you know, the reason, like, if I were the rough, I would have a little bit more time was, you know, he still had his bearings about it. He was still attempting to dodge shots, whether he was successful at it or not. You know, he was at least attempting. And this is

also a world title fight. You know, and, you know, you got to recognize, too. Like, you know, it's a fifth round of a world title fight. You know the fighters. You know the guy's a multiple time world champion. So I think you got to respect those kinds of things. And I'm 90% of the time. I'm probably an advocate. They should have let it go longer, whether it was me or someone else. I think that's just the sport to wear in. I mean, they should give you every chance that you have to get out of there. It's just such a thin line, right? Like, because if he takes, like, you know, we saw a really vicious knockout on the undercard. Ryan Spann knocked out Dominic Reyes. That was a vicious one-shot knockout. And Reyes

went down hard. Like, the thin line is if prayer comes in with like an uppercut and, and is he just gets absolutely crumbled and goes down like Mirko Krokop style where his knees buckle under him or whatever. Then we're talking about a late stoppage, right? Then we're saying, oh, you didn't do your job. You didn't protect the fighter. He took too much damage, you know?

So it's a thin line. And in this case, like I said, to me, you err on the side of caution. It wasn't like, it wasn't like he took two punches and you said, no, no, no more. Like he was eating, you know, whatever it was, like 19 shots in a row without really And he did go down. He did go down and just kind of got back up again. But he went down once. And in that moment, like, I just think you got to err on the side of caution.

Because, again, it could have been one or two more. And then we're talking about him getting flat, you know, just absolutely flattened face first on the canvas. Then we're saying, oh, my God, why didn't you stop it, you know, minutes ago or whatever? So it's a, like I said, it's a real thin line. I get it, like what you're saying. And I've never talked to a fighter who said, you know, I wouldn't want to go out on my shield. I totally understand that. But to me, that's a real thin line there.

and I'm okay with the stoppage because the alternative could have been worse. You know, and you're right. You're absolutely right. There are instances where guys make incredible, ridiculous comebacks. Then I think about, like, your fight with, was it was a Pete Sell? Is that the one I'm thinking of? Where the referee just, it was Eve Levine's. I'll never forget this.

He was just like, I think Pete Sell owed him money or something because he's just like, I'm going to let this kid get murdered in there because he kept getting punched and going down. I'm like, Jesus Christ, what are you doing? It's like, stop this fight. it wasn't that bad like what happened to Israel wasn't that bad but like again I kind of err on the side of caution like let him live to fight another day

and I think we got to do an immediate rematch right like it's the only one that makes sense definitely got to do an immediate rematch but I think that's where I would probably disagree and where most fighters probably would disagree is we don't want to err on the side of caution we'd rather get flatlined

and be carried out on a stretcher in there and I think you know that's just a risk that we're willing to take. So I understand with commissions and, you know, there are actual health practitioners that judge this stuff and are watching and there's actual politicians. You know, there's all these things that play that have an effect on this.

But Alice's fighters, I guarantee you it's not a single one of us that doesn't want to go out on our shield or on a stretch of them. Like, we want to go until, I mean, we'll die in there, you know, so it's like, we're never going to say it was too early or too late. I mean, so that's what, you know, that's kind of where I'm not with that. I'm with, I'm with Disney. Bring back Steve Mazzagati, man. Let's let these fights just go, man.

I liked it. He said that personally. Yeah, no, listen, I get it. And this is the title fight, you know, it's fifth round, you know, maybe. Again, I get it all, like I said. But again, I still don't have a problem with the stop. I think it was okay in that moment. Let me ask this real quick for you.

move on to the comane and the other fights of the card. This is the third loss for Israel against Pereira. Now, technically the first fight was a close decision. A lot of people were saying Israel could have got it. I get it. It was a close fight. Second fight, he was having moments. Had Alex hurt.

And then, of course, he came back and got the knockout. But, you know, we saw even in the lead out, like the walkout and then the stair downs and everything. Like, Israel was very businesslike. So a lot of times he likes to toy with his opponents, kind of getting their. head a little bit, have some fun and beat them mentally, a little bit of the Connor game plan where you kind of beat them before you beat them. He couldn't really do that with Alex, because Alex already had a 2-0, you know, record against him. I'm not saying it's going to necessarily change what happens in the rematch, assuming it happens, but am I wrong in thinking that

it can get to you? Like, Israel, and I get it, Israel couldn't fight his normal fight against the striker as elite and dangerous as Alex, because there's just so much, you know, peril in fighting a guy like that. So he can't fight exactly the same. I get all that. But you wonder, like, at what point is it maybe a bit of a hindrance mentally? He's not lost this guy three times. Like, it's not to say he can't come back.

It's not to say he can't win the fourth fight. But I think that I'm not saying it altered his performance on Saturday because he was winning. He was up 3-1. But I just wonder if, like, at some point that doesn't become a bit of a hindrance on you that this guy now has you beating you three times and knocked you out twice. You know what?

If there's a guy that can do it, I think it's his rodosani. You know, I've been big on him since day one. I've met him. I've hung out with him before. I train him with him. And this guy, I think, just has a solid of a mind

as anybody in this sport. I think that he can do it. But I think you have a great point, too. Somewhere in the back of his mind, he's got to feel like there's a fucking Alex Pereira curse on him. You know what I mean? Like two times.

you know like two times he had him hurt you know seconds from finish twice and then he beat him the first time according to I think most people would probably agree it was to probably uh you know it was close enough to win a robbery but you know so he's got to feel like you know there's just some something in the fucking air

like when he fights out you know what I mean like there's some mystical shit going on or something like the universe is against him but again at first somebody that could do it. It's busy, man. I think he's got every bit of the ability to do it. When we talk about other contenders, I wonder about what about Hamzaa? I mean, is he, you know, are they going to give that to him? You know, they gave Alex a shot off of a three, what, three, four fight win streak in the UFC. I don't know, Hamzaa hasn't fought the top guys yet, but I think that's the night, the nightmare matchup for Alex, probably for Izzy too. But

for Alex, I can't imagine a worse matchup. I can't, I don't see any other worst matchups on maybe Brunson and, you know, as I'm not going to get this fight. I wish, I, you know, I, I think anything's possible. I think the problem is that, that Hamzot keeps playing, you know, keeps playing games with like which division he's going to go to because it looked like he was going to do middleweight, then he decides to go to Welterway. Now they're negotiating this for this fight with Colby Covington.

Listen, I agree with you. I think Hamzot charged his right. supposedly they're working on it um but like yeah you're right like in theory you're right like he absolutely is the nightmare matcher for both these guys his wrestling is physicality like he may just muscle both of them around and put him on the ground but i think he needs at least one win against the elite middleweights and i'm not i think you could do it but you know if you're going to do it like i thought after he had the whole weight cutting disaster and lost out on the ne deez fight and ended up fighting and beating kevin holland like they should have just booked him in paulo

Costa, they had so much heat coming out of that thing and they really did not like each other. And Paulo, we know Paula, dude, he's a monster. He's a big, strong, physically, you know, intimidating middleweight. That would be a really fun fight. You beat Paulo Costa. I got no problem giving you a title shot, but that didn't happen. And so it's like, I agree, but he's more established at Welchweight. If he's going to do middleweight, great.

Have him beat, you know, have him fight and beat Marvin Vittori. Have him fight and beat, you know, Robert Whitaker. have him fight and beat one of those guys and then give him the title shot while you're waiting do izzie and and otisanya or izzie and uh and Pereira four four or two or however you want to number it but i think he's got to establish himself a middleway stop pussy footing around and saying i'm gonna be a welterweight i'm a middleweight i'll be a welter way i'm a middleweight pick one go for that title and then worry about the other title like he just keeps bouncing back and forth yeah i think that's a great point yeah i kind of forgot about that but that's why you're the rider and i'm the fighter Yeah, I would love to see Whitaker and Hobbsott. Because I think Whitaker is probably the best matchup, the worst matchup for Hamzat, the best stylistically against them. I think Whitaker's probably got the best style to beat Hamzad. I would love to see that one.

But I guess I forgot. Kobe. And that makes for a really interesting fight. Right? And then, you know, it probably gets a title shot if he beats Kobe. and he's probably a stylistically a good matchup for Leon. Yeah, it's interesting what happens. I mean, like I said, Hamzaad's a monster,

but again, he's just got to get those fights. I mean, he has the winner of Gilbert Burns. He beats Colby Covington, of course. It's a title contender right there. Or, you know, like I said, go beat Ballocoste. Your title contender, they just pick one, do it. You know, that's kind of my thing. Pick one, go for it.

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delivered with Uber Eats well almost almost anything so no you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats but iced tea ice cream or just plain old ice Yes we deliver those Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes, because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. We don't have to spend a lot of time in the co-main event. It pretty much played out how everybody, except for me, apparently, thought it was going to play out. Zhang Wei went out there and pretty much mauled Carlos Sparza, choked her out in the second round.

I honestly, I said this on the show. I thought Carla would surprise some people. I thought she would have a better performance than that. But Zhang did exactly what everyone thought she was going to do. She outpowered, outmuscled, you know, really just kind of bullied Carlos Bars in there. Even in the grappling exchanges, which is where I thought Carla would actually have a bit of an advantage or at least slow her down a little bit. She did take her down, you know, once early. I think it was in the first round.

But then just, again, Jane Lee Lee took her down. She just ended up on top. in this family. She, I mean, she, yeah, she ended up on, I mean, but I thought, I thought she would make, I thought she would make it harder on Zhang Waley to do what

Zhang Wiley does. And then, you know, you dip into that third, fourth, fifth round, you know, Carla might be able to push and kind of get the decision. But none of that happened, man, and none of that matter. Jane Wally went out there and just bullied her around and choked around in the second round

and did exactly what pretty much everybody else thought she was going to do, yourself included. Yeah, I told you, Damon. you're right about that one you're right about that one you're right about that here's my thing with jang like she because she's i mean she is like she is so freakishly strong and she is so good like it almost it weirdly felt like when it was over it felt like a mismatch which is ridiculous because carlo was the champion yeah yeah i totally agree and man that was what a performance by saying

man you know you guys got it to her she did even better than i mean i picked her to win I picked her to win handedly, but I thought Carla would give her a lot more problems than that. I thought she would at least push her against the cage more, slower down a lot more. She didn't very slow her down at all until she got on top, I think, at the end of round one. And, man, Zang just had her way with her. Yeah. What is just great technique all around? It's one of those fights where it's like you just feel like some styles, you know, styles make fights.

And that was one that was just stylistically, just a nightmare for Carlos Sparza. and now here's my thing real quick before we move on. Jang Wei Lee is now the champion again. Of course, she has two losses to Rose Nami Yunus. Rose is also still out there, number one or number two contender in the world. I said this on Twitter on Saturday.

Can we please get somebody else in there for the title fight? Amanda Limo, she's had an incredible knockout of her, Marina Rodriguez. Put her in there. Listen, I have nothing against Rose Nami Unis. I love Rose Nami Unis. I adore Rosemunis. She's amazing. But she's coming off a loss in a really,

ugly, ugly fight to Carlos Barza. Yes, she has two wins over Zhang Li, but like every title fight in the past like four years is pretty much involved Zhang Wei Li, Rose Zombie Eunice, Carlos Sparzer, Yawani, and Jacek. Now, that speaks volumes about how good they are, but it also gets a little boring when it's the same like four people fighting for the belt constantly. Now, you can argue and say, well, other people should earn it. I get that. But listen, Rose is coming off a loss.

It was an ugly, ugly fight. Let her go out and beat one other person, then give her the first. rematch with Jane Lee leave for no time being give Zhang Amanda Limos let Jessica and Drash come back down to 115 something I thought first that you would say Rose versus Carla again rematch

right let them rematch Does anyone really want to see that again though I mean really does anyone want to see that again right I mean you know we can talk about whether people want to see it or whether it's the right fight to make too right the, you know, the situation to me calls for that fight. Lemos could either go straight to the title or maybe she fights Rose for the number one

contender or Carlo. I'm not sure. Yeah, I just, I would just like to see somebody different get in there. You know what I mean? Like there was an argument to be made that, you know, Marina Rodriguez at the time, you know, deserved the title shot more than Jenks. She was on like a four-fight win streak. she looked really, really good.

You know, she had a split decision lost to Carla to fight that a lot of people thought she won. I didn't. I thought Carla won, but a really close fight. And, yeah, like, I just want to see some new blood in there, man. Like, like, Straw weight is a pretty deep division, yet we just keep seeing these same three or four people getting recycled in the title fights. Let at least let Rose get one win. Like, let her go out and beat, you know, Jan Jan Nan, who just had a great performance. She beat McKinsey Dern.

Let her go and beat her, let her get to fight back with Carla, or let her. her beat, you know, somebody else. And then, you know, she wins that, sure, give her the title shot. I got no problem with that. But in the meantime, like, I just want to see somebody else get an opportunity. You know what I mean? Just something just to mix it up a little bit. Isn't it hard to deny Rosa when she beat the current champion?

Twice. I mean, she beat her twice. Yeah, she beat her twice. Like I said, my only argument against Rosa, she is technically coming off a loss. Like, that's the thing. Like, I'd like to see her at least get a win, you know, get a win and then and then get your title. I got a problem.

But, you know, and the loss, well, it's not a bad loss. It was just an ugly fight. Like, she didn't do anything in that fight. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. That's a-no, good thought. I mean, you should never get a title shot coming off a loss. That's just ridiculous unless it's an immediate rematch, like,

is he, you know, if he gets to fight out again, right? Yeah. Any other loss, yeah, of course, it doesn't make sense at all. Yeah. Now, the fight of the night, of course, Dustin Porrier and Michael, Chandler pretty much played out how you and I thought it would. Complete and utter chaos. Insanity.

Chandler hurt Porreier early. Porriet came back at the end of that first round. Then Chandler actually turned to his wrestling. He went to his wrestling and won a pretty dominant second round. Then he ran out of gas and Porre just put it on him and did what we thought he would do. Went out there and started being the tactical brawler and beat him and then ended up choking him out when he went for an ill-advised takedown and ended up getting reversed to get the choke in the third round. I mean, that fight was exactly, it's one of those things like you always hope those fights play out, like the way you expect them to. But, you know, it just seems like if you put Dustin Porier, Michael Chandler or Justin Gaichy in the cage, you're going to get what you pay for.

Absolutely. I think Dustin's beat both those guys now. He does. He does. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, how much, how much props can you give to Dustin Porrier, man? Like, what a fucking soldier, man.

you just got to, you know, man, he can't even say enough good things about him. He just carries himself well, speaks well, just does all the right things, man. It seems like he just can't do no wrong. Even when he loses, when he loses, we feel bad for him. Like, damn, wish he would have done better. It's crazy. It's crazy, too, because he hasn't, like, he's come up short in his two bids to become champion, an undisputed champion.

He lost Habib and he lost Olivera. But when you look at the guys he's fought, I think the list was, like, in his last 10 fights, he's fought nine current or former world champions from USC and Bellator. Like, his list of opponents is utterly ridiculous. And it's kind of crazy to think about, like he hasn't actually been an undisputed champion, even though he has some of the most unbelievable wins in the sport.

And, like, you always feel like he's just one fight away. He's always one fight away from being there and being the champion. Listen, he has a tough road to get there now. Islam Makachem is no joke. That dude may be championed for a while. But Dustin's a dog, man. That dude went out there and just fought his ass off. And I mean, it's just, I know it sounds weird to say it.

It's just a pleasure to watch that dude do work. Like, it's just an absolute pleasure to see him go out there do work. Yeah, it's just unfortunate. The guys that have been champion who are just the worst style matchups for him. You know, that's all it's come down to. And, you know, wrong place, wrong time. but like you said, you know, he beats these guys that are former world champions. If it would have been a fight earlier, he would have fought them for the title.

So, you know, just a great guy, though, man. I just, I love watching the guy fight. And God, that fight lived up to expectations through and through, man. Chandler, I don't know what you do with him now, though. You know, Poyer, you know, it's pretty obviously, you know, he's going to fight another top contender. He's going to be somewhere at the top. But Chandler, he's like two and three now if I'm right. Yep, you're right, two and three in the UFC.

And listen, every fight Chandler's been in has been exciting and been fun. His three losses are to Justin Gachey, Dustin Pori, and Charles Oliver. There's absolutely no shame in that. But, you know, you wonder, like, is he going to be the guy who's always going to be a really exciting fun fight to watch, but never quite be a champion kind of level? And listen, there's nothing wrong with being a guy who goes on and gets an extra 50 grand in your paycheck every single time you fight. Let me be clear about that. Like, there's nothing wrong with being just an exciting pay-per-view fighter who's going to be absolutely dropped down. Every time you, every time you

watch the guy perform, you know what you're going to get. But I know Michael Chandler really wants to be champion. And you start to wonder at two and three in losses to, you know, the former champion, the interim champion, and another interim champion, like you wonder, is he ever going to get to that peak? Is he ever going to reach that pinnacle? And you can't help but question. Like, at this point, like whatever he is, like 35, 36 years old, there's a lot of miles on those tires. You just wonder, like, I love Michael Chandler. I think he's amazing and a great dude, by the way, like a really, really good dude.

But you can't help but wonder, like, will he ever quite get to that level? And, you know, I mean, you can't help but wonder that with his three losses aren't bad losses, but those three losses are the guys you have to go through to get to Makachab, to get to Khab or whoever, you know what I mean? Like, you've got to beat those guys. And if you can't beat those guys, you're not going to be. You're never going to be the champion. And I think there's a certain level of this sport where,

you know, there's wins and losses a lot of times are determined on strategies, right? Like we know Michael Chandler can bang with anyone. We know how athletic he is. We know how strong he is. We know how tough he is. But his strategies, we have to start questioning, you know, are you going to come in with the actual strategy

and try to, you know, just try to win a fight? And that's what he's going to have to do. He absolutely could be a world champion. I think he would be a, has a great chance to beat anybody in this division. But if he's going to continue to go out there and fighting by just throwing caution to the wind and relying on his athleticism

or that one big shot and just exploding in hard as he can and swinging as hard as he can for the fences, that's not going to beat these kind of guys. No, you're absolutely right. like and there's absolutely nothing wrong with being the fifth best lightway in the world like I'm saying that as a compliment like there's absolutely nothing wrong with that but to be champion you have to be able to beat these guys and like in a way like as as exciting and as as great as as Michael Chandler has been like you almost kind of want him to go out there and win a boring decision

just go out there and like just get a wrestle a guy and put him down in the ground and beat the hell out of him and you know win a fight like maybe not the way you're used to seeing him win but just to prove you can do it and and like you said stand to a strategy, stick to a game plan, and just beat a guy, you know, like not go out there to have just an absolute, utter crazy three-round war until one of you falls over, have the kind of fight where when it's over, they're going to say, man, like, that was just domination. You know, we haven't really said, I mean, he knocked out Tony, he knocked out Tony Ferguson, knocked him dead earlier this year.

But that's after Tony had caught him quite a bit early in the fight. Like, Tony didn't look bad in that fight. You know what I mean? Dan Hooker, that fight was over pretty quick. that was a two-minute fight. Chandler just kind of went out and steamrolled him. But even in the, even in the Tony Ferguson fight, like it wasn't like it was a one-way traffic. Like he got caught a few times early.

Tony had some moments. And then, of course, you know, Tony got caught with that front kick and it was over. But it's almost like, like if you're going to give him, like let's say like Raphael Fisiev or, you know, Matush Gamrod or one of these other kind of, you know, up and coming like top 10 guys. Like I almost want him to go out and win a boring decision just to see if he can do it. know what I mean? Because you wonder, like, is it in his head where he's like, he has to be so entertaining? Does he have the ability to just go out there and grind a guy and beat him dominantly in a 30-26 decision? I don't know if he has that in him.

I mean, I know he does. I know he does. I'm just saying, like, I don't know if he'll ever want to do that. Yeah, yeah. No, I know exactly what you said. You know, does he have it in him? Absolutely. But will he allow that part of him to come out?

There's a different question. You always double quote, right? you fight with your brain first and then you fight with your heart. And that's what I would like to see to do. Go out and fight with your brain. Be smart. Win the fight. Be assured of a win.

And look, that's not going to be easy. And there's going to come a time where you do have to show your heart. We already know you got that. So go out and get the easy win, get the, you know, come home unscathed for once, you know, and be back in the gym Monday for once. And, you know, you keep fighting. That time is going to come where you do. have to suck it up and you have to bite down your mouthpiece and just start swinging for the fences.

And we already know that you can do that. So there's no reason to go out starting like that. I think guys like even like Dustin Poir, I don't think he necessarily goes out with the intention of having a war. You know, he goes out. He's fighting with Chandler very intelligently. I thought, you know, I think he made a little, a couple of small mistakes. And I think just because Chandler was so explosive, you know, he was probably just not expecting, the speed, you know, and Chandler came right after him too. You know, you got to, can't forget that part. But, you know, Poyer is going to, I think he's going to look to make the easy fight first, and then it just turns into a brawl, you know, and we know he can do that.

You know, I'd like to see the same amount of Chandler personally. Go out there and make it easy on yourself. Those hard fights are going to come. You're in the fucking UFC, bro. Like, those are, those things are going to come, whether you like it or not. Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, there's nothing, again, there's nothing wrong with being the number five guy. There's nothing wrong with going out there when he fight of the night and performance tonight every single time your bank account will be happy. But if you really want to be a champion, if your goal is to be the UFC champion, you can't always have those kind of fights. You just can't. Think about how much damage, the most damage, Khabib to Nurmaika Madov took in his entire career than did Michael Chandler took last night. Like, At some point, at some point, defense has to matter. Like, you have to be willing to just go out there and just beat.

And Khabi was exciting. Kabe went out there and just mauled people. Like, it wasn't like Kibb was a boring fighter. He went out there just absolutely mauled people. And I know, I'm not saying you have to be Khabi, but I'm just saying, like, there are ways to win a fight where you're not, like, going to the hospital afterwards and broken nose and broken orbital bones. Like you said, getting back at the gym on Monday, you know what I mean?

Like, there's a way to win where you don't just go out of there looking like you just got hit by a truck. Yeah. realistically, look, we say we want to please the fans. You know, I thought I was trapped myself, right? The fans, of course, they want to see these crazy fights, and they're going to love you for that. But guess who they love the most? They love winners.

Like, GSP is more famous than basically all of us, right? And he never had really any crazy wars. I mean, he had some pretty tough fights with Johnny Hendricks and stuff, but he didn't have wars like Chandler or Poirier had or like I have had. but he's every bit as love because he goes out there and wins and that's what people want to see yeah absolutely and like i said Dustin pori after the fact you know he said he likes the idea of fighting somebody like benille derrush my god what a great fight that would be deriuch's looked like a monster he just went out there and kind of schooled matush gamrott in his last fight he's on

like an eight-fight win streak i'm a massive massive fan of benil deriuch um i think that's the perfect fight i know they announced islam makochev is going to fight alexander volkanowsky February, champ versus champ. Seems like Porreier and Darrius should be a great, you know, fight to throw on that card, have them as kind of like the backup fight. Darius deserves a big fight. As one, how many in a row now? Eight in a row, I believe.

Eight in a row, yeah, like, I think Darius should wait. Like, he's in line for the title shot. I think he should have a freaking title shot. I think he should just wait for his title shot. I would have no problem. If it's guaranteed, I have no problem with that. I just know how the sport works. nothing's guaranteed, you know what I mean?

I don't mean yet. You know, but that would be a great fight. He's deserving of it though. He is. We know this. He is deserving. If he waits, he should get the title shot. And I think he should wait.

You know, fighting Chandler is a risky fight. Like, even if you can be 10 times better than it's a risky fight. That's an explosive athletic son of a bitch. It's going to crack you at some point in the fight. 99% guaranteed. Yeah, it's interesting. I know Chandler said afterwards, wants to welcome Connor back.

And I think that is still a great fight. Chandler and Connor would be a great fight. I mean, talk about like losing to Poria, yet you win the Connor sweepstakes. Not a bad way to go for Michael Chandler if that happens. And listen, like I said, Michael Chandler's going to be exciting no matter what he does. But again, do you want to be the number five guy or do you want to be champion? Because you want to be champion going out there having crazy back and forth bloody wars may not get you there. I mean, listen, I know it's a knock.

people are going to say, you know, he beat him, but I mean, you can even say the same thing, a little bit about Justin Gaichi. Like, Gachi's a guy who goes out there and has these crazy, just insane wars, but he's not reaching a pinnacle either. I mean, he hasn't. He lost to Pori, he lost the Khabib. He lost Oliver. Same kind of thing.

Like, you have to eventually get a little more technical. Porre had to do that. Porre was a victim of his own success early on. He used to go out there, bite down on the mouthpiece, throw caution to the wind. One of us is going to go down. And more oftentimes than not, Dusty Poirier won those fights. but there were times where he got caught, he got clipped, he got finished, he got beat. He had to stop getting into those kind of fights.

And now, Dostaporriere is legitimately one of the three best lightweights in the world. Can Gagee and Chandler make those adjustments to where they have to balance the excitement and the explosiveness? We're just going out there and winning, even if it's ugly, winning. Like you said, winning is what matters. Yeah, you don't go searching for the war, right? It's going to come. You're in the UFC, bro. right you're fighting the best in the world like you're going to end up in a war if you do this long

enough and everybody's going to see whether you're for real we already see the chambers for real we already see poories for real we already know they can do more and that it's going to be a you know it's going to be a rough night you know like both people are going to be bloody and you know spitting out blood and, you know, we already know this. So I don't think they need to prove that anymore. And that's just my two cents. I just don't think they need to prove it. You know, I think they should go out there and win some fights.

And I think my whole point is that I think they're just holding their own selves back. They're kind of their own worst enemies, Gigi included, you know, with with Jana. They're just their own worst enemies rather than playing you smart. They're just trying to, I don't know if they fall in love with the knockout or what it is but um you know i think it's easy to do to just go out there and want to have an exciting fight and you're in front of a big crowd under the lights and you're fired up and excited and and those fights are fun man they're they're an absolute fucking blast but you know i just hate seeing guys like with chanler's potential and and just kind of thrown it away

due to a lack of strategy yeah no you're absolutely right it's true um we talked about it on our last episode, Matt, and man, I tell you what, like, this sport is unforgiving. There is no, like, there is no, like, there are very few dream endings in this sport. You and I know this. Like, very few fighters go out on wins. Even fewer go out as champions. And we talked about all the admiration and love we had for Frankie Edgar. Man, it just, I mean, it ended in such dramatic fashion.

Chris Gutierrez with the jumping knee and knocked him out. And that is, you know what that is? like, listen, I love Frankie. I'll love Frankie forever, and Frankie's a legend. He should go into the UFC Hall of Fame next year for sure. Yeah. But it's a harsh reminder that very rarely do you get to walk out in your final fight. Like, you rarely, like, that's just the nature of this sport.

It's almost like you have to be carried out in your final fight to know it's truly over. Because you wonder, like, if Frankie had gone out there and put on a classic Frankie Edgar performance and won 30, 27, or clipped him and caught him and knocked him out. He said it was over. He said he was done. But what are the chances that maybe he says, oh, you know what? I felt pretty damn good in there.

Maybe I'll get one more. I feel like sometimes as that as bad as it is, like you almost need to lose to just realize, like it's time to, you know, time to hang him up. But still, that was just, that was heartbreaking, man. I know Chris Gutierrez was going through a lot himself. I know his coach had cancer, like the week of the fight and all that kind of craziness. like, and you saw, like, he went over and checked on Frankie right away.

It almost kind of broke his heart to do that to a legend. That's the sport. But, man, somebody said it once upon a time is true, man. This sport is a cruel bitch. Like, there is just no, like, there is no, you know, there is no chill with this sport, man. There are no, this is a dangerous, deadly game. And, uh, like I said, very few fighters walk out of the cage.

Most of them get carried out. That's a fact, man. It was sad to see that happen to breakie, but, you know, I've known Chris for a long time. I've trained with him before he was in the UFC or anything. When I heard I find announced that kind of an idea. I know how good Chris is, man. And, you know, he's a terrible matchup for Frankie.

I just wish it would have gave Frankie a better matchup. I'm not sure why they, it seems like that's kind of what they do. You know, why not give him an older guy or somebody that's also kind of on their way out? or, you know, even just someone that's just a wrestler or, I don't know, something, you know, just a more favorable matchup. I mean, I don't know. It seems like there's some way to make that happen, but it kind of just everything worked in Chris's favor and, you know, more power to him, right?

But, you know, he went out there and did his job and can't take nothing away from that. Oh, hey, Chris looked fantastic. It's just, man, it's just heartbreaking. You don't want to, like I said, you just, you don't want your last image of alleged to be that. You know what I mean? Like, you don't want your last image. And listen, his record is cemented. His legacy is cemented.

He's done so much in the sport. He'll always be remembered. It's kind of, you know, but like I said, it's just like watching Anderson Sylvan, his last couple of UFC fights losing, getting knocked out and things like that. And you just kind of like, man, I just, I hate seeing it. You know, I hate seeing guys like that go out in that particular way. But, you know, it is what it is. And, you know, like I said, Frankie's done.

But again, his legacy security, you still just hate to see him get knocked out like that. Like, I don't, there's no two ways around. It just sucks. Seeing a guy go out like that. real quick when we closed down on the show, Matt, you know, we had so many incredible finishes on the card. I mentioned Ryan Spann with that huge knockout. Hinato Moikano had a big win over Brad Riddell.

Aaron Blanchfield put an end to the Molly McCann hype. We had a lot of big fights. You talk about this sport being a cruel bitch. How about Dominic Grace, man? Man. I think somebody tweeted a bit, tweeted it. You know, if that one judge hadn't gave a fight to John Jones, you know, this guy's whole life would have been different.

right now he's on what three-fight knockout streak i think yeah knocked out by boehovic knocked out by yerry and now knocked out by ryan span and uh and that's four losses in a row technically with the jones fight you know that's four in a row he was undefeated before that undefeated now lost four in a row yeah boy what what it's a fucking cruel bitch of sport man it is it is exactly right but how about fucking ryan span though come on man we have my god this guy this guy said he never trained before there's a jab to knock out Dom Rays come on man this is something special here

I want to see where this guy goes that guy when he said I never trained more than three weeks for a fight I was like holy crap like that's the kind of dude you wonder if he actually does get serious about it like what's going to happen because he's got all the potential in the world huge power insane power and he trains as a good team Fortisome amaze a good team

Seif's a really really good coach if they do get him in the gym and start doing six eight-week camps, dude. This guy is a monster. Like, I'm not saying he's going to be champion, but tons of potential there, man. He looked really, I mean, he looked really good last night. Yeah, and just his build, too, like how long with his

freaking arms? I mean, the way he's built, I mean, he's the perfect body type for M.MA. Yeah, I just can't wait to see what this guy goes. Yeah, and let's also real quick talk about hype versus reality because hype is great. And in this sport, you know, kind of

I mean, fortunately and unfortunately, you know, hype sometimes matters more than skills sometimes, not say it's right or wrong, but you and I both know hype, you know, gets people attention, hype gets you big marquee fights, hype gets you money. But there's Sean O'Malley hype where you are legitimately a good fighter and you just have the opportunity to prove it. And he proved it when he fought Beodor Yan, went out there and fought an incredible fight. Now he's legitimately probably the number one contended division. And then there's Molly McCann hype.

Molly McCann is a solid fighter. but she was knocking out Hannah Goldie and I can't remember the other girl's name she knocked out with the spinning back elbow. Great wins, impressive, all the hype in the world getting all these sponsorship deals, all this kind of stuff. But Molly McCann was not like this top, you know, level fighter before that. She just had two highlight real knockouts and kind of got a lot of buzz being at home, fighting in England, things like that. Aaron Blanchfield just went out there and said, oh, hype, really? Well, let's see what happens when she goes up against a buzzsaw. and Blanchfield just mauled her.

Dude, what another prospect I can't wait to watch. And Aaron Blanchfield looked amazing. Composed, calculated, and just a fucking ripsaw right through Molly McCann. That was just beautiful technique. She did the whole way through. And it looked like didn't even break a sweat doing it. So, man, I can't wait to see her fight the top five. Yeah, she's a monster, man.

I've been really, really high on Aaron Blanchville. for a while and you know you know better than me of course the fighter i mean i've done it you know just rolling and training but getting caught in a quorum like that sucks real bad and when they get you when they get your leg over your head dude you're just talking about like just might you might just rip your shoulder out like i was i thought she was going to take molly mccanz's arm home with her yeah it was nasty dude so it's just not fortunate she's got to you know somehow she's got a fair way to beat Shevchenko, which is another level. So it's

going to be really interesting. Yeah, that's kind of like, we're talking about with like the whole Chandler, like the lightweight situation. Like, you can be really good, but then you're like, you're really good. Here's Islam Makachev. Yeah, go out and be really good against this guy. You can be really, really good, but here's Valentina freaking Shepchinko.

You know what I mean? Like, that's a man, that's a daunting task. And, you know, both of them eventually may lose. I mean, they may retire, who knows, but like they may lose eventually one day, but like think about that how talented and good those fighters are but then you're like oh here's Islam here's valentina good luck right right you know yeah yeah and that's the problem with chef chico i mean i just you just see so few weaknesses man you just see at least with islam

might be like okay if you can stop his takedown like you got a good chance you know but it's like with chef chico i'm just like well if you stop her take down now you got to deal with her fucking moitai you know it's yeah it's uh it's uh it's uh it It's a, it's not easy, man. Like I said, but again, Aaron's 23. She's got plenty of time. You know what I mean? She doesn't need to rush in.

And I know she's not. I've talked to, I've had interviews with her before. She's not rushing to get into the fight with Valenzhen and Schochenko. She knows she's a year or two away from that. And good. You know, don't rush into it. Because, you know, frankly, you're not ready for it yet.

Now, you may be in a year from now, year and a half from now, you get a little more experience under your belt. You get some good quality wins. Build that resume. Sure. But right now, yeah, it's not. It's not really that great of a fair fight because Valentin is just on another level of everybody in the world. Take your time.

There's no right. I think that's a big problem. Some of these fighters get rushed into these situations that are just not ready for it. I like that she and I think even Casey O'Neill, another really, really good prospect have said, like, we're not there yet. Like, give us a couple years and we'll get there, but we're not there yet. And I appreciate that kind of humility that they're not just like, give me Valentina and Chichinko right now. Because they probably know the result. and they're humble enough to admit they're not quite there yet.

Is there anybody out there saying give me Valentina Shetito right now? I mean, that's true. I don't know how many people are going to like, give me that fight. Let me have it. Yeah, you, yeah. I mean, I'll want the title fight because it's the title fight, but then like, well, it is Valentina. Yeah, it's great though in the title fight. But, yeah, I mean, I just don't see anyone messing with her, really.

I don't either. And I said the same. You know this sport, too, though. Like, you never fucking know. man. You don't. Right? Like this sport is crazy. I mean, Valentina, I'll see her news wake up all the wrong side of bed once. You know, like, well, I mean, her last fight, she had a, she had a foot injury, didn't look herself and Tyler Santos almost beat her. Like, she did not look herself and Tyler Santos had a great

fight. Now, Valentina won, and it drives me insane that she, like, had a legitimate foot injury and, like, couldn't do what she normally does in a fight because I think that's a much different fight if she's 100% healthy. But you take those risks. Like I said, you can't say you didn't take you can't you can't make excuses afterwards you took the fight if she would have lost that's on her but she didn't and like I have a hard time believe but she's going to take that same risk you can uh you know after doing it that one time but yeah like and like I I love Alexander Volcanowski I think Alexander Volcanowski is an incredible fighter man he's a monster one of the best pound for pound guys of the world but I still don't like his chances against

Islam Makachev upperweight class like you know like Max Halloway is a really, really good fighter, and he went up and got picked, I don't say picked apart. That's sounding a bit insulting, but he got largely dominated by Desta Porre when they had that fight for the interim title a couple years ago. I think Volcanowski's a monster, but come on. Mokachem is a freak in nature, dude. That guy, that guy is going to be, that guy's going to be really, really hard to beat. Yeah, I think it's going to be an interesting fight.

I think Volcanowski's size and strength-wise were made. even be able to hang with them personally. I'm a little bit bigger on Volcanowski than I think most people are on this fight. I still think Makachem is going to end up getting it done, but I don't think it's going to be nearly as easy as people think it's going to be. I don't think it's going to be quick.

I think it's going to be quick. I think it's going to probably end up either submitting them or pounding him out late later in the fight. I don't think it's going to be so easy for them personally. Well, come February, when we break down that, car if you want to go double or nothing on that one i will go double or nothing on that one because i'm fully confident in mackachachem mackichick winning that fight no i think i think i think i think he'll get him later in the fight than people think and i think he'll uh he'll be tested like he'll get some

i think alexander gets some good shots in and give him some hard times um and i give alks a bigger better shot than i think most people would the only bet that i would do on that if since we're going to be betting all the time now, I think. The only bet I'll do on that is that the last three rounds. I'll go, I'll do a bet like that. I'll say it goes over two and a half rounds or three rounds. Now, that one I wouldn't, because I agree, I think Volcanowski will stick in there.

I think he's going to just go away. I don't think he's going to just fade away. I think he's going to stick around. I just think ultimately size and power and wrestling are going to be too much in Machachev wins. I can see it being a five-round decision. I'm not even saying he goes out there and taps him out or just, you know, beats him up and finishes in two rounds.

I don't think that's going to happen. But I just still think the size power and wrestling will still be too much for Volcanowski over five rounds. He may make it all five rounds, but yeah. And like I said, there's a win in that, just going five rounds with the best lightweight in the world. But, you know, I just, I just think my. I think it's going to be, I think we'll do a full breakdown when we get there.

Yeah. We don't have to go over too much now. Yeah, it's interesting, though. This last week, it was just an incredible card. I think I were getting that, too, is look, Alexander, you got to get props to him. He's fucking going for it, man. I love these guys. When Izzy went up 205, Connor was obviously the first, even though he hadn't depended his lesser, lower weight title yet.

But, you know, when these guys go for the big things, that's the way I've always lived my life and fought. You know, it's like, let's go big, man, or go home, right? sometimes you pay the price for it, but then you walk away with no regrets and you feel good about it and you can come back. And, you know, like, for instance, in this fight, like Alexander has nothing to lose, right? He goes up and loses to Islam.

It's like, well, y'all thought I was going to do that anyway, right? So what's the problem? Yeah, no, absolutely. I give him a lot of credit. And like I said, good for him going up and taking a chance. And, you know, I don't count him out. And we'll talk more about it when he gets closer. But it's an interesting fight.

It's a big fight. And, you know, I'm 100% excited to watch it. I'll tell you that much for sure. That's a big one coming up in February. We just had a big one. We still have one more paper review this year, of course. Yuri Pahashka and Glover to share in the big rematch coming up in December. We got Derek Lewis and Sergey Speedback coming up this weekend, a good Bellator card coming up this weekend.

Patricie Pitbull and Usman Nurmaghmettoff, the guy with the greatest name and all the mixed martial martial martial armadol. You got Corey Anderson and Vadim Knav rematching. So lots of good fights coming up. Yeah, man. Yeah, lots of good fights and we got the holidays coming up. So we get to sit in the, when it's getting dark at 4 o'clock in the afternoon and sit and watch the fights. Yeah, nothing.

And we get to actually sleep in, right? When the sun comes up at 6 a.m., you know, it's hard to sleep in. Nothing like Ohio where it was like 72 days ago and now it's 38 and snowing. Nothing like Ohio weather. Yeah, right, right. But I bet you got the blackout blinds at, don't you, Damon? I do in my bedroom. I absolutely do have the blackout blinds my room.

Yeah. Because you're a nude sleep. I am, I am a night person. I am not a morning person. You will like, if you're like, hey, we got to record the podcast at 8 a.m. I'm like, dude, you're going on your own today because I am not getting up at 8 a.m. I am. Well, we used to do it early.

Remember back in the day, we used to do it early sometimes. And I remember, you'd be like, can we just do it like an hour later? that's what I would roll in with the hat and everything because I was like I am not getting up and getting ready for this thing I'm just going to 100% roll in like wake up get in the car and go down and do this freaking podcast because I am not a morning person I like to get up early man we get up we've been doing the ice and the sauna like six in the morning man it feels so much better I'm dead by this time of night usually because I go ahead we get after it man all day long no thank you I've I I didn't really do I'm a video blog, vlog you doing the ice sauna one day. Man, that's a tall order right there. Okay, that'll be next time we bet on a fight that's going to be, well, right now we're doubling nothing still because I throw you like a motherfucker. But if I ever get ahead, that's where our bet's going to go.

Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'll do the ice in the sauna. I just won't do it at 6 o'clock in the morning. How about that? I'll do the ice in the sauna, but I definitely. Definitely going to 6 a.m. in the morning. Okay. I'll tell you what, even when it's cold out like this, when it's 50, 40 degrees outside, it's even worse. It don't matter what time the day because when it's 40 degrees, I get out of the ice and you're still cold. You don't got, you know, the sun's not out there to warm you up for anything.

Yeah, yeah, it's not going to be fun. But yeah, the chance of you, like, you'd have to literally dump the ice on me in bed to get me up at 6 o'clock of the morning. Trust me. That just is not, I am not a morning person. that is when that is when i will actually legitimately become a fighter because someone tries to wake me up at six in the morning i'll throw punches i'm gonna try this someday okay not you i'm saying anyone else anyone else wants to try this i'll 100th you i'll wake up swinging i'm like why are you waking me up fair enough yeah uh all right we're gonna get out of here obviously we appreciate everyone tuning in the show uh we've been doing this

for a while now with me and matt doing the old co-host thing so it's been a blast and uh obviously ufc 281 was an incredible event. I want to appreciate everyone that tunes into the podcast each and every week. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. We will see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.