MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: UFC 286 Debate Including Edwards vs. Usman 3, Plus Matt Brown Explains Why He's Picking Rafael Fiziev

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer with Matt Brown and Damon Martin returns with discussion about Merab Dvalishvili’s huge win, our UFC 286 preview and our Ask Matt Brown segment is back this week. Following a lopsided win over Petr Yan at UFC Las Vegas, Merab Dvalishvili may have just established himself as the second best bantamweight in the promotion but he’s stated emphatically that he will not face friend and teammate Aljamain Sterling. Is Dvalishvili making a huge mistake by not taking this opportunity or is staying loyal to his friend even more important? We’ll also give our thoughts on UFC 286 including the growing narrative that Kamaru Usman may still be suffering from sort of fallout from his devastating knockout loss to Leon Edwards in their previous encounter. Is Usman actually at risk just because he got knocked out or is this just a way for people to talk themselves into believing Edwards has a better chance to win? We also discuss Justin Gaethje vs. Rafael Fiziev and Brown will explain why he believes Fiziev will be too much for Gaethje to handle at UFC 286. All this plus the return of our Ask Matt Brown segment on the latest edition of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won! Feel the fun!

The morning will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 1-8665-3-3-2-60 or visitcomex Ontario.ca. With Amex Platinum. You have access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. So your experience before takeoff is a taste of what's to come. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply.

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is Matt Brown. And after one week away, Matt, it felt so wrong to miss a week of the podcast. But we are back now ahead of UFC 286. Tell all the people why you weren't here a week ago. We couldn't do a show, Matt Brown.

You know how it is, man. We live in Ohio. The weather's changing. Sinuses flare up. One thing leads to another. Next thing you know, you're puking and you're blowing snot everywhere. And, you know, it's one of the, that's one of the questions if I say many is I like Ohio. But that is one of the cons of Ohio.

It is, dude. I had my sinuses blow up a few days ago because it was like 60 here. And then the next day it was like 30. and my sinus is just like, yeah, we're not going to stick around with you today. We're just going to blow up today. And, like, my face was just, like, hurting. So, yeah, I trust me. I fully understand that pain.

Yeah, it was 70. It was about 60. It was 70, bro. Yeah. It was beautiful. It was probably like the most beautiful day of the year. Now it's fucking snow. I was going to say, it's snowing out.

I was like, you hit me up earlier. And I was, like, looked outside. I was like, what the hell? It's snowing. It's freaking, like, it's been nice, all, nice weather and good weather all the last two weeks. And now it's freaking snowing. Yeah, exactly. I had to get a ride in the snow.

Like we were talking about earlier there, I got a little fender bender earlier today, so it's been a hell of a day. But I got a ride with a buddy of mine, and he's driving through the snow, playing on his phone. I'm just like, dude, I'm about to get another accident. That is the worst, dude. That's what you just got to put down the phone, man. Like, it is not worth it right.

There's no message so important you need to do this right now. Man, you know, like I said, I got a little fender bender. It wasn't anything major. No one's hurt. No problem. everything will be fine. But it really puts things into perspective, man. Like one little mistake can fuck up a lot.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I get, I tend, I don't know what it is. Whenever I go out, my girlfriend always laughs at me. Whenever I go out, I swear to God, the worst drivers all decide to hit the road on the same exact time. So anytime I'm anywhere, like, I'll be driving on the highway and someone will just slam on their brakes in front of me for no reason whatsoever or people will just get over without looking like the dumbest stuff happens whenever i'm out on the road like it's it's like it's like

the world testing my driving reaction time because it's always the dumbest most idiotic people on the road every single time i drive well instead of doing ask matt brown this week let's do ask damon martin what is your biggest driving pet peeve what is my biggest driving pet peeve god that's a big one that's like a long answer oh man i don't know this is probably a thousand of them there's probably I'll tell you which one I hate the fucking most. There's got a two of them honestly, okay? One, if you're in the left lane, go over the fucking speed limit, okay? No 65 in the left lane.

Go 70 minimum in the left lane. When I lived in Denver, that was the worst. Everybody out there must have been stone out of their fucking brains because everybody's driving 55 or 60 in the fucking left lane. So I was like, just get over. Number two, when you pull up to the stop, like, you know, I understand leaving a little bit distance between you and the car in front of you. But leaving a car links distance or two car lengths distance just rubs me the fucking wrong way, man.

That happens all the time, especially when I'm trying to turn left and there's a car in front of you. And you could get to the left turn lane where they have like a green arrow, but the car in front of you won't pull up. That drives me and say, yeah, I would say that's probably right there. But number one is I would say 100% is the people. who get over to pass somebody and then they slow down. That drives me absolutely. I don't mind that you get over in front of me to pass somebody. I get that.

But when you get over in front of me and then immediately just slow down, I'm like, why did you do this in the first place? Why did you get over to just immediately slow down? That's the one that drives me insane. I'll be driving on the highway. And inevitably, somebody's like, okay, I'm like maybe I'm going 70 and they're going like 65, whatever.

I'm going 75, they're going 70. They get over in front of me to pass the car. They pass the car and then they just immediately slow down. Slow down. They're going the same speed as they were before. It drives me absolutely fucking insane every single time, dude. Just take my advice. Don't drive in Denver unless you have to because them stoner motherfuckers.

I love for any listeners from Denver to confirm this with me, see if I'm the only one that had this experience. I don't know how many times I'd be driving. in the fucking left lane going and they would do that they would pass and get over in the left lane be passing going 60 miles an hour I'm like this is a fuck I think it said the speed limit is actually 70 out there it's like like get put the joint down and fuck and go it's the weirdest thing too because like I am a super aggressive driver I fully admit that and like that's how I survive when I drive in big cities like I don't because I mean I know Columbus is a big city but like

I'm so used to driving here. I don't really consider Columbus big city driving. But like when I go to Chicago, I go to Philadelphia, I go to L.A., like I can drive in big cities and navigate and none of it really bothers me. Like it doesn't, I don't, you know what I mean? Like I can handle a lot of people get stressed out and freaked out driving in like, you know, crazy downtown traffic. It never really bothers me.

But I'm super aggressive. That's why. I'm a super aggressive driver. So like when there's like a turn to me made, I'll get a way over. I'll find my way over into a lane to get over. Like, I'll do it. All that doesn't bother me. But my God, it's the highway drivers.

That's what drives me insane. Highway drivers are the absolute worst. Yep. So I lived in New York for two years, you know. So I learned how to drive very offensively. There's no defensive driving there. It's all offensive driving. And they're fighting for every fucking spot they can get.

If you want to survive in New York driving, you better be offensive driving. Otherwise, you will never get anywhere. You won't get anywhere. That's exactly right. Yeah. Well, we got a lot to do. talk about, obviously, with the fights this past week and a big welterweight title fight come up in a matter of days. But let me get the quick update on camp Matt Brown, getting ready

for May 13th. How was another, because we didn't do the show last week. So how's the last couple weeks been for you in training camp mode? Well, like I said, I got a little sick last week, but I think I actually needed it, man. I think I've been pushing myself hard. I'm feeling great. My body's feeling better than it ever has. Mentally, I'm feeling better than ever have. So I'm very excited for this fight. I think it's a great matchup for me. We all know court is not an easy guy to put away. He's going to be there all three rounds if he can. I don't plan on letting him be there all three rounds. I'm feeling fucking great, man. Everything is just coming together. I think you're going to see the best Matt Brown you've ever seen, to be honest. And I almost feel

bad for court because he's such a great guy. I love the guy, hung out with him many times. I almost feel bad for him, man. Yeah, I saw, I don't, I don't, I assume it wasn't you sparring him, although I don't know, but I saw Mark Coleman had a sparring session recently. He showed a little abrasion on his nose. He got in there. That was the little sparring. That was not me. That was not me. So he was fucking around

with this guy who is, I think, is only, it's like his first or second day in there, actually. And Coleman was just goofing off with him. And the dude, you know, he didn't know any better and he just hit him. Fortunately, Coleman, you know, he's a much more set.

He doesn't appear on social media, but mentally he's in a much better place than he was in the past. So the guy is still alive as up today. And it was a fun day, man. But yeah, Coleman's getting back in there. I think he's finding a new love for the striking arts, not just wrestling. Is that the most profound thing you've ever heard or what? Absolutely.

That shocks my mind right there. I'm going to have to come up to the gym and watch Mark Coleman hit pads. I think that would be an interesting time to witness. Yeah, he is loving it, man. And I tell you what, I held pads for him the other day. Just maybe like 30 seconds or something, nothing major. But I'll tell you what, this guy hasn't trained in 10 years, was alcoholic because it was on his deathbed, alcoholic,

what, four or five hip surgeries, hip replacements with septic, you know, this and that. It's just been through the ringer. but when you feel that motherfucker's strength after going through all that not like some guy that's out there training him he is a true fucking gorilla man no but this guy could have knocked out anybody in the world at any time in history

he is a specimen through and through you said the guy who was on like day two accidentally hit him dude i've known mark for i don't know how many years at this point i consider him a good friend and a guy that, like, he's the kind of guy, like, Mark sends me happy birthday messages. Like, that's my, like, Mark and I are friends, but, you know, good friends. I would be terrified if I accidentally hit Mark Coleman. And I've known the guy as a friend for over a decade, I'd be terrified.

So I can only imagine what that poor guy was looking like, realizing he hit Mark Coleman in the face. Yeah, I didn't see it. So I'm not sure exactly how we went down. Yeah, I, man, I'm telling you, bro, like, You don't realize how genetically gifted he really is, man. Like he is an absolute fucking freak, man. Just a gorilla silverback through and through, man. And it is really amazing to see at that age,

the amount of strength that he has is absolutely unreal. Yeah, that's awesome. I've been so happy to see everything going up there. And obviously sounds like the training camp is good. I'll be up to the gym at some point in the near future to catch up with Matt Brown in camp as we get closer and closer to May 13th. It's now just about. Actually, as of today, exactly two months away.

Oh, nice. That's what I like to hear, bro. Yeah. So right now, we're right on track for everything. So I thought we were nine weeks for some reason, but maybe it's exactly eight weeks now. Maybe I lost track a little bit. But I'm right on point, man.

I'm ready to start ramping this up and ready to smash this guy. My brother Dorian will be out here in a couple weeks, and we're going to finish this hard and strong, man. I love it. I love it. So we had some fights over the, week and, of course, I know you were watching. I don't want to, obviously with the big title fight coming up this weekend, I want to talk about UFC 286, but I want to mention, of course,

what happened this last week, because I know you were tweeting about it, and we were kind of talking about it online. Man, Marad de Wallisvili, what a freaking, 49 takedown attempts, a pace that I don't know that I've seen set in a fight in a while at that kind of weight class. I mean, I know Bantamates, you know, typically have a little bit better gas tank, but my God, the pace he said i mean it was 5045 going away like there was not a single round that peter peterion was in like it was honestly one of the most stunning performances i've ever seen and not because i didn't think marab could do it but because it was at one side of we texted before the fight and i said i said i don't know i said i you know if marab can use his wrestling maybe but i don't know

like it's just a really hard fight to pick and it wasn't hard marab shut him out Boy, you're right on point there. I would like to see Marab get more done. You know, I don't want to be critical. I thought he put on one of the most amazing performances ever. But if I have a criticism of that, I was like, dude, I would like to see you get more done. I mean, he shot 49 times. But how many did he finish, right?

I think like 14. I think he was like 14 to 49, if I'm not mistaken. And even that, man, is as it was still a. ridiculous number. Like, we used to do a drill, an old coach, where he would have us do like a hundred shots, you know, just one after the other, not even finishing them or even trying to finish them, just doing the shots. And it is an absolutely exhausting fucking drill, nonetheless doing punches and dealing with fucking Peter Yonron in front of your face and hitting you back and defending the shots and trying to get the take down. So,

That dude's cardio is just another fucking level, man. And, you know, that's going to be a hard style for anyone to deal with, I think, right? Because it's how do you do anything to him? You know, he doesn't care if he even gets the shot. He's just going to, he uses it like a jab, you know, just he's always putting something out there for you. And like I said, if I want to be critical, I would say, you know, I'd like to see him get more done with it because Pete it. But then again, I mean, it's Peter Young. Like, he is absolutely ridiculous takedown defense.

And even when Marab did finish him, he did a great job of getting back and fighting back out of him. But, God, you just can't say enough good things about Marab. That was just an amazing performance. I love that you said he used it like a jab because that's so true. And he made Peter Yan work. You know what I mean? Like, he may not have gotten all those takedowns, but the fact that Peter Yan had to sprawl out 49 times trying to get away from me.

him like dude that zaps you that absolutely zaps your energy and the fact that he could actually continue to go for those takedowns and then I agree like the output could have been a little bit better but even on the feet like he didn't look bad on the feet he didn't look overmatched on him he had some good punches and I think a lot of that was set up by the wrestling he took peter yon out of his game and yon could never that calf kick early took his leg away made him switch stances and then suddenly you could tell like he wasn't as comfortable when he had to switch stances you could tell when he was in south ball he wasn't like you know he was he It's one thing to do it quick in a fight to, like, keep your opponent guessing.

But when you're forced to switch stances because your legs messed up, like, you can tell he wasn't as comfortable standing in South Paul. So it was, I was blown away. Like, I thought that was a 50-50 fight. Like I was like, man, this could go either way. It did not go either way. It was just a complete one-sided fight. I was honestly shocked, not because Marab isn't that good. Morab's incredible.

But I thought, you know, Peter Yan is that good as well. And the fact that it was a shutout. I was like, whoa, this was a. this was unbelievable. Yeah, I thought the same thing. I was just blown away the whole time. Well, after the first round, I wasn't blown away so more. But I was like, damn, can you keep this up another four rounds?

And by God, he did with no problem. And it's just, again, I just don't know how you deal with that style. I mean, he just doesn't give you a single opportunity to breathe or get off any offense. Like, you throw a punch, he's shooting in. You stand there. He punches you. You know, like it just doesn't matter what you do. and like something is coming all the time.

You're always dealing with his offense. And, you know, that's the old term, right? It's the best defense is a good offense. And I think Marab lives that up to the T. Absolutely. So now, here's a question I have for you, Matt, because as a fighter, you have a different perspective than I do as a journalist. Because I've covered these situations a million times.

And I've seen them go good and I've seen them go bad. But I'm sure you saw or heard afterwards, of course, I mean, a win like that, you know, should easily make Marab, you know, a number one contender or at worst one fight away from probably a number one contender, though, considering he did to Peter Yon, what Sean O'Malley could not do. Sean O'Malley had a split decision, and that was a razor close fight that I know we talked about before you actually thought Peter Yon won. I lean to O'Malley, but again, it was close. I would have no problem with Yon won that fight. Marab shut him down, five rounds straight. It was an unbelievable performance.

In any other world, Marab would be the number one contender in the division. But we all know he said a million times he's not going to fight Al Jermaine Sterling. That's his teammate. That's his brother. That's his friend. They will not fight now again. We know Al Jermaine has a title fight coming up against St. Henry Sehudo in May. Maybe Sehudo wins and that just solves the problem.

And Marab is right there to get a title shot. Dana White came out and said he's making a big mistake. We've seen this a thousand times. You don't do this. You take your opportunities. So Matt, as a fight, I know you've had to fight friends and former training partners, guys you've trained with. Now, I don't know, you know, best friends. Obviously, it's a little different situation, but is Marab, do you find that Marab is making a mistake

by not, you know, gunning for the title and saying I'd fight my friend? Or do you stand by his decision to say, this is just one fight I won't take? And if it takes me a little longer to get to the title, so be it. Yeah, I think Dana has a point, and we've seen it play out that way before. And I think, you know, when you're firing on all eight cylinders and the iron is hot, you got to go for it. And I totally agree with Dana. On that same, on the other side of the token, I've never fought a friend before.

I fought guys that I know well, guys that I'm close with, and I fought training partners. I would never fight a friend, and I actually stand by Marab's decision on that. And I think it's very honorable of him to do that. And I think he even trains training camps, right? You know, maybe not. I'm sure he still trains without Joe and them a lot. It looked like he's been out in Vegas, a syndicate a lot. They both go out to Vegas.

They both been out there. Al Jermaine owns a house in Vegas. So I think Marab even lives with them when they're out there together. So, yeah, they both train in Vegas now, too. From my understanding, living in New York, the taxes in New York are rather expensive. And there's no state taxes in Vegas. So you save a lot of money living in Vegas. So, yeah, I think they both live out there and train.

So they do train. It's them patchy mixed from Bellator trains. them, Javid and Fired Basharat, the two guys who fight the UFCs. They got a good team out there at Bantaways out there. But yeah,

no, they still train full time together. Like I said, I think they're even roommates when they live in Vegas. Yeah, I mean, you can't.

I stand by Maraub, and I respect him for that decision, and I think it's very cool that he's doing that. Again, I think Dana has a point, though, and I think from Dana's point of view, that makes perfect sense.

And we have seen a play out that way before, and we've seen, And again, this moment doesn't last forever. You know, you can't deal with this forever. And yeah, so it's a tough spot that he's in. But that's his decision. And again, I respect him for that. And I think we all know that he's a worthy,

he's good enough to be a champion, right? We know that. So we're just going to have to see how everything plays out now. It, like, one part of me, like, here's the thing. And this is from the journalist side. Like, I respect the hell out of him for standing and sticking to his guns that he doesn't want to fight Al Jermain because, you know, he said a million times in interviews with me and other people, I wouldn't be here without Al Jermain. Like, I would not be where I'm out without having Al Jermaine as my teammate, my friend. And I know, like, in the early days, Marab lived with him when he couldn't, like, have his own place.

Like, Al Jermain had him staying at his house and things like that. And I applaud, here's why I applaud him for this, because we have seen this play out a thousand times before. And you and I both know, Matt, it rarely ends good. You know, Kamar Usman fought Gilbert Burns. They were teammates. What happened? They split. Kamar who left the team, ended up moving out to Colorado.

And I think they've kind of mended fences now. But like, you know, it's just, it's impossible when you're fighting at that level and you're battling for a UFC title that you're just going to stay friends. Now, I'm not saying it's impossible. but, you know, Rashad and John Jones, they were good buddies. And then boom, it just got volatile, you know, when they had to split camps, one guy left and the other guy stayed and blah, blah, blah. And we just, you know, Tyrant Woodley and Robbie Lawler trained in American top team. They weren't even close friends, but it split the gym.

You know, one of them had to leave. And like, it just, it never seems to end well. And they genuinely seem to have like a real bond as friends and teammates. And they've been together for, I don't know, eight or nine years or whatever it is. I kind of commend Marab for sticking to his guns. And, you know, it's not like Al Jemaine's trying to take away an opportunity from his. He's actually said openly, I will eventually go to featherweight, you know, and you can, that point, go and do your thing.

And I just, I don't know, like, I guess at some point has to come to a head. Like, if Al Jemaine keeps winning and he doesn't go to featherweight, then, you know, you got to make a choice, dude. Like, do you want to fight for the title or you're just, you know, you're never going to fight for a title. But at the same time, I respect their decision because, as I said, you know, these situations when it does happen, when two friends or two teammates end up fighting each other, it never ends well. It never, you just can't, you can't maintain that relationship when you're trying to be the best of the world and your other, your friend, this is not, I'm not trying to mock other sportsmen, but this isn't putting a ball on a hoop. You know, this is literally going out there and punching and beating the shit out of each other and trying to take, you're trying to take your friend's dream away from him.

he's doing the same thing. There's no way that doesn't change your relationship. Absolutely. And it's different, too, I think, from times past where, for instance, John Jones and Rashad Evans, right? Like, maybe they were buddies and maybe one of them, probably Rashad, seeing them as friends, but probably to the other one, I'm guessing John Jones, and I don't know the actual dynamics here, but like he'd probably seen Rashad as a training partner.

I mean. I think in a lot of times in the dynamic, that's kind of how things are. Like one guy is seeing it as we're training partners and that's what we do. And the other ones like, oh, we're friends, you know? And that makes things complicated. But guys like Al Jermaine and Marab are both openly saying we are friends and we do not want to fight each other. So I think that changes things a little bit. You know, so then that's why I say, like I would never fight my friends. I have a lot of guys that I've fought that are training partners and guys that I'm close with to some extent.

But they weren't my friends, right? Like, I don't still keep in touch. They're not sending me happy birthday messages. And maybe it's because I beat them up or because they beat me up. I don't know. But, you know, we weren't, you know, you're talking about guys that have been friends for a long time living together and helping each other out in so many aspects.

I'm guessing they probably, you know, they probably hang out together too, right? Like they're probably friends, friends, which is just completely different than training partners is all I'm getting at. Yeah, and I like, I disagree with Dana White on a lot of stuff, but I don't disagree with what he's saying in principle. Like, you're right. You have a small window to find success and to be a champion and you got to take advantage of that because the world doesn't wait on you.

Like, that's absolutely true. But at the same time, you know, I appreciate the loyalty they're showing to each other because that is a rare thing. You know what I mean? There's a rare thing in this sport because at the end of the day, you know, it takes a team to build a champion, but, you know, and you do step in there individually. We all understand that.

But at the same time, I respect that they're, because it's not one, you're right, it's not one guy saying this. It's not like, I don't want to fight, but they're both saying this. You know, they're both saying, I don't want to fight my friend. Our friendship means more to me than, you know,

than the title, I'll move up and what, you know, Al Jermaine's saying, I'll move up and wait. Like here, I'll give, here, Marab, you have the division. I'll eventually go up. I just, I, listen, does it suck that maybe the two best guys in the division are Al Jemaine and Barab? Like, there's an argument that can be made that those are the two get best guys of the division.

And we're never going to get to see them fight. Yes, I understand that. But like I said, man, I respect the hell out of them because they're both, they're not hiding it. They're not, you know, not just, they're not turning down the fight privately and just not telling us why. They're saying very openly, not fighting them, never going to happen. We're best friends. And you're right. It is a day.

Like, they go on vacation together. Like when, when Al J. J. Dillishal, they all went to the Bahamas together. It's like a team.

When, when Marab won a fight, he took them to Georgia, his home country. He took Al Jermaine, I think, Al-I Quinta, they all went to Georgia for like a week.

Like, that's the kind of stuff you do with your friends, not just your teammates. And like, like Dorian, like a good example is Dorian. You said your brother. Dorian's beyond,

a teammate to you, but beyond a training partner, I'd imagine there's no amount of money the UFC would offer you to where you'd want to fight Dorian. Like, that's a different relationship. You have a Dorian than just, like, didn't you train with Diego Lima at some point? Like, didn't you train with him at some point? Yeah. Like, that's a different relationship, right?

Like, that's a completely different relationship. Exactly. And those relationships where you won't fight someone, even if it's for a title, or built over a long amounts of time, right? Like, if I was just print with someone for a year, I'd be like, all right, I'll fight you, whatever. you know. But again, like you said, these guys are going on vacation together. You know, like Al Jermaine went to Marab's home country. You know, these guys have a bond built together. And

I think the biggest part, too, is Marab, again, I show so much respect for, you know, he shows so much honor and integrity by saying this. You know, he's saying Al Jermaine is part of the reason that I'm here. So I'm not going to try to take away from him what he has. helped me build. And that deserves some respect. And he's the one where it really comes down to, right, because it's easy for Al Jermaine to say, look, I'm not going to fight my friend, right? He's the champion. For Marab, this is a, you know, once in a lifetime opportunity. So for him to say that, that tells me their friends, and that's all there is to it. And I respect that immensely. And I think Marab has probably earned a lot of people's respect over the weekend,

not on just those parts of it, but his actual fighting game. And so, you know, he's the whole package, man, like a great guy and amazing fighter. So, you know, you got to give a lot of respect to that guy. You just have to. Absolutely. I'm curious before we change subjects here. Obviously, Sean O'Malley, incredible fighter. We know Henry Suudo's coming back, but I'm kind of taking Suhudo out of the conversation because he's been gone for three years.

I'm not saying like he's not great. He is incredible and maybe one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time when you mix in all the things. You know, gold medal and wrestling and all those things, two division champion. But I'm taking him out of the conversation because he's been out for three years. Current bantam weights in the UFC, they're active. Al Jameen and Marab, am I wrong in thinking they're probably number one and two, legitimately right now? Like, no offense to Sean Amalley. Corey Sanhagan's incredible.

Cheetah Vair is incredible. But I think right now, Al Jarmad might be the two best bands of wits in the world. I don't think you can beat Peter Yon like that and not say that you want to stop to the world. Like, I don't think anybody beats Peter Yon in a shutout. Yeah. Nobody has.

I don't see anybody doing that to Peter Yon. I didn't think Mara would do it to Peter Yon. I think there's a, you know, I don't know, I don't want to go there. I almost say there's an argument to be made that he didn't pitch a shutout on Peter Yon, but there's really not. I mean, he won every round. But I did see some people live tweeting that they gave Yon, I think the first round,

live tweeting, but by the end it was all 5045, you know, which is kind of interesting how that plays out. But regardless, it doesn't really matter. No one does at Peter Yon. I thought I've always, for a long time, I believe that Peter Yon is the best Bantamweight out there. I thought he was going to go down as the best in history. And boy, like what a fall from grace, you know,

one illegal knee and his whole everything has changed from him. And not that he's putting on these lesser performances, you know. I mean, he's going out there doing great. It doesn't seem that he's lost a step or anything. but, you know, that's the way this sport fucking works, man. It's just the way the sport works. What do we say, Matt, she's a cruel bitch. Like, this sport is not, like, there is no, like, I would, I'm, dude, I'll be the first

to admit I got it wrong. I thought Peter Jan was going to truck Al Jermaine in the rematch because he absolutely, he was winning, and Al Jemaine would be the first one to tell you. He was losing that first fight, and then he got caught with the illegal knee. And I still 100% to this day, stand by Al Jermaine. He got blasted in the face of the illegal knee. He couldn't continue. a fault the guy. I don't think he bit. I don't think he chickened out or that's stupid. He just,

he got hit with an illegal knee, dude. Like, it is what it is. Um, but the rematch, I was wrong. I thought Peter Yon was going to be a dominant. And then Al Jamein went out there and had two, at least one 10-8 round, which I didn't score a 10-A round. It should have been, but they didn't. Maybe even another one. Like, he went out there and had a great performance and won the fight. Good for, I was shocked. I was blown away. He lost a real close split decision to O'Malley, a fight that, you know, you scored for Yon. I could easily see, going but now like he's one and three one and four in his last like that's how quickly this sport can change yeah and it's crazy because on paper he's what one and three in his last four right yeah

but when we watch all those fights we're like dude is like he's still one of those top guys you know but you just got to wonder what this is done to him mentally now right now he every time that he loses even even if it's a split decision lost like shun him out that hill to get back is a bigger mountain to climb. So, you know, it's got to be a mental challenge for him. But, you know, again, I've said for a long time. I mean, I think he's one of the best in the world. I thought he'd be the best Bantamweight in history.

I love everything he does. I study him. He's one of those guys. Very few fighters that I watch and study what they do, you know, beyond just watching them for entertainment because I love the sport. But I actually watch and try to see what they're doing and try to actually mimic some of the things they're doing. And he's one of those guys.

and say it's been amazing, you know, I don't even know if that's the right word, you know, for him just falling. And, you know, I could see him definitely coming back. But, you know, now he has an even bigger road ahead of him. Much longer road, absolutely, especially with Morab and Al Jameen up there at the top of the division. Like, and Sean O'Malley for that matter. Like, even though it was a close fight, like he doesn't have lost him. Those are the three top guys.

I think he can beat all those guys. but he has to be firing on all these cylinders. He has to be on his A game right on top of everything and fight the perfect fight that night. Yeah, I agree, I agree. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats.

But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice, yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes, because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence. while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross-training Treadplus at OnePeloton.ca.

Matt, this weekend, the UFC returns to pay-per-view at the UFC 286 card in London. We got Rafael Fiziv against Justin Gaci. Holy shit, what a fight. That's going to be. And, of course, the Welterweight title fight between Leon Edwards and Kumar Usman. We know this one last time around. Camaro was winning until he wasn't. That's when Leon Edwards caught him with that fifth round head kick,

knocked him out and ended his night. I've seen a lot of chatter going into this third fight between them, which does, I call it a rematch. That first fight was so long ago. I know it counts, but it doesn't. Like it was their first and second fights of the UFC. They're far different fighters now than they were then. But anyways, it's a trilogy.

I've seen a lot of people kind of coming around to the Leon Edwards way of thinking, like, can Camaro, house Camaro are going to bounce back from that knockout? Now, Matt, you and I know, and obviously, you've been there, you know far better than I do, but, like, we know certain losses do stick with guys.

Like, when you lose a certain way, it can stick with you. We've seen, I mean, I know this is probably a bad example because it was only one fight, but like, Rhonda Rousey never, was never the same after the Holly home fight. Now, granted, she only had one more fight after that, but her reaction and just, I think

it just absolutely stole her confidence away. Like everything to happen with that Holly Holme knockout just completely altered her career forever. I know that's an extreme case and probably a bad example because she only fought one more time and they never fought again. But we know that we know that's a real thing. We know certain people have gotten knocked out or lost and they never fully recover. They may come back and win a couple of fights, but they never fully recover from a loss.

I've seen a lot. I don't know. I mean, I guess we're going to find out on Saturday, but I don't know. Are people trying to talk themselves into like Usman just not being able to come back from them? They try to talk themselves into Leon Evers winning because the odds are still in Usman's favor. He was winning. Like he's won every round with the exception of two rounds. The first round, which Leon did win in their second fight.

And then the fifth round when he got knocked out, he was winning that round. He just got knocked out. Are people trying to talk themselves into Leon Evers winning this fight? Or is there like a legitimate storyline here that maybe, maybe Kamar will be. can't come back from a knockout? I do not for one second think Camaro cannot come back from this knockout. I do not.

Yeah, I think you're saying pretty well. Like people are trying to talk themselves into believing that Camaro is going to go down. Maybe they want to believe that Leon's going to win. I don't know exactly what these people would want to believe. I believe very confidently Camaro is going to come back as good,

if not better than he was before. I think he will come back strong and I think he's going to put on a great performance. Now, the question in my mind isn't whether Kamaro has the strength to come back and the mental fortitude and the ability to come back and put on a great performance is, is Leon Edwards good enough?

And I think he actually is, right? That first round showed, like Leon can clinch with him. Leon took him down. Leon can obviously strike with him. He knocked him out. This fight is closer than I think anybody's making it out to be. I favor Camaro.

I think it's foolish not to favor Camaro because he has the wrestling. But Leon showed that he can wrestle with Camaro. Can he do it for five rounds? I don't know. That to me is the only question. Can he do that first round five times? Now, that's barring, you know, a crazy knockout like he got in the fifth round. I'm not even thinking about that kind of stuff because you can't predict that, right?

Anybody says they predicted Leon Edwards knocking out Kamar Osmond. They got fucking lucky, okay? There's nothing more to it. Leon maybe didn't, you know, I know everybody hates using the word luck. They're like, well, he threw it and he meant to hit him with it. So it wasn't luck. well, you know, there's a lot of fortunate set of events. Okay, however you want to word it, right?

Like, you know, you don't have to call it the word luck, right? But he's very fortunate that that happened, right? The fact is, if Leon can maintain that first round, he has a very good chance. I think there's a possibility he can do that. I think that possibility is less than a 50%. So I still lean towards Kamara. But this is an extremely interesting fight, in my opinion. I don't see Leon get another big knockout like that.

I do think Kamaru, you know, he's going to make the adjustments. He's going to protect himself better. You know, the thing is he's probably going, I have to assume, like, if I'm his coach, like, we're going to wrestle more of this fight. We're going to do, you know, that second, third, fourth, and half of the fifth round, all five rounds, you know, try to get a finish. But, you know, that's going to be the game plan. Leon is probably going to be ready for that. So that's why we go.

That's why they have the fight. That's why we watch it. I think, you know, it's funny. I don't question the whole, you know, is, you know, is, is, is, is Camaro going to be able to, is Kamaro going to be able to come back from the knockout? I don't, I don't, I don't believe that. I'm with you 100% I'll believe that all. I think what I don't think, listen,

I don't like the narrative when some people say, like you need a loss to get better. I understand that you can say that. But here's what I would say. I think Camaro was getting a little distracted at that point. You know, he was going into a six title defense, which is getting close to the GSP record,

you know, nine. I know it's not right there, but it's getting closer. He was tying or had broken GSP's record for the most wins in a row in the division. Like he was getting some all-time records. He was talking about fighting Canello and a boxing match. It was kind of like, almost like just kind of, again, like kind of getting that like

a little bit too much of a head of like things outside of this. And, and Leon on paper didn't seem like that big of a threat to him. Like, we got to be honest. The odds were completely overwhelming in Usman's favor. He was supposed to win that fight. And he was. He did have kind of a bad first round, or I should say Leon had a good first round and then Camaro came back and was dominating. I think that lost that knockout. of anything. It's going to make him hungrier and want to go out there and have a better fight this time. And also, and I know I'm not making excuses. And I think this is Leon as well, because Leon had a weird, like, fourth round where he looked exhausted. They were fighting at elevation. And that Salt Lake City

car is zapped everybody. Like, it was a weird performance because Kamar is usually like a, he's a, almost like a mirab. He goes out there and just puts the pace on you round after round after round. And he couldn't really do that. And Leon was the same way. Leon has good cardio. And he looked tired in the fourth round and then obviously pulled out the knock on the fifth. But I'm also with you on the Leon Edwards thing because I think Leon Edwards is one of those guys who has been really good this entire time. Everyone kept doubting him and he needed a fight like that to kind of prove people wrong. And I think that's only going to boost his confidence because he knows he can survive with Camaro on the ground. He knows he can take Camaro's back.

He knows he can knock out Camaro. I think these are all things that are going to help Leon Edwards. But again, I'm with you, Matt. If you're asking me to pick the fight, I got a link towards Camaro Usman because I do believe Camaro. is that good. I think he is one of the best welterweights of all time. Did he get caught? Absolutely. Guess what? GSP got caught by Matt Sarah. It happens. Now,

historically, I would say Leon Edwards is probably a better overall fighter than Matt Sarah was. Matt Sarah at the time was more of a quote-unquote flash in the pan. He wasn't like, you know, this world beater who, you know, was on a 95 win streak like Leon Edwards. But I think Leon Edwards can win

this fight. I think people are crazy to doubt him. His striking is top notch, his defense's solid. He's And I think he's got to know that Oussman's going to come out there and wrestle him hard this fight. So he's probably been working a ton on that. But again, I'm just, I'm betting on who has more ways to win the fight. And I think that's Kamar Usman because Kumar Oosman can knock you out. He cannot wrestle you.

He can just push you against the cage of control you for five rounds. It may not be the most exciting fight, but he can do that to you. Again, I'm like 5545. You know, Ousman wins. But I'm not, I'm not saying it's an overwhelming favorite. it, I wouldn't be shocked if Edwards pulls it off, but the narrative that the knockout's going to change everything. I think that, again, I think that's just people talking themselves with no reason to believe that Oosman's going to lose. If you're going to say Oosman's going to lose, it's

just because Edwards has surpassed him and he's the better fighter now, not because he got knocked out once and he's suddenly, you know, going to be out of his game because he got knocked out. I don't buy that. Yeah, I agree 100%. That's exactly what I think his fight comes out to. I think they're both going to come out much better fighters than they were last time. I think they're both going to rise to the occasion. They're both going to put on a hell of a fight. It's just a matter of, you know, who shows up that night and who's on point that night. And, of course, it is five rounds, right?

So, you know, who makes one mistake, who, you know, maybe who has a better cardio, who did put in those extra, you know, five miles at the end of the day or whatever. You know, it's going to come down to such tiny little details. These are two of the top guys. And I think they're going to be at the, the, the, top of their peak, performances, you know,

the positions in their life, these guys are going to, this is going to be an extremely high level match. And I think, again, when we look at that first round, it comes down to, Ann E. Leon sustain that.

Right? He beat Kamaru the first round. He took Kamara down. Kumar was trying to take him down. Did Kamara make a mistake? or did Leon, you know, put him there? And, you know, can he do that again? And can he do it for five rounds?

He's got to be able to beat Camaro at that game. Camaro is going to try to take him down. I think that's something we're pretty much guaranteed to see here. He's going to try to take him down. Can Leon reverse that role? He doesn't necessarily have to take him down, but he's got to, you know, at least be able to break off, and I get pushed against the fence for five rounds.

He's got to be able to do some of these things. And I think he's going to be way better at it than he was first time. Camaro is going to be way better at than he was first time. And it's going to make for an exciting match. And I'm a 55-45 right with you. All right, let me ask you this, Matt. You are a coach on top of being a fighter. We know that.

You said many times when your career is over, you believe you'll end up being a better coach and you are a fighter. So I'm curious, you don't know him intimately. Like you've not been in his training camp and you've not worked with him. but I'm just on the outside looking in. If you were a coach, what would your strategy be for Leon Edwards to beat Kamar Usman? Because I think Kamar Usman, as we both kind of agree, he has more ways to win the fight because he can wrestle. He has the knockout of things I already said.

Leon has traditionally been a striker, but we saw in the first fight, he does have grappling. He does have wrestling. He does have submissions, all those kind of things. If you were Leon Edwards coach, what is your strategy for this fight to beat Kamar Usman? What is the way you beat Kamar Usman in this fight? Well, it's certainly going to come down to, I mean, when you're coached with someone, you certainly have to get them to buy into the strategy first. So you have to sit and talk with Leon as, you know, what do you feel like doing first, right?

And then how can we build a game's plan and strategy around what you feel you need to do in this fight? Because if the fighter isn't buying into it, then, you know, you're going to have a long, tough camp. And, you know, it's going to be an uphill battle from there. but if I could play the video game and these two were, and I'm Leon Edwards and you're Kamaru Osmah. I always have the hardest time to say his name.

And Kamaru Osma, I'm going to try to take you down. Like I said, like he did in that first round. I'm going to let you know that I can beat you at your game. And that takedown doesn't have to be, you know, your conventional wrestling takedown,

try to push him against the fence and grab the legs and pick them up, or anything like that. It could be any kind of takedown that you can fester up, you know, like the clinch takedown that he got him with in the first match, if, you know, punch him up a little bit first, or maybe a reshot off a sprawl or, you know what I mean, anything.

And I think that that would be the biggest deterrent to Qamuru, to Usman. I think that would be the biggest deterrent for him mentally getting taken down again by Leon Edwards. He got knocked out last time. You know, he knows this is the must-win fight for his legacy. This is the guy that he has to be to get back to the top. He gets put on his ass.

It's going to be absolutely devastating to him. He can come back mentally from being knocked out. He can have a strong training camp. But if he goes in there and gets taken down and put on his back, he's going to start questioning himself. Now, whether you try to do that for a few rounds or not, you know, there's a lot of things you have to look at when you're looking at a strategy, you know,

in terms of skills and techniques and matchups, opportunities, threads, all these different things. But I think, yeah, if you can put him on his back, I think you got a huge upper hand right there. Can I also throw out one just a curiosity if you think this would be good? Like, to me, because I agree, the takedowns would be great. We've also seen the real addition of calf kicks as a real weapon in fights, particularly because they're lower, typically lower risk to get taken down off a calf kick than you would

if you're kicking up higher on the knee or the thigh. We always thought of more traditional leg kicks back in the day, like the Pedro Hizzo, you know, leg kicks, Marco Huaz leg kicks, those kind of things. Or not the old school. Yeah, am I wrong in thinking that, you know, maybe those kind of like lower percentage, like attacking that front lead leg and then working the takedowns like that chews up to lead leg because again

we see how much those calf kicks can affect you especially for a wrestler because you got to plant on that lead leg if you can't plant hard on that lead leg over five rounds it diminishes your ability to drive through a takedown am I wrong and thinking like maybe you know he's everyone's going to be talking about the head kick

head kick head kick maybe trick him a little bit throw those legs those low kicks throw a couple I'm not saying spend your whole time doing that because obviously you do risk to take down but I don't know, am I wrong. I thinking that could be a little bit of a weapon for Leon in this fight because it keeps him guessing, I guess. Again, that's why when you ask me the question about how do you coach him,

you know, what kind of game playing do you go in with? That's where you have to look at a lot of the details. You know, I'd have to study, you know, how is it come or God, I have a hardest time saying. How Zussman handled calf kicks in the past or leg kicks in general. What is his stance like? Is his foot facing out, you know, are you able to, get to that calf easily because that's the big thing with the calf kicks. It depends on which

way your foot is facing. If the bone is, you know, your toes are pointed more outward, you know, then the bone's going to be pointed more outward. That makes it a lot harder to do. And then you're risking, you know, like a Chris Wyman or Anderson Silva type situation where you're landing bone on bone. So that's where you have to look at a lot of those kind of details. But, you know, don't forget also Leon is Southpaw and Usman is, conventional. So when you're in this open stance, the Cathay game is a lot different too. That's true. That's true. So, yeah, so Leon would have to actually shuffle outside, most likely, again, unless Usman's foot is facing way inside like a boxer, he would have to shuffle out pretty good

to be able to even get that late kick, which can be a very good strategy because it also gets you out of that direct line of the train coming at you, right? So it makes it harder to get the takedowns, but you're also leaving yourself, you know, with your feet moving so much, you know, you need to be able to kind of plant your feet to have a good sprawl for the most part. Not always, but depending on, again, that's where you have kind of left to know your fighter and look at a lot of details because it depends on, you know, if you're, how do you sprawl, you know, because it depends on what kind of shots too, right? And what kind of shot?

I don't know what Usman's go-to shot is. and I don't know what Leon's go-to defense is, you know, Spraw is the common one, in which case you would ideally have planted feet and you can drive your hips into their head, you know, if it's a simple double leg coming at you. But then you also have, you know, someone going for a single leg. If that's maybe someone's go-to and he's a south paw and you're conventional, you want a single-leg him, of course, every time he throws that leg kick, your feet are going to be a little bit more up in the air.

So it's going to leave him a little bit easier to grab that single leg. So again, I'm kind of breaking it down a little bit deeper, but there's lots of details that kind of go into that when you're talking about a specific technique. And the biggest thing I think with the cat kicks, it doesn't really encourage the guy to create distance, right? if you're more like kicking the forearms or towards the head or the body or teeth kicks and things like that, it kind of encourages the guy to fight at more of a distance, right, and question covering that distance,

whereas the leg kicks actually kind of encourage the guy to cover a little bit more distance and stuff those leg kicks. Speaking of kicks, did you see Usman Nurmaga Bedoff hit that question mark kick to basically lead to his knockout or his finish over? Anderson. That was beautiful, man. That was one of the most beautiful, like, switching. That was such a cool kick,

like, way he just fooled him, and then went up top and kicked him in the foul. I was like, holy crap. Like, Usman de Madovadov, man, that guy might be the second best lightweight in the world. I mean, I think Islam's obviously number one. That's his teammate. But I'm like, man,

Usman de Mugamato's a beast. Yeah, yeah, I've seen it, man. What a beautiful job. And, you know, against Benson, too. I mean, I know Benson retired and, you know, so he's probably kind of on his way out. but, you know, Benson is absolutely as tough as they get in every aspect of the game. Absolutely, absolutely.

Real quick, before we get to a couple of ask Matt Brown questions before we get out of here, Matt, I want to ask, listen, I think it's going to be like two Tasmanian devils coming at each other, but Gaechee versus Fizziv. What an incredible fight that's going to be. I don't, my heart of heart says, like, I just, I have a hard time picking against Justin Gachie outside of certain matchups. Like I picked him to beat Charles Oliver That did not work out too well for me

I you know I picked obviously I think I picked Habib to beat him And I think I picked Poria to beat him But Gaei is like I just call him the human car crash Like you do not come out of this You do not come out of Sorry to bring like PTSD for car crashes Matt

You do not You do not walk in and walk out of a fight Against Justin Gachie is the same person But man Fazevasivus looks so good The way he picked apart Havio de Sannios and I mean, that was a brilliant performance. I don't know, man.

Like, this is another one. Like, I'm 55-45-45. I'm leaning to Gaichi just because that dude is such a freaking human-wrecking machine. But Fiziv is so good. Dude, I'm going to go. I'm going to pick way against you on that. I think unless Gage and uses his wrestling, which now is the time to do it, I think Fiziv, I'm not going to say he's going to have an easy night,

but he's going to beat it. Fizeev is an absolutely phenomenal striker. Like Gagy's not going to get off his leg kicks like he has on other people. He's not going to land his big looping shots like he has on other people. He's not good. I don't think he's going to be able to take the shots, you know, with kind of with his chin tucked and his guard up like he has against other people. And I love Justin Gagy.

I hope he doesn't listen to this and fucking want to fight me next. I mean, I love to fight him never. But, yeah, I hope, you know, There's no bad blood or anything. And that's why, you know, breaking down these fights sometimes, you know, makes it as difficult, right, especially maybe an active fighter and everything. And I hate to pick against Justin Gagey because I think he's a phenomenal fighter and he's everybody's favorite fighter to watch.

But I think it's a huge mistake on his part to try to stand with Fizeev. And all I can say, you know, is if he does do that, you know, I hope he proves me wrong. like more power to him. But Faisiv, I think, is just a phenomenal striker through and through. And his just-engaging work, does a lot of his best work with toughness and just throwing hard as he can and just being there and putting it back on you. I just don't see all that working against Fiziziz. Because I think Fiziziz have all those same attributes with about 10 times more technique.

Well, and, you know, we know this, Matt. You know, we talk about like things that happen. the durability runs out on everybody. You can only take so much damage in the sport. We know that. And I'm not saying the clock is taking a Justin Gagey by any stretch of imagination. But, you know, we've all seen it like forever. You can't knock out Roy Nelson.

The guy's got a concrete chance it's impossible. Well, Mark Hunt said otherwise. You know what I mean? Like, that's just the sport. Everyone that every, I say this all the time, Matt. When you depend on durability as one of your biggest weapons, man, it is a double-edged sword because not only are you using it as a weapon to to defend strikes and survive, but you're also getting hit a lot.

And that adds up over time. And the human body can only take so much damage before it just starts falling apart. And I'm not saying Gachy's there yet. I'm absolutely not saying that. He's still a fairly young guy. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, like, eventually it runs out on everybody. And you know, we've said this a million times.

Like, I always say telling a guy he has a great chin is a backhanded compliment because that means you take a lot of punches. Like, I think defense. Like not getting hit is the better chin. Like not getting hit is the better defense. Not proven that you can get punched in the face 95 times and survive. Yeah. And look, his durability might be the same as it was 10 years ago.

I have no idea. And, you know, but I think even if it's the same as it was 10 years ago, he's fighting Fize, who is a hard puncher with a lot of technique behind him. So I don't think his durability, you know, I'm not going to say that, you know, if he ends up losing this fight, it's because of his durability. I'm going to say it's because of Picey. Yeah.

Oh, I mean, he's unbelievable. His striking is off the charts. I mean, he, I know he trained a lot in Thailand. Uh, his kicks are nasty. His, he's so fast, too. Like, he's a really quick, nasty striker. Really, and I know you love good technique. He is, his technique is as close to flawless as you'll see in this division.

He is just nasty. spinning he's their spinning attacks really really well never allows himself to get out of position when he does it because you and I both know some guys throw spinning stuff and they're just doing it

and puts them completely out of well I mean it happens and puts you out of position he typically doesn't do that fast nasty accurate it's I don't man I love this fight this is like dude I love the well to wait title fight but I think this is the one

I'm most excited about like this is just going to be an incredible I think everybody is And the big question, this is what a, if I'm just, you know, if we're going to talk about coaching, if I'm Justin Gagey's coach, we know he's a good wrestler. We know he can probably take Fizu down. Fizu is not the level of wrestler Gajie is. Yeah. Gajie, go take him down.

Right? Like, don't risk it. Like there's just not, maybe, you know, Gajie proves me wrong. Maybe he goes out, stands with Fizzeev and gets a big knockout and we're all. all blown out of our seats. This is fucking MMA. That's what happens every weekend. We watch a card of UFC fights or whatever.

Maybe Gage is that guy this week. If you're coaching him, if you're strategizing for him, that's not what you tell him to do. He's the wrong guy. Yeah. And you're absolutely, listen, who would have predicted that Marabda Wallace really would have gone out there in 5045 Peter Yon? I know I didn't.

mean so you just never know that's the unpredictability of the sport maybe gachi knocks out as even the first round you don't know but i think i love justin gage i think he's a monster i love that dude every time i think about i'm like dude i just wish you would use his wrestling more he's such a good wrestler when he wants to he just doesn't do it yeah i just don't see fizeb making a lot of the mistakes or gassing out the way some guys have you know i mean how many times have we seen guys punch up Gagy pretty bad. He's rocked. You know, and they end up either kind of gassing out or getting a little timid because they hit him with everything they got and he's still there. But they lose a little bit of technique, you know, all these different scenarios like this

based off of Justin Gagy's durability. I don't see Piziz making these same mistakes. I don't see him getting wild. I don't see him, you know, gassing out. I don't see him, you know, again, just making any of these big mistakes that has kind of been Gage's forte to rely upon. And, you know, again, maybe he proves us wrong. You know, maybe he goes out there and leg kicks Fizeev into oblivion. You know, it's fucking possible, man. Gigi is an athlete. He's a monster.

So, you know, instead of hating me for picking against you, you know, go out there and prove me wrong. I hope. Yeah. But, you know, again, I just think Fizeev's the wrong guy to game planning like that against. Yeah, I know Gagey got mad at me because I picked Michael Johnson to beat him in his debut, and he did not like that, and he used it. And he, you know, we obviously, we got past. So he's a good dude.

I've talked to him many times since then. But he definitely gave me shit for it. He definitely, he did not forget that when I talked to him after the device. You picked him to beat me. And I was like, I got it wrong. I haven't been, but it was a hell of a fight. So, yeah, like I said, that's, you know, go out there and go out there, prove me wrong. I'd be I'd be more happy you got to and prove us wrong. Although I did pick

Gagee this time. So, yeah, we'll see how it plays out. Real quick, Matt, before we get out here, obviously we put out our flyer out on Twitter earlier today for Ask Matt Brown. I got a couple questions to throw at you before we get out of here. Of course, the ever popular Matt Brown asked Matt Brown segment where you can ask Matt Brown questions about training, nutrition, anything, even dating advice. I think that's my favorite is the Matt Brown dating advice. this was this was a I'm gonna start up with like a fun one but there's kind of a deep one in here I want to ask you but the fun

one this is a good one somebody asked your favorite guitarist from the 90s and I was like that's a good question because we both love metal but I'm thinking like from the 90s specifically what who is your favorite guitar from the 90s that's a good question oh that's not even a good question

you know how simple easy that one is well who's your favorite from the 90s like not now who's your current who's your 90s favorite guitarist you don't already know tell me dime bag bro oh yeah of course

come on man that's the easiest question ever dime bag that's your boy right there yeah come on man that's the easiest question ever there I'm so conflicted I got tickets to see Metallica in Detroit this year

and the weird sort of Pantera is opening for them and I'm like because I saw Pantera I saw the real Pantera like on Ozfest I saw the real Pantera. Did shots of Jack Daniels

with the real Pantera backstage. That's back when I worked at a record store. Legendary, bro. Yeah, dude, I saw the real Pantera. I don't know how I feel about this new version, like this weird, not quite, like, I don't know. I don't know if I feel good about it.

I just wish they'd call it a Pantera tribute because that's what it is. It's not Pantera. It's Phil Anselmo and Rex needing some money and, you know, putting together. a great tribute. I mean, I've seen some of the... I mean, Zach Wilde's playing.

He's playing guitar. Zach Wild's awesome. Yeah, Zach is awesome. And I've seen some of the videos on YouTube and stuff and watch the performance. They do a great job. And Zach does it in a little bit of his style. Like he throws in his own flair to it. It's a great show, I'm sure.

But it's a tribute. It is not Pantera. Yeah, I agree. All right. Here's a good one. Morning training or night training? Both. Yeah.

You know, I train twice a day, almost every day. So I have to do both. If I had to prefer one, I would want to get it over in the morning and bust it out in the morning and have a great day afterward. And, you know, go eat some steak at night. Yeah, I'm not a morning person. So, like, getting me out of bed is a problem. Like, I'm just not a morning. I'm a night owl.

But, okay, when they say morning, though, would you rather work out early in your wake-up, circadian rhythm time or or like later closer to bed maybe is what they're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you wake up a little later, but you stay up later. You're like, you're not sleeping 12 hours a day, but you know, you stay up late and wake up late.

Yeah. Well, I know that's like I said, that's like a lot of fighters adjust their schedules based on when they're going to fight. Like you try to train or get ready, like when you're actually going to walk to the cage. Because your body, because if you're used to go in bed at 10 o'clock at night, you've got to fight a lot. you've got to fight 11, then your whole body's going to be screwed up if that's how you're expected to fight. So you have to kind of adjust that, I assume. So yeah, morning or night, how about both?

That's the Matt Brown schedule. All right, here's, I'm going to hit you with the serious one because this is a, like I said, man, mental health is a real thing. And I think we all, like, you know, we all should be open enough to deal with it. And this is a good question. He said, how do you pick yourself back up if it feels like life has defeated you? We're getting real serious here. That's a good question.

That's a good. And it's different for everybody. Let me be clear. I'm not answering Matt Brown's question for it. It's different for everybody. Okay, let me be clear about that. But Matt, for you, how do you pick yourself up after you feel like life has defeated you? I tell you the first thing you got to do is start with that feeling of defeat and you have to beat that feeling because that is your inner bitch.

As a Joe Rogan calls it, that's your inner demon. That's your subconscious telling you that you're a bitch and making you feel like you're defeated. you're not defeated until you accept that you are defeated. So first you destroy that feeling. And then you start building upon that, or building on that with your daily habits. That's where your feeling of defeat comes from. You start losing internal integrity is what I call it.

Right. You say, I'm going to get up at 8 in the morning. I'm going to make my bed, brush my teeth, eat my breakfast, you know, ding, ding, ding, ding. If tomorrow you wake up and you don't make your bed, you don't brush your teeth, you don't eat your breakfast or eat some shitty breakfast, you know, two hours later, you know, like whatever, you stop believing your own self. And that's the most important daily habit I think there is, is that internal integrity.

You start trusting yourself because your subconscious has a relationship with your conscious and your conscious is what makes the decision, but your subconscious either trust it or doesn't trust it. When your subconscious does not trust your conscious decision making anymore, that's when you lose all these battles, and that's when you start feeling defeated. But again, you're only defeated when you accept that feeling that you are defeated, accept that feeling as a truth.

All it is right now is just a feeling. So destroy that feeling and forget about it, smash it to pieces, and then start building that internal integrity back. And you're going to smash everybody in the fucking world. I love it. I love it. Am I wrong in thinking? And again, this is, you know, from an outsider looking in. But, you know, can I imagine the way, like, the way I think about it is, is like, defeat is something that spirals quickly.

If you don't control it, it can absolutely spiral out of control. Like, it's one of those things that multiple. That's why you got to kill it right away. Exactly, because it's a conscious decision to accept the defeat. Once you accept it once, again, now your subconscious allows that in. So consciously, you cannot accept that you have been defeated so that your subconscious will listen to your conscious. That's what all of this, I'm not saying there's not depression as a real.

I'm not saying sadness is a real nice thing, but all these daily habits and all of these internal things that are being told to ourselves are all results of the subconscious and how much they trust our conscious and how much they believe in the reality. Our conscious builds the reality and our subconscious learns from it. so if you do not build yourself a proper reality your subconscious will accept it so you build a reality of winning you build yourself a reality of not accepting defeat and saying i will move on i will move forward i will get through this and your subconscious will begin to believe that but it takes time and i've learned this personally through the cage i could go on in a lot of details about this and I've had my own mental struggles. A lot of people look at me as, you know, one of those mentally tough guys that can fight through anything and this and that. But that's why I got immortal tattooed on my chest originally to begin with. The original concept of that was to tell

myself, no one can beat me down. No matter what happens, I can get through anything. You got to bury me six feet deep and I'm going to crawl my way out of that fucking ground. I have struggled with this my own self. I've walked into cage fights before and not believe that I put in the work. That's why they always talk about the work builds the confidence, right? It's not necessarily just the work that builds the confidence. But if I say I'm going to go do 50 reps, I go do 50 reps. And my conscious, my subconscious begins to believe my conscious. I build that trust with my conscious, the reality. And when that trust is built, you can tell yourself, I'm going to go win this fight, and now your subconscious believes you.

But if you did, you could have done a shit ton of work, but you didn't do all the work, right? You did most of the work, and maybe you even did it fucking hard, but you didn't put in that extra mile there at the end. You didn't do 51 reps when you said you were going to do 50. Then when you go tell yourself, I'm going to win this fight, your subconscious is like, why should I trust you that you're going to win this fight? You didn't even fucking, you know, do what you said you're going to do last week.

You didn't even go run those extra miles. He said you were going to run, right? And this is why I feel, and I'm getting, you know, on a larger rant here, but, you know, this is something very important I have found as a father where my kids ask me questions. and I'm like I imagine

so I see a lot of people in my gym and I imagine these people their kids asking their father's questions and I'm like why would this kid trust this father to answer these questions for him this fucking slob loser motherfucker

this do nothing motherfucker he doesn't even trust his goddamn self so how's he going to tell his fucking son what to do So that's what I thought for myself. I have to believe in myself. I have to trust myself or how are they going to trust me? So that's why I walk around the way I do.

I walk around my head held high. I'm not afraid to take my shirt off and show off what I have because I have that trust within myself. And I want to build that trust within my children. I love it. I love it. Deep thoughts with Matt Brown. You learn something. I like this.

This is good. That was a deep question too. It's a good question. dudes you're right like it's something that you have to have that mindset and uh when i saw that i was like that's a really good question because it's true we all i mean we're all we've all been guilty of it right like you let defeat get you down we're absolutely all guilty of it at some point in our lives um how do you get past it i love it uh but believe me like i've i've been there like i you know went through divorce i went through uh you know i've lost fights before i got knocked the

fuck out in front of a million people like when you wake up at the hospital you think you don't feel like life just defeated you. You know what I'm saying? When you, you know, you got to come home to your children and they've seen you get knocked out on Life TV. Like you think, you know, okay, oh, you made a little bit of money doing it. You think that that picks you up? No.

But when I wake up the next morning and I get right back to it and I show my kids that you can come back from anything and I get right back to it the next day, again, it goes back to my subconscious and my subconscious says, this motherfucker will get the fuck. through it. And when he sees that, my subconscious sees that I have that trust within myself now. So I can be confident and proud of myself every day no matter what I go through. So life has never defeated me and never will defeat me because I won't accept it defeating me. Not because bad things don't happen, not because it don't get kicked down, not because I live some fucking great grand life, but because I know that I will fucking fight through it and I've built that trust

within my own internal systems that I will rise up the next day and do what I was planning on doing already. And I will fucking succeed. I love it. I love it. It's a great mindset. Absolutely great mindset. And that goes for every walk of life, not just fighters. Every walk of life, you can have that mindset. I love it. There you go. When you say it goes for every walk of life, like very few people, you know, very, very small amount of people are going to be able to relate to me being knocked out on live TV, you know, but in front of millions of people. But don't get me wrong.

I deal with fucking regular issues too, right? I deal with all the same fucking bullshit all you guys do. Everybody listening right now. I deal with a lot of the same fucking horseshit you guys do. You know, I have money problems. I have relationship problems, have kid problems, fucking a myriad of ex-wife problems.

You name it, brother. Like I just told you earlier, like I fucking wrecked my car today. But you know what I did? I wrecked my car. I took it to the shop. I was able to drive it to the shop. Fortunately, I had a cop follow me, you know,

and got it to the shop. And I called my buddy and I said, I need to get to the gym. I went in and worked out still. So again, my subconscious, trust me, he knows I'm getting to the fucking gym. Like you're going to have to do more to me than that to keep me out. Yeah, absolutely. I love it.

That was a good question and a very, very strong answer. I like that. Very good. So, yeah, if you got questions, do not hesitate. Do the hashtag, ask Matt Brown. You'll see the tweet over on my Twitter. Every show we're going to try to answer a few questions when we can. and get some more of these questions.

That was good. I like that. Also, got excited to talk about Dimebag Daryl again. So maybe remind me of Pinterra. I can't believe you didn't guess Dynbeng Dary. Well, I was, I was, I was, here's one, here's the thing. I know some of the guitarists you like now,

but I was trying to think like 90s. I don't know why I didn't think of Dimebag. He just didn't pop in my head. I was like, well, there's, because there are a lot of good guitarists out there. Like, there are legitimately, like, I love Zach Wild. There's a great example. Like, I love Zach Wilde.

He's an incredible guitarist. I was like, I don't know, maybe. but yeah that's true i should have known i should have known dime back that's your guy uh yeah so we'll be back next week we'll talk about the fallout from oosman and edwards uh next weekend uh next weekend cheetah verib corey sanhagan next weekend hell of a fight so we'll talk about that and everything else we'll be back and we'll also do another camp catch up with matt brown as he continues to get ready for court mcgee uh matt any uh sponsors anybody you want to give a shout out to as we do each and every week here on the show you know man the immortal coffee dot com you got to go

try it out, bro, some of the best fucking coffee you've ever had. You also know R-O-O-T-I-N-E-M dot CO. God, I'm really slow at all those spellings, but look, you guys got to check them out. I'm sure

everybody would love it, man. Everybody needs the precision nutrition that they bring. It's just all it is is just a basic multivitamin, but it's not a store-bought multivitamin. You take, they take your blood, they take your DNA from your saliva, and they build a multivitamin based off your needs. So you're not getting too much of one thing and not enough of another thing.

I mean, once you kind of look through it, go through their website and read about it, it makes perfect sense, and it's going to blow your mind. Like, why didn't I do this 10 years ago? And it's something very important to me that I take regularly. Other than that, you know where to find me, man. At I am the immortal Twitter and Instagram. Let's go. Love it.

Love it. Matt, we'll be back next week. Make sure to check us out all of your favorite podcast platforms, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. Enjoy UFC 286 this weekend. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. The Vox Media Podcast Network.