MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: UFC 290 Review, Alexander Volkanovski vs. Islam Makhachev 2 and Matt Brown Offers Advice to Fighters While Teasing His Future Plans

Episode Date: July 11, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with Matt Brown and Damon Martin discussing the fallout from UFC 290 including Alexander Volkanovski’s lopsided win over Yair Rodriguez, Alexandre Pantoja defeating Brandon Moreno and Dricus Du Plessis’ stunning upset over Robert Whittaker. Plus Brown will offer some advice to his fellow fighters about planning for the future and following Robbie Lawler's retirement, he teases an upcoming card that could potentially serve as a landing spot for the final fight of his own career. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster,

The Downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two,

ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend. Matt Brown returning to the show. Matt, what's going on? It took a week off,

and I'd say what? A lot happened in that week. Let me tell you. Yeah, a lot happened. and a lot of good happen, right? A lot of, at least not like coke binges or pregnant women, you know, nothing bad like that, right? Yeah, nothing crazy like that. Nothing to that point, true.

That is true. Can I ask? Every week there's something terrible like that doesn't happen in MMA is a good week. That's a very good week. Dude, it's so crazy. Like, there's been so many, like, court hearings and stuff. lately and I'm just like, was there any court hearings going on this week? Like, I know it's a terrible perspective to have, but like,

beginning of the week, I'm like, so what's going on in court this week? Because it's just been nonstop lately. Yeah, well, I guess we're not expected to be the most civil of people, right? Like, we wouldn't be doing his job if we were all civil. You wouldn't volunteer to get punched in the head if you were just like the most normal people in the world. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, you know, it's so funny, man, when people say shit, like, I kind of agree with Dana the other day.

Like, I think he's taking a lot of shit. And he's like, look, this is a fucking fight game. Like, people say stupid shit. You know, like, imagine all of the stupid shit Dana has listened to and heard his whole life. And at least I don't know, the last 20 years or whatever. Like, I kind of agreed with them. I was like, yeah, dude. Like, we're a bunch of fucking savage.

Like, like, there's got to be something wrong with you to want to do this sport. Right? like this like if you're a normal person or you got a good head on your shoulders to start with you know it's different like once you start making money right but like you know you go be a fucking doctor or you're fucking you know best in real estate there's you know what I'm saying like there's a million other things to do yeah I think listen I get it like you know I get you know I get like obviously what we're talking about is all is erod as sonya dracus duplecy thing from the weekend, which, by the way, Dracus Duplice, man.

What a great, incredible performance. Finishing Robert Whitaker, I did not see that coming. If there was one fight on that main card that I thought... Did he see that coming? If there was one fight on that entire UFC 290 card that I was like, oh, yeah, I could pretty much tell you what's going to happen. It was that one, and it did not go the way I thought it would go. But, yeah, so afterwards, of course, the conversation was Israel out of sign.

You got, you know, a little ugly, some racial slurs getting thrown around, things like that, and racial words. I should say, because obviously it was Adasanya using the N-word and things like that. And like, I don't know, man. Like, I don't, like, so, I feel like some of that stuff's not necessary. Like, I just don't feel like why. But at the same time, like, I actually do kind of side with Dana a little bit where I'm just like, who really cares?

Like, I mean, listen, like, do I think, like, when Connor was saying certain things going overboard with Khabib did I think that was a little over the line, sure. I think there were some things. Like, he said things about his wife and things like that. And I was like, you know, he did that with Dustin's wife too. And I'm like, all right. Like, say things about the fighter. But, like, you know, families should be a little bit more off limits.

Like, especially wives and children. But, like, you know, I don't know. I just, like, I, I'm not saying it's good. I'm not saying what Israel said was amazing. Like, I'm applauding him for it. But at the same time, I kind of agree with Dana. Like, I'm just like, I don't really care. Like, I don't know.

Maybe I'm just to, I think at this point, Matt, I'm just desensitized to it all. I'm just like, eh. Like, you know, like, I don't know. Like, I don't, maybe that's just, maybe that's just me at this point. I'm just like, eh, I've heard, I've heard worse. It's kind of what I'm saying. It's a fight game, bro. What the fuck do you expect?

But also, you know, Dana specifically, it's like, you know, what the fuck is he supposed to do? If he had, if he tried to do something every time a fighter acted out or said something that the media doesn't like or the mainstream has a problem with, like, he literally wouldn't have time to do anything else in his entire, right? he wouldn't get anything else done. Yeah. I think what's weird,

what's interesting about our sport in MMA, and it's so different than almost every other major sport out there, is that fighters weirdly all live very much in the spotlight all the time, like with social media and interviews and appearances and things like that. Like fighters constantly live in the spotlight. Like, I'm not, like, I'm not defending when people say dumb things, but I'm saying that like people say things like because I guarantee you it like there's a reason why you never you don't really see a lot of football players or basketball players or other sports people on online because their companies tell them not to do it like don't do it and they're not as accessible and so they're not talking or doing interviews and things like that and fighters very much live under that spotlight constantly now does that mean fighters shouldn't like you know do I wish someone would put a gag order on Sean Strickland sure because I think what he says is unbelievably stupid.

But, you know, that's probably worst case scenario with Sean Strickland. You know what I mean? Like that's on a whole other end of the world on the whole other end of the spectrum. But yeah, I don't know. Like I just, I don't know. I just tend to tune it out. I don't know. Maybe that's just the pessimist of me that I've just learned to just kind of tune it out at this point.

Yeah, well, you're going to hear it somewhere, right? Like he's not like he's, you shot Strickland. It's not like he's the only person in the world saying stupid shit. right? We're on social media all day. We hear stupid shit all the fucking time. You know, it's like, okay, well, this guy's a, you know, I don't think anybody expected Sean Strickland to come out with some profound philosophies that were going to be life-changing

for everyone either, right? So, you know, it's like just enjoy it, you know, like his life is going to go how it goes and that's cool. And, you know, who gives a fuck? And that's why I think Dana's like that. He's like, you guys are talking about it, Like all PR is good PR, right? You guys are fucking talking about it.

So let's fucking go. Keep saying stupid shit. I don't care. You're not hurt no one. Yeah, I've learned like it's, it's kind of like the whole Colby Covington thing. Like, Colby has continued to get wilder and crazier with some of the things he says. And I've just learned to stop listening.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, I just tune it out. Like, I, like, when Colby's speaking, I've just learned that I probably don't want to listen. Like, you know. Well, to be fair, you also cover the sport. and you listen to everything, every fighter. Like, Dana, like, you know, you hear these things that have been saying, motherfuckers been saying crazy shit for over 20 years now, you know what I mean?

Like, how long you've been covering a sport? Probably 20 years. Yeah, 20 years exactly this year. Yeah, I think you've heard enough shit, right? Where you're like, okay, I can tune these motherfuckers out. Like, you know, you know who the intelligent fighters are that are going to actually have a conversation. You know who the ones are that are just. going to say stupid shit just like if you turn on a TV show like you kind of know what you're

going to get right yeah it's also certain fighters lean into it like colby's obviously leaned into it right and i think sean strickland has too because i remember interviewing sean i don't know if remember the story like he was out for like a couple years because he had a really bad motorcycle accident and he was out of action for like a year and a half and i interviewed him coming back from that and we did a big interview talking about his motorcycle injury and he was always a little a little out there, but it was a really good interview. Like a really, like it was a pretty impactful interview. It was crazy.

Everything you went through. But he didn't go like full on while just like saying insane shit. Like he didn't go that far. But I think people started paying attention to it and he leaned into it. You know what I mean? And that's like it's like the, it's like you got kids. Like when your kids acting up, a lot of times they just want you to pay attention to them.

And if you don't, if you ignore them, they stop doing it, right? Like they'll stop doing it because you're not giving them. they want you to, they want you to freak out. They want you to pay attention to it. And I think that's kind of where a guy like Sean Strickland, like he's just leaned into the insanity and people always freak out about it. So he just keeps leaning into it. If you ignore it, you know, he might just kind of go away because he's like,

if no one's listening and no one cares, then why am I going to spout off and say dumb shit? So that's, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but that's kind of the feeling I get. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. And, you know, whether it's lover, hate that he gets in return, like people feed into it. You know, like if it's hate, like, they're still responding. You know what I mean?

So like, that's all he wants. You know, she's just, yeah, I mean, I think the kid analogy is perfect, right? Like, my daughter is a great example. Like, she acts out all the time when she's not getting attention. And whether it's good attention or bad attention, she's like, I'm getting attention from dad. So I fucking wait. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Yeah, it was just, like, yeah, it was just, like, I said, it's just, you know, that's just how it is. Like I said, people will do that. And yeah, that's probably a big part of what it is. It's funny on Twitter over the weekend, you said you, like, unfollowed a bunch of people and you're just like, you've got to get away from the discourse sometimes. Like, you've got to weed out certain things. And I'm not going to say who I've unfollowed because there are people I have

unfollowed in recent weeks and years for similar reasons. Glad to know I made the cut, by the way. Someone had a funny comment on Twitter when I said that to you. And they're like, boy, that would be an awkward. conversation if he just stopped following you on Twitter. But, but, uh, but yeah, like, like, dude, I get it. Like, when you said that, I was like, dudes, I get it because you get in that, like, I went, dude, here's a good story.

I'm going on a vacation coming up next week. I'm going to San Diego Comic Con. And I went on vacation a couple years ago. And it was the first year in a really long time where I just completely disconnected from social media. Like, I was not, like, the only thing I was doing online was posting photos, like on Instagram. I wasn't reading.

I wasn't looking. at anyone's posts. I was just posting myself and then getting off, right? Like, I was just getting out of there. And after being away for, yeah, and after being away for like a week, I came back and I finally started catching up on like, you know, whatever. And I was like, my God, I didn't realize

how much like happier I was just being unplugged for a week. Like just being away from it. Because even though I don't hate social media, I really don't. Like I enjoy, like, I have some funny conversations on Twitter. I enjoy interacting with people on Instagram. It's not that. But there's just, there is.

you do get inundated sometimes with negativity and like you're talking about political discourse and shit like when I came back I didn't write it was like a way to have been lifted off my shoulders a little bit like I just got away from it all for a week and and it was just nice to unplug like I think we all need that at some point yeah it feels so good and I think all I was really getting at I don't know not all but like a big thing I was getting

it was really just the political shit man like I swear to God like I cannot hear a fucking another thing about people that, you know, wanting to diss Hunter Biden or Donald Trump or, you know, I'm like, bro, like, I get it like it's every now and then or like if you go to the news, like you follow the fucking news, like, of course they're going to do that. That's what you expect. But then like, you know, these people that that just like that becomes their identity is so fucking aggravating, man.

I'm just like leave it alone, bro. Like get a fucking life. like all these people suck like just move on yeah generally speaking when you're doing that like yeah you're going to definitely have people who agree with you but you're also you know you're doing it because it's going to piss people off too what i don't care who you're talking about like you know i mean like i don't care if you're liberal or conservative whatever like you know that's a big part of it right like you're you're definitely going to get people who agree with you but you're also going to get a ton of people who don't and it's almost like the sean strickland thing

you know you're getting attention for it like you say the things And I just, I don't know, dude. I'm with you, man. Like, I just, that's kind of like how I went. Like, I do follow some news people, like actual news people on Twitter. So I know I'm going to see it sometimes. But, like, when certain people are just, like, constantly spouting off about it, dude, I'm just like, all right, I can't. As I said, I did the same thing, man.

I went there and unfollowed a few people. So I just say, I can't take it, man. Like, I just, I'm not even saying I agree or disagree with you, although I would probably say largely I disagree with the people I unfollowed. But, like, I just can't. I just don't want to see it anymore. Like, it's just, I don't have, I don't have room in my life to read that stuff 24-7. And unlike you, Matt, like, as a fighter, like, yeah, you're on social media.

Like, my job involves social media. So I have to be on there constantly. You know what I mean? So, like, it's harder for me to escape it than it is for you. Like, you probably look at Twitter once, maybe twice a day, if that, like, you may go once or twice a week. I don't know. My job involves being on social media, so I can't avoid it.

So, like, I need to get away. from like when it's that kind of commentary dude i just need to get away from it yeah well i've probably embraced it more in the past couple years than uh i used to i used to only go on yeah like you like i would post and get off like i never scrolled never read anything but in the past couple years i have kind of discovered the positivity of social media like i've learned a lot of stuff on social media and i follow a lot of great people man i get a lot of great content find a lot of value and a lot of posts with that said, that's exactly what I was getting at. Because that's all that I want on my social media now.

I don't want no weak shit. I don't want no divisiveness, no negativity. That's literally all I use it for, you know, other than, you know, my own uses, right? But like, I want, you know, high frequency individuals that are going to be sending, you know, positive messages or, or, you know, just good stuff, man.

Like, you're things about you. That's what I'm looking for. That's one thing I love. I told me I was going to San Diego Comic Con next week. One thing I love about that experience is like, it's everyone that goes to that thing. It's like everyone's kind of joyful, if that makes sense. Like everyone's just happy to be there.

Like we're all kind of like just fans in that moment. Like I love MMA. I love mixed martial arts. But like there's a lot of negativity of mixed martial arts. And I'm not saying everyone has to be. jumping around and happy, and I'm not saying I don't feed into the negativity. I want to say I feed into the negativity. I do stories that may not have a negative connotation to them, not because I'm trying

to be negative, but because, like, that's just the nature of the story. Like, when I do a story about endeavor making record profits and the fighter still getting like a very small percentage of that, that could be seen as negative. But for me, it's just, like, accurately covering a story. But, like, I do feel like there, you do get, like, real divisiveness in MMA. And, like, sometimes it's just like, like this weekend, man, like UFC 290 went down and watching Alexander Volcanovsky go out there and be brilliant yet again. Like, that's one of those moments when I appreciate the sport when the majority of people

can watch that and just appreciate the brilliance of a great performance like that. Like, that's when I truly love this sport as when we could watch, we can all agree on a fight and be like, man, that was just special. We just watched something special. Or like, you know, Brandon Moreno and Alexandria Pantoche and just absolutely going to war for five rounds, an amazing title fight, or Dan Hooker and Jalen Turner, same thing. Like, I love moments when we can all agree and be like, that was just really, really cool. Or of course, Robbie Lawler's retirement.

Like, there was not a single price. I think deep down inside Nico Price was rooting for Robbie Lawler on Saturday night, even though, unfortunately he had to be the guy to get knocked out by him. But, like, everybody felt good about that moment. You know, like, those are the moments when I really love this sport. Did you have Moreno winning? Or Pantosia? I had Pantosia.

I had him 3-2. I had him 3-2. It was a close fight. I mean, I know it sounds cliche, but it really was a game of inches. It really came down to Pantosia, getting the takedowns and getting taken the back several times and controlling the fight on the ground. But, yeah, I leaned Pantosia. I thought he won. It was a close fight, though, and I don't think it will take much for Marano to get back there and get a rematch at some point in the near future, even though he has a couple losses to Panosia.

Pantosia, but good fight though, man. I mean, and I'll be honest, I thought Pantosia was cooked after the, what, first round he came out. He was looking gassed, and I was like, man, this is bad. And boy, did he just keep coming. I was super impressed. Right, right. Now, second question, do you think Loller is actually fully retired? I do.

I think he's done. I think he's done. He is, you know, he's 41, 42 now. You know, his retirement came. kind of surprising because it wasn't like, I mean, yeah, he did, you know, he lost his last fight, but it wasn't like he was on a really bad skid

or he had these people like in his ear and be like, dude, you need to walk away. Or, you know, like, I don't know. It just kind of came out of nowhere and he's just like, yeah, it's time. And I don't know. I always, when a guy announces retirement before the fight,

I trust it more because people who retire afterwards when they're all emotional and they're in the high the moment, the higher the low, either way. Like, when they're in the high or the low, either way, I'm always questioned it because I'm just like, do when you come down, you know, that's when your emotions are going to hit

and we're going to know for sure how you feel about it. But when you announce it, like Jim Miller said this to me when I had him on the show a few weeks back when you had to take a little time off, I had Jim Miller on and Jim said, he wants to announce his fight beforehand because he wants to know going into it that's it. Like, he wants to leave everything in the cage that night.

He just wants to pour it all out there one night and be done with it and know he's walking away. And I kind of feel that with Robbie Lawler. Like hearing him talk throughout the week, I do get the sense that he's done. Interesting. The only reason I kind of asked because Lawler is that guy. He kind of, you know, he stays quiet. He's never, you don't really hear him in the news much right? Until he fights.

And then, of course, he's all over the news when he fights because every fight is a fucking barnburn. You know, so, and we all love seeing him fight. but he looked so good. And Nico Price is no chop, you know, like that's a tough, tough son of a bitch. And like, has Nico been knocked out before? I mean, I think he has, but, but I mean, he's super tough and always fun to watch. Yeah. Well, Lawler, you know, I didn't watch the entire fight, but from what I've seen, he just looked great, you know, every part of it.

And didn't look aged at all. and yeah, I don't know. He just didn't, you know, a lot of the things that like you're talking about, like he announced it beforehand and he's definitely the type that, you know, he's not going to try to make a big deal out of it, but, you know, it ended up being a big deal because it's freaking Robbie Lawler. But I don't know, man. I just kind of felt like he has more in him, you know.

So if he does walk away, like he's walking away the right way, right? Like he's he's not going to the wheels fall off. He's not going out on a big losing skit, getting knocked out a bunch of times before you. Like he's going out the right way on a knockout, you know, on a huge card like that. So, you know, props to him. But I could just see a big money fight luring him back. And I could see him getting a big money fight. It's possible.

I just like that to me was like the most perfect ending to a career. could imagine. Like, we, you and I both know, Matt, like, dude, most retirements in MMA

come off a really bad moment, like a bad loss, a bad knockout, you know, couple losses, whatever it is. Like, usually people,

I mean, I can't remember who told me this years ago, a fighter said this. He's like, I want to be able to walk out of the octagon. I don't want to be carried out of the octagon. Like,

and that's true. Like, most M. M. retirement's in badly. Like, let's be honest. Like,

we can count on probably two hands the amount of people who even left off a win, much less like, winner off a real highlight like you know like kabib retiring was just kind of sudden no one really saw it coming because he was on top of the world gsp retiring you know um even he didn't retire in the ring though like he did it afterwards like he did it like months afterwards um but yeah it's so rare and dude for robbie to go out there and just go scorched earth and go 38 second knockout have a classic robbie luller moment they played that video afterwards dude and even robbie was like tearing up like

dude that's you just written the perfect ending like i in a weird like i say this like in all sincerity like i hope he doesn't come back because you you could not write a better ending to that now somebody comes along and says we're going to pay 10 million dollars to fight you know so-and-so person in a bare-knuckle fight and he wants to earn 10 million dollars i'm not going to fault him for that but uh yeah you couldn't write a better ending to that because you and i both know that's not like dude think about we just talked about it a couple months ago when shogun retired how kind of sad and depressing that was. Like, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't want to see him lose to Ehor Potaria.

Like, we don't want that. You know, no one wants to remember that. No one wants that to be our last memory of Shogun Hula, right? But how do we are going to remember Robbie Lawler, a 30 second knockout, that or 38 second knockout? That's what we want. That's the image we want. Yeah, and the difference is always, like, Shogun didn't look good in that fight.

But that's what I'm saying, man. Like, Robbie looked good. Like, he's still got a lot left in the tank, man. But I guess, as I said, you want to park the car with something in the tank, right? You don't want to park on, you know, because you ran out of gas and you're on the side of the road. Yeah, you don't want someone coming up, be like, can help me push your car to the gas station? That's not the ending you. Yeah, and that's, dude, I get it.

And I think that's part of the appeal is when you, when you go out there and you had, like, in, like, natural, it's natural instinct for a guy like Robbie Lawler to go out there, win in 38 seconds, and immediately be like, well, I got to. a couple left in me. You know what I mean? I get it, dude. I get it. I'm not a fighter. I even I get that. But I think he's done. I think he is done. I think like, you know, a big part of it I know, like Jim said this too is like, you know, he wants to make promises to people and live up to those promises. I'm sure he told his kids. Like, you know, I'm done. Dad's done after this fight. I don't know what his kids think about him fighting is a very private person. So I don't know if they care if they're excited they're retiring um but you know i mean you know i hope that's the case and and dude like i said man what a savage dude he's an old school old school there's not a lot

of those guys left like yourself matt like there's not that many guys left who are that old school just badass you know started your career in a bar room kind of fire you i mean like you did not like you started state fairs and stuff like i'm not saying guys still don't do that but like there is actually a path to get to the ufc and things like that nowadays. Back when guys like you and Robbie Lawler started, now Robbie started fighting the UFC, obviously, pretty early. But like even then, it wasn't really the UFC, you and I know.

Like it was a very small version of what we have now. But like, you know, guys didn't get into fighting because they thought they were going to become millionaires in those days. Like, that's not why you got into this. That's exactly right. That's a huge difference. I see guys pro fighters all the time now. And that's what they're chasing.

And good for them, you know, that's fair. you know, that's perfectly fine. But, you know, that is what their ultimate goal is, right? Is to get famous and get money and all of these different types of things. Yeah, when we were coming up, I mean, they're just, we didn't have that option. Like, we were in it for the purity of the sport. Like, we love fucking fighting people, man. We love getting in front of people and going to war.

That was, you know, nothing. We couldn't ask for anything better. and if we never made a dive doing it, we'd probably still be doing it today. So, yeah, the game has just changed dramatically, but, you know, it's also brought some fucking high-level athletes, too, right? Like, you know, like John Jones wouldn't be here

if he wasn't making money. Yeah, I mean. He might be in jail. But, you know, there's a, you know, it's brought, like, Bo Nickel wouldn't be here, you know, like these guys like him or Yul Romero, like these guys are coming for, money, man.

And, you know, that's a great motivator for great athletes. I know you said this not that long ago. A couple episodes back, you said when you made your fighting debut, you probably had no business being in there when you did. Do you remember how much you got paid for your first fight? Get paid. I paid to fight my first time. What are you talking about?

Get paid. Your first pro fight? My first pro fight, I got a four-wheeler. That was the pay. I got a point. Yeah, that was the pay. Yeah, that was the dude. Like, I worked for him in his business, and he was putting on these fights.

And he goes, and he goes, hey, you know, instead of paying you, he's like, you know, I usually don't pay guys, like 200 and 200. And he said, this four wheel is worth like 800 bucks. You can have it if you want. I said, hell yeah, let's go, bro. That is old school when you're fighting for a four-wheeler. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, the worst part was the actual cage itself. And I still remember, man, it was built. It must have been like dog kennel panels because I had that bar right across the middle about belly button height. And I, you know, I took advantage of that. I mean, I was a striker, you know, I was a kickboxer, but I straight rammed his, you know, I straight did a double leg, you know, football tackle and rammed his back straight into that thing. crazy yeah that's what I said dude like I know it's not I know it's not fighting but like when I started covering the sport dude I didn't make any money I didn't I did not make a dime covering

the sport I just did it because I liked it I loved the sport like that's you know like I've had guys and girls or whoever reach out to me like interested being journalists and I'm just like oh yeah happy to give you advice and one of the first things like a lot of people ask was like how much do you make and I'm like that's the wrong attitude man because first you're not going to but like in reality, like, dude, I did it for free for years, and it's not because, like, people are taking advantage of me. There was just no money to be made. Like, it wasn't that, like, people were trying to take advantage of me as a writer,

but, like, you just couldn't, like, when you started fighting, people weren't making money. Like, that's, like, they weren't making hundreds of thousands of dollars at that point. Like, you had to do it because you loved to do it. You didn't get, you didn't get into fighting because you thought, man, I'm going to buy a mansion one day, and I'm going to have all these cars. Like, that was not the thought when you guys like you and Robbie Lawler started fighting. You started fighting because you loved fighting. Now, I'm not saying

the guys and girls today don't love fighting. I guarantee, I guarantee a lot of people absolutely love it. But you're absolutely right. Like, you get into it for different reasons, and that's okay. Like, I'm not going to fault anyone for wanting to make millions of dollars. Certainly not. But when you, and it's impossible really to do it now. But like, when you started and Robbie Lawler started, there was no guarantee you were going to make anything. Like, you were not guaranteed to make anything at that point. no but I'll tell you we did have in our thoughts that I mean we thought those guys were making some money you know what I mean like we thought the guys in the UFC were getting paid millions of dollars or whatever

at least I did and then you know you come to find out really quick like that's not the case you know what I mean you know like rich was probably rich Franklin was one of the first like high level guys I ever trained with and you know I think he was champion in time you know he was one of the first UFC fighters I should I train with and I think he was champion and You know, he was living pretty good, but, you know, I realized right away that, like, dude, he's not a millionaire. You know what I mean? He's not, you know, making that Mike Tyson money or anything like that.

Yeah. Do you remember the first time you got like a, like, not saying like big pay, like, first time you got like, whether it's a bonus or something, you got a paycheck and you're like, damn. Like, do you remember the first time that happened when you got money and you're like, wow? That's pretty good. Yeah, I fucking blew it all, bro. Like I got, when I came off Ultimate Fighter, I think I got like a $10,000

paycheck. I thought I was rich, man. I went and bought a brand, not brand new. I bought a jixir $750. And I got a, you know, rent at a house for like $3,000 a month in Vegas. So just a, you know, which is even kind of expensive today, you know, like this is a big, badass house. And then I went to, I still remember to this day, man, I went to,

to pay, I went to H&R block to do my taxes and then, and they're like, you have to pay taxes. Like, you're not getting money back. All right. I was, I was just blown away. I was like, what do you mean? I'm not getting money back. Like, I've got money back every time. Doesn't the government just pay you?

And yeah, so I, you know, I think I had to sell the jixir and get on the payment plan and, you know, downsize. It was just, you know, one thing after another. You know, it's a harsh way to learn. But $10,000 to me was a lot of fucking money, man. Yeah, it is. Like I said, dude, it's crazy. And, you know, you live and you learn, right?

Like, you have to go through it, man. Like, dude, I'll never forget. Donald Seroni, he was, like, 10 bonuses in or whatever. And he's just like, I won this bonus. He's like, now I can pay my taxes. Like, dude, you got to be realistic with it, man. Like, that money will come. That you'll get big money.

But, boy, you got to pay it back quick. And that's the thing about MMA, too. It's like, when you fight, like, people say, all the time. You only get paid when you fight. You only fight twice a year or whatever. Like you got to stretch that money. You're going to make it work for you. Like I know you're into real estate and stuff. Like, dude, you got a plan.

Like, because again, not everyone's Connor McGregor. Not everyone's making or John Jones. Not everyone's making the kind of money that you're just going to be able to sit on for the rest of your life. Like, you better be smart about it and have backup plans for when fighting is over and have ideas what you're going to do when it's done because the majority of people don't. Or I don't say the majority of people don't.

I say a lot of people still don't because you get that big money or you get that you get a $50,000 bonus and man, you're like, oh, man, I have some money. And you got to realize that $50,000, like, that has to last you the rest of the year. Like, that's got to last you from now until December or whatever, you know. Yeah, you know, $50,000 seems like a lot of money until you get it, you know, and you realize how little money that actually is, you know, it's just not as much. And I know a million people listening right now probably going to be like, oh, what a prima don't or, you know, some shit.

like um but do 50,000 dollars is not you know when that's what you're living up of but you just got that in the bank. Um, this is not what you think it is man. You know, and most of these guys today, I mean, they're starting at what 10 and 10 or 20 and 20 or something. And you know, that just doesn't go a long way, especially when you're trying to, um, you know, live your life. If you get, especially if you get kids or anything, but you know, you're trying to train all the time. So you're trying to, you know, there's so many different pieces to it, man. And, but like you said, that's exactly what got me into real estate. That was a huge motivator for me.

And I'm absolutely doing great in it. And, you know, that's a very long-term project is real estate. And, excuse me. And it's just, you know, that's the way you get wealthy is those types of things. Investing it, make your money work for you. The fighting is all just temporary. And I think a lot of fighters should see that as the fighting is a way. to earn money to put into assets,

you know, whether even if it, hell, even if you want to do IRAs and 401Ks, which I don't necessarily recommend, but, you know, if that's the way you want to go, that's the way you want to go. But assets, man, whether it's businesses or real estate, whatever it is. Like, that's,

that's how you build in the long term. Yeah, it's crazy. Like, I know, obviously fighters aren't making what basketball players made, but one of the guys, I just loved a success story. it's like when you hear about a guy like Shaquille O'Neal, like he just invest in, but like he owns like 20 Papa John's

restaurants and five guys. Now again, I understand that like fighters aren't making that kind of money. But like Daniel Cormney's a good example. Now Daniel Cormier made more money. He was, you know, I'm sure he made quite a bit of money as a champion and things like that. But like he invested in businesses. Like he owns a number of businesses that like he actually

has that he owns. And like that's where you, that's the smart kind of investment you have to make. Like, you know, like that's how you do like get a, you know, buy a five guys franchise or buy a pot, whatever it is. Like, you know, that's where you start making money work for you because that's the kind of stuff that doesn't go away. And you can continue to make money off of that 10 years, 20 years down the road. And as they always say about real estate, what's the old phrase, buy land because God ain't making any more of it. Like, that's true.

Like, dude, buy it because it's going to come back around. Like, you know, real, like, dude, where real estate's at today is insane. Like, you can make some serious money off that, just own a property like that. So, yeah, dude, make your money work. work for you. That's the, that's the only way to survive, especially, again, I mean, you know, any fighter, you know, any fighter is not going forever. Like, you're going to have to retire probably sometime in your 40s at the latest. And, you know, that's it. Like, that's your job and you're not doing, like, you still got another 40 years or whatever to live off that whatever you made in that 40 years. Like, that's it.

Well, well, that's why I've always, like, people ask me, say, you know, when are you going to retire? And I'm like, well, I know I have an idea of when I'm going to switch jobs, but we're not retiring. People always say that they use the retirement. And like we're not actually retiring from, you know, we're just stopping doing one thing and moving to something else. But it's not retiring at all. You know, maybe it made for Connor, maybe Anderson Silva or John Jones. You know, like there's guys, GSP, like there's guys that get to retire from this. but 99% of us like we're just switching jobs bro it's not retiring yeah I think it's a it's a very uh

it's a term that that really kind of makes it sound like you're you know like you're gonna go chill on the beach for the rest of your life you know what I mean like oh you did all this hard work and you fought your ass off and you know like Robbie law there had fucking wars and you know amazing fights and bro he ain't going to retire what do you what are you going to do? You know, even I think Cowboys said he made $10 million through his life. Dude, if he just has $10 million sitting in the bank, he ain't retired, and he's got to go do something else.

He's out in Hollywood. You know, like there's the, you know, people got to think about that shit, man, when especially young fighters, when you're coming up, you know, you're not going to retire, bro. You're going to switch jobs. It's that simple. You're switching to something else. Now, you can build some things so that when you switch,

it makes it a lot easier, which is like what I've been trying to do. That's why I own businesses, Airbnbs and things like this. Or you can make it harder. Then, I mean, we see that all the time. How many guys, you know, get four or five fights in UFC, three or four fights, whatever, and then they go back to living like shit again, you know?

Yeah, well, that's the reality also. Like I said, we talk about retirement. Like, you know, we talk about guys who are ready to retire, guys who have retired. Like, it's hard to walk away. from that money too because you're not going to chances are you're not going to make $50,000 in one night

and anything else you do so it's hard to get away from that if you don't have any backup plan you've not made those investments you've not made that plan for the future and you're only focused on your fighting career you're only focused on the money you're making for fighting I should say then you are in a bad spot because

it's going to dry up at some point like it's going to go the well will run one dry on everybody you know what I mean? Yes. You know it's a sad state of affairs like dude, like, I mean, obviously, you know, he'd lived way beyond his means, but like, dude, Mike Tyson had more money than anybody, and he went broke. Like, it's not any, it can happen to anybody. Like, you know what I mean?

I don't care if you're making, you know, $200,000 a year, you're making $200 million a year. You can find a way to go broke. Like every year, if Mike Tyson can blow however much, I don't know how much he was worth, like $500 million, whatever he was worth, he blew it all. And, you know, he obviously turned it around and came back. But think about that, dude, $500 million or whatever it is, you find a way to blow it. Anybody can.

blow it. Like, you can all, you can, anyone can find a way to blow it. But have you ever seen the lottery curse? Oh, yeah, I have.

Yeah, there's something like, I think what 80% or something of, people that hit the lottery end up going broken like five years or something. Yeah. Yeah, dude,

it's crazy. Yeah, that's what I always talk about money management there with all my young fighters. Like, you know, open an LLC, you know, have a business and start investing that shit,

man. You know, again, I'm not a big, like, stocks guy and securities and 401Ks, IRAs, all that shit. I think it's kind of garbage. But it's better than nothing, man. Don't put that shit in a bank and don't be blowing your money. Live below your means and go put that money to work, man.

And you can live a great life? Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask, um... Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering

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With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. apply. Speaking of the fights from this past week and a guy coming up, your guy Josiah Harold was going to fight this week.

And of course, we know unfortunately he got pulled. They found he had a rare brain disease. Have you talked to him since everything happened? Yeah, I've texted with him. We haven't talked in person, but he's been in great mood. And, you know, he was getting blown up. So I tried not to bug him too much. But, you know, he was in a great mood.

He's very grateful. And, you know, he's just a good dude like that. He's got a good head on his shoulders. you know, he stays strong through everything, strong through it all, man. So, you know, he's still grateful and feels blessed that he even had the opportunity. And, you know, if anything, man, it was a blessing of disguise, right? Like, if they had not discovered that, Lord knows what would have happened. And I'm glad they discovered it because me and him put in lots and lots of hours and hours of sparring rounds.

And from what I had heard, you know, about Moy-Moi. It was like, if he gets hit the wrong way once, even in sparring, he could kill him. And it's like, it's like, damn, bro, like, I would have hated to be that guy, you know. That's scary too, right? Like, you're working with this guy on a daily basis. And I'm sure, as you said, you spent hours upon hours working with him. That's scary to hear something like that, right? Like, to hear that kind of diagnosis and be like, man, like, that's kind of chilling, right?

Like, you probably get like a chill down your spine. You hear that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I totally got to chill down my spine. That's exactly right. And I'll tell you what, man, it's the bigger, well, that's not the bigger thing. You know, again, I'm very grateful he got diagnosed, got taken care of.

You know, it makes you question some of the athletic commissions that didn't ever have him get brain scans on the way up, right? Like he had seven fights, man. It could have happened any of those fights. And, you know, so it makes you question the medical treatment. medicals they force you to do. But with that said, it sucks also because I think he would have beat Jack Della, to be honest. And everybody's going to say I'm crazy or whatever. You know, that's a great matchup for Josiah.

And Jack's best chance was the fact that he was on six days notice. And I didn't want to call out too much and jinx, Josiah, or anything. But I had total faith. He was going to go in there and beat him other than the sixth day notice thing because Josiah wasn't training like he was fighting. You know, I mean, he was still training, and he has, like, ridiculous cardio. He's an amazing athlete, one of the best athletes I've ever met in my life.

But matchup-wise, that was a terrible matchup for Jack. Respect to him for taking that fight, but Josiah was, I don't think he knew what he was getting into. Like, Josiah was an absolutely horrible matchup for him. And you guys are going to see that from Josiah in the future. Like, the dude has some of the best grappling I've ever felt. And from my understanding, he's still under, UFC contract. Like they didn't let him go.

Like they didn't like, you know, they didn't say, hey, you're not like, they're keeping him. He's obviously got to have surgery and everything, but this has happened before. Like, there's other fighters who have done this. He's got to have surgery to get a fixed. But, like, he can fight again. And from my understanding, like he's going to stay at the, you know, the UFC's going to keep him. And thankfully, like you said, thankfully the UFC caught it because that's, that's terrifying. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm glad the UFC does that kind of testing. It is a little scary, though, the like other promotions don't. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he fought for other.

I don't want to call them out. I think LFA is a great organization. I really do. HedSores. Hold on. Hold on. It's not the promotion. It's the athletic commission.

Commission, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this is a Vegas commission, props to them. I know he fought in Kentucky and Ohio. So it had nothing to do with the promotion.

Maybe, I guess maybe some promotions might force extra medicals, but I highly doubt it. They need guys to come in. They're not going to. to force extra medicals. Yeah, but they need to, that's kind of scary, though,

because, I mean, he just had a fight, you know, a couple, what, a couple months ago, whatever it was, like when he fought in LFA. So, and that was in Kentucky. So, yeah, that's terrifying. I'm glad they caught it.

But I actually, I'm, like, super happy the EFC's going to keep him around and, like, let him heal up and then let him get a fight. Like, you know what I mean? Like, we saw that this weekend with that Val Woodburn guy who fought Bo Nicol. I mean, he was stepping into

probably the worst possible situation fighting Bo freaking nickel on, on four days, notice, you know what I mean? Like that's like the absolute, like you actually were super confident in Josiah going out there and beating Jack Della. Who in their right mind was giving Val Woodburn a realistic chance to beat Bo Nicol? And dude, credit to him and he came out swinging.

He came out swinging. Bo caught him, you know, knocked him out good for Bo. I think Bo Nichols is the best prospect we've had since John Jones in all honesty. But like, dude, credit to him. And Dana said it to Post-Fi Presser. Like, of course. Like, he stepped up. We're going to give him another fight.

Like, I appreciate that because, like, that's, you know, like I said, dude, took a shot, you know what I mean? And it didn't work out for him. But, you know, he went out. Dude, I don't, yeah, he got knocked down 38 seconds. I know that's going to suck. Like, there's no way around that. But, dude, he came out swinging, dude.

He was throwing hammers a nickel. And I was like, good for you, man. Like, take a shot. You know what I mean? Like, you didn't lay down for anybody. Yeah. And the nice thing, too, is the UFC's going to, you know, being that he's under contract, he'll use the UFC insurance.

And, you know, they're going to, they're going to, they'll keep them out, the PI here and there, whatever. You know, they're going to give him really good treatments, so he's going to get better, and he's going to come back again. He's going to shock a lot of people. And, you know, I mean, that was a pretty profound statement. You just said, Damon, that Bo Nickel is the best prospect out there since John Jones. I truly believe.

In terms of just in the only person saying that. In terms of raw potential. Like, and here's what's crazy about it. When John Jones debuted in the U.S. fought a guy. Do you remember Andre Guzmell? Do you remember that name? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. If Andre Guzmell, and fought in, I said PFL, I feld back in the day. And he was a Capoeira guy. And I remember watching him in IFL and I was like, dude, this guy's got star potential. Like, Andre, he used to those crazy capoeira kicks and he was just fun to watch.

And I get a legit black belt. Yeah, he was a New York guy, Hensow Gracie guy. And I was like, dude, this guy's going to be a legit threat. And when John, I didn't know who John Jones was at the time. I had no idea who he was. He wasn't like a super prominent college wrestler. He wrestled at Iowa Community College, which is a very legitimate community college. But like, I wasn't super familiar with him. So when he debuted, my eyes were on Andre Guzmow. And when he went out there and beat Andre Guzma, I was like, damn, like this guy's for real.

And then obviously John Jones developed into what he developed into. But man, Bo Neckle has so much raw potential. Because his wrestling, dude, I mean, you watch, you're a wrestling guy. Like, his wrestling is so good for MMA. Like, he was a pin guy in college. He would take people down and just mall them on the mats. You know, Daniel Cormier obviously has to be in that same sentence as far as, like, potential coming in. But, like, he had a little different thing because he had already established himself as, like, a real legitimate guy in strike force.

You know what I mean? Like, when he came in the UFC, he was not a prospect. He was already a contender. So when I say the best prospect to come into UFC since John Jones, I'm saying, like, we had our eyes on Daniel Cormier. he was already like a top guy. He debuted against Frank Mier. Like, or Roy Nelson,

or whatever that fight was. Like, he didn't come in debuting against some under, you know, some other young guy. Like he came in fighting a top five guy, top six guy in the world.

That's not what Bo Nichols doing. And that's not what John Jones did either. Like he worked his way in. But yeah, I think he's that good, man. I'm super, super high on Bo Nicol. Yeah,

the only other guy that I had prospected that high was probably Yo Romero. Like, I thought that he would end up being the best ever, man. I mean, he's probably the most athletic guy that's ever been in any sport ever. Maybe I don't know. Like, the dude is just a ridiculous freak of an athlete. And, you know, more, you know, you got to give credit or credit to do.

Like, Robert Whitaker is the one who kind of ended Yoh Romero, right? Like, he was the guy that kind of put a stop to that rain. And then that, you know, again, how impressed are you with Dreykis that what he did this weekend? I mean, I don't think Robert Whitaker was, you know, I don't think he's out of his prime or he's, you know, been through too many wars or, you know, I don't think he showed up out of shape or anything. I mean, I think we've seen a good Robert Whitaker over the weekend. And Drichus put it the fuck on him. Dude, you could, if you would have handed me money and looked at that main card on Saturday and said, put the most money down to who you're most confident on. I was pretty confident in Alessandro Volcanowski.

A lot of people were kind of leaning towards Jaya Rodriguez. He suddenly became kind of like a popular upset pick. But I was pretty confident he was going to win. But I probably would have put all my money on Whitaker. Like it's not a disrespect to Dracus. It's just because Robert Whitaker is really, really freaking good. And the only guy who's made Robert Whitaker Lecum in a middleweight, obviously Yol did early.

Like those fights with Yol were awesome. But Israel is the only guy. No one else has come close. And I was like, I just don't think this is that dude. Like, I just don't. And so I would have put all in, dude, I was blown away. I was shocked by how good Dracus did in that fight.

He took him down in the first round, beat him up a little bit. And then when he hit him with that long straight punch and the second heard him, I was like, oh, my God. Like, this was, that was like a star making performance. Like, that was literally one of those performances that's like, like, I said this privately, and I'll say it publicly to you now, Matt, like, if you would have, if you would have matched up Dracus against Israel four days ago. Before he fought Whitaker, I would have said, oh, this is a blow out.

Israel's just going to just whopped it. Like, he's going to mollywop this guy. Like, it's not going to be close. Now, I'm not saying I'm picking Drakeus to beat Israel out of Sonia because I think Israel out of Sonia is incredible. But I'm at least questioning it now. Like, I would not have questioned it at all a week ago. Like, a week ago, I would have said Israel's winning. Just like, you know, put your money down.

It's over. Now, like, I actually have legitimate questions. Like, now I can actually say, I don't know. Like, Dracus has a shot. dude is it drichus or drakis is it i think it's drakis duplice i think it's how you pronounce it yeah man this guy he just shows up and he just gets it done he's just a fucking get it done guy like i he doesn't look great doing it he doesn't you know he doesn't have technique like some of these guys do but he fucking finds a way man and that is you got to have respect for that man and i'm sure

it is he has a whole new respect for him after what he did with whittaker you know but god damn like where did this guy come from you know like how did he manage to do that because like you said you just watch him like you could study analyze him to death and you're not going to pick him you know i mean like probably the more you watch probably the less you're going to pick him it's true but he comes out and fucking gets it done you got to respect that too and like i said dude like i said if you would have told me a week ago i would have said put every dollar you own on earth on Israel out of Sanya. I can't say that now.

Like I can't. I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm picking Dracus because I don't know that I will because I think Israel out of Sanya is really, really freaking good. And, you know, outside of Alex Pereira, who, you know, we, I think we both kind of agree. Like the first fight we both said, there's just something about this. This is his is going to pull it off. And he did. The second fight, you and I both said, we're picking Israel.

Like we just, there's something about the rematch. And we were right. we're both right we picked Israel the second time listen if you're asking me right now who would I pick I'm probably going to pick Israel I just think Israel out of Sanya is on another level compared to everybody in the middleweight division but I'm not like sold like I wouldn't sit here and say bet everything you have on Israel out of Sanya anymore like you said dracus just finds a way it's amazing man and that's just this sport for you right like there's always that next guy that just fucking has something that you can't even pinpoint you know like we try to analyze and

and make statistics and everything on every little part of this game. And then there's this guy like Dracus, like he's not, you know, you're not going to look at him and be like, you know, he's got the best jab or he's got the best wrestling. He's got the, you know, highest volume or the most power. Like you don't, you don't, that one thing doesn't stick out where you're saying, you know, this is the thing you got to watch. I don't know really how exactly you game playing against him.

You just got to go in there and be better, I guess, which to be fair, that's fucking Izzy's game, man. he goes in and is just fucking better than everybody, man. So, yeah, I'm with you, man. I think, you know, I didn't, I didn't, we, none of us picked him to beat Whitaker. I don't think he was going to pick him to beat Izzy. But I ain't bet my house on it no more. I'm just saying, I'm right there with you.

I'm keeping, I'm not touching that bet. Yeah, I agree. You know, the other guy I mentioned who I said I would have bet the house on. And again, like I said, I'm, I was. right about one I was completely wrong about the other was Alexander Volcanowski. I mean, good Lord, man. This guy is just so freaking talented.

He goes out there and just, I mean, he dominated Yaiyir Rodriguez in a way that no one has done that to Yaiyir since Frankie Edgar did it like seven years ago when Yaiir was still super, super young and basically had no wrestling and Frankie took him down and just mauled him on the ground.

Man, Alexander Volk, like dude, okay, when Alexander Volkinovsky got the fight with Islam back in February. I was just one of those people kind of like, listen, I think Alexander Volcanopsies is incredible, but I was like, Islam's on another level. Now, Islam won, and I don't have any controversy there. I think Islam definitely won the fight. But Alexander showed me a lot in that fight where I was just really shocked and stunned at how well he did. Him coming out and doing that to Yair, I'm not saying like it's suddenly like I'm switching my pick or anything like that, but like,

I know there's a lot of talk right now because Charles Oliva said he's not going to be ready for October. They're going to put Islam on October. That's the Abu Dhabi car. We all know he's going to find that car. Now, obviously, we have Gaichi and Pori coming up in a couple weeks. The winner of that could get in line. But I'm kind of on board with the idea of Volcanowski getting the rematch with Islam. Like, listen, I want to see him fight Ilya Tuporia. The Ilya Teporea is really freaking good. But I'm kind of a little bit on board with Volcanowski getting another shot of Islam, to be honest with you. I wouldn't mind see that rematch. I think Volcanowski fucking earned it.

He came back to, you know, at 45 and he beat the best contender. Yeah, give him another chance. I'm right there with you. He came back. He proved that he can still do it at 45, prove that he's still the best there. Yeah, get him back up there, man. The performance he put on against Islam, I think everybody is pretty much in agreement. Like, he blew everybody out of the water with that performance, even though he lost.

and I don't think it was a controversial loss, he came out and showed that he has everything it takes to hang in there with Islam. And I think he showed he could beat Islam too. I think that's the big thing. He showed that he can beat him. He didn't beat him that night, but he showed that he can do it.

And it's going to be a matter of him being firing on all eight cylinders if they fight in October or whenever they fight again, if they do, you know, it's just going to be a matter of him showing up. and he just can't make any mistakes. You know, Islam is that guy. You can't make mistakes. I think that Charles Olivaire is incredible.

I mean, he's amazing what he did to Beneldaer Euse and everything else he's done. We can't forget. He just got absolutely mauled by Islam, you know, nine months ago, eight months ago, and they fought. You will not find a bigger fan of Dustin Porey and Justin Gachy than me. I love both of them. Like, I've interviewed both guys dozens of times.

Dustin is just a good dude Like he's a good dude And a fucking savage fighter Gachi's the same way man That guy's a fucking savage I love watching those guys fight And I would have zero problem If either of them

Any three of those guys Gets a title shot against Islam in October But if I'm being honest And I say which of those four guys We put Volcanowski in the mix to you But Volcanovsky Olavera Gaci and Porier Who has the best chance to beat Islam Akachev.

Am I wrong thinking that might be Volcanov. And that's not a disrespect to Porié or Gaichi or Olivaire. I'm just saying like stylistically, and yes, I know we've seen it. So we have a better thing to gauge by. We haven't seen Poria or Gaichi fight him yet. But we have seen him fight Hebib. And Islam is like, you know, Khabi light maybe. Like he's not quite Habib, but he's very similar style.

And I'd actually say Islam might actually have better striking than Khabi, honestly. like he actually has pretty decent boxing. He certainly has cleaner striking, whether it's as effective or not, you know, I think it's still to be seen, but I think he is cleaner. But are those four guys? Like if you're saying,

who has the best chance to beat Islamokache, who has the best chance? And that's kind of what these, I mean, in a way, that's what title fights are, right? You want to know the challenger has a chance of beating the champion, right?

Like, you don't want massive lopsided odds in a title fight. You want to know that the contender has a chance to beat the champion. I think Volkanowski's the guy. Like, and that's not a knock on anyone else. I just think Volkanowski's that good. Boy, that's a really good breakdown. And I think, you know, like, that's a pretty good call. Like, you're right.

Like, Volkanowski is that guy, you know. Yeah, because, like you said, when we've seen those guys fight Kabib, for engaging, you know, there's just the takedowns, right? Like, Volkanowski showed better, you know, scrambling ability and better take down defense than anybody else that we're bringing up here. You know, he showed better ability to survive on the ground. I think that's kind of the crux of what you're getting at, right?

Because that's the bane of everybody's existence that goes against Mokachev and Khabib, right? It's like, you know, he takes you down. He fucked you up. Volcanowski has survived better on the ground than any one of those guys. So, yeah, I can kind of agree with you on that. Yeah. that's why I'm like, that's why like originally like when they immediately said let's run it back. I was like, nah, we just saw it.

We don't need to run it back. But seeing what Volcanovsky did on Saturday, the way he took it again, I know Yair's not Islam. I'm not like they're certainly not the same fighter in any stretch of the imagination. But for him to go out there just, I mean, he looks so good in every facet of the game. Like I'm just like, do give it to him. Like I'm just like, you know what? I'm not arguing with it. Like give him the title shot.

You know what I mean? Because listen, I'm all for the winner of Poria and Gaiji getting it, but the problem is, you know those two are going to take, like, we always talk about like taking a piece of your soul when you go in there. I always talk about that with Robbie Lawler and Carlos Condo. When those two dudes fought, I was like, both of them left a piece of their soul in there. Like when they left that octagon, they were not the same dudes. You know that fight on July 29th, unless something weird, like really freakishly weird happens,

neither one of those guys is going to walk out of there, like, boy I can't wait to fight in October like that's you know because that's not that far away they're fighting July 29 then they'd have August and September they'd be fighting there like eight weeks later basically do you think either one of those guys going to be jumping up and down to fight eight nine weeks later after what they're going to do

to each other like you know what I mean this is always the most surprising sport in the world too right like some shit no matter what we predict it always goes different than what we predict so we'll kind of just kind of see how that plays out I think.

But no, I think that's a great point, man. It'll be exciting to see. Yeah, what a great division, man. Like you said, I like see Volkanavsky come up and fight all those guys, to be honest, man.

Because, like, when you talk about him fighting Yair, it wasn't just that he dominated Yairir, but, like, Yer didn't really give him the problems that I kind of expected him to give either.

I didn't see, you know, like the kicks, the wild stuff. Like, I expected that to throw Volk Finovsky off at least a little bit, but it didn't seem to phase him at all. And, you know, he's just so disciplined and so good with everything he does.

It's so well-rounded. So good everywhere. I want to see him fight everybody, man. And, you know, you're talking, you know, those are top two or three pound-for-pound guys in the world right there we're talking about. So, you know, outside of John Jones and I'm not sure who else, like those guys are all right there, man. So, you know, I'd like to just see a one-night tournament. They all get together and fight. You know, we always talk about fight IQ, like high IQ and fighting.

I think, in my opinion, John Jones still stands at the top of that list because he has, in my opinion, the highest fight IQ we've ever seen, like, the way he's able to pick people apart in his fights and beat them at their own games a lot of times. Like, it's been amazing. But if you're right now, like, if I say, like, who is the smartest fighter fighting, you know, the best guys in the world? I think it's Alex, I think that's the compliment I would pay to Alexander Volcanowski. He's just the smartest guy.

Like, he's just so good at breaking down his opponents and beating them. And I would argue, like, John is that dude. Like, John, to me, is, again, the greatest of all time. But John's level of competition kind of tapered off a little bit of light heavyweight. Like, the guys, he'd run through all the top guys. And that's – I know people are going to take offense when I say this. Like, by the time he got to Tiago Santos and Dominic Reyes, like, he was winning. But, like, you could see he was just kind of disinterested.

You know what I mean? Like that wasn't the same level as when he was fighting Shogun and Rampage and Rashad and Kormier and Gustafson and all these killers in a row. By that time, he's just kind of like, eh, you know, I won, but like, you know, whatever. He just didn't seem like he was really that into it. Volcanowski's still fighting the best. Like, Yair was super dangerous. Max Holloway is incredible. You know, all, I mean, come on.

Like, it's just unreal. And for him to go out there and do that to Yair, like, dude, I just, that might be my comment. compliment. Like he's the smartest fighter in MMA right now. Yeah, that's a really good call. About the only one I would compare him with is like D.J. Demetrius Johnson, right? It was down the UFC. So kind of

you know, any time to bring up someone outside the UFC when you talk about the best in the world, there's always, you know, completely different argument and debate that pops up. But, you know, I think we can all put DJ right up there in that same amount of respect for bite IQ. but no one else is popping into my head at least you know i haven't like sat down and thought

about but no one else is popping into my head when we talk about uh fight IQ yeah i should have mentioned i said this when i had alan juban co as the show last week because obviously you were getting everything related with josiah um we were talking real quick about our because we were talking about kabib like where he sits in like the all-time greats list not like the mount rushmore but like the all-time greatest fighters and i said i put him like four or five and i said John Jones, you know, GSP, so on and so forth. And I said, you know, Demetrius Johnson, he sits in that same range for me because he's so good. I said, talent-wise, the three most talented fighters I've ever witnessed in mixed martial arts are John Jones, George St. Pierre and Demetriess Johnson.

Like, talent-wise, like, they're just so freakishly ahead of everybody else in talent. It's scary. Like, you're just like, those are the kind of guys. Like, you're just like, man, screw you. Like, you're just so fucking good. Like, you know, like, you're just, it's unfair. Like that's like when I think of me you're right Demetriess absolutely deserves me

be in that conversation. I just always put like for me it's John Jones and Demetre is the two most talented guys. That's how I always describe them. Like the two most talented guys in this sport are John Jones and Demetri's Johnson. That's I guess I get lost in talent versus smarts. But yeah, Demetrius absolutely deserves

to be in that conversation. He is one of the most talented and smartest fighters in the sport still today. I think it's hard also to dismiss Henry Sehudo when we talk about the smartest. You know, like that dude has a fight IQ out of this world, man. Like, he, he's always really impressed me with the way he fights people, his strategies. And, you know, when you go and lose any time, like, everybody starts forgetting about you

and thinking that you're nobody and you're a piece of shit and you shouldn't have never been champion, you know, whatever it was. But I think we'd be remiss to not add him in that conversation. Yeah, he's super good, man. He's super good. Real quick before we get out of him about him. mention, no, he is. He's really good.

He absolutely is. He's super good. He is. No, yes, he is really good. I mean, listen, dude, like, you know, you don't get to that level being an Olympic gold medalist and then come in and do what he did in MMA without being super smart and super talented at the same time. Like, Henry Suhudo is that dude.

I just, what breaks my heart about Henry Sehudo, honestly, is we're talking about Henry Sehudo. What breaks my heart about him is he took that three-year layoff. Like, I think that's just like, I'm not saying it made him worse. And I mean, obviously, he had a super competitive five with Alchman and Sterling, but it breaks my heart because you wonder how good that. guy could have like that run he was on how good he could have been had he stuck around it kind of breaks my heart he took that three years that's a man when you're talking about smart

fires he's got my brain rolling now man and i think that's a guy not to dismiss either is al jermaine sterling like his fight IQ is way higher than people giving credit for like i've never picked him to win a fight i don't think and he comes out and like he again another guy that finds away and he does it intelligently too like he he comes out and fights guys a specific way and it's pretty fucking smart the way he does it yeah I think that's a name you got to put up there too yeah you're not wrong like Al Jermaine

yeah Al Jain's the guy people a lot of people pick it for the first it's kind of scary for the first time people are like really picking him to win I'm kind of scared now because like a lot of people are picking him to be shot him Malley and now I'm like uh oh like what's going to go on here because no one picked him like everyone lost everyone picked him to lose to all right listen I be the first to admit, I picked him to lose De Yon. And, boy, I could not have been more wrong than I was in that rematch.

Because after the knee, after the illegal knee, which was totally Yon's fault, I was like, man, that fight was just not going well for Al Jermaine. I'm picking Yon to win the rematch. And boy, did Al Jameen prove me wrong. And boy, yeah, he looked incredible. I did pick him to beat T. I did pick him to be DJ Dillishal. And I think I ultimately did pick him to beat Suhudo, but I was up in the air on that one.

That was one where I was like, man, I don't know. I was like, I leaned towards Al Jemaine, but Henry Sudo is so good. But this time, like, it seems like the world's picking him to be Sean O'Malley. And, like, on paper, he should be Sean O'Malley. To me, this is like, this to me, when I say easy, I don't mean easy. I'm just saying, like, of all the guys he's fought recently, O'Malley to me is the lowest threat, if that makes sense. Like, prime T.J., prime Sehudo, prime yon, I would put O'Malley below that. But now I'm kind of scared because I think Al Jermaine, like I'm 100% confident Al Jermaine winning.

Now here's where the fuckery happens. That's the sport. Exactly. Exactly. And I think a lot of that fight's going to come down to intelligence, right? We're going to see if he lives up to the hype that I'm hyping him up to be is one of the most intelligent fighters because that's what this fight's going to come down to. And, you know, don't dismiss Sean O'Malley's intelligence either.

He's done everything right on his way up here. and, you know, he's got a good head on his shoulders, too, for this fight game, man. So I think that's certainly going to be an interesting match. But I'm exactly the same, you know, I'm just dismissed Al Jermaine so many times. The only thing I would disagree is, like, that wasn't a prime T.J that he was fighting. No, no, no, I said, I said, I said, if he had fought a prime T. Like, you know, yeah, he didn't fight a prime. Yeah, he didn't fight a prime T.

But that's on T.J. That's not Al Jermaine's fault. Like that's on Tj. TJ's the Tj's on Tj for fighting when he should have been fighting. Yeah, yeah. And Al Jemaine did what he was supposed to do to a guy hurt like that, right? Like he did all the right things. But even, you know, T.J.

Even with his bad shoulders and shit, but like, I mean, he's not an easy matchup still for anyone. So, you know, again, don't dismiss what Al Jermaine did. Yeah. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those.

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Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.ca. Absolutely, absolutely. Real quick before we get out of here, I mentioned earlier, we're talking about John Jones over the weekend. We got the announcement. John Jones and Steve Miochich finally going to fight in November, November 11th, Madison Square Garden, UFC 2-95. I know we've talked about this before, but now that it's finally official.

Obviously, I know you've been around Stepe a lot more because you've trained with him and around that team before in Cleveland, and he's been around here before. We're the Ohio guys, so obviously people are immediately going to be like we're a little biased towards Stepe. Thoughts on that one, now that it's finally happening, finally getting to see John Jones and Steve Miochich. Yeah, man, I hope that they're just at their best. You know, that's what I want to see is just both those guys at their absolute best.

I hope steep A is in it for all the right reasons and is going out there to win, is committed to victory and that we get to see the best steep A, because I think he is going to have to bring out the best steep A we've ever seen to win this fight. I mean, I think that's pretty unquestionable. And I hope that whether John wins or loses, I hope he keeps fighting, man. I want to see a few more out of them. but I'll tell you what man you know

John's a tough matchup right for anyone you know so it's going to be interesting to watch but I just hope we see the best steep man so whether he wins or loses I hope he goes out there and gives it all and shows up you know with everything that he has and

leaves it all in there I think I think Steve A is absolutely I mean he's a much much tougher fight than surreal gone I mean, that goes out saying. Surreal's kind of a one-dimensional guy with his striking, and we know now he has zero grappling. I mean, he proved that in the Ngano fight, and then he proved to even more when he got caught in the guillotine with John Jones.

Steve A is a good wrestler, great boxer, incredible power. How much different will he be after three years away? That's a question. We can't not ask that question. He has a falseness 20-21, and by the end of the year, or 2020, I think, whatever it was. 2020, I think it was. It's been three years.

Like, he's going to be a tougher fight for John Jones and Cyril Gond. There's no doubt about that. But John Jones is still John Jones. And, like, that's just like, it's a hard. Like, Steve, to me, is still a harder matchup, but does that mean he's going to win? I don't know, man. Steve, you know, like I said, you know, being away that long, heavy weights age differently than other weight. Like, we know that, like, you know, heavy weights traditionally are better at older ages.

Like, that's pretty typical heavy weights. like a lot of great heavyweights are 38, 39, things like that, and Steve A's 40 now. And John Jones is, I think, 36, so it's not like he's a young guy. But yeah, dude, I just, like I said, man, like, I just, I don't pick against John Jones. I just don't. Like, I just never pick against that guy.

Like, it's not a knock on Steve Bay. I just, I don't pick against John Jones. I never pick against that guy. Well, imagine John Jones would be the betting favorite coming into this fight. So it's going to be, you know, Steve A, definitely has an uphill, battle here. And, but I think we are going to find out, again, this is why I kind of why I wish that John Jones would, would keep fighting, whether wins or loses this fight, but we're going to find out, you know, how John Jones really is a heavyweight. I don't think gone really told us everything.

Like, I don't think it took, you know, world-class heavyweight to do that to Surreal Gone. You know, as good as he is, you know, I think just a great wrestler, grappler probably could have done to Surreal gone, you know, even if the guy didn't have any striking or wasn't a world-class athlete, you know? So I think we're going to see a lot about John Jones as a heavyweight when he fights Stepe. And that may be a shocker. We may be in first surprise that John Jones isn't as good at heavyweight as we thought he was, you know, but again, even if it was a, even if John came in at 205 and Stepe came in at 260, like, he'd still better be a, firing on all eight cylinders stepe a you know i'm saying because that's john jones you're dealing with so

i think it's gonna you know that i think it's gonna be a pretty fucking interesting match but i'm with you man you don't bet against john jones you just don't you can yeah i mean i am interested to see like you know again he didn't have to deal with it was gone because the fight was over in two minutes but like i want to see how john eats a punch at heavyway because john's always had an incredible chin he doesn't get hit but you know steep his power's different like steepness is probably one of the most powerful guys that heavyweight. Like, obviously, in Ghana, who's, you know, number one, but Steve A's not that far.

Stevie's got a lot of one-punch of knockouts. Like, I'd like to see how John does dealing with that kind of power. He's not going to be able to just mall Steepie on the ground. Like, Stevey's got really, really good wrestling. So, yeah, like, there's a lot of questions we're going to, like, I don't, what I, the questions we got answered in the Gone fight was, is John Jones, like, did he lose this step in the, in the three years off? and, you know, is he just not built for heavy?

Now, I don't think we, I agree with you. We don't think we answered all the questions about him at heavyweight because he really didn't get tested. He just kind of took gone down and choked him out. Like it wasn't, there wasn't a lot of contests there. This is the fight we're going to see. And, you know, again, there's questions. There's legitimate question about Steepay, too.

You know, Steve has been out for three years. He's over 40 now. Like, is he still the number one guy? Or are we living on past fame? Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's a real, there's a realistic question there with Steepay. But yeah, like I'm with you. Like there's questions we don't have answered about John Jones at heavyweight.

And this is the one that's going to answer him in my opinion. Because, you know, Steve-Bey is, like I said, even at worst, Steve-Bey's always been very, very good. And he's very well-rounded. Like, he's got a legitimate ground game. He's got really good wrestling. Nasty ground-im. Remember what he did to Alistair Over-eem? You know, not huge knockout power.

One-punch knockout power. One-punched knockout power. One-punched knockout. He was stepping backwards and little flick shot. And Verdun went face first on the camera. of us and i think that's kind of what the downside of this fight is is either guy even going to fight again after this you know like we're going to answer all these questions and then you know maybe they rematch if it's close or something i don't know but yeah this might be the last time

we see either one of these guys and we're going to get all these questions answered and then may not ever see him fight again that's the downside of this i agree like because like this is a great fight. I'm glad it's happening. I'm glad it's finally happening because this is like one of those like the only one I wish we would have seen besides this and this is going back years. Obviously, I'm not saying like this is a disrespect to Steve. Like I wish like seven years ago, eight years ago we could have seen John Jones versus Kane Velasquez. You know, like that's, that was one of my dream fights. But you know, Kane couldn't stay healthy to save his life and obviously he's done. He retired. And that's, I'm fine with that. But like I wish we had seen at that point.

But outside of that, this is the other one. Like Steve is legit. Like anyone who thinks like Steve is just going to roll over is this crazy. Like he's not going to just roll over and play dead for John Jones. But yeah, you're right. Like that's the downside is you're absolutely right. I thought about that as soon as I got announced. I was like, this could be a double retirement fight. Like they could both go out there whoever wins and just be like, all right.

I just like if Steve and also in reality, Matt, like let's be honest. Like if Steve A beats John Jones, how does it ever get any better than that? Like, you know what I mean? Like what do you? I mean, I don't mean this. like, Sergei Papavish is a fricking monster. You've been on that, you've been on that train for a while now, like, you know,

banging the drum for that dude, but like, you beat John Jones, are you really going to be like, man, I can't wait to come back and fight a freaking savage and Sergey Pavovich? No, you're going to hang up the gloves, put the title down and say, I just went out on John Jones. And if you're John Jones, you beat Stephen Miotich, the, you know, pretty consensus

at worst, the greatest UFC heavyweight of all time. You know, I don't think it's a far cry to say this is a, this could easily be a double retirement fights. I hope it's not. I hope it's not, but like I can see it happening. That's exactly it.

That's what I'm saying, man. We're going to get all the questions to answer. You know, who it's kind of, you know, who's the greatest heavy of all time maybe. I mean, I guess John probably doesn't really have a call for the greatest heavy of all time, but he'll be the greatest UFC fighter of all the time. He goes out and beats steep, you know, heavy weight and all the way to, you know, feather weight of whatever. He's the greatest ever if he goes out and beat Stepe.

Probably is even if he doesn't beat him. I don't know. I guess that's its own debate. But, you know, if Stepe goes out and wins, he's the greatest heavy weight of all time without question, right? Like, I don't think you can, I don't think there's much of an argument if he goes out and wins this fight. Yeah, it's a weird one. Like, the stakes are so high and you kind of don't want to think about like the winner or the winner and the loser both walking away, but it is kind of a weird scenario where it could absolutely happen. Like, you know, and John, I know they both, I mean, John said it openly. Steve-Bey hasn't said it, but John said it.

But if I'm Stebe, I mean, again, you beat John Jones, how are you going to get you better than that? Like, how are, you know, like, I just, I don't see Steve being like, oh, I got to, I'm the first person to ever beat John Jones. Okay, great. I'm going to come back and fight Tai Taito Ivasa. Like, no, I just, come on. He's just not like, that's not what Steve-be does at this point.

And John. So what did they make for, okay. both those guys retire after this fight. What do they make for heavyweight champion? Sergei, I mean, Charlton Almeida. Yeah, really? Okay. That dude's a monster, man.

Jelton Almeida. He's a fucking monster, but yeah, I mean, I mean, I think it's the guy because you get two young guys. I mean, Sergey, I'm not saying Sergey is like 25, but like he's younger and Jalton's younger. You finally inject a little youth in there. I think so because Jelton's winning, Sergey's winning. Jelton's fighting Curtis Blades later this year.

I think in September, October, somewhere on there, maybe November. I can't remember when to decide. He's fighting later. He wins that fight. That's certainly, yeah. Yeah. And that's the one. And Pavlovich has earned it.

So Pavlovich versus Jelton. And again, there's no guarantee he gets past Curtis Blades. But if he beats Curtis, then I think it's Jelton and Sergey for the vacant title. And I think it very well could happen, man. Like being honest, like, I don't, I hope John, like, Steve is done enough and Steve is 40. Like, if Steve A walked away, I wouldn't be shocked because Steve is of that, like, he's in that, he's in that realm now where we're like, he only has so many fights left. You and I both agree, though, John can keep going. Like, John, we hope, keeps going because I do want to see him fight Sergei.

I do want to see him fight Jalton Alameda. And also, I think, Steve A big doesn't, doesn't appear. from the outside. I haven't even talked to him in years, but he doesn't appear from the outside looking in that he has the desire to keep fighting a lot, right? Either, right? Like, he doesn't, it doesn't appear that he has, you know, that thirst in his blood to go out there and be fighting for world championships all the time. Like, he wants to fight John Jones because it's, you know, it's John Jones, right? So that's, you know, the fight to do. And then I think it's hard to imagine him never fighting again. John,

you could see him still fighting after. He keeps saying that he's not going to, I think, right? Like, didn't you say that he's quoted to be saying, like, you know, he's not going to fight again after this? Yeah. Yeah, he said that. He said that after the last one. He's like,

you know, Steve and then probably I'm done, but I don't know that I buy that. I just, I think we had this conversation before on the show. Like, if he beats Steve, he's now beat the greatest UFC heavyweight of all time and he's two defenses away from tying the all-time record and becoming like the I mean yeah come on like I just I know John's all about greatness and I feel

like if he could if he beats Steve A convincingly like he goes out there beats Steve A pretty convincingly I can listen I'm not I like would you pick against John against anybody like I mean you know I think Jalton I made is incredible I think Sergey Pavlovich is incredible I think they're both very tough contest but would you just pick against John Jones I wouldn't I just said that I don't pick against John Jones. So yeah, like, he could absolutely do it. And he could have a couple more fights than he's the winningest heavyweight of all time. And he retires off that.

Like, I don't, I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility. Yeah. So that's the fear of this fight. But, you know, that's going to make it all the bigger of the fight, man. So, you know, you know what me? Man, I'm a high boy. I'm going to be out there cheering for Stepe. So, you know, hopefully I'm going to get a couple of my heavyweights up there to

spar with them and help them out. And we'll be right in his corner. man love it dude it's uh it's one of those fights where it's like i love it it's an all-time great fight but it also kind of breaks my heart a little bit because i'm kind of like i talk about matchmaking you and jim miller like i'm like i want to see it i love that fight but also kind of breaks my heart to one of you somebody's got to lose like you know what i mean like it's kind of you know because like you know john's dude john's john's incredible he's an incredible fighter and yes stepe's the ohio guy of course and stea i'm always gonna be a stepe guy so yeah it's

kind of like that like do you just hate to see somebody lose like you know like just you don't root for anyone to lose but like you know you don't want to see that happen like i don't i love jim miller you're you're my guy you go in and knock out jim miller i of course gonna be very very happy for you still be a little bum for jim though like i'm allowed to be a little bum for jim getting knocked out by matt brown like that's okay yeah i mean i'd be bummed for jim miller too but you know And that's the object of the sport, too. So, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly how I would feel.

I'd be like, yeah, I'm super happy for you. But yeah, I'd be a little bummed that Jim got knocked out. Like, I'd be a little bummed about that. Yeah, that's the nature of the beast. Yeah. You know, I'll be bummed when I knock him out. Yeah, see, there you go. You'll see 3-Hen.

You're going to be sharing the car with Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. It's going to be awesome. It's so long to wait 300. Like, he's going to be so long, man. I know. I know. I'm kind of it's back in there. and to be honest

it'd be like if this fucking dork fight happens I don't even know if I'd want to fight on it like you kind of do want to just because like you know more eyeballs are going to be on that than anything else ever but I'm like dude

do I have to like see these motherfuckers like see all the media around them and fucking like you know do weigh-ins with them and you know what I mean like do I have to do this like if we just like put these like keep them off to the side like the whole promo is going to be for them and I'm like you know overshadowing all the real fighters it's like do I really want to do that well yeah do because you know they do well Dana said over the Dana said over the weekend that he has an idea in mind for that fight like where he wants it but it wouldn't be UFC 300 he said he wouldn't do it at that event so uh so yeah he ended up on UFC 300 Dana like come on man you know next time i see dana i might see him here in a few weeks i'm going to talk to him

dude i need ufc 300 i missed 100 and 200 like you shorted me out on both of them come on give me 300 bro yeah we just had the we just had the anniversary i was like you know you get like facebook reminders like anniversaries all my photos i posted from ufc 200 like back in 2016 popped up today because it's the it's the seven seven year anniversary of that card so like Dude, UFC 300 early next year. I already match, I already said it's match made. Like, you got you and Jim Miller fighting opening the main card on pay-per-view. I think that's the perfect fight.

What better way to celebrate you? We just, dude, we just had an incredible moment with Robbie Laude. I'm not saying either you guys are going to retire, but I'm saying, like, that's the kind of moment we want to kick off that historic card. It's like you and Jim Miller throwing down or whoever, but I'm pushing for Jim Miller. But, dude, you couldn't imagine a better fight for UFC 300. Yeah, I'll tell you, if they're able to make it happen, I'm most likely I'd retire on that fight really yeah I mean it's a long ways off so it's hard to call it now

see how my body feels in everything but um this I'd say it's pretty likely like my body doesn't feel the way it used to like I don't wake up the same as I used to like you know getting moving's a lot slower than it used to be uh you know my kids going into seventh grade like they got so many sports all the time now. Well, my boy's going to seventh. My daughter's going third. There's so many sports all the time. Like, I miss so much shit all the time. You know, my business is doing well. Airbnb's are doing well. Real estate's doing well. Yeah, it's just hard to, it's hard to say I got a whole other year left in me. Yeah. So you think if they book you on US, they book you on US? I'm not saying Jim Miller,

just like UFC 300. They booked you on that card. That could be the last one? I would say so. Yeah, you know, I think that'd be. a dream send-off man like you know Jim Miller's the fucking you know to me is a legend among legends and uh UFC 300 like I said I missed 100 and 200 I don't know why you know I don't know why they shorter me on those you know if I did something wrong or time and whatever um you know so to get on 300 would be fucking amazing man you know yeah yeah well it's cool too because like you know I mean that's a historic card and you know listen everyone knows you know you're the the then the hourglass runs out forever at some point.

You know what I mean? I mean, you just come off an incredible huge knockout of a court McGee. But you said, like, you know, everyone's got to have a time. Like, right, right? Like, and you mentioned, like, I know, like, with your kids and everything, like, there's got to come a time. And, like, I just mentioned earlier. Like, dude, you could not have written a better ending for Robbie Lawler's career.

Like, that's why I'm like, I hope he doesn't come back because you couldn't imagine a better ending than the one they gave him on Saturday. I mean, he gave himself that with the knockout. But then, like, the tribute video and everything, it was just a really cool woman seeing him go out that way like imagine going out there securing the all-time knockout record in ufc history with a big knockout at ufc 300 and that's it like i mean again you know doesn't necessarily mean it's the end but that that's pretty storybook like that's one of those things you can't rewrite right like that's that's history that would be fucking amazing so yeah that's what i'm

going to shoot for right now there you go so i'm gonna change it later i've been saying this is going to be my last fight for the last 20 fights. I was just going to say, some breaking news, Matt Brown contemplates in retirement of UFC 302 seconds later. He's like, oh, maybe not. I don't know. Yeah, you know, what always happens, man, is like, as soon as you get into camp, you're feeling fucking good, you know, you get into a groove, you go out there and fight.

You know, see, I'm, I guess I'm a little different, man. Like, whether I win or lose, like, I want to go back in there right then, man. Like, I said after my last fight, dude. the worst part about this thing is stepping out of that cage, bro. Like, that's the worst time of a fighter's life, in my opinion. You know, like, I just almost want to shed a tear every time I have to step out of there, man. Like, I'm like, why? Why do I, like, if we just go again, like, you know, I'll give a second chance.

Like, whatever, let's go. Or give me a second chance, you know, whatever happens. But it's like, you know, you know, you're not going to be back in there for a long. time, you know, even back in the day, it'd be like, you know, three or four months, whatever. It's like, fuck, I got to go, you know, back in the gym. I just want to be in here. Like, is what we do it for. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, like I said, man, you can't, you know, I mean, listen, if you can write a perfect ending, and I know what we said earlier, there's rarely a perfect ending in the sport, but it would be cool. Fight on UFC 300, iconic, historic card. And, you know, I mean, like I said, you know, that might be the perfect

time to, to, you know, say that's enough right there. And then, you know, like I said, like anything else, you always leave a door open, but that would be kind of a cool way to go out, right? Like, that would be, like, secure the knockout record and walk away at UFC 300. That would be kind of cool. It would be kind of poetic in a way.

Yeah, what I might even ask for is to be like, you know, the final fight of the prelims, which is kind of a strange thing to ask for because, you know, who wants to be able to prelimbs? But the nice thing is, like, I'd be able to spend a little bit of extra time in the octagon. you know maybe even it was just like one minute you know because if you're the first fight like like you know they got a fight coming they're gonna rush you out of there like i want you just

standing there and just soak that shit in a little bit man embrace it you know try to just burn that damage in my mind because uh like i said walking out of there that's the worst fucking part man yeah yeah yeah that's cool yeah like i said man i mean i i said it before and i mentioned it was robbie and i said it with jim as well like i like it when fighters go into a fight knowing that's probably going to be the last one because we get to celebrate a little bit more. And like I said, you're not dealing. You know how it is. The emotion of after a fight, you know, I mean, you know far better than I do.

But like the emotion in there, you know what I mean? Like, again, I think a lot of people retire off emotion more than, you know, really wanting to retire because, you know, you lose. A lot of times it happens after a loss. But like, they lose, they're emotional. They're like, I'm done. You know what I mean? Like I just, I like it when they go, if you go in knowing it's the last one, leave everything in there, you know, go out. go out there, show out one last time and be done.

But like I said, everyone's got their own career path. But, you know, outside of the UFC coming back to Columbus and letting you headline another card here, I can't imagine it would be a better way to go out than headlining, you know, going into UFC 300, a big card like that. You know, it's going to be freaking two title fights, three title fights, massive card, you know, that would be kind of a cool way to go. And, you know, you're going to go out in front of a massive crowd,

huge audience. I know you love fighting in front of people, like that kind of thing, you know. yeah that's exactly right and uh maybe that's why i've kind of fight hard a lot of times is like when uh i think somewhere towards the end of camp just about every time i'm like dude i'm not fucking doing this shit again this is my last one you know i mean i've already felt that feeling so many times i don't even know how special that feeling would be if i did that because i'd be like oh i just feel the same way i felt a hundred times before you know i mean we trained so hard man like you know there's usually a time right around about

five or six to about two to three weeks out when you're just pushing so hard and you're putting in so much volume you're like dude i can't fucking keep doing this shit but then about two weeks out or so you know you kind of start tapering down right then you start you know feeling all those gains start kicking in and you start feeling good again you know you're tapering your training down um yeah and then you're like dude i want to do this every time like i feel fucking great you know I want to do this every week. Yeah, that's what, that's funny. That's what, that's what Robbie said.

He's like, he felt like he felt crappy throughout training camp. And then on Saturday he felt amazing. And then he goes out there gets a 38 second knockout. Like, that's the, that's the sport, right? Like you feel like crap, feel like crap. And then you feel amazing. And then you go out and do a 38 second knockout. So, yeah, I get it, man.

Like I said, I don't understand. I don't fully understand that there's running one rush, but I do understand the way. So I, like, when people don't want to retire, like, I get it, dude. I understand it. Like, I understand the passion. and like I may not be a fighter, but I do understand the competitive nature of it all and the adrenaline rush that goes into it

just the feeling a little bit. And that's just from the outside looking in, I get it. You know what I mean? I can only imagine if you're a fighter how much you get it, you know, so. Well, it's kind of funny people talk about the adrenaline rush. And to me, it's not really about the adrenaline rush at all.

It's just a, like, it's a full expression of yourself. Like, this is what you've worked for. Like, you're in such a flow state, you know? Like, that's the most beautiful thing in lack. right and that's what people you know whatever your job is like like you do the podcast or your writing i'm sure like you know you start feeling that flow state you know i do not fucking love what i do you know the time doesn't exist anymore that's what we all strive for in life and and and i think just fighting in general is uh you know whatever combat sport is probably the um one of the highest

expressions of that uh humanly possible you say the you say the you say the flow say the way when I mean when I say adrenaline rush like the euphoria of it I guess is the word I use like there's like a like there's just like a high to it right like is that kind of that's that's that's what I mean by adrenaline rush but like just the the euphoria of loving what you do it's never culminated better than in that moment when you're in the cage right like that's that's that's much better way to put it I think it's a far far better way to put it because the adrenaline like we can get adrenaline by riding a fucking roller coaster you know yeah whatever you know because that that's not said like what we strive for i don't think um it's just when you get when you get in there and

like you're flowing the way that you want to flow and uh you're just fully expressing your body the way that you have trained it to be expressed for so many years and everything comes out the way you wanted to um you know it's like cocaine man you're just like dude i want another fucking hit of that yeah dude well like i said uh yeah Sean Shelby i know Sean Shelby is a big listener of our podcast. Sean Shelby, if you're listening, Matt Brown, USC 300 could be the retirement fight. Maybe you really want to book them on that card.

I'm just saying it might be a good way to build up UFC 300. You kind of start early, right? Get a book now and put Matt Brown on that card. I'm going to call Sean and make sure he's listening. See, there you go. I'm next to him this podcast. I love it.

Listen, Sean Shelby. All right. That's our show for this week. Matt, what else you got going on? Where can people check you out, all the things you are always up to and busy and doing? you know what i should start plugging my Airbnb so you should you know if anybody ever wants to go to gattenberg pigeon forge area smoking mountains you know i got a beautiful cabin there you

could give me a call text uh email or whatever on twitter instagram at i am the immortal on facebook uh i am i don't know uh the immortal my brown i got to remember what the fuck it is um Or if you want to go to Texas Gulf Coast, Crystal Beach, man, just build a brand new home there, ready to fucking rock and roll. Those are my two main ones. So you guys want to roll in one of those. Let's fucking go, man. And we're going to be stalking them with the immortal coffee at the immortal coffee or the immortal coffee. com and check it out.

So not only do you get like a great view, you get to go to the beach, you get to hang out in one of my beautiful homes. You get to drink the immortal coffee the whole time. So you're going to have the no. crash coffee from beginning to end. Like, tell me a better day, bro. It's a win-win right there. You can't drink coffee. Yeah.

It's still a win-win. It's still a win-win for most people. The coffee drink is love it. Yeah. But if you're not a coffee drinker, you'll at least get to smell of great coffee. And you still be in a beautiful place. You still can't lose.

That's true. That's very true. You're chill in the hot tub or get to Texas, you know, go out on the beach. Like, come on, right. You can't beat it. I love it. I love it. All right, folks, that's our show.

We appreciate it when the tunes in each and every week. To The Fighter versus the Rider, make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. From Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in.

We'll see you then.