MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: UFC 310 Picks and Predictions, Matt Brown Explains Why Fighters Don’t Like Being Put on Prelims,

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

On the latest episode of Fighter vs. Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin break down the key fights at UFC 310 and Brown details why Asakura might face struggles in his octagon debut plus we discuss former champions Aljamain Sterling and Chris Weidman being on the prelims and Brown details why that upsets some fighters so much Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca.com slash Black Friday. IKEA, bring home to life. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, it is officially Fight Week for the UFC for the final UFC pay-per-view of 2024. UFC 310 going down to a couple days out in Vegas.

Alessandro Pantosia and Kaias Akir in the main event. Shabkat, Reckmanoff, and Gary, Ian Machado Gary, the co-main event. And actually a really stacked undercard. This is actually a really good card that isn't even really about the main card. Yeah, yeah, especially Shavcott and Ian Gary, dude That's a fucking fight right there, man I'm excited for that

Do you remember UFC 178? I know you don't remember the name But when I tell you about the card You'll remember that was the one And I had a I mean, listen, you know I have a tremendous amount of respect for Demetrius Johnson But he was headlining that card against

Chris Carrioso But the undercard was ridiculous Because they had like Cowboy Soroni and Eddie Alvarez Connor fought Dustin it was like, I mean, it was like a ridiculously stout. I pulled it up earlier here. It was, Yol Romero and Tim Kennedy, Kazingano and Amanda Nunes, Dominic Cruz was on the prelims,

Jorge Maz was on the prelims, Stephen Thompson was on the prelims. It was like a ridiculously stacked card. It just didn't have like the biggest main event. It was a weird one. I remember that because like everyone knew Demetrius was going to kill that guy, and he did. He killed Chris Carrihasa. No one was really anticipating that being like a barn burner.

and in a weird way But not everybody But this main event Even though it's Not the biggest names Especially as Secura Like most people probably don't even know who he is This is the first fight in the UFC

But boy this could be a fucking Bar and Burner bro As Secura is the real deal He hits like a truck He has knockouts over Kioj Horaguchi Manel Cobb I mean you don't beat that level of guy

Without being good Here's my question Matt Like I know You came in the UFC a little different Because you went through the ultimate fighter and then you fought on the finale and things like that. But like, I know and you know, for some guys, the UFC jitters are real, right? Like, it's a real thing.

Guys just, like, kind of, you know, freeze under the spotlight. How much could that potentially affect Kai Asakura in his first fight in a freaking title fight main event? I mean, he's not just debuting. He's getting a shot at the flyweight title on day one. Yeah. My opinion and thoughts on that is that the fight itself isn't so much what's going to affect him, like the UFC jitters and all that. I mean, I don't know what it's like over in Japan,

how he was fighting before, what it was like, you know. But I get the feeling that's probably not going to affect him, right? Once the bell rings, it's kind of, it's just a fight, right? It's, you kind of feel natural. But what could affect it, I think, more so is the lead-up, the fight week. It's so much more intense in the UFC, particularly as a main event than anything he's ever experienced before, the attention that's going to be brought on him, the amount of media obligations that he's going to have,

you know, while trying to cut weight, which I don't know how much he cuts. I don't know that much about him. He looks like a big guy, though, so I'm guessing that he's probably cutting some decent amount, excuse me, some decent pounds. I think all that could have a larger effect than the actual fight itself, which will affect the fight itself, of course, too. but the, you know, he's fought some high-level guys, and I think he's a well-prepared fighter. So I think once the bell rings, it's going to be pretty normal.

But, you know, how much does that affect his weight cut? How much does that affect his mindset? How much has he distracted? How, you know, how much does that affect his ego, right? Just getting all the attention. And potentially with all the people watching, you know, the extra pressure, I think some people thrive under it, some people break under it. Yeah, it's also interesting, and I know this is a weird point to bring up, Matt,

but I think it is valid in a certain extent. He doesn't speak English. So, like, he's going to have, like, everything going through translators. I don't know if that makes it easier or harder that, like, he's not going to have to really, like, you know, he's not going to be really, I know this sounds terrible. He's not really got to hear with the crowd yelling at him. You know what I mean? Like, that's little things like that, like, in the actual fight.

Well, they won't be chanting USA because Pantheosia is not American. Yeah, see? Well, although you never know with the crowd sometimes. You never know. As long as I don't hear the wooes, I'm happy. Yeah. But I agree, like, because every fighter you talk to, like, I remember talking to Kayla Harrison, Michael Chandler, like they were, you know, Kayla Harrison was the face of

PFL, Michael Chandler was the face of Bellator. Both of them said when you come to the UFC, it's a different animal. The amount of attention, the amount of press, the amount of obligations. It's just a whole, whole other animal than doing it in any other organization. and I like Risen. I think Risen's fun, but Risen is, I know people are going to piss off and say this. Ryzen is essentially a regional show compared to the U.S.C. When you talk about the amount of like work you're doing that.

High-level regional show, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm not knocking it. Risen is a great show. But you know the crowd in Japan. Like they're not, you know, when you go to the ground, they're not being like, you suck it out the fucking ground. You know, that's a great point.

That could actually have an effect. He's not used to have an allowed, obnoxious crowd, like an American crowd. I didn't even think about that. That's certainly a factor to take in. Yeah, it's going to be an interesting one, man. But, I mean, I hope it doesn't affect him too much because, you know, this is just a great fight. You know, even though Assecura hasn't really, like, built his way up in the UFC or anything. I think it's a really great fight.

And it's surprising that he got a – title shot straight off the rip in a main event but man i mean he's definitely that good i think but pantosia's just uh been a fucking train bro he's just been rolling through people and he's just been looking great so it's definitely a tough first outing for i secura yeah i agree so i was early but a couple weeks ago i talked to um i talked to uh brandon roy val who he was hoping to get the winner this fight he came all that big one over touch of the tire and i asked him about the fight now he he openly said, like he openly will root for Asakura because he has two fights

with Pantosha, so he knows getting a third one would be more difficult than if Asakura wins, pretty much guaranteed if they'll get the next title shot. So he, of course, he's openly rooting for that, but he said, I want to read you what he said and see how you take this, because I thought was really good insight. He said, I've hit

Pantosia with, clean, with like four knees to the face, and that motherfucker ate and just kept coming straight Terminator style. I never even thought about hitting him in the body. I think there's a couple of cool things that Asakura presents, and I think a body shot might be one way to finish Pantosia. I also just think that fight's going to be one side of one way or the other. If Pantosia gets him to the ground, I think it's going to be a nightmare.

I don't think Kai Asakura has ever felt what Pantosia will bring and the skills that he brings and vice versa. If this fight stays standing, Pantosia's in deep shit. So I kind of agree with him because, you know, Ocicora is an incredible striker, a nasty, nasty knockout striker and Potosia is one of the highest level grapplers in the sport now I don't think Pantosia has terrible stand-up but you know it's just like saying

Sean Strickland has a good stand-up but it didn't work out too well against Alex Pereira like there's you know there's different levels of striking so yeah like I think that's a pretty spot on breakdown if you ask me yeah it's a good assessment and the the other part is has Ossicare ever fought in a cage before I don't think so it's a good question I think the ring is where he's fought before yeah you're right about that anything about that yeah especially going up against a grappler that could be a huge game changer um and i don't think that pantosia could

take i secure shots though the way that he took roi vall shots and like i trained with roi vall back in the day at factory x and you know he's not a power guy like he's very slick striker like he definitely hit me and but he's not a power guy you know this is not his game he's not a one punch now O'Sikira's got some real power. And I don't expect Pantosia to be able to take the shots the way he did from Roy Vahl. But he's got to be able to get those shots off. And again, I think that cage is going to be a, you know, you got to think that he's training in the cage,

but it's different when you get in there, you know, especially with a high-level grappler like that. And you kind of always favor, I say not always, but most of the time, like you're favor in the grappler in a grappler versus striker matchup. It's funny. I don't know. Did you see the Anatoli Malikin rug-rug fight from a couple weeks ago in one championship? I assume you probably didn't because I don't know.

I did not, no. They fought in a ring. And it was really weird because Malikin kept going for takedowns. And every time he'd get deep on a takedown, his arm would get stuck in a rope or his arm would go through the rope. And Herb Dean had to keep warning him and warning him to, like, pull your hands through. Don't put your hands through the ropes. And it was really annoying. And I was like, man, this kind of sucks because, like, he could never get into a rhythm because every time he'd go for a takedown, that would happen.

And I was like, I think I really prefer the cage for like the fighting. Like I think I really do like the ring is just too much of a hindrance. You're up against the ropes. You fall through the ropes. All kinds of different stuff like that. But you're absolutely right. Like Pantosia is a world-class grappler. If he gets Asaura against the cage and takes him down, that does give him a little more leverage.

And if you never fought in a cage like that. And as you said, you can train in a cage. Fighting in a cage is just like anything else. Sparring is not training. Training is not fighting. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it is interesting. Like, I mean, listen.

I'm not going to lie to say that, like, and to your point about Asakura's power, like, remember, remember how he knocked out Juan Archelette with a knee to the body? Like, he's got nasty power. But can he land that against Pantosia and can he do it? Like, I'm not going to lie to him at. Like, I'm favoring Pantosha in this fight just because I think skill-wise, Asakura can absolutely get it done. But those outside factors, fighting in a cage, going through your first UFC fight week. This is little things, you know what I mean? Like if this was just, if this was him fighting Roy Val or him fighting, you know,

Brandon Moreno on a fight night card, even then I'd say, you know, you got a little less pressure, a little less obligation. This is the main event of the final UFC pay-per-view of the year. That's a lot of obligation on your first fight. So I lean Pantosia, but, man, Ossacour is so exciting. Like, I'm not going to lie, it would be fun to have a guy like that as champion because he's a super exciting guy, knockout power from everywhere. And, you know, he's kind of the guy who's always.

in a dog fight. Like he's lost some fights in a dog fight, but he's also won some fights in a dog fight. And sometimes that's a good guy to have around. Yeah, and he's not the type of guy, Pantosia, I'm saying, is not the type of, he's not like a Damien Maya. He's just going to spam take downs until you get to the ground. Like he tends to stand with people and, you know, swing a little bit. And I think that's going to be a mistake if he does that with Assecura. He's, again, Alaskir does have that power. And he's got those, you know, little shots that he finds like he did with Juan Archeletta, where he's going to find your little opening and he's going to hurt you with that. So that could be a problem if Pantosia does that. But you got to think Pantosia's like, I'm not going to play around with this. I'm going to shoot in, put him against a cage where he's never been in a professional fight before.

Take him down, probably take his back and choke him out. And remember, you know, Pantosia, I mean, you know, to, you know, to Asa Curse credit, you know, Pantosia did have some dicey moments against Steve Erseg. That was a guy who, you know, at the time really didn't necessarily deserved the title shot.

He was kind of like the one guy available and they needed a main event in Brazil so he got it. It ended up being a much closer fight than I think a lot of people expected. Now maybe that's partially because you know, Pantosia had the pressure on him.

He's fighting at home in Brazil. He's headlining a pay-per-view, all those kind of things. Maybe that was like affecting him. I don't know. But I think Asa, of course, got a chance, especially with his power at this division, but I just

think Pantosia is really good. And I just, again, as you said, I think the disparity in their striking is I think of course clearly the better striker but I don't think Pantoja is a terrible striker. On the ground I think there's a disparity like if it hits to grab Pantosia is a much better grappler

if that makes sense what I'm saying. Dude how many dial defenses the Pantosia have now? I think this will be his third or fourth already. He beat he beat Rovalh. He beat Erzig and yeah I think this would be three. Yeah I mean he's really kind of flying

under the radar as like a really really good champion. right? I mean, we could talk about, you know, him fight like Ersig, who wasn't necessarily deserving or, you know, now Asakira, a guy coming in on his first fight coming into the title fight. But look, Pantosia is doing what he's supposed to do. He's going out and winning.

So, you know, he's not picking who's in front of him. He's just going out there and beating him. So you got to give some, put some respect on this guy's name. You don't hear a lot about Pantosia. You know, he doesn't seem to carry the weight of a lot of other champions. But, man, I think you got to start putting some respect on his name at some point. I think it's a nice thing with him having him as a main event here. I think he's going to get his name out there a lot more, especially on a card like this.

I mean, you know, even the prelims have some big names. So I think a lot of people are going to be watching this. Absolutely. Can I ask this question, Matt? I am curious about this because flyweight has been around for a while. And I think we all agree the greatest flyweight of all time by a wide. mile is Demetrius Johnson. He was the greatest final eight arguably one the greatest pound for pound fighters of all time. Skill-wise, you could argue he's number one. I mean,

he's just incredible. But Demetrius never really got the popularity. He could not sell a pay-per-view by himself. We all know that. Demetrius has talked about that. That's why he got to pay disputes to the UFC because it's like, hey, I want this much money. They're like, well, you don't sell, so we're not going to give you that much money and blah, blah, blah. since Demetrius has left, we had an incredible series of fights with Devincent Figurado and Brandon Moreno. Great fights, right? But I don't know that those fights, like, broke through to, like, the mainstream, if you know what I mean? Like, we all talk about it, but I don't know if, like, ESPN on, like, first take, Stephen A. Smith wasn't trying to prove himself as an MMA fan talking about Devis and Figurator and Brandon Moreno.

Are we just, like, do we just have to, like, acknowledge or are, or, are, do we just, you? I guess my question is, we've seen Bantamakes explode. Shawton-Malley became a legitimate star. Featherweights, obviously, I think are stars. You look at what, you know, Ilya Tepore has a chance potentially to become one of the biggest stars. And that's after Connor and Aldo. I mean, the list goes on on.

We know it lightweight. Flyway's the one division in the men's divisions that just not has never really totally caught on. And like it or not, there are the people who argue they just can't get into, like, the smallest guys fighting, right? are we just like is there is there anything that can really push this division to where it could be like because we can't say it's like at this point there had to have been somebody that attached like they're you know their star power's there their potential's there right like i know shot o'malley didn't fight a flyway but

they've had potential there but i'm just curious like are we just going to have to admit that like flyweight is a it's a great division competitively but it's just never going to be like the star division Yeah, it's a rest question. It's hard to say. First off, they're going to need that star, that guy that's going to say the right things and have the right demeanor and the right persona and aura like a Sean O'Malley. Like I don't think the Bantamweight Division was really that big until Sean O'Malley, right? I mean, it was, you had some good guys, but, you know, until Sean O'Malley, like it was,

if you look at boxing, which I guess is our closest thing we can compare it to, look, guys under 140, just don't get the love, right? It's pretty rare that you see guys much smaller get the love, right? Even in a way, I mean, how many fights did he win before his name was out there?

Look at Chocolatito. Hardly anybody even knows who he is, and he was the fucking killer of killers for the longest time. Javante never really broke through until he started moving up. Lomacheco never really started breaking through until he moved up other than I guess he's a little bit of an anomaly in that sense

but it's just a I think people kind of go around with this because it's kind of interesting right where like the heavy weights probably put on the worst fights and get the most love and then the fights get better as the competitors get smaller

but the they don't just don't get the same love, right? We know the best fights are in the smaller divisions. Like, it's the most speed, the most volume of strikes, by far the most skill,

but they just don't get the most love. And I think it's something where people have this thing where they think they could beat them, right? They think they could beat up Demetri's Johnson. I think, you know, kind of subconsciously. That's kind of way they're feeling, but they're like, like, dude, I don't have a chance against Francis Ingano.

Yeah, I got to fuck you up, right? And it's like, well, Demetrius should just fuck you up in a different way. But that's kind of the vibe that I get. I don't know if that's really the case or not, but what do you think about that? I actually think you're right. And I do think, listen, I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying you're right. I think the size matters in these conversations.

Because you mentioned Inouye. Like, Inouye is incredible. But even now, I would say a lot of average boxing fans don't know Inouye, the way they know names like even Jervante Davis, or, you know, or a Ryan Garcia or, you know, obviously you go up to, you know, better be abibble, you know, guys like that. But like, I think it started with boxing because of the knockouts. You go to heavyweight, you get those in truly incredible violent knockouts.

So Mike Tyson knockouts. You watch what he did in his career. You're like, those are the things that people used to love to tune in and watch. And you don't typically get those kind of finishes in the lighter divisions, at least when you get down to, like, flyweight. You're right, because what you, like, you can't get a. away with things at heavyweight. You make one wrong move and a glancing blow knocks your fucking head off. That doesn't typically happen in flyweight so you have to be more skilled.

You have to be able to like do everything really, really well at flyweight because typically speaking, you're not going to get that one hit or quitter. It exists, but it's rare. You know what mean? It's much more rare than heavyweight where a guy flicks another guy and he goes flying across the octagon because they're 260 pound men hitting each other. But I do, let's, let's, let's Listen, like her. And listen, I know this is going to come off. People are going to get mad that I'm saying this. But you know this, Matt.

You've heard her. I'm not trying to make you step on a hornet's nest here, but you know this. There are some people who still can't get into women's fighting. Because they just don't like women. They don't like watching women fight for whatever reason. And they can call it sex. They don't like it. I'm not saying it's right.

I love women's fighting. I've been a women's fighting fan long before it was in the UFC. But there are some people who just don't want to support it. Don't like it. And by the way, I can disagree. people all they want. I think fly weights are incredible. I think their fights are amazing. I mean, Figuerreta Moreno had

some of the best fights I've seen in the last decade. You know what I mean? Demetrius Johnson, as I just said, maybe this most skilled mixed martial arts we've ever seen, period, period, of all time. But I can't tell people what to like. I can't tell people what they should or shouldn't watch. You know what I mean? I can tell them you should watch, but ultimately it's up to the people.

So they don't like flyways, they don't like flyways. no that's exactly right and yeah it's just interesting because i really think there's like a subconscious thought where people just feel like they could beat them yeah i really think that like i think people are when they watch fighting i mean how many times have you been in a bar or whatever and people act like they could be in there they're telling the guys what they should be doing and you know or that you know i see red or whatever kind of bullshit like that and um yeah they just don't have any fucking idea man they just have no clue. Go to a gym one day and you'll learn. I got a 16 year old kid in my gym while he's 17 now.

And I don't know how many times he's actually moving over Thailand now, but I don't know how many times before guys would come in and say, yeah, I want to be a fighter. I'm like, oh, okay, well here, let's train with this guy today. And he's a 16 year old kid. You know, looks a little bit dorky, I guess, but, and he would just fuck them up. And, it, and, he would just fuck them up. And And then afterwards, I'm like, you sure you still want to be a fighter, bro? Like, you just lost to a 16-year-old kid. You just got your ass kicked. And, you know, everybody has that feeling that they can win a fight against, you know,

somebody smaller than they think the size really matters. And it does when you actually have skill. But no, it doesn't matter when you don't have no skill against someone skilled. I remember when I was doing jiu-jitsu and I was getting better. I was learning and I was getting pretty good. And I remember at one point I got matched up against a guy who couldn't have been 5 foot 3, maybe 120 pounds. And I'm 6 foot 3.

I'm a big guy. And back then I was like maybe like 225. I was a big dude. And I'm in my head. I'm like, this is like I could just sit on this guy. Like this is not going to be good because like even if like he's more skilled to me, like I could just power out of everything because I'm that much bigger. Boy did I get humbled that day because he armed barbed me in about 18 seconds

off his back. I took him down the arm barbie immediately. I was like, holy shit. It was like a tornado hit me. It is, like I said, it is a very humbling experience. And by the way, like I didn't think I was going to kill him. I was more just like, I'm not going to get submitted because I'm going to be that much bigger than him. Like I can hold on to him and power out of things. Didn't work out too well. So yeah, I think you're probably right. Like there is that that bar fight mentality. Like, oh, he's five foot two. I'd kick his ass. Try that with Demetrease Johnson. See how well it works out for you. I guarantee you'll be crying and going home.

I just lost one five for two guys. What did you see the competition DJ did recently? I think it was in a ghee. It was against a brown belt that was like 300 pounds. And Demetri's submitted him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did see that. I mean, it's fast, fascinating. Like, that's a skilled guy.

I think he was a brown belt. I mean, so he's a legitimate competitor knows what he's doing. And Demetri still submitted him. I mean, it's, I trained with Demetri's back in the day. I mean, he is a tiny guy. He is a very, very small person. and I knew what I was doing so, you know, maybe

it wasn't really beat me up or anything, but there was times when, like, he would, you know, just like a little squirrel, you know, just slept out of something. You're like, dude, like, how are you over there so quick? Literally, like, wrestling with a squirrel. Yeah, it's remarkable, dude, like I said. But I just wonder, like, I have to ask that question

because, like, I think this is a tremendous fight on Saturday, but I think other fights in the car are getting more attention than the main event. I know part of that is probably because, a lot of people don't know Asakora. I'm sure that's part of it. You know what I mean? Because he's just not a known quantity to the larger audience.

But to you and I, we think it's awesome. I think it's an incredible fight. To that point. It's awesome. But look, I mean, to be fair, Ian Gary and Shavcott is a fucking great fight, too. Like, it doesn't matter who the main event is. That's a fucking great fight. Okay.

So let me just say this after I've just gone in this huge preamble, talking about how much I like fly weights. That's the main event for me. Ian Gary and Shabkat. That is what an incredible fight. Listen, I would have loved to have seen Belal against Shabkat because I truly do believe if there's anyone that is a kryptonite to what Shabat does, I think it could be Bilal Muhammad.

I'm not saying you will win. I'm just saying like stylistically, Bilal presents a lot of problems to Shabkat Rachmanov. But holy fuck. Shavkat and Ian Gary, what a fucking fight that's going to be. And you know what I love about it, Matt? Even though we had to lose out on a title fight, I don't know if you saw today,

Bilal said he's been cleared to train again. so that's awesome news. Hopefully he'll be able to return to Lee next year and defend his title. But I know I made this argument with you before. I actually thought, like, I had no problem with Shabak getting the title shot. Let me be clear about that.

But I was also kind of the mindset, like, man, I think one more. Like, I think he, you know, his biggest win is Wonderboy. I was like, man, maybe one more. And he and Gary kind of the same thing. Like, you know, he beat Michael Benham Page. He has a couple good wins. I'm like, one more. Like, I think one more.

This is it. Like, this is a perfect fight to determine the number one could turn. I know it's not what they wanted because you kind of knock one them out of the race a little bit, but this is a tremendous fight. But it's also the UFC. Like they can work their way back up, right? If one of them loses, which is the great thing about the way the UFC kind of handles things, right?

If it's boxing, you know, the guy loses and you don't hear from them for another five years or maybe never again. But UFC, he can work his way back up. This could be, the one thing about this fight is it could be an insanely exciting fight. We're crazy excited to watch it. could also be a very one-sided, lopsided fight. And the problem for Ian Gary is probably the only way this is lopsided is going to be towards Shavka. There's definitely a chance, a slimmer chance, that Y and Gary goes out there and just pieces him up on the feet.

There's a chance of that. More likely if it's going to be lopsided one way or the other, it's going to be Shavka. grabbing him, throwing him to the ground, choking him right back, right out. And I'm hoping that doesn't happen, right? Because I want to see a fight. I want to see, I want to see these two go at it.

And I can see that too. But if it's lopsided, we're going to know why, I think. I agree. I totally agree. And I, listen, I think Ian Gary, you know, listen, they trained together in the past, so they know each other better. Yeah.

You know, they know each other's length and distance and things like that. And I think those are little things to make it. They're both really tall, lengthy welterways. Like, they're not, you know, they're not short guys. And I think Ian, like, I think Ian striking is elite. He's an elite striker. But we saw in his last fight with Michael Benham Page, like, he knew that was what MVP

wanted to do. So he took him down a bunch of times. And I thought it was a very smart strategy. Like, why play a game where you're at a, you know, a 52-48 advantage, potentially, versus one where you're on the ground and you're at a 70-30 or an 80-20? Like, why would you not do that? Now, this time around, I think it's the opposite. And I think he is definitely, I think he's probably the much cleaner striker.

I think Shafkat hits like a truck, but I think he's a cleaner striker. But on the ground, I think Shabkat's a much, much more dangerous fighter. I think here's my, I'm not saying advice, but here's what I think, my personal opinion, what I think Ian Gary needs to do. He needs to, he needs to pick and frustrate Shabat on the feet on the outside, never let him get close, just jab him to death. piss him off with the jab, make him make mistakes, and then dig him into that third and fourth round, because we've never seen Shab Kat go there. We don't know. Can he go five rounds? We have no idea.

Is this a five-round fight? It is a five-round fight. It is a five-round fight. And you remember the Jeff Neal fight? When Jeff hit him a couple times, they got a little ugly. Now, he ended up catching Jeff and submitted him, but he couldn't get Jeff out of there. And Jeff, it was kind of what we saw with Gilbert Burns and Hamzot. When Hamzah got hit a couple times, we were like, oh shit. Like, Hamzot had to react. He couldn't get him down. And it turned into a, you know, just a slug fest. And it's like, man, this is kind of playing a little bit into Gilbert's hand. And Gilbert, you know, I mean, it was a split decision, a very, very close fight. I think Ian's got to frustrate him at the beginning, just make him chase him, make him just go stick that jab in his face.

And then start making it ugly and see if Shabkat has enough into gas tank to go into rounds four and five. The problem is you got to stay away from Shabkat-Ragmanov for 20 minutes or 15 minutes to make that happen. I don't know that anyone can do that. Well, yeah, and that's when it comes to seeing Gary, I called a long time ago, I'm sure you remember, and I said, look, he has championship qualities. He has what it takes to be a champion. I see in his demeanor, the way he carries himself,

his personality is, he certainly has some star power there, and his skills. The kryptonite, the question, the big gaping hole in his game is his ground game. right and now he's at that point in the division you know coming up to title contention where that's got to be on point now and we're going to find out with shop kind of like he's got to have good defense or good get-ups or something he's got to have something there that people aren't dominating because even if he beat shavka he's got to go to belal what's ball what's ball going to do he's

going to cardio death him shot after shot right like this is going to be the gameplay and we already know it. There's not really, I don't think there's a lot of question. I don't think Belal's going to stand there and, you know, fight jab for jab with Ian Gary. So if Ian Gary wants to be champion, he's got to have that hole in his game. And we haven't really seen it as a hole in his game yet either. So we don't know how big of a hole that is if it's there at all. But at least from what I've seen, I don't, I don't remember seeing him really do a lot of grappling. you know someone that just wants to take him down and beat him on the ground yeah he hasn't really fought that yet so yeah yeah so that's the big question yeah i think it's

i wouldn't say it's certain but it's pretty pretty high probability that shopcott's going to look to take him down at some point but i mean i think even if shopcott's game plan is like beat him on the feet he's going to they're going to clinch up at some point you know get close to each other and Shavcott's going to take him down, or at least try to take him down. And we're going to find out where he and Gary's at on the ground. And if he, again, if he somehow beats Shavcott here, he's got to go to Blah. We already know Blal's game plan. It's pretty much a lock for his game plan, I think.

Yeah. So let me ask you a two-part question, and the answer may be the same for both. I feel like probably they are, but I'm asking you the question anyways. Which way are you leaning, winning this fight? And then the other question is, who is actually a bigger thing? threat to below. Not who's going to win this fight, but who is actually the bigger threat to Bala Muhammad's title? Is it Shabkat or is it Ian Gary? They both may be the same answer. I have a feeling they probably are. Yeah, you already know the answers. So who's winning and who do you think

is the bigger threat to Bilau? Yeah, it's all Shavkat for sure. And that's, but the thing is, Ian Gerey said, I see the championship qualities in him. We just haven't seen any evidence of his ground game to say that he should win both of those fights. now is his chance to show us, right? Now he gets the opportunity, right? You're in the top five now. If you haven't already cleared that up, you're running way far behind.

You're late on the game. Then you're going to have a hard time because, you know, these guys, if that's the blueprint to beat you, these guys are one of these two is probably going to show that blueprint. And a lot of people are going to be following that in the future. Yeah, I agree.

And here's the everything I'll say about this. And this is a weird way to look at a fight, you know, because Shabkat is such a dominant finisher. There's part of me that really hopes we do get into the fourth or fifth round because I want to know. Like, I want to know does Shabat have that gas tank to go into fourth and fifth? Because, again, training's not fighting. He can do 25 minutes straight in the cage in a sparring session. It doesn't mean it's what it's like in a fight. The adrenaline dump, everything, you know.

I want to see him in that fourth and fifth round because, as I said earlier, unless you finish Bilal Muhammad, which, again, He may do. He may take him down in the first round. I'll be him in the first round. I have no idea. But I'm saying like, if you let Bilal Muhammad stick around, that dude is going to be in your face, taking you down, grinding on you.

And by the fifth round, you're going to be pleading for oxygen. That's just what that guy does. He grinds you into the fucking mat. And I want to know, like, if I had one question, one real big question about Shafkat, it's like how can he deal with that kind of pressure and pace about Bilal Muhammad?

Because as I said, if there's one guy that's like the quote unquote kryptonite to Shavkat, it'd be a guy like Balau who could take him down, grind him, slow the pace, work and work and work and don't let him get off, and then, you know, make it go in that fourth and fifth round when you know, you know, Below's going to put that cardio on him. You know that's how it's going to happen. So I kind of want to see this fight go that far. Like, even though I'm picking Shabkat to win and I do believe he'll win, I kind of hope it does go deeper because I want to know, like, can he, can he, can't he, if he looks as good in the fourth round as he does in the first, questions answered. And I know Ian Gary's pace may not be Bilau's pace, but at least lets me know he can do it. We really have no idea right now.

We have no idea. It can even go to three rounds. He's never gone three rounds. Yeah. And the other side, if Ian Gary is able to last three rounds, that means he's probably been taken down at least once or twice, and then tells him he's got some grappling skills, and he can probably get back to his feet or he can survive on the ground at least. And that's going to say a lot about Ian Gary right there too.

So seeing this fight go long would be, I think it would show a lot for both fighters. And that's what we both would like to see. That's what we'd all like to see is both of these guys get into some deep rounds. See Ian Gary's skills on the ground to see Shavkat last. See how his cardio holds up over three to five rounds. Yeah. And because like I said, you already know if it's Bilow and Ian Gary, you know what that fight is probably going to look like. I can't say that with this much certainty with Shabkat, even though I do believe Below is

probably the toughest matchup for Shabat at Welchaw? I mean, I think Belaw as a champ is going to be a tough matchup for anybody. But I legitimately think, like, if there's one guy who matches up well enough with Shabat, it is Bilal Muhammad. I said that when they made the fight, I say it now again. But like I said, I think Shabat's going to show something different on Saturday, especially when it gets deeper in the fight. But like I said, that's also up to Ian Gary.

Can he survive? You know, can he go that long with Shabat, Rechman. Yeah. Yeah. And in terms of Ian Gary matched up with Bilal, I think this Shavkov fights a real test to see how he would match up with Ballaw. Because, again, I really believe both of them are going to be looking to take him down. And how well can he strike when someone is just trying to take him down when that's their game plan and when that's their strategy?

He might show some skills where he can stick and move. You know, Leon Edwards showed great skills in that area when he fought Blal the first time, right, where he was able to keep a distance the whole time, keep pecking him with little shots. I think Ian Gary might be able to do that. And that's going to be, my biggest question with him is kind of really his experience in youth. You know, like he's going to, at some point he's going to get excited. He's not going to want to have a, I don't know if he has the mental discipline to carry out a boring fight and wait for the opportunity and be patient or if he can, or if he'll just, you know, try to explode at some point and give,

give that big opportunity up to someone like shop cotter below yeah it'll be interesting it's i mean listen man that's i mean that's the fight i love this card this card's really good and as i said i'm really looking forward to the main event but man it's chavcaddy and gary for me this is the one i'm just i can't wait for yeah yeah it was like you said you know these are both of them are such highly skilled fights that may not be barn burners but these are fans fights here right these aren't you know the Just Bleed fans fights. But they're really us pure fans. I think these are great fights for us.

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Wi-Fi available to aeroplime members on equipped flights sponsored by Bell. Conditions apply. See Air Canada.com. I agree. Let me ask you this question, Matt, because down the card, I mean, when you look at this card top to bottom, it is incredibly stacked. As I said, Cyril Gone taking on Alexander Volkov. That's a great fight.

That could potentially be a number one contenders fight, depending on whether or not John Jones ends up fighting Tom Aspinall. We may see Cyril gone or one of them against Tom Aspinall. Bryce Mitchell, Crone, Gracie, kind of a weird one. but hey, why not? Nate Landware against Dooh Cho, you know, that's going to be a bar and burner, but then the prelims, you got Dominic Reyes, Anthony Smith,

that's a great fight. Vicente, Lucé, Thimba, Garimbo, that's a great fight. Moser, Evelov, Algeman, Sterling, Randy Brown versus Brian Battle, Chris Wybin versus Eric Anders, Cody Durden versus Joshua Van. You got Michael Kiesa and Max Griffin on the early prelims, Clay Guida and Chase Hooper on the early prelims,

and then Kennedy Injequo against Lucas Bratzee. here's a question I have for you, Matt, because maybe you saw it today, maybe you didn't. Chris Wyman, Eric Anders is the featured prelim. Al Jermaine Sterling and Mosa, Evelov, which could be, I mean, depending on how things play out, that could be a federal-weight title contender match. That's a title contender right there.

They're all in the prelims. Now, Al Jermaine came out and said, like, he didn't understand it. He doesn't like being on, he doesn't like the prelim thing. He doesn't agree with it, you know, and he's like, I want to prove to them why I shouldn't be on the prelims. prelims. Mozart came out a couple hours ago and said, more or less, I don't give a shit. ESPN, there's going to be more people watching my fight didn't even on the pay-per-view,

so what do I care? I'm curious, Matt, because there's always this question of stature on a card, right? Like, where you're out on the card matters. You are a fighter. You fought everywhere. You fought main events. You fought prelims. I remember when you fought, it was like you started the chain of events at the UFC.

the one, I can't remember the number. It was when you fought Tim, Tim Means. When the whole car was decisions. Yeah, a Connor fight, yeah. Yeah, the whole fight was decisions that you came and got to finish and the rest of the car was bonkers. Like the last six fights were bonkers started with your fight. That was a great one.

But I'm curious, like, how much did you care about your placement on a fight card? And then, again, I know I'm not trying to make you get into Al Jermaine or Mosa or Chris Weibn or anyone else's head. But how much should a fighter actually care about a fighter? placement on a card. Well, it's like this. We all, I think fighters naturally look at it as almost a respect thing. Like how much does the UFC, what do they think of us?

And when they put us on the main card, we think that they think more of us. When they put us on the prelims, you feel like you're kind of demoted. In terms of the fans, you know, and that's kind of a selling point that the UFC will say. It's like, well, if you're on the ESPN prelims, like more people are going to watch than the pay-per-view or, you know, something along those lines. And I don't think that really does it for most fighters. It definitely never did it for me.

When I was on the prelims, you know, I felt like I was being disrespected in a sense or just demoted, you know, like, I'm like I'm not a prelim guy, you know, like because what you feel like in your head is you know you're working your way up the card and then you know like like like the first fight on the main card is the white belt and then the next is a blue and you know you want to be the black belt whether that's really true or not I don't think the UFC actually looks at it that way I don't think they're actually like like oh we're going to put you on the prelims because we don't like you or you're not selling or whatever

but I think there's a subconscious feeling in every fighter's head. And just like I was saying before, look, excuse me, when the bell rings, it's all the fuck the same. The biggest difference is when you're on the main card, there's more crowd there. And that's what we all want. We all want to be in front of more people, a louder crowd. I'm guessing every other fighter does. I never really had that conversation.

But for me, I always wanted the most crowd that I could have. I feel way more comfortable in front of the biggest crowd than, you know, kind of scattered, empty seats and people kind of cheering and, you know, going to get their beers and get settled in and people walk it in as they're fighting and things like that. It's, I mean, like it or not, and as you said, I don't know the UFC things do it this way, but it's a status thing. Like it or not, it is, right? Like, when you're on a, and especially for a pay-per-view, like, obviously I think fight nights are a little different because sometimes fight nights just feel like one long. card. And sometimes the only difference is if you're the main event or not, like at that point you're kind of, they don't even call, they don't even call the co-main event on a lot

of fight nights, the co-main event. They just call it a featured bout because they're just like, whatever. But on a pay-per-view, it's the status, right? Like, the paper-views are like the biggest cards of the year. And you want to be on the biggest cards of the year. Well, the only way you're on the biggest cards of the year is if you're on the main card. And like it or not, I'm not saying it's right.

But at the end of the night, we're going to be talking about, Pentosia, Asakura, Shavkat, Ian Gary, probably Cyril Ghan, Alexander Volkov, and then depending on if there's a crazy finish in one of the first two fights. That's just how it works. When the end of the night comes, that's what we're going to be focused on. Now, Al Jermaine and Stirli and Mosa-Evlov, in my opinion, should be on the main card. That is a fight that is absolutely potentially going to be a fight that could determine the next number one contend the division.

Why do I think they put on the prelims? Because I think they think it's going to turn into a three-round grapple fast. I think it's going to be two wrestlers And it's either going to be an ugly striking match Between two wrestlers Or it's going to be a grappling match between two wrestlers I guarantee you that's why it's on the prelims And I think you probably agree with me Matt

But I agree with the status thing Especially for a pay-review Like there's been a couple of times Like Chris Wyman who's a former champion Al Jemais Sterling who's a former champion They feel like they're demoted I guarantee like I feel that way When I'd get pit on the pre-lips

Like I'm demoted. Like you don't care about me as much. Like you're thinking I'm on my way out, right? Like you're not moving me up the car towards the main event. That's where we all want to be. We want to be the main event. And that's the other thing too. Like we remember like most fighters, but not every fighter,

but most fighters start out on the prelims. Then you go to the feature prelims. Then you go to the pay-per-view. You go to the main card or like a fight night main event. That's like the graduation. Now, occasionally you'll get a bow nickel who's kind of had the star power from day one. and he always gets on the main card. But I think you remember this, Matt.

We probably talked about it back at 300. When people were pissed off, the Bo Nickel had a main card spot. And they're like, how did he get on the main car when there's all these other incredible fights on the undercard? And I kind of argued against him. It's like, listen, they're trying to build him up. I know what they're trying to do. They're trying to give him shine alongside Pereira and Holloway and Gage and all.

I get it. But there was people who were legitimately upset that he got a main card spot over Al Jermain and some of the other guys. the prelims. So like it or not, and as you said, I don't know that the, here's the funny thing about it, Matt. I don't know the UFC's thinking of it as like a demotion,

but I guarantee you, I guarantee you, I guarantee damn to you, the reason why Al Jemate and Mosa is on the prelim is because they don't think it's going to be an exciting fight. And so that's why they're like Do Ho Choi, Nate Landware, that's probably going to be a barn burner. Someone's getting their head knocked in the third row. Bryce Mitchell Crone Gracie is kind of a weird one, because

that's a grappling match, but it's like, I don't I don't really totally understand the logic in that one being on the main card, but be that as maybe they're just trying to determine, like, who's going to fall off the edge of the flat earth. I'm not really sure. Maybe that's the contest they're doing in that one.

But, like, I just, I guarantee you, like, and also to your point, Matt, if that's the way the UFC thinks, like, we think this is going to be a grapple-heavy wrestling fest, then in a way, isn't that a demotion? Like, isn't that kind of what you're saying? Like, it is a little bit of a demotion. If they're saying, we don't trust you to put on an entertaining fight,

so we're going to put you on the prelims. And not even the feature preloms. like they're the third fight down from the prelims. I know, right? And that's, like I said, I don't know what the UFC's thinking when they do that stuff. I don't know if they're, I don't know what kind of like analytics they run or like what's going through. If it's just one guy, Dana or, you know, Sean and Mick and Dana all sitting down.

I don't know exactly how this all operates. And that'd be an interesting thing to find out. Maybe you asked Dana sometime or in an interview or. or Sean or Mick or something, like just interview him and ask him, like, how do you guys exactly figure this out? Because anytime someone's a former champion, like you would think that they would just get a main card spot

just for being a former champion. Yeah. And the featured prelims, you don't, like I've been featured prelims a few times. You don't feel like you're a main event. Even if that's again, that's kind of the way they sell it, right?

is like where you're the featured prelim slash kind of main event of the prelims. And you're like, you're like, no, I'm, and for me, what I always preferred the absolute best, if I'm not the main event, is you're going to be the first fight of the main card. So you know exactly when you're going on. Because one of the biggest problems you run into backstage is you start warming up, right? Maybe some guys fighting in front of you that's a knockout artist. And you're like, you're like, okay, well, he might knock. come out in 30 seconds.

So we got to start warming up, you know, 15 minutes before he fights. And then the fight goes three rounds. Now you've been warming up for 30 minutes or, you know, your final warm up or whatever. A lot of people warm up for a good hour before everybody's a little different. But you don't know exactly when you're going on. And sometimes you've got to stand in the tunnel and wait. Sometimes you're backstage. It just kind of sucks when you don't know exactly what you're going on.

When you're the main opening the main card, you know, almost the exact time that you're going on so you can time everything a lot better yeah and also the reality is matt like we could ask dana white on saturday night hey why was al jermaine mosa on the prelims need we just said that's just the way the card shook out whatever perception is reality right and as you said whether that's what the i'm sure sean shelby mcmainer aren't going to tell you like oh yeah no it's just the way the card was set up there's nothing against you they'd never tell you that perception is reality though and Al Jermaine feels slighted

he's like hey I'm a former champion and this is like a number one contenders fight and we're on the prelim so we're not even like the feature prelim like the quarter of the third fight down from the top perception is reality Matt whether it's meant that way whether the UFC means it that way or whether they even care the fighters care

as you said you felt demoted so it doesn't matter whether the UFC thinks that way or not they mean it's oh Matt we love you you're the best ever we love you we want you on there to help build people to watch ESPN. They can say that all day. Doesn't mean you feel that way.

You feel the way you feel. And you're like, hey, like, I've been around. I got the most knockouts of welterweight history. Why am I on the fucking prelims? That's what I'm saying. Like, perception is reality. Yeah, I just naturally give the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm just a little too kind or whatever.

I just give them the benefit of the doubt that they got some sort of system. There's some rhyme or reason why they do it the way they do it. Maybe there's not. Maybe it is just, you know, then be like, fuck you, you're on the prelims, right? Like, I really don't know. I just give them a bit of a doubt. There's probably some analytics that they're running and saying,

this is how it's going to worry. Like you said, it's just kind of how it shakes out. Who knows, really. And whether we'll ever get a real answer, who knows on that too, right? Like, that's the other thing. It's a private, you know. But the reality is, like you said, though, when you had it happen to you, you felt like you did something wrong or they're, like, demoting you,

or like, why am I? Al Jermaine is entitled to feel the way he feels. Like, he's like, hold on. Now, why am I on the prelims? Like, and I understand Moussar's like, I don't care. And again, that's what I'm saying. Perception is reality. He doesn't.

A bigger opportunity for Moussar than it is for Al Jermaine, right? Yeah. He gets out and beats Al Jermaine. Like, he's the man of Al Jermaine. Al Jemaine's a former champion. He's supposed to be Mosa. Yeah. So, like I said, I agree what you're saying in reality.

The UFC probably doesn't give a shit. They probably don't care. They're just matching this up, like, where fits way. And I think the Aljama Mosa fight is because the styles. I really do believe that's why it's on the prelims, not because they don't like them. I think it's just like, we think it's going to be a three,

there's a better chance with three-round decision. But again, like you said, perception is reality. When you had it happen to you, you're like, fuck, what I do? Like, why am I not on the main card? And like I said, Chris Wyman being the early prelims, former champ, how's he not like, whoa, like, huh? Like, how am I? What did I do?

Yeah. Yeah, that is what it is. I'll tell you what. Ultimately, you get paid the same, though, unless your main event, then you get a bonus. So, look, these guys are getting fights that there's still Mosa and Al Jermaine winning this fight is going to be a big fight. You got to put that shit in the back of your head. You got to go out there and you got to perform still. You got to forget about all the bullshit.

And that's what I always did. But I remember my first fight, where you were mentioned earlier, well, actually, my first. first fight in the UFC when I fought in Atlanta. And I was supposed to be on the prelims. And then I got bumped up to the main card because somebody fell off. I was the opening fight on the main card. And it was like the greatest feeling in the world, man. It was like the coolest thing.

I thought, you know, my first fight, I'm on the main card already. This is fucking awesome. And it turned out to be awesome too because the arena was sold out. It was the first fight in Atlanta. You know, and I'm opening the main card. They fucking loved it. had the perfect walkout song devil went down to georgia they fucking loved it and and then i ended up putting on a good performance and winning the fight and then the judges you know doing their standard

bullshit gave it to the wrong guy you know dong young kim i was there that night i remember that fight i was like yeah yeah you were at you yeah i was like what the fuck i was like how this happened much much much much much much like what happened here in columbus when you fought uh no offense brian barborena same kind of thing i was like what the fuck are they watching uh but you know Not to throw bad memories, but, you know, same kind of feeling on that one as well. But yeah, the Dongut Kemin, I think that was actually worse. I think that was worse than the Barbarita fight.

Like, in terms of like decision, I was like, what the fuck? That was, was that the, was that the, was that the, that night? I believe so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that was, yeah. Yep, I'm pretty sure. And I think Rich fought Matt Hamill on that card, if I'm not wrong.

I think, yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, because I remember, I remember, I went, to Media Day and I was wearing my University of Cincinnati shirt and Matt Hamill commented on it because I didn't, I knew Rich obviously, but I didn't know Matt. And Matt's like, Matt was like, you, Cincinnati. I was like, yeah, that's where I went to school. I'm from there. So it was just kind of funny. Like, I just happened to wear my, my college t-shirt where I went to college. And but obviously I knew Rich. Like, Rich knew me, but I didn't know Matt Hamill. So, yeah, I do remember

that. Well, you had me think about that earlier when you were talking about the, you know, coming into the UFC for the first time. And, you know, I'd fought on the Ultimate Fighter. The Ultimate Fighter. the Ultimate Fighter finale, but the Ultimate Fighter finale was in the palms. Like it was a tiny, you know, and it was a tiny case. It felt like a regional show, really. Even if you never,

even if you never been to the palms, like it is like, it is tiny, tiny. Like I remember being there for one of the Ultimate Fire finale is like, it's like, what, maybe a thousand people, maybe? I don't even know it's that many. It's tiny. It's got to be something like I could, because the weirdest thing about it that I still remember was,

you know, we warmed up like our locker room. were like upstairs and then there wasn't a tunnel to walk out and then walk out to the cage like we went down a hallway and they got in an elevator

and go down and then you walk out to the cage and I just remember that being the most awkward feeling like so fucking nervous right this is ultimate fighter finale right like you have to win this fight you know this is a fork in the road right

and if you lose this fight you may never fight in the UFC again you win you probably get a contract, right? You're probably in. And I'm in a fucking elevator with like, you know, four or five people. I'm not even walking. Like you're in an elevator.

And it's just such an awkward feeling. But, yeah, I just remember how tiny it was. And then the next fight, let's say, going to a 20,000 person, packed out arena with rabid fans, you know, just excited as fuck that the UFC's finally coming. And, you know, Chuck Ladell and Rashadale and Rashad Evans was a big main event.

So that was a lot of people were very excited to be there. First fight in Atlanta. I still, to this day, remember the feeling of walking out and feeling the energy of that crowd for the first time of my life. And I thrived under it and loved it. I think it helped my performance. We'll see how it does with Issa Cura, because that's a unique feeling.

And I think it breaks some people and hurts some people. For me, I fucking loved it. And also, one last thing in this all prelim versus main card, and the other, I know this is like, but it's reality. This card's in Vegas. The Vegas crowd doesn't show up early. They generally show up for the main card. So a lot of people on the prelims, like Chris Wyman's going to be fighting in front of Iowa,

wager a half-empty arena. Like when he fights on the early prelims, it's going to be half-empty arena. Maybe they'll start a little bit more for like Al Jermaine's fight, but like that's the other thing you have to remember. Like this is Vegas. Even Atlanta, like Atlanta shows up early because it's the first UFC show. Everyone wants to be there for the entire card. maybe, you know, it gets a little crazier for the main card, but generally it's going to be

pretty packed out for the entire show. Vegas is notoriously late. Like, they generally don't show up to the main cards. Like, for Al Jermaine and Chris Wyman, because they're the former champions, like, in a way I do feel bad because, like, Chris Wyman's going to go out and fight on the early prelims at, like, 7 o'clock, and it's going to have empty arena. Even Al Jermaine. Like, you're not going to get, the crowd's not going to show up to probably like Dominic

Reyes Anthony Smith. That's the final prelim going into the main car. that's when the crowd will really start, like, filing in and really piling into the arena. Vegas is notorious for that. So, like, again, I'm just throwing out, like, that's another thing you got to remember. Like, they're going to be fighting in front of a crowd, but it's going to be like a half-field crowd. Yeah. Yeah.

It's going to be different for them. So, but, look, both those guys are competitors. Both those guys are warriors. They're going to go out there. They're going to put on great fights. They're going to have great performances. And those are two really good fights for them, too. I think those are two interesting fights.

fights. I think Eric Anders is a proper matchup for Chris Wyman and Movesar is a proper matchup for Al Jemate. So I think there are great fights that I'll want to be watching. Hopefully my day works out where I can get to see him. Yeah, it's like I said, it's an, I mean, again, it's an incredibly stacked card from top to bottom. Like I said, when you got Clay Guida, there's another legend, him and Michael Kiesa, both on the early prelims, which another one, kind of a weird one. Brian Battles look great lately. Him and Randy Brown Vicente, Vicente, Luca, and Timbo Garimbo's really good with Dominic Reyes, Anthony Smith. I mean, Reyes finally got back on track of

his last one, got a knockout, Anthony. He's kind of on a bit of a rough run right now. That could be like a make or break fight for either one of those guys. And we all wondered, like, is Reyes ever going to fight again? He came back and fought and won. And I think in a way we're all happy for him because, you know, at one point, this was a guy who we argued beat John Jones, and then

he went on a really rough run in his career. So it's a really good card. It's just, it doesn't have the star power at the top in terms of like all leading to the main event feeling, you know, but, dude, I'll be honest, sometimes I'd rather have these kind of cards, because as much as I do love the cards with, like, the big main event, they don't always stack the cards with the big main event, so you're kind of like waiting, waiting,

waiting, let's get to the main event, let's get to the main event. On Saturday night, dude, I'm excited for like, I'm excited for every fight. Like, there's not a bad fight on this car. And they're all important fights, too, right? They're going to, a lot of these fights are going to be telling us where guys are at in their careers and you know i think a lot of career trajectories can change that night so you know a lot of important fights a lot of um needed wins from a lot of guys this night absolutely i agree uh matt so you said if you can watch what do you got going on saturday um i have a holiday event at my gym so

that's going to be um well we've done it too but you know when you have these events it's never done when it's done you know that that that means that the crowd leaves and you're done making sales, you're done feeding people. But that's when the work actually starts for people like me who actually run the gym. Yeah. Well, I'm sure nothing else should be able to catch the highlights on Sunday.

Well, and that's what I do most of the time anyway. Like, I'm up late right now. I'm usually a 9, 10 o'clock bedtime person. So I like getting up early. So staying up until 1 o'clock

in the morning to watch the fights, man. That's a grinder for me, bro. And then I'll be messed up to hold next day. So I like to get, especially now, since I've been back from Thailand, I'll get up a lot earlier. And, you know, and I just, I just been embracing it, right? You know, my schedule got all fucked up.

So fuck it. I'm going to get up early, get my workouts in early. And I'm going to start filming a lot more courses and stuff, too. So, you know, I use that early time to start putting things out there for more people, which, you know, shameless plug, you know, just more as the is dynamic striking course coming out. I'm looking at starting a school community,

which would be an interesting one for me. I don't know. Do you know anything about these school communities? You ever heard of this? I don't. I have not. Yeah, so it's an app, S-K-O-O-L.

It's a app. It's pretty cool. You know, most of it's like educational communities. You know, just imagine like a Facebook community. but it's all communities, you know, and, you know, so you have to answer the questions of whatever to get in, but then you get in, and there's, you know, different courses you can buy on there based off of, you know, whatever community you want to be a part of, right? You know, it's something you can buy courses or pay for one-on-ones, consults with whoever's running the community. So I want to put something together like this, you know, to give back to. the people a lot more.

Yeah, I like it. I dig it a lot. And that's awesome. I know you do a lot of stuff with the dynamic striking. So I saw it was your, uh, what was the,

the elbow one went up the other day. I saw that on, on Instagram. So, uh, those are really cool. The old Matt, the old Matt Brown.

So things like that, like, like I get some questions on Instagram, whatever about that every now and then. And what I can do is I can take those courses. You know, I can put them on school also. But they take the course and then,

you know, people are working their way through the course, you know, try and send the different techniques and then I'll have access to me to ask the question versus, you know,

blowing out my Instagram, you know, and I'll go on there regularly and give them knowledge or immortal wisdom, whatever you want to call it, and help them progress through their journey

in the martial arts or in life. Maybe I'll give some dating advice, which we used to do, but I think you got sick of hearing my dating advice. I don't know. No,

we got to get back. to that. You know what's great, though, we got after next week, because we got the Tampa car, then we're on a law. We got like a month between shows, so I think we'll have a lot of time for some Matt Brown dating advice in there. Well, it's interesting. You know, at my gym, I

have talks with these people all the time that ask me about their different problems, whether it's in our life or whether it's in martial arts. It's really all the same, though. That's the one thing that I've learned is a your personality is really magnified on the mats right so it's all the same shit sports psychology is the same as just psychology it's all the same shit and we all have our same things that we are struggling with

we all have flaws we all have struggles we all have things that are holding us back we all have self-esteem issues and depression and anxiety and all these different things and it's all the same shit, no matter what kind of journey you're on. So if I can provide some value with my, I guess you call wisdom, but, you know, my experiences in life and the wisdom that I've felt has helped me through my life. And I think it's a powerful thing. And I do it at the gym all time. So why not open that up to the entire world? Absolutely. I love it. I love it. Love the idea. I think it's really cool. So yeah, look forward to that. getting up and running in the near future.

So school, I've never heard of that. I'll just check it out. School community. So, yeah, I'll check it out. Download the app. And, I mean, you can go on and, you know, start looking at communities right now. I've seen the only MMA ones I've seen is Tom Aspenall has one.

And who else? One other person had one. Ben Woolis, a PFL fighter, has one. That's a random one. Yeah, which was kind of interesting. But I don't think he does much with it. I'm not sure. we'll see.

I want to build the biggest and best community on there that I can myself. I love it. I love it. Yeah, we'll look forward to that. And we'll have to get back into dating advice with Matt Brown and storytime with Matt Brown. We have some break between cards coming up. So I think we'll get a little bit of both coming up because I always love the story time. I'll throw out the question on Twitter and be like, what stories would you like to hear from Matt Brown's history?

And let's tell some stories in here because we get it. We've gotten to some fun ones before about like your first ever short notice by Matt Arroyo, which was hilarious. on how that whole thing came together. So I think some more story time with Matt Brown would be good too. Matt, if people want to check you out, support you, as we always say, whatever you got going on, where can they throw you some support?

Where can they check out what you got going on outside of the podcast? At I'm the Immortal Instagram and Twitter, Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. And I always plug little things. But you know what? The easiest way to find everything that I'm all about is go to my link in my bio on Instagram. Check it all out, man.

I got everything listed right there. and you can have some fun in there and there's something for everyone in there between my Airbnbs, my courses on Dynamic Striking, my products that I support and support me between the creatine and the saunas

and everything. So go on there and check it out. And check out the Substack. I really enjoy the Substack newsletter. People should check that out. I really enjoy Re-Aadles. Yeah, that's my moral wisdom right there on the weekly newsletter on Substack.

Yeah, really, really, people should really check that out. It's actually really, really insightful stuff. So people should definitely check that as well. As always, we want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes into the podcast. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

And of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We will see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writers. We wrap up UFC 310. Enjoy the fights this weekend. We'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you that.

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