MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: UFC Legend Mark Coleman Reveals Details Of Stipe Miocic’s Preparation For Jon Jones

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

This week on The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC Hall of Famer Mark Coleman joins the show alongside Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin to discuss the latest happenings in combat sports. Coleman offers details about his recent work with Stipe Miocic to help him prepare for Jon Jones and why the former UFC heavyweight champion will be the toughest test that Jones has ever faced in his career. In addition to his work with Miocic, Coleman also details his own path to sobriety following an arduous battle with addiction. We’ll also look back at UFC 294 from this past weekend where Islam Makhachev put an emphatic end to his rivalry with Alexander Volkanovski after he scored a stunning first-round knockout in the main event. Khamzat Chimaev also earned a razor-close victory over Kamaru Usman but what does that win say for his future in the middleweight division? Plus we look ahead at the boxing match between Tyson Fury and Francis Ngannou scheduled on Saturday and if the former UFC heavyweight champion has a realistic shot in this fight. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded to Ghosts in the Machine

available now, only from Audible. Back to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the Fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin and today, I must have joined, as always, by my regular co-host, the legend Matt Brown, but today we have a very special guest. He is

the former UFC heavyweight champion. the UFC Hall of Famer, the UFC legend and a longtime friend of ours. Mark the Hammer, Coleman. Colie, what's going on? What's up, buddy? I'm doing great, man. Thanks for having me on. Let's have some fucking fun.

You miss you, Damon. Pride Grand Prix champion. Tri-Grant Prix champion. What a fucking, let's start over. Let's start over, back that shit up. You've mentioned nothing. Olympics. Jesus Christ.

I know. I got to get on the list. I don't do it. I was badass in like four square and all. all that shit is a little kid, man. We'd have to have to have a whole different podcast. I'd have to list off all the accolades you got, Coley. Yeah, but it might as well get right to the point.

Number one accolade, by far, not even close is two and a half years sobriety. That deserves an applause. The game. Fucking beautiful. It's the most beautiful thing ever. I'm so at peace. I'm so happy. I'm Brown's counselor.

I'm a counselor now. I counsel people. Therapist. Therapist. And you've been up in Cleveland too, helping Stepe get ready for John Jones. Oh man, that's fucking neat. It's neat.

He's a big steepe this time around. Big 240, 245. I'm very, very impressed with his wrestling. And the reason I'm impressed is because my guy, Adam de Sabato, is the best coach in the business. He's up steep based wrestling tenfold in a short, short period of time. And if anybody can do it, it's steep. He hits very, very hard. But, hey, I'm concerned right away about John Bones Jones.

Being on the pictograms, lots of them. So, and it's going to be a factor. I mean, it could be a factor. But we'll see. It's going to be tough. It's going to be a great, great fight. It'll be a hell of a lot better than serial game versus John Bones-Jones. He can't wrestle.

Stipe is hard to take down. He's hard to take down. down he's gotten so much better. Everybody, everybody I talked to about that fight. Everyone's like, listen, we understand why Steppe's an underdog, and he's been out for a little while, and John Jones

is John Jones, but everyone said, Steppe is the toughest matchup for John Jones. I talked to Junior Dos Santos. He's like, no one has ever hit me hard in my career than Stevie Miochich. Francis and Gano picked Steepa to win. Francis just picked him to wins. I think Steve is going to beat him.

So he's got some people on his side that have some believe in Stephen Miotich to go out there and beat John Jones. Well, when you got power and superpower, it ups your chances quite a bit. So, yeah, a lot of people are picking Stapie. I won't be surprised if Steve A knocks him out, but that will be an epic moment. It'll be the winner of this fight, many people are saying the winner of this fights, the heavyweight go. I think so too

The winner of this fight can be called the heavyweight goat So I'm curious what are the odds Damon Probably about 3 to 1 Yeah right around 3 to 1 For John right now I just didn't guess

I don't do fight odds But I'm 3 to 1 That's It sounds about right Yeah It's about right around that I think it's like 3 plus 300 Something like that for John's what it was

I have to look and see what it is now But it's right around that So I get it I mean, I get it. John's, you know, John, I mean, listen, no one's going to discount what John Jones is. John Jones is a legend in his own right. He's an incredible fighter.

But one thing that keeps getting brought up, and this is what I said when John was going to heavyweight originally, I said, John's amazing. Like, no one's doubting that. John's an amazing fighter, incredible mixed martial artist, but it's different getting hit by heavyways. And, Cawley, you know that better than anybody. Like, it is different. It's a different world when you get hit with a heavyweight punch. Yes, sir, it is. That's what I'm talking about.

Jones, even at light heavyweight, he's had some real, real close fights at a lot, heavyweight. A lot of them. And Stipe is the best heavyweight. I've always said size matters. But to John Jones's credit, he grew into a very legit serious heavyweight, 250, 255. Took him a year to have, two years, which is what it takes. So he's up there now, but I expect Stepe probably to hit hard. than anybody he's ever faced. Yeah. Are you going up to New York with him? I'm going up to New York, not necessarily with him, but if I was, it'd be on the private jet. I'm so happy. He's taking my boy, Adam de Savido, respect for Adam de Saville. He'll be on that jet. I'm hoping Adam's in the corner because

he knows the wrestling part of the fight game as well as anybody but uh i'll be uh probably driving up there i like to drive and uh i'll be as close i got i got two tickets to the fucking fights i'm hoping they're real real close and uh um you'll hear me you it don't matter where i'm at it don't matter where i'm at you'll fucking hear me because it's gonna be it's the biggest fight the history of the UFC for me because I'm always fascinated with the big guys. I love

the heavyweight division and right on down, 205. You know what I mean? But, you know, I love the lightweights as well. But I've always said size matters and that's the toughest guy.

Whoever wins that is the toughest man in the planet mixed martial arts. Well, I know. I know you, because I know you got a lot of respect for John, too. I've seen you post about John as well. Like, I know it's nothing there.

Like, John's an incredible fighter in his own right. I know you got a lot of respect for John, too. Well, sure. I mean, he's undefeated UFC champion, and that's where he gets my respect. He's working hard on his sobriety. I respect that. You're going to have failures out there,

but he can be taken down. and I did it. I did it multiple times. UFC 100 on a Wednesday night before UFC 100 fight, I pretty much threw him around for about 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes, took him down 10 times to 1. And quite honestly, I'm not happy about that one. He hit me with a quick ankle pick.

I wasn't happy at all about that. but I did get right up. He couldn't hold me down. If we would have fought UFC 100, I was all my games, Stefan Bonner that night. I had a 77-day training camp, and I checked off.

I'm ready, and I didn't do that very often in my career, but John Jones took you down once, though? John Jones. That's pretty impressive. How many times did you be taking down your life? Yeah, not many, but... Not many.

It was a fluke. no i'll tell you what i was in bad position man just a quick little uh he had the ankle pick nice athletic very athletic he was long as fucking uh well it didn't happen again you know what i mean so he did get right up but no uh he don't like to admit it so he don't like this story at all one time i ran into him he brought up that day he brought up that night and his version is not my version, well, I fucking tell you what, I don't have to bullshit or lie about my stories, but he don't remember me rag-dowling him, but I did. It bothers him. You know, it's funny. I like, I like it. Things used to bother me, too, but he'll get up on Instagram and, and, and, because I, I, when

he got taken down by who's that guy that took him down with ease, the column, no, uh, the wrestler. Gabe Snyder problems, the American guy. Oh, there was an Instagram video where this guy took him down with ease in about five second, 10 second span, and I got on their accommodated levels to this game. Jaden Cox, that's what you're talking about. Jaden Cox. Jaden Cox School. Jaden Cox School with a lot of people.

He went like a couple of years without ever getting scored on once, you know, and I believe it. You know what I mean? Because people don't understand that. It's true. but shit what was I talking about oh Jones I commented about that

he I said he said yeah Coleman like I would rag down you right now and I said yes but you no I didn't say yes I didn't admit to that

I'd give that motherfucker a hell of a five minute war and if my hip stayed in I think I'd fucking be leading on score cards so now how So now how do you compare Steve Bays wrestling? You've been up here in Cleveland watching work with that?

I know Adam, of course. Adam, Adam, great guy, great coach. How would you compare Steve Bays wrestling right now? Like I said, it got better rapidly. If you would have had to ask me two months ago, there was concerns. But Adam, Adam tightened it up, hold it together. And I'm very important.

dress with his, uh, his wrestling. I think I could still take him down, though. No, he, he, uh, he, he, he, he's going really, really hard, straight wrestling, positioning wrestling, and puts him in positions. And, and, and he, he goes hard and he's improved. He's improved. It's going to be hard to take him down. And from what I've seen, if he does,

when he is on his back, he's pretty damn hard to hold down. So I think we'll be all right. It's going to be an interesting fight. I think it's going to be on the feet. A lot of it's going to take place on the feet for sure. And keep your hands up, fellas. Well, like Cibay a lot if this fight stays on the feet. I can tell you that much.

Well, I mean... It stays on the feet. I could be wrong. That's how much better... Hey, John Jones' wrestler is fantastic. You know, but these guys that Steve Bays going with right now are very, very, very good wrestlers, and he's doing very well.

So Jones can prove me wrong. I think Steve Bess should be able to, I'm not saying he's not going to get taken down, but it's not going to be all day. Yeah. Well, Matt, you know striking better than just about anybody. Like, if it stays on the feet, that's a danger. night for John Jones. Like that's not where he wants this fight. Because that's, like, he's not a bad

striker. John Jones isn't a bad striker. But as we talk about it, it only takes one in heavyweight. He got hit. That's the one thing we say about John. He did get hit, you know, at light heavyweight. It looked like he didn't get hit at light heavyweight. You get hit one time good by Stevie Miochich in heavyweight. You're not getting back up again. Yes. And Steve A's got some really, really good fundamentals. And that goes so far, especially when you're fighting a guy like John Jones. And if you look at John Jones' past fights, where do you have the most trouble with guys that were big and long as him, right? Those shorter guys, I mean, he had some trouble with a couple of those guys, but Gustafsson was the number one trouble for John Jones, right? A lot of people would argue that Gustafsson won that first fight, and I think there's a good argument to be made there.

But the number one thing was John had never felt somebody as long as him before. and steepe not only has that link but John ain't been hit at heavy weight yet right Cyril Gahn didn't even hit him yeah maybe in practice yeah but we all know practice ain't fighting unless you're fighting me in Bradford but John like John like that's the thing about

like John and John fought Cyril very smart like because Cyril Gahn's a really good striker but Cyril Gond has no ground game. Like he has no, he got, he got, he got manhandled by Francis and Gano on the ground. I don't think anyone's going to tell you that Francis and Gondon is a world class wrestler. He knew, he knew the path at least resistance. And that's what makes John Jones so good. He knew he couldn't just stand out there and trade strikes with Surreal gone. So he went out there and took him down and beat him.

A hard time. A hard time with the argument that the winner is the greatest of all time heavyweight. Like John hasn't done much of heavyweight. He's the greatest of all time fighter, period. Yeah. But heavyweight, if you're going to narrow it down just a heavyweight? Yeah, I don't know it's premature. It's premature,

but you just combined, uh, I mean, I don't know, yeah. I mean, I think Steve,

I didn't figure, I didn't figure, Brown would throw it out there. I just thrown out there. He whooped DC a couple of times, but not a heavyweight. Yeah,

I got you. It's different. We'll see. If Steve A, if Steve baby, he's going to be fucking huge. Well, Steve A's the greatest heavy weight.

Yeah, I was going to say, if Steve baby, I mean, Steve A, Stepe beats Jones, I think, and I know Jones isn't, as, as you said, yeah, like any, any debate people had about whether it's Stepe or Fador, and I love Fador, I don't want to make this, not a knock on Fador, but like, if Steepey can go out and beat John Jones, I think that settles the debate, because we all know how good John Jones is. I don't care what good John Jones is, like that guy, I agree with Matt. Greatest of all time, my opinion. greatest fighter, greatest mixed martial artist of all time is John Jones. If Steepie can go out there and beat that guy and I don't care if it's a five-round decision or first-round knockout, I think that cements the end of the discussion for me that Steve-Bes-the-Gri-Way.

I love Fiedor. I mean, I absolutely love Fadour. He's a great fighter, obviously. But I think Stiepe doing that puts him a notch above, in my opinion. Yeah, I don't know. There's certainly an argument there between Fadour and Stipe for greatest heavyweight, even now. But I'm right there with you. He goes out and beats John Jones.

Man, that's hard to top that, man. biggest fight ever. Madison Square Garden. Man, pressure. I would love to feel this pressure. What a beautiful night for both these guys. Oh my God, I can't imagine. It's going to be amazing. I can imagine. It's going to be a good night. Like I said, I think Steve A is going to, I think Steve A is going to present problems that John hasn't seen before in heavyweight. I mean, obviously not heavyway, but just in general because when when John was talking about fighting for, Francis and Gano, my biggest thing the whole time was, if Francis hits him, you know, that's a

game changer. You only need one at heavyweight. You'll need one shot and it changes everything. And Steve Bays got that same kind of power. If Francis hits anybody, it's a game changer. Well, yeah, absolutely. But I'm saying that heavyweight. But that's actually something Tyson Fury.

We'll talk about Francis and Ganon and Tyson Fury in a second, but something that Tyson Fury said, I saw I did an interview today and somebody asked him about that. Like, how do you compare Francis' power to Deonté Wild? And he's like, well, listen, when you're in heavyweight, you're over 220 pounds, everyone hits hard. He's like, it's not like, you know, I was like, this guy hits one percent hard than the other guy. You get hit really good at heavyweight. It doesn't matter who hits you. You're going down.

And he's like, it's, you know, Francis connects clean. It doesn't mean he hit harder in Deonti Wilder. It just means he hit me with a good shot and he's a freaking heavyweight. And I was like, yeah, that's kind of truly. Heavyweight's hard. Me too. Easy and hard. Anyway,

it's it hard. I mean, that's the danger. And I just, that's the one day I was questioned about it. I know I was, I was part with Coleman the other day. And this guy's going nice,

going light, going easy. But God damn. It's like, it's like a train moving at fucking five miles an hour. It's still a fucking train, you know? Matt was telling me,

Matt was telling me. Matt was telling me about, what were we talking about you were talking about Coley hitting pads up there? You're like, good God. He's like, this guy still has some incredible power. This guy could have knocked out every single person he ever fought. No. But all I want to do is fucking double-edged people. No, it was, I didn't.

What the deal was is I knew how long it took me to get great at wrestling. and I didn't think I had time to get great at stand-up, so I didn't focus on it, because I just didn't think it was possible, so that wasn't the game plan. But it makes me sick to my stomach, because, yes, I think I knock everybody out because my footwork would have been amazing.

And then, yeah, my power's sick. It's never, never been questioned. But I just didn't think I had time to do it. And now I find out I've been watching Brown for the last four years from the sidelines, watching, watching like a hawk studying and learning. And now January 1st set me free. I walked away from this shit because I knew I couldn't, I knew I couldn't just exercise, like, you know, skip rope. And that's it. You know, I knew I was going to have to do something.

with because I knew I was going to get really good at it and I was going to want show off you know what I mean I'm a fucking show off you know so and then and and that's what I'm doing so it's fun I love I love how it feels to hit somebody hard especially when it's the body because you know you don't feel so bad but I don't love getting hit. I mean. Who does? Who really enjoys getting hit?

I mean, let's be honest. Because it makes you feel, I don't mind it. No, I don't mind it. I'm saying I just, I like to be able to move my head. You know what I mean? Because if you get hit, that means you didn't move your head. So, you know, but I'd rather do the head and then get hit. But it's so fun.

I wake up every day and live for it. Live for just exercise. You know, I've been up since 7 a.m. this morning, and the first break I took it all today was right now, sitting down and do this. And I haven't eaten all day. I fast every day. So I'm just truly so excited when this interview is over. I'm going to stand up and I'm going to feel how sore my legs are. And they're going to be really, really, really sore. And I love it. And then I'm going to jump in the car. And probably had to B-Dubs because they cook in tall oil. I'm going to get me a burger. Six wings. Well done because I like to eat the bones. I eat the bones.

The bones got the best flavor in it. If it was crispy enough, you can do it. And I get the cheese curse. That's complete carnivore diet. And then the rest of the night, I'll eat the liver king bars, probably four or five of them. I couldn't eat 20 of them, but I'm only allowed five with the creatine that's in it. Cretine is awesome for you, right, Brown?

Yes, sir. Brown's a big fan of creatine. I'm a big fan of it. And then hopefully that would be it because it don't, well, plus I drink about four of liver king's protein shakes a day. So that right there in itself, I'll lose. if I stay on just that amount of food, even though I'm working out 12 hours a fucking day, I could eat five times that much,

and sometimes I'll snap and I'll go ahead and grab another meal or I'll cook a, I'll throw some, my favorite snack is grief yogurt with some fresh vegetables, I mean, fresh fruit, and then some keto granite. and then a little bit of expensive peanut butter. Some of the real expensive good peanut butter.

And then the natural peanut butter. Yeah, yeah, the natural peanut butter. Then I'll crunch up a couple liver king bars. And then. Why don't you brought me to liver king bars? That's about it. Well, I will. I mean, shit.

I am stingy with them. They only give me like four a day. And I run out. I run out way before the next shipment's coming, and it's like horrible for like five days or even sometimes a whole month, man. Jesus Christ. Sometimes, you know, sometimes I average 12 a day easy for, and they were gone. I said, I need more. They can't give you more. It's not good for you. But. And then I mix that shit together. And somebody I think you under control. Yeah, they got accountability. That's a big word in my life right now. My, my, my, I love. Discipline now. Discipline today. Discipline now. I'm impressed with myself how disciplined I am. Man, if I had this kind of wisdom and shit, active recovery, active recovery walking and all that stuff, that's something that I missed out on back in my career. I was all about five. hours of intense, intense working out and get off my feet in between and recover like that. That's what I did around the clock. It was boring.

It was miserable. But it could have been replaced with so much, so much active recovery, walking, this and that. It would have made me 100 times better. So, you know, that's funny you said. I started doing that my last camp. I would start at the end of the day, just before I go to sleep, I go take a one. walk, no matter how fucking tired I was, it'd be exhausted,

wore out from the day, get kicked in the legs in the body, and just wore out, bruised up, and do that. I just walk down to the park, you know, and just shake it out a little bit, get the blood flowing. It goes a long way, which we need to get you up in the gym.

Damon, look at what Coleman's done. Just keep going. Walking is much more than what he just said. Walking is probably one of the greatest exercises in the world you can do. You can, you can turn it up. You can walk backwards. You can walk sideways. You can walk forward when you're tired, because you're going to get tired walking back. Because you're

going to get tired walking sideways. You walk on your toes. Then if you really want to turn it up, you carry five pound egg weights in your hands. And it just all adds up. You start doing the shadow boxing. Walking is a way of life. I literally probably would not be exaggerating if I said I I walk 20 miles today not just walking of course all the shit I just said to you I can't wait to stand up and see how it feels

They say a lot of the Europeans are way healthier because they walk a lot I hear that all the time And America is the only place Well maybe America and Canada is the only place But we just drive everywhere No one fucking walks anywhere I was the worst man

I was the hardest training athlete In my mind That a person could be but I wouldn't even walk to the fucking car you know I wouldn't even walk out to the car I was just so lazy until I got to the gym but no I

now I don't I have patience I I never had any patience my whole life I always I was like why me you know why fucking me no patience oh fuck

now I can do anything like go to the airport I don't care if the plane's delayed fuck it I can just walk walk walk and and I have the discipline

that walk by I love staring at food looking at food and saying no you know what I mean because hey I'm out there putting my life on the line

on Instagram so people I got laughed at for a long long time it was it was and I because I had the courage to take my shirt off when I was 280 pounds, hadn't done nothing in 12 years,

and I was shadow boxing looking real slow. But I didn't care. I mean, for once in my life, I used to care about what everybody thought about me always. I'd walk into a room, social anxiety, everybody staring at me all that shit. Nobody gave a fuck, Coleman. But once you realize nobody really gives this shit,

that's the best thing you could ever learn. And now I have no fear and I don't care about anything and I would do anything. But I got off track. What was like, what would we tell? Well, I thought it's pretty cool. It'd be especially, I know, Damon, we have a lot of the old listeners from our old show back in the day. They still listen. I still get replies on Twitter and stuff every now and then about it.

They could probably hear through the podcast through just the audio without even watching just the change. in my grandpa's life favorite. You know, like, I said kind of funny, but like, you look, the dude, like, you know, went from a piece of shit. Yeah, man, I crawled out. I crawled out of the champion. Yeah, I mean, no, I mean,

Ray Brown was a big part of my recovery. But I crawled out of, I can't, I live in an extent, to stay hotel. And I, and I, I didn't really let nobody know where I was at. And the ones that did know, they couldn't get in without a key. So nobody had ever been in my room. It was, I was in there for over a year.

And, uh, right down the street. I never been in there. No, I didn't, nobody was loud over there. You know what I mean? It was. You didn't let the maid in there. I didn't let the maids in there. I talked to the, I told them fuckers.

I'm taking over this room. Hey, after you're there for a month, they got evict you, man. So they play hard. At first, they threatened to, you know, beat me, but beat it out, get out. But it was Jerry Springer. It was worse than the Jerry Springer Hotel. It was the, I finally had the courage to leave my ex-ex girl, my mother, my daughter. I finally had the courage.

I waited until she turned five years old so she could talk to me, man, because I knew it was going to be, I knew it was going to be a disaster. And that was a whole fucking other story. But I drove down the road and I pulled in this fucking Wood Spring Suites Hotel. And it was the nastiest, most disgusting, dirtiest, $30 a night hotel you could ever imagine. Right on the west side,

the motherfucking helicopter, I swear, was flying above that place three to five times a week, man. And, but I fit right in. I mean, I was the big star in there. I mean, I was a star at the hotel. But I just, you know, I didn't know how bad it was. You know, I thought everything was okay. I mean, I thought everything was okay.

It's going to get better. Everything's going to get better eventually soon. it was really all about not being able to see my daughter but I made it a lot worse because I let it just destroy me this narcissistic woman and ran me all the way down

to fucking very, very lucky to be here many, many times over as far as nine lives. But my partner, West Sims, you know, he was one of the few guys that I talked to during this whole fucking duration. I talked to Brown quite a bit, but I, you know, I didn't talk to him.

I didn't tell him any. You become a complete liar. I mean, everything you do and say is pretty much a lie because it is. Or you avoid it, but that means you're lying. How you doing? Brown would say, how you doing, doing good, you know, doing good.

but West Sims finally had the courage and he don't have no problems getting in places if he wants in. So he got in, next thing you know, he's knocking on my bedroom fucking door about 10 p.m. And this is like towards the very end. And it gradually got worse. I mean, I had it in control. You know, I mean, I was one of those kind of how many beers I got, not because it was financially. because I didn't want to die. I mean, I wanted to keep it in check and keep it.

But, you know, there was bad times. So then times where it got worse, and this was one of them, thank God that, you know, Simps knocked on the door. He walked in. What he's seen is something that he's never, ever seen in his life. My room was probably filled with at least,

you know, 1,000 to 10,000 empty. beer cans, empty beer cans just scattered everywhere. The room was a disaster. Nobody's been in there except me, you know, believe it or not, sometimes I would let my daughters come in there late at night because we were out drinking together. And they would certainly, when they woke up at 5 a.m., they would scram the hell out of there real quick. But it was as bad as I can, can't. didn't say it was disgusting i had i didn't i didn't shower i didn't shave i didn't care i wasn't looking to impress anybody you know just just just throw a sweatshirt on some sweatpants put a fucking hat on and go you know i didn't give a fuck i wasn't going to be hugging anybody

you know it is funny damon i don't think you know this was the direction we were looking for the podcast, but when I, when I kind of, what this reminds me a little bit of was, remember the post fight with Volcanovsky last weekend and he talked about how he had to take this fight because he was in, I don't know, it sounded like he said he was in kind of a bad spot, right? Like he needs that purpose. Yeah. Right? He needed something.

Yeah. So he took the fight regardless. And I don't know if people understand the struggle. You know, and I hate making it sound like it's a struggle. Like our fucking lives are so hard being fighters and shit. Like, we choose this. And it's a, you know, it's a great life, to be honest, you know. But I don't know if people understand when, you know, when you're at the end or past the end, you know,

Coleman, I'm sure, could talk a lot more about it than me. He's been there, right? Like when you don't have nothing to look forward to, you don't have that big show no more. You don't have a contract to sign. You're not scared of, you know, a guy to training to fucking murder you tomorrow or in a couple weeks or whatever. You don't know what the fuck you're doing here is for. You're like, what the fuck am I waking up for?

And I think that's what Volcanowski was kind of getting at. And I think it's sort of similar to what put Coleman to where he was. Well, I tell me what you did. I didn't think my career was over. didn't believe my career was over. I got cut from the UFC. I was 44 years old, but in my mind, a good training camp away for being the best in the fuck of world.

I mean, and quite honestly, well, I think I was. I mean, I was close. I could get anybody a good fight with a good training camp, but I never had any good training camps. But then I went to the Ultimate Fighter Show

and I coached at Tough 19, B.J. team. And life was good, man. I wasn't retired. I just had some time off. I loved it, man. I had some fucking time off to have some fun. I don't know where I'm going to get my next job. There was no other leagues, but I'll fight a fight somewhere. My hips were really, really bad. They were in pain. But if I got therapy, I could take it. But I went to Tough 19. I trained my, I got clean in Vegas. I always got sober going to Vegas. Vegas. With Stays of Vegas, you know, no, I went to Vegas. I stayed 10 weeks sober,

and then I came home, and this was, this is what, this is the whole thing. I'm going to keep training, but then I'm doing a stretch. The legs are split very wide. I got my hands down on the floor. And when I came back up, my leg buckled in a little bit, and the hip, popped out the side door and that was it, man. That was the most traumatic pain. You can ever imagine, well, this happened six times over a two, three months period. And my surgeon just kept telling me I was breaking protocol. But, no, I was living in complete fear. I was terrified of everything and everybody. I didn't even want to move. And finally, the surgeon agreed to go in and cut me open.

And when he cut me open, it was septically infected. So it was close to death right there. So instead of just changing the ball and socket, he took the hip out, put a temporary one in. I was on a pick line for four or five months. And he put the permanent one in. And by that time, the other one needed replaced. So then I had two hips, but the career was over.

And then I got a girl pregnant, had a kid was beat down so basically uh uh i just walked away entirely i didn't train one time i just completely stopped exercising because i knew if i did i wouldn't want to fight and but that i never got over that six times that fucker popped out uh i'm a tough son of a bitch but I couldn't take the pain, man. I couldn't take the pain. And that set me down the spiral, and then the woman added to it,

booze made me feel good. Booze took away all the pain. I liked the way it made me feel. And I had nobody holding me accountable. Accountability is one of the biggest words out there. Nobody held Mark Coleman accountable because nobody could. you know, nobody. And then it just got worse or worse.

West Sims came in. Finally, I checked into rehab. It's the greatest fucking choice I ever made. And they taught me, they gave me the skills, how to live life sober, and I saved my fucking life. And here I am. And me and Brown, as soon as my head peels up,

we got a five-minute round of sparring before I die. Only five? It's one five. I need more to five, bro. He needs more and five. I love hearing that about West Sims. Actually, Matt was talking about, we were talking about West Sims not that long ago because I know Wes.

It's been a couple years, so I've seen him, but I run into him every now and again, and Matt was talking about how good Wes is doing. I love hearing that. The West was there for you and stepped in and did what he had to do. I love Wes. I don't see him that often anymore, but I know I hear he's doing well. No, Wes is actually doing really well.

You know, his whole public persona, It's very different than he is in real life. And that's a smart son of a bitch right there, man. He's going to tell you a lot about him. He's doing a lot of good things. Brilliant as a fighter with a not very limited skills, super, super long, super farm boy strong, like one of the strongest guys, you know, there is.

He did not let, I never really trained him. He wouldn't let me train him. I trained him for a couple weeks, and that was it, man. We was at each other's throat, and we just became best friends, and I helped manage him. I helped get him famous, but he, and he talked a good game on the mic, really, but now he's one of the most disciplined, dedicated businessman I know out there, and he's successful in so many ways.

and I used to call him my secretary. I gave my nickname as West the Secretary Sims, but really he's become my mentor in many, many, many ways in life. And he's a killer, a savage. He's very successful, good, kind, kind man would help anybody. He's helped me many times, but he's going to be very financially successful here. He is right now, but he just keeps climbing. And I'm glad to have him a friend because if I ever had to call somebody,

Wes would take the call. Can I ask, Colin, I'm curious, when Wes, West comes in that room, that Wood Springs suite through him, when he walks in there, what does he say to you? You know, he asks me, he goes, well, he goes, well, what are you trying to do, kill yourself? And, uh, you know, I said no, but I really just don't care. And, uh, that was it. But then he, then he had to convince me. I said, no, many times I'm not ready to check into rehab. I'm not going to rehab today. But then my, my alcoholic mind, he, he said,

we're going to go to the hospital. And, uh, I liked hospitals because they give you fucking drugs in there. And I said, all right, I go to the hospital. I wanted to, I wanted to get off alcohol. I wanted to get off, but I didn't want it bad enough. But I knew in there, I got the detox for a week, but they would still give me the clonopin, the painkillers and all that shit. So for a week, I got off the alcohol. Then we got out. And I said, all right, you know, let's go to my parents' house. I wanted to see my mom and dad, most important, my kids and my mom and dad, you know, critical to me. But then I said, I'm going to stay here for a couple of nights. Then I'll check into rehab. And that was not an option. No more, no more me making the calls,

accountability. And that's not an option. We're going to go see your mom and dad for a few hours. And then I already got you a place lined up, secret recovery in Columbus, Ohio. And it was truly a god, sent. It was so fucking amazing. I didn't check into a celebrity rehab. I checked into a regular normal person and

you had a little bit of everybody in there. I knew immediately that I fucking belonged. I knew immediately that I fit in and I belonged and I became obsessed with the

learning about alcoholism and drug addiction and didn't want hell of a job. I'm pretty, I'm very, very proud of, I keep track of tabs of people that in, and there's only like 5% of the people that make it that give rehab a try. That's on five measly percent. But I still have like 30 or so friends from that five months that I was. in there. I still have 30 people that have made it. I feel like I really, I feel good

that I help these guys motivated them to get through it. And now I still do it daily. It's all about giving back. That's what it's all about. You, it works if you work it. And you know,

I have just daily, I have messages that I send to new people, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. I just get them, you know, I help them. Whatever they need, I help them as best I can. But I don't beat around the fucking bush.

It's real simple. I tell people I'll help them. But the only advice is you're an alcoholic. You need to check into rehab. It's the only chance you have. That's it. I said, you want my help? I'll help you get in a rehab center.

But it's it. And then even if you do check in, it's a small, small percentage. It's crazy. I'm fucking so blessed. I'm so fucking blessed. And why are you one of the five percent? I've always been one of the five percent.

Just about everything. The Lord is my man. He's always with me. He's got big plans for me. He's not done with me. He's got plans for me. I got a lot. My platform is so big.

I need to be more business-like, more aggressive. I don't like doing anything, but I love fighting. Yeah, I mean. And now I'm getting paid to fucking exercise and fucking get ripped. You know, what's it called? What's everybody's favorite word? Jacks, right?

Shats. I love it. So what was the difference between, like, what, only 5% of people made it? Yeah. What's the difference between those 5%? What do they do it differently? What's the separator there?

There's got to be something. I don't, I mean, I mean, no. This is only 5% of people actually want it when they go in. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's just like a cancer, man. It's hard to be. It's hard to be, bro.

It's just hard to be. And it don't discriminate. But I was in that, I was in that place. I made so many long-term friends and little things I remember. I remember being there 30th day in there, man. The fog was fucking still bare. just everywhere. I still was, I don't even remember checking in the place.

They said I talked for three hours. They said, hey, the biggest ego or I had the biggest pride. He said, you had more pride than any fucking human being alive when you checked in here. This whole thing, I said, I don't remember

checking in with you. You talked about fighting for three hours. That's it. But 30 days in, this chick looks at me. She goes how's it going, Mark? I said, man, everything's really good, man. It's just like really good.

I'm just, and this is how I was all the time. I'm like, you know, I just, I know something really bad is going to have it soon. You know, I just wondered when it's going to go south. And she said, she said, well, hey, Mark, maybe it will never will. And I'm like, oh. And that's the attitude I take. on everything. I accept everything

that happens to me as it was supposed to happen. And that's amazing. Like, I just blew my hip out twice here in the last two weeks. It happened last Sunday. It was, it was 24 hours

of just pure hell. Four hours I was on the ground where I couldn't move. I couldn't get to my phone. I was calling out for help. But, you know, I didn't say why me once, man. I just said, you know, to my higher power, I said, let's go.

Let's fucking, let's figure out how to get through this. So, you know, I started, I grabbed my head a little weight there. I started doing bicep girls. I mean, why waste some time? That's what you know you're a true savage right there. That's a fucking soldier, God, right? That is a savage right there. You're like, you know what?

I can't get out, but I still do guys a girl. And for an hour, like, every, like, nonstop, because I didn't want to miss somebody walking by, so I had to keep going, keep going, keep going. Nothing, because I was right by the window. And then after an hour, I was so fucking war out, man. My throat was war out. But I had to stay in one position, man.

I was just, and I had been on a 48-hour fast, and 48-hour I was up for 48 hours because I did some commentary out of time. for the slap fight contest. We could talk about that. That was epic. But I was out of town. I flew, but I don't let a plane keep me from exercising. You know what I mean?

But so I was up and then, bam, down for four hours. Then finally somebody heard me and said, okay, so they called the ambulance, said, well, he's been up there yelling for two hours. I couldn't believe. I said, what the fuck, man? They waited two hours. they asked me what was wrong. And then the ambulance came and that was like, oh, my God.

Just like, oh, they had to scoop me up. And I was just, oh, shit. We get to the hospital, took some painkillers. It cut the edge a little bit. But they took me into the room. They called Twilight Zone. They put me half awake, half asleep. And they grabbed my fucking leg and try to get it back in.

tried to work it back in. I was screaming in pain, and people do sometimes yell and scream, but you're not supposed to remember it, but I remembered the whole fucking thing. But I did think it only took like five minutes. I only thought they were doing it for five minutes, but my daughter was a nurse in the other room,

and she said they were trying for 30 minutes to get it back in. And then they took me back to my room, they were going to try it again five hours later. Turns out they couldn't do it again for like 15 hours. So 2 o'clock the afternoon the next day, they finally pulled me all the way to sleep, got it back in. And hallelujah, I'm fucking, I'm so much of a better man. That that ordeal was probably one of the toughest things I've ever been through my life,

but I got through that bitch. And I didn't, oh, then I couldn't wait to eat, man. It was the best delicious. B-dubs I ever had B-dubs, burger, wings, and cheese curds, man. Both. With the bones, bone marrow, tallow, bone marrow. How's the hip doing now? It's pretty good, but I just...

Heartbacking, right? Well, it's getting less and less nerve right. It was terrifying, just terrifying, just the good, but the growing was, so fucking sore that I would literally have to grab my leg to get into the car to pick it up, moving in the car, and set it back out this all week long. But I kept, you know, I kept exercise and nonstop. I never stopped. And now today was the first day that I'm back to doing my, I do all kinds of yoga poses, but I cut a lot of them out because two times, both times that happened, I was doing a fucking stretches, man.

man. It's a sickening, man. But today's the first day I got back to doing that one straight down squat. But I do this to straight down squat parallel. You're in the back good today too? Yeah, a little bit, but it was scary.

It was any good, though. A little bit. Hitting the bag, doing a walks. Yeah, yeah, I'm doing just about everything. I mean, I got to go see my surgeon, and I'm kind of hopeful that they're just going to give me a whole new hip replacement because the recovery is fucking 30 days.

But, uh, that's it, huh? 60 days. I'll do it in 10. But, uh, all they got what they call is a revision. They got to do some kind of revision to it because it's already popped out twice. So I broke the seal or something like that. So I got to be really, really careful. But, uh, I just refuse to stop down.

I, I can't sleep at night unless I fucking burnt. I have no idea how many calories I'm burning in a day. I would literally like to know. I mean, I'd be curious to figure out. How many you figure there, Brown? We have to get you one of those trackers. Yeah, I'll turn it up that day. Putting in the work.

I saw a marathon day. Today is a marathon day because I got up at seven and, well, I didn't stop here until. Well, we've been on here about 45. Yeah, about 45 minutes, yeah. Yeah, so I, I, yeah. Yeah, so I up at seven. So I got 13 hours in without a break. I got this mouthpiece.

This is my, I just keep adding things to my, my, of things that I can do. I just rotate what I work my toes. I train my feet hard. I train my hands real hard now. My hands and my forearm grip, I found out are probably my weakest fucking link. So I started doing the barbarian walk with the kettle. bells. All I had was the kettle bells. The Barberia Walk is a vest ankle weights in the, in the kettlebells and pulling a sled. It's the toughest mile you can never go through,

which I got to step it up. You know, I haven't been doing this, but I'm going to be, when I go visit Liver King, I'm going to be doing it, you know, with him for a couple weeks. He's going to embarrass me, but just grabbing the kettle bells, I couldn't even want. I mean, I had to sit him down every fucking, every tentable mile. and re-gripping shit. So I realized my feet. How heavy kettlebells you carry? They were only 35 pounds, Brown.

That's heavy, bro. Well, I know, but the, well, I'm carried for a mile. That's fucking heavy. No, I know, but a tenth of a mile had to sit down. Well, hey, look, I'm hard. I'm hard on myself. I mean, it ain't horrible. It ain't embarrassing, but now I heard liver king's 70-pound kettlebells for a mile.

that intimidated because I only did 35 and I still had to of course you're going to have to take breaks I think but I can't imagine being able to walk a whole mile without taking them one fucking 70 pounds that'd be six Matt are you doing Matt are you doing the barbarian walks what's going on over there at the immortal martial arts center are you doing the barbarian? Oh we do them for a quarter mile as well used to do them at west side all the time we carried every fucking thing you can imagine well they would put

whatever the most awkward type of shit they could come up yeah Westside. Liver King, he learned from West Side. That's where he got his shit from. I do it with Dustin all the time now. I would max effort guys. We did,

we pushed the truck half a mile the other day. That's dumb of a bitch. Going one way wasn't that bad, but we didn't realize it looked like a flat ground. But when you're going down to truck, well, when you turn around

and down back, you don't realize that it ain't flat. Because you were like, damn, that was easy going this way. And now you can't get it going the other way. And that was the most miserable...

You're pushing an actual truck? I love that shit. I love that shit, brown. I love it, bro. Fuck, that's what I did. I was way ahead of my time. I didn't learn it from everybody. I just pushed my motherfucking car.

That's one of the best workouts there is, it was horrible. Pushing around a motherfucker block. Pushing a truck. He's got that 188, steel frame fucking pickup truck the bearings are shot

you know what I mean so it ain't rolling like Mercedes or anything you know that's the old school that's the old school truck right there when you really got to put a lot of effort into that one you know it ain't moving without it

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Conditions apply. But you talked about that, Matt. You said, like, talking about the Volcanozky thing, like, finding that purpose. Like, it's true. I know we've talked about that before with, like, fighters retiring. Like, there's a lot of different reasons why it's hard for fighters to retire, but I imagine that. If you really drill it down to, that's probably going to be number one.

Because you put your whole life into it. You put your whole life into something. And the average, the average person, isn't retiring for what they love to do at 40 or 42 or 43? You know what I mean? Like the average person can do. Like I love what I do. I don't have to stop what I do.

Nobody is. Well, that's what the first thing I always say is we should get rid of the word retiring, you know, because there's about five guys that are retiring. You know, Connor, maybe John Jones and GSP. Everybody else has to find a. way to make money. Yeah. But I mean, we're fighting, but I'm saying like with fighting, though, like when you

when fighting gets taken away from you, that's hard because it is your purpose. Like, that is what you do. So we have to find a new way to make money and that shit the way we've been, for me for instance, I've been doing for 20 years and, you know, 15 in the UFC.

That's the way that I've made all my money, live a lifestyle I want to live. Fuck, yeah, Brownie. And now I got... That's life ever. And then, now, I move on to the next life, and it's like, what kind of purpose am I going to find that can even compare in any fucking sense to the shit that I've been doing for 15 years? He'll find it, though. You're going to find it, Brownie. Well, I'm going to find it. Yeah, I'm working on it. But, you know, it's, I get where he's coming from.

It's like, you know, you talk about all this noble, great shit about giving back, helping others and all this. but there ain't nothing that compares to someone to sign on that dotted line. The fucking feeling that you get, there ain't no feeling like it. So let me ask you this past weekend, like watching what Volcanozky goes through. I mean, obviously, like not ideal circumstances to fight a guy like Islam Ocachev on 11 days notice. But you go in there and I was starting to believe it a little bit. I was like, man, Volcanowski's an animal. Like, I feel like he's been training.

He's ready. And then disaster strike. Islam goes out there as the perfect game plan sets up that head kick and knocks him out. It's a debt. Like that's the reality of this sport, man. It is the highest to highs, the lowest of lows. Yeah. I mean, I said it, I think, you know, I said it on the podcast last week.

Just coming in on that short of notice against that high level of guys, your margin of error is already so thin when you're going against guys at high level. And that's why I was moved. Did you pick the most? Did you pick it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I thought it was easy pick.

Yeah. Easy pick. Yeah, yeah, brother. But what I was really impressed with was Usman. We had the debate. We were talking about who has a better chance. And I said Usman. You better back to you.

I said Usman. Exposed the other chance. But Usman. Disposed him. Maybe exposed a little bit or maybe a lot of people are saying, Kamaya wasn't everything we thought he was. I say Usman's more than we thought he was. You know it's funny?

That son of a bitch got the job done. Yeah. The new weight class. If he had six weeks, if he had six weeks, he wins that fight. Well, here's the thing about it. Here's what's funny about it. Everyone talks about, like, you know what I'm saying. They only had 11 days.

I don't think the 11 days hurt Camaro. I think the time. I think if he would have had another round, I don't know that Homzai would have made it because he was like. Crazy, man. You go, you go to more rounds. I do think the short notice had a little bit to do with it because he didn't, he could have spent six weeks

that first round was the big loser for him. If he'd been working on his wrestling for six weeks to prepare for Kamaya, that first round may not have been so bad, for instance. It might have been like the second round of the third round. I thought it was a draw. I scored the draw. I thought he won the rounds two and three.

I did. That's nothing against Jamiya, but I thought he won rounds two and three. I didn't see the fight, so I can't talk about it. So I thought, I hear people say he dominated. Now I hear you, I mean, I respect Brown.

He didn't dominate. No, no, I didn't say anything because my fucking ESPN stream that I paid 80 bucks for instead of illegally streaming it, which would have worked great and I could have done, was fucking up the whole goddamn Usman fight. And it was cutting out every about 30 seconds and messing up. So I didn't really get a clear picture of that fight. but every time it started working, Usman was the one in charge.

I mean, it wasn't. I'll tell you. I'll tell you, like the first round was a 10-8. Like, it was. Like, Chimaev dominated him in the first round. But then, and it wasn't like the second and third were blowouts, but he definitely did more damage on the feet.

He landed better punches. And when, like, basically, Chameh got the win based on the third round late in the fight about a minute left. You got a take down. And I didn't agree with it because he didn't really do anything with it. He took him. I don't win his fight. He took him down, but he was, you could tell he was tired.

You know, you could tell he was starting to run out of gas a little bit. And Oosman obviously was, you know, he just didn't get up. Like, that was really how it ended and he won the fight. But I thought it was a draw. I scored it was a draw. I said, I thought. A lot of pressure. Yeah, but Oussman's a ton of pressure.

We said this last week, Matt, about the whole Leon Edwards thing. I said, I hate it when a guy wins and we got to diminish the other guy to make it, you know, to make it better. Like, Kamar's lost the step. that Kamar lost the step. I think Leon Edwards is a badass and he won and I think Kamar approved that. On 11 days notice he just pushed Tom Zachamai to the point where, you know, people are like,

wow, that was a draw. Like that's how close it was. The first thing I thought was not not, I hate him and may math. But dude, how much does that say about Leon Edwards? Because he dominated Usman. Yeah. I mean, Leon, dude, Leon's a bad dude. Ponsat walks around

at fucking 220 pounds, I bet. Oh, yeah. I would bet the same. He's big. At least 210. And, you know, who's been, you know, that's 20 pounds, 10 pounds, 15 pounds, people don't get how much that is. It's like, like, tear you a 10-pound weight, fight with a 10-pound weight in your hand. You know what I mean?

Now, this is a lot about the professionalism of Usman. It elevated Usman a lot, man. I mean, he didn't look tired at the end. He looked like he could have fought another couple rounds. he even said he regretted not accepting five rounds. Well, that's the crazy part about it. Like with both these guys, you can say at 11 days notice, they didn't have time to prepare, and that's absolutely accurate.

But I think Usman could have gone two more rounds, and I think if he would have had two more rounds, he could have won that fight. Like, that's how crazy it is. Like, I don't think that 11 days would have affected. If he would have had a fourth and fifth round, I think we'd be talking about Kamar Usman winning that fight today. I really do believe that.

I honestly believe that. It speaks a lot to the professionalism of Usman. I mean, this guy was really. ready that quickly against Kamai. Again, I don't take nothing away from Hamza. I think a lot of people are kind of diminishing him now because of Buzma'am coming in on such short notice. But Brahmsat's a killer.

And I think he's going to do everything we've thought that he's going to do. How do you think you match it up with Strickland? How do you match him to that level? Yeah. Like you just, you don't. Everybody was talking about he's a killer, destroyer, smasher and it's like dude at that level you just don't do that every time it's just no way like we're still human beings when do we when do we learn when did we really learn about john jones we

learned about john jones when he ran into alexander gustafson it wasn't him you know it wasn't him going out there an elbow and brandon vera into the mat it's when a guy actually gave him a fight and that's where john jones is that dude because he actually had to gut through some tough moments take downs you know guy who wasn't scared of straight a guy who was his biggest him, all these kind of things. He had to win that fight for us to really truly understand how good he is. And I think, I think Hamzat proved a lot in that fight. Like, yeah, like, and also, and to give him some credit, he went from Paulo Costa, you know, a stocky boxer knockout artist who probably would not have attempted a takedown, you know, in the entire

fight to a hybrid wrestler, striker, one of the best welterweights of all times. It's a huge difference in opponent from Paulo Costa to Paul to Kumar Usman, you know what I mean? So give, you know, I'll give Chuck Chimae have some credit there as well. But I don't know. How do you think he matches? Because it looks like he's going to get Sean Strickland next. How do you think he matched up with Strickland? I think he matched up pretty well with Strickland.

I got to say that much. Because I've got to think that, you know, I don't think Strickland's the wrestler that Ooste Man is. You know, Hobbs out's going to wrestle him. You know what I mean? That's what he's going to do to most people. It's hard to imagine Strickland dealing with the wrestling like that. Usen beat Strickland.

I think people forget that, too. Usen had a win over Strickland, a welterweight. Yeah, I do think that was a different Strickland then, too. It was. I give him that much, you know. It was. Yeah, that was a younger, less polished version of himself. Maybe he didn't really know who he was yet as a fighter.

But, like, he's definitely coming to his own at 185 and is a different fighter. now. But let's give, let's give, but let's give Hanslach credit. He did take Usman down in that first round and really dominate him and who's ever done that to Kumar Usman. Like who's ever done? No one has ever done that. Yeah. There you go. That's, that's fucking hard

to do. I haven't seen to fight, but if he did that, that's the fucking money. That's the money round. You know, he, no, I haven't seen it. He took a down to 10. I read, I read, I read everything that happened, but that's saying, that's

big time shows the dominance of his wrestling because Ousman is hard to hold the fuck down. I've seen him in scramble situations and practice a lot. And no, man, that's real. It's a, it's super hard to hold somebody down. Yeah. It's good. Like I said, and I think Camaro, like I said, I don't, I don't hold it against Camaro. Yeah, he lost the fight, but dude, he can still do whatever he wants.

Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't doubt him coming back and winning. the welterweight title again. Like, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility he does that. He talked about maybe fighting Dracus duplice, now that we know it's going to be Hamzai getting the title. I was like, you know what? That's not a bad idea. Dracus needs a big fight.

Usen's a big name. Give him, you know, give him four months to actually become a middleweight, you know, because walking around at 185, 200 pounds is not training to be a middleweight. You know what I mean? Like, that's different thing. With that said, does anyone in their right mind argue that Drakeus does not deserve the title, at the title shot at this point. I mean, come on.

He does, but you and I know how that works, Matt. You know what happens when you deserve something? It don't see. It don't happen. Yeah, that's just crazy to me. The Hamzot's going to get a title shot off of that, versus, especially versus, you know, Drankis getting the title shot.

It's such a weird one, too, because like Israel's taking a break, which I get, and I think that's totally, you know, totally cool. He's taking a break. The Dracus is the guy. He should get the title shot. But listen, Hamzot's a big name. Hamzot is a bigger name in Strickland, you know.

And to his credit, you know, 11 days notice, whatever it is, he did just be one of the greatest welterways of all time. I know it's middle way, but he did just be one of the greatest welterweights of all time. I mean, I'm not saying it's right. I agree with you. Draykes should be getting the title shot, but I've just given up on that argument, Matt. I've just been like, you know what? It's just pointless because you know what's going to happen.

And nothing signed yet. I mean, Hamza, maybe, maybe I think I heard. I think I heard after the fight, he may have broken his right hand in the first round. He may be out for a while. So if that happens, you know, we may get Strickland and Dracus. I heard that too. Wasn't Dracus hurt, though, too? Well, he had a foot injury which stopped him from fighting Adasagna in September.

But, you know, January, February? Like, he could be ready to go. Homsla might not be ready yet. I want to see him all fight. I wish they'd bring back the tournaments, you know? Yeah. You know, like, this is like a perfect situation. tournament, you know.

What did you think of Islam, though? Islam monster, dude. I mean, dude. Brown said it best today. Talking about Volk and Islam at practice this morning. And basically, it don't matter what Islam did. It doesn't matter what Volcanowski did, Islam. Fucking showed how great he is.

And very short, just the short period time he had out there, he looked fucking superior. And honestly, again, it was short time. We didn't get a real great look at everything. But boy, his striking looked polished. He looked sharp. He looked on point. He looked comfortable.

He looked like, and that's the most dangerous thing. He's known so much for his grappling. We know how good he is as a grappler, a wrestler and all that with some polished striking. He might be who everybody's been saying the Hamzad is. Yeah, he might be the real smash. Yeah, there you go, Brown. Good ball right there. You know, it reminds me of when,

it reminds me a little bit of when Khabib fought Connor and everyone's like, well, it's Stryker versus Grappler. And then Khabib goes out there, knocks down Connor with a punch. You don't see coming. Islam, Islam's got sneaky good striking. He did it to Olivaire too. Islam, like Khabi, he got that knockdown because of his wrestling.

Right. I think if it's a boxing match with Kibib and Connor, I think it's an easy match for Connor. Whereas if Islam and Volk were in a kickboxing match, which they essentially were, like I give Islam still a good shot. Like I think it's 50-50 if they're in a pure kickboxing match. But I love that setup the way, I mean, he did it. Like there was no accident that he hit that head kick.

He set it up. It was, I mean, it was a brilliant game plan to go out there, throw a couple low kicks, grapple with him, make him start thinking about the take. down and then as soon as he wasn't looking for it he went up top and he cracked him well folks said something like uh maybe they see something in and in and in the film but what i'm saying is fucking brown always says man you know the hands got to be up over the temple not over the fucking ear so to the two times he got a fucking one right there perfect perfect

accuracy was sick and i was surprised also like generally used two hands to block kicks. Uh-huh. You know, and I think bulk would probably normally do that. I don't know what was going on there. So, you know, and I know those city kickboxing guys know what they're doing, so I'm not going to act like I'm better than them or whatever. But, yeah.

I don't know, both didn't expect the striking of Islam or just made a mental lapse or maybe it's an old habit that Islam scene. It's hard to say, you know. Some things like that you'd have to look real deep into, you know, maybe I'll get to looking deep into that one day. But how good is Islam, though, man? That guy is such a monster. Like, he is, you know, what's scary about him is like, you know,

when you get to that championship level, like, you already got to be really good. Islam keeps getting better. Like, Islam, like, if you would have said Islam would knock down Charles Oliver before choking him out, people would have said you're crazy. And you would have said he's going to knock out Alexander Volkadovsky on the feet.

No wrestling, none of that. Like he knocked him out on the feet. Most people, even a year ago, would have said, ah, that's a little crazy. Like, he'll take him down to mall him on the ground, but he ain't going to knock him out. He just dead. Realistically, he was dominating the whole striking battle.

He was. It wasn't just that he landed a shot. He was winning. His clinch looked good. His striking looked good. Like, Volk didn't really, it wasn't really able to get. any bad ass brown wasn't it that most time he fucking was so strong with his clench oh yeah he had that tie clench which i know you had to love mad he had that tie clench and vault couldn't break it like he couldn't break free of the rip first i don't i hate the term tie clench i wish they would get rid of that and uh you know and m m maburbage you know i think it you know probably comes from rogan them because yeah you know uh you know uh

A clinch is a clinch. If you grab a guy. Yeah. I like that, Brown. But it does come from Rogan Pratt. But anyway, what he was doing was good, though. Yeah. Yeah.

I hate that term. He was dominating the clinch space all around. How good do you think Islam is? Like, in terms of like what we're saying, I know we get thrown around the all-time term a lot. And I know it's just, I hate it, but it's kind of like part of the sport. like how good is his like I think it's going to take a lot to beat that dude

like obviously it's fighting anything can happen yeah there's no doubt it's going to take a lot to beat him I mean he's proven that much but how good is he still thinks to be seen you know like I've been hot on too many guys too often and then there's just that one weakness or that one little mental lapse

and suddenly you know that balloon gets deflated real quick So I try not to get too high on guys, but damn, you're seeing, like you said, we're seeing improvements every time and we're seeing a dominant, dominant, dominant fighter improving still. I like what you said. I think, well, the way we talked about Hamzot, which it's not a knock on Hamzaa, but I like that you're like, that could be Islam. Islam is what we thought Hamzot was going to be.

Like, there's just a guy who just goes on malls people. like that's kind of what Islam does. Like Islam just like no one really has a close fight. Like yes. Volkanowski, you know, had some moments against Islam. But that's where we have to go to to find flaw in Islam's game. We're like, he had some moments. He didn't win the fight.

He had some moments. Like he didn't win, but he had a couple moments. Like that's how that's how nitpicky we have to give for Islam Akcha to find flaws in his game is to say a guy had a couple of moments. And, you know, I mean, you could say the same thing about his mentor, Khabib. like, Khabib never lost much of anything. Like, he lost, like, one round in the UFC. Like, you don't, like, that's how nitpiggy had to be, like, when he lost a round.

Some guy had moments. It was Bokinowski, the number of two pound for pound. You know, a lot of people had number one pound for pound when they fought, right? So, or at least, you know, in the top three pound for pound. It wasn't that some guy had some moment to get them the greatest feather weight maybe in history, right? Yeah. Yeah. We know his greatness in wrestling, but I'm easily impressed with his stand-up.

I thought it was really, really high level, but where he stands out, where he is the lead of all the elite is where it always comes down to his gas tank. I don't think it could be matched, not even close. I thought Tom's out. I thought Chomai have had the gas tank, but no way. We'll see. No way. I mean, I'm sure he trained his ass off for this fight and he still got tired as hell. But this guy can go five rounds and keep going. Just like, that's the same thing with Kabid. But Andy's focused and he's got all the discipline in the world. How long is he going to fight for? Hopefully it's not another Kabib situation.

Doesn't sound like it. He says he wants to go to Walter and win the title there. So, I mean, I think he's going to stick around a lot longer. I don't think he's going anywhere. I don't know how anybody could just retire at that age. That'd be miserable. Yeah, that's kind of crazy.

You know, it's funny, though, Matt. You talked about it, like, with the Hamzaa thing, and just throwing this out there, if Hamzot has problems, if Hamzaa has any problems with cardio, Sean Strickland's not the guy you want to fight. Sean Strickland will go for 12 rounds. Like, that's, he's just never ending. Like he was, he just wears you down.

Like he's not the guys to do. And we've seen him in a hard wrestle. But I was about to say the same thing. We've seen his cardio when a guy standing there striking with them. That's true. When you get taken down, they take downs, have to get up, getting clinched a lot, especially a guy like, like, like Hamzaa, who's going to grab you a lot. Even if you're defending well and doing the right things.

He tastes like shit, right? Yeah, it's just wearing you out, you know. Yeah. Who do you want to seek it Islam next? Gaichi or Olivaara? I'm neither one, you know? I'm pretty good, you know. Come on, we need your new star.

We need somebody. I'd like to see Gashy get it. I'd like to see Gachie get it. I just think it's, I agree with Gaci. It's a different matchup. Haven't, haven't seen it yet. You know, I don't know. I don't know that the Olaver's.

Over Oliveira, yes. I don't know the Olivera fight's going to go much different than it did the first time. Like, it was a year ago. Like, I'd like to see Olivera get another win and then maybe he gets up. Both those guys last two or three fights. For Gaechie, it was Fiziv, the Raphael Fiziv fight and the Dustin Porre knockout. And then for Charles, it was just a Binald-Dar-Uish fight. He lost to Islam and they beat Binald-Dar-Ush and they were giving the rematch.

I mean, that's tough. Those are some hell of good games. guys to be you know yeah yeah I just to me you knock out Dustin Porre like that you got to get a title shot you just don't do that to Dustin Porre like you don't go out there and head kick knock out Dustin Porre the way the gate

you did or physique I mean God damn yeah definitely you talk me into it Gates she's the fight I like it I like it Matt you know Olivera you know he had the title before too you know and he was God he was on a

terror before Islam, right? That was his 12-fight win streak, right? Yeah, he was on that until he ran into it. 12 fights, has the title, loses, and then beats whoever you just say, be Benile Darius. Yeah, I don't think it's a knock on, I don't think it's a knock on Charles.

I just think it's how good Islam is. Like, it's just Islam. There's not a right answer there. Yeah. You know, like either one of those guys are worthy and deserving. But will they win? That's the question. And I don't know if anyone's being Islam right now.

know. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that. I mean, if I'm picking one or the other to win, I think Gagie has a better shot of winner. Yeah, more, more, I'm thinking you got, Gachi is an intriguing matchup with his wrestling fucking ability. Those those leg kicks. He's got nasty calf kicks. Obviously, a lot of power. I mean, dude, let's not forget. He hurt Charles a couple of times. Like Charles got him in the end, you know what I mean? But he had, like, he dropped Charles twice in that first round when they fought. So it's not like Gachy got dominated by Charles Oliver. Like, he had moments.

And I think Gachie's gotten better since then. Like, I think he looked great against Fiziv. And then to go out and knock out Dustoporio that way, like, again, I'm not saying he'll beat Islam. I don't know that I'll pick anyone to beat Islam. But I think he's got, I think he might be a little bit tougher of a matchup right now. Yeah, yeah. I think I agree. Yeah.

because Gagey just has a different type of grit than Olivera, you know, he's got, and that's not a knock on Olivera, but Olivera is one of the most technical guys, probably in the world. I mean, he's got to be skilled technique-wise. He might be top two or three in the world, but Gage's just got a grit that you don't find anywhere else. Unwrap Holiday Magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to luxe beauty and fragrance sets.

Our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. Yeah. So we just talked about the highest level of MMMM.

in the world. And then this weekend, we get the highest level boxing in the world, Matt, the you've been waiting for. Tyson Fury against Francis Ngano is the one you've been waiting for. I know. I can't wait to spend another 80 bucks on that, right? Which I won't be doing. I put out a tweet today and I said, you know, Francis Ngano is already won. Like he bet on himself in free agency as UFC heavyweight champion, let's not forget, left, got the Fury fight, which a lot of people said he'd never get. That would never happen. He got it.

He got the PFL contract. I was like, he's already won. Like, in a lot of ways, he's playing with House money. I say that knowing that I'm giving Inganu less of a chance against Ty Superior than you've given him a chance. You've actually defended Francis a little bit more than I have, Matt. Yeah, well, I mean, a fight to fight, you know, but. I don't think he has a chance.

Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't drop 10 bucks on them, you know, but. I mean, listen, everyone has a chance. I have a chance. I know I wouldn't. I'm just saying like I could. You don't have a chance, Damien. I'm just saying like anybody, anybody could have a chance, quote unquote, like with that 0.0.001% chance of anything.

And I think Francis is an incredible athlete and an incredible fighter. But he ain't taken on just any heavyweight. He's taking on Tyson Fury. Fact. You know? I think the chance that I give him is the fact that it is a heavyweight. It's going to have you hit him more once. Just his first punch, even if it's a good powerful one,

it doesn't mean he's going to go down on that one. You know what I mean? So it's true. It's going to have to hit him more than a few times. So it's going to be hard. I guess when you talk about like Jake Paul versus Nate Diaz or, you know, I don't know, Dildo, whatever his name is. and these smaller guys

I give even less of a chance because there's a lot more skill involved at heavyweight I increase that chance an extra percentage point you know from one to two because at heavyweight like you know knockouts fucking happen

they do they do they absolutely do like if Nate Diaz lands a shot on Jake Paul he that's not his way he has to land 100 he has to outland him. If Ingado Land 1, that could be a fight changer, if not fight ender. But the reality is...

He won't. I don't know. I'm not saying he will. I mean, he won't. It's not like Tyson ain't never been in there with hard punchers before, but... But I'm just saying that's where that chance from, you know, 0% to 1% to 2%, you know, goes up. Yeah. And I agree with you because Francis and Francis does hit like a truck.

We all know that. But again, you have to land for it to matter. And I don't know that he can land. Like Francis is an, like what Francis does in MMA, and I understand he's been training in boxing. He's been training with Mike Tyson and all this kind of things. But the way you throw punches that they land in MMA is not how you're going to throw punches and they land in boxing. Like I just, this argument drives me wild because like boxing is really.

really, really hard. Well, the things, the punches are a crazy different. I mean, there is some difference there that you're talking about. But even bigger is just the rule set, right? Like, I was talking about this before, you know, and I think Coleman would probably add to it, right? Where you're talking about, you know, boxing three minute rounds and there's 12 of them is a very,

very, very, very different pace than three, five minute rounds. you're just like if you're wrestling, you know, for seven minutes, you know, in, you know, two minute periods or three minute periods, that's very, very different than, you know, of three, five minute rounds. It's just a different pace altogether. And, you know, when you have 12, three minute rounds, there's a lot of adjustments you can make. There's breaks that you get. There's setups are different. You know, and that's not even counting, you know. with the experience and the the lack of weapons, you know, with only having two weapons,

et cetera. Yeah. But I mean, like I said, I love Francis. I'm glad he got this fight. I'm glad he's getting the opportunity. But I'm just saying, like, realistically, I don't see him doing. I see, I see him surviving in this fight as long as Francis, as long as Tyson's allows him to survive in this fight.

Like, I don't, it kind of comes back to like the Mayweather McGregor thing a little bit. Like did McGregor really survived around 10 or did Mayweather allow him to survive around 10? You know what I mean? Like at heavyweight, is Tyson going to mess around and just like let Francis stick around? He's going to go out there. He's going to fucking mess around. He's going to finish him quick if he can. He ain't fucking Floyd Mayweather, man.

He was too much big difference in risk. You know heavyweights, Coli. Do you give Francis and got him much of a chance to beat Tyson Furious? in a boxing match? Not much. No, not much. I mean, he hits fucking hard,

but like I said, it probably ain't just going to take one. It's going to take like two or three. And I don't know if he can get two or three off. And even when you talk about that one

that he lands, like in boxing, you don't just land one baby. Like you got to set that up. That's what I mean. That's what I'm talking about. I just want. It's going to take a one, two, three.

It's like if you're wrestling and you have to get a five-point throw, it's like you don't just walk up and grab the guy and throw. Like, you got to set that thing up. You know, it might take you two periods to set it up. Just like, you know, it might take him, you know, four or five rounds to set that up. And that's all the time that Tyson is going to be setting up his shit. So, yeah, no change. So what's your prediction, Matt?

How do you see this from going? I mean, Tyson will stop him, you know, whether it's sooner or later. I don't have a tough prediction, but there's, I mean, Tyson's one of the top five best in history. I think most people would argue or agree with that he's one of top five best heavyweight boxers in history. And this is Francis's first boxing match. He's stopping him at some point. Yeah, like we're talking, like, we revisit this conversation in three months and we're talking about Tyson Fury, Alexander Usik.

We can sit there and make arguments about why Usik could win that fight because Usik is an incredibly good boxer. But even then, even then, I'll tell you right now, like, I would still pick Tyson Fury to win because Usik is not a very big heavyweight, you know, Tyson's so experienced, so powerful, so good, so long, all these kind of things. The physical advantages, I think, start to play a factor as well. And Ganu has one. He has one thing. He has power.

He doesn't have the boxing skills. You don't develop that kind of boxing skill in six months or three months or whatever he's been doing to get ready for this fight. You know what I mean? Like he can't do anything to match Tyson Fury in this fight except for that one thing, what Joe Rogan called the nuclear option. Yes, he does have that one punch. But as you guys said, it's not one punch. It's setting it up. It's setting up that one punch.

You don't just go out there and throw a haymaker in boxing. and generally that ends the fight. Right. Well, the only thing I might argue there is I give Usik a way better chance than I think most people are. That Usik is a special fighter. Oh, I'm not, I'm just saying like Usik is a, Ucic is like, but even then, like Tyson is going to be favored to beat him. Like that, you know what I'm saying? I'm going to favor of Tyson, but boy, I'm, that might be like a 4951 favor.

You know what I mean? But that's what I'm saying. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's legitimate. I think on the odds he will be, yeah. Yeah, but like in Ghana, like realistically, we consider and talk up in Ghana all day and say he's got this, he could land a punch, blah, blah, blah. We're just, I think we're talking ourselves into making this interesting, Matt.

Let's be honest. Yeah, they're not going to talk me into spending more money this month on pay-per-views. But that's what I'm saying. I want to see that fight, man. I got to see that shit. And you got to stream it. Well, yeah, I'm going to stream it, of course. Yeah, but I just, I love Francis.

I, when I say this, I don't leave for you overseas because, damn, I don't want to piss them all. But I love, I love Francis, man. I'm so happy he's getting this opportunity. I'm so glad he's getting a big payday, all that kind of stuff. But I just, I don't think this is going to end well for him. Like, it's not a knock on Francis and Gano. He's not fighting the number 20 ranked heavyweight. He's not fighting just a heavyweight boxer.

He's fighting Tyson Fury. Like, let's give us some respect. where respect is due. Yeah, yeah. We need, I like to see any of these inmates guys. When we go to boxing,

like I like to see box. You know, I want to see box. Like, do some come-up fights, you know? Yeah. Which, of course, why would he, right? You know,

then risk, you know, getting a big payday and everything. But, you know, we don't know where he's at as a boxer. Yeah. But I mean, you know, you said it, like we talked about this months ago, you said, you know, Anthony Joshua maybe because like, you know, he doesn't like getting hit. And I said Deonté Wilder because, you know, Deonté Wilder's not the most skilled boxer in the world. He obviously has incredible power.

Tyson, to me, is the worst matchup of all the big names heavyways. You know what I mean? It's also the most lucrative matchups too, right? Listen, that's what I said. To me. Well, maybe not really. Like, Anthony Joshua might be, you know, you can be fight him over in Europe. Yeah, but you're not selling

Big payday. You're not selling pay-per-views with that, though. That's what this is about. You're selling pay-per-views. And Josh Wayne, a paper-view draw here. He ain't a drawing. Okay, though. Yeah, you might be right.

You probably right. But that's what I'm saying. Like, this is, to me, Francis is playing with house money because he already won by getting the fight. He's going to get $20 million, whatever it is to get paid. But realistically, I don't think, like, yes,

everyone has a chance. As you said, like, okay, it's a 2% chance. yeah yeah i mean is it real but in reality if there is there any world where you see frances gonna really winning this fight be honest do you really see him winning this fight well i mean i think you can always see a world just because of this fucking you know combat sports i mean i can i can tell you a lot of fights i didn't see a world where a guy would win but but yeah i don't i don't see a world there is a world out there i just don't see it like we would like whatever it was two years ago like if i would have

said Tiafima Lopez was going to beat Basilio Lomachinko, you probably would have said Yeah, I wouldn't have seen that world either. Yeah, but Tiafima Lopez is a world-class boxer. You know what I mean? Like, Francis is not. Francis is not, and that's not me diminishing it. He may be one of the greatest heavyweights in the sport.

He may still be in MMA, but MMA's not boxing. If Tyson came over and fought and gone to an MMA, he'd get absolutely demolished. Like, it wouldn't even be a fight. Like, he would absolutely get handled inside one round. And I think we should. shaking down, right? And I think the same,

I think the same respect has to be shown to Tyson going the other way around. Like, I just don't, I love Francis. I just don't see this going well for him. Asian Perry can learn how to stop the take down in six months. Come over and train in the Mortal Martial Arts Center.

Let, let Mark Colton be your trainer. Oh, man. Well, yeah, yeah, he could do it then. So, but what, so what's your prediction, Matt? He could start a day down in six months training. He's all.

working on it. Ain't too many people going to put in the work that Mark Coleman going to make you put in, though. Yeah. Yeah, that's fucking sick. So what's your official prediction, Matt? You don't let you get off easy, bro. Coleman, don't let you come in and do your best.

Yeah. You got to do what the fuck is required. I see the videos, man. I see the training videos. Yeah, you don't give a fuck, right? Right, Cole. You don't give a fuck about someone's best. You can give your best somewhere else.

You're going to fucking do the work. I love it. I love it. So what's your official prediction, Matt? What's your official bet? If you're betting, I'm not betting you on this one, by the way. You're not winning back on this one, trust me. Yeah, it types of furry by stoppage.

I mean, it's pretty simple. How long does it go? You better knockout inside five. I'm going to go between six and nine. There goes that long. Yeah, I think he's going to be careful, you know. Yeah, he's going to be careful. you're going to be safe.

That's good. Yeah. He's going to be careful. He doesn't have no reason to take a big risk. You know, a lot of people kind of forget, too. One of the cold ones has there been a fight.

The fight you're supposed to win is the one that makes you the most nervous. That's the worst fight to go out to. The one you're supposed to win. Well, heck yeah. The one you ain't supposed to win, you get fired up for. You're like, fuck it.

You get motivated. You get, you know, you love that pressure. The one you're supposed to win, that shit fucks your mind up, bro. But it's different. I still think it's different having that mindset here than it is when, I mean, because I said this months ago, I said the last thing Tyson Fury wants is to get embarrassed by Francis and Ghana. He cannot have that happen. Like, he cannot have that happen.

So, like, for all the people saying, like, is he taking it seriously? Is he half-assad? I don't think so. I don't. Because the last thing he can afford to do with an undefeated. record and people saying he's like one of the greatest heavyweights to we've ever seen in boxing to go out there and lose to a guy one an oh and o boxer

I don't care if your name is francis and goner whoever you are you cannot be you cannot be you cannot be Tyson here and lose this guy you cannot that's what I'm saying bro it's going to be nerve-wracking for it's not a mentally easy fight for him oh that's just fucking terrifying but but that and that's why I say six to nine because once he gets comfortable and realizes how much better he is, then he'll start finding his spots. But he's not going to go out there and risk everything to try to throw big shots at the beginning.

He's going to be like, you know, how do I do this cleanly, safely, get myself out of here so I can go, you know, go fight Uc in a few months. Well, Tyson Fury is also the kind of guy who will jab you a little while to pick you apart and then he'll knock out. He's not typically a first-round knockout guy anyways. Like that, he's not. He's not Wilder who'll go out there and just throw you one in the first, second round and knockout.

And even Wilder doesn't always get first or second-round knockouts, but he doesn't have that Mike Tyson style where he just goes in there and just absolutely overwhelms guys with his power. Like, he has power. He can knock you out, but that's not really Tyson if he's game against anybody. Exactly. And that's why I go with six to nine. Yeah, I think I'll split the difference.

I'll say somewhere between five and seven. Five and seven, I think he stops him. I think he puts him down in that range. I think it's going to take it'll take a few minutes until he'll fill him out. He'll get the gauge of, you know, what's Francis doing? What's his game plan going to be? Is he actually going to try to box with me? Or is he going to just try to throw, you know, big haymakers just trying to land one?

You know, like, I mean, and again, Deonté Wilder got boxed up for nine rounds and then almost took Francis, almost took Tyson's head off. So, you know, I don't think he's going to play around him too much, but I think he's going to figure him out, time it. and then start chipping away at him 5, 6, 7, I think he puts him down and out. And again, I don't care that, I don't care that Francis loses, he's still won. He won. He got $20 million. He wins no matter what. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

The guy is just, yeah, yeah, good for him, man. It's getting bigger payday than I've ever got. Dude, yeah. No hate coming from me in my head, bro. Yeah, they pay you $20 million. I bet you step in there with who's the, who's the champion? around your weight. Is it Canello?

Canello, baby. Oh, yeah. I mean, I fight Canello in a heartbeat, especially with elbows. I'm killing. But I'm saying with just boxing. Of course. I mean, I fight any man.

You know, I love fighting. Did you see real quick? I just love to see one of these cock suckers, you know, instead of every M-M-A guy, I've got got to go to boxing. Can we get somebody come do Muay Thai with me? How about, you know what I mean? like let's do some some brutal shit

bro. That's why we need to move inside this country. Yeah like can we get like I don't know Jake Paul let's get let's do moitai like you want to test yourself like let me elbow your face and let's see how much man you are. Did you see did you see the the bare knuckle Muay fight that's happening in a little while

the Sanchai Bukau fight is going to be it's going to be bare knuckle Muay Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know because those guys are such good friends, you know. Like, I don't know, you know, if they're going to put on a show, if they're really going to fight. And, you know, if they really fight, I mean, I don't think that's a difficult fight for San Chai, to be honest. But bare and uncle Muay Thai just sounds interesting to me. Well, I love that, yeah.

I love that. What's, what is, everyone says, what's more, is it, what's more brutal? Is it, is it Moit Thai or Let's way? What's more brutal? Well, Lethway, yeah. I mean, that's the difference is that. That's not as good to happen. Yeah, as well as I was going to say, the difference is, you know,

the guys doing Lethway is over in Cambodia, you know, and there's about maybe a thousand guys in the world that actually train it and do it, you know, and there's some savages over there, you know, smoking a lot of meth and stuff going in and fighting Lethway. But, you know, when you talk about, a sport like moitai i mean you got an entire country of people growing up on that and you got you know uh people are all around the world now that are that are doing it high level athletes um so you know i think it would be you'd have a better chance at doing well in lethway but

it's a far far more brutal sport that just the way the rules are set up yeah it's interesting it's interesting i just think the less rules the better matt brown goes that's what i say Oh, yeah, I don't like rules at all. I don't like rounds. I don't like rules. None of that stuff. You would have thrived in the early EOC days. Yeah, I would have really enjoyed that.

But it's, I get why they do it. It's, you know. Hey, I said it. I said on Twitter, like Let's Way doesn't have no rules, but there's also no money. I said it, I said on Twitter a couple months ago, I said if they never outlawed headbutts, I said Mark Coleman would still be the UFC heavyweight champion right now. He'd be, they'd still have the belt. Undefeated.

They never took away headbutts. Coleman would have been undefeated right now. You'd still have the belt right now, Colie. There's no doubt in my mind about it. Well, I would have with the booze down. I was a journey, man. Well, if there was headbutts. You would have been a champion.

You would have stayed champion. You would have stayed. Marie Smith beat me fair and square. Head butts were legal. I fucking knocked him out with a headbutt. I woke him back up with another one. and then I got tired as fuck. It was the most horrible,

this most humbling evening ever. But I made it 21 minutes. My dad says I won that fight. I said, Dan, what are you talking about? He's like, well, that fucking coward pussy, you know, why didn't he step in and try to knock you out? He was afraid. You know, I was dead tired.

He should have easily knocked me out. You know, but, yeah, that's it. You are, baby. You never know. You never know. Well, Coley, I'm glad everything's going well, man. Obviously, very happy for you. Very proud of you, man.

Keep up the sober lifestyle. Keep doing the liver king. Hey, my line with Steve A. Jones, the whole shebang. It's going to come down to motherfucking gas tank, man. You know, somebody, the gas thing, I'm not going to go any further than that, but that's going to be critical. It's going to go. Deep into the it's going to go deep into the fight, I think.

I love it. I can't wait. November, big fight. Only a few weeks away now, too. It's actually right around the corner. It's right around the corner. Yeah, it's going to be good. It's going to be real good.

Cully, always a pleasure. Good to have you back on. Matt, obviously, we'll be back next week. You're going to Jersey this weekend to coach. Yes, sir. So, yeah, I'll see when we get back for it's Sunday, Monday. I don't know. But you got some fucking killers going on out there.

so we're going to have some fun. Good stuff. All right, boys. Well, I appreciate it as always. Matt, anywhere you want to plug? I always let people know where they can support you. You know, I am the immortal Twitter and Instagram at the Immortal Coffee. Make coffee, not excuses.

Mark Coleman, UFC, Instagram, carnivore diet, nine ancestral tenants. Lever King. Thank you, buddy. for the supplements, their fucking high power, badass. Shredded. Shredded. Shredded.

I love it. I love it. And, uh, of course. It's cool. Coolest thing ever. Hell. For a lot. I love it.

Boys, we will do this again soon. All right. See you, my man. All right. Later. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Thank you.