MMA Fighting - Heck of a Morning | Al Iaquinta Talks Open Scoring, Nate Diaz's UFC Future, Danny Sabatello Joins the Show

Episode Date: March 31, 2022

Nate Diaz asked for his release from the UFC over the weekend on social media, but he likely won't get what he wants. What does that mean for the popular fighter? That topic is discussed on this Thursday edition of Heck of a Morning with MMA Fighting's Mike Heck. In addition, Al Iaquinta (25:00) calls in to give his thoughts on open scoring in MMA — which led to a lot of discussion — your questions are answered, and Bellator bantamweight Danny Sabatello joins the program in a podcast exclusive interview to preview his grand prix qualifier bout with Jornel Lugo at Bellator 278 in April. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 8 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. It is a heck of a morning, and it is Thursday, March 31st, 2022, and we are back. We made it to a second show. They did not cancel us after the pilot episode. And I am thrilled about that, but hope your morning is great. Hope the coffee is strong. The breakfast is filling and delicioso. So now you can just sit back, relax.

You can participate. And let's talk some MMA in the morning. I am Mike Heck. First off, before we get in everything, thank you for listening. I know it could be early for a lot of you. And some people around the globe, it's the afternoon. So this works out swimmingly for you. But I also want to thank everybody for the incredible feedback from the debut episode on Tuesday.

It was a lot of fun. The collars were fun. We had some great cameos from the MMA fighting staff as well. And had a great time. But it's going to be a busy show today. I will say this. For those who will be listening after the fact

on the podcast network, you'll be getting a little bonus content. We'll have an interview with Bellator Grand Prix play-in fighter, Danny Sabitello. He's going to be fighting

on the April 22nd card, Bellator 278, I believe. He's going to be fighting Jornel Lugo. The winner of that fight will go on to the Grand Prix and we'll face Leandro Ego for a chance

to win the interim title at the end of it, a million dollars. So you can check that out later on today. for those that are going to be listening to the podcast. But those listening live, that will be, yeah, podcast that's at the very end of the program.

But at the very end of the live portion, we'll have some breaking news for fans of BTL. We have a grudge match that a lot of people will be excited about. That'll go down 3 p.m. Eastern Live on the M.A. Fighting YouTube page. So stay tuned. Before that, we'll be free-for-all. We take the lock off the door, so to speak,

and you guys and gals will have the chance to break down the door ask questions about whatever you want about MMA if you want to get a little crazy you want to talk WrestleMania we can talk whatever you want we'll go through MMA birthdays before that we'll go through MMA in history

on this day all sorts of fun stuff for your MMA morning show pleasure but I can't even begin to tell you how many questions I have gotten about this man over the last couple of days and I guess I need to thank Ariel Hawani

for cutting a hell of a promo about this on the MMA hour on Monday but I've gotten so many messages messages in my Instagram DMs about Nathan Diaz. He has been such a topic of conversation. And the big question has been from everybody is who will he fight? Like who will Nate Diaz fight next? And obviously, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered.

And if you listen to the M.A. hour on Monday, Ariel talked about the whole situation. He talked about Diaz getting offered the Homsat Shemaya fight after Shemai F ran through Lee Jing Liang at UFC 267 October, which was a terrible. idea and off topic, there are people out there that were suggesting that the U.S.C. should have booked Hamzaa Shemaya versus Nick Diaz. And there were actually outlets that reported that this fight was in the works. And I can tell you that is not the case at all.

But a lot of people thought Hamzat versus Nick Diaz was the fight to make at some point last year. And this is before Diaz came back and fought Robbie Lawler. But I thought that was one of the worst ideas of all time. Guy's been out almost seven years and you want to throw him in the octagon with Hamza Tchamayef? That is just insane. And after watching the fight with Robbie Loller, I guess in hindsight, I think that if you didn't agree with me back then, when I blasted that idea around a year ago, you're probably on my side now. But sort of back to his brother, Nate, everyone involved knew that the fight between Hamzaa Chameh and Nate Diaz would never get made.

UFC used that to extend the contract because Nate still has one fight left on his deal. And that's all the UFC has to do. Ayrill explained it perfectly, but for those who miss that, all the UFC has to do is offer these fighters three fights a year. They have to offer them fights contractually. And the fighters can choose whether or not they want to take the fight. They could say yes, they could say no. And if they say no, they can add month to the current contracts.

If you have one fight left in a deal, Francis deGano talked about this as well. That was the whole interim title situation with Derek Lewis and Cyril Gahn. They extended this contract another six months. He fought Cyril Gahn. And that was like the whole contentiousness of the whole contract situation. He wants respect, so forth and so on. But I could go off about this whole thing, but Ariel kind of said it perfectly.

But here's what I'll say. Here's what I'll reiterate upon what he said on Monday. Nate Diaz wants a fight. He wants to fight. The fight with Dustin Porrier has been on a platter for the UFC since December. A week or so, I don't even know if it was that long. After Dustin Porreya lost to Charles Oliver at UFC 269, both guys were chirping. back and forth. Both guys wanted to fight in January, February, March, then it just

became kind of whatever. Spring, summer, both guys wanted the damn fight. It was right there for you. And from a business sense, you have Nate for one more fight, potentially. He's a massive star. And the UFC is going to approach this as a kind of, we'll scratch your back. You scratch ours. We'll give you your fight. But let's resign. Let's extend your contract. Let's keep you around. and this simply is the big hold up here. This is why Nate's not fighting. The UFC can ice Diaz. They can shelf him as long as they offer him fights.

But they also know that if he fights his last fight and they don't extend him or they don't resign him, he's probably going to leave. He might go elsewhere. He might not, but he might go elsewhere. Maybe they're concerned about him going to Bellator or the PFL. I wouldn't be all that concerned because there isn't much at either promotion for Nate.

But he could also go to boxing and box Jake Paul. And people, for better or worse, would be very interested in seeing how that would play out. People would watch. And if you didn't watch, you'd be following along to see what happened. And the UFC knows that. The UFC was always fine with Ben Ascran boxing Jake Paul or Tyron Woodley boxing Jake Paul. Because with all due respect, they were done with those guys. They were able to make as much money as they could promoting fights for those two individuals.

Those wells were completely dry. Nate, at this point in time, not so much. there's still some meat on that bone, and you would think that if they wanted a chance to keep Nate past this last fight, they would have just given him the Dustin Porre fight. Not only do you keep Nate Diaz happy, but you keep Dustin Porier happy, and if Nate is happy today,

maybe he'll be happy tomorrow. Maybe he'll be happy the next day or the next month. We know Nate kind of changes course a lot, but if you make him happy now, maybe he'll be happy down the road. Maybe he'll be happy six weeks from now. He sees you might want to play ball, a little bit. Then if you want the third fight with Connor this year, which that seems

to be the director of the UFC wants to go, he might give you a more prompt response to that. You give me the Porre fight, I'll bounce back and give you the McGregor fight. But all this tells me is that they're just going to try to keep Diaz shelved until McGregor gets the AOK from the doctors, the AOK from the UFC

to book this trilogy fight. And the first call they'll make more than likely is to Nate Diaz once Connor is clear. So we got an A4 more fight. Let's do the trilogy fight in our octagon. By the way, let me just say this. There's a big reason why the UFC wants to book that fight, and I'll blame the UFC for thinking this way. I don't know if this is the conversation they're having in the war room, but this is the way I see it. It's a completely bass-acquards way of thought process and execution

from the UFC's end. But the reason they are thinking this way and they want to get this fight done is because Nate has one fight left in his deal. Connor doesn't have a lot of meat left on his tractual bone either. So we could be living in a world where there's no Diaz and no Connor under UFC contract. And guess what those two guys are going to try to do? And they damn well should try to do it. They'll do the trilogy on their own, whether it's an MMA or a boxing or you want to do a Demetrius Johnson Rod Tank type of situation, or we do different rounds and different martial

arts, whatever. They will set it up themselves. They will promote it themselves. And they will make 10 crap tons of money. And it's all theirs. And the UFC knows that. But the Diaz story is pretty fascinating right now. It's also a stout reminder that as much as we love the sport,

there is some ugliness to it. There's pettiness because Nate Diaz is a star. People love him and rightfully so, but the UFC will still make a floppy trillion dollars a year whether or not Nate Diaz fights for the promotion or remains on the roster. They just signed Israel Adasani to a big contract. Jorge Mazadol just got a big contract extension before the Colby Covington fight.

And from all accounts, these are big money deals. And the UFC can keep these guys and make them happy, no doubt about it, all of these guys. But if you're not willing to do that with Nate or anybody else, either give him his fight that he's been asking for for the last several months or let the man go and let him live his life. I mean, that's it. There's many times as a combat sports fan, and you probably heard this if you're listening to the show right now, where the UFC specifically is compared to. to the WWE, right? And one thing about the WWE is when they let guys go or things get weird behind the scenes, when talents want to get released, when talents go off and blast WWE behind the scenes or

on interviews or on social media, sometimes WWE is petty. Oftentimes, they'll just cut bait with you. You don't want to be here. Don't be here. But then who knows, you cut bait with them maybe three, four years down the road, maybe shorter. They find their way back. Look at Cody Rhodes right now. Cody Rhodes publicly was like, release me, WW.

Then he goes off and starts his own promotion, one of the founders of AEW, and guess what? By all accounts, he's coming back to WWE. So just because you let Nate Diaz explore other options today doesn't mean he wouldn't come back to the UFC down the road and that you couldn't do business together at some point. If you leave things with a delicious piece of cake under that tin pan, you get at a fancy restaurant, you're going to be pretty over like a like if you opened up one of those tins and you saw a snack pack size jello that my nine year old would bring to school he's not going to be happy about that but if you open it up and it's a delicious piece of cake he's going to remember the cake it'll probably throw the jello in the trash so let's open up the lines here two questions for you guys for this topic of the day because this has become such a story and people want to know about it one do you believe we will see nathan dyes compete inside the octagon this year at some point. And if you do, who will he fight?

Will he resign? What do you think happens with this guy? Raise the hand, send the request. Let's bring in Yakko back. I hope I got that one correct. You are the first voice of the day, if we can get you in here. The wheel is spinning.

The wheels are churting. Hello, sir. Just make sure you're on mute. What's going on? are you there now i got you try again we'll get you back in here we lost you uh we got jed mishu maybe going for uh for early morning jog jem mishu i'm about to but i i wasn't going to raise my hand and then you just come out here absolutely slandering snack packs i mean what the hell is that about mike snack packs are delicious and the pudding one yellow not the gelatin ones

I mean, a snack pack is a snack pack, Mike. That's not, it's not. Just saying, check yourself about your dessert problems. You could have done anything else. Then you're just coming at snack packs. Things ruled as a child. Yeah, they're good, but are they better than a nice homemade piece of chocolate cake? Absolutely not.

I don't know. If I'm like a nine-year-old, I might take the snack pack. My kid's hammering the frosting at least. of this cake. I mean, he may not eat the cake, but he's going to crush the frosting over the jello. Well, maybe. I don't know.

All I know is I felt compelled to speak up for snack packs because I felt that they were being unfairly maligned. Well, I appreciate that, my friend. You have a heck of a morning, Mike Heck. You too, Jedmishu. Always great to hear from you. Let's bring in the No Name MMA show. What's going on, No Name MMA?

We're not going to be fooling anybody. and telling anybody that Nate is going to be fighting anybody besides McGregor, right? There's no way that Dustin Poyer fight gets done. Well, I mean, how confident are you that the McGregor fight gets done? We all see how lucrative that fight could be. It's massive whenever they want to make it. They've had it in their back pocket for a while, but Nate wants to fight Dustin Poree.

And Nate seems to be doing just fine without fighting, and he's at many points in his career where he just didn't. fight and he was fine with that. And you know how Nate is? He's a man of principle. So let's just say they shelled him and then they call him. They say, hey, you could fight Connor in October, November, December. And he says, no, now what are you going to do? Right.

After being offered Hamzaa Shamaev and if he turns down another fight, is that fulfilling that, I mean, I don't know how much you know about the terms, but you know how they have, Ariel was talking about it, how they, are supposed to be offered three fights. Does he just right off into the sunset then, if he just keeps on denying fights? No, that is the thing. I mean, for some cases,

like Francis and Ghanu, for example, because, and we don't know this for a fact, it just seems this is what everybody on his side is saying, is that he has a deal that's structured like that. I guess the newer deals aren't really structured like that, in some of the older deals where kind of the same thing. You can be offered fights. We can continue to extend the contract if you cannot make it to the fight

or you turn it down for whatever reason. But with Francis, he has a deadline. Chris Cyborg's dealing with the deadline as well for Bellator. Like her, she has one fight left in her deal. She's fighting. But if for some reason they couldn't offer a fight come July, the contract is expired. It's done and she can go off and do whatever she wants.

Same sort of thing here with Francis. January 1st, from all accounts, he becomes a free agent, whether he fights or not. So I don't think Nate's Diaz is, I don't think Nate's deal is structured quite, I mean, maybe it is. I have no idea. But from all accounts, the UFC is contractually obligated to offer these fighters three fights a year. And if for some reason, they say no, they can extend the deal and keep these guys for another six months that they want. Nate's in an interesting spot right now because, like I said, he's a man of principal. And if he doesn't want to fight somebody, he's not going to fight him.

and that's why I was like, that's why I didn't understand the Dustin thing. Like, just let him fight freaking Dustin. Like, Dustin wants to fight him. And Nate wants to fight Dustin. Like,

wouldn't you want to try to keep Nate happy if you want a chance to keep him? And if you don't keep them, who cares? Like, you have 700 other fighters on the roster. Nate's a star, but,

like, you're getting all this money, like this guaranteed money coming in. Everything else is cherry on top of the, Sunday. I mean, is it really the end of the world if Nate Diaz goes to boxing and boxes Jake Paul? No, not for the UFC. It would stink. Sure, that's a big name to lose, but it's not the end of the world when you have, when, when you're yearly money is coming in or structured in that way, all this guaranteed money that's coming in from the TV deals and stuff. Who cares? Let Nate go box Jake Paul. Then what is he going to do? Let him go to Belator. Let him go to. So what? So what? Just let the man go. If you don't want him to fight and he doesn't want to fight for you, just cut bait.

Or give him what he wants. Give him the dust and fight. And then, you know, maybe you make him happy. And he goes and fights Connor after that. But I just don't understand the way this all works. I don't understand why the UFC does business this way. I don't understand. I mean, the fighters, we're getting to a point where the fighters just have to come together.

It's never going to happen. It's just not. Joe Lozahn made some really good points. You're actually going to see that interview. I think tomorrow that's going to drop. I spoke to Joe Lozond before his fight with Donald Seroni, and we talked about this, and he made some really good points as to why we're not going to see

a viable, straight-up, fighters' union or association that everyone is all in on. It's just the silly thing, and until that happens, these things are going to keep happening. These conversations are going to continue to happen on these shows and other shows, and that's just the way that it is. So that is Nathan Diaz. I have a feeling, spoiler there, we're going to be talking about this a little bit more

on the MMA fighting programming. So stay tuned for that. Welcome aboard Air Canada. Rocky's vacation here we come. Whoa, is this economy? Free beer, wine, and snacks. Sweet. Fast free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations

before we land. And with live TV, I'm not missing. the game. It's kind of like I'm already on vacation. Nice. Air Canada. Nice travels. Wi-Fi available to Aero plan members on equipped flights sponsored by Bell. Conditions apply. See Air Canada.com. Let's get to birthdays before we open things up for the free-for-all. Long-time UFC veteran, Rich Clementi. Remember Rich Clementi? 45 years of age. Mike Kyle, another UFC vet. He's also fought for W.C. and Strike Force, PFL, etc. He is 41. Marlos Coonin, 40 years old,

MMA pioneer for the women's side. Risen Fighter Ayaka Hamasaki is also 40 years old. Terri-on-Ware, former UFC fighters 35, and Danny Sabatelo, who's going to be on the podcast version of the show, 28 years old today, happy birthday. Felipe Coleris is fighting Chase Hooper, May 21st. He is 27. I also wanted to shout out birthdays from yesterday

because apparently there was like 700 birthdays yesterday, but let me just run off a few. Gerard Gordo, who competed and won the first fight in UFC history at UFC 1 is 67 years old. So if you're new to the sport and you haven't watched that fight, pretty vicious, big kick to the face, tooth goes flying out. That was courtesy of Gerard Godot. So go back and watch that if you want some violence in your life on this Thursday morning. Other celebrating yesterday, this is a massive list to name a few Bibbiano Fernandez.

Melvin Galard, Pam Sorensen, Dan Lozun, Denise Keelholtz, Shana Dobson, Belator fighter Nick Brown, LFA champ, Jamie Lynn Horth Wessel's, Johnny Walker, Chaos Williams, Miles Johns, an eclectic bunch. Happy birthday to you all. Another weird day on the historical side because not a ton of fights happened in history on March 31st, but the UFC did have one March 31st event. and it was in 2010 UFC fight night Florian versus Gomi took place in Charlotte, North Carolina. Florian won via submission in the main event

over Takanori Gomi. Roy Nelson knocked out Stefan Shrewd and the co-main events only March 31st event ever for the UFC and Bellator also had one event on March 31st. That was five years ago, 2017 in Chicago,

main event, King Moe versus Rampage Jackson, King Mo gets the victory of the unanimous decision. And interestingly enough, the feature pre-lim fight for Bellator 175 was a welterweight matchup between Justin Patterson, who lost a unanimous decision to Joaquin Buckley. How about that? A lot has changed over the last five years for Numanza, Joaquin Buckley. We just got a big win in his last fight

And he had the Dust Commander, Commander Dale Brown, in his corner. So five years ago, he's fighting on the Bellator Freelins. And now guys sitting there, one of the top knockouts in the history of the sport. Got the Dust Commander in his corner. So a lot has really changed. All right.

It is 821 for those listening live right now. We're about to knock the lock off the door. We're going to let you guys bust through. We're going to open it up to where. whatever you guys want. This is the free-for-all. This is where we have all the fun. You guys want to talk about anything

MMA-related, WrestleMania, whatever. Raise your hands. We'll bring you on in. It will address as many of these as we can. Let's bring in Hayden Stark. Hayden, how are you? Let's make sure you're on mute.

Hayden, are you there? Oh, we lost them. Man, we're batting like 500 today with the callers. That's not good. We can do better. than that. So whatever you guys want to talk about. I can reveal the BTL matchup if you want.

We'll do that later on. Oh boy. Tristan Gordette. What's up? Hey, what's going on, Mike? How you doing, man? I'm doing all right. My question is, so I guess a couple, I guess like last week, you started talking about

Jack Shaw, how Jack Shaw was underrated. And you felt like you should have been fighting a right guy two fights ago. And I'm like, okay. But I'm thinking to myself, like, is he better than Kyla Phillips? Is he better than Saella Mecca Medov? Is he better than Omar? I have to see him fight one of those guys before I started giving him a rank fighter. I mean, I understand where you're coming from with Jack Choice. He's got five wins. The guy has some pretty good wins on his record. I just, I don't know if he's better than those guys. I mean, I mean, and that's

a thing, too. I feel like, I feel like you, I don't know where you have these guys ranked as far as your favorite guys because I remember you would tell montel you're really high on montel jackson in the flyweight division you're really high on jeff melina you said mohammaud i guess malaya that you think he's going to be well possibly it sounded like these guys is going to beat everybody in that flyer division so like i just need to know where you got these guys ranked at some point where you got to be thinking about like hold on but can you beat these guys um referring to jack shor thank you tristan um yeah jack shor's an interesting one because he's really good he's one of those UK guys. And I understand the

sort of trepidation with some of these guys that come over from Cage Warriors and come over from that scene because they come over with a lot of fanfare and a lot of hype and great records and more oftentimes than not. They don't really come through on the big stage, but Jack Shore has so far.

He's gotten some big wins and I think Timor Vali of was sort of the litmus test matcher for him, right? What is he going to do against a guy like Timor Vali of who's probably a fringe top 15 guy? Probably 18, 19, maybe top 20, somewhere around there. And that fight was awesome. And Timor has a chin on him.

Holy moly. And Jackstrow went out there and got the job done. So that's a great win. This division is just so crazy right now. 135 is so deep and so loaded that, like, you have your top guys. But then if you look from maybe 12 to 40, you can mix and match a lot of these guys. And all of them have really good. Look at Chris Gutierrez right now.

Chris Gutierrez coming off that. crazy knockout win, the spinning back fist against Dina Bacaree. Dena Bacchre was a very underrated guy. Chris Gutierrez is unbeaten his last seven fights. He's a super underrated guy. So it just says more about this division and there's just so many great fights. But breaking into the top 15 is going to be really tough, man. It's going to be really difficult to do.

And a lot of the guys that are in the top 15 that have worked so hard to get there, they're going to want to try to fight guys ahead of them. And it's going to be really difficult right now because when you get these unranked tough guys like Syed, like Jack Shore, like Gutierrez. The risk reward factor just isn't really there. It's not high on the reward factor. But this division, especially in that point, I'm ready to see some movement, but it's going to be really tough to get there.

I got to make this happen right now. Is this for real, Regan Al in the house? What's going on? Yo, I'm mute. Hey, Al. What's up? How are you? What's going on?

What a surprise? Yeah, I woke up. and I show you guys who are on. I like this in the morning. This is good. The morning radio show, the MMA radio show. It hasn't been done.

Why not, Al? We deserve it. All the other sports have, but why can't M.A have? And why not you, my man? I love it. I've probably my best. So I've been following this whole week

and it seems like recently Ariel is big on the open scoring. I don't know. To me, it seems like the open scoring thing. How do you feel about the open scoring? I feel like that traumatic, it changes everything.

That would change the sport. You know? How, though? How would it change it? It takes away. I think it just in between rounds, that's what you'd look at. You know, in between every round, everyone's going to be looking up at the scoreboard.

You know? And how many guys does it really affect? Like, I think it would just change a lot. It would change the va like that just the end, just the everything. I think even like, even like bad judging, that's like part of the, that's like even like part of the sport now.

I don't know. You're with it. You're with open scoring. You like it. I mean, I'm not as passionate about it as Ariel is and some other folks, but I mean, I see value in it because like look at Matt Brown.

Like the map round situation. He thought he won the first two rounds. He would have obviously approached the third round, Not that he didn't give everything he had there. But like one of the big reasons against open scoring, Al, is that it's going to change the way the third round is. Like the guy who's up two rounds potentially is going to coast and just try to like run around the cage and do everything he can to just avoid any sort of risk taking. And I don't know if I buy that, especially with the way things are structured and there's bonus money and all that stuff and like all this other stuff. Like, do you really think out, do you think that if you, let's just put yourself in it in this situation.

Let's say you're fighting somebody. You're up 2018. You know you're up 2018. Would that change the way you fought in the third round? Or would you continue to go for the kill? Like, how would you approach it if you knew you were up two rounds and all three judges scorecards? Yeah, you know, I don't know. I'll tell you one thing, though. If I thought I was up two rounds and then they flashed to the scorecards in between the second and the third. and I find out now that I'm down, I might have a mental breakdown. I might jump over the cage and attack the judges. I don't know. But you could also choose not to look at the scoreboard.

Very true. But then what's the point of it? I think it's more for the, like, some fighters would want to know. Like some fighters would be completely new. I remember watching the first Invicta card where they had the open scoring. and some the fighters were all over it,

some of the coaches were all over it, but there were certain fighters and coaching staff so they're like, do not even look at it. Like don't look at it at all. Like you have an option. They can flash it on the board and if you want to look and it's hard not to, you can. But if you choose not to and just ignore the noise,

like you can do that too. So it's weird. We got to figure out a way to do it. But I would like, I think what I just want to see out is I just want to see it attempted. I want to see it tried out. Like give it a six-month. run. Different commissions, like give it a six month run and see how it works. Like if it affects

nothing, then get rid of it. If it makes the fights better, if it makes things more interesting, keep it. Like, just try it. Just give it a shot. If it doesn't work, fine. If it does, I mean, great. Like, you have a new exciting thing. And if you, if it doesn't work at all, like, changes nothing. Like, we just go right back to the way things were, right? Yeah, I guess that's a good point but I just have a feeling that it sounds all good in theory but then when you add something like that in it just changes it's just going to change the experience I don't know I'm I can understand why in certain situations it would have been useful but in 99% of fighting and MMA and especially in the UFC I think it's I think we're in that aspect we just need better

judging. We need to figure out the judging. Having having the fighters know that there's a bad judge. It's I'd rather have good judging in and then we don't we don't need to let the fighters know that they're down. And it's it's it's that's the beauty of of fighting sports is that you don't know. The fighters got to go out there without really knowing if they're if they're winning, if they're losing, you know, it could be close. You might have to pull you might have to finish them this round.

where in the open scoring, it would, all right, you have to finish him this round. You know, it's like, oh, you might have to. There's a little bit of mystery in there. I don't know. I think it's, I just, I'm an old school guy. I like the old school way. It's been this way forever.

I think to add something like that, to add something like that where it's like, let's test it out for six months. It's a little, a little, it's a lot to do something like that in such a, it's definitely in the UFC, to play around with something like that. I could understand an Invicta.

I don't know. How has it been going in Invicta? I mean, so far so good. It's there and it's an option. And as a fan, it kind of takes away some of the mystery. I will say that because you know what's going to happen. If you go to unless it's like a third round and like the judges are all over the place of the first two, like it's one one after two rounds.

Like there is still some mystery if it's a three round fight. But for the most part, if a fighter's up two rounds and it goes the distance. and there's no surprise when Joe Martinez or whoever the ring announcer is reading the score. So I get it from like a fan's perspective. It kind of takes some of the mystery out of it because when Bruce Buffer is reading off split decisions, it's, I mean, it's dramatic television. That's intense, right? That's like the most intense against the fight's intense.

But then when it's a barn burner of a fight, and they're up there, both guys are exhausted, you know, the refs in between. you don't know which hand he's going to raise. Like, that's, to take that away from an experience, to me, that's, I don't know, that's a big part of the, that's a big part of the fight game. But, yeah, it's, are you going to be in Jacksonville? I will be there. I'll be in Aljo's corner.

I will be there as well. Maybe we can, maybe we can have a little chat down there. Absolutely, 100%. That would be amazing. Al, your insight is impeccable. I appreciate you very much. I appreciate you, my man. Keep up, keep up the good work.

The MMA, the MMA fighting morning show. Let's do it. I'm in. Let's do it. Let's make it happen. On location, Jacksonville, Florida, heck and Iaquinta. We can put your name first, whatever you want. No, no, you're the man.

Let's do it. Thank you, Al. All right, take care. The magic of morning radio, my friends. How about that? Rage and Al, coming in talking open school. scoring good stuff might as well make an announcement here

because we got somebody joining us on the line right now mr new york rick who is uh had an interesting week weighed in on the will smith chris rock controversy take has not been treated very well if you will i mean eric has been known to uh to be on those scenes but now we have to add another thing that's the associates him

with the m m m a hour the ronda rousey take and now we get to throw this take on there. And New York Rick has an opportunity to take on Connor Burks on BTL. Some breaking news. 3 p.m. Eastern. It's New York Rick versus Connor Burks on BTL. The MMA hour backstage

team are getting after it. New York Rick, good morning, my man. How are you? A heck of a morning, Mike. Great show so far. Let me correct the record a little bit on a few things. One, Connor has the opportunity to take on me. I don't have the opportunity to take on Connor. Let's

let's just be extremely clear about who the A side of this is and who the veteran in the game is. And two, I think history will be kind to my take. I think Connor and Ariel in particular have gone a little hard on the timeline of my prediction that Will Smith and Chris Rock will be working together and doing the interviews and in a movie together. I think history will be kind. I think we will see that happen. Is it going to happen within a week? Did I mean for it to be taken so literally? No.

But again, you know, as is usually the case in these things, history will prove me correct. And, you know, as it relates to the Ronda take, you know, let's just get into that. Nobody now a bigger, a more vocal advocate for mental health than Ariya Hawani, yet somehow that take has been forgotten on what it actually was meant to signify. But, you know, this is not the time or place for that. Let's have a conversation about open scoring, which I thought, you know, leave it to. the New Yorker Ally Aquinta to just nail it. This will materially change the sport in a way that we are seeing measured right now. Like I think you, Mike, said, let's see it tried.

Kansas is trying it. It has been tried. And it has made no material difference to the fight. And nobody is kind of talking about that. Everybody seems to be operating in this nebulous space where hypothetically it's going to have X effect when in actuality it has had any effect that has been noticeable or made anybody want to change it. As an example of something in the sport that was tried and then did have an effect early morning wayans. That was something that was tried, seen the success of, and then

implemented. Open scoring is being tried right now and not one other commission is looking at it and saying, yeah, this is something that we need to do. So I think that speaks volumes. And as far as MMA versus boxing versus NBA versus NFL. It's not that sport. This is primarily an entertainment product. It is not a meritocracy as far as fights being put together is concerned, nor is it a stick and ball X is an O sport. It's an entertainment product,

and that will hurt the entertainment value of the fights if we know going in to the third round that somebody is going to either coast. And I said this on the MMA hour, and this take was met with a lot more support, I don't think it's only the fighter who's up who's potentially going to coast out of a fight. I think there's a high

potential for if a fighter is down two rounds to just pack it up, but not quit or not throw in the towel because they don't want to be seen as somebody who does that and just kind of coast through the rest of the fight. I think it will hurt the entertainment side of the product and that's the end of my rant.

I mean, this guy a little teaser for for BTL when he when Connor Berks tries to challenge him and knock him off the top of the Mount New York Rick. Great stuff. Hey listen, I mean, I'm saying try outside of Kansas.

And I know other commissions are looking at it and they don't think it makes much of a difference and they think things are the way they are. But I'm not saying like UFC 273, like let's just do open scoring and just introduce it for Jan Ster. or Volkovsky, Korean zombie, or anything like that, throw it on the contender series.

Like, do it on the contender series. That would be a nice little spot to try it. People care about the contender series, but it's not like, we're not getting a million pay-per-view buys in the contender series. Like, try something. Just try it, Vegas. Just try it.

And if it does nothing, then it does nothing. But, I mean, on the contender series, you would think that if it's going to improve or if it's going to entice the fighters to give it their best effort, especially knowing they're down too, rounds and there's a freaking UFC contract on the line. Maybe they'll step it up a little bit.

But maybe try it there and see how it works. I know just seeing it in Victor, I know like some of the smaller regional shows have tried doing it too, but I haven't really heard much in terms of results. But like I said, to the great raging ally Quinta, it's a conversation, but it's not something that like we have to have open scoring

or we don't have to have open scoring. I'd like to see it tried, like on a bigger scale. But if it doesn't happen, it's okay. We got to get big effing brass in here. He's been waiting patiently. Let's see if we can get him on. Big effing brass. Are you there?

Hello. Good morning. Oh, no. All right, try again. KRL, you are next. KRL, how are you? Just got on mute. Hey, Mike, how's it going?

Good, how are you? Good, good. I like just woke up and I woke up and turned my phone on and joined the two yearspaces at a single, single sip of coffee. But regarding this whole open scoring thing, I do think that most of the people are a lot of the arguments that come in from certain fighters pertain to the fact that in a lot of cases, like Matt Brown, Matt Brown was like positive that he won. So the judging issue, I think, is really important, too. I was pretty confident that he did not win. And I think that there's a type of frustration that occurs with that.

So how do you think that fighters' understanding of the judging criteria factors in this conversation? I mean, there's so many holes in the judging, KRL. It's unbelievable. the judging sucks right now. There are some good judges. But I mean, here's the thing. And I've said this many times. Who the hell wants to be a judge right now?

There's like no money in it. And you never get praised for a good scorecard, but you get dumped on for a crappy scorecard. Poor Derek Cleary. I mean, I have just destroyed that man over the last couple of weeks since the UFC London card. That 3027 scorecard for Corey McKenna was awful. It was so bad.

but you never get praised for, oh, that was a great 29, 28. And you get paid like a couple cups of Dunkin' Donut coffee, maybe a dozen munchkins in a couple hundred bucks. Like, no one wants to be a judge. And why would you be? There's no incentive. Like little kids, when they go off to school for career day, are not getting up in front of their classmates and saying,

I want to be an MMA judge. No one's saying that because there's no incentive to be an MMA judge. It's got to be the most miserable. job ever. But I can see like fighters doing it. I can see fighters doing it because it's just they love the sport that much. And there are people out there that are passionate enough about the sport that could be good judges. But right now we don't have that.

There are some fighters who do judge on the regional scene. They do. But for the most part, like these are people who work for the commission and they're like, okay, this MMA thing, I'll judge that. Or they're boxing judges and they don't know how to. the score of me. They don't know the new criteria, or at least they don't have it down. But I'd like to see, we're seeing MMA, former MMA fighters, seeing like Frank Trigg, we've seen Chris Lieben, seen some other fighters going over to the referee side of things.

I'd like to see some more fighters come over to the judging side of things because it would make things more interesting. They care, they're passionate about it. They know what they're talking about. These are the kinds of things that need to change, but just passionate maybe even like a passionate fan like find a way to make it interesting and find a way to inspire better judging by becoming a judge yourself but I understand

why you wouldn't because there's no incentive in it there's no money and no one gives a shit it's just it's so brutal but I would like to see fight like I like see more if I just do it because they love the sport and they love just watching the fights and then maybe they can sort of control the narrative a little more but it sucks to be a judge and I would never

want to do it let's get a heat in here he's been probably waiting the longest and then I see another very special guest who wants to jump in here and we'll get to him in a moment. Ah, Heid, how are you? Hey, Mike. Hi, everyone. How are you? Good. How are you? Not too bad. So, okay, open scoring. So I was on, this is a topic that Ariel talks about a lot. I was on Ariel's green room show a couple of times. He's brought this up. and then like I'm opposed to it like one of the reasons is because of what I'll said about

it takes away sort of the naturalness of like it being a fight and it turning it into a bit more of a game like as in you know you will know that fighters will try to like play this type of thing of if they're ahead they're going to try and coast and maybe they'll look to take you down it'll just be body body head and no matter how many times the ref says they told the fighters in the back, like not to do that. We know that it plays out on the ground. They end up doing this body, body head or like a couple

jabs on the feet and just, you know, just really just trying to coast out the round. What I try to suggest was and also if it's just open scoring, that doesn't actually change the quality of the judges, right? Like, I hope people realize this is just people will know

more, but in terms of the actual quality could end up being, like I said people complain more, but how much does that really change? People have always been complaining. So I thought like, yeah, we've got to change the quality. I thought maybe we could have different sections of judges, like bringing judges from Muay Thai, bringing judges from jiu-jitsu, bringing judges from wrestling and then also bringing the old fighters.

I brought this up. I'll shut it down completely saying, oh, do you think Chuck Lidau wants to spend his time doing this? Yeah, I do. I think people want to give back. There's fighters going into like media. There's fighters going into different things to give back to mixed martial arts to be a better, like, yeah, to add more of their time to it. So I do think we should have those different sections because right now it's just boxing.

Yeah, they don't really understand fully like as a full combat, you know. So bringing these different people. For example, like one person I'd love to see judge, apart from his own fighters, is coach Duke Rufus. Like, as in he loves, from a striking point, he loves and talks about it so passionately. But obviously, don't let him, like, coaches on, like judges on fighters. But the point is, it's like bringing people like that as in just to really, from different specialities. And yeah, we could do it that way. That's my two cents.

Thank you, Ahid. Good stuff right there. Yeah, one interesting point that you brought up was now we know how the judges look at each and every round. Like poor Derek Cleary would have got destroyed at UFC London. Like each and every round, we would have just absolutely annihilated him on social media. So I can understand why judges don't want to score. Their job is hard enough. And now you have to deal with it more.

At least like, at least you get to wait until the fight. over before a judge gets crushed on social media, and now you get to crush him every round. Yeah, that's tough. I get what you're saying. And now we bring in the co-host, the co-matchmaker, from on to the next one, my best friend and yours. I made it.

Good morning. I made it. I'm so excited. My best friend, what a great show you're having. This is the second episode, right? This is number two, yeah. Fantastic. What a way to wake up.

And I just, I just mentioned this to our dear New York, Rick. What a way to wake up with people calling out this open scoring agenda that is being pushed by the elitist, Aero Hohwani and the MMA hour. I'm so glad. I'm sorry, I haven't heard the entire show. I don't want to repeat everything that New York Rick said and some of our very, very intelligent listeners are said. But I do hear that a lot of people are having a moderate, level-headed approach to the open-scoring discussion and not suggesting that implement. it will create some utopia for MMA. Is that correct for what I'm hearing so far?

It's no one's really supported it here. It all started with Reginala Iquinta. He brought it to the table and it has been the open scoring conversation for the last 25 minutes. And no one really seems to be on aerial side here. Well, let me say, obviously, I think the opinions of Ally Quinta and Matt Brown are so valuable. I mean, they are like, they are legit. They are actual fighters. They have, and it's very experienced.

fighters who have seen it all, who have been on both sides of decisions, you know, close calls, close calls that went their way, close calls that didn't go their way. So I think like as far as fighters go, I like went to Matt Brown, two guys you definitely want to listen to, whether I agree. And Al, I assume was four open scoring. No, he was not. Oh, okay. I mean, he was like, maybe we could try it, but he didn't know. He's not into it. Well, definitely. He's not. Definitely. Ariel's on a, on an island by himself, it seems, at least, at least according to heck of a morning listeners. So I will say I'm a little more moderate than New York, Rick is I do agree.

It's certainly worth trying. I just, I'm just always pushing back against the discussion that it is like, oh, it will, it is such a has to be done thing. And I know you mentioned that, Mike. You said, let's try a contender series. I think it's an awesome idea. I think it's great. They've been doing it in Invicta and in Kansas and some other small cards.

So I agree it's worth trying. But I just want people to have their expectations sort of, you know, kept to a certain level as far as what effect it might have. It might be great. It might be great. I'm not saying it can't be, but I just, there's this strong side of people who are,

like it seems everyone who's for open scoring, they're like crypto bros. It's like, it's like, it's like you have to make it a lifestyle. You can't just like kind of think it's a good idea. You have to be all in. And that's like,

no idea is like that in MMA. Everything is like okay and okay idea. But you have to, you have to be, you know, you have to have some self-control here. I'm talking about this. Now,

I will push back on some of the things you mentioned. Can I do that in your morning show? I mean, how dare you? Go ahead. I don't like to start the morning off with conflict. I'm glad we're all mostly in agreement that open scoring needs more scrutiny. But I don't like the idea to say of fighters becoming judges. I think Matt Brown said this too on the May hour.

That, you know, they could be too biased. He said he's not a fan. They could be too. Now, everyone's going to have biases. Fighters, depending on depending on where you get them from, depending on their level of experience. I'm sure there's something there who could be more impartial. but I feel like people would want to push

sort of more well-known names in there and I just don't know any well-known names that wouldn't have ties to so many fighters and camps and regions and things like that. So it's not the worst idea. I do like them being referees. Judges might be a bit difficult to parse. Fighters, I don't think this is something you mentioned,

but fighters, yeah, a lot of people touch on this. Not knowing their criteria is just, I don't know how they can make an argument for open scoring when so many of them clearly say like they don't understand the criteria. Again, all the respect to Matt Brown I thought Brian Barbarian had won that fight If you're Matt Brown, of course he thought you won

You're in there, you're the one doing the work You can't say he's wrong Just as an outsider, I thought I thought Barbrain, I did not find that to be a robbery And I do agree with Some with New York Rick that like Knowing the score at the end Might mess with the fighter's head in a different way

Whether they're up or down Because again, I suppose if you don't know the criteria And you thought you were up two rounds And you find that you're down to I don't know what that's going to do to you. I don't know what that's going to do to you. I don't know what's going to make you more effective I just totally screw you up, but there's really no way to know.

And the last thing I'll say is, I actually disagree with judging, Mike. I actually think judging is better than ever. And this is something Eric McGrake and a great lawyer out of Vancouver tweeted on yesterday. That actually, actually, judging is actually really good, which is what makes those bad scorecards stand out so much. When we see the occasional, like, I don't even want to name names because I actually think, like I said, judging is not terrible. We don't give enough credit, I think, for how well the judges have done with some really close fights over the last year, 18 months. So yes, there's still terrible, terrible, terrible cards that should be mentioned. Those judges should be named and shamed.

But I think people would be surprised that they sort of reviewed all these kind of close fights that have happened recently. Judges actually kind of do an okay job. So they could be way better. Absolutely, they could be better. I don't think it's in this dire state. I actually think judging is okay, needs improvement, but is okay. I've had very few chances to do robbery reviews lately. I put it that way.

So there we go. That's my long piece. I apologize for all the listeners for having to put up with that. the best friend you are right i will say like the arizona commission those judges the benson henderson islam momidoff fight they nailed it benson henderson won that fight just saw it this past saturday kai kha france against asker askeroff judges got it right kai kha ran that fight he deserved to win and all of them got it right so well done and you're right okay you are right The judging, those who judge correctly are getting better,

but those who don't judge correctly are getting worse. So that's the way I look at it. But yeah, you make a great point that some of the judging has improved and it sticks out when it's really, really terrible. All right, we're going to take a few more. We had a couple people waiting. So we'll get through them and then we'll call it a morning. Mixed Marshall car accidents?

What's up? Are you there? make sure you unmute good morning oh no you're muted again what happened come back all right how about wally let's get wally in here good morning wally all right there you i think i'm unmuted hello how are you i'm good i wanted to get your thoughts on a fighter that not many people talk about or at least i don't hear him talk about uh javid basherat i think i'm i mean it's too fights that I've seen looks very dynamic. Do you think he has a title run in him?

I like Javid Basharadal quite a bit. He is a very good prospect. I liked his performance on the contender series, especially everything he had to go through on the build to that contender series, the way-ins and everything that happened, some of the awful sort of racist, racist things that were said about him

during that face-off. And then he goes out and finishes the guy and gets a UFC contract. So I, the guy's good, man. He's 12 and 0. He's undefeated for a reason. He's got a great personality. He seems like a really nice guy.

A guy that you could sort of build around in terms, like for those who look at the sport in a negative light, Javi Bosharad is one of those guys where you're like, okay, this is an intelligent, very talented guy who speaks well and can fight his ass off and his must watch television. So the Oren Callan win on the contender series, the big submission win,

that was great. Trevin Jones is a very tough matchup for a lot of fighters. And to fight Trevin Jones in a UFC debut and perform the way that he did, tremendous stuff. Tremendous stuff. Title run, I think it's a little too early to say because, again,

we're looking at a division that Chris Gutierrez and Jack Shore, and some of these other guys are not ranked in right now. So it's going to be a little, I mean, we talked about this earlier. Getting into the top 15 at 135 is very, very difficult right now. It's very tough to do.

Does he have the talent to eventually get there? I think so. But too early to say whether or not he's a guy to make a run for a title. We've got to see more and it's going to be a little bit, it's going to be a little while before he gets that chance. All right, Dana Spite. You are the final word, my man. Good morning.

Are you there? Dana Spite. Five seconds. Dana Spite, are you there? Oh, no. All right. Man, Stevie Ray gets the last word. Stevie Ray, how are you?

I'm good, mate. Are you there? How are you doing today, mate? Good, yourself. Yeah, all good. I was just wondering your thoughts on a too lightweight contenders. So obviously, it's been a while since we've seen Grega Gillespie fight, and Raphael Fitzier as well, obviously,

his fight with RDA, got cancelled, you know, fight night. What do you think's next for those two? Obviously, they're both in the top ten, both making a run towards the up end of that division. And obviously, all the old dogs in that division are kind of falling away of it, aren't they, your likes of, like, Dustin and, like, Chandler and stuff like that. So what's next for those two? Great question.

Very high on both of those guys. Greg Gillespie, coming out that crazy fight with CDF, and then Viziv, man, there's two options. I think Fiziv is probably in a slightly better position because he was paired with RDA and the fight got called with it was no fault of his own.

So, I mean, if they could rebook the RDA fight, I'd be fine with that for Fiziv. I liked how everybody talked about it, the Raphael versus Hafiel matchup. I'd like to see it. I'd like to see how good Fiziv is. RDA looked really good in that last fight. Or, I mean, I think Fiziziv's a little bit ahead.

If Gillespie doesn't get the Fiziv fight, unfortunately, I think he's going to be in a really tough spot, and he's probably going to have to fight Armand Sarukian, and that is a nightmare matchup for almost every guy in that division. Although Gregor Gillespie brings some interesting challenges to Serochian, I think that's what we do. Fiziv might have to wait and see a little. bit. I'd like to see if they could try to book the RDA fight because I don't think RDA

is getting these big fights that he wants. I just don't see it happening. So maybe rebook the RDAA-Fiziv fight and then Gillespie. I think Gillespie Fiziv could happen, but I actually think that Gillespie is going to end up fighting Armand Saurukia. And that just is a tough matchup, man. It's a really tough fight, really tough fight. But I would like to see it. I'd like to see how that would play out because that'd be a really good test for Sauru Kian. Gillespie is a a tricky, tricky dude, and I'd be really interested in seeing that fight. So I hope that's what we see. With that said, it is almost 9 o'clock, Eastern time in the morning, and I got to get to work. I got to get to work. I got to write articles. I've got to put this podcast together. I've got

to do a whole bunch of stuff. So you guys are the best. We are two shows down. We'll be back again. The good news is we'll be back again tomorrow. We'll be back again tomorrow morning at 8 a.m. and we'll close out the week in the right way and another addition of heck of a morning. And maybe we'll just do the free-for-all segment straight through. We'll just take calls the entire time. Maybe I'll just rant for like two minutes. And then we'll turn it over to you and we'll let you guys get after it.

Maybe that's how we'll handle Fridays. Because this is the first week. We're still trying to get the pieces together and figure out how we're going to handle all this. But what a great show. We had some very special guests. We heard from Jed, New York, Rick, AK. We heard from Ally Quinta,

who started this open scoring. conversation and what a show it has been. So I appreciate you guys very much. For those listening on the podcast network, you're going to get an interview with Danny Sabatello as he prepares to earn his spot in the Bellator Bantam White Grand Prix. And then BTL, if you missed it, it's going down for all you MMA hour fans.

New York Rick taking on G.C. Connor Burke's 3 p.m. Eastern MMA fighting YouTube channel. Watch it live. You can listen after the fact. on the MMA fighting podcasting network. So thank you all very much. I am Ikech.

Have a heck of a morning. We'll see you tomorrow. All right. Let's say hello once again to Danny Sabatello, who the last time he was on this program, was not a happy camper because the Belator Bannamway Grand Prix, the lineup, the brackets, the seedings. Seatings were not really,

but the brackets were all put out there. His name was not on it. And then we found out last week that his name is now on it, but at least kind of like the NCAA tournament. Used to have 64 teams and it had 68. We had a couple of play-in games. Now we got ourselves some play-in fights at Bellator 278, April 22nd in Hawaii. Danny Sabatello is fighting Jornel Lugo,

which is actually one of the fights that he wanted, but an opportunity to enter the Grand Prix chance to become the interim champion and win a million dollars is now yours, Danny. How are you? Dude, awesome. And it's great to have this opportunity just because I was really, really pissed off honestly that I wasn't in the Grand Prix. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think about it a lot. But I am excited that I get to have Jordan Al Lugo because I've actually

been calling them out for years now. We're both from South Florida and I've been calling them out even on the regional scene. So it's kind of just the cherry on top of the cake, getting to fight this pussy. I remember, I remember even since you got to Bellator, since you won your Belator debut and you beat Brett Johns, Joan Al Lugo is one of the names you've always had on your coming coming out of your mouth. When was the first time you called him out? Do you remember? I think it was in Titan. After one of my wins, I was calling him out just because, you know, people think he's a good fighter. And honestly, I think he sucks. I think it's an easy fight for me, but it's also a good fight for me because I could steal his thunder. I think he's 8 and 0 right now.

So it's going to be a good win. You know, he also had that went over Brian Moore and Dublin, Ireland, I believe maybe just like a month or two ago. So he's gained some momentum and people think he's good. just going to be even better for me when I go out there and just absolutely dog him. So let's go back to last week because we found out that Sergio Pettis was injured, out of the Grand Prix altogether, injury required surgery, found it was a torn ACL. So we're like, okay, there's a glaring spot that needs to be filled. We find out Warn Archeretta is now going to fight Rafian Stott's for the interim title. Then we found out later that same day that James Galaher is out as well, already had surgery.

He's out of the Grand Prix. so we have these two glaring spots. Scott Coker said after Josh Hill's knockout win over Jared Skuggins, he is an alternate. Like this is the alternate for the Bannamweight Grand Prix. So I just assumed when I woke up the next morning, Josh Hill would be the guy and there would be one spot left. Turns out now Josh Hill has to fight in a play and fight.

You're fighting in a play and fight as well. When were you made aware of all these moves, all these different things happening? When did you know that you were, you had an opportunity to fight for a million dollars now. Yeah, I think it was last week I got the call for my manager that I was going to fight Jordan Al Lugo. But at the time, it was not for the Grand Prix.

It was just to fight him. But I kind of thought something was up because I noticed on the card was also Barzola versus Hill. And I just thought, you know, these are kind of like two fights where any four of us could be in the wild card position. So I didn't know if, you know, maybe they were going to surprise us and make it a 16-man bracket. and then our fights also counted.

But I just like how it played out. It's kind of like a wild card situation. You know, this is basically the playoffs. You know, every sport has a playoffs. This is the playoffs for MMA. And in the playoffs, there's always a wild card game. Same thing in baseball. So it's awesome.

But yeah, I got the call from my manager last week. I'm fighting Jordan Al Lugo. I'm so fucking pumped about that. I'm already head over heels about this matchup. I know I'm going to smash him. He calls back maybe the next day, two days later. And he said, guess what? You're in the motherfucking Grand Prix.

I was so happy. I've never been so happy. I was screaming, fuck, yeah, maybe for five minutes straight. So it all just worked out in the end. You know, I was so pissed about it, not being in it. And now that I'm in it, it just makes it even sweeter now since I thought I wasn't going to be in it. And I know these guys are scared, too.

You know, I know Higo is going to be watching this fight. And I know once he sees I beat the shit out of Jordan El Lugo, he's going to be scared to fight me. I was going to say I felt I thought Josh Hill got screwed the most out of everybody because like I said he's the guy that's supposed to get the spot hit the president of the freaking company is like he's our alternate so not only does he have a play and fight but he has a play and fight to fight maga mad maga made off no offense to leandro ego you're fighting journal lugo and the winner gets to fight leandro no disrespect to anybody but I feel like you guys got the better better draw here. Is that how you feel too? Yeah, I agree for sure, but also Josh Hill sucks. I mean, he got that big knockout. He had a good overhand right. I think it was that knocked out his last opponent. But other than that, too, Josh Hill sucks. I would fuck him up. I think it is actually kind of seated in this wild card situation. Barzola's good. I see Barzola actually beating

Josh Hill. And then, of course, I beat Jordan Al Lugo. But yeah, I know Joshua was said to be the alternate of it. But I think even Scott Koker knows, Joshua's not that good. He has power in his hands because he's a short little midget and, you know, he's very stocky, but he's not a very good fighter. I don't see him being good all around and I actually see Barzola having his way with them. You get to take a trip to Hawaii. That's not too shabby, right? You get to fight for a million dollars. You get a fight that you've wanted for years and you get to do it in freaking Hawaii. I mean, it doesn't get much better than this, Danny. No, it really doesn't. And plus, I was supposed to fight I think it was a month, maybe two months ago in St. Louis

against a guy named Richie Palencia who fucking backed out of the fight like a little bitch, of course. And I was so pissed about it. Just because, man, I haven't fought in like 10 months and people keep ducking the fight. So I was pissed about that. And then when I get this opportunity, fuck yeah, it's going to be in Hawaii instead of St. Louis.

And it's going to be in the Grand Prix instead of just a normal fight against some nobody. So it really all played out. I just got to make the most of the opportunity. So how many fights have you been officially offered since the Brett Johns win? I think two. No, three since Brett Johns. Because I had the one where I was going to fight and then I got Corona.

Oh, that's right. The Johnny Campbell fight. Johnny Campbell, yeah. I was there. And then like the day before weigh-ins, I got Corona in the exit, which, I mean, man, I was so fucking pissed about that. That sucked. Especially because I know you can have Corona and not have symptoms,

but I had no symptoms, so I just kind of wanted to retest and they wouldn't let me. But anyways, that's in the past. And then I think two more times. But you know what? It all worked out in the end. Like I keep saying, and it's just, it really is a dream come true. I'm glad it played out this way. And I love where I'm at in the bracket. Again, I love Jordan El Lugo. I love that matchup. He sucks. I think I dog him against Tigo. I think he only has jiu-jitsu. So I think I kind of expose him that he's not really an all-around fighter. And then I just go from there. I've spoken to you before your last couple of fights, even before the Johnny Campbell fight, even after the Johnny Campbell fight and the Corona everything, you weren't this excited to fight anybody else. Like, you have this look in your eye. Like, you were excited to fight Brett Johns. I think we had to deal with the weight cut and everything, so you're a little pissed about that. But you seem very excited about this. Why do you, why do you love this matchup so much from a stylist's perspective? Why do you think he sucks? Yeah, he seemed just more of a point fighter.

I saw his last fight, and then I think the last one before that was Keith Lee, where he rear-naked choke the guy. But against Brian Moore, I just feel like he was softball starting off the fight, kind of tapped him, tapped him, jabbed him. It doesn't really have much power in his hands. The fight didn't really go to the ground because neither of them have good grappling. So I know his ground game sucks. I know he's going to try to keep the fight mainly on the feet, but I think it's, his, uh, stand-up game sucks. I know he switches stances also. I think he's going to try to do that with me. I think he's going to try to be tricky, but it's just not going to happen. I think sooner or later,

he's going to get to a point in the fight where he realizes he needs a finish. You know, he's got to knock me out. He's not going to submit me on the ground. My ground's too good. He's got to knock me out and he's going to get desperate. And sometimes when you get desperate, you get tired because you're just throwing everything behind it. And that's when you don't knock the guys out. And then I think I just expose him. I mean, I've played this fight out maybe 500 times already in my head. And I dominate him every single time. You know, I'm very excited because, you know, this is a fight that I think it's going to have people saying, okay, you know what?

That fight against Brett Johns when he dominated him, that wasn't a fluke. Because look what he's doing against an eight and no guy that has a little bit of thunder. That's also in this Grand Prix tournament. And I think it's just going to be great for my career. I felt, I mean, I felt from the get go that you're the dark horse of this tournament without even being in it. and a lot of people thought I was crazy for that, but maybe it's just because they're not all that familiar with you yet. I mean, it's just one of those things where we have a lot of new fans,

a lot of new promotions. Maybe they weren't around to see your contender series fight when you're 30, 24, 30, 23 in fighters, not getting a contract. Here you are at Bellator. You spoil the debut of Brett Johns. And maybe a lot of people feel like, you know, maybe this isn't the most aesthetically pleasing style, but you've said it a million times.

If you don't like it, get up and do something about it. And a lot of your past opponents hadn't been able to do that. So do you feel like is Dark Horse the right term here? Or do you feel like you're above that at this point? No, I do think I'm a Dark Horse just because people don't know my name. I think the people that do know my name don't consider me a Dark Horse. I bet a lot of people are going to be betting on me for this matchup and really throughout the tournament. But just because I don't have, you know, a million followers on Instagram,

I would consider myself a Dark Horse simply just because my name's not out there enough. But I will say my last fight wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but people got to keep in mind, I took that fight on about five days notice. So I think I do have high expectations from people. You know, I read the stuff online, and when they're complaining about me not finishing a guy of Brett Johns

caliber on five days notice, that just shows people have pretty high expectations for me. So thank you. You know, that guy was, I think he only lost the Pedro, um, and El Jermin Sterling. Um,

and if people are expecting me to finish a guy like that, on five days notice, I'll take it. Maybe I'm not a dark horse. Maybe I'm a favorite in this tournament. Who knows if those are the expectations. But I mean, to me, it doesn't really matter. People can think what they want. It doesn't fucking matter.

You know, if you like me, I like you. If you don't like me, go fuck yourself. It doesn't matter to me. It's all fun to me either way. But yeah, I'm just pumped. And my fight's going forward. Now that I do have a full training camp, I mean, I'm just going to absolutely dog, John Al Lugo,

and it's going to be very exciting. You're still at ATT, right? Yeah, absolutely. And how's the vibe over there right now? Because I know a lot has happened. Obviously, there's always big fights coming up. But over the last month or so, everything that happened with Mazadol and Colby and things that happened after Mazadol and Colby fought at UFC 272,

how would you describe the vibe at ATT right now? Yeah, it's not as chaotic as you think. I think the management and the coaches do a good job of making everyone feel welcome and just kind of making it about themselves. But, you know, it's hard to ignore the fact that when you go on Instagram, you see Massadol beating the shit out of Colby and Colby being a bitch and pressing charges against them. And then Amanda Nunez leaving and then maybe Peter Yan coming back to American Top Team. You know, there's a lot going on.

But I think the coaches do a good job of kind of distracting us from that, you know, having us take a deep breath, realize, you know what? Yes, these are our teammates, but these are our own careers and we have to worry about ourselves. So from the outsider's perspective, I bet you'd think, you know, if you stepped in the gym, there'd just be like so much fucking going on. But, you know, speaking for myself specifically, I'm just focused on this fight. I even have another teammate in this tournament, Keoguchi, that is on the other side. He's actually like a good friend of mine. A lot of people don't know this, but he cornered me for my first four fights. So there's a little bit going on there.

But, you know, when you're the best gym in the world and you have the best training partners and you have the best competition, this shit's going to happen. People are going to come and go. There's going to be feuds. But honestly, these are good problems to have. You know, these smaller gyms wish they could have the problems American top team has. So, you know, it's brutal sometimes, you know, sometimes don't play out the way you want it to, especially how Massvedol and Colby has played out.

And I still don't think that's over. But, you know, they're good problems. This only happens to the top guys anyways. Do you think they fight again? Like, not in the street, but do you think like the UFC sees this as an opportunity to rebook a remit? Because that was my first thought. Before the charges repress, I'm like, we know what's going to happen here. like they're just going to fight again because we didn't really we weren't clamoring for a rematch

but after this we were all clamoring for a match the charges might change things but if colby comes out and just says i'll drop the charges if you fight me again inside the octagon like it seems like a no brain do you think these guys will fight again i do and there's just so much money behind that fight too that could be one of the biggest fights in ufc history i think honestly for both guys it's dumb not to they both hate each other you know i read this stuff sometimes online where people think it's an act. I'm telling you right now, Massadol would try to murder Colby.

And I'm sure it's the other way around too. But I think it'd be dumb not to happen. I don't know if it's going to happen this year, next year, the year after. I know Massivell is getting a little up there on age, but I do think that fight should happen, and it needs to happen. And it's fun for everybody.

You know, you two, both Colby and Massville, you two hate each other, okay, go fight again. And then also for the fans, this is fun for you. For management, UFC, you'll make a lot of you'll make a lot of you. make a bunch of money. It just makes too much sense for it not to happen. Agreed. Have you and Kioji discussed the ramifications of this or what could happen? I'm sure, you know, it's one fight at a time, but the way you think, Danny, you have to be thinking that you're going to be that loan name on the left side of the

bracket, right? And you probably would favor Kioji to be the lone man on the right side of the bracket. So have you guys discussed what might happen if that is the case? You know, we haven't really talked about it since I've been in the tournaments, but we've had conversations before this about, you know what? We are probably the two best bansomites in the world, and sooner or later, we're going to need to fight. And, you know, that's just, that's what happens. You know, it's no hard feelings. He's a really good friend. He's a teammate.

But I'll fight anybody. You know, it doesn't matter. I'll find my grandma. If my grandma's in a cage, sorry, grandma, thanks for the mass of chili, but you're going down. You know, it doesn't matter who it is. I'm going to fight him. And he's the same way. He's a samurai.

He's going to fight me as well. It's unfortunate. You obviously don't want that to happen. But yeah, we both, I'm sure we both see each other in the finals. And it's going to be, it's still going to be fun, you know, just because we're friends and teammates. You know, once I get into competition mode and you're staring at me in the face and trying to take away my goals and dreams, then that I'm a different Danny Sabatel than I am when you're my teammate. But, yeah, it's unfortunate. that we might have to fight, but, you know, this is the fight game and it's a brutal business,

and it is what it is. What's the most important thing for you when it comes to this tournament? Is it just going through, proving people wrong, being the last man standing? Is it the money? Is it coming away with the interim title? Is it coming away with the opportunity to fight Sergio Pettis? This is the guy you called out, like, ASAP, as soon as you signed to the promotion, you wanted to fight Sergio Pettis.

What's like the most important thing? Is it the money? Is it the interim title? Is it the chance to fight Sergio in a main event? what sort of stands out in terms of goals for this Grand Prix? To me, it's just getting that belt. You know, my eyes are just focused on being the Belator Bantamweight champion in the world. And right now, I think the Bantamweight and Bellator is the best of any promotion.

So that speaks in itself. And, you know, the money, I'm not going to lie, the money is great. Of course, I don't have a million dollars and not having a million dollars. But, you know, there's a ton of people that have a million dollars out there. There's only one Belator Bantamweight champion in the world. So that's what I'm seeking after. I don't care what anybody says about, you know, interim belts or whatever. This is for the belts.

Just because Sergio Pettis couldn't make it to the battlefield doesn't mean that this is for the interim belt. The winner of this tournament, it's going to be me, but if it's not, is the champion. That's that. I don't care what anybody says. There's too much depth in this tournament for someone to be short-handed a belt, you know. But of course, when you win the tournament, Sergio is going to be first in line. So yeah, to me, it's win this belt. And then obviously we'll go from there.

I'll fight Sergio after that. And I'll absolutely beat the shit out of him. You know, I only call him out because I think that's an easy fight for me. You know, stylistically, very easy fight for me. And he has the belt. Of course, I'm going to call off the champ because I want to be champ. You know, right now he is the champ and he sucks. And I would absolutely beat the shit out of him.

It's unfortunate that I can't prove it. But, you know, eventually I will once I do have that belt. And once I am champion of this Grand Prix tournament. We are looking forward to that. Last thing, what's the message for Jordan Al Lugo, for the rest of your side of the bracket, for the other side of the bracket, for all the bannam weights that are in this Grand Prix,

what is the message to everybody? You're going to be getting the best Danny Sabotello and you are all fucked. Well said. We will leave it at that. Danny, congratulations on getting your opportunity. I know you've wanted this since this tournament was discussed and announced.

And now you're in. You have a chance to play some spoilers. here. So congratulations on that. All the best to you, the rest of this camp. We'll see you the end of next month in Hawaii for your chance to fight for that million bucks later on this year. Awesome. Thanks for having me on. Mike. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.