MMA Fighting - Heck of a Morning | Is Conor McGregor vs. Jorge Masvidal the Fight To Make For the UFC?

Episode Date: May 31, 2022

Conor McGregor and Jorge Masvidal had some things to say about one another recently, so would this fight between two of the UFC's biggest stars be the one to make next? On this episode of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck reacts to the back and forth between McGregor and Masvidal and whether or not that's the direction the promotion will go once "The Notorious" is medically cleared to compete. In addition, listener questions include Saturday's UFC Vegas 56 event headlined by Alexander Volkov vs. Jairzinho Rozenstruik, the UFC's two-plus month stretch of weekend fight cards, Alexander Volkanovski vs. Max Holloway 3 at UFC 276, scoring fights in modern MMA, and much more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 8 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's Tuesday, May 31st, 2022. It is indeed a heck of a morning live on the MMA fighting Twitter. spaces and then once the show wraps we'll be live on the mbay fighting podcasting network i am mike kak hope everyone had a great weekend if you were in the united states you had a great long weekend i know it's one of those memorial days not one you typically celebrate because of what it means but certainly you honor those who have given the ultimate sacrifice while you spend time with family and yeah, I hope you guys all enjoyed that and

ready to ramp it back up because we got a rare UFC this weekend and then it's going to be off to the races for the foreseeable future. We got this Saturday, they're back. UFC Vegas 56, I think this one is. Maybe it's

57, I don't know. I think it's 56. That's Jarziniioreauzenegov in the main event. And then June 11th, You have the big UFC 275 events, June 18th, more fans in Austin, Texas. UFC Austin. And then June 25th is back at the apex, which is going to be weird after having two events with crowds. And then we go to the UFC apex and we have a main event like Armand Sarukion versus Batush Gamrott in a near empty apex.

It just doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem fair. And then right after that, we have UFC 275. July 2nd in Las Vegas, International Fight Week. So we are off and running. There will be a Bellator event mixed in between on June 24th. That's the card headlined by Gagar Busasi

versus Johnny Eblen. I know they're doing a virtual press conference for that event today. But yeah. So we're off and running. I hope you guys had a nice weekend off because we're not going to have very many of those over the next couple of months. So whatever you want to talk about today, We're just going to turn it out over.

We're just going to be loose as a goose today and just let you guys get after it. So first on the docket, my man, four corner sports. Hey, Mike, good morning, by the way. How are you, sir? Congratulations on yourself to making the finals. That's right.

That's right. Go seize. Here we go. And everyone's counting them on already, Four Corner Sports. Everyone's counting them out already. And I love it. I love it so much.

I don't know. I won't be surprised that they won't at all. But I wanted to talk about Mazdo and Connor. I know that they've been going back and forth. I know people have been wanting to see that's a matchup that Connor should probably fight. I know Mazdo has said in the past that he's too big for him. But is that the right matchup for Connor to come back to? Especially if he wants to stay at 170.

I mean, I don't know. And then also what's with Mazda's situation? like will he be able to fight again this year with his court in legal battles? And then I want to talk about Davidson Figredo. He, those are a report that he got upset about the interim title fight between Kai Kar-France and Brandon Moreno. It's going to be leaving the division. Like, what's the ceiling for him when he goes out to Bansomwe? And, you know, what challenges, you know, will, you know, arise for him if he moves up a division.

because, I mean, the last couple of times he tried making flyweight, it looked like he was sucking all the way out of him, and he didn't have, you know, he didn't look healthy making flyweight. So what challenges could he have at Bansomweight? And would that be an easier transition for him moving up to 135? All right, I'll hang up and be ready to listen. Thank you, four core sports. So I'm sure a lot of you saw sort of back-and-forth.

in different ways between Connor McGregor and Jorge Mosvedol and the question of it being the right fight probably is at this point. I mean, both guys are still stars, but I mean, well, I don't want to say neither are in the title picture because Connor is always in the title picture. Mazadol is not in the title picture at all at 170. And McGregor is in the title picture in two divisions right now. Whether you want to admit it or not, he is in the mix at 155, and he's probably in the mix at 170 for the title, even though he hasn't fought and even though he's lost his last couple and gotten finished in his last couple,

gotten finished in three out of his last four appearances. Yeah, I mean, he's still in the mix, despite all that, because he is the biggest star in the history of the sport, and he's still the biggest star in the sport currently. But I like that fight. I like McGregor Mazadol. It's two guys who are just going to stand in there and slug it out. There won't be takedowns.

No one's getting suffocated on the ground. And it's probably a 50-50 fight. Like I know Mazadol is the bigger fighter and the big concern from Dana White and the UFC brass is, you know, Conner's too small for Mazadol. But I think stylistically, I think with Connor's strength and his power, I mean, I think He matches up fine with Mazadol. Unless Mazadol wants to turn into a takedown orders himself. I mean, I don't know.

It's an interesting fight. It's an interesting matchup. It raises a lot of questions. It's one that I would have to go watch tape for to kind of make a pick. And you have two of the biggest stars of the sport. So makes sense. I like it. And you can use that for a main event for pretty much any card.

From Vegas to MSG to Mexico to Mexico to D. Dublin. That can headline in freaking Salt Lake City, Utah. You can put that fight anywhere in a main event spot, and people are going to watch it, and people are going to order it. And you may only have both of these guys as big-time made eventers and pay-per-view selling draws only for so long. Like, how long, I think McGregor's only got two fights left at his deal.

You don't have a lot left with him. And then, Azel just signed a new deal, but if he'd lose us to Connor, man, that's a tough one for him. He's still a Gerard. You can still use his name for other things. But, man, I think that's a good fight, though. I think that's probably the way to go. And I think we're all sort of feeling that after Coveington, in my opinion,

50, 40, for Jorge Mazadol. And then with the, the figgy stuff, yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, I don't know what Figurato expected to happen there. You know what I mean? This was, I told you guys on the show in Jackson, when I was in Jacksonville, that that was a possibility that we were going to, the UFC was discussing Brandon Moreno versus Kai Kar-Franes sometime in July, and they weren't going to do that just on an island.

They were going to do an interim title fight for that. Like, you have Moreno who was supposed to get another shot at the title that he just lost in a fight that a lot of people still think Moreno won. And then you have Kai Kar-France, who's just on this nice run, he just beat Asker-Asker-off and hitting him his first loss. There's no way they were just going to do this fight

as a three-round fight on a pay-per-view. It made no sense. So I don't know what Figuerreta expected here. Is he really that surprised that the UFC's going the interim title route with Figgie on the sidelines for most of the year? He's saying at this point, now they're saying like end of the year.

They're saying anywhere from October to the state, December at this point. So the UFC, when they have an opportunity to put on an interim title fight in a division that doesn't, it's always fun and always produces interesting matchups and exciting fights, but not doesn't typically draw a ton of money, doesn't headline pay-per-views. They're just not going to put an inter, like, I don't know what he expected. I don't know what the surprises. So if you miss this, Figurato is saying that he might perhaps go up to 135 and just say, to hell with it. They want to do an interim title. Just make it for the real belts.

And I'll just go up to 135. How does he match up at 135? Pretty interesting. He's still a very good fighter. He's a powerful guy. I like the adjustments he was able to make from the Moreno fights. There's my dog barking. But I like the adjustments he made.

And the weight cut, he looked pretty darn good on that scale. He looked shredded. I don't think he could have cut a single ounce more off of his body at that point. but obviously 1.35 will be easier for him. He'd be a pretty good size Bantamweight. The problem is if the move to 35 is for legacy and I want to win a second title and I want to do this and do that

with championships and become a Bandomay champion, it's going to be a long wait for him. I don't think it's going to be one of those things where they're just going to throw him into a title fight right away. I think it's going to be a little while before that happens because you got, you got Aldo, you got Dillish, maybe Henry Sehudo. I don't feel like going on down that road again.

And now you get Figgie in there. Although I would put Figgi ahead of Sehudo in the title conversation right now. Why? Because he's actually, you know, fighting people. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens there. Let's go to Tristan. What's up, buddy? Back of a morning, Mike.

How's everything? It is good, man. How are you? All right, all right. I want to talk about the Saturday's card. I want to know for you, what is the most, you know, what you're looking for as far as Pacific fighters on this car that's happening on Saturday.

I mean, it's really, really some interesting fighters I'm looking forward to. Obviously, you know, I'm looking forward. Obviously, Aaron Blanfield is Deja Alder. I'm going to be locked into that fight. And it starts the main, starts the prelands, which is stunning, especially how Aaron Blanfield has come out the gate. And then I want you, Jeff Molina is another one. You talked about him a lot, especially being, you know, being cornered with James Krause.

I want your thoughts on him because he's very, very interesting in that flyweight division. He is tough as nails. The guy could be losing, but then he'll come back and win. And then there's Joe Selecky's coming off his first loss in the UFC. I want your thoughts about him. And then Evalov, who I'm very disappointed. He's not fighting Ilya, which I wanted to see you the worst way. But he's going to fight Dan Igay.

So I want your thoughts on that. And then other than this card, what intriguing other fight night card are you looking at as well coming up in these months? I want to know your thoughts on that. So it be very interesting. All right, Mike, thanks. Thank you, interesting. So a lot to unpack there. I would say there's two fighters that I'm really looking at here.

One is one you mentioned already. Bob Zar, Vloyv taking on the Wiley Vets and Dan Igey. And I know he was booked to fight Iliate Tuporia, and I know we're all excited about him fighting Iliate Tuporia. But I think all in all, at the end of the day, I think things kind of worked out a little bit because Iliant Tuporia got to be on that London card. He got one of the best knockouts of the year. probably was the front runner for knockout of the year for about 15 minutes against Jai Herbert

before Meatball Molly McCann went down and spinning elbowed herself into that spot. This is before, obviously, Michael Chandler front kick Tony Ferguson right in the freaking face. But yeah, so great moment for him. It was at 155. He had that moment with Patty Pimbley, which went bananas. So that raised his stock a little bit just being in the same conversation. so he got a different kind of a vet test. Vloyav getting Dan Ege.

It's a really interesting fight. It's a really good opportunity for him. It's a co-main event. Dan is super tough. Dan's the kind of guy that everyone's going to count out in this spot. And you probably shouldn't, although I am favoring of Lov because he's super good. But Ege is no joke. He's not just a guy who's just going to roll over and let Vloyav just get over on him.

It's not going to happen that way. Now, Vloyv is a super talented guy. and he can certainly find his way to 16 and all. I'm predicting he does, but I think I is going to give him one hell of a fight. You mentioned Joe Selecki. I like Joe a lot. Great guy.

One of the nicest guys you'll ever speak to in the sport. Looking forward to this fight with Alexa Silva. The ground exchanges should be a lot of fun. Both these guys are just great grapplers, experienced grapplers. Very sneaky, very slick. So I am looking forward to that. Jeff Molina,

as I've been saying for about four years now, Jeff Molina, the sky is the limit on this kid. Jeff Molina, and he will say this himself. He has said this in interviews with me and many others. Jeff Belita's toughest opponent is Jeff Molina. Jeff Molina is Jeff Belina's toughest opponent. What I mean by that is, I actually think him fighting at the apex is actually better for him. I think the smaller crowd, I think him just being in this spot, the third fight on this card.

There'll be people in the apex. but there's not going to be 15,000 people in there. And I think Jeff just kind of feeds up that crowd energy, almost to his detriment, where it's, the crowd could sort of guide him into the fight they want to see, and he will just sort of get into that. You know what I mean?

Like his, one of his fights, let me go back. I have to look at it. I forget who he fought. This was in front of a crowd, and he was, winning comfortably. Arichi Lang. UFC 261.

UFC debut. He's got the crowd. This is the first event with a crowd since the pandemic. And he gets into this crazy exchange. He's winning and then almost gets knocked out with like 15 seconds left in the fight by Rishi Lang. And then he comes back at the apex, smaller crowd. Doesn't have to deal with all that noise and things like that. And he goes out, has a tremendous performance, gets a finish.

And voila, we start to see. just how talented this kid is. Now Zalgam Gulov is a tough out in his own right. I like this test. I think it's actually a perfect step up for him. And I like that it's got to be in the apex so he can't really fall into the crowd effect. You mentioned Aaron Blanchfield, JJ Aldrich. I know that, Tristan, that is the fight. You'll be watching.

That's the one you're looking at. It's a great fight. This is a good step up for Aaron Blanchfield. She's really, I mean, JJ's a grinder, man. She is a vet. She fights like a vet. She's not going to roll over for Aaron Blanchfield in any way. So I like the matchup.

I favor Aaron to get the win. But this is a good fight. This is exactly what you want to see in terms of the build. Because we're talking about Manny Fioro. She's getting ready to fight Caitlin Chukagian. I mean, we're seeing this next generation of 25ers on the way up, Viviani Arrugio. We're seeing, you know, Alexa Grasso find her way. We're seeing Macy Barber getting ready for a big fight with Jessica I.

and the one that a lot of people seem to have circled as the next big thing, the one that eventually with time and some more seasoning could give Valentina a run for her money, everyone seems to be looking at Aaron Blanchfield in this discussion. And I don't really blame you. But this is, if we're going to build one of these up-and-comers a little bit slower, I like that it's Aaron Blanchfield getting built a little bit slower. You want to push some of these other talented women up the ladder quickly? go right ahead.

But I don't think you should do that with every single one of them. I think we should slow roll some of these prospects, Aaron Blanchfield, especially. But the fight I'm looking forward to that I'm intrigued about maybe the most is one of

the newest fights on this card because Felice Herring is coming back to the UFC for the first time in almost two years and she's fighting Carolina Kovalevich. They're rematching. And this fight literally came out of nowhere.

I think it was announced on Friday, but it came out of nowhere. And if you follow Felice Herring on social media, she's been teasing a comeback for a little while. And here we are. Just literally out of the thin blue sky, Feliz Herring, Carolee Nicole Vukavich 2 is coming up this Saturday on a fight night card. It is Herig's first fight since August of 2020 when she was armed by Verna Janjarova at UFC 252

in like a minute 45. Before that, she lost the Michelle Waterson, unanimous decision. Before that, she lost Carlyne Echolva-Kavich, split decision. UFC 223, the craziest fight week of all time. That was the Habib, Al-Aquinta, craziness with the dolly and all that stuff. But three fights since 2018, Felice Harrog, Caroline Nicole Vukavich, this fight's happening, and nobody even freaking knew about it until Friday. So how about that?

That's the one I'm looking at. because it just, I was like, what? The hell is happening here? It's not a bad fight night card. I mean, the main event is, it's okay. It's just, this is what the UFC does. They say, oh, we have two heavyweights that are ranked.

Let's just throw them in a main event. And it's like, on paper stylistically, it's like the seventh best fight and most intriguing fight on this entire card. Don't try to disrespect either fighter, but that's just what it is. and then looking at the rest of the fight nights late, I mean, how could you not be excited for?

Actually, I think they're all pretty solid after this. UFC 275, you get two title fights. The Austin card's really solid with Calvin Cater and Josh Emmett is the main event. I love that fight. In my opinion, that should be the number one contender fight. The winner of that fight should fight for the belts against the winner of Volcanowski versus Holloway. Unless, of course, Holloway wins. then if you want to do, as New York Rick can attest to, if Holloway wins,

and we want to do Volcanovsky Holloway 4, let's do it. Two best guys. Let's get after it. We can do a best of seven for all I care, and I will watch each and every one of those fights. But Kater Emmett is a great fight. Sirukion Gamrod is the main event. It's a tremendous fight. And then we go to UFC 276, which is a really good card.

RDA. We got Raphael versus Hafeel coming up July 9th. on a fight night main event. Then we got Brian Ortega, Yahia Rodriguez, July 16th, in a crowd in Long Island, or on Long Island, excuse me.

And then we're off to London again for that July 23rd card. That's pay-per-view, another pay-per-view in Dallas. So listen, we're, I'm trying to, we have a card every week from now until

I'm still looking. So after, you have a card, 2.78 right now is scheduled for August 20th, although we don't have a location yet. I know it's rumored, maybe Salt Lake City, but nothing is done on that front yet. So we have a car, we have a UFC event every single Saturday from now until after, until UFC 278, from now until August 20th, almost three straight months of Saturdays we have UFC cards. And they get a week off and then they go to

Paris and then we're off and running again. So if you guys, uh, We're like, oh, man, week off stinks, blah, blah, blah. You're okay because now we're not getting a weekend off for a long, long time. You're good to go. And it's all in all these cards, all these main events outside of maybe this Saturday are really strong. So if you're an M. May fan, you get a lot to be excited about. So if you want to hop on in, give your thoughts. I mean, listen, normally we'd be recapping a UFC events of some kinds.

And we didn't really have one this weekend. We got to watch Pugodowski. We got to watch Pooge go out there and just be, uh, be vicious. Anyone see that KO? KSW KO is nuts. That KSW event was brutal. There's a lot of like freak injuries that just made you cringe. And then Pugge's knock out was redong.

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Just make sure you unmute. No, no, just a fan. Just a fan. I figured, what's up, man? How are you doing, Mike? Good morning. I'm doing good, man. I'm doing good. So how do we feel about Holloway-Vokin-Arcy, especially if Holloway wins? Because I know a lot of people had Holloway winning at the second fight, like myself, even though the judges do what they do and just mess up, you know, in events from time to time. How do we feel if Holloway wins and they put a fourth fight on the table because it would be like,

what we just saying, Holloway can to win twice in a row. Oh, all right. Interesting. So I will address a couple things there. One, I'm all in on those guys just fighting forever. You want to keep throwing those two guys in there and just fight all the time. I'm in. I would watch Volcanowski Holloway fight every weekend if we could do that because, and I've said this on the show.

many times. Go back and just rewatch that second fight. If you are looking for the most underrated fight maybe in UFC history, that is the one. That is just five rounds of high level

physical and mental chess. It was phenomenal. Just watching how much Holloway changed his style, how much he improved from fight one to fight two, the success he was having over those first 10 minutes and then watching Volkanowski make his adjustments

in the middle of that fight heading into the third round rounds three, four and five, all the adjustments he made, how much he improved in the middle of the fight. It was incredible. It was incredible. And it was probably, you know, people talk about robbery and close fights and all that stuff. That might be the closest fight you will ever watch. that might be the absolute closest fight you will ever watch in your life.

Now, I've scored that fight the exact same every single time that I've watched it. From watching it live to the probably 35 other times that I've watched it since. I scored it for Volkovsky every single time. Live I scored it for Volkanovsky

and I've gone back and watched it over 30 other times just to see if I'm missing something because there are two, There were two times in my career where I got destroyed on Twitter. Most people are pretty respectful on Twitter. This is the occasional POS, but for the most part, people are very nice. But there were two times where people just really crushed me.

One was a couple weeks ago with the Vieira Holly Holm situation. I didn't think it was a robbery. Got destroyed for that. And then the other one was saying that Volcanofsky Holloway 2 was not a robbery. It got absolutely annihilated for that. And why? It was such a close fight. But every single time I've watched it, I've scored it for Volkadovsky.

I gave Holloway rounds one and two and Volkinovsky 3, 4, 5. But they were super close. And I've gone back so many times and watch to see, like, what am I missing? Am I missing anything here? Is there something that Holloway did that maybe outshined Volkanowski in one of the last three rounds? And I just didn't see it. And it's not saying that Holloway didn't fight a phenomenal fight because he did, but just Volcanowski was just a nose better.

Just a hair better in those final 15 minutes. It's such a good fight. And I hate that we talk about this fight in such a negative light because of how the judges scored it. But if you just want to go watch a fight for the purity of fighting, just go watch that fight. It's so good. Watch it on mute.

And I'm not saying that as a knock on the commentators. Just go watch it and just enjoy it for what it is. And then don't listen to Bruce Buffer reading up the scorecards. and you will find yourself just enthralled by high-level martial arts. That fight friggin' rules. And if you haven't seen it, go back and watch it. If you haven't watched it in a long time, go back and watch it again. Don't worry about the judge's scorecards.

Don't worry about the scoring. Don't worry about who wins. And don't worry if you thought it was a robbery or not. Just go watch it for how good the fight actually is because it's an all-timer. And it doesn't get the love that it deserves, in my opinion. Let's go to Joe. actually you had another question jimmy i'll address that in a minute but joe what's up buddy just make sure you out on mute what's happening mike heck of a morning um indeed i will comment quickly and say

that if dc was given the john jones fight 13 times he eventually would have beat john jones too because they like dc it's clear they like max and they're just going to keep feeding him um yeah i i think it's the dumbest fight made in a decade it doesn't even make sense. Why? What do you think that? Lost the rivalry before it started. I mean, D.C. was at least, at least smart enough, had the foresight to say there's no rivalry

when you lose two in a row. He lost two in a row, man. It's over. Give it up. But most people, most people feel he won the second fight, and then he put on one of the all-time great performances against Calvin Cater. He's the next guy right. He just is.

He lost the fight. He lost the fight. I'll move on. I want to ask you about the main event this week. So I bet I'm a gambler and I've been looking at this fight and I don't see any way this fight ends other than Volkov holding them at distance with the jab for five rounds until it's over. If you see any way for Jarzino to get there and get the job done, I'd be excited to hear

how you think it could happen other than the puncher's chance. Thank you, Joe. I appreciate that. Yeah. And just to kind of build on Jimmy's question as well, if Holloway wins, they're just going to do it again. They're just going to run it back of Volkovsky again. And who's going to complain?

Because it's just the first fight was, I mean, the first fight was just a technical chess match. The second fight was just so frigging good. It was just amazing. And I'm very curious to see what this third fight looks like. very curious. Things got a little weird, too, after Holloway had to pull out of that March card, which is supposed to be the, I believe it was the one Covington and Mazdal had lined

because they were going to do Volkadovsky Holloway 3 on that card, and they were going to do Sterling Yan 2 on that card, and they ended up moving both those fights to the following month in Jacksonville, UFC 273, and obviously Korean zombie stuff did and all that stuff. So that went down. And Holloway was, I mean, not hallway. Volkadoffsky was not happy because there were talks. And I know there were very preliminary.

The UFC was trying to throw that, as Halati called it a Hail Mary for that Columbus card. There were discussions. There were early talks about maybe, maybe doing Holloway versus Josh Emmett to headline that Columbus card. I know that there were talks going on. I mean, wasn't really close to. to getting done, but they were trying to do something big because for a while, there was no main event for that Columbus card before we got, eventually ended up getting the Curtis Blades Christakis fight to headline, but I mean, and so Volgaovsky is really

pissed that that got leaked and found out that Holloway who basically had to pull out of that early March fight might have been ready for a few weeks down the line and he wasn't happy. He said some things that he probably regret saying now and said as much, during the build to UFC 273. So it'll be interesting to see how Holloway approaches it, how Volkadovsky approaches this heading into July 2nd, what will be said, will the media days be like,

will the interviews be like, how will both guys sort of approach it on that end? I'm curious to see. Your other question with this Volkov Rosenstrike fight, this is hashtag heavyweight MMA. And while I agree with you, I like that, I mean, I actually think there's a lot of values.

here on Volkov at minus 155 because I think most people sort of look at it as if Volkov could just keep his distance and maybe land some takedowns and just keep roses strike guessing he should cruise here but Jarzino is just Garzio's got that power he just needs one thing he just needs one of these shots to land plus 135 I don't know from a gambling perspective is there a lot of value there it doesn't really seem that way I see all the value on Volkov here at minus 155 but maybe you take a gander at the fight doesn't go the distance line? I don't know.

I think this fight probably doesn't go the full 25. It might. But I think even Volkov gets cooking, he could probably get them out of there. Third, fourth round, maybe let a big body shot or something. Well, we'll see. We've seen stranger things happen in this sport. Let's get Jimmy back in here. Maybe a follow-up.

Hey, so I just address two. things. Joe got on here and he talked about DC versus John and he compared it to Max versus Volt. But the one difference we had in both DC and John fights, we had a definitive winner.

Especially number two when we seen the head kick knockout or TKO. And then how do you feel about strikes versus damage? You said you had got dragged for Holly and Ketland. And that's one of those fights where it was striking on

one side, but the damage was on the other. So how do we score that from here on now? Like, what, what do you score for the fighter that was more active and more successful or the fighter that maybe wasn't as active and not as much successful, but when they were successful, we've seen the damage play out? See, that's a, that's a great question. And let me, let me just thank you for not mentioning the OS open scoring thing, because I am so freaking tired of talking about open scoring. Just give it a rest. I'm happy to indulge in those conversations again down the road. But last week was just open scoring to death. And I'm done. I just don't want to talk about it right now. Now, when it comes to scoring fights, I know the great Sean Sheehan was was in here

for a moment. But it's here's the thing. I didn't blame. Dominic Cruz talks about scoring and stuff during the fights that he's calling. And he said, and he said things like, Oh, he got a take down. He stole the round. And most people just go out there and blast the fighters on commentary for saying these things. I'm not really like that. I look at it as there are certain times where if it happens like a thousand times in a row, you're like, okay, come on now. Like you should have known by now.

But Cruz isn't on the desk or in the broadcast booth all the time. And Cruz is like an OG of the sport. And he's been fighting and dealing with things and going down roads of here's how fights were always scored what I fought. Here's what scored. Here's how I won fights from time to time. And there are certain times where it's like riding a bike. If you do something so many times and it's been that way for so many years for over a decade or more, then, uh-oh. We have the electrician here, so if things go haywire.

Don't worry about it. I'm okay. But if you're so used to something and then things just change like that and you're not ready for them, from time to time, it's going to be a process where you have to get with it.

Now, if you're looking for how to score fights in this day and age, in modern mixed martial arts, there's two fights that you should probably go watch that will give you a prime example of how this all works, okay? And I know with the Hulm Vieira fight is a little different because there's a lot of clinching,

a lot of different exchanges where there weren't a lot of strikes thrown. There was just a lot of clenching and controlling and things like that. But there's two fights that, and they both involve one fighter. And then there's two different opponents. But it'll tell you everything you need to know. One, Rob Font versus Jose Aldo. Two, Rob Font versus Marlon Vera. Those are two perfect examples.

of how scoring works in modern mixed martial arts. Because if you go and just look at the numbers, if you go, I'm going to pull them up right now, and I know I've done this little thing before, but I'm going to pull them up anyways, because if you didn't watch either of these fights, you would think that Rob Font won both of these fights, just based on the numbers themselves.

So here's Rob Font, Jose Aldo. round one rob font outlands jos a alto 36 to 26 round two rob font outlands jos aaldo 48 to 23 round three rob font outlands jos a although 37 to 12 round four it's an even 10 10 that was the takedown round round round five rob font outlands josie aldo 18 to 50 and these are significant strikes for a total of 149 to 86 in favor of Rob Font, total strikes. Rob Font landed almost 100 more strikes than Josealdo landed. But Josealdo won the fight. 5045, 5045, 4946, despite getting outstruck in four of the five rounds,

a couple of the rounds by almost triple. But Joseoaldo did the damage. He did the damage. He got the knockdowns. Rob Font was cruising in that first round against Jose Alto. Cruising. And then Aldo drops him with seconds to go. That's how you steal rounds.

You don't steal rounds of takedowns anymore. You steal rounds of damage. You steal rounds of knockdowns. Aldo got two big knockdowns, did all the damage, had Fon in trouble, despite Fon outlanding him pretty much the whole fight. Rob fought Marlon Vera. This is more. Okay, listen to this. Round one.

Rob Font Outlands Marlon Verra, 57 to 26. Round 2. 51, 27. Round 3. Rob Font Outlands of 71 to 37. Round 4. Font Outlands of 42.

36. Round 5. 50 to 33. Font Outlands Vera. Pretty much every round by a lot. But, Farrar's shots meant more. Three knockdowns.

Almost the end of every round. We thought fought was coming back. Boom. Big knockdown by Maronvara, stole rounds. The damage does everything. Damage is always top notch. You can sit there and land a million shots, but if you get cracked and you get dropped, you lose the round. That's just how it works. So those are two prime examples about how scoring is done.

You could have numbers, you could have success, and you can land shots. But if you get dropped, if you get knocked down, If you deal with a lot of damage, despite being hit more than you are hitting your opponent, the guy with the damage wins the round. And it's something we'll learn. It's something we're all going to learn. So the more you listen to the Sean Shee ends, Aaron Brownson-Send's dropped it. Aaron's had a great job kind of explaining it.

He's been jumping into the scoring and the judging and all that stuff. Go watch those videos and just read them. Just read the scoring criteria. Just read what it is now. And you'll get it. Eventually, we're going to get on the same page. Open scoring isn't going to change any of this. It's not going to change any of this.

They're not hand in hand. These aren't apples and oranges. These are, I mean, that's more. Actually, it is apples and oranges. These aren't two of the same things. One doesn't affect the other. You know what I mean? We're trying to eat healthy.

That's why I'm making fruit references. You may have heard of the sex cult nexium and the famous actress who went to prison for her involvement, Alison Mack. But she's never told her side of the story until now. People assume that I'm like, this pervert. My name is Natalie Robamed. And in my new podcast, I talked to Allison to try to understand how she went from TV actor to cult member. How do you feel about having been involved in bringing sexual trauma to other people?

I don't even know how to answer that question. Allison after Nexium from CBC's Uncover is available now on Spotify. All right, probably go for like 10 more minutes. parents what's up buddy hello yes sir hey i'll make it quick because i'm in traffic but in regards to not even open scoring but in regards to like the way we judge fights i just want to know which fight that you think that we went back and scored it in the way that we court stuff now in regards to damage and things that nature um which one do you think we would give to the loser For example, I went back and watched Sean Braves versus Michael P.S.

The last night, and in the first round, they were going off damage. Michael did more damage when he broke Sean's nose. And then in the third, he clearly hadn't wobble. I say his second was Sean. Another one was when – oh, I didn't watch this one again, but I watched D.C. He was like – and Mosswood all versus the Luzman won. Couldn't we have given that to Mosswood off because it was the same thing when it's the kind of Logan story as MVP where he was like controlled him against the cage. For the most part, he got 5045.

So what fights do you think if we went back and rewatched when we were born based off the damage purely first, you would go back and change your thoughts on who won that fight? Thank you. Thanks, buddy. I mean, I think this one obvious one that probably, I mean, it's clearly today Johnny Hendrix would have beat GSP, right? I mean, that's the easiest, that's right there. Today's MMA, Johnny Hendricks wins that fight. There's no controversy.

There's no middle-way title fight. I mean, maybe there is. I don't know. But in today's Mnoy, Johnny Hendricks clearly wins that fight. I haven't gone back and looked at different decisions. I mean, I don't agree with the Mazadol-Uzman one. I think maybe Mazadol should have got the first round. You can make an argument there,

but it was all Oostin pretty much the rest of the way. In my opinion, I thought they were clear rounds for Camaro, despite the whole damage conversation. But things that, damage is damage, like knockdowns, like wobbly legs, like that's damage. Just landing a heart shot and things like that,

despite losing the rest of the round, doesn't necessarily do it, but it's just those impactful moments. You know what I mean? You know, an interesting one, I was talking to Houston Alexander. Good old 51 year old

Houston Alexander is over in BKFC just knocking fools out. I see you Lars Sanko, you can come back in here. That was one of the things he said. He went back and looked at the he went back and watched his fight with the late great Kimbo Slice. And he

even said when I spoke with him that in today's MMA, he wins. He beats Kimbo Slice. Because Kimball got a lot of takedowns in that fight, and that was the difference maker. But Houston definitely landed more out of the damage of that fight. I haven't gone back and watched it. I mean, I haven't probably watched that fight in probably seven or eight years.

But from what I recall, he's not wrong. He's not wrong. So that's an example, too. But I have to go back. But Hendricks GSP is the one that certainly sticks out in my mind. What's up, Toke? Morning to you. I just wondered about, can we talk about a guy returning from the day?

you know, Benoit Saint Denis making his comeback after almost getting killed by a bad ref in Abu Dhabi. I don't know what to expect from him at all because all I remember is that fight.

I don't remember what he did before. You know, before he came to the UFC, I just remember him getting completely sliced up by Celestchi Dos Santos with a ref that obviously had a fight go to the distance ticket. So I don't know if you can kind of talk about Benoit Saint-Dini a little bit. Yes, I think you all sort of remember what happened with that fight.

There's a lot of controversy there because the ref didn't stop that fight. Ben-Wasentini was making his UFC debut on relatively short notice. I believe that was one of the – that was that October card at Abu Dhabi, who was actually really good. Eliza Zaleski Dosatos was just piecing him up. He was beating him up bad. there were certain times in that second, I think it was the second route,

where Zelski just, I mean, just put a beating on him for, for quite some time. And it seemed like the referee should have stopped. What's that referee's name? Vyushlov, Kisolev,

was the referee. And, yeah, sent that he was just getting humbled over and over and over again. It was looking real bad. He didn't stop the fight, and their rep just got absolutely destroyed for it. But I've talked to,

to, I've talked to like Santadis coaches after that. I talked to his manager, talked to like one or two of his coaches after, and they were okay with it. They're like, that fight shouldn't have been stopped. And I don't understand. Like, oh, because not only that,

his coaches got a lot of crap because they sent him out in the third round to fight Zelisky after taking that beating in the second. And they got absolutely hammered on the broadcast too. They got hammered on the broadcast. They got hammered by the media. They got hammered by, fans on social media, and they defended themselves.

They said, listen, I talked to our guy. He was good. He was fine. So we sent them back out to go fight. And he actually had a decent third round. Like, if I recall, he didn't get blown out of the water like the second round. And he had some moments where he landed some decent shots. And we're like, oh, okay, this guy looks good.

But at the end of the day, you have to sort of err on the side of caution. You don't want to see fighters take beatings like that. And his coaches seem fine with it. and his team seemed fine with it, but at the end of the day, that was the call that was made. So that was the first loss of Santadis' career. I think his stock actually kind of rose in that fight,

despite just because of the toughness. But looking at that fight, we kind of, it's hard to really fight it. Like the Calvin Cater Max Holloway example, where, you know, Tyson Chardier, who I have so much respect for,

and Cater's team, and even Herb Dean took a, took a vicious beating on social media for not stopping that fight. But Tyson, I spoke with Tyson a couple weeks after that fight, and he was like, listen, I know my fight are better than anybody.

I talked to Calvin in the corner, and Calvin said, I'm good. Didn't have any signs, anything that scared me, that threw me for a loop. Calvin said he wanted to keep going. And then he said,

even in the fifth rounds, Calvin was bouncing up and down before that fifth round. And it was even crazier about that was, when they went back to Vegas and they actually looked at Calvin's brain, like the numbers that you could go to the PI, you could look at

potential damage to the head and post-fight numbers when it comes to the brain and things like that. Tyson was telling me that Calvin's numbers after that fight were lower than any of his other fights in the UFC, despite taking

all that damage, which is insane. which is nuts to think about when you took a record amount of damage in that fight. But Calvin is just, Calvin Cater is just so ridiculously tough. And to see what Calvin came, and to see Calvin bounce back and have that performance against Skegan Chikaze,

after all that is so impressive. God, I can't wait for June 18th. That fight with Josh Emmett, freaking rules. Let's go to James McDonald. of a morning to you. What's up, buddy? Hey, firstly, congratulations to your Boston Celtics.

Yeah, let's go. All right. And secondly, I have a hypothetical for you. All right. Let's say Charles Olivera defeats Islam Makachev in a title bout. Do you think that could be enough to entice Habib to come back and take on Charlie? olive. Now this is a very popular topic, James, and I thank you for the question. It's a very popular topic. How do I answer this? I don't think it hurts. It doesn't hurt. It certainly would raise the

percentage points slightly. I truly, I just don't see Hubby coming back. I don't see it happening. there was a time maybe at last year when I felt maybe maybe we could work something out maybe we can get like a Eagle FC you can get a favor from the UFC

and then help Eeb can come back and do the UFC a favor and return I thought maybe there's a chance but the more time that goes on the less chance I think this happens if that makes sense I just I don't know

if he beats Mokachev like if he goes out of there just beats Mokachev and then maybe does the DX crotch shop to like Habib or something. Maybe that gets him going a little bit and then if Oliver goes out and maybe beats Darius, I think

what he's going to have to do is because Habib talked about the comparisons, right? He was, did the interview with the SBN and he basically said, you can't really compare us right now because I have, I wasn't really,

haven't been really touched in my fights. I've only lost a couple of rounds. Oliver has lost a whole bunch of times. He's getting dropped in all of his fights. Until he beats Izal Makachap and Bidel Daryush and a couple of other guys, it is unfair to even compare us and put us in the same sentence, which I don't actually agree with. I don't Terrence McKinney didn't agree with that,

and that thing got a whole bunch of play on social media this past week after Terence was on BTL. But I think if the only chance we get Habe back, is if Olivera goes out and finishes Islam, you know, does something, and Oliver's not a disrespectful guy, but maybe he talks a little trash, beats Dario, she gets a couple of wins, maybe. But I would say, don't count it. Don't hold your breath for a Habib return.

If it happens, I'll be shocked. I'll be shocked if it happens, which is crazy because I feel like we were in the middle of Habib's prime when he retired. Which is, I mean, he was. really good no matter what. All of his stages of his UFC run and his M.A. run, he was really good. But the guy who retired after the Justin Gachie fight, he was only going to get,

he may, he may not even hit his ceiling yet, which is really scary. But hubby was really good. And he was starting to insert his dominance a little bit more. He had a little more swagger to him. And you still see it now. You see training videos. You probably saw the one with him training with Luke Rockhold. and the guy's still a beast

taking Luke Rockhold down at Will who is two-way classes above him three if we're talking about Rockhold's last fight and he just holds him down just holds him down does whatever he wants so we'll see I doubt it but I understand why people think that all right let's get Emilio in here

with the final word Emilio just make sure you unmute and we're good Hello, Mike. Can you hear me? What's up, man? How are you? I'm doing great. I wish you a heck of a morning.

Yeah, just want to say, I have a question, but first, I wanted to say that thank you and the entire MMA fighting peeps for doing what you do. I think you're doing an amazing job. You're by far one of my favorite podcasts or networks or. whatever you want to call it, the whole package. And yeah, just keep it up. As for my question, it's a little bit off topic, but it is still related to MMA, and that is, I think I remember the last couple of cards,

John Anick at one point started. You know how he goes like, What does he say again? About the ring girls. Like, oh, yeah, the beautiful whatever joining us. I don't know, something like that. And then this time, I think a couple of cards ago, he said, the goat, Ariani, welcoming us for round one or whatever.

So my question was regarding the topic of ring girls. Do you ever think that that job per se will, will change or in the sense that maybe maybe then give them maybe the UFC gives them something else to do so that they're not just you know doing the same thing over and over again which is just running around the octagon round one round two and then smiling for the camera and second of all

which one do you think or which ring girl not only from the UFC is the goat of ringgoes yeah that's my question like I said keep it up your guys are awesome and see you around thank you Emilio yeah I got to say I wasn't really prepared for that kind of a question

I mean Ariani Celeste is probably the goat if her being honest she's one of the OGs and been doing it for a long time and I think they add I mean, they certainly add something to the broadcast. And John Anick does a great job of spotlighting them. And I mean, John Anick does a great job of spotlighting everybody. That's why I feel that John is the, he's the best.

I think he's not only the best in MMA. I think he's one of the best lead play-by-play guys in all of sports. I honestly, I think he is. I think he's one of the best in all of sports right now. I think you could throw John Anick into any, sports play-by-play role and he would crush it. If for some reason, if some reason

there's like a COVID outbreak or something, and we're not, I'm not saying that this should happen. I'm not rooting for this, but you know what I'm going at this. Let's say something happens and ESPN needs somebody to call Game One of the NBA Finals. And they called John Anick to do it. He would absolutely crush it.

Let's just say NFL season kicks off. NBC needs a guy. something happens Al Michaels can't do it or whoever's going to be doing it they'll call John I bet John would go in there and just crush it

would just crush it he's that good and he knows how to spotlight at the right times spotlight the fighters spotlight the ring card girls spotlight the sponsors the upcoming movie that's coming out

like he's just a pro he does a great job and all the ring card girls do a great job and everybody does a great job on this broadcast they do they all do a great job

I think that's it. I didn't think we were going to get 57 minutes out of this today, but gosh, darn it, we did. We got 57 minutes out of the first heck of a morning of the week without a UFC card on the Saturday prior. But like I said, everybody, if you were thinking to yourself, man, that week off came at the wrong time. Don't worry about it.

Next couple months of your lives, you will have UFC events. like I said, June 4th, this Saturday, all the way until August 20th. We have cards every Saturday. Every Saturday for the next almost three months. So don't worry about it. And then after that, it's just a week off, and then the UFC heads to Paris, France. So you're good. You'll be good to go.

And if you didn't watch KSW, go back and watch that because that was a fun-ass card. Some nasty injuries. And it ended with Pooge just going out there and going ham, land in one of the most ferocious knockouts of the year. But if you're an MMA fan and the UFC's on on and you're still looking for it, go follow the composes of the world. They will lead you in the right direction. But we are out of here, everybody.

Thank you for all the great questions. Thank you for all the great debate about close fights and scoring and robberies and all that other fun stuff. But we'll be back again on Thursday. Another busy day for us. We'll have this show. We'll have a live edition of Between the Links, talking about the big news, big stories going on this week

in the wonderful world of mixed martial arts. And then we are off to the races for the next couple of months with cards and lots to talk about. So thank you all very much. Have a great rest of the day. Get your coffee ready and have yourselves a heck of a morning.

We'll see you on Thursday. A podcast network. Okay. Only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first? There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.