MMA Fighting - HOAM | Francis Ngannou's MMA Future, Jon Jones vs. Tom Aspinall, and More

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

Francis Ngannou left the UFC and has made it work better than anybody in recent memory, and with another massive boxing match ahead of him against Anthony Joshua in March, many want to know if Ngannou will still have any interest in returning to MMA competition. If you're the PFL, are you worried Ngannou may not have that interest? On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck discusses Ngannou's MMA future following his appearance on The MMA Hour, and why things could get real interesting if he beats Joshua. Additionally, listener topics include the Dustin Poirier vs. Benoit Saint-Denis and Charles Oliveira vs. Arman Tsarukyan fight announcements, Sean O'Malley's star power, what could be next for Justin Gaethje, Jon Jones and Tom Aspinall's back-and-forth on social media, and much more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster, The Downloaded.

It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible.

All right, everybody, it is Tuesday, January 9th, 2024, and it is indeed a heck of a morning. We are live on the NBA fighting Twitter space. You hear the show in its entirety shortly thereafter on the M.A. Fighting Podcasting Network. What's going on, everybody? I am Mike Keck. Thank you for being here. Thank you for joining us. And a lot going on since we last spoke. First off, shout out to everyone who joined on the YouTube show we did on Friday. First time we

did the show on YouTube. Wanted to try it out. Just kind of a random Friday thing. Wanted to see how it would go. And it went pretty damn well. So thank you all for. for that and it looks like that might be something we're going to do a little bit more moving forward so stay tuned for more details on that but since we last spoke since that show on friday we found out a couple of hours after we wrapped that francis and ganu his next fight his next opponent is set for march it looks like it's march 8th at this point from what i've been told but we're going to find out for sure, I believe on Monday when they had the press conference, Francis and Ghanu is boxing Anthony Joshua, which is friggin insane.

Which is friggin insane. It's unbelievable how Francis and Ghanu has taken the cliche term now, at least in this space, the fumbling of the bag, and turn it into a positive. Like fumbling the bag is now a good thing because of Francis and Gano. It's incredible. And as I stated on social media numerous times, may us all strive to fumble the bag like Francis and Ghana, who is about to make another floppy trillion dollars to box Anthony Joshua. So that's going to be a crazy-ass weekend because we have that fight on Friday. And then we have UFC 299 on Saturday.

It's going to be wild. As far as the UFC goes, we have been wondering, we have been waiting Wednesday and again and out some fights. it appears like he's going to announce more today. At least that's what he's been promising while he was doing his live Instagram things on vacation. But he couldn't wait to announce two fights. On Sunday night,

Dana announces the co-main event for UFC 299, which is shaping up to be an incredible frigging card. The co-main event is a five-rounder between Dustin Poree and Benoit Santini, which is insane. That is a crazy fight And I got to be honest, not one I expected to see But the more we talked about Dustin Porier

And the more we looked at potential options for him The more this makes a little more sense Because I think some of the fights he was hoping to get Just weren't possible Like the Nate fight was never a thing And I assume we're going to talk about that in a moment At some point throughout this program And some of the other options

that could have been in play, not really possible. And then we found out a little bit more why when Dana announced that Charles Olivaa is not fighting Islam Makachev. He's fighting Armin Sarukian at UFC 300, which, by the way, I love that fight. I love that fight so much. That is incredible matchmaking. And as we said on our reaction podcast yesterday,

shout out to the UFC and the matchmakers. They're doing the thing. They are doing the thing, and they're doing it right. Now, what does this mean for Islam Makachaf? I don't really know. Dana did say he was a little dinged up. I don't know if you want to wait. I don't know if you want to wait till October to have Islam fight,

but you're playing with fire if you don't. So I don't really know what's going to happen there. And then the other thing is what happens with Justin Gaiji? Does he wait for Islam? because Dana said that the winner of Oliver Serukin's getting the title shot. So what does this mean for Justin Gagee? Does this mean he's going to defend the BMF title? Maybe they do him and Max Holloway.

That would be fun as hell. But I wonder what this all means on that end. So a lot to kind of digest, a lot to think about. But I want to turn it all over to all of you guys because we have a lot to talk about real quick. We're starting a little early because I have an incredibly. busy day. I have like a million interviews today. And they start at 11 a.m. Eastern. So I have to get this like wrapped and packed and produced on the pod network before that. And then it's just like a whole day full of interviews, which I think you guys will like. So let's get into this thing. Let's hear

from all of you. And let us begin with Moneyline Mike. It's not Moneyline, Mike. You just have to unmute yourself. you got me yeah what's that man my bad about that uh first off happy new yate i know it's a little late on that but happy new year to you and everybody in the space um the i had one question one two questions and that kind of a statement why is everybody ragging on dustin for taking the bsd fight when they were complaining about him sitting and then finally he takes a tough opponent and everybody's like this is the dumbest decision you can have made the guy finally did what he had to do he's coming up against a tough fight. It's like a, like, they were, what was it? Um, a sports illustrator.

Somebody put like a number one contender fight for BMF. They're two BMFers, but I'm excited for that. And then my number two, my questions are, are we going to get more of these five round co-main events? Because we were supposed to have Dan Hooker, Bobby Green, Amir, Brandon Moreno is a five-rounder. and now Dustin and BSD is a five-rounder. You think that's going to be more common in this year and kind of like showcase these number one contender fights, even though Armin and Charles isn't a five-rounder, but I kind of feel like those fights all feel like number one-ish contender fight.

So I would love to see that more often. And then two, now that Nate Diaz and Jorge are confirming this boxing match, I thought that was Jorge's unretired. tweet i thought that was meaning that he was going to fight just in for the bmf title in uh 300 but now that kind of looks like it's off like off the board so are we getting justin and max for the bmf at 300 so that's all i got to say appreciate you for everything you do thank you thanks man a lot to impact there so we'll start with the dustin poria thing i didn't i mean i didn't see anybody ragging on poorie i think this is i mean this is probably as good

as it can get right now. I mean, could he have fought like a Jim Miller or Paul Felder? Sure. I think people have been like, yeah, that's kind of cool. But there's a lot of people feel like Dustin could win this fight. Like, I feel like Dustin can win this fight. BSD is really good, but he hasn't fought anybody like Dustin Poria yet, like not even close.

So, it's a super good fight. It's probably the craziest fight on paper right now, and that includes DDP. P. versus Strickland, this fight's going to be incredible. Like, it's going to be wild. So I didn't really see anybody giving Dustin shit. And if you're giving Dustin shit, then it's probably the wrong thing you should be doing. Because this is a ballsy fight.

He has a lot to lose here, honestly. Like, and I think there is more of a reward to this than people give it credit for. Dustin is a big name. and we've seen what happens when some of these fighters go back and get a big win. Look at what Justin Gage did last year. Beats Raphael Fazeve. Goes in there, steps back, beats a dangerous dude. Then he gets the BMF fight.

Now he's probably going to fight for the belt. If Dustin wants to get a title shot, like these are the kind of fights you're going to have to go back and take. And I think a lot of people, especially the hardcore fan base, they see Benoit Santini is a pretty dangerous cat. So, yeah, I love it. As far as, like, the five-rounder thing, I think, I don't know if we'll see this, like, all the time. But, I mean, we're certainly not going to see this on, like, apex cards or anything. But the occasional, you know, fight night event that's on the road or maybe a pay-per-view doesn't have two title fights. Could we see it as long as the star power is really good?

Sure. Why the hell not? But I like it for this fight. and I would have loved it for Sauriki and Alvara, but the way I view that fight right now is I don't even know if you're going to need a round for that fight. I think that fight's going to be nuts.

It's going to be pure chaos until someone goes betty by, and it's going to be a crazy-ass fight. The Mazadl-D-S thing, I figured this is going to come up. Everybody saw the tweet from Happy Punch that this was a done deal. It was confirmed. I am here to tell you it is not a done deal.

Is it being discussed? Yes. Is this what all the parties want? Yes, Ariel tweeted that last night as well. It is, we're at the in-the-work stage. For this fight, there is multiple reasons why we are in the in-the-work stage. I will share more about that if this fight becomes like a full, a 100% thing.

I can assure you there are a lot of upset people about that tweet last night because it's not a done deal. It's not a done deal in terms of that fight. Having said that, I told you guys for weeks, probably well over a month now, that for those who were thinking that Nate Diaz is going to come back at UFC 300, when I kept saying, hey, listen, there's not a lot of things that would shock me about UFC 300, but Nate Diaz fighting at UFC 300 would be shocking. Again, I had no insight to this fight whatsoever. This is kind of what my gut was telling me,

knowing this business the way that I do, and I've learned over the last few years, that this was a viable option. I knew Nate wasn't fighting at UFC 300, and I had a pretty damn good feeling that if Jorge Mazadol was going to fight again, it was not going to be in MMA. It was going to be in boxing.

He was going to box. He's got his own freaking boxing promotion. And when you have a guy like Nate that's out there, at least for now you get to strike all the iron's hot and i think that fight if it gets made and if it gets done is going to sell a lot and it's going to be a big build and all of that stuff so uh i learned a little bit more about it to say that it's done and it's confirmed is just not true will i be do i think it's going to happen probably but to report it and say that it's done is just not true it's just not true there are roadblocks there are still hurt

to jump over. There's things that need to be ironed out before that is a done deal. So that fight's not done. Is it being talked about yes? Is it done? No. What this means for 300? I don't know. Maybe they do do Justin Gaichi versus Max Holloway at UFC 300 for the BMF title. It'd be pretty freaking cool. And for those who have listened to On to the next one over the years, that is like the fight for me. That is the fight I have to see at some point before both guys move on with their careers. And the fact that the UFC went with Al Jemaine Sterling versus Calvin Cater instead of Al Jemaine Sterling versus Max Holloway. And now seeing that Islam might be hurt and what are we going to do with Justin Gachie and UFC 300 needing a compelling and sellable main event?

That one would probably do it. Now, it's not the biggest star power main event you could make for UFC 300. But when we're talking about chaos and insanity, Justin Gagey versus Max Holloway is the main event. And if you do like Leon Edwards, Bala Muhammad is the co-main event, or you do something else and do three title fights, but that's the main event, that's pretty cool. And we get Charles Oliver versus Armand-Serukia on top of that,

not to mention the other fights that are announced. That's not a bad lineup. So I don't know what this means for Gachie. I don't know if we're going to do the Holloway fight. I have no idea. I would love to see it, but I don't know what's going to happen there. that's where we're at with all that other stuff. But more to be to follow up on with some of this other stuff,

hopefully within the next couple of weeks. Ali, go ahead. Hey, Mike, I go ahead. I just want to get your thoughts on the whole Ian Gary on the MMA hour yesterday with him having those like written lines and still not even seeing the point about like the whole Neo-Magney situation. Yeah, I just want to get your take on that. that and have a heck of a morning.

Boy, I got to tell you, that was a roller coaster of an interview because as things were progressing and as things were going on, I'm sitting there. I'm like, excuse me, I'm like, man, this is, this is kind of tough to listen to. Like, I can only imagine what this guy went through. And then as things continued on and you started responding to other things and asked if he regrets anything that he's done and him saying things that he's done and him saying things that he said, I was like, man, he's not great at this. He's not great at it. I saw a lot of people saying he was like reading lines. I don't know if that's true or not. But at the same token,

I didn't love it. I didn't love it. Shout out to him for at least putting out there that you know, the PI does have like a program where you can improve your mental health and all that stuff and I think that's great. That's something that, you know, I had heard might have been the case, but to hear a fighter on the biggest show in MMA on planet Earth come out and say that, I think that's good to know. I think that's a very, that's a big deal. And I think, I hope fighters take advantage of that while they're there. Having said that, I just didn't love the last probably 15 minutes of the interview. I didn't love it. I didn't love the Neil Magny thing. I didn't love how he lumps all of sort of the MMA personalities together as MMA media as a whole.

I didn't love that. Yeah, there's a lot I didn't like. There's a lot I didn't like. Look, I was there when Neil Magny said what he said. And to me, it just, it sounded like he was just saying stuff. Like, it didn't seem like he was outright saying like I beat up my kids or anything. and I thought, I don't, like, here Ian, like, kind of react the way that he did,

at least being in the room and trying to play armaged psychologist. I was like, man, I think he's kind of reaching for something here. And I wasn't the only one who thought that. There were a lot of media members in the room who heard it and were like, huh, this is, but it didn't seem like he was being all that serious about it.

Yeah, I didn't love it. I didn't love it. Now, in terms of getting yourself over, in a sport like this, I don't think it hurts them all that much. Because people are, I think he's going to, he's going to continue to get over. Whether you like him or not, you're going to want to pay to see him fight. Whether you are a fan of his or whether you want to see him get the shit kicked out of him,

you're going to pay money to see if that happens. I think Jeff Neal is going to have a lot of fans. And by the time February 17th rolls around and we get to UFC 298, even with the card looking the way that it is and some of the other fights on there, including the Alexander Volcanowski-Iliate-Tiporia fight, I can assure you this is going to have a very UFC 2-96-ish-5 to it, where by the time we get to this card and by the time we get to fight, we can probably even before that, we're already talking about this now,

before 296 even, or before 297 even, by the time we get to 298, we're going to be talking about Ian, Gary, and Jeff Neal. Like, that's the fight we're going to be talking about. in Ian Machado Gary is going to be in the news he's going to be making headlines fighters are going to have things to say about him it's going to happen and he will be the most talked about fight by the time that event rolls around it's going to happen it's going to happen so if that's what he was hoping for he's probably going to get his wish but all in all if I were to grade the interview as a whole C minus

and had he probably not, had that interview stopped before the Neil Magni question, it probably would have been a little bit better. But yeah, I didn't think it was great. I really didn't. It was tough to listen to. But I did like some of the things he had to say about what he was dealing with.

He was pretty honest about it. Yeah, but there were some things I did not like. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo. Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements.

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but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Cole, go ahead. Good morning, Mike. I just have a question. So when you hear like Porre's taking this fight, I immediately think he's probably getting paid like seven figures to show.

So with that being like a five-rounder and with the first ever five-round not main event being like, what was it, Edwards versus Diaz, do you think when the UFC is forced, to pay these stars like seven figures or just insane amount of money just to show do you think they're like oh we'll just make it a five rounder and it makes a little bit more sense for us or like there has to be some kind of like logic where they're like oh we're paying this guy so much so i'm going to make it a five rounders or it has something to do with the paper view points or there has

to be something more to that that like we're not really getting but and yeah man like anytime you're on, anytime you're live on YouTube, turn those super chats on, Mike. Like, the amount of free content you guys give us, you and your whole crew, like, man, I wouldn't mind throwing you guys like 10 bucks a week. Like, shit, who knows? Thanks, Mike. Well, it's something to think about. I've never done super chats or anything like that.

So maybe that's something we can do. I don't know. Work in progress. Honestly, like that live YouTube heck of a morning came about like two, like three or four hours before it actually happened. So I was just like, you know, let's just try it. And the powers of view is like, yeah, go ahead and try it. It's a random Friday, so I don't know how well it's going to go, but people seem to like it.

So that's good. Look, I think Pory is making close to seven figures either way, no matter who he fights and when he fights. So, but I'm sure at this point with the options becoming limited and Poreet being offered a guy like Benoit Santini, who, let's be honest, we know who Ben-Wa-Santini is, but most fans who aren't us don't really know who this guy is. So maybe this was a way for Pori to get like a couple of extra shekels and make it a little bit more worth this while to not fight at 300 because I know how much he wanted to fight at 300.

But at the same token, I think the more he learns about Ben-Wa-Santhini and probably going back and watching some of his fights, one of his teammates Tiago Moises fought Benoit Sonsonine, got his ass beat. And Tiago Moise is a very good defensive fighter, and I don't care who was fighting that dude that night in Paris. Benoit was going to pretty much do what he did that night. So this is probably a fight that kind of gives Poria those butterflies

that forces him to get up and train his ass off, because, as we talked about on the reaction pod yesterday, if Dustin Pori loses his fight, it ain't going to be like, he's not losing a 48-47 decision. He's going to get bludgeoned if he loses. It's going to be a vicious, violent ending if he loses this fight. I'm sure he wants to avoid it at this point, his career. And look, there's a part of Dustin Poria that wants to get back to a title shot.

And his star power in today's UFC could get him there. But he's got to win this fight. So I think there's enough there to keep him in play for title contention. He'd probably get a few extra bucks to do five rounds and take this fight and not fight at 300. At the same token, I'm sure Dustin kind of looks at it almost like a home game because he does train an American top team, which is not that far from Miami, as much as he wanted to fight at 300. So all in all, like, big Cahune is for Porre. I dig it. And I do think he can gain some stuff.

Now, if he loses, he's probably never getting a title fight. He's completely out of the conversation forever. But, yeah, I think he probably got a few extra bucks to make this a five-runner. I'm sure BSD did as well. And I don't know if you guys have seen the ticket prices for Miami. They ain't cheap. So the UFC's going to get that money back pretty quickly by the time we get to fight night and that event sells out, which it will.

It will definitely sell out. Yeah, they won't be getting pay-per-view points or anything like that. Terrence, go ahead. Hey, Mike. Good morning. So I have a few, like, conspiracy things to say, and then I'll ask my questions. One thing I wanted to say is I think that they're loading up $2.99 because of what Aljo said, and it's going to sound probably stupid, like, at first, but to give me out.

they said basically he was like I thought shown was the star like I thought my paper view numbers would be better and I got this check back and it wasn't all that great I think that they're wanting to show like oh wait he is a great star look at these pay-per-view numbers but they're really loading up the 299 cards so that way it can be great and they can show the fans that are and also Sean that he can say like hey no I did these pay-per-views look at this and then also the stockholders and things like that, that they have another star in the hand. Since people are saying, like, UFC can't make stars anymore,

I think they're trying to force to make a star like Conner or Ronda or somebody who naturally sells. You know what I mean? The other thing that I want to say is this is another conspiracy. I think that Justin is more or less, well, not just to me, Islam and Ali are basically saying that he's injured because he's the manager of Justin and he wants that fight. So he can like miraculously, like, get better at the right time. And then Justin to have the opportunity to get that fight before this number one contender bout. You know what I mean?

Those are my two conspiracy things. The question I had, though, was, let's say for example, one is going under this year. Let's say, for example, they do. And all the players are on the chopping block. how do you see a Sean versus DJ going or like a Sean excuse me a DJ versus like Cheeto going like how you see those matchup going I know he's probably gonna retire if that does happen or just in general and also if you had the opportunity to purchase anybody from one's contract who are you

purchasing who would you match them up again thank you man stuff to say stuff to say Malkin I'd probably bring over. DJ would be fun, but I'd rather see him fight like, honestly, I'd rather see him fight the fly weights than the bannam weights. I'd rather see him fight

like Moreno and Pantosia and those guys, honestly. But, yeah, and I'm with you, DJ probably if that's something like that does happen and one goes under, like DJ probably does retire.

DJ is making so much money. fighting for them, it's not even, like, it's not even funny. Like, the UFC will never be able to match anywhere near where one is paying him. I don't have, like, actual numbers, but I know it's, like, laughable when it comes to, like, the amount of money he's made fighting for one. So, it would be pretty cool. I don't think it happens, but if they did bring him back over, I'd rather see DJ Fait the Flywights. I know he doesn't want to really cut that much anymore, but I think he's,

think like the cooler fights would be at 125 to the conspiracy theories where do I want to begin well we'll know about the gaichi one uh soon enough one would would gather uh because if they announce Islam versus gaichi for like 300 or for Saudi Arabia or and I'll get to the other thing that could happen like if they if they announce this fight for March or April which I don't think it's going to be at 300 because of Ramadan. Then we kind of know that maybe Dana just kind of misspoke a little bit. Because that was the glaring thing from the whole announcement for me was, okay, where's Justin Gachey and all of this?

What's happening here? And if that's the case, if, like, Islam's really not injured, and Gatia is, like, kind of sitting out, waiting to figure out what's going to happen. And then he's going to have to watch either Oliver or Sarukian get a title shot before him. Like, I'm firing Ali. at that point. Like, he should not be fighting anybody unless it's for the belt.

And if he has to watch somebody else skip over him, then what are you doing? Like, what are we doing here? But we'll see how that all plays out. Maybe they booked it and we don't know. Maybe Dana misspoke, which is possible. Dana has misspoke many, many, many, many times. The other thing you mentioned was

the Aljo talking about Sean O'Malley not being as big of a draw whatever. And look, we knew heading in to that fight, and I talked about this on the show a lot. If there is one, just think about what was going on between July 1st and August 18th or whatever that event was. UFC 22. We had 290. We had 291. We had Jake Paul Nate Diaz and we had 22. Now, considering what was the trends at the time, if there was one fight card that an MMA fan was going to choose to skip, they were choosing to skip 292. There's no doubt about it. Like, that was the easy skip of those events.

And if you're not even, if you didn't give a shit about Jake Paul and Nate Diaz, you still have to worry about purchasing three paper views within a six-week stretch. and if you looked at the lineups on paper, 290, 291 were far better on paper than 2902. And this is the Boston guy finally was excited to get a Boston pay-per-view card. 292 was the easy skip, 1,000%. And as we talked about even after that event, you can't gauge O'Malley Star Power on how that pay-per-view did. What you can judge it on is being in that building,

being there for fight week. It was the Sean O'Malley show in Boston all week. People love that guy. They sold out and I believe outside of like a game seven for the Celtics, it was the biggest gate they've ever had. So clearly from that perspective, Sean O'Malley was a draw. He was the most popular guy on the card. By a mile.

There were Sean O'Malley wigs everywhere in Boston. They loved him. There were a million Sean O'Malley. self-esteem jerseys in Boston. Everywhere I went, anyone that talked to me about this card, were there to watch Sean O'Malley fight. So Sean was a draw

in terms of ticket sales. What we will gauge Sean O'Malley on now is what he does with his next fight. So my whole thing was, and to go back to your conspiracy theory after that one,

how I would do this if all the other options have been played out. If we're using Sean O'Malley and we're trying to push him as a star, then why are we putting him at $2.99? Why not just put him at $300? Instead, because that's going to do more for him, I think. Would it not? Like, I've been saying for a while, like, if we're trying to figure

like, Leon Edwards, Bilal Muhammad is not it. It's not the UFC 300 main event that anybody wants to see. it's going to be flatulets in church. If Dana White comes out later on today and says, hey, here's the main event for UFC 300. It's Leon Edwards versus Belal Muhammad. People be like, what? What are you talking about?

That can't be the main event. If Maka Chiff is really not injured and they have already booked this fight for Justin Gachi, what I would do is I would do Mockachev versus Gagee at $299 and I would move, and now it makes a little bit more sense with PORI and BSD is the co-main event, and then I would move O'Malley and Cheeto

to 300. Like, that's how you get cheap. That's how you get shone over. That's how you justify pay-per-view buys, which by the way, and I've said this a million times too, the UFC doesn't give a shit about pay-per-view buys. Like, if they could do a million, great.

It's just cherry on top of the Sunday. There's a reason why we don't know how many pay-per-views they sell. Because they don't care. They're getting a whole bunch of money from ESPN regardless if it sells one pay-per-view or a billion. It doesn't matter. It doesn't affect their bottom line that much.

What they care about is selling out arenas and they care about the TV deal. That's how they make all their money. That's why they're so profitable. It's not because the pay-per-view buys. They're profitable because of the TV deal. So that they could sell 100 paper views and it doesn't change anything. They're still going to make a whole lot of money on that card. But if we're basing it on that, if we want to attach a pay-per-view number to Shawano Malley, do $300.

Just move it back a month. It's easy to say sitting here in South Carolina in my office, as opposed to the guys who are fighting. But do you think Sean O'Malley and Cheevera, if they call them right now and say, hey, you want to push this fight back and be the main event of UFC 300 that they would complain about that? They'd probably be like, oh, damn, that's pretty frigging cool.

I don't know. I don't know. We'll find out. We'll find out. But if they're going to, if Mokachev is going to fight, in the first quarter of the year, or the first third of the year, he's going to fight in March. He's not fighting in April.

He's fighting in March. And he would have to fight in Saudi Arabia or at 299. Otherwise, we're not going to see him. And until Ramadan's over and then he gets a full camp and all that. So it could be June, July, and then he's going to fight again in October probably. I don't know. You're asking a lot of the man. So if he's dinged up, we'll find him.

out, but I'm very curious to see how Justin Gachie is involved in all of this. If they're going to do something else, I don't know. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form,

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Hi, what's up, Mike. I hope you have been a great day today. I just have two, three questions. I'll make it quick. So my first question is thoughts on the Charles Oliver Armand fight and what's at stake. Do you reckon for both fighters in terms of definitely? future lightweight or as you said the title shot and um you know depending on who wins or

loses what will be their pathway for either fight if they lose my other question is um before you know with the johnny uncalaiv fight um if you recall from the first one who do you think was actually winning that fight before the disqualification um occurred you know and just to add to your Convo about the whole Shaw-Nomali paper if you think I think from what I just Observe from your your convo with the other participant earlier I can see that the UFC's business Clearly seems to be solely about their brand and not even the fighters itself like which is fine because the brand is what's popular and what people are tuning in but I kind of wonder like when people are calling McGregor retired John Jones,

Adisania, you know, like some of the biggest stars who actually have a name right now, what are they going to do? Because I'm not saying that they can't create stars, but I would say at some point

you're going to need to at least have pay-per-view level stars who can carry the sport and reliable stars, preferably, who are active. Because if you're going to have people who are like Leon Edwards or, like, let's say,

uh, Pennington, if she becomes a champ next week, next week or, you know, like, like, I guess I don't know anyone else that's flyweight. That's not maybe Kappa Mokai, like, how are you going to carry the sport? Because in my opinion, yes, I do see fans love the UFC, but I definitely think the UFC does need to have at least someone who can reach similar levels of Khabib or Ronda as a megastar. And, you know, you have other, other stars that can carry the sport that even get the non-MMA.

fans invest in this sport and bring the company money and the fighters themselves from success. That's what I have. Have a great day. I don't think they care about that. I really don't. We've had like, just think about it. We've had like four or five like actual crossover megastars in the history of the UFC, like megastars.

Dana White's one of them. There is just not a ton there. And at this point, they don't need it. They don't need it. You talk about pay-per-view buys and all that stuff. I would guess every pay-per-view did like 300,000 buys this year. Maybe not the Nunes Aldana card. Maybe that one didn't.

But for the most part, they're probably averaging like 250 to 3, like at worst for all of these. Like, they have people like hooked in. Like, they're hooked. And all these events are going to sell out. They're just red hot. The UFC is selling out arenas before announcing main events. Like, they're doing it all the time. So they don't, the brand is just so on fire right now.

It really is. So I really don't think they need it. I think they're trying with O'Malley. I mean, how many times have you seen on a pay-per-view, like coming out of a pay-per-view, they just go right to YouTube and post a finish. They did it with Sean. I don't remember any real other time they've done that.

So they're trying with Sean. And I think Sean is probably the guy that can bring in new fans. I think he already has already. So, I mean, they have him. They can build upon him. Is he going to become McGregor? No. There is going to, we're not going to see that again.

There is going to be no other, there's not going to be another Connor McGregor. There may not be another Habib. There may not be, there's probably not going to be another Rondorowski. But they don't need it. They don't need it right now. They're just, they're on fire. Now, four or five years from now, maybe they will, but probably not. Like this next TV deal they're about to sign is going to be worth so much money.

Like they're going to be set forever with this new TV deal. It's going to be crazy depending on where it ends up. So maybe we'd like to see them have new stars. But the UFC doesn't need to do that. You know who needs to do that? PFL needs to do that. They need stars. Francis may never fight for them in an M.M.A fight.

If he goes out there dusts up Anthony Joshua in March, like this dude's never fighting an M. again. Did you hear him on the MMA hour yesterday? My biggest takeaway from that is he's not fighting an MMA this year and he might not ever fight an MMA again.

If he goes out and has it beats Anthony Joshua, he's not fighting. He's not fighting in M. M. M. M.A. Why would he? Why would he? They got Cedric Dume Bay but you have to continue

to build him up. They need stars. They don't have a brain. They, you can't, they're not, even with like the Kayla Harrisons of the world who they try to make a big star, like those pay-per-views probably sold like 10,000 at the most. At the most, they need stars. UFC doesn't need stars right now.

They're in the news, they have all the headlines. They're the brand. Most people think UFC is like, I do UFC. They think UFC is MMA. that's how hot they are right now. So I don't think that's true. I don't think they need any, like, mega stars right now. They got enough.

They get enough. Look at Sean Strickland right now. Sean Strickland is so over. He's not a megastar, but he's super over right now. People want to hear what he has to say. So they have, like, good potential stars, but they don't need, like, a megastar. They really don't. So I will push back slightly there.

It's the brand that's the star. Four corners. Are you going to hear him? All right. Yes. All right. So I want to give my flowers to Dustin Pecorri because I've been on him because he mentioned a couple weeks ago about trying to get to fight Nate Diaz.

And I said on the show, it's not a fight that, you know, many fans, you know, I feel like care to watch. Because it's like watching a movie that you already know that has the outcomes. But we're going to know that it's probably go off a round. and, you know, and Dustin's and most likely on the winning. And needs to have a moment. Well, I'm actually really hyped that he actually took the fight against Benoit Santany because, like you guys said on the emergency podcast, that, you know, Benoit has never fought anybody of the caliber of Dustin Porier,

which makes it even more intriguing because, you know, I would like to see, you know, what levels and what heights this guy can go to, you know, when fighting a high caliber of a fighter of Dustin Porriere. and I feel like, you know, Dustin has the ability to, you know, really, you know, knock out Ben Wong. I think this fight is going to extend out maybe to the second round, third round, possibly. I can't see this fight going all five rounds. I'm very intrigued. I know everyone is almost the USC 300.

I'm very intrigued on what's going to be for that Saudi Arabia card. Because I know Dana says this is not going to be your very typical fight night card. I imagine they're going to just try to, you know, stack this card up for Saudi Arabia. You know, if Islam's not going to be the main event, I wonder who would be. I can't imagine them making like Muhammad Baha'iav, you know, as, you know, on the main event, maybe, you know, on the main card. And then lastly, you know, I've been a very big John Jones fan and it's becoming incredibly hard to defend the man. and his comments about Tom Aspinall saying that, you know, I don't know who 90% of the people you've been fighting on your resume.

You know, I've been a champion since I was 23. Well, I feel like John was that hungry killer, you know, in his 20s. Same way that, you know, Tom is trying to reach the levels that John is inspiring. But it just feels like John is really trying to hold himself down and really try to protect his legacy. and wants little to know part of Tom Aspinall because he doesn't want to take any risk whatsoever. And I feel like, you know, I feel like Jed, you know,

was half-heartedly joking, you know, when he said that John was scared and every time I see this guy's sweet and people clap back at him saying that he's scared, it's starting to really feel like, you know what, he does not want that smoke with Tom Aspinall because he knows that, one, he's older and two, Tom can possibly put the lights out

and it could really put a big stain on the legacy of John Jones. All right, Mike, that's what I've got to say. All right. See you. Thanks, man. Yeah, Saudi Arabia, I have no idea what's going to happen there, especially if Islam's not going to be able to fight. So that's, I don't know.

They got to make a decision real quick on that one. They got to do something real fast. The John Jones thing is just, it's kind of funny at this point. Tom just kind of keeps poking him from a distance, and now he got John's attention. And John is doing John things. None of this is surprising. Like, none of it is surprising to me.

John's, like, John at this point in his career has done it all. The man has done at all. And if you're a guy like John, you want Tom to chase you. Like, make him dance. Make him, make him chase you. That's what you should do when you're at a position like John Jones. And if you're John Jones, you're in prize fight mode. They're not in legacy.

Like, John Jones's legacy is said. It's set already. He can retire tomorrow, and he's got to retire in most people's eyes is the greatest of all time. So, I mean, it's a pretty damn good legacy. And at this point, you just want to go out and make money. You want to make it worth your while. And right now, John doesn't think Tom is worth his while.

Sipay at least has the championship pedigree at this point. And it's a very winnable fight for John. John, like a super winnable fight for John. So you scratch that itch. You go and get that. You retire his heavyweight champion. Retire undefeated. I know the Matt Hamill thing, whatever.

Dude's legacy set. Dude's legacy set. He's just saying, Tom, give me some more. Give me something. Give me something. And I told you this was going to happen a while back. It's prize fighting, John. John ain't here to just rifle through the heavyweight division.

John is here to make money. John is here to be a prize fighter. That's what he's here for. And yeah, is he going to pick steep over Tom Aspen? Of course. Most people would. Most people would do that. That's just the nature of the beast right now.

So I get where bold guys are coming from. I understand why people look at John and they think he's scared. and I understand why people are reacting to this the way that they are. But this is John, man. John's doing exactly what I expected him to do. We got the deleted tweets and all that. And Tom's clapping back and trying to get John to bite. And John ain't going to bite, man.

He's not. He's not going to bite. What Tom needs to do is fight. Defend that interim title. What Tom needs to do is make it feel like his title is real and John's isn't. that's what he has to do. And that's how you get John's attention. You get the masses just naturally saying

Tom Aspinall is the heavyweight champion. Because the UFC is not going to do it. They're not going to do it right now. John's certainly not going to be like, yeah, you know what? Tom, you're right. I'm scared. You can be the champion. No. What Tom need to do is make that belt feel like the real belt.

That's how you get John's attention. That's how you do it. And until then, this is, what we're going to see. We're just going to see John clap back. Tom trying to be, you know, trying to get the fans behind him. It seems like he's doing a good job of that. But this is exactly what I expected to happen between these two guys.

And if I'm Tom, I'm not even worried about John Jones at this point. I'm worried about getting that his belt over as the real belt and then let John come to him. If he can. If not, just don't worry about it. Do you hear me? Yep. I got you. In regards to Francis Ngano, I think you're absolutely spot on.

I don't think he's coming back to MMA. With the boxing, I think he has a good chance to make some noise here. I mean, he's already ranked in the – I think he's already ranked in the boxing rankings, if I'm not mistaken. You know, and there's a real possibility he could beat Anthony Joshua. I still don't – I still think Joshua's chin is suspect. you know and all you need in that heavyweight division is power so and here's the thing about it too and i was thinking about this with with with dionte wilder wilder has the power but the difference between the two is and gano's coachable that man listens to his coaches and you know the more

experience that he gets the better he's going to become the more dangerous he's going to become and who knows and people may think i'm nuts i think he could be champion heavyweight champion in boxing Now, I was also talking to a front of mine. I felt like, man, Angano should have started with boxing from the jump, but he made a good point where he said, no, no, no, this is good that he started with MMA, because look at him now, he just skipped the line. He didn't have to, like, start from the bottom

with, like, any other boxer to work his way up. He may not even had this opportunity at all. But just the fact that what he was able to do in MMA, and then bet on himself and sees this opportunity, he won. And, man, you know, I was talking to my cousin, he's a big boxing fan. I'm like, man, he thinks he has a shot as well. Like, again, because Joshua hasn't looked great. I mean, after that fight against Clitchco, that went 12 rounds.

I think people thought Clitchco won that fight, if I'm not mistaken. But, you know, they gave it to Joshua. And I'm like, man, I really believe. Francis that he could do something here. And then, you know, kudos also to Eric Nixick, you know, helping him out for a very long time. And then, you know, training with Mike Tyson and just working on footwork, being patient, and just getting better over time.

And I mean, he's going to, I think he's going to look really good against Joshua. You know, I'm not saying he's going to win, but I give him a good chance, man, a really, really good chance in that fight. And as far as Benoit Santinise, I heard for a corner sports, and you know, he's picking Porre to win that fight. I'm just like, man,

what is the problem, the issue that Porre has always faced, grapplers? And when he fought, look who he lost to in championship fights. Lost to who? Abib, and then who else he lost to? Charles Olvera, who are very good grapplers. You're facing another grappling, and you're

facing a guy who has a granite chin, and I know poor he arrives in those situations, but we're talking about, I mean, Benoit sent Denise, man, that dude does not stop. That guy keeps pressing forth. And if you heard him on the MMA hour when he talked to Ariel, he was like, dude, I love that, man. I love that fight, man. I love going back and forth. And he, you know, Benoit's kind of built like Matu's Gamrod. Like, those guys don't get finished, man. So against when those two fights, it's either going to be a Poirier winning by decision, a close one, or it's going to go the other way where Poir could get finished by submission or lose in a close decision as well going to war. So that's my thoughts about it.

You know, so that's all I've got to say. Thanks, Mike. It's going to be great. It's going to be a great fight. And Dustin can't win. I mean, one thing, if you want to poke holes in Sonsidese game, and you're right, he does have a granite chin. But boy, can that chin get hit. That chin can get hit.

And Porre still got the pop to land a big shot. Do I think he goes out and finishes him? Probably not. But five-round experience also matters. It matters a ton. And Poria has been there. many times and Santini has not at least at this level so i love everything about this fight it's so good we'll see how it plays out uh i think we're going to get a war and wouldn't shock me if we go

to the cards for that one in a bloody battle that has fight of the year written all over it uh frances yeah dude francis josh was good fight uh it was the right thing and we'll see what happens we'll see what happens New York Rick tweeted something about a half hour ago which you know going back to the John and Tom thing this is spot on in my opinion New York Rick tweets John and Tom are both right

John is right to feel that he's earned the ability to choose more widely known names his opponents based on the current UFC ecosystem Tom is right to be frustrated and think that there's a better way for this ecosystem to work I think he nailed it I think he nailed it Couldn't have said it any better

We'll go to Eric and Think that's gonna be it Eric go ahead Santon yeah What the other guy said I think Sanctin me or Dust's employee Might win this is in And one out of those ones

Do you see the trilogy between Dustin and the H.E. for this year For the BMF belt Thanks guys No Probably not probably not on the the Dustin Justin front

like why would why would Justin want to fight him again at this point? You just stiffed him five six months ago so no I mean if Justin wins the belts could they do it sure there's a story there

but I think that's really the only way that fight happens again and yeah poor ascenta's gonna be good fight all right we got two more we'll go rapid fire and then I gotta go because I have like 7,000 interviews to do today Toke, go ahead.

Two things, and it's going to be very short. Firstly, I'm going to say, I'm glad you're doing things on YouTube as well, trying it out. But I feel like the energy gets better in this Twitter spaces. So if there was some kind of way to merge the two, that would be great because I watch a lot of things on YouTube. So that would be. But I like the energy of getting the call-ins as well. So it's kind of double-edged. I mean, it's kind of ambiguous, I guess.

And then, yeah, as I wrote on your last show, so, I mean, now we get this Francis and Ganu fight instead because boxing didn't do the thing, and I'm very delighted about this. This is hilarious. Just ultimate karma for not booking the fight that you want, but booking something in the in-between. So, yeah, you've got to learn the lesson, boxing. sorry. And yeah, more Twitter spaces and try and merge it with YouTube if possible. Thank you.

Yeah, it's a work in progress. We'll figure out how to do it. I don't know. But like people want a lot of different things of the show. Like they like the calling thing, but they want guests too. And I feel like the guest thing works better on YouTube. So I don't know.

I mean, really like the whole initial plan with the show was to be like, Like a lot of these sports have their own sort of morning shows. Like if you go on the NBA network and the NFL network, they have their own morning shows. And eventually this is what I would like this to become. I don't think you can get that way here. More so with YouTube,

but I do like the call in nature doing like a sports radio show. But I don't know how to really do that. And then, yeah, boxing, not doing the thing leads to you know, Francis, who has done the thing and did it great, getting a big fight. So, and if Francis beats Anthony Joshua, holy shitballs. There we go. All right. This is it.

Real fast, like 30 seconds or less, crypto, and then I'll do, and that's it. Go ahead, crypto. I connected a bit too late to the calls. I don't know if you have already talked about this, I guess that you have. But this Francis PFL relationship, it kind of reminds me of Mike, when you see this like 80-year-old billionaire marrying a 25-year-old and they have literally nothing in common where this young model does whatever she wants to. It's all about the money and so on. What am I missing here, Mike? I know that you discussed this during the reaction.

And like, to me, this is terrible news for the PFL. I honestly do think that there is a great possibility right now that we will never see Francis fight for PFL. I mean, he's no young spring chicken. If he keeps on winning and performing in boxing, I highly doubt that he will actually fight in MMA again, ever. If I'm done, I would be like, what the hell the judge? happen or if i'm an investor mike if i'm an investor in the pfl and you're telling me that we

signed this guy i mean this is i mean this is a guy that has been signed to the pfl what is i don't remember the exact date but i mean it's been a while right and we don't even we don't even know what to do with him it's almost like buying a ferrari but living in the middle of the jungle and having no roads like yeah good luck you have the ferrari but you're not going to be able to use it. There's no opponent. He's making a career in boxing. And let's be honest, Mike. And this is, once again, this is no criticism to Francis. He is an absolute boss. I mean, he has played his cards in the best way possible. And he deserves everything. But from the PFL side, I mean, I would be like, what the hell did it just happen? Like, is he ever going to fight for us? Like,

it's just a strange situation for me, Mike. So I don't know, maybe you talked about this, but I don't agree i don't agree with shaheen saying that this is amazing for the pfl francis doesn't promote the pfl and he's no young guy there is a big possibility that he might fight once for them if they're lucky but i think that the pfl will look back at this and just wonder what the hell happened so that's my question and second fin mike uh talk to a k crypto i'm sorry i got i have to go my man i have to go um because i have interviews lined up i have to i have to knock this out it's why we I always started a little bit earlier, but I appreciate the thought. And come back Thursday.

We'll answer the other question. We'll see what happens. Look, I don't, I kind of agree with Rick and Shaheen, because, look, this, it's good PR, and they did get Francis at a rate. So even if Francis doesn't fight for them, like, he's still valuable. He's still, his face will be part of the promotion. When they do venture into Africa, he's going to be a big part of that. whether you fights or not.

Francis will have an attachment to that, and Francis will be able to help put that over a little bit. So there will be value there. But at the same time, is it going to be an M.MA fighter? Probably not. But you could still do stuff with Francis. Like, you could still do a wilder fight, the mixed rules thing.

You could still do that. You could still do that. I have no interest in Francis fighting an M.A. right now. None. Zippo. None, none, none. But his name, his value, uh, will help them. It just, it will.

Do it, this whole co-leader thing is, is nonsense. I think we could all agree with that. But yeah, I don't think he fights an M.A. But I get to go, everybody. Thank you all so much. Uh, we'll be back on Thursday. Yeah, I have lots of interviews today. So if anybody else wanted to talk, I'm sorry.

Uh, I'd really have to go because I have to produce this because my first interview is coming up in about 20 minutes. So thank you all very much. Much, much appreciated. Back on Thursday, we'll do it again. Until that, everybody, have a great rest of your day. And have a heck of a morning.