MMA Fighting - HOAM | Is Dana White Losing Any Sleep Over PFL-Bellator Merger?

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

The PFL absorbing Bellator was massive news on Monday with an expanded roster, a "reimagined" Bellator, and Donn Davis stating that PFL is now on the verge of being a "co-leader" in the MMA space alongside the UFC — even saying that UFC CEO Dana White is now "worried" about this new merger. But did White, or anyone in the UFC, lose any sleep with this news? On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck reacts to the big news of the week, Davis' interview with Ariel Helwani on The MMA Hour, his claims about the move making PFL an equal powerhouse to the UFC, and White being worried — which is likely is not. Additionally, more listener questions about the deal, the future of Bellator champions, potential interesting matchups between PFL and Bellator champions, how the deal was announced, Brendan Allen's title hopes at 185 pounds following hiis UFC Vegas 82 win over Paul Craig, and more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. It is Tuesday, November 21st, 2023, and it is indeed a heck of a morning. We are live on the M-A-Fighting Twitter space. You can hear the show in its entirety,

shortly thereafter on the MMA Fighting Podcasting Network. What's going on, everybody? I am Mike Kank. Hope you're all having a wonderful start to the week. Yes, we are coming off of UFC Vegas 82. Yes, we are coming off of Bellator 301. Bellator story actually has a little bit more meaning

right now because of what we're going to talk about today. There's a lot going on in the world that makes martial arts, including the finalization. of maybe the worst kept secret in the history of our sports. It was made official yesterday morning that the PFL has now merged with Bellator. They have, I don't know if they bought the company is the right thing, but they basically have absorbed them. No cash was involved. This is a straight stock deal.

Paramount will continue to own a minority share of the PFL. And there's a lot to digest here. There's a lot to digest. First thing I want to talk about, you may hear my voice is a little horse. Bear with me. The one thing about South Carolina that is a drawback is that in Massachusetts,

allergy season was like six weeks long. Here in South Carolina, it's like all year long and then there's like three parts of the year where it's just awful and we are smack dab in the middle of the last awful time of the year where seasonal allergies just crush you and that's pretty much where i'm at right now so yeah so we'll start there and i'm also doing like multiple things at the same time here i am running the desk um we just broke some news a fight for December 9th, Ryan Dos Santos, the former Invicta champion, is going to the UFC, fighting Tolita Allen card, December 9th, part of the UFC Shang Vegas card.

And there we go. So let's get into all of this. So I just want to make sure I have my thoughts correctly. I know a lot of you have thoughts on this as well. And one of the questions I keep getting that I'm. kept getting yesterday was one was my reaction and I basically told everybody that I'm not going to tweet anything out I'm just going to save it I'm going to save it for this and the other question I got was like well there are two people who are really covering this like who deserves more credit for

it why aren't they getting credited I don't really care about any of that if we're being honest some of that stuff was wrong and you know we talked about it on this program a lot like I kept telling you when asked about this, whether if, you know, the reports of a done deal were accurate or not. And I told you they weren't. And I was right. There were reports about money being exchanged, 300 to 500 million, which is just laughable, if we're being honest, because we know Bellator isn't worth that much because they weren't making any freaking money. So all of that was just kind of laughable. I knew that it was a stock option type of a deal. and I also knew that there was a chance that this deal wasn't going to happen.

There was a chance Bellator 301 wasn't going to happen because if this deal wasn't going to be a thing, the company was just going to basically fold and fizzle out. So I knew all of those things. Ariel talked about it on the MA hour yesterday, but they were off the record types of situations. But I knew there was going to be no money exchange if this deal was going to go through.

And there was no way that the PFL was going to spend any money on this deal because why would they spend a half a billion dollars on a company that wasn't making any money? So they got a really good deal here. Basically, they just moved Paramount over and they get a minority share of the deal. So that's basically all it was. All in all, this is a good deal for the PFL in terms of what they got. And what they got was all the intellectual property at Bellator, and they got all the fighters contracts. Now, one question I had that really wasn't asked, but I got some answers yesterday talking to a few people, are all of those contracts coming over? And I guess like the big question I had was, is there any wiggle room

for certain fighters? Like if there are certain champions who say, hey, I, this sounds good, but I want to test myself in the UFC, can they do that? I'm told they can't right now. Not saying that that can't change, but as of right now, PFL owns all of the Bellator contracts. So there is no wiggle room as of right this second. And a lot of things were interesting that came out of this release. One was this whole, this changes the MA landscape overnight. You essentially put two number two companies to create a co-leader. The combined PFL Bellator roster now is 30% of his fighters who are ranked top 25 in the world by Fight Matrix. That's the same as UFC has on their roster.

First of all, that's absolutely not true. That is just false. Because, well, mathematics. And let's just say it was true. Let's say this is true. They have no stars. UFC is all the stars. Now, can you make a case that Francis Nagano is a star?

Absolutely. He is a star. But here's the thing. There is not one realistic MMA fight for Francis and Gano that is at all interesting. None. Zero. And I say the word realistic because John Jones would be interesting. A steep A trilogy would be somewhat interesting.

Tom Aspinall would be fun. But none of those are realistic. None of them are realistic. So I guess you could say Kayla Harrison, but if she loses it, to Aspen Ladd, like, I mean, this is a big moment for her. It's a do-or-dice moment for Kayla Harrison on Friday night. No doubt about it. Do we consider her like a big star?

I'm not really sure. To the level of like some of the UFC stars? No, she's not. And the same thing with Bellator. They don't have great fighters, but they don't have any like superstars. They don't have any needle movers with this roster. tremendous fighters, tremendous fighters. Other things that have come out.

A mega event in 2024, which will pit the PFL champions against the Bellator champions. And I'm curious to get your thoughts when I go to you guys. Do you have any interest in this? I think the idea is kind of cool because, you know, Jed and I have always talked about like it would be really cool to do like some sort of a World Cup kind of a thing. And it was cool to see the Bellator versus Rise in events. dug him.

But at least with the Bellator rise in events, there was doubts that some of the Bellator fighters could lose. I don't think any PFL fighter beats any of the Bellator fighters.

We don't even have a Bannamweight division for Patsy Mix to fight in. We don't have a middleweight division for Johnny Ebblin to fight in. And if we do a Chris Cyborg fight, they're going to probably throw in there with Kayla when Larissa Pacheco

to me would be a far more interesting fight. So that's like part of this whole thing. So all and all, from a financial perspective, this is a pretty damn good deal for the PFL. Pretty damn good deal. They didn't have to exchange a dime. And we talked about some of the press release stuff. And then we go to Don Davis on the MMA hour. And golly, man, this guy, and we've talked about this a lot. I want to read you this quote. I want to read you this quote because this isn't a whole. Well, first of all, this whole thing that PFL has been number two is just hogwash. It's just not true.

No one considered that number two. They would consider one number two over PFL. And Bellator clearly with their roster was the number two because PFL doesn't really have a great roster. And this whole thing that we are, we are not number two anymore with this deal. We are co-leaders is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Let me read you this quote from Don Davis on the M.A. hour yesterday. Quote, everybody knows Dana well enough that he only dismisses things that worry him or else he just doesn't comment. He didn't comment on the PFL for four years because he wasn't worried.

He's commented on the PFL a lot the last six months. You're worried. What specifically worried him about Bellator is the metrics we put on the press release. 30% of that roster ranked in the top 25, perfect. fight metrics rankings. This is not Dana gets to rank his own guys. Don's ranking his own guys. There's only one group that ranks all fighters, fight matrix independently. Actually, it's not true. We do it too. 30% of the UFC roster is top 25 ranked and now our combined company of PFL and Bellator 30% the same, which by the way is not true. Now to the UFC's credit,

if you look at the top five in the world, they still own the top five, one through five. So pay-per-view cards, we couldn't compete with them right now, which is why we're only going to have two, and they have 12. But if you say I'm turning on TV on ESPN Saturday night or I'm going to tune in Friday night to watch this Bellator International Series or PFL, our card's going to be better, better, because what they put on this year was ranked 70 on average fight metrics ranking. And what we're going to put on the next year is ranked 40. That's why he said, I don't know why on God's Green to Earth.

but he's buying this because he's smart and he knows that. UFC ain't the NFL. We're not the XFL, but he wants you to think that. And it's just a matter of time before that starts to get more well known, that we're not number two. We're the co-leader. He doesn't want that. That's what's going on.

This is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. Are you kidding me right now? Let me. This is a serious question. Do you think Dana White lost an ounce of sleep? over this? Do you really think he lost any sleep last night? The answer is no. Not a wink. Not a wink. None. You think the UFC is worried about this deal? Why would he be worried about this? Again, outside of Francis, and I guess you can say Jake Paul to some extent,

there's no one that's going to like outdraw the UFC. There's no one that's going to outdry the UFC. Are you kidding me? This is ridiculous. This is all ridiculous. You're not the co-leader. You're so far behind them. Even with the absorption of the Bellator roster. Because guess what? The two most interesting guys on your roster have no one to fucking fights. They have no one to fight. Patsy Mix and Johnny Ebelin have no one to fight. Nobody. So what are we doing here? And honestly, if you could think of anything compelling for those two guys that are on their roster, guess what the only ones that are interesting are? None of the PFL fighters.

You think Johnny Eblen versus Derek Brunson is competitive? Not at all. Johnny Eblen runs Derek Brunson. I don't even know if Derek Brunson's going to beat Ray Cooper the third on Friday. What are we talking about here? What are we talking about? And this is what I was worried about with this whole thing. thing is how will the PFL present themselves? Will they present themselves as, hey, we now offer

this new alternative, we're going to do some cool things. Or are they going to be, hey, we just change the game, UFC watch out. Not only are we, we're not nipping on your heels, we're equal to you. The fuck are you talking about? What are you talking about? Another question I keep getting asked. Is this thing with Bellator keeping them alive? Is it smart? No, it's so dumb. But I understand why they're doing it. They're doing it because they have to because there were contractual deals in place with television distributors around the world.

So you can't just be like, no, can't do this anymore. Part of the deal is you have to keep those agreements in place. Now, there are some reports that this is going to last. Bellator is going to be run as its own entity for two years. And that is not exactly true because we don't know. They have to go through 2024. for. And that's why they're doing this as like an international series because Bellator as a product only did really well, really overseas. The Dublin cards, the London cards, the UK cards.

Like that's where they got the biggest crowds. That's where they made the most money. That's where they made the biggest splashes. So I agree with that. And then like when you think about like who won in this deal, like here's what I'll say. One, I'm very glad that nobody from the Bellator staff is going to lose their jobs, essentially, because PFL is saying, like, hey, we want everybody over here. We want Coker, Cogan. There's only, like, a handful of staff members. Now, that doesn't include the broadcasters, because they don't work for Bellator. Belator, they work for the network. They worked for Showtime, CBS Sports, et cetera. But for like this Bellator product on screen to be interesting.

And I know they keep saying this reimagined word. They're going to have to break this thing down to the screws. You have to have all new stuff. The cage needs to change. I wish they would change the name because no, like, Bellator means nothing at this point. It means nothing. It's still a nonsensical name.

You got to replace the talent for the most part. Like, you have to change everything. Now, can they get a television network for, can they get television distribution for Belator? Probably. Is it going to be lucrative and huge? I'm not really sure. We'll see what happens there. But honestly, this whole thing that this is like a massive win for MMA, I just don't know if that's true.

In fact, I think this is kind of a win for the UFC in a lot of respects because now when their free agency, when they have somewhat stars or potential stars, that are on the cusp of free agency, they only have, like, really one option to negotiate against. It's either, hey, stay with us, possibly become a bigger star, or you can go over there to the PFL where we don't know what the fuck's going on. And what about, like, the Yaroslav Amossov's of the world?

Was it actually a good thing for Yaroslav to lose the title on Friday? Like, was it a good thing for him? Because now Yaroslav Amasov could, just go into the season and win a million dollars. Instead of just fighting one dude, whoever the PF, like Yaroslav Amosov versus Sadabu Sadi, yeah, Yaroslav Amosov wins that fight. But he makes like a fourth of that. But now he can go and make a good amount of money plus win a million dollars.

Like this might have been a win for Yaroslav Amosov. Is there one current PFL welterweight that could beat Yaroslav Amosov in an MMA fight? No. This whole thing is so confusing to me. It's so confusing. I have no idea what's going to happen. I honestly have no clue. Am I excited?

Is this going to work? I have no fucking idea. I don't think so. There's no way. I just don't see a world where they can keep both brands. I don't know how they can keep the Bellator name alive. I don't know. I honestly don't know.

Are they the legit number two promotion right now? Sure. But this co-leader stuff, come on, man. This is the thing that worried me about Bellator. It's the thing that's always worried me about the PFL, is they think they've won already. They think that, like, this move, they've won. What are you talking about?

What are you talking about? You're still selling this pay-per-view on Friday for 50 bucks. 49-99 in the U.S. And that's if you already have an ESPN-plus subscription. If you don't, you're spending over. over 60 for this thing. This thing's going to do like 3,000 buys. Like, honestly.

And this whole thing, Don was asked about it. And he said this is the, he said this is the best card of the year. He said this is better than any UFC pay-per-view. Are you fucking kidding me? This is what worries me. This is what worries me.

It is kind of a, like a bitter sweet time, though. Because Belator's been around for a long time. And they somehow survived well over a decade. And in this day and age, that ain't easy to do. It just isn't. And there are things I'm going to remember about Belator. One of the big thoughts I had, especially after Friday, because we're all tweeting glowingly about Belator and its history

and the people that work there and stuff. And I get all that. but we compare this to pride and strike force and remembering them WEC, which by the way, if you take those three entities, just remember that they were purchased by the top dog, by the top dog. That didn't happen here. But are we going to have the same memories about like 10 years from now,

10 years from now, are we going to remember Bellator with the same nostalgia as we do pride or strike force or WEC, for that matter? I don't think so. I don't think so. This is the most TBD news in the history of the sport. And it's big news. Don't get me wrong. And let me just say this. I know I ain't coming off as the most positive person in the world because I have a million questions and the questions that were asked and not they were all great questions, but the answers we got were just like, I'm left with more questions now.

And that shouldn't happen. I hope this works. I really truly hope it works. I hope it works. And I know some of my colleagues did a reaction on the pod network yesterday. and one of the questions that was asked was like, I'm kind of like paraphrasing this, but five years from now, what's more likely that the PFL Bellator separate entity thing is a success or that the PFL is out of business? And I'm with my crew here. I think it's more likely PFL is out of business in five years than this working for five years.

But we'll see what happens. We will see. I just don't know how the pay-per-view model is going to work. I don't know how many pay-per-views that Jake Paul fight is going to sell for PFL. If they get Nate, maybe it does okay. But, like, I mean, if you do Francis versus Deonté Wilder in a mixed rules fight, like, that's going to do fine. But who the fuck's going to buy Francis versus Ryan Bader?

Who's going to buy that? I don't know. I was left with so much more confusion with all of this. and I was left with a million more questions about this. And I don't know how it's going to work. And there's other thoughts that I have to, but I want to hear from you guys and see what you all have to say about it.

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Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners find fabulous for less. Toke, go ahead. I mean, okay, so I'm going to keep it kind of short with the Don Davis interview because that was insane. He had one point said that the championship on Friday is going to be like six Super Bowls in a row. It's just found that fucking hilarious. Oh, my God.

It was so insane. Oh, my God. I had so much fun watching that interview. And, I mean, he must be paying Fight Matrix the same thing, the same kind of money that one is paying Nielsen for those fake stats that he gets. But anyways, so I think this might be good for the short term, but I do not see PFL coming anywhere close to the UFC, especially when you consider,

you have spread it out over five different entities. You have Bellator, then you have Belator versus PFL, then you have PFL Europe, then you have PFLMMMMD, which is coming in, what was it, 2025? And I mean, you just keep spreading yourself thinner, a thinner and thinner and the brand just doesn't go that way there's the reason that you know UFC collects all its events on one entity like on one brand because you're going to be spread out so weirdly and it's just not going to work oh so and i mean your first goal fine your first goal

should be to be the second biggest company in uh mMA fine your second goal should be be profitable, be a profitable company. Come the fuck on. You know that's the, that should be number two. It's that simple. So I think he has this, he has a side set on UFC, which is the wrong target. It just is. The right target is to be profitable. So that's my whole thing. And I have a short thing about the UFC event this weekend anyway, because I actually wanted to ask you, submission will be higher on your submission of the year lists. Is it Jo Anderson Brito going against the trash talk and ninja choking? Is it Chase Hooper with the insane scramblage or is it the neck crank to end all neck cranks?

Thank you. Man, they're all good. Brito is probably the more like memorable one because of like just how JSP talked a little trash. And then Brito was like, okay, bet. and then Ninja choked him. The oral bywomen is pretty nasty too. Those are all good.

Those are all good. Yeah. Look, PFL ain't going to be profitable for a really long time. I mean, it's going to be a couple of years before they turn to profit, if they turn a profit. And just go back to the fight metrics thing. Shout out to John Nash, who did the math for us on Twitter yesterday. Quote, going through the fight metrics rankings of the men's band-of-weight through heavyweight divisions. The seven divisions both competed.

The PFL has 25% of the top 25, 16% of the top 10, zero number one fighters. The UFC has 62% of the top 25, 83% of the top 10, and 100% of the number one fighters. There you go. There you go. Oh, you're up. Good morning, Mike. let's talk about the real implications of this deal I'm really pissed that that wasn't the last time

we have to shit through Maro Ronaldo and Big John call a fight card I freaking cannot stand those two guys but I actually believe like I don't know during that Don Davis interview I kind of got a kick out of him coming from like the whole entrepreneurship side of it but what do you think of like the way Dan Hardy put it about how he's got like some Willie Wonka in him I feel like you kind of need a guy like that to out promote Dana.

But that's all I got. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, look, I think Don's a character. And I think if anyone is going to go in front of the media and talk about the promotion, it's probably him. But he has to like be scripted or you have to like, you have to give him guidelines. first of all, he will never outpromote Dana. And Dana doesn't even try.

Like Dana is not even trying anymore. Like Dana, all Dana's focus is on PowerSlapp right now. And by the way, Dana is promoting PowerSlapp better than Don Davis is promoting the PFL right now. And that's like ridiculous to say. But it's true. It's just true. So I think Don kind of has to.

to be that phase. Now, do you bring Koker in and be sort of the Bellator face on a PFL product? I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure. And you mentioned Morrow and Big John and stuff. I don't know if they're going to be a part of this or not. I don't know. I think they're going to use their own people.

Because, again, these aren't, they work as part of Bellator, but they're more for the network side. And I think they'd probably rather use their own talent or bring in some fresh faces. Because that's going to be a big part of this production is it has to look different. It has to sound different. Everything about it has to be different. Every single thing about it. Morrow is an all-time great.

A lot of people shit on John McCarthy. I actually think John's gotten a lot better. My buddy, Josh Thompson, I actually think he's gotten a lot better. And a lot of that has to do with bringing in Amanda Gera, who I think is, really help Josh just kind of be himself a little bit more. But you got to, I think you have to take that whole thing down to the screws, honestly. Honestly, I think it's going to have a different feel. All of it has to feel different.

Now, if they want to bring Amanda in to run desk, I'm cool with that. I'm not saying they should just fire everybody and not bring Josh and John along. I actually like the Amanda Josh pairing. but everything has to be different. Ring announcer has to be different. Everything has to be different. This is reimagined, quote-unquote, Bellator. It's got to seem different.

It can't seem the same because what they were doing didn't work. It did not work. So you have to do something different. So I don't know if we're going to see the same talent. I don't think we will. Maybe we will. I would be stunned if we do. It would also depend on where they end up from a distribution perspective.

I mean, they're clearly not going to end up with like the CBS or anything. I don't think. But, yeah, I think it's going to look a lot different and sound a lot different. But we'll see. We shall see. We're going to bring Viking in in a moment. And we'll keep this cooking. Again, getting the wheel of doom from Viking, but hopefully we can connect it.

There we go. Good, Viking. I'm good man how are you I'm fine I'm fine now I just want to tell you if you know someone who has got a vacancy for janitor you can recommend the George Thompson's name to that guy I just want you to do that for just for just Thompson and the other thing I want to ask about the Jan Jones so what if I know it's not possible in this life, but if John Jones fights Thomas Spinole and wins that fight, do you think we know where Tom Aspinall could watch that stain of picogram?

And the other thing I want to tell you that two or three morning back, heck of a morning's back, I said that it helped me to sleep. I just said that because, you know, I feel so much better after listening to a heck of a morning. I even listen to heck of a morning in the gym instead of songs.

So that was I meant. So thanks a lot. Oh, no, I know. Hey, what did you say about Thompson real quick? What do you want me to say about him? If you know someone who has got a job vacancy for janitor, you can recommend Josh Thompson's name to that guy. Oh, all right. All right. Thanks, Viking. I appreciate it.

No, I'm not going to sit here. Look, I like Josh. I like him. I like the guy. He said some really dumb. He said one really dumb thing, and I blasted him for it. And that's it. Um, that's that's that. I'm done with that whole situation. Josh has not said anything like that again, which I think is pretty smart on his part. Um, I think Josh learned from his mistake.

And that's that. Um, I like Josh. And I even said like heading into this year, like, I'm not going to, I'm going to make it a goal to, you know, not be that guy. And like I've said many times. And even when I interviewed Amanda Gera earlier this year, I even said, like, look, I have not been the easiest guy on Josh. But I thought he had a pretty damn good year from a broadcasting perspective.

I did. I think Amanda really helped Josh. Loosened them up, a little more loose, laid back. And it's so important as a host to make your co-host feel that way. because Amanda's not an MMA expert, and she'll be the first one to tell you that. It's her job to set Josh up and let Josh do his thing. And she does it better than maybe anybody, honestly.

Like anyone who has had that role has been incredible. Like, she's been so good. She is so, she was such a great hire. And she made, Josh got a lot better because of her. So, no, I'm not going to shit on Josh. And I'm not going to shit on John either. I like John too. John and I've had some good talks. John helped me out with a project that was super important in the space earlier this year.

And he was a very important voice for that piece. And him and I talked a little bit off air about some of this stuff. And we kind of both just came to a thing. Like, look, we all say dumb things. Maybe I've said some things that I wish I didn't say, vice versa. and we move on. We move on. So, yeah, I wish Josh the best.

I wish John the best. And we'll see what happens with them. I'm sure there's a promotion out there that would look at them and give them a shot. Why hell not? John is one of the most important people when it comes to understanding the rules of MMA.

He fucking wrote them. He wrote the original ones. and Josh is a fucking former world champion. Like he provides value. Whether you like them or not, they provide value. You just got to find the right roles for him. And when you do, they'll do the damn thing. They'll come through.

John Jones, Tom Aspinall, I don't know. I need to see this fight. I have to see it. I don't think we're going to get it. But I would love to see it. Let's keep the campaign alive. But yeah. Let's keep going here.

Let's go to Justin with the Y. Justin with the Y, hello. Hello. So first on PFL and Bellator, Jed said it best. I don't care because Bellator is basically valued at nothing right now. But what I wanted to get to was my Jay Ellis suggestion for Tony Ferguson. I've given up on it, but I've got a new one, okay? Clay Gwita is about to have his 59th fight.

Tony is about to have his 38th fight if you count as three. the Ultimate Fighter Fights. They fought on the same tough finale for Tough 13. Tony fought on the main event. Clay fought on the co-main. I think they should fight at UFC 300, and it'll be like the opener to the pay-per-view, whatever you want to do it.

It'll be 99 fights between them. What do you think? Sure. I mean, I don't know. It's fine. We have to remember, folks. I'll remember. There is a real,

world where Tony Ferguson beats Patty, there is a world that that is a possibility. Maybe it happens. Maybe it doesn't. But I think we can't have to wait and see. And I think honestly, if Tony loses the Patty, it's probably it. For him, Dana will probably go to the press cards to be like, yeah, it's kind of probably time to have that conversation. So, but yeah, if they do, look, if they do Tony versus Clay, I'll watch it.

That's fine. But again, there's a world we live in where Tony beats Patty. And then it's a whole different conversation. That would be so 2023 if Tony just goes out and obliterates Patty. It would just be one of the funniest things of all time. Brian, go ahead. Hey, Mike. How you doing?

Good. I just had a question when it came to the Banimate and Middleweight divisions. What do you personally think is going to happen? or maybe from what you've heard from inside people, because that's 100% the two most interesting champions, in my opinion, when it comes to Bellator. Namcoff is great, but I think the Fador thing is going to always keep them from the UFC. So I just feel like those two guys are so interesting,

and there's so much unknown. I think Jet even tweeted that or retweeted something about how it's going to be the same divisions for PFL next year. So I just kind of want to get your take on those two divisions and those two guys. Thanks, Mike. I don't know what they're going to do. I mean, I assume Patchy and Nemcoff or Ablin, excuse me, they'll fight on the Bellator International Champion Series and they'll just have to find somebody for them to fight.

I would assume they will be like UFC castoffs of some kind. Or it's just going to be like, because the most interesting fights, realistically for both of them right now are just like other Bellator guys. You know what I mean? And it's like, Patsy re-signed with Bellator in July. And I know Patsy just did an interview with our own David Martin.

And he's making a shitload of money with this new deal. So if it's about just cashing in, baby, then get that money. But I honestly, like from a legacy standpoint, from what is actually available to Patsy Mix right now, there is not one interesting fight.

There's not one. There's not one where I'm like, oh, man, Patchy versus this dude is super compelling. Because we got one, and it was Pettus, and Patchy just killed him. Like, just ran them.

Just freaking ran them over. So, like, and then for Eblen, I'm just like, what do we do? So I think they just, maybe there's a UFC free agent that they can sign for either guy,

and that's kind of where they're at. But, yeah, they're just, they're kind of just stuck at this point. And maybe that's okay. Maybe the contracts that have been absorbed, at least this is what Patchy's saying, they're making some damn good money.

So that's good. That's good. But I think a lot of people would like to see Patchy in the UFC to see what he could do. And I think a lot of people would like see Johnny Ebblin in the UFC to see what he could do. Nemcoff as well. Like Nemcoff versus like either Kasagini

or whoever he's fighting, I forget who it is off top of my head. Like, Nemcoff is going to run them. I mean, Nemcoff versus Francis is going to be super interesting because he says he wants to go up to heavyweight. Like, that's an interesting fight. I don't think it's anything they go to right away because no one really knows who Nemcoff is

outside of the hardcore fans. But, yeah, that's all going to be interesting. I don't know what they're going to do with Bannamweight. Certainly don't know what they're going to do with Middleway right now, but I assume they'll both fight on the bell. or series, whatever that is next year. And they'll probably get two fights. And they'll probably fight

fighters who are probably once in the UFC. Don't know who they are, but that's probably it's going to end up happening. Jay Mack, go ahead. Hey, Mike, can you hear me? Yep, I got you. Can you hear me? Yes.

I hear you, Jay McHap. Can you hear me, Mike? Yes. I can't hear you. Speak. I guess I'll have to. try this again. I hear you. I heard you well. Let's go to Abswalia. Good, Absalom. How are you doing? Yeah, hi. So I'm really interested to see what the PFL does now going on

in 2024 with this deal. I'm just really wondering, do you reckon we'll see some of the biggest I guess stars or the best champions of Battle Tour remain with the PFO or could we see them possibly join the UFC? I'm really curious to see that. And I don't know if you saw this, but Chels Solland, he uploaded a video the other day that was talking a little bit about. Sorry, he was debating with the lawyer who went extensively into the CTE issue that happens within fighters and there was a really interesting article.

I had a look at it, and I'm glad we're having discussion like this to the MA community because it's a really good lesson and important topic to help not only the fighters unsend, but the fans unsend what fighters go through and how we can prevent these type of issues because, you know, we see in sports like NFL, it really fucks people long term. So I'm, you know, I think much going to happen, but it's always nice to see this at least a little bit of a stepping stone happening. That's all I have been. have a great day.

Yeah, I mean, it's a conversation we need to have. And I think it's one that's going to be a lot more prevalent as the years go by. I mean, just look at the NFL. It took a long time for that really to be a thing. And now it's all over the place. So I don't know what will change. I really don't know. But it's conversations we need to have.

That's for sure. As far as the Bellator champions go, there, They're with PFL. Part of this deal was PFL acquired all of the intellectual property of Bellator, which includes all of the contracts. So they are contractually obligated to compete for the PFL as of now. That's part of the sale.

That's the only reason you buy Bellator right now. You don't buy it for the name. You buy it for the fighters. So without the fighters, like this deal makes absolutely no sense. sense to the PFL. So yeah, the world that we would love to live in where the champions have a have an out clause and they could go to the UFC, all of that, it's not there. It's not there. Now, Don did say we're bringing over 210 guys, all of them have a shot. Some of them may not fit the mold. Not all of them are going to last. Could we get to a point where both sides

agree like this is in the spot for me, including the champions? Sure, it's possible. But until they fight out their contracts, they aren't going to the UFC unless something gets worked up behind the scenes. But yeah, yeah, it's unfortunate, but that's who we're at right now. No changes. Four Corn Sports.

Hey, Mike. So what's the call? Brendan Allen, I know you said that he didn't want him to call out for a title shot. And I know on Otno, he said you wanted him to fight Marvin Vittori. but uh what's it do you see what's the cool is Brendan Allen you know fighting within the first quarter of the year

that I know he said he wanted to he wants to challenge for a title at by 2024 I'm thinking that he's going to need to have at least you know three fights in 2024 in order to make that happen um and I just feels like stylistically as he gets higher and higher up into the the middleweight um division I feel like he might have himself some challenges. I don't see him beating Sean Strickland. I feel like Sean Strickland has improved since their last meeting.

And the only person I could see that he would have a really good matchup with is Drickus. I don't know if it's outlandish, my statement. But I like Brandon Allen, but I just think that, you know, stylistically, I think that the champ has improved a lot better. I don't see him being a champion right now unless, like, I feel like he, you know, grows. Because I forgot who said it. I think it was Chris Curtis said it, that Paul Craig is just a slower target for middleweights, because he's not fast enough to keep a middle weight. He's in that tweener type of a role, and that's what I noticed when I saw him fight,

Brendan Allen. And obviously, he's too small to fight that heavyweight. So I don't know. Do you think that Brendan Allen gets the opportunity of fighting for a title by next year? All right, thanks, Mike. Probably not. I think he said after the fight that he's not fighting until April. There's just too many guys in front of him.

And he's already fought Strickland, and Strickland went out there and just outdogged him and finished him. He's on a good run. I don't know. I think he's got a long way to go. Skill-wise, I think he's an interesting test for everybody. but I don't know if he checks off all the boxes where the U.S. he looks at him and they're like, oh, we got to push him to the top. I think he's going to be one of those guys.

I think he's going to be kind of not exactly the same, but I think he's going to be like the middleweight version of Ballal where he's going to keep getting good wins and he's going to have a case to get a title shot, but he's just not going to get it because there's just bigger names than him. So I kind of think that's where he's at. he's got to beat some ranked dudes like some legit ranked dudes

that's why I like the Vittori if he goes out there does that to Marvin Vittori finishes the guy that can't be finished like that dude that's impressive you go out there and finish Marvin Vittori like you're a win away because Marvin

it's like impossible to finish that guy but I don't know if he gets a cost of fight I don't think he gets Shimae I just think it's gonna be a long road for him And he's good. I mean, he's only 27, so he's only going to get better. And he certainly is getting better.

I just don't know if he checks off, like, all the boxes with the UFC has to, like, rush him into a title shot. But what the opponents he's getting, he's just straight running him over. And he's doing everything he needs to do. But this is not, this is not Bellator. It's not the PFL. It's up to the matchmakers, and it's up to the star power. They get to sell $80 pay-per-view.

I just don't know. Brendan's the guy right now. I like Brennan a lot. And I actually think he's a pretty interesting cat. But yeah, I think he's got a lays to go. I would say, does he fight for the title in 2024? Outside of a short-notice replacement-type deal, I would say no. We'll go to Mikey, then we'll go to Ani, and then we got to go. Mikey, go ahead.

Hey, what's going on, guys? Morning. How's everybody doing? Yeah, I just, again, it's way too early to prognosticate everything that's going to happen with Beltor and PFL, but like just from the little things I've read and I've heard, I'm just, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You know, like, why are they convoluting the wheel? It took, it took, that company has been merged for five minutes and it's already a mess to me.

And I'm just like, what is happening? And then are they, didn't PFL say they're going to segregate the women? They're going to do with PFLW. How is that going to affect cyborg? And then the rule sets, I'm like, okay, so they're not. Not, again, they're going to try and host shows. I give that a year before they merge the roster. No way they're going to keep doing that for like two years.

A year max. But I just, I don't know, man. Like I said, I want these promotions to do well, independent of the UFC, contrary to popular belief, but just like, why it always seems like these people want to shoot themselves in foot. You know what I mean? But anyways, that'll be all for me. Happy holidays, guys. Yes. This whole mentality that we're the co-leader is ridiculous.

it's just ridiculous you're not you're so far away from it it's not even funny it's not even funny it's craziness and I understand the one thing that makes PFL so compelling

is that it's different than the UFC like that's what makes it interesting but now you're bringing in Bellator to do what the UFC is doing I don't get it. I understand why they have to do it this year because they have to uphold their end of the bargain for distributors and perhaps some sponsors as well

from a business end. But yeah, there's just, there's no way that's feasible. There's just no way. Unless they could get some, like, juicy ass television rights deal for Bellator. I just don't know how this is successful. I had no friggin' idea. But going international with all these cards is really smart.

That's exactly what they should be doing. All these cards should be in Europe. Every freaking one of them. All of them. But we'll see. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. What? Sounds like Ojo time.

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mike do you like the universal championship more or the world heavyweight championship because there is a segue there is a segue so which title do you like universal or world heavyweight wait? Universal, because it's the only one that really is recognized, at least in my eyes. But, I mean, there's others, but it's all about the universal one. Yes. Now, here's the thing. With the Bellator and PFL, like, them merging, but not really.

So I think they're going to have, like, 20 champions, man. Like with Bellator and PFL, like them having their own champions. When I first read that press release and I saw that they'd be champion versus champion, I thought it would be to unify the belts or like come up with this, you know, like an undisputed champion of sorts. But now what are they going to do next? Are they going to have Bellator and PFL drafts? Are they treating this like MMA with brands, like something like WWE?

That's what it seems like to me, like with the whole Bellator versus PFL, like, treating Bellator and PFL as two brands in a global MMA umbrella, whatever they're calling it. I mean, I see what they're trying to do. They're trying to, you know, give us a different product. But I just feel like there's loads of moving parts and a lot of things might be lost in translation. I think they must just focus on making the use of all the money they have. have and all they need is, you know, to convey a message to all the fighters in the UFC that we pay fighters here really well. If they do that, I think in the long run, Belator and

PFL together, they might attract a lot of underutilized UFC talents. You're telling me that Bilal Mohammed will not get paid in BFL or Bellator if he gets a lot of signed by them eventually. Or you can also say that fighters from PFL and Bellator might jump to the UFC. But that's what I feel. And quickly and drastically switching gears, like I always do. We're not lose for Dominic Reyes. I think a fight that we have to see is a fight between two light heavyweights who took John

Jones to the limit. You know what I mean? So win or lose, Dominic Reyes must fight Alexander Gustafson. I'm not sure what's going on with Alexander Gustafson. I think he was matched up against OSP for a while, but is OSP with UFC anymore? I don't think so. But we need to get that fight, Mike. And I think such name-valued fights, such legacy fights, you know, we need to see them at UFC 300.

What do you think about both of these, WWMMA and Dominic Reyes versus Alexander Gustafson? Thank you for your time. And gargrew some salt water while you're at it. It'll improve your voice. Thanks, buddy. I think I'd say, like, Dominic Grace versus Anthony Smith, and then I would have been like, all right.

But Anthony Smith just might find himself in a title fight, which is insane to even say right now. I don't know, man. Like, I honestly, I just, I don't know. I don't know how this is all going to play out. Because, again, they don't have. Here's another question. Who is the lightweight champion of Bellator right now?

Like, is it Usman? Is it Usman or Magamemadam? What's going to happen with this lightweight Grand Prix? Are they going to do Usman versus Shabli? Like, what are we going to do here? If I'm Usman, if I'm, especially if I'm Shabli, Usman is suspended, so I don't know what's going to happen there. He made a mistake and he's paying for it.

But like, if you're shabbly right now who is basically like about to fight for a million dollars, does PFL honor that? I'd be fucking livid if I'm shabbly right now. Like absolutely livid. Like what happens there? I have no idea. Just so many questions. So many questions.

look there's going to be some value there but like again like it's it's a option but it's not like we don't have multiple options anymore for some of these free agents we like none and then like with the whole like do I do the season or do I do the one-offs like I guess it's up to each fighter and then like if they do the Bellator versus PFL champions event in February and like a PFL guy wins. Like, I guess he can decide what he wants to do. Like, it's just a mess. It's so confusing. Who the, I don't know. I don't know. I just want some realistic views on this. That's all. Go ahead, King Cat. Hey, Michael, I'll keep it quick. So I just wanted to say that I agree with your monologue at the

beginning. And I really think that Peshko Cyborg is a much more entertaining fight than Harrison just with their style. And even if Harrison Beats, who is the Aspen Lad, I still think that Larissa Presheco versus Chris Cyborg is much more enticing. And then the other thing I wanted to say was one thing that you didn't talk about your monologue is Don Davis talked about like the production being the same. And I was like, oh my God, like please no, the pacing for PFL is horrible. So I'm hoping, and the production for Bellator wasn't the best, but it was better than PFL, in my opinion.

So I hope that they get that figured out because with adding that many more fighters to their roster to, I literally was like, oh, my God, this is going to be like, you know, a 12-hour fight card. So I hope they get that figured out. And then lastly, I was just walking my dog and I was thinking about how you had rescued that one dog. What happened to that dog? Oh, great. Thank you. We found the owner. We brought them to our vet to see if there's a chip. They located the chip. Located the owner. Owner came, picked him up. And oddly enough, like two days later, I was doing a workout and the woman showed up at the gym again and said that the dog got out again. I was not aware of this. I contacted her the next day. And she said that the dog, they have like a church group at their house and two of the ladies in the church group are allergic to dogs. So they have to put her in the bedroom, put the dog in their bedroom during the church group, which is only like an hour or so.

They put the food and water in there. But so the dog just basically scratched at the window where the air conditioner unit was and just like clawed his way to the air conditioner, like loosened up the window. And then he just jumped out the window because he wanted to get out of the room. and I'm like, okay, I think I dodged a bullet because I don't want to be chasing this dog around. But dog's fine, in a good home. All good. Yeah, again, I don't know.

I don't know what's going to happen. As far as production goes, Don't even said, like, they're going to tweak the production. I don't know if it's going to be, like, the same as PFL. But I understand where he's coming from. Like, watching a Bellator event, it's just like, it's dark and dreary. and the cage is so terrible.

And it's just like, it's not aesthetically pleasing for the viewer to watch a Bellator event because of the darkness and the cage and all of it. So hopefully they fix the cage. I'm not, like, please don't do the Bellator smart cage. I will lose my fucking mind. But like, if you want to do like a non-round circular cage, then I'm cool with that.

I'm cool with that. change the cage. We don't need stats. I don't give a shit how many miles an hour. Yaroslav Amosov's right hand is. I don't care. I don't care. But yeah, if you want to get rid of the round cage, great.

Just brighten it up a little bit. Brighten it up. And I think that will be helpful. But yes, I do agree with you. I cannot live in a world where you have 30 events that are paced the way that a regular PFL event is. I can't do it. I can't do it.

Mike. Jay Mack, go ahead. Yeah, hey, Mike. Just wondering if you could explain something to me, how does a PFL afford to do all of this? Are they backed by the Saudis? Saudis backing them with unlimited amount of money or something. I mean, they already have millions of dollars

they give away to fighters every quarter, right? And they have to pay them money to fight into fights. So how are they making any money? And is there a way to find out what their financials look like? Thanks, Mike. I'd love to hear your answer on this. Well, two things. One, they're not making money.

I believe Don even said that on his interview at the M.A. hour, like, they're losing money. They're losing money. The Francis deal especially. Like, they're not making money right now. They're not profitable. There's only one organization in the sport that is profitable and has been for the last, however many years, it's the UFC. They are profitable and they are incredibly profitable.

Nobody else's. Bellator wasn't profitable. But again, if you listen to the structure of the deal, it's a no-brainer for PFL. They didn't have to spend any money on it. They just gave away a minority stake of the company. That's it. And they acquired the entire roster. So this is a, this is, financially it's a great deal for PFL because your roster is a million times better than it was before. You have, like I know Don Davis's math is horrendous, but you do have guys that can, you have a case for at least three or four dudes that are the best in the world at the weight class.

Patchy Mix, you have a case. Johnny Ebbling, you have a case. Nemcoff, you have a case. Like, you have a case with all three of those guys. Francis, four. Like, you've got cases right now. But they didn't. It's not like they, I know the reports, and we talked about this at the beginning, that, oh, they were bought for $300 to $500 million. Well, first of all, that is absolutely just not true. That was never discussed.

I saw someone report $100 million. That was also never discussed. Cash buy was never discussed with this from all the conversations I had. This is all like a, quote-unquote, stock deal from Jump Street. And if Paramount didn't agree to that, then PFL had been like, all right, well, bye. see you later so yeah from a business standpoint

for their roster this is a great business move because they didn't spend a dime on it they just gave away a small stake of the company

like a very small stake so yeah they could afford to make that move and yeah they're losing money they're not profitable it's going to take

a long time for them to be profitable they need Francis to work out they need Jake Paul to work out They need to sell pay-per-views. They need to put on interesting fights. They need big TV deals.

They need all of the stuff to happen. They need it all. But yeah, they ain't profitable. They got a lot of investment money, but they ain't profitable. It's going to be a long time until they are. So what's important, and I said this after the Francis deal, what's important is that they find a way to stay in business. And they also just have to have a realistic attitude about this.

Again, this whole, we're not number two. We're the co-leader with the UFC. It's just not true. It's just not true. It's crazy. All right, we'll take two more. Thaddeus, go ahead. Dattias, unmute yourself.

Okay. Hey, Mike, you got me? I got you. I just want to say go birds, go sixers first off. I miss most of the show, but did you guys get into talking about any of the matchups they could do in Europe, like crossover type stuff, Loch Nain, Patricchi, Panato, Mix, if he goes up.

Because, I mean, I think they got to, like you said, pound the European market. And, yeah, man, like, I kind of lost my, oh, I was going to say that, when is PFL going to push their fighters more than their own brand? Like, I feel like most of their tweets when they get behind people is fighting for a chance to make a million dollars and not their accomplishment. It's an interesting point. Again, that's, and that's just a huge problem.

They have no stars, even with this Bellator deal. I mean, they got Francis. Francis is a star. Kayla could be a star. you kind of got a feel for a Larissa Procheco a little bit because I don't think she's getting like if Kayla Harrison lays waste to Aspen Ladd on Friday, which she probably will. They're going to book,

they're going to make that fight. And then like, who's Larissa going to fight? Like, Larissa deserves it. She beat Kayla. She has a win. She beat her.

She's kept, like, that loss kept her out for a year. And she's going to win the championship second year in a row. she's probably like if she loses on Friday that'll be shocking like doesn't she deserve the right to fight chris cyborg i do understand where like honestly here's what i think pfl should do this is what i think they should do they should do excuse me they should do the cyborg lea mccourt fight in dublin they should go ahead and just do that and they should do kela harrison versus lewis of pacheco

winner gets cyborg. Like, just do that. Like, I'm cool with that. At least give Loresa an opportunity at that fight. And plus, like, Larissa versus Kayla in a rematch, I think it's the four-time bill of fought. But still, like, that's an interesting fight. The fact that they didn't go back to that is shocking to me.

But at least give Loresa an opportunity and, like, get multiple bites of the apple. But yes, it sounds like the Bellator cars are going to be international, which is super smart. I would like to see most of them in Europe. Do Cyborg versus Liam McCord? Who gives a fuck?

Like, just do it in Dublin. That's cool. I'm cool with that. And then do Kayla versus LaRessa 4 and whoever wins gets Cyborg? Let's put some states on this. Let's do something interesting here. But, I mean, again, I just, I don't know. I don't know.

It's just the problem when you don't have stars. Like, they push Kayla a little bit, but, like, they just don't have any stars. It's crazy. Even like their biggest star, there's not one interesting thing for him in MMA right now. Like, realistically, with what can happen, there is nobody interesting for Francis and God.

No one. That people are like, yeah, I will spend $50 on that. Nobody. And the UFC is not going to co-promote the John Jones fight. This whole thing, this whole thing with Don and, all that. Like, why would he, like, I don't agree with a lot of what Dana says,

as you guys know. But he's 1,000% correct. Like, the way he presents his case about not making Francis and John in the UFC is wrong. But him saying, like, why would we do this with PFL? It's 1,000% right. They don't need to make that fight. They will make all this money,

whether they make that fight or not. And they don't need to cope. promote with PFL in order to make a whole bunch of money. Here's one interesting part of this deal. That is really interesting to me. Because right now, everything Dawn is saying, this whole co-leader bullshit, it's so false. However, the timing of this deal is really fascinating because we are on the precipice of a giant, lawsuit against the UFC, against Zufa, that could be billions of dollars in losses for the

UFC, like billions with a B. If this goes to trial and the UFC loses, like they could be losing upwards of like $5 billion. And that is ginormous. Like that, that's huge. That's huge. but honestly if that happens, this will probably affect the PFL as well in some ways. But still, like, right place, right time is interesting here. But other than that, like, I don't know. It's just crazy. Last caller, pint-sized slasher.

Go ahead. Hey, how's it going, Mike? Good, how are you, man? Pretty good, pretty good. So I said a few things. First thing, I wanted to get your thoughts on Jason Jackson's performance. Honestly, like that one was probably one of the best performances, especially like a championship fight performance that I've seen in quite a while

where you got to see a fighter, you know, either all cylinders were just firing for him that night or his team at Kilclic just came up with the best game plan and they knew everything that Amosov was going to bring because they seemed to have every answer, like all the correct answers, he completely shut him down and it sucks like when you get a performance like that you got all these dudes that are like oh amazon got fraud checked or whatever oh his heart his head and was in was in ukraine and not in the fight like yeah the guy went through a lot going back to

ukraine and fighting for his country but the guy came he was in shape he was ready and then you know he had the fights with uh i forgot his name before that too you know so like i i i i refuse to hear any like oh whatever he wasn't in the fight like he was in the fight man just give jason jason his hours, that guy was just on it. And it was honestly really awesome to watch. And I would love to see a guy like Jason Jackson in the UFC. But considering that PFL is kind of, they're just kind of taken over, Bellator, not really letting them, you know, not releasing anybody, not letting them go.

They're making them fight out their contracts and all that stuff. We probably won't see that. I mean, at least not for now. But man, just action that fight, I was like, man, I would love to see Jason Jackson fight guys like Leon Edwards. and in all those guys in the UFC, just based off that performance. And then other than that, I want to know, is there any way we could ever see Luke Thomas on BTL?

I know he's a big fish, he's a busy guy. You guys get BCs here and there, but, man, I would love to see Luke Thomas and Jed Michoud go head-to-head because I feel like those guys would clash. You might actually get an actual fight on BtL if you bring Luke on just because of like, Luke is such a very stoic, like, you know, guy. It's going to be hilarious. Yeah, well, John Anna guy looks at some BTL.

I know, John, like, another guy, big, busy guy, you know, but those are too old legacy. And then this far as his whole absorption of Bellator from the PFL goes, it sounds like Don Davis is just a, he sounds like just way too ambitious. It just seems like he's weighing over his head. And I don't like the whole thing where he's seemingly just focused on, being a competitor than the UFC, you know, instead of just like working on their products, like the focus should be like, how can we make the PFL badass instead of how can we rival the UFC?

Like, you're not going to rival the biggest fish bringing in like billions a year, dude. It's just not going to work. And that sucks that UFC holds all the monopoly, but, you know, hopefully that lawsuit will change some things. I mean, maybe, but they should really just focus on like how can we bring value to the market rather than trying to rival the UFC because it's like, you know, You know, others have tried and failed, and it's just really stupid. And then you have, you know, people just focusing on, like, how you're kind of a quiet just from trying to do that way. You know, instead of just focusing on your own product.

But, yeah, that's it for me. Thanks, man. You fucking nailed it with that last point. Did you even, like, just look at the announcement. Look at it. It was all about, look at us compared to the UFC now, which is so dumb. Like, all of it was just like, hey, look at our roster. compared to the UFC

instead of like, this is a great day for MMA and not involving the UFC. Like, completely agree with you. And that's what worries me too because you ain't the UFC.

You're not. You're so far away, it's not even funny. It's laughable. This co-leader thing is laughable. Like, I literally giggle when I see it. It's crazy this.

Luke Thomas has been on BTL before. It was this year. We had Luke on. I will try. try to get him on again. But we got Luke on. And it was awesome. It was everything you hoped it would be.

But we will definitely try to get Luke back. He was great. Him and Jed got after it. It was super fun and compelling. And I laughed a lot during that episode. And then last thing before we wrap here, Jason Jackson, dude, what a performance. What a performance. It's like, unfortunately, like the things that come

out of this is exactly what you're saying. The things that, like, drive me crazy about the sport. Oh, yeah. Amosov wasn't as good as we thought he was. Oh, 27 and oh, it was padded. Come on, man. Come on. It's just not true.

Amosov, arguably, there are people saying Amosov might be the best Walter weight in the world. Jason Jackson had a great game plan. And I got to tell you, I don't know if I've ever been, like there are a few instances where I was happier for a fighter to get over the hump. Because Jason has been there so many times, so close. to big spots, so close to getting UFC calls, falling short, going on the contender series, freak injuries, all these things.

Can he win the big one? Always the question about a guy like Jason Jackson. Jason is a guy I've been covering well before he got into Bellator. And to see him have that kind of a performance and to see him get that title wrapped around his waist was so frigging cool, so frigging cool. I remember interviewing him before he was fighting for like Titan FC. and just hearing his story and being like, damn, this dude, this dude's a problem. And then just coming up short.

And then seeing him going out there and icing him as off the way that he did was incredible. And from like all the fighters that I talked to on and off the record who train at Kilcliffe who have ever trained at Kilcliff, when you talk to them about what it's like training there and what they've gotten taken from that, it's always like, dude, Jason Jackson is like the dude. Jason Jackson is the most unselfish guy I've ever been in the gym with. Like, that's the kind of stuff you hear.

Ask Gilba Burns about Jason Jackson. He'll go on and on about him. Anybody. Ian Gary talked glowingly about Jason Jackson. Mickey Gall, glowingly, like literally anybody who is trained in Kilcliffe will tell you about Jason Jackson and how unselfish he is.

and how overutilized he has become in that gym. It's incredible. It's incredible. And the CM have a moment like that and the final Bellator show. Like he ended Bellator as we know it with a stunning upset. I mean, good for that guy.

Good for that guy. And I hope he makes a ton of money. And I hope he gets big fights. Maybe he gets to the UFC one day. Maybe he doesn't. But none of that even matters at this point. Because the dude went out there

and just beat Yaroslav Amosov, finished him. And the last thing we'll remember about the old iteration of Bellator from a competitive standpoint is one of the good guys of the sport getting that belt wrapped around his waist. It was frigging cool to see.

Good for that guy. Well, thank you all very much. I got to go. You guys are the best. I think, I don't know. We're trying to figure out maybe we'll do a show Friday. I don't know, probably not.

We're definitely not going to do a show Thursday, obviously with the big Thanksgiving. So this might be the only show of the week. I'm not really sure. BTL, we're actually going to record BTL a little bit later on today. Jed and I, we're just going to go back and forth and do the damn thing. We're obviously not going to have a live show on Thursday because, again, it's Thanksgiving. But we are going to get you something there, at least for the podcast network for your Thanksgiving drive on Thursday. and we will be covering the PFL championship event on Friday.

I think it's just going to be Damon and I, maybe Jed Hobson as well, but we'll be all over that because I don't think you want to spend $50 on it. But we'll tell you what happens. So don't worry about that. But thank you all very much. Appreciate you. Have a great rest of your Tuesday. And as always, have a heck of a morning, everybody.