MMA Fighting - HOAM | Is UFC 'Champ-Champ' Talk Getting Too Watered Down?

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

Alex Pereira became a two-division UFC champion this past Saturday when he finished Jiri Prochazka in the UFC 295 main event, but he accomplished that feat after leaving the middleweight division behind for good to take on a new challenge. With many current fighters talking about possibly moving up weight classes to challenge for titles being in the news, has the conversation become too watered down? On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck discusses why the idea of "champ-champ" status has lost its luster, but how it can become interesting again with two different additions to the conversation. Additionally, listener topics include Bellator 301 likely being the promotion's final event under the current regime, what matchups between Bellator 301 fighters and current UFC competitors would be interesting, Aljamain Sterling teasing working on a matchup with Max Holloway in his featherweight debut, and more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.

November 17, 2023, and it is indeed a heck of a morning. We are live on the M.A. Fighting Twitter spaces. You can hear the show start to finish. Once we're done here on the M.A. Fighting Podcasting Network, What's going on, everybody? I am Mike Keck. Hope you're all having a wonderful Friday. We got Combat Sports coming up this weekend.

We got Bellator 3-01, possibly the final Bellator event ever under this regime. Actually, that probably will be the final Bellator event under this regime. Maybe the final Bellator event ever in general. And it's a damn good card. So I hope you guys will check it out, at least for the fighters' sake. And then we have UFC Vegas 82 tomorrow. not a great card, not even really a very good card. Interesting main event that should be fun, but other than that, not a lot to love.

But one thing I do love, early star time, 2 p.m. Eastern for the prelims. And that is always good. That is always a good thing. So we can talk about those things. We can talk about whatever you want. It is a free for all Friday. And as we typically do on Fridays, if you are someone who, is not on the show that often or are new,

you guys get first dibs. So if you have not asked a question on the show or someone doesn't ask a lot of questions on the show, you guys get to jump to the front of the line. That's how we're going to roll here. So Henry, you will begin things. What's up? How are you doing?

Heck of a morning. What's up, man? Yeah, man. I just want to start seeing this as a free-for-all Friday. I want to start on the Read Season card that was announced for December because yesterday, I just got done this into yesterday's episode and I feel like Toke kind of undersold the card of it, to be honest. I'm like a former boxing hardcore fan that kind of fell out of love with the sport

and I balanced between being a hardcore MMA and a hardcore boxing fan, but I went all the way with MMA. And like this card is crazy. If I put it into these terms, like Wilder and Joshua are seeing them up there, even though they're not fight each other. These are super competitive fights. Like Valene is a really hard fight for Joshua. And the Dubois fight is, as Pope mentioned,

that's not a gimmie. Like the Miller and Dubois fight is super interesting. So, yeah. Also, Frank Warren and Eddie Hearn being up there is like, is a real crazy thing. Because here, these two, it's like, it's super infamous. Like, these two guys despise each other.

They won't do business going back to Eddie Hearn's dad. So they have like IFL TV interviews. and obviously boxing is probably a bit bigger than MMA over here. So it kind of infiltrates into popular culture as much. So that was a huge moment here. But yeah, now that these Saudis are effectively like running combat sports, almost feels like they're just going to clean up with boxing and just make all the fights there.

But also heading back to the link with MMA with the class action lawsuit coming up and stuff, do you feel like these guys could, seeing as combat sports has effectively run like a Wild West? and the structure of MMA is going to completely change if this lawsuit happens. Do you feel like these guys are just going to, I don't know, they could effectively run all of combat sports after this lawsuit, but yeah, that's all I've got. Maybe, I don't know.

I don't know. Like, look, I'm sure some of the, I'm sure the boxing event will do well. I'm sure it'll draw a lot of intrigue, but it's just so weird to see Wilder and Joshua fighting on the same card, but not fighting each other. Like, what are we doing here? That's like if they had John Jones fight Steepay, but then had Francis and Ganu fight anti-Delijah on the same card. Like, what are we doing?

What are we doing? It's, that's what that is. So I get where tokes coming from. Yes, Frank Warren and Eddie Hearn being on the same promotion and on the same stage and sharing the build of the car. That is probably the most interesting thing about this, if we're being honest. We'll see how it plays out. It's just kind of like a, you're just waving this shiny toy in front of us, but no one can get it. We have to split the toy in half.

Like, nobody wants to do that. So I think people will be, like true boxing fans will be into it. And that's really it. I just don't know. I just don't know. The timing of it isn't great with it being two days before Christmas. It's just weird in a lot of real. in a lot of respects.

As far as the suit goes, I mean, honestly, I don't know what's going to happen. I really don't. But this could be the biggest story in the history of the sport when it's all said and done. It seems like the appeals of the UFC and Zufa and all that aren't really working. There's all sorts of things going on. I know the plaintiffs, if you will, have basically put out that they're going to market the shit out of this, that this lawsuit is going on and that is moving forward

and they're going to let everybody know about it. And I'm super curious to see how the Zufa side slash the UFC side reacts to all this. Now, just knowing what I know about sports in these types of situations,

I would be stunned if the UFC doesn't try to settle and I'm sure they will. And the plaintiff side might look at the number that the UFC would settle with and say, wow, that's a lot of money. But if they settle, then nothing will change, if that makes sense. The UFC and Zufa and all of them will lose a bunch of money, but no change will be made.

So it's going to be real interesting once you roll into 2024, if the plaintiff side will accept an offer or if there is just no number high enough for them not to move forward. Because if they want to invoke actual change with this lawsuit, they got to go the full way. They have to go the full way. And we're going to see some things that MMA fans are not going to like.

They're going to see the darker side of the sport. The darker side that I've seen, that AK has seen, the stuff that we don't really talk about, but we know is there, you're going to see a lot of that stuff. And it's going to be super interesting. But if this is about invoking actual change and not just about getting paid, then that's where things are going to be real interesting.

If they go the whole way with this, then we can possibly invoke change. But I don't know. I honestly don't know what's going to happen. It's going to be the story of 2024, I think, because I don't think this is going to get settled. Because what's the point of this? If your whole message is we want the split. to change, you can't change it by settling. You have to go the full way with it. So it's going to be super, super fascinating to see how it plays out. I don't know what the aftermath of it's going to be.

The current UFC structure is just printing money. They make so much money. It's not even funny. So yeah, will it be a blip? Sure. Will it cripple the UFC forever? Probably not. and just think it's kind of like some of the NFL the past NFL lawsuits it's not like the UFC if the fighters go through and they win and it's a floppy trillion dollars it's not like the UFC has to write a check then and there for a floppy a trillion dollars like they could drag this payment out

forever if they want to they could drag it out over like 30 years more than likely that's what the NFL did with some of the past players that sued them the payouts are just going to go forever just going to continuously go at a small amount. So it's going to be a fascinating time, my friends. It's going to be a fascinating time. It could be the biggest story in the history of the sport. It really could be. Holding hands,

throwing fists. Go ahead. What's up, A.K. I hope everything's going well with you guys. So I had a good morning. This morning, I had two and a half hours of Jitsu, and I'm having my dunk in right now. So my question to you on Free For All Fridays is if you were forced to give up, either CrossFit or are Dunkin' Donuts, which one would it be? Oh my God, dude. Oh, man. It's probably Duncan, but God, that would hurt my soul.

I mean, I would just figure out a way to, like, get my ice coffee in. I mean, can I buy can I buy Duncan coffee at the grocery store? Or do I have to, like, give that up altogether? I got to say, Evan, I don't hate, like, McDonald's ice coffee. I don't like eat McDonald's very often, maybe a couple times a year.

But I do party with the ice coffee. So, I mean, look, I drink outside of like fall, like I'm that dude who will have like a pumpkin everything when it's time. I won't go crazy with it. Like I'll have a pumpkin ice coffee like once or twice. But mostly it's just like black ice coffee. But it's just, I don't know. It's the Duncan thing. It reminds me of being still in Massachusetts.

But I can't stop the cross-exam. it right now. I'm like too into it. And if I lost that, like, I don't know. So I probably have to give up the Duncan. And that hurts me. That's a crazy-ass question right there. How dare you? No, I appreciate it, though. I am actually drinking to Duncan as you speak. Eric, go ahead. Hey, Mike. Can't give a morning. So I saw Leon and Jamal Hill's comments about moving up. And I can't confirm this, but I'm pretty sure every single male champion has now spoken, or at least attempted to move up. And kind of along those lines, I want to get your thoughts on what you think is most likely in the near future.

We see one of the new champs rattle off five, six title defenses, or we finally see someone get triple champ status. Thanks, Mike. Can I just tell you that I hate all of this? I hate it. I hate this so much. Like, why are we doing this right now? why because Alex Pereira is too big for middleweight and he moved up to a 5th like that dude is a giant the fact that he cut to 185 to begin with is just it's

ridiculous so because Alex won a second bell not everybody wants to do it like it's so dumb like it's so no I don't care is there any clamoring at all for Leon Edwards to fight for the middleweight title is there any clamoring at all? Is there any clamoring at all? for Jamal Hill to fight for the heavyweight title? No. Zero. Not one person has mentioned this, except them out of nowhere.

And shame on the interviewers. I'm just, I mean, I'm not really serious about this, but why does everybody have to ask about moving up in weight classes? Can't, can't we all just stay where we're at? Can we all just stay where we're at? It is so much more interesting to me to see Jamal Hill fight Alex Pereira. if he wins the light heavyweight title, I want to see Jamal Hill fight.

Like, I want to see him fight Anka Laiap and Johnny Walker and Rackich and Beholyche and all of these guys. Like, that's what I want to see. I want to say. No one has cleaned out their divisions. Nobody has. Not one champion has cleaned out their division.

Not one. So why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? There's no clamoring for it. at all. Ah, it drives me insane. I thought we were past all of this after Islam bolted Volcanovsky.

All right, now we're back to some normalcy. Leon has not, Leon's defended his title against one guy, and it was the guy he beat. Shafcott's coming. All these guys are coming. Gary's coming. All of these guys are coming.

And for Jamal Hill, he's got like seven dudes to beat before he can start talking about moving up. And I want to see Jamal Hill versus Alex Pereer. If you can, if you're like Mike, you got to see five fights in 2024. Jamal Hill versus Alex Pereer is one of those five fights.

I have to see it. I have to see it. Because I have to know if Jamal Hill is really good at fighting. I think he's good at fighting. But is he really, really good? Is he the guy who beat Glover? Or is he the guy who lost a point? Paul Craig. I don't know. I don't know. I saw so much in that Glover that I want to see more.

And then he gets hurt. And if he beats Pereira, I want to see what this guy could do his champ. That's what I want to see. I don't want to see him go and fight Tom ass at all. I have no interest in that. None. Absolutely none. All this two division champ shit. It just drives me crazy. It's like not even interesting anymore. Like Pereira is just crazy because he did it so quickly. And it's not like, I mean, he's just not a middleweight anymore. He at least left the division forever. He's not fighting at middleweight again. He's done there. So the only way I want to see, like if Leon Edwards says, hey, I'm, I will fight Strickland or DDP, but I am vacating the welterweight title to do so. I am now a middleweight. I'm not a welterweight anymore. Then fine. Go.

do it. I don't care. But the days I am so tired of holding up these divisions, stop with the bullshit. If you want to go fight for the middleweight title, fan fucking-tastic, but vacate the welterweight title and let these guys fight for it, and let's not slow down these divisions. Enough is enough. Enough is enough. Let's go to Joe. I'm going to keep you fired up. Heck of a morning to you. I don't think Christmas said I'm at work can I go back and forth with the volume? But I actually think AP could be the first three division champion. He's the got the size.

I know Tom looked great. I'm not trying to come out the gate and say AP could beat Tom or dog Tom out. I'm just saying by size, by skill, by how quickly he's run to the top. AP, in my opinion, has the potential to be the first three division champion. And for me, I agree. I'm tired of the champ champ shit, but if someone could pull it off in the third division, I would be excited to see that.

Just keeping you fired up, Mike. No, and look, I'm not even mad at Pereira for this. And if he decides to do that, like, great. But just vacate the other belt and go do it. And look, Pereira is in a spot where he can do it. He doesn't, we're not going to have Alex Pereira in this sport for much longer. He's 36. He's going to be 37 in July.

what do we have like two maybe three more years of him tops so if he goes out and beats i don't know who he's going to fight next he's probably not fighting jamal hill next he's probably going to fight somebody else whether they do the israel fight or they do

like if johnny walker beats angolaif maybe they do that i would not shock me to see them do an anthony smith fight just to keep him busy. And then if he beats Jamal Hill, then he still got other, like he still got other guys to fight. So win a couple of defenses. And if he's like, all right, look, I got, I only got like two fights left in me.

I'll go and do the heavyweight thing. But you guys can have this title, then fine. Fine. But not everybody can do this. Not everybody is Alex Perey right now. And it wouldn't be interesting to see him take a shot at it. But just do it the right way. If he just goes and beats Izzy and he,

He's like, nah, I'm done. I'm not fighting Jamal Hill. Then I'm just like, eh, I don't really want to see it. Now, I would comfortably pick Tom Aspinall to beat Alex Pereira right now. No disrespect. Tom's just way bigger and just his skill set is just going to be a really tough thing for Alex to deal with overall. Not saying Alex couldn't win, but I would be very confident picking Tom Aspinall to win that fight. But who the hell knows?

Alex Pereer has done ridiculous things. And yeah, you're probably right. There's one guy who can go up and win a third title. It's probably him. Because I'm trying to think of who could do it now. And it's probably not anybody. The only one I think could, maybe Zhang Wei could do it. I think Zhang Wei could do it.

Like if she wants to go to 25 and like, her and Alexa Grasso would be super fun. And she could probably beat Alexa Grasso on her, like, best night. but then like if she just said all right I'm going to take six months and bulk up even more and go to 135 like she's a little shorter but like if Raquel Pennington wins the Bannamway title would you pick Raquel Pennington to beat

Zhang Wei Lee? I don't know be interesting but I don't really see anybody else out there that could do it right now and I honestly hope we don't get to see it because I don't want to see this I want to see people just continuously

defend their titles. I want to see if someone, I want to see if there is a current rostered UFC fighter right now who can run 10 title defenses. That's what I want to see. Right now, in their respective division, I know John has a lot of title defenses, but John ain't going to fight 10 more times. Like, I know that. But I want to see if I want to see if Vol can get to 10.

I want to see if Sean O'Malley can get to 10. I want to see if Pantosian get to 10. I want to see if any of these fighters can get to 10. because I don't know if anybody can. In this day and age with the evolution of the sport, I don't know if anybody can. And that to me is way more impressive than somebody just going up and fighting for a second belt right now.

It just is. It's way more impressive to me. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights,

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At these prices, could I find something for everyone at Winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners find fabulous for less. VBMMA, go ahead. Hi, man, thanks for letting me speak. I was thinking, you know, the same thing. I just don't like this champ champ. I mean, kind of did it a few years ago.

I think it was cool for the first time that D.C. did it, but now it's getting out of hand, you know. One championship thing I want to do is Islam versus Leon personally. If Islam fights Oliver and beats Olivera,

I think Islam could be good option, you know, because he only beat Arman, who I think he's going to be the next contender at 55. I mean, he beat Arman. I think he probably should fight Gage, maybe after that, but you know after olivera i won't mind seeing islam versus leon edwards you know uh and also a question

for bellator like what you think about um this belator and bf i think you think it's a good for the sport or you think it's probably gonna damage sports because in my opinion more promotions we have is better you know um tbd on that i don't know i don't know i just honestly i just it I do not have a lot of faith in PFL right now. I really don't. Like, I would love to have faith in them. I just don't have faith in them. They have not shown me enough where I'm like, yeah, let's go.

They signed Francis and Francis had a competitive fight with Tyson Fury. Like, and that had nothing to do with PFL. What Francis did against Tyson had nothing to do with PFL, nothing. Outside of them just saying, like, yeah, go box. And PFL gets to somewhat reap the benefits from that. that's the best thing they've done all year was allow francis to go box Tyson fury like that's the most success they've had this year and if they absorb bellator like that's great they get the roster and to me getting the roster is worth it but how many of those guys are like big stars

like how many of those fighters can be a superstar i don't know maybe a j mckee if you actually market him correctly. I just don't know if they have like a ton of stars. They need, like, it's good to have good fighters. And if they do like some sort of like Bellator versus PFL season or something like that in 2020, 24, like Bellator is going to rinse PFL. They are going to rinse PFL. It will not even be competitive.

There will probably not be one PFL fighter in, in the playoffs or in the finals. It's going to be all Bellator fighters because their roster is just infinite. times better than PFL's. And it's one thing to build a roster, but you need stars. And I don't know if Bellator has any stars. MVP,

but he's kind of like a free agent anyways. McKee. They have like excellent fighters, but I don't know if they have stars. And that's the thing. PFL can get all the good fighters they want, but they have to build somebody into a star.

someone has to take the baton and run with it. I just don't know if there's anybody currently on the Bellator roster that can do that. So this is going to be super interesting to me. And how are they going to move forward? Like you can't do Bellator versus PFL more than once. And even then, like, is it just like season format or you do like one big event? And if you do one big event, like who's going to buy it? Who is going to buy it?

I don't know. So I have so many questions about all of this. Like, is Johnny Eblen going to go through a season? Why would he do that? He can just leave and go to the UFC or go somewhere else. Like, which one of these fighters should be like, yeah, I want to do that. Do they have to do that? Can they enter free agency?

Like, I have so many questions about all this. It's not even funny. It's not even funny. And how are they going to pay all these guys? I don't know. I honestly have no clue. I have no clue how this is going to work. And the whole, the Islam thing, look, again, Islam has plenty of guys to fight.

Because even his road to the belt, while it's not his fault, Bobby Green was probably his best win. Dan Hooker was probably his best win. He didn't fight like any of the top guys to get there. And again, not his fault because he was booked against some big names and the fights fell apart. So he just fought the dudes that he had to fight. But he fights Oliver again. He's got Gachy. he's never fought Porre,

which I don't know if Porre gets there. If Darius beats Sarukian, I still want to see that fight. There's Gamrot, who is the backup? Fiziv's coming. Sarukian's coming.

Benoit Santanya is coming. This dude has his next four years of fights locked and loaded. So again, if he wants to challenge himself at 170, go right ahead. but drop the lightweight belt.

Just say, look, I've done everything I want. I have one more thing I want to do. I want to win a second belt. Here you guys go. This is the best division in the sport. I'm not going to hold it up. I'm vacating the belt. Then I'm fine with it.

I get no issue with it. But if he's sitting there representing the lightweight division in a two division title fight champion versus champion, I have no interest in it. Absolutely none. None whatsoever. He's got, he's got a million guys to fight.

There will never be a shortage of challengers at lightweight. It's the best division in the sport. And there's plenty of guys coming. Big names, up-and-coming names. He's got lots of guys to fight. So, but if he wants to do it, fine. Go right ahead. But just don't be the lightweight champion anymore.

And then I'm in. Tom, go ahead. Kimus Maximus. A couple of comments, my little heckler, and then a question at the end, Mike. First and foremost, Leon and Aspinal appraisals there.

Quite harsh on the Brits there, Mikey Boy. Quite harsh on the Brits. Hey, Mike, leave those Brits alone. We're doing fine. But you are right, but Leon was touching on and your frustration, and I get it too.

I fully believed sustained dominance is better than one-off double champ champ-champ fights when you're catching someone at the right weight at the right time. It's more of a, in England,

we've called like a more of an FAA cup win rather than a sustained league win. So I do think the sustained dominance in the division, particularly these days, Mike, when all divisions are incredibly stacked. You mentioned Zhang Wei that one of my favorite fighters in all martial arts in all divisions. Yes, I can see me coming with her

in terms of a triple champ because it's a natural progression of her style, body weight and age. I think she does have the kind of body mechanics to make the leap up naturally, step by step, division by division. But yeah, sustained dominance is what we're all about. You touched on me, and that's what I want to back to in the reason why you were

a little bit frustrated before. Let's not forget, the fight that he's talking about taking on the winner of Sean Strickland and Drichlis duplice, my question to you, my Keck, is this. very, very two anomalous fighters in terms of style. With that fight, Mike, heck, do we have the potential to see one of the most visually unique, artistic fights of all time? Or do we have the chance of seeing two drunk men fighting at a barbecue? Where in that spectrum, Mike, do you think this fight can go in terms of visual aesthetics? I mean, the fencing answer is somewhere in the middle,

but I actually think we're leaning more towards the backyard barbecue. That fight is going to be absolutely nuts. It's going to be insane. And I have no idea what's going to happen. Because by all metrics, Jerkis 2 Plusy is the better fighter. But Sean Strickland is not your typical MMA fighter. He's just the dude doesn't stop. You can't slow him down.

You can't put them away unless you're Alex Pereira. the dude just keeps coming. And I honestly don't know what's going to happen. I honestly don't know what's going to happen. And I don't know what the more interesting thing is. Because the winners, if DDP wins, it's going to be super interesting from the Izzy perspective because now Izzy has to chase him.

But if Strickland wins, Sean Strickland versus Hamzat Shamaif is a really interesting fight now. But I do think it's going to be more, it's going to be more like Glover-Yeri than Sarukian scamrod, if that makes sense. It'll be less technical, but super fun. And I'm here for it. I'm so here for that fight.

I can't fucking wait for that one. And again, the whole thing, the last thing I'll say about the two-division thing, because I'm sure somebody's going to say something else about it just to keep me fired up, and that's fine. I just don't feel like there's a lot of risk in doing it. at this point. Because if you lose, you're just like, eh, no big. I'll just go back down and defend my title. Like, at least put some risk on it.

That's why I want, like, these guys to vacate. Like, if you're going to take this risk, then take the risk. Go all in on it. Then, like, I respected a little bit more at this point. Like when Connor did it, it just, like, the timing was perfect for it. It was like the perfect storm of things happened. And it made sense. when Daniel Cormier did it.

Like coming out of UFC 220 in Boston, when D.C. just ran Vulcan Ozedamere and Stepe beat Francis and Ghanu. Like everyone just kind of knew, like the only path that really made sense for either guy that's actually interesting at this point, especially with Kane not active as a heavyweight, was to put these two guys together.

Like that made sense. But just on a whim being like, yeah, you know, it would be cool? I'm just going to go up and try to fight for the second belt. Like, that's great. But there's just no risk to it anymore. I don't know. Like, I'm not opposed to anybody going up a wait and trying to do great things.

Under two circumstances. One, there's no other way to go. Like, the timing of the first Volcanovsky-Machach. Fight was actually perfect. Like, it was perfect timing. Because at that moment, Volk had nobody to fight. they did the interim title fight to kind of like declare like

all right we're going to get a number one guy Machachev didn't really have anybody to fight at the moment that like was the top notch contender so like from a timing perspective that one made sense but I didn't the fight ended up playing out great but outside of just like perfect timing

like it doesn't work it's not interesting it just isn't I don't know I'm more impressed by multiple defenses Got a black belt. Black belt. Belts.

Three, two, one. All right. Didn't go through. Let's go to Cole. Okay, Cole. Hi, Mike. Can you hear me? Yep, I got you.

All right, I got to ask you about the biggest sports story in the last 24 hours. They're not sports, but I'm not talking about Snoop Dog, giving up the smoke or anything. but Clarissa Shields or not Clarissa, Clarissa Thompson, my bad. Have you seen that clip of her saying that she's made up some sideline reports during the games? Yeah, just what your take on that. I think people, in my opinion, are overreacting. I don't really think that that's the exact same thing as journalism, really. I don't know.

I think it's more of an indictment on like the broadcast. Like, why is the broadcast throwing it to her when she doesn't? have anything to say but yeah what do you think about the clearest of thompson i mean it's kind of tough for me to say because like i've not been in her position but at least like i don't know like my first thought was if there's nothing there like it's honestly more interesting to me if you throw it to a sideline reporter and they say as opposed to saying yeah i was i spoke to bill bellichick and he said you know stay the course, run fast, put forth your best effort, and we need to convert on third down. Like you just kind of throw that out there, which is typical stuff.

And you would watch that as a football fan and be like, yeah, okay. But to me, it's more interesting to be like, yeah, try to talk to Bill Belichick. He was pissed. And he just blew me off. He was so angry about how the Patriots played in the first app. He had nothing to say to me. The look in his eyes, said it all. The man wasn't happy.

Back to you, Jim. Like, that to me is, like, way more fascinating than just the cheesy generic stuff. Now, I'm also not a sideline reporter. And something tells me she is not the only one to do this. But one of the comments I kept seeing when other reporters were like, oh, she should be fired or this is unacceptable and all that was like, yeah, you should probably like watch the interview and kind of understand where she's coming from. because I guess the context from the interview was like, I used to do this and this is why. And she had said it before in other interviews. So it's not like it's it's not like she broke news there.

It's something she had said in the past. And she was just like, yeah, I'll just say it here again. Like I used to do this. And it was just like with it. I don't know. I understand why people are upset about it. But I also understand why some people are like, go watch the interview and like actually get the context. of it. Would I do that? Probably not. But again, I'm not in her shoes. So I'm not going to judge her on

that. And like I said before, I'd be stunned if she's the only one that has ever done it that is currently on a broadcast. So yeah, that was like the story of the day yesterday on social media. J-MAC, go ahead. J-Mack, where are you at? Jump on out and try again. Go ahead. Hey, Mike. A heck of a morning. I just had a quick question for you. Did you, I'm not sure if you had a chance to watch the Shakur-Stevison fight yesterday,

but it was absolutely terrible. I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. And, yeah, that's all I had for today. Thank you. No, I did not. I totally forgot it was happening. I actually thought it was today and not yesterday. but based on everything I saw on social media, boy, am I glad I didn't for multiple reasons.

One, took forever for the fight to start. And then two, it was one of the worst fights ever from what I understand. I saw the CompuBox stats that only like 33 power punches were landed in the entire fight. Like that's stinky. Imagine like staying up on a Thursday night on the East Coast waiting for Shakur Stevenson to fight. And then that's what you get. I'm so glad I didn't know it was yesterday because I probably would have watched it. And I'm so glad I didn't, based on everything that I saw.

So I guess there's something to be said for lack of promotion, because you saved me a whole bunch of time. Isaac, go ahead. Isaac, not going through. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea.

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I do feel like, kind of like you said, that they have something to fall back on. I think that that's one of the big incentives because I feel like a lot of times, even when they're champion, if they aren't defending it multiple times, they aren't really making money and there's a lot more incentive for them

to come back and still make the same amount that they would be if they're defending a belt. Then the second thing, Al Jermaine Sterling was talking about fighting Calvin Cater at Featherweight and then also kind of hinted at fighting Max. Who would you prefer that he fights during that debut? And I don't want any Boston bias on this. It's Max. I've been saying it since on to the next one after UFC 292.

AK can attest to this. On the live show after UFC 292, I said Al Jermaine Sterling should be going all in on Max Holloway. There is no other fight that makes any sense for Al Jermaine Sterling to take at 145, then Max Holloway. Now, if Max is just like, nah, I'm not interested, then you know, fall back on a cater fight. Like, that's a fun fight. Like, that's a good challenge for Al Jail because cater can wrestle. Cater's a big physical featherweight and he can crack. So that would actually be a fun fight to watch.

If it's not Holloway, I actually like that fight as like a good entry point into the division. But it just took him three months to realize, yeah, maybe I should go fight this Max Holloway guy. Max is unequivocally the only option for him for multiple reasons. Because the UFC is not going to do him any favors. They throw him in there with Cater. Do you think if he beat Cater that they're just going to give him a title shot? Fuck, no. They're going to make him do it again.

They're going to make him fight somebody else. Then maybe fight Max after that in order to get a title. shot. And if somehow Ilya Tepore becomes a new champion, I think that road becomes even longer for Al Jermaine Sterling. So Aljo is 1,000% doing this the right way.

Max Holloway is absolutely the fight. If he wants to fight for the belt, you got to beat Max. And I think that's a fight that would be a big fight. Easy fight night headliner on the road. Easy fight night main event at the apex.

Easy event for a pay-per-view. There's no other fight that makes sense for Al Jemaine Sterling at 145. Why would he go up there and fight and just go up each divisional rung as the former champion? And by the way, speaking of this champ champ crap, the only way Al Jamein Sterling will ever, ever share the Octagon with Sean O'Malley in a competitive stance and ever fight Sean O'Malley again is if he becomes the featherweight champion of the world. And Sean's like, yeah, I want to go and try to win a second belt. Otherwise, Aljo ain't getting, Aljo ain't getting the title shot at 135.

He's not getting it. He's not. Go for Max. Go get it. You might lose the fight, but at least you took a shot at it. And at least you left Bantam weight. You gave it up. You're a featherweight now.

going after the top dog. That's not the champion right now. That's the fight. That's the fight. Cater would be interesting. I'd watch the hell out of it, but that's not the one for him. The best business decision for him right now is do fight Max Holloway. So it took you long enough, but at least he did it.

And I hope they make that fight for him. Jay Mack, go ahead. Hey, Mike, can you hear me? Yeah, I got that. Cool. So in the respect of Bellator this weekend, I'd like to do a little fantasy matchmaking. I think that Bellator is going to fold after this upcoming weekend, and I would like you to come up with five UFC fighters, and you'd like to see matched up with five Bellator fighters on this card, like really good matchups.

And I'll let you answer that off. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it. Just from this card, let's see. Let's pull it up real quick. I mean, I would like to see MSOV versus Leon Edwards. That'd be a good one. God, patchy mix is so good.

I don't know if I want to see him fight O'Malley, though, because I don't think that fights all that interesting. AJ McKee versus Raphael Fiziv. I like that one. Wouldn't happen anytime soon, but I like that. Patchy Mix against Piotr Yom. like that'd be like a good entry point fight for him I'd like to see that

I'd like to see Alexander Shabli versus Isl Makhachev at some point that'd be a super good fight I think Shabli is like is criminally underrated let's see do we have anything anybody let me see what else we got here how about

I do think the UFC is going to see something in Samiko in Naba and I think they should see something in her. How about we do Samiko Inaba versus I was going to say Nadi Ice, but I can't do that.

Joanne Wood. Let's do that. Good little entry point fight for Samiko Anaba. Let's go that route. I mean, there's other ways we can go. If we go like through the whole Belator roster, there's like more intriguing fights right there.

But dude, AJ McKee versus Raphael Fizib would be fucking madness. Amosov versus Leon Edwards would be a super interesting fight. Patchy makes it against any bantamate would be an interesting fight. Shobbly is a player in the UFC's lightweight division right now. And I think Anab is a fighter that the UFC would take a shot on. Honestly, I think they would. I think she's got something that the UFC can market and they could build her into some kind of a star.

So, yeah. It's going to be interesting to see how these organizations, look at these fighters once this pfl thing it goes through if it goes through at this point cv go ahead yo mike happy heck of a morning happy friday um just a couple quick things for me um since it's free for all friday um first off um 295 last week was a like a blazing fast uh main card um all first round finishes for all the five fights so that got me thinking like um regardless of you're doing a watch party or not you're doing a watch party or not or you're just watching the event with some family and friends,

what would be the ideal length of a main card? Because as much as I like first round finishes, I was thinking I would like the first three fights, have like a quick finish. Maybe the co-main event to have a quick finish as well, but ideally I want the night to end off with the main event being a five-round war. Just because I feel like last week's card was amazing,

but I kind of felt like we kind of got shortchanged by the main event. And second thing, what do you think about? I was listening to Bill Simmons podcast earlier. I was saying about how Netflix would like, obviously it's the number one streaming giant right now. Do you think the next big move for the UFC is to like partner up with Netflix just to get their rights? I don't know, like streaming is kind of like the norm now. days and um fight pass is kind of garbage if you ask me like um like i actually like bought it a

couple of times tried it for a month but then i got tired of it just because like how horrible like the user interfaces but um just your thoughts on that thanks i would be stunned if they do that i mean they got they do have their own streaming service which is i i still like fight pass because i like watching some of the regional shows on there But I mean they have ESPN plus like a lot of their libraries on ESPN plus They got a lot of different things on there as well. So I don't know. I don't think Netflix is the spot for them. I think they would honestly Oh, maybe they Dana's been teasing like this relaunch of fight fight pass. It's gonna be the greatest thing of all time. It's not I don't really love their new programming. It's basically just shows you can get on YouTube

that you can just watch on FightPass. Like, I'm not going to watch Dean Thomas and the Pink Soup dude on UFC Fight Pass. No disrespect, it's just not something I'm going to go to Fight Pass for. I go to Fight Pass to watch either old fights or, like, regional cards. Like, Annenfloreen, I think, is on Fight Pass,

if memory serves it correctly. Like, I'm not going to go to Fight Pass to watch Anacon Florian. I'll just go on YouTube to watch Aniken Florian, or I'll listen to it in my car. Just like Brennan Fitzgerald Show. Same thing. I'm not going to FightPass to watch those shows,

but I will just watch them on the umpteen thousand other ways you could watch it. Like that's not what I watch FightPass for. So no, I think the UFC will kind of keep their own, you know, ESPN Plus, who knows? It'll be interesting to see like where their new TV deal is. Like, do they stay with ESPN? Do they go a different route? I'm not really sure. or maybe Netflix wants to get into like the live sports world and host UFC.

But then like how are they going to be pay-per-views? I just think there's a lot to it. Do they convert to like the WWE model where their TV rights deal is just so massive that they could just basically give the pay-per-views away? I don't know. Like WW on Peacock, like you pay what, five bucks a month and you can get all the all the pro wrestling people. pay-per-views like for free just basically as part of the package like I don't think the UFC will ever do that but this new TV rights deal is it's gonna be interesting when it actually goes through but I don't think they're gonna end up on Netflix

we'll take abzoya and four-corner sports and then we're gonna get out of yeah heck-all morning mark um firstly I just want to briefly touch on that double chamb discussion you were talking about earlier um you know one thing I really wish fighters did do was, as you said, have multiple tile defenses. It seems that that seems to be a very lost art. And I kind of also think many fighters think they can just be like Colin McGregor, Israel, Adisania. There's a lot of revisionist history in the MMA where they forget with Ardissania's case.

He didn't have any contenders about the time. And he obliterated the Shera Costa, which earned him a chance to get a title shot against Jan Bolshevich. just became the champion. And plus, you know, Kannon near fumbled his chance of being the number of contender, losing to Rob. And, you know, another thing is

to touch on the double champ thing. I think a big reason why, in my opinion, I'm seeing a lot of fighters do this is possibly because they realize the status and the money that can come with it. Like, it builds their brand to a whole other level. And I think they have

this shift possibly in terms of greatness level that it might make their, a case for being a goat much more stronger, which in my opinion is definitely not true, because the whole double champ thing in my opinion has lost this charm and touch. Like, I genuinely think it would be much more impressive to seeing a fighter at least have five-tile defenses, let's say, like, if they were featherweight, then they move up to lightweight or bantan way and have at least three to seven-tile defenses.

That is fucking impressive. And especially if your level of competition were some of the best fight. of that time or even all-time grades. I really hope we get to see that one day. And there is one fighter. At least I believe he could have done this. If I'm talking potential, why that's Hamzaa, Mark, because Hamza, if you remember correctly, Mike,

when he first came onto the UFC scene, he was blowing the sport out with his incredible performances and whatnot. And, you know, if you remember all the fans were saying, oh, his potential is if he can beat the Sheraul-Col-Bi, He could beat the shit out Burns and, you know, obviously, Usman, when he was still the champion,

well, this guy's definitely got the chance to be a double champ. So he's the only fight in my opinion that I've actually been interested in see become a double champ just because of the potential matchups he could have, you know, in both the Walterway Midway Division.

The only other person I've been interested seeing a super fight was Al Jermalding if he had beat Sean O'Malley and got to fight Volcanowski because I genuinely believe he had earned that position do so. I mean, you know, he beat some of the best benson weights and, you know, overall made a mark for himself in that division. Yeah.

Well, that's all I have, have a great day. Look, here's the thing. I don't think the double champ status really improves anything at this point. It really doesn't. It's just a thing now because it's not like the first and the second or even the third anymore. And I will say this. One, if you're just not going to vacate the belt, if you're not going to say like, hey, I'm just going to move up and do it. I think it would be super cool and super interesting.

If contractually, the UFC says fine, you can go do this. But if you lose, you're stripped of the belt. Like, you lose the title. So it's actually like your title is, even though the winner of this fight, like let's just say Leon goes up to 185 and fight Sean Strickland. Like Sean Strickland doesn't become the welterweight champion if Sean wins, but you're not the welterweight champion anymore. You're done.

that's interesting to me. I'll play that game. That raises the stakes. Otherwise, there shouldn't be a lot of house money up. There shouldn't be a lot of fights. I'm like, yeah,

he's playing with house money right now. Because that's what a lot of these like double champ fights are for the ones moving up and wait. They're house money fights because they lose. They're just like, eh,

who gives a fuck? I just moved down and defend my featherweight title. And then Volk just got the chance to move back up again. And he got, He got rinsed by Makachev, but now he gets to go back down and fight Iliate Tupori. Now, that might not be like a great consolation prize because Tupori is a fucking monster,

but still like there's no risk really from the opposite end. Yeah, maybe your legacy gets stung a little bit, but not a lot because Volk took the fight on 12 days notice. So there's always like that lingering thing, but that's my caveat. If you want to move up a division and fight for a second belt, like if Jamal Hill wins the light heavyweight title and says, I ain't fighting anybody unless it's Tom Aspinall. Great. But if you lose the Tom Aspinall, you lose the light heavyweight title. End of discussion. That's it. And you don't get to fight for it again. Just not right away. The next two guys fight, you win another fight. Then maybe you get another title shot. But you have to be

able to risk something in order to do this. You have to. And being like, well, he took a shot and came up short is not enough for me to make those ideas interesting. It just isn't. We've just seen it too many, too many times. Get it full correspondence. All right, Mike, so a couple things. One, I know that the Shanghai card

is now officially off. It's no longer Shanghai's for Vegas. Are they changing the time slots because I remember that the prelones were going to be at 4 a.m. and the main card at 7 a.m. Did you hear anything of a time team slot? And then I got another

two more things. I've been hearing rumblings as for the U.S. going back to Mexico in February. I don't know if those are accurate or not. And lastly, I know Michael Morales is fighting in the co-meat event against Jake Matthews. Where do you see his ceiling going? I know he's undefeated. I know that Jake Matthews, he looked at against Androfielo, and I know a lot of people are expecting that Morales to run through Matthews, but how do you see the fight, you know, going about and how do you see you know morales's a future going with a win on saturday um morales is a good prospect i like him this is a good step up i think he probably runs over jake matthews and on inwards and upwards the mexico thing i've not heard um i mean if

they're doing the spear in september for mexican independence day i feel like they're going to basically put all their resources into that. Now, did they go to Mexico at some point? Maybe. I've heard nothing about that, but who the hell knows at this point? And then as far as the Vegas, the Shanghai to Vegas, I have no idea. I have no idea. From what I understand, like, this is obviously, it'd be like the road to the UFC finals and all that stuff, and I don't think that's happening anymore. They may shift everything over there, but it just seems like an awful lot for those fighters to just be like, hey, we're supposed to fight in China, but now we have to go to Vegas to do it. On like less of a month's notice, it just seems like a lot to get done. So, yeah, I have no idea how it's

going to work. I do know that the song you don't Chris Gutierrez main event is going to remain the main event. That I do know. And I think like some of the other fights that were on there are going to remain. But I'm not so sure about like the Roast of UFC finals or anything like that or the start time to this point. All right, four on sniper, take us home. Maybe. Perhaps. Wheel of Doom. All right, it's not going through.

All right, Joe, you get the last word. Go ahead. Hey, go ahead. I'm not going to stir it back up. I just wanted to point out, because you've been on the champ champ this whole time. Daniel Cormaying and Connor McGregor were not real champ champs. They were not two division champs. Connor McGregor was stripped.

As soon as his fight, started at 155 and Daniel Cormeier relinquished to that title the day before 232 was I think it was 232 he became the double champ so the the UFC did have that policy that was the things that you're saying about how they were supposed to give it up and you got to put it all in the line that was the policy until the UFC created a paper division for Chris Cyborg and Amanda Noon's knocked her out and there was no reason to strip her of the 145 bomb. title. So it was that way. And I 100% agree with you. And again, I'm just stoking your flames a little bit today because you've been on some rants. But that is how it was and that is how

it should be. So Connor was stripped of the featherweight title two weeks after he won the lightweight title. Reading it right now. Conner's reign is the first man to hold UFC titles in two different weight classes simultaneously lasted all of 14 days. McGregor's fight company bosses trumpeted his historic accomplishment to the masses after he defeated Eddie Alvarez by Sekiro to add the lightweight title to the featherweight belt he had since late 2015. Two weeks later,

the UFC unceremoniously stripped the 28-year-old Irishman of the 145-pound title announcing the move on Fox Sports One during a low-profile fight night event broadcasting from Melbourne and Australia. So, Connor was an actual two-division champion. And I believe,

let me see here. Two landscapers are outside. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure. Let me look up the DC thing just for context. Hang on one second. Yeah, he relinquished the belt before John Jones fought Alexander Gustafson. A UFC 232, which was 232, 232, Stepe, 226.

So that was after. So DC was a two division champion as well. well. D.C. didn't relinquish the belt till right before UFC 232. So, well, he was the two-division chair for about four months. So there you go. All right, four-on-stiper, go ahead. Real quick.

Hey, can you hear me? Yep. Hey, thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me. Just real quick, I wanted to know if you had any bets on the card this weekend. I'm looking to make some last second plays. So if you have some bets, let me know what they are. If not, what are some good lines? That's all. I have no bets.

zero bets all bets are barred this week I will not bet again until 296 let's see if there's anything that looks good it's kind of like just a tough one to call honestly like this seems like a very proppy

betting card honestly it's not a lot of value anywhere yeah so it'll be kind of like a propy propy prop card like Peyton Talbot by knockout, I'm sure is like, would be an interesting one. Where is he at?

Peyton Talbot by knockout is plus 100. That's not a bad one. He's like a minus 750 favorite in the fight. So that's not a bad one. Amanda Hebas by decision is always fun. Minus 105. And then there's going to be a lot of finishes on this card, I think. like the main event going you know just find some like juiced up prop lines and go that route but

all right the landscapers are literally just like sitting outside my house so it's a little loud so that's perfect time for me to get on out of here so thank you very much uh we'll have a preview show at 1 p.m eastern uh to get you ready for Vegas 82 on the youtube channel so join us for that uh we'll have the people's pre-fight show for Vegas 82 1 30 p.m eastern time tomorrow early start time 2 p.m. Eastern for Vegas 82, which I love, AK and I back on Sunday for on to the next one. And that's it, everybody. So get excited. And thank you all for listening and joining the show.

And back here on Tuesday, we'll do it all again. But until that, have a great rest of your Friday. And have a heck of a morning, everybody. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.