MMA Fighting - HOAM | Reaction To Carlos Ulberg's UFC 303 Withdrawal, Kelvin Gastelum's Rough Weight Cut

Episode Date: June 21, 2024

UFC 303 has taken another hit to its main card with the loss of surging light heavyweight contender Carlos Ulberg from his scheduled bout with Anthony Smith. As the UFC 303 card continues to be cursed, a one-time title challenger has found himself at odds with the scale ahead of a pivotal matchup this Saturday at UFC Saudi Arabia. On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck reacts to Ulberg's scratch from next Saturday's pay-per-view card, talks discussions ongoing for Smith to face Roman Dolidze, and thoughts on the potential new matchup. Additionally, listener questions include Kelvin Gastelum's latest issues with his weight, his scheduled welterweight bout with Daniel Rodriguez for this Saturday becoming a middleweight bout, the UFC and free agents, and more. Also, UFC Vegas 93 winner Westin Wilson joins the show to recap his first UFC win, react to not getting a bonus for his triangle armbar submission of Jeka Saragih, and more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays and Thursdays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit darktrace.com forward slash defenders for more information. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today, June 21st, 2024. And it is indeed a heck of a morning. We are live on the MMA fighting Twitter space. You can hear the show, and it's a tidy shortly thereafter. On the M.A Fighting Podcasting Network, what's going on? Everybody, I am Mike Heck.

Hope you're all having a wonderful week, a wonderful Friday. We're on the eve of UFC Saudi Arabia on the eve of Bellator Dublin, which I don't think Don Davis even knows that they're going head-to-head with the UFC. I don't know if we saw his latest tweet. He's trying to sell this dream weekend of MMA action. yet he doesn't know what time the UFC event starts. That's kind of a problem, dapper dawn. But that's neither here nor there.

PFL does have an event tonight as well. So, yeah, a lot has happened since we have last spoken. Some of it has to do with Saudi Arabia. Some has to do with UFC 303. Just a whole bunch of weirdness and wackiness as always. For instance, we found out that Antonio Tricoli is sort of the sacrificial lamb of the UFC's middleweight division. He's supposed to fight Iqum Al-Ascarraf last week.

Al-Scaraf gets the main event for Saudi Arabia. And they're like, you know what, Antonio? You did us such a favor. We're going to do you a solid. We're going to send you to Saudi Arabia to take a fight on three days notice against Sharamaga Madov. How does that sound, buddy? and of course Chacoli said,

Bet, I'm in and he just do just going through the gauntlet going through the ringer but I guess like if there's a positive side to this none of these fights have actually happened yet but it seems like this one will so that happened

we also found out that the featured bout between someone's at the house Calvin Gasselm and Daniel Rodriguez no longer a welterweight fight Calvin Gassum's weight cutting issues just continue on. It's bad. He seems to have no remorse about it at all, which is pretty frustrating. If you watch that media day scrum, it was pretty bad. It was pretty bad. He was smiling, having a good time, was not taking it seriously. Just a super bad look. And now that fights at 185, Daniel Rodriguez, absolute G, for taking this fight. Regardless, and hopefully he gets a nice extra bag of money from Kelvin Gassum because he deserves it. And I got a feeling that Calvin Gassum might not be long for this UFC world.

I think he's got to go out there and have the performance of a lifetime. Otherwise, I think the UFC is going to cut bait. And they 1,000 percent should, at my opinion. I don't like to see people lose their jobs, but when you don't take this stuff seriously, when you don't act like a professional, it's never really a good look, and I did not love that at all. I was actually maybe a little bit upset

watching Kelvin Gassum just kind of make light of the situation while Daniel Rodriguez was seriously feeling the effects of his weight cut, and the fight will move forward. And then we got Sergey Padoch, Alex and Raubov. We got Rob Bordaker, Kamal-Skarov. And just when we thought UFC 303 was safe, no longer. Another hit to the International Fight Week card.

We officially confirmed about an hour ago, Carlos Ulberg, out of UFC 303, out of his fight with Anthony Smith. No replacement as of yet. Anthony Smith is expected to stay on the card. There are reports out there that Roman DeLidez is 100% in on this. That is just not right.

It is not accurate. is this fight being discussed? Yes. Is it done? No, it is not done yet. It's not finalized. Penn has not gone to paper. We're not at that stage just yet.

But that fight is being talked about Roman Deleizze. Clearly the front runner for that fight, but Roman Deleizze has been in Georgia for a hot minute. And to fly from Georgia to, to back to Vegas and then prepare to fight Anthony Smith on a week's notice. It's a lot to ask of this man who's not even a late heavyweight. But we'll see. We will keep you posted on MAFighting.com, but for those reports that are saying this fight is a done deal,

it is not a done deal just yet. So there you have it. That's the latest news. Oh, when Ryan Garcia gets a one-year suspension, a big fine, his win over Devin Haney overturned a O'N O contest. Yeah, that was just in the last freaking 48 hours right there, all of those things. So it's a rapid fire Friday. Let's keep everything nice and tight, 30, 45 seconds.

If I have to cut you off, I got to cut you off. It's just one of those days where there's a million things happening. And I am only one man. So let's go. And we'll kick things off with any of any more, Moe. Tyson gets to go first today. Go ahead, Tyson. Hey, Mike. Can you hear me?

Yes. Hey, good morning. So two quick questions. My first question is about the Robert Whitaker, Iqum-A-Lis Gara fight tomorrow. I got Robert winning that one, but I'm at plus 120. You know, I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on that. Am I wrong for that? That's the first question.

Second question would be, speaking of Anthony Smith, you talked about it Tuesday a little bit. You know, if he were to beat Carlos Alberg, if that fight didn't get killed. canceled. He could be in the title mix. And I'm not, I'm not really a casual. I just don't know how it managed to slip by me. But where did that beef, um, with Alex Pereira kind of stem from? That's all I got. Thanks, Mike. It's like, it's like not even a real beef. It's just both guys just kind of go back and forth, like, take it a dig at one another. Like, I think it started with Anthony Smith just kind of saying things about Alex Pereira that, um, there's just like little things about like is he even that good there's talks about his

jiu jihitsu ranking is like he a legit ranked jihitsu players like a brown belt or whatever it was just little digs here and there and Pereira's obviously not going to stand by and take that but he's also not going to dish back a lot of trash talk too so he throws his little subtle jabs and then smith gets to throw his little subtle jabs but i don't think there's like an actual like this ain't ddp izzie this is this is This is, I don't know. This is more like, in like the complete bizarro world, this is more like Sean Strickland Paul Acosta, where like I think these two guys actually like each other, but they're still going to like tackle smack.

It's just one of those situations. So yeah, and still to this day, even if it like even if Anthony Smith ends up fighting Roman Delizze, if he goes out there and beats Roman DeLizze and Alex Pereira beats Yuri Parashka, he's 1,000% in the title conversation. It makes no sense. that that is the case. But that is the UFC world that we live in. And on top of that, Alex Pereira has all the power on earth right now. So if the UFC goes to Alex Pereira and says,

hey, why don't you fight Magamette Ancolaev on this date? Alex Pereira could just drop the golden ticket down and be like, nah, I'm not fighting that, dude. I'm going to fight Anthony Smith, or I'm going to go up to heavyweight and fight John Jones. What's the UFC going to say? No.

They're going to say yes, and they're going to say yes very, very quickly because they owe Alex Pereira a lot. He saved their asses twice this year already. And he's becoming a big, big star. So he's in a pretty damn good position right now. Hold on, CB. By the way, Icromel is Scaref.

By the way, I'm Alaskarraf on Draft Kings, plus 130 now. I got to tell you, I was hoping that line would be a little bit juicier. But it opened at plus 120. It's up to plus 130. If it gets up to like plus 150 plus 160, I might take a stab at that. But, I don't know. The more I like think about the,

like I just wish Alaskarraf had a full camp for this one because I'd probably pick him to win. It would not shock me if he went out there and blew Robert Whitaker away. It really wouldn't shock me if that happened. Whitaker is shown he can be cracked, he can be hurt, and Alaskarraf hits like a friggin' truck. And when that dude smells blood in the water,

he is a great white. But the longer this fight goes, it clearly favors Robert Whitaker. So I'll give my official pick on the preview show coming up at noon Eastern, but I think the pick's probably Rob, but Alscaroff is super good and he kind of needed to take this opportunity.

Go ahead, Stevie, my bad. It's all good. Hey, Mike, just a one quick question. I was listening to No Bet Spard the other day and it sounds like GC's on vacation. So I was wondering if the watch parties are still going to happen for the next two pay-per-view events or so. Thanks. Oops, sorry about that.

Yes, GC is in Atlanta. I think, you know, if you listen to Obetz Barries, you'll be there for a couple months. The watch parties are going to happen. Details to follow. We're working it out. I think we're going to still be on location. It just may not be in New York. But we'll have, we're trying to finalize it right now.

Hopefully this is just like a short-term thing, but we can still have a lot of fun with this and we plan on it. So we have some things that we're kind of working on perhaps South Carolina meets Atlanta. That might be what we end up doing. But either way, no matter how we end up putting it all together, The watch party is going to happen with myself and G.C. And maybe some other special guests along the way.

So it will happen. It may look a little bit different. But yeah, it's going to happen. No worries there. But whatever UFC 303 is going to friggin look like next Saturday. Units depleter. Go ahead. Hey, Mike.

Love that name, dude. That's awesome. Thank you. First time, long time. I have something written out here. I'm going to keep it. I have a solution to cheating. Oh, let's go. Love to hear this.

If you are the recipient of a foul, you get a free position change. You can either choose to restart the fight in any position you like, meaning like you can just full mount. You can choose, you can get a back take, or you can choose to be stood up from that point forward. So if you were either taken down, you can go, okay, ref, I want to. So this is for all infractions? Any infraction that a refraff calls like, okay, that was a foul.

Interesting. It's not as bad as taking a point, but it's still a really big deterrent because if you ball kick somebody, now it's like, okay, now I'm in full amount. Or if I take them down, I'm going to get stood up because I just ball kicked the guy and now he gets his free get up. Thoughts. I like that. I like it. I've thought about it for years. I'm out of here.

I'm out of here. I love the show. Thank you. Thanks, man. Yeah, so, I mean, that's certainly interesting. The correct answer for all of this is that a point should be taken with every infraction at this point because I know there are some people, especially newer fans, like, well, you can't take a point like on the first thing because that's the first warning. No, it isn't. The first warning is given in the back before the fighters walk.

out and fight. The referee who is in charge of the bout goes and talks to both teams, to both fighters and says, here are the rules, here's what you can and cannot do. It's considered your official first warning. So by the time it gets like the fourth and fifth warnings in the fight, it's actually like the sixth warning, which drives me fucking crazy. It drives me insane. I like that. I understand that accidents happen. So if you want to let like the ding ding kick happen the first time like okay we're human beings uh if you want to let the eye poke happen the first time i still would take a point if it were up to me but you want to let one go fine the fence grabs are ridiculous those like never get called um and i've been saying for a while like for the fence

grabs it should be an automatic takedown like it could be in the same position uh you have to stop the action dude who grabs the fence has to be on his back, we restart the fight. If it happens a second time, dude still gets the takedown if he wants it, but it goes in the middle of the octagon, away from the fence, and if it happens a third time,

he gets that same position plus a point is taken. Like, and that, I don't even like that. I just feel like it should be a point automatically, because you've already been given the rules. You know what it is. It's, and you're in the UFC. Like, this isn't,

We're on the regional seat. This is the pros. This is the big show. You should know you can't grab the fence or kick a guy in the balls. Heck, I'm telling, if I'm a coach right now, I'm telling all my fighters, especially the newcomers, to miss weight by three pounds. Just go miss weight.

Go miss it. So what? What are you going to lose? 20% of your purse? 20% of your show money? So what? You go out there and win? It doesn't even matter.

Go miss weight. Just do it. There's no penalty. You lose 20%. What's that? What's 20% of $5,000 or $10,000? It's like $2,000, which is like nothing after taxes.

And then if you win the fight, it all sort of evens out anyway. So, yeah, I mean, Jen and I have been saying for years, every coach should be telling their fighters to cheat because you've got to win at all costs. It's not the way I like to conduct this. business, but this is the old cliche, if you ain't cheating, he ain't trying. And that's what

MMA is right now. The referees do not have, they do not want the responsibility of making the decision that could cost a fighter a fight. But at the same token, you're allowing the fighters to do whatever the hell they want in there. And there's no repercussions. Yet in every other sport, there are repercussions for everything. Accidental purpose does not matter. Pass interference is past interference. But your suggestion of just taking any position at all

is pretty interesting. I thought when you said stand him up, he gets like a free punch in the face or something, because that would be ridiculous too. That might be like on infraction 5, you just have to let the dude hit you in the face as hard as you can. But, yeah, all this shit needs to change.

Refereing needs change. Judging needs an overhaul. A whole bunch of things. of stuff. Let's go to Jay. What's up, Jay? Jay not connecting. Support for this show comes

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Jay, hop a hop back in. Try it again. Abzwalia, go. I'm Mark Hakeka, morning. It's been a long time. I hope you've been doing fun, man. I just got one question. I really want to ask this last week, but unfortunately I didn't get a chance to. So I ask him now, it's just regarding Hamsat-U-Mai, man. What happens to his career?

What do you think he goes next? And do you also think that his, I guess, popularity or, stardom takes a dip or can he revive it back to kind of what it was two years back when he was at the height of his career? Because personally for me I still think he's a very

popular fighter. I also think that he has definitely lost a lot of traction and him you know being out of the Saudi car that he has been in the headline may potentially hurt his career unless he

makes a big comeback in in a very spectacular way that push him back to the top because, you know, I'll be honest, I don't care what anyone says. I do think he was the closest thing to truly being the, like, next

Connor McGregor in the very, not like, I'm not saying Colin McGregor as an all, he would be as famous as him, but he did have the same sort of hype. You know, Colin McGregor in 2014 had he had countries backing him up. He had people who actually tuned into Watch his fights and he was racking

you know, millions and millions of views for all of his embedded episodes. So I was just wondering, where do you see Hamzal's career going from here? Do you think he is a contender in this division? Can he become a champ or is he kind of done? I mean, he certainly can. He's got the ability. His grappling, his wrestling is just, it's unbelievable.

He's obviously got deficiencies. We saw it in the Gilbert Burns fight. We saw it in the Uspin fight. It's just how it is. The dude is full, full guy. ass, no breaks from Jump Street, and then he gets tired, but still finds ways to win the fight. So, yeah, I mean, I'm not going to say he's done, but boy, is there a lot of shine taken off of him right now after all this? It's tough because it's one thing to, you know, be a little bit snake-bitten.

It's another thing to, you know, have injuries and stuff like that. It's another thing to just, and I'm not saying that's what it is here. There is part of that because you don't actually know what the hell is going on. But at the same token, you don't want to have the reputation of being just unreliable. Where if you are booked in a fight, no one's going to believe you're actually fighting. And I think we're getting close to that with Hamza right now. where it's just like the Nick Diaz syndrome where you can book a Nick Diaz fight

but no one's going to believe it until he actually steps in the cage and I feel like we're heading in that direction with Hamzaad and then we just have to figure out like how he's going to do this we have to figure out where he can actually fight

it seems like Saudi he could fight he can fight in Abu Dhabi but how can do you have to give him a title shot if he can't come to the States. Like we don't, that's a big problem if your champion can't travel, especially to Las Vegas. That's a big problem. So all these things need to be figured out. First and foremost, he's got to get healthy.

It's a bummer, man. It's, it's just a bummer. But for every Hamzaat Shemaiah, there's an Alex Pereira, because Pereira has picked up all those pieces. and this has been said by pretty much everybody. But I'll go ahead and piggyback on it. Alex Pereira has become what everyone thought Hamzaa Tshmaia would become. It's a little bit of a different thing because Pereira is just knock a dude silly. But this is what we expected from Hamzaat when he came into the UFC.

He's going to go in there, win the welterweight title, is going to move up to middleweight, win the middleweight title, all that. And now prayer is just kind of bounce right by him. And yeah, you're right. The rise of Hamzaa was incredible. Truly incredible. Bursts onto the scene. Wins the two fights in a week. Knox out Gerald Mearshardt in one of those holy shit moments has the Burns fight. And I covered that event.

I covered that event. The amount of people in Jacksonville who just thought Hamzaa Chbibyib was going to absolutely murder Gilbert Burns, a guy who fought for the belt seconds away from becoming the welterweight champion. There's like, Gilberts has no chance. This dude's going to kill him. Everybody. Everybody in Jacksonville was saying that. That's just, you didn't even see that with Connor.

With Connor was, well, wait till he fights this dude, or wait until he fights a wrestler, or wait until he fights another Southpaw. Like, he can't handle all this. With Hamza, he's like, yeah, he's going to kill him. Yeah, he's going to kill him. Yeah, he's going to run this dude over. Outside of maybe John Jones, I don't remember seeing anything quite like it.

But now we slow down. We're lucky to get him once a year now, and it's tough. It's tough. It's tough sailing right now. It's tough. Jay, go ahead. I think we have you. Hey, Michael.

Are you able to hear me? Yeah, I got you. All right. So I just had a quick question with. How do you know, I'm sorry, let me rephrase this different. How are the UFC picking who, what free agents they're signing? Because from looking at like the different prospects from or the other organization like KSW, off and on, ACA, they have top prospects that apparently want to leave that got

offers from the UFC, but they're only getting offered like Dana White Contender Series or 12 and 12 contracts. And I think it's getting to the point out where people are starting. to notice that these cards aren't really doing that great. They're not. The fights aren't that really exciting because they're not really signing the best people anymore. Yeah, I know they got Kai Asakura from Ryaz. But we also found out that apparently DOC has no interest in signing Kiyochi Horaguchi, which doesn't make sense to me because that would even more like hype up the Lightway Division. And there's also some other similar stories like with Saladin

Parnas from KSW and Lusin Kater from Akina. So I just want to know is how How do you think the UFC is going to handle this problem later on? Because the prospects are going to get older, like sort of how they sign with MVP and Michael Chandler. And they're not going to be necessarily in their primes anymore. They're sort of just waiting for them to once they're done, finish with their organization, to just then finally sign with UFC for a lowered contract. So I just want to know, like, what do you think just goes into their minds with signing free agents? Do they just really not want to pay them?

Do they not think they're worth that? Like not much money? So that's it. Have heck of one morning. Thanks for taking my phone. Thanks, man. It's a business thing. I mean, it's just a business thing.

Kaias occurs, a good signing. I would love to see Kioji Horaguchi. I'm sure. Let's remember he's had Kioji already. I'm sure Kioji is asking for pretty solid money that the UFC doesn't feel he's worth. So they're okay, like, letting him go. and letting him sort of stick around it. If you're Kiyogi, like, okay, then I'll just make a bunch of money and fight and

rising. Like, all good. Totally fun. Some of the KSW guys and all that stuff, like, no one knows who, like most people don't know who these fighters are. I remember when Roberto Soldeach was a free agent? I can tell you for sure the UFC offered him a really good deal. like a real good deal I thought for sure Soli's just going to resign with KSW

because the offer he was getting from KSW from what I heard was insane was insane money and then one somehow paid even more than that so from a business perspective

like the UFC is just going like people want to overpay for some of these guys at least in their eyes like they're not going to sit there and get in a bidding more than anybody because they don't need to. The UFC can put, I mean, literally, like, they're putting on some of the worst cards

they have ever put on as a promotion, and it does not matter. People will watch, people will buy tickets for it. It is insane. The amount of business they are doing right now with not good lineups. TFL is, like, putting together, like,

what they feel is, like, their best cards. This Bellator doubling cards real good on paper. Not a soul is going to watch it. Not a soul. Because they're all going to watch the UFC card. The UFC knows that. They know it. They know it.

So when Paul Hughes is a free agent and he's coming in asking for really good money, UFC is going to be like, no, we're not giving it to you. Because outside of the UK and like the hardcore fans, nobody knows who Paul Hughes is. It's just, it's just the facts. Nobody knows who. he is outside of us and Cage Warrior fans. And fighters have doubled in the UK. Like, they know him.

Fans in America, like casual MMA fans in the United States have no clue Paul users. No clue. So PFL offered them boatload of money to go fight for them. And good on him for taking it. The UFC's like, okay. Like, go get it, man. Like, go get it.

And here's the thing that the UFC does brilliantly, though. When these guys become stars, when they're at the peak of their powers, they know deep down that every one of those fighters all want to go to the UFC. So basically, instead of them honing their craft in the UFC and making 12 and 12, the UFC knows they'll make a bunch of money with PFL, they'll exhaust that for as much as they can. And then eventually, because PFL has no roster and Bellator has no real roster outside of like a few dudes in each division,

once you run through all those guys, like there's nothing left. What is there left to do? And the first call they're going to make is to go to the UFC. And the UFC will probably get them for even cheaper than they were making it with PFL. You're telling me Kayla Harrison's making more money

in the UFC than she was making with the PFL? I mean, I don't know for sure. I would be legitimately shocked if that was the case. Legitimately shocked. but eventually you have enough money and it's just like okay but do I want to fight this person again for the fourth time or do I want to fight this fighter that I'm a minus 17,000 favorite over again do I want to go through the entire PFL season again?

So Paul Hughes can become a star with PFL and then as soon as he peaks, the UFC can just take them. That's what they do and they do it very well. They did it with Michael Chandler, they did it with Kayla Harrison. They're doing it with Kaia Sakura, and there'll be many others along the way that they will do that with as well. And they'll keep doing it. They'll keep doing it. But they're not going to get into a bidding war with anybody about any fighter. Unless it's like somebody on their own that became a free agent. But the UFC typically does not allow it to get that far.

They usually like to lock people down before that. So. Unless you're a Derek Lewis or somebody like that, because they know you're probably just going to come back. Let's go to Leflein. Go Leflein. Lefleyn. You are muted, Leflein. You are still muted.

You could not possibly be any more muted. There you are. Sorry, Mike. It was good. So I know you briefly just talked about Delitzie. It's not confirmed. But if that does happen, what are your thoughts on that fight? Kind of weird.

to get a middleweight stepping up. I know it's because it's on short notice, and obviously it's hard to get someone to cut the full weight. But if that happens, what would your early lean be? And also, the co-main event tomorrow, or not tomorrow, day after that, Volkov and Pavlovich, I wanted to know what you think is at stakes for the winner. Me personally, I'd like to see if Pavlovich wins.

I want to see him versus Garn in Paris. I know that's probably unlikely, because Garn seems to be. turning into an Olympic representative rather than a mixed martial artist anymore. But hopefully that could happen. That would be pretty cool. And if Volkov were to win, I mean, you could do that rematch, I guess. But yeah, what do you want to see for the winner of Garn v. Pavlovich? And, yeah, also, what are your thoughts on the, if Smith and that happens?

Yeah. That's tough to say, man, for the Comain. I think the end, like, it's until we actually know what happens at UFC 304, I don't know, man. Because if Curtis Blades goes out there and beats Tom Aspinall, like, Sergey Pavlovich should probably get a title shot if he wins because he ethered Curtis Blades. I mean, just destroyed him. How can you not give him an interim title shot at that point? Because let's be perfectly honest with ourselves. There's no way

John Jones is fighting Curtis Blades. There's zero chance that fight ever happens. Could he maybe fight Sergei Pavlovich? Pavlovich continues to just knuckle sandwich everybody into another universe? Maybe because John could just tackle him. And unfortunately, we don't know how much improvements Pavlovich has made in that regard

when it comes to his takedown defense, because when we saw it tested, it was not good. Alastair Overeem looked like Colby Covington in there against him, just taking him down at will. But Pavich fights all lasts like 90 seconds because someone goes night night real, real quick. So it's tough to say, man, it's tough to say. If we live in a world where Tom Aspinall wins,

then, yeah, maybe you do serious. I kind of want to see Cyril Gondon Alameda at this point. I think Jailton Almeida is doing a damn good job trying to solve this thing on social media. I really do. Every five, like it's like every day, there's a new tweet from Jelton Almeida calling for Cyril

Gond. I love that fight. I think that's perfect matchmaking. That's real good. Let's see what Cyril has done. Let's see the improvements that he's made. I think Cyril Gond somehow, some way, Cyril Gond was offered the Tom Aspenall fight, and I just don't

know how that's possible. I do not know how that is possible. He goes out there, loses to John Jones. It was kind of embarrassing the way that it went down. It's just the truth. And then he beats Sergei Spivak at UFC Paris and then just refuses to fight anybody. He's like, nah, I'm not going to fight Tom Aspenov. Nah, I'm not going to fight this dude. I only want the title shot. all that. And now Tom Aspinol is the interim champion. He's like, yeah, Tom, I'll fight you. And then they offer him the fight.

Cyril Gahn, after beating Sergei Smevac, and I've said this before, and I'll say it again, if Sergei, Tom Aspinall went to freaking Paris. He went to Paris. You could have gotten that fight. He would have gotten an interim title fight. Cyril Gahn would have fought for the interim belt at UFC 295. If he just played his cards right, if he called the Pavlovich or Tom Aspital, he would have fought for the interim belt 1,000 percent.

And he didn't do it and didn't get it. And somehow he got off for the fight over Curtis Blades, which is a travesty, in my opinion. It's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. So I don't know. I think Volkov's kind of in a better spot because he's sort of a fresh name. but at Curris Blades wins like kind of all bets are off right now

it could be an interim title shot on the line with this fight but if Tom Aspedal wins I think they're both kind of in some big trouble the Anthony Smith I don't know man I almost like don't even want Anthony to fight on the card now

like I've no disrespect to anybody I have absolutely zero interest in watching Anthony Smith Roman Deliensee none like what are they like there's nothing there i mean at this point like anthony's on the card just to maybe fight alex perrera and he's fighting a guy he's going to be bigger than and it's a fight that he probably should win i know roman can't be kind of dangerous but you know roman

doesn't look great in his last couple fights and i mean definitely didn't look good against in his last fight. He looked real bad in that one. And I kind of think Anthony Smith can win that one. But me, it's just kind of there. It's not I wouldn't even, let me

look at this card right now. Like what I even, let me see. I don't even know if that's a main card fight. Honestly, like I would put, like honestly, I would take I mean, I would take, I would probably take MBS, B, CCHS and not the main card as well. I would put

I would put Cubs Swanson and Andre Feeley on the main card and I'd probably open the main card with Peyton Talbot. Like that's who I'd probably open the main card with if they booked that fight. Peyton's going to be a star. They're going to push him as

they should. He's exciting. He's a little raw, but I think he showed that he's super damn good at this fighting thing in his last fight. Like you started off with with that one. Then you go into Andre Feely,

then you go into Machado, Gary versus Michael Page, then you go into Brian Ortega, Diego Lopez, then you go into Alex Pereira, and Perashka. You can do Anthony Smith, Roman DeLizze is the feature prelim if you want.

I don't know. But to me, I just don't, I don't know, I don't love that fight. I'd rather Anthony wait and fight somebody else. I don't know. Like, just look at what that has become. Look at what this whole thing

become started with Jamal Hill versus Carl Carl, no, started with Jamal Hill versus Collier Roundtree, then it turned into Jamal Hill versus Carlos Oldberg, then it turned into Anthony Smith versus Carlos Oldberg, and now it's Anthony Smith against maybe Roman Delizze. What are we doing?

What is happening here? You know what I would rather see? You know what I'd rather see? I would rather see, here's what I would do. I would rather see Roman DeLizze fight Mark Andre Barrio. and I would have Joe Piper

fight Anthony Smith. That's what I would do. That's way more interesting to it. If we're going to get weird, let's get weird. That's weird in a different kind of way. You also are taking a risk that maybe you're stunting Joe Piper

with back-to-back really tough fights for a guy who is a little bit raw. But honestly, I think that's way more interesting right now. But we'll see how to play. plays out. We'll see what Roman can do. Who knows? Maybe Roman DeLizze becomes

like the next Tiago Santos, where he just jumps up to 205 for a fight that kind of came out of nowhere, and then all of a sudden, just rode that wave all the way to a title shot. You know? Boy, 303 is... Charles Jordan versus John Silva. I think that's kind of fun.

Boy, Andrea Rolofsky, Martin Boudet. that could be what's the heavyweight over on that one I'm going to be jumping all over that that's for sure Peyton Talbot Janice Gabori Ricky Simone Venetia's Oliver will be fun

Joe Piper is always fun Ray Saruya versus Carlos Hernandez Michelle Waterson Gomez is still fighting against Julian Robertson and then yeah Cubs Swanson Andre Feeley Carl Soltberg, not fighting, but Anthony Smith may or may not be fighting somebody.

And then Ian Gary, Michael Page. I feel like that fight is, with all this news and everything going on, I feel like that fight is completely flying under the radar now. And you have Meyer Blino Silva, Macy Chieson, Brian Ortega, Diego Lopez, and Alex Pereira, Yere, Brasca. It's fine. It's fine card. That's where we're at.

all right uh i could probably take one more if anybody hasn't gotten in here and that wants to hop on in we will have a preview show talking ufc sada arabia mostly we'll sprinkle in some bellator talk uh i kind of feeling there won't be a ton of that if we're being honest since like i said not a lot of people are going to be watching that one unless you're split screening it but other than that way-ins everybody made weight I guess, like, technically,

even though the whole Calvin Gasolm thing really pissed me off. We'll take one more quick one from I tried unit depleter. What the hell happened? Support for this show comes from the audible original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The earth only has a few days left. Roscoe Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quality.

quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster with the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. Reporting for Flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes.

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Yep. One more question since three-for-all Friday. So the Celtics are having their parade today. If you had to guess, which player do you think is probably going to be the most intoxicated? Oh, God. I don't even know if it's like a current player. Like, dude, I could see a war where like Scalabrini's on one of the duck boats and just starts getting after it. I'd like to see like Peyton would be fun.

So I think everyone's going to have a pretty good time. I don't know if anyone's going to get like rip-roaring shit-faced. I would say like Al Horford probably deserves it, but. I mean, Al didn't even go to Miami with the rest of the team because it's like not his jam. But yeah, I got a bit of FOMO. I can't, I can't lie to you. I would have absolutely been there in five seconds. I've been to two of the Patriots parades.

I, nothing in the world was going to keep me away from the Red Sox won in 2004. That was a good time. in the cold, rainy, wet streets of Boston. The Patriot zones are so fun. Now, Bobcraft, getting blasted and dancing on the stage. Like, those are the days, man. Those are the days. But if you're listening and you're in Boston,

you're heading out to Boston to celebrate banner number 18. Shout out to you. Hope you enjoy it. Just don't do anything real dumb. Don't be throwing things of the players. Don't be that guy. Don't do it. Just don't do it.

Not worth it. You look like an idiot. Just be positive and be happy and enjoy it, all right? Enjoy it. Just like I hope you enjoyed this program. Just like I hope you will enjoy the preview show coming up at noon Eastern. By the way, just throwing this out there. If you were here live the whole time and you think of yourself,

yeah, I don't need to listen to the podcast. There's nothing different. I already know the whole show. You'd be wrong. you would be wrong because we're going to drop a little bonus interview on the back end of the podcast. I got the chance to talk to Weston Wilson the other day, and it was a great conversation. And I got humbled up. I spoke to him. I looked Weston Wilson right virtually in the face, and I said, I said some pretty not great things about you. and I was wrong and I apologize

and he accepted and it was a good conversation and then he asked me sort of and I kind of explained to him why I felt the way that I did we hashed it out we were all good

we were all good and uh we there's already one right up from that conversation we talked about yesterday uh Jesus Christ man Weston Wilson gets the biggest win of his career

gets his first finish clearly deserved a bonus thought he got it because he went to I mean look you're going to hear it in the interview he went to BJPen.com and BJPen.com reported that he won the bonus

and then he hit up his manager and his manager's like nah, he didn't get it. By the way, BJPen.com still has Weston Wilson is a bonus winner. Just throwing that out there. Just throwing that out there. But he had a lot to talk about. We talked about Wonderboy Thompson.

Talked about his thoughts on a potential Wonderboy Thompson, Joaqu Buckley, fight. So lots to discuss. Really good conversation with West of Wilson. And you're going to hear that coming up next if you're listening to the podcast feed. But until next week

everybody, we'll be back on Tuesday. We'll recap Saudi Arabia. We will get you ready for UFC 303 and whatever cardation of that event. It will look like come Tuesday and heading into the rest of next week. So thank you all very much. Have a great rest of your

Friday. Have a heck of a morning, everybody. All right, let us say hello to Weston Wilson, who this past Saturday, UFC Vegas 93, picked up his first UFC win, his first UFC finish, did it as a massive underdog and submitted Jekka Sadaghi in the first round. Triangle Arm bar submission. What a road it has been for Weston Wilson. How are you, sir? I am fantastic.

Couldn't be better. Yeah, it's been a whirlwind. But I got to say, it was probably one of the best fight camps I've ever had. and probably best lead up. The only thing I had was I was a little sick going into the fight, but I didn't really notice. So I started noticing after. Oh, really? Interesting.

So I'm just going to come right out and say it. I'm going to rip the Band-Aid off, so to speak. During your post-fight scrum, following the win, you had some things to say about the media. You wanted to raise the proverbial middle fingers to some of the members of the media, and I assume one of those members of the media is me, because I was pretty hard on you. I didn't go as far as to saying, like, you're the worst featherweight signing in UFC history or anything like that. But I will admit,

I was a little bit hard on you, no doubt about that. And I am man enough to admit when I was wrong and that I deserve to have egg on my face and that I deserve to at least need some sort of thing to remove one foot, maybe even two feet from my mouth after all this. So let me just say before we get into anything, apologies to you, sir. Oh, no, no, I'm sorry. For getting that first win and doing it impressively. Look, I was wrong. I was wrong. People let me know on our post-fite show. I said I was wrong, but I wanted to have you on obviously to talk about the win in the road. You and I have done interviews before you got to the UFC long time ago. Yeah, yeah. But I wanted to tell you face to face that I was a dink and I was wrong and you made me look like

an idiot. So good for you. You know, it really honestly, there was just one website that really came to mind. There was a sports cata or whatever. I don't know. They ripped me a new one. Like when I got signed and every, every fight after that, they've really like, they said hurtful things.

Like, if you got your opinion, like, I'm going to lose and stuff. Like, that doesn't bother me. But when you're like attacking me and you're attacking, you know, my manager, my manager's wife and stuff like that, that's where it crosses the line. And so it was more like to that. And yeah, there's a lot of like, I think it's easy as a fan to, you know, trash fighters. Like I feel, excuse me, I feel super bad for Jekka because there's all these Indonesians now that are like turning their back on. on, you know, their, their countrymen, their, their hero, they're, the guy that they idolize. And so it's just a weird, like, it's a weird sport because you have these, these alpha males,

these tough as men that are competing against other alpha males, other tough men in the cage. And as an out, like, and I've been that person, too, where I've criticized people who are like, oh, man, that guy sucks, you know. And it's like, it's easy looking in from, the outside to criticize somebody, but you don't know like how hard it is getting in there. So I appreciate it. And it wasn't to you. Like I've always thought we were cool.

Honestly, I didn't even know you said anything negative. Yeah. Look, and it was mostly, I never said like you sucked or anything like that because look, I've talked to you before. Like we've known you were a talented grappler. You made it to the UFC. Like I don't care who your manager is. The fact that you got to compete in that octagon, there aren't many people who could say

that. Like, they just can't. You have to be, you have to have some level of, of fighting goodness to get to the freaking UFC. It's the best promotion in the world. There's a reason why they are just absolutely crushing it. The reason I, it's more, it wasn't even more like this guy's bad. It was just more concern of, especially after like the Gian Silva fight. I'm just, it was uncomfortable to watch at times.

Do you know what I'm saying? That was a, you know, let's talk about that fight. So that fight was particularly difficult. I was just so negative going into that fight. Like, A, I really wanted Gabriel Santos. Like, I had a great game plan for Santos. And then they switched it up. And I'm like, geez, I'm fighting like another Brito again.

Like, I don't like that style of a fight. And it was, you know, three week notice or whatever it was. And I had to flip the script and change up, you know, the whole game plan. And it was around Christmas time. And I was like really negative about having a fight. in the apex and I just didn't have like a solid game plan going into it and then um you know I had really I made weight easy but like being on weight like that hour and a half before the UFC like weighed me in like my body just started shutting down like I started having muscle failure I started

having like cramps and nausea and everything like that like the PI had like after I got off the scale of PI had to take me into a back room and give me like all sorts of medicine and stuff like that and so I just didn't feel good going into that fight like I wasn't fresh there was no pop there's no snap and and my head was just negative and I just wanted to get out of there you know but losing in such an embarrassing way like that and not performing like it definitely I definitely lit a fire under me. And I was like, okay, you know, you're at that fork in the road where you're like, do you still got it?

Like, do you still want to do this? Or do we just call it a career and you just accept that you're like the worst UFC featherweight signing in UFC history, you know? And so I got to that fork in the road and I said, no, I'm going to, I'm going to prove myself. And I begged Sean Shelby for one more chance. And I begged for him to let me prove myself. And they gave me a similar guy in Jekka to Gene Silva.

gave me that test and I think I went into it with a different mindset and different headspace. Have you ever experienced like that before, like heading into the Silva fight where things just didn't go your way. It was just kind of like one piece of adversity after another, one hurdle to jump over after another. You weren't really feeling it, not to mention the weight cut and how you had to deal with all that after. And the hell of long too.

Like his walkout took him like 10 freaking minutes. Oh my God. I can't even think about that. I'm like, I'm gearing up, ramped up. And he's literally like taking one step every freaking 30 seconds. And I'm like, what the hell is going on? Like, I'm just like, and the whole time, like my legs are just becoming jello at that point. And so like by the time I got in the cage, I felt like I was walking through quicksand myself.

I don't know what type of voodoo crap he was doing, you know, put a spell on me. It made my legs feel like I was, you know, in concrete. And so, yeah, I don't know, man. It was just a bad night for me, bad performance. It was embarrassing, you know, facing, you know, family, friends after that. And you do, you question, like, man, do I really suck that bad? Like, were the media right all along? Were the odds makers right all along?

And then I had that mental shift. And I was like, no, forget that. I'm good. I know I'm good. And Coach T sat me down and he let me know, like, I'm a lot better than what I showed, and I need to start, you know, showing that in practice. And so, heck, for the last six months, you know, it's just been, boom, boom, boom, making sure that I'm focused.

And I worked with the sports psychologist and started learning how to compartmentalize. And when I'm on the mat, I'm just a fighter. When I'm at home, I'm a dad and a husband. When I'm at work, I'm a, you know, an employee. And so, like, learning how to, like, switch roles has helped a lot. Did that like just sort of start for you after the sports psychologist like you've learned how to separate those was that something you've been dealing with throughout your career as well? Yeah, I mean my I've had a lot of like my career my ups and downs have all been all mental like

I think I'm I'm such a mental fighter. I know I have all the talent even though I look weird and awkward like you're six one and a half you know fighting at 145 pounds you don't look you don't look you. You don't look good like the other guys, you know, but I know I have like the talent on the ground, on the feet and everything like that. It's just for me, it's always been mentally like worrying about like, am I going to fatigue? Am I going to, you know, be weaker than these guys. Are they going to, you know, how hard do they hit?

And going into this fight, like I learned to separate myself from the result. Like I was telling Coach T and I was telling Wonder Boy, I was like, look, I don't care if I win or lose. And I said, and I know that's going to sound bad. I said, but I only care if I perform. And if I perform, it's not going to matter what the result is. We'll just be happy with the performance. And so that was kind of the mindset. It was like it doesn't matter about when you're losing.

It just matters about performing to the best of my ability. and if I perform and lose, he's a better man than me. But if I perform and win, then we did everything that we knew, you know, was going to happen. And so that was kind of the mindset going into it was, you know, and like the other thing like the sports psychologist was like two things can be true, you know, like, like, so it was like I don't care if I win or lose and I want to win, you know, like, so like it can be, you know, two things can be true at once. And so, like, having that mindset was, you know, all the, all the difference. And it helped me kind of like, like in the Brito and Silva fight, like, it was just lights camera action, you know. And I didn't even notice people around me in the cage or not in the cage, like in the seats and everything like that. This time, like I got in the cage. I saw my parents. I saw my wife. I saw, you know, all of these other fighters and friends of mine in the audience. And so I was like, man, like, that's cool. like I got to like relish in the moment instead of it being like, oh, crap, I'm fighting on the biggest stage and people are watching and, you know, I'm just, all I see is the bright lights. And so I didn't see that this time, which was good.

Yeah. And I'm glad you mentioned just sort of the looseness behind it because that was one of the things I wanted to look for when I went back and rewatch the fight because you would think that, and we've seen this all the time in the UFC, a fighter in the position that you were in losing two straight, you even said you had to beg Sean and Shelby to give you one more shot, you would think that the world is on your shoulders, that all that pressure is upon you. And then I went back and rewatch the fight. And you just, you seemed loose as a goose in there. Like, it seems like you were, as you said, you were fine with the result as long as you went in there and performed.

The body language was completely different from the Silva and the breedo fights. Yeah. Yeah. Like I was, I was so calm. And like I said, like I knew if I lost, U.S.C. is going to cut me. but I was okay with that like honestly I was okay with that result and and I was okay like if the UFC cut me and I was going to be like you know I had three fights in the UFC that was great like yeah I lost all three of them but like you move on like I have plenty of opportunities outside of the cage you know like I can go into boxing and I I know people question my chin but actually in boxing I've beaten an 11 and one kid I was actually my pro debut was against an 11th in a one kid and I had one star rating after my first boxing match, which is like really rare

and good. And so I have all these boxing promoters like, man, we can make you into a star, you know, in boxing, in the boxing world. And I was like, I could go to karate combat and I could do all these other things if the UFC were to end today, you know. And so I came to like be okay with that. Now I'm not okay with that. I'm like, I got stuff to prove. Like, I can do this, you know, and so my confidence is at an all-time high and I have other, you know, goals and a new mindset. But yeah, like, I think I had this conversation with Chris Curtis years ago where it was like, he loves a fight and I love to win. And so like I'm finally like getting that like where it's like, I don't care about winning. Like I just want to. It's not a nice. It's not.

necessarily like I don't love to fight but I love to perform and so like it's now loving that performance and that ability to just do things that that people you know haven't seen or that are rare you know like I didn't know that it's arm bar triangle was or triangle arm bar was was so rare and when they said it was the 12th one in UFC history I was like man that's really cool like there's some other stuff that I can do way more that are even rare than that so like now I'm like I'm going to try to do some more super rare submissions and hopefully i'll get that performance bonus after i was gonna say dude like how is this how did you not get a bonus because we're waiting during our post fight show for the bonuses and we're like weston's definitely getting one now the only question i had was are they good

i announced it like somebody like they announced i got it and so i was like yeah and then i like i text my manager and i'm like did i get it he's like no and i was like what someone reported you got it and you got wind of it? Oh, my gosh. From DJ10.com. So, like, we were like, coach T and I'm like, yeah, we got it. Because I was like, I was like, okay, there's only four finishes in the card. One was a TK injury or injury TKO.

It was like, they never give a performance bonus for that. And then I was like, and two were rear naked chokes in the third round. And I was like, so mine was a first round finish. I was the biggest underdog. And so I was like, it had to be me. And then when it wasn't, I was so depressed. like, oh, man. After all that, like, you got through so much to get to the fight and, like, get the mental

part of the game, like, in a great place. You have this performance. You have, like, the 12th or 13th submission of that kind ever in the UFC. Someone reports you win the bonus, and then your manager tells you you don't get it. Like, man, like, what was the greater feeling? And I don't mean, like, what was better? was it like a higher feeling after you won and got the first UFC win

and got all that weight off your shoulders? Or was it the gut punch after that you didn't get the bonus? Like what weighed more upon you, I guess? Definitely the win. I mean, like, the win was so fantastic being able to see my wife and the emotion that, you know,

because my wife doesn't watch me fight. She doesn't watch, she watched my very first amateur fight And then after that, she's like, I'm done. I don't want to watch anymore. So she hasn't watched me fight in like over a decade. And so for her to be there and watch, like, was fantastic and was so cool. I remember, like, right after I won, I went over to Jiva and I said, hey, I put his arm in your collection because, you know, Jiva Santana, the arm collector.

So I told him, I was like, I put his arm in your collection because that's always been like a running joke. that we've always had. And then I look over and I see my wife and she's like bawling. I see my parents, you know, crying and everything. And I was like, yeah, this is cool. You know, like this is, you know, awesome. Like it is a image that will be etched in my brain, you know, forever. That's awesome.

Did you tell your wife you're going to have to come to all my fights from now on because of what just happened? Maybe she's a good luck charm. I have, I did not tell her that. But all of her friends have told her that she has now been. there for all of them. So yeah, we'll see. I mean, I think she's opening up to it.

When do you want to get back in there? I know you have a very busy life. You have a lot going on. You have things going on outside of the Octagon as well. Have you thought about when you want to get back in there? Is this just waiting for the call and whatever it is? 100% when I want to get back in there. I want to get back in there in the fall.

Whenever they're supposed to come back to Salt Lake. sometime in the fall from what I hear. So I would love to fight in Salt Lake just because it's where I started. So it would be great to kind of go full circle. I am a BYU alumni. So being able to bring the BYU crowd to the fight would be amazing as well. I definitely want to fight a grappler. I'm tired of fighting these like power punchers.

I'm not going to, you know, I don't care. As long as, you know, I do exactly what I did last fight, I'll be fine. Is there anybody that stands up to you that you're looking at right now? Or, I mean, you don't strike me as the callout type. Yeah. Okay, so there's guys that I want to fight, but I don't want to, like, I don't want to call them out. There's one I call out just because I think the storyline is good. uh,

Gilbert Burns brother because Gilbert and Wonderboy fought. And so I would like to fight Herbert just on the fact that you know, Gilbert and Wonderboy was close. I would like, uh,

an opportunity to kind of avenge that loss, um, for, for Wonderboy. So I think that would be a cool fight. But, um, we'll see.

Yeah. It's for storyline purposes. You're not like, yeah, storyline. You've taken everything I worked for, Herbert. I want to fight you. Like, you know, I love the storyline aspect.

As soon as you mentioned Gilbert, I was like, older, like, we're both older, but like, does it, does it move the needle in the UFC? Like, no, not at all. But, like, personal, I think it'd be great. I think it'd be a fun, I think it'd be a fun fight. And, you know, Herbert's definitely kind of at the tail end of his career. And, you know, I'm in the middle. And so we'll see what happens.

Yeah, it's all Lake City. That would be a fun one. I'm hearing early October for that, but Gilbert's fighting in September, so maybe I don't know where that card's going to be just yet, but I know. I like it. Buckley just called out Wonderboy for, you know, August, September. So we'll see, we'll see, we'll see what happened. I don't, I don't know. How do you feel about that? The Buckley fight? About that fight. Yeah, how do you like that one? I like it. So I like it a lot.

Buckley's got a little bit of, you know, heat behind him now. And he will strike, but he also is going to, like, maybe go to the ground. I know Wonderboy has been working a ton on grappling, so he's, you know, I think he'd be fine. I think it's an exciting fight. Like, Wonderboy's just been in the, the, the, the, the, like, he's been a staple in the welterweight, like, rankings for so long. who is there for him to fight?

Like Neil Magny, I think, is like the only other guy that he hasn't fought. Kiesa, Usman, yeah, yeah, Ousman's another one. But I think, I mean, who's Usman fighting? Is he at 85 now or is he at 70?

I have no idea. So the UFC, like, had they, they released like the first, I think maybe two episodes of this documentary, this sort of behind the scenes. It's called UFC Inc. on Roku, I think. And there is a moment where they're in the matchmaker meeting

and they wanted to throw Usman in there with Schofkat Rachmanov. And they're like, we're like, we're doing Uspin versus Shafkot. And they're like, all right, we're going to Ushman and Shafkot. And Ali's like, no, man, Ousman wants to fight Wonderboy. And it was just like one of those things. And I know those two have been like circling each other for so long. And Wonderboy just had to fight Shafkot, who is an absolute terror in that division. And so I kind of want to see Wonderboy fight Ustman.

Like I think the fight makes so much sense. And I feel like Wonderboy only fights these dudes on the come up. Give him the Usman fight. Like Usman's not entitled contention right now. I think that came about that. I think they record that right after the Pereira weight miss. Oh, yes. Oh, because Dana had a comment about that.

Because that was when that was when Ali actually called Wonderboy and was like, hey, do you want the Usman? fight because I'll make the Usman fight happen type thing. And so I remember when all that was going on backstage, like not backstage, but like at the gym and everything. And yeah, I remember like Ali, you know, calling over and was like, hey, don't accept anything. You know, Usman wants Wonderboy, you know, and you want, you want Usman.

So like, let's make it happen. And then, yeah, then Wonderboy ended up taking the shopcott fight. And I think Usman ended up taking the Hamza fight on like a week's notice. Yeah. Yeah. And they have to fight each other. What are we doing here? Like let them fight each other.

Who can't do it in 85? It doesn't matter to me. Steve. I'm sure Steve would be like, eh, I don't need to cut those extra 15 pounds. Let's just go. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, Usman versus Wonderful. But I haven't heard. I haven't heard Usman's name in any conversation. I know Buckley is. is calling out Wonderboy. And Wonderboy, you know, like,

I don't think it's a fight that Wonderboy is like, would be nervous about. But Buckley, like, he surprises people. Like, he surprised me. I thought that Russian guy was going to destroy him and he looked good. And I thought Luque would put a beating on him and he looked good. So it's like, Buckley is surprising me every time. Like, I count Buckley out every fight, and every fight he surprises me.

So, you know, I think it would be a fan friendly. Like, it'd be very similar to Holland and Wonderboy. Like, it would be a fan friendly fight where both dudes are going to put it on. I would honestly like to see it as a five-round fight and not a three-round fight. Yeah. I'd be okay with that. There's like the types of fights that Stephen shines in, too. Yeah, yeah.

Him and Holland was great. Throw it on, like, a fight night. that's not in the apex. Love that. Yeah, like, I think in August, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, Tampa.

Yeah, yeah, Tampa. Like, on that Tampa one, August 24th. That'd be a great one. Yeah, I mean, Wonder Boy fought Holland and Orlando, which is not that far. So, yeah.

I like that idea. See, look, you got a, you got something going as a potential matchmaker. We could see you in the war room one of these days. These fights together. It's amazing. Get you on there. Before I let you go, you mentioned, obviously we're talking about Wonderboy Thompson

and, you know, Coach T in your corner as well. And they were incredibly excited for you getting this win. What has that relationship with Wonderboy and the Thompson clan in South Carolina? What is that done for you? Not just as a fighter, but as a person, what have you taken away from the time you have shared with them over the years? You know, Coach T is like a second dad to me. Like he treats me as if I'm his son.

Like he gives me a hard time. I give him a hard time. Like we have that type of father's son relationship. But he's, if anything, he's instilled, you know, a lot of self-confidence in me. Like he's helped me like really believe in myself and believe in my abilities, my talents, my, my, my cardio. Like, he helps me erase my doubts. And inside and outside of the cage, like, just being able to kind of imitate, you know,

some of the business practices that they have and, and take that into my own businesses. It's helped a ton. And, like, like, and just being a better human being and being more concerned with, you know, my community than just myself. and being more selfless. Because that's a man that Coach T is. I share a little story. So when we were flying home, you know, we were unloading the plane

and we had like a group of old women all by us. And Coach T literally, you know, he's taking down every bag from the overhead bin for all these old ladies. And he's like, I got you, darling. He's like, here you go. Here, what bag is yours? and he's literally just like unloading the overhead bin for like four or five different ladies.

And that's just the type of guy he is. Like you don't see that in today's society anymore. People are just all about themselves, like especially on a plane. You're just trying to get on and get off. And he's taking the time, staying on, helping everybody out, you know, helping out these moms with kids and getting their bags off. I would have helped, but I was stuck in the middle seat. He was on the outside. No, that's the type of man he is.

helps me be like, I, you know, I need to be that way. I need to be helping my community as well. And when he's on the mat, like, he just, he loves all of his students, regardless of what you believe in and, and who you are. And you see, like, he's, he's a hard, you know, he's a hard nose coach. Even in his karate classes, like, he's very hard nose and he expects you to do your best. But at the same time, like he takes the time to make sure that you're doing your moves right and that you're making, you know, you're making the right decisions. And a lot of times,

and it's not like, it's not just like the stars on the mat that he's spending time with where you get a lot of coaches like that. I've been in rooms where like I've been ignored because I'm never like the star student. And he takes time to make sure everybody does it right and does it. you know, to the best of their ability. And that's just saying something about the type of coach and person that, that, you know, Coach T is.

That's amazing. What a guy. What a win. Great job, Weston. Nice to knock off that, that first notch off the old, the old belt there. First UFC win,

rare finish. Now we've got to get you a bonus because I still, I mean, come on. I just heard Dominic Reyes say that he called Dana White and they gave him a bonus. just like nothing, nothing at all. They didn't take care of you in the back end. Nothing.

I don't get you in trouble, but I was disappointed. I was disappointed for you. Nobody said nothing. So I don't even know if Dana White was at the fight. So I think he, I think there was that boxing match going on. Yeah, the, the tank, tank Davis Frank Martin card.

Yeah. I mean, I'd be this and stuff. It was a big, yeah, it was a big, it was a big event. But hopefully we see you back in there. Maybe against Herbert Burns. We get to keep the story. alive with the Burns family and upstate karate and looking forward to that Weston again. My apologies.

Thank you for proving me wrong. No, no, you're good. My man, it's all right. We need that once in a while and you did that for me. So I much respect to you. Well, respect for you for, you know, apologizing and admitting, you know, that you're wrong and everything like that. I mean, I'm always a fan, Mike.

You've always been great. You're a great reporter. So, and you're just doing your job. Appreciate it, Weston. All the best to you. Thank you. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line.

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