MMA Fighting - HOAM | Reaction To Targeted Dustin Poirier vs. Michael Chandler Fight, Billy Goff Talks Winning UFC Contract

Episode Date: August 4, 2022

It appears the grudge between Dustin Poirier and Michael Chandler will be settled by the end of the year, much to the delight of UFC fans. On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck reacts to the targeted lightweight booking and where it currently stands. In addition, listener topics include UFC 279, A.J. McKee making the move to 155 pounds at Bellator 286 against Spike Carlyle and not fighting Patricio Pitbull in the trilogy fight for the featherweight title in October, fighter pay, the stacked UFC 280 card, The Ultimate Fighter and the lack of interest amongst fans, and more. Also, welterweight Billy Goff (34:22) joins the show to recap his stoppage win on Dana White's Contender Series on Tuesday to earn a UFC contract, talks who didn't deserve a contract on the card, when he'd like to make his octagon debut, and more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. The Vox Media Podcast Network. But it is Thursday, August 4th, 2022, and it is a heck of a morning,

live on the MAA Fighting Twitter Spaces, and you will hear the show shortly thereafter on the MMA Fighting Podcasting Network. Hello, I am Mike Tech. Hope everyone's having a wonderful Thursday. We are on the eve of the eve of UFC Vegas 59, or as AK, my best friend likes to say, the tough finale. I believe this is, yeah, the tough 30 finale, which it's not called that, but we will have a couple of tough champions crowned on Saturday.

The card is interesting, pretty fun. I've already talked about this, and this is just me being a whiny baby. I hate the 10 p.m. Eastern start time for this card, especially for a six-fight main card. I'm just not a fan of it. This should be like a 4 p.m. during prelim 7 p.m. Eastern main card. But again, that's just me being a little whiner. Because I know there's a lot of you around the world who hear and see these complaints, and you're like, How dare you when we have to wake up at like 3 a.m. to watch these cards.

So who the hell are you? But we have a lot going on. We have this card. We just found out that the UFC is targeting a fight between Michael Chandler and Dustin Porre, which is not a big surprise to anybody. Right now, the only thing that is being really discussed because this is a fight both guys have agreed to from all understanding. Right now, the negotiating point is the date.

I know Ariel Hawani reported that they're closing in on UFC 281 from the conversations I've had. That is what the UFC would like, although that is not 100% just yet. There are talks about maybe December. I know one party wants it to happen in December, but I think all in all, I think we're probably, we're past midfield. on MSG. I would say we're probably on like the 25-yard line

on it happening at MSG, but it might happen in December, who knows? That's the only sort of contentious point of this whole thing, but expect that fight to happen before the end of the year, which is very exciting. And we'll talk about whatever else you want to talk about. A couple things, just programming notes. One, right around 1030,

we will hear from one of the newest members, of the UFC roster of the UFC welterweight division, Billy Goff, who had himself quite the showing on Tuesday on Dana White's Contender Series. He set the table for what, in my opinion, was the greatest contender series card of all time coming off maybe the worst contender series card of all time the week prior. Billy Goff did the damn thing. This guy has like all the belts in New England.

Cage Titans Welterweight champion. He was the CES welterweight champion, then jumped up a weight class less than a month later and became the CES middleweight champion. The guy is like all the belts in New England. And now he has to sort of relinquish those titles because he's a UFC fighter now. So I'm excited to talk to him.

He should be jumping in around 10.30. Hopefully he is Twitter space savvy, and we can get him right in here without any issue. And I'll talk to him. And then, you know what? I'll bring some of you in to talk to him as well. if you would like to ask Billy Goff some questions. But until then, let's hear from you.

Let's hear from the peeps. Let's hear from Four Corner Sports to get us started. Hello, are you there? All right, try again. One other thing you may have seen already on Twitter. If you're a fan of Between the Links, BTL, we're going to roll at noon Eastern. So less than two hours from right now,

we're going to go live on the MA Fighting YouTube channel for Between the Lengths. It's going to be Jed Mishu versus Damon Martin, a little MMA fighting versus MMA fighting battle. And the reason for that is Jorge Mazvedal's icon FC promotion is coming to Savannah, Georgia, which is about 20 minutes outside of where I live. So I'm going to go over to the Wayans today, which are at 5 o'clock, and then I'm going to go to the card tomorrow as well.

And it seems like for the first time ever, we might have ourselves a Mike Heck Jorge Masvedal interview, which I am very excited about. So that is why that is happening. We're calling it audible. We're switching things around. And that is the reason why. So we're going to try to make that happen.

It is being discussed all positive conversations. in making that happen. So stay tuned for that. Let's go to Sivaram. And then we'll go to Tristan, and then we'll go to wherever the hell else wants to talk before Mr. Goff gets here. Good morning.

I'm good. How are you? No, your opinion about the Fourier and Chandler. Who's going to win it? What's the probability? I think I'm going to lean towards with Dustin. But Dustin has to, you know, he has to, you know, he has to.

to look out for the first round with Chandler, especially his explosiveness in first round. So if he can, whether that storm in first round, I think Dustin is going to win that fight. So what's your opinion on that? Thank you, sir. That's a great fight, man. Like, that would be, that's going to be one of those ones I'm going to have to think about until the fight actually happens. Like, I'll make my pick on the people's pre-fight show or on the preview show whenever that fight happens.

I would say right now I am leaning towards Chandler, but that could change. It's all going to, I will look at this from sort of a betting lines perspective because I think honestly, it's a 50-50 fight and I'll probably lean with honestly whoever the underdog is heading in because when I have to make picks on 50-50 fights, I tend to lean towards someone handing me $20 and I have to take that $20 and bet on somebody on a money line and I'll probably go with whoever the underdog is, which I think will probably be Chandler. Just trying to judge how that's all going to play out. But I think Chandler's wrestling, all that.

I think both those guys are super strong starters. It'll be interesting what happens if that gets into the later rounds, because we don't know if it's going to be a three-round fight or a five-round fight. That will also sort of depend on things. So TBD, but right now I lean Chandler. but I could be completely wrong but that opinion may change

dozens of times before that fight let's go to Tristan Hey Mike Hey buddy I want to talk about just announce I guess Amanda Hebaugh's versus Tracy Corpardez

that's set for December 3rd UFC card I'm very puzzled and very confused about this matchup because I don't know why Manda Hevas continues to stay at 125 and try to fight. I mean, to me, that's a mismatch for me because I think Tracy Cortez is much stronger. Not only that, your boyfriend is, well, he won't be able to, you know, help her train because his up because of shoulder and Brian Ortega.

But I would think he was going to, obviously, he's probably helping her to make sure that, hey, watch out for this, watch out for that. on the ground when she's because obviously that's Hebas's expertise in Brazilian Jiu-Tit-T. But I just, I don't understand why He-Boss is staying at 125. I wish she goes back down the straw way where she was having much success and try to build her way up back maybe to get a title shot. I mean, obviously I would want to see her against at some point McKenzie Dern, you know, and see that match up again.

I think they fought already, but I would like to see it again or so. I just, and I don't know, they should just, I don't know why they just should match, you see just match up Tracy Cortez and Aaron Blentfield. I want to see that fight for the second time. They fought in Victor. I want the rematch to happen. I just, I was very puzzled by this matchup. I mean, it's a long time from now.

It's December 3rd. But your thoughts about it, and I know you reported it with Steve Morocco, but just your thoughts about that matchup. Thanks, Mike. Thanks, buddy. I, I like it. I actually like the matchup because we have to remember, Amanda Hebas fought Caitlin Chukagan,

who doesn't lose to anybody outside of Jess Gondrage and Valentina Shropchenko. And there are still people who I talk to regularly who felt Amanda Hebas beat Caitlin Chukagin. And not, I mean, not only does Caitlin, like, win these fights, but, like, usually she, it's, I mean, I know she wins by split decision a lot, but she usually wins my decision anyways. And oftentimes you come out of a Chukagian fight and you're like, all right, she won. It wasn't like the most compelling, compelling fight of all time, but she won.

This was different. Hebas stepped up and gave one of the toughest fighters in this entire division some fits. And she had, she forced Chagian to work a little bit. And if you're Hebas, you're probably looking at things from, Because I think she could be ranked and have the same amount of success in either division, honestly. She's probably just looking at it as, okay, let's just stay active and fight and take whatever we can get right now. And if she's looking at her from, well, I want to go and fight for the title, the path at 125 is probably going to be quicker than 115. Like I know we have a lot of up-and-coming talent, but it's kind of a wide open field right now.

There is nobody in line right now to fights, Valentina Shvchenka. Now, I know Manon in Fioro is going to fight Chikagan in Abu Dhabi at UFC 280, which that card is absolutely redonculus right now. But what if Caitlin wins that fight? I don't think they're going to go to that well. I just don't. And I know I know Crystal's here. She's thinking to herself, Mike, no one's giving Tila Santos any credit here.

no one's talking about running this one back. How dare these people? But let me just say this. Tados Santos is a little banged up right now. Her eye is messed up. She's going to be out for a while. So she's not really in play right now. But she, I mean, she's certainly in the discussion.

She's probably going to have to wait one more fight to get back there. And, yeah, I mean, flywood, she's kind of wide open right now. Like, if a man to keep bus just goes out there and absolutely trucks, Tracy Cortez, which is saying a lot, she's probably a win away because she's very marketable and the UFC is going to try to put on the biggest fights in this division. Now I have said on this show,

and I'll say it again, there's another interesting player in this division that you don't know about that I have talked to. You've not seen that interview yet. It is coming, and it might surprise you a little bit, but it is someone who could get up to that spot real quick and really shuffle things up at 125.

I will say that, hopefully I could reveal that information next week, still waiting for the green light, because you got to deal with sponsors and things like that. But this division could get real interesting at the end of this year, maybe early next year. So stay tuned for that. Let's go to Bobby. And we'll go to Kyle and then we'll go to Torino. Bobby, how are you?

Bobby! Unmute. Can you hear me now? Now I got you. Sorry, buddy. I just wanted to get your quick thoughts on two matchups that came out this week. AJ McKee's going up to lightweight to fight Spot Carlisle. Do you think he's making mistakes?

Staying with Bell's where to fight the Spot Carlisles of the world. Then secondly, there was a report that Dustin Jacoby's linked with Khalil Roundtree. It's certainly a striker's delight. Not quite the Dominic Ray as a match-up, but what do you think about that fight? You have a heck of a morning. Thanks, buddy. I'll address the ladder first. Listen, it's a great fight

and you're never going to hear me complain about Dustin Jacoby fighting Khalil Roundtree. But Dustin Jacoby probably deserves better here. No disrespect to Kaliloh Roundtree because when Kalilil Roundtree shows up and he's on, he's a nightmare. But I really wanted to see Dustin fight Dominic Reyes. I thought that fight made perfect sense

because we're going to get answered. Like we're going to get answers to two very important. important questions. One, is Dustin Jacoby a player? Like a legit player in this division. Is he just a really fun guy that can hang in the bottom of the top 15? Or is Dustin Jacoby a guy who could not only compete in the top 10 or in the top five? Could this guy fight for a title? Because there's questions. People are like, people want to know how good this guy is and him fighting Dominic Reyes is perfect. And a lost to race doesn't hurt him all that much because it kind of puts him in the same position he's in right now.

And for Dominic Reyes, this is a perfect comeback fight against a guy who's streaking, who's real good, who's real tough. And if Dominic Reyes beats Dustin Jacoby, then it shows you that Dominic Reyes is not washed. He's still got some gas left in the tank. He's good to go. He can still take a punch. He can still take a kick. I feel like that was the perfect comeback fight for Dominic.

And it was a win-win. Because if Jacoby won, now you have some answers. You can move him up the division. And if Reyes won, that's a good confidence booster. And then he can move back up the rankings. And maybe we have a nice little comeback story. Either we're going to have a great comeback story. Either it's a Dustin Jacoby comeback story continues on or the Dominic Reyes comeback story begins.

And I love that matchup. I thought it made all the sense of the world. But we still got Jacobi versus Roundtree. That's going to be super fun. They're going to beat the brakes off of each other. And we're all going to win. We're all going to win. The Agent McKee thing, kind of going back to the last question and teasing things,

I did speak to Agent McKee yesterday. Hours after that announcement was made, he was kind of all over the place. I think he's happy that he gets to move to 155. I think he's a little bummed that he wasn't even offered. Because here's the thing, he wasn't even offered the pit bull fight, which is what he told me. pit bull fight wasn't even on the table which is really interesting because the fight card is in Long Beach

which is where AJ McKee is from it's his hometown why wouldn't you just book the title fights in his hometown? You remember how insane it was in Englewood which is not far from Long Beach the reaction, the excitement, the energy in the building that was the best

that was like the best Bellator crowd ever for that card Like the main event was really good. It was compelling. The storyline was great. There were questions. The energy was off the charts. Then maybe the second fight, maybe rub people kind of the wrong way.

It wasn't the most exciting fight of all time. I don't know. I'm kind of shocked. Especially considering Pipples' headlining against Adam Porch. It's just, it's kind of strange. But, AJ McKee, Spike Carl has a great fight. I think it's a perfect sort of test. for McKee because he gets to be a little more wily in there.

It gets to be a little looser. It gets to be a little more chaotic if he wants to be because that's how Spike fights. And if AJ is going to have success at 155, I think Spike Carlos is sort of the perfect test for him. And he also told me that he's walking around about 175, 180 right now. So it'll be interesting to see how his power translates. And I feel like Spike's actually the right opponent to sort of answer some of those questions because Spike's going to be in his face the whole time, and age is going to have the opportunity to prove whether or not that does translate at 155.

So I like the booking. I like the matchup. It's interesting. I just feel having Pitbull on the same card is a little weird and not having them fight each other. But I'm not a matchmaker. So who the hell am I? All right. Kyle, Torino, James, and then we'll go to the Dean.

Kyle, how are you? Unwrap Holiday Magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you from festive and cozy fashion to luxe beauty and fragrance sets. Our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. It's hockey season and you can get anything

you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes.

Because those are groceries and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Of course, Billy Goff joining us in about 15 minutes, so stay tuned for that. Kyle, are you there? Kyle. All right, try again. We'll get you in. I know you were there, but I heard nothing but static. Let's go to Torino.

Trino are you there? Yes, I am. Hi, how are you? good how are you sir i'm all right man excited thanks for hosting this space as usual man i just wanted to talk about i don't know if we're talking about the ultimate fighter i know that i think there wasn't a lot of hype about it this season but i'm actually looking forward to you i just wanted to get your take on the ultimate fighter i know that ozman's brother mohammed is fighting um and also the the flyweight female finals and um yeah i wanted to get your take on the ultimate fighter what you think about generally do you think it's something that the UFC need to look at because I really know that

there was not a lot of hype about it this season also the main event this weekend is super exciting I'm looking forward to Jamal Hill and Santos I just wanted to get your take reading on the ultimate fighter because I enjoy it but I don't know I just didn't see a lot of hype about it this season thanks buddy yeah I've talked about tough on this program a few times I understand the need for a show like this. I understand this is the opportunity to introduce a new talent and all of that. The problem is the show, the concept, all of it sucks. It sucks.

It's not fun. The fights are cool, but we have the contender series. And if you're going to give me a choice between the Ultimate Fighter and the Contender series, guess what? Ultimate Fighter is going to lose every single time. problem with the ultimate fighter is not the show like it's the concept is okay it just is the same show it has been since the beginning i remember watching the first season of tough and i it was chaotic it was like the rules changed multiple times start the show it's like nobody understood it's not even

like the ufc didn't even understand like what they were doing but it actually made it more fun and it's the same show it's the same show it's the same show it's the same show So guys living in a house, girls living in a house. They fight each other. There's like one or two bad eggs in there. Some drink too much. Some don't drink at all. Some try to prank others.

Some try to prank the other people. Then they fight. Then there's an injury. Someone misses weight. Like there's some drama there. But we're still wearing the damn basketball jerseys. Like why are we still wearing the damn basketball jerseys? We're still doing the coaches challenge.

Like, come on, man. Like, you're going to like spread this out a little. little bit. We got to make this more interesting. It's not interesting. I didn't watch one second, and I watch everything. I watch regional fights all the time. I didn't watch one second of the ultimate fighter. I can't. I can't. I can't do it. I just can't. There's so much M.MA, and I just can't waste my time watching the ultimate fighter. Now, I will say, I am familiar with a lot of these fighters, even before they got on the show. Zach Poga, Muhammad Usman, is a guy I've interviewed many times over the years.

Juliana Miller is a very interesting cat. Brogan Walker's a good fighter. Cool. Like, I just wish we could do more at it. I don't even know how to fix it. I don't even know how to fix it. Remember, there was all this talk about doing Mazdaal and Colby coaching. Like, even that wouldn't have helped it, honestly.

It just would probably would have made it worse. I will say I am somewhat intrigued above the Tony Ferguson, Beb idea, having them as coaches. I would probably watch that. I would at least tune in and give it a chance. Just Nunes and Pena just didn't do it for me. No offense to them. They're just, I don't know. It's just not for me. There's something you could do there. I haven't put my finger on how to fix it, but there's something we can do to fix it and make it more compelling and make it more

fun. And we just haven't found it because the same damn show it has been for 20 years. let's go to Kyle. Let's see if we can get them in here. Kyle, we got you. How are you? Hey, it connected to my truck across the other side of the yard over here. That's why I couldn't speak earlier. But I got a quick one for you.

I was just wondering if you heard anything about the UFC coming back to Boston. Good question. I would love to have an answer for you. I don't. I don't have one right now. Maybe we get a, I think from what I've heard, now, I will say this, because I know Ariel talked about it before

and I've talked about it here. Next week's card was supposed to be in Boston. Not San Diego, it was supposed to be in Boston. It was all but done. When the fighters who are on the card were told about this card were offered fights for this card, they were told it was going to happen in Boston. Then the Veracruz news came out

and it got shifted to San Diego. I like that it's in San Diego. It makes more sense that it's in San Diego. But Boston was the location for this card. Well, it wasn't 100%, but 99.5%, it was a Boston card, and then it just suddenly switched. My gut, from conversations I have had, I don't know the 100% answer to this question. I would say somewhere in the first half of 2023, we will get a Boston card. Or that's the plan, but nothing done yet.

I would say boss will probably be back in play. from what I've heard, I wouldn't stun me if Chicago is back in play in 20203, but nothing is done, nothing is set, no dates are set, but from what I understand, those two cities in particular, outside of where they usually go, those two are being discussed for 2023. I don't think we'll get a Boston card this year. It could be wrong. Maybe something pops up and there's a date open,

but I think at this point, maybe they do one more fight night card outside of the APEC, but I think the UFC's going to stick around the apex for the majority of the rest of these unless they go international. But I don't think they'll go to Boston this year unless something crazy happens between now and the end of the year. But I'd say first half of 2023,

there's a possibility. It's being talked about, I will say that. James, let's bring you in. What's up, buddy? With a Dustin and Chandler, kind of targeted for November or December, do you think we'll get a quote true-on-true

co-min event for the Nate Diaz card, or do you think that card is probably going to be what it is? And do you think we might get three title fights for the New York card? I've seen rumors that they would like to

do the light heavyweight rematch there along with Izzy and Pereira. And I know with kind of the Asian market in New York. I kind of thought maybe they might try to do a carlo Asparza and Wang. And Kamara Usman, I know there's talks that he might go up to the 205. It's just Usman classic trolling us, kind of like him of boxing Conno. Does like to hear your thoughts on all that. And like always, Mike, thank you.

And have a heck of a morning. Thanks, buddy. New York's interesting. three title fights, I don't think you need it, especially because part of the discussion right now for Porre Chandler is that they want this to be a five-round fight. So I don't think you're going to do three title fights and then another five-round fight because that's just a lot. That's just a lot of, that's just a lot. So I would say probably two, it wouldn't stun me if it's Izzy Pereira, Yuri, Glover, two. in the main and co-main and then if you get a new chain that quartering that card five-rounder i don't think you need a third title fight december will need title fights maybe that's where you do

carlo jeanway lee is a co-mate event or a third title fight and then we just kind of wait and see how everything plays out as far as 279 goes i honestly have no clue what's going to be the co-main event i would guess i mean like i've said before i think we're going to have some sort of wishy wash some mish mesh, if you will, of welterweights in there. Like if they did, if they did Wonderboy Kevin Holland

on that card, like I think that would be a fine co-main event. That would work out just fine. And then if something happens, you could do Wonderboy Diaz, you could do Wonder Boy Shema. I mean,

I don't want to see Wonder Boy Shamaia, but you could do Holland Shamaif. You could do Holland Diaz. Like some of those I hate, some of them aren't bad, but at least you have a backup plan in place. And I think Hall and Wonderboy makes sense. Both guys seem to want it.

And yeah, it's in play. I don't know where, like I know Gilbert wants to fight Mazadol. I don't know if that happens in November. Maybe it does. I don't know. We'll see. But my guess will be some sort of welterweight fights in that spot. But it's got to happen quick because we're running out of time here.

where like just over a month away from that card happening. So we'll see. Again, that card doesn't need help because that main event's going to carry it, but I think you just need to have a co-main with some sort of backup in place in case something weird happens, which with those two guys, something weird could definitely happen.

Milo! Oh, Mike. Hello. It's a thick of a morning here. How are you? It is. Good. Great, great. You know, I want to maybe address a couple of points here.

You know, I agree with you about the TAF, right, kind of being maybe an outdated commodity. You know, because back in the days, a TAF was built on the concept of Jersey Shore, right? Like, Jersey Shore was booming and there was a need for reality show. And the UFC thought it would be a good idea to, you know, to make a reality show. But with fighting, right? nowadays it's kind of a dated concept and I think it should graduate unless we're going to see something like Kabib versus Tony Ferguson. Yeah and I want to maybe address a situation with what happened with the Denowite Contender series after week one, you know, with a bossman calling for more action, for more, you know,

chaos and earning the opportunity, you know, in a, he said it in a very strong fashion. And I think, you know, I think it had a good, you know, effect in terms of the social media, with having like a temporary, temporary surge, you know, then a white contender series trending. But I also feel like it had an adverse effect, which is not helpful to the MMA community, in that we saw in the last UFC fight night where we, in the UFC card,

where we saw multiple stand-ups, right? Like now the referees are not giving the opportunities to work for the fighters to work on the ground. There were stand-ups, like from the half-guard, you know and I think that's kind of the you know that's one of the adverse effects that happens another one that happened is I think with the Marshall versus Matthews situation is that this fight should have been stopped and instead what we're seeing is that you know the referee is giving more opportunities for the fighters you know to incur the damage which I think is not helpful for their

health and I think it's not good for the you know fighters themselves and for the public because you know I've been watching the sport for you know over 20 years and I remember the times when the commentators used to say that fighter safety is a paramount, right? And now there's a call for more violence and I think it's not, and it's not good for the sport. You know, that's all the points that I have to say

and curious to see what you think about that as well and have a heck of a morning. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, I mean, I get it. It's a fine line with the stoppages and the refereeing and stuff like that because just remember all the controversy on Saturday. Derek Lewis faceplants that he pops up and the world is about to end because Tandan stepped in maybe too soon and everyone with bananas and, you know, maybe sometimes like, like a lot of the referees, they don't really answer to different things.

Like I think Mark Goddard is like the gold standard when it comes to being an open book about refereeing because if there's something that's controversial that happens in his fights, he will always come online in some way, shape, or form to. respond to it, to answer to it. If you make some mistake, comes on Twitter and says I made a mistake. If he missed something, he will be the first one to tell you that. And that doesn't happen all that often with a lot of these guys. And it's a tough spot to be in. I loved the card. There were certain points where fights could have been stopped.

They went on and referees got a lot of credit and a lot of praise for that. I agreed with everyone getting contracts. my one thing was and I don't want this to seem like disrespectful because I thought the fight was great. I thought the performance was great. One thing the contender series hasn't done a lot of the last couple of years is they haven't done the developmental deals. I loved the developmental deals. They did it with Chase Hooper. They did it with Greg Hardy.

They did it with William Knight and some others. And there's nothing wrong with getting a developmental deal. All they're saying is, hey, we want you to fight under contract for us, but we feel like you need a little more seasoning, want to make sure you are ready to go, what it is time to make that Octagon debut? And I feel like Francis Marshall was like the perfect candidate for a developmental deal.

He looked great. I'm not mad that he got a contract because good on him. You got a freaking contract. Like, that was a great performance. Connor Matthews is a tough son of a bitch. And he went out there and he beat up Connor and won the fight. Like, it was great performance.

But if we're going to do a developmental deal, I felt like Francis was the perfect guy, because that's good for fight pass viewership as well. You throw them on a CES card, you throw them on an LFA card, Titan FC, wherever. And if Francis feels like, I want to fight in the UFC, but maybe I'm not quite ready yet, he could fight as, like,

I remember talking to William Knight, loved the developmental deal. He said that was the best thing that ever happened in this career, because he could just go fight as much as he wanted. Like, if the U.S. He fights in the UFC and then has to wait five, six, seven months to fight, like that doesn't do him any favors. Like if he goes out and fights in his debut and loses,

like he's got to wait. He can potentially wait like seven, eight months to get back in there. When you have these developmental deals, you can fight as much as you want. William Knight loved it. He would go fight for CES and then he'd go fight for CFC and then you go back to CES and he would just fight as often as possible. And he loved it. And it got him ready.

And he got some wins in the UFC because of it. So good on Francis for getting the contract. If they developmental dealed him, I wouldn't have, I've had any issue with that. Just because I think he's really good. I think he's really talented. He's a little raw. And I think a guy with that kind of talent, but with that rawness, give him a couple more wins in the regional scene under contract. And there you go.

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress.

Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross-Training Treadplus at OnePeloton.ca. When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. At just $39.99.

How could I resist? This luxurious wool throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss? Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting.

Winners find fabulous for less. But it was the, I mean, as a contender series, as Mark myself, it was the best episode of the contender series I have ever seen. And one of the reasons for that was the man who kicked things off with a first-round stoppage. Things got a little hairy, but in classic Billy Gough style, he came back. He weathered the storm.

And now he's a UFC welterweight. So let us say hello to one Billy Gough, who is kind enough to join us right now. Just go ahead and unmute yourself, Billy. And we are good to go. How are you, Matt? Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So, newest member of the UFC Walterweight roster, how does that all sound?

Has it even sort of sunk in yet? 48 hours or so later? It is not fully sunk in. It's still so weird. It's like, yeah, like, I was just talking about my coach today. I could be in the video game soon. Is that crazy? Because you may not even have been thinking about that six months ago.

No, I wasn't. It's so weird. It's wild, man. Yeah. I mean, I remember probably like 2017, 2018. You were like just getting rolling as an amateur. And people kept telling me, like, you got to watch out for this Billy Gough guy. You got to watch off for this Billy Gough guy.

And I remember watching your amateur run. You were getting finishes. I went to one of your fights. I think it was the Steve Morel fight. You went out and finished him in the second round. I'm like, all right, this dude's good. And then you kind of like, I feel like you're one of the guys who really have paid your dues. Like a lot of guys when they get the hype that you got,

You suffer a loss, maybe two losses. You see guys just kind of catapult down, but you took that as fireman, and you bounced back and you were on this incredible tear right now. What did you take away from the two pro losses to Cameron, to Jonathan Pico? What has sort of led to everything clicking for you the way it is right now? The biggest thing that I took away from those was doing the right things outside of fighting to set myself up the best I can in fighting. just pretty much dedicating myself more,

like more of my mental space, more of, and I was already dedicating so much, like all of, like I was turning down jobs and only taking jobs that I could work while training. But it's, I just had to take it even more serious than I was already. And I stopped being vegan because it just wasn't helping.

I was a 155 or fighting at 170. the so it was just i had to take it a lot more serious i had to get if i wanted to really do this and if i wanted to make a good run at it uh i had to treat it like it was my number one priority yeah what a run it has been i mean December 2020 get the win in bell at war that you're beat sean lally who's you know a veteran in new england mma and then just this this run of winning like i said the beginning of the show all the belts you're just winning all the belts in new England. You win the Cage Titans Walterweight title, you win the CES

Walterweight title, and then less than a month later later you win the CES middleweight title. What has this run been like for you? Like, just seeing what you've done since December 2020, winning all the New England titles, all the major titles, and now you're in the UFC, I mean,

is this just a blur to you right now? It is like, a lot of it is very much like just all smashed together, just go, go, go. Like, it's just been so busy. and like outside of fighting too like working I bought I bought a house so that was making even life even more busy so everything's just been go go go and but it's been a lot of fun and I'm really grateful for it because it's it's opened up a lot of doors and now I'm even

closer to my dream I'm in the UFC so are you going to are you going to keep working outside of the octagon or are we going to are we just going to focus a hundred percent on fighting now um once i set my so i got to figure out um because even though i'm in the ufc the it doesn't pay enough to exactly quit my job so once i figure out i've got a couple of things i'm trying to figure out so i can set myself up to do that like if i get some good sponsors then yeah i could definitely i want to quit my job and just train full time that's the goal what are you doing for work right now outside of fighting if you don't mind me asking So I work at electric boat.

It's a company that builds submarines. I'm an electrical draftsman. Oh, damn. That's fun. No, it's not. Some jobs in it are fun, but my job isn't that fun because it's just mundane. So, yeah, that's, that's funny, man. Let me, that fight with Shemar was absolutely insane on Tuesday.

Like I said, it was sort of a class. classic Billy Gough fight where, you know, you had to maybe get hit a little bit. Then you're just like, F this, here we go. And it was just a crazy fight, man. So like you're in the apex. You're in that building. You're making the walk. Did it feel different?

Like how would you describe, you know, just everything from the walk down there to the craziness of the fight to the finish? How would you describe it? The walk felt a little different, definitely, because they're like standing back behind those doors before they're doing. a live, doing the video and everything. That was weird. I felt different there.

Beforehand, like, warming up and everything, didn't feel all that different. Being in the apex, didn't feel that different. Being in the cage didn't really feel too different. But the walk definitely felt different. The whole weekend leading up to it felt different, too, just because I was out in Vegas the whole time. So it was cool, though. I don't think it put too much pressure on me.

nothing that I noticed at least but it it was it was definitely and then it all hit me afterwards afterwards it kind of all settled in like oh man like yeah this is really seeing Dana White was weird

it's like I've seen you on TV for fucking years now so but it was cool I enjoyed it did you feel like 100% confident that you were getting a contract after that finish yeah I wasn't worried like somebody asked me

if I was like, oh, seeing all the other good fights. Personally, I'm not going to name any names. I don't think all of them should have gotten the contract just because, like, some of them weren't. I wasn't as happy. Like the, fuck, I'll say it anyways. The third, which fight was it? It was, no, the fourth fight, the guy, he knocked him out with a hook.

All he was throwing was fucking wide hooks. The flyway fight? Yeah, he was good. Like, he was athletic. He had some swagger to him. So I get why they signed him. He was exciting to watch. But, man, he just threw hooks.

Like, just big, open, wide hooks. And if the other dude knew how to throw a jab or, like, roll his two into a going Southpaw, that would have changed the fight. I think the other kid was better. It just, the other guy had his number. But it was a, yeah, I wasn't too worried about it.

Because, I mean, worst case scenario, I don't get that. That's kind of, I was worried about not getting a contract going into this. I was like, oh, I got to have some flashy knockout. It's got to be some crazy fight. But that kind of settled down. I was like, worst case scenario, I don't get the contract. I just take a short notice fight. Yeah, I was wondering, because I was wondering, like, what your mentality was heading in

because the week prior, only one contract was given. Dana White gave the 22 version of the, the, do you, want to be an effing fighter speech. So I was wondering, and you were the first guy. You were the first guy getting in there for the first fight after that whole speech. We're like, you're going to show me on Tuesday night. I don't care we each of the last five years. Tuesday nights, all that matters. Did you feel any extra pressure coming off that first week? No, not at all. And like that, when he gave that speech prior, I don't know if he has, if he heard anything about it. But Dana White gave a speech to all the fighters before the show started talking about,

like you got to show up here and you got to go out there and you got to go for a finish show that you want to be here and all this shit shit um and i just i don't care like i you can say all that it doesn't matter to me because i show up to fight no matter what i'm here to fight i don't fight for you i don't fight for anybody else i fight i just fight so it's going to be the same every time there you go so have you even thought about because i mean it was a crazy fight you were wearing wearing it a little bit have you thought about when you want to debut do you think we'll get in there before the end of the year? What are we thinking right now?

Oh, absolutely. I wanted to get there. I was, it sucks that I got suspended because I wanted to try to hop on the 20th card just to have a quick turnaround because that'd be cool. But now I'm suspended so I can't. But, yeah, I definitely want to get on a card before the end of the year. So I just got to talk to my coaches, talk to my manager, and we'll figure shit out. there we go uh have you been eyeballing the division have you thought about like what kind of

makes sense i'm sure you don't give a shit who you're fighting but uh is there anybody that kind of sticks out to you where it's at least like i think this would just be a fun ass fight no disrespect let's just get in there and throw hands see it's weird because i don't know exactly like the like i have to look for somebody outside like that's not ranked obviously um so i've got to go and look at more people now. I've got to like scan the division more. And so I don't, I don't have any names right now.

I don't know who I fight. But hopefully someone good. On a good show. Is there like, is there like a quote unquote, I made it fight for you where you know like you're doing the right things? Like if I get matched up with this guy at some point, like I know I'm doing it right. Is there sort of like a,

I don't know if dream matchups what I'm looking for, but it's just somebody that stands out that just like, At someday, at some point during my UFC career, I got to fight this, dude. I don't know. No, I don't have one of those yet because it's the division. I mean, I want to say, like, Kamar Usman, but Kamar Usman's the champ. Everybody wants to fight him. So, and it's a little ridiculous since I haven't even fought in the UFC to say that.

Yeah. But, and things are constantly changing. He's not going to have the belt by the time I get there. He'll be retired. So I don't know. I got to just, I got to figure that, figure that out. Fair enough, man. So there are people waiting.

Give a little hand emoji if you want to ask Billy a question. See if we can get a couple of people in here that want to ask the newest member of the World to Weight Division something. And if not, we will let you go, my man. And, all right, we'll bring Tristan in. He has a question. Go ahead, Tristan. You got, you got Billy Goff here.

Hey, Billy. A quick question. Coming out of that fight, you were, like, very disappointed, kind of down on yourself because of the mistakes. The reason why you were saying that, was that because you're like, this can't happen once I start fighting the elite fighters of the UFC. Was that your thought process and the reason why probably the reason why you had said that? Yeah, absolutely.

That's exactly what it was. Like, it's, I can get away with this now, but I can't, I won't be able to. able to get away with that when I'm fighting for the belt. It's not going to cut it. So if I want to be the best in the world, that can't happen. All right. Trino, you got a question for Billy? You got on mute, man.

Yeah. Hi, Billy. Well done with the contract. Nice one. I'm really proud that you were able to get to the UFC. I was looking forward to this round of contender series. After the first week of Dinah White pulling out his hair, or Denowice doesn't have hair.

You know, but you know what I mean. After the first. How dare you, Trino? Don't be, don't be making ball jokes, dude. Don't be making ball jokes. Look at my picture.

You know that I'm talking to myself also. Continue on. Yeah. So, Billy, what I wanted to ask you was, of course, you're coming into the World War II class.

What do you think about the division itself? You know, I know my brother, Kamor Rusman, is fighting Edwards, August 20th. Kobe's there, you know, you have the likes of Gilbert Burroughs.

What's your take generally on this show, on your new division? It's stacked. It is a stacked division. Don't even go out. You got guys like Wonderboy who isn't even, they aren't even in the top five. Like, it is a stacked division for sure.

I don't know which one. It's either the Walterweight division or the 145 division on. which one's the stacked, like which one's the most stacked. They're both tied. Now that I'm here, you could say it's 170. There you go. Good answer.

Oh, man, Ahid's got the wave going on. Let's see. Ahedeed, you got takes, my man? Yeah, Billy, amazing fight. I just wanted to ask you, you know, like, right at the start of the fight, obviously, like, you know, it was starting a bit shaky with the head kick. And I wanted to ask, like, what was your, like, mental thought process during that time because fighters talk about heart all the time and

fighting through it, but obviously there's like has to be some thought behind it as well to keep yourself safe. And I was just wondering like, what was your thought process during that sequence to keep yourself safe so you could eventually end up landing the fight ending blows? The biggest thing was just listening to my coaches. I try not to think as much like I try not to process everything, not so much process everything, but try not to like focus and analyze as much. I try to just focus on what my coaches are hearing because what my coaches are saying, because they, they're not rocked right now. They can see from outside the cage. So they've got the best view on it. And I just try to listen to them. That's honestly what I try to do the most

in those situations. All right. We'll take, we'll take one more and I'll let Billy enjoy the rest of his day. Milo, you got one for Billy? Yes, Hegelie, congratulations on your performance, you know, a great fight. So, yeah, you know, I'm in the business of matchmaking, you know, I like matchmaking, and I'm just curious, what do you think about the prospects of fighting somebody, like, let's say, Blood Diamond, for instance. So I've heard of him. I have not watched him fight yet, so, but I'd be willing to fight anybody. So that's about all I can say

Because I don't know I know of him But I don't I haven't watched him fight yet There you go Billy, thank you my man Congratulations on the contract Looking forward to see you in there Sometime before the end of the year

Great fight, great performance This run you're on is absolutely incredible And way to stand up for New England My man Way to put New England on the map even further I appreciate you the time And congrats again my man Hell yeah

Thank you for having me man All right there he is. Billy Goff, the newest member of the UFC Walterweight division. First time we had

like a live sort of planned interview on the show. So we'll figure out yeah, that was good. And thanks for everybody who had questions as well.

We'll take a couple more calls and then we're going to get out of here because I get ready for BTL, which is going to be happening early here. Nadim, you are up. How are you? I'm doing well,

my friend. How are you this morning? I'm good. So just to kind of go back on that take earlier with that Bell Tour and AJ, just because I love AJ, is one of my favorite fighters in MMA. I was thinking that they maybe didn't make that pit bull fight because after that last one, I mean, he thought he won, and I thought he won.

He wanted to go up to 55 and, you know, maybe they thought, you know, he would beat Pippel again and then just relinquish that 45 belt, and that just probably doesn't look good and just complicates things for them. So they're just like, you know what, we'll just, you know, have you go up to 55 and just, you know, keep you here. but that's my take, you know, I want to see what you thought on that. And also, what's your take on that Ashkar v. Roival fight?

I saw that announce, and I was super, super excited about that, and wanted to kind of see what your take was on that, as well as on the main event. Cool. Okay. Yeah, Roy Val Ascaroff is a really interesting fight. I got to say, like, I didn't, I mean, I like it. It's interesting.

It makes sense. It's probably the most sensical fight you can make for a matchmaking perspective for Roy. Royval, but, God, Royval's just, like, so fun. And, like, Ascroft can be fun, but he's just, he's very technical. He's, he's a good fighter. And he's always not, he's not the most, like, reliable guy to, like, put pen to paper and then show up that night.

Like, things just always seem to kind of happen with Ascrop. But, again, he's been pretty active as of late. And I like the fight. There's also a part of me that wanted the Medell Cap fight. for Brandon Royval. I just wanted to see that one, but I understood from like a rankings perspective, it didn't make a lot of sense.

But I feel like at 125 in particular, you can almost throw the rankings out the window because like two wins and you're kind of in a great spot anyhow. But yeah, it's a good fight. It's very interesting. And I'm very fascinated by it if we're being honest. Now, as far as the AJ thing goes,

I go back to when Patricio dumped the belt. and I understand why he did that because he wanted to give his brother an opportunity but like wait wait a little bit like you could have done

you could have just done the second fight at 155 and it would have made a lot of sense given the chance AJ of the chance to win the second title so I didn't understand like the thought process in that outside of like

I just didn't get it and let's just say he didn't do that you could have still done this fight at 155 would have been just as big of a deal. So, I mean, we'll see what happens. Like, AJ told me that when, win or lose, if Patricio beats out of Borch or he doesn't, AJ is still open to dropping to 1.45 one more time

to, uh, to quote, whoop his ass. So even if there's a title in line, title's not on the line, he wants that third fight with Patricia. He's willing to go back to 45 one last time to do it. And this is not like, this is not like 100%. it doesn't seem that way, at least from what I got for him. It's not like he's not coming out and saying I'm 100% a lightweight fighter now.

He's just saying, I'm going to give this a shot. We'll see how everything translates. We'll see how my power, my speed, my range. We'll see how it all translates. And I feel like Spike Carlisle is the absolute perfect opponent here for this debut because Spike is going to get hit and he's going to keep going. It's really tough to put that guy away. And I feel like we're going to see if that power translates.

We're going to see if that speed translates. All that athleticism that he brought to the table 145, now that he's filling out and he's getting a little bit older, about to start his athletic prime. Let's see how that translates. And if he can go out there and just bolt Spike Carlisle, then you have some answers. You have some answers.

And I saw people giving AJ some crap about spite him fighting a non-ranked guy. Like, are you kidding me? Spike's a UFC vet. He's in crazy fights all the time. The guys won five fights in a row. He's finished all five of them since he left the UFC. see like I think this is a good fight like this is a perfect fight

for the 155 debut we're gonna do throw them in there with Usman or Magamadov like that's like the dumbest thing in the world why would you do that now why would you either kill off AJ as a potential title challenger or kill off a surging prospect right now

when it makes absolutely no sense let's give him a fight get his feet wet against a tough dude and in the Bellator rankings let's be honest just go look at him just go look at him that's all I need to say

Take a few more here. Tocke, Tabs. We'll go back to Aheed because I know he wants to do his Aheed thing. And then Brent, we'll go to you. Tok, what's up, buddy? A quick question first. Are you a glass half-fold guy or a glass-half empty guy? I think you know by now I'm a pretty positive dude.

Yeah. The setup for this is that I find myself to be kind of a glass-half empty guy, at least when it comes to Roberto Saldage. because I feel like we are missing out on a bunch of good matchups with him because he went to one. I know we can do a lot of fun things with him in one, but it seems like, yeah,

he can get kickboxing titles and MMA titles and all that, but honestly, this seems like he would have done so many great things in the UFC and I'm just kind of bummed out. Can you kind of, with your positive glasses, can you kind of talk me into how this is a good thing for us?

Well, I mean, to be positive, he's going to fight people and he's probably going to fight RDR at some point, which is awesome. So I'm excited for that. That's a really compelling fight. Here's the thing, man. And I've told you guys this from the second this show started because Soleditch has been a very popular topic here. I said that I would have been stunned if he signed with the UFC.

and the reason it is having because I I wasn't like I don't have the contract in front of me I don't have like the offer officially but from what I understand KSW offered Soldeach like insane money like ridiculous money

like drop everything you're not a free agent anymore kind of money and the fact that one has signed him told me that they they just don't give any F's about money because they must have paid him a lot. Because the KSW offer, from what I understand, I did have like specific figures. It was a holy shit number.

And to me, legacy mattered, but not as much as the bank account. Legacy don't pay the bills. Legacy don't retire you. Legacy doesn't buy a vacation house or two vacation houses. It's probably now four sold each. And legacy matters. but it ain't paying the bills. So while we may not get Soldich versus

Vicente Lucke or Usman or any of these fun matches you could have got at 170, I don't think Sol just really cares at this point. I think he's going to dry those, any legacy talk, if he sat about legacy, he could dry his tears with hundos,

with those Ben Franklin's, those $100 bills. And I think that's the main thing for him, setting himself up for life. And that's it. That's it. There's no way. Like, when I heard,

heard the potential of this KSW offer, there was no, I felt like the UFC had no chance to sign him. I felt like the UFC just kind of felt to fourth on the old ranking system because I just don't, like even if the UFC thought very highly of him, even at their best offer for a guy that's just coming in with a lot of hype, like even if they offered him like what they offered Yuri Perashka to come in,

there's no chance they're coming close to what KSW was. from what I understood had offered him. So I felt the UFC was out of it altogether. I felt like Bellator had a better chance of the UFC, but they were kind of out of it. PFL, I thought, was kind of in play because of the million dollar price tag, but it ain't guaranteed money.

And I just felt like one is, it's kind of weird to see it and say it out loud. But when you think about one and you think about some of the contracts they have out there, I don't think Soleditch is just the highest paid guy on the roster but the guys who are the highest paid on the roster are making just they're making F you money and I think Solditch is probably on the

I don't know if he's on the Mount Rushmore of highest paid guys than one but I bet he's in the top 10 I would say he's probably in the top five to seven at at worst and that's a good chunk of change right there so yeah we're a little disappointed and his fans. They're not going to get some of these dream matches. But who knows?

Like Solditch is still a relatively, this might not be the final contract he ever signs. Maybe he'll just go in there and just run rough shot. Maybe he's just like, got a couple of years there. Maybe the UFC will bring him back. We'll give him another chase. He's 27.

He's 27. He's 27. He's got time. Maybe three years when he's like smack dab in the middle of the prime. We'll, uh, maybe Usman won't be on the table, but some other ones could be. Let's go to Taubs. Smith.

Are you there? You got on mute. Oh, my bad. My bad, Mike. How are you doing? Good. How are you? I actually had a question for Billy, but I didn't come through.

But it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. So about UFC 280, I just wanted to know which. match were you looking for the most I mean it's a hold that one second all right I'm back

yeah yeah do multiple things at once it needs to do I mean it's the main event clearly it's got to be the main event love it it's the most intriguing fight

of the year in my opinion Oliver versus Mockachev like this is the one right this is the one we've all been talking about it's the one we've been looking forward to this is the fight, right? This is the one.

This one's going to answer all the questions. So it's that one, but I mean, the whole, I mean, good Lord. Just go look at the card on paper. It's insanity. It's absolutely insane. And godly, I'm just looking at it. I'm a little mesmerized by this card because you got the two title fights. Muhammad Brady's interesting.

Yad O'Malley, super fascinating. Darryush Gamrott's great. Rodriguez-Laymosh is good. We get Shagan for Euro. Mahama Mahayefs on this card. I mean, good. Grief. This could be the best one of the year.

So let's get excited for that. Let's get my friend Crystal in here. And then you're going to close the show, my man. Crystal, how are you? Crystal, are you there? Oh, we lost her. Maybe that was an accident? I don't know.

All right. Ahead. Get after it, my man. What did I want to talk? I wanted to talk about Ferguson Hooker, right? Obviously, there's been rumors of that fight happening. And I wanted to know whether you think that is this last chance saloon for either one of them, or is the second to last chance saloon?

Like, they lose this, one more, they're done, retirement or cut. Because the thing is, there's something that infuriates me about MMA fans and media is they want a fighter's fighter. They want someone that fights anytime, any place, anywhere. And it's like, okay. but then you finally get that. Like Marlon Marais, for me, I want to cry for the dude.

He has had the roughest time and everyone's just always done, this and that. And I'm just thinking, Tony Ferguson, Dan Hooker, have had the hardest schedule out of all the lightweights combined. It's so poor how this is all played out.

So that's the first. The second, I just want to say, I've changed my stance on fighter pay. I'm no longer supporting the lower level, like early prelims, prelims people who are demanding higher pay. mainly because of this, you're not contributing that much to the company. You could have gone elsewhere if you wanted to, like Bellator, 1, you chose to come here

because of the brand, okay, and because it opens up more opportunities. I know Billy Goff was here talking about how hard it is, and I respect that, I'm sympathetic, but I'm sure he also knows, like the UFC is different. And I think that brand adds more value, hence the slightly lower pay. And people aren't going to like that because people are going to know, no, how day. you fight a pay fight a pay but no the fact is early prelims prelims the fact is there's people on the toilet that won't watch the fights because they're taking a break so i i feel like that's i'm taking that stance with fighter pay and that's all i've got for you today mike thanks man

yeah i mean your first topic's an interesting one it's i don't know man the ferguson thing's is so interesting if you fights hooker like i'm in for that fight like that fight makes sense like That's just a fun fight. It's just fun. Let's just get these two wily vets in there to throw hands, and they're both in sort of similar spots, and I don't think either will get released. I think we're okay.

I think we're okay if we booked that one. And listen, I agree with the second part of your question as well. I look at the UFC as what the WWF was in the 1980s. They, WF was, they were the gold standard. They were, like, when you thought of wrestling, when you're like, oh, do you watch wrestling? Like, do you watch MMA? Do you watch UFC? Like, they think UFC is MMA.

And they think WWF was wrestling. There weren't other promotions out there. But WWF never paid, like, they had big stars that made lots of money. Hulk Hogan, Warrior, et cetera. But just listening to old interviews and stuff, WAA would promise people, hey, we can't guarantee you this money. What we can guarantee you is an opportunity. to get yourself over, and if you do, then you can make a lot of money.

And that's kind of where they're at right now, where Billy just kind of said the same thing. Like most back of the day, back like five years ago, six years ago before the company was sold, a lot of fighters would be under the, like, wow, I made it to the UFC. Like, I can quit my job. I can quit both my jobs. Like, I can just be a fighter. But then we realized it just looks way different now, doesn't it? the company sold for $4.2 billion in 2016.

At that point, that was the time for these fighters to come together and change everything. And they didn't do it. So now we're going to be left having these conversations forever. And it stinks. It stinks because we all know this. Like all of us who watch a sport, we all understand that these fighters should be making more money. We all know this. But we have to be honest with ourselves when it comes to why.

Now, the UFC could just be like, you know what, we're a great company and we're going to reward these guys and gals for putting their bodies on the line. When the fact of the matter is nothing has compelled them to do that in the first place. So why do it? They're making, I mean, they're just killing it right now. The UFC is killing it. They're making so much money. And they had their own venue. Like, they're crushing it.

Why do they need to change anything? Because no one fought for that change when they had the chance to. so like I hate to say this but I almost I kind of understand where Dana's coming from at a certain point because like you can't blame him like you had your chance you had your chance and it's a sport where and Joe Lozons talked about this for years when fighters talk about pay

they talk about pay for themselves they don't talk about it for everybody else because when you guys probably saw this a couple months ago where our union were ready to strike. We were ready to strike. It was everywhere. You couldn't avoid it. Box media was ready to strike.

All of our union members. And it wasn't because like, at least not for me, it had nothing to do with, well, I'm not making enough money. I'm not doing this. I'm not getting this. I've been very happy with them may find. They've treated me great for in a number of,

of ways, not just, you know, not just in terms of like paying the pay and what it's done for my family and some of the other perks that have come along with it. But also like they're letting me just do my thing. Like I put out an idea. Sometimes they have questions about it. Like this show. I threw this idea out there. They didn't really understand it at first. And then I was like, just let me try it. And I think there's something here. And because of you, you guys proved me right, which is great. But the big reason for the talk about striking was for the lower level guys, for the ones that come into the company,

they need to be making a livable wage. And that's what they fought for. It wasn't just for us. It was for everybody, especially for the entry level employees. That's what the whole thing was all about. And I'm not breaking down the fourth wall here because you can just go down and you just look up Vox Media Union or Vox Media Strike and you could read the damn thing.

so you can see it for yourself. But again, like, the whole thing scared the hell out of me, but because of the camaraderie and what everybody wanted, we were willing to walk up, we were willing to walk away. And the fighters didn't do that. They don't have that camaraderie. And that's why we're not going to, that's why nothing's going to change. It's just not going to.

And it sucks. But again, there's a lot of people to blame. You can place it wherever you want. the UFC could be great people and just pay them more if they're not going to because they don't have to. What's compelling them to do that? There's no threat of the fighters

to say, you know what? We're just not going to fight that. We're out of here. It's not going to happen. And that's the world we live in, unfortunately. All right. Con, you've been waiting for a minute. I'll go to you and then I've got to get out of here.

Darian, I will save you. You get to cut the line tomorrow. All right? I promise. Con Diggy, you're there. Hi, I have a question about the 155 division. You see the ones at the top, they fight only each other, and when some prospects come like we have seen with Islam Machaf,

the only one who wanted to step up and fight him was Darius. And after that, it didn't work out, but Darius is now again fighting another prospect, which is maybe even harder without all the hype. And the other ones are complaining about Islam not fighting a top five, but yet they're still fighting each other. Like now Chandler and Porey and maybe Justin Gigi wouldn't fight Fiziv and wait for Connor.

And then they have their spots for them at the top. And yet, how are we going to do with the new prospects? a lot of prospects at 155, but yet we can test them because the ones at the top, they don't want to fight each other but themselves. Yeah, and that's, that's a, that's a, it's kind of an issue, 155. It's, 155 is the best division in the sport. It's the best division in the sport. It's not even close.

It's not even close. And I was, I was one of the guys blowing, waving the flag for the Banimate Division as like the deepest division. and it might still be the deepest division, but the best division, I mean, this is not even a conversation. 155 is the best division. It's not even close.

135 might be like the Celtics team that won the championship. They didn't win it because of the big three. They won it because of the bench. They won it because of Eddie House and Brian Scalabrini and those guys coming off the bench doing damage. That's why the Tony Delks of the world.

That's why they won the championship. I mean, the big three certainly helped. They were freaking awesome. But at the same to be, it was the bench players it was the depth of the Celtics that helped them win that championship that's a band-in-way it is very top heavy but they're deep as hell the top like you can make an argument that 16 through 40 at 135 could be rent in some way form or fashion like you just that's just how deep this division is uh but 55 is just ridiculous and it's going to be a tough go gamrod i mean der a

gangster, man. The fact that he took this fight is just awesome. It's super interesting. It's a super interesting fight. But I also think that Darius is going to be, and I don't know if this is official. No one's really, I have no insight on this whatsoever, but you got to believe Darius is probably the backup for the title fight as well. Like if something happens with Oliver or Mokachev, Darius is probably getting the hot tag and he's going to go in and fight for the title. So he's probably been promised that he's the backup. There's probably some sort of thing in place where like if you go out there and win, you're the next guy. If Islam Makachev beats Charles Olivera and Benil Darius beats Matush Gamrott,

Darius is going to get the first title shot. No doubt about it. Now, the one thing that could kill this plan altogether is if Charles Olivaira beats his al-Machachev because I think we know collectively where this is going and it's going to Ireland and it's going to Cona-Megregor. you hate you don't want even if you don't want to admit it even if you're shaking your head and rolling your eyes right now you can't deny it that's what's going to happen if olivera wins but darius is still in a pretty interesting spot and who knows there's still some time between now in october something could happen and guess who's getting that first phone call if something does happen it has been ill derriush so unfortunate situation but still not in the worst place in the world but 55's just ridiculous Fzeev Gachi is a fight I have to see. I need to see that one. Throw that on MSG.

Probably the December card. I'm in. That could headline one of the fight night cards. That could be on the pay-per-view 100%. So sign me the hell up for that. It's just so loaded. And don't forget about our Montserucyan because that guy is a terror. And he's going to be the champion.

He's going to be the champion at some point. All right, I lied. I'm getting you in here, Darien. You've been patient. you've stuck around you're up hey mike the boston sweetheart i knew if i if i stuck around long enough that um you let me give it a go but in a very uh v h1 celebrity rehab kind of way this uh costa rockold is my most anticipated fight for the rest of the year how do you see that i just saw him i don't know twitter instagram the other day and i'm like can rockold go up to

two 65 and fight john jones next for his first fight but what do you think about that fight because I don't know. I can't get enough of the buildup to that one. Dude, I mean, I'm with you. Wow, the VH1 Celebrity Rehab comparison is hilarious. Listen, it's one of those fights where, like, you've seen video footage of Bigfoot. There's a piece of you that believes in Bigfoot. You don't think Bigfoot exists, but he might.

That's kind of what this fight is like to me. I it's one of those things where I just I'm not going to believe it until both guys are in the cage in the referee says fight they're just there's just so many like unlucky things so much weirdness that has happened between both of those guys that it's just one of those it's just one of those fights where I have to see it to believe it but if if both guys are in that cage and the ref says go I'm intrigued I I'm very curious to to see what Rockhold looks like. It's been a long time since he's fought. Costa is who he is. But he looked damn good. Like he lost him armvatory, but he looked pretty damn good in that fight.

That fight was awesome. And it's kind of an underrated classic, if you will. That fight deserves a little more praise. I hope it happens. I'd love to see it. I favor Paula Costa to win, but I just, I want to have,

I want to believe in it. I want to believe that it's going to to happen. Glass half full, right, Toke? Want to believe it's going to happen. But it's just one of those ones where especially these two guys, you look at their resume, fool me one, shame on me, fool me twice.

You know the damn cliche, the damn saying, I got it wrong. But that's it, everybody. Thank you all very much. I appreciate all of the calls. Big shout out to Billy Gough for joining the program. And you're the best. We'll be back tomorrow, 10 a.m.

Eastern. I'm going to give my voice a short break. And then top of the hour, we're going live on the MA Fighting YouTube channel, BTL, some MMA fighting, infighting, Jedmishu, Damon, getting after it.

The takes will be spicy. It'll be delightful. And then I'm going to head on over to Savannah for the weigh-ins for Icon FC4, Jorge Mazados promotion, and hopefully we get a one-on-one between Boston Mike

and Jorge Gamebred Mazdal. But until that, everybody, thank you very much. Have a great rest of the day. We'll see you at noon for BTL and have a heck of a morning. You have a podcast network.