MMA Fighting - HOAM | Sergei Pavlovich vs. Tom Aspinall, New UFC 295 Lineup Reaction

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

Jon Jones' injury led to Dana White's shocking annoucement this week that Jones will no longer fight Stipe Miocic in the main event of UFC 295, but now Sergei Pavlovich vs. Tom Aspinall will fight for the interim heavyweight title in the co-main event. Is it the more intriguing matchup than the original, and should it be for the actual title instead of the interim belt? On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck reacts to the UFC 295 shakeup, why Pavlovich vs. Aspinall is the more competitive fight, but also the hit the card takes not having Jones and Miocic fighting any longer, along with a positive way to look at the championship situation surrounding the fight. Additionally, topics include what a title in at UFC 295 does for Alex Pereira's legacy, Islam Makhachev knocking out Alexander Volkanovski at UFC 294, Tyson Fury vs. Francis Ngannou, and more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

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available now, only from Audible. It is Thursday, October 26, 2023, and it is indeed a heck of a morning, and it is a little bit earlier this morning. Thank you for joining us, obviously here in the MAA fighting Twitter space. You can hear the show in its entirety short thereafter on the MNA Fighting Podcasting Network.

I am Mike Heck. Hope you're all having a fantastic week. We are still sort of feeling the hangover effects of UFC 294 is a Makhachev's big win. Hamzaa Chameh's performance. The questions still remain about Shamiath in his middleweight prospects after his victory over Kamara Usman.

But then that hangover isn't as severe. on this Thursday because our attention was brought to the next pay-per-view. UFC 295. I left New York on Sunday evening, heading home thinking, you know what, I'm going to be back in this place, in New York, in the studio for the watch party in 20 days, and we're going to see John Jones versus Steve A. Meitchitch for the UFC heavyweight title. fight, all of that. Two big names. John Jones,

second fight this year after winning the belt. Could be the final time he ever fights. Could be the final time Steepay ever fights. At Madison, freaking square garden. I mean, that's a very, very big deal. And then Dana White pops on social media.

I'm asleep, by the way. I didn't know any of this happened until like 4 a.m. Wednesday morning when my dog started barking and said, Dad, get your ass out of bed. I got to go outside and do my thing in the front yard.

And then I just opened Twitter. And that was a mistake because then I found out what the hell was happening. John Jones tears his peck. He's going to be out for a hot minute. He's out. Steepa's out. And now Yuri Pajka versus Alex Pereira for the light heavyweight title. one of the best fights on the schedule for 20203 that is left is the new main event.

But on top of that, we found out that on less than three weeks notice, an interim heavyweight champ will be crowned. Sergei Pavlovich versus Tom Aspinall. It's going down. That is the new co-main event of UFC 295. This is really interesting because clearly the bigger fight, the fight that's going to draw all of the eyeballs is John Jones versus Steepay. That is unequivocally the bigger fight. That's the one that's going to sell the tickets and the pay-per-views and all that stuff.

And I've talked to some folks who spends almost $3,000 on a pair of tickets to UFC 295 just to get the John Jones-Stepe fight and to be there and experience it live at the world's most famous arena. But it is a risk when you buy tickets to things. it is a very risky thing because if you, especially in combat sports, it even says on the tickets, it says it on the websites, all that fun stuff that card is subject to change. But you still get two title fights.

This wouldn't happen in boxing. This doesn't happen in any other sport. This doesn't happen in any other sport. The Texas Rangers are both played the Diamondbacks in the World Series. If the Rangers, someone on the Rangers got sick, they're not going to be like, oh, man, the Rangers are out. Now we're going to bring in the Red Sox on short notice because they're well rested. It doesn't work that way. It's so crazy that we could still get something pretty cool.

Because like I said, Joan Sipay, far the bigger fight. I mean, so far away the bigger fight. But Pavlovich-Ale is the better fight. this is the more interesting fight. This is the fight everybody wants to see that are hardcore fans. Now, is that co-main events, that interim heavyweight title fight? Is that going to bring in a whole bunch of casual eyeballs? No.

But for us, the crazy people who woke up an hour and 15 minutes earlier to hop in this space, this is the better fight. This is the more intriguing matchup because there was not one second. since Jones Stepe was made that I thought Jones wasn't going to run homeboy over. Now it would have been a cool moment. It's crazy year. Things happened. But I thought John was just going to run Stepe.

But now we have a fight where I have no idea what that was going to happen. Aspeda was really, really good. Pavlovich is a terror. Both guys are on great runs. Aspeda obviously had the hiccup and the comeback and, you know, he beat marching Tibora. To me, I thought this was a little too. soon. I would have been cool having this fight regardless. Aspinall, Gahn made like all the sense in the world to me, but then Gond just kind of talked himself out of the opportunity and how he's

like out of the conversation altogether. And he's probably going to have to fight Gelt and Almeida after he beats Derek Lewis next week. So like, this is pretty cool. Like I am, I am fascinated by this fight. I really am. I really am. But yeah, pay for you buys are going to be far less, but who cares? Who cares? This fight's way cooler, and then the even better fight on the card is Yuri versus Alex. There is no other fight that I want to watch more than that one for the rest of the year. And that included Steve A versus John Jones.

We had our ranking show the other day, and one of the questions asked was, what are the three fights that you are personally looking forward to the most? There are four of us in the panel. Not one of us. Not one of us said John Jones versus Depe. None of us said it. Cool fight. Big names.

Lineage on the line. A whole bunch of that cool stuff. But just didn't seem all that competitive to most people. But Pavavich Aspinol, very competitive. Now, the other question that's come out of this is, should this be for the actual belt? Tough to answer. Because Dana said John Jones could be out for eight months.

I'm told from like brief conversations that I've had that eight months is maybe, what's the word I'm looking for? Overcautious? That it could be sooner. But something tells me this, this is probably international fight week. They're going to just rerun John and Steve A. But then like, is it for the belt?

Do we just have the interim champ just wait and not fight at all? until that fight happens. Like, that's why this is kind of weird. Does the interim title get defended before John and Steepa fight for the heavyweight title? Like, that's the only weird thing about this. And I understand why they're not stripping John because John is like one of the five biggest stars in the company right now. And Yuri Perashka really wasn't. So I don't understand why like Yuri got stripped.

And I know they spun it like Yerri. just self-vacated the title. I've said this a million times. I don't believe that for a second. But it just seems weird that this is for the interim title and now John's going to be out of eight months. Like, does he even fight again? Like, is Steve being going to try this again?

It's, I don't know. There's, I like this fight better, but it leads to more confusion in the aftermath, if that makes sense. So let's hear from you all. A lot of this happens since we spoke on Tuesday, as it typically does. And we're going to go for about 45 to 50 minutes.

It's going to be a very, very busy day. We have the Fury and Ghanu press conference coming up later on today. BTL at 1230. I do have to drive my wife to the airport in about an hour and 15 minutes. She's going to be traveling for a couple of days, so I get to get her to the airport. There's a lot going on. Rayboy, I was going to try to bring you in, and then you left us. What are you doing?

I tried. All right, let's go to Lee. Lee will kick us off. Lee, go ahead. hear me? Yep. Hey, yeah, quick thing, heck of a morning, first off. Yeah, I just think it's like a real,

I feel like it's a bad thing for this John Jones-Stepe fight to get canceled. Just because I truly believe we won't see steep again, especially with the interim title being on the line for Aspenon Favillage. Like, it's just I don't see how they can have that fight, and then it's like trying to fit Stipe in. So I just think he's just out of it, you know. I think he's going to retire. And then one more thing with the whole game situation.

I truly, yeah, he talked himself out of a title just from downplaying every fight that was a potential set-up fight for him to fight for the title. So, like, I think he's in the same boat as Duplessi. But yeah, have a good morning, Mike, and have a heck of the rest of the day. Thanks, man. Yeah, look, we have to also understand. And there's a few lessons that I've learned along the way since starting to cover this crazy sport. One is strike the word deserves from your vocabulary. And two, this might be the most important lesson to learn.

UFC titles are props. That's it. They're props. Now, for the fighter, like, you win the belts. It changes your life and all that stuff. But just winning big fights can also change your life. So, like, in the end, like, you can call Pavlovich Asmodal, like, the gobbledy gokert world title and everyone be like, oh, cool, there's a title on the line.

Like, it's the same thing. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Jones and Steepa could fight. And plus, like, let's think about it this way. Jones and Steepa are probably going to retire after they fight each other, right? Like, that seems to be the consensus thought here. Now, Steepe fighting John clear his final flight.

if he wins, does he try to get a rematch with John and try to get a bag again? Wouldn't rule it out completely. But I could also see Steve-Bay being like, nah, dude, I just beat John Frickin Jones. I'm out. I'm out of here. And I think that is probably like the best thing he can do. On the other end, Steve A ain't hurting for money. Steve A is a firefighter.

He loves his job, loves his life right now. This is just a big opportunity. for him. And if he never fights again, like, that's fine. But I think he would fight John. I think if they circle back to this, it's cool. But let's just say this fight happens international fight.

And let's just say that this fight goes the way that I think it's going to go, and most believe it's going to go. And John just runs them. John is going to say, like, whoever wins between Pavlovich and Aspen. Now, if Aspenol wins, maybe, maybe John, sticks around. Maybe. I don't think he will, but possibly. But there's also a world, too, where John doesn't retire. He just says, all right, show me something, kids. And if you do, then I'll come back. And Aspinol winning an interim title on 2019 days notice is very cool and admirable. And we will

celebrate the shit out of that. Or if Pavich wins, we will give them kudos. But John won't care. If it ain't making dollars, it ain't making sense to John at this point in his life and in his career. So basically, those two are going to fight. John's going to win. Both guys are going to leave. John's going to vacate the belt. And by proxy, whoever wins the fight is just going to become the actual champion anyway. So that's probably like the best thing we can hope for here is that John, they rebook this fight. John wins. He leaves. Steeper retires. And then whoever wins this fight just becomes the actual champion. It just takes eight months to get there. otherwise this is going to be super weird

that we have to wait for Pavlovich and Aspinol to fight, what, in November? Like, it's going to be another year before we see these guys unless they defend the interim title. So, yeah, I do feel like we'll get that fight. I do feel like we'll get it. And then I do feel like that'll be Steve A's last fight. I'm not sure if it's John's last fight,

but I think we won't see John for a while. I think John will leave. even if Aspinall, like, wins the, if Aspenol wins the interim title, he finishes Sergei Pavlovich and runs off like two or three title defenses, I think John would come back and fight him. Because if that happens, Tom's going to get over big. He's starting to get real popular. He ain't there yet, but he's starting to get there.

So that'll make things very, very interesting. And yes, Cyril Gaunt talked himself out of a title shot. Did I go ahead? No, back of a morning. So MSG took too big. yesterday from Porzingas too but I'm stoked let's go yeah that's what I'm saying

I agree Tom Aspinall Pavlovich great fight I think they took the idea of Jones and Stepe completely off the table once they said it was for an interim because what like what it's like for a Mickey Mouse Belt but I like Alex Piero

versus Prohashka being the main event I want to know you think Jamal Hill should be immediately considered for the winner of that fight if his injury timeline lines up. And yeah, that's all I got. Thanks, man. Yes, Porzziahs was awesome.

Tatum was awesome. Celtics grind out a win. It's good to see. It was good to see last night. Do I think Jamal Hill is next? He should be. He should be next. But we'll see what happens.

I mean, Jamal Hill, like, has to be next right now. especially with what happens on Saturday. You had Ankleife and Walker, like maybe one of those guys of timelines favored the winner of that fight. Maybe they sneak in there if they need to get something on the books. But then the way that fight ended and the knee and whether or not should have been a DQ, Ankelaif just can't catch a break. Johnny Walker puts his hands on a referee.

Like all these things happen and it's not a good. look. So those two guys are probably going to have to fight again. And you know, Yuri and Alex is going to beat the shit out of each other. That fight is not going to be one you can just bounce quickly back from, I don't think. So yeah, I think this is like the best thing for Jamal Hill. And I'll tell you what, the light heavyweight division has been cursed for a while. I'm just, I'm holding my breath. I'm knocking on wood that Yuri and Alex they fight and there is a clear winner and a clear loser so that we have an actual champion. Not saying Jamal Hill wasn't like, but again, it's still not even like the,

it's so this division is so effed up. It's crazy. Because like Jamal Hill beats Glover to Shera. And like there's a case to be made that like he's not the actual champion because Magamette ain't alive is still the best light heavyweight. we had Yuri who should not have been stripped but was and like all this weirdness happened and it's like until this fight happens and then the winner of this fight fights Jamal Hill like we don't know who like the actual champion is like this whole thing is bizarre so we kind

of need this fight to work and we need the winner to fight Jamal Hill and I got to tell you I am fascinated by both of those fights both of those fights both of those fights as especially after Jamal Hill's performance against Glover-Teshire. I know Jamal Hill eight fans of the NBA fighting global rankings, and that's fine. I don't care because we have Jamal Hill's... I forget where we have ranked. Third, maybe...

What are we? I don't know where we got? Third, fourth, or fifth or something like that, and he was really pissed off about that. But he beat Glover, who retired, and hasn't beat the top five light heavyweight yet. His best win is Johnny Walker? So, yeah, this is, this is, this is, this is great.

And Jamal Hill will be next and as it should be. And I'm looking forward to it. Foron Sniper, they'll go to Toke, they'll go to J-Mack, that we'll go to Cole. Go ahead, Forre on Sniper. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one.

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So firstly, I wasn't here on Tuesday, so I'll just say, I've just installed AI plug-ins on my computer. I've downloaded cheats to all my computer games because cheating always wins. I've learned it. I've, so I'm going to apply it to my own life and just win at life, apparently, because I won't get stopped.

But listen, listen, I mean, this was a great card. And I will talk about this weekend, though, because we have this fight going on in Saudi Arabia. and I'm very, it's not the fight itself I'm interested in because I just listened to a podcast with Luke Thomas where he interviewed Karim Siddharan, you know, this journalist, investigative journalists who kind of is in between sports and politics.

And he says that, and this is a very general question, so you take it wherever you want, but he said that he doesn't believe that Las Vegas has to stand, to bring the biggest fights in five to ten years. Already has kind of lost some of that, but he believes it's completely gone in five to ten years. Because of the emergence of Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, all these autocratic states and the money they keep pouring into sports and other venues, for that matter. But I just wanted to hear your thoughts on that when you think the future of Las Vegas,

which sounds very lofty, but you know what I mean. What do you think that is? And that's basically it, Mike. Have a good Thursday. That's a really interesting point that Kareem makes there. I don't know if it's true or not, but I think five to 10 years it's going to look vastly different. I mean, just look at the UFC right now.

Look at the UFC. Their home base is in Las Vegas. But just look at their business structure now. They don't have to have, like, they could go. an entire year. Like, I think International Fight Week should always be in Las Vegas, but they could go the rest of, they could go all of 2024 outside of International Fight Week

and outside of the stupid Apex cards, which are not going away, by the way. They could go the rest of the year without holding a single event in Las Vegas, and they will absolutely crush it. They will absolutely crush it. Because as we talked about on the show, there are certain locations that the UFC just wants to go to. Like them going to Boston last year, like, they just wanted to go to Boston.

It's just one of those cities. They're like, all right, we got to go back. Everyone's hounding us. We got to go back. Dana's from the area. Worked out. Fine. But as you have seen, especially internationally, when the UFC goes to these places,

it's not because they, like, want to go. London is maybe the exception because London's always treated them well. But for the most part, like when they go to Australia or they go to Australia or they go to all these other places, they are getting paid to go and getting paid a lot of money to go. So it is a whole different, it is a different game in that aspect because now these companies are like, we don't have to do shit. They're getting us on the phone. They're booking the venues.

And they're just like, hey, we'll give you all this money, millions and millions of dollars. All you got to do is just bring a show here. Just bring a show here. We'll handle the rest. Just come. And they do. and they make a whole bunch of money. And they can sell 11 tickets,

but they'll probably sell it out. And they'll charge astronomical prices. And guess what? People will spend it. They'll spend it. And they'll make even more money. So I get that side of it. I don't think Vegas will be like obsolete,

but the business is going to look a lot different five, ten years. There's going to be much more of that going on where like every UFC event, especially pay-per-view, is going to be treated like WrestleMania. where like all these cities, all these major cities around the world are going to be like bidding against one another to try to get the UFC into their area. Boxing too. Boxing as well. I think MMA, especially the UFC, I think Vegas will still be sort of the hub. But I don't think we'll have like, how many pay-fries are typically in Vegas?

Three, March, usually September, March, July. It's usually been September, but they didn't do it this year. And then December. So this year will be three pay-per-views in Vegas. And then all the Apex cards. Five, ten years, we might get one. UFC pay-per-view. Well, they have the No-J card, too, but I don't know, that's not a paper-view.

This pay-view-esque, but it's, so, yeah. I don't know. Dana also loves Vegas, too. He's got a soft spot for it. So it'll be interesting. Boxing, I think, is going to be a whole different ballgame. I mean, the Fury and Gano thing is just insane. Like, we all understand what this is going to be on Saturday, right?

Like, we get it. Like, we're all, we all understand what we're going to watch on Saturday. And yet, all the money being spent, all the money being paid to both those guys, which, God bless them, especially France and Gano. But, like, we know what we're getting on Saturday. Like, we all get it. It's insane. And we're going to continue to get these things. WWE has had a very good relationship over there.

UFC's going to spend a lot more time over there in Saudi Arabia. You're going to see more shows over there, that's for sure. But Vegas being out altogether, boxing, perhaps. But I think the UFC is going to stick around. Dane is obsessed with the sphere. So I think Dada will just find his way doing it. I think they'll have to do like a paper viewer in a big event and then all the apex cards, but then things will look a little bit different.

So and yes, and talk, let me just add to the cheating thing. I'm not talking about in life. I'm not saying like, hey, sit your kid on your lap and be like, hey, want to know how to get ahead in life? Cheat. But if your kid says, if your kid's like 17, 18 years old and you sit across the table from him, he says, I'm going to be a pro-M-A fighter who can't tuck me out of it. Yeah, I'm going to be like, bro, you make it to the UFC. cheat.

Cheat your ass off because you will win. You will win. The first thing you should do, son, is when the bell rings, when they say fight, just run across the cage and kick a dude in the balls as hard as you can. Do it on purpose. And then just act like you didn't do it on purpose. The referee is going to give the guy a few minutes to recover. The guy's going to recover because he's probably making 10 in 10 just like, you know, you are son. I would probably also tell him to miss weight by two and a half pounds because

you're only going to lose 20% of your purse, but you'll go get your win money because you're going to cheat. And then just when he gets up, have a striking exchange. If it goes well, keep doing it. If it doesn't, guess what? Poke him in the eye. Little eye poke. There's two. No points. We're back at it. Maybe you land a good shot. Homeboy tries to take you down. But you don't feel like wrestling. Just grab the fence. Grab the fence. Grab the fence. There's three. Still no points taken. And then if you tries it again, guess what you can do?

You can grab the fence again. That's four. That probably will get you like, okay, I'm serious this time. I'm serious. If you do it again, I'm taking a point. I swear to God, this is the time. And then if you get taken down, maybe get a glove grab in there. It's a different infraction, but they're still not going to call it.

and then you will win the fight. I'm not saying do that in title fights, but when you're getting, your first like seven UFC fights, you should absolutely cheat every single time because they don't do anything. And referees have even gone public and said, we don't want to take points

because it's going to, that one point could impact the entire fight. It is friggin' stupid. It is frigging stupid. And I don't know how many times I have to say this. I really don't know how many times I have to say this. you don't have to take points to make a difference. Eventually, you do have to take a point.

But like, the first conversation in the back should be the first warning. When you talk to the fighters in the back, you say, hey, this is what I expect from you. That's the warning. And then if you go out and kick a dude in the ball, it's like, all right, look, you want to be like, shit, that's an accident. Fine. But then after that, like, we got to start taking points. And the whole fence grab thing is ridiculous. Because like every, like every, every, every MMA coach that holds a UFC fighter or guys close, guys and guys close to it, they should be doing one hour on grabbing the fence.

Because those are never called, ever. And it drives me fucking insane. That they just, you just grab the fence. You just grab the fence and thwart a takedown. It's so dumb. when you can just easily say, hey, stop. Dude who grabbed the fence, get on your back. Dude who went for the takedown.

You're on top. Fight. Awesome. Then if it happens again, guess what? Same thing. But now you have to do it in the center of the cage, no fence to help you. And if it happens a third time, you do the same thing, then you take a point. Like, come on.

Cut the shit. It's so easy. The fact that you can like openly cheat and nothing happens and you still win is nuts. And I've been preach this for three years. And people used to give me so much shit for it. Jed too. We've been the guys preaching. Just cheat.

Just cheat. And finally, in the year of our Lord, 2023, people understand that you could just cheat and win. And nobody will stop you. It's crazy. It's frigging crazy. Every new league UFC fighters should be cheated. You're crazy if you don't. Yes, J. Mack.

How are you? Very good, man. So I was laying in bed two nights ago about, I don't know, 9, 10 p.m. And I happened to catch Dana White's little announcement that Jones and Steve was off. And my first thought was that Jones wasn't ready for the fight because he just so happened to have footage of him training. And I don't know. To me, did it look like he would have gotten hurt off of that? Like, it didn't look like it was anything.

Maybe he was already previously injured and then the tendon snap or something. But one I could see, it didn't look like much of anything. And it's just weird that he had a practice video. I thought that was odd. But anyway, I'll let you talk about that. But another thing I was going to ask you is, I think this matchup is actually better. And I'm actually more excited about Aspinall versus. Pavlovich because I think it's actually more competitive.

And I also think that Jones and Stepe is kind of like a, it's a super fight, but it's also a fight that I think that we can see later on. So I'm actually more excited about this fight. And I just wanted to get your thoughts on what you thought about that weird training video. And if you think this fight might actually be better than Jones Stepe as far as being. Thanks, man. I completely agree this is the more entree. intriguing matchup from a competitive standpoint, this is way more interesting than Steve

Bay versus John. It's way more interesting. Like the pomp and circumstance, it's not like Pavlitch and Aspital is as great as they are. This is a financial hit for the pay-per-views. Like, but it's a big one too. It's a big one. Because Jones steep, it's the grocery store test. I could go to the grocery store right now here in Rando, South Carolina, and I could ask 100 people at the grocery store who John Jones or SEPA is, and chances are like 50% of them are going to know who one of those two guys are.

And if I went in there and asked any of them who Sergey Pavich or Tom Asconal is, maybe one person will know who either is. And that's what the UFC is trying to grab. The UFC is trying to get the casual audience. They have us already. We're excited for this shit. I love this fight. This fight, this is a fight I would have wanted to see on the card anyways.

This is a great, like, featured bout. Just to have it there in case you needed it. But it turns out, as Tom Aspin all said on the MA hour yesterday, the UFC felt like John and Steve A were going to retire, which is a news. We've been basically talking about that from almost a year now, that when those two guys fight, it's probably going to be the end of the line.

and that they were going to get ready to book Pavlovich Aspedal for the vacant belts anyways. And I even said like when we're trying to figure out what's going to main event in January, is it going to be Volk DePoria? That would make sense. I was like, they'll probably just do like the vacant heavyweight title fight for that card because when John wins,

he's just going to leave and Steve-Bey's going to retire and he'll vacate the belt and then those two guys will fight for the belt. So like it all works out. love the fight. Love it. Look, here's the thing with the first point that you were trying to make. If you are John Jones and you had this three-year comeback

and you've had this up and down relationship with the UFC, it really hasn't been good for a long time until now. If you would call the UFC and said, like, yeah, man, hurt my pack. And then couldn't provide something like especially after Dana continues to put you over is the greatest ever do it

and he didn't always say that about John he had a lot of other things to say about John but it wasn't that plus John kind of films everything anyways it's good to just have the proof if you're a guy like John because he has just been in trouble over and over again and to me I think this was

John saying look man don't strip me the belt, I got legitimately hurt. Yeah. And it doesn't look like much. It's not like someone took a steel chair to his chest and it just like ripped the tendon off the bone. But you could hear the scream, man. You could hear the groan.

And you could see John's body language. Unless he is the greatest actor in the history of MMA, he looked badly hurt in there. He looked, that looked pretty painful. I don't know how it happened. But the way his body just kind of collapsed on the map and you could hear that groan, it just, oh, it just didn't seem right. And it's real, man. Like, it's legit.

It's all legit. We were basically told from conversations that I had, basically everything Dana said was legit. And it's not often that we could say that. But in this case, everything Dana said was true from conversations that I had with other people who were in the know. And I think it happened either Sunday or Monday. But the only thing that seems maybe for question is the time frame. It seems like eight months might be a stretch.

Like this is something John and his team are hopeful he can come back soon. sooner than eight months. But yeah, the injury is real. The injury is legit. So you don't have to worry about that. Cole, go ahead. Good morning. Good morning, Mike.

I'm just picturing your son, like, Fabricio Verdum style, running across at Travis Brown and just kicking him in the dick as hard, like sidekick as hard as he can. That would be awesome. And you actually would not receive a foul, which is insane for that. But my question is, do you think, like what do you think the picture of heavyweight's going to look like when john is finally healthy how are they going to like spin this whole steepe fight and be able to put that on for a title

when there's going to be an interim champ at the time so like basically do you think that that steepe john fight ever happens isn't steepe supposed to be like 43 by the time john is healthy like that's kind of crazy um yeah that's all i got look it's just going to be here's the way I view it. They're just going to book it for July. They'll do it International Fight Week. That'll be the main event. John will win.

John will, quote, unquote, leave. He won't retire, but he'll leave. He'll vacate the belt. Steep A will retire. And then by proxy, the winner of this fight will become the actual champion. So, look, whoever wins on November 11th is going to be the champion come the summertime. That's it. It's just going to be a weird.

way to get there. It's got to take some time. It's got to take eight months for it to happen. But they're going to do everything in their power to book John versus Stipe. Because John's not going to want to fight anybody else. And Stipe is not going to want to fight anybody else either. And if I'm Stepe like, it's John or bust. If I don't fight John Jones, then I'm gone. Because Steepe doesn't have to do this. He's made enough money fighting. He's got a pretty damn good life outside of it. This is just a legacy fight for him. This is a big, big money fight, chance to cement his legacy. That's it.

That's it. Stepe could never fight again and he will be content. But they are going to book this fight because it's a big one. It's a huge, like, it's a big fight. As a fan and as a pundit, I don't really care about it because I think, I'm pretty sure I know what's going to happen. It's two big names fighting and that's always cool. But I think we, most people understand.

understand what's going to happen there. So it's not all that compelling to me, but it also, we could also be looking at the last time that either of those guys fight. So it is interesting in that aspect, and it's going to draw a lot of iron attention. But other than that, like, I feel like John's just going to run him over. And then it's just like, wow, we built up all this. And now we get a built up again for eight more months for what we expected to happen to actually happen. And then whoever wins soon, Pavlovich and Aspinol by proxy will just become the new champion.

Like, we've done this before. We've done it before. Look at, like, you go back to Robert Whitaker. Remember how Robert Whitaker won the middle-A title? Remember how he became the middle-A champion? He didn't win it in a fight. He beat you O. Romero for the interim title. He was supposed to fight Michael

Bisbing. Michael Bisbing fought George St. Pierre instead at Madison Square Garden. G.S. finished Michael Bisbank became the middleweight champion and then left and then vacated the belt and Robert Whitaker who was the interim champion became the undisputed champion. So it would be the same thing here. That's what I predict is going to happen. So let's just like that's what I'm basically going to say is like let's think about it that way.

Let's think about it that way. That basically whoever wins this fight is going to be the interim champion for like eight months. and then once John and Steve A actually fight, they're just going to become the champion. I think we'll feel a little bit better about it. I've talked myself into that, but that's basically how this is going to play out. Matt, go ahead.

Two questions for you. So how unhappy do you think the UFC is with Sean Strickland and his fighter pay comments, especially because he was live on UFC fight pass and then they kind of had to stop airing his comments and then he put them out on his own Instagram afterwards. and then if Alex Beheadle wins this weekend, what does it do for his legacy? I mean, coming in, he's going to have two belts, having won two belts.

I mean, what do you think that that does for his legacy, especially if he can keep it going at 205, which I think would be very impressive. And the last thing I want to say is go Rangers, they're going to kill the Diamondbacks. Obviously, I have family in Dallas. I'm rooting for you. There was a time back in the day where I would not root for

I would not root for the Rangers but I'm rooting for the Rangers here. I didn't even see Strickland's Fighter Pay comments and it seems like his Instagram is it's been taken down or it's not working.

Let me see if I could find. I know there's like some of YouTube videos and stuff no one wrote about it I'll have to watch it there's like video clips of it but I didn't see it if we're being honest but I mean does that surprise you

Sean is who he is he's going to say what he feels whether the UFC likes it or not and Sean has done the UFC a lot of favor so and he ain't the only one to talk about fighter pay and he's certainly not going to be the last one to talk about fighter pay

but this is it's kind of interesting because as I told that story a couple of weeks back heading into 294 that Sean Strickland's was the first phone call

to fight Hamza Shamaa once they thought Paul Costa wasn't going to be able to go they were going to do Strickland versus Shemaya for the middleweight title

at UFC 294 like that was the first phone call that was made and of course they talked to Sean and Sean's like fuck yeah man I'll go

I'll do it and then Sean talks to his team and they're like dude, you're the champion. Like you just won the belt. You just did the favor. So don't do them another one. You don't need to.

Guys should be lining up to short notice fight you when your original opponent falls out, not the other way around. And not to travel across the globe to fight Hamzot? Like, I totally understood where his team was coming from. It would have been bonkers if Strickland did it. But if Strickland, like, Strickland was, like, training on his own or whatever, he would have taken that fight in five seconds. He would take that fight in five seconds. All right, thanks, Matt.

So there's a video. Pretty much is don't, don't fight. There's no money in it. He's not wrong. He's not wrong. But, yeah, Sean's the freaking middleweight champion the world, man. His life's got. His life's about to change.

It probably already, it already has, but his life's about to seriously change. Once he starts book it fights. It's going to be real interesting to see you Shrickel fights next, man. It's going to be super interesting. And then Pereira, man. If Alex Pereira... I mean, just think about this. Just think about what Alex Pereira could do two weeks from Saturday.

Just think about this. Because this is insane. This is insane. This is going to be Alex Pereer's 11th pro-MMA fight. 11. 11 pro-MMA fight. he went basically full-time back to MMA, entered the UFC at 3-1 as a pro.

And obviously he's got the extensive kickboxing background. He's got the wins over Izzy. This dude flying knees, Andreas Mikolaitis at UFC 268 at MSG, beats Bruno Silva in a tough fight by decision. Then from there, in his sense. seventh pro fight, fight Sean Strickland,

International Fight Week, knocks him out. And then four months after that, in his eighth professional MMA fight, becomes the UFC middleweight champion, finishes Izzy in round five. Like,

he already broke everything. He broke the middleweight division. He broke the pound-for-pound rankings. He broke all of it. Because this doesn't make sense. And then five months, later to make things even more interesting, Izzy knocks out Alex Pereira in round two.

What's probably going to be the knockout of the year. Like a very, unless something crazy happens, it's probably the knockout of the year. And then Izzy leaves the division. I mean, Perr leaves the division. We got this trilogy that's kind of floating around that everybody wants to see

because it makes sense to do, right? Immediately after the fight, Perrier's going to 205. Three days later, Pereer is like, I'm going to 205. Beat John Belhovic, and now he's going to fight for the belt at light heavyweight. Seven months after he lost the middleweight title in brutal fashion to Israel Adasadya.

If he wins the light heavyweight title, this is nuts. Like this run is, this would be like nothing we've ever seen before. enters the UFC at 3 and 1, and in 7 fights, wins the middleweight title and the light heavyweight title. This would be the craziest run in the history of the sport. It has to be. This doesn't make sense. None of this makes sense.

Alex Pereira has broken the sport in a good way. In a good way. If he beat Jerry Perashka, and he could do it. this is just insane. Two-division champ in literally two years. Two years in the UFC with only four pro-M-MA fights

becomes a two-division champion. This is nuts. Yeah, it'd be one of the most incredible feats you've ever seen. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time.

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And just my other question, related to the heavyweight, just some match-up proposal I want to get your thoughts on. So, you know, Volkov's currently just wanting to get tight to advice, so I moved out the ranks. do you see him fighting maybe as Cyril Garn or Curtis Blade down the line just to possibly move him up the ranks and also

with Cyril Garn he said he did not want to fight Tom Ashmore I was thinking I would like to see him fight either Jail Tel Amita if he went against Derek Lewis which I think will happen or Curtis Blade because from Curtis Blade's perspective he lost the Pelvovich and that was his ticket to getting a towel shop

but I still think he has one last shot to do so if he fights Cyril Garne can use a game plan effectively in wrestling and win. What are your thoughts on that? Thanks, man. Talked a lot about Pavich Aspinall already. As far as prediction, not really sure just yet. I'd probably favor Aspinall, but not by much. Because I, like, Aspernel, I mean, Asperol basically laid out the blueprint on the M.A. He's like, I ain't going to stand and bang with this dude. I'm going to take him down. And it's going to be real interesting if Tom does take him down.

Curtis Blades should have taken him down. Curtis is like, nah, I could trade with this guy and just got wrecked in there by Pavlov. So if Aspital gets to do a slug fest with Pavich, he's going to get killed. So I think he understands how that's all going to work. And I would favor Aspinol, but I have to get into a little bit more. Because I just don't know at this point how good surgery. Gets off of his back because he hasn't had spent any time there. He's just knocking, he's just lamping fools in like three minutes or less.

Volkov's going to be interesting. I'm not really sure. But dude, Cyril Ghan is going to get like the toughest fights possible. He's going to get the toughest fights possible. He's kept, like, Cyril Gahn absolutely killed himself with what he's been saying since his recent win, the Paris win. Like, I'm not fighting anybody. unless it's for the belt.

I'm not fighting Tom. That's a step backwards. He should have went all in on Pavlovich as soon as that fight ended. Like, it's crazy, man. Because, like, now got, like, I haven't seen it on social media now. Like, people think, like, God, oh, well, God, scared of Tom Aspidol. No, he's not, but it's just,

just have no names, just be like, nah. The only thing that makes sense is the title. Like, come on, dude. that you got to be better than that. He should have went full force on Sergey Pavlovich. Because that's a, like, that is a really interesting styles clash. And a fight that I think Cyril God could win. Like, I would probably pick Cyril God against Sergey Pavlovich.

But he didn't do it. And now he is like out in the cold. So he might get Volkov. He might get Jailton Almeida. He might get Curtis Blades. Like, this is his future. He's going to have to work. He's basically the Magamette Anklea

of the heavyweight division right now. And I'm not saying that's basically how they're looking at him or he's got to, he might just be the guy. Like he might be the best heavyweight left over when all things are settled here. Once Jones leaves, he might be the guy. But he's talked himself out of it.

So he's, I mean, he's in a tough spot. He's got to get a really tough fight next. really tough one. I can't, like if Jelton beats Derek Lewis, he's probably next. He probably gets the, he probably gets the Pavan of the Jasperol winters sometime next year. And Gond's going to have to fight somebody else. But who knows? And look, I don't think it's going to happen, but what if Derek Lewis somehow beats Jelton

Almeida? You know how the UFC feels about Derek Lewis? Derek could have been a big free agent, could have been. made a whole bunch of money going elsewhere, less than a week after that, flying knee finish of Marcus Ruggis Re-Signority to Lima, re-signs with the company. He's a company guy and a very popular one. It's probably the most popular heavyweight on the roster outside of John Jones.

Gone is going to be working for a hot minute. All right, we'll take two more. Clay and Brian, that are going to go. Clay, go ahead. Hello, Mike. I've been thinking about the depressing outcome of 294 and, you know, the vote got knocked out on the first round. And I was wondering, do you think

if would have been a much competitive fight if Matthew Shkiyamrod would have fought against Islam? I'm pretty sure it was not going to get knocked out in the first round, I'll tell you that. What do you think? Maybe, but again, like, this is, this is tough because I think, I don't know if we talked about this. I don't know if we talked about this on the ranking show or not,

but it's so, it's almost impossible to look at that in hindsight now, just considering what happened. Because I think the feeling around it for most people is like, all right, this fight might not be as competitive as the first one, but I don't think a lot of people saw Machachev just wrecking Volk in the first round with a head kick. You know what I mean?

So I'm sure Gamrod would have been a little more intriguing, a little more interesting. Yeah, I'm sure it would have been a better fight after seeing what we saw. But again, is that interest people right now? Not really. And when you go to Abu Dhabi and Abu Dhabi pays you a bunch of money

and they want some sort of input on the quality of the card, and I think this is something that made them happy. As opposed to Batush Gamrod, who, while it would have been a more interesting fight, Dakar would have done like 250,000 paper-vis if Batush Gamrot was the main event, not Volkanowski. So, yeah, probably would have more competitive fight, but just very few people would have watched it. And now this also puts us in a better spot too,

because while that fight would have been more interesting, we also still would have had that Bolkinovsky cloud hanging over the division. And as I like to say, and as Jed likes to say, and others at MAAfighting.com like to say, it is, we are overdue, especially at 155, for lightweights to fight for the lightweight title and featherweights to defend their featherweight title against featherweights. I am long for a world where fighters stay in their division and just defend against the next guy. Now, I didn't have a problem with Volk stepping in, but. at the same token, while you burnt the bridge and we're not going to see these two guys ever fight again,

if you're his on Mokachev, if you're the lightweight division right now, that was the best result you could possibly hope for. Because now that's it. We don't have to talk about Volk ever again. Not saying he could never get a lightweight title shot, but he's never fighting. He won't get a lightweight title shot as long as Mothchev's champion. Mokachev seems like a guy could defend that title for a long ass time

and now we get Gaichi maybe we get old it could be Olivera Oliver or Gaichi and then we get these other guys coming up we got Sarukian if he ends up fighting Daryush that fight's still not done yet we got even the Wiley Vets

like Bobby Green coming up there's talks about maybe him fighting Dan Hooker later on this year that fight's not done either like and now like we get some movement in this friggin division that we haven't had in so long it's always the same guys always the same guys and the same matchups now we get a little bit like really starting the trend and then volk go back to 45 he can fight to poria this whole notion that volk has cleaned out the

division is just wrong. He hasn't. He's beat Max Holloway three times. He beat the Korean zombie. He beat Yair and he beat Brian Ortega. There's other guys. Toporia. We get Mavsarov Loeff coming up. He's fighting Arnold Allen. That's two new guys that he hasn't beat yet. Bryce Mitchell's coming up. Hasn't beat Bryce yet. And a whole bunch of other guys. Like featherweight, it's always like oh well lightweight's the best division oh banamite's the best division want to know what's what's on the way up as well featherweight giga jacazze is still there i don't think he's going to get to a title shot but he could UFC seems to really like him you got guys like nathaniel wood well not really nathania wood but guys like lorone murphy guys like jonathan pierce and like just killers on the way up people love diego lopez

People freaking love Diego Lopez. He's in the featured bout at Madison Square Garden. He has not cleaned out this division. He's far from it. Far from cleaning out the division. So, yeah, short term would have been a better fight, but long term, feel bad for Volk. Dude took a chance to got annihilated,

but now we can somewhat, at least as far as the UFC goes, somewhat get back to normal here. Although it's never really normal in the UFC because look at what just happened earlier this week. But you know what I'm trying to say. Brian, go ahead. Hey, Mike. How are you doing today? Good.

Good to hear. I tuned in a little late. I might have missed this. I just wanted to touch on obviously $2.95 main event. And if you know of any sort of news if Stipe was actually offered it, because it makes no sense to me how Sergei is the backup, someone falls out. And then the last night on Power Slaps conference, Dana says how it would be embarrassing to offer him an interim fight. So what's even the point of having Sergei as a backup there? Why not just had Tom and Sergei already scheduled as a backup?

Just wanted to get your opinion on that. And just wanted to get your opinion on that. Thanks, Mike. I mean, I don't think it's totally ridiculous. Dana is saying that? I really don't. I don't think it's totally ridiculous. And also, I think part of it is as well, like, Stepe ain't fighting either of those guys.

Like, they know. Like, why would Steepa fight either of these guys? Makes absolutely no sense. He wants to fight John, and that's it. Nothing else interests Stepe. You want to know why? I know that, because he would have taken a fight before that, before this John Jones fight. He would have fought since losing the belt to France and Gano.

He would have fought Francis. He would have fought John and that's it. Nobody else. So I think the UFC was probably well aware of that. Plus, I think there is a part of it too where it's like, yeah, it's disrespectful to even offer steep an interim title fight. Like, I think it's half that and half knowing that, well, we're not going to waste our time calling him because he's going to say no.

And guess what? He should say no. He should absolutely say no. He gains nothing from beating either of those guys or losing to either of those guys. You lose to John Jones, like, it's okay. Like, you lost to the greatest fighter of all time. You lose to Tom Aspinall. Like, boost Tom's stock does nothing for Stepe.

Stebe riding off into the sunset, losing the Aspinall or Pavlovich and not getting the Jones fight, like, makes no sense. So I get it. I get it. Stepe would not take it anyway. And he should not, absolutely should not take it. What's the point? All right, we'll take one more that I really have to go. I am up against it here.

I'll try to get Alex in here. If not, that will be it. It looks like we're getting the Wheel of Doom. Yep, the Wheel of Doom is still spinning. So I'll get us out of here, but I'm sure as I'm giving my exit speech, the wheel of doom will stop because that's what always happens. All right.

I don't think it's going to happen this time. So, all right, we're done. Thank you for being flexible. Normal time tomorrow. Don't you worry about that. 10.15-ish a.m. Eastern time. Get you ready for Fury in Ghanu since there's no UFC this weekend.

Please get your questions in to myself and my best friend, A.K.K. Lee. we're going to be recording our Ask Us Anything onto the next one show pretty much like right after we do this show we're recording it tomorrow so however you submit your matchmaking suggestions you can submit your questions there we get some good ones and we'll answer as many as we can and we'll have a preview show tomorrow for Fury and Gano

that's at 1 p.m. Eastern we will have BTL today and it was time. It was time to get the band back together. It was time. It'd been too long. So this week, we weren't even going to have Casey this week. So I have to produce the show myself on Stream Yard, which the quality is not going to be as great,

but Alicia can still get the show. But it's going to be Jen Mishu and Brian Campbell, morning combat fame, which is going to be a lot of fun. We have a whole bunch to talk about fall of 294. This changes to 295, Fury and Ghanu, all that fun stuff. So 12.30 p.m. Eastern, and it's going to be a good time. So we will see you then, and we'll see you here tomorrow.

Shortly after 10 a.m. Eastern time right here on heck of a morning. Have a great rest of your day, everybody. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Hi, I'm Sophia Loper Caro, host of the Before the Chorus podcast. We dive into the life experiences behind the music we love. Artists of all genres are welcome, and I've been joined by some pretty amazing folks, like glass animals. I guess that was the idea,

was to try something personal and see what happened. And Japanese breakfast. I thought that the most surprising thing I could offer was an album about joy. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, and remember, so much happens before the chorus.