MMA Fighting - HOAM | Should Charles Oliveira or Justin Gaethje Get Next Title Fight vs. Islam Makhachev?

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

With Arman Tsarukyan's huge win in the main event of UFC Austin, there's been a lot of debate on how to matchmake the top of the lightweight division, including who Islam Makhachev should defend his lightweight title against next — Charles Oliveira or Justin Gaethje. On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck discusses the loaded 155-pound division, who Makhachev should face in his next title defense, and who Tsarukyan should face following his 64 second finish of Beneil Dariush. Additionally, listener topics include the future of UFC APEX cards, UFC Vegas 83, the flyweight development of Muhammad Mokaev and Tatsuro Taira, KSW and Oktagon MMA making big moves in 2023, and much more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. It is Friday, December 8th, 2023,

and it is indeed a heck of a morning. We are live on the M&A fighting. Twitter space, you can hear the show in its entirety shortly thereafter, the MNA Fighting Podcasting Network. What is going on, everybody? I am Mike Kack.

Hope you're all having a wonderful Friday. It is the holiday season. Happy Hanukkah to those who celebrate. A lot going on. A lot going on. We're on the eve of UFC Vegas 83. Wayans are kicking off at noon Eastern time. We will have a preview show at 1 p.m. Eastern.

So if there's any drama on the scales, we can react to them live as they're happening. How about that? It'll be myself, Jed Bishu and Jose Young's going live to preview Song Yidong versus Chris Grudieris, Anthony Smith versus Colillo Roundtree, and much more. And the more I look at this card, the better it gets, if that makes sense. Like in terms of stakes in all of that, it's a two-fight card, the main event and the co-made event. But in terms of like matchups, there's some fun ones here. I think this is going to be an enjoyable watch.

I wish this was starting a little bit earlier. But it is what it is. Can't complain too much. We are on the road to UFC 296, which is eight days away. So we just got to get through this one. And then it is on to UFC 296. And I am super excited for that. I'm actually going to be speaking with the great John

panic around noon eastern today for a little preview of 296. So you can look for that on the YouTube channel and the podcast network and all that fun stuff. So I'm looking forward to that chat. And I'm looking forward to chatting with all of you. It is a free for all Friday. We could talk about UFC Vegas 83. We could talk about the world of MMA. We could talk about whatever you want.

We can talk about the Patriots eking out a win against the Steelers last night. The two shittiest teams in football battling it out on a Thursday night, just as God intended. But we probably won't talk about that. So let's go. Cryptocurrency. Holy shit. I haven't heard from you in a hot minute. What's up, man?

Are you there? Hi, Mike. Can you hear me? Yes. How are you? Good. How are you? Good.

Yeah, it's been a long time. It's been a hectic couple of months. I've been away and so on. But finally back. So, Mike, I listened to BTL yesterday. and I heard the discussion regarding what's next for Armand Sarukin. And I don't know if this is news or not, but let me just set the stage. So at the end of last month, Gamorot has signed a contract for his upcoming fight.

And this is quite interesting because this might give us a clue regarding what is about to happen in the lightweight division. So just a couple of things. First of all, it will happen, as he put it, during the initial months of 2024, so probably during the first quarter. The second thing he said is that the fight is not against Makachev, no big surprise here, right? I mean, we kind of knew that. But the third part, which is very interesting here, is that he is very pleased and happy with the fight that will happen. And the reporters, this was actually, there's several Polish interviews.

So there's both video and this written form material where he expresses this. So there's several sources. But the interesting part here then becomes if this is a fight that will happen during the first quarter, and it is a fight that he's pleased with looking at the, let's say, top 10 fighters in the lightweight division, it kind of just messes things up, at least for me. So if you look at the guys that are behind him in the top ten, Jalen Turner, Hooker, Fiziev, Daryush, all those guys have either had fights booked when this discussion occurred

because the negotiation happened during the month of November. So it just cannot be any one of those guys. and Dan Hooker is of course injured also and so on so it just doesn't make sense here so let's look at the top five guys Chandler we know that's not the fight that he has signed Chandler will hopefully fight McGregor but we never know but anyway Chandler wouldn't sign that contract we know it's not Saruken because Saruken had a fight book they wouldn't book the fight against gamrod once again the time the timeline line here is very important. So they wouldn't have booked that fight before they knew the outcome between

Saruken and Darjush. So it's not Saruken. So we get three guys left, Mike. I don't think that Dustin Poir would take that fight, not because he's afraid and so on, but just, I mean, just generally speaking and given the interview on the MMA hour and so on, he's at a different stage in his career. I don't think he would like to fight Gamrot. Once again, not because he's afraid, just because I don't think that makes sense for him.

So we are left with Olivera and Gaichi. And this is, I don't know if it's a bold prediction, Mike, but given the time frame that Cameron has stated, and also that he is quote unquote very happy with the matchup, I'm actually going to make a bold prediction here and say that during the card in Saudi Arabia, Geichi will get the title fight against Makachev and Olivera will have to fight Gamroth. I think that is the fight that he has signed because no other fight makes sense if he is happy with the fight, so to say. And listen, I mean, Gamrod, he's a nice guy. He seems to be happy with life in general.

So maybe this could be someone that I haven't even thought of, but I doubt that it could be someone outside the top 10 if he says that he's happy with the matchup. And it also makes sense for the card mic. So if something happens between Geichi and Makachev, you'll have a backup fighter, either Olivera or Gamrot. And our new fan favorite,

here, Zaruka gets the good old host job and I think he becomes the backup fighter. And what will happen then is that the winner between Olivera and Gamrot will get to fight the winner between Makachev and Gaichi and Sarukaan will have to have one more fight before he is given the title shot. So I just want your take on that. Like what does that actually mean for the lightweight division now that we know that Gamrod has a fight book that he's pleased with that will happen during the first quarter. Am I out of my mind to think that good old Charlie gets gets punished here because of what happened? Or what fate could it be? Like, what am I missing, Mike? What am I missing? If it's not Geichi, Makachev, I mean, who else would

Gamrod be happy with. Sorry for the long rant, Mike, but I just, I listened to BTL yesterday and Jed discussed this and he thought that Gamrot will have to fight Saruken or actually the other way around Saruken will have to fight Gamroth. And listen, Mike, I would love to see that rematch. So, so don't get me wrong. But we know that Gamrot already had a fight, an agreement signed before the Benil Darje Saruken fight happened. So glad to be back, Mike. Hope to to be here more often now that I'm back. And I would love to hear your thoughts on this, given that, yeah, Gamrod has a fight side.

Thank you. Cool. Thanks, man. I have no idea. This is the first I've actually heard about that. I mean, if I'm all of here, why would I even entertain that idea? I don't know.

Honestly, I don't know. And that's like, Syrucans just that... Because look, if Gamrod... Like, I know Gamrod has a quote-unquote... win over Sirukian. But Serukian has the best win of all of these guys right now. Like Saruk... Gamrod went and fought Charles...

Dacharsal-Daraj and lost, clearly lost. And Surukia dusted him in 64 seconds. He's the top five guy. Gamrod is coming off of a split decision win that was kind of contentious with Jail and Turi. and the weird, you know, the injury stoppage went over Raphael Fiziz, which you got like no buzz from at all. I just don't know unless like, I don't know if like Oliver gets that.

I don't know. Look, to me, this is sort of simple. I kind of think Gamrod's the odd man out here after what Serucyan did. I think Gamrod really needed Benial to win to at least somewhat stay in play right now. But it's just lightweight is so strange right now. I don't think Pori is going to be at all interested in that fight. Could he be interested in fighting Surukin?

Maybe. Gaci is certainly not fighting Gamrod. I don't know. I have no idea what's going to happen here. But the way I would draw it out, Gae gets the title shot. Olavera fights Sarukin. that is a far more compelling fight than the Gamrot one.

And it's not even close. It's not even a conversation right now. And yeah, I don't know. Let me see what like the UFC lightweight rankings look like right now. Because, I mean, I just feel like he's the odd man out here. I feel like there is no buzz for Batush Gamrot right now, none, especially after what Sarukian did. So, Sarukian is ranked number four.

Gamrod's tied for five, which is kind of weird. I mean, I know Derrish lost two in a row, but Derrish does have a win over Gamrott. Fizzi being out kind of stinks. Dan Hooker's out for a while. Jalen Turner's number 10. Honestly, like, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you the fight I'd want to see.

I'd want to see Gamrod fight Ben Wausantanadi. Like, that is a super interesting fight to me. Like, I would, Ben Wausantanini versus Dan hooker would be like my choice but it doesn't seem like if we're going to get vSD back in their first quarter of the year i mean that's a super fun fight i would love to see that one everyone's probably going to have to fight backwards right now they just are so i don't know i don't know what's going to happen there i really don't but who knows who knows i just don't see like Oliver would be like if it's

a top five guy I mean you think it's Oliverer but after seeing what Sarukin did why like all Surukin's the way more compelling fight than Gamrod and Sarucan's ahead of Gamrod and even if Gamrodrott beats Oliver it doesn't guarantee him a title shot

I don't know it's just it's a weird lightweight it's the best division in the sport but it's also so frustrating because we finally have a guy who has broken through the top five who finally got a win over a top-ranked guy, did it incredibly impressively,

and he's kind of stuck right now. Like, he truly gained... He got buzz, and I think people are like, yeah, that's the guy, but he really didn't gain a whole hell of a lot from this win with the timing of this division right now. I don't know. We'll see. I'd be... I mean, look, could they do Gemmered Oliver?

Sure. Gage is certainly not taking that fight because why would he? And yeah, it's a mess. It is a mess. Timmy, go ahead. It's not going through.

Timmy, bounce out, bounce back in. We'll get you in, all right? Yep, Timmy, it's not going through. Cole, go ahead. Good morning, Mike. Happy Friday. Just listening to GC and Jed talk about Georgia football and Mike Bobo.

It's like, you guys, that was your first loss in like three seasons, and you're calling for his head. It's like, I don't even, like, a Georgia fan, but like, what the fuck kind of spoiled-ass shit is that? Like, I'm a Minnesota sports fan. I mean, Jed, I'm getting all upset about Mike Bobo. I mean, come on. One loss.

All right. Anyway, on No Bet's Bard there talking about, uh, maybe like two contender series fighters who lost being on this card this weekend. Like, is that true? And like, if that is, like, what are we doing here? That just tells you, like, there's too many cards for not enough talent on the roster. Like, that's all I got. Have a good day, Mike.

Thanks, man. Let me just look at this real quick. I believe, let's see. Let me pull it up here. Tolita Alancar, she didn't, she fought on the contender series, but she fought to a draw. Carlos Vera was on the ultimate fighter, and I believe lost his fight, but got signed.

Shannon Ross, I believe, lost on the contender series. He did. All right, so he definitely, he lost the contender series. And that might be it? Like, Alan Carr, yeah, Vera was, Vera lost on the ultimate fighter and got signed. Shannon Ross lost in the Contender Series and got signed. And there may be others that I can't, but those two stick out. So yeah, that's just where we're at right now.

And Tolita Alancar fought on the Contender Series and fought to a draw and a pretty fun fight. And got signed, which I'm honestly not really surprised by. because I interviewed Tolita Allen Carr when she was like 1 and 0 or even before maybe before a pro debut. Obviously a very talented grappler. And everyone was telling me like, watch out for this girl. She's got to be a problem. But she's got a tough one on her hands with Dos Santos, the former Invicta champ.

So yeah, look, this is what we do with the Apex. We have to fill out the lineups. We have to also remember that this was the card that, was supposed to be in Shanghai, and then they moved it to Vegas, and a whole bunch of fighters that were supposed to fight in Shanghai couldn't get over here, so we had to fill it out somehow.

And this is what we get. This is what we get with these apex cards. This is what we get. And we have some squash matches here. Shannon Ross is probably going to get finished by Yun-sung Park, because Shannon Ross gets finished by everybody. That's just the nature of the beast. So, yeah, this is.

This is the world, folks. This is the apexe apex world. Timmy, go ahead. Nope. Do we have you, Timi? It's not looking good. Nah, we're just, the connection on your end is just not going through. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes.

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It's not going through Toke do we have you I do But yeah I just wanted to commend you for all the brilliant content this week So I wanted to start off With the Mark Hunt episode

Of them they were good What a powerhouse of a show I mean that was crazy And probably the best And we also got the best VTL of the year With the sound clip of the year With Luke Thomas Just shouting

What the fuck does that even mean, Don? Just shouting it out in front. Oh, my God. I laughed so hard when I heard that. My girlfriend thought it was crazy. But, you know, she's not in the MMA space. Jet and Luke just going at each other is probably my favorite content that you make. And actually, that was part of, that was why I was calling in.

And I have one last thing, to Crypto's point. He might have just been offered a fight that didn't get accepted. on the other side, that's probably what I would say. And like maybe they offered Max Holloway Meadows scam rod, and then that didn't go anywhere. Like the timelines match up for that, in my opinion. So I think this might just have been one of those. Yeah, he might have signed some agreement,

but that doesn't mean that it's actually going to go through. So it sucks, but don't assume that he suddenly has a top five guy. that's all Mike thank you dude give me give me him in sotsony right now like that's that's totally fine i'm totally fine with that idea him and max holloway would be pretty friggin't fun huh yeah that'd be kind of interesting alzo saying that he's probably not going to get max so i mean does max fight somebody else to see i mean if i'm max ain't taking any fights i'm just waiting i'm playing video games for the next two months and waiting to see what happens with volkenovsky and Toporia. And obviously if

Teporia wins, they're probably going to give Volk another fight. But yeah. I mean, if Holloway's going to move up to 55, I mean, him and Gamrod would be fun. But I feel like he would rather

fight a bigger name than Gamrott, like Aporee or like him in Olivera is a great fight. Him and Gagey rules. That's like the fight I have to see before it's all said of done. Like there's just more fun fights than Gamron. Although I would, I think that would be really fun.

Yeah, I don't know. But look, like there are oftentimes where the UFC will just be like, hey, what do you think about this idea? And then they say the fighter gets presented with it. And all it is is just like, hey, would you do this if we offered it to you? And they say yes. And sometimes the name is very exciting. and it turns into, well, yeah,

they, UFC offered me this fight and I said yes. When that's not necessarily the case, you know, case and point, we talked about this last week, people are asking about Robert Whitaker, Paul Costa for UFC 299, and I know Whitaker's kind of teased it, his coach kind of teased it, and I basically reached out and we talked to some folks. And I told you guys, like, very initially, all that's kind of happened there is the,

FFC said, hey, would you be interested in fighting this person on this date if we offered it to you? And they said yes. And that's as far as it went. It didn't go any further. There was no official offer. There was no contract. None of that. And we saw Rob Whitaker being like, oh, you know, third time's the charm.

Let's do this. But that's literally as far as it went from what I've been told. And maybe this is a similar situation where it's just like, hey, if this plays out like this, would you be interested in fighting this guy on this date? It doesn't mean it's done. It doesn't mean that a contract has been signed or anything of that nature. So kind of have to wait and see with all of that. But yes, if you haven't listened or watched BTL,

listen to or watched BTL, it's freaking great. It's a good time. The Don Dave stuff is just, it's chef's kiss. And as much as I like that line from Luke, I also enjoyed his reaction to Don's Gandhi tweet, and he said if I had four arms, I'd give it four thumbs down. Oh, it's the best.

God is the best. All right, Timmy, we'll give you one last shot. Let's see if we can get you in. Nope. It's on your end, man. I don't know why it's not going through. But it happens from time to time. Try to get Jemir in.

What's up, Mike? Can you hear me? Yep, I got you. Yeah, I was, I feel like you just touched on it a little bit about the apex cars. I was saying, I really don't mind them that much because they allow for, like, it's a lot of fighters on the roster. So it allows for, like, UFC to continue to sign of fighters, providing more jobs for these fighters. Like, we obviously all want fighters to have jobs and get this pay and stuff. So having these apex cars and throwing these fighters, these lower name fighters on these cars, I feel like it's good for them.

And I feel like we're just thinking about people who criticize it, which. I kind of see, understand why, because it's like, yeah, Apex cars, like, we're out of COVID, we're out of the pandemic. We should try to get on the road more. But I understand from USC's perspective as well. It's like it's cheap and we can steal, sign all these fighters and throw them on these cards and have them try to build names with some of them. They have good performances. And so I really don't mind them. I know it's probably an unpopular opinion.

No, I get it. And look, I bum people out all the time when I see people tweeting. or they asked me, you know, hey, it's 2024, are we going to have, after watching Austin or are you just not going to go back to the apex? I'm like, they're never leaving the apex. As long as they have this deal where they have to put on 46 cards a year,

they're never leaving the apex. Like, think about this card. Why do you think they moved this card to the apex? Because they weren't going to sell, like, more than a thousand tickets to see Song Yadong fight Chris Gutierrez. They just weren't. Now, if we got Zhang Wei Li versus John John on, totally different story.

But we have to think about it from a business perspective. One, we have to put on this many cards a year. And two, if we're going to take all of them on the road, how are we going to sell tickets? And most of these apex cards, they ain't going to sell shit. They ain't going to sell anything. But it's just, it's the aesthetics of it that bums people out. Because it's just like, man, we come from all. Austin where big crowd, everyone was fired up, people reacting to stuff, and then we just go to

the quiet-ass apex and there's just like no buzz and no momentum and it's just, it's just, I don't know, it just takes away from it a little bit. It just takes away from it a little bit. But I get it. Like, they're just not going to leave. The apex card should be like nine fights and they should all be at like 4 p.m. Eastern main cards or 7 p.m. Eastern at the latest. Like 9, 10 fights, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, let's call it a day. I long for the, I missed the days where the UFC was not on Fox and not on FS1. You would get a random fight night that was on UFC fight pass. And those cards were fucking great because they just went.

You'd go from one fight to the next to the next to the next. to the next and he'd watch a 13 fight card in like two out and like three hours it was the best it was awesome i wish the apex cards are more like that we're just like hey we got nine good fights and it's just like an exclusive card on plus and it's just no commercials we just go boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom and then i think it's a little more aesthetically pleasing as opposed to here's a fight there's another fight we've had two quick finish because that's what we get here, and now we have to go to the desk for an hour

before the next fight. Like, come on, man. Like, we just got to make these a little bit better. And look, they don't have, they could do these cards in Vegas, like, just in a different venue. Remember the card they did headline by Peoria and Marab de Walsh Willey?

They didn't go to Team Mobile for that. They went to, I don't remember where it was. They went to some small venue in Vegas because they couldn't do the A-Govil, Because they had the fucking power slap events. But it was so much better. It was like a thousand people there. Like, do that more often.

And you've got me. It's just the aesthetics of the apex. I think they could take it out of the apex a little bit. I get it from a business project. I get it. But once in a while, let's mix it up a little bit. 500 people. It doesn't have to be a big, huge thing.

500 people. Just make it a little more energetic. That's what I want. And I think that's what people want, too. What's going to be interesting with the future of Apex cards and such is when and if they sign a new TV deal. If they stay with the SvM Plus, they ain't going anywhere because the demand will probably be the same. But if they sign TV rights elsewhere and the demand isn't as large, there will be. far less apex cards. But they're never leaving there. Why would they? From a business perspective,

it makes no sense for them to leave there, especially with the deal that they're getting. They make it so much money. Just putting on this card, they're making millions and millions and millions of dollars just by putting it on. So at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter where it happens, but I get it. But it's just a lot, man. It's just a lot of fights and the energy is just zapped out of the building. So let's just mix it up a little bit. Once in a while, let's go somewhere else.

In Vegas, it doesn't have to be a 10,000 seat arena. You can bring your influencer friends that influence power slap. Influence that. Bring them into a UFC card at some rando place in Vegas

and put 500 people in the seats. That's what I would like to see. Matt, go ahead. Brown. About everybody's favorite show tough. Supposedly it's going to be feather weights and middle weights. So I want to know in a perfect world, who do you want as coaches? Right now, I think it would be a fucking blast to have Izzy versus Alex and have them be the coaches to tough. Who should coach tough? I mean, like honestly,

top of mind, it's John Jones and Tom Aspin, like that was. would be that would be awesome they could do john jones and stepe like that could happen that actually it wouldn't shock me if that's what we get because the only person that is defending that fight right now is dana white and probably john and probably john and stepe nobody else wants to see it they will get some casual appeal and yes when it comes on we'll watch it because we fucking watch everything but what better way to build something that and as a k would attest to what better way to build something that may or may not happen than having these guys coach the ultimate fighter and putting them on your screens and the more time goes by

the less we feel the fight will actually happen just do it john stepea could be it uh i'd like to see john and aspinall that would be really really fun and i'm trying to think like who would be i mean dude Sean Strickland is a tough coach would be pretty wild. DDP and Izzy would be pretty wild. I don't know. I'm going to predict it's John and Steepa. That's my prediction. I know Stepe is a firefighter,

so I don't know if he can get that kind of time off, but I'm sure the UFC would pay him pretty handsomely, and I'm sure you could go back and forth. I don't know. My guess is they're going to try to do John and Stepe to try to drum up some interest for that fight that nobody seems interested in anymore. but I'm just trying to think like who else would be like actually compelling.

Strickland would be fun and a little weird. Maybe do Sean O'Malley. No, because Sean and Chita will have, by the time they start filming, the fight's over. I don't know. It's a good question. But my guess is going to be John and Stepe. But I'm wrong about everything.

So I'm probably wrong about this too. Brendan, go ahead. So I've been thinking this week for some reason about the off the bus all stars for each weight class in the UFC or, you know, any organization really. So who do you think are like the best looking guys getting off the bus for each weight class? Oh, boy. Oh, geez, Louise. I don't know. I got to think about this one.

I mean, Jets and I'm made is like definitely opposite. there for heavyweight getting off the bus all stars i don't know i got to think about paul cost is obviously on that list um yeah i got to i don't know that's not something that can come up with the top of my head al jane sterling's probably on that list somewhere big shredded dude leon edwards is probably on that list right now you've seen what he looks like dude is shredded he's ready to go dude is yoked but yeah don't really know know. See, Vee, go ahead. This up, Mike, heck of a morning.

Happy Free For All Friday. Don't really have anything to ask, but I just want to say thanks for all the content that you guys put out this year. I'm actually doing some last-minute packing right now. I'm going away for a vacation for a month. It's going to be somewhere warm, and I probably won't be able to tune in live to any heck of a morning just because of the time difference. but, you know, I can't wait to listen to it in podcast form.

And yeah, shout out to you guys. If I don't get a chance to hop in live here, just want to wish everybody here. Merry Christmas, a happy New Year's. My prediction for next week's main event, it's going to be a vibes pick. I think we're going to have a new Walterweight champion next weekend. And, oh, yeah, one more thing, since I see AK is here on the space, Sohei Otani is going to be a blue jay today. Thank you.

First of all, how dare you? How dare you? We'll see. We'll see. Otani wants to go to Boston. He's made that perfectly clear. So I don't know if I mean, this is the Red Sox. They'll probably fumble that bag like they fumbled many other bags over the last five years.

But yes, thank you, CV. Hope you have a great vacation. I'll keep you guys update on like what this show is going to. look like towards the end of the month. I'm taking time off as well down the stretch. Because I didn't really take a vacation this year. I took like, you know, a couple days here, a couple days there.

But there's going to be some family coming in town and stuff like that. Like my little brother's coming down. So I want to like go and get Florida Mike back in full effect, see some family. But there's so much content we have to do. So it won't be like a full on break. But I'll keep you guys posted. We're not there yet. But have a good trip.

And thank you. Yes, the content has been a plenty this year. It's been wild. It's been wild how much content we have put out this year. Jay Mack, go ahead. Mac, are you there? No. Reconnect.

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Start gifting. Winners find fabulous for less. Ah, Abs Waya, go ahead. Yeah, so Mark, how come in morning? Hope you doing good today. I just have a few questions I want to ask. So firstly, regarding the flyweight division, do you think the UFC is rushing Tyro and Mohamed Makayev as highly new fresh prospects, looking at their age and the kind of competition they're facing?

My second question is, what should the UFC do with Jeff Neal? Because he's kind of stuck now in a position where I feel is going to be half-in-to-get-the-fights-hearly-want. Knowing him, I think he's a really good contender. He's definitely someone I can see reaching the top five at some point in time, maybe the next one, two years. But I'm curious to see what they do with him. I highly doubt, in my opinion, he fights Ian Gary, because Ian Gary is like the golden boy for that division.

Now the Hamasots are gone. And I'm sure they're going to do anything to protect him, get him a top five guy like Kobe Covington if he loses or Leon if he loses, you know, someone like that. But we'll see what happens. And my final question is, there's just more of a statement here, but I just don't see why Islam Mahachev, of all people should be here learning. A fight night card in Saudi Arabia, even if it is a very big card and deal that is administered by Al Turkey, his greatness. Because in my opinion, I'd rather see a hum's up as cost as headlining that card than Islam Makarchev, who is arguably one of the biggest stars in the sports right now and the champion.

and when he should be headlining paper of retail, whether it's Charles, you know, versing him or Justin Gage, you know, that's just my opinion. That's all I have been. Have a great day. They're not going to do that, though. It's not going to be Hamzad. Hamzat's already said he's got surgery. He's going to be out for a minute.

He says he's going to be out for a few months. You have C-300, maybe, for him. But like we've talked about, they have, it seems like they have other plans for Costa right now. looks like they want the Whitaker fight don't know if that's what's going to happen but look machochev if we don't book Machochev on that card he ain't fighting until like May or June do we want to wait that long for the lightweight title to be defended I certainly don't there's too much like there's too much going on right now so he kind of has to fight on that card if he's going to fight anytime soon.

And we want to put him in a position because he's going to, if he wins, they're certainly going to throw him on the Abu Dhabi card. So I kind of feel like they're just going to do that. And they don't need to sell pay-per-views for that because they're getting an exorbitant amount of money just to appear there. They're getting incredible scyphes. So it doesn't even have to be on pay-per-view. Make a splash.

I mean, that's a bigger fight than, it's a way. Like him and Oliver, him and Gaichie is way. for the title is way bigger. Like, that's way more compelling, I think. And you have Shimaev and Kosta, and it's like, yeah, that'd be cool. But what if it falls through? You have two guys you can't heavily rely on. I don't know.

I think you're playing with fire there. Like, you're playing with fire. And Mokachev will fight fucking anybody. Like, if all of Avera falls out again or something and, you know what I mean? And they have to shuffle the deck a little bit. Yeah, I don't think they're going to wait. I don't think they're going to wait that long. And they shouldn't.

If Mokachev wants to do it, I have a feeling they're going to do it. Because they're not going to just book that fight for Miami now. They already announced Sean O'Malley's Enchito Vera is the main event. Why would they throw Mokachev in there? I don't know. Saudi Arabia makes a lot of sense. March should be just a gigantic month for the UFC. Do it that way.

Think of all the subscribers they'll get for that. Be huge. Be huge. Jeff Neal. I don't think Jeff Neal's going to be a top five guy. I really don't. I think that ship has sailed a little bit. Not that he's a bad, like he's a good fighter.

He's 33, and he's gotten opportunities. He's two and three in his last five. He got just run by Wonderboy. Neil Magny beat him convincingly. Got the sputty over Ponziabio. He finished Luque, and then he fought Shafcott. It was a great fight, but he lost. And I think Ian, if Ian beats Luque, he's just, like, Jeff Diel's just in the back burner at this point.

The timing of Jeff getting health issues was super bad. Like, he kind of needed that Ian Gary fight. Now if Ian wins again, if Ian beats Luke, he's just. so far beyond Jeff Neal at this point in the conversation. So who does he fight? I mean, he's definitely going to fight backwards. Boy, how things have turned, huh?

Remember where he was after he knocked out Lucke? We're talking about him fighting maybe Gilbert Burns. Maybe he fights like a JDM? I know there's rumors about JDM fighting Gilbert Burns, but I'm told there's nothing really to that right now. That's just the fight his team wants. Jeff Deal JDM's fun. Jeff Neal Sean Brady's fun.

You do Jeff Deal Kevin Holland if that MVP fight happens or doesn't happen. MVP Jeff Neal could be fun. If he beats Kevin Holland, I mean, there's options. But his road to getting to the top five is going to be kind of a long one at this point. And then are the UFC rushing Mikhail and Tyra? No. They're certainly not rushing Tyra. I think Tyra is a super prospect.

And like God bless Carl Shardandez, but he's a fine fighter. But Tyra should run him. I mean, stylistically, this is about as good as you can get for Tetsu or Tyra. His ground game is just got to be kryptonite for Carla Shandes. So, yeah, I think they're handling Tyra right. And Malky have just finished Tim Elliott, who's the top, I think he's the 12th rank guy. And that was a tough fight. You've got to take a lot away from that.

I think Alex Perez is a good step. Let's just see if Alex can get in the octagon. It's been a rough road for that guy. So, yeah, I think they're treating them just fine. I think the roads are perfect. They are perfect. Cash de God. Mike, what is your favorite memory as a Boston sports fan?

Favorite memory is boss sport? Oh, it's the Red Sox World Series. the first one. We've had a lot. Look, I've had a lot. You know, Patriots winning the Super Bowl and 2001-02 was fucking cool.

Like, that was awesome. No one expected them to win. And then the Rams were just annihilating everybody. And then that was like the beginning of the Tom Brady era. That was, I mean, that was super fun. I remember watching that game.

at Fitchburg State College. We had a good night that night after the Patriots, after Venetary kicked that field goal to win the game. That was a fun night. But the Red Sox winning that World Series, sweeping the Cardinals,

down three out of the Yankees, coming back. I mean, just to do that to the Yankees and then just sweep the World Series without even breaking a sweat, like that was awesome. I cried. I was down on a knee and bawled my eyes out,

My 6'5-275-pound older brother, he was bawling his eyes out. It was the best. Nothing we'll ever top that. Nothing will ever top that one. That was freaking awesome. We've had some good ones, but that was freaking great. J-Mac, do we have you now? No, we don't.

Nope. We'll give you a third shot if we can figure it out. Let's go to Optagon blog Mike how are you doing Good how are you I'm doing fine I like to talk to everyone also to Alexander who is on this podcast about the landscape behind UFC

because especially KSW and also this other promotion Octagon MMA that's a Czech Republic-based company they moving forward they attract a similar number of spectators. Last weekend there was an event in Germany in the same venue as the UFC. Octagon MMA attracted around 17,000 spectators. I like to hear your guys take because everyone is talking about Bellator and PFL.

They are the number two. But outside the U.S., the world is moving on, also in MMA. and you have to look, we have spoken about this before, like in golf, etc., etc. You know, Ram just sign a contract, 300 million with Saudi Arabia. This is also going to happen with the event in Saudi Arabia with the U of C. The world will move on. And we have to forget about PFL and Bellator because that's nothing. And I like to hear your take, Mike, and also from Alexander.

Thank you. Good luck. look I get it um look we like we love we love ksw at m a fighting we love it we we don't cover it like full on but all of us on staff we love ksw we watch a lot of their big cards we have all pretty much said that

you know bucket list items would be to go attend like a ksw stadium show because they just do a great job that they care and their production is incredible and their fights are great the problem is i mean look mma is a global sport yes but the meat and potatoes are in north america just it's just that's what it is um at least as of right now and a lot of these promotions are doing the smart thing octagon has been growing as well ksw octagon's production has been

fucking fantastic too they've done a great job this year ksw always is a great job the problem is with like some of these promotions and they're not making this mistake really one is tried and i think one kind of as cool as it was to see one come to the united states finally at the end of the day it probably wasn't a good decision to come to the united states that should just kind of focus on their area and being like a massive fish over there and i kind of feel like ksw and octagon understand that You know, the hardcore fans will find them. They will find them.

They're not like, they're just not global brands like the UFC. PFL to some extent. Although there's like, there is no buzz for that PFL Europe card later on today. None. I mean none. Zero. So, yeah, look, the hardcores will find them. But they don't need to like expand.

more. I think they have mapped out a niche and a niche and they should kind of stick with where they're at. Be the bucket list promotions. Risen's the same way. A lot of us would be like, do you know, it would be pretty freaking cool going to cover or attend a Rise of New Year's Eve event. But no, like, but to me it's not like, oh, I wish Risen would come to the U.S. I mean, I'd go, but it's not like a wish of mine. You know what I mean? There's got to be some things that are almost feel unattainable, but still cool to watch on television. And I feel like KSW, Octagon, Rise into some extent have done a fantastic job of doing that.

And they've created some good stars as well. Like Roberto Soldeach, man, so good. And I almost kind of, there's a part of me, especially after seeing how some of this is played out, like kind of which sold it stayed at KSW. They offered him a boatload of money. to stay. And which basically, once I

heard that, I kind of felt like the UFC was out of the, out of play because I don't think they were going to be able to match what KSW was offering him. But one doesn't give a shit. They just throw money left and right. So look, in those

areas, they're going to create buzz. And I think they're doing a great job. But from a global brand perspective, PFL is number two, but again, it's not close. it's not close. UFC is so far ahead of them, it's not even funny.

And Luke said it best. The only thing that could hamper the UFC's momentum is not going to be another organization. There is no fighting organization right now, MMA or not, that is going to contest with the UFC in any way, shape, or form. The only thing that could stop their momentum in any way, is something brought down from the government

or something brought down judicially. Other than that, they are just clobbering everybody and it will remain that way until the end of time unless something from the government or from a courtroom makes a dent. Other than that, no one is going to touch them

or even come close to them. UFC has lapped everybody 500 times. and they're just going super-duper fast. The only thing they can stop them is something that is not a fight promotion. But yeah, KSW is great. Octagon's fucking fire. They're all good. But they have a niche and they should stick with it.

What do you think about my best friend? What do you think about my best friend? What's up, everybody? Just chime me in because I was called upon. I know some other people mentioned me being in the room, but I think this particular person, the Octagon Obsess, wanted my input. So, yeah. Octagon Blod.

Octagon blog. Oh, sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. I see the odd type of, I just saw this in. Anyway, a lot of similar names. I mean, just to echo kind of what you said, my best friend,

it's like, we're going to, you know, we cover a lot of the North American motions. That's just where our bread is buttered. That's what we have the manpower for. That's, you know, what, our primary audience is North American fans. Certainly plenty of fans, listeners, readers from around the world.

We hear them all the time on heck of a morning, so I know you guys are out there. But yeah, there's no, there's no real urgency, I think, on the part of the promotions to, like, to feel like they have to be bigger than they are. Because, like we said, KSW is enormous, right? KSW. If they're the biggest, you know, promotion in, I was going to say Poland, really, the biggest promotion in Europe for, you know, until the end of time, that's where they need. That's just where they need to be, right?

They're huge, right? They are, if we're talking just by numbers, I do think, of course, KSW is bigger than Bell Tor is bigger than the PFL. They just don't have that presence in North America. And that may always be the way it's going to be. Like, it's just kind of the way MMA is structured where, again, and you have promotions in Germany. You have promotions in, your promotions all those ways. I'm still waiting for there to be a big one in India.

I know they tried a couple of times, and that could be huge. But this crossover, this need to compare to North America promotions. It doesn't really matter. I bet there's people, like, I'm sure there's fans in Poland who don't care about, a Bell tour of the PFL. They look at Belator and PFL the same way that some North American fans look KSW. They just have no concept of how big it is, why it's necessarily meaningful in that particular country.

And that's okay. This is how sports works sometimes. We've had this issue with football slash soccer for decades, right? I mean, it is the biggest sport in the world. It is in terms of at the pro level, the fifth or sixth or seventh biggest sport in North America, right? So these differences are always going to happen. And it's not a bad thing.

It's not a bad thing. So I'm not sure the question was asking, like, why, why is there not more recognition in the mainstream? And it's like, well, it is just not in America. And I think this goes to prove, as always, that, like, America and Canada, not just singling out my American homies, America, America, the greater North American, you know, blob, is not, is not the, we're not the center of the universe, right? So a promotion like KSW doesn't have to, shouldn't sweat like, oh, will we ever make in the U.S.?

Who cares? Who cares? They're one of the biggest promotion in Europe. Do they need to ever make in America? Probably not, right? Mainstream is relative, right? Mainstream is relative to where you live. So I'd be great someday if we had more, if more MMA fans, regardless of the way they were,

watched everything around the world because it's easier to watch than ever. But, you know, that may never happen. And if it doesn't happen, I don't think that's like the worst thing in the world. So I would just say, guys, MMA is supposed to be fun. So expand your interest. Go find it. Go out there. Go find it.

There's so much good stuff. And a lot of it's free. It's free on YouTube. You can find it easily. You can replay it, watch it your leisure. Miss Fiss. Guys, read Misfis every week. A lot of great stuff that, excuse me.

A lot of great clips that are compiled by Gravaca, or Coposa, Gravaca hitman, I'd say. Barella La Piera, Amazing Twitter account. Guys, follow these accounts. Follow these accounts. And you won't miss all the amazing I've made that's happening. And if anything, just to see guys who, guys and gals will probably fight in your favorite.

motion someday in North America. Thank you, my best friend. Always love having you on. Way in starting at Top the hour. All right, so I have three people in line. I get Jared. I'm going to try J-Mac one more time, and I got Emilio. This needs to be rapid, rapid fire.

All right? I got like five minutes at the most. So we've got to go rapid fire. Jared, go ahead. Hey, I'm sorry if this is a repeat in any way, but I just wanted to come in here and ask you what your thoughts are on this upcoming fight night tomorrow. What are you excited for?

whose names do you have circled. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Pretty, it's, it's, look, in terms of stakes in divisional relevancy, there's two, it's a two-fight card. It's the top two fights. But on, like, it's gonna be a fun watch,

like it is. Tetsura, Tyra, I've been super high on him for a while. There's some other up-and-comers. Like, the main card's pretty good. Like, on Germany's, you know, This is a guy who at the beginning of the year we were like, this dude could fight for the belt. And he's been on a tough run.

And the Iron Turtle's been looking real good. So that's a good fight. Hackpress Malarkey should be fun. Tim Elliott stepping in on short notice against Sue Mederrejee's fun. Anthony Smith stepping in to fight Cleo Roundtree. Roundtree's been on a good run, but Anthony Smith could beat him. Like, he could beat him.

And if Anthony Smith wins, like, who, I mean, Jesus Christ. where he could go, he could get a title shot if he beats Khalil Roundtree. Like, that could happen. I know from my meritocracy perspective, it makes no sense. But he could get a title shot if he wins for taking this fight on short notice. If they want to keep Pereira busy, he could get a title shot. And then song get on Chris Gutierrez is a really good fight. So I think this will be a fun watch.

This is a good, this is a good solid apex card. It's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. J-Mack, do we have you? I think we do. Yes, finally. Geez, third time's a charm, I guess. Yes.

Anyhow, so Mike, yes, since it's free-for-all Friday, I just want to learn a little bit more about you. I want to know if you've ever trained jihitsu or any kind of martial art. And I also want to know what sports you played in high school and which ones you'd excel at. And did you play any college sports. All right, we'll take that off the air. Thanks, Mike. Have I trained?

I did it for like a year. and honestly like the one thing that really kept me from it is just I didn't really I just didn't really have the time to do it I would have liked to have done it more I just really didn't have the time and as people know who I've trained it ain't cheap it ain't cheap and I'm the kind of guy that you know if I'm going to spend money I want to make it worth my while and if I'm spending you know 100 150 a month on something I want to make sure I go. And I spend pretty good money training now doing the CrossFit stuff, which I friggin' love. But it's a lot more flexible to my schedule.

So I can do it a lot more because of the price tag. It forces me to go a lot more. But so the timing just actually worked out. So I did some Jiu-Jitsu, did some M-M-A stuff. Obviously, I like the striking, the kickboxing stuff a lot. Love hitting pads. I had a punch bag for a while and just crack it. It was, but just the timing of it.

I don't know. I didn't really love it. I mean, I love watching it, but it just wasn't really for me. I do like hitting things. I did enjoy that part of it. As far as sports goes, I played football and baseball in high school. I did like intramural basketball and stuff. I was the intramural basketball star, so to speak.

I just didn't like to run plays in basketball. It just wasn't my thing. I just like to run around and get open and shoot threes. That was basically my M.O. And yeah, so it was really for me. I got recruited to wrestle a bunch, but like, baseball is my sport. I liked football because it helped me let out some aggression.

I did enjoy that. We had a really good senior year. So I did like football a lot. But baseball is by jam. So I would spend the winters just getting, ready for baseball season. Do baseball in the spring. We'd do summer baseball.

Would do fall baseball. We had football, but fall baseball was on Sunday. So I'd do fall baseball. And then I did two years of college baseball. And then I realized that college wasn't for me. And that was it. Yeah, I was a baseball guy. Still am.

Still am. But now I'm doing like the old man softball thing. But I play it like I'm... I play it and I dive around like a madman. My knees and my elbows are just torn to shit from like diving for ground balls and line drives. Yeah, I'm that dude. I'm the 40-year-old who thinks every game is the World Series. I'm that guy.

But yes, thank you for the question. Emilio, close us out. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate you. I'm going to keep it short and sweet. Who do you see, how do you see the commentary booth looking like in five to ten years from now when it comes to the UFC commentating booth. Do you still see Joe, D.C. and John, I mean, I definitely do see John Attic still doing his thing.

The guy's the goat, but I don't know about the other two. Maybe Laura Sanko in there as well. Yeah, just wanted to get your take on that. Appreciate you. Have a heck of a weekend. Thanks, man. I don't think a lot's going to change. I don't think a lot's going to change.

Five to ten years, I don't think Rogan will be there for, five to ten years. But it all depends. Because Rogan said a million times, like, once Dana White is out, he's out too. So he's going to go basically as long as Dane is there. So he likes doing it. Rogan has a different kind of a schedule when it comes to that. Rogan skill does a show, makes a floppy trillion dollars doing that.

He still gets to do the comedy stuff. And then he just basically goes and does Fight Week for two days. goes and does the ceremonial weigh-ins and then calls the fights and he goes home. Pretty good gig. Doesn't have to go international. Just has to do the U.S. pay-per-views. Pretty good gig. So, Dane is still there.

I think he still is around five to ten years. But if there's one guy, I think may not be there. It might be him. D.C. is interesting because he's getting bigger and bigger. He's getting more popular. And I've said this for a while. And people who gave me shit for this like three or four years ago. but like I said like three or four years ago that DC could host like a like a nationally like a national morning show like Michael Strahan does Good Morning America.

There is a real world where Daniel Cornier is one of those guys. Like I could absolutely see that happening. So if that's the case, will he still do like a lot of commentary gigs? I'm not really sure. But I honestly think that DC's going to get more popular and he's going to get a lot. more opportunities. Perhaps he gets a gig with WWE. And I think he would do really well there as well. Sanko, I think, is going to get a lot more reps. I know she's doing the broadcast on Saturday. I would like to see her do the broadcast for UFC 297. I think that'd be a great spot for her second

pay-per-view appearance because Rogan's not going to go to Toronto. Get Sanko in there. That'd be great. I like Paul Felder in there a lot. I think he does a great job. Bisving will probably still be there. And I would like to see Anthony Smith get a shot. And I would like to see Mike, not Michael Busing. I would like to see Michael Kiesa get a shot as well. But yeah, I think, I think Anik will be a staple.

The one thing I think would take Anik out of the, and I don't know if it would take him out. But I think the only thing I think would get Anik out of there is if he got like a full-time NFL gig, like being an NFL play-by-play guy. But I don't know, but maybe he would still do UFC, too? I don't know. So long story short, I think the commentary remains pretty much the same.

I think Brennan Fitzgerald's done a great job. I think he just called, I think UFC Austin was his hundredth broadcast. I like Brennan a lot. He was a great guy. fellow New England as well I mean look at the play by play guys are all coming from

from New England or or England I guess because John Gooden's very good too and I'm very excited to hear him on the broadcast this Saturday John to me is super underutilized I know they're finding some more stuff for him on

dot com and I think on fight pass as well but John is incredibly talented uh they There is no shortage of great broadcast talent within that company. There's no shortage of it. John's very good.

Megan O'Levy is incredible. Heidi Endrault does a great job as well. I like when she's on those broadcasts. They have no shortage of talent. They have no shortage of talent. So I would like to see Anthony Smith get his shot. I'd like to see Michael Keyeson get his shot to do some color. And yeah.

I just think more talent, we'll see some more talent come up. But yeah, they're in a pretty good spot right now. They're in a pretty good. Dominic Cruz, I think, will be around for a hot minute doing it as well. So they're in a pretty good position from that standpoint. So all right, everybody, thank you all very much. I appreciate you. Preview show 1 p.m. Easter.

We will see you then. We'll be back here on Tuesday to kick off a big week. There's going to be a lot going on. We obviously have UFC 296. I will be heading to Orlando on Wednesday for the Jake Paul fight. That will be my gig this week. And then I will be there Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then fly out first thing Saturday morning to New York to meet up with G.C. and the fellas for the UFC 296 watch party,

which should be an incredible amount of fun. And I think AK will have to join us on that. for one fight in particular. And it may be the Patty Pimblech versus Tony Ferguson fight because he's the one that made this all happen for good or for bad. So it's going to be a fun week. So stay tuned. But until then, everybody, have a great rest of your Friday.

And have a heck of a morning, everybody.