MMA Fighting - HOAM | UFC 291 Fallout, Tony Ferguson's Future; Plus, Kenny Florian Joins the Show

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

UFC 291 was an event where the highs were extremely high, and the lows were very low, but there's a lot to unpack from this past Saturday's pay-per-view offering, including where Tony Ferguson now goes after suffering his sixth consecutive loss. On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck takes social media questions from listeners and discusses Ferguson's submission loss to Bobby Green, and if the UFC were to allow him to have one more fight, who the ideal opponent should be. Additionally, listener topics include Alex Pereira's win over Jan Blachowicz and the latter suggesting he was robbed by the judges, Justin Gaethje's BMF title win and which matchup would be more interesting for Gaethje when he fights the Islam Makahchev vs. Charles Oliveira 2 winner, the potential buy-rate for Jake Paul vs. Nate Diaz, Jamahal Hill blasting the MMA Fighting Global Rankings, and more. Plus, PFL color commentator Kenny Florian joins the show to preview Friday's PFL Playoffs event, talks Derrick Lewis' free agency and a potential rematch with Francis Ngannou in the PFL, Paul vs. Diaz and the chances a second fight could happen in MMA, and a potential merger with Bellator. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. The Vox Media Podcast Network. It is Tuesday, August 1st, 2023, and it is indeed a heck of a morning. We are not live, and we are here on the M.M.A. Fighting Podcasting Network.

No Twitter spaces today because by the time you hear this, actually, I mean, it might be a little bit before, but by the time this goes the way at the time the show normally starts, I will be getting ready to hop on a plane to Dallas, Texas for the Jake Paul versus Nate Diaz boxing match going down this Saturday. And I am very excited. The entire our crew is going to be there as well. But we are doing a show. I am Mike Heck. Thank you for joining us. It's going to be a different kind of a show. We solicited some questions via Twitter, via social media, and we got about a handful of them. So we'll answer those questions. And also, earlier today as we record, I got to speak with the great Kenny Florian. He will be part of the broadcast on Friday for the first P.F.F. NFL playoffs event, which will feature the feather weights and the light heavyweights vying for a spot in the finals, chance to win a million dollars, main event Bubba Jenkins versus Jesus Panato, other featherweight semi-final matchup, Gabriel Braga versus Chris Wade.

And in the light heavyweight matchups, Josh Silvera versus Ty Flores. We'll see Martin Hamlet versus former UFC middleweight contender, Impa Kasang and I. And there'll be other fights on the card as well. Keone Diggs, fighting for the PFL against Elvin Espinoza. Desirellas versus Lisa Malden is going to be a crazy fight. Anthony Ivy, former UFC fighter on the card against Carson Hardman. And there are 10 total fights. Prelims will be on ESPN Plus.

Main card will start Friday at 9 p.m. Eastern on ESPN. I believe it'll still be on ESPN Plus as well. It's going to be in San Antonio. So go ahead and check that out. It's going to be a very busy weekend in the weekend. World of Combat Sports. We're coming off of an insane weekend this past weekend in the World of Combat Sports with Spence Crawford. That fight was, I mean, just crazy. What a performance from Bud Crawford getting it done against Errol Spence. We had UFC 291. Incredible knockoff from

Justin Gauche against Dustin Porre to win the BMF title. He will likely get the winner of the Islam Makachev Charles Olivaire rematch coming heading going down in October at UFC 2994 Alex Pereira about to fight for his second title already in the UFC defeat yonbovich see a lot of people screaming robbery on that one I'm not really sure why I felt Pereira won that fight thought he won rounds two and three I have no problem with scorecard I thought it was not like super clear but Even on the rewatch, I watched it a little earlier this morning as we record, and my score stays exactly the same.

29, 28, Alex Pereira. He will likely go on and fight Yuri Perashka, maybe later on this year, maybe early next year for the vacant title. What a freaking fight. That's going to be Derek Lewis with the greatest free agency announcement of all time. After knocking out Marcus Ruggiero to Lima, I talked to Kenny Florian about that. The potential maybe of him signing with the PFL.

could we get the Francis and Ghanu Derek Lewis rematch? Because I just don't see a world where that fight is stinky like the first one was. A lot of options for Derek Lewis. He's in a great position. He says he hopes to resign with the UFC. But honestly, why would he resign? I know he's comfortable there and comfort's great, but there's a lot of opportunity for Derek Lewis outside of the UFC,

the PFO one in particular, getting comfortable. couple milly to fight Francis and Ghanu. Maybe get another big fight. Maybe explore the world of bare-knuckle boxing. I just think there's a lot of money on the table for Derek Lewis right now. And he's probably

on the back nine. He's getting up there in age and he's over like Rover right now. So it's going to be a very interesting time for Derek Lewis. There's a couple of fights that I'd be interested in the UFC. Like if we can get the Jarzino fight, I feel like that fight, should have been made about 300 times by now.

There's that one. But like what else is there? Does he fight like Andre Orlovsky? I don't want to see him play marching Taibora. I don't really want to see him fight Alexander Romanov. Maybe Paco Pora. That would be fun. But yeah, it's going to be a very interesting time for Derek Lewis.

What a performance. Maybe the best six minutes of UFC content I've seen in a long time between the flying knees. the finish, everything. Throwing, taking the shorts off, the crotch shops, the dancing, the free agency announcement, everything. Absolutely incredible. Bobby Green defeated Tony Ferguson.

Submits him in the third round. Kevin Holland submits Michael Kiesa in the first round. What a card that was. We had Bellator versus Risen. We had the Super Risen 2. Petitio Pitbull getting knocked out in one of the big upsets of the year. Just a crazy weekend. And it's going to be another very crazy.

weekend coming up with Jake Paul versus Nate Diaz, PFL as I just mentioned, UFCs in Nashville for the Corey Sanhagan versus Rob Fonk card, Tatiana Suarez versus Jessica Androge on that card. It's a pretty good one. But there will be no shortage of combat sports action, that's for sure. So my conversation with Kenny Florian coming up a little bit later on, we talk about Jake Paul versus Nate Diaz. We talk about a whole bunch of stuff. So we will get to that conversation at the tail end of the show.

I did get some questions. So let's go to them right now. We'll start with Crystal, a long time heck of a morning listener. She's usually always on the live streams. And she submits a question. Her question is, Poetan, Alex Pereira, got the win via splitie at 291. What do you think of his performance? And what do you think of Jan's comments about him being, quote, unquote, robbed of that

W was Belhovic robbed? Was he robbed? No. It was a close fight. I thought Alex Pereira won. I gave it the respect of a rewatch just to make sure I wasn't crazy. And on the rewatch, I scored it exactly the same, 29, 28. Look, you can get takedowns all you want, but if you don't do anything with them, it doesn't matter. And Alex Pereira, those leg kicks, everything he was doing, he just did more damage in the third round. I thought he won. I thought he won the fight. So I don't think he was robbed. If I'm Yanbovovich, am I going to, say I got hosed a little bit, of course. And I think most competitors would do that. What do I think of Alex Pereir's performance? Thought it was great. Thought it was great. Now, that was the only fight on the main card that went to a decision.

And if you had asked me a couple days or even like 15 minutes before that fight happened, Alex Pereer is going to win, but he's going to be the only guy in the main card to not get a finish. I'd have been like, you're insane. There's no chance that happens. but I think we learned a lot about Alex Pereira. I think we've seen some evolution in his game. Yes, Jan Boehovic got very, very tired. And even on the rewatch, it was so funny because I laid out my prediction for that fight.

I thought, you know what? Jan's going to have the first round exactly like he had. He's going to get a nicely timed takedown in round two. Pereira's going to get up to his feet. Jan's going to be a little tired. He's going to shoot a lazy takedown attempt, and he's going to get flying need in the face. didn't happen but even on the rewatch i was still on the edge of my seat like oh my god this is unbelievable it's going to happen my prediction is going to be it's going to happen

it's going to happen and it didn't but still good stuff good performance alex perera fighting uri per has going to be absolutely insane and i do not think yambehovich got robbed so good win for alex perrera learned a lot about him And there you go. Next question. This is from Brent W. On Twitter, do you think the UFC needs to hype up the pressers a little more

or spice them up in some way? It may just be the fact most of the latest fights were between some more friendly acquaintances, but it seems lately that it has been dull. The pressers are tough, man. They're tough. And those pressers are for the fans.

It's for the fans to be in the same building as the fighters, to hear what they have to say, to see them face off. It's for the fans. It's not really for the media. And it's not even really for the fans who are watching the streams. It's more so for the fans that are in the local area. Last week's case, or this past weekend, the Salt Lake City fans, get them out, get them seeing their fighters up on stage, the ones that they're going to be cheering for, the ones that perhaps they'll see compete. Even the fans that couldn't afford the high-priced tickets, gives them something to do where they didn't have to pay a bunch of money

to be in there with the fighters that they like. So I get it from that aspect. Now, from a media perspective, from a viewer perspective, watching it at home, boy, these are tough. They're tough. They're tough watches. Some of the questions are rough. It's just, and I say this all the time,

and I'm not trying to pinpoint anybody or talk crap, just because you're there, covering a card, and this isn't just for press conferences, it doesn't mean you have to ask a question. It does not mean that. If you have a question in mind, hey, if I get my chance, I'm going to ask this, if it's already been asked, then let's just move this along a little bit. And another problem is the media day structure is just, it's tough because we're getting scrums from all the fighters who are going to appear at the press conference. And most hardcore fans are going to watch those individual scrums, whether it's with us or on the UFC's YouTube or whatever,

like what else, what different is there to ask them that you haven't already heard? So I really miss the old style media days where the fighters would kind of sit in a chair and the media members should go up like one at a time and just do like quick five minute hits with as many as they can get to in the allotted time. And then the press conference just seems a little more interesting because you're hearing from everybody, but doing the media days the way we're doing now, we're just, we're scrum them. It's, you don't get anything different. And at that point, they've already done the media days. They did media on Wednesday. Now they're doing the press comments on Thursday.

And they're just like, oh, they're going to cut weight and get ready to fight on Friday. Like, it's tough. It's tough. I'm not really sure how you can hype up the press conferences. They're just not really that enjoyable. It really just comes down to, can the pot be stirred? Can we get some sort of back and forth from somebody? And then will we get some interesting faceoffs or anything like that? Because that's what's all about. Other than that, I don't know how you fix the pressers.

I just don't, I don't really see it. I don't really see it. Like I said, just going back sort of to the old meaty day style where you get one-on-ones with the fighters or you do like small scrums. Maybe that'll make things a little bit better. but other than that, I just kind of think this is what we're going to get. And look,

and I'm not saying this is a bad thing from the UFC. The UFC is on cruise control right now in a lot of respects because they are winning the game. They are so far ahead of everybody else. They're making so much money that they don't really need to go the extra mile because they have nothing behind them, really. Like even Bellator and 1 and PFL, like they're trying to move up the ladder, but they're battling for number 2,

but it's number 2 by a lot. Like, nothing is going to scare the UFC. Nothing is going to make them lose sleep. Even if PFL and Bellator merges, which I do talk to Kenny about a little bit, just to get his perspective on the rumor and innuendo. The UFC's not going to lose an ounce of sleep over it. None. Because no one's going to touch them.

And when you don't have competition, you can kind of cruise along. And your branding is just so strong right now that you don't need to go out and do anything extra. So, excuse me. But that's where we're at right now. It's just really what it is. Marshall's buyers travel far and wide, hustling for great deals on amazing gifts. So you don't have to.

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On link on C4A.com or in magazine. What else do we got here? Let's go to Eric. Can anyone still argue that father time and the wars in the octagon haven't caught up with Tony Ferguson? I think a lot of fans would like to see him retire right now but if you could have a Robbie Lawler-style

retirement fight slash send-off, who would you pick as Tony's opponent? So, look, I, I think you can't argue against the father time and just the battles catching up to him. And I would point out the Justin Gachie fight in particular. Justin just kind of took his soul that night and Tony hasn't really been able to get it back. And the best we can kind of hope for is flashes, right?

We saw it in the Michael Chandler fight, drop Michael Chandler in the first round and then he got punted into the third row in just one of the nastiest knockouts you'll ever see. And even in this fight with Bobby Green, I felt like Tony had a chance to win. In hindsight, Tony didn't look very good. He looked real old. And it was just kind of tough to watch. Now, I will say this, I feel like the eye poke changed the momentum of the fight. Now, do I think Bobby Green would have lost if he didn't poke Tony Ferguson in the eye? No, I'm not saying that.

But Tony was looking okay. He dropped Bobby Green. Bobby wasn't fully recovered from that. Then the eye poke happens. and Bobby Green got three plus minutes to get his wits to him, and the entire momentum of the fight changed from there. Am I saying that he did it on purpose? Of course not.

Things happened, but that certainly played a factor in this fight. The entire momentum of it changed. So, and it's kind of unfortunate because Tony did come out and make a statement saying, like, if I didn't get essentially saying the I poke kind of killed me, and you can make that case. Because who knows how the rest of the fight would have gone. I still think Bobby would have got going

and probably still would have won that fight. But yeah, that eye poke was tough. As far as what I want to see him next, if we're up to me, if Tony calls me and says, Mike, what should I do? I'd say, go ahead and retire. Call it a day. But if he's going to do another one,

UFC 300. You do Tony Ferguson versus Joe Lozon, double retirement fight. It's a fight Tony can win. It's a fight Joe can win. And it'd just be kind of cool to see those two getting after it. Two guys who get after it. Joe Lozahn likes to get things done real quick.

Tony has looked good in first rounds. So I don't think that fight gets out of the first round. It'd be sad to see Tony lose. It'd be sad to see Joe lose. But at the same token, I think that's the kind of fight that would kind of let both them know like this is it. And I think both would feel, damn, this is a pretty good opponent to have. So I would like that.

I know AK is pushing for the Patty fight, and I just think that's a long gone at this point. I don't think Patty gains a ton from it. Now, if they did that, like, a year ago, maybe, I just don't think Patty gains a whole lot from this anymore, and I kind of don't want to see it. I think Patty kind of just puts the boots to Tony, and I just don't really want to see that.

I hated it a little bit less, but then after watching what Bobby Green did to Tony on Saturday, I just don't want to see it. it's worse than it was before. So I think Tony versus Joe Lozahn's fine. Tony versus Jim Miller is fine. Somebody like that. I think we're on the vet tour.

I don't want to see Tony fighting at Jalen Turner or anybody like that. Or Grant Dawson or one of these guys that are just going to probably just truck him. If he's got to do one more, let's give him a vet. And I'm cool with that. But yeah, it's tough to watch. These are pretty tough to watch. Scott McCraight, same question as I asked for Spence Crawford and UFC 291. Best guests of pay-per-view vise for Paul Diaz and will it hit the 500K mark.

Thanks, Mike. You guys killed it all last week. Most fun combat sports week for me this year. War Gachy wore the highlight. Will it break 500K? I think it's got a chance. Now it's going to be on ESPN Plus pay-per-view as well. I do think it's going to hit 500K.

Even the, like, the build to this fight this week is going to be pretty, pretty interesting. There's going to be, I mean, just a ton of coverage. You know, like I said, the M.A. Hour, we're all, like, I'm going to be out there. The entire M.A. Hour crew is going to be out there. There's going to be just so much talk about the build to this fight. I do think it will break 500K. I think Nate's a big enough star to get it over that mark. So, yeah, I do.

I do think it will hit 500K. Do I think it's going to do a million? God, no, but I could see it doing like 6, 650. I could see it happening. And it's just hilarious that UFC Nashville is going to be on ESPN Plus and Jake Paul Nate Diaz is also going to be on ESPN Plus at the same exact time. So kind of ironic that that is happening. So yeah, I think it's going to do pretty well.

Sumo Fall Takes on Twitter Who's the better opponent for Justin Gaichi? Charles or Islam in which fight would you rather see? Ooh. Hmm. I mean, I kind of want to see the Islam fight. I think Islam wins, but it's a fresh matchup. It's different.

But Oliver's a good one too. I don't know. I think you can make cases for both. I think the freshest of Islam. Gachi did do pretty well against Habib until he got stopped in the second. I think he would have success against Islam in a lot of respect, especially with the striking, the leg kicks.

I think he brings some different things to the table. I think he's much wiser, yet still the chaos factor that he brings to each fight. So I'd be intrigued by that one, but the Charles fight would just be a straight, just car wreck in the best possible way. And I think Justin kind of wants that one back after feeling Charles's power and getting finished

after looking so good in that fight. I think you make a case for both. I think from a fan's perspective, I think most fans would rather see the Charles rematch because it's just got to be guaranteed fireworks. Not saying the Islam fight can't, but I don't know. At this point, I look at Justin Gagey,

kind of how I looked at Carlos Condit. I just feel that when it's all said and done, when Justin does decide to, call it a career. I just don't want to just I don't want to talk about Justin Gaichie without saying at some point he won the undisputed lightweight title. Like winning an interim title is cool. Winning the BMF title is cool. But not being able to say Justin Gaichie was an undisputed lightweight champion. It's going to be tough. And I feel like we're going to be talking about Dustin Porre the same way like in that respect. Because I don't know if Dustin gets

back. There's not really a whole lot of fights for Dustin at this point that I think would really get him up to continue on. Maybe Nate comes back and he fights Nate. I don't think he fights Colby. Maybe he does if there's a title online. Like if Colby beats Leon and asked for it, could he do that for his chance? Maybe. But yeah, if Dustin's not going to get mentioned with that title, it's going to be really difficult to not mention Justin and Dustin as both this fight. who've never won the undisputed title. So what a performance. I mean, Justin just continues to evolve and get better.

It's pretty incredible to watch. It's pretty incredible to watch. We had a lot of people reach out talking about how much they enjoyed the watch party. It was so fun. It was so fun. Some people asking about Jamal Hill crapping on our light heavyweight rankings. Don't want to talk about that. Maybe I'll talk about that in a minute.

We get another question here. Where the heck is it? I just saw it. JSTAT 504. Frequence heck of a morning contributor. What's next for Gabriel Bonfim? Yes, he made very quick work of Trevin Giles. Good matchmaking there.

I think it was just one of those showcase kinds of fights. Bonfine brothers are good. I think Gabriel has a little more upside, I think. Who should he fight? Jake Matthews isn't a bad idea. Eurus Meditch is kind of fun. I know it's kind of lazy matching guys up who fought on the same card. Gunner Nelson is interesting.

But I think I'm going to go with Randy Brown. I like the Randy Brown fight. Yeah, let's go with that. Let's test him. Let's see what he can do. Throw him in there with Randy Brown. I think he would be, he could hang. Even if he loses, like, okay, we took a shot and saw.

But even if Randy wins, I don't think it's one where he just absolutely annihilates him. But yeah, I like Randy Brown. I like Randy Brown a lot. So that could be a fun one. Do I want to address this Jamal Hill thing? Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrance sets. Our special selection has something for every style and price point.

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Let me just pull it up for context. So as you record Monday, we did our ranking shakeup and we talked about the light heavyweight rankings. And right now we posted our new rankings. Uri Perashka, we have a number one, Vadim Nemcoff, number two, Magabanaqalaf, number three, Jamalil, Hill, number four, Alex Pereira, number five. And then it's Corey Anderson, Janbovich, Rackich, Johnny Walker. Nikita Krilov, Phil Davis, Anthony Smith, Ryan Span, Anatoly Malkin, Volcanozdemair. Now, just looking at this list, if there's one name that I feel is in a bad spot for sure,

it's probably Anatoly Malkin. I think you probably should be a little bit higher on that list. I mean, if you want to have Malkin as a top 10, 205er, I am not here to blame you at all. But Jamal Hill reacted to these rankings and said, quote, This is a casual fan girl rankings. Can there, no real fight experience behind this outlet? First of all, there is fight experience behind this outlet because Jose is fought and Casey Liden still fights.

Both Casey's on the panel. So there you go. I know Jamal feels disrespected by the rankings. I think there are some fans as well who feel like Jamal is being. a little disrespected and look this isn't this ain't the ufc rankings man this is there's a lot that go into these it's not just well who has the title and who does this and who does that like there's more to it than that like you can't just win a ufc title and you're automatically number one it doesn't work that way it doesn't and while i feel like jamal hill

I mean, look, let me just say this. The timing of his injury could not be any worse. It could not be any worse when it comes to this discussion. And if Jamal Hill feels disrespected, I get it. Like, I'm not here to argue with him. If you want to have Jamal Hill number two or number one, like, cool. I'm not here. Like, this is not to argue.

Like, let me pull up, let me pull up my rankings for context here. Let me pull up mine. I have Jamal Hill number four. So I'm right with the, I'm, literally right with the rankings. Prahashka, Nemcoff, Ancolaev, Hill, Pereira. Jamal Hill won the title in a weird way. He beat the hell out of Glover Tashira. Best performance of his career. The timing of his injury sucks because had he not gotten injured and had he beaten Yuri Perashka, he would be number one with a bullet. He's 1,000% number one. He is. But he just, to me, he's just,

not there like it was just very strange how he got to the title in the first place and his wins that like are fine paul he lost to paul craig two years ago like lost bad lost bad to paul craig then he knocks out jimmy crute not a rank guy anymore knocked out johnny walker knocked out tago santos no longer in the ufc and then he beat glover teshara who is retired in a fight that came together because Magamenekelaif and Jan Bojavich fought to a draw. And Dana hated the fight. So let's take titles out of this. Let's take titles out of it.

If you took titles out of this, would you have Jamal Hill as your number one light heavyweight in the world? It's a serious question. Would you have him as your number one light heavyweight in the world? Does he have number one potential? God, yeah. 100%. That Glover-Teshire a win is going to age pretty well. He looked sensational.

And I was getting real. I mean, I was officially not saying that Jamal couldn't be like a champion and be a long-reaning champion. The town was always there. It was just kind of putting it all together. It seems like he was on the way of putting it all together. But I don't know. It's just so weird how it all came together and not having him fight again. Since winning the title was tough.

There's just a lot to it. And when you're torn on certain things, you have to put into account that this is, these are not UFC rankings. These are across the globe rankings. And let's just look at the names on this list. Right now, if I was to pick, if Jamal Hill wasn't hurt,

if he fought Yuri Perashka, who would I pick? I would pick Yuri. I would pick Yuri. I wouldn't be incredibly confident in that pick, but I would favor Yuri Parashka to win that fight. Jamal Hill versus Vadim Nemcoff. I would pick Vadim Knavvvv. Jamalilov.

I would pick Mogameneke-Av. Then we get to Alex Pereira. I would probably pick, I would probably I would probably pick Jamal Hill in that fight, but it wouldn't surprise me if Alex beat him. Corey Anderson versus Jamal Hill. Could you confidently pick Jamal Hill in that fight?

Jan Behoevich versus Jamal Hill. I'd probably pick Jamal Hill. But am I running to the betting window with that pick? I don't know. And then I think he beats rackets. He already beat Walker.

I think he beats Krilov, Davis, Smith, Span, Ozed Amir. Malkin is interesting. But, I mean, I think, like, if you take titles out of it, I think, I don't think they're that bad. I don't think they're that bad. I think you can make a case for Vadim Nemcoff being number one.

I think you can make a better case for Vrudeemn Mok being number one than Jamal Hill. It's not just, well, this guy was the champion and he vacated. It's not like, this is different. This is a different division altogether. I'm not going to rank Justin Gaichi number one because he won the BMF title. You can't do that. And there are times where Charles Olivera, who was the lightweight champion, was not number one. in our rankings.

We had Dustin Porre one for a while. I think we had Gaichi won for a hot minute too. But it's not just, oh, you want a title. There's more that goes into it than that. And we had said this after Hill won the belt. His next fight is going to tell us everything. And I think we all said unanimously, Jamal Hill beats Yuri Perashka.

He's the number one guy. He's number one without question. there is no more debate. But to say you can't have a debate right now is just not true. It's just not true. So look, if I'm Jamal Hill, you want to come out and be angry, go ahead. You want to feel disrespected? Cool.

If that adds a chip on your shoulder, do it. Like have that chip. That's good. It shows you care and that's good. But I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with this. I don't. I think this is fair. I think this is fair.

Jamal's a win away from being out of the top four. Being number two, probably number one. Because he's going to fight Erie or Pereira next. When he comes back, all he got to do is win one more. And then this isn't a conversation anymore. But just the way he won the belt and just what this division has been like, since John Jones left, it's been a mess. This is more about the division.

vision, then Jamal Hill. And as great as he looked against Glover Tashara, he didn't beat Yuri Parashka. He didn't beat Yuri that night. And Yuri in most people's minds is the number one light heavyweight. And until

the time frame comes where he hadn't fought in 18 months and we have to pull him from the rankings, Yuri's number one. Like, I just, Yuri's the champ. Like, Yuri's the guy who never lost the belt in a fight. And I'm still convinced to this day that this wasn't Yuri being the samurai.

I'm just going to vacate the title because it's the right thing to do. No, I don't think that's fully the case. And I think Yuri has pretty much said as much. I think he was kind of like, you know, I think there were a conversation with the UFC. And they're like, maybe go ahead and vacate the belt. We'll present it like this. It's like a coach. I mentioned this to Terry Francona.

Like the Red Sox are never going to fire Terry Francona. Even when they had a couple of terrible seasons, they weren't going to fire Terry Francona. The dude was the head coach, was the manager of the Red Sox, and they broke the curse and won a couple of World Series. But they're not going to come. Like the Red Sox, because of what he meant was not going to come out and say, oh, we fired Terry Francona today. No, they're going to position it as we both agreed to part ways, even though he was fired. And that's what this was like. Look, dude, we're going to take the belt off you.

And, well, let's put it in a position where, like, you volunteered to do it and it makes you look better. And Yuri's kind of said that much as well without actually saying it. And now Jamal's doing the same thing. And I just don't think there's that big of a problem with putting Jamal Hill number four. He didn't beat number one. Yuri's not still number one. Yuri didn't lose the title in a fight. And he hasn't, we have not passed the 18 month window yet.

So to me, Yuri's still number one. Now, if you want to put Jamal, like, I just don't, I don't love Jamal Hill versus Anka Live in a fight. Like, I think those two are pretty even. Vadim Nemcoff might just be the best late heavyweight in the world, but he's in Bellator. But we know skill for skill, he's right up there. Like, I don't think this is that disrespectful.

I really don't. But again, I have no issue with Jamal being upset about it. But we're having the same conversation we had in January. We've already done this. Nothing has really changed. The only thing that has changed in these rankings is that Vadim Nemcoff took a bit of a jump after he ran over Corey Anderson. And Alex Pereira beating Janbovich, bumped him up to number five.

Like, that's really been the only big change since January. So I don't know why this is an issue now. It's not like, it's not like Jamal is number one that we dropped him to number four. No, Yuri's been number one with us for a while now since he won the title. So until you beat him, no one can be number one. If Alex Pereira beats Yuri Perashka, he's going to be number one because he beat the number one guy. Jamal Hill did not beat the number one guy. He did win the UFC title and that's great.

And he made a big leap from where he was. but he didn't beat the number one guy. So I don't understand why it's a huge problem. But, hey, this is what this is all about. You're allowed to have your opinion. I stand by putting Jamal Hill at number four. No one's going to change my mind except for Jamal Hill. You come back.

You beat either Yuri or Alex, whoever is the champion when you return. You go out there and you beat them for the belt. You're number one. Plain and simple. That's it. The number one guy. was beaten by you, so you're number one. That's how it's going to work.

And that's how it worked. Just because you win a UFC title in a weird way, when there was no champion and you beat a guy who was going to retire no matter what, who was not the number one ranked light heavyweight, that doesn't just guarantee you number one. This isn't the only division where we do this. We've done it in the past. Like I said, perfect example.

Charles Olivera was the lightweight champion for a hot minute. And I don't think he, He was, I think he got to number one after he beat Justin Gagey. But he wasn't before. There was a stretch of time when he was the champion that he wasn't ranked number one. The title's great and it's going to give you some points, but it's not everything in our rankings. So there you go. I mean, I have a ton of respect for Jamal Hill.

And again, I respect his opinion. Could have went about it a different. way, but oh well, I don't care at the end of the day. Stand by it. That certainly isn't going to change my mind. And like I said, the only thing that's going to change my mind is him beating the number, is beating Yuri Perashka or Alex Pereira. Whoever's the champ, when he comes back, you beat them. You're number one. That's it. That's it. All right. We are at about 35 minutes here, a little over. So we are going to move on to the interview portion of the show. We're going to to come back on Thursday, hop on the Twitter spaces and do another live show.

I don't really know how any of this week is going to go. It's going to be absolutely wild. But we will try to get a show on Thursday. We'll try to do a show on Friday and kind of go back to the normal as best as we can here while I am in Dallas, Texas. So thank you all for checking this out. Thank you all for bearing with me on a travel day and throwing out some questions. But right now we will cap off the show with. my conversation with former UFC title challenger, the co-host of the Anakin Florian podcast,

tremendous analyst. He's part of the broadcast team for the professional fighters league. He'll be calling the action this Friday as the PFL playoffs begin. We leave you with my conversation with the great Ken Flo, Kenny Florian. Have a great rest of your day. And as always, have a heck of a morning, everybody. All right, it is great to chat with my fellow Bostonian turned southeast resident. Ketty Flore in the PFL back on Friday.

The playoffs begin in San Antonio, Texas. We got feather weights. We got light heavy weights. Bubba Jenkins versus Jesus Panato headlining, a lot to discuss with Ken Flo. How are you, sir? I'm doing well, Mike. How are you, man? It's great to see you.

You and I have not spoken since I pre-M-A fighting when I was doing the job that Cody Mero is doing way better than I used to do on Anakin Florian. Yeah, well, you're on. You're on to bigger and better things, my friend. Congratulations. Yeah, and same with you guys. You guys are all over the place. It's, it's incredible to see, but it's great to have you here.

Very busy weekend ahead. And PFL gets to set the table with the festivities on Friday because it's playoff time. And, man, between last weekend and now this weekend, it is a pretty darn good time to be a combat sports fan, is it not? Absolutely, man. And it's always exciting anytime the playoffs come around for the PFL. It's always exciting for us. Obviously, an amazing card this past Saturday night for the UFC. And I think there should be some great fireworks this week and the following weeks to come with the rest of the playoffs. absolutely and Bubba Jenkins as I mentioned the main event just he's just been an incredible story for the PFL made it to the finals last year gets finished by Brennan Lochnain and now he's knocking on the door of that million dollar prize again and this man just has perseverance to the nines because a lot of fighters would probably be down in the dumps like getting so close and just coming up short and Baba just never says die ever it seems so what have you made of his run this season getting back to a playoff spot and this matchup with with hseus on friday well i i think you know uh as far as criticism of bumma jenkins it's never been about his potential and his talent he is so dang talented and he

comes from that awesome wrestling pedigree um and i think that um in certain spots he's lacked experience and composure um and every time we see him it seems like he's adding a new wrinkle to his game he's been working in the off season he genuinely is trying to get better as a mixed arts fighter and you can see that you know um i think this year i think what's been most impressive is his finishing ability he would get to certain great positions to finish in previous seasons but he didn't quite have that ability to finish you can see he's been working on his submissions he's been working on his striking um and he just seems more i guess um genuinely confident you know as opposed to just talking he seems more genuinely confident he sees more genuinely composed in the cage now

in the PFL. So I think it's all coming together for him at the right time. And this year, it's been hard for me to find any weakness in his game. So he's been looking very, very sharp. Obviously being a part of this, getting the chance to win the million dollars and get through a season and win it all. It means something to every single fighter. But for Baba in particular, if he can get over that hump,

because that's been the thing. Like he gets so close, he knocks on the door, but he just hasn't been able to get over that hum. Yes. Being around this guy, what do you, like obviously the million dollars can change lives, but what do you think just the victory in getting, in winning it all and getting a title? What do you think that would mean to him in the long run? I think it would be huge for him.

You know, having been there as the guy who has been, you know, second place a few times in my career, you know, where everyone's kind of asking, hey, this is your first time or your second time or your third time at a world championship, you know, what's going to be different? I can imagine that question probably is getting old, but it is valid nonetheless, right? So I think that is always going to be in the back of your mind, you know, am I going to come through and finally win it this time? And there's so much that goes on, of course, in mixed martial arts,

both inside the cage, outside of the cage, and getting all those ingredients right can be very difficult. And then if they're not right, being able to pull off that win is extremely difficult. So I think that, you know, as far as, his maturity as far as his team as far as his experience i think that time is now for sure i i think he's got to be the favorite in that division at this stage of the game um he is fighting a very tough guy and has sus pinato who is coming off a massive one one of the biggest upsets in mixed

martial arts this year in my opinion uh when he defeated brendan lockneyed by knockout in round one so you know i think he's got the right style his wrestling is always going to be a factor no matter who he's going against. He has the ability to put you on your back. He now has the ability to control you there. And as I mentioned before, he's got the ability to finish. So for him hearing all those questions about when are you going to get it done, all that stuff, I think he wants to put that to rest.

And finally win that big one. Not only is it huge for him financially, but any time you can win a major mixed martial arts title, it's huge for you in your career, right? It leads to bigger and better things always. and I think that's what Baba is probably focusing on right now. You want that as a part of your legacy. Whether it's MMA or just life in general,

you don't get a lot of second chances. And Chris Wade gets himself a second chance. He's back in the playoffs, has a chance to get to the finals, taking on Gabriel Braga. Braga is just, this guy's tougher than a $2 steak, man. Undefeated has a win over one half of the main event.

He has a win over Panado. Finish Marlon Marius in June. And what at least right now seems like Marlon's final opponent, of his career. This is a real interesting fight. We got youth versus the experience with the stakes very, very high here. What are you looking forward to when these two guys get into the smart cage and battle it out? Yeah, I think for Chris, he's got such great perspective on the fight game and has certainly

made his share of improvements over the years as I've watched him. And I think he sees this as a big, big opportunity to get back into the final. And finally, win one himself similar to Bubba Jenkins or perhaps get revenge against. Bubba in the final. So I know he's going to be coming in here, extremely motivated in great shape. And, you know, I think he, in a lot of a way similar to Bubba, has been putting together a game that that is very tough to beat. Now, he is facing, as you mentioned, a very tough Brazilian fighter, a young fighter out of Brazil, Gabriel Braga. I actually used to train with his father way back in the day over in Rio de Janeiro. So, you know, these are the kind of guys that we're seeing now.

It's like my dad was a professional fighter. He's brought me up since I was a kid to learn how to fight. And the level is just insane. When he came into the Challenger series in Orlando, the beginning of this year, he was telling everybody, I'm going to win my fight, I'm going to get in the PFL season, and I'm going to win the million dollars. He's like, that's what I'm doing. And he came in undefeated.

And I said, well, certainly has a lot of potential. He's got some great skills. Can he do it in the PFL? He just keeps getting better and better. So I don't think this is one guy that you want to. doubt at this stage of the game. He's facing a guy with a ton of experience of Chris Wade, a tough wrestler, of course. I'm curious to see how he handles the wrestling of Chris Wade. If he can handle the wrestling of Chris Wade, then I think that his striking will start to

shine out there, but it's a very tough matchup for both sides. And can't wait to see it. Yeah, light heavyweight matchup. Sometimes you just, you just need a fresh coat of paint. And I think Impecant Sang and I has found that fresh coat of paint. I mean, he's on the wrong end of one of the craziest highlight real finishes you'll ever see in the sport. He's looked real good in a new eight class of 205 and a new promotion with the PFL taking on Martin Hamlet, who's just just a go-getter and Josh Silvera taking on Ty Flores. What stands out about these two particular matchups at 205 pounds heading into Friday? Yeah, I thought you put it really well. I think for Impa, you know, he's one of those guys. He's very stoic. He doesn't get too high with the highs,

doesn't get too low with the lows. I think that's the right attitude and mindset that you need to mixed martial art because it is such a roller coaster ride. And I think while he's a little bit undersized and certainly undersized in this matchup against Martin Hamlet at 205 pounds, I do think he has the right mix of experience and speed. And that's what he's going to have to exploit. He'll have that speed advantage. He'll have a lower center of gravity going against Martin Hamlet, who's going to be

much taller, much bigger. So it's going to be tougher for Martin Hamlet in some ways to take him down because he's got to get underneath that low center of gravity. of Ipah Kisagina. So I'm impa is a tremendous athlete. He's got to use that speed and he's got to stop the takedowns. And for Martin Hamlet, he's got to find a way to use that size, use that experience. And he's got to be effective at long range against someone like Impa.

So I think Martin Hamlet does his best work up against the cage where he can hit his takedowns. And he's another guy that really needs to be in the right frame of mind. Sometimes I feel like he gets in his head a little bit. and suffers from that. But I think now in his third season, I believe, he should have that right mix and we should see him at his best. But this is another tough one to pick.

Yeah, there's a lot of these across the board, even some of the prelim fights like Desirea Yanez, Lisa Malden's is going to be absolutely ridiculous. I can't wait for that fight. And then after Friday, you guys take a couple weeks off. You head to New York for the final two playoff events because PFL is making some moves and perhaps another big move could be made

after Saturday's UFC card because freaking Derek Lewis, man, flying knee, 33 second finish in Marcos Ruggiero de Lima. He took the shorts off. He's throwing the cup. He's doing the dancing. He's doing the crotch shops. And then, in my opinion, this is the greatest

free agency announcement in the history of the sport. And something that the PFL certainly would be interested in. One would assume they've already put out a tweet about it with Francis Ngado getting set to make his promotional debut early next year. Kenny Floreen, Derek Lewis to the PFL for Lewis and Ghanu, too.

I assume you foresee at least a conversation coming between Derek Lewis and the brass. And I would love to be in that room just to hear with these two guys and all the brass have to say to them. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's a lot to unpack there with what you said. But, you know, Derek Lewis is one of the most likable guys in the UFC. It was great to see him get a knockout win in his final fight on his contract in the UFC, which actually was not aware of.

Me neither. But yeah, I think a lot of it took a lot of people by surprise. that's the way you do it. And sometimes when you're on a losing streak, it tends to get people to not let their hands go, right, and be a little bit more conservative. I just want to get the win, you know, get out here no matter what it takes.

I just want to get a win here. But no, he actually went for that flying knee, which landed beautifully. And to have someone like Derek Lewis and the PFL would be huge. You mentioned it being a great time to be a mixed martial arts fan. It's also a great time to be a mixed martial arts professional fighter as well because you have more options. And I think anytime you can increase your value like that, I think it's huge.

Derek Lewis, great personality, exciting fighter to watch. He comes to fight all the time. And that could be an interesting signing for the PFL for sure. Obviously, you know, has that history with Francis Sigano. And Gano is looking for another, you know, opponent for early next year. And perhaps Derek Lewis is that guy. So I'm curious to see how it goes. But yeah, you've got to be happy for someone like Derek Lewis, one of the great personalities

of the sport. I know the first fight kind of left a bad taste in people's mouths. Everyone came in. There's no way this could be a bad fight. End up being the fight that it was. And we don't need to really go back and relive that one. But there's just no way that happens again, right? If somehow the PFL could pull this off, we're getting Gano Lewis.

There's just no chance that this happens that way again, right? I would think so. I mean, just based on the way that these guys fight and also them knowing full well, what happened in that first flight, I think, yeah, one of those guys would have to be knocked out. I mean, now I did say that the first time around. But yeah,

I mean, that I think was kind of a unicorn flight, very, very unusual. Yeah, Francis was just in a weird place after losing the steep A. And,

you know, he's talked about being a little gun shy and stuff. And Derek's just going to be like, well, if this is the fight you're going to give me, then I'll just get that W. But you mentioned a few minutes ago about a great time being for,

not just for fans, but for fighters right now because of the opposite. And I'm sure you've heard the rubblings. Ray Sefo has talked about it. Scott Coker has talked about it. There's rumor and innuendo about a possible merger between the PFL and Bellator. So I haven't talked to you forever.

If this happens, how do you think this would work? Like if you had to say, they said, Ketty, you're going to be the commissioner of the merger. What would this look like to you? Yeah, interesting question, man. I don't have any inside information on how it would look. But for me, you're asking me, Yeah, I think you'd have to have it under one banner.

Eventually anyway, I think, you know, with the UFC at certain point, they were running WEC simultaneously, strike force simultaneously, I believe. And then eventually it was absorbed into one organization, the UFC. I think that's what you'd have to do with the PFL. And I'm sure it's also dependent on how the network deals go as well from a business perspective. but I would want everything to fall under one umbrella. And perhaps it would also change the dynamic of the regular season and playoffs. You know, because you do have these, you know, a full roster of fighters that could potentially double, triple or even quadruple the size of the PFL right now.

So I'd be curious to see how it goes down. But I think that things would get very interesting from a competitive perspective when you take into account UFC and all that stuff. And if you're going to go big, go big. And I think that's one way the PFL can do it is getting all the great fighters over for the Belator and bringing over all the most exciting fighters from Belator and just making it kind of like a new Super League and putting on the fights that people want to see. the PFL is trying to put together, you know, this kind of new Super League, right, with the PFL pay-per-view. And if you're going to do that, you're going to need a lot of big names. And Bellator has established some great stars, a lot of big names.

And I think it would just make things that much more interesting if they were to merge. So I'm excited to see how it all goes down if it goes down. So, yeah, time will tell. Yeah, man. Like, it'd just be really cool if it happened. And somehow we kind of like kept it. I mean, I understand what you're saying, like putting it all together and making one big super league, but you kind of want to keep like the Bellator banner alive somehow because for a long time,

I've been, I've been touting like a World Cup of MMA, like some sort of just massive thing. And if we could somehow get, you know, Bellator and PFL and Risen and we just do like these mega events and these crossover events, like, it's just really cool. Like one thing I say about the UFC all the time is like they are just killing it. They're winning the game and they have great fighters and they put on a great product that people watch. but it just seems like they just are who they are. And it's very rare that they go out of the box and do something fun. This has the potential of creating a lot of fun and different ideas in the sport.

And I just think that would be really interesting from that perspective to see like PFL versus Bellitzer. Like we can actually do this now. PFL versus Risen, et cetera. Like it's a really interesting opportunity should this happen. No question. And I think one thing about Pete Murray is that he's very open. open-minded. And I think that, and Don Davis as well, you know, they're willing to to think outside the box and do unusual things, as you mentioned. And, you know, I think to make the case even stronger,

if you have a long-term plan and anything you do, especially with something like the fight game, you know, you need a lot of competition, which means you need more fighters. And, you know, putting on as many fights that are exciting and interesting, that's the goal of every promoter and every promotion. And I think with a potential merger with guys over Belator, I think that's how you do it. So again, very curious to see if it goes down and how it all goes down. Another man that has been attached to the PFL for a little while, Jake Paul, getting ready to box Nathan Diaz in Dallas, Texas. What are your thoughts on this, man? Like a lot of people are saying, well, Jake's going to be the bigger fighter.

He's younger. He's more athletic. And Nate's just a dog. How do you see this one going down? We were just discussing this over at the Antiquet Florian podcast. I think it's fascinating for a couple different reasons. First of all, I think that one of the strongest parts of Nate Diaz's game has been his boxing, right? And I think he's also wanted to box for so long. First of all, Jake also is, it deserves a lot of credit for doing what he's been doing.

He could be a millionaire doing his YouTube thing. No, he decided to earn it in a very difficult manner, which is the professional fight game. And he's done very well for himself. He surprised me anyway. Big strong kid. He's tough. He's training right. He's got a good team around him.

And has been calling out the right fighters for the most part so far. He's calling out a big name Nate Diaz. He's going to bring in a lot of viewers. And I also think it's interesting that it's a 10-round fight, not a six-round fight. I think that's an advantage to Nate Diaz, certainly. So I also think a mixed martial arts camp at this stage of the game can definitely have a lot of wear and tear on your body. Nate Diaz has been around the game for a long time. I think this is probably a welcome change of just having to really deal with boxing for a camp.

So I think Nate Diaz has some advantages heading into this fight, and I would certainly have him as a favorite against Jake Paul. But Jake Paul early on first three rounds, he's going to be extremely dangerous. He's got knockout power. Nate's got to watch out for those big shots. But late in the game, I think that's where Nate Diaz can get that legendary motor going. He's also, of course, known for that durability and that chin. And his high volume boxing. And he just gets stronger and stronger as the fight goes on, it seems.

So I would have Nate Diaz as a favorite, but Jake Paul is going to be tough to take out as well. You mentioned Don Davis. And some may call him naive with some of the things he says. But he's aggressive. The man is aggressive and he's confident in his product. And you can't take that away from him. And he has put it out there that he has offered Jake Paul and Nate Diaz, a big sum of money to, you know, after the boxing match,

come on over to the PFL and do it in the MMA cage. And obviously, Nate would be a gigantic favorite in that. But Jake doesn't seem to care. He's willing to put himself out there and take these types of chances. Could we see this happen in the PFL? Like, do you have any confidence that a guy like Nate? because it seems like he might want to go back to the FC, but money talks,

and this would be a really interesting series of fights. People talk the crossover all the time. Well, I'll do boxing. If you come over, do MMA and the box, we're like, yeah, I'll do it. And then it never happens. Could this be the one that changes the narrative? I think so.

And I think that's what makes it so intriguing, right? It's like you have a one shot at boxing. That's what I do. That's what I've been focusing on. Now coming over to my sport and mixed martial arts. And as you very intelligently mentioned, yet we haven't had that. now we can actually have that I do think it's feasible.

I do think it's possible that we could see it maybe as early as 2024. And again, if you're going to do a pay-per-view, you want stars, you want big names. And Nate Diaz definitely fits the bill, as does Jake Paul. Yes. Well, excited to hear you back on the on the call this Friday, August 4th, the kickoff of the PFL playoffs, San Antonio, Texas, ESPN Plus, ESPN, you can watch all the action. And let me just say this, Kenny, the combination between you, Randy Gator and Sean, what a trio, man. Like, it just seems to you guys jelled right away.

There's just, it doesn't even seem like work when I listen to you guys chat. Like, do you feel that way sometimes? We have an absolute blast. And for whatever reason, Randy and Sean tend to like me. So even though I harassed them all the time, we have a blast, man. Sean is absolutely hilarious. People don't get a chance to see how funny he is. And Randy, man, he's the most chill.

and the coolest operator in town, man. Just a cool guy who I love to work with, love to pick his brain, love to talk with him. And we have a blast, man. We're like kids in a candy store and we call fight. So thank you for mentioning that. Absolutely. And you get to pick the brain to Sean and John Annick.

I mean, you're just in a tremendous spot, Kenny. Looking forward to hearing you on the broadcast this Friday. Thank you for the time. Let's not make it so long before we do this again, Kenny. Absolutely, man. Anytime, brother. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.