MMA Fighting - HOAM | Who Will Islam Makhachev, Ilia Topuria Face In Next Title Defenses?

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

With huge fights on the horizon — most notably the UFC 300 "BMF" title fight between Justin Gaethje and Max Holloway — it leads to a lot of questions in regard to who lightweight champion Islam Makhachev and new featherweight champion Ilia Topuria will face when they put their titles on the line in their next outings. On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck discusses what could be next for both champions, and if the Dustin Poirier vs. Benoit Saint Denis fight could play a role in determining Makhachev's next opponent. Additionally, listener topics include UFC Vegas 87, the UFC APEX as a Fight Night arena for the promotion, who Alexandre Pantoja could defend his flyweight title against at UFC 301 if Muhammad Mokaev loses to Alex Perez on Saturday, and more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. First, 2024, I stumbled on the first because I didn't know who's the first of the second.

I actually don't even really know the day it is right now, but it is indeed a heck of a morning. We are live on the MAA budding Twitter space. You can hear the show. this entirety short thereafter on the NBA Fighting Podcasting Network. What's going on, everybody?

I am Mike Heck. Hope you're all having a fantastic week. Getting ready to roll into the weekend. A lot going on this weekend in the world of combat sports. Today, I'm doing the program outdoors. I am out on my mother-in-law's balcony. As you guys heard on Tuesday, didn't do a show yesterday. We're moving.

Process is a pain in the ass for anybody involved. Yesterday was just insane. It took forever for everything to go through. And it was just a lot of waiting for things to happen. And then a whole bunch of problems with the internet being installed in the new house and stuff. It's just been a pain in the ass. So we are here doing the show out on the balcony. Preview show will be done on my mother-in-laws as well.

Tomorrow, I think I'm actually going to get like a hotel room for this. night to be able to do the people's pre-fight show, the post-fight show, and all the work because of everything going on, everything basically just got delayed like three or four days, which is just a gigantic pain. But we are going to forge through, and we're going to get through this. Before we get to you guys, before we get to all of the MMA news and notes, like I said, I'm outside. So if you hear like cars starting or birds singing or wind blowing or rain falling, that is why. And there's nothing I can really do about that. But I want to thank everybody for all the positive feedback from the big feature that dropped yesterday. It was a month of just crazy work, putting that

all together, 3,500 words, and not a very happy story to tell, not a very fun story to tell. Ashti Gambino has gone through so much, her family has gone through so much. over the last 18 or so months to try to put all that into words was not easy to do. But we did it. Dropped yesterday. Podcasts dropped yesterday morning. The feedback has been tremendous across the board. And I really do appreciate that.

Shout out to everyone who reached out. Shout out to anybody who read or listened to it. Honestly, like I don't like to put myself over too much. I think the podcast is one of the, it might be the best thing I've ever. done in this space putting that all together. There is no producer. I did, I put all that together myself. All the music, the audio, the transitions, the interview, all that stuff.

That was all me from an audio production side. So that shit ain't easy to do. And we got it done. I was very proud of that. I think it's the only thing I've done in the last year that I've actually gone back and re-listened to. So, yeah, I was very proud. of that. And I was also proud to find out, well, Ashley loved it. She was very thankful for that

piece coming out the way that it came out because she had no idea. It's not like I sent her a copy ahead of time. It just came out and she was like, holy shit, this is unbelievable. But on top of that, I looked on her GoFundMe page and I haven't looked today, but I looked last night. She had like 17 or 18 extra donations that came in yesterday. And this is probably by like 5 p.m. Eastern yesterday. So for something that dropped at like 10, for people to be like, whoa, look at the story. And they donated whether it's $1, $5. I saw someone donate $125 to her. It's incredible. It really is incredible. And we posted the video of Liver King putting it over the top. A lot of people asked, they thought it was fake. That was the only thing that annoyed me yesterday.

I can tell you, that was not planned. I had no idea that was coming. The only reason this story was told to begin with was because Liver King wanted it told. And it was nothing to do with that. She just wanted her story told. And he didn't even necessarily volunteer to be a part of it. I asked for him to be a part of it because when it, when it was reached out to me to begin with, it was because he reached out to Mike Goldberg, who does PR for MVP, Jake Paul's boxing company. That's where I met Mike, and he put this on my radar because Liver King asked him to find somebody to tell the story. So he basically just wanted the story told. He didn't really want to be a part of it.

I asked for him to be a part of it because I thought it was so freaking random that Liver King is a part of this. I want to know how he became part of it, how it got on his radar. And then at the end of the interview he did, he paid off the rest of her go fund me, which is incredible. And I understand he's a polarizing guy. I understand he gets hate. I'm sure he understands it as well. But for anybody who thinks that that was staged or that was set up or anything of that nature, that is absolutely not true.

For anyone who thinks that Liver King set this all up so that he could have a good PR moment, again, not the case. Because I asked for him to be a part of it. Not him. He just wanted the story told. He wanted the M.A. community to hear more about what she is going through. And he wanted this story out more than anybody else in the world. world like literally anybody else in the world so i think he did a great thing here i understand why

people don't like them i get it but this was not a stage thing go look at my reaction on the twitter video released yesterday and i'm may fighting like that was a real reaction i had no clue i was coming in fact mike goldberg the PR guy who set this up was also on the call he had the same reaction he didn't know that was coming either we didn't release him because people would have been I'm like, oh, who the hell is this guy? But that was all legit. That was all real. And there you go.

And I'm going to say something here that I don't say all that often because there are a lot of people out there who say that I'm a UFC hater, that I'm a Dana White hater, which I think all of you in here know that that is not the case. I just cover the sport right down the middle. If you do good things, you get good things said about you. If you do bad things, you get bad things said about you. I'm going to put the UFC and Dana White over big time. here because I saw a lot of people on Instagram being like, Dana, you should do something here. Dana did do something. They're going to UFC 299 in Miami.

He's putting that all together for her and her husband. Liver King kind of put it on his radar and he basically said, bet whatever one she wants to go to, Liver King said she wants to go to 299 and they said, yeah, the UFC did it for her. So this is a great thing. Shout out to Dana. Shout out to the UFC. And shout out to all of you. Okay, let's get into this. It's Friday. We got a lot going on tomorrow.

The UFC back of the world's most famous apex, 11 spectacular fights with the main event that nobody asked for, but I think we'll actually still be fun. Jarzini Rosenstrike versus Shemiel Gadziath. The main card is really good. Like, I know the main event isn't spectacular because we got heavyweights, but this fight probably ends pretty quickly. Vitor Bertrino versus Tyson Pedro is going to be a bang. her. Muhammad Bukhyif might be getting a title shot if he beats Alex Perez. We got Umar Narmaga Madov back against Bexad Almecon, who is a friggin animal. And Matt Chanel versus Steve Erseg is a big club.

Like, this is a pretty good main card. I know people are kind of dumping on the main event, but this isn't that bad. It really isn't. So we got that. Jake Paul is boxing tomorrow. Amanda Serrano is boxing tomorrow. And we also have games. Bainbread Bear Knuckle MMA going down tomorrow as well.

So it's going to be a very busy day in the combat sports world. It's going to be a very busy day on this program. So with that said, let's do it. C.V. First in line. Let's go. What's up, C.V. What's up, Mike? Can you hear me? I can't. Hey, man. Happy Friday.

You're the real MVP for doing a heck of a morning while you're in the process of moving. So shout-outs to you. I want to ask about the pay-per-view next week. I can't wait, man. Obviously, the main event's going to be fired, but I'm really intrigued by the co-main event, Dustin Poria versus Benoit Saint-Den. I just want to talk about the stakes of the fight,

because if Porier wins, could he realistically get, like, the next title shot? Just because UFC 300 is just over a month, can you believe it? We have Olivera versus Sarukian and Gachi v. way and I really think all those four fighters involved are going to get damage in some sort of way like I don't think they can make a turnaround to fight in the summer but who knows and

if Benoit Saint Denis like has an impressive like performance again against Porreya or even a finish like does he jump the line to get the title shot against Islam just your thoughts on that thanks thank you very much I'm going to try to Let me see if I can do something here. I'm trying to see if I can break some news here. Nothing like major. I think it's kind of fun since we're talking about UFC 299. But yeah, dude, $2.99's great.

A lot of people ask if it's better than $300. Guys, it's not. It's really, really good. It's not better than $300. $300 is ridiculous. And I understand Sean O'Malley is a little bit more juicy. Sean O'Malley, Marlon Vera may have a little bit more juice than Alex

Barrera versus Jamal Hill, but come on. UFC 300 is a better lineup, start to finish in 299, but 299 is damn good. And this is not an indictment on 299 because this is an incredible card. Dustin Porey versus Benoit Santini is a big reason why I love this card so much. That fight rules.

I love it so much. The stakes here are really interesting. I think the stakes are higher for Dustin Porre. In my humble opinion, because he is over and people know who he is. He's a star. Benoit Santini, even if he goes out there and dust up, Dustin Porier, I think a lot of people, especially like on this show and other shows, have, like, put him over as, like,

the next big thing. But he's also not, like, a very known commodity. And if he beats Dustin Porre, a lot of people feel like that's, like, they expect that to happen anyways. So will he become a giant star off of this win? I don't think so. I think he'll get on more radars and then what he gets next, we'll kind of put him over the hump.

If Dustin wins, he is 1,000% in the mix. Does it get him a title shot? I don't know. But is he in the conversation if he beats Benoit Santone? You bet your ass he is. And the reason is what I just said. He is a star. People know who he is.

And if they booked his on Machachep versus Dustin Porre for the lightweight title, people are going to buy that shit. They're going to buy it. Also, like, if everything was even, let's just say they were doing this in like, the UFC announced tomorrow. Islam Makachev is fighting in November at Madison Square Garden. He won't fight any sooner. He's fighting on this card. The next two months will decide who he's fighting.

Then I would not be as confident in this. But I think Islam's going to come back sooner than that. We might see him international fight week. We might see him in Saudi Arabia. We might see him in July. So the correct answer is we look at what's available. And as I say on the show all the time, especially at the top of these divisions, especially with this UFC schedule, as it is right now, meritocracy be damned, your best friend is availability. And if Dustin Porier beats Van Wassantini and Machachev wants to fight in June, and he is available, and he is the only one available, guests is getting the title fight, it's going to be Dustin Porre.

So he definitely puts himself in the conversation. I don't know if Santinie gets that same bump. I don't. But we'll see. I mean, we got Matush Gamrott fighting next week, too, against Hafield Osangios. I know it's not, you know, the same sexy matchup. But Matush Gamrott was just the backup fighter for Makach's most recent title defense. So there's a lot that can happen here.

But my answer is, if you win, you're in the discussion, if you're available, if you're the most available, you're getting the fight. So it is imperative that Dustipori wins this fight. I don't know if Santany is in the same position. But it could be. But that's where I'm at right now. I have no idea how this is all going to work. And someone's going to get kind of screwed here.

At least that's going to be the reaction to all of this, is even if someone has the best performance of all, that may not matter in the end. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games

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Got you, got you, got you. Yeah, you got me? Okay, cool. Thanks for taking it. So for free for all Friday, I just wanted to ask, I thought about this a couple of weeks ago. But so do you think everybody would be fine with the apex cards if the UFC ended up making like a kind of a mega apex or like a mini little stadium? Just like that one card with, who was it, Jan and Sanhagen? I think the one with, you know, had like only 2,000 seats or something like that.

Do you think if they built their own little, like, you know, bigger apex, like a little mini stadium and actually let the public in for, you know, not super ridiculous prices and just made it kind of like those Las Vegas fight nights at the apex, you know, do you think people would be fine with the apex then? And then the apex can strictly only be for the contender series and tough and Road 2FC and all that crap. so that's my first one and then um i'm trying to remember what the other question i was going to ask um oh uh do can we can we think of another card i couldn't really think of a card so maybe if if you can where the the main event is is like literally the worst fight on the main card because i was looking over the card yesterday too and uh the main card is actually really good And if Rojas Jr. and Terseos would have been rescheduled on it, you know, it would have actually been a really, really good card. You know, they would have really helped it out a lot.

So, yeah, just those two things. And then if you have any update on the Rojas fight, it doesn't look like it's going on this card. So if you know anything, if they're going to send them to Miami. Thank you, Mike. Have a heck of good morning. Be safe. Moving. Thanks, buddy.

The Rosen thing, I have no idea. I assume they're just going to try to bump up something. I don't know if they're going to just go back to the apex at some point because they have $2.99. But then there's, I think, back-to-back apex shows right after that. So they could just kind of slot it in there. Ricky Terseos might just be like, nah, dude. Like, I gave, like, I understand where Ricky's coming from. Like, I really do.

Like, you can't really truly blame. I mean, Roses got sick. So I'm not going to, like, blame him. Jersey us was like prepared to fight this dude. And then like five minutes before he is about to fight him, he's told the fight's not happening. So yes, he's 1,000% frustrated there. And I totally understand that. But it's, you can't really blame Roses for that.

Then the UFC just announces that this fight is happening on this card on Saturday. When it wasn't. Again, this is the thing. this is another example of fights getting announced before they're done no contract was signed Ricky terseos hadn't even agreed to it but it was announced on the on the on the I don't know if it was on the broadcast I think French I think Brennan Fitzgerald might have said the plan is we're hoping that it gets pushed back and I think Dana went to the press conference and said yes that fights happening next Saturday when in reality it wasn't it wasn't

I had found out, I want to say it was Monday, because I think I mentioned this on the show Tuesday. Or maybe it was on BTL. Either way, I was told that, okay, it looks like the fight's going to happen. Agreements are in place. We're going to do it at 1.45. Won't be a catchway.

It's going to be a February fight. And I was like, okay. And then we tried to reach out and figure out what was going on the other side, got no response. And then we were told that the, like, I think it was later on Tuesday.

I get a text from somebody who obviously knows the answer to this question. And I was told, the fight's not happening. Not happening, not going down. Ricky Terseus, I think went on Twitter and kind of gave his rationale. He said he was ready to go at 145. Fight didn't happen. He's not wrong about that from everything that I've been told. So are they going to rebook it?

I'm not sure. Will Ricky Terseos be interested in rebooking it? Again, not sure. So I'm not really sure what's going on there. I mean, Jesus. The other question, the can you remember a car where the main event was the worst fight of the car dude just go back through the apex there's a whole freaking bunch of them there's a whole bunch of them i like if we're

going to talk pay-per-view and look i'm not i'm not trying to be a i'm not trying to be a prick here but let's just let's just be completely honest here ufc 289 in june the main event was amanda nunez versus erini aldana that was the main event And look, there was some story there. Like, is it going to be Nunes' last fight? Is Rani Aldana like the one? Like, could she do it? And there were people talking about that.

But everybody was excited for Charles Olivera versus B'Neildarayor. Like, that was, and everybody's mind, that was the main event. And the rest of the card was like, you know, not super duper stacked, but it was still pretty solid. Like, you look at that card and look at the people who are on it. You were like, all right, I don't know if I want to spend $80 on it, But if I do, like, I think it's going to be pretty fun.

And it turned out that that was the case. But that one comes to mind for, like, bigger events. But there's a lot of apex guards where we're like, man, it's not bad. But the main event's kind of, eh, it is what it is. And the first question, like, will we care? The apex thing, like, look, if they could somehow put 500 people in the apex, or even, like, 300 people in the apex, like, that would be fun. I'd be okay I'd be much more okay with it

If you want to go to an apex event Go look at the ticket prices Go look at them See what it is Now you get a whole bunch of stuff I think you get like red carpet arrivals You get people like serving your shit There's other things

I think you probably get some Like some other perks But it is expensive To go to an apex card Like really expensive So maybe put some seats in. Because even with the contender series cards,

yeah, we're not, it's not Madison Square Garden. It's not Paris. But at least there's a little more buzz in there. You feel a little bit better about things. Like, there's people clapping and yelling and screaming, they're cheering on their fellow fighter. You don't just hear the coaches yelling in the corner or people yelling at Paul Felder for shit.

Like, people are into the fights. It's just a whole different vibe. you just need the energy you just need some crowd noise like it just gets super quiet in there it just it just drains you and it ain't going anywhere like I understand that

but like you know pop a couple hundred seats in there like don't make the tickets like a $500,000 or whatever it is and they're more expensive for the bigger fights like the Holloway like Holloway's main event in there and like Rose Namibunisa

Amanda He boss is a little more expensive than this one per se. So, I mean, just the crowd would make it better. And then the car just need to be better. This one, like, again, this one is pretty decent. And it's the right amount of fights. Like, it's 11 fights. We're right in the sweet spot.

If we can keep them at 10, I think we're on to something. 10 fights, nice and tight. I think you're okay. when we're popping 15 freaking fights out there at 7 p.m. Eastern prelims, 10 p.m. main card, like those are just the groaners. You're like, ugh, this is just too much. But this card, like, I got to tell you, 1.30 p.m. Eastern prelims, 4 p.m. Eastern main card,

like this is tremendous. These Apex cards should never start any later than 4 p.m. Eastern. 1 p.m. is exceptional or 130 in this case exceptional and 11 fights like this is excellent stuff do more of this nice tight 10 11 fights don't do them super late at night and like let's put interesting matchups on there a lot of times you don't get this this card is not that is pretty decent it's just people shitting on the main event but like I said we ain't going anywhere people we're going to be the apex for a hot minute, at least until this new TV deal comes in, and even then, I still think they're going to stay there for a hot for a little while. And why wouldn't they? They're making a shitload of money being at the apex. Viking, go ahead. Hello. Hello. Hello, Michael. How are you? I'm fine. I just don't know about what you have done for that girl. I couldn't see the video because I'm so much busy right now.

Really sorry about that. And I just, I just followed Jade. I just followed Jade this time for, this time I seriously followed him. I'm not going to unfollow him. And I just saw some pictures of his, he is with his family and God, they all look like same. I mean, they all look like same. And who is the guy with the white beard?

Is that Jets' dad or his uncle? And he's in every picture Jad has uploaded with his family. So I just don't know. And the BTL has happened Tuesday. So I, Are you going to host BTL again tonight or not? That's all. Thanks a lot. Thanks, bud. No, we did BTL Tuesday this week for the same reason why we didn't have a show yesterday.

Yesterday we were moving or at least trying to move. We didn't get a lot done because we didn't get the keys to the freaking house to like almost 5 o'clock, which is never fun. So, yeah, that's why BTL is on Tuesday. We swapped it up. Next week we'll be Thursday. We'll do it again. Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and say it. There may be like a more formal announcement

coming up on the MMA hour or something like that, but I'm just going to go ahead and say it. I'm just going to go ahead and say it. If you guys are fans of the watch party, then we got something for you. Because this is how my Thursday is going to go next week. I'm going to do this show, and I'm going to do BTL, and I'm going to pick my kid up from school, probably, and I'm going to bring him to either his mother-in-laws or to my wife at work, and then I'm hopping on a plane. Thursday night, because we're going to do two watch parties next week. We're going to do back-to-back Friday for Francis and Ganu versus Anthony Joshua, and then Saturday, we come back. We're going to do back Friday. We're going to do back Friday for Francis and Ganu versus Anthony Joshua, and then Saturday, we come back. back and we do it again for UFC 299.

So a little double header for you next week. So two watch parties for the price of one. There you go. I've been holding on that one for a minute, but it's happening. And there may be something more formal announced on the MA hour, but it's happening. It's official. So I'll go ahead and release it to all you wonderful people here because you're here live. So that's happening.

So get excited. GC and I are going to talk a lot next week. And it's going to be a good time. Probably play some darts. Friday one's going to be a little interesting. I don't know how it's going to play out. We'll probably go live. I think the plan is to go live at 4 p.m. Eastern

for the co-main event, the Zhang fight, and then obviously we'll go straight through the Joshua and Ganoe fight as well. We'll play some darts. We'll do some games. We'll do some fun stuff. And then $2.99 will just be the normal absolute chaos from start to finish because we know how it's going to go.

A fight's going to end. Maybe a Hall of Fame announcement. Next fight, next fight, next fight, next fight. Maybe we rip some packs, but Friday, we're going as well. And it's going to be awesome. So I hope to see you all there at 4 p.m. Easter next Friday. At least that's the plan as of right the second. Let's go to Four Corner Sports.

Good, four-car sports. Hey, so on the post-fight show, I don't think you were on it. But I remember, I think it was Shahini. Shadhi ended up saying that the USC 300 watch party is going to be from the curtain Jerker all the way to the main event. I don't know if you can confirm or deny that. But I did want to talk about I saw something

on on Twitter that Herve Dean ended up giving a red card resulting in its qualification for due to inactivity. Do you ever see that the UFC and that was for a one card? I think it was 166. Do you ever see what's it called the

UFC ever, you know, resulting into that pattern, you know, sometimes down the line. Just because it was pretty odd to see her being very aggressive in the main event between Marino and Voigo and round five, especially, you know, yelling at Marino telling him to hurry up, you know, work. If not, I'm going to separate you guys. Usually I feel like he gives him a little bit more leeway, but like in that round five, in particular. I felt like

he was you know, pushing it to the extreme. I don't know how you feel about that. And, yeah, I have a feeling

that Ronald Ross Jr. isn't an end of fighting on that empty slot that, Dana Keyes, I'm talking about that he has one more

fight to make for USC 300. I mean, I feel like Ricky Terseos with the way that he handled everything.

I feel like they're going to pop the USC and Royal Roses Jr. might go in a different direction. And I feel like the UFC is obviously in a manner of trying to push Rowe Roses Jr.'s in big events.

And I feel like what bigger event than UFC 300 and have them, you know, in the prelims. And then lastly, like, the last thing I wanted to talk about was the Mahamahev fight versus Alice Perez. If Mahometh Mohioref lose, right, because Alice Faris is a get-or-get type of guy and Mohamahev isn't the type of person to initiate, initiate so much type of damage, right?

And if he somehow was to lose, like, what do you feel like the UFC would try to, you know, go with the whole Pansoja, you know, title fight that he's supposed to be fighting in 301? That's all I got. Thanks, Mike. A lot to impact there. First question, are we doing UFC 300 Watch Party, bell to bell? Yes, that is the plan.

Are we doing it in New York? TBD, and I'll leave it at that for now. We're trying to plan something pretty freaking cool for you have to 300, whether it happens or not, up in the air, but it could happen in New York, could happen elsewhere. We don't know yet, but we are going to do the entire card from fight one to fight 12 or however it works out for 300. It won't be a regular thing, but it will be a 300 thing,

and probably be a 400 thing and a 500 thing if we're still doing them back then. So that'll be fun. that is true, that is going to happen. The Herb Dean stuff like, I don't know. Like I feel like, I feel like the nickname I've given Herb is like the perfect one. It's hokey pokey herb where it's either short term or he's trying to like decide whether or not he wants to do a stoppage, put the left foot in, now I'll take the left foot out. Now the left foot's back in and then I'm shaking all about and then I stop the fight.

But it's also like the wave of how he refs. where it's like, okay, Herb's best referee in the game right now, and he's showing it. And then, like, two weeks later, it's like, what is he doing? And it's just a roller coaster ride with Herb. I know there's some weird shit happen on this one card. I guess there's been a bunch of DQs. Jared Brooks thought he got a TKO win, but ends up getting disqualified and losing his title after just putting an absolute whooping on his opponent.

It's just been a super weird card. I think our own Guillermo Cruz is actually covering that one for us right now. so I haven't really seen anything of it. I just am going by what I see in the Slack channels. And then, God, the McHiaf. McHiaf loses? Jesus, they're in trouble. They're in trouble if you loses, man.

Do you just give Alex Perez the title shot? Like, you might just have to if he can turn around. I honestly don't know. I guess you just pull a nickel. Again, much like we talked about with the lightweight situation, availability is going to be somebody's best friend right now. And it's just going to be a matter of like, okay, who's available to fight? And then we go from there.

I just, I don't know, man. It's a tough spot to be in. You could go, you could go Nicolao because he did make weight for the Minnell Cop fight. He did lose prior and has some losses and some stoppage losses. But he made weight. Mnell Cop did not make weight. I'd love to see Minel Koppai for the belt. All you do is make wait.

All he had to do is make wait. Amir al-Bazi, you could sneak in there, but like, let's be honest, nobody cares. And not a lot of people thought he beat Kikara-France to begin with. Him getting hurt for the Moreno fight screwed up everything. Like, that screwed up everything. But now we're here. But I guess Perez gets it. Maybe Matt Schnell gets it if he wins against Steve Ursaig.

It's a weird situation. That event is a youser. I don't know what they're going to do. I don't know what they're going to do. They'll find somebody, but it probably won't be like the most ideal situation. I don't think any of these choices are ideal. Like, Mikhail is like cool. Like if he goes out there and beats Alex Perez, which I expect him to do,

getting him in there and fighting for a belt this early is fun. But it's too soon for me. It's an interesting fight, but like imagine this fight, like, two years then it's like okay let's go so this i mean it's going to be this is a big event for the flyweight division

someone could emerge as the next guy whether from that fight or the other fight between the ranked flyweight so a lot going on here it's going to be fun who is pentosia going to fights the new what's going to main event ufc 300 question yeah yeah go ahead big mark what's going on man

yeah brother Congrats on the crib, man. Thanks, buddy. All right, so I don't know if you saw the interview with Khabib, I think it was released today. They were just asking him about the fight with Justin Gachey and Max Holloway, and he was saying he didn't understand that fight, and that the Justin Gaichi and Islam fight would make more sense. I just want to get your opinion on that.

And then one other one, I don't know if you heard about the UFC signing, the 6'7 Olympian, I think his name is Robles Dispani. like I think his four second K.O. went viral and I think he's Cuban, but I just wanted to get your opinion on this guy because he's due to six, seven, it's huge. So just wanted to get your opinion on that.

Appreciate you, man. Thanks, buddy. I saw the Habib thing came out. Not really... Let me pull it up real quick. I mean, he's not wrong that, like, G. G.C. Holloway doesn't make any sense. Because it doesn't.

It's just dumb. Like, it's... It's a fun-ass fight. It's just fun. Let me see what he ends up saying here. Let me get the context. Try to get some context here. Let's see.

All respect for Max, but I don't know and I don't understand whether UFC makes this fight. Jesse Gaetcher versus Max Holloway makes no sense. My opinion, Holloway is supposed to fight Tepori next. Maybe September. Gach is supposed to fight with his on May or June. Srucun versus Oliver. They fight in April. where wins that.

She'll be fighting the winner of Islam versus Gachi. Now Tupori will fight with who? Mowazar is the best option. I don't know if Dana White will give him a shot. My opinion, he deserves it. I don't understand. It makes no sense. Why don't they give Islam a fight with Gachi

why they make him fight Holloway. I mean, that's, I mean, he couldn't have said it any better. Couldn't have any better. I mean, this is just where we're at right now, guys. 300 took on a life of its own because of the over-promising. Our expectations were, like, mostly MAA communities' expectations for 300 were too high to begin with.

Because we thought, oh, it's 100 and 200. Like, let's just do that. And just those fights weren't available. And then not putting Connor on that card just off Jump Street made no sense. And they just had nothing ready to go. All the time, like, I just think back at all the times Dana was asked about 300 at the tail end of 2020. and his answer was, I'm not even thinking about 300 right now.

Why? Why are you not thinking about 300 right now? Like, you should have been thinking about that a year ago. You should have thought about that when you announced the ultimate fighter coaches. You should have been like, hey, these guys are fighting at UFC 300 in 16 months. Can you imagine that?

Like, that would be frigging cool if they did that. But they didn't. And now we were just left to scramble and try to put some shit together. And I love Gatju Hallway. As on to the next one, listeners over the years, no, this is my dream fight. This is the one I have to see at some point. But the timing of it just sucks. It just sucks. So I still love the fight. It could get real

interesting. I mean, dude, if Max Holloway beats Justin Gaichi, like he's fighting for the lightweight title. And I would watch the hell out of Max Holloway versus Zamakachev. I would. But yeah, Habib's not wrong. He's not wrong. I forget the other question, but as I usually do, I will think of it during another question. Or if someone wants to remind me, that would be wonderful. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats.

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Good morning, Mark. Good morning. I have a few questions. Firstly, what should be next for Bryce Mitchell? I think he's a really tough and weird spot right now. I still think he has a very promising career ahead of him, but do you think he may have possibly resort himself to being a gatekeeper? for the Federalade Division, or could he still become a title contender one day?

Another question I have is, do you think Polo Costa fights at USC 301? And my final question is, who do you most likely see headlining International Fight Week? That's all I have a great day. What's next for Bryce Mitchell? I don't know. he's an interesting case right like let's be clear if you go back to the archives

of my pro of programs we've done um Bryce is a very is a talented guy no doubt about it but I always question people being like oh this dude's going to fight for the belt

clearly and he's going to win a title and I just never I've never gotten there with Bryce uh and still happened if we're being honest he's still very good he is very good at grappling

but I mean you beat a guy who can grapple and strike like you throw him in there with the guy who can grapple and strike he's gonna lose more oftentimes than not and we saw it in the like we saw it with Iliott's poor yeah like he could say he's sick or whatever

like Ilya wins that fight 10 out of 10 times in my opinion like I think he'd struggle with Calvin Cater he got not dead by Josh Emmett I think he'd struggle with honor Alan, he would struggle big time with Mavzar of Lov. Because Mavzar can grapple just probably better than he can, and he can hit really, really hard. I don't think he's, like, really a gatekeeper.

I just think he's, like, a good fighter. He's got a little bit of a name. He obviously drums up a lot of attention. So, I don't know. Maybe he's just, like, a fun litmus test if you need something. So I guess technically, like, some sort of a gatekeeper role, like, give him, I'll tell you what, man, if Diego Lopez beats City Gusev at 300, give him Diego Lopez. Although I did call for that on onto the next one, the winner that fights Dan Ege.

But if something like that, Lorone Murphy would be good. Lorone Murphy. Let's do Lorone Murphy versus Price Mitchell. Let's do that. I'm good with that. I'm good with that. Will Paul Costa fight a 301? Probably not.

But maybe. No. They might do that. that they have to boost they're going to have to boost that card up big time my my thought is the ufc is very hopeful that jailton almeda runs over curtis blades next week and does it with very little effort and no damage taken because i think what they'll try to do if almeda wins that fight they'll do him versus tom aspenal's first title defense do it against jailton let's just do that like that's fine that'd be a pretty good main event tom's got

getting over, Jailton doing it in Brazil. Why the hell not? Why the hell not? But if either that fight's a war or Curtis wins, like maybe you try to get Costa on there to boost it, who do you throw them in there with? I don't think, I mean, they could do Usman. I know he's been calling for that.

Don't love that fight. Could do Hamzaa, but Hamzaa probably ain't going to Brazil. You probably just save that for Saudi or somewhere else. So maybe you try to get him on there just to kind of boost the card up a little bit. But I'll say he won't fight on 301. And then what's going to headline international fight week? From all the conversations I've had, and I know the UFC has yet to acknowledge this, but I still feel confident enough to feel like Connor and Chandler's going to headline that card.

But, I mean, I'm not the only one saying that. I know the UFC wants to control the narrative with this. and Dana wants to be the one to announce it, and that's fine, but they spoke to that fire. There's no way Connor's just making up June 29th out of all random dates. That is what, and they even announce it. June 29th is the International Fight Week card. You think Connor just pulled that date out of his ass? I think Michael Chandler is going to be like, yeah, man, we're fighting June 29th without like having the conversations first.

I think that's the fight. I think that's what we get. All right, so we got four on, I'm going to go to tack, that we got four on stiper. I got Barbarusa, and then we get the MMA consultants. So I'm going to go through all four of you. We'll get all four of you guys on, and then I got to go. We do have a preview show coming up at 1 p.m. Eastern to get you ready for UFC Vegas 87. So let's try to attack in here.

Hopefully the Wheel of Doom subsides. I think it has. No, it hasn't. Attack, you're not connecting. So bounce out and bounce back in. Oh, wait a minute. There I am. For on Tape.

You want me to go ahead? No, mute yourself for On Tapeer. I'll stay on the line. Tax Leo first. Tack, go ahead. Hey, Mike. How you doing? Good, man. So you brought up 289 earlier, and I got to tell you, I went to that card, and it was terrible. Now, you had the most legendary female fighter retired.

Nothing's done. And we went to $2.90 the next month. and Robbie Lauer retires. And what they did for him was one of the greatest moments, like, at a live event I've ever gone to. I don't know why they don't do more of that stuff. But anyways, that's not my question. That's just a comment. But earlier, there was a caller that brought up that card they did last March.

He said it was Yon versus Sandhagan. It was Yon versus Marab and that, you know, that 2,000 seat venue. And why don't they do more? that. When people are buying tickets, it would at least make them, you know, have to put together a better card. Because I got to tell you, Doug Rose versus Amanda Bebuss, that might be the worst part I've ever seen on paper, in my opinion. What do you think of that? And second, since he brought that card up, I was thinking Nikita Crylove was on that card. What the hell happened to that guy? We haven't heard anything about him for a year. And yeah, one more comment I want to say, the war between me and A.K.

is over Tacoma MMA is laying his weapons down, AK, my doo-do pick was the final straw. So anyways, thank you. That's great. Dude, Tudy and that wasn't terrible. What are you talking about? The main car is good. Mark Andre Barrier, Eric Anders is a thumpur.

Danyi and Nate Landr was great. Mike Malott, big moment. That was great. Olivera, Dyson up. Beniel was great. The main event wasn't, like, spectacular, but like Amanda had a great performance. And then she retired.

It is what it is. I don't know. Like, I think people thought she might retire, but they weren't sure if she was going to or not. And I think it was, like, perfect for Amanda. Like, I don't think Amanda needs the,

like, the tribute videos and things of that nature. Like, her career speaks for itself. It's always been, I mean, she lost a pain, yeah,

but forever, it's been up, up, up, up, up, Like, she's considered the greatest female fighter of all time. Robbie Lawler, former champion, gladiator, been doing this forever, ups and downs. Like, the casual audience, the modern MMA fan knows who Amanda Nunes is.

A lot of the join the fray during the pandemic, they have no idea who Robbie Loller is. They know he fought and they think he's not that good because he lost to, I forget, who it was at 276. Who the fuck beat him? I don't remember. But it wasn't good. And then,

you know, he goes in there with Nico Price and, like, has the incredible moment. Like, casual fans just have no idea

who Robbie Laller is. And maybe the, he's top three most exciting fighter of all time. His career is incredible. He is,

he is involved in two of the three greatest fights of all time. Carlos Condit for me is number one. Rory McDonald is in the top three for sure, and that's most people's number one. And Robbie has been around for so long. And I think, one,

we don't pay enough tribute to those fighters who have sort of paved the way. Robbie gets to cross over multiple generations. And I just think people forget how violent and fun, Robbie was as a fighter and what he was able to accomplish. This dude just like was in the UFC. It was this young, just angry dude who just flipped out in his fights and then would lose.

And then he was gone. And then he did great things in Strike Force. UFC didn't seem to want him back. And then he comes back and wins and becomes the fucking welterweight champion. And has two of the greatest fights of all time. I mean, come on. Come on. Love Robbie Lawler.

God, he's the best. But that was a great moment. We put that over so big as one of the coolest things I've ever seen. And I wish the UFC would do more of that, not just for that, just in general. Like, that was just fun. That was incredible. I'd love to see more of that. And the answer to your last question about the Virgin Hotels thing, they don't make the same amount of money doing it there.

Their production's on in-house. They have to leave the venue and hook up and do all that stuff and change everything. And they have to pay a site fee and all that stuff most of the time. well, the apex don't pay any of that shit. They stay there and they reap all the benefits. So they get allotted a certain amount of money for each event. And then how they spend that money is how they want to spend that money. If they're doing events of the apex, then they keep the majority of the money outside of the broadcast talents, more than likely.

So, I mean, it's a pretty damn good business deal for them to have their own place to house fights. And that's the answer to your question, because they make way more money. money in the apex. Even though ticket sales and all that nature, they don't have to cut out the minute. There's no middleman at all. It's all theirs. It's pretty damn good. That was brilliant on their part from a business perspective. All right, four outs diaper. Hey, heck of the morning. Can you hear me? Yes. All right. I know you got to go, so I'll make it quick, two quick ones for you. Jamie Pickett, he's on a little bit of a skin. By a little bit, I mean four, fight, losing streak. Do you think that they keep him around maybe for a couple more if he loses to Eric Andrews?

Like I'm predicting, or do you think that they'll completely cut him out of the UFC after that? And then the next one is winner of Shamil and Jarzino. I'm predicting regardless who wins, winner gets Derek Lewis. I guess right here I'm predicting Jarzino. But like I said, either one I think gets Derek Lewis. What do you think about that? That's all, Mike. Heck of my morning.

I mean, why? I cannot believe we haven't done Derek Lewis, Richard Tires, I'm going to see, like, this is the fight everybody wants. It has, like, no real meritocratic significance. It's just two dudes who hit real hard. We're going to get in there and one of them's going to fall over. Like, it's just a no-brainer. Neither of these guys are entitled contention.

Like, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? So my answer, I think, I think ultimately you're right. I think you're right. But in my eyes, if I got the pencil, I don't give a shit what happens on Saturday. Derek Lewis versus Jarzino is the next fight.

That's the one. I don't care if Jarzino losing seven seconds. We still do that. I don't want to see Gadsia fight Derek Cruz. I really don't. I feel like that's like every Derek Lewis fight. He just has to fight these dudes that aren't well known but are still really good.

And we just hope he comes through with, like, a big moment. Like, that's where Derek Lewis has gone. And, like, they'll just put him in fun fights, man. Like, that's what we should be doing. Derek Lewis should be just in fun fights. So, yeah, give me Derek Lewis versus Rosenstrike, win or lose. Either way. That's what I do.

Barbarossa. Go ahead. Your opinion, do you think they see risk the toll for the, you? of C-300 because if not we would have Justin against Islam in the summer and Max Holloway against Tobora in Spain because who else it's either this or the Volkanowski rematch because if they are talking Bernabio it's about 85,000 I don't think you can sell this out with Moser Mouss or Moussar or any one like that and my second question about the fight night tomorrow do you think any one would be affected with a shorter time for the rehydration because the

the fight is earlier than usually thank you mike no i don't think anyone's going to really be affected they've done this a few times so i think these guys are used to it um Yeah, I mean, look, we talked about this earlier, about 300, and they kind of booked themselves into a corner, and we see what's going on with 301 right now. And, yeah, so we'd love to see Islam versus Gachee, but I don't know. I mean, I just, I don't know. I don't know what to say. I mean, Charles O'Aver not fighting Islamakachev, like, screwed up everything, if we're being honest, and then they put Volk in there and all that. And now Gajee's fighting Holloway.

And, yes, we'd love to see Taboria fight Max Holloway. It's great fight, cool. But here's what I will disagree with you with. Ilya could fight me in that stadium, and they're going to sell that place out. It doesn't matter who he fights. They're going to sell that place out. They are coming for him and only him. He could fight Movzar, he could fight me, he could fight you.

They're going to sell that place out. Now, are they going to sell 85,000 tickets? I don't know. Are they going to put 85,000 tickets out there? I don't know. Could they just tarp off the upper section and just sell like 50,000 tickets? Yeah, they're going to sell it out anyways. It does not matter.

First event in Spain, Ilya defending his belt. It'd be huge. Does not matter. Paper view, different story. But honestly, I don't think the UFC honestly cares all that much. So you can do Ilya versus anybody. I do think it's going to be Volk. Could you do Ortega, sure.

But I think it's going to be Volk. And we'll see what happens. Give Holloway the next shot if Volt doesn't get it. if he's at least competitive against Justin Gachie. But like, look, Max Holloway said yes to fighting Justin Gachie. If he goes out and gets dusted at 300, how can you reward him with the title shot?

Seriously. How? Like, if he just goes out and gets kicked in the face and knocked out in the first round against Justin Gachie, are we just like, oh, you know, we love Max? This loss isn't matter because it didn't happen to featherweight. the hell are you talking about? It should matter. It should matter. Now, no one's been able to do that to Max Holloway, but if Justin is the guy to do it, how can we reward him with the title

fight? So we have to kind of wait and see how this plays out, but I do disagree with you. I think I'llie against anybody sells that playoff. Literally anybody. Go ahead, MMA consultants. You will have the final word, because I've got to go. connecting MA consultants. Try bouncing out and bouncing back in. It's not going through my man. All right. One more time. See if we can get them in. Do we have you now in a consultant? I think we do. I think I'm in. I think I'm in. What's up, ma'am? How's it going? Quick question. Actually, more of a thought starter. You know, there's always back and forth when it comes to the apex and, you know, people want in the crowd, which I understand. But do you feel like another angle for, you know, the apex and

something that people aren't really talking about is with the expansion of the UFC roster, they constantly need to keep these divisions moving and need more and more events. And I feel like that aspect of the apex isn't really talked about as much. No, and look, I'm with you on that. I would mind it less if you just made the, if there was just energy to it. Like, I understand the need for these cards. They have no choice. they are contractually obligated to give out 43 to 45 fight nights or 43 to 45 events every year.

That is their deal with the SBN. They have to do it. And the apex has been a home for it. But from a viewing perspective, us watching it home, knowing the UFC is going to be on television every Saturday. And those of us who watch every single second of every single fight on every single Saturday, it's tough, man. Like, just think about Mexico City. That crowd was electric.

They were on fire. And now we're going to go from that to the apex or it's just going to be like, you're going to hear the foot, all the movement in the cage, the bouncing up and down. You'll hear an occasional coach instruction. You'll hear six claps.

You'll hear Joe Martinez say, make some noise, if you are ready. and seven people whisper to each other while burping after chugging a beer. Like, that's what you hear. And honestly, if there was more of that, I think it'd be a little more exciting and give us more to talk about.

The problem is, there's just no energy in those events. It sucks a life out of you. Especially when it's like a 15-fight card and like the first four, six fights go to decisions and they're not good. It's just tough. Like when you have a bad card and no energy.

That's what I'm saying. like, they've been talked, like, Dana's talked about putting seats in that building, putting, like, you know, a thousand seats in there. So they can not only, like, make the fight night experience better, but they want to be able to be in a position where they can host events there, like outside of the UFC. People will pay them to use the site, probably, like, on the fight past banner. Like, just think, oh, cool would be, like, from a business perspective for the UFC.

International Fight Week. You know you're going to be a T-Mobile. You know you're going to be there. Yes, you're going to do Media Day inside the world's most famous Apex. But if you are working with the UFC, if you're like a Cage Warriors or LFA or something like that, what a perfect time to like introduce yourself

to the MMA community than hosting a Thursday night event at the Apex. and selling a thousand tickets to it. Like, that's what I think International Fight Week should be. It shouldn't just be a UFC thing. It should be an MMA thing. It's International Fight Week. It should be like,

this is what WrestleMania should be. You go to WrestleMania, yeah, you're going to WrestleMania. But you go for the rest of the week's festivities. Every organization on the planet that has any sort of buzz is hosting a show somewhere than 20 miles of where

WrestleMania is happening. Fans have other things to go to. Fans can be like, oh, I've never been to this you know, Northeast Wrestling show. But look, they get some pretty cool names on it. This is a wrestling week. Let's go and see Northeast Wrestling. And then they go and they're like, holy shit, this is great.

And now they have new fans. And they could do the same here. Bring LFA in there. They can sell tickets. And guess who makes money off of that? U.S.C. will make money off that. is their freaking building, cage warriors, even inviting Victor back for an event. Like something like that. Use that building for that week.

Like if you're not using it, put somebody else in there. You know what I mean? But they're going to end up using it for PowerSlapp or something. And that's not what MMA fans want. They want to watch MMA events. You know what I mean? Like the PowerSlapp experience,

I think, would be like, honestly, a fun go-to. Because you never know who's going to show up. Oh, is Tom Brady? you're going to show up? Who's going to show up to this thing? But when you go to an international fight week, you're like, God, I hope I get tickets for Power Slap. You're thinking, no, like, what other ammaid things can we do? You can go to the fan X, which is cool, but like, it's a three-day thing. If you go one day, like, why would you want to go back again? It should turn into just a destination for the sport, celebrating the sport, the growth of the sport, where we are today. And I don't blame the

UFC for this. I blame all the other promotions for this. God knows I don't give PFL a lot of props. PFL hosting a card that week, I think it's the day before 300. They're doing, I think it's the day before 300 they're doing an event in Las Vegas. Absolutely brilliant. Tremendously brilliance. That's what you should be doing. And that's what every other promotion should be doing too.

If I'm a BKFC, if I'm a game bread bare knuckle, I'm getting licensed in Las Vegas. and I'm putting on an event that Friday or that Thursday in Vegas because people are going to go to it. And on top of that, you're going to get media going to your events that typically wouldn't go to your events. Can you imagine that? Like, PFL is going to have so many extra media members. Karate Combat doing that card in December in Vegas was fucking brilliant.

We were there. Junkie was there. All the major outlets went. because they were there. It's just so smart to do that. And I think it would just really cool experience. I think it would have just enhanced the entire International Fight Week thing.

So there we go. All right, everybody, we're done. Thank you all very much. Preview show 1 p.m. Eastern on the YouTube channel. I don't even know who's on it. I know I'm going to be there. Broadcasting from somewhere. Maybe I'll be outside again.

Who knows? The weather stays nice. Maybe we'll do it outside. Be myself, Jed, and AK. That's a free show. Casey will obviously hop in. And then People's Free Fight Show tomorrow, 1 p.m. Eastern. And then we'll have the post-fight show as well.

But it's going to be a busy weekend, everybody. So I hope you all enjoy it. And then once this Vegas 87 event comes to a close, ladies and gentlemen, we are on the UFC 299. And it's going to get real exciting. So thank you all very much. Appreciate your patience. and we'll be back here on Tuesday.

So have a great rest of your Friday and I have a heck of a morning. The Vox Media Podcast Network.