MMA Fighting - HOAM | Will We Ever Get Jon Jones vs. Tom Aspinall? Plus, UFC 295 Fallout

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

While the idea of a Jon Jones vs. Stipe Miocic had little buzz ahead of their scheduled matchup at UFC 295 before Jones was forced to withdraw due to injury, whatever buzz was there seems to be fully gone after Tom Aspinall's 69 second destruction of Sergei Pavlovich to win the interim heavyweight title on Saturday at Madison Square Garden. The MMA world now wants to see Jones vs. Aspinall, but will we ever get it? On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck reacts to Aspinall's performance, talks the likelihood of a Jones vs. Aspinall fight ever happening, and what Aspinall could likely do next. Additionally, listener questions include Alex Pereira's historic win at UFC 295 in the main event, his callout of Israel Adesanya, where Jamahal Hill fits in the light heavyweight title picture for the UFC, Leon Edwards aiming towards a middleweight title shot if he defeats Colby Covington at UFC 296, and much more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. Tuesday, 2023, and it is indeed a heck of a morning. We are live on the M.A. Fighting Twitter space

you can do the show in its entirety. Shortly thereafter on the M.A. Fighting Podcasting Network. What's going on, everybody? I am Mike Heck. Hope you're having a wonderful start to the week. We are obviously still in the midst of the hangover from UFC 295. At Madison Square Garden, we have two new champions. We have Alex Pereira, the brand new light heavyweight champion after stopping Yuri Parashka in the main event.

Tommy Aspinall, the brand new interim heavyweight champion. after knocking out Sergei Pavlovich. And it was just a fun card. I felt like the watch party lasted like 35 minutes. It was just one of those cards that was just an easy watch. I know the star power of the card was not, you know, maybe where it was for 294 and some of the other events that we've had in the past. But I got to tell you, I don't know if I've had more fun doing a watch party. GC and I just had a blast.

It just seemed like it flew right through. And all the main card fights went to a finish. I had a good betting week. Did very well there. It was a good time. It was a good time. Benoit Santanyi is an absolute savage. There's just a lot to like.

Diego Lopez. Great win there. This guy's going to be someone the UFC is certainly going to be pushing. I know Diego called out for Bryce Mitchell. Probably doesn't get that fight. But love the gusto, Jess Gondrage with a y'all must have forgot type of performance. Just absolutely runs McKenzie Dern. That fight was really not all that competitive.

Probably from about the three minute and 30 mark of the first round. It was just all Androge. That was a mercy stoppage by the referee. It probably should have been stopped on knockdown before that. But it was just a fun friggin card. It was super fun. One of the best cards of the year in terms of entertainment value. but I know the star power wasn't quite there.

Good win for Steve Versaig. Lupi Godinez, four wins in a calendar year, first female fighter in UFC history to accomplish that with a quote-unquote split decision win over Tabat-the-Ritchie. That fight involved maybe the worst scorecard of 2023, someone scoring at 3027 for Tabat-The-Richie. And as someone that was holding a Tabat-the-Richie plus 140 ticket, even I was like, I don't even want this if I sent a.

how win this one because I would absolutely not deserve it. Matushche Rubechki, Arm bars Roosevelt Roberts, looks like a man who was the biggest favorite on the card. Incredible fight, and I don't think this is going to get enough love based on the storylines following this event, but what a friggin battle between Nazim Sadikoff and Slava Claus. That was one of the best, honestly, to me, that was one of the 10 best fights of the year. It might even be better when I go back and, like, start,

watching these for award season, but that just immediate reaction was one of the 10 best fights of the year. Ends in a majority draw. It was incredible. And I was okay with that. A lot of people just hate draws. I don't mind them. That was incredibly fun.

Jared Gordon, what a moment for him. Knocks out Mark Mattson in the first round. Be interesting to see where Mark Mattson goes from here. John Cassadenaenae, Kiyang, Kian Ho Kang, good win for Cassinata, good win for Josh Van, Jamal Emmerz. Sucks the missed weight, but what a performance from him. His first finish in over three years, his first finish since joining the UFC roster, which is kind of crazy to think about.

So yeah, hell of a night, hell of a fight card. There'll be a lot to talk about. We will have a ranking show later on today. I have a feeling we'll be divided on some of the topics coming out of this event. But let's see what you all have to say in regards of what happened on Saturday. UFC 295 we will begin with Ani you're up what's up man thank you for warning mike excuse me pardon for the voice a lot of vodka last night uh how are you doing it's good to talk to you same here my man what's on your mind so um i have two things again you know it's trademark

me being dressed me addressing drastically different topics but uh i'll make sure to be coherent so the first thing that I want to talk about is, so, you know, we watch a lot of fights. We are just excited, like absolutely excited. And, you know, fights like Max Holloway versus Yairi Rodriguez or Volkovsky versus Markachev won. Or like Alex Perreira versus Erie Prohaska, you're excited for such fights. And then there are fights that you're absolutely terrified of fights like Shogun versus Ihor was it, Ehor Potteria. And then you have fights like Frankie Edgar versus Chris Gutierrez, Frankie Edgar versus Marlon Vera. You know, those fights you're terrified of because you might, you're scared that something bad might

happen. But then there are very few fighters that actually make me feel nervous for them because I like them so much. You know, whenever I watch Max Holloway, fight. I'm just nervous, man. See, I love watching Max Holloway fight, but I get so damn nervous that I don't even want to look forward to his fights. You know what I mean? Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Like, it's so damn nervous. Like, the same thing with Dustin Poirier fights as well, because both of them are my favorites. But quite recently, I think from the past two or three years, I guess, I've been really, really high on Tom Aspinall. And I really like Tom Aspenal. And I really like Tom Asphenol and I had the opportunity to meet him and have like a 15 to 20 minute conversation

with him in Manchester last year in April 22 for you know for the for the love of MMA event where I also was able to meet GSP Bispinger or whatnot so like I just develop this you know you just develop this really fond liking towards a mixed martial artist you just want to root for them that you become so damn nervous I know you're a journalist, you're from the MMA media, and you're not supposed to show bias or liking towards an MMA fighter, but was there ever an MMA fighter before a fight started, you feel, oh my God, I'm so nervous for him? You know, when I say nervous, it's not because something horrible might happen. It's just that you just like him so much that you're nervous. You know what I mean? That's my first question. For me, it's Dustin Porier, Max Holley, Holloway and Tom Aspinall and oh my god I just I was just so happy for him and the second question drastically switching gears so it's it's with regards to Francis and Gano well he won like as

Ariel said he won he is won the sport and he's just doing so well for himself but we need to be real over here when he knows that there's so there's much more money in doing boxing fights and there's absolutely nothing with PFL. If you think about it, PFL is just, I mean, does PFL, do you think PFL would do anything for Francis and Gano at this point? Like, I think with the performance that he had against Tyson Fury, I think he can just be a boxer and not even think about mixed martial arts anymore. Like, even if he has to think about mixed martial arts, he has to go back to PFC.F.

where there's no one, really. So how does this add up and how does this add up? And I know PFL is all about there's a pay-per-view division. And if you want to talk about paper views, do you think Francis Angano versus Francis Angano is a draw, but Francis and Gano versus someone in PFL, do you think that will be a draw? Do you think PFL would do it?

because I just don't understand how this would go in the long run. Because I just feel Angano can do so much more in boxing and boxing only rather than PFL MMA. That's what I had. I just can't seem to understand what's going to happen with the PFL thing. Nothing against Engano is just, I'm unclear. That's it. So these are the two points that I wanted to raise.

Thank you so much. Thanks, man. I don't know, even the PFL is basically saying, like, we got nothing for France. right now. We have nothing that's enticing and they are on the same page as the rest of us that the only actual MMA fight that makes any sense for Francis is John Jones. And we all know that that's never going to happen. And if you were on the fence about whether or not that could happen, if you're on the side of, well, there's literally nothing stopping this fight from happening,

which is absolutely true. Just go watch Dana White's UFC 295 post-fight press conference and you will understand why that fight will never, ever happen. Because Dana's not going to let it happen. It's not going to let it happen. And it's incredibly frustrating. But I think PFL has kind of the right idea. They're just going to let Francis do his thing in the boxing world. Francis doing things in the boxing world, at least moving forward now,

is going to be a good thing for the PFL. They need to grow their brand. And if Francis has to box in order for that to happen, then that's a good thing for the PFL. Is it not as far as fights goes, at least the PFL's trying. Like they're talking about maybe doing some mixed rules fights. Like if they do Francis and Gano versus Deonté Wilder, like in a cage in like a boxing match with four ounce gloves, that's going to be massive.

That is going to be gigantic. So I think you just kind of go that route and see what happens. But in the meantime, just support Francis because anything good Francis does in the boxing world is good for your promotion. But even the PFL understands, there's no fascinating fight. Like, there's nobody currently on the PFL roster that is going to generate anything. I do understand the AK Lee, my best friend sort of path on this is like just let Francis fight anybody and just let him destroy some poor guy, which that's not a bad idea either.

But at this point, Francis is even beyond that based on the Fury performance. So we'll see what happens. there. PFL is going to be super interesting. Over the next year, we'll see if this Bellator deal goes through from what I understand it ain't done yet. I know some people are reporting that it's done, but from conversations I've had this ain't done. So we'll see. We'll see how that all pans out and we'll see if they can make this thing work. We'll see if they can make this thing work. As far as the other question goes, I mean as somebody works in the space, the only time I feel nervous

is when I'm afraid someone's going to get badly, badly hurt. Like when Dominic Reyes fights Carlos Olberg, yeah, I'm going to be like, oh, shit. Even though that was my otno pick, I kind of feel like you have to do that fight. I'll be concerned for Dominic Reyes after the bad knockouts he's had in his last few fights. But as far as, like, a certain fighter

just nervous for them fighting, not really. Even from like a watch party betting perspective, like, I don't really care because I'm betting really nothing. compared to what GC's doing. But I would say like the only fighter, like even before I got into the space, I was a big Frankie Edgar Mark.

Ever since I saw Frankie Edgar fight Tyson Griffin, I was like, this is the dude. He's going to be a champion someday. People thought I was crazy. And then he went on to become the champion. So I was always a little nervous Frankie Edgar fights as a fan. But yeah, that's where I was. Let's continue on here. Let's go to Four Corner Sports.

Go ahead, Four Cornersports. Hey, Mike. So on Saturday, I was at the event, and I got to say, for those that are inside the chat over here, have you guys never been to Madison Square Garden. I highly recommend it. I've been to a bunch of Nick games, Ranger games, et cetera, right? Going to this event, and I was bummed out about not seeing John Jones, I got to say it was worth it.

It was worth it. The crowd was going bananas when Aspinot knocked out Pavlovich. And to see it live, I mean, this guy really does move like a welterweight. I mean, the speed of the way that he was able to, you know, move around Pavlovich. And Pavlovich looked very flat-footed. I had to re-watch it on tape to see how it looked like on TV. But Aspenov's a real deal. I think that, you know, scrapped a whole steepy fight. was the Stepey John Jones fight.

I understand John wants it. But at the same time, that is a bigger fight, in my opinion, Ashtonel versus Jones, to unify the championship as opposed to Steepa versus John. I know John wants to take the fight because he wants to have on his record that he fought the greatest heavy way of all time. But Stepe is way past his prime.

It's just to have a name on the record. I don't feel like it's not going to be a significant mark. I know he might disagree, but Steve Bate is not, you know, where he was a couple years ago when he fought D.C. As for the main event, I had met Michael Chandler, and I was able to speak to him briefly, and I asked about his pick for the main event, and he says that Alex was going to be able to win as long as he was able to utilize the leg kicks, because Yuri is very herky jerky, and I agree with him.

And when seeing it there, I thought that Yeri had a lot of openings because of the way that the angles that he was throwing. But man, Alex is huge in person. The man, it looks like he hits like a truck. And I felt like, you know, in the arena, it looked like it was a good stoppage. On TV, it looked a little bit totally different. I don't know if you agree with me or not, Mike. But I felt like it was a good stoppage, you know, just because of the fact that it wasn't going to get any better for Yere with Alex on top of him.

And then lastly, and lastly, Diego Lopez is a superstar. the making i mean this guy i have a feeling that you got to have them for the international for the for the mexican independence state in this year next year because what he did to pass abatina i was like oh my god like in person it was phenomenal but yeah great experience overall in person all right thanks mike oh sorry i was muted um yeah i'm glad you had a good time with diego lopez i even said on the watch party i'm like i have a feeling that this is going to be one of those fights that may not be as competitive as we thought, like, the more I dove into things, because, you know, when you're traveling, you have a lot of time, whether

just getting on the plane and being on the plane and all the other stuff and you have time beforehand. So you go back and you watch certain fights, you jump on fight pass, jump on ESPN Plus, and you kind of watch these two and you go back and watch old fights. And I even said at the beginning of the watchfire, I'm like, I have a feeling this is going to be on those fights that the matchmakers just beautifully match made in order to get Diego over. And boy, was I right. Nailed that one. It was just great matchmaking.

We got that scramble early that we wanted. Thing got back to the feet and then Diego just booped them. Like they're able to see things oftentimes that a lot of fans don't. And I honestly didn't think that way about this fight until probably like four or five hours before it started. And I was like, man, I kind of feel like Diego's just going to go in there and kill this guy. And I even said it right before the fight started. And that's what happened. So, yeah, they got something with Diego Lopez.

I don't need to see them rush him. They got something there. But let's just build them up slowly. You know, a nice little step up. I suggested throw him in there with Alexander Hernandez next. A veteran, somebody with a name. A winnable fight more than likely. I think that's some good matchmaking right there.

I had no issue with the stoppage at all. Didn't have an issue with the stoppage of the main event at watching it live. Didn't have it watching the replays. Didn't have it now. And I certainly didn't have it when Uri himself said that was a good stoppage. That's all you need. That should end the conversation right there. If Uri Perashka says he's fine with the stoppage,

then everybody else should be found the stoppage. the aesthetics of it were terrible they were terrible Pereira lands the big shot he goes for the takedown he's landing the elbows you see Yuri's body just go limp and collapse to the ground where Pereira lands in full mount all of that was just bad and he was going to get hurt real real bad if that fight did get stopped so no issue with stoppage at all and Tom Aspinall like you know like we talked about throughout all of this

if there's one guy that's going to keep John past the steep A fight, it's, well, there's two, Francis, but that fight's ever going to happen. It's Aspinall. He's the guy that potentially could keep John around for another fight. We'll see what happens. But that was an incredible performance. It just goes out there in Isis, Sergey Pavlovich, and we'll see what's next. He needs to defend.

If they go back to London before the John Jones steep fight happens, which I'm saying, my guess the earliest that fight happens is probably international flight week. You got to throw Tom on that card and let him do his thing, whether it's with Cyril Gahn or Almeda or whoever. But they got something there. They cannot let him sit out all next year waiting for John. No friggin' way. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex.

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Dominic, go ahead. Dominic. Yeah, hello. There we go. What's up, man? What's up? What's going on? Listen, you know, just a couple of questions, a couple things to say.

I like listening to your show. So, you know, I watched the fight, and, you know, so many of the UFC fights, you know, I guess the leg kicks are such a big part of it. But, man, I was impressed in just crazy, like, Pereira's freaking leg kicks are so devastating. It's like it just makes me wonder why, you know? Is it because he's so big? uh uh, you know, his leg kicks, man, just really messed up Prohaska. And I think the thing with the stoppage is, you know, most fans, I don't know, when it comes to a championship fight, it's kind of like a lot of people want to see the guy, you know, totally be put out. You know what I mean? Like give the guy the chance. It's for the belt. You know what I mean? Um, so I don't know. You know, I think I agree with the guy that just talked on TV. I think it kind of looked bad. But then,

Yuri said that, but I think Yuri, he seems like such a respectful guy that I think he just said that out of respect for the UFC. That's just my opinion. But with the Aspinall thing, I really feel like if anybody is capable of giving John Jones a run for his money, it is definitely Tom Aspinall the way that he is. It's just you could just tell and see how he fights and how strong and how fast he is just like John. I'm a big Stepe Meiosis fan, so I kind of understand John wants that fight. And I just hope Stepe doesn't get embarrassed out there because, you know, I'm from Ohio, and I just, I love Stepe, so I don't want to see that happen to him.

And I guess furthermore than that, two things I wanted to say is I've seen this thing online about Dana wanting to have a UFC fight at the freaking sphere, man. And I'm like, how the hell is he going to do that? that, you know what I mean? That would really be something. And then I guess the last thing I want to say is when I was on here last time, I heard the one Ravens fan saying how bad the Browns were, but how about them Browns? So that's all I got to say. Thanks, man. Yeah, they're going to the spear. Dana, that's his mission.

And they said they already, they basically already booked it for that weekend. And then we got the whole, hey, if you doubt me, wait until you see what we do. here. And you know, like when Dana feels like people believe he can't do something, I mean, just look at power slap. We just, it's so terrible and like it's nobody cares, but they still shove it down our throats. This will be the 2024 version, but at least it's a UFC thing. And I'm curious about it. Like, that's going to be a huge deal. That's going to be a very big event when it comes around. So very cool.

Very cool. And again, I didn't have a problem with the stoppage in the main event. I really didn't. I understand the people who spent money and all that. You want to see a conclusion you could be, everyone can be happy with. Just the aesthetics of it looked really bad. It looked really, really bad.

But you're going to be back. And I have a feeling that's not going to be the last time those two guys fight each other. I feel like this could be the start of something. something really special between those two guys. I think we may get another fight, maybe two out of these guys, which would be awesome. I mean, just look at the fate. Like when Prahashka got into the Octagon, just everything that built up to the first

punch being thrown was the best. It was the freaking best. Kudos to the UFC. Kudos to their production team. They absolutely nailed that. Just Pajaska staring at daggers through Pereira. staring daggers right back at him, not even blinking. Over the shoulder shot, over Pajaka's shoulder,

just looking across the octagon and Alex Pereira, who looks like he's ready to get shot out of a cannon. It's just, it was incredible. It was awesome. It was frigging awesome. By the time, Mark Goddard gave the final instructions. Like, I was ready to run through a wall. I could not wait.

That was just incredible stuff. Everything was great. everything was great and we'll see where all these guys go aspiral jones is the fight i want to see but i don't think we're going to get it viking go ahead hello hello sir how are you i'm good how are you i'm not good

i i want to i want to ask a question about mackenzie darn so if i'm not wrong and if i if I remember correctly you said on the on to the next one about her that she must go and find some new coach better coach and better team for her and then she should decide her next fight so do you have do you have still do you still have same suggestion for her or not.

Thanks a lot, mate. Thanks, buddy. I don't think I actually said that. We were all curious why Jason Perilla wasn't in the corner. If you watched the MMA hour last week with Cheeto Vera,

Ruka is closed. But Cheeto also said, like, when they get a new space up and running, that Jason's going to be a part of it. So I don't know if like, I don't know why Jason was in the corner. I have no idea. But McKenzie just did not look good. She looked terrible in the fight.

She got absolutely iced by Jessica Andrade. And I feel like her title run is gone. Like, it's over. I know she's only 30. And I know there's still time. And I know the UFC really tried to build her up. But they have just, they've given her so many chances to get over the hump and she just can't do it. And these fights aren't even close.

They're not close. Marina Rodriguez, outside of like one round where things got a little hairy with the submissions. It was all Marina. Janjo Nan, same thing. This was just an absolute massacre.

And yeah, it's just a tough night. I feel like she's just kind of, McKenzie's just going to kind of be in a gatekeeper role for a while. You can still make a very good living doing that, taking tough fights, but I think she's now the Caitlin Chutagian of the 115 pound division.

That's what she's going to be. And there's nothing wrong with that. So she's just going to have to fight really tough fights now. My suggestion, Lupi Godinez. Let's do that fight. There are those two in there, and let's see what you got. Loopy can beat McKenzie Duren. Give her a bigger fight.

But Loopy won four fights in a calendar year. She deserves the opportunity. And McKenzie's a fine fighter. Her one skill is good enough to beat anybody. But at this point, you want to talk about leg kicks and the impact of leg kicks on a fight? Jessica Androge, just leg kicked McKinsey Dern into another dimension to the point where McKenzie just knew she was cooked. You can see at the end of the first round. She was backpedaling hard.

She did not want to get hit anymore. She did not want to get kicked in the leg anymore. And And Androge just annihilated her. So, yeah, I mean, if she does decide to go. go elsewhere yeah go elsewhere go to ATT find like a camp find a good team just find a really good team that's just gonna get you better get you better because we know what mackenzie needs to get better we saw some of that in the angela hill fight with her aggression and delivering ground and pound but the other thing that she needs she just hasn't been able to figure out is just getting takedowns

like classic m m m ms she just doesn't have it it's the same thing that's the same thing same trick every time. Her singles, her doubles, they just look so bad. You're not going to win a title like that. You're just not. She's very talented. Like, her striking has gotten a lot better,

but she had just a really tough night. And I don't know if she can really come back from that. She could still get wins in the UFC, but I just feel like outside of a crazy short notice, last second follow in a title fight, I don't know if we're ever going to see McKenzie Dern in a title fight. It's tough.

stuff. Henry, go ahead. Hey, Mike. Yeah, I just want to start this call off by echoing the words of a certain Atlanta resident by just saying, ain't it a damn shame that our boy Johnny Jones is just so damn scared of Tom Aspinall. Like, come one, man. We need to see that damn fight. So I'm going to follow Jez rhetoric and I'm going to create that narrative and I'm going to push it because I really want to see that Tommy Aspinall and John Jones fight. And secondly, B.S. Freakin' man, that guy is a monster. We've been knowing it, but I think,

oh, after Saturday, after what he did for Vola, like, what's the ceiling for this man? And I was shocked to know that he's 27, which is even crazier to me, that this guy, he's going to be in some fun fights. And it's always like, lightweight just has these cool, violent fighters,

and it always happens to be at 155, and I freaking love it. And also, post-fight interview with Pereira, when obviously he called out Adisanya, Jamal Hill didn't look too best pleased. And to be honest, like, I'm not the biggest fan of Jamal Hill, and I wasn't really sure if the fan base were kind of with me on that one.

But it just, it feels like the guy has the world's biggest chip on his shoulder, and he's just, I don't know, there's just a weird vibe about him. I don't know whether it was because of him spouting the misogynistic views around the Dana incident and New Year's Eve and stuff. But yeah, just something about Jamal Hill really rubs me up the wrong way. I don't know if a lot of the fan bases like that too, but yeah, that's it for me, really. I mean, look, if you're Jamal Hill,

you would think that Alex calling out Izzy is like a really good thing for you. It's a great thing for you. Look, I don't know who has suffered an Achilles rupture or tear, but it sucks. Like, it sucks. Jamal ain't fight until the summer.

He ain't coming back before that. And there's no way right now with the role that Alex Pereira is on, that they are going to bench him for eight months. No frigging way. So if you're Jamal Hill and you're going to fight the winner, whoever the champion is at the time, wouldn't you rather fight Pereira or Adisania? 1,000%.

If Izzy beats Pereira, that trilogy is, done. And then Jamal Hill will fight Israel out of Sanya. Like, that's a huge fight for Jamal. Those are the two biggest fights he can possibly have right now. What's the other, what's the alternative? What's the alternative? And Johnny Walker on January 13th, I'm picking Angolaev to win that fight. And then he's got to fight possibly Ankolaev. Why would he want that? Why would he want that? He should have been totally fine with that. They're not going to bench Pereira until next summer. They're just not going to do that. he should be thrilled with him calling out of sanya to be real but the longer he's out the moment

the more momentum he loses because his momentum was at a sky high when he won the belt and by the time it's going to be literally what it'll be january july so what's that 13 14 15 so like 18 months between fights he's really not a position to really call anything right now so we'll see I mean, look, Jamal Hill versus Alex Pereira will be one of the top five fights that I am looking forward to watching. I have so many questions about Jamal Hill. I need to know if he's really good or if he just had a really great night against Culver-Teshirea. I have those questions. And if he goes out and just runs over Alex Pereira, I have my answers.

The dude is officially the best light heavyweight in the world, if that's the case. But until then, he's been ragged number five on... our rankings, even when he won the belt, and he hasn't moved an inch. He has not moved at all. So I want to see that fight, but he's not really in a position to say anything because he's out, he's hurt.

It's off the table right now. Let's go to J-Mack. What's up, J-Mack? Mike, so first of all, I want to say somebody that's not happy to hear that Pereira called out. Adasanya is Jan Bahovic. Yeah, he said that he's weak, pathetic.

He shouldn't be calling him out. I like to call out because, like you said, Jamal Hill's going to be out for quite a while, so I don't see him coming back anytime soon, and they need to keep the division rolling. But who do you think that the UFC will match up with Pereira next? And also, who do you think, do you think Tom Aspinall waits for,

not John Jones, but he's definitely going to have to defend because John Jones isn't going to fight for at least another year. And who do you think they match up Tom Aspinall with? And one more thing. What did you think about Dana White totally saying that he would not do the cross-promotion with Francis? And do you think his moniker of, I put on the best fights, I put on the fights that fans want to see.

It's starting to kind of lose its luster now. All right, thanks, Mike. I'll listen to your answers on that. We know that fight's not happening. Dana is not going to risk John losing to Francis. He's not going to. He's not going to. Francis probably beats John at this point.

Like, who the hell knows? I don't know. But Dana has enough doubt after watching what Francis did against Issevary. Not that they're the same sport. But he has enough doubt now that those, that whole thing of, hey, listen, if John fought Francis instead of Cyril gone, the same thing would have happened. We didn't hear that on Saturday. We did not hear that on Saturday.

So look, we know we're not going to get it. The UFC's not going to do that. They are not going to risk their guy going in there and losing to Francis and Gano and boosting the PFL. It's not going to do it. And you know what? Devil's advocate? They don't have to. They are printing money left.

They're printing so much money. They did a freaking $12 million gate at MSG on Saturday with a card that for the hardcores, we loved it. For the casuals, they had zero. zero interest in the card, Zippity doodah, and they still drew a $12.5 million date. They don't need to book Jones versus Francis. They don't have to. So I get it from that perspective. Will we get Aswell versus, will Asman I'll fight before that? Yeah, probably. Probably fight zero gone. That'd probably be the fight that ends up happening.

I mean, if they go to London before July, then Tom's going to probably headline that card. They'll do him and Cyril for the interim belts and we'll go from there. But I don't know. I'm curious to hear from John on this. Because Tom Aspel is completely right. What do you say in the MA are yesterday? There's just whatever buzz there was for John versus Depe, and there wasn't a ton to begin with, it's gone.

Like there is no buzz for that at all. Zero buzz. Absolutely none. So maybe they'll pivot. I doubt it. But weird scenario. They should just pivot to the Aspidal fight, try to convince John to do it. Honestly, I think it would come down to money for John.

Be like, if they called John right now and said, hey, we'll pay you $5 million more to fight Tom Aspinall over Steepa. You think he'd say no to that? I don't know. The UFC, look, one thing we've learned here, the UFC has a ton of money. They could make a move like that. They could offer John $10 million more to fight Tom. If they wanted to, yeah, I'll say Ashtadol fights gone. Somewhere in the UK, sometime before the summer.

Kurt, go ahead. Hey, Mike, can you hear me? Yep. Awesome, man. Thank you for doing this show. It's always a pleasure to listen. And thank you for making yourself available to speak to a bunch of us, even though it's a smaller type of a crowd.

I wanted to ask you about, you know, what is, I know that people have been asking what's next for Alex Pereira. And I just want to know, like, it kind of, it's making me uncomfortable. People keep bringing up, bringing Israel back into the mix, where I think that it's being forgotten. And it's not being talked about or even ever being talked about of why he's taking a break. I mean, I've seen, I've heard you kind of elude to it and other people, but it's, it's a PR thing. He lost a lot of fans, you know, that when he did that, that racial rant thing after the DDP fight, that was disgusting.

And a lot of people were turned off by that. And, and then Sean, kind of, Sean Strickland kind of was like the nail in the coffin with him when he brought out the things with the animated porn that Izzy Wals. watches and then the whole thing with a dog. And so the biggest story following Israel's defeat to Sean wasn't so much to me was the lack of support and fans that he had at that arena in Australia. Like that entire arena was behind Sean. And the question that wasn't asked was like, why? It was like they turned on Izzy.

And so I'm like, why don't we talk about? about that Israel needs to take an indefinite break out of the line. He needs to stop tweeting. He needs to just stay out of interviews and just be silent so that he can come back in maybe a year to just rebuild his brand and rebuild his image within the community. And so I just want to... I think we lost you, Kurt. But I got, I have the premise. I have the premise. I'm ready. Ready to rock and roll with all this. Um, I, look, I love the call. out. It makes a lot of sense. Alex understands that there's no, I mean, that's, that's honestly

the best fight for him in a lot of respects from a business sense, because Jamal Hill ain't fighting anybody right now. Jamal is going to be out for at least another eight to nine months. So Alex understands that he has a ton of momentum right now. Alex also understands that him fighting maga man incolyev ain't gonna draw dime even with alex being over as much as possible so yeah go get izzie maybe they do it at ufc 300 maybe that's the main event for 300 who who the hell knows now there's john cavana said the m a hour now they're talking about maybe doing him and chandler in the summertime but yeah that's a that's a lot of time to milk here but we need something to headline ufc 300 and

And look, if Izzy says no, I want to take more time, then good on them. Good on them. I think honestly, people are just kind of done with Izzy. Like, not done, but they're just kind of sick of him. Like, the dude is fighting every three months. He was as, he was as active as you could be. You didn't get a chance to even miss him. Because by the time, like, the dust settled from his previous fight,

he was already, like, rebooked for his next one. So there was, like, you can't miss you if he don't leave. So if they do like September to April, like that's something. That's at least some sort of a break. I would like to see him take a longer one, honestly. But Izzy's also not like the youngest guy in the world either. How old is he Zerrataata? He's in his, how old is he?

He is 34. He'll be 35 in July. He ain't getting any younger, man. he ain't getting any younger and i don't think this guy wants to fight forever so i already get 27 mhm a fight's got a ton of kickboxing fights dude's got mileage on him and a lot of it so i don't know how long of a break he takes but i i thought the call it was great i i thought the call it was great made a lot of sense with where this division is right now and the whole thing with strickland and izzie getting over and the fans turning on him is he's not from australia

from New Zealand. He fights out of New Zealand. City kickboxing is in New Zealand. And I know for a time, like when he fought Whitaker and all that, like, there's obviously some fans there, but like people act like in a lot of respects. And I'm not saying you're doing this, but they think like Australia and New Zealand are the same place. They ain't. They're not the same place. They're not. There's like a budding rivalry between Australia and New Zealand as well, and a lot of respect. So, and then Sean just somehow got over as the baby

face. I don't know. I think I think kind of anybody would have gotten over at that point against Izzy. I think people would just, I don't know, they just need a little breather from him. Because he ain't going to change. That's just who he is. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see. But I kind of don't think he's going to fight in April, but maybe if they throw something big his way, they'll do it. Simply Rob, go ahead. Hey Mike, good to see you, brother. How's everything on your end? Good. What's going on, my man? I appreciate it, Mike. I just had a quick question for you.

I heard Dana White, we were talking about the heavyweights. Dana White said that he was uninterested in making the event between Jones and Ngano, and he said, oh, you know, I'm not interested. We try to make that event. And I think it's interesting because people don't realize that he tried to make that event, but it wasn't beneficial for both parties. And I'm just wondering if there is no Jones versus Steepet and he doesn't want to do the asthma, do you think that there's an opportunity in a year or that he gets kind of pushed into a corner to do a co-promotion with and gun no no the fight is never

i'm going to say it's never going to happen but if there's something like a step below never going to happen that's where we're at dana is a is as stubborn as they get uh i am also very stubborn so i get it but in this sense they're just they're not going to do it they're just not going to to. And I love how all the blame on this was on the Francis side when it absolutely should not be on the Francis side. John's the one who took three years to fight and get up to heavyweight. They wanted to make this fight. They tried. They couldn't get both guys involved. John's tough to lock down. And then when Francis left, it turned into, well, let's bury this dude under a whole bunch of dirt on the way out. And they continued to do that. And now that Francis had the moment

that he had against Tyson Fury, like the UFC is never going to, like unless it's like a boxing thing, they are never going to co-promote somebody where their fighter is not the A side. And right now, Francis is the A side and John is the B side. And the UFC wants nothing to do with that.

And they don't want to risk building that Francis powerhouse after Francis said, fuck you, UFC, I'm out of here, I'm doing this on my own. And they could sit there and tell you, to the red in the face. We released him. We didn't want him.

Bullshit. Francis said, fuck you, I'm out of here. That's what he did. And look at him now. He showed that you can have success outside of the UFC. And the UFC certainly is going to build upon that. Now, as I said before, they don't have to.

They don't need to make this fight. And they will do just fine. This helps the PFL way more than it helps them. and they're not in the business of helping PFL, nor should they. And if they never booked this fight, it is not going to cost them a damn cent because they will find something else. They can book anything at this point. It'll make money.

Again, they just did a $12.5 million gate at Madison Square Garden without a single star on the lineup, like a casual appeal superstar on the lineup. And they did a $12.5 million gate at Madison Square Garden without a single star. a superstar. It don't matter. They are going to make money. They don't need to make the fight. They're winning. It sucks. There's literally nothing standing in the way except for the UFC. And Dana's not going to do it. It's not going to do it. We're not going to see it, my friends. There's a saying in the world, never say never. I'm going to say probably say never. probably say never with this one i would be i would literally be shocked if this fight ever happens

and it hurts my soul but that's where we're at uh bryan go ahead long time no speak yes what's going on all right so i got a question we know that uh john jones is like terrified of tom afspanel obviously so i love this so much so what happens i mean if tom say defend interim title next year in London like you were saying like does that go on his record for a title defense because i mean i think he could beat the heavyweight title defense record and i feel like interim title defenses wouldn't count but i don't know i just wanted to kind of get your thoughts on that thanks i mean it should count as a title it should count as an official title

defense it is a championship so i mean we saw hen and brow defend the the interim bannam weight title for a minute. So yeah, I would say it counts towards, towards records in some respects. It should. We also have to understand that this is something my best friend A.K says all the time. And it's true. Belts are these belts, they're props. They are props in a lot in a lot of ways. So the UFC could do this however they want. If he goes out there and gets a couple title defenses before Jones does, he could be like, hey, John, I got more. title defenses than you do so yeah i think he's just fight zero gone john will fight stepey and if john says hey i'm out of here then john will get stripped and tom will become the actual

champion he'll just get he'll graduate to the undisputed championship but i love how a lot of you are heeding the advice of jenn meshu and just saying hey let's just all come together and say that john John's scared of Tom Aspenall and maybe we will test his ego enough for him to be like, y'all think I'm scared? Watch this shit. Boom. We all know that's not true, but I think if we all collectively put it put it in that position, as Jed said, you know, maybe we'll entice him. I don't know. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line, but first, there, the last one. Enjoy a cocoa. Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.

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Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Cole, go ahead. John, you're scared, homie. You're scared. You keep running from Tom. But I just got a couple things to say about the broadcast. I agree with you that moment before the main event when they let that base off kind of breathe before they went into the intro as was just chef's kiss.

However, if the UFC, just one thing they don't do well is if they're going to continue to have these interim title fights, in just weird kind of division situations, they have to like do a better job at informing the casuals watching about how we got to this point. Like I'm watching this with friends and they're like, who the fuck? So what does this belt mean? That guy had a belt too. Like what?

So he won it and he lost it and sort of that guy. Well, who's his Jamal Hill? It's just like they need to do a way better job at prefacing where we're at. in each division or before the each title fight happens or something another thing i got to say is rogan like what are you doing with the androge interview like she's one of the greatest women in our sports history and the main storyline of this fight is really going to be her divorce like come on really that's that's what we're ending the interview with and that's what we're talking about okay that's that's cool yeah my friend texting me you said

Andrade should be a rich woman in the UFC based of what she's done. The UFC should have made her rich by now. So you want your thoughts on that to broadcast, you know? Thanks. Thank you. I mean, look, the light heavyweight has been a mess. And we just did something heading into the fight about, you know, whether or not this main event was going to start the cycle of normalcy in this division.

and if I felt like it took 10 minutes to actually write out how we got here. So I think they could be like, hey, we used the countdown show and built this up and told the story and yada, yada, yada. But it's just a lot to talk about on the broadcast without losing people. But I do understand what you're saying there. Rogan had a tough night. I will say once the watch party starts, can I hear some of the commentary in my ear? Yes. Is it very loud?

No. So I know what's happening somewhat, but I'm not really paying attention to it. But I did watch obviously the prelims. And yeah, man, he's, he could be tough. When him and D.C. are on one and, like, Anik feels that. They are really good together.

But when Rogan's, like, unprepared, and he is unprepared, he's unprepared more than more often than not, It's tough and it's kind of contagious in a lot of respect. So Rogan doesn't really know who a lot of these prelim fighters are, knows some about him because he reads what other websites are saying because you can tell by some of the things he says. But yeah, he wasn't great from what I could hear. I did hear the Andrage interview and I thought that was kind of weird.

So, but yeah, Rogan ain't going anywhere. As long as Dana's part of the company, Joe's going to be around. And to his credit, the fights, the events, they feel bigger when Joe's part of it.

It's just true. Whether you love his commentary or not, the event just feels bigger when Joe is there. But yeah, he was not, he was not great on Saturday. All right.

So I'm running out of time here, but I see four people lined up, so let's rapid fire these. As well, how you're doing? Good. Yeah, so just two questions for me. Firstly, congrats to Benoit.

I was really impressed with his win, and I had him winning on my own personal betting. I'm just really curious to see what's next thing, because right now the lightweight division to me is a bit, I just feels a bit like in a limbo. As much as a lot of rankings have been changing all over the place, I just can't think of what's the best fight for him to make. I mean, Physio, if he's out for probably a whole year,

he could do Gamera. I mean, that's definitely a good fight, and I think that's the best fight the UFC can make right now for Gamera and Benoit. But if not that, do you think he could get the winner of Bobby Green versus Dan Hooker? Because I can see that happening. I think that'd be a really good fight.

And I also think they need to remove RDA from the rankings because it doesn't make sense. The guy's never going to find that white class part. possibly ever again. So might as well take him off the rankings, put maybe Grand Dawson or Maffirivola back in the rankings, you know, it makes sense. The other thing I want to talk about is Al Jermaine Stirling. I'm sure he probably saw his interview today. He was talking about how he got offered three fights in the Federalweight Division. One of them was Calvin Cater. You know, he needs to, I love Al Jermaine, but he needs to start with this bloody, buddy shit, man.

Like, you're a competitor, you're a fighter, you need to take the best possible fight that can put you in the title shot immediately if he wants to find the featherway class that is because I don't right now I can't I can't imagine you'll see a picture for him trying to fight again for the title shot whether it's a banter way or featherway the only shot he has a banter way is if chiro vera puts the upside against shorn or mali because then I can see that possibly happening you know and I can't see them putting marab at the front of the title unless he beats a hoodo the UC has to as a standard of precaution and, you know, integrity for the sport, you know, because I could see Henry Tshahudo fighting Sean Amali if Sean Amali was to win, and Henry wins against Marab.

You know, I feel Al Jemans really stuck right now because even the featherway, it's kind of hard. I think he has a good chance, but obviously the stylistic matchups for those fights are not easy, whether he fights Sierra Rodriguez, you know, Brian Ortega, but it could put him over the hump and line. head of a say, Arnold Alon or Mavsa, in my opinion. I just curious, you know,

get your thoughts on that, man. Have a great day. Thank you. Sonson, he is an animal. I called that one. Didn't think he'd kick for a bowl in the face

in like two minutes, but yeah, it's, dude is going to be tough to beat. And they're going to have a lot, a pretty difficult time matching him up. And I think the UFC knows that.

I love the post-fight interview. Not going to happen. The Gamrot, Kalo, potentially, but if I'm Gamrot, fuck that. I ain't touching that fight right now. Like, no way. He was the freaking backup fighter for the title fight a month ago. He's not going to fight Binwasantini, who's, I think he ranked number 11 in the UFC rankings right now. So, yeah, he ain't doing that shit.

No friggin' way. And I don't blame him for that. I don't blame him for that. it's the hooker green winner. That's the answer. That's who he's going to fight. I see a lot of people saying Jalen Turner and yeah, that's fun. Sontadie is ahead of Jalen Turner right now.

Jalen's coming off of a loss. And I think they have something with this guy, like even more than Jalen in a lot of respects. So you could do that fight, but is Jalen going to be able to even make the lightweight limit anymore? Like he's getting older. That dude is a monster. Like, getting down to 155 is not easy.

So I wonder if Jailen is just going to go to 170. So I don't, honestly, like, it's a fine fight. If they make it, I'm not going to complain about it. But we know for a fact that either Dan Hooker or Bobby Green are going to say yes to fighting this guy. And they could probably do a main event, whether it's at the apex or if they go back to Paris sooner or rather than later, Hooker or Green versus Benoit Sonsigni could be the main event of UFC Paris. So can't wait to see what's next for him. I could definitely see a world where he fights for a belt.

I don't think it'll be this year. I don't think it's going to be 2024, maybe the end of 2025. It's going to be a long road for him because I think he's going to have a hard time getting fights. But yeah, I think the timing of this one was perfect, especially heading in. into the Dan Hooker Bobby Green fight and get the winner. Love it. Absolutely love it. Yes, I saw the Sterling thing mentioning some names and Calvin Cater being one of them.

Yeah, dude, his Banimate Days are over. And he should have just acknowledged that right off the bat. Because he ain't fighting Sean O'Malley. Like that fight is a rematch with Schottomalley only happens if Al Jameen Stirling wins the featherweight title. and Sean still the band of white champion. Only way that fight ever, ever, ever, ever happens. So instead of being like, well, you know, maybe I'll get the rematch. No, you have no chance at the rematch.

Sean O'Malley will never fight you again unless you have the belt at 145. Because he doesn't see the need to fighting you. He's already beat you. He already knocked you out. You will not do it again. That's why he smartly said, Cheeto, let's go. Sean calls the shots in that division right now. friggin' man. But I also believe that's why he is so much riding on this fight with Cheeto.

It's very difficult to say that a guy with star potential like this is in a must-win situation, but I got to tell you, out of all the six title competitors who are getting ready to fight in 2024, I think Sean O'Malley has the most to lose and that includes Alexander Bolkinovsky. Sean has to be Cheeto. If he wants to box, if he wants to become a megastar, he's got to beat Cheeto. The win over Sterling is great. It's a great start, but it ain't everything. It's always about the first title defense, always about the next one. He goes out there and he knocks out Barlen Vera. He is on a rocket ship. And if he loses, yes, he will still be successful. Yes, he will still make money in the sport. But Gervante Davis and all the boxing ideas,

all of that stuff goes away. It's gone. And it's never coming back. So the difference between a star and a fucking superstar rides on whether or not he beats Chito Berra. And then from there, you can go box and do whatever. As far as, yeah, I like the Sterling Cater fight. I think it's a good start. Tough fight for him. A guy who can, because Cater can wrestle and he's clearly a better striker. He's got pretty good wrestling takedown defense.

like that's actually a pretty interesting stylistic matchup and if sterling beats a guy like cater you throw them in there with holloway and if you go and beat holloway then you get a title shot like it's not a bad road it's a long it's a shorter road at 45 getting to a title shot than it is at 135 so at least that's what i think right now so it'll be interesting to see but sean o'malley's never fighting marab that fight's never going to happen by the way like if sean goes doesn't beat Cheeto, he's just either, he's either going to go box or he's going to go fight somebody else. He's not going to fight him around. I can see it. I see a world where an interim title could come into play at 135 and 2024. But yeah, Sean's going to do the

prize fighter thing, and he should. He should. Uh, so we'll go, Mikey, Nicholas, and Emilio. If we have a second, we'll go to one more, but we really got to get going here. Mikey, go ahead. It's done, Mikey, man. Sorry, it took so long so it just abbreviated what I was going to say. But anyways, just first off the bat, it, regardless of which way you stand on the stoppage between Yeri and Alex, the key word has to be that it was a fair stoppage. If it lasted a couple of more seconds and then he stopped them, that's fine. But people pretending like the stoppage was genuinely bad, I think are being disingenuous.

And I'll expand upon that at a later date. As for what's next for Yeri, it may not make sense. for his ranking, but sometimes, you know, if you basically fought and beaten everybody else at the top five, time to kind of like, you know, give somebody below you a bit, I would like to see him fight Kriloff because, yes, because chaos. And two, just to piggyback off what Four Fourth Sports said earlier, listen, I understand fans can have standards and all that stuff. I understand if, like, the appeal of the card overall didn't look great. But as a sports romantic, like you and I are both fans of other sports, if you, you, you know, you and I are both fans of other sports,

if you can't get up to go see a card at Madison Square Garden because it's Madison Square Garden, that I think sometimes, I think MMA fans sometimes lose perspective. They want, listen, I get you want a great card. I won't get you want the best possible card.

But I think sometimes people got so weary with the apex and all this stuff that you understand that when the UFC does go on the road, take into account where they're going. They go to the Madison Square Garden once a year. And it's Madison Square Garden. I feel like just as a destination, Like, if you're a fight fan, go to the Massachusetts Gorman. Listen, I've been fortunate living here in Vegas.

I've seen hockey and hockey and wrestling and UFC fights at T-Mobile Arena. And that place never gets old to me. You know what I mean? So anyways, that'll be all kind of another. I have a great fight week, guys. Yeah. And that's why I like, look, we even talked about it on our preview shows and stuff of that nature. Like, this isn't for the casual fan.

Like, $2.95 was for us. This was our card. This is for the hardcores. But I also understand from a different perspective that compared to a lot of the other MSG lineups, this was not great. Like there are certain events that fans expect more from, from a lineup perspective. And while we love $2.95 for what it was, and the UFC did a great job getting us Aspinall-Pavlovich on short notice and making that work, compared to.

281 and 205 and 268 and some of these other MSG cards, this on paper was not very good compared to those. And it didn't matter because they still did almost a $13 million gave of MSG. Like I said, this was for us. That was our card. And would this card been as good with John on it? On paper for the hardcores?

Probably not. But it would have done better business. for the UFC would have done more pay-frey bars there would have been more buzz there was very little buzz for this card all week and that's not necessarily a bad thing so that's why we continue as to said like this one is for us this is the card that we want but in terms of getting the casual audience involved this did nothing for that it really didn't john jones deep a everything would have been bigger but it made we may not have been have enjoyed it as much as much as we did so it's okay to want more it's okay to want more

especially for the MSG cards. There's majors. There's like International Fight Week. There's the December card. There's MSG. And then maybe you throw in like one of the March cards. Like those are the four events that are like, okay, we know that when we get to that, to those events that these cards are going to be fucking loaded, stacked to the gills.

And you can probably throw Abu Dhabi in there as well. So maybe there's five, four or five. like we know we are going to get a stacked card we haven't really gotten a ton of that this year like 285 was pretty stacked Jones's return we got Jones and gone we got Shepchenko and Grasso we got Shafkat and Jeff Neal

like we got a pretty damn 296 is a frigging banger like that is a great card but I mean top to bottom 295 even compared to 281 it wasn't the same man Like, it just wasn't the same.

Like, we got Dustin Porre, Michael Chandler as the featured bout last year. Didn't get that here. So I can understand some of the frustrations from that. But, yeah, I loved it. I was all in on it. It was the best. And it was a breezy watch. I don't know if you can get much better than that.

All right. We'll take two more real, real quick. In and out. Nicholas, go ahead. Not much. What's up? I just have two questions. First of all, it's pronounced Benoit, just to get that out there.

And yeah, Benoit sat there. Why is Jamal Hill so unlikable? I mean, I don't get that man's sense of humor. What's this deal, seriously? And will there be a watch-along party on the big card now on Saturday? And I hope Amanda Heba has a strong back. Will we do a watch party on Saturday? God, no.

That's a tough hang. Tough hang this one. one. Next watch party will be December 16th for GIFC-296. Very excited for that. We rarely do the watch parties outside of the pay-per-views, but we did it for Ingano Fury because it's a big card and not a lot of people wanted to spend $80 on it, which is like the big purpose of it.

But outside of like just the weird boxing fights that get some traction but nobody wants to buy, watch parties will just do. the way we normally do it. Jamal Hill. I don't know, man. I like Jamal Hill. He's a pretty intense guy. I don't love the whole YouTube persona, if I'm being honest, this whole, hey, Ariel said

something I don't like, so let's just do a whole video about it. And that whole thing, like, we know what it is, honestly, at this point. know what it is. And Jamal's just the dude. Like he's just who he is. He's not going to change for anybody. That's just the kind of guy he is.

He is a little bit unlikable. I like him. He is not happy with the MA fighting Global Rankings Panel because we have ranked him number five, yet we've ranked him number five since he won the belt.

Because we still have questions. I understand winning a UFC title is great. Like it is a great accomplishment. But the way he won it on short notice against 41-year-old Glover to Cher who is going to retire was great. And we're excited about Jamal Hill after that. But it's not, it's, you can't confidently come out of that fight and be like, that's the best light, heavyweight in the planet right now. You just can't feel that way. Now, that's why we all said, like the next title of defense is the

one next fight is the most important fight you go in there you beat Yuri you beat Alex you're the dude you're the number one guy with the bullet but like let's just look at our rankings right now let's just let's just pull them up and again I like Jamal Hill I'm not trying to start shit let's pull up let's pull up our rankings and see where we have Jamal Hill raking shake up boom there we go let's pull this up to do too late heavyweight Pereira 1 Hashka 2, Vadim Nemcoff 3, Ancalaia 4, Jamal Hill 5. I think that's pretty fair right there.

I think those are pretty fair rankings. Who would you favor Jamal Hill versus Alex Pereira? I would favor Alex Pereira right now. Who would you favor Jamal Hill versus Yuri Perashka? I'd favor Yuri Perashka right now. And I'm only saying this just from like what I think the betting lines would look like and stylistically. Vadim Nemcoff, I honestly would be very confident picking Vindem Knav against Jamal Hill. I would very confidently pick up Magamette Ancolaev against Jamal Hill as well.

No disrespect to Jamal. I think, honestly, Nemcoff and Anka Laif are probably the two best 205ers on the planet right now. They're not superstars. They're not going to get huge opportunities. But skill for skills, style for style, those are probably one in. to. Like, Ankleyev is probably the best light heavyweight on the planet. He's just not fun. And that's going to just delay things. And then we are eventually going to live in a world, these gentlemen, where Magam and Anka Laif is the light heavyweight champion. And it ain't going to be

the most fun world to live in. But we are going to live in that world and probably going to live in it for quite some time once he actually gets there. But yeah, I think Jamal at five right now is, is a pretty fair place to have him. But I remember we first boasted that after Alex Pereira beat Yombovich, and he, of course, he had comments about it. He was all pissed off about it. But it's just like, take again to it. Like, he knocked out Oven St. Peru,

which everybody knocks out of Oven St. Peru these days, lost to Paul Craig. That fight was not arguing all that competitive. Jimmy Crude, he knocked him out, knocked out Johnny Walker, beat up Tiago. Knocked out Tiago Santos, but he was losing that fight before that happened. And then he beat Glover and a great performance. So like the best win he has on the resume, and that includes Glover, is probably Johnny Walker.

Johnny Walker is probably his best win. And right now Johnny Walker is ranked number eight. I think five is more than fair for Jamal Hill. I think it's more than fair. And I think he would be more likable to a lot of people if he's just like, yeah, I get it, man. I get it. I got to win another fight. But he's that close.

He's literally a win away from being number one. And then he went out and got hurt. And that happens. It's tough. Timing is terrible. The timing is terrible because he would have been in that fight with Pereira probably or Pajasca. I don't know. We'll see how next year's going to be very interesting for Jamal Hill.

We'll see. Amelia, real quick, and then we got to go. Hi, Mike. So I got a question regarding Leon Edwards' latest statements. I know this is not exactly related. Yeah, here we go. Golly. Can you imagine the balls on this guy to call for a champ champ status going up to middleweight,

when so far he's only defending his belt against Camaro once and he goes on to say that there are no exciting there are no interesting matches for him in the Walterweight division that there's nobody there I mean I can't remember like word for word exactly what he said but it was just one of those what it's like do you die a hero or do you live long enough to see yourself become the villain I mean it's just I can't believe it just I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. Holy Christ. I'm out of here. Mike, have a good one. So this is a safe space.

I like to be honest with all of you guys. I like to tell the truth and give you my honest opinions on things. Let me tell you what my two emotional reactions were to this. The first thing was immediately, oh, cut the shit. Like cut the shit. We're finally in a position where we can, at least for the most part, feel like, like we have some divisional sanity. Like Volcanovsky is about to go fight featherweights and Islam's about to go fight lightweights and that those are like really the only times, like the only divisions where we even have this conversation right now.

Like everybody feels like they can go up and down and all that stuff. But like prayer is not going back to 185. It's not going up to heavyweight. Like we're going to just fight dudes in our own division. And then he calls out Izzy and I'm just like, I kind of get it. I don't love it, but I get it because. there's nobody else that's like a fun fight for him outside of Jamal Hill and Jamal Hill is not fighting anybody right now.

So I get it. Maybe you set yourself up for a big day, payday at UFC 300. Totally cool. This I was like, cut the shit. This is terrible. But then I have to say, and I feel bad for saying this into a live microphone right now. I kind of laughed a little bit because I'm just like, man, Belal Mohammed's like never getting a title shot. Or like, maybe this is the best thing for Bilal

is that Leon leaves the division and they have to do like an interim belt or like a vacant title situation. And then like Bilal has to be in there, right? So I kind of was just like, man, Balal cannot catch a freaking break. Because Leon winning at 296 is like, Leon winning and then calling Bilal out

is like his best, is like Bilal's best chance of getting a title shot. Or if, like, something happened with Colby and he gets dinged up and, like, they have to bring somebody in short notice. Like, Ballal's got to get the call and he'll say yes. But then, like, other than that, she's just like, man, like, I don't know what Ballal's going to have to do to get a title shot or fight anybody that's, like, really interesting. Because even if you do, like, a vacant title fight or an interim title fight at 170, like, who's Palau going to fight? Like, who is he going to fight Shafkod for the interim title if he beats Wonderboy? Like, what is going to happen here?

And this whole notion that like, there's no challenge for me at 170 is just not true and it's insane. It's insane to say that. But I don't know what to think. I don't know what to think about any of this. But my first thought was just like, please no. And then my second thought was like, man, like, what did Blahma do to the U.S. why is he just never going to get a title shot like a straight up title shot he's going to have to get like we can be living in a world where bala mahomet's first ufc title fights for an interim

belt for literally no reason because it's you go up for a second belt if you've cleaned out your division or at least have come close or you're like the number one ranked dude in the world and leon is none of those things and he hasn't cleaned out anything so he's got guys coming too. Like he's got Ian Gary on the way. He's got Schofcott. He's got Wonderboy if he beat Schofcott. Like there's a lot of interesting fights for him. And then at 185, there's like too many contenders right now. There's Hamzat. There's Izzy whenever he's ready to come back. We have guys like Icromalaskaroff on the way out. Paul Kosta is still around. Like middleweight is, middleweight's actually like really fun right now.

It's a really fun division with a lot of options. Welterweight, I don't know. It's just weird. Like, I want this Leon Colby fight to happen so badly. I need this fight to happen because this division has literally done nothing this year. It's done nothing. We have had very few, like, big fights. We've had, I feel like we've had no movement at all in this division.

and it's incredibly frustrating but like look at poor ball just goes in there and saves the day gets a co-main event with Gilbert Burns and nobody cared then and fewer people care now that he

won that fight it's wild yeah I don't know all right I gotta go a lot coming up we're gonna record our ranking show later on today and then we'll just

have our normal stuff. MAR tomorrow, a little BTL on Thursday, get you ready for UFC Vegas 82 throughout the week as well, and then we're going to get like a rare week off from the UFC because it's Thanksgiving, but the PFL is like,

hey, we're not going to take a weekend off. We're going to give you a pay-per-view on Thanksgiving week because that's how they roll. And then fun little stretch. We get UFC Austin. That card is incredible.

On December 2nd, they're Shanghai, and then cap off the year with 296. So this should be a fun little stretch for the world of combat sports, for the world of MMA, and for all of us. So thank you all very much. You are all the best. We'll be back here on Thursday.

Around 10 a.m. Eastern, we'll do it again. But until then, everybody, have a great rest of your Tuesday. And have a heck of a morning, everybody.