MMA Fighting - HOAM | Would Potential Colby Covington vs. Islam Makhachev Fight Be More Intriguing At 155 or 170?

Episode Date: October 5, 2023

It appears as if lightweight champion Islam Makhachev and upcoming welterweight title challenger Colby Covington are planting seeds for a future fight should both be successful in their next bouts. If it happens, would it be more intriguing to see Makhachev move up to welterweight, or Covington move down to lightweight? On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck discusses the back-and-forth between Makhachev and Covington, what weight class would be more interesting to host it, and how it might go. Additionally, listener questions include fighter pay, contracts in ONE Championship, the star power of Sean O'Malley, if Dustin Poirier could find his way into a welterweight title shot if Covington defeats Leon Edwards at UFC 296, Alexander Volkanovski's future at featherweight, the loaded UFC bantamweight division, where Michael Page could end up in free agency, and more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Fighting Podcasting Network. Hello again, everybody. I am Mike Heck. Hope everyone's having a wonderful week. Hope everyone's enjoying the start of October. It is fall, depending on where you are. The weather is cooling down a little bit. The leaves are changing.

changing colors. Halloween is upon us, which is crazy because I've gone to some stores over the last couple of days and I'm seeing Christmas stuff all over the place. We haven't even gotten to freaking Halloween yet. So I don't know why that happens, but that's where we're at. But we're not here to talk about that. We're here to talk about the wonderful world of mixed martial Arts. We got two events coming up this weekend, both on Saturday. We get the UFC and Bellator going head to head. We have UFC Vegas 80, which will get things rolling. 4 p.m. Eastern prelims, 7 p.m. main card. The main event, of course, Grant Austin versus Bobby Green. We got Joe Pfeiffer, Abdul Razakal Hassan, Alex Marono versus Joaquin Buckley.

Drew Dover, Ricky Glenn, Bill Algeo, Alexander Hernandez. That is the main card. That's not bad. We've had way worse main cards than that this year. Philippe Lins versus the dapper. Iwan Kuchelaba. Did you see Iwan Kuchelaba in Media Day? Shaved face.

He was wearing a suit. Dude looked like a couple of Billy. Not really used to seeing that from him. Looks stylish. Caroline Nicole Vukovic, Diana Belbita. Nate Mainus, Viteus Mandanka, Canaco Marata versus Vanessa Demopoulos, Johnny Munoz versus Orichie Lang and Montana Delrosa versus JJ Alder. You talked about this on Tuesday.

A big gut punch losing the second most compelling fight on the card, maybe even the most compelling. From a competitive standpoint, Chris Gutierrez versus Montel Jackson, no longer happening. Man, that sucks. But hopefully Montel Jackson can. and get back in there sooner rather than later. And then Bellator's got a pretty big card.

Took a bit of a hit as well. We lost one of the four title fights that were scheduled. We lost Ryan Bader versus Linton Vassell. We still get three big title fights. We got Usen Ramagamata v. Brent Premis. Chris Cyborg returns against Katzen Gano for the featherweight title. That fights finally happening. Liz Karmouche versus Lima-M-M-Farlane for the women's flyway title.

There are some pretty interesting fights on this card. We got the scheduled debut for Bellator of Slim Trebelci against Davion Franklin. We got Henry Corrales, Kai Kamaka. It's a damn good fight. Grant Neal is going down to 185 to fight Romero Cotton. That's a fun fight. Bellator putting together a pretty good card. Our own E. Casey Leiden is in San Diego for coverage of that event.

So, yeah, it should be good. A lot going on. We confirmed yesterday. It was asked on this program about are we going to get Mavzar of Loya versus Arnold Allen? There were some rumors going out. There were some a tweet that went out that the fight was happening. Date TBD. It apparently is going to happen January 20th.

UFC 297 in Toronto. That is the targeted location. That is the targeted date. The fight is probably going down on that card. Both sides have confirmed that this is what is the plan. So that fight's happening. That's a good one. That's a good one for January 20th.

I know our own Guillermo Cruz broke a fight yesterday for January. Norma Dumont versus Janice Santos. I believe that's January 13th. I believe that will be the first card of 2024. It'll be at 135, so Norman Dumont going down to Bannonweight. So things are coming together. Still no main event official for UFC 297. It appears that we're looking at possibly Volcanowski v. Tuporia for that card.

We talked about that on the program last week. That's what is being eyed to potentially headline that card. It's not a done deal just yet. from what I understand, but other reports have said that that will likely be the main event. And as we talked about last week, if there's a good chance, that is the case. So we'll see how that plays out. But let's go to you guys and gals and see what is on your mind. By the way, BTL 1230 today, our monthly Q&A episode.

So stay tuned for that. Jed and I, I believe Casey will join us from San Diego as well. and we'll just answer your questions for about an hour or so, and we'll just banter back and forth to get you ready for the weekend ahead and all the things going on. So Thomas, go ahead and kick off the question-asking festivities. Sorry, is that me now, yeah? Yeah, I got you.

Perfect. So my question is, what's your sleeper fight of the weekend? There's some really good fights, and obviously Bellator. I'm looking forward to me and Carter UFC. But there's a good boxing fight as well, Worthington, and Lee Wood, what do you think of that? That's a real good fight.

That's a real good fight. That'll be super fun. I don't know if I'll be able to catch it, but I'll certainly be paying attention of what's going on. Sleeper fight of the way. That might be the actual answer. But if we're talking MMA,

if we're talking UFC Bellator, I mean, Linz Coochalab is going to be crazy. Manus Mandanka is going to be fun. I'm going to go, I mean, it's kind of, this seems pretty easy. It's the first one that popped into my head. It's on the Bellator card. Henry Corrales, Kai Kamaka has got to be the correct answer.

Those two dudes are just going to chuck them. And it's going to be a lot of fun. So that's probably the sleeper fight of the weekend. Slim Trebalsy is probably the sleeper story of the weekend. Until he actually walks to the cage, I don't know if he's actually fighting, because of everything going on with that whole situation. But it's, I mean, we're two days away, and it seems like all systems go.

I'm curious to see what the aftermath of that is going to be. But, I mean, it's pretty public knowledge at this point. So, yeah, I mean, look, there's 16 fights on the Bellator card. I'm sure there's going to be a couple of out of nowhere crazy ones. But, I mean, safe bet Corales Kamaka is going to be super fun. Let's go to CV. What's up, CB? Good morning.

Just a quick question for me. I'm pretty sure you got asked this in previous shows. But yeah, I want to talk about Michael Chandler. Like, worst case scenario, the Connor fight falls through? Like, who should he fight? Like, yeah, that's pretty much it for me. Thanks. I mean, I don't think that fight's going to fall through.

There's a lot of people who have been very pessimistic about that fight. I've actually been one of the ones. who has been more optimistic that that fight happens. Connor posted yesterday that he started, he submitted everything to Jeff Novitsky and he's on track to return to the USADA pool. So if that is the case, if that is true, then that's a very good sign.

Then that is a very good sign. It's the first time he's actually said, like, I'm making a move towards getting back into it. a lot of times he's just kind of shrugged it off and kind of given no answer answers, but it seems like he's getting back into it. And the timing, it could not be more perfect if we're being honest, because if it's October, and if Belitt, not Belich, Jesus Christ, if UFC 300 is going to take place in April, six months leads us right into April.

Michael Chandler was on the MA hour yesterday, and he said if he had to guess that they're going to hold off on that one until UFC 300. So I do think that fight's going to happen. I've been on board saying that fight's going to happen from the get-go. It's just a matter of when.

Now, if we get to like February or March and that fight is not announced, then I'm going to start to get a little more worried and maybe the optimism drops a little bit. Once we get to that certain level, once we get to that point, then I'm going to be like, uh, maybe it's not going to.

happen. If it doesn't happen, I don't know, man. It's pretty tough. He's going to have to fight one of these up-and-comers. I mean, who knows? Maybe like Holloway moves up to 155 and fights him. Like, who's going to complain about that? There's Gamrod. There's Sarukian, depending on what he's going to do. Is he going to fight Darius? Who the hell knows? I don't know. It's got to be one of these up-and-comers, that's for sure. So I think I think the fight ends up happening, but I don't know. It's a ways away.

We have things have to play out and we'll see, but I feel good. I'm putting that positive juju out into the universe. Panda, go ahead. Oh, for Christ's sake, Panda. Panda. Panda. And, uh, no. Get back on the horn with cricket, bro.

Coke. Go ahead. Morning him. So, I don't know if you've talked about the leaked one contract yet. Have you? I have not. You have not. Okay, cool. So I want to, okay, so let me just say my little piece, and then you can go on your merry way and talk about this to the people. So this is what exploitation looks like. This is this deal with

them how they can hold on to champions and not even allow them to wear the belts on their own accord. They have to get written consent from your 1 FC so they can this is obviously

just a this is so strange. This part of the contract, it kind of confused me but I guess it's because they don't want people to go around saying, hey, I'm the one-fc champion all over the place, because then one-fc can say,

okay, you can only say that when we say that you do it, so they can kind of control the narrative or something. And then, you know, obviously, how long they can keep fighters under contract even after the normal period of the contract and stuff. A whole lot of revelations in that league contract that are textbook exploitation. But if you could kind of talk more about the contract,

maybe if you've come up with some of your own opinions of it, I would like to hear it. Thank you. Look, I mean, we've talked about contracts on this show a million times. And it all comes back to the same thing, man. Like, nothing's going to change. Nothing is going to change until these athletes. athletes all come together and demand change.

They basically how it is all set up, depending on who you are and what promotion you fight for, it's basically you have to deal with this bullshit or you just, like you don't fight. Like you don't sign with the big organization because that's where it is right now. And no one is stepping up and trying to make actual change. Now, there are some people, some former fighters,

we got the lost, the anti-trust lawsuit and all that. we got other fight we're trying to get the ali act passed and there are people who are trying to come together but it's a very tiny percentage of people who are coming together to try to invoke change and it's not happening and we continuously talk about these contracts we continuously talk about fighter pay and we all want them to make more money hell we all want to make more money doing what we do we all feel like we're worth more we all want to make more money it's just the nature of the beast unfortunately, unless you come together and say, we ain't doing shit until you change this,

nothing is going to change. So I just want to put that out there. I did see these. I saw the Sardor contract. He's making $1,500 and $1,500 for the one Friday fights card, which, I mean, obviously it's very low, especially for an organization like that. The one that continuously gets a lot of attention

is the Adriana Marius contract. And pulling it up now, he earned 100,000 for the Demetrius Johnson fight from their first fight in April of 2021. 100,000 for the boat, including a $50,000 win bonus. It is low for a chip to both full contract. contract and avail some the most stricted terminology. Let's see. One retains the rights to the athlete's

image after death for the purpose of selling goods and services. One can use the athlete's image forever and the athlete can't stop them or let anyone else stop them. One has complete ownership and control over everything created with the athlete's involvement. One isn't obligated to pay an athlete if their non-main event boat is canceled, suspended or postponed. A fight is delayed for any reason. One can choose to extend the contract period by the same number of days between the original reschedule boat at its own discretion. If the athlete becomes a one champion, their contract is automatically extended by four fights or 24 months the moment their current contract expires, one retains the right to accept or decline a fighter's offer from a rival promotion up to a year

after they have left one. Any boat that is postponed for any reason is caused for one to extend the athlete's contract. Athletes are not allowed to speak publicly about their contract. without permission from one. One has the right to use the athlete's name to making control websites. Athletes shall not change their name without the consent of one. It's insane.

There's a whole shitload of these. Champions have to return their belt anytime one demands and cannot appear publicly with them without one's consent, as Toc just brought up. Athletes must not disparage the promotion or any third parties associated with one

even after leaving the promotion, athletes cannot be involved in any advertising of promotional materials that contain false, offensive, illegal, or infringing content or any content that infringes upon the intellectual property rights of third parties. There's like six more of these. One can extend or suspend an athlete's contract

if they're unable to participate due to injury. One can suspend an athlete's contract for the duration of their retirement. They can terminate a contract for the athlete becomes bankrupt or subject to an administrative order. At the end of an athlete's contract, They enter an exclusivity period of 60 days where they can only negotiate with one and can't escape to rival promotions immediately. After that period, athletes enter a one-year matching period.

The contract is governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of Singapore. Any disputes related to the contract will be settled in arbitration in Singapore. And then there's more. Economy tickets for themselves in one corner, man. Athletes see one twin sharing room as their accommodation. They receive $40 per day per person for Fight Week. meals or three meals a day provided by the organizer. Guaranteed $250k for title defenses.

One is obliged to offer two bouts per 12-month period. Fighter benefits are on a fighter basis. Verizon was going into a championship bout. So that doesn't bode, yeah. I mean, look, again, you're at the mercy of these promoters until you change it. So I've always been on the side. Like, look, I love for these.

promotions to do the right thing and change the language and pay more and all of these fun things. I would love that. And I think we all would too. Unfortunately, it's just not going to happen. It's not going to happen by itself. These are businesses that try to make money. The UFC is killing it. And no one's complaining really. Like no one's really complaining about it outside of the fans and the people. So like I've said a million times, especially when it comes to the UFC. and I know one tries to compare themselves to the UFC and it's just absolutely ridiculous because it's dumb and it makes no sense because they're two completely different things,

especially this year, where one is actually getting over as a almost a different thing than what the UFC is. I know as far as the Adriana Mariah's thing, his manager, Alex Davis, came out on Twitter and disputed some of that. Let me pull it up real quick just so I can give you comment. context. There it is.

In regards and to clarify the mention of my name on the Bloody Elbow podcast, I make it a stern rule to never discuss financial and contractual issues about my fighters. In this specific case, financials that are stated by Bloody Elbow about Adriano's contract one are erroneous and incorrect. Adriano made significantly higher pay than was reported by bloody elbow. One has always treated my athletes well. And we've talked about this too. Sometimes, like we talk about it with, um, when the UFC goes to a city or a town that discloses pay publicly, some of them are like, we look at these things or like some of these are absolutely ridiculous because they don't include like any kind of background bonuses. They don't include,

you know, any other types of things. It's just like your contractual pay. And we know for a fact that this isn't actually the right number on a lot of cases. Like I know Josh Thompson's talked about this a lot. Him obviously being a former fighter and whatnot has talked about this. So do I kind of believe Alex Davis what he says that isn't what he got paid? Sure. Sure. I get that.

I mean, there's bonuses in discretionary pay and there's all these other things that aren't disclosed in some of those things, whether it's in the contract or even with the commissions disclosed pay. Sometimes there's backroom deals and things of that nature. So I do believe him what he says that. But yeah, some of the language in that contract is crazy. But again, the fighters are agreeing to this. The managers who are well aware of what the contract say are saying, yeah, go ahead and sign this document.

So they know what's going on. And as bad as the language is, they're agreeing to do it. So, but some of it's kind of ridiculous. Like we own your likeness until you die. That's pretty extreme. The belt thing's kind of weird. I don't love that. The negotiation periods and matching rights, like, that's pretty standard.

It's a little longer, honestly. Like, they can only negotiate with one for six months and then they have a matching period for another year. So that seems like a lot. That's like 18 months you could be waiting for something to come along. So, but nothing's going to change

until these athletes with the assistance of managers come together and say, we've had enough. We want change. We want to change this shit. And until that happens, we're just going to keep having these conversations.

And it stinks. A kudos to bloody elbow for putting this stuff up and continuing to, cover this stuff. And it sucks. But again, until these athletes, these

competitors come together and say, fuck this, we're done. We ain't doing another thing until we get this, this, and this. It's never going to change. And getting thousands of athletes who compete in high level organizations

to all agree to just say, I'm not going to do anything. I'm not going to fight at all. I'm going to sit aside for as long as it takes, almost impossible. Almost impossible. Look what the UFC's doing with the Contender Series. They gave away five more contracts. Another losing fighter got a contract on Tuesday.

Why? Why? Because he was tough because he took an ass-whip, like that's why, I forget his day, that's why one of the guys got a contract. Dana said he's so tough. So, we know what this is. Like, we know what the Contender Series is.

It's lost a lot of its luster. Yes, we get some good fights. Yes, we get some craziness. Yes, we've had some memorable episodes. But we know what this is. This is to get people in the door making 10 and 10. And they're cool with it. Because what the UFC does and what some of these other organizations will say that they're trying to do

is they're treating this like the WWF did in the 1980s. Because even back then, there was talks about, unionizing because the wrestlers didn't feel like they were making money. Jesse Ventura was going to try to unionize everything. And as Jesse says, Hulk Hogan went and stooge to Vince McMahon and Jesse got

essentially fired and then he sued the company and got a bunch of money and still gets checks from WWF memory surgery correctly. But that's how it was. Like only they were making, wrestlers coming into WWF got a bigger platform, but they were making pretty low-level money. And how it was explained was,

we're not going to give you big money, but we're going to give you the opportunity to make money. We're going to give you the chance to get over. And if you get over, then you can make money. And that's where this sport is right now. That's where the UFC is. That's where some of these other organizations are. You get entry-level pay.

If you can get yourself over and get popular and become a star, then you can make this much more money. They offer the opportunity to do that. We have to remember, folks, MMA is, especially with the UFC has only been around 30 years. Seems like a long time, but it's not compared to the NBA and the NHL and Major League Baseball and the NFL. These leagues, these entities have been around way longer than the UFC. So these organizations, they're like two decades behind, really. So, I mean, I'm not expecting anything to change.

Joe Lozahn's been saying this shit forever. He gets kind of browbeaten for it. But he's not wrong. Getting all these fighters to come together and say, you know what? You want to make this ESPN money? You want to do 50 cards a year? Better find somebody else to fight because we're not doing it until you give us this, this and this.

It's never going to happen. The anti-trust lawsuit could make some change because we're going to see some shit that we haven't seen before. But yeah, man, it's just another story and it all comes back to the same thing, which is unfortunate. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Roscoe Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix College. have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

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The Home Depot. Smart homes start here. Panda, go ahead. My man, Mike. All right, one for two isn't as bad as one for six. I'll be short and sweet today. I actually want to start something new. You are not on. No vets barred. You were just kind of filling in that one week.

Is there a play on this UFC card that you do like? I will blindly throw a unit on it if so every week moving forward. You're going to tell me? Oh, God. That's a, sorry, Panda. I mean, probably not the best idea. I mean, I've only bet on two cards and I didn't do great in either. Let me see.

Like, 293, I was off to like a really good start. And then things kind of fell apart for. me. Obviously, Izzy getting trucked by Sean Strickland didn't help. Taito Ivasa getting trucked didn't help because I saw value plays there.

To me, let me take a gander. Some breaking news. I will actually be on No Betts Bar next week with Jed. So I'm very excited about that. I got the tag. So I'm going to be on No Betts Bar with Jed next week.

So let's pull up the lines. There's one without even looking that I think I like already. Not totally confident. This is kind of a squash-matchy card in a lot of respects, but there are a couple of underdogs that I like here. I think Alex Marono is a live dog. Bucky Buckley is a freak athlete and he's good. Alex Marono is just a wily veteran, man.

He just somehow finds a way to win these fights. He's a plus 142 underdog right now. I think there's certainly value with Alex Morono there. He's certainly fought the better competition than Joaquin Buckley has fought. I think this is closer to a 50-50 fight that the odds indicate. I know Buckley is a dynamic guy, but Marano is just super smart, man. He's just a super smart fighter. Let me see if there's like any props that would be nice.

Marlon by Decisions plus 300. That's not a bad one. The prop that kind of like jumps out to me a little bit is Marono by submission. Like Marono is a really good jihitsu player. Like he's nasty on the ground. You just don't really get to see it that much because he's always on the feet. But he's good, man. He's real good down there.

He's super smart when it comes to that. So I think I think there's value with Marono. I think there's value with Felipe Linz at plus 124. I mean, there's one fight where it's like we talked about. the Mac Jones of M.M.A. And maybe Alexander Hernandez is the Mac Jones of MMA. I think that's what we ultimately landed on. A play that I think, like, I would make if I was actually betting on this card is I would

actually bet Alexander Hernandez at plus 110. And then if Hernandez, like, this is what Alex Hernandez does. Hernandez is probably going to have a really good first round against Bill Algeo, because he has a really good first round against everybody. But if he doesn't get Bill Algeo out of there, I firmly believe Bill Algeo is going to beat him. So this could be like the Makwana Mirkani play where you take the dog shot on them and you hope for a first round finish

but if it gets out of round one and you can get Bill Algeo plus money in the live odds I think there's value there. So yeah I mean look this is a squashy kind of a car there's a lot of like massive favorites. Nate Mainis isn't a bad play at plus 205 yeah I kind of like Marona on the spot.

I think the betting odds are a little wide. I think they should be a little bit closer. So, yeah, that's where I'm looking. But tell me at your own risk. I will say that. Why VMZ? Go ahead. Hey, Mike, heck of morning. Two quick questions for you.

What did you think of Kobe's comments on Islam going up to Walterweight to fight him if he gets the welterweight strap at the end of the year? wanted to get your thoughts on that and I wanted to see if you thought that the winner of Magelma, Anclyev and Johnny Walker, do you think they

would be the next ones to have a crack at the title for whoever wins between Yuri and Alex? Thanks so much. I didn't hear Colby's comments about Islam. I know Islam said he wanted to go to 170. I have, let me just tell you,

I have zero interest in that. I have zero interest on that. None. This would only be a second title defense. There are plenty of guys that are ready to go. Justin Gachie deserves to get his shot. And there are a lot of hungry guys who want their opportunities, not just at the belt, but just at top five opponents.

And if your champion continuously is moving up or wants to move up, that hurts things. And I will say this. I have more interest, and I know welterweight is kind of a mess too. I have more interest in Colby going down than I do as I'm going up. For sure. Now, could we do interim titles at lightweight? Sure. Could we do them at welterweight?

Absolutely. We could definitely do that. But I don't, especially at lightweight, I do not want to see the lightweight champion after two title defenses potentially. and he's still going to be Charles Oliver to get there. I have no interest in seeing him go up to 170 when there's guys there. When there's guys there. Stay at your own weight class and defend your belt.

That's what I want to see. Colby's a different example because we don't know. Colby's just such a wild card. He's such a wild card. I don't think he's going to fight Bilal. Maybe he'd fight Usman if they do the Usman-Belal fight just to try to get one back.

Although you can make a case that Ousman probably doesn't deserve it. Let's get some new blood in there. I don't think Colby's going to fight Shafcott. Maybe he fights wonderful. I don't know. I don't know. Colby looks at the sport way differently. Looks at the sport way differently. He's more of a prize fighter. But I didn't hear the actual comments, but I don't really want to see his own go to 170. I'd rather see, I'd be way more interested in seeing what Colby looked like at 155.

And even, I don't even want to really see that. stay in your division, defend against the guys in your division, try to get a run together. Like, that's what I want to see. But if I have the choice, if it's just like these two dudes, if Dana comes out after 296, if Makachep beats Olivera and Colby beats Leon, and Dana says, yeah, the next fight's going to be Colby versus Islam,

and I have the choice of what weight class it happens. I'm way more intrigued to see Colby at 155. I want to see if he can make it. I think he can. He's not a big welterweight. He doesn't really have to cut a ton to get there. But seeing Colby try to get down on 155 is way more interesting to see if Islam can go up.

But if it's up to me, I don't want to see that fight. Not yet. Dylan, what's up, man? Hey, I had a question regarding Volt. If Volk winds up beating Titoria and, you know, Charlie Olives winds up pulling it off against Islam. What does that leave left for Volk? You know, considering, you know, he's kind of already cleared out that whole division,

would you, you know, run it back with Max possibly? You know, because I feel like they do the trilogy between Charlie Olives and Islam over the Volk fight. So I was just wondering your thoughts on that. Thanks. Thanks, man. Oh, to answer the other question, about 205, it's Jamal Hill. Jamal Hill. Jamal Hill is going to get the next shot.

And then maybe Walker and Ankelyev, perhaps. But like a grindy decision is not going to do it. Like, I think Ankylav's going to win that fight. I think he makes it look somewhat easy, but it doesn't matter. It's got to be exciting. He's got to look exciting. He's going to go out there and finish Johnny Walker. If he goes out there and finishes Johnny Walker,

then yeah he's his next fight will probably be for the belt but jamal hill's got next and just a matter of timing at that point jama'll can come back somehow first half of 2024 and we can get perera or eerie back in there then you go right to you go right to jama'll you go right to jama'll and then ankle a maybe gets one more but i think at that point if he goes out and finishes john he doesn't need to do anything else Um, for Volk, the thing is he hasn't, I mean, he's beaten guys. He's beaten Max three times. He's beaten Zombie. He's beaten Ortega.

He's beaten Yayaeer. We do have a big fight coming up between Arnold Allen and Mobsar Vloev. I would be real interested to see either of those guys fight Volkanowski. We got Bryce Mitchell. We got Giga, although I don't think Giga is going to get to a title. fight. Bryce could. And then we just have a whole bunch of guys who are real close to getting

over the hump into the top 15. There's a lot of guys here. So, I don't think Volk's cleared out the division at all. I think he's got some good wins. Obviously, Holloway, the names I mentioned, but there's other guys. Arnold Allen's right there. If I don't know,

it goes out there beats Vloia. If that's a big win. Loya beats Allen. That's a big win for him. That's another guy that he could fight. so but if Volk if Volk comes out of there like it Bull

Volk goes out there and beats Toporio which that's that fight I really want to see I'm really looking forward to that fight if and when it happens possibly in January

I'm really interested in that one and if Volk wants to if Volk feels like I'm going for two division status like I don't want to hear I don't want to hear that. He had his chance to be a two-division champion. A lot of people still feel he beat Isla Makachchev.

I am not one of those people. I thought his El-Machchev won that fight. Just vacate the featherweight title and then just say, I'm a lightweight now. I'm going to go up to lightweight and win that belt. Cool. The bigger fights are there lightweight anyways. But if you're going to be the guy that's like, well, I'm going to try to be a simultaneous two-division champion, like you got to still defend against the guys who are up.

up Arnold Allen or of Loy of would probably be next if he beats Deporia there's guys for him to fight and then look at where we're at like a year, 18

months, two years from now we got guys like Joanna some Brito and Jonathan Pierce and Lorone Murphy who are on nice win streaks right now and other guys on the come up as well. Jack Shore 145

other guys they're very very very solidly behind Nate Landware. I know he just lost to Dan Ege, but they're very solidly behind him. So there are guys left for him to fight, but if he wants to fight for the lightweight title, like, then just go fight for the lightweight title. But I think his legacy would be cemented even more so if he fought Toporia, fought one or two more guys as the champion at 145, then go up to 55. Like, that's what I want to see from both of these guys. Like, I definitely want to see Mokachev Volkovsky, too.

I want to see that fight, but it's a fight I want to see maybe at the end of the year. End of next year, I mean. Or in 2025. Two, three more wins for each of those guys. Then we do it again. No problem with that. But this whole rush to like fight for second belts, we don't need it. Like I understand why they made Volkadovsky.

Machachev just made sense. The timing was perfect for it. It worked. Right now, the timing isn't. Great to rent it back or for anything else. So I don't think Holloway is going to get another shot at Volk. So we'll see. Long way around that one.

But yes, I got there. I'm Nilai Patel, editor-in-chief The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas and other problems. We've talked a lot about generative AI on the show lately, which is a very big idea that is causing quite a few problems. And one thing we keep hearing about over and over again is that generative AI is causing a lot of problems in schools. There are a lot of people out there, including many of the listeners of the show who email us,

who are worried about the obvious problem, students using chat GPT to cheat on assignments. But when our team went and poked at the story, they found that the issues in education with AI go a lot deeper, to the very philosophy of education itself. If this technology becomes more ubiquitous, we'll have courses created by AI, graded by AI, with submissions from students, absolutely generated by AI. So it begs the question, what are we even doing here in how you're at? This episode is presented by Salesforce. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes.

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The morning will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. play responsibly concerned by your gambling or that if someone close. You call 18665331-2-6-0 or visit comexonterio.ca. Abzwalia, go ahead. So, Mike. So I have just two questions I want to ask today. One is about Kobe Carvington and the Islam fight.

I'll start with that first. So obviously, assuming Islam beats Charles Olivera and he defends his title successfully against Justin Gage. Kobe Compton beats Leon in December. The Stars are lined. maybe they fought it sometime next year in May or April. Obviously, I will ask you, how do you see that far going? Do you think Islam's fight IQ and unique understanding of Sandoval

and judicial neutralization can prevent some McCormtons very on-pressure type of wrestling? And how do you see both doing the striking department? And just to follow a little bit on that scenario, like let's say, okay, maybe Islam does not end up winning against. Charles and if Colby Coverton wins the title do you think Dustin Porre could be a possible title defense he might actually sorry

let's say Leon this week Colby instead right and Leo Colby obviously is still in the top too could you see Dustin Porry and Colby Coventon fighting and maybe if Dustin was to win against Colby he could fight for the title at Walterway and also

just another thing I want to talk about was the Bannon Way like I think there's just more of a statement. I think like Banton Wade is a very good example of how MMA and Matt does not work because if you look I've noticed a lot of to find that division

they're all kind of clustered up with some wins and losses like Corey San Hanigan, he's had a lot of wins against Marla Vera you know Song Yodong and you know like Rofon but he's lost to

Piori Yan then Piore Yan he's lost some of the greatest guys but I could see him possibly being like a Song Yadong or, you know, Rob Fon or Malibara. But then I was also thinking if Sean O'Malley fights Malovera, there's a good chance we can see a repeat of what Pantorja and Brandon Marina just happened recently because Maloara's style combats some of Sean Amali's weaknesses very well.

But then it's like you kind of look at it. It's a very interesting case. Then, you know, you have like Mirab. I will definitely love to see him fight Henry Suhuda because both are high-level pressure restless and they have a very unique striking capability. So, you know, just a little bit of statement from there, not much of a question, but I do want to know if you agree with my thoughts on that. Have a good day, man. Yeah, I touched on the Islam Colby thing already.

Like, I don't know. If they fought, I don't know. It's tough. It's tough. It's one of those things where, like, Islam would have to get him out of there pretty quickly. Because the longer that fight goes, the more that favors Colby. There's no doubt about it. There's no doubt about it.

Colby's gas tank is way better than Machachev's. It just is. He's been there. He's gone the distance. He doesn't get tired. Machachev is still very dangerous even when he's tired, but he's certainly slowed down against Volcanovsky. And that would be a big problem against Colby.

But Machchoff's a beast, man. It would be an interesting fight. Like, I would watch it. I just don't want to see it right now. Like if Machachev wins and then Colby wins the Welterweight title, like why are we making this fight now? Colby without a title defense, Mockachev would just two,

one against the featherweight champion, still one of the best in the world, pound for pound. There's just too much going on right now for Mockachev and lightweight. There's so many fresh matchups for him. So many fresh matchups. Now the other question,

could Colby fight Dustin for the Welterweight title? Yes. Yes, because it's a different... Colby does things very differently. He is a prize fighter. He picks his spots. That's what prize fighting is. You pick the biggest aims at the best times.

He did it with Mazadol. He did it with Woodley. Did it with Robbie Lawler to some extent. I think that fight was kind of cobbled together, but definitely did it with Woodley, did it with Mazadol. He would do it with Dustin. if he sees a decline with Dustin, Dustin's a big enough star

where the UFC would entertain that idea. That could very possibly happen because I don't think Colby's going to be jumping or chomping at the bit to fight Balal Mohammed or a Shafkat or anybody of that nature. I just don't think so. Not because he's scared. He just wants to make the bag.

He wants to make as much money as possible. He wants to fight in the biggest fights he can. so that could happen i could see a world where that happens it'd be super weird and we would complain about it but it's a possibility in today's ufc for sure there's a rivalry there ufc loves to tap into that stuff uh badamway it's just a crazy division man it's super deep and on any given night any of these guys can beat any of these guys it can't it can just happen like look at maraub de ballast really go back to the maro maria's fight remember when he when maraeris was on that like bad losing streak and he fought marab and everyone's like oh man marab's just gonna kill this dude and then marius is like this close to finishing him this close to getting him out there and then marab had the miraculous comeback like any of these guys on any given night could beat any of these other guys it can happen so yeah i mean math doesn't really make sense at 135 because on any given night, anybody in the top 15

can beat anybody in the division. It's crazy. That's what makes the division good. We'll see what happens when we get the Sean O'Malley Marlon Dara rematch, because we're going to get it, folks. Just be prepared. We're going to get it. Maybe it's February, maybe it's March, but that fight is going to happen, for sure. The baby seal. Go ahead.

Hey, Mike, real quick. Do you think we should just get rid of 10-8s in MMA? It's kind of holding up divisions if you think about it because of the Donboovych and what was it? Donbovich and anywhere

were... Yeah, Akalav. And then the fight on Noche, like it's just putting up divisions if you think about it. You think we should just get rid of it next? No, I don't think we should get rid of it. It's just, we just need a better way to utilize it.

Because like, it is a boxing scoring model and I understand why MMA tries to use it, but a lot of times that it makes sense. It's clear in boxing. Like we start off, winner of the round, and a close round wins a 10-9. In boxing, if you just knock a guy down, like it's automatic 10-8.

If you knock him out twice, automatic 10-7. Knock-down third time, automatic 10-6. Like, it's knocked down as a point every single time. What bothers me in MMA with the 10-point must system is, like we treat a super close 10-9 round the same as almost a dominant 10-9 round. Like it's exactly the same. Maybe there wasn't a knockdown,

maybe there wasn't a near finish. But if someone, you know, we have round one and two guys are on the feet and one guy just lands like a few more stripes is a little more aggressive, has a couple of extra moments, right? They win a 10-9, but it's a super tight round.

And then we go to the next. round and fighter b gets a takedown stays on top of him he's landing ground and pound like fighter a is not in like incredible danger of getting finished but he is getting flat out dominated like did nothing in the round but it scored a 10-9 like how are those 10-9s the same how are those 10-9s the same that's my big issue with the 10-point must system I think 108 should be used a little more aggressively, obviously not in the Alexa Grasso case, because that was not a 10-8 round.

But you could have said, but in that fight, like there were two possible other 10-8 rounds in that fight. Round 2 could have been a 10-8, round 3 could have been a 10-8. Like, there were more reasonable arguments for 10-8s and 2 and 3 in that fight than there wasn't 5.

So I honestly, I still don't know what Mike Bell was thinking there. It doesn't seem like anybody else knows a Mike Bell was thinking there. You can try to defend them and say, well, the angle and all this. No, there's no world where that's a 10-8. What I would like to see more of is more 10-10 rounds. Honestly, like we have to be okay with the occasional draw, guys. Like, we have to be okay with that. I know it sucks because, like, with the way the pay structure is, it's win and show.

but we have to be more okay with 10-10 rounds. Like, Chivchenko, Grasso 2, round 4, round 4, round 4, 10-10 instead of a 10-8, and then scored at the up, like, gave Grasso 10, like, we're still going to draw that way? Like, I don't think there'd be any complaints. I don't think there would be any complaints about that. I don't think we'd get rid of 10-8 rounds.

I think we just need to use them, not totally loosely, but use them better. And I think we need more 10-10 rounds, honestly. I think we need more 10-10 rounds. Like a super-close match where it's like, oh, this one could have gone either way. I think we should utilize that a little bit more. For sure.

But no, don't get rid of 10-8s altogether. Let's try to get Big Price in here. We'll get to Viking and then we've got to get out of here. Big Price got the Wheel of Doom. Not going through. Not going through. Big Price. You could try to get to get out of here.

Oh, baby, hold on. Nope, don't have them. Maybe we get Viking in here? Viking? Do we have you? Wait, would you say? I couldn't hear anything you said. Who is the biggest superstar right now in the U.S.C?

Kobe Covington or John O'Malley? Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. Bigger superstar, Colby or O'Malley? It's probably O'Malley. Yeah, it's O'Malley. It's O'Malley. It's O'Malley.

Colby's there. Like, Colby's a star. in a different way. Like, he's more of a... Like, Colby's definitely over. That dude gets views. People care what he has to say. Whether you love him or hate him.

Like, dude, he brings traffic. Like, there's no doubt about it. Colby has been... Colby's been a part of some big cards. Like, he has. What he fought Uspen at MSG? Like, that was a big-ass gate for the UFC.

That's all the good chunk of paper views for that. So, but I think O'Malley, I think it's O'Malley. I think he resonates more with the younger audience. And I think that's honestly, the UFC wants to attract that audience more than anybody else right now. And it's, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. That's a smart business thing to do. But I think it's O'Malley, not by a lot right now, but I do think if O'Malley goes out and beach chito and

looks great doing it, it will certainly be O'Malley by a lot. But we'll see. All right, rapid fire. We have three lined up. We're going to fire through these real quick. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Big Mike, appreciate you, man. How's everything going on? Yeah, I don't know if you've heard anything regarding Michael Page or MVP in regards to where he's going to be fighting, whether he's chosen the UFC or, you know, he's had a goal of, you know, where he wants to fight just because I think he's going to, he'd make a great addition to the World Tour Division.

So I don't know if you know anything about that. Appreciate you. Nothing that I've heard about MVP yet. I'm sure there's some interest from, like, everybody involved. Bellator is kind of a mystery because we just don't know what the hell of the future is for them. PFL would actually be interesting with this new pay-per-view thing. Like, the amount of people

who said to me after the PFL Europe event that nobody got to watch in the United States, uh, that it seems like not a dream fight, but a fight that's on people's radars is MVP versus Cedric Dumbay. Like, people want to see that fight. People want to see that fight.

And PFL's got money to spend. So if I'm PFL, I'm trying to make that fight happen, man. I'm trying to make that fight happen. I've talked about this before. It all depends on what Michael wants. It all depends on what he wants. Does he care about just making a bag? If it's all about the money, then he should go to PFL.

He should go to, he should fight in BKFC again, honestly, because BKFC has got money to spend. too and they would pay him maybe you look at a game bread you look at the game bread bare knuckle they're paying fighters tremendously from all accounts there's a game bread

boxing card supposedly it's going to be coming up at the end of the year when I talked to Mazadal he said there's going to be a big announcement in regards to that a big ass event that's going to shock a bunch people so that's not a bad place to go like there's places for him to go it just depends on what he wants

If this is a legacy thing, and it's not all about the money, and he wants to cement some legacy, then yeah, go to the UFC. Because he's out of all the potential suitors, at least in my opinion, I think MVP will get the least amount of money from the UFC. Because they don't need them. They don't need Michael Venpage. We have a nice little addition, but they don't need them. But there would be some interesting fights for him.

But like, let's just look at Walterweight in the UFC. see let's take a gander at i'm going to look at my rankings here let me pull up my rankings real quick just in regards to like who i would pick there we go that's what i'm looking for that's what i'm looking for welter rates do to do okay sorry about that she might i'd absolutely pick against MVP. I'd pick Usman against MVP. I'd pick Colby against MVP.

Shafcott against MVP. Amosov against MVP. I'd probably pick Bilal Muhammad. I would probably pick Gilbert Burns. Brady would be interesting, but I would probably lean Brady. Wonderboy would be fun, but I don't think they're going to

fight each other. Ian Gary would be super fun. Jeff Neal would be fun. Like, there's fun fights but like man he would struggle against the top eight or nine guys because they would just wrestle the shit out of him so it's tough man it's it's just tough that's a tough division to get up there when when wrestling is your is your bad thing so i mean if mp signs the ufc that i would actually honestly of all the places he lands i think that would be the most surprising I would give him so much credit though

if he signs with the UFC but I just think at the age he's at this point in his career I think he just wants to kind of cement his future and he ain't going to get that bag with the UFC at least not right away we'll go one more we'll go with Ray on and then

this is it perhaps but the wheel of doom is upon us it's not going through All right. Well, lucky for you, Rayon. Screenshoting, if you come in tomorrow, I will boost you to the front of the line. But we got to go. We guts to go, everybody. BTL coming up at a little over an hour's time from right now, 12.30 p.m. Eastern. If you didn't get questions in here for whatever reason, we're going to answer questions on BTL the whole time.

The whole time. Unless we get some, like, breaking news in between now and 1230 Eastern. But if not, I will be back here tomorrow. And we'll do it again, everybody. We will do it again here on heck of a morning. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. If you guys came in a little bit later,

you can listen to the entire show, start to finish on the M.A. Fighting Podcasting Network. See you tomorrow, 10 a.m. or 10.15 a.m. Eastern time. I think that's kind of the new time we're going with. But have a great rest of your Thursday. And as always, have a heck of a morning, everybody. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Okay. Only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first? There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. You've seen Colonna change over the years, and it's growing faster than ever. The city is working to make sure enough homes are being built for people of all incomes and stages of life.

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