MMA Fighting - HOAM | Would UFC Massively Suffer If Dana White Stepped Away?

Episode Date: January 12, 2023

Dana White spoke with reporters on Wednesday during the UFC Vegas 67 media day to discuss the video of him being shown slapping his wife on New Year's Eve. While White took ownership for a lot of things, one thing the UFC president said that stuck out was that the promotion, the fighters, and the business of the UFC would all suffer if White were to be suspended, or ousted from his position. Is that true? On an all-new edition of Heck of a Morning, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck gives further reaction to White's scrum, and that comment in particular – arguing that the UFC would be just fine without him in that position. Additionally, listeners give their thoughts on how this situation continues to be handled, while also asking about Francis Ngannou, ONE Championship, Islam Makhachev vs. Alexander Volkanovski, Khamzat Chimaev, UFC Vegas 67, and more. You can listen live to Heck of a Morning Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 10 a.m. ET on the MMA Fighting Twitter Spaces. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Thursday, January 12th, 20203, and it is indeed a heck of a morning live on the M.A. Fighting Twitter Spaces, you can hear the show in its entirety shortly thereafter on the M.A. fighting podcasting network. I am Mike Heck. I hope everyone's having a fantastic week. It is for the first time in 2023. A fight week.

Yes, the UFC is back on Saturday. UFC Vegas 67. It's been a pretty dark start to the year, and I know a lot of people, a lot of fans are excited that Fights are back. This Saturday, we have a new main event. Calvin Gasselam no longer fighting Naservine Imovov. Emavov will now face Sean Strickland. We took the fight on, they'll end up being, what, five days notice by the time he steps in there. Fight will take place to 205 pounds. rest of the card is let me pull it up here it's not bad i mean there's some good fights on it danny gay damon jackson the co-made event that's great fight punis oriano roman copulaf the featured

bout big one at 135 between kettlin viera and rakel pennington we haven't seen a women's bannamweight fight in a long ass time so that's a good one to come back to another banamway fight for the men. We got Umar Normaga Madoff versus Hione Barcelos. That's going to be fun. Abdul Razak al-Hasan versus Claudio Ribeiro, Matush Rebeki versus Nick Fiorre,

Matush Mendonka versus Javid Basharat. Might be Mateus. Sorry about that. Alon Nassimento versus Carlos Hernandez. Daniel Argeta versus Nick Aguirre. Jimmy Flicks first fight post-retirement. He's back.

taking on Charles Johnson and I'll kick off with Priscilla Kachewara versus Sajara U-Banks. And six fights were scheduled for this card already that are no longer happening. Jeff Malino was supposed to fight Jimmy Flick. We mentioned the main event. It's supposed to be Gassalm Emovoff. Jeff Neal, Shafkat Rokmodov, supposed to be on this card. David Onama, Jarno Errins was supposed to be on this card. Isaac Dolgarian was supposed to make his UFC debut on this card against Daniel Argeta

and Omar Morales was supposed to fight Rebecca and those fights no longer happening for what appears to be a multitude of different reasons. So we will get to your calls to see a lot of you lining up. And certainly there's a lot to talk about in the world of MMA, including, which we'll start off with, because I feel like we've started multiple shows in a row at this. but the story continues to evolve. Dana White spoke with members of the media yesterday.

The UFC Vegas 67 Media Day went down at the UFC Apex in Las Vegas. And right as things are about to kick off, right before the fighters are going to take the stage, Dana White, unexpectedly, unbeknownst to anybody there and anybody else, steps up to the microphone, opens things up by saying, I'm here because I want the focus of this media day to be on the fighters and the fights.

I don't want this whole media day to be about what I did on New Year's Eve. He reiterated a lot of the things he said in the TMZ interview where there's no excuses and he's embarrassed and it's all about his family and his kids and all of that. And then he added on his own the caveat that I've seen it online. I've seen the comments. Do not defend me. Do not defend me in any way, shape, or form.

What I did was indefensible. Do not defend me. It's just awful. Don't defend me. It's on me. No need to, I don't need a defense. I'm not defending myself. Do not defend me.

That kind of people. that caught some people in a very positive way. And there was a lot, and we reacted to this immediately after. So I basically watched it. David and AK watched it. We jumped on a Zoom chat. We recorded it.

Put it on the podcast network. So if you wanted basically our immediate reaction to that scrum, you can hear it there. But obviously, I've had multiple hours since then to reflect on everything. and I stand by a lot of what I said, that Dana does deserve credit for stepping up to the plate and facing the M.A. media and doing it as quickly as he did,

because I'm sure a lot of you felt the same way I did. We probably weren't going to see him do that for quite some time. And I didn't think we'd see it this quickly. I didn't think we'd see it in Brazil. I didn't think we'd see it until maybe March. before the March 4th pay-per-view. Not the case. Stepped up.

Said what he had to say. Took questions. Some of the responses. Cool. Some of them I 100% had issues with and disagreed with. And the big one to me was what he was asked about repercussions and punishment and all of that stuff. Because when Dana gets to that point where he feels like he's back against a corner in some ways, he tries to flip the question on everybody else.

John Morgan asks him, is there going to be any punishment, any repercussion? And Dana immediately said, well, what do you think they should be? If I step away for 30 days or 60 days, that's not a punishment. That doesn't affect me. I could have left in 2016. I don't need to do this. it wouldn't punish me if I stepped away. It would punish the business.

It would punish the fighters. It would punish the UFC. It would punish the company. All that. And boy, oh boy, could I not disagree with that more? And I thought that was very short-sighted on his part. I thought that was very egotistical on his part. I thought it was somewhat manipulative.

That's the word I'm looking for. I thought it was a little bit egotistical. and while I gave him credit for a lot of things that he said, I did not agree with that at all. I thought he definitely should have got a different direction with that. And that to me was the most sour thing of all. And I, I'm not ripping anybody that was there. I'm really not because they didn't know Dana was coming.

They didn't have any chance to prepare. And I think that was, I think there was probably a smart reason for that. Like, let's not tell anybody that I'm coming. Let's still give them the opportunity to ask me questions, but let's not let them truly prepare for it. When Dana said that I really, John Morgan gets the first question, not just because it's like a gimmick or a thing. I have covered many events with John Morgan. and John Morgan is the quintessential professional table setter. John will ask the questions that need to be asked,

but he does it with a specific purpose. Gets everything on the table, but when John finishes up his round of questions, he does such a great job of asking the right questions that lead to opportunities to follow up. And I was stunned that nobody asked him how his walking away would punish the company. I would love to hear why he feels that way. Is it a business thing?

Like, and I mentioned this exact thing. Like, if you guys ever watch the show Sons of Anarchy, sons of Anarchy, they are like, they're like a gun running motorcycle club. They sell guns to criminals, and that's how they make a lot of their money. And they have this deal in place with the IRA. And at one point, they're trying to make this big, massive deal to sell weapons to a cartel. And the guy who was running the deal representing the IRA said, I understand this is going to make money.

I don't trust these guys. But if Clay, you're there, who was like the former president did a bunch of awful things. If you're there, I'm cool with the deal. But if you're not there, then I'm not going to do this. the deal. So I don't know if it's like something like that where some of the sponsorships, some of the business deals they have in place are only in place if Dana is involved. So I don't know any of that. But in terms of the actual business itself, in terms of the actual fights, in the promotion and all of that, I don't think they need him right now. He could walk away for a

month or two months or six months or a year and nothing changes. Nothing changes. The fights will go on as scheduled. The promotion will go on as is. Everything will happen the way it's supposed to. Dane is not making the deals. He's not really out there promoting the way he did back in the day when they were trying to establish the business and the sport. He's just kind of there. Yeah, he's the face of the organization. But the machine is so well built. And, you know, he's just kind of there. And, you're what runs so well from a production standpoint that no one i just don't think it makes that much of a difference if dana's there or not i really don't think so and this whole thing of this is my punishment this is my repercussions this right here of answering your questions and

the video being out there and me having to deal with this that's all well and good he's not wrong about that, but it's just not enough. It's just not enough. And again, credit to Dana for stepping up to the plate and answering questions. There were things he said that I absolutely don't agree with. There were certain times in there where it looked a little strange. And look,

this was a plan thing. It was smart to do. But again, we weren't looking for that. We weren't looking for Dana to come up and answer the questions. I respect him for doing it. But we're not looking for him to do it. We're looking for the UFC to say something.

We're looking for endeavor to say something. We're looking for someone to do what everybody else in the world of sports would do. Come out and say, we don't condone the actions. We're not asking for anything crazy. We're not asking anybody to come out and be like, we're going to fire day in a way. We're going to remove him from his position. You have a whole group of senators and high-ranked politicians who certainly want them gone. That's a very big deal.

The Women's Caucus in California writing that open letter to Ari Emanuel asking for Dana's job. That's a huge deal, ladies and gentlemen. You may not think so. You may have looked at that headline and been like, who? Who is that? Go look at their website. Go look at all the people attached to that group. The amount of power in that group.

Go look at it. And that's just one state. What if other states do the same? That's massive. That's a huge deal. And most of us in the media have not asked for this. What we have asked for is the companies just to come out and just say something about it. We've talked to Dana.

We don't condone the actions. I know Dana saying himself, nobody's happy about this. that's great that he says it. I want everybody else to say it. I want the UFC to say it. I want the UFC to say it. We don't condone this. We don't.

This is not the type of story we want to attach to us. We don't agree with what he did. We're handling repercussions behind the scenes. We've told Daney he has to do some counseling. He's going to do a PSA. He's going to pay fine. These are the things we're looking for. We're not asking for his head.

We're not asking for his job. we're asking for these companies to say something. And that's not asking a lot. Like this is not a controversial thing I'm saying. This is what would happen in any other sport. We've seen incidents with the Dodgers recently. They're putting out public statements. We don't condone what Trevor Bauer did.

And he's gone. Like, that's all we're looking for. Some sort of response. And my biggest worry of all of this remains the same. what happens and it's ladies gentlemen i hate to put up the negative juju but it's going to happen it is going to happen 1,000 percent it is going to happen what happens when this happens when this happens with the fighter what happens when somebody who works for the company get to the same type of situation are you going to just ignore it too are you going to respond

what if it's what if it's a lower level fighter what if it's a guy who just got a contract out the contender series are they going to be immediately expendable what if it's a big star because you've already put it out there you've already set the precedent

and put it out there that if it's good for business if it will disrupt the business if it will hurt the company how can we punish them because it's not punishing the fighter, it's punishing the company. Like, you're putting that out there.

And it's going to happen. And how are you going to respond to it? Because if you punish the next fighter who is caught on video hitting a woman or his fiance or gets into some kind of skirmish or does something horrible and you actually punish them, like, what kind of message does that send? I just, and for all the people out there, and I know Ariel talked about this yesterday, We just said, I'll get over it. It's a private thing.

It's not a private thing. We've seen the video. It's there for the world to see. It's not a Dana White was arrested in Cabo for allegedly doing this. No, we've seen it. It's there for the world to see. He's telling everybody not to defend him. He's saying this.

People are still tripping over their own shoes, tripping over their own shoelaces. to still defend this guy. But I do want to address one comment that I've seen a lot and it's not just for me, it's for everybody else. Oh, you guys are loving this right now.

You're loving this. This is great. You've been waiting for this moment to take Dana down. It's literally the worst take of the year. You think I want to be talking about this? You think I want to start off every show talking about this story?

No. But you have to. It's the biggest story in common. combat sports right now. By a mile. Nothing is close. Nothing is close. And what people are asking for, not a lot.

We're asking for the same thing you would see in every other sport. That's it. So again, credit to Dana, respect, going up there and facing the music. But when will the UFC face the music? When will Endeavor face the music? The fact that the stupid Slap Fight League is still going to happen. It's just awful. It shouldn't be happening to begin with because it's just one of the dumbest ideas in the history of the world.

But just a couple of weeks after this is just, I mean, how could you allow this to happen? I just, I don't understand. I don't understand. But you guys have more about this. Happy to talk about it. You want to talk about the card on Saturday. Cool. We want to talk about AJ McKee resigning with Bellator, the Bellator lightweight Grand Prix,

which all the matchups are now officially set. I mean, we know A.J. McKee's going to fight Patricie Pitbull now after the other three fights have been put together. We just don't know when and where that fight's going to happen. But we know that's the matchup now because what else could it be? There's eight fighters. Three fights are already on the books. There's only two guys left.

So we know who's fighting. We just don't know when yet. So we can talk about that. We can talk about Habib. My interview with Eric Nixik just dropped, talking about Francis and Ghanu in his situation, him feeling that a fight with John Jones

March 4th, probably 50-50 at this point for multiple reasons, from the business side, from the just recovery side and being at the mercy of rehab, all of that stuff, whatever you guys want to talk about, we will talk about. So let's get into it. Four Corner Sports was first in line,

so we'll begin with him. Mike, how's it going? Good. Hey, so I'm going to first see about a couple things. I guess I started off with the whole Dana White thing. One thing that popped into my head after he brought up about how he's going to have to deal with the consequences about hand-slapping his wife. One thing that brought up came into my head is he said that he let go of Dan Hardy for mistreating women. And to me, I'm like, you know, so what's going to happen if somebody mistreating women?

you know somebody within the company and somebody had i don't know who asked him but he said that he didn't reach out to any fighters because it was a family matter and i just wanted to know like how does that you know what did you take of that i felt like somebody of his stature you know and i think ariel um said it well then when you're younger you're told that if you make a mistake yes you know you have to live with what you did but you also face the consequences as well as well as you're younger you're as well. And, you know, he, I think, may have none of that press conference just to get it over with, but the story isn't going away. I mean, I'm seeing, he's trending on Twitter. I don't know if it's on my personal, on my personal feed, or is it on the, on the, on Twitter in general,

but I'm seeing a lot of people, you know, what's the called, um, tweeting about him, celebrities, you know, athletes. I wonder. How would it be if, like, other athletes from different sports, like LeBron James was asked about this? I see people saying that, you know, Kyrie got so much, you know, slack for what he said. And you don't see anybody talking about Dana White in that type of sense. And then also I wanted to talk about one of the fights for this weekend, Jimmy Flick versus Charles Johnson. How do you expect that fight to go about? I mean, this is Jimmy Flick's first fight since he retired.

and if Jimmy Flick wins, how many fights do you think he might need to fight in order to be in like number one contention? All right, thanks, Mike. Thanks, man. Yeah, I honestly, I wish I had a good technical answer for you, but I honestly have no idea. We don't know what Jimmy Flick is going to show up.

I mean, this guy was kind of on top of the world. He was surging. He had a ton of momentum. And then he just out of nowhere left. retired, did it for his family. And then, you know, he told me that him and his wife, or I think they're divorced, or they're separated, or I think they're divorced. Their relationship's over.

I know that. And that sort of led to this comeback. And I don't know what he's been doing the last couple of years. I honestly don't know. I don't know how much he's been training. I don't know. I'm sure he's been doing some training. I'm sure he's been coaching a little bit.

Let me look at the odds here because this is a big topic of conversation earlier where the betting lines are just so massively swung towards Charles Johnson. All right. They kind of evened out. They haven't evened out, but they're not where they were a couple weeks ago. Johnson's a huge favorite. Minus 340, Jimmy Flick plus 280. I mean, to me, it all comes down to, I mean, this is just a,

just not knowing what Jimmy's been doing. But this fight goes to the ground, Jimmy's got a really good chance. If Jimmy can't get him down and create that chaos that has made him successful, then Charles could win. I don't know. It's going to be a good fight.

If I'm looking at it from like a betting perspective, and you're giving me nearly plus 300 on Jimmy Flick against a lot of guys at 125, even some of the guys who are ranked right now, I'd probably take it. I know there's a lot of questions about him, but I think some of the stuff that made him successful are still going to be there, just natural stuff.

So, yeah, it should be a good fight. We'll see what happens. And then, yeah, the Dana stuff, like I said earlier, it's, he hasn't had a lot of, there just hasn't been a lot of pressure on him. Like, I keep going back to, I keep going back to a call we took on the show last week where someone said that this was being,

being blown out of proportion. And I just could not disagree with that more because it hasn't gotten enough attention in the realm of sports. It just hasn't. And like I said, any other sport, this is handled completely different. This is a fighter.

This is handled completely different. If this is Sean Shelby or Mick Maynard on video, they're gone. Like they are gone. and the UFC is releasing statements and Endeavor's releasing statements, no questions asked, this is handled differently. But because it's Dana, it's not handled the same way. And that's a lot of my issue here.

The company's stance would be vastly different if it wasn't Dana. And that's it. And yeah, maybe, look, we've had big-name celebrities talking about this, Jamie Fox, we've had Noriega, there's others that I'm missing for sure. But it's going to take more of what we saw from the women's advocacy group in California. It's got to take senators. It's going to take politicians.

It's going to take very powerful people to make this happen. And if you get groups like that from 20 to 30 states putting that pressure on the company, you can't ignore that. You can't. Then you can create some sort of change. But I don't think people understand how big of a deal that is to have a well-established group of senators, politicians, assembly women, writing an open letter like that to Ari Emanuel. And just seeing how Ari is acted about things like this in the past. Again, we're not asking for.

a lot. We're just asking you to respond to it. It doesn't even have to be a whole thing. Just a couple sentences. We've seen the video. We've talked to Dana. We absolutely do not condone the actions of Mr. White. He's going to take counseling. He's going to pay a fine. He's going to do a PSA. And it is our hope that nothing like this ever happens again. What is so bad about that? What is so egregious about a statement like? About releasing a statement like that. What is so bad about asking for the company to have an actual stance on this? I just don't get it. Like, I don't understand the pushback to media members asking for that. I don't get it. I don't understand. You know, we bring up Roger Goodell all the time, but to Arrow's

point, Dana White's not the commissioner of the UFC. He is the president of the UFC. He's almost like the owner of a team. If this is Mark Cuban, if this is Mark Cuban, would it be handled the same way? One billion percent not. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? This would be the biggest story. This would be the top story on every website in the world if this was Mark Cuban. And I go back to Tuesday show where I told you about conversations I had with my friends who work in sports, whether they're media or front office people or teams in different sports. And they all basically said the same thing. You are who, we throw up the end of screen line, you guys are who we always thought you were.

MMA, the UFC is always what I thought it was. We're laughing at you. One person told me that the sports world, their sport, people involved the media, players, etc. are laughing at us because of how this is being handled. There you go. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what?

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Conditions apply. Let's go to Ane. What's up, ma'am? And so I would like to gather my thoughts. Give me a quick second. So, yes. So the first thing that I wanted to start off with, I mean, I know that, you know, it might be a bit negative and bit sad, but it's, it was really difficult to hear of Victoria Lee's passing. I haven't, I didn't, I'm not aware of the entire story yet.

Was there any release on the reasons behind it or anything? have you seen anything? No? This is not the only question. No, nothing public. Yes, I mean, I sincerely hope, I don't know if you've seen my tweet, but I sincerely hope it's nothing related to,

you know, a mental health issue or her taking her own life because of late we've seen, I mean, I have noticed a couple of cases where people have taken their own life. And I just hope, but that doesn't mean, you know, I'm going to be happier if it's something else. It's sad anyway. I just, you know what I mean, right?

I just don't want it to be a case where she decided to take her own life. But moving on, I'm going to talk about, talk a little bit about the Dana White issue. And I don't know if AK is over here, but it's all right. I'm going to leave you and AK with a riddle. I mean, I'm going to propose a matchup, but I'm going to leave it as a little for you to guess it. Does that sound good? So about the Dana White situation with the TMZ and stuff, I have this weird theory. I think what might have happened was, you know, the video, if you look at it, it looked like a security footage. So what I think, someone might have noticed this happening, someone from TMZ, or, you know, or someone who, you know, who just wanted to screw Dana White.

Or maybe just someone from TMC just saw this happening. They pulled up the security footage. And they might have told Dana White that, you know, dude, here's the video. You better give us the first interview. You know what I mean? Because when you look at the people from TMZ who were actually taking the interview, it seemed like they had everything set up. They were in the studio and they were ready.

You know, everything was, as if, you know, were expecting this to happen. And even the way the video was streamed, it was the exact event, if that makes sense. As in they know, they just knew when to start recording or they just knew when to, you know, the exact timestamps of the video. That's a weird theory I had in mind. But again, it was a bit surprising to see him give a statement to the media. but what I think would be great would be for, like you said,

UFC and Endeavour to release a statement saying, you know, Dana is going to be taking a sensitivity training and maybe for the next six months or for the next six to eight months, his 50% of his salary or his entire check would be going to a domestic violence, survivors association, or, you know, something that can actually be quantified, something that can actually be something that can be written on a paper

not just him guilt-ripping himself and talking about his conscience which in itself is way more heavier than money that's what I had in mind and about the fight so here is the thing although this veteran had although this veteran had an amazing performance in December

he still needs a fight to build up, a fight to build himself up. And his opponent, after the way he got screwed, he could use the veteran's name. Can you guess the fight, Mike? And thank you very much for the opportunity. And I look forward to speaking to you soon. Thanks, man. I will, admittedly, I will re-listen to that and go through the riddle a little later for, for time's sake, but I'm sure it's a fun matchup knowing you.

Look, I don't think there's a theory here at all. I think it's pretty obvious how this whole thing happened with TMZ. There is maybe not an official partnership between the two entities, but there is certainly a relationship there. And this was Dana and, let's be honest, the UFC's, this is their PR move. this is their PR move and

I don't know how it all works I don't know one of my questions is how many videos are there and why are we only seeing that one I just don't believe that's the only video I just it's impossible it's almost impossible

that that's the only video it's 2023 we're on our phones all the time I'm literally holding my phone right now You're telling me that of all the people that were in that club that night, only one person knew that Dana White was there, and only that one person had a cell phone with them during that moment.

I don't believe it. I don't believe it. And again, I'm not trying to spit out conspiracy theories, but I just don't believe it. I don't believe that there's nobody on that balcony that wasn't filming it. I don't believe it. But that's neither here nor there. But this was clearly a thing where someone got video.

They probably hit up TMZ and said, hey, I got this video of Dana White. Because this person could have just put it on YouTube 30 seconds later and would have got a billion hits. And this would be a much different story because it would have been handled a lot differently. But TMZ or Dana got a hold of this video before the public did. and they put this all together to do this interview. I mean, that's exactly what happened. And TMZ fed him a bunch of softballs. This is all planned out.

This is probably all scripted. I'm sure both sides knew what questions and responses that were going to happen. I mean, it's clear. It's obvious. I'm not saying anything out of turn. It's one million percent obvious what happened. And that's how it was handled. I mean, that's probably, TMZ probably found out.

They probably bought the rights to the video. That person made some money. And they probably called Dane on the phone and said, hey, I got this video of you. Let's do an interview. So everyone can get the most out of this. I mean, that's just what it seems like to me. Because when it, again, bringing up Mark Cuban. What have somebody sent a video to TMZ with Mark Cuban doing this?

You think they would have called Mark Cuban on the phone and said, Hey, Mark, buddy, got this video of you and your wife. I'm going to release it, but like, let's do an interview. Let's get the Mavericks PR people on the phone and let's set this all up to make us all look good. No, they would have released that shit in five seconds. So, I mean, that's that. I mean, there's no theory here. It's just, it is what it is.

And it was proven by the UFC when we asked for a statement and they said, refer to the TMZ interview. That's the statement, essentially. So that's everything you need to know about that. I mean, all this is right there. I'm not saying anything controversial or completely out of turn. It just, this is what it is. And, AA, I'll get to you in a second, but hold on a second. What I will say is it's, it's.

not, it's smart. Like this is, it was a smart move to do it that way. It was a smart move to do it that way to help. Because the goal of all this very involved is not to, it's for this to go away. That's what the UFC and Dana and Endeavor and everybody wants. They want it to go away. And all of everything that is happening here is so that it will go away. And I don't think it's going to.

we'll continue on. Go ahead, double A. How you doing? What's up? I'm all right. Since this is a fight show, obviously, those 12 fights, what do you think of a matchup between

Nate the Train and Alex Casares? When I heard that, oh, I got so excited. I got so excited. All right, have a heck of a morning, Mike. Everyone else, have a heck of a morning. Have a great day. Take care of yourself and peace.

Thanks, man. Yes, I did see the reports. I've not fully confirmed this yet. I will say I have half confirmed that fight. It's Nate Landware versus Alex Casares, March 25th, UFC San Antonio. Great fight. Great fight.

Makes sense. Yeah. I mean, what else could I say? It's just, it's a freaking banger. It's great fight. Good for both guys. Makes sense for both guys. So, yeah.

I'm still in the process of trying to fully confirm it, but from the responses I've gotten from the inquiries, I'm told that that's probably what's going to happen, March 3. Fitz. So there you go. Good little scrap right there at 1.45. Let's go to Emilio. What's up, man?

What's up, Mike? Yeah, thanks for having me. Hope that you've been having a great day so far. I mean, considering everything, you know, the whole Dana thing, which is something that I wanted to start off with. Going back to what you mentioned about, just feeling very frustrated with all the people saying or the people that are claiming that this new story is completely blown out of proportion. I'd just like to add my two cents to that. I fully agree with you. And furthermore, I think that the people that say this,

it's because, guess what? This news is uncomfortable, you know? It's not, it's not nice to hear that the company, that the sport, or rather, yeah, that the president of the company of the sport, or that host sports that we all know and love, you know, did this. It's not nice to hear. It's not great to talk about. We'd obviously rather be talking about the fights and the fighters

and getting excited about that, about that which we all love and why we're here. But yeah. I think sometimes the truth is uncomfortable and that's good. It means that it's your brain telling you, okay, this is not comfortable to talk about. And that's exactly the reason why we need to talk about this. Like if something makes you uncomfortable, if something gets you out of your comfort zone, that's good. It needs to be talked about. And even though there is a part of me that is like,

there is obviously a part of me that's, I'm just so over this already, but I know that it's important that it stays relevant because otherwise, you know, it's like, it's like it doesn't matter. And it does. It matters a lot because it sets a president. So yeah, anyways, that's,

that's what I wanted to say about Dana. Now moving on to other things, well, specifically regarding fighting, fist fighting. I don't know about you, Mike, but I am,

I mean, especially with how the UFC card has been decimated, like this weekend's card. I'm super looking forward to the one championship card. You know, Alasov versus Superbond.

I went back and listened to the, what's it called the promotional festivus that you and Jett did. Great, great pot, by the way. Really enjoyed that one. I think that I agree with most of the stuff that you said, you and Jett said about one championship. But the way, the way.

one thing that I don't know I felt like maybe you from my perspective at least I the one thing that I feel like you guys miss about one or missing the point about one was that it's you know and I'm sorry not sorry okay it's it's basically mixing up the martial arts you know you got not only MMA you got Muay Thai and kickboxing so that means that it offers something different compared to the other promotions, which are the majority, actually, all of them pretty much are just exclusively MMA promotions. But I don't see that as a negative. I actually think that that's something positive, you know?

Yeah, well, I do partly agree with Jets take that they should drop kickboxing or Muay Thai. I mean, ideally kickboxing because, I mean, Muay Thai is basically like kickboxing, but you know, you get to throw knees and elbows and you get to work in the clinch a little bit more. So, yeah, I, yeah, I disagree completely with the idea that they should maybe, like, become solely an MMA promotion

because there's so many people out there, There are so many fans that are, you know, fight sports fans that, you know, these are the classical ties that are like, oh, yeah, you know, when they see, I don't know, some, I don't know, some Dagestani fighting another. I hear you, man. I got a, I got other people waiting, so I have to move on. But I'll respond to that if you don't mind. Yeah, sure, no worries.

That's basically, just wanted to get your thoughts on that. The main event for that is awesome. Can't wait for it. Thanks for everything you do. Peace and love to everybody. Thanks, man. Yeah, I didn't mean to cut you up, but I do want to,

I do have to get out of here pretty soon, so I want to try to get to everybody. Look, my issue with one is not what they're doing. It's how they perceive themselves in just such an unrealistic way. It just makes no sense at all. Like this, I appreciate what some of the things that they do from a competitive standpoint and from a combat sports standpoint.

Like the DJ fight, that like the mixing of the martial arts, the different combats and the different rounds, like the different sides. Like that shit's great. I love it. I just want one to present themselves in a realistic way. I'm not asking a lot. This whole notion that we are one B to the UFC is bullshit. It's bullshit. And we all know it.

But they just they don't change their tune at all. And yes, they have made some great moves. The Amazon Prime move was fantastic. It's huge. It's massive. It puts them at a different position. 1,000%.

But the attitude of the company does not change at all. The weight cutting thing is a absolute disaster. And we're dealing with, it again today. Like I haven't even seen all the details, but I'm seeing on Twitter, a bunch of people failing hydration, missing weight, all this stuff. Like, come on, man. Like, we can't fix this already. It's the same thing. Every card. Like, these are the things that need to be fixed. Stop saying you are 1B to the UFC because you're not. You're not even number three right now.

You might, you're probably number four in the grand scheme of things with the way that maybe in your area, maybe in Asia, you are, you're up there, but in the grand scheme of things here in North America, most of the world, you're not. To say like you won't co-promote with Bellator and PFL because it's beneath you, because it's not the UFC. Like, come on. It's the attitude of one that drives people away, not the fighters in the fights and the concepts of what they're trying to do.

It's their overall attitude, that they're better than everybody else. Billions and billions of people are watching our show. No, they're not. No, they're not. Like, just be realistic. Just be truthful. Like, promote the fact you do different things. Just say those things.

we're not the UFC, we're not Bellator, we're not PFL. We do our own thing. We mix things up. We have these different fights and different concepts. Like, say that stuff. And I think more people will come on board, but this whole, it's us in the UFC. We're flip-flopping for the number one spot is just not true. It's just not true.

And that's my biggest issue with one. And plus they just don't promote anything anymore. They promoted the DJ Marias fight, that first Amazon Prime card. They promoted the hell out of it. People watched it. People watched the whole card and they liked it. The aftermath, the follow-ups of everything, all great. It was a big event for them.

And then they just stopped promoting things altogether. It's cool to have the platform. But you got to tell people things are happening. Nobody knew Roberto Soldeach was even making his one debut before that past Amazon Prime card. Nobody do. Because they didn't promote it. They just got to do better

in just the normal everyday things. Tell people these events are happening. Be realistic. Like at least Coker's not saying like we're the number one promotion. Even when like Coker talks about his roster as a promoter.

I don't think he's like, he at least creates debates at worst. what does he say our roster's as best as it's ever been and if you took three or four of our guys to match up against three or four the UFC guys in those divisions I think we do pretty well

I don't think that's an egregious statement but he's not coming out and saying like oh we're we'll only co-promote the UFC because they're the only ones in our they're the only ones in our neighborhood right now that's just he's not saying that he's not saying that he's doing like classic promoter stuff

but you can't argue with that. Like you can at least have a debate about some of the things that Koker says about Belator. There are things PFL says that you can have debates about. There's things the PFL, the PFL brass says that makes no sense at all. So they're not out of this conversation either, but that's where we're at. That's all we want to see from one. I appreciate the product and what they're trying to do, but just be real. Be real.

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Thank you for the opportunity. And I just, I just want to talk about Israel and the paperview and the paper views because, you know, I was searching for paper view in 2022. and I got the results that Israel Adesania sold the most paper written paper view, which was 600,000 Israel Adesania and Alex Pahara excluded UFC 283. I couldn't find those paper views. so Israel, Adesania should be respected for that. And the other thing I want to talk about, uh,

Francis Engano, because I saw his post on Instagram just recently and the Francis Engano's mother, she was wearing a PFL T-shirts. So do you have, uh, any sort of insight about, uh,

Francis and Ghano going to, going into the PFL and that's it and New York Creek big fan thank you Mike we're all big fans

in New York Rick the paper view by thing I mean I'm sure 281 did really good that card was really great I mean that was a great main card on paper

so I assume it did well I don't know if I necessarily trust the numbers that you're seeing because a lot of those numbers just aren't public just not public since they went to the ESPN Plus model, which is honestly, like not,

I mean, that's not, that's pretty smart. I mean, but honestly, like 600, 700,000 buys for 281, that wouldn't shock me. They'd be right around where I would think that thing would go. But I don't know how true they are. And I don't know where those people are getting the numbers from. So, but yeah, I'm sure that one did pretty solid. It was probably one of the best ones of the year for them.

As far as Francis goes, we've talked about it on this show a bunch. I know Ariel talked about it yesterday. There is an interview that is on M.A. fighting right now with Eric Nixick, the head coach of Francis and Gano, who sort of weighed in on that. And Francis is currently in Cameroon right now. He spent the holiday with his families. He had to get his visa renewed before he can come back. And he's not an outright free agent yet. I know Francis said something around January 20th is when like the date runs out.

And what Eric said was he got to work with Francis a little bit, just the two of them, before Francis went back to his home country, said Francis looked great, moving around great, he was bouncing around, said his energy levels were great, said that he said things such as, oh man, I'm back, I miss this shit. and it boosted up Eric's energy as well. And then I, of course, asked him straight up about where we're at with John Jones in March 4th. And he said it's 50-50 in his eyes. He thinks it's 50-50 that fight happens March 4th, not just from the contract and the business stuff, but the dude just had major knee surgery less than a year ago. and he admits March might be cutting it a little close to March 4th. But he also said if the UFC called them that day and said,

or in Francis called them and said, hey, we're fighting John Jones March 4th. They will have him ready if that's the case. But it seemed like what I got from Eric, and he said in the interview, seemed like April or May may be a little more realistic. But if Eric gets a call from Francis or Francis, his manager and says, hey, we're doing this March 4th. Then it is his job to do everything in his power to get Francis ready for March 4th. So his eyes, it's John Jones.

When? Not sure. If it's March 50-50, he thinks maybe April, May, a little more realistic. But he doesn't know anything about the contract side or anything like that. But he is kind of privy to what's going on, obviously, because he talks to Francis. But that's where we're at. No PFL deal. he's not a free agent.

He's not free to go and talk to anybody he wants to talk to right now. He's kind of in the same place as him. Recovering. Everybody seems to watch John Jones fight. We've talked about it on the show for months now that talks seem to be going well

from both sides. There is confidence that the fight will happen. March 4th is the one everyone's targeting. And we'll see if it does happen that day, if it happens a little bit later down the road. There is one thing Ariel said that I completely agree with, though. And you guys may agree with this or not. If Francis can't go March 4th, John Jones needs to fight March 4th. I don't care who it's against.

He's got to fight on that card. You can still do Francis after, but if John's ready to go March 4th, If Francis, for some reason, needs another month or two, which you can't blame him for because he tore all the CLs, the MCL, the ACL, all ripped out, still fought Cyril Gaon with that injury. John needs to fight March 4th, whether it's against Curtis Blades or Cyril Gaon or whoever.

He needs to fight on that card. You want to do an interim, or stepe, you want to do an interim title, do interim title. I don't care. But if Francis can't go March 4th, John should go March 4th. because right now the two fights that have been rumored and targeted for March 4th

don't look like they're happening anymore or at least there's a chance they might not. If you can get in Gano Jones, that's great. But if you can't, the other fight they were talking about was Al Jemate Sterling versus Henry Sehudo and we saw what Al Jemaine Sterling had to say March 4th probably not going to work for him

because of his torn bicep needs another couple, needs another month maybe. What are you going to put on that card? Like, it's, we're less than two months away. So the clock's ticking. I mean, the clock is definitely ticking here. So,

I guess we'll see what happens. We'll take a few more rapid fire because BTL's going off a little earlier today at 1230 with myself and Jedmishu. I have five people in line. We get George, Terino, Evan, Australian talk, and Ebswalia.

We will get to all five of you, but let's do this kind of rapid fire. George, hello. Hey, Mike. Okay, thanks. And rapid fire. I just wanted to say right here on your show, what did I say? A humbled Dana is the best we can hope for. And this is the quote unquote humbled Dana that we saw at today's press conference.

when Dana said that punishing him, really punishing him, would hurt the fighters, that was as truthful as the one FC, the president of one FC saying they have a billion viewers. Okay. What Dana really meant to say is punishing him, really punishing him would hurt the company's bottom line. That's the real reason why he hasn't been punished. Endeavor, UFC, ESPN, Disney, TBS. They like having Dana in charge. They think he is their best option in terms of making money, the bottom line.

It's got nothing to do with accountability. It's got nothing to do with what the fighters want. It's what is best for the bottom line. Until they find, until there's some pressure, some outside pressure, maybe some boycotts, maybe something that hurts the company line, the bottom line, then and only then will we get real punishment for Dana. And Mike, I will leave you with this. Proof of this point, today, Monster Energy announced his sponsorship with the Power Slap League.

It's all about the money, Mike. Follow the money. And please, what do you have for us, Mike, in terms of the Adisanya Pareda rematch? I cannot wait to see that rematch. Thank you. I had heard about the Monster thing. I have to say, I'm a little surprised. But who knows?

Like, it could just be like an added value thing because they have a deal with the UFC. So I don't know the ins and outs. I know Monster. We broke the news that they're now the official energy drink of one championship. Yeah. I don't know what to say about that. I don't know what to say.

that thing's going to tank badly. Like, I don't even think, like, the wrestling community is, even though they're getting ads. I watched AEW last thing. I watched it until the main event was about to start, and then I was like, nope, not watching that.

Cucka. I'm out of here. But I saw multiple power slap ads for that card and for next Wednesday, and I just don't care. I'm not watching it. We ain't covering it. So if you're like,

well, I'm not going to watch this week, because M.A. Fighting's got us. No, we don't. Nope. Not happening. As far as the rematch between Prairie and Adasania, no clue. I assume that's the direction they're going to go, but no idea when and where and timelines and all that. Evan. So, Mike, I just wanted to sort of add on to something that you were talking about there before with one championship. I like, don't get me wrong, I love one championship fights.

They put on great quality fights, but their organization sort of coming off as like cocky and like above everybody else. I just feel like not enough people are talking about how their weight cutting thing is like you were saying, like a complete disaster. And some people are actually saying that they have fixed weight cutting. But if you watch their way-ins, which I know they aren't very popular, but there's like five or six weight misses every way-in. and yeah, it just feels like, you know, the only way you can fix weight cutting is just by adding more weight classes.

What they've done is added hydration tests, so you have to be hydrated, but also make weight. So it just doesn't make much sense. I just wanted to get your opinion on that. Thanks, Mike. Yeah, I mean, I can't say it any better. Fix weight cutting, my ass. It's a disaster. It's embarrassing.

It's embarrassing. every card we get the emails it's just so ridiculous fix it some other way just the way you're doing it now sucks uh let's go to terino uh then we'll go to australian talk and absalia will close us out trino what's up trino are you there yeah yes i am i'm sorry i was trying to get my mute button uh happy new year mike uh you too happy new year everyone so right um i'm going to go straight to it. I don't know how to put this nicely. I think it's

quite unfortunate that Dana White who I respect a lot you know, I have a lot of respect for Dana for what he's done for the UFC you know, for how he's grown the business of

mixed martial arts, you know, where he has positioned the UFC I truly, truly respect him. But I think it's quite unfortunate that this particular incident will get swept under the rug. Domestic violence, you know, violence against women, it's a big deal. There are so many people who have suffered from this.

I know people personally who have suffered from this. I'm in Nigeria. It happens quite a lot where you have the, You have men who hit women, who kill women, you know, who damage women, you know. And for this to happen and for Dana White not to, for it not to be seen that there is any repercussion or any punishment to this, it will not speak well at all. I understand. I heard the press conference today how he's gone out to say, you know what, the punishment is, me having to carry this on my head.

But if a man kills his wife, Mike, is the punishment for that man, the fact that he has to wake up every morning remembering that he killed his wife. That is just the consequence of the action.

That is not the punishment. You know, and this will send a very, very, very bad message to fighters, to fans, to other people who they're should would believe that you know what I should be able to

get away with hitting a woman it's not right it's wrong it's despicable but if it happens then nothing I should be able to get away without a punishment you know so I'll summarize by saying

I respect in a white a lot but if I was in his shoes you know I know that yeah the money is important I know that you know sponsors probably loved in a white. But if I was in his shoes, I would make,

I would make it seem, you know, that I'm getting punished for this in a significant way, you know, just so that we can close this chapter, really, you know,

because like I said, a lot of people on this call, myself included, you know, know, no people who have gone through, you know, this violence. And it's not,

it's not funny because people have died from it. You know, so it's a very serious issue, you know, that I wish he would take, the punishment would be more serious.

You know, and that's what I'll say. You know, I love the UFC a lot. I watch it every single time. I follow it so much. And this is just, for me,

it's hard, you know, because my friend's CVs and they ask me, oh, I heard the president of Dinawite is hitting his wife, you know,

what was done to him? And I'm saying, nothing. You know, it's hard to defend this. I'm not defending his actual, but it's hard to defend the fact that there is no punishment to this.

You know, that's what, that we wanted to speak about. Thank you. Hey, listen, you're not the only one that feels that way. And like I said, it's not just the precedent that it sets that you're basically opening the door to say, hey, the face of our company on video is in this situation. And he's not being punished. So if another fighter does it, it's the same thing.

it's hard to justify punishing them. And the big issue that I had with what the biggest issue I had with what Dana said yesterday was, me leaving doesn't punish me, it punishes the business and it punishes the fighters. And such a miss in my eyes, I think that was just not true. and you're basically setting a precedent that if you, if punishing you hurts the business, then you probably shouldn't be punished. Because we don't want to punish the business.

It's not a punishment to you because especially if it's a big star and you're making a ton of money and you're set up. Well, it's not a punishment to you. It's punishment to you. It's punishment to the fighters on the card that you were supposed to fight on. Like, it's just a bad reason. And again, all we've asked for is for the UFC and endeavor to come out in public and just say, what he did was wrong.

And we don't approve of it. This is, and this is the steps we're taking. He's got to do counseling. He's going to sit out for a couple months. Slap flights over. Although that's not going to happen. But even if you don't even say that, just say, he's going to do counseling. He's going to do this.

He's got to donate money and work with DV charities. And he's going to cut a PSA. Like, these aren't, like, no one's asking for him to be, like, removed from the position. Just show you give a fuck. Like, that's all we're asking for. And that's not a lot. We don't condone his behavior. Domestic violence is wrong.

Why can't you just put. out a three-sentence statement saying that. It blows my mind. Blows my mind. All right, we'll take two more. Australian talk real quick, and then we'll go to Absualia. Are you there? Hey, guys.

Thanks, man. Sorry, just dropped out for a second. It's 3 a.m. here in Australia, and we haven't got the best internet. We're not Japan. But aside from that, we've got Islam, who's meant to be coming to land down under to take on our series.

Serious chant, man. Volcanovsky, the pound for pounds. Like, this is a serious fight, gentlemen. And I know Mike Heck is seriously pumped up about this, and all the boys are in May fighting, love his all. The question is, Volkadovsky, man, he used to play rugby here down under, and he used to be a front rower, which is hardcore, playing against big Samoans, big Tongans,

all weighing, like, 250 pounds. And he used to go well. is he going to go okay against Islam? I think he's going to do well, man. I think he's a tight little package. He's fast in his feet. Who could forget when he got out of Otega's triangle man? And then Otega jumped on another one,

and he got out of that, and he came on top and smashed him. That's one point. Aside from that, John Jones, I'm tired of UFC fighters depriving us the fans of serious fights, man. We've missed out on so many good fights over the last decade, right? John Jones was never game enough to take on Anthony Johnson in his prime. Comier fought the best. John Jones didn't fight him.

So who is John Jones got to fight? He's going to fight Steeper, yeah? He's got to fight Francis, yeah? Man, John Jones evaded the heavyweight champ when Velazquez was the man. Okay, I understand John Jones is great. I've got his highlights, real, I watched everything, I watched what he did to Shogun back in the day. I know he lost a Matt Hamill through a technicality.

But John Jones, mate, your legacy, bro. You didn't need to get to 255 pounds to start taking on these dudes. Chale Sonnen stepped up as a 185 pounder, and he fought Fador in Ballotour and heavyweight. has John Jones been robbing the UFC fans of our opportunities? Same with Connor. Same with plenty of dudes. These guys haven't been fighting three serious challenges every single year.

I've had enough. I want them to put in some type of tournament. If they don't fight three times a year unless they're injured, mate, they're not stepping up to the plate. They're not taking on every single challenger, aside from that Volcanovsky. I was just watching Islam. Islam's jumping into snow water.

It's freezing. He's running to the sauna. He's coming out of the sauna. And he's doing snow angels in legitimate snow. What do we think, gentlemen? All the best. Love you, Mike. Thanks, man.

I mean, I don't know. I mean, a journey through John Jones's mind would be a pretty fascinating trip. but I don't know there are a lot of injuries and if John doesn't want to fight then if he just wants to build his body and he wants to do it the right way then who are we to judge you know

the sport like we we talk about John but I don't know I think the majority and part of me kind of feels the same way like I've tried to be positive and optimistic about it but I think I know A.Ks talked about this

and I think a lot of us here probably feel the same way at this point. John Jones coming back and fighting is this is the cherry on top of the Sunday. Like I don't, I'm getting to the point where I need to, like, I'm not going to believe it till he's in the octagon. I'm still trying, just from conversations that I've had with people behind the scenes. Like, I feel like we're heading in the right direction more than we have been in the last

couple of years. But we're getting there. We're getting to that Nick, sort of Nick Diaz territory where, every few months we get a rumor about Nick Diaz coming back and fighting somebody and then even to the point where we get a fight on the books and then it just doesn't happen. So I have at least prepared myself for a world without John Jones. But like I said earlier, if Francis, you know, from a physical or a physical or from a business standpoint, can't fight March 4th, then John needs to fight March 4th against anybody.

I don't care who it is. what blades gone pavlovich even if you want to do like a tie to vass I don't care but he needs to fight on that card if francis can't but we'll see what happens there all right absoa take us home real quick because I gotta go what's up Mike

how we doing all right so I have just two questions to ask you quickly I'll make it quick the first question is I have is what's next for Vicente Likwe because you know he's a bit of a tight spot right now the Walterway division.

And my second question is, what's next for Hamza? Is his bout with Covington still possible? Or is he planning to make a move up to middleweight and possibly fight maybe Jared Cadnear, Whitaker? Thanks, man. Have a good day. No clue with Hamzat.

He's a big mystery right now. I've been very vocal. I want the Covington fight. I think that makes all the sons in the world. And that's just a massive fight. And guess what? we talked about March 4th. We talked about how

the fights that have been targeted at least rumored to be on that card, the two title fights. One seems like it's definitely not happening. The Sterling Sehudo fight, if that's direction they're going. And even Inganu's head coach said March

4th seems 50-50 for Ngano versus John Jones. So if you can't get John or Inganu or anything else, like Colby Humzat Colby would be That's a main event Fight for sure

That's gonna put asses and seats For sure So that could be an option as well They're gonna have to make some kind of decision soon Because it's January 12th That card is March 4th And we have nothing In terms of main events, co-main event

Title fights, etc. We have nothing Nothing on the books Maybe by next Saturday when 283 happens. Maybe we'll get some sort of news, but who the hell knows at this point? To answer the Volk question, dude, Volk...

Mokachev-Volknoffs rules. That fight's going to be super fun. I do think Machchov's going to win, but it would not surprise me if Volk won. Luke, dude, give me Kevin Holland, when he's ready to come back. That's a fun-ass fight. Yeah, it'll be somebody like that.

Fringstaff 15 guys, somebody on the come-up, someone in that realm, perhaps, I don't know. Him and Semelsberg would be fun after watching the Jake Matthews fight. So, yeah, a lot of fun options for Luke A, but probably needs to take a little bit of a step back. So, all right, we are done. I've got to get this all up on the podcast network because 1230 Eastern, about an hour and 12 minutes from right now as you're hearing me live,

BTL. We'll talk about some of the stuff we talked about here, a little more in depth. Myself and Jed Mishu doing a little talking head show. A lot of people seem to like that format, so we're going to keep doing it for a little while. So join us then. Live on the M.A. Fighting YouTube channel,

we'll be back on this show tomorrow, 10 a.m. Eastern. We'll do it again. We got weigh-ins tomorrow because the UFC is back on Saturday. So it seems like things are somewhat getting back to normal. It is a fight week. But we can't forget about the big news and what has gone out with this whole thing. So I appreciate you guys checking out the program. See you tomorrow morning.

Appreciate you. Have a great rest of the day. And as always, have a heck of a morning, everybody. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.