MMA Fighting - Jake Paul On His Boxing Hit List, Expectations For Tyron Woodley, Getting In Dana White's Head

Episode Date: August 17, 2021

Jake Paul talks to MMA Fighting and previews his upcoming fight against Tyron Woodley and what he's expecting out of the former UFC champion, Paul will also address his recent "hit list," which including names like Conor McGregor, Kamaru Usman and even his brother Logan Paul as well as his constant battle with UFC president Dana White over complaints against fighter pay in MMA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Damon Martin MMA fighting here with one of the biggest combat sports superstars. He is about to headline a pay-per-view coming up here in Ohio in Cleveland, August 29th, against former UFC champion Tyron Woodley. I welcome in today. Jake, Paul. Jake, how are you? Let's go, baby.

I'm good. I'm good, man. Living my best life. How excited are you to hear that, man? Obviously, this is such a big moment for you for the fight, but also to do it in your hometown. I mean, when they said they were coming to Ohio. I got excited. I live in Columbus, so it's a two-hour drive for me.

I'm excited to come to the fight. But, like, how excited were you for that aspect to do this in front of your hometown? Bro, this is a dream come true. It's honestly a surreal moment. It doesn't even make sense. I don't know how I got here, but I'm so excited to bring this one home. It's going to be a Cleveland affair. And now it's the fun part, man.

I've been going through, you know, the hard, hard training camp. and this is the fun part. We're getting closer and closer a couple days away now, and I'm excited to put on a show in front of my friends and family. Absolutely. Let me make a confession to you, Jake, because when you first debuted, you know, I was one of the people who said, come on, this isn't serious, right? Like, this guy is a YouTube celebrity, you know, social influencer.

Like, you know, this is a gimmick, right? Like, this is just a gimmick. And then you won, and then you obviously demolished Nate Robinson. I'm like, okay, maybe this is very. real and then you fought Ben Ascran and you knocked him out, you know, harder than, you know, I mean, the way he got knocked out was insane in that fight. And I said, and I started seeing your training footage. I was like, you know what? Jake's taking this seriously. Like, this isn't a gimmick to him. This isn't just to, you know, become a celebrity. He's already a celebrity.

But this is real. And it feels like you are converting more and more people to believe that you are taking this very seriously. 100%, man. And I understand, you know, there was a lot of critics at first and people like yourself who, you know, didn't, were unsure. And that's, that's, that's, that's totally okay. And my goal has just been to earn people's respect and show people how hard I'm working because I take this more seriously, honestly, than a lot of pro fighters. You know, I have a chip on my shoulder. I have a lot to prove.

And I fell in love with the sport and I want to go super, super far. And the only way to do that is hard work and experience and inspiring and in the gym. and fighting tougher and tougher opponents each time. But yeah, man, like, this is my life now. I don't even remember really what my life was like before boxing. It's been like two years straight of this, and I wouldn't change it for anything. You also deal with a different kind of pressure

than the average, you know, 3-0 fighter deals with. You know, you put out a tweet the other day about Canelo Alvarez, this fourth opponent, you had no fights, and he retired basically afterwards. I did a little research on that, and I found out today, and I didn't know this just because I wasn't aware of how far it went. But Canello didn't fight an opponent with a winning record until his 13th professional fight. 13 pro fights where he got to a guy with a winning record. Everyone else was 1, 0 and 2, 0 and 3, or those kind of things.

I mean, you deal with a different kind of pressure. Like, have you – it seems like you embrace it, but we got to be honest. Like, this is not what a normal 3-0 fighter would be doing. No, 100%, man. Like most pro boxers build up their records. Their promoters build up their records. They throw them in there with tomato cans. So they get A experience and they get knockouts.

So it looks good on their record. And by the way, no one's really watching those early fights. You know, they're not selling tons of pay-per-view. The critics aren't there to judge them. They're just letting them do their thing. But with me, it's all eyes on since day one. and I'm being treated like a world champion, you know, with the pressure and who people want me to fight. And I embrace it, you know, but, you know, I somewhat agree.

Like, I want to continue to fight harder and harder people each time. And I want to make my fights bigger and bigger each time. So, yeah, it's a little bit different of a journey. And I'm definitely being held to a higher. standard, but I think that's helped me become a better fighter because I feel as if I have to live up to that higher standard. Absolutely. Because you're Jake Paul, every time you fight, no matter who you fight, there's going to be a certain percentage of people watching. But we have to be honest here, you know, fighting Ben Ascran, that was a big deal. Ben Ascran's a big name in the sport.

He had talked a lot of trash. Obviously, you know, we know his following from MMA. Tyron Woodley is a former UFC champion. Guys got knockout power. Legit as they come, four-time defending Welterweight champion, arguably one of the greatest welterweight champions in the history. mixed martial arts. And we just saw what Anderson Silva did to Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. For people saying, well, he's MMAs is not boxing, look what Anderson Silva just he dismantled Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., former champion in his, I think, his second or third pro bout, and he hadn't had a pro bout in whatever was, like 20 years or whatever it was,

and Anderson just picked him apart and won that fight. This is a legitimately dangerous fight for you, Jake, and Tyron Woodley is as legit as they come. Like, do you feel like, I don't know, I feel like people are starting to come around to understand this though like this is not an easy fight for you and this is by far your toughest challenge a hundred percent and i know that and that's why august twenty ninth i have to be super super sharp and people forget that you know boxing is the first form of martial arts when the bell rings and m mma they're both it's two guys standing on their feet so it's a skill that tyrant's been practicing way longer than i have however

I believe in my ability. I believe in my skill and just my natural talents. You know, you're either, you're either born with speed and knockout power or you're not. And I just so happen to have that. And that's why I know no matter what happens or no matter how good Tyrone is on August 29th, I'm going to, I'm going to still go in there and get the W. But, yeah, he is serious.

And, you know, we've taken him more serious than any. opponent thus far. Let me ask you a question, Jake. Going into this, I mean, obviously, you've been honest with how you believe this fight's going to end. You believe it's going to end just like your last three fights. You're going to knock him out of Tyron. But what do you expect out of Tyron? Because as a guy who covered his entire career, I mean, we know he is, you know, legitimately one of the greatest welterweeds of all time, but he's also not been on the greatest run right now. Obviously, he's had some tough losses. Now, he came out, you know, guns firing in his last fight, kudos to Vicente Lucke for catching him and obviously winning that fight. But what do you

expect out of tyrant because there's the tyrant that's come out like he did against Darren Till like a ball of fire looking like he's trying to take his head off and then we've seen the other fights where he just kind of like lays back against the cage doesn't really engage it's kind of a weird performance so what do you expect out of him you know I expect him to start slow and and to try and feel me out and to take me into the later rounds or at least try to and to be on his back foot, moving away, you know, seeing my game plan. So I think you're going to see a less aggressive guy who is going to try to find my mistakes and take the fight into the later rounds because he probably thinks in his head that that will help him because of his experience

or conditioning or I don't know, but I just see that. being how he's fighting, just like sort of backing up. But, you know, I'm a real killer in there. So I'm going to try to hunt him down and get him out of there. Regardless if he's coming forward, you know, he's coming forward. He's going to get walked, walked into shots. If he's on his back foot, I'm a hunter and I can go get him. So I can fight both ways, which is great.

Yeah, absolutely. To that point, you've probably seen, you know, when you got to fight, with Ascran made, immediately people are like, oh, he's fighting a real fighter. This is going to be Jake's downfall. He's fighting a real fighter. Well, obviously that didn't happen. Now people at the beginning said, oh, Tyrant's a legit fighter champion. He's going to get, this is going to be where Jake gets exposed.

But lately, you've seen fighters are turning around on you, Jake. I mean, Gaygard Musassi, the Bellator champion, flat out said, this is not going to be a good night for Tyron Woodley. Mike Tyson, legendary boxer, he's a fan of you. He said, I think this is going to be a bad night for Tyron Woodley. Do you feel like the fight community is starting to come around and become believers in who you are and your skill level, especially going into this fight, because at the beginning it felt like, oh, Tyron's legit. Now it's kind of turned around where there's a lot of people picking Jake Paul to win this fight.

100%, man. And it's amazing to see and, you know, shout out to all the people backing me. You know, there's a lot of negativity, but there's also a lot of fighters who have, you know, showed support and showed love. You know, even Henry Sohudo was like, yo, Tyrone is going to be a bad night for him. So I think people are seeing, you know, the work I'm putting in A, and then B, just my team is, is an incredible team with, you know, 80, 90 years of total boxing experience. And I want it.

I think people can clearly see I want it and I have the natural talent. And when you combine all of those things, I've been super active, you know, on top of my game, not messing around. I think all things considered, you know, that that respect is slowly growing and growing. Do you think if everything goes well for you on the 29th and you add Tyron Woodley to your highlight reel? Will he follow through on the tattoo bet? Do you think he will? We'll see. I have a tattoo artist coming to the fight. So when he loses, I'm sending her tattoo baby.

I'm sending her right into his locker room to get the. a tattoo going because I want no excuses out of him. If he's a man, you know, he's shook on it in front of the world. He has to live up to it. One other thing I want to talk to you about, Jake, you know, in the recent months, you know, you've become a very fierce advocate for fighter pay. And obviously, a lot of people know you've targeted a lot of that at the UFC, and particularly in Dana White.

And I ran a story today. I don't know if you saw, but Stephen Espinoza, your current promoter, had said that, you know, Jake going after Dana White isn't lip service. This isn't publicity. And he's like, the reason I know that is when we were negotiating Jake's undercard for this upcoming fight, he was a fierce advocate to make sure the undercard fighters were getting paid. Amanda Serrano was getting paid. Everyone on this undercar was getting paid. He's like, this is not just Jake doing this for publicity.

He's serious about this. Do you feel like that's also a thing that you are really affecting right now? Like a lot of people are paying attention to your gripes about fighter pay. And it's kind of weird that a boxer is the fiercest advocate for fighter pay in the UFC. you kind of have become the voice of that lately. Yeah, no, man. I mean, it's something I'm, I'm bullish on and something that needs to change. And for my fight while we were building out the undercard, I was like,

we need to make sure that this fight, these fighters, every single person on the card gets paid the most that they've ever gotten paid to fight. I just want to spread, you know, the wealth and be about my words, you know, and put action behind my words and be the change instead of just talking about the change. But, yeah, look, the UFC fighters can't talk about it. They can't advocate for fighter pay because Dana White will just shout them. And, you know, a lot of the times it's the same situation with boxing promoters who sign some of these young stars. lock them up into super long contracts. But I see how hard fighting is. I see how hard these fighters work.

And the fact that it's so skewed versus any other sport, and it's the most dangerous sport out of all of them, there needs to be a change there. And, you know, I'm actually starting to affect Dana White's business. And obviously, Dana talks about you a lot. And you know this he comes up. People like to bring you up to him. And then he goes on like the, I was talking to one of the guys from Triller talking about like when he went on that whole thing about your fight with Ben Ashken.

He went on this huge. He's like, I don't want to talk about this. And then he talked about it for like five minutes straight. Do you feel like in a way you are in Dana White's head at this point? For sure, man. Like he talks about me way more than I talk about him. A lot of times I'll just be minding my business. And then all of a sudden there's like a whole new interview.

that comes out where he's talking about me. So, you know, I'm definitely in his head because before when we were talking, it was kind of, you know, just random back and forth. But now I'm actually, you know, affecting his business. And they don't like that. Those are big wig guys with a lot of power who are very greedy. And they will do anything to get to the top. They have gotten to the top.

they want more. They always want more. That's how these billionaire sharks are. They will kill and eat everyone in their path to put more money into their bank accounts. Yeah. I'm in his head. I'm affecting his pockets and he doesn't like that. I'm curious, Jake, you know, you've put together a phenomenal undercard for your boxing match. I'm curious in the future, you know, as you build more cards for your future fights, would you ever consider hosting a big MMA fight on an undercard of yours? Maybe a big free agent comes available. Maybe because I mean, I know Tyron Woodley, and this is one thing that obviously for all the animosity there's been, Tyron Woodley said openly, I'm getting paid more for this fight than I ever made in any

fight in the UFC, which is in all honestly kind of sad considering he's a four-time champion. You think that guy should have been making boatloads of money as a champion, you know what I mean? But would you ever consider promoting an MMA fight on one of your undercards? For sure. For sure. I think that's the future of fighting. I think it's, you know, maybe mixing MMA and boxing all into one night. You know, I think if you're a fan of boxing, you're probably, you're most likely a fan of MMA. I know there's sort of like some people who are split and like stuck on each side, but, you know, I'm a total fight fan all the way around the board from boxing to MMA, you know, bare anduckle.

So, you know, I definitely see that as a possibility. I think it would be something super dope. And especially because I'm partnered with Showtime and Stephen Espinoza, we can, you know, throw a sick Bellator fight or something. There's lots of ways to get creative there. Yeah. And I know Steve and I talked to him, as I mentioned before, we talked, and he said, listen, they're long-term planning with you.

This isn't a gimmick. This isn't a one-fight deal where they just want to, you know, throw you out there make some money on a pay-per-view. He's like, we are invested in Jake Paul. We want Jake Paul to be invested in us. That's got to feel good, though, that a promoter's big as showtime, Floyd Mayweather's promoter, you know, all these great fighters who have fought for showtime, that they're invested in you, Jake.

Like, they're saying, hey, we've made a long-term investment. We want to be in the Jake Paul business. It means the world, man. And Stephen Espinosa is my dog. Like, he is dope. He took a chance on me. and I hope, you know, that I'm showing them that it's well worth it and all love to the whole Showtime family. They have been amazing. You know, everything from the content team, you know,

to the media people helping out, you know, down to the sea level execs, the creative director. Everyone there is super dope. So I'm excited for a long-term partnership. And, you know, Stephen, I think, knows that and sort of check me like when we first were talking like, hey, like, how serious are you about this, man? I was like, I'm very serious. And I think they see that. And I'm going to bring the numbers. And hopefully it's a long, fruitful relationship.

Absolutely. Right before we spoke, Jake, you put out a message on Instagram with Jake Paul's hit list. So I got to talk to you about this hit list because you got Tyron Woodley up there at the top. Obviously, that's your next fight. You've spoken about Canello before. You always said that's a long-term goal to get to a guy like Canelo-Avers. And you've been honest. You're not saying it's your next fight or even your.

your next fight after that. It's going to be down the road. But you also mentioned some MMA guys I want to throw out there. You mentioned Nate or Nick Diaz, and you mentioned Kamar Usman. Now, that's interesting because I think you, I know you've mentioned Nate before, but Nick is coming back here in September. We know he's got a fightbook with Robbie Lawler, and Kamaro Oussman's a welterweight champ. And Kamaro had made some comments recently saying, hey, I wouldn't doubt myself training against the guy that Canello.

You probably saw those comments he made. So what about those two in particular? I thought those were interesting matchups. I got to be honest, I don't think Dana's going to let either one of them fight you, but, you know those are those are good names that they're out there right yeah no i mean dana might not let them fight but uh they're they're still on the hit list you know i've had beef with nate back and forth over over social media i've uh beat up one of nate's boys in sparring and you know he he just thinks he's this like super tough guy and he i mean he is right

but like not not in this world not when you come into the squared circle it's a whole different sport buddy so they he can get the smoke or his brother or both in one night you know i see the guys that they're fighting their striking ability and you know it's whatever so i have to settle that beef that's really where this comes from and same thing with uh kak kamaro camaro oostman the is he named after the chevi car i don't know But Camaro Oussman, he, he and I have beef too, going back and forth on social media. You know, I forget even how it started. I have beef with way too many people, but he said something about Disney.

And I was like, yo, you went to Disney. And I showed a picture of him, like, smiling like an idiot next to Mickey Mouse. So, you know, all of these guys can get the smoke. And I'm really about it. Like when I say anyone, anytime, any place, I mean. it. So let's get it done. You know, if it's possible, then let's get it done. Yeah. You also had Connor on the list. Now, Connor McGregor's a guy you've been calling out for a long time. I think you did that, like, maybe before your first pro fight, you said you wanted to fight Connor.

But it seemed like at least going into the, when you first announced a Woodley fight, that you kind of lost interest because Connor has, we got to be honest. He's not on a great run right now. He's obviously, I think, you know, one in three in his last four. you know, tough loss to Dustin Porrier, and then the thing was not going well for him before he broke his leg in the second one. Now we've kind of, we've kind of seen Connor come unspooled a little bit. Like, he's just kind of come unhinged after that fight,

taking shots of Daniel Cormier and just kind of going wild. I know you made some comments about that in another interview, but like, are you still interesting in Connor? Do you feel like Connor's got to kind of get back to where Connor was, you know, maybe, you know, going into the Floyd fight for you to be interested in fighting him? Yeah, no, you're, you're right. like he sort of lost that that spunk and i think people are kind of second guessing him

and he's not the same connor that's for sure and so you know it's not as interesting however i would still just like to beat him up because i would want him to freak out in the ring and go crazy and lose his shit i think it'd be funny to see him break down like like how he did against Dustin Porrier. So, you know, and by the way, it's still a massive fight, you know, regardless of anything that people want to say about Connor, you have to respect him for what he's done, becoming, you know, really the face of the fight game. So, you know, I don't, I don't hate the guy.

Do I like him? No. But you have to respect him. All I've said, though, is like, I just want to fight him and knock him out because, A, it would be a big fight, big business. and be like give the people what they want that's that's one of the most talked about fights to happen in the past year so i think it still makes sense regardless of if he's winning or losing uh people will want to see that yeah and you also mentioned ks i of course we know the

history there with your brother and you put logan at the bottom which i had a laugh at because i saw on your instagram he put logan paul the question mark i thought that was funny everyone always loves to ask you about fight Logan. I find it bizarre only because I'm like, you guys are brothers. I have an itchy feeling. People love to kind of exert controversy, but like, I thought that was funny because I would never personally actually seriously ask you

do you want to knock out your brother. I'm sure you guys wrestled and fought each other plenty of his kids. But like, I always find out a weird question. Like, why would you ask him to fight his own brother? You guys are so close. Like, that seems like such a weird thing to me. Yeah, it is. I sort of put it there as a joke. That's why, like, I put Logan Paul

question mark, and I was like, Oh, like, you know, just trolling a bit. But people always ask us that. So it's like, you know, sometimes we lean into it. We're like, yeah, maybe we'll do it. And then other days, like today, I'm just like, we probably won't ever fight. Our parents don't want us to do it. But it is something funny to sort of troll.

And who knows what will happen, man. It's 2021. Anything's possible. Yeah. And I know you mentioned Tommy Fury. A lot of people have. talked about Tommy's on your undercard. Maybe Tommy is the next guy. You get through Tyron. He gets a win. You guys face off. It would be a big fight. And obviously, I'm not knocking Tommy Fury.

I'm just not as familiar with Tommy. You know, I know he's got a big fan base in the UK. He was on a reality show, things like that. Obviously, he's Tyson's half-brother. So I know there's some star power there. But is there something to be said when we talk about, like I mentioned Canello not fighting a guy with a rank with a winning record till his 13th fight? You're about to go to your fourth pro fight. Isn't there something to be said about the star power of your opponents? Like, Tyron is a guy where you can sell a pay-per-view around you fighting Tyrone Woodley. You sold a pay-per-view, a massive pay-per-view, despite what Dana White says, a massive pay-per-view

with Ben Ashgren. Is there something to be said about, yeah, you can fight Tommy Fury. I'm not knocking Tommy Fury, but is there something to be said that if another guy comes available, like let's say a Nick Diaz or a Nate Diaz, that would just be that much bigger, why not fight a guy like that, where you could make huge pay-per-view numbers and fight a tough opponents. No, for sure. And that's sort of the thing I've made fun of Timmy for is,

or is like the only reason people know of you is because of your famous older brother. I didn't even know where you existed. And you have no audience here in the U.S. So, you know, we're sort of still trying to gauge, like, do people even care about that fight? You know, is it a big fight? you know, can he actually fight because he's fought, you know, some guys with losing records. So is he really as good as they claim him to be? So we're still figuring a lot out a lot of things.

And that's why after I knock out Tyrant, it's back to the drawing board with the team to figure out who is, you know, the best next fight. And again, like, I have to have an opponent that can draw pay-per-view number. numbers, you know, I can't take a step back because all eyes are on me. So no, no one want to watch me fight some unknown pro boxer or pro-MMA fighter. You know, I need to sell pay-per-views and people want big star power names. Yeah, I laugh when they say, when are you going to fight a real boxer? And I said, well, there's plenty of O and three, three-and-o boxers you could fight. No one cares about, though. I mean, let's just be honest. We got to be yourself. telling paper views, you're a massive star.

You're serious about your sport. You're serious about your craft. But like I said, you can fight some O&3 bum who has boxing experience. But what does that matter? Like, you know what I mean? Like wouldn't fight, wouldn't fighting Nick Diaz be a much bigger fight and a much tougher opponent? Wouldn't fighting Tyron Woodley be a much tougher fight to a much bigger opponent?

You know what I mean? Exactly, man. And that's why, you know, my career is just different. It's such a unique situation. No fighter in the history of the sport. has sold this many paper views and had this much attention at 3 and 0. So I'm building my career differently, all while still challenging myself and trying to become the biggest prize fighter in the world. Last thing, last thing for I get you out here, Jake, you know, you've said, you've honestly said it, and I know you've embraced it.

You said, I'm a troll. I like to troll people, like to have fun. You like to, you like to irritate people and piss people off and have fun with it. but I mentioned the fighter pay thing, being very serious about that. You also started your new foundation, Boxing Bullies, which I was reading into that, which is awesome. I know you have this online persona, Jake, you do, and you've built that around that, and people love that. But, like, does it matter to you that you've kind of turned people around? I know you're not sitting there saying how I'm a great guy. You've got to love me, but, like, you have done some great things, and you are doing more good in the world, like the fighter pay thing, like your Boxing Bullies Foundation.

Like, do you feel like that's something like that's going to be your legacy at the end of the day? It's not going to be the trolling. It's not going to be, you know, irritating Connor McGregor online. It's even like the chain. Like I know you had the chain with Connor, you know, having fun with it, but then you gave it to Dustin Porre. There's going to be people who are going to benefit. They're going to donate that. They're going to put that off for charity.

And people are going to benefit from that. Like, does that matter to you? Because I know you're not doing it just for the publicity, but it feels like you are doing good in the world. Yeah, no. for sure, man. I think what you said there is legacy. And for me, that's what I'm focused on now,

is making history and doing things that people will remember forever and making and leaving an impact on the world. And that's something that's super important to me. Because even when I did launch my boxing bullies event, you know, that touched my soul. That, you know,

that gave me something. I gave a lot of, of kids, you know, help and boxing gloves and gave them an awesome day and so on and so forth. But, you know, that all came back in a good way to me. So, you know, I believe in, you know, good karma. And that's really all I want to do is make a difference, make a change and inspire kids to chase their dreams and, you know, do good along the way. Absolutely.

Jake, thank you so much for taking the time. I'm not going to spoil anything here, but you're fighting in Cleveland. I'm excited for that. Obviously, I know when you came out, I think it was the pressure you had MGK plan. Tell me you got something cool plan for Cleveland. You do. You got to have something cool plan for your intro at Cleveland, right? I got something, baby.

You already know. And my fight shorts, people are never going to see anything like it. It's one of a kind. People are going to try and copy it for years to come. So just remember who did it first. Absolutely. Jake, thank you so much for taking time. Have a good rest of your turn.

training camp. Obviously safe travels back up here to Ohio for the fight. Can I always see you live in person on the 20 minds man. And again, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. Yes, sir. Have a good day, man. Appreciate it. You too. Bye-bye. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.