MMA Fighting - Jon Anik: Kamaru Usman 'Absolutely Not' Overlooking Leon Edwards At UFC 278

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

UFC lead commentator Jon Anik sits down with MMA Fighting's Mike Heck to preview Saturday's UFC 278 event, talks the main event between Kamaru Usman and Leon Edwards, the co-main between Paulo Costa and the returning Luke Rockhold, José Aldo vs. Merab Dvalishvili, Alexandr Romanov's ceiling, Shane Burgos signing with the PFL, Rory MacDonald announcing his retirement, what it meant to get the ABC gold jacket, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, UFC 278 is just around the corner, welterweight title on the line in the main event, some fights with very high stakes and a lot more. in Salt Lake City, Utah, which is where my guest at this time joins us. We're not able to do this for UFC 277, but it's always great to reunite with the great John Anick. We'll be calling the action this Saturday alongside Daniel Cormier and Joe Rogan. John, how are you, sir? It's good to be with you, Michael. I'm always doing well.

I'm always happy to get the chance to chop it up with you in advance of the paper view. I just got to Salt Lake City, Utah. Fighter meetings are tomorrow morning. So as you know, sometimes we talk after the fact. And obviously you can pick my brain on some of those insights. But just excited to sit down with all of these athletes, Luke Rockhold especially, because even though he's been omnipresent on social media, I want to look him in his eyes and see exactly where he is at,

you know, coming back for the first time in three and a half years. So yeah, man, nothing like a pay-per-view week. We're ready to go. So let's start at the main event. We got Kamara Uspen defending the title finally against Leon Edwards. It seemed like he's been waiting forever for a title shot. Now, normally, as you know, we begin these conversations ahead of a pay-per-view most notably talking about the main event where fans, viewers of the product are not giving one of the athletes any chance to win at all.

This one, John, seems different because I do host a morning show for MMA fighting and a lot of people that have called into the show, a lot of people who have hit me up on social media. They feel like Leon Edwards doesn't just have a chance in this fight, but he's a very good chance of beating Kamara who's been on Saturday, which I have to admit is a little stunning, honestly. Have you noticed this trend as well? I haven't noticed it from the fellow fighters. And before I came on with you, I just happen to see a post from Bilal Muhammad, who seemingly doesn't think that Leon Edwards has very many ways to win. And by the way,

he's been in the octagon with Leon Edwards before. But I have seen a little bit of a groundswell, at least from the fan base in terms of some public support for Leon Edwards. And certainly after spending some time with Leon, as I did a couple of months ago at the press conference, you know, I feel better about his chances now than I did maybe two months ago. If for no other reason, then he's absolutely huge. You know, I mean, he really does have size.

He has length. His hands aren't quite as big as Kamar Usman's, and sometimes hand size can be pretty telling. But I'm excited to see what Leon can do with the opportunity. I mean, certainly he has evolved to an appreciable extent. He seems to have maximized himself over the last seven years since that first meeting. Sometimes you just don't know until they get in there. And I do think it's a reach to suggest that he's getting Kamar Usman at this great time

when Kamar's body is seemingly breaking down. and I don't necessarily see it that way. But I think anything that can maybe give you a source of confidence on the Edward's side, you need to lead into. But I'm excited to see it play out. And I think familiarity is certainly a big part of the backdrop, knowing that these guys have shared 15 minutes together. The seasoning of Usman has been brought up a little bit.

But the guy's been one of the more active champions. It's his first fight of the year. Leon's been out for well over a year now since the Nate fight. But he's been pretty much focused on Usman. ever since the win over Nate Diaz. And on the flip side, the point a lot of people keep trying to make is, Usman's got a lot going on right now.

He just landed a big movie role. He's talking about boxing Canelo Alvarez. He's talking about moving up to 205. And you've spoken to the man many times during this incredible run that he's on. From maybe some of the interviews that he's done leading into the fight, do you get any vibe at all from the champion

in any way that perhaps he's looking past Leon Edwards here? Because if there's one guy, I don't feel looks past anybody, it's Kamar Usman. Yeah, no, I mean, you set it up well and it's a fair question, but absolutely not. You know, Kamar Usman is like the last guy on the roster that's going to rest on any Laurel. And as we set up the pay-per-view at UFC 277, when talking about Amanda Nunes, even if you

don't like the conversation of goat, greatest of all time, Kamar Usman puts a big chunk of his legacy on the line every time he competes, whether he's fighting Leon Edwards or Jan Bojovic or anybody else. So if all of a sudden he wakes up Sunday morning and he hasn't tied Anderson Silva's record and he's 15 and one in the UFC and he's the former Welchewa champion, a lot of what he's building goes away. Now, his future in the Hall of Fame, that is entrenched, you know, nobody can take away big chunks of this legacy. But what Camaro Usman is chasing is all-time greatness. And, you know, going one and one against Leon Edwards is certainly not going to help that. Now, on the Leon side, like, has he put in the perfect training camp?

can he have the near perfect performance? I think the answer to those questions is maybe yes, but I think it's going to take those things. I don't think he's fighting a lesser Kamar Usman or Kamar Usman that has a wandering eye relative to past title defenses. I think you're going to see the very best of Kamar Usman and in theory, the best of Leon Edwards, and may the better man win?

What do you think about Usman maybe going up to 205? I understand he's not going up to 185 because Adasania is currently the champion, but what do you make of this talk? Are you surprised by it? Or does that not stun you at all? I'm not surprised by it because Max Holloway has told me for years that he wants to fight at middleweight before his career said and done. You know, Domina Cruz has long said to me that he wants to compete at 155 pounds, right? So these guys do sort of fantasize about moving up and not cutting weight.

And, you know, sometimes I feel like wrongfully, Januhovic has been positioned as this like low hanging fruit. You know, Israel-A-Sania didn't even have any intention at that time to move up to light heavyweight. it seemed to be Eugene Barman's idea, and that was the impetus for the move. But obviously they thought that that was a favorable matchup and a guy at 205 pounds that they could beat. I don't know how Kumar Usman sees Glover Tashara and Yuri Prohazka compared to Jan Boehovic. But I don't think it's posturing. I think it's another way to prove his greatness. And obviously there's a little bit of an obstacle there in his friend.

Is he at 185 pounds? So I would like to see Kumar Usman, you know, afforded any sort of opportunity that is legacy proving, whether it's against Canelo Alvarez, even though people don't want to hear that noise, or Jan Boehovic, because if he beats Leon Edwards and is able to knock him out and finish him, finish him this weekend, yeah, Chimae can get by Nate Diaz, there are names that are building Bilal, Gilbert Burns, potentially work his way back. But, you know, Kamar's going to want an immediate challenge, and I'm not sure there's an obvious one right now at seven. What if Leon does get this done? Because in most divisions, this is guaranteed automatic rematch,

no doubt about it. But as you mentioned, we have a star lurking in the back. background in Hamzat Shemayef is getting ready to fight Nate Diaz, September 10th. Still, I mean, it's an interesting situation of 170. It'd be kind of wrong if Usman didn't get an immediate rematch. But when you have a guy like Hamzad who was just bursting onto the scene, big numbers, a lot of people have eyeballs on that guy. It does create a discussion, does it not? Absolutely.

And when it comes to an immediate rematch, you have to have a champion that is burning to get that one back like you had with Amanda Nunes against Juliana Pena. You know, certainly Pena went into that first meeting knowing she was going to have to beat her twice. But I do think absolutely, no matter how Leon Edwards were to beat Kamar Usman, that Kamarro probably has rematch language in the contract and absolutely would want to try to get that one back. Now, the calendar, you're right, does sort of align here with Hamzaa Chimaya and Nate Diaz competing here in a main event at UFC 279 in three or four weeks or so. So perhaps they would wait, let that result marinate. And if indeed it is Chimayev who emerges, maybe you try for a fourth time to make a lot of, Leon Edwards versus Hamza Chimayev.

Of course, these are all hypotheticals, but what Kumar Usman has done, dating to his UFC debut against Haider Hassan, when Brian Stan pulled me aside and said, that dude's going to be a future champion. We knew that night, bro. Like, I didn't know as much as Stan knew, but we knew that night in 2015 that we were looking at someone special. And I think if he loses to Leon Edwards, they run this thing back and probably in short order. And for Usman, and Dana White said this on Tuesday, if Usman wins this fight, it's time to

undoubtedly start throwing him essentially in these Mount Rushmore types of conversations with the Anderson Silvas. I don't know how if he's definitely getting closer to George St. Pierre. I don't know if this will quite get him there. But what do you think another win on Saturday does for the legacy of Kamar Usman? You mentioned all time greatness and what he's building towards how close does he get to being the best welterweight in the world, the best fighter of all time? Well, it's very difficult when the guy you are perennially chasing is George St. Pierre. And even when he broke his welterweight record. seemingly that wasn't enough for people that want to see more title defenses. I don't have to tell you that Kumar Usman is coming up on title defense number six,

right? So this isn't the case two or three years ago where he's at three title defenses, right? We're talking about six defenses, which I believe will be three more than Habibn Mungnermagov. So as the title defenses start to mount up, that's always been sort of category number one for me. I've said to you, if they hung championship banners now in Aberkirk in New Mexico, John Jones would have 15 freaking banners, you know. So that's got to be something that is injected into the conversation. But as those continue to mount up for Kamar Usman, I have no problem putting him on Mount Rushmore. Again, it's a weird conversation to have when legacies are still incomplete, right? You know, imagine Amanda Nunes loses twice to Julianna Pena. Is she still the greatest

women's mixed martial arts athlete of all time? I'm not so sure. But certainly for me, because my career has sort of coincided with Kumaruz more than it did George St. Pierre's, this is the best fighter next to John Jones that I've ever covered for sure. Co-made event, which by the time we get to Saturday, I feel like this will have that Sean Strickland, Alex Pereira juice to it. It'll be like the most anticipated fight on the card. Luke Rockhold, as you mentioned, former middleweight champions back for the first time at a little over three years to face the always headline grabbing, always interesting Paulo Costa. There's already heat on this one, John, but that heat will likely expand as this week progresses,

I would assume. There's so much pressure on both of these. athlete's big picture. I mean, I know Luke Rock holds 37, so for him, the time has really got to be now, even though he's the guy, unlike Palo Costa, who has the undisputed UFC middleweight championship belt on the mantle at home. But this is very interesting because both guys have lost two consecutive fights. And I think you can argue that Palo Costa has underachieved a little bit relative to the expectations coming in. And even though, again, he's just getting going in a lot respects when it comes to his UFC career, the championship performance against Adasania was very underwhelming. And obviously, the follow-up act to that against Marvin Vittori wasn't

great either. So I think there's an avalanche pressure on Marvin Vittori here as the more primed, in theory, primal athlete right now to get the job done and prove, you know, that he's somebody that they can really count on to carry the torch for Brazil and for this middleweight division. On the Rockhold side, again, I'm going to be able to glean something from him, I think, on Thursday. You know, I don't really know what we're getting. Social media is an indicator and clearly the hay is in the barn. A lot of hard work has been done on the strength and conditioning side. You see in terms of Rockhold's physical recovery, he has put a lot of resources and finances

into making sure that he is ready to go. Some people tell you chin's never recover, right? I don't know that that's necessarily the case. But where is Luke Rockhold's chin and what is his ability to take a shot from Palo Costa? I think that's the rub for a lot of people in this fight. if Luke Rockhold can take a shot or two and work his game, potentially create some grappling transitions, you know how good he is on top with his ground and pound. We'll see. But I just don't know where Rockhold is at mentally, and I don't know where his chin is at physically. And I guess I just feel like

there are far more variables on the Rockhold side. And that's why, you know, he's plus 250 or so as the betting underdog this weekend. But yeah, I mean, I can't wait for that fight. And I do think you're right. You make a salient point about fan anticipation building as we get to Saturday night. one variable that I think might be on Luke Rockhold's side is timing because even though he's been out for so long, this division is in an interesting place with Adasania getting ready to fight prayer at UFC 281 in November. But Adasani has fought and beat most of the guys in this division, Costa included, some guys he's beaten twice already. Could we be living in the world in the year of our Lord 2022 that Luke Rockhold could find his way into a title fight with an impressive showing after three years away and coming in on back-to-back, bosses? Yeah, it's a great question and there's no doubt about it. I mean, certainly

Adasanya has business to attend to against Alex Padeta and it's not out of the realm of possibility that those guys now would fight twice in a row if Alex is able to get him. So there are a lot of different sort of balls in the air, but absolutely. I mean, you know Izzy to be a champion that wants the stiffest challenges, right? And two names that you know he wants on his resume on his Wikipedia page with green stripes, Darren Till, whose name he has injected into the mix every chance he gets. And Luke Rockhold as a former undisputed champion and a guy in Luke Rockhold who a lot of us put on a pedestal and who a lot of us projected to become one of the greatest middleweight champions of all time, didn't defend the belt successfully a singular time. But in terms of the

potential for greatness, you know, I think some people would argue it's still ingrained within Luke Rockhold and that would absolutely be an appetizing fight, not just promotionally, but for the champion as well. So yeah, it's all in front of Luke Rockhold. I mean, it's all in front of both guys, But yes, if Luke Rockhole comes out, finishes Palo Costa this weekend, he can lay back in the cut and potentially wait for a title shot. Absolutely. Marshall's buyers travel far and wide, hustling for great deals on amazing gifts.

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What a stunner that is. Marab de Walsh, Willie, finally gets his big name. He'll face Jose Aldo, who has looked sensational lately. In my opinion, Jose Alde Alde should be fighting for the title, but Aldo Ever the Gamer

steps back a little bit, puts his potential top rocker at 135 on the line against just a bad, bad man and the machine Marab Du Walsh, really, knowing you, this is probably the one you have circled multiple times on your fight card? Yeah, and a lot of that has to do with my friendship with Ray Longo. I know how bad he wants it for May Robdwalish Willie, but you're right on Jose Alto, right? I mean, his last loss was against Piotrion for the vacant Bannamweight title.

He's reeled off three consecutive wins. And by the way, he got the Yon fight coming off a controversial loss to Marlon. So I agree. Like, I thought you didn't even have to do Sterling versus Aldo. It would be Aljo versus Aldo. It build itself, but obviously T.J. Dillashah, I think it is worthy as well. I'm interested in the betting line here. I'm a little bit surprised that Marab Dwalis Willie is a slight favorite. I understand he's the younger fighter, in theory, the fresher

fighter. He's a machine, no pun intended. He's won seven straight fights. But I thought Jose Aal would be the favorite here, just given the recent body of work, given how good he's looked at 135 pounds, and just given the wealth of championship experience. You know, Meraab hasn't had a chance to headline for the UFC yet. I think that is an eventuality. But, you know, his strength of schedule does not compare to Jose Aldo's. And knowing how good Aldo's take down defense is, you know my Rob is willing and able and will be committed to that initiative. But I'm not sure it's going to be so easy to take him down.

So I can't wait to see a play out. It's certainly a title eliminator. And, you know, given what happened with Cheeto Verra and Dominic Cruz just last weekend, this is definitely moving month for the Bannamweight Division and a lot at stake for these two gentlemen coming up here in a few days. Yeah, because like if Aldo wins, and like you mentioned, we just saw, Cheeto with a big win. Who knows what's going on with Henry Suhudo at this point.

And then we got Jan and Sean O'Malley coming up in Abu Dhabi in October. There's some biggies in this division coming up over the next couple of months. But if Aldo wins, like this man can't be denied any longer, can he? And obviously, if Arab wins, things could get pretty interesting with his good friend and teammate Al Jaldemand Sterling currently holding the title. So what do you think specifically is at stake here? Well, it looks like the UFC might be returning to Brazil in January. and if that is indeed the case, you know,

that could certainly work out well for Jose Aldo if you know what I'm getting at there. But, you know, in terms of his undeniability, he was given a title fight off of a loss, right? And I think that tells you all you need to know about his promotional standing and just his standing within the sport that nobody really batted an eye

when he was given that opportunity coming off a loss. But yes, if you are able to beat May Rob, which nobody really has been able to do. I mean, Frankie Signs got him in the UFC debut. I thought that fight could have gone the other way. And then, of course, the Ricky Simone fight in Marab's second fight. I mean, Twalaswilly started 0 and 2 in the UFC. He's now seven and two. So he is somewhat the boogeyman of this division. I mean, I wouldn't say he's the boogeyman quite like Hamzaa Chimayev was going

into the Gilbert Burns fight. But May Rob is an avoided guy. And if Jose Aldo can stuff his takedowns and beat him over hard 15 minutes, I think that would be a very enticing guy for the promotion to look at for a title shot at 135 minutes. We're also getting the return of a guy I already have in my top 10 at heavyweight worldwide in our rankings. Alexander Romanov taking on Marchine Taibora. Toughest tests of Romanoff's career to this point. But I think this guy is a gigantic problem. And at 31 years old in this division, John, he might as well be 22.

Yeah. And, you know, he said that he wants to be in the top five by the end of 2022. And at least this fight against somebody that's ranked above him is going to afford him the opportunity to maybe work his way into the top 10. I think Tobora comes in number 11 this weekend. if I'm not mistaken. But yes, I'm bullish on Alexander Romanov as well. And certainly the Tom Aspinall injury is unfortunate, right?

And that all of a sudden takes away a young name for the better part of a year that might have been somebody that showed up in the crosshairs for Alexander Romanov. But this guy can beat you in a number of different ways. He's an outstanding wrestler. Certainly knows his way around a submission. He was the biggest betting favorite in UFC history going into his last fight against Chase Sherman. That is obviously not the case against Tibora, who is credentialed.

He's main evented for the UFC. He has fought a who's who of this UFC heavyweight division. So, yeah, I mean, sounds trite, sounds like promotional hype, but I think it's like the perfect test for Alexander Romanov at this days of his career. And if he does pass it, I'm not so sure he's going to be able to work his way into the top five by the end of the year, but he's going to get somebody in that top eight and, you know, maybe a Rosenstrike type guy and then we'll see what he can do with it. But first order of business, obviously a very talented Polish heavyweight in Tabor this weekend.

You'll ask things the undercard is a lot of fighters on it that are making like their second appearance. Some, some have had a fight in the, in a UFC, in an arena in front of fans. Some haven't. Some, it's been a long time since they have. And while it may not be what 276 was on paper, this does provide a lot of opportunity for some of these up-and-comers to really make a name for themselves on a pay-per-view card, some fighting on ESPN, ABC, etc. It's a big chance for these guys and gals to show out. And it's a good point and it's a good point to bring to the surface because candidly, I can't say it's like a 51% majority or an 80% majority, but the majority of our athletes compete better with a crowd. Like I think Domina Cruz was buoyed by that crowd and that

helped him compete really well early on in that fight a week ago, juxtaposed against fighting Henry Suhudo with nobody in an empty arena in Jacksonville or competing against Casey Kennedy at a UFC Apex, you know. So it's a very exciting time for a lot of these athletes, you know, to get outside of the apex. You know, Alexander Romanov has competed five straight times in Las Vegas. It'll be nice for him to, you know, get all the pageantry that comes with a pay-per-view fight or maybe a featured prelim fight, but a big fight for him. So yeah, it's exciting. And for me, it's weird going back to the apex at this point in time because I don't use the crowd as a crutch. But when you get a little taste of that and then you go back to what we've been dealing with over the last three years. You want no part of it. You know, so yeah, I'm excited. I, you know, I love the flyweight. So I got my eyes on Amir Albaughi and Francisco

Figuero. They can be very early on in the night. You know, we'll see what Leo Santos has for Jared Gordon. Leo Santos is like my age, not quite, but 42 years of age. So I always root for the old guys a little bit. But yeah, man, you know, even a card like this that, you know, doesn't scream like card of the year death one through 13. There's a lot of meat on the bone if you sort of peel it back. Roy McDonald and Nina Nunes have announced their retirements since this past Saturday. Of course, Rory, a former UFC title challenger, been in some crazy fights with the promotion. I think the Robbie Lawler one just jumps to everybody's mind as one of the all-time memorable

bouts and the history of the promotion. So just want to get your reaction on both of those fighters turning the page and calling it a career. Well, for Nina Nunez, it seemed like this was very much planned. I mean, she wants more babies, but she wanted to go out with a win. and it took her a little bit of time to do that. Obviously, the fight with Cynthia Calvia was delayed a little bit. But now to be able to go out with a win and share that moment with her daughter, just very special.

I mean, you could see Amanda literally trying to get their daughter in the Octagon at all cost because she knew this was going to be the last time for them to do that. As far as Roy McDonald is concerned, you know, Canadian or otherwise, this guy is a mixed martial arts legend, you know, and thankfully for his legacy, he was able to leave the UFC and go at a world title. Maybe you can argue the PFL body of work was a little bit underwhel. But yes, I mean, he will find his way into the fight wing of the Hall of Fame, courtesy of that absolutely epic war with Robbie Lawler, UFC 189, which by the way, he was winning. But Rory's a stud, man, you know, and Kenny Florian said on our podcast this week, you know, we're sort of now in the third iteration or the third generation of these mixed martial arts athletes who are coming into the sport and training in all disciplines.

And for a lot of us, Rory was that guy, that young guy who came in at 18 years old, who was mixing all the martial arts. In some respects, he was the first of his kind. And he was so kind, too. I remember going to TriStar back in the day. And he was just always so gracious and certainly a little bit, you know, understated and underspoken. But it's nice to see him sort of now at 33, come into his own, be a little bit more verbal with the masses. And I think as Tim Kennedy eloquently put it on social media, you know, Rory's going to contribute to society. We just have to see how he's going to do it. But I tip my cap to Rory McDonald and Nina Nunes on the way out. We've had a lot of A lot of high profile fighter retirements of late Carlos Condit.

You're right. All. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. All too. Forgot about that one. This isn't a retirement, but Shane Burgos has moved on.

He signed with the PFL where now Kenny Florian will get the chance to call his fights. Again, a guy that was part of many great battles. The Billy Q fight is just so underappreciated since it had to follow. Justin Gagey versus Michael Chandler and MSG. What did you think when you saw that news? Well, I was surprised because I thought that maybe you have. UFC president, Dana White had intimated that Burgos was a guy that they were going to try to resign. And I don't know the extent to which they really tried.

But he's not just an entertainer. You know, he sells tickets in New York, has proven to do that. I think seven of his UFC fights have happened in New York. And when I asked him at our last fighter meeting, dude, like, with respect, how do you keep getting these home state showcases? And he looked me in the eye and he said, I sell tickets, you know? So I definitely think that it's a great signing for them. We're disappointed to lose him, obviously. but I'm thankful to have had the chance to call a lot of his most epic fights and wins in the UFC.

And I'm excited to see his brother Ryan, who is coming up right now, who I think has the potential to be maybe even better in terms of his championship ceiling than Shane, if I can even say that. So yeah, I'm happy for Shane. And I would imagine he's realized a lot of money to be leaving the UFC at the stage of his career. So congratulations to Shane and the Burgos family, his wife and his daughters and everybody else. Well, said, one last thing I have to ask you, because I have to ask you. I haven't had a chance to talk to you about it since it happened.

UFC Long Island, you got the gold jacket. You got the ABC coat, man. I was so happy when I saw that video. And then as I'm watching the card throughout the broadcast, you see your broadcast partners. Maybe it's a little sweaty in there. They take them off. But you did not take that jacket off for one second, John Anick. And I love that about you.

I love that about you. What did that mean to you when you were gifted that jacket, when it was unveiled to you, and just being able to look at that jacket. that as much as possible. Well, first of all, and thank you for bringing it up. The jacket is off to my tailor, Mark Russell. So the next time you see me wear it, I promise you it will actually fit because I got off the air and I had more mentions on social media than ever before after an event. And I was like, oh, no, what did I say? You know, and it was just people telling me that my jacket didn't fit. But this was so much less about me and a win for mixed martial arts.

The reason why I fought this battle with ESPN, and some of your listeners and viewers may not know that I did try to get this done, right, with our chief ESPN MMA head, Glenn Jacobs. But, you know, they trotted out the Monday night football guys with the retro ABC jackets. And I'm sitting here thinking, all right, the UFC's been on ABC. You know, what do we need to do as a sport to get that shine, to get that rub? You know, say what you want about where we are domestically as far as mainstream sports. I don't necessarily care about how one opinion differs from another on that. But can we actually get the ABC gold jacket treatment as the UFC?

see. I wanted an answer to that question. And thankfully, our guy Glenn got it done. And to me, it just speaks to how far we have come in the United States. And the Fox deal deserves a lot of credit. The ESPN deal obviously deserves a lot of credit. But again, I was a guy who was in Bristol, Connecticut, fighting for ESPN or fighting for MMA in 2007, when people just didn't want to hear it, you know. So 15 years later to see us on ABC wearing gold jackets, I don't know. Like it feels like a big one. Yeah. One of my moments of the year for sure. seeing the unveiling, even seeing like Megan O'Leavy rocking the jacket. Like it was just so cool, man.

Like, I was so happy to see that. And much deserved. You fought the good fight. You got the victory. We don't get them that often, but this is a good one for you, my man. This is awesome. No, we'll take it. We'll take it.

And we'll see if we trot them out again. I'm not sure if we're going to get the chance to wear them again. But mine will be a lot more snug of that, I can assure you. There you go. John, you're the man. Much appreciated as always. Looking forward to the call, as always. And have fun.

Have fun on Saturday night. Should be a fun one. Thank you, buddy. Once the prep's done, I always have fun. Little anxious right now, wrapping my head around the prep. But thank you, buddy. Good to catch up. And we'll talk in advance of 279, I'm sure. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.