MMA Fighting - Jon Jones vs. Tom Aspinall Feud: Who's Right and Who's Wrong?

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

Two men who hold championship belts in the UFC's heavyweight division have been going back-and-forth on social media. Jon Jones and Tom Aspinall are stating their cases, but which fighter is right, and which one is wrong? Moderator Mike Heck is joined by Eric Jackman, representing Jones, and Jed Meshew, who is representing Aspinall, as they explain why their fighter is correct in the situation, what they could be doing differently, the UFC not getting any blame for some reason, and offering up their honest opinions about the situation. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Eric Jackman: @NewYorkRic Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine, available now, only from Audible.

What's going on, everybody? Mike here from MMAfighting.com, and today we're doing something a little bit different. Welcome to the name to be determined later. But today we're going to call it the MMA Fighting Melting Pot. were a topic that is divided the MMA world and we have two individuals who are going to make

their best cases on which side is correct, which one is incorrect. And you, the listeners, you will have the power to decide whose case holds more water, so to speak. So you are the jury. And today's topic, John Jones versus Tom Aspinall. We have the champ versus the interim champ. These men have been going

back and forth on social media. Both have made their points. In some cases, The points are still going on, but that's neither here nor there. But let's figure out who is more right, who is more wrong with the help of two of our wonderful colleagues here at M.AFling.com. First, representing Tommy Aspenol. And he's 0-1 representing Tommy Aspenol in cases on this network, as you'll remember from a past ranking show. But he is back to defend. Good old Tommy Aspinall again. He is Jed Bishu.

Hi, Jed. How are you? Mike, can I just say that 2024 has been a joy, just an absolute. joy. I mean, woke up one morning and it was, hey, here are these incredible fights. Dustin is going to fight Ben Wassandini. No one expected this. This is fantastic. Charles Olivaira and Armand Srucun, it's great. Then I wake up this morning and I see that the internet is dunking on Jonathan Dwight Jones because the man has big feelings. He's got a whole lot of them and he is sure to want to talk about those big feelings. When really, I've already explained exactly what's going on. I don't know why we need to have this program right here. Everyone knows

the story, but sure, let's bring our other guest in so he can be incorrect for a while, and I can show him the ways of the world that we discovered at the end of last year. And that may I will be representing one Jonathan Jones, Mr. New York, Rick, Eric Jackman. Hello, sir. I feel like you're the right person to represent John Jones. Thank you for being here. I might be John Jones' best representation to date. I mean, you know, based on the track record, I might, I might be by default be his best representation. You can't do worse than he's doing for himself right now. That's your damn sure. I am very happy to be arguing on behalf of the goat in this conversation. Couldn't be my goat. Well, if you have been hiding under a rock, if you have no idea what we're talking about,

I will do my best to lay this out as quickly and as precisely, I guess, as possible. So John Jones wins the UFC heavyweight title in March of last year, submits Cyril Gahn in the first round in the main event of UFC 285. Jones was scheduled to fight Steepa Mietich at UFC 295 in November at MastersCorp Garden, tears his peck, forced to withdraw. So the UFC books an interim title fight between Tom Aspinall and Sergey Pavovich, which was won by Aspinall in quick and devastating fashion. Jones has now undergone elbow surgery as well to add to the litany

of enlist of injuries. And Aspinall certainly wants the John Jones fight, as he should. And John Jones wants the Steepa fight. The UFC wants the Jones versus Stepe fight as well. And this came to a boiling point around Monday night into Tuesday because Aspinall drops a TikTok video that got a lot of attention of him going old and gray waiting for Jones. And then Jones goes to social media as he typically does. Post then deletes it. Says, quote, I recognize only four of these on your resume launching TikTok attacks while I'm over here on the injury list is just whack you get no points for that where I'm from then he follows up with the Twitter storm that begins with only four recognizable opponents and already the king of England must be nice there will be legendary tales

told about you and your infamous callouts then he responds to a fan saying essentially john you can't blame Tom for being frustrated and john responds with quote i mean it doesn't really work like that. I was champion when I was 23 years old. You can't show up at age 30, pretending like you've been chasing me your whole life. I have no clue who 90% of his resume is. Meanwhile, I've been highlighting UFC events. My entire career, I think he means headlining UFC events. Aspinol then responds on Tuesday. This is what we woke up to it. He says, quote, John, you're letting your ego run wild here, mate. I'm not downplaying your resume. It's incredible. Far superior to mine. You are known as the best fighter.

ever, and that's exactly why I want to beat you. Surely you can understand that. And then he adds a tweet that read John Jones, quote, you need to fight people who build your legacy. Me? Great idea. Absolutely. UFC. Do you want to fight Tom? Steep A says no. John says no. Me. Hmm emoji. And John has since responded multiple times. I'm not going through each and every tweet, but both guys are making their cases here. So Jed, we'll start with you. Really bluntly and quickly. Why is Tom right? Why is Tom right here? So Tom's not all the way right, and I'll get to that at the end.

Because there's one real issue I have with what Tom's doing. But let's just start at the beginning. John Jones is scared of Tom Aspinall. I don't know what other way to view this as. And in fact, let me take a quote, if you will, from Jonathan himself at the time of our recording. This was tweeted, oh, let's let's call it, 54 minutes ago. It says,

The Goat is getting older now and is running from fights. 36-year-old lifelong champions starting to contemplate retirement. What a chicken. I mean, he really, I know that he's saying that tongue and cheek, but like straight up,

that's what's happening. Now, I am not here to tell you that he is afraid of a fist fight, but he is clearly afraid of the possibility of losing this fist fight and you can couch it however you want to, put it. I'm sure Eric will try and do that of no, like this is this is fight sport and you, why

accept high risk for low reward? And that's okay. Like I'm not here to say that it is wrong that he is afraid of anything. But at a base level, if what you are doing is choosing to, to place your quote unquote legacy, God knows we can get into that aspect of it too. Over the rightful challenger here, you are admitting that that fight is more challenging and not as good of a business opportunity for you. I can't blame him for business, but I don't know, man. Just a big old chicken.

Near Rick, why is John right here? And I guess why is he more right than Tom Aspinall, I guess we could say? Because I'm sure maybe he's not all the way right in your opinion as well. Yeah, let me just start by saying, well done, Jed, like presupposing my argument and like defeating it by saying what I'm going to say, well done, counselor. Impressive. John is correct because or John is more correct in this scenario because this whole debate, quote unquote, which I don't think is much of a debate is based on a few. It hinges on some things that are not actually true. For one, it hinges on the interim UFC title meaning something. It does not. The interim UFC title, meaning something. It does not. The interim UFC. title does not actually mean anything. It's insignificant. It's at best the number one contendership at worst a ticket in line that goes nowhere. It's completely meaningless. Number two, it presupposes

that the interim champ has to fight the actual champion upon their return. Not true. In fact, there's precedent that that's not true. Michael Bisping fought GSP and didn't fight Robert Whitaker. It just does not, it's 100% not true. And then lastly, it also hinges on the fact that the has been a meritocracy in the last 10 years, decade plus of its existence, which is not true. And it has not been. And their entire model has been based around making fights that they feel are the most significant fights. In this case, and John laid it out very nicely in one of his recent tweets from the last hour or so, he wants this fight. The UFC wants this fight. Steppe Miochus wants this fight. All three parties involved want this fight. On the Tom Aspinall side of things, only Tom

Aspinall wants to fight. Unfortunately for him, he loses. That's just how this goes. And now he can fight Stepe Miochich, but Stepe doesn't want to fight him either. And so he's going to have to go further down the line and fight a Cyril Ghan or fight a Jolten Almeda. And that's fine. And if anybody's going to begrudge John Jones for saying no or saying, I want to aim for the fight that I want, I would ask, are you going to hold Tom Aspinall to the same thing? Are you going to say him aiming for John Jones and Steepi Miochich means that he's scared of Cyril Ghan, means that he's scared of Jelton Almeda, or aiming for super fights with Alex Pereira

throwing out random fights instead of the other heavyweight contenders in line. Would you hold Tom Aspinall to the same standard? To me, this hinges upon some things that are faulty in logic, and then add on top of that, John Jones is the MFing goat and should decide who he wants to fight, period. That's ridiculous. End of story. End of story.

That's ridiculous. He gets to choose. He's earning. it. It was ridiculous. I don't, I couldn't give a shit what he's earned or not in this. As a fan of the sport, it does not matter to me. He absolutely can choose because we can all dictate the lives we want to live. He wants to do it, but he's also going to have to wear this part of the business. Here's my issue, Rick, with this whole thing. Because long-time listeners of like our various programs will know that I'm in on, I have spearheaded a bit called Gaslight John Jones that I firmly believe in. And I swear, like, I think it's working because there's, there's a reason this man is

tweeting up a storm on a Tuesday. It's because it is getting to him. The, the chatter is bothering him because his ego cannot handle. Like, just think about all the interactions John's ever had. When Habib, during all of his greatness, was, like, elevated to the top pound for pound and people started to speculate, maybe Habib's the top. John could not deal with it and had to tweet about like, oh, well, he's undefeated now, but like he hasn't. He can't handle it. And so I think Gaslight John Jones is going great right now. But the issue that I have with all of this is I am starting to buy my own dimmick because John can't be honest about any of this.

And that he did. You're right, Rick. He has the one thing that you, that is a terrific point. The UFC wants this, he wants this, Steepa wants this. That's the three legs to make a tripod, baby. That's how a fight gets booked. And I cannot argue with that point. I can argue with every other tweet he has sent

because they are all riddled with like either outright lies or insane delusions about things that are going on. And like the first one that cropped up on my timeline this morning was a retweet from somebody else that was a, you know, hey, so that's not how this works. as Mike sort of alluded to, a fan said, hey, you can't blame him for being upset about it.

No, that's not how this works. I was champion when I was 23. What does that have to do with shit, John? And that's exactly how this works. Like, coming at Tom Aspinall's resume, only four dudes I've ever heard of. John, do you want us to go back and look at your resume before you fought for the title?

Because, like, are you hanging your hat on Andre Guzmow and Jake O'Brien? really being like the stalwart you think it is? Like it is all, I could tolerate this so much more if he could just let it be because we all know what is happening here. Nobody is in the dark about how things are going. And as I said at the very beginning, I don't begrudge him for doing business. This is business. And I get that. But I do begrudge him pissing on my head and telling me it's rain and that Tom Aspernel doesn't deserve this. And that's not how this works. Like, I've been fighting dudes forever. Okay, you fought one heavyweight, my brother. And you had a great run of light heavyweight. Undeniable. But let's not pretend that

Stepe is helping the legacy. Oh, this is for my legacy. Who, who is giving this any credence for what we all know what this is? Why not go fight Mark Coleman? He's a historically relevant heavyweight. Tony Ferguson's a very significant fighter in MMA history. Those aren't, this is not, we know what this is. So just be honest about it, brother. Like, that's it. That is the only thing I ask, and I will stop being mean to you on the internet and riling up the people to be there with me. But like, if you're just out here tweeting through this, you can't speak out of both sides of your mouth saying, I'm the goat and all the rest of this stuff. It's one or the other in this instance. And I don't blame you,

but man, just quit being this way about it, you know? Rick, you're a buttle. I agree with some of that. I agree with the idea that like the steepe fight doesn't do what I think John or the UFC is suggesting it will do for his legacy. I agree with that point. I think that there is a bit of lying being done by both John Jones and the UFC here. I don't believe that this is some legacy defining fight. Quite frankly, because I don't think steepe is like, yes, he may be the best UFC heavyweight, but I don't really, I don't think he carries as much legacy and respect as some of the other name. So I don't, I don't, yeah, I don't rate it super highly as a legacy fight. I agree with the idea that this is business and he's choosing a fight that's going

to be better for business in his mind and the UFC is trying to put on a fight that's better for business in his mind. The one thing I'll try to explain a way or try to justify is, I don't think John Jones is suggesting, or maybe he is suggesting, but the kernel of truth in what he's suggesting. When he says, I've been doing this and are you, fought a bunch of dudes who I don't know their name. Maybe he fought a bunch of dudes that we didn't know their name before he got his title shot. But the reality is, it's now 2024. He doesn't need to lean on that. Since then, he's become the MMA goat. And he's allowed to call a shot. He's a, yes, he's the go. And he's allowed to, he's allowed to determine his path. If that path doesn't

include Tom Aspinall, tough, tough effing cookies. Like, maybe John Jones doesn't return. Tom Aspinall gets granted the official title and his interim becomes an official and everything's kosher and everything's the same. He is not owed a fight with John Jones. There is no IOU owed to Tom Aspinall that he is deserving of a fight with John Jones. John Jones can give that to him or John Jones cannot. That is the reality. And he's going to have to live in that world and John Jones is deciding right now that he doesn't want to give it to Tom Aspinall. Maybe that'll change. Hopefully that'll change. I want to see that fight. But there's no obligation for John Jones. The other thing, there is a kind of pre, there's also this idea that like, yeah, Stipe is not a legacy fight, but Tom Aspinall is a legacy fight because he beat the young hungry lion and oh wow, it's going to do something amazing for his legacy.

In reality, the way that plays out is he beats Tom Aspinall and then they go, eh, Tom wasn't that good. It's actually Jalton Ameda. That's the guy I really want to see. And all of a sudden it becomes this thing that when John was in his prime, it's fight this contender. and fight this contender and fight this contender. That's, that's John Jones's prime. He's not in his prime anymore. He's got a select few fights left to do. And spending his time knocking off the young, hungry, every single contender that is popping up and people decide the last one was kind of a bum. Cyril Gaon was the future of the heavyweight. Everybody was on that train. Oh, Cyril gone. Oh,

my God, Cyril Gaon. He's this hybrid fighter. He grew up in the system only doing it. He's not that guy. And John Jones exposed that. And then if he beats Tom Aspinall, it's going to be Jalton. And then it'll be, oh, you know what? We're circling back to Curtis Blades now. And actually, it was Sergei Pavlovich and it will just never end. So this idea that, like, he'll put everything to bed by beating Tom Aspinall, fallacy, false, not real. Now, it's a tough task and I love it. And I would love if he was able to do it. But it's not putting anything to bed. The steep fight will probably make it more money just because it seems like the UFC is more willing to kind of put their marketing dollars behind it and put something behind this because it is quote unquote legacy for them.

But this idea that Tom Aspinall is more of a legacy fight or all of a sudden does more for his resume, it's just unfortunately not true. It will not play out that way. Habib retired undefeated, there will always be a name that he didn't beat, that everybody's going to drum up. And there will always be a name. If John beats Tom and walks away, it's going to be he was scared of Jolton. It's going to be he was scared of X, Y, Z guy. It's just the reality of it.

That's just like almost objectively not true. Please. So here's the thing. You're right. It won't put anything to bet because the conversation is never over. That's just how sports work. There's always a new season. There's always next year.

There's always a new contender. The game is not, I beat everyone and I get to the end of this game like it's an Assassin's Creed video game. It is, I hold off as long as I can. I am at the top for as long as I can. And eventually I do it. And eventually someone gets me and I go out on my back because that's how it works in pro wrestling. Like that's, you stay at the top for as long as you can. But life is infinite and we are finite.

It is never going to solve everything. And I don't think anyone has ever said he beats Tom Aspinall unquestionably this. But beating Steepa does literally nothing for his resume. Like absolutely nothing. I do not know a serious person who will give that win any amount of credence in the year of our Lord of 2024. Beating Tom Aspinol may not. And certainly in the short term, I would agree with you, Rick.

If he goes out there and he fights Tom Aspinall and he beats Tom Aspinall, people will immediately do what they have done with Cyril Gahn right now. Like, dismiss him. And maybe in five years, that dismissal is correct because the conversation is evolving. And if Cyril Gahn never wins another fight, then yeah, well, it actually wasn't that good. And that's real to say, hey, he had a good run and we felt one way at the time. But with better context, we know. not. Or if Seel Gahn comes back and he puts off a 10-fight win streak and becomes one of the

most decorated UFC champions in all history, that win's going to age pretty damn well for John. And historically, when you look back, you're going to say, man, that was pretty good. Like if you look back at Floyd Mayweather, you're like, hey, it's pretty damn sick that he beat Canello because Canello went on to be what he is. And it is so significant. Tom Aspinall, there is no guarantee that he will be that dude. but there is an opportunity for him to build a legacy in the years to come that looking back a win over him, John can say, I beat the best in generation after generation after generation. And that is a significant piece to his thing.

Fighting Steepa does nothing for him. There is at least an opportunity by beating Tom Aspinall that it does. And I have been on this long before this was a conversation with John. I am the ringleader of the hardest thing to do is defend belts in this sport, and that one of the most impressive things about fighters is their ability to stay at the top and beat not just every dude in their weight class for a period of time,

but do it generation over generation over generation. John is, again, I understand why he's doing it, but we can take this legacy shit just right out of the conversation because it is objectively to me a better legacy fight for Tom Asmel. I don't know if it's better money-wise. It is certainly a more high-risk fight than the steep A.

But in five years, him having a win over Tom Aspinall is way more important to me than him having a win over Steve Ameachichich. I just don't agree. I think they're equal. I just don't think, I just like John already did that at light heavyweight. He already beat the eras, the different eras of fighters. He took out the old era and then beat the current crop. And people will pick apart his resume now. You know, people will denigrate Shogun like Shogun with some chump.

Like it's just the reality. I don't, I don't have enough. in MMA fans and I don't have enough faith in MMA history that this fight will be that significant in the long term. Here's what you can't have faith in then, Rick, because straight up, I'm not, you know, I'm not aerial. I'm not, I'm not a major figure in this sport, but I swear to God, if he doesn't fight Tom Aspinall, I will spend the rest of my days covering this sport, making sure people know he ducked

Tom Aspinall. And that he wants, my goat could never be afraid of Tommy Aspinall. And every time you say he's the unquestioned goat, I'll be like, no. Demetrius Johnson never ducked a soul. Jose Alder never ducked the soul. All these other people never ducked a soul. John waited three years to move to heavyweight when Francis conveniently wasn't around anymore and they won't fight Tom.

There are two sides to how a legacy conversation can go and you've not taken this, Tom. But, buddy, that's going to be bullet point A in my argument for why he ain't the goat. Two things I want to say. Well, first of all, he's the goat. Second of all, couldn't be mine. I mentioned Floyd Mayweather. The rap on Floyd Mayweather isn't like more of the conversation around Floyd Mayweather's legacy isn't, wow, he really got Canelo. What his thing was, he got Canello too early, he got Pachial too late. He never fought the guys when they were in the prime. You cherry picked the opponents. There will always be a way, no matter how great you were, they will always find the way to pick it apart. And John Jones is is being subject to that right now. The goat is being subject.

to that right now. The other thing I'll ask is Jose Aldo, Demetrius Johnson, all these fighters of a bygone era, would you agree? Would you say it is fair to say that the sport of prize fighting, if you even consider it a sport, the entertainment of prize fighting has significantly shifted to the point where next contender used to be more of a given than it is now, right? Like the way I look at the sport, the way I think about how fighters are picking their opportunities now, right? I would say that as opposed to 10 years ago, title shots are being given less on merit. Now, I'm not saying all of a sudden the system is upended where there's no merit, but it seems less on merit.

The fabric of that has seemed to have eroded a little bit. Yeah, for sure. I would argue that in this era, John Jones is doing what is the norm, is doing what is expected in this era. He did in the previous era. He did the thing where it was, okay, this guy's number one. I'm going to murder him. He's my best training partner. It's Sugar Shot Evans.

I'll take them out. I don't care. Runed friendships, just absolutely obliterated people during his prime. He did that era. Now he's in the era where title shots are not granted solely on merit. Now he's in the era where the money is higher. The opportunities are more important for you financially. He's setting up for his future.

He's on the tail end. And he's deciding these few fights, I'm going to choose who the opponents are going to be. and I'm going to do it within the confines of what this is. The UFC, he's not, he's not bucking against the UFC. They're in lockstep with what's happening here. So I would argue that he is, he is doing what is expected of a champion in this modern era. Now, there's a, there's a great argument that like, maybe this is corrupt, maybe this whole thing is a sham at this point and it should go back to some sort of meritocracy.

But that's a separate conversation. John Jones is operating within the confines of what exists right now. And I'm okay with it. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements.

What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won! Boating will begin when passenger fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 1866-5-312 or visit comex ontario.ca. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too.

That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Great job, gentlemen, great arguments. So I want to flip this in a different way. And Eric, I want you to go first on this. Sure. If you're John Jones's manager or PR, rep or, you know, this is a perfect question for you.

The social media guru behind John Jones and his communication skills on social media and beyond. What's the next step? Should he keep doing what he's doing? Should he do the thing? New York, Rick? If so, what is the thing? What would you advise John to do next when it comes to the situation?

I wouldn't change the thing. The best thing about John Jones is how much of a sensitive ego-driven person he is. The best thing about John Jones is that you can needle and prod him and get him. to respond because what it leads to is ultimately these fights that get picked and feel big. Francis Ngano and John Jones spent the entirety of their beef on Twitter. There was no real interaction between the two. It was solely developed from, you're scared of me, I'm scared of you. And it continued and everybody bought into it. And it became this fight that people needed to have. The same thing is going to happen with Tom Aspinall. I would argue that there's already some

real steam to Tom Aspinall versus John Jones. If this continues in this manner, where John Jones continues to play this game where he's dismissing him while not dismissing him, like thinking he's dismissing him, but really just feeding the flame. And Tom Aspinall continues to lead into it, it will just create the opportunity for the fight to be exactly what Tom Aspinall wants it to be and what exactly what John Jones wants it to be, which is a big fight that is worth all the money that he can't say no to it anymore. Right now, it's not there. It is not there. But if they continue to drum up this kind of back and forth on Twitter and elsewhere, or all of a sudden run into each other and Tom Aspinall sitting front row at every John Jones fight and it can't be avoided, this will become a megapite. And it will be something that John Jones will have to seriously consider taking. But it's not right now. Jed, same question. Is Tom doing the thing? Or is there anything he can do moving forward

that would lead him to do the thing? How would you navigate this for your quote unquote client Tom Astidall. I would just like to very quickly say, Eric, the best part about John Jones is when he is physically in a cage fighting someone and not him being the saddest, saddest man online because it's tough. Like, well, I think we can all agree that when John does inevitably retire, it's going to be really, really awful to see him just like in his 60s.

Well, I know that this young up-and-comer is really good, but he's not as good as I used to be just the loudest, saddest man. And he'll be right. He will not be. Things get better as time moves on. That's just how that works. Look, I said at the top of my thing

that Tom's doing mostly okay, but I have one pretty major issue with him. And it's almost the exact inverse of my large issue with John. My issue with John has said, is it it's just a lie? I think his his the result is fine like I understand the result it's his process to get there that's garbage with Tom he he got to stop being nice about it like I know that he is wants to do this and

maybe that that is working thus far you know being the but all of his responses like you said mike John you're letting your ego run wild with you have never denigrated your resume it's far better than mine. That's not what I would be putting. Be like, yeah, John, your resume is great. And if this was 10 years ago, that would carry water. But your resume at heavyweight's one dude, I got four in the top 10 that I've nuked.

Where's your resume here, homie? Like, why are you scared of me? He needs, in the immortal words of Chale Sunnan, not here to be friends. I am here to pick a fist fight with you. He needs to start picking a fight with John because, you know, TikTok posts and stuff. Maybe this is a fine timeline to you start there and then you build into more animosity and it becomes like Eric had said and there's so much heat that John accepts it.

And if all of this is how that works out and John takes the fight, I'll stop saying bad things about him. But if he's not, you got to prod him more. You can't keep coming with the, I just respect you so much. That's why I'd like to fist fight you. No, because you can see that the words are affecting John now. there's a, again, there's a reason he keeps tweeting. He's not happy about it.

And you got to get in there and needle him and needle him hard with less of the, I respect you, more like, man, you're doing a lot of talking. And you are just so scared to fight me because it's childish. But let me tell you, I was on a lot of school yards in my day and saying, bet you won't swing. Sure as hell got a lot of fights started, you know? And now for the final round here. This is the closing statements for you guys.

Truth be told, before we got started, so this could be 15 minutes. And we've already doubled that before the final statement. So I flipped the cord here. It landed on Jed. So you get to go first, Jed. Your final statement, what would you like to close with on this conversation? All I want in this whole thing is honesty from both sides.

And Tom Asma has been abundantly upright about this. Everything that he has said, you can believe every bit of it with your whole chest. and everything John is saying, you can't. Because he's clearly not telling you the thing, even when he's saying, you know, stuff like his most recent stuff. Like a lot of y'all don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Okay, then tell us.

Just lay it out. Lay out exactly why you don't want to fight him and not with any of these. I've been doing this for 20 years or whatever. Just say the honest thing because his two most recent tweets are what I refuse to do to be like these other fighters who stuck around too long. He is saying in so many words, I'm a fight steep because it's easy cash and then I'm out of here. And then in the next tweet, he's like, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that I'm retiring after the steepate. We know what's happening. We just want you to be straight up with us. And if, if Eric is right and what you were doing is laying the groundwork, laying the foundation for a fight at the end of the year with Tom that has all this heat and animosity, I'll take back everything I said. I will have been absolutely incorrect, unequivocally wrong. if this was all some big brain galaxy level plotting to build this fight into what it is.

But on its face right now, it's not that. And it's so ugly and lame in a way that is legitimately bringing down my estimation of you as a champion, rightly or wrongly. It is actively hurting your perception publicly with some of the fans. So, you know, if you're scared, go to church and if you ain't scared, or fight Tom Aspinall, baby. Eric, your closing statement. I just need MMA fans to stop believing in Santa Claus. Like, we're too old for this.

We have to get over this idea that like, yeah, what's right and what's deserved. And this person gets this opportunity because they worked really, like enough already. Like, grow up and recognize what's happening here. Grow up and recognize what's happening in the entertainment that you watch in the business of MMA. and realize that this is the future. This is what is going to happen. Unless something drastically changes, unless all of a sudden we get into...

It's very highlistic of you. And we go back to where there was a meritocracy in the UFC and in MMA wider. Get over it. Tom Aspinall has been declined by John Jones for one reason or another. Jed would argue it's because he's scared. I would argue that Goad is not scared of anybody

and obviously that's silly. The point being, it has been declined. It has also been declined by Steepi Miochich. It has also been declined by the UFC. Tom Aspinall and his fans are the only ones who are caring about this at the moment. Unfortunately, that's not enough. Grow up and get over it. John Jones is going to fight Steepi Miochich.

Put on the big boy pants, watch the fight, and then hope that Tom has done enough by the time that's over that he can get a fight with John Jones. I love this so much. Oh, also, because I think Eric and I can agree on this, though. Ultimately, the actual party to blame here is the UFC, correct? Absolutely. They deserve the lion's share of the blame. I felt like we've spent 30 minutes talking this,

and we probably should have at least pointed out that the actual party to blame is the UFC. But in the terms of Eric, I've grown up and abandoned, hoping that the UFC will ever do the right thing. And so it's just a lot more funny to make chicken noises at John Jones, because as science tells us, Eric, a chicken cannot be a goat. Well. Wow.

Or a duck, right? A duck can't be a goat either. That's true. Those are both birds and birds are not goats. Well, you can all be goats by voting on who you think is more right, I guess. MMAfighting.com. It's a tremendous website. There's a post up there in regards to this very topic.

There's a poll in there. That's where you can vote. Are you on Team Jones? Are you on Team Aspinall? And my final thought is agreeing with Jedded New York Rick just close with. It's just amazing. absolutely amazing how everyone is divided and has chosen aside. But the UFC who made this interim title thing happen,

they just skate away with zero blame. It's unbelievable. It just shows how red hot they are. They literally just fall forward no matter what happens. And it's incredible. And to add to what Jed just said, UFC, you have shown already just with the lightweight fights that you have made in 2024. You can do the thing.

Here's your chance to do the thing again. We know you're capable of it. So just do it. Make this right because this is all really dumb. If Jones and Steepa needs to happen, that's fine. But just have some sort of plan in place. Let's end this whole thing. Make Tom the champion.

These could still fight. Who gives a shit? But let's just move on with our lives here. Because if I have to sit here and watch John Jones, tweet at Tom Aspinall and random fans at Tom Aspinall, just be nice and then just randomly have conversations with himself as other people, I might just lose my mind and rip whatever hair is left off my head out of my head. It has been deeply amusing to watch people like get mad at Top Mathsman Hall for objectively no reason.

It's crazy. Can I just point out one more thing? We literally watch this just happen with the welterweight title. We literally just watched Colby Covington get a title shot that he did not deserve. And everybody was up in arms and Balal deserved it and he didn't get his shot. And now fast forward, the fight is over. The world is still on its end. axis, we're still rotating. Everything's fine. Nobody, nothing was materially different or worse because

of that. Steepae will get knocked out by John Jones. We'll move on and then hopefully Tom Aspinall gets a shot at John Jones. I love that your argument is just nihilism. We're all cosmic deaths are a rock curling through space. None of it means anything. Happy 2024, everybody. Yes. And this has been the melting pot. And for all of us here at M.A.fying.com, may all of your ingredients, as well as your arguments be fresh. Good night, everybody.