MMA Fighting - Kayla Harrison Talks Kaitlyn Young, Ronda Rousey’s Comments, Amanda Nunes’ Exit from ATT

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

Ahead of her fight at PFL 6, Kayla Harrison previews her upcoming matchup against Kaitlin Young after her original opponent Julia Budd was forced off the card at the last minute. Harrison discusses why she’s her own worst critic when it comes to her fights but how that actually drives her to be better each and every time out. She also addresses the recent interview with former U.S. Olympic teammate Ronda Rousey after she revealed new details about the end of her own fighting career. Harrison will also respond to comments made by former teammate Amanda Nunes, who left American Top Team recently to strike out on her own after suffering a loss to Julianna Pena in the UFC. All this and more in a one-on-one interview with Kayla Harrison. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. I'm Damon Martin, and this is the MMA Fighting Podcast Channel. of course I am usually hosting my own podcast, The Fighter versus the Writer, but this week, I am bringing you a special interview with the woman who will headline the PFL card on Friday from Atlanta, Georgia. She is one of the top pound-for-pound women on the planet. Of course, her name is Kayla Harrison. She doesn't do a ton of media, so I always appreciate her taking the time for me to chat.

We're going to chat about her fight coming up with Caitlin Young, her last performance, of course, and we're also going to address some other situations going on in her career. you know, outside the cage, let's say, and a lot more. So right now, here is my conversation ahead of her return to action at PFL on Friday, my talk with Kayla Harrison. Kayla, how are you? What up, Damon? How are you? How's everything?

I know we're literally a day away from Wayans, two days away from the fight. Thank you for taking the time. I know stressful fight week can be, and I'm sure doing extra interviews is always what you request. You know me, Damon. I always got time for you. So I'll be honest. We go back a long ways, Kayla. We do.

Before you were even in MMA. And I have talked to you dozens of times at this point. And I've been doing MMA interviews for 20 years. Rarely am I intimidated. Rarely am I intimidated by an interview. But you intimidate me a little bit because you always talk about how much you don't like doing interviews and how much you don't like doing media. I'm like, I really don't want to piss off Kayla Harrison.

I really don't want to find a way to piss you off. You're a smart guy. No, listen, I understand that it's it. I understand that it's a necessary evil of this sport. And what is, what are we the B leagues or are we the A leagues? Damon, you all right? I'm here. You ready?

I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm recording. What was I saying? Um, yeah, no, listen, talking, talking about yourself is a necessary evil of this sport, you know, like I am at the end of the day, my own brand, my own thing. And I got to promote me to the best of my ability. But really, um, there comes a time when you kind of just get sick of yourself. You, uh, I'm at that time. I will, I will say, because I know you don't.

do every interview. I'm sure you get a million requests. And I think me and Ariel are like the two people you always take. So I do appreciate that. That you always take my interview requests. I do. I do. You know, I did do every single interview in the beginning. And I was like, it just gets to a point where you also have to take care, you know, self-care is the best care. Yeah, absolutely. I take your interview, Damon. You ask good questions. So don't, don't disappoint me today. I will do my absolute best never to disappoint you, Kayla. I'm going to ask, I'm going to ask a question now because I know that's where the conversation is going to lead, which is, before we gather up at Caitlin Young, we talk about the last fight. I always joke with you.

I know what you're going to tell me when I ask you about your last fight. You're not going to compliment yourself. You're going to see what went wrong. Now, you were very critical after the last fight. I didn't, I thought it was still a great performance. Credit to your opponent for being able to stick around, but I'm just going to say, Kayla, tell me what you thought about your last fight. Go. After much review, Damon, and a couple nights without sleep, I'm going to go ahead and say that the performance was lacking in Luster, but you can't be a sharp, sharp tack every single time. Sometimes you're going to, you know, when you fight as often as I fight, the caliber that I, you know,

this girl is a seven-time Samba world champion. She obviously knew what she was doing. She did everything she could to survive. She wasn't trying to win. She was trying to survive, but she did it well. And I was flat. I was flat. I came out for whatever reason.

I was a little flat that night, but I still got the W. I found a way to do what was needed to be done. And I'm looking forward to getting that behind me because everyone only cares about your last fight. So Friday night can't come soon enough. Isn't there something to be said because we've seen in this sport so many times when a fighter has an off night or they come out flat? That's when they lose.

You know, that's when they get upset. That's when we see a shocking knockout or, you know, Matt Sarah knocking out George St. Pierre, whatever it is, like, whatever the moment is, we get shocked by that. Isn't there something to be said that when you don't have your best night at the office and you still win a 30, 26 decision or whatever ends up being that that's still good, right? can still win even when you're technically quote unquote not at your best you know that's that's why i prepare the way i prepare that's why i put my body through the ringer so that on my worst night i can still be the best in the world you know i it's like dordon in the flu game like my coach always used to say that to me when i would be sick or when i would be injured or when i would be run down he's like well what if you're what if you have the flu at the olympics what are you going to tell i'm sorry can we

have it a couple days later like what are you going to do if you're injured what are you going to what do going to do you have to you have to be prepared for that so um unfortunately and fortunately i i train through a lot of crap and i i prepare myself so that on my worst night i'm still the best in the world yeah absolutely and again that says a lot about what you put into these training camps and what you expect out of yourself because i joke with you but i'm serious like you are you are your own worst critic but that always makes you get better right like you are i can i can praise you up and down left right and center. Doesn't matter. You're going to be your own, your own critic, but that also pushes you to always get better, right? You'll go out there. You go out there on Friday and

win in a minute 13. I guarantee the next time we talk, you're going to say, well, I didn't do this right. But that's how you continue to get better. It's when you sit down, I think the day, when the day comes when you sit down and me and said, that was a perfect fight. I might be like, are you okay, Kayla? Do you have like a fever? I better retire. What's going on? Every time to call it quits. Yeah. No, I mean, I think that we, I think that you're absolutely right. Like I have an internal desire to be the best possible version of myself. And the day that I wake up satisfied is the day that I should probably hang up the gloves. Like that's, you know, that's when you do start to to see, damn it. Like I don't want to, I don't, I want to go out on top. I want to go out. But I don't know that I'll ever get there. I'm also like just a freak. You know, that's why I, um, I. have accomplished what I've accomplished, I think, is because I'm never satisfied. And I think the only, I talked about this a little bit earlier, but the only difference really now is like when I was younger, I think that that came from a place of fear.

I think it came from a place of like, I have to do more. I have to be enough. I have to, if I win this, I'll be enough. If I win a gold medal, then they'll love me. If I do this, then I'll be worthy. and that can be exhausting, you know, to come from a place of fear. But I think the older I've gotten, the more work I've done on myself, the more gratitude and joy and sort of a place of like, I guess, almost like love or just like,

joy, you know, like it's more about let's see if we can do this. Let's see if we can, can you go a little further. It's a place of positivity. that's where I fight from now. And I think that I think I was always scared to lose that. I was afraid to lose that. You look at all the greats in the world, right, Damon? Like you look at like the Mike Tyson's and you look at the,

these people have been through so much that has made them tick a certain way, right? Like it's made them a champion. It's made them an absolute stone cold killer. And I was always afraid that if I fixed myself and if I learned to love myself and if I learned to accept my past and who I am and what I've been through, that I wouldn't be that killer anymore. But actually, I think I'm even more dangerous. Like, I think I'm even scarier because I don't place my worth in what other people think of me anymore.

And I don't place my worth in a gold medal and I don't place my worth in a title and I don't place my worth and money. It's freeing. and life is good. It's almost like you're reading my mind and you know where I'm going to go to my next question, which is maybe you saw it, maybe you didn't. It's been obviously you're fighting,

so you may not have seen it. But when you first came into the sport, everyone wanted to talk to you about Ronda Rousey, the comparison, because you're both judo stylist, you came up together. She was a bronze medalist. You were the first gold medal, all these kind of things.

Did you see the comments she had made with Daniel Corme where she said her last couple of fights in MMA, she was doing it for the wrong reasons. She was doing it for other people and not doing it for herself. You just spoke to it right there, kind of doing it for yourself. And I was going to ask because when you first came in, and I know that's still the goal, to be the greatest of all time, no doubt about that. I know that's the ultimate goal for you.

But we've talked recently about you becoming a mom and how you are fighting for something a little different. You're fighting for your kids, things like that. Like, has the reason for fighting change? And would you say that you are doing it for a slightly different reason now than maybe two years ago, three years ago? I mean, I saw that clip of Rhonda and DC talking and it really, it actually, it spoke to me. I was like, damn, you know, I heard that. I felt that. And I don't fight, I fight for a lot of different reasons.

But the number one reason I fight, you know, I fight for my children. I fight for my legacy. I fight to inspire. But the number one reason I fight now is because I love it. You know, because I love it. I enjoy it. I enjoy the process of testing myself, of pushing myself, of seeing how far I can go. And it's not about the girl who's in the cage with me. It's not about her or the next opponent or the next opponent or the next opponent. It's about me personally.

How far can I push it? How high can I climb? What are the limits to my, my potential? Like, what can I do with this life I've been given? And fighting is a piece of that. I have other areas where I try and test myself and push myself. But fighting is a big piece of who I am and how I try to test myself. Is it crazy to think how much that's changed?

Because I remember talking to you after the second Olympic run. And at that point, you're like, I don't know if I want to fight. I don't know if I want to go in this MMA game. I don't know if I want to do that. here we sit now, you're like, I love fighting. Like, it's kind of crazy how much you can learn and love about the sport, right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are still parts that I hate.

Don't get me wrong. I love the sport and the martial art. You know, I love, I love the art of mixed martial arts, and I love the sport of mixed martial arts. I, yeah, I love it. I joked with you during our last interview, and I can't remember what I was talking about. about, but I said some jokingly to you about like, I feel like I need to stop asking you about certain things because I feel like I curse you.

And I feel like I've done it again because going into this season, actually this is going back several seasons. A couple seasons ago, I was like, man, we can't wait to see the fight with Sarah Kaufman. And then she loses and we didn't see it. And then last year, even though it was going to be a third fight, it looked like, I was like, man, this is actually going to be pretty interesting to see you and Larissa Pacheco again because she looks so good in the season. Then she drops out. And then she missed wait. And then she missed wait. And I said, this year I said, man, Julia Budd, here we go.

Former Bell and Church. I am never. The curse of Damon. I am never going to ask you about an opponent again because I seemingly curse you. Don't you say the big ones names ever again. Don't you say the big ones names. Keep them out of your mouth. I'm never going to do it.

Kayla, I swear to God, I said it. I was like when I heard the opponent change. Now, again, to credit where credits did it do. Caitlin Young is a legend in their own right. She's an icon. Absolutely. I was actually, I go back to the day when she knocked out Misha Tate, you know, back in the day. I was actually at that fight back in the day in Evansville, Indiana, hook and shoot.

But I'm never, I'm never doing it again. If I do, you can yell at me. If I do, like, if someone gets signed to PFL and they, like, sign it and they make a big deal of it, and I ask you about it, just say, I'm done, hang up the interview because I can't do it anymore, Kayla. Yeah, no, I'm just going to, like, I'm going to hang up on you. I'm just like, Damon, you know what you did. It's crazy. It seems like every time we have these conversations, like something weird happens. Like that's like the weird fate of the sport, right?

No, the sport is tough, you know? It's frigging, it's to grind. And I think what people don't understand also is what a grind a season can be. Like there's no, you can't postpone it. You can't put it off. You can't like this, PFL is a daunting, it's a daunting challenge. And I think sometimes people don't understand that. You know, you hear Pettis talk about it. You hear Rory talk about it. They've all experienced other forms of MMA promotions.

So, yeah, a lot can happen, especially in a season, things that you did not expect. So, you know, speedy, best wishes for a speedy recovery to Julia Budd. I hope we get to share the cage someday. And I'm looking forward to finding Caitlin Young. Like you said, she's a pioneer of the sport. She's tough. She's composed. She's going to come out there trying to make a spot for the playoffs.

So I expect the best version of her on Friday night. And, you know, I have a lot of respect for her. And I'm looking forward to sharing the cage with her. It's funny. You say that. I did that interview with Anthony Pettis where he said it's a whole different animal, fighting into PFL versus what I did in the UFC. People love they, anytime you're dominant, they love to critique something about you.

And of course, you always face the quote unquote criticism. I'm like, well, you haven't faced the best of the best. It's all garbage. But I love that he said that. I love that he said that because I don't think enough people give credit to the difficulty of just doing what you do over basically a six-month span, fighting four times. And that's four training camps. That's four training camps where you have to stay healthy. I just talked to your teammate earlier this morning, Yonanjaic.

And she talked about a big part of the reason she ultimately retired was that she was worried about her health long term. Like she's healthy. She's healthy now, but she's like, I can't, there's no amount of money you can sacrifice for health. You know what I mean? And I don't think people recognize the amount of damage you put on your body in the four, six, eight weeks leading into this fight. You have to fight.

And guess what? You're going to fight against six weeks from now. So you have to go through it again. Yeah, I know. It's literally like, yeah. It's so insane when you really think about it. No, no, it's insane. Like, it's insane.

Now that I'm in my third season and, and I'm like, you know, getting older. And I think also the level of my game has evolved. So like when I'm sparring, I'm sparring, like people are really hitting me. And like it's friggin hard. There's no way to, to sugarcoat it. Like four fights in five and a half months, six months is like, it's brutal on the body. It's, it's mentally draining. You win a fight. You don't even have time to, to soak that in, you're already back in camp the next week because you fight in six weeks. Like, it's tough. It's, this is like, um, the PFL threw down a gauntlet and they're like, oh, you think you're a fighter. You think you can fight? Like make it through this.

Yeah. Become champion. Do it twice. Do it once. Do it twice. Okay. Can you do it three times? Like, like, shit, I don't know. I think so. Let's go. Yeah. We've seen it. I mean, listen, I think Anthony Pettis is a legend. We just saw he just got the crazy submission from Steve Uray. Rory McDonald's last season. I don't think anyone necessarily would have predicted Ray Cooper doing what he did to Rory over three rounds. I mean, you just, again, and Rory and Anthony Pettis are two great examples of established stars, established champions who face the different animal in the PFL. So for anyone who likes to throw out the criticism, go do it.

Go do it. And see how hard it is. See the queen of them all. Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask you a question that's going to make you mad at me? Am I allowed? Yeah, of course. Okay.

So anything for you, Damon. There's only, the only reason I'm asking this question is because I haven't had a chance to ask you yet. And I don't know that you've even had a chance to address this. And by the way, if you want to say, I don't want to address it, fine. I'll let it go. Okay. You are, you are well known as an incredible ambassador of your team, an American Top Team. By the way, your coach, Mike Brown, is logging in some incredible frequent flyer miles right now, by the way, going crisscrossing about the country.

I know. He's a beef. Yeah. He deserves his own award. Seriously. Like, when he showed up in Gamrod's quarter, the night after coaching Johnny Ebel, and I was like, geez, does this guy? No, I know. I know.

No, I thought at first, because I didn't know he was like, I didn't know he was going to that fight. So when he posted the picture, I thought it was like an old picture. him and I was like, wait a second, that's, that's Mike Brown yelling at him. Like, Mike is out to fight. He was just in Connecticut with Johnny. Like, I was like, he's coming into my fight on Monday. I was like, he's insane. Yeah, he's seriously.

Yeah. So I know. About dedicated. Yeah. I know you are the captain of American top team. I'm sorry. I talked to Jorge a couple days ago I didn't bring it up to him because I didn't want hurt his feelings.

You know, I didn't want to hurt his feelings about that. Yeah. You know, he's a lot softer than me. So I can take it. But I know you pride yourself on being a very. a good teammate. And I know for the longest time, everyone always wanted to talk to you about the relationship you have with Amanda because she was in the gym. Did you see the comments that Amanda made when she talked about leaving ATT and she said, quote unquote, I'm not even safe of my own

territory. She talked about you and Yanukuna Kuna Skye is starting to train the American time. Now, I didn't do the interview, but Guillermo Cruz, my teammate did. I, you know, impeccable guy. I don't know Amanda very well. I think I've interviewed her maybe five times, so I don't know her well. But I was actually kind of surprised by those comments. Did you hear it and can I ask for your response? Yeah, no, I heard it. I think someone sent it to me the next day or whatever.

You know, I have nothing negative to say about Amanda. I don't, again, great teammate. I really enjoyed the time we got to train together. I really enjoyed learning from her, growing with her, pushing each other. I feel bad that that's how she feels because I always tried to be up front and respectful about my wishes and my goals. You know, like I never shied away from it or tried to pretend. And I don't know. I always tried to, I don't know.

I feel bad that she felt that way. But I also feel like that's not my responsibility. I can't control how she feels. You know, she's also in the gym training and watching me train getting, I mean, I would never, I was not worried or offended or nervous. I mean, you know how many, Jesus, you know how many 170 pounders we have in our gym? You know how many, look at 185. We have Johnny, Dalton, Austin, all in the same division, all in the same promotion. they trained like you know I don't know I'm sorry if she felt that way but it's I can't

I can't control that all I can do is is be me be real and you know I made it no secret I was was pretty upfront and honest and I still have nothing but good things to say about her as a teammate and a training partner and I still wish you the best absolutely absolutely nothing but the best yeah I mean this with the utmost respect to Amanda, I was down, when I was an American top team in 2017, I was doing a big story on Yowana. She was champion at the time, and she was there.

And Tisha Torres was there, and a lot of the other 1-15 pounders, and some didn't train together, some did, you know, Nina was there, Nina Anseroff when she was still fighting in that division, and Nina Nunes now, excuse me, and there was no animosity, they were training together,

they were working together, you know, and they all had the same goal of becoming champion, but that's just part of, I mean, to me it's like iron sharpens iron. I know that's such a generic thing to say. But it's true. Like you get better with the people around you, right? So yeah, it was, again, I only bring it up because it was surprising.

I just didn't. I was like, that's kind of weird. Like, especially because you're not even really in the, I mean, you're in the PFL. She's in the UFC. Like, it's not in a fight. That's why I never brought it up to you. You know that about me. I never brought up to you because I'm like, it's not happening right now.

Why are we talking about a fight that's not happening? Yeah. And I don't know if she just felt. I don't know. You know, I can't speak for her. I don't know why she said it, where she's coming from. All I can do is, is control me. And, you know, I'm still, I'm still chasing greatness.

And I have nothing but positive things and good vibes to send to her. So that's it. You know, I don't want to start some drama, bullshit. Like, no, I'm not doing it. You're not mad at me now, are you, Kayla? You're not mad at me, are you now? See, here I am. see this I'm talking about.

I'm like, oh, geez, she's going to yell at me. Next interview she does, you're like, this Damon Martin guy, Jesus, Criley. No, you're good. Always stirring things up for me. No, you're good. Trust me, they're way worse out there than you. You're not a shitster. I am not an intentional shitster, Kaylee.

You know that about me. I've never been. I know. I think that's why you always do interviews with me because you know I'm never going to do things just to stir up controversy. You shoot me straight. I shoot you straight. I do.

I do. This fight on Friday, I know we haven't talked a ton about it because I, you know, I don't never talk about technique. I don't talk about game plan. That's kind of pointless. But I do really like this fight. Kaelin is a pioneer. She is a legend.

This is a fun fight. And ultimately, as you said, this is a fight that's going to move you into the playoffs. And I like it. I like this matchup. I like that you're getting a marquee spot, obviously always, main event, things like that. So I look forward to it. I think that's a lot of fun. Yeah, me too.

You know, like you said, she's a pioneer. She's a veteran. She's, um, there's nothing that's going to happen in that cage that she hasn't seen before, you know, so I expect her to, to be prepared and to be ready and, um, me too. I'm ready. I'm excited. We're going to put on a hell of a show. We're going to steal the show and it's going to be a great night of fights.

Absolutely. Kayla, uh, sincerely thank you. Uh, and I mean this, not that you need me to say it, but I do mean, I know you don't have to do interviews. You really don't. I know PFL will tell you you do. I know you don't. So the fact that you always do interviews with me,

I really do appreciate that because, again, it does mean a lot. Nah, you're the man, Damon. Yeah, so I really do appreciate that. Nah. Yeah, have a good weight cut. Have a good fight on Friday. I will definitely be watching. And thank you as always for the time.

I sincerely mean that, Kayla. No, thank you, Damon. You know, you've been around for a long time and you've been giving me a platform for a long time. So I appreciate you too. I always got time for you, buddy. anytime. I appreciate. We'll talk soon, okay? All right. Thanks, Damon. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.