MMA Fighting - On To the Next One: Ask Mike & AK Anything

Episode Date: August 15, 2021

On the 55th episode of On To the Next One, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck and Alexander K. Lee keep their matchmaking hats in plain sight, but turn the program over to you, the listeners. Questions are answered in regards to Friday nights' Bellator 264 and PFL 7 events, Gegard Mousasi and Ray Cooper III's main event victories, top prospects and up and comers who could be fighting for major world titles in the next two years, Michael Bisping's position on fighter pay, Max Kellerman and Stephen A. Smith's involvement with major UFC events, along with some other fun topics in and out of the mixed martial arts landscape. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hello there, everybody, and welcome to a brand new edition of On to the Next one, and I bet you're thinking to yourself, why are you doing a show? It's a rare weekend off for the UFC. Well, if you listened to the show last week and followed us on social media throughout the week, we decided we're going to do something a little different. We're going to turn it on over to the listeners for the entire show, and we'll have a little bit of an off-the-cuff type edition of On to the next one,

answering your questions about matchmaking, about MMA, about life in general, and it should be fun. First off, I am Mike Heck, and joining me as always is the co-host, typically the co-matchmaker, the Prince of Positivity. He's my best friend in yours, Mr. Alex Cayley, aka, how are we doing today? Are you okay with all this? This is sort of chaos because, like, it's a true testament to our styles we're doing today because I like to, from time to time, fly from the seat of my pants. I don't mind winging it in some occasions. You like to be organized. I feel like this concept is something where we're going to meet sort of right in the middle,

my friend. How are we doing with all of this? You know, I love rules. My best friend, it's well documented that I love rules. I've written the document myself. There's actually a document on my Google Docs that talks about how much I love rules. Because, again, I needed to be organized. I need it to be organized.

I need a little uncomfortable. But you know what? Bell Tour, PFL and the books, don't have to wear about any fun. It's big, big events this weekend, no UFC. You know, the parents are out of the house. And I guess we're just running the show. So, all right, I'm going to loosen my collar a little bit here and try and get into the groove of things.

All right. I dig it. And the beauty about PFL is that we don't need a matchmake for them because we already know where everything's going at this point because they're in a season format. They're in a playoff format. So we already know where things are going to go. Bellator seems pretty obvious as well. Gaygard Musassi won.

Austin Vanderford seems to be next in line, so you don't need to really matchmake there. Koreshkov, you could throw them in there with any 170, and I just want to see Raffian Stats fight anybody right now, so it doesn't matter. And Scott Coker put out a poll about maybe doing a Bannemate Grand Prix. You know I'm all in on that. I'm sure you're all in on that. Oh, yes. So, I mean, we don't really need a matchmake really anything at this point, right?

And he got the attention, Rofion, of Al Jermaine and Peodor Yan with his. with his I'm the best I'm the best fan to win in the world We had Al Jermaine and Piotr respond to our tweet of that comment with Al Javis saying Stats

you got a chill man you're wilding out like Nick Cannon Which I thought is a I mean it's a timely reference And then Pioter pointing out that You got slept by the decision machine Meraab in 15 seconds LOS right Tavals really owns a

Spinning Back fist K-O of Stats from back in the day but obviously that doesn't that doesn't mean anything now but hey he's got two of the best arguably the top two i mean maybe top three if you're including ropian stats now uh ban to weights in the world talking about him so hey good for him yeah that that fight was everything i hoped for and more i loved it was so good um i haven't brought it up at our meetings uh some folks on the staff are like eh spellotor cards are that great and i'm like was that name case was that folk names casey no it wasn't casey okay uh but i i was They're like, eh, it's not that good.

And I'm like, the Statsmaga Mada fight is awesome. And they're just like, eh, not really. I'm like, okay. And it was so good. It was really, really good stuff. The Bellator card was clearly the stronger card on paper. And to put it nicely, also turned out to be the stronger card in execution, I feel. Yes.

The PFL prelims are amazing, though. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, the leg kick. Oh. They were like all nasty finishes. That leg kick was. He screamed. What's the referee doing?

What is he doing? He's just watching this guy like scream and agony and he just allowed another kick after that? Like what is he doing? The verbal, well, you know, the verbal submission rule, I guess is open to interpretation. And he thought, you know what? Maybe this guy like, I don't want him to lose the fight because he, you know, he screamed inadvertently. But I mean, generally, in a fight, I've rarely seen a fighter scream accidentally. I think Chalstone is the only one to claim like, oh, no, I wasn't screaming submission.

I was just screaming to scream once. But other than that, oh, I think what's his name? Joe Warren also said that when he fought Galbao. I think he said like, oh, no, I wasn't submitting it. And it's like, I remember I will never forget the sound Joe Warren made when he got caught in this galvow arm bar. It was like a very high-pitched scream. And I was like, that's a scream of submission. I'm sorry, Joe.

And afterwards, he was like, no, I wasn't like. Again, listeners, there's a reason you don't see a lot of screams in the middle of MMA fights. most guys know the deal. If you scream, if you yell out in pain, that is grounds for any referee to call the fight. And I wish that that had happened a little bit earlier on Friday and saved us, saved that young man. I'm sorry, some pain.

Yeah, I mean, if you watch on the other channel, Davianne Franklin fought Everett Cummings, who was 15 and O. It was Davian Franklin's fourth fight. And you could tell that he's been training with John Jones because one of the first strikes he throws is that sidekick to the knee of Everett Cummings. And you could tell that thing probably tore his entire knee up. And Evercomings just try to keep a poker face the entire time before Franklin just unloaded on him and finish the fight.

But I mean, that's, if he didn't scream after that, like, how much pain was the dude from PFL in on the ground? I mean, I felt horrible for the man. It felt like if you weren't watching a fight, like if you were like downstairs and your brother or your sister or something was watching PFL upstairs and you heard that scream, You probably thought you were watching a horror movie, not a, not a professional sporting event, right? I mean, that was crazy. Or they'd think it was you and they would come down like, are you okay? Did you like drop something on your on yourself? Like are you, did you step on a Lego?

Like what happened there? About that. Sorry, we should say, sorry, it's Michael Lombardo who won the fight. And Kiron Bowen, Karen Bowen, please get well soon. Hopefully, fingers crossed, no serious injuries. But he did look like he was quite a bit of pain. All right. Well, that, speaking of PFL, this, this translates.

and circles us right into our first listener thoughts in question for the week. I am John Heaton on Instagram says, watching this collard fight right now, I think BKFC should purse collard, although I know nothing about PFL contracts and if that's possible. And then when the fight was over, he said, Chad Bendes versus Clay Collard, BKFC, 155 pounds.

What do you think, AK? I love that idea. So, sorry, is Clay Collarvis who again? Chad Mendes Oh god I'm still kind of iffy on the I'm gonna enjoy seeing Chad Mendes and BKFC for sure

He always had good hands You know he's always had good hands For a guy who was classic like Alpha male wrestle first guy Once he got his boxing Rounded out man he was so much fun to watch I remember his second fight with Aldo Is like one of the most

It's just no one talks about the fight anymore That's one of the best I think UFC championship fights I've ever seen so certainly he's going to do well in the burn off of boxing realm Yeah, I think him and Clay Collard makes a lot of sense. He'd probably be giving up quite a bit of size to Clay. Clay is not like a massive lightweight. But yeah, I think that's, I don't know if that's the fight that they would make right away.

Should Clay Collard make his way over there at some point? I imagine Chad Mendez will get a, you know, a non-MMA, maybe more of a bare-knuckle boxing or just a boxing guy first. But I'll be shocked, Mike. I'll be shocked if Clay Collard is a free agent that he does not end up with a BKF see some time in the future. I'd like to see him get another shot of that PFL title. That was a tough, tough decision loss to Manfio.

Very, very difficult to swallow. And I think he gets another run in the PFL. He really raised his stock in combat sports overall over the past couple of years. First with the boxing, just winning some fights he wasn't supposed to win. And now this nice PFL run taking out Anthony Pettis and make it to the semifinals. So I think he probably made a decent amount of money with PFL. hopefully he makes another run but BKFC has to be in his future. Yeah, it's amazing how, I don't know, two and a half, three years ago, Clay Collard's

claim to fame was that he fought and lost to Max Holloway. And it was like a really good fight. Like it was a crazy fight. Holloway won, but I mean, that was his claim to fame. Oh yeah, that's the guy who once fought Max Holloway. And that's it. And now look at him. He's in a much different spot than he is now.

Yeah, I agree with you. I don't think we're going to see. I don't think they're going to give Chad Mendez to Clay Collard in his first BKFC fight. I mean, from what I understand from speaking with Chad Mendez, BKFC is paying him a lot of money to come over there. So I don't think they're going to give him to a professional boxer in his first fight. I think they'll not feed him to somebody, but yeah, essentially feed him to somebody or feed somebody to him. And back to what you were saying about Clay Collard, I want to say, I'm sure the PFL was hoping that he would then be known, was going to be known as the guy who fought Max Holloway

and also fought Anthony Pettus, not the guy who beat Anthony Pettus. And I'm sure we'll touch upon this, I think, with some of the other questions we might have got, Mike. But the three big ticket signings for the PFL this season, Fabricio Verdoom, Anthony Pettis, and Roy McDonald, none of them made it fast as semifinals, which is, again, I don't think is the worst thing in the world, but I imagine

they were hoping there was a little bit of star power that would have made it to one of their finals. But, hey, at least now you build up your own guys. But yeah, that was worth noting. Was that main event the worst case scenario for PFL last night? Because if Ray Cooper is going to win, most people thought it would be like this crazy highlight real knockout. I did not.

And you thought it would go like that? Did you see my, I tweeted. So I actually wrote how to do predictions for this event, which I think I will for all the PFL playoff events. And the way I saw it was, I said there's a good chance that Cooper, because I think he's the best. pure wrestler. I was like, there's a good chance that he just takes Rory down and, you know, kind of just controls the fight with top control, some ground and pound. And then I picked, I picked Rory anyway because I'm an idiot. So I'm like, yes, I kind of predicted how the fight would go, except that I then said, no, it'll probably, Roy will probably keep it on the feet. He's so

much bigger, and then he'll pick, he'll pick Ray Cooper apart. So I don't know why I saw it and then just went away from it. So, yeah, I actually didn't expect it. I actually did think it would, he would have to grind it out if he was going to win. So I wasn't surprised, but I was a little disappointing because I thought Roy could do, could keep it on the feet. Yeah, that was not a great showing from one Rory McDonald. I mean, more of a great performance from Ray Cooper. Great stuff.

I thought, you know, I think people expected a much more competitive fight, and that was not a competitive fight at all. So thank you. That was the first question. We'll trade off here. I think you got the majority of the questions from, from Twitter and such. Sure. I got a couple on Instagram.

but not a ton. All right. I'm just trying to, should I go to the ones that, shall I go to the ones? Okay, well, I'll start with this one because I just want to get out of the way because it's bizarre.

So from regular M.A fighting programming, listeners slash viewer, Susanna, Susanna? Zuzana, with a Zed. Susanna with a Zed. She says, Match to make only fighters whose names start with the same letter,

first or last name, open weight style. So I do not know what the impetus for this was. I guess it's just more of a brain teaser, more of like a word game. I don't know if we want to go A to Z. I think it might take a while. Yeah, maybe we'll pick one.

One or two. One or two. So for some reason, the first in the came to my mind, I don't know why, and I can't think of anything else, is like Fador versus Frankie. And I like that. Okay. Maybe I don't know. Maybe I am finally turning around and seeing what everyone else is seeing, who's like,

doesn't like the Tim Johnson matchup. I still don't mind it. but if I had to choose, I mean, well, the first thing I wanted was Fador to Box Anderson Silva, and that's obviously not happening now. And then now I think like a Fador, I don't know why. It's just maybe it's just the alliteration, but Fader a millionaire go, Frankie Edgar. I mean, Fadour is not the biggest guy anyway. I don't know. I think it would be a freaky thing to watch and I would enjoy it.

And it's just the first thing that came to my head. So I'm just going word association here and Fador Frankie. Yeah, Fadour Francis. There you go. Oh, raise. For a second, I thought you were going to say Frankie, Frankie, Francis. And I was like, I was like, Michael, no. Michael.

No. No, I can't do that. There has to be another. Well, let me throw out a random letter quickly and let's see if we can call one. R. And we're doing what? It's first names, right? Or last names.

Or last names? Okay. I got to bring up my name. I'm going to bring up some names here. I'm cheating. I'm cheating right now. Hashtag Ricky versus Ricky. Simone versus Bondejas.

Boom. See, but that's a fight. Same way class too. Yeah. See, Mike, the only is, that's a great fight. Open weight, that's a great fight. I mean, open weight means anything. It could be people in the same weight class.

But I think you're not taking advantage of the. So I'm going to. Yeah. What do we got here? Roberts. Let's go Robert Whitaker. Oh, gosh. Robert Whitaker.

Now I need a first, now I need a good first name. Robert Whitaker. There has to be another person with that. Oh, I got, I got one. Okay, go ahead. Okay, go ahead. Robert Whitaker versus Robert Fond. Rob on Rob.

Rob on Rob. Can you imagine the boxing in that fight? Like if we could morph font into a middleweight? I'll go Robert and Ryan Hall. There you go. There, why do it? Why was my name? Not surprised.

I was my first R that came to my mind. I apologize. But that's a fun game to play, guys. So if any of listeners want to throw it, again, I don't, this question is so open-ended, but clearly it's not as easy as I thought. So Susie with Zed, thank you for throwing that out there. And, yeah, guys, send us any of your alliterative open-weight matchups. Wow.

All right. I like it. Good stuff. All right. We'll do this one. And then you're going to sort of run this. rest of the way. So this is from our friend Tristan Gordette.

To Mike and A.K. Lee, who are your top prospects to watch in 2021? And make your case on why that particular prospect might be a future title contender down the road in a couple of years. He threw out a couple. Shafcott, Rachmanov, Casey O'Neill, Ali Askap, Kizriev, Makamud Muradoff, and Magamud Muradov, and Magamette and Kaliyev. And he had explanations for all of them. Oh, okay.

I think we've sort of sold. Rock Monoff. We've kind of sold Casey O'Neil. Kizriev, I didn't think this guy deserved a contender series spot. I think he should just got right to the UFC. I mean, he's that good. Deserve was a terrible word to use there. Of course, His Reyesv's getting ready to fight Alessio DeKirico. That's a tough debut fight right there. Murdof, tough dude. I mean, I think Murdof is a name that's been thrown out in terms of middleweights. I think Murdof's name has probably been thrown out more than anybody else's in the history of the show. And then Ankelaif, he says he's a very

very scary man. I feel many fighters will try to avoid him, which is probably right. So who do you think, A.K., which sort of prospect on the rise do you have your eye on that you feel confident could be fighting for a world title in the next couple of years? Oh, I mean, well, some of it's relative to weight class. Obviously, the heavier you go, it's a little bit easier to pick out guys who could become a title contenders soon. And this doesn't mean, like, legitimate title challengers, like guys that I think could actually win the title because the first thing in the jumps my mind would be talking about. And he's 3 and O in the UFC.

He's been finishing guys in the first round. So they've done really good job with matching for him. He's cleared out. He's been wiping out all the guys he's supposed to wipe out. So we'll see. But he's really on kind of that City Lagan fast track kind of the way they're booking him. So I could definitely see him challenging for a title within honestly as if he keeps up a good schedule like as like by the end of 2022.

That's how that's how well I think they booked him. But I mean, how good is he? I don't know. I probably need to see more of him. It's hard to judge when he's just smoking everyone in the first round. But, yeah, that's probably a pretty easy guess. Again, it's heavyweight. Though he will be stalled by the constant log gem up there.

So that's the other problem. Who knows? He could win like four times in 2022. And we can still be doing this Francis, Cediel, John Jones, Stevie Miotich dance. And so he has that working against him, unfortunately. In the other divisions that could compete for a title. I'm trying to look.

guys who only have like three fights or no more than three fights that are actually prospects and not just guys because i just look i was looking like dricus duplice he's not a prospect he's a he's just a good fighter who's new to the ufc i like andre munis i just don't know if i see him challenging for a title necessarily in the next couple of years i feel like there's going to be some setbacks in there some stylistic matchups i didn't bump him back uh oh you know what you know who else say. I don't really consider this guy a prospect, but I love, I'm such a fan of Daniel Rodriguez. Yeah. I think Darren Rodriguez, not really a prospect per se, if anything, he's already had 60 OC fights. He's kind of a name, but he's also a guy who hasn't broken to that top 15,

but I feel like he's poised to. I would not be shocked at all if by 2023, sorry, the end of 2023, Daniel Rodriguez got himself a title shot. I don't know how the welterweight, you know, the top will look by then. But Daniel Rodriguez has all. the skills, I think, to be a title challenger. So that would be him and Tom Aspinall, probably my top two choices. Featherweight and Bantamate are so deep. I'm not even going to guess.

They're so deep. Honestly, there's a lot of prospects I like in there. None that I'd be confident saying that they'll get a title shot. Yeah, I would say, I mean, if we're looking at some of the, I mean, I think Ilya could fight for a title. I don't know if he'll get there in two years, but he could definitely fight for a title.

I mean, this dude is no joke. I mean, he didn't fight Ryan Hall like expected, but he was scheduled and things happened and so forth and so forth. I will say, and I know she's not a prospect. I mean, I think like once you get to the UFC, you almost lose the prospect tag. And this fighter, I think she's had five fights in the UFC already, but she's done them in different weight classes.

She's now in the strawweight division, but I could definitely see her fighting. Rosnami Eun is or whoever the champion is in two years. Amanda Lamos, man. I mean, I truly think she has a very good chance. I'm not only fighting for a title, but winning a title in two years. Like, if she can get, if she just gets in that fight, she could definitely win.

She's that good. I have that much faith in her that she could fight a top five fighter in this division right now. She could go in there, top five is maybe a little stretch. She could go in there right now and fight Nina Nunes and beat her. I feel very confident in that. He's a very good chance of winning that fight. That is the Mike Heck

endorse stamp of approval for Mandelaimosh as a future contender. Yeah, I'll go with her and yeah. And then obviously, but I mean, again, like if we're going like actual prospects and maybe this is recency bias, but I felt this way

and I even posted our Slack channel yesterday when I had his interview ready to go, I said Dave, Davion Franklin is a guy who could fight for a bell to a world title, maybe even next year, like maybe sometime in 2022. He just annihilated this dude. And yeah, I mean, there are 15 and O's and they're created differently. But I mean, Ever Cummings doesn't matter.

He went in there, had 15 wins and finished like all of them in the first round. And it's not like he fought 0 in 35 fighters. They're fighters with winning records. Davian went in there and just smash this guy in 28 seconds. And that was no, that's no easy feat. And then he's only 4-0. I think this. And then he goes out and calls out Czech Congo.

before his fifth professional fight, I loved that callout. I loved it. He's got the gift of Gab. He's very good with interviews. He's got a great story. I think Bellator has something with him. And I think if they could keep him active and he can get three or four more fights before the end of 2022, I think there's a very good chance he could fight for the heavyweight title. Yeah, that spot is right for the picking. And I think, I think Davion is as strong or candid as any. He certainly lived. There was a lot of hype going to that fight on Friday, and boy, he really, to say he lived up to it,

it's probably an understatement. I want to go back to featherweight just for one second. This is the names of guys who are undefeated in the UFC. Arnold Allen, 8 and O. Giga Chacazza, 6 and O. Bryce Mitchell, 5 and 0, 14 and O in his career. Toporria, 3 and 0, 11 and O in his career. Lorone Murphy is undefeated.

This division is just straight up ridiculous. ridiculous. Like this is insanely strong division. Like anywhere from like the top like 50, there's like not a single matchup where like a quote unquote easy matchup, that's a ridiculous division. We talk about Bantamweight a lot kind of becoming, you know, I think the best division in M.A. right now. But Featherway has not lost its spot.

Like if you, if people have long considered Featherway to be one of the top three divisions in MMA, it's still there. It's still there. It's as strong as ever. I think it's right up there with lightweight. Damn. Yeah, that's a really good division. Really good division.

And Josh Emmett hasn't even fought in over a year. Oh, my gosh, right? He's still around. Three straight wins, seven and two in the UFC. My goodness. Yeah, and Bryce Mitchell's been out almost a year. I think October 31st was the last time he fought. He's been dealing with some injuries.

What a division? Yeah, we've only seen Cater as and fought since the beginning of the year. Holloway isn't fought since the beginning of the year. Man, it's just so good. It's just such a good division. We are spoiled. We are very spoiled. We are spoiled.

Good question, Tristan, as always. When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game. You bring your AI game. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money, and agents, so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward. What else you got, A.K., I think you're taking the reins the rest of the way. Okay, all right, let me see what else we got here.

We got some people also just throwing out some matchmaking money. You know, we said, hey, if anyone's... got, oh, here's a good one. For Corner Sports, NY, coming in with, you know, Sean Brady, he had to pull out of his fight with Kevin Lee. So what do you do? What do you do with matchmaking for Sean Brady? So what do you do for Sean Brady, you know, when he's back and ready, ready to go?

Let's say we're moving on, moving off from the Kevin Lee fight. That is a good question. I don't know if they will move on from the Kevin Lee fight. It all depends on what happens. I mean, D.Rod is, if D.Rod wins, he probably does. deserves to fight a guy like Sean Brady who's ranked right now. I believe Brady's like number 13. I don't think he passes him.

I don't think he passes him. Brady is number 13 in the UFC's official rankings? I'm pretty sure. Really? Let me pull it up real quick. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah, it's Brady is 14.

Excuse me. He's 14. Okay. But he is top 15 ranked in the UFC. Brady's top 15 guy. Oh, okay. Kevin Lee is a top 15 guy in a different division. At lightweight, right?

Right. So, yeah, I think Brady, Brady could easily get the winner of this fight, and it's a very intriguing matchup. D-Rod versus Sean Brady is very interesting, because one of those guys is going to have to take a step back, and they're both really, really good. But I feel like what Brady does really,

what D-Rod does really well, Brady is getting better at, and what Brady does really well, I think he does that far and away better than D-Rod does, which makes the fight interesting. But stays on the feet, it's D-Rod has the advantage, but if it goes to the ground,

massive advantage for Sean Brady massive advantage. So I like that matchup. You could go back to the Lee one. Yeah, I think I'm fine with that. Or you could do Brady versus Santiago Ponziubio. There's options for him. But I would kind of just

I would just kind of like to see him get the winner of Kevin Lee versus Daniel Rodriguez depending on when he can come back. Very logical. Could we do him and Tim Means? Yeah. Yeah, that's a big, that's a big experience gap. But again, I think Brady's at that point where we want to see him maybe taking on some recognizable names and building his names off of them.

Not that I'm saying Tim Means a walkover by any stretch, but I think Brady would probably be at least a two to one favorite in that matchup. Should it be made? Yeah. I mean, Brady's debut is against Court McGee, and that's a pretty experience, dude. That's pretty good. Yeah, Tim Means three straight wins. I like that. I'll go to me.

I think your suggestion is what's most likely to happen, but just to throw an alternative out there, I'll say The Dirty Bird. It's going to be a fun fight for The Dirty Bird. I'm sure he'd love to, would love to derail a hype train, as it were. Yeah. From Scott McCraight, he says, we got to see Cruz versus Aldo.

He wants to punt Covington in favor of Vicente Lucke versus Kamar Usman. Luca has been saying recently that he is very interested in that matchup, so we'll see. And then you has a bonus question, which I was doing a little bit of research, Mike, but I don't have the exact answer to. How many Darshchoked submissions have there been in the history of the UFC? Oh, for a Lord God's sake. Can you, I have a, what would be your guess? What would be your guess?

Seven. Okay, definitely more. Again, I can say this because I did, I was looking, I did look at this question ahead of time. 17. 17 is much closer. I know so as of a January 2016 article on UFC.com, there was 15. So this was by January 2016, there was 15. Now I know since then, Vecente Luka himself has had four.

He has the UFC record. And that's the record. Vigente Leuke has the most with four. So it's at least 19. I think, oh, Taran Woodley had one since then with his win over Daryntill. So we're definitely at at least 20. I think 20 Vergas had all of his before that day. Yes, all his dark strokes were up to that point.

So we're at around, oh no, sorry, he had one after. He had one after. So we're over 21. So Mike, and this is Jen, just sort of the biggest names, guys who have like holding records and stuff. So we're around, my guess would be around 25. If anyone, again, any listeners out there, if you know the exact number, please let me know. But yeah, the number should be around 25. It's very rare.

It's very rare. The first one ever was done by Kendall Grove, UFC, 69. And that wasn't until 2007. Wow. So if you think about it, I mean, I know if you look like 2007, I was like 15 years ago, it's like, it's like, that's still relatively like it took a long time compared to every other submissions that we saw. So, so yeah, I'd say about 25, Scott. But if you, Scott, if you know the answer and this is like a trivia question. Yeah, please.

Please give us the answer. I do not. I do not keep a. Comprehensive database that sort of thing unfortunately Michael Carroll Michael Carroll I bet would probably know Oh, here's a good question Mike. This is a business question from Torbjorn at top Resch on Twitter. Would you guys be interested in starting up a Patreon to carry on the A-side and other content loss from The prodigal return of Ariel Hawani and possibly the development of new projects? We don't really need to do Do you want to? Yeah, I don't I don't think we need to do that

I think there's I think there's ways where we could still do similar things in different areas. Like we tried, for instance, during the main event and the co-main event of UFC 265, we jumped on Twitter spaces and just did a cool thing. Like we could do that. Like we could do, you know, you could do like a quick 30 minute A-side type thing and just tag people in to show up their questions. And like if you really wanted the content or it can be done. The thing with Patreon, and I get why people do Patreon. I thought about doing a Patreon myself before I came on MMA fighting. It's an extra way to make some money and get some bonus content and you can do it for cheap and get all that stuff.

My thing, and I think a lot of my colleagues, AKA you included, would agree with this. We don't want to have people pay for our content. Like, we don't want you to pay for it. I think, I don't like to get, you know, I don't want to get too inside baseball or too much how the sausage is made with our jobs. everything. Well, first of all, I want to know Mike and Jose still work for MMA fighting. Yes, yes, by the way. That's a very important note. I don't know if there's this misconception that like, because your shows, we're doing a little bit of changing and programming and yes, the A side, as we know it is no longer on and what

the heck is, as we know it is no longer on. You're still doing plenty of interviews, Mike, for M.A. fighting. Jose is still going to be, is still doing social stuff and we'll probably work on some other kind of programming. M.A. Fighting is actually very good about, like I said, we're just changing things. We're not, it wasn't like things are necessarily getting canceled per se. And M.A. Fentangang has actually been

very good about sort of, again, giving us time and resources to try and work on some new projects. So it would be, yeah, as Mike used you said, it'd be very unfair of us to try and, like, start a Patreon on the side for, for other projects when M.A. Fighting is still sort of supporting us in that sense.

So, yes. It's a great question. I'm glad for the concern. I know a lot of listeners are sort of wondering the same thing. But no, if anything, we still have plenty of time to work. You guys will probably be seeing new things on the podcast and on the video docket. So don't worry about that, but very much appreciated. Yeah.

Our programming is not going anywhere. It is just different permutations of things. And onto the next one, by the way, definitely is not going anywhere. Yeah, it is the flagship. Planted in the sand. It is the flagship show. Just continues to grow. So, yes, again, just to reiterate, not going anywhere.

I'm probably going to be doing more content than ever before with this new schedule. BTL has a new day. Wednesday is going to be really fun. In a couple weeks, Thursday is going to be awesome, I will not say, but it will be awesome. This coming Thursday will also be awesome. We're debuting something that I've been working on for a while, and it's insane. And I think you guys will dig that. Plus, we have so many different ideas in the works right now that you guys are going to love.

So don't you worry about that. The interviews will still be happening. Like, nothing really changes. Just Ariel's back and that's great for everybody. And now we're adding new things. Now we can develop things that we've wanted to develop for a while. And things are happening. And it's all good.

I promise you. So for the lovers, for the haters, Mike's not going anywhere. All right. Just does notice now. Mike's not going anywhere. That's right. before I move into some DMs, I should have mentioned some, I should have done some house cleaning from stuff last week. Mike, I asked for Francis Nganoo Cedil Gahn hashtags.

Yes. I was like, Nganu gone, Ngan Gond, Ngan, Ghan, Ingan, Fran Cyril, I don't know. I don't know. And it got a couple of good responses. people like someone liked inganu they think that's a good one i don't know i think it's a little unclear it's not my favorite and then uh pound d on twitter said hashtag france on france crime okay sure and then uh our guy in denmark took girding jensen with when ghan beats ingano it will be hashtag the french dispatch so a very uh classy classy hashtag by toks so thank you

So guys, I mean, you know, look, that fight's not official yet. We have plenty of time to come up with a good hashtag. Mike, what was your, what was your favorite? I went with Ingonu. You like Engan, that's right. That's right. You rolled your eyes. Well, I think that one when you say it, it's not clear enough.

I think it looks, I think you're right. I think it looks good as a hashtag, but it's one of like, you can't really say it. It's hard to say. Yeah. It's hard to say, like, clearly. Yeah. I like in Gondon, because it's just so fun to say. It's like salsa.

In Gondon. Yeah. I think that might have to be it. I think that's probably the one I would lean towards. I could say some friends, serial supporters out there, kind of Benefer type thing. I could, you know, Benefer's back, Mike. That's right.

And I also want to read a nice message from a not-so-nice man on Twitter. Leifes-choke 67, his name's Jim Leahy, and his Twitter, so Leifes-choke 67, his Twitter, his Instagram photo is a custom-made Montreal-Canadians jersey with the number 67 on the back and Leafs suck. So I apologize to my fellow Torontonians, but he had a very nice message. She said, he said, I'm a complete sound whore for M.A. podcast.

I listen to them 40 to 50 hours a week during work hours. That can't be good for productivity, Mike. Wow. He says, Otno is the go-to on Monday mornings to get the week going and to finish digesting last week's cards slash cards before looking ahead. So the timing is quite perfect. and he's just a lot of other comments, Mike, for you and for myself. So thank you, Jim.

Stop hating on the Leaps. Bruins rule. Leafs suck. I agree with you, Jim. No, Jim, I think we can both agree that the Bruins can eat it. So there we go. You know what, Jim, I think we found common ground. I think we found common ground.

Oh, how dare you. All right, all right, all right, back to the questions. On Twitter, DMs, DILIT at Rick Snip 277. Two questions. First, Mike, I don't know if you'll, if you're, if you're down, with this product right now, but what do you think of CM Punk and Brian Daniel Daniel Brian possibly joining AEW? Do you have any thoughts on that way? Listen, I'm not saying I'm not a huge AEW fan.

You're an old school guy. Yeah, I'm not a huge AEW fan. I've given it, I've given it a shot. I've watched Dynamite maybe three or four times. And it's just too much. It's just too much. And a lot of people are like, well, how can you like late 90s, early 2000s, WW, but not like AEW. It's the same thing. No, it is not the same thing. Everybody's in a faction. Everybody's in a group. Every match is 35 minutes.

Like, it drives me crazy. Oh. It just drives you nuts. Like, it's just not, it's just, you're not a fan. It's not a digestible show. It's not just you haven't watched it. You're not a fan. There's not, like, there's a lot of very talented people.

I think the booking is very, very questionable. Like, I just, I feel like, I feel like A.EW does a nice job putting together a product. The matches are entertaining. I feel like the show is booked horribly every single week. It just makes no sense. Now, CM Punk and Brian Danielson, you bring them in the mix, you best believe I'll be watching every Wednesday.

And it seems to me, just from everything that I've read and people that I've talked to who work in the industry, it seems like it's a done deal. Like, this is going to happen. We're going to see both of these guys. AW in the next couple of months. And I think it's a very good thing. And I think it's great. I mean, this is huge.

Who would have thought CM Punk would be wrestling again? This is a very big deal. And CM Punk's going to make a lot of money. He's going to work with who he wants to work with. He's going to do things his way. And AW and Tony Con are not going to get in his way. And Brian Danielson, like some of the matches he can have, I'm very excited.

I think it's a very good thing. I just hope AEW doesn't do anything dumb and put them in a faction and just like just let them work and have great matches, have good stories, and I'll be happy. Don't ruin them. Don't ruin them. Don't ruin them. They haven't ruined anybody. This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous.

The one thing I think they're good at is not putting guys in ridiculous positions and letting them just work and do their best to work. But I do watch it a lot more frequently. I will say, I'm a stand, and you've now stirred the AEW Hive, Mike, you are not, I am not at responsibility to, you should, you could have just said, I'm not the interest in the product, but you had to, you had to go in on it. And I respect your opinion, Mike, but I am not the internet wrestling community. They are not as understanding as I am. So I will say this, please, my fellow AEW fanatics, do not, do not go at Mike on, on Twitter,

all right, let him, he is, I respect his opinion, he's watched, been watching wrestling for a long time. I think he's wrong here But I was like You know it's funny I always So I'm pretty good at calling When guys will Guys or gals will

Ever come out of retirement I knew I always knew George St. Pierre Was it to come back After the Johnny Hendr's fight I stuck with that for years People laughed at me

I said he was gonna fight again I was right on that one Rhonda Rousey Jury's still out That looks unlikely I felt very confident She would fight again Even after the

Getting like the getting embarrassed by men Nunez. I was so confident she would fight again someday. Now I'm starting to realize that's probably not going to happen. So maybe wrong on that one. Habib jury's out. I do think he'll fight again someday. At CM Punk,

I was sure would wrestle again someday, but I thought he would mend fences with WWE and go back there. But also, this was before AEW existed. There's like before I thought there would be any sort of reasonable alternative to go to. I thought like he's going to want to wrestle again someday or be involved in it. And I mean, WBs

where all the money is. there's no such thing as a permanently burnt bridge in pro wrestling even with the WWE you can always go home again so I thought he would do that so it's very cool that him and yes and yes Brian Danielson are going to AW so I'm excited for that fingers crossed I'll be in Chicago next month to maybe see the CM Punk debut but travel restrictions COVID I don't know we'll see but people I got I got tickets for for those shows so reach out to me now I'll let you know if they become available Second question, back to MMA, back to MAA.

Also from Dillon, would you rather see, and this is a good question for you, because you've been trumpeting one of these matchups for a long time, would you rather see Max Holloway versus A.J. McKee, or Holloway versus Justin Gathe. You can only pick one. I'll up the ante. You can only pick one,

and then the second one is guaranteed to never happen, which I guess isn't that hard because we're probably never going to. Actually, no, I shouldn't say that. If McKee ever comes to the UFC, it'll definitely happen. So, yes, in this scenario, you can only pick one, Mike, and the other one is forever will never be booked. It's a gaugie fight. It's definitely the gauge you fight.

Really? Oh, yeah. Because, I mean, listen. So in on that. You're so in on it. I'm so in on it. And like you said, and I'm weighing in the fact that I believe A.J. McKee will fight in the UFC someday. I don't think, I just don't, I'm already upset with how Bellator has handled this whole situation.

Like, what is A.J. McKee doing right now? Why is he not on every single television show? Why are they not sending him on the media tour? Like, everybody, everybody. every sports fan should know his name. He should have been on SportsCenter doing interviews. 1,000%. I don't like what they're doing already.

The UFC did more for Michael Chandler in the first three weeks he signed with them than Bellator ever did with Michael Chandler. Like, he was a bigger star not fighting at UFC 254 than he ever was in Bellator. Like they just, they put the promotional push behind him. And people started to believe, like, this could be. the guy. I can't wait to see him fight. Because when he signed, people are like, oh, Michael Chandler's here. He can't compete. But UFC made people believe that he could. And he went out there and beat Dan Hooker. It was just the perfect storm of everything. I think if AJ McKee gets to the UFC, they'll do the same thing with him. They will build him up proper and do what Bellator has somehow

not been able to do. Like Scott Coker can go out in front of the media after a show and be like, AJ McKee's the best fighter in the world. But like, nobody really knows that outside. of the people who are watching Bellator. Like, nobody else knew from the MMA space who are just UFC fans know who A.J. McKee is now than they did heading into the Petrcio Pitbull

fight. It's crazy. I think they dropped the ball big time. So I think A.J. will end up in the UFC. And let's just be clear, how many fights does Justin Gachie have left? Like, how many? How many wars can this guy go through? He could probably go through four, five, maybe six

more. But, That's, I mean, that's a big ask with the style that he brings to the table. He's not going to be fighting Habib every single time. He's going to be like, you know what? I care about this guy. His parents are here. I'm going to put him in a triangle instead of trying to rip his arm off. It's just not going to happen.

Michael Chandler is going to try to bash his head in. So that's where I'm at. I want to see Holloway Gaichy before the time runs out. I think there will be a day. Probably the next three years we will see Max Holloway versus Adrian McKee in the UFC. I'll lean towards the Holloway-McKee matchup, though I do like what you're saying about Holloway-Ga-Ga-Gh-Gh-Gh-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-T. And oh gosh, he's just getting like Flash-Koed.

I hope, again, I hope he retires where that day comes. He seems to be making a good amount of money now, and again, I hope he's, you know, it's enough and that he's saving up. And I don't want to see that day. I'm thinking, of course, the worst-case scenario will always be like Chuck Ladell, who the last three fights of his. like I may career oh and it's sorry and including the the Tito Ortiz trilogy about utterly macabre um and I don't want to see that happen at Justin Gatj so but I'll lean towards

Holloway McKee I just think uh the best version of Holloways at 145 oh actually but I guess I guess in this question who knows may McKee by the time he comes the UFC says I'm a 155er and we don't see him compete at 145 anymore so I'll still lean towards Halloween McKee I just it's a fresh it's just fresher in my mind um I've just never had Holloway Gaichi lined up like you have though you've made many many compelling arguments for that bout but I'll just go the other way with it for I don't know for the sake of the show I feel like a guy like Holloway yeah he fights in the featherweight division but I don't think he really cares he just wants to challenge and I feel like Gaetchi would would get him out of bed and be like

oh damn I want to fight this guy like I really want to fight this guy this would be fun it's the Nissan Black Friday event where you can wait wait isn't like a month long now? Nissan Blackfri month? Does that work? It's the Nissan Black Frye Month event. On remaining 2025 Rogan Centra, get 0% financing.

Plus, get $1,000 Nissan bonus on kicks models. This Black Friday, you've got a whole month to catch all the exclusive offers waiting for you. See your local Nissan dealer or Nissan.ca for details. Conditions apply. Like I said, I wasn't going to read any

troll questions, but I got one here. This guy will not leave me alone. He's the worst. This name's Cole Shelton. I don't know if you've heard of this guy. Cole Shelton at Cole Shelton 91. He has, he's a writer. He writes for BJPen.com and so many other websites.

He's a talented young reporter. He's a troll. And he said, why is A.K. Lee so bad between the links. I seriously want this answer. I have blocked him since. So he will not. Yeah, so he'll have to listen to the show

to get the response. He's been blocked. Mike, you know I love you and I love all in my fighting programming. I should let people know. Here's more inside baseball. This is a very in behind the scenes episode. I hate, I hate debating stuff. I do not enjoy it.

I am not a debate person. I'm such a pushover. Such a, oh, well, let me hear, you know, oh, yes, you know, someone makes a point. Okay, I see that. You know, I see, I don't might not agree, but I see your point. So I've had moments I mean Jed certainly brings out the worst in me Oh yeah

So I can be I mean I can I can be fiery when it comes to it Especially when it's when I see a you know A great evil in front of me But generally I hate debating So I don't mind doing the show Because it's fun to talk

And it's fun to you know Just go about the issues of the day But I never go I rarely go in expecting to win And I'm more than happy to To not be on the show If other guests step up But yes

So, Cole, again, if you're listening, it's all me, man. It's not the show. It's just I have confidence and issues, and I just do not. I don't like arguments. Mike, I'm not an argumentative person. Yeah, and that is an unfair question because AK is very good at the show. And, you know, he's the baby face for sure. But like AK said, I don't remember what were we talking about?

where he just, you guys went at it. It was tremendous. It got ugly. I don't recognize myself. Yeah, it was really good. I'm trying to remember what it was. That wasn't me. Oh, it was, I remember what it was.

It was when Sean O'Malley was going to fight Chris Boutinho. Yeah. And you loved it. He hated it. Yeah. Yep. That was a phenomenal. That was one of the best episodes ever.

That's not me. That wasn't me. That wasn't me. I mean, Jed didn't even know what to do. Because you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop. Stop, stop, stop. It was amazing. Anyway, thank you for the question, Cole.

If we ever go ice fishing, I'm going to push you into the hole. Zach Hughes with a question for us. First of all, shout out. Duval. Secondly, he also says, love the show. Thanks for all of you that we do for the M.M.M.A. community. I love them guys say stuff like that. Mike, is it time to finally give, this is always a monthly question?

Is it time to finally give Sean O'Malley a big. your name, step up in competition, is it too much of a risk of his star power at this point? If so, who would you guys want to match up with? He says he'd go with Edgar or Asun Sal. Mike, what do you think for Amali? Is it time and who? Yeah, I know we were talking about Canadian reporters that people might not recognize. You mentioned Cole Shelton.

There's another one that I'm going to bring up. I don't know if you've heard of a M. A.K. Area Hawani, I don't know if you've heard of this gentleman. No. Yeah, I haven't either. I'll check it. I'll check it out.

I'll check it out. I haven't either. But from what I do know, when he reports something, there's usually some smoke to the fire. He reported that the UFC is trying to make a fight between Sean O'Malley and Frankie Edgar. I don't know. I mean, I assume with this guy, since he's got an incredible record of not being wrong, that maybe they will do that. I think that fight makes a lot of sense.

The most sensical fight was the Cody Gar-brand fight, and the UFC should have done everything to try to make that fight happen. I understand Cody's going to drop to 125. And if he wins, you know, maybe he'll fight for a title where he'll lose to Brandon Moreno more than likely. But I don't know. I just felt like for where Cody's at in his career, it made way more sense to try to beat Sean O'Malley. Because it went over Sean O'Malley just means a lot right now. With his name and the following he has, it would mean a lot.

and Cody would probably get into like top three contention in the UFC's eyes if he beat Sean O'Malley. So yeah, I mean, if you want to do Frankie Edgar, fine. It's an interesting fight. Frankie has been in these positions before, taking on these young bucks, these up-and-comers who a lot of people feel like, well, start Frankie Edgar. And what happens? He goes out there and like finish his dude in the first round. So I don't know if that would happen here. I don't love the matchup for Frankie just because of what we see.

saw in the Sanhagen fight. But listen, when you're in the UFC and you're in this position and you have a career and a resume like Frankie Edgar's, sometimes you're going to have to fight these super dangerous guys, and I'm fine with that. Like, I don't like the Sunsel fight that much.

If you're going to do a Sunsaul, just do it to rematch a Cheeto. I'd rather see that than a Sunsau fight because a Sunsau hasn't been able to make it to the Octagon in quite some time. So, yeah, if you undo Frankie, that's fine. But I don't hate the font idea either. I don't hate it. Font threw his name out. I loved the call. I thought the call was absolutely perfect. And if font just happens to be the odd man out of this equation between Sanhagen and Aldo and Dilleshaw and the title, Fond versus O'Malley sounds just fine with me. You know what I mean? Like it's a risky fight for Font, but it's also with what's available. I think it's a more meaningful fight than anything else you'd get realistically right now if he is the odd man out of this type.

conversation. I think Fondt is a risky fight for the UFC. I think he could really bad, and I think O'Malley's really talented, but I think Font could really badly derail that O'Malley hype train. So I think Edgar probably the more logical choice. It would make me sad if Edgar got like knocked, just from spinning back kick to the head again. But again, like you said, I also like his chances too, like seeing him beat O'Malley would be a lot of fun for me. So I probably lean towards the Edgar one. Again, I think Font is a step above both guys right now, and that he can make O'Malley look really bad. I don't think the UFC would want that. But I do, again, these are all in play. None of these matchups would surprise me if they were booked. I think the only thing that

would have a lot of fans kind of shaking their heads is if it was, you know, another short notice replacement, like a Mutineo out of nowhere. But again, what can you do about that, right? Right. This is probably a longer question, Mike, but I think you can give you guys a little bit of help. at Poundown Podcast Oh, I'm sorry, at Poundown Pcast on Twitter. I want to get their addressed rights. People want to look them up.

But they're the Pound Town podcast. They want to know, you know, they've started a podcast, but how do you have any tips or insight on successfully starting one, sort of getting new listeners? And, well, first of all, like I said, give you guys a shout out in the show, Pound Town Podcast. Jimmy and Dillon, don't make me regret this. They're on Spotify.

And again, guys look them up on Twitter. Mike, you would know more about this than I do. What's kind of the tip to getting started just from the bottom and now we're, you know, now we're here. Just do it and just do it consistently. That's the best piece of advice I can give you. If you say you're going to do something, if you say, hey, this show's happening at least once a week, you best put out a show once a week because consistency is how people are going to get to know you. If you expect people to just listen to your show on week one, week two, week three, and then just like, yeah, no one's listening. I'm done. That's a terrible idea. Don't do that. If you really want to do this and just think of it like,

just think of it in this way. You're not going to get the listeners right off the bat. It's just not going to happen unless you land a whale, which don't even try to do that because it's not worth it. You're just going to stress yourself out and then you have nothing to do. But just have fun. Like if it's you and your friend and like other friends and you're talking to M.A., just like, just do that. Just do that and have fun with it. And if people listen great, and eventually if you continue to do it and you're consistent with everything and you do what you say you're going to do, then people will start listening. So that would be, that would be my advice. That is the best piece of advice that I could give you. Just do it, do what you say you're going to do and be consistent. Don't miss weeks. Don't leave

spaces, figure it out and get something on the air for people to listen to. Yeah. And I'll go with, I know this is how Mike did it. Like you got to build up your contacts. You got to, you can't be, like you said, don't necessarily go out to try and go after those big fish. If you have fighters in your area, that's a great way to start. Mike. I know you have, you know, so many fighters and managers and coaches in the New England area. And, you know, again, and I know you didn't get into interviewing these guys thinking like, oh, I'm just going to interview this guy because I hope. Someday. It's like, no, you interview every fighter and treat them with respects.

If they become big someday, great. You know, there's a payoff later. But otherwise, it's just good to hear people's stories and, you know, work on your interview skills. Like Mike said, just do it. Because every interview, whether it's freaking Francis and Ghanu or some 4-0 guy on the regional scene, you're going to learn something from it, right? So that's big. So that's, yeah, definitely, like you said, it's consistency, getting the reps. And I'll add this in.

At some point, it's great to be a fan. You're going to have to separate your, whatever you use your public account for, your Twitter account. separate your fandom from your professional life because I know many I should say many I know a few aspiring podcasters who I thought had a lot of potential but at some point maybe they got they started getting a little bit big and started using their voice to like like like be very like call out fighters and things like that and you just want to be careful with that you want to be have an opinion you certainly want to be known um for something um and and and sometimes you're you can get away with it. Like, like, Robbie Barstool has made his whole persona out of being this, like, McGregor superfan, and that's great for him. But again, you kind of have to get to a certain point before you do something like that. So until you reach a level where you're working with like a barstool or something like that, you need to, again, kind of be measured in your fandom. So yes, have an opinion. But don't try to become a hot take person. Don't try to be like, oh, we're going to have this, you know, say something that goes viral. Just be you. Just be normal. Maybe rein in some of your more radical tendencies if you have those.

And be professional. So consistency, reliability, and be nice to people. Gosh, be nice. It takes you so far in this business. I'll tell you right now. Mike helped me out a lot

when I was coming up in this industry. He didn't have to, but Mike had me on shows like between the links before. I was on in May fighting. And that helped me a lot. So be nice to people. And I'll tell you, who knows. Hopefully guys, Pound Town podcast.

We see you in the M.A. circle. And we're talking to you on one of these shows someday. So good luck with it. boys good luck yes absolutely good for you yeah all right Mike I know we got with three questions left something's are pretty in-depth so for Graham McCullough I'm sorry I'm gonna cut one of these questions I'm gonna give it a quick he was just one of them is just related to ESPN saying are we frustrated when we see guys like Max Kellerman

Steven A Smith Ryan Clark like ESPN associated guys get better coverage because of their association with the you know ESPN rather than necessarily being fans of MMA it I'll say quickly it doesn't bother me I'm not a fan of some of these guy's analysis for sure but that's just the nature of the game they're an affiliate of the ufc there's no there's no i know why they're talking why cemn a smith's talking to this guy i know why max killermans has his platform so that's fine that doesn't bother me mike i don't know about you yeah none of that stuff bothers me they're they are i mean they're they are partners with the ufc they are the broadcast partner of the ufc so there's certain things that like

there's certain things surrounding that that that kind of frustrate me me and I won't go into those specifically. But yeah, I mean, they're the broadcast partner. They get the interviews. They get the spotlight. And oftentimes they get the scoops. They get the big fight scoops thrown right at them. And they get all the credit for it.

Like that's what happens when you're the broadcast partner. They feed you that information. So, and good for them. They've earned the right. They work their asses off to get to where they're at. So I have no issue with it whatsoever. It doesn't bother me. I can do my job right here, right in my little chair here.

I don't need to travel anywhere. I need to go to a fancy studio. I can do it right here. So no, I'm not frustrated. It doesn't make me crazy. That's just part of being a broadcast partner of the UFC. And that's it. Two, one, fire.

Yeah, yeah, Graham, there's no drama there. Again, we can disagree with some of the, you know, the presentation and some of these guys. opinions but there's definitely no like envy or you know like oh why are they getting this that's the biz that's the biz that's like second part of his question kind of related again this is this is a for me the answer would just be that's the biz he just wants to know michael bisping he's kind of like this is this gram is framing this someone who like doesn't is not like on the complaining about fighter pay bandwagon a bisming he says like bisping whenever the topic of fighter pay comes up will kind of deflect and go to like well when i was coming up you know

We were fighting for a hot dog and $500, that, so Graham's question is like, is this simply that he's a homer because he's still kind of paid by the UFC? Or do you think that he really believes that the current fighter pay is fair? I'll say first, guys like Bissping and fighters in general, you got to remember guys, they're going to have a perspective, especially guys who've been fighting as long as he did, who started in the early 2000s and what have you, are going to have a very different perspective than fans, then us in the media. they've just lived through certain things and they're going to process them way differently. So I have a lot of respect for Michael Bisping's opinions in general. I don't necessarily agree with him on fighter pay. I don't agree with him sort of recently.

He's not really sympathetic towards athletes who say they're kind of dealing with some mental issues. He came up with Simone Biles. And another fighter who had, there was a fight that was happening when one of the fighters said, I don't know if it was Sean Strickland. like they had recently, they'd become, they'd gone through some sort of, like spoken to a sports psychiatrist or something to sort of rebound and come back.

And Michael Bissing kind of didn't understand that. But again, he's from a different background and perspective. So that's kind of my thoughts on that. Mike, do you think that he's a bit of a homer, at least when it comes to the issue of fighter pay? Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of with you. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty much with you on everything you just said. It's tough with Bisman because he does have a different. perspective.

Like, this is a guy who literally, like, just crawled from the bottom and became a UFC champion. So he looks at things way differently. The ultimate fighter was such a massive opportunity for him, and he made the most of it. And just being in the UFC and the money he made just on that ultimate fighter contract was probably, like, way more than, like, way more than he had ever made in his career by a country miles. So I do also think that part of him is a homer.

and the other thing is like until the fighters come together nothing's ever going to change so we get sit there and talk about fighter pay and how it's not fair and I think we're all in agreement that it's pretty awful but listen it's up to them to get this to get something rolling here and they just are not doing it so nothing's going to change until you come out and try to change it yourself I can't change it AK can't change it. Michael Bisbing can't even change it for you. So maybe Bisbing in his own fighter way is trying to get the fighters to step up and do something about it. Because until that happens, we're going to have the same conversation for the next 10 years.

And it sucks, but that's where we're at. Yeah, yeah, that's, I know, I agree. Just a couple more, Mike. Jake Salke on Twitter just wants to say he's got a matchmaker for us. He says he wants to see Davian Franklin versus Saeed Soma. Do you think Franklin's passed Soma at this point? Soma just beat Ronnie Marks. Do you think Franklin's above that?

I think that's kind of the good. I think he's one-in-one in Beltor. I think that's a good logical. I think if they can book that fight quickly, I think Frank will be fine with it. I don't think he cares about, I mean, the Congo is about to fight himself at the end of the month, right? That South Dakota card. So I like that idea.

but if fran i mean hell franklin wants to turn back around they can make that fight like on that card or maybe the september card with with joel and phil davis yeah i think you'd take it as long as it's something he can jump on quick and get another win i think he's fine with that he just wants to stay active and fight and build his way up to the top so soma's fine that's that's a fine fight i'm just glad to see people matchmaking for davy and franklin i think that's really cool so uh thanks Jake. And last one on Twitter from the UFC report. They just want, they said, okay, beyond the obvious matchups they want to see, like, is he Whitaker 2, DeBronk's and Porreier. He really wants see Leon Edwards and Jorge Mosidol. I agree the U.S. report. That, for me, that ship has not

sailed. That ship may never sail until both men are retired, for me, frankly. I still think you can make that fight happen whenever. Maybe it doesn't need to happen during Leon Edwards's current, like, crazy-ass wind streak. But I think it can happen someday. So I'm with. you on that one. Question. This was asked, by the way, before PFL on Friday. He wanted to know, he says, Rory is one of his favorite fighters ever, Roy McDonald. And if he announced that he was, well, this would be a different question now. He wants to know if Roy McDonald ended up going back to the UFC, who should he fight? So we'll start with that, Mike. And then obviously, I think we'll ask the logical question, who would Ray Cooper fight if he went to the UFC? But Rory

McDonald, let's say he's one and done with the PFL ends up back in the U.S. who would be a logical fight for him at this stage of his career the way he's performed lately it would have to be despite his recent downfalls he does have a name so it would have to be somebody that the UFC would attempt to put in kind of it would have to like be a win-win fight if rory won be like oh rory's back baby and if he lost it'd be like all right rory name put this person over. Brady's not a bad idea. Oh.

That might actually be... I don't want to see him use. I don't want to see them use. Rory is a stepping stone. I mean, what else can you do at this point? The other would be Bala Muhammad. Yeah, I like that one a little more. Yeah.

Those are the two. I'll go Condit. I'll go the Condit rematch. I'll go, I still think... I mean, that's when I think a lot of people thought would happen before Rory left the U.S. that that would be one of his fights. And then, of course, he surprisingly parted ways with the company.

So we didn't get to see that rematch. But the first fight was very, very, was exciting. It was a last-minute win for Condit. I'm sure Rory would love to get that one back. It was a fight that he was winning. And I think there are the stages of career where that would still be compelling. So I'll go with that. And then, yes, he's, you see, he reports it after.

Maybe I should have asked about Ray Cooper instead. Yeah, what do we do with Ray Cooper? He's kind of weird because he's such a short. welterweight but I think he's also got that like Tiago Alva's body where I don't think he could make 155 comfortably without like dramatically changing his body and probably making himself a less effective fighter so he is a welterweight um gosh what would be a good top 20 would you give him a top 20 opponent uh Mike let's say he wins the pfl tournament and has a lot of heat behind him and and he and he's done with the pfl there's only what answer to this question oh hit me it's

Nico Price. Oh. Why is Nico such a clear answer? Because Nico's awesome and he's crazy and Ray Cooper is a powerhouse and I think that's the fight. I don't think you can go wrong. I think I'm not going to say, Nico is a very good litmus test at Walter Waite. Like Walter Waite is in a different spot than some of these other divisions just because

there's so much talent and there's so much star power like throughout the division. Like you mentioned Condit and the Lawlers and now you get the Nick Diaz and such. So, yeah, Ray Cooper versus Deco Pris. Who is going to complain about that fight? That's a perfect debut fight. That's a great fight. You know what I think the UFC would do, though?

I think out of pettiness, they would try and book him to lose his first fight just to do the whole, almost like a Vincent McMahon. Like, I need to build them back from scratch. So I want to show that this guy from another league is not at the UFC level. I think this would look insane on paper, given their difference in UFC experience, but their records, pro records, are not that different.

I think they, like, withdraw them in there with Neil Magni or something. I think they would throw him in there with Neil Magny with the idea that Magny would win a pretty convincing decision over him. But, yeah, Magny v. 26th UFC fight versus someone making their debut. Stranger things have happened. I don't know. I just got a weird thing. And by the way, I don't expect Ray Cooper to go to the UFC anytime soon anyway.

But yeah, fun thought experiment. And he certainly has the talent to compete at the UFC level, Belator level. But if you can stay in PFL, keep making millions. Ray Cooper, I say you should have at it, man. If he wins a rematch with Megamette Karamov. Stay there. Keep going. Yep.

All right, Mike. Let's end with a quick... Oh, gosh, I really show his screen leads. Last one from Just Call Me Bob. He's got some rapid fires, Mike. Are you ready? Ready. Is your brain loose?

It's loose. All right. All right. He says, don't put too much thought of this, please. Like, pizza or tacos? Tacos. I'll go pizza. WC or Strike Force?

WC. I'm going to opposite. I'm going to strike force. Okay, I don't think we're going to upset all these. Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos? Oh. None. Zero.

Yeah. I mean, Elon Musk a little bit funnier, I guess, but they're both terrible. Oat milk or almond milk? Almond milk. Yeah, almond milk, I guess. What's oat? I've never had oat milk. Okay.

Casey likes oat milk, I think. Oh, definitely almond milk then. There you go. That settles that. Heel Connor gets worse or con, okay, okay, this is tough one. So Connor, I guess his behavior gets worse or he just retires. What would you rather see? Would I rather see him retire?

I don't want to see his behavior here worse. Yeah, I don't know anyone wants to retire. I don't think anyone wants to seem to work. Oh, this is easy. Lenno or Letterman. Letterman. Yeah, Letterman. Come on.

Fighters Union or no, would you rather, oh, this is an easy one too. Would you rather see a fighters union or no judging controversies? Oh, God. The first one. Yeah. Yeah. Union, man. Yeah.

We can't harp on the union thing enough. Fans wooing or fans booing? Oh, that's a good one. I'd probably take the booze over, honestly. Yeah, yeah. Boing is okay. I mean, if it's one or the other and they're the same, like at the same level they're at right now,

I'll take the booze over the woo's. I don't think there's anything wrong with fans boo. If there's a bad fight, fans should be allowed to boo. That's what's wrong with that? I don't like when they boo like every fight that's not like a, you know, slanging and banging. I think that's where he's going with this.

But you certainly want to have the off. Wooing is never necessary. We don't ever need to hear people. Yeah, we shouldn't be chair. Like, in Ganu, Lewis won. Like, we shouldn't be cheering that. Like, you gotta boo. We gotta boo that.

Yeah, you gotta boo. It's bad. It's bad fun. And I'd rather hear them booing it than wooing it. That's for darn sure. This is a great question. A classic question. Would you, uh, GSP Silva or John Jones Silva? GSP Silva.

Talking about, let's say, everyone in their relative primes. GSP Silva. Yeah, GSP Silva. I think it's a more competitive fight. I think John Jones, I think prime John Jones kills Prime Anderson. I'm sorry. Uh, you have to fight. And I'm going to, by the way, I always, anytime I'm going to ask these questions,

I always put the caveat, like, You have to put in a fair effort. You can't just tap out in the first, like, three seconds. Brock Lesnar, Francis Inganu. Oh. Brock, more money. Oh, that's so smart. I was going to say, Ingana, because I think Angana's a little bit nicer.

I don't think he has the main streak that a Brock Lesnar has. Not like Brack Lezner has, like, an evil guy, but I feel like he would have a little bit of fun with beating up someone in the media. I think he'd enjoy it. I think it's definitely slap you around a little bit before, like, either pounding you out or choking you. I think Ingana would be nice enough to, like, push you around. maybe give you a couple of knocks to the dome and then just say lie down I'm going to put you in an arm bar Yeah, I think I'd get whooped either way, but I mean, I would definitely get whipped either way, but Brock, at least I would wake up and dry my tears with $100 bills. End war or end poverty?

It's deep. That's super deep. Both. Oh, look at you. No, you, how dare you? I'll say war because ending war probably could help lead to ending. I think the opposite or both. I think both the problems are related.

Yeah. I mean, if I have to choose one, I want everybody to eat and have money and be able to live. I'm mending poverty. I love war. Fully endorse. Would you rather fully endorse all of Jed's takes or let him babysit for you?

Oh, definitely endorse all of his takes. You wouldn't trust Jed with the life of your child? I don't. He lives like fourth, like soon, if all goes well, I'll be living near Jed. So I would have to like, I can't just be like, hey, Jed, you were on between the links 32 times here. Here's my eight-year-old. See you next week. Yes, you get.

Legally, you are allowed to do that. Yeah, I'm not going to do that. Okay. I'm just saying legally you can do that. He's in Esquire, you know. He's a Jedmishu Esquire. I know. He's a lawyer, right?

What does that mean? I think he's, yeah, something in the law world. I'll never. I'll never know what that means. I would definitely rather let him babysit my non-existent child right now. I will never fully endure. But as a host of a show that has Jed on it a lot, Jed is gold for that kind of show. But I think we have a legal disclaimer at the beginning of the show that having him on does not.

Jedmishu's opinions are not reflective of between the links or Mike Heck or MMA fighting or Vox Media, right? I think people get that as soon as he opens his mouth. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. So I hope people know that we are not fully endorsing Jed's takes and not. never will. Last one, he just wants to end with a plea to Mike for some, I don't know, he wants to check the tape.

Oh, I guess because he's been calling for this and he thinks it might happen someday. He says, but he wants to check the tapes for when this happens. Both men want it. One even called for the matchup this week. Mike, you're in full control. Give us the joke, Jed, apparently, Jed the joke versus the nose on between the links. Mishu, Helwani is the matchup of the year. Maybe.

I think we'll be able to make that happen at some point. All right. And Ariel is a all-and-out liar when he said that. I never asked him to be on the show because I asked him to be on the show like a thousand times. Oh, the call-out. Well, now he's back with the M-MAA family. There's no getting away. When you're part of the M-M-A fighting family, that means you've got to fight with family sometimes.

Yeah, I think he'll be on at some point, yes. Mike, that's it, man. Unless you got some other messages lying around. Thank you, everyone who sent in questions and comments and matchmaking suggestions. You guys rule. And we'll be back. with the regular show next weekend, right? Yes.

I don't even know what freaking card that is. I was going to say I'm also hitting my keyboard right now. Let me pull this up. Gastilum and Canoneneer. Oh. Hold on. I still have to pull it up to see the whole card. That's all I know.

I will tell you, we'll figure this all out. We'll figure this all out. August 20th, which is the day before, I begin like a 10-day vacation. So I will make sure we have an onto the next one. We'll figure it out. Okay, so here's the card. Okay, so that's going down.

Can there Gasol, main event. Clay Guida versus Marco Madsen. Chase Sherman, Parker, Porter. Yeah, that's the Jed Michoud special right there. Vince Pichel, Austin Hubbard is fun. Alexander Pantosia versus Brandon Royval is a great fight That's a good one

Mata Martinez He's fighting Trevin Jones What did that happen? He's fighting Jonathan Martinez, isn't he? Well, I know Manna Martinez was supposed to fight Jesse Strader And

Strader had to withdraw And I'm seeing reports That he was replaced by Trevin Jones And then I thought I saw a report That Nathaniel Wood was out of the Jonathan Martinez fight and now

Trevin Jones is fighting Jonathan Martinez Apparently it is Manna Nope it is Manna August 21st Okay All right So I guess I think Jonathan is just out of luck Out of a fight unfortunately Okay so those reports were inaccurate

Okay William Knight Fabio Chirantz New England on New England crime Luis Saldania versus Austin Lingo That's so good Come on good friend I'm still waiting for the Austin Lingo

to live up to some of the crazy ass hype you had before the UFC Yeah he looked good in his last fight though Yeah Brian Kelleher, our old friend versus Domingo Polarte, Ramez Rameh versus Sasha Platnikoff. That's going to be a fun fight. Bia Maliki versus Josiani Nunes, Roosevelt Roberts versus Ignacio Bahamandis. That's a crazy fight too.

And Abdul Razak al-Hassan moving up to 185 to take on Antonio Braga Netto. So there you go. So light on star power. Let's be fair. The card land on Star Power, but I think some pretty potentially exciting matchups. You know, there's always bantam weights on there. Bantam weights, feather weights. It's honestly not a bad card.

There's worse cards. The card, two cards ago, was worse than this one. It was a really good card. Yes. So there you go. That's it. We'll be back next week talking about the what's next coming out of that card. For AK, I am Mike Heck.

Always remember. Never take this stuff too seriously. MMA is supposed to be fun. more fun next week. Do it back with some matchmaking on on to the next one, the podcast. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.