MMA Fighting - On To the Next One: Episode 13 | Matches To Make After UFC Fight Island 5

Episode Date: October 12, 2020

In the 13th episode of On to the Next One, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Alexander K. Lee Lee put on their matchmaker hats following Saturday night’s UFC Fight Island 5 event in Abu Dhabi. Future fights were discussed for headliners Cory Sandhagen--who delivered an outstanding second-round wheel kick finish--and Marlon Moraes, Edson Barboza, KO of the Year favorite Joaquin Buckley, Dricus Du Plessis, Tom Aspinall, Ilia Topuria, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With Instacart, you get groceries that over-deliver, like when you get groceries that are the same prices in-store. With no markups that select retailers, you get in-store products for in-store prices, and the only thing that isn't in-store is you. That means you could order in-store products at in-store prices while you're in sweatpants, in spin class, in stuffy work meeting, in anywhere but in store. So download the app today and get $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Well, hello there, everyone, and welcome to a brand new edition of On to the Next One,

as we play Matchmaker for some of the notable names coming out of Saturday night's UFC Fight Island Five event, which saw Corey Sanhagen cap off the night in emphatic fashion against former title challenger Marlon Marlon Marais. I am Mike Kack. Hope you're all having a wonderful start to the week. And joining me, as always, on this adventure is the podcast. Prince of positivity himself, your friend and mine, the great Alex K. Lee, A.K., happy Thanksgiving to you and yours up north, my man. Oh, I love it. I love it. Yes, it is Canadian Thanksgiving today,

so I hope everyone enjoyed their long weekend. And it's probably still enjoying their long weekend, but please everyone, drink responsibly, drive safe, and social distance, for goodness sakes. Again, it may be too late to warm people, Mike, but happy Thanksgiving again, of course. But we are dealing in the aftermath of another event and I don't just mean the UFC event I mean a seismic

almost life-changing event you know this I feel like there was a world before Joaquin Buckley's spin kickail and we are now post post J.B I don't know

AJB I don't know what you want to call it but everything just feels different as we'll go this morning and it's like man it's just I don't know what to do with myself now but we'll talk about Mr. Buckley

a lot more later because it was a great card overall, and I think a lot of people deserve our matchmaking attention. Yes, and there's a seismic shift to the MMA world as we know it, and because of Joaquin Buckley, there's going to be a bit of a seismic shift to this particular episode of the show, and we'll get into that in a little bit. So let's start things off with the main event, a.k. Corey Sanhagen, being the Sandman,

living up to the moniker, knocks out Marl Marius, with a spinning wheel kick in the second round. was just the perfect way to end a really entertaining card. It was the biggest win of San Hagen's career. He has put himself right back into the title picture. He won't get a title shot, of course, unless a lot of craziness happens because of the lost Al Jermaine Sterling. But, you know, the man who rightfully deserves that shot is Al J.

Stirling. But, A.K. to me, I say give the man what he wants. I'm going to make the short and sweeten easy. I love the T.J. Dillishaw idea. This is steak sauce, bro. That's the A1 option. And if TJ isn't ready to come back in January, February-ish, Frankie Edgar works for me as well.

But Sanhagen Dillashad just scratches me right where I hit, AK. What say you? Yeah, there's no other, there's no better option. I mean, we're only three months away from 2018 and January when T.J. Dillishar will be returning from what was a two-year suspension for after testing positive for EPO. So the timing works out. I don't see why Sanhagen would want to fight before. That, again, unless, of course, other, you know, Al Jemaine Sterling should become unavailable. and Peter Jan needs a new

a new challenger. But the Tia Jlshaw fight makes sense not just because of the timing on paper. It's a great matchup. Of course, there's shades of Dominic Cruz in Corey Sanhagen and shades in Tijuana as well. So you kind of get a rematch of Dilshawn Cruz, which

I don't know if we're going to get that now. So this is kind of our proxy version of that. And it's, like, credit to Sanheng, because yes, he laid it out perfectly for us. You know, he said, said, I, he said, I think Jan Sterling should happen. He said post-fight that if, you know, something should happen, I'm willing to step in, which is great.

His name is in there now, you know, I don't think it would be unreasonable for him to become the third or fourth understudy for a title shot right now. Like if he fought, if he's booked to fight Peter Yan at some point, I think he'll be like, yeah, he's worthy of it. It's just not right now. We mentioned, yeah, Frankie Edgar or Dominic Cruz, but I feel like they should fight each other. I think we're in agreement that we all want to see that fight. And let's not forget that, you know, San Hagan was kind of supposed to fight Edgar earlier this year, I think in January. And then Edgar was pulled from that fight to fight zombie as a replacement for Tegas. So this whole convoluted thing.

But I think he's kind of moved on from that matchup with that win over Mud Ice, which again was sensational. It's funny that we're – that's the chaos that would have gone viral last night if it wasn't for Walking Buckley and the UFC not sharing clips of their main card knockouts. But, yeah, to Dillisha, what else they're saying? Yes, and it's nice to hear some realism from our main event winner. Like Alexander Rackich was shouting at the rooftops for a title shot at 205 before Blakovich and Reyes and all the other craziness and like, what are you doing? Like, that performance is not that great. Corey Sandhagen has a ridiculous performance, one of like the best finishes ever at 135 pounds. And he's just like, you know what?

I think Sterling should get the title shot. I'm there if you need me. but I like that. I like when that happens. It's not crazy. We're not making fun of him. We're actually praising him for his post-fight comments. Now, a little more tricky.

We have Marlon Marius, who has lost two of his last three. He was finished in both of those losses. He has the win over Josealdo, a win that most people frown upon because they don't agree with it. And I think, AK, that's a reason why the betting odds went in the direction that they did, because Marius did open as like a minus 135 favorite, and that line swung real quick. People just have that, I don't know, disrespect isn't the correct word,

but I think Marius was kind of being, yeah, maybe disrespect. It is the right word in this scenario. But it turned out that the odds makers are right, the people were right, swinging that line. What do we do with Marlon Marius following Saturday night? Well, like if you're of the camp that thinks that he did lose the Aldo fight,

then technically I guess he was heading into this on a two-fight losing stream. Again, in the eyes of some, which explains the odds. Though, like I said, he opened as the favor, then it swung, so I'm not really sure what happened during that time period. But some people might think Marlin's on a three-fight losing streak. I don't look at it that way, but I get it. We can agree maybe his last two performances were not overwhelmingly in his favor as far as

public image goes. So if you're in that mindset, I thought of some promising names. If you feel like you really have to bump them back, I don't love any of these. Song Yadong, the Cody Stamen, Moral. Rod Vajvajvili winner or Marlon Vera if you're looking for some Marlon on marlin action. But that fight could happen sometime down the road. I think the one that makes the most sense, and this was suggested by Jose, Jose Young's, on

Twitter, Pedro Munoz. He's coming off that loss to close, good competitive loss to Frankie Edgar. They're both, their both should still be, you know, in the top five, top six, top seven in there somewhere. And a win, whoever gets that win keeps themselves in the title picture. Good style matchup. I'm down with that. I didn't want to overthink this one too much.

Those who have followed me in any capacity over the last, I don't know, three years or so, you know how much I've wanted to see Marius versus Dominic Cruz. And I still want to see it, even though we saw a variation of it already. But I also understand that Frankie Edgar would probably have to get the Sandhagen fight for that to even be possible. So I will wave my white flag in the air as of right now on this Marius versus Cruz fight. because unless something wild happens, it's just not going to happen anytime soon, and it makes me sad.

Yes, there's the Pedro Munoz matchup, and that should probably be the answer here. I mean, you could do Hafeel Sonsau, but I'd probably favor Marius pretty heavily in that fight. And like the only other name in there, it's kind of a long shot would be the soon-to-be returning Rob Funt. I mean, there's plenty of options here. I think Marias probably needs a little more time

after that knockout. I think Font probably wants to return sooner, maybe November, December. So maybe you do Munoz versus Fonts and do Marius versus Asunsao. But any mix of those names works for me, AK. The Marius Asun Sao trilogy. Is this what you're pushing? Sure. This would be the third time. And they are one in one, though Marius did beat him pretty convincingly in the second meeting. But it could happen. Again, and I still have a Sun Sao in my top 10. I know some people say, oh, he's lost three straight fights. But I think he's done enough that he's, he's fallen, but hasn't fallen that far. Let's keep mind.

He was like top three for like a while, and then now he's now he's fallen down. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know how far I wanted to push him back. I could see the O'C, again, like I said, going with one of the lower ranked names we mentioned, but I think he deserves a top 10 guy still. I mean, I like the very idea, the more I think of it. Because of Marlon and Marlon. Marlon on Marlon is great.

It's a little bit harder to say that Marlon on Marlin. You guys say it slowly, Marlin on Marlin. It's not Neil on Neil. like neon nail so much easier to say. So I mean, listen, 135 is so good you can put Marais in there with anybody, but you know, the UFC loves trilogy fights.

Let's do a freaking trilogy fight. Why the hell not? Now in the co-mate event, Edson Barbosa, back in the wind column, the guy who has fought like the toughest strength of schedule maybe in the history of the UFC, defeats Makwana Mirkani,

he looked great, gets a win over a tough opponent. He's in good spirits, and we like seeing that. He wants a top five, six guy. I don't know if he gets an A.K., so once again, I'm going to keep this short and sweet. He was scheduled to fight Sadiq Yusuf on this card. There were passport issues involved for Sadiq Yusuf to get to fight Allen, to get to Abu Dhabi. So if he can get to the States

and fight, let's get it popping on one of these Vegas cards in November or December. What say you? I agree. The SOTIC use a fight. Still makes a lot of sense. It'd be an awesome fight. I love seeing that. I love that fight on paper. If a Barbosis camp, kind of like what we said with the Sanhagen, Edgar thing, you probably feel like, oh, well,

this win, now I'm past that fight now. Now I want, again, I'm 34 years old. I was competitor. I was a contender

at lightweight for so long. I want some of that should carry over to 1.45. I mean, I'm just, again, I'm speaking for what I imagine him in this camp

are thinking. So they probably don't see Sadiq as a, someone who gets them closer to a title shot. They probably feel like they're one fight away. I disagree.

I'm kind of with you. I'd like to see him fight a Suddik, then fight a top five, top 10 guy, and then maybe sneak into a title shot. But I don't know what they're thinking. So the matchup, another possibility I threw out there was maybe the Arnold Allen, Jeremy

Stevens winner. They fought on November 7th. But if Allen won that fight, he'd be 8-0. And I think he'd be hunting for his own top five opponent, not necessarily about both at this point. So the fight I really want to see, I don't think it's going to happen. It would be Aya-R-R-R-R-R-Reggis. I say it won't happen because I think we're all assuming he's eventually going to get that him and Zabit Megamov, or eventually.

going to get that that fight locked down. So probably not an option. But that would be my number one choice. I'd love to see him a fight year. I have a year in my top five right now. And I think that's the one he's looking for. But otherwise, the other possibility, next Saturday's loser from the Brian Ortega, Korean zombie main event.

Maybe. Maybe. I think he needs a tough win, though. Yeah. This is a tough one. Like, I want people to really look at the 145 pound division, like especially like the bottom half of the top 15 and beyond, it's loaded. Like, there's a lot of talent in that division.

Like, just calling out and trying to get a top five or six guy after one win is going to be nearly impossible. And, like, not even walking, if walking Buckley was a featherweight, he's not getting a top five, top six guy after that performance. It's just, it's just not possible. Like, and I appreciate the gusto. It's just not going to happen. But we do have a listener submission, AK, from Mighty Magic Mart.

And I want to get your take on this because this probably is going to be an emotional roller coaster ride for you. He says, my on to the next one this week is Barbosa versus Ryan Hall. Wow, what a clash in styles

and could be a super, could be super strange in all the good ways, A.K., what do you think about this? Well, the good news is, Mike, that I saw this tweet last night, which means I'm emotionally prepared to discuss it. The bad news is I didn't sleep all night

thinking about it. So that's so, you know, Prozen cons. Frozen cons. Thank you at Mighty Magic Marta. Regular listener and fight suggestor. So, yeah, I think we mentioned this very, very briefly on the post-fight show. I think we said, we don't love it for Barbosa.

I believe our own Casey Lyon said, look, Barbosa wants fights that he can win. Okay. So why would anyone ever fight right now? It would be a very cool class. Again, but if you're Barbosa's camp, gosh, I don't know why you take that. I think Hall has so much more to gain from his name than Barbosa would. he's not going to give Barbosa the fight that he wants. Is it a winnable fight for Barbosa?

Yeah, I think definitely. I think it's a very, very winnable fight. And there'll be a size difference there. Barbosa, I think defensively underrated as a grappler for a guy who's only considered a stand-up guy. So in that sense, they could consider it. But his name, as much as we love Ryan Hall here, I do think there's still a lack of casual interest there. I don't know if a win, especially one that might be an ugly win, helps Bobosa out that much. So I think it's a cool matchup, and I'd be down for it, but I'm not one that came to my mind at first.

Yeah, I think I compare this to, like, a woman that you're dating that you really like, but you just said it, you're like 22 years old. Like, maybe he's misripe, but just not misses right now. I think that's what that fight kind of looks like. I don't think you can make that fight unless they're both like top five guys. But now, this would normally be the time that we would talk about the winner of the featured bout of the evening, Marcin Taibora. He defeats Ben Rothwell. It was a fun fight. However, as we alluded to a couple of different points in this broadcast this far,

there was a certain moment in the preliminary card that stole the show and took the world by storm. And since heavyweight is quite interchangeable, I think we're being pretty fair by saying that. We're going to call a bit of an audible here, AK. Is that accurate? Would you like to explain this maneuvering further? Yeah. Look, a lot of praise for Marchisbury, U.S.C. veteran, big win last night. very strong performance against Ben Rothwell.

But, but as you said, these heavyweight veterans, they're kind of, look, we could throw out like five different names that have heavyweight that have had seven or more appearances in the UFC, and really they'd all be of like equally, equal chance of happening. So Martin DeBora, good for him, three straight wins, probably moves closer to the top. I honestly, I can't even talk about this that much. But we should not have our show dictated by the capricious main card scheduling of the UFC because with respect to all the fighters who end up on the main card, they're not necessarily main card worthy or relevant names.

All right, this is just being, this is just being honest, okay? And no disrespect to anyone ends up. Congratulations if you end up on a UFC main card. But that is their decision-making, our decision-making should be based on, yes, somewhat card placement, but also performances. And no one had a more talked-about performance than one Mr. O'Wakene Buckley. So we are bumping him up from the preliminary portion of the show and making him a priority to matchmaking. I like your thought process.

It makes all the sense in the world. This is like the Al Jermaine Sterling up on to the next one. It would be a travesty if we didn't talk about him and put him in this spot. But you are a, I mean, you've been a big Joaquin Buckley fan before this unbelievable knockout. The fight with Kevin Holland made you very happy. You were looking forward to seeing what was next. Even though he lost, he was your wild card pick after that fight with Kevin Holland. So he goes out there, has the favorite, now is the odds on favorite to have.

the knockout of the year in 2020. One of the best knockouts in UFC history. I'm going to let you lead this one off, Sarah. What would you do next with Mr. Buckley? Well, fortunately, I apparently, as I was looking back at my notes from previous shows, have already laid down the groundwork. Because at first I was like, man, he's in a weird spot where anyone who sees, who saw that highlight is like, this guy must be the greatest fighter ever.

And we like walking Buckley, but I think he improved to 12 and 6 or something, 12 and 6, 1 in the UFC. So, you know, I guess unbeaten guy, solid unbeaten guy. But we can't get too super excited. So kind of like what we said for both of the obvious thing to do, rebook the originally scheduled Abu Izaytar matchup. That is, again, a fight that I guarantee would probably end in the first round with some insane knockout or at some point in the fight.

That's just not going to the distance. And then my other choice was the John Phillips, Jun Young Park winner from next week, again, sort of just using some cars that are clustered together, again, which would produce an insane knockout. But what I said last week, actually, after the Hull Madonna show, was I wanted the winner of Buckley Kasanganii for Disko Todorovich. Unbeaten guy, very, very promising prospect. Not the super thrilling style matchup that people might want, but he's got some stand-up power himself.

So I'm going to be consistent. I'm going to stick with what I said last week. I said, Disco should get the winner of this fight. So let's go to Dorovich, Buckley. Let's try it out. One thing I said a few times during the post-fight show is that this is one of those cars. that can carry over in terms of future matchmaking. It just lines up in a lot of ways because there are multiple heavyweight fights or multiple

middleweight fights. I would say that Buckley versus Tom Breeze, that makes a lot of sense. Like they're probably around the same wavelength when it comes to ranking. So that was like my initial thought about this. The more I think about it, I think Breeze's ground game could be very dangerous for Mr. Buckley. If I'm the UFC, I'm doing everything I can to give Buckley fun matchups to the best of my ability and put them in there with somebody that will stand in there and just slug it out with him. So my thought, why don't we do Buckley versus Fluffy Hernandez?

We get two exciting guys. Both of their recent losses were to the same guy. Both finished by Kevin Holland. Let's let these guys go in there, have some fun, throw them bolos. I think it's a fun fight. Because I don't want to rush him. The UFC has a tendency of, like, taking these guys who get highlight real finishes and are the talk of the town and just throwing him these fights that matchup-wise is just not good. They're not favorable.

And I think Dusko Tidorevich is a problem in 185 pounds right now. So that's a really scary fight. You know, Joaquin, thank you for giving us, like, 25 billion video views on social media. Let's give you the biggest, scariest prospect in the division right now. Let's give you Dusko Todorovich. It's my thinking. I don't know. It's Breezer fluffy for me.

Just give him someone fun and go from there. I can't believe I hadn't thought of Anthony Hernandez. I don't know why. Now I'm upset, one, that I didn't think of that. And two, I want to pause to clear up what Buckley's records, not 12. I don't know where I got 12 and 6 from him. He's 11 and 3 after that. A very nice number for a prospect.

So 11 and 3, I apologize for the brief moment of fake news there. But yeah, I don't know why. I guess I hadn't looked that far back. or have Buckley too high. Buckley now is in my top 40 out of 60, out of 60 some odd middleweights. It's actually not that's not that many. So he's only kind of in the,

still in the middle third of the division. But yeah, because I had Kasanganaai somewhat high, so he kind of just takes Kasanganaai spot. But yeah, many officers ahead for this young man. But you're right. They should be looking more for stylistic matchups that can include more buck that can create more buckly moments, as I hopefully will soon to come to know them as,

if this is not a one and done thing. So, yeah, I went by the numbers. I went by my spreadsheets. My McManor, Sean Shalbys spreadsheets here. And maybe I should have deviated from that from the science. Yeah, he's like, this is like a Shane McMahon booking. Like, you know, Shane McMahon's got to, like, jump off the cell or go through a window and just do crazy things against, you know, people you don't think he would hang with.

Like, that's what you do with Buckley. You just put him in, like, great fights like that, moving forward. I really wanted to fight John Phillips. So I don't think, but I don't think John Phillips is beating John Young Park. But if that happens, I really want to see him fight John Phillips. Yeah, I'm in for that at this point. No doubt about that. So crazy.

So now let's go to the guy that I thought got the big fat hose job in the bonus department, aka Drichis duplase. He becomes the first fighter to finish Marcus Perez. He does so on two weeks notice. He should have gotten 50 Gs, in my opinion. But I think this guy, AK, is the absolute real deal. So I say, we give him. him a name right out of the gate. Let's test him against a UFC grizzled veteran. How about we do

duplasse, duplice, duplice versus a duplecy. Duplice, duplice, duplice. I will get this because I have a feeling I'm going to be saying this guy's name a lot. Let's do that, him versus the dentist, Darren Stewart, a good step up. Stewart didn't look bad in the Kevin Holland fight. He didn't get the judge's nod, but Kevin Holland's like, dude, I think that was a draw. I think I got 10-8 in that final round. So let's give him the vet test once more. Give him another tough out. He did call for the Kevin Holland fight, which I wouldn't be opposed to either. But I think if he goes out there, beats a Darren Stewart, he can get that fight. That's my pick. What is yours? Yeah, Darren Stewart, definitely a solid

veteran at this point. The O.C. 11, 11 UFC fights. That would be his 12th. So I think they're so for me because I bring that up how many fights had because I think they're a little bit far apart. But again, you can, you could say that de Plecée has had somewhat relevant, you know, UFC level experience prior, of course, fighting for KSW, being a Welshweight champion in that division. So for me, I actually liked Tom Breeze for Duplice. You said Tom Breese for May Buckley. I actually liked him for Duplice. Tom Breeze, I just, it's funny, I kind of just contradicted myself. Also a guy who's had experience in the UFC.

But for me, still trying to regain his footing after fighting. I think this was this was his third fight since 2016. So for me, he's still in the process of reintroducing himself. I was very high for him to compete twice to this year. It was tough for him. He's had some outside the cage troubles as far as mental health. I've been very honest about it. And I'm glad he's spoken out about it.

But if he's ready to compete, I think this would be a good fight for both of them. That's really the one I first around. There's some other random names. I'm not even going to bother mentioning them. The thing that's, I'll say, I wonder if he returns to Walter Waite in the future. He can certainly compete at 185, but he's only 26 years old. he's not a super big middleweight. He's in great shape.

He's not a super big middleweight. If he's comfortable with 185 and it's a much easier way cut, I say stick around. But I would say keep an eye on him, possibly going back to 170 in the future. Yeah, very possible. That's a very good point. So very bright future for that man in the UFC. I'm excited at these there and knocking out and finishing Marcus Perez is no easy feat because no one else has done it.

So I suggestion that I saw a lot. I actually had a buddy text me. He goes, DuPla C versus Eric. Eric Anders. I want to see that fight. I'm like, eh, I kind of want to give him one more win. But then if you really look deep at Eric Anders and in his string of recent fights, it's not a bad matchup. It actually makes a lot of sense. Eric Anders is also such a like, if I, you know, he would love to take that, the duplice thunder. You know what I mean? He's such a guy like, I don't care what, what this guy's record is.

I don't care what his pre-UFC credentials are. You know what? Because he's, again, Eric Andrews, he's another guy. He's in double-digit UFC fights. He should be a little more picky about his fights, but you know he wouldn't be. He'll fight. He fought Machita and what his third, UFC fight or something, third or fourth you have C fight? Something like that. He'll fight like, he'll literally fight anyone. Like he just doesn't care.

And good for him. That's kind of what we like about him. We move to the heavyweight division. Tom Aspinall, who, I mean, this is, you hear the term lock of the night. This is like lock of the night times a million, in my opinion. No offense to Alan Bardot. Like, I don't want to like. It just, he treated Allen accordingly.

That's as respectable as I can put. Because now, Bordeaux, one, probably shouldn't be in the UFC, and two, shouldn't have been in that fight, but it is what it is. It's Fight Island. He was there. And kudos to him for stepping in on short notice and fighting a bright prospect like Tom Aspedal. Tom made it look easy, bright prospect in this heavyweight division.

Where does he go from that victory, kind, sir? First of all, like I said, props to Bidot, it was obviously didn't have a great showing. But for anyone wondering why we're being so, like, sounds like, sounds like being a little disrespectful, He was literally only on the island to corner Cyril Gahn who fights next Saturday and just he and happens to, I guess, be a pro fighter. He is a light heavyweight normally, okay, and he weighed in at 254 pounds for this fight. So to say that he was not an ideal shape and he did the UFC of favor as an understatement. But yeah, Aspenov took care of his as he should. What's the name that?

Oh, okay. I don't know why, but I had a little trouble with this one. As soon as I saw the name, I'm like, this is what I want. I want to see him fight Sergei Pavlovich. Sergei Paolovic is an absolute, I think, blue chipper at heavyweight. He has lost a fight in the UFC, but I think he was against a more experienced opponent. So I think there's the right spot for both of them. Not really neither of them are undefeated.

Aspinol now 2 and 0, but I think 12 and what's his career record? I think 10 and 2 or something, 11 and 2. So both guys who have had losses before, both guys who I still think are future top 10 heavyweights, mainly just because of the fact I think they're both under 30, which goes a long way at this point with respect to our veterans. But yeah, Sergei Pavlovich, I just want to see it. I'm not sure what Pavlovich is up to now, but that's the matchup for me. That's a good fight.

I mean, we're kind of back to the full circle conversation. The man called for Sergei Spivak, who was supposed to fight on this card originally, or he called for, as he said, low-key Chris Dachas. So let's get him what he wants. Two guys who each got first-round finishes. Dacus puts away an undefeated heavyweight in Rodrigo, Nassimento. He did it under a minute. This is a good piece of business.

Let's just line these guys up. Both got first-round finishes. We could turn them around right away, AK. Yeah, we had another reader's mission that's exactly agrees to you. He said, yo, Alex, I got you. I'm cutting out some of the words here just because they're superfluous. Check it. Tom Aspinol versus Chris Dawkins.

A, A, not too bad, L.O.L. shrugging emoji. And I said, yes, it's a little too easy, but I knew that you would bring that up. And thank you at Fated J's for the suggestion because it makes a lot of sense. And I think it's easy. I'll bring up something that I brought up in the show last night, too. I still think that Dacus maybe goes to 205 instead. So that's why I don't know if this fight happens.

Maybe not his next fight. But he came in at 227 for this fight, lost a lot away from his fights prior. Maybe, again, maybe he's just looking slim and spelt for heavyweight. You know, again, that's speed advantage, speed and agility advantage. But I do believe, I don't know the exacts of his physiology. But I do believe that Chris Dacus can make 205 if he really goes for it. We shall see. But we kick things off on the main card in the featherweight division.

What a debut for Alia Tupori. Yeah, defeats a surging contender in Yusuf Salal. He did it in less than a week's notice to boot, by the way. I think it was six days notice he took this fight, and what a performance that was. This guy is just going to be a problem at 145 pounds, ladies gentlemen. Just 23 years of age. A lot of promise in this young man, so I'm going to go a little bit outside the box here, okay,

because I want him to fight a veteran, but I don't want to throw him to the wolves. just yet. Like, I, I want him to face a vet who's going to be very, very tough to put away. I'm making so many faces right now. I, the same thing is the podcast. I'm making so many faces. A guy who wants to be kind of a prospect killer in this division.

A guy who just took an O from a bright prospect's record not too long ago, someone who will be very, very hard to get out of there. I'm getting crazy, AK. How about we do Alia Tuporia versus Julian Arrofen? Julian Arosa. Oh. I considered it. That's okay, that's not that crazy.

I thought you were going higher. I thought you were going like top. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not crazy in terms of like, no one's going to think of this, but apparently you did. He didn't make my enemy. He didn't make my shirt.

I mean, I saw I looked at a lot of names. But, no, I don't think that's crazy at all. I think Julian or Rosa makes a lot of sense. Stylously, Juliana Rosa is a problem for a lot of people. He's such a tricky, tricky guy, tricky, rangy guy. which, yeah, would be a very interesting challenge for Toporia, who's kind of this somewhat stocky, powerful 1-45ers. So, yeah, did you have a lot of trouble with this match-up for this guy?

I did. I did. Absolutely, I did. Well, this is the kind of thing we were talking about, though, is like we're like, we're talking about putting such an experienced guy on the main card just because the UFC felt like having a six-white main card. Because it could have been, I mean, they could have put Tom Breeze on there. He's more well-known, more experienced.

They could have put Gigacococat. given a main card spot. Tracy Cortez, Stephanie Agar, you know, it's always nice to see a women's phantom weight fight in the main card.

It doesn't happen that often these days. So it was a little surprised to see Aaliyadh in there. So we are, but we are mastering him because, yes, he was on the main card

and he had a great performance. I went even further. I think I'm even more further out. I thought about Ludovic Klein from last week, but I know a lot of people are still kind of sour that he missed weight,

so maybe just, you know, whatever, don't worry about him for now. Mike Trezano, I just want to know where he is. Yeah. I mean, I assume maybe dealing with injuries, but I actually don't know. I haven't heard anything official about that.

So Mike Trouzano, a former ultimate fighter winner. I think most likely, I think which neither of us mentioned, it really can't predict, is I think they pair him up with another newcomer, depending how quickly he wants to turn around. But obviously, that's not a fun thing to predict, Mike. That's not what we do in this show. So I went with a name, people who aren't too familiar with now, but I think would be a good style matchup for him.

And I'm going real slow. Nate Maness. Nate Maness just made a debut. He beat Johnny Munoz. He showed good take down defense. as well as excellent resolve after eating several low blows in that fight. So you impressed me, Nate. You impressed me with those two aspects of your game,

your take-down defense and your groin-shot resilience, which I think would make for a competitive fight against a blue chipper like Ilya to Boria. Chris Fishgold would be interesting. Yes. Somebody like that. I saw some, a couple people suggest Grant Dawson. No, don't even try that. No, no, no, no.

Plus, Dawson was a fight of 55 until the pandemic's over. So yeah, I think slow burn. This guy's going to be real good. He's super young. There's no need to throw him to the wolves. Like, just don't do that. Let's build these prospects up correctly. And just do it that way.

As we head to everyone's favorite segment, A.K., it's the wild card round. Now, last week, we had a wild card pick come to fruition the same week as the pick was made. I picked Casey Kenney versus Nathaniel Wood. And sure enough, even though it was kind of misreported at first, We got it on October 24th. You had the inside scoop. Be honest. Be honest.

Don't lie to America. I really didn't. You and Casey Canney are best friends. Isn't that true? Aren't you and Casey Canney best friends? Or you and Nathaniel Wood are best friends. I'm not sure. You're best friends with one of these guys.

You had the inside scoop. I didn't. We cannot, Mike, we cannot lie to America. I've done it many times. But this stops today. This stops today. I had no inside scoop. Even when it was thrown out there,

I was taking the victory in strong. tried and then, you know, reaching out to both sides. I was like, oh, maybe I can't take the victory lap just yet because this fight hasn't even been offered to either of these guys. But luckily, it did, and now we're going to get it on October 24th. So, the question is, A.K., could lightning strike twice? What is your wild card selection for UFC Fight Island Five? That I thought you were going to go first.

But I don't, I mean, I've liked this fight. This is what I'm making, but this is more of a fight I want to see than a fight that I expect to happen. I'm going, I got to go to Gika Chikaze. from our wild card, a guy who I think is sorely in need of matchmaking guidance because he's in such a weird spot. He came in with a lot of hype, you know, great kickboxing background. He's 4 and O now in the UFC, but it's weird. I just don't think it feels that way to some people.

Normally when the guy starts off 4 and O, I think everyone's talking about it. He hasn't had a finish. That's a big reason, you know, probably a reason that the UFC has also been kind of reluctant to showcase him. But he's had very strong performances. He was dominant, I think, against Omar Morales. He looked great in his last editing against Errin Rivera. You know, last second replacement, but still, he won that fight handling against a very, very scrappy opponent, scrappy undersized opponent.

So I want to see, I think as cool as it would be to see him fight Edson Barbosa, I don't think, I think it's way too soon. And I don't think that's a great fight for Barbosa. If I'm Barbosa, I'm not taking that one. So the fight I really want to see that I don't necessarily expect to happen. Herbert Burns. I think, I think, you get Chikaze, Herbert Burns. I think Herbert needs, you know, obviously needs some rehabilitation after that last fight. And I think Giga would be a really, really solid test for him.

I think he's certainly more well-rounded. But I think Chikaze can make a little bit of a midi jump up the rankings if he beats a name like Herbert Burns. And Herbert Burns could get back on track if he takes out a undefeated, you know, 4-0 guy in Giga. That would make sense. Erwin, he did fight Irwin Rivera and beat him. And I think Irwin trains with both the Burns brothers. So yeah, there's what a storyline that was, A.K. I'll tell you what, when this card was put together, my wild-corps.

card pick was was set probably like a month ago. But then things changed because my wild card pick would have been Tracy Cortez versus Jessica Rose Clark. But Jesse Jessica will be out for a little while with an ACL injury. She needs surgery. So that can't happen, unfortunately. And we're going to all the best to Jessica Rose Clark. And I know Tracy Cortez plans to move to 125, but I don't want to see that. I don't want to see it happen. Definitely not right now because quite frankly, this division 135 needs her and needs her in a big way. And as of right now, I know she's only 2 and 0

in the UFC. I think she's a top 20 fighter in that division right now. Maybe she's inside the top 20. 21 on my list. 21 on your list? I have her... Just despite you. She's like 17 or 18 if we're really looking at it.

But I think obviously with all due respect, I think that shows maybe the lack of death at 135 than anything else. So if the UFC is smart, they will do whatever they can to keep her at 135 pounds. So why don't we sweeten the pot a little bit, A.K., why don't we see what Tracy Cortez has got? Let's give her a top 15 matchup.

How about we pair Tracy Cortez against another fiery fighter of the bear persuasion? Tracy Cortez versus Julia Avila, your welcome, world. I think that's a fun fight. Experience levels are the exact same. Avila has one more UFC fight, but you know what? I think this is a pretty good match. Obila's probably going to have to take a small step back

after the loss of Shjarra U-U Banks. She will get tested on the ground in this fight once again. Cortez is fine to stand there and bang with Julia. I think this is a good fight. I think it's perfect. That's good. That's a journey. You didn't take, that wasn't quite the journey.

Check out the end of last week's episode, by the way, to see him. He took us on a journey before making that Kenny. would pick. But perhaps the journey, as we found out, these journeys are worthwhile. There's a reason you go down these roads. This was not quite as lengthy. This wasn't quite a Lord of the Rings-esque journey to Mordor, but it was a little trip. It's a little like weekend side trip. A little thing, Canadian Thanksgiving's a day trip, yeah. Yeah. I love that match up. The only thing is, they're both such likable people. That's the only thing is I'd hate to see either of them take a loss, Julia Avila and Trishaikas both so likable and certainly two fighters that the

UFC would want to push. But you're right. It's got these folks to fight each other. Someone's got to win, someone's got to lose. A lost is not, you know, is not the end for either. It wouldn't be the end for either of these women. Because I think it would be a competitive fight. Damn, that's a good one. Thank you. That's better than the geek of Chikaze Herbert Burns.

That's a good one, too, though. I mean, that's just what I don't think is going to happen. I mean, I'd like to see how much. I think the likelihood is low. But this one I could definitely see. Tracy Cortez, Julie Ava. Yeah. Yeah, I'm into that.

Yeah, we got to keep her at 35, and to do so, we got to give her a bump up, give her a top 15 matchup, give her a chance to make some extra mullah with maybe a new contract attached to it. That's how you keep her at 135 and keep things going in the direction they need to go and boost this division up a little bit. Any other listener thoughts that you're able to find? All right, let's hear.

I solicited thoughts on our Twitter this time and I remember to actually look at them before they're going to show today. So we're getting better, guys. We're getting better. So I had a couple of people agree with my Yajir Rodriguez suggestion for Edson Barbosa. So at Aschen Lingom, I'm thinking he said,

he just said, yeah, year, didn't even mention Zabit. and then at Casual Eve, Yves, like Eve Edwards, Casual Eve, said Zabit or I, you are amazing kickboxing matchups. So if Barbosa wants to wait, again, should that fight presumably be matched up, I think we'd all love to see him fight one of those two guys. And this is one, I think you've saw this, some people mention this one as well, I imagine, at Jedi Josh Allen, great Twitter handle, Max Holloway. That would be one that I think would require some negotiation for both parties.

I think if you had to talk, well, not Barbosa. Robosa would take that fight an instant. Holloway might take a little convincing, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Calvin Cater is going to be so pissed listening to this show. He's like, these are both guys I should be fighting. And now Edson Barbosa wasn't even ranked heading into this fight. Is it going to take Max Holloway? Or Yair Rodriguez?

That's crazy. I mean, they could do it. I mean, Barbosa's got a name. But I think that's, I don't know. I'd watch, obviously watch. Yeah, it would be amazing. I like it. I like it.

And again, I said, I don't know if I'm calling it to happen, but I think it's as likely as, what did I say? What did I say? What was the bull crap I spouted today? Oh, I wasn't confident any of these. Guy here or take a zombie. I'm not confident. I'm about as confident of those happening as a Max Holloway matchup. Martin Tobora, I did not get a lot of response for this, which I think shows you that we may have made the right choice and excluding him from our fix.

But he did win. He does deserve some recognition at least one matchup. At dingo underscore key on Twitter said Alexander Romanov, who has been rebooked to fight Pezal, I think. Right? So maybe the winner of that fight, though I think they're both. Yeah, actually, the winner of that fight makes a lot of sense. And then Blago Ivanov, for some reason, I thought they'd already fought, but I don't think they have. So Blago Ivanov, very excellent choice, very mediocre, heavyweight choice.

Not mediocre in terms of talent, by the way, mediocre in terms of the amount of hype that I think it would generate should that be made. Any last to broad thoughts where I move on to these last couple of reader sections? No, I think that that does it. Gita Jekadezay, of course, again, going four and O. Again, only a few responses to these. Again, I think that shows you people, he needs a signature moment. So we, you know, we've done on our ideas for how he can get that. Very confused in Ghanu Rogan once at Benil Dereush, not even the same weight class.

So I'm just shouting you out, sir, to shame you. Sadie Yusif Or at Gibo Gibo 27 G-I-B-E-A-U-T-27 Sadie Kuzif of course And then or Dan Igay I don't know if he wants an immediate rematch Or he doesn't know that they fought

So a little bit of a little strange one there And at Gou To do wants to see the Barbosa fight A lot of us want to see the Barbosa fight Just maybe not Maybe not yet Right And lastly

We gotta end with Buckley More Buckley talk We got in with Buckley So However, the suggestions for Buckley were terrible. So finger ashamed to the reader for messing this one. In fairness, I think my tweet asking for justice may have been lost in the actual tweet of the knockout itself and people watching that over and over again and wanting to live in the moment. So I shouldn't criticize people.

But at Golden Square, we're three or I'm not reading this. If you put in numbers for letters, I am not reading out your name properly. A rematch with Kevin Holland immediately? No, why? Stop it. Okay, that was terrible. Kevin Holland knocked that dude out cold. You knocked him across the octagon. This is not happening. At, do you even trade UFC? Whatever the F he wants. He did not write F. He used the full word. But whatever the F you wants, that I can actually get down with. And then sadly, at one mic pod of the one mic podcast, just a little free advertising for you, giving us probably the best suggestion by suggesting Shang from the Mortal Kombat video game series. So nice.

Yeah. So that move was straight out. It was a straight up fatality. It was straight out of a video game or martialized movie. What do you ever want to call it? So maybe Shang Song is the only one who can slow down Buckley after that knockout. But guys, readers, better job this week. We're all doing a better job.

But let's step it up. Step up the matchmaking officers a little bit. Come on. I do have a podcast comment to read. Oh, yeah. A review comments. It's in, I apologize for missing this a couple weeks ago because this is sent out in September 27th. from Sean 75 KG said some matchmaking too, not just a five-star review, but a matchmaking idea.

He says, quote, love the podcast. I was thinking of matchups for Diego Sanchez. And I love the idea of putting Diego Sanchez in with Brock Weaver. That's actually a pretty good piece of matchmaking right there, if we're being honest. Rock Weaver, but he's not getting another UFC fight, is he? He might. They like him. He has the one win.

It was a DQ, right? Yes. They do like Brock Weaver. They do like him. I have him second last in my welterweight rankings. I don't like that for Diego. I mean, match-up-wise, I get, oh, it's two super intense guys. I'm going to go in there.

What if it's the last fight of his, what if it's like the last fight of his, like we're just like I'm going to do one more fight and they give him like the favor they give him like the favor treatment he's fighting Connor on his last fight obviously oh god so we all know that's happening so why we're even this guy Brock Weaver's not even in that sphere

it is a very cool suggestion thank you Sean 75 KG for the suggestion I am not down for it at all but then again I'm known for being wrong about many things so maybe my lack of an endorsement might be in your favor sir it's better than Jake Matthews it's better than a lot of possible

matches. I'll give you that, but I still think we can do better with Diego. Let's get those legends matchups going. Let's not have them against Brock Weber, who, by the way, I'm not confident we'll have a UFC job by the end of the year, with respect. And of course, you can give us your matchmaking thoughts. You can do so on the podcast feed if you'd like, and we'll read

it out, and hopefully I'll keep track of that. But you can hit us up on the Twitter. He is at Alexander Kaylee. I am at Mike Eck underscore JR. So hit us up. We love to hear from you wonderful listeners of the program as we put a bow on matchmaking for UFC Fight Island 5. Join us next week as we take a look at the aftermath

of UFC Fight Island 6, headlined by Brian Ortega versus the Korean zombie. Fascinating fight at 145 pounds where one fighter will likely move on to fight for UFC gold against Alexander Volcanowski, while the loser of that fight could be in a little bit of trouble in this loaded up featherweight division. So a lot of stake, a lot at stake here. in that fight. Another sneaky good card from start to finish. And looking forward to discussing the aftermath of that card with you, AK. This isn't sneaky good. This car is just good, good. Yeah. I think, again, I mean, every card's a little sneaky now because we barely have time to look ahead

because there's cards every week. But I think anyone, I would say, people check to rest to Wikipedia or tapause, or U.S.com or ESPN, whatever, or our site, of course. And whichever set you use to look at the schedules, because when you look at it, you're like, holy, how did this card, like, come out of here? This is a really good card. I don't see this one coming. I am very much looking forward to matching up a lot of these names next week. I'm just like, there's like literally 10 names, depending how they perform. I feel like, yeah, it's getting my matchmaking juices flowing. Yes, the go home show for UFC 254 on October 24th.

So I am excited. It's like one of those cards where it's like it's one of those nighttime cars on Saturday. And we're like, all right, when this is over, we know that next week we're going to have like an afternoon slate. Like by like seven o'clock at night, we're going to be done. Like we're going to be done. I cannot wait for that to happen. But that'll do it for this week's show. For A.K. Lee, I am ICAC.

Remember, don't take this too seriously. This, like, MMA in general, is supposed to be fun. We'll see you next Monday, right here on onto the next one, the podcast. Happy Thanksgiving to our neighbors up north. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.