MMA Fighting - On To the Next One: Episode 14 | Matches To Make After UFC Fight Island 6

Episode Date: October 19, 2020

In the 14th episode of On to the Next One, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Alexander K. Lee Lee put on their matchmaker hats following Saturday night’s UFC Fight Island 6 event in Abu Dhabi. Future fights were discussed for headliners Brian Ortega--who earned a dominant unanimous decision victory--and The Korean Zombie, Jessica Andrade, Jimmy Crute, James Krause, Jonathan Martinez, Gillian Robertson, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hello there, everybody, and welcome to a brand new edition of On to the Next One as we play Matchmaker here on the MMA Fighting Podcasting Network. And this week, we lay out possibilities for some of the notable names from this past Saturday's UFC Fight Island Six event that saw Brian Ortega return after nearly two years away to absolutely dominate the Korean zombie for 25 minutes. I am Mike Heck, and of course, I do not do this alone, joining me in this venture. is the Prince of Positivity, the co-matchmaker, my co-host, my good friend in yours, Mr. Alex K. Lee,

how are you, my man? What a weekend it has been in combat sports. We have a little more, I guess, clearness in a couple of divisions, plus a Lomachenko loss. I mean, this is, what a weekend it was? Plus, we had the conclusion of New Japan Pro Wrestling G1 Climax Tournament this weekend. I mean, and I won't say it, I won't spoil it for anyone, but yes, there's a lot of that action. So really, just the peak of sports was happening this week. And is really about to, of course, unfold next week, which I'm, you know, we'll talk about later. Of course, UFC 254. But Saturday's show ended at a pleasantly early time for us over in North America, over on the East Coast and privately over on the coast. And itself was, it was a pretty decent show. Might not have lived up to some of my

pre-fight expectations, but that was an intriguing main event. That was for sure. Maybe it wasn't the balls to the wall action that people thought it would have been. There wasn't a crazy finish, but it was certainly fascinating in its own way. And definitely a great moment for Brian Ortake's camp. Yeah, it was amazing. The two winners of those two massive made events on Saturday night, all both sort of had the same game plan. Instead of just going out and going crazy and throwing hams, they were patience and they were very methodical in their approach. So I mean, I mean, it's, this is kind of an interesting episode, A.K., because we have to, obviously, we start with the main event. And I would love to get a hot takey,

and fancy with Brian Ortega and throw some sort of curbball, but the truth is we can't, we shouldn't, and we won't. I mean, Brian Ortega's next fight, we'll be with Alexander Volcanowski for the Featherway title, and anything else is just not even worth bringing up because it makes zero sense. Like, right, I mean, I know you like to bring your own sense of fiery hot takes to the table,

but not even Jed Mishu can make a compelling argument for anything else, can he? Jedd Mishu can make a compelling argument to anything. So let's do not invoke his name, otherwise he's going to throw out some dumbass he'll bring in some K1 guy or something to fight Brian or I don't know what that guy's doing but no let's not over thinking he is the number one contender he has been even in his absence his name never left the top five of the

rankings I don't know if anyone convincingly jumped over him during that time we're being perfectly honest I know a lot there's a lot of great work done in the featherweight division I'm sure some people want to say like oh is that beat maybe even a Calvin Cater you know who's been very active during this time during or take his absence so there's been some big winners but I just don't think anyone took his spot. So he needed to beat another contender.

He's in it. He did it. Convincing fashion looked like, I think, the second best feather, second or third best, I should say third, of course, Max Holloway, I still think second best right now. But yeah, I do not even have any other options listed. I usually like to have some alternatives. We've done a lot of matchmaking for other featherweight who have fought recently. So we kind of already have ideas for what the rest of the top ten should be doing.

It just doesn't make any sense for anything but Barner Ticket to wait. and have this Volcanovsky contract situation, just work it out and get this fight signed. I bet by like February of 2021, this fight will be like either a week away from happening or at least booked. It's going to happen. And if that Brian Ortega that we saw on Saturday night

shows up and fights Volcanovski, who's going to be a barn burner. Looking forward to it. Now, for the Korean zombie, that's when things get interesting, right? I mean, this wasn't like Pedro Munoz losing to Frankie Edgar or Angela Hill losing to Michelle Waterson. I mean, there is no controversy here.

There is no debate. This is a one-sided loss if we've ever seen one. And there's not much positive to take away from it if you're the Korean zombie. So I'm curious what you think should be next for good old TKZ after Saturday night. Yeah, he has a lot more options. Look, the sleep schedule messed with people. The zombie had not even awoken from his grave. I don't know who mentioned that.

I think our own Casey, I don't know. You talked to him on the Post-Fite show. I think he might tweet it as well. That, you know, there's some scheduling things with going on with the fighters in the UFC that are on Fight Island. That may affect some fighters different from others. They're all dealing with the same circumstance. May it come from different countries, some different time adjustments, but obviously no excuses. Ortego is fantastic.

And I don't know why I'm making excuses for zombie. I picked Ortega to win. So I should feel good about it. But zombie, I like Edson Barbosa. And especially because on a previous show, I believe for Barbosa, I had said, this was what, last week? These cards were by so fast. I had said, I want, he think should fight the Ortega. He should fight the Ortega zombie loser.

So I think if it's perfectly, it's a Barbosa Korean zombie, amazing fight, two guys who are veterans. And I think we'll both have, I think Zonbo have a bounce back performance against a guy who is, I think, it's very tough. And other options, you know, maybe Max Holloway, but I think we mentioned that as a possibility for Barbosa as well. also that if I could happen instead. Calvin Cater, but I think, yeah, I didn't love that. And maybe the Jeremy Stevens, Arnold Allen winner, but I didn't love that either. So I'd say Edson Barbosa, Korean Zombie.

That's a great, great matcher to me. Yeah, I like that one too. Not my choice, but I do like that one. And I saw some people say that he should fight the loser of Zabit Magamad Sheripov versus Yaira Rodriguez. And listen, we've been waiting years for Ortega Zombie. Magamad Sheripov, Rodriguez, that fight is not done. I'm putting it in the same, like, in the same level.

Until those two gentlemen walk to the octagon and stand face to face and getting referee instructions, I don't believe that fight's happening. So that's just where we're at right now. So for me, I'm with you, A.K., I want to see a little bit of a step back, not too much, but a little bit. And I doubt zombie fights again until, like, maybe the second quarter of 2021 at the earliest. And that's why I'm not going with Barbosa because he wants to get back in right away. And I think he's going to have at least one fight, maybe two, before Zombie can even come back.

So I'm thinking, how about Zombie versus Josh Emmett? Like, whenever Emmett's ready to come back, TKZ will probably be ready to get back in there. The time frames probably will work out. Because, I mean, Zombie is not a guy that fights three, four times a year. I think that's the fight to go with. I mean, I do like Barbosa. If Barbosa is willing to wait that long. to get a fight of that caliber, I'm definitely down for it.

Emmett, is Emmett dealing with an injury or something? Yeah, he had the knee injury in the Burgos fight. But he's one of those guys that, like, heals quickly. Yeah. So I would say, like, probably by the summertime, Emmett will be ready to come back. Yeah, I think Emmett would love, I mean, obviously, that's a huge fight for Emmett, too. I think he'd sign out for that in seconds. So, yeah, and I don't think zombie would shy away from it.

Yeah, I agree. If we're going to wait next year, I think Emmett makes a lot of sense. I'm crossing my fingers that zombies's ready to fight again. But that was a really tough fight. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the medical suspensions come out this week, and he's got maybe a bit of a potentially lengthy layoff waiting ahead of him. And now in the fight that left the best taste in your mouth, AK, the co-made event. Jessica Androge makes her 125-pound debut.

She puts away the number one ranked flyweight in the world, Caitlin Chugheyin in the first round. And the question is, one, why didn't you pick Jessica Androge by K.O. in your prediction picks. And two, does that performance put Androge above Cynthia Calvio, above Lauren Murphy, who must have the longest winning streak in the division right now outside of Shepchenko, of course. But Murphy's fighting Liliash Akarova at UFC 254, not fighting Calvio anymore.

What do we do with Androge here? Can we justify after one fight in one victory giving her the winner of Shepchenko versus Jennifer Maya? Kenji Kagan is eight inches taller. I don't know if you know about this. King's Kienjian is 8 inches or 7.5 inches from who you ask, taller than Jessica and Drash.

I just want that to be clear for anyone who wasn't aware of that. And I do not know why we had done the preview show. I had picked Androge on the preview show. Yes. And then when I actually did my predictions later, I flip-flopped. I flipped flops.

I waffled. It just made so much sense that you Kagan would win. I should have focused on the one factor, which I said that Yucayin does not have the power, the punching power of Namajunus or Yuania. That's where the similarities in those matchups with Andraj ended. And I should have thought about that because that was a big factor.

You could see part of the way through the fight that Andraj was not intimidated by the kind of the counterstriking and the volume striking that Chukhagi was trying to throw out there. She just wasn't. She walked right through it, got into her range, just smoked her. So I don't know. I should have gone off my gut. But my gut has been so terrible. My gut for this matchmaking is, yes, that yes, she has jumped the line. I think it's very reasonable for her to fight the Shochenko-Maya win.

Only because I think Lauren Murphy will beat Liliya Shakarova. And I think if Lauren Murphy wins that fight, I think she should get the chance to wait, to wait to fight the winner of then the Androj versus either Schochenko or Maya winner. So that's what Lauren Murphy wants to do. She may just want to fight again and cement her spot. You know, she might want to fight again for the end of the year. I don't know how busy she wants to stay. But I don't know if it's fair for Lauren Murphy, like you said.

She's got a long winning streak. this would be her why can't I find this? This would be her fourth straight win if she wins on Saturday. Not a foregone conclusion, but she'll be favorite,

I'm sure. Her fourth straight win at 125 pounds. So I don't know if that's fair for her to make Lornemer fight again. I'd rather see her weight. There's a couple of flyweight matches coming up, but they're just a little too far ahead for me. They're in January, Joanna,

Joanna Calderwood and Jessica I and then Roxanne Matafari and Viviana Arrucho, both happening in January. I think I'm a lot of, And Raj, not that she won't want to fight, she might want to fight in January herself, is what I'm saying. You know what I mean? I don't know if she wants to wait for those matches to unfold and then have to wait for her own, you know, to be paired up. So the other possibility was maybe Cynthia Calvilla, of course, you know, just only, you know, with true for a COVID test.

So hopefully everything's okay with her. And she can be rebooked soon. But I think, and I think a lot of fans are just like, let's see her fight to Scherjanko or Maya. Throw her in there. She was so impressive. Like, probably like 915 Eastern Standard Time on Saturday night. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Jessica Drodge's fighting for the title.

Like her next fight would be for the flyaway title. And now that I sit here and really think about it, I literally have no idea what they're going to do with this one. Like I have no clue. Like you could certainly throw her into a title fight. And like you said, not a lot of people are going to complain about it. But the fact that,

the fact that Lauren Murphy is staying on this UFC 254 card, willing to travel to Abu Dhabi because she found out about this news before she left that Calvia wasn't going to be there, taking on a completely out of, nowhere fighter who nobody knows that's 8 and 1 who's on a three-fight winning streak. This is a pretty risky proposition with everything on the line. And she could have absolutely said no.

She didn't. So I think that has to count for something, AK. So if Murphy wins next Saturday and Chavchenko not the most active fighter on earth, what if we did Murphy versus Andrange? Okay. I mean, I don't know. Honestly, like there's time before a decision has to be made. as of now, I think Androge will get the title shot,

but as long as Jessica Androge's next fight is against Shochenko or Maya, Lauren Murphy, or Cynthia Calvillo, all those work for me. If I'm Lauren Murphy, I want no part of that fight. I want no part of that Jessica Androger's, I'm sure she's confident. I'm sure she feels like she could, she could beat her. Maybe she could. Maybe she could.

But I just, gosh, Jessica Andrade is just so dangerous. I don't want anyone, and for any reason, would ever want to step into the cage with Jessica Andrage. Even if you're about, to Shavchenko. I think you have to have some hesitation to step into this. She's just such a, such a dangerous, dangerous fighter. One of them, again, one of the most dangerous female fighters that UFC has ever seen. I think in any, I think a short of Amanda Nunez. I don't know if there's someone who's a more feared fight finisher. So I'm sure Murphy would not be against it, but

I think she'd be smart not to. There's difference between being being, being, I'm not saying she'd be afraid of the fight. I'm saying that she'd be smart not to take it. But she is our, again, look, she's already in a tough situation, like you said this Saturday. Facing someone who has nothing to lose, the debuting UFC fighter who could just take her spot. But you're right. They're keeping her on the card. Hopefully that's because they think highly of Lauren

Murphy. And I would not be adverse, of course, Lauren Murphy getting like I said, getting that tell shot ahead of Androge. But like you said, if that happens, then I don't know what they do with Androoge. I really don't. No clue. Like, I literally have no idea. And I was super confident in Chukagin getting a decision win until like five seconds into the fight when Andrage bullrushed her.

So confident. You made me confident. I'm sitting there doing the live blog and I'm like, I cannot believe Androge already has her against her the fence. It's literally five seconds into the fight. And I was like, this is not good. This is going to be a long night for Chiquetain if it happened this quickly. But here we are. I was

wrong. You guys were wrong, but then I listened to you. I know. Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? That's right? So really, I got nothing to say. I got nothing to say. Unbelievable. And now we've got to talk about one of the big stars of UFC Fight Island Six. I mean, Adrages is a big star.

Ortego's a big star. But Jimmy Crute violently puts away Modestis Bukoskis in the first round. Perhaps too much too soon for Modestis? Like I saw that a lot on social media, and I guess you can't argue with that. But perhaps Crude is just that damn good, A.K., maybe he's just a lot better than we thought he was.

And now he calls on Nikita Krilylov, and I dig it. Not what I'm going with, A.K., this is the point where we give Crude... Not saying that Cryloff's not a veteran, but we give him like a big vet test. Not just a vet test, but you put him in there with the guy, that has fought for a UFC title.

So I'm going to piggyback off of fellow Canadian Gregory Allen, Kroot versus OSP. That is the fight I want to see. What do you say, AK? Our old friend Craig Allen, of course, who graciously gave us his comment on Twitter, who also suggested a Paul Craig rematch.

I don't know if he remembered that Jimmy Crew and Paul Gregory had already fought. But the OSP one does make a lot of sense, not against it. I leaned towards, I lean towards Johnny Walker. I know we've matched up Johnny before and recently, and we've done it recently. I think we both liked the idea of him maybe fighting the Shogun Craig rematch winner.

I picked. I picked Anthony Smith. Who's now booked to fight Devin Clark, which I'll mention it as well. But so with that out of the way, I think that kind of frees of Johnny Walker on your matchmaking schedule. Not for me exactly because I did like, again, Walker versus either Shogun or Craig. But again, that's a month from now. If they don't, if Jimmy Crute doesn't want to wait, and if Johnny Walker also doesn't want to wait for that, that month away is a long time.

So, you know, that match could be made tomorrow, you know, or at least in talks tomorrow, right? And then, and then who knows, and now it's in a couple of weeks. So I like Crute, Johnny Walker. I feel they're about in the same stages of their careers, maybe. Again, yeah, I didn't care that much than Akita Kralov callout, didn't love it. I prefer to always be over that. And then, yes, I thought about Anthony Smith, a Devin Clark winner. I thought about it. That's it.

I really just thought about it. And then my notes, and my notes, I wrote, me. But actually, if Devin Clark beat Anthony Smith, that would probably make a lot of sense for Jerry Group. So, so I will say I like it more for Clark than I would for Anthony Smith. But I think Johnny Walker. I think that's a fight people really like to see. And I know people will go, oh, no, it's too like, you know, too light, heavyweight,

like up and cumbers against each other. I'm like, that's fine. That's fine. It's not going to kill them to lose a fight. Just be a good, good, exciting fight and good for both their careers, I think. I actually like the idea of Oostomier more than Krylov. Oh, that's a big jump up. That's a big jump.

I mean, just give it to him. Give him what he wants. But I'd like to see OSP. I think that's like a good test. It's a good name to having your resume if he can get it done. And OSP is like Jim Ross is tougher than a $2 steak. So he might be able to eat some of those shots better than some others like Bukoskis did. And a big win for him as we go from Jimmy to the more proper name, James.

The James Krause gets the win over Claudio Silva on just 12 days notice. It was the first legitimate. loss of Claudio Silva's career. I know he has a loss in his first professional fight, but it was like a BS 12 to 6 elbow disqualification bunch of garbage. So this is like the first legit loss of Claudio Silva's career. But Krause continues, man. Pick up wins at 170 pounds. He's won five straight at 170. He's got seven straight wins in fights not at 185 pounds and fights that he doesn't take on a day's notice. The guy just keeps getting it done, A.K., what do we do with Mr. Krause, after this victory.

Yeah, you know, he is, who I think he's in Abu Dhabi doing some analyst work. He said it on social media. Look, Krause really is, has the pedigree of like a top 10 welter. At least top 15. I don't know about top 10, but like top 15. Four and O'N O'Ns, last four fights at 170 in the UFC. People who remember the Devin Clark fight was a very last second fight at 185 pounds. So you can't, which he might have won, by the way.

I remember that one of the judges really tough. I thought he beat Trevin Giles. I thought he beat him. I'm sorry, Trevin, I'm sorry, not Devin Clark, I'm Trevin Giles. Trevin and Dev, I can't be believe. That's right. But yes, that was a really, really good fight. And one of the judges made an absolute meal out of that card.

So I don't know. It should have at least been, it could have been a win for Cressor, at least a draw. I remember one of the judges just out to lunch. So really, you could say he's 5 and 0 and he's on a five-fight win streak. But again, at the very least 4-0 in his last four fights at 170 pounds. So, yeah, I think he's worthy of a ranked guy. I don't like the, so that's one of the reasons I don't like the Buckley matchup, which also, by the way, sounds like it could have stemmed from a misunderstanding.

Do we know, you spoke to him, you spoke to Buckley, right? I spoke to Buckley. He brought up the James Krause thing that he wanted to fight him. Okay, we had to, I don't want to sidetrack the whole matchmaking show, but he said James Krause contacted, oh, he was told that James Krause had contacted him on Instagram with some harsh words, correct? Yeah, there's some sort of DM that that came. Buckley's way or somebody else's way and Buckley wouldn't reveal what these DMs said.

He didn't want to break the bro code. Which is, of course, a la Column Greger. But and then, and then Krause was very vocal about Buckley at the Post-Five Press Conference Saturday saying he's not, he is not fond of him. He's, you know, Krause is rarely, I would say, is the kind of guy to talk that much trash for anyone. So it seems really personal. Was James Krause incensed by a fake Joaquin Buckley account?

Have you heard the possibility of that? I've not heard the possibility of this. Immediately after Buckley's lightning fast chaos, one of those stupid, stupid parody accounts changed their name at Walking Buckley because Walking Buckley's Instagram is at Newman's 94 or something like that, right? It is not his name. So unfortunately, that tag was available.

Someone changed their name at Walking Buckley and was just firing stupid, stupid stuff of people. And I think may have directed a comment at James Scott. The account has now been shut down. May have directed a comment at James Cos, which I feel like may have directed to comment at James Cos, I feel like we have sparked this whole thing. So we're going to get to the bottom of this.

I don't know. It could be something other amazing. Krause said that this stemmed from months ago, like way before the knockout. Like he asked. It was like sick. It might have been before that. Yeah. Right.

Because he reached out and said, can I train with you? And I guess like Buckley has, Krause had Buckley has a reputation of like talking trash about a bunch of like his fighters. So he basically said like, eat kick rocks. And I'll say that as clean as. possible because there's a i believe it was get effed was was was krause's exact words all this fake account though now i have i like both guys so much i think is i want the fake i want the feet to be fake it could be very very real so uh but i'm just throwing that i heard someone uh that's someone

say like maybe it was this fake count but anyway um what were we talking about oh who should james cross fight uh i like i like vgenti luke i like vizente luke uh who i think is still in the top 15 he's right still himself trying to crack one of the top 10 so i don't know if luke would like that but style wise would be a great fight i think uh i i just like to see that one go down. I'll mention this because I think we have to mention them on the show. I actually think Krause is a, as a, you already know where it's going. I actually think Krause is a proper test for Shamiyev. I think Hamza Shemayev is, after Amir Sharia, I think,

I think he's a next level up if he takes his next fight at 170. There's a lot of good fights. I'm still not against the Damian Maya thing, but Kraus Shemaiv, I think, is out there. And again, whenever Shemaiah wants to fight, they could book this fight next week, and Shemaiah and Kraus would both sign on for. That's all I'm saying. But so I prefer, I think Vicente Lucay is a more logical matchup. It's because I want to see how many. Let me just, okay, okay.

I appreciate those who want to see the James Krauss get a top 15 or a top 10 matchup. I appreciate that because he's got a resume, he's got a lineage. Just guys been fighting forever. Like, you know, we shout, we give Mazadol this praise for being an OG. Like, Krauss might even be like more OG than Mazadol. I mean, he's got well over 100 fights. under his belt. The guy is just a gangster. He'll take a fight on a day's notice and all that stuff. The problem is, it's so hard to book James Krause a fight. And he even admitted that in the

post-fight scrum, like, they're like, I think John Morgan asked him, like, what do you want next? Like, he asks to all these fighters in the scrum, and he's just like, listen, I know it's not the answer you want to hear, but I have like 14 UFC fighters that I train. He's about to, he's training Megan Anderson to fight Amanda Nunes. So you know where his schedule is going to be the next couple months, plus the other fighters that he has on the roster that have fights already booked, and then there's like half of them that don't have fights booked, but probably will. It's impossible to book this guy a fight. But for the first time, maybe in his entire career, he actually said a name.

It's got to be Buckley. It's got to be the Buckley fight. Like, I know Buckley's fighting Jordan Wright on November 21st, but we don't know the extent of Krause's knee injury that he suffered in the fight because he thought he tore his knee in the first round. But for me, AK, like, it's very rare we get Krause with a name. so win-lose-tie, it's Krause versus Buckley until the day I die.

After that, I mean, whatever you want to do with, Chris, you want to give him a top 10 guy, but let's 1 billion percent see how this feud plays out. It would get a lot of us, you know, working on and figuring out whether this is a fake feud or not, which I get, I hope it is. I really hope this is. It's real, man.

It seems real. I mean, Buckley started it. But I wonder if it was the fake buckley. Because when people make these fake accounts, they tweet like a lot of people. They tweet out a lot of people, and then those comments get retweeted. And I don't know.

But obviously, Kraus would actually probably know people who actually know him in real life. Yeah, they're from the same area. But I just don't know. Now I'm worried. I hope it's fake. It very well could be real. It very well could be real.

But I think it's real. I think Kraus would kill him. But I don't know. Maybe. I don't know if Buckley's on his level yet. I mean, 185 size to make a difference too. Oh, no. A Buckley can fight it's going down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bucking can go down. Okay. He's a huge 70. He'd be a huge 70. Guys, don't get, don't get into it over this fake Twitter feud. Come on, we got to figure out. We've got to trace this.

We've got to trace this. I think there's definitely smoke. Like, Buckley brought it up himself. There definitely is now. I mean, there's words have been spoken in real life. They cannot be taken back now, unfortunately. I remember I DM'd, I DM'd Jose on Slack. I'm like, ask Krause about Buckley.

And he goes, what did he say? And I, like, gave him the link to the article. And he was just like, he asked it so perfectly. He goes, is there something going on with you and Buckley? And he let Krause tell the whole story. It's beautiful. Go and go ahead, sir. The stage is yours.

As we move ahead, I mean, this is, that was a Shemayef-esque sort of matchmaking, you know, time frame there. It was like five, six minutes. Just talking about the James Krause and Buckley. But I think this might be the time to go with the name that I think I've been asked about the most since Saturday night. The question I've been getting all over the place, DMs, social media, Twitter, what's next for the silence behind the violence? Jonathan Martinez. Guy gets a short-noticed fight against Thomas Almeida, looked pretty damn good,

got the biggest win of his career. And in my mind, AK, this man has won five in a row. I'm like many others who believe he beat Andre Ewell at UFC 247. And I believe, as I've said many times in the show, this exact term, he got the big fat hose job from at least one judge, maybe two. But here's the thing. People ask me this question a lot.

135 is so ridiculously good right now. so deep that there really isn't a wrong answer. I mean, I guess there is, but I think, I think we know where he is right now. He's probably like a top 25, top 30-ish guy at 135. I think that's fair to say. I saw some people say, it might have been Jose who said this, give him the winner of Nathaniel Wood versus Casey Kenny. I don't dislike that idea, but I feel the winner of Wood versus Kenny is likely getting ranked. It's likely getting a number next to the name. So let's get Jonathan a fight that could, potentially do the same thing or get him like one win a way closer to being in that same

spot as what in Kenny. So how about we match him up against a guy who got the party started on Saturday night? Jonathan Martinez versus Saeed Namaga made off. Like that's a really interesting stylistic matchup. And I think honestly, I don't have like rankings like you have AK. I have Saeed just on my mental rankings ranked higher than Jonathan Martinez. So technically would be a step up for the draft. But I like that matchup to see who would be the next one to break out.

What do you think? I do have Saeed and Nurembergmane ranked absurdly high. I think because he beats someone good in his UFC debut, didn't he? I'm not crazy. Like he came in and had fought tough. He fought Justin Skagins. Oh, Justin Skagins and Ricardo Ramos were his first two years. And those are both very, very solid guys at 135.

So I have Saeed in my top 30 already. He did lose to Ronnie Barcelos, but Ronnie is also a good fighter. So I don't know if I'd rank him higher than, yeah, no, I'm with you though. No, that's not crazy. I would have him higher than Jonathan Martinez. When you started talking about how deep bantan weight was there, for a second, I thought you were going to suggest he may want to take a break from 135 and stick at 145, where his fight with Thomas Almeida took place on Saturday because it was a short notice affair for Martinez,

so they did the right thing. And thank goodness did not try to make Martinez have to make 135 with little time to repair. So it wasn't $1.45 bout. And honestly, the part of me, Mike, that said maybe he should consider staying at 145. He did not look small for the weight class at all, though he was facing another 135er who, so that may explain it. He had trouble making weight in his last fight with Frankie's signs, I believe it was. And he missed weight real bad. Like, he was not even close.

So I don't know sure what went wrong there, but he missed wait real bad. So I think featherweight is in this future. But if we're assuming he sticks a phantom weight, I'm going to go with someone that I originally matched up with Chas Skelly when he won a fight when this guy in question want to fight recently. But Chaz Skelly, again, is kind of in limbo. I just don't know when he's coming back. So I'm okay with kind of moving on from this matchup. So I like Billy Quantillo. I think John Martinez, Billy Quarantillo would be a fun one.

Like we said, Martinez essentially on a winning streak. If we're being subjective, I think he's on a win streak better than just two. I think he's maybe on a five-fight win streak. and Quarantillo, undefeated in the UFC so far. So I say throw them in there, and let's just, again, let these guys, one of these guys lose their streak, unfortunately, but it would be very entertaining fight. Yeah. Gavin, Corantillo versus Gavin Tucker seems to be the direction that everybody wants to go. Sure.

I mean, listen, that's a good fight. That's a good fight. Yeah. I mean, when you got a guy like Martinez, you can put him in there with anybody. Like, they're all good fights. He's just getting better and better. My goodness. Once that guy can, like, I mean, he's got a little, once you get him going, he does have a little bit.

bit of a personality, but like, I don't know. I just, he's just so shy. It's just so funny. You didn't, he was like, you, you have a son. It was like getting your son to say hi to people that he's like not comfortable with like, you know, strangers. So they're like, say hi to your uncle. Say hi to your uncle. He's like, no, no, no, no, it's like, you know, that you're like said that you know the personality's there. You know, he seems like a good kid, uh, Martinez, seems like a good kid. But it's just not those bright lights and being on TV. It's not for everybody. You know, DC, DC, again, was like that big uncle, try like, come here, come here. Okay, call somebody out. This is your moment, Martinez. He was like,

I don't know. And then TC doubled down. I was like, are you sure? Are you sure? You don't want to throw a name out there? This is your time. No, no, nobody. Nobody right now. He really did remind me of like a young kid. At a family gathering.

Just uncomfortable at a family gathering. He's like that. So, to move on here, I got a little confused by like what prelim fight we were going to pick and then what the wild card was, but we figured it out. I insisted. I insisted that

this be a mandatory pick for both of us, Canadian content. Gillian Robertson. Yes. Gillian Robertson. G. Rob. Good old G. Rob. And it's interesting because she was not happy with her performance. But at the same time, she dominated a very tough customer in Pollyanna Botelio.

And she wants to turn right back around and fight again. And she called out Antonia Shepchenko, who already has a fight booked. And I went on Twitter immediately after that call, and I said, spoiler, I will not be picking that fight. I will not be picking Gillian Robertson versus Antoninichichichich. I think you guys, I think you guys know where I stand on Antoninita Shepchenko at this point. All right. So before I reveal my choice, AK, this is your suggestion. You wanted G. Robb, this is mandatory booking. You let us know. You know, it's funny. As I was looking over her, what's next for her, I was kind of looking over the options that I didn't pick for Andjuraj. So I think Robertson,

again, like usually she wasn't happy with her performance, probably wants to fight soon. But career-wise, she may want to wait for some of those matchups we mentioned. Like, I think the winner of Jessica I, Calderwood, is ideal. It's a shame that, again, that it is January 23rd, so it is quite a bit a ways away. So Robertson would have to wait until at least February or March for this fight to happen. And same way that the Modafari Our original matchup again, January 30th.

So I honestly think those would be best for her. But, you know, if we're going to go same, card. I don't think a fight with Caitlin Chichagin is out of the question. I know Chagin was essentially then it was the number one contender heading into Saturday's card. But Robertson is right up there. Like I know she's, you know, again, just around the top 15, but she has so many wins at Flyway, she just hasn't got that big win or hasn't strung together that big streak.

I think it's fair to put her in there with Chukagin and see where she's at. I'm not saying I expect her to beat Chukagin, but I think it'd be a good litmus test to see to see how Chukagin bounces back from a really, really tough loss, really disappointing performance and if Robertson is actually someone who could even if in a competitive loss you know could she compete for a title in the future this is this is tough for me again i i was amazing i could not hate the Antonina Shepchenko idea anymore like leave Antonina alone listen and it's not her fault it's not her fault she got thrown to the wolves right away yes because you know the last name she had the nice performance on the contender series against fire that wasn't that

great. And then, you know, she looked good in the Newark fight. But like, I think Ariana, I think Ariana Lipski has a very good chance of winning that fight to UFC 255 and a very good chance of finishing Antonina Schochenko in that fight if we're being honest. Like, I wanted, I wanted Chifchenko to fight like the Justine Kish's of the world. Like, and even that's a tough fight in my opinion, because Kish has evolved so many times over the year. So the problem for Robertson is that loss to Macy Barber is still etched in everybody's minds. Like, people are still thinking about that because that was like, that was billed as like the show stealing fight on that Boston card. And Barber just ran through her like a Mack truck.

And Robertson has definitely evolved and gotten better since that fight, but people still have that in their mind. Even like going on social media, like I tweeted out after the win. I'm like, that was domination by Jillian Robertson, very impressive. And people are like, no, it's kind of boring. Don't really care about seeing her again, which is interesting. She is kind of like Jonathan Martinez in a way because she's bubbly and she's got the red hair and you know, she's not bad to look at. But she's kind of shy and doesn't have that big personality. So I have two choices.

One, Sabina Mazzo. Because I want a Lipski Mazzo. Now we can do Robertson Mazzo. I think that's a fun fight. Robertson, I think, is 15. Mazza is probably like 17 right now. So that's a good test. And Mazzo is a killer.

Fun fight. And the other, if you want to give her a. ranked fighter. I like the idea of her versus Montana, Montana, Dela Rosa. 15 versus 12. Dela Rosa's lost two out of three. Needs to get a win badly.

Robertson just can't, and Della Rosa can't pick and choose right now. She can't be calling people out. She's got to fight the Robertsons of the world. And Robertson is a tough out. So I think Mazo or Dela Rosa works just fine for me. Yeah, De La Rosa and of course, also

grappler. So, I mean, you have a favorable matchup for, for Robertson, or maybe for De La Rosa as well. But I think that's why I don't like. I think Robertson really needs to work on striking. That's fair to say. Just at least relative to her grappling. Her grappling game is so strong that that's what I mean.

I'm not criticizing her striking as being bad or anything. But it's not at the level of her grappling. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But it's almost too much in their comfort zones. I'm going to push these fighters out of their comfort zone. That's why I like the Mazzo idea. Yeah. Mazzo is going to try to kick her head off.

Mazo, for me, I have so far, pretty far behind her in the rankings. But also keep in mind, the flyway rankings are not that deep. It's a very strong division, I think, but there's only, I think, 40 fighters, maybe around 40 fighters. So the difference between like 15 and 25 is not that big. It's like, you know, it's a smaller gap than 10 spots would suggest. So I don't mind it. Yeah.

Again, this was a tough one. The flyway division, we've mentioned this in the past. They've been really good about keeping it moving. So matching it up is actually kind of difficult because I think I think matchwigs are doing a good job with it. I don't feel the need to push some of our suggestions on them. So, yeah, they've got, they've been given their fighters options. And often the best decision is just to wait, which I think has worked out well for a lot of these fighters. But, yeah, I think we've given them some good options.

Sure. And now it's time for everyone's favorite segment. The Wild Card round. We choose a fighter. We haven't a match made for yet from this card. We do it right now, whether it be a prelim winner, main card loser, a referee, a judge, a commentator. It is the Wild Card round after all. Of course, I kid A.K., we're going off this card.

We will begin with you. Take us on this journey. What is your wild card selection? I'll be quick because my wild card selection sucks, and I want to get to our excellent readers questions. I wanted to match up Thomas Almeida, because I'm a fan of his. I'm not going to lie. I thought it was a little disappointing, but he's not meant to fight at 145.

It's just not his weight class. He's a good-sized 135er, and that's a cut I feel like he can make. He said to, I think he told Guy Cruz, our own Guy Cruz before, that he might stick around 145 to how the fight goes. It did not go well. don't stick around in 145. He had the upper weight class cut, as I said, on Twitter that you've seen from fighters when they go up. Anderson Silva had it when he used to fight a light heavy weight.

I'm not shaming anyone. He's still in phenomenal shape, but there's a noticeable difference between that 10 pounds makes a notable difference for some guys when they move up. We're 15 pounds spending depending what they're doing. So I just kind of throw out, I was struggling. I just threw out, you're I have Faber? Is that a fight favor? I don't know if that's a fight favor would get up for it, to be honest. But I'm throwing it out there.

I think Alameda should challenge him. I think I may I need to start talking some trash. Maybe he shouldn't talk too much trash after Saturday, but that is my wildcar pick. I struggled with anything else, but only because, again, our readers had a really good suggestions, and I didn't want to steal them. So there you go. That's my offense. Fair enough.

I mean, it's, again, my wildcar pick was going to be Jillian Robertson. So I'm going with, I'll go with Guram Kutateladze. I think he deserves his due after a fight of the night win over Mateus Gamrott. I thought the judges got it right. I thought Guram made his moments count more than Gamrod did. Like Gamrod got some takedowns and some cool stuff, but I thought Guram won the fight. So Guram could say whatever he wants, but I thought he won. And after the fight, he calls out Islam Makachev, which after you beat a guy like Gamrod,

it's not an outlandish request by any means. I mean, he's got the Shemayev connection. So what do you do? Because it's really, it's one of those fascinating discussions because now he has this buzz coming off a fight of the night. everyone's talking about him. The dude is fun to watch. But do you just fire him in there with a top 15, top 20 guy?

Do you give him a fight with the veteran? Do you give him another up-and-comer? Like, how do you handle the situation? So I think, AK, let's meet the middle. We give him a guy who's had some big wins in the UFC, a guy who has slowed down, quote-unquote, hype trains in the past, and is a very tough test, a good litmus test to see where Guram Kutatelaze is. We haven't seen him in a while.

how about Kutatalatei versus Dracar close? He had that ridiculous fight with Darius, closest five and two in the UFC, tough customer, probably a top 25 to 30 guy. I think that's a fair and reasonable matchup for Mr. Kutatalate. Yeah, okay. I do have close to the top 25, which I think, I think it's a little high, but I would have had Gamrod if he won. I mean, I think everyone's really high on him.

He probably would have been at least in the top 35 if he had won, so I settled them kind of both into the 40-something range. So it's not unreasonable to say that Kuta Latsi is closer to that top 25 than some might think. So I don't hate it. I don't hate it. I think style-wise, everything, that's a good match-out. Man, close though.

Five and two in the UFC, he probably wants to fight someone above them. But like you said, when you haven't been, when you haven't fought for a while, sometimes you kind of just got to take the matchups that they tend to you. And there's some, there's some heat here behind the Kutat-Latze name. And you're right,

maybe close to one takes over that. Yeah. I mean, you just got brutally knocked out by Binal Dari. You haven't fought in a while. You haven't been that active. I think you can't just have to take it. And the opportunity to take some hype, I mean, that's what got him over before. He fought Mark G. Casey and stopped him.

I mean, didn't stop him, but he got to win over him and stop that train. So maybe he can do it again and get back up. I mean, 55 is just so ridiculous right now. So, I mean, it's tough. So let's get some social media thoughts and comments here from the viewers. Readers and tweeters, I will run these down quickly. Jun Yong Park, I wanted people to get to see people's input on it, and I saw just a couple of mentions. A lot of it based off, of course, what I thought was the tweet of the night from Caposa, Agrabaca, Hitman.

Jun Yon Park should be ranked in the top 10 after this. To do this, to all caps, John Phillips? I mean, wow. Obviously, the Shemaya hype, which again, we have talked about this before, okay? So, yeah, you know, unfortunately, John Phillips based another grappler. And then a lot of people are making jokes, oh, you should fight Reese McKee next. ha ha ha ha ha so some interesting uh so just some jokes there for jen yon yon park who by the way i think was one of the underrated stars the night not just for his performance but his showing off his

personality sure uh jillian robertson someone said i'm saying this to shame this person at 70 alley cat alan turnbull uh oh i'm not shaming this guy he wants he well he wants to see a championship fight for jillan robertson settle down uh i don't i think it was a little crazy at gregg de carlo said McKenzie Dern Greg, Grego, McKenzie Dern is booked to fight Virna Jandrova. So big red X there,

family to Red X there for Grego to Carl. I'm sorry. Jonathan Martinez, we had a suggestion from, good suggestion, from MMA Breck, Rob Font. I think we've matched up font a bunch of times. We just want to see Rob Font fight again. Rob Font rules. Yes. Might be a little too much for Jonathan Martinez

right now, but I don't mind it. I don't mind it. It's not what I would have picked. We mentioned a shout-out to our boy, Craig Allen, for the Jimmy Crute matchup. Tom Ross, also. opening string crew he likes osp as you said and he liked the cryloff call out so that's out there that cryloff fight really could happen

it's not our not our favorite choice but there's a buzz about it at Liam at little obesity V2 on Twitter whoever the hell whoever the hell he wants for friend to crude he's goaded only 24 and he's going to bring that belt home to Australia baby so him and the Jillian Roberts guy

should hang out because everyone just just settle down and then I want to give a special shout out to two of our readers regular readers regular viewers of our streams and regular contributors to OTTNO at Mighty Magic Mart. He wants to see Crute Fight Shogun. Okay. And Ortega versus Volcanovsky, of course, and then in George Richardson.

So he thought those sort of themselves out pretty clearly. He used agreement. And I got an email. I got an email, Mike. Wow. You will recognize this name from our streams. Tristan Gordet, who gave us a full rundown. He likes zombie Jeremy Stevens.

Stevens is fighting. Arnold Allen. Arnold. I mentioned this earlier. That's where I remember he's at. But okay, sure. If Stevens wins, sure. Crute OSP or Crude Craig.

What is what this crude Craig? Do people not, I really feel that thirsty for Crute Craig too? Was there that many unanswered questions? I love this one. I actually love this one. Jonathan Martinez, Brian Kelleher. Again, we've messed up Kelleher, I think, a bunch of times. But that's certainly up there.

Keller is fighting in January against Ricky Simone. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's okay. So maybe if he wins or win or lose, I think he, Martinez could work out. And Saeed and her Magamettev, this is one that really caught my eye. And I don't I think there's no way it happens. Sayy never recommend him out of Sean O'Malley. Oh, damn.

Oh, I don't know if they put him anywhere near Sean Rally. But I like that. Thank you again, Chistan Gordette, for doing that out there. And thank you for the email. So readers, you guys are stepping off your games. You guys, awesome. Wow. Readers and listeners, I just say.

Now I'm thinking about like, how do you book Sean O'Malley right now? Hmm. Interesting. When he comes, whenever he's ready to fight again, this could be a month or two from now, this whole Lansing, Bantamette is just rock. just rocking right now. So that whole division, I have no idea. It could look different in six weeks.

What if you did O'Malley versus Font? Yeah. You could. God, that's fun. I'm going to see Rob Font. Rod Fond is so good. He's ranked number 11. People think, people forget that. He's really good. I mean, I'm looking at the tough. I mean, the only, the only name in the top 15 that's kind of like in the same neighborhood as him that's not booked is Song Yodong. Which I wouldn't mind that fight either. Fond versus Yodong is a good time. But thank you for Yeah, it's the best division in the sport.

It's the best division in the UFC. It is. Depth-wise, this is the 2008 Boston Celtics of divisions. It's spicy for a Monday morning. Come on. Oh, gosh. It's the 08 Celtics of divisions. No way.

Yeah, this is Eddie House. This is Brian Scalabrini. This is Tony Delk. Wow. This is all of these guys. This is all of these guys. And, of course, we thank you for your suggestions. We want more of them.

So bombard our feeds. We do not mind. A.K.'s on the Twitter at Alexander Klee. I'm at Mike Heck underscore JR as we put a bow on another exciting mission of on to the next one. Join us next week as you put the pieces together following a six-fight main card led UFC 254 event headlined by Habib Nirmaga Madoff versus Justin Gaichi for the undisputed 155 pound strap. Good Lord, I am so excited for that one. I cannot wait.

But until then, we'll have all of your 254 fight coverage right here on MAAfighting.com. For Alex Kaley, I am Mike Heck. Again, don't take it too seriously. Matchmaking, like the sport of MMA in general. It's supposed to be fun. So just have fun. Thank you for listening to on to the next one, the podcast. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.