MMA Fighting - On to the Next One: Episode 2 | Matches to Make Following UFC on ESPN 14

Episode Date: July 27, 2020

MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Alex K. Lee give their takes on what should be next for some of the notable names following UFC on ESPN 14. MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Alex K. Lee give their takes on what should be next for some of the notable names following UFC on ESPN 13 and UFC Fight Island 2. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to a brand new episode of On to the Next One, the podcast here on the MMA Fighting Podcasting Network. I am Mike Heck, being joined by my fellow matchmaker extraordinaire, Mr. Alex Klee. How are you, AK? Oh, Michael Heck. What do we have brewing for the viewers and the fighters today? I was trying a new, I was trying a new, you know, we're still early in the show. I feel like it's not too, you know, we can still establish voices, but I'll just, I'll just talk like

this for now. All right. Well, today we are going to look at some of the matches to make following UFC on ESPN 14 Whitaker versus Till. And if you'd like to give us your thoughts on fights to make after Saturday night's event, hit us up on Twitter, AK is at Alexander Keeley. I am at Mike Heck underscore J.R. A.K., let's get into this thing. Robert Whitaker gets back in the wind calm in the main event of Saturday night's card. He outlasts Darren Till and a very important middleweight main event gets 4847 from all three judges. The Reaper gets it done following the loss to Israel Adesina. My question, AK, where does he go from here?

How can it not be Jack Hermanson? You know, the Joker laid it out so perfectly after his last win. He said, he said Jared Kenanier, fights the winner of Adisina Costa, and I'll fight the winner of Whitaker Till. It makes a lot of sense. It makes sense for where they are in their careers. makes sense for the title implications because Whitaker really shouldn't be more than one or two fights away from a title shot. Hermanson shouldn't be more than one or two fights away from a title shot.

So two classy guys, easily they have the name value. You could headline a, you know, a fight night or again, or be like a featured fight on a paper view. It's, it really just makes so much sense. I have other suggestions, but that's the one that I think, I don't think anyone could argue with. Yeah, to me, this is easy against Hermanson. He laid it out for us last weekend. out perfectly and I said last week and I can't go back on it that if Whitaker wins a close decision the plan makes sense and it does so there's no need for a long explanation. I do see a lot

of people saying that Whitaker should fight Canineer. I don't hate that idea but I don't think I think Canaaner should fight the winner of especially with Darren Till not getting the win on Saturday night. I think Canaaner should fight the winner of Adisina and Costa. I think he's earned that title shot at this point but you know if Paul Costa beats Adisina yeah You know, maybe, but I feel like Hermanson laid it out perfectly for us. I do. I agree. I have a name.

I know we're about to move on. So this is kind of a help transition because I have, I thought of a name, if not the logical choice of Hermanson. A name that could fit for Whitaker or Till. And that is, and I tend to do this a lot, I think. And I think we will in the future throwing out kind of legend's names. Anderson Silva. I don't know when he's coming back. We don't know what's up with the spider.

I know he was recently cleared to train again. after having some sort of, I think, a knee surgery. So, I mean, it's not a fight that Whitaker would want as far as, oh, this gets me closer to a title shot necessarily. Though I guess it would. I guess any win really would get him. He's really, like I said, one win away. It almost doesn't matter who he fights. But I think it's a fight that, again, anyone would take, including, again, I think the man we'll discuss either next or later, Darren Till, you know, coming off a loss, you know, coming off a loss.

I'm sure he would love that match. I think it's intriguing one people would like to see. So if we're going outside the box here, I'm just like people, don't forget about Anderson Silva. He's out there and he's looking for a big middleweight fight. So that that wasn't a till pick. That was a just, you know, y'all must have forgot kind of a thing. Or is that your till pick? That's a little bit of a till pick as well.

I want to hear your till pick first. And then I'll tell you what I think I prefer for till though. All right. Well, as far as Darren Till goes, I mean, he needs knee surgery, it looks like. So who knows how long he's going to be out for. But we do have two guys who are about to throw fist to cuffs in the Octagon next month who are very exciting that fans enjoy watching. and for timing purposes, two guys who aren't incredibly active fighters, a.K., I'd like to see Till get the winner of Yol Romero versus Uriah Hall.

And if we're being fair, win or lose, Till versus Romero, either way, sounds like a blast to me. Till has said in the past, mostly jokingly, that he is afraid of Romero. I think it was when he was saying he was coming up to wait 185 and that was one of the matchups, I guess, that was kind of tussed out there. He's very clearly said he's very afraid of U.S. Romero, as most, intelligent human beings are. So there was that kind of funny element to it. And I'm sure he would sign up for the fight should have happened.

But I'm with you except I would say the Hall-Ramaro loser. I don't know. I don't know if Till, it was a good performance last night. I don't want to say it was so good that we're like, oh, well, he's clearly like, he's clearly still a top five guy. I mean, he knocked out, he beat Gaslim and again, a good fight, but not like a dominant fight. And then he lost in a, you know, in a good fight, but not one that he was dominated in.

So we're definitely seeing how competitive he can be at 185 pounds. He just has the ability to take almost anyone into a hard, tricky fight. And I think that's what's so intriguing about him besides all the social media stuff and his ability to cut a promo and things like that. So I'm again, same matchup, but the Hall of Romero loser, yes, I would prefer Romero, I think, but I kind of like the idea of him fighting Hall too. Hall is so unpredictable. And I think him and Till would bring out the best in each other.

Yeah, I think we're kind of on the same island here, pun completely intended. I guess with Fight Island, but I don't get it. I'm down for either of those. I'm down for either of those fights. And Romero's what lost four in a row, right? Yes. So it's not like, it's not like Romero's ranked number three right now. I mean, it seems like it's surprising that he's not and that he's lost four in a row

because no one really kind of equates that together. But I mean, I think rankings wise, either one of those two guys make sense. But in the co-main event, Mauricio Shogun, Huah defeated the now retired, Antonio, Ruggiero, Nogera, and a fun fight. Both guys just beat the hell out of each other. And people tend to forget this about Jogun, AK. That man has only lost one fight in his last seven appearances. So personally, I think this piece of matchmaking business is going to be pretty easy,

but I'm going to defer to you to go first. It's so easy that I know what you're going to say, and I'm not going to go that way with it. Though I already in advance, I'm agreeing with what you're going to say. But I want to give people a little something else to chew on. As you said, he does have a surprising sort of unbeaten, not unbeaten, but six, unbeaten in six of his last seven. So at the UFC level, I don't care who you're fighting. That's really impressive.

But I'm going to go a little. Oh, and by the way, of course, if anyone's wondering, we are not going to do Antonio Hoseer and Ogera because we wish him happy trails. It was supposed to be his last fight last night. He didn't say anything to the contrary. And he's had a great career. And next for him is just enjoy retirement, enjoy his life. Shogun, I kind of like, I don't know how people feel about this.

Volkan Usdemir. Oh, boy. Volka. No, I don't hate it. Let me finish. Everyone, let me finish. Everyone is listening around. Don't, no, no, no, don't change.

Don't turn the, don't open up another podcast. You can listen about, you know, Segal formations on NPR or whatever later. But no, Vulcan Usdemir is ranked in the top 10 still. You know, he is coming with that loss to your Pajaska. So he fought someone recently. his record in the UFC is is five and four which kind of deceiving because it's all been almost all been against elite competition so that five and four is is a lot better than it looks and I think but I think if you want to give shogun one last hurrah I would like to see him against a somewhat relevant contender I just can't see any like super fun remaining like legend fights for him like we just saw with with a little nod at the trilogy bout so and again ideally most importantly I think has been mentioned is that he wants to fight in front of a crowd so hopefully this can happen some international show if not on Fight Island. I don't know if they end up somewhere in Europe, if that becomes a possibility.

But it needs to be in front of a crowd regardless of who he fights. And I think him and Izdemeer could make a moment, whether it's a happy one or sad one for Shogun. I'm not sure. Interesting. I like that match up quite a bit. I think it's Paul Craig. Those two guys never turned the page. Craig called him out after his win to sort of run that one back.

He also called out Ryan Span and somebody else. I forget who else he called out. But Shogun was sort of at the forefront for the rematch. That makes perfect sense to me. And thank you to Paul Craig and to Shogun Huah for making our jobs just much easier, at least mine anyways. And shouts to a little Nog going off into retirement. What a legend he is.

Fabiisha Redoam submits Alexander Gustafson in the first round. And I bet he cost a lot of people some money on Saturday night. But he's in a very interesting spot with it being the last fight on his UFC deal. And heading in, it was more of, I'm not resigning. this is it. I'm done with the UFC after this fight. And then in the post-fight scrum, he didn't close the door on returning. He was just like, yeah, maybe. I'm not saying no, but I thought he laid it out perfectly in my opinion. I think Bellator, AK, is going to throw a bunch of money at him. He has the Fador bargaining chip that the UFC doesn't have, that one

championship doesn't have. And if he beats Fador, he could fight Ryan Bader for the chance to become a world champion over there. I think his UFC run is done. And he needs, he needs to get that So I think he heads back to work with Mr. Scott Coker, heads to Ballotaur and get some fun fights. What do you think? You know, I think we saw today, wasn't there that story? I think Ali Abdel Aziz tweeted that his management team has now been verified by one championship so they can do business now. So I believe, I think he'll have taken that as a hint that Purdue might head over to one championship. But I don't, he's an Ali guy, right?

Yes. Yeah. But I don't see the major. appeal on that the the one uh championship heavyweight division is very thin unless people are really craving like a fight with brandon it would be a rematch i thought brandon vera right and he didn't uh he knocked him out his ufs hit yeah that's right he knocked him out uh i think if i remember that correctly sorry people my brain's a little rattled um because i totally i totally did not think about the one thing last night until i saw that thing sort of come out this morning um it's third ufc fight he knocked

up brand of her so uh or arjun boulart sure i guess but really there's not a lot of options from in one um it's always a cool place to go and fight i suppose but as far as heavyweights go if we're talking about interesting matchups it's a little short so i i like the fade or thing of course i like the possibility of ryan bader but i i'd like to go full crazy and i said i said look there's no intriguing heavyweight matches in one but i think if you go to japan with risin i think it's time for for doom to go on a freak show run i want him in there with acabono i want him in there with bob sap Mighty Mo. Let's go. Let's get. I think Hongman Choi is still, I don't know if he still had done MMA in a while, but he's still kickboxing so we can see that back in MMA. It's

freak show time. Let's do it. All right. I mean, I don't know if he's at like freak show levels at this point, because I mean, he looked pretty damn good on Saturday nights. I don't know if we're quite there yet, but I don't hate it. I'd watch. Hashtag would watch. New Year's Eve would be, would be a lot of fun. And as far as Mr. Gustafson goes. Thoughts on that. Oh, sorry, I blacked every second. I blacked out again. I've got another kind of a funky pick, which I don't think people are considering.

I don't want to see him return to 205. I mean, I think last night was just, I should say Saturday. I don't know on the skin air, but Saturday was such a tough night for him. I mean, you're talking about a former world champion in Verdume. He's a really, really strong heavy weight. You know, some guys are heavy. Like, that really is a difference. It doesn't matter what they win.

I think they only weighted in the separate about two pounds. It was like 242 for Doom, 240 for Gustafson. But it really doesn't express how strong real heavyweights are. And for Doom is a real heavyweight through and through. And anyone who's watched him grapple, man, he's, once he gets on you, boy, that guy is unreal. And the arm bar he locked on yesterday was just textbook. I mean, textbook had to break a guy down on the ground and pulled off. So it was just a nightmare matchup for Gus.

I, of course, foolishly picked him to win for reasons that are not even worth trying to explain. So Gustafson, I want to see him fight another actually better in heavyweight. But one who I think is a better style matchup for him, Andrei Arlofsky. Ooh, I thought we were going to be in agreement here. here. That was close. I thought about that. I thought about that. Big Ben. Yes. Gus versus Ben Rothwell. I mean, you hear that?

That's me pushing my chips in the middle right now. They're slowly reading. Yep, there they are. They're collapsing in the middle of the table. I am all in on Gus Wilson versus Big Ben Rothwell. And Big Ben would love that because he has said, I think he said ahead of the OSP fight. Like these light heavyways, they're getting a little jumpy. You know, they're getting a little presumptuous as far as thinking like, oh, we'll just go up to heavy weight now because it's a kind of an aging division and take over and Bing Ben was like, it's not going to work out like that. It's not, uh, no, it's really, I'm really, really not about

that life. Yeah, I don't want to see Gus go back to 205. There's no need to cut 35, 40 extra pounds. I thought he looked strong at 240. Just fordome when he takes you to the ground, he's just a savage. Like, doesn't matter if it's Gus Simpson or any, literally anybody else in that division. If he gets you in the mat, that's probably going to happen to you. So, um, lots of options for both those guys. But we go to the strawweight division. Carla Esparza gets the split decision win over Marina Hadeghese. Great matchup. Carla got touched up pretty good, but she was a dog as usual and gets the win.

And listen, there's options for Asparza. There's no doubt about it. I think, and I've said this a bunch of times in our past columns for this, I think the rematch with Yanni and Jacek is 1,000% the fight to make. Because not only that, she needs to get that one back, that bad taste out of her mouth. But if we're really going to, if we're really going to determine if Carla Sparza is ready to fight for the title, she needs to beat Yawani and Jacek to get there. If she wants to, it seems like she wants to get back to the title, but it doesn't seem like

she's in a giant rush to get to the title. So I doubt that Yonah fight happens now because I think Yonah is going to get the rematch Zhang Wei Li with Namiyuta's on the shelf. So I think this one's pretty easy, AK, give the division's newest potential star exactly what she wants. Amanda Hebas wants Carla Aspaja. Let's give it to him. Let's give it to her.

I think it's a big name, right? now for Asparza as well. I think it's a winnable fight for Carla. And Hebas gets a bump either way, in my opinion. If she loses, like, wow, what a, what a savage taking out a legend and a veteran like that, the inaugural strawweight champion in like her fourth UFC fight. And if she wins, that's a huge notch in the old belt. So this is the fight I see happening. I think they go to it to the Asparza versus Heba's matchup. And that's what I think. AK, what's your thoughts on the Cookie Monsters Future after her win on Saturday? Well, Asperza now won four straight. And it's not, I get it.

It's not kind of the sexiest run of results. Unanimous decision, majority decisions, split decision. I know people don't like that. But mostly these fights are pretty competitive and fairly entertaining. I actually thought the fight with Rodriguez was a good one to watch. It was gritty, but in a good way. You know, we call some of these fights grueling sometimes, but this was grueling in like a dramatic way, what you like.

I want to see what the title shot. I think I know it's not something people are clamoring for. And like you said, a matchup with Yowana rematch would be great. They're both at different stages of their careers. I think one of the worst things about MMA is people being so averse to rematches sometimes, but this one makes a lot of sense. But if we're not going to do that, and again, I don't want to doesn't get the rematch, which would also be with Zhang Wili, which would be okay.

I think as far as is worth it. I said on yesterday's on Saturday's Post-Fight show that it's not always, contenders don't always need to be this like amazing challenge for the champion, as weird as that sounds. They need to have a credible resume I find, which helps, which as far as it definitely does. and I like it when they're fresh. It would be their first time fighting.

I just want Zhang Li to get back in there. Let the champion cook. You know, if it's a blowout, it's a blowout. Let the champion cook. Anderson Silva made his name on a lot of blowouts. Some great champions of the past have made their names on styling on opponents. And if Zhang Wili can style on Asparza, more power to her.

And it's a fight I would certainly like to see. I'm not going to say, I'm not going to say I wouldn't hate that because I kind of do hate it. I don't know why. I just, I feel like this story needs to continue. continue building before we get her back into a title shot. I just don't want to see, I think what we've seen from Asparza, especially after the last Theoana, getting back to where she is now has been pretty impressive. I think we can both agree on that, but I just don't want to see it, her thrust into that spot and have her lose and then just have that her opportunity to become

a champion once again after being the first in the division, just deteriorate because she's only going to get one more chance at it. Like if she goes in there now and lose the John Wheely, she's not fighting for a title anytime soon, if ever again. So I want that story to be built up a little more. Maybe it's just me being a nostalgic storyline guy, the pro wrestling mark, so to speak. But I'd rather see that sort of Rick Flair build where you just keep fighting until you lose. Just keep going. And then you get the title shot. And if you lose, then we go from there. But I'll be honest. I'll be honest. Maybe I'm just not confident that she can get past Yawanna or, or Hivas. Maybe that's it. Maybe I'm maybe that's why I'm trying to rush Carla into this. Maybe I'm thinking too

much about her getting a title shot and not worrying, like you said, about whether she can reach the point where she can actually really have a chance to win it. Yeah, give her Hebas, give her Claudia, those fights that she has expressed interest in. And then if she wins both those fights and she's in that position where you just have nothing else to do, then you give her the title shot. But I think she wants to get there, but I have to see that Yoana fight before it happens. And I haven't heard her say Yoana's name once. But let's head to the Fight Island MVP, AK.

And no, it wasn't Kamar Usman. wasn't Jorge Mazdaal, wasn't Peter Yan, wasn't Alexander Volcanovsky, not Calvin Cater, not Davis of Figuerato, not Robert Whitaker. It was Hamzat Shemayev, two dominant near-perfect finish wins over a 10-day span. I think he outstruck John Phillips and Reese McKee a combined like 7,041 to 2. I mean, I'm exaggerating, but it was like 192 to 2 or something like that. You know how I feel about this AK, and I'm going to get into it in a moment. moment, you don't necessarily agree with me on this one, but what is next for one of the most

terrifying new fighters in the sport of mixed martial arts? Listen, all the respect in the world to Chimayev, he went from unknown to internationally known in the span of 10 days. Maybe one of the five, you know, most successful names to come out of this fight on, these four Fight Island card, which is crazy. We can consider who was the kind of people that were booked on it. I mean, Usman, Masvedal, Figurado. Hibas, Whitaker, there was so much star power.

And I would put, Tumaya, in that top five of the people who competed, which sounds as absurd. However, that splashing sound you hear is the turd meeting the punch bowl, perverbally speaking. Because I don't know, I don't know why are people so hungry to see this guy of rush. That's just his eighth pro fight. Okay. And the two guys he fought with respect to John Phillips and Reese McKee are not, do not. have strong wrestling. John Phillips,

incredible punching power has zero grappling ability. This is proven. Reese McKee, a little more unproven as some sums of a grappling game, but not the kind of wrestling that's near the level of a Chimae.

So I can't speak to his opponents before the UFC, but I need to see him face zone with some semblance of takedown defense first before we start saying he should go in there with like, again, Kamar Usman or Taran Woodley, whatever names it is,

that all these names that got thrown out yesterday. Everything, like these dream matches. So I'm excited for Chimaev. I want to see him fight a star someday, but what is the rush? So I, as I did, as I've mentioned previously, I am throwing in a very practical and boring name, who has who beat a UFC veteran recently, by the way, former contender series contract winner, Miguel Baezza. They have identical 8-0 records, do the math. Let's all settle down.

You cannot put two unbeaten prospects against each other. I just did right now. You can't do that. Mike, I just did. Then you just, you wipe one of them away. Like, what if he goes out there and just steam rolls Baezza, which let's be honest, most people expect that to happen. And this is enough that gets Baezza. But then he's done.

You just knocked him back to like the bottom of the division. We learn more from our losses than our wins, Michael. We learn more from losses that our wins. So you go from Matt Brown to this savage? I don't like it at all. In fact, I completely disagree with you. I think you throw him to the wolves. A.K. Or if you don't throw him to the wolves, maybe I'll meet you halfway. You can at least give him a name, like a very big name that everybody knows. Like, at worst, at worst, I want a top 15 guy for him. I preferably want a top 10 guy for him. He called him Damia Maya. I love that idea. I think that's perfect. I would not hesitate with that whatsoever. I don't think that's the direction they're going to go. Damia is on the farewell tour. So I think he's going to want like nostalgic matchups with with names like,

the Diego Sanchez is maybe the Wonder Boy Thompson's of the world. So I don't think that fight intrigues him very much. But I think that's what they're going to try to put together. Like I think if they gave him like a Hafiel Dosangos or somebody like that, I could not be more in if they did that. Like when you have a talent like this, you just got to throw him out there and see what happens. Like that's what he wants. Like he's clamoring for it. Like Zabit Magamacharapov. Like when he came out, it was always, you know, I think I'll be the champion. be in someday, whatever the UFC wants to give me, you know, I'm down with that. Sean O'Malley was the same way. He went to a decision. He went to two decisions in his first two UFC fights, if memory serves it

correctly. Same thing. Whatever the UFC wants me to do, that's what we're going to do. And yes, you built those guys up to where they are today. This guy has come out and said, MMA is easy. I would kill Donald Zerodi. I will be the best pound for pound fighter in the world in like a year. Give it to him. Two wins, 10 days, two finishes, two bonus. talking that noise, give him Donald Seroni. I am fine with that. It meets right down the middle, okay? This is not a top 15 guy.

It's not a top 10 guy, but it's a guy with a name. And let's be honest, A.K., if we're thinking about the total rankings overall at 170 pounds, Biazza and Soroni, they're probably not that far apart. So if he loses to Donald Seroni, it's not the end of the world. You're not like blocking his path. He's an eight-no guy who's shooting for the stars. You can't complain about that whatsoever. He's in a win-win spot if he beats Saroni, boom.

If he loses Saroni, you know, good try, man. At least he tried. That's the position he's put himself in. Mike, you're a father. And you should know that children can be rambunctious. And we have to protect these children from themselves, okay? I loved, I loved the chatter from young 26-year-old Tremayev. he's saying all the right things

very massively entertaining personality and actually a fun wrestling style sometimes wrestlers get criticized for being boring he is not he is not a boring wrestler by any means he's really really really fun to watch but again these are things he says because he doesn't

know better he said MMA is too easy it's a cool sound bite but that does not mean that he should be thrown to the wolves like this I want to protect Shemaya unlike the rest of you I care about this young And I don't need to see him thrown in there with a Donald Seroni or Raphael Dosanos or Damien Maya.

Again, matchups, which I think he would win. I would certainly pick him to beat Seroni. But if he doesn't, I do think it is more hurtful than you think. I think, you know, Alexander Hernandez, I think lost a lot of hype when he ran to Seroni and lost that fight. This is different, though. This is different. It's different. It's different.

It's very different. It's very different. But I'm just saying the losses, these have made fans to be fickle and these losses matter. I have no My Baezza name was probably a little too lukewarm You know and and like you said A prospect versus prospect thing is not always not always the best thing for anyone But I feel like there has to be a middle ground between another prospect and a top of Dean or

Or 20 you know 20 fight veteran So I don't know exactly who it is I'm sticking with my guns with Baezza I think Jose was a Jose that mentioned Anthony Pettis Yeah Or Casey So there's names there's names but it's it just shows you how insane his 10 day run was that has opened up literally any possibility. And if it got booked,

like if tomorrow he got booked against Don Serroney, I wouldn't be surprised. If you got booked against Damien Maya, I wouldn't be surprised. If you got booked against, again, Baeza or another prospect, I wouldn't be surprised. That is called a fighter capturing your imagination

when he can be booked almost against literally anyone and his division. And you're just like, yeah, okay, this is a logical next move for him. So very exciting. Now, that's why he's the Fight Island MVP because we spent more time talking about

what's next for Hamaya than anybody else on Fight Island. England, anybody, champions, challengers, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter who he fights. I'm watching, but I think he's going to get a pretty good name. Someone we recognize, or at least in the top 15, because I think Dana White is all in on this guy. So as we move ahead to another exciting prospect, Mavzar Evlouev looked fantastic in his

decision win over Mike Grundy, which is no easy task whatsoever, aka, you know, I'm going to start with this one. I liked the Arnold Allen callout a lot. I think it's perfect in my opinion. But again, we're kind of in this position. Do we want to match these prospects up now? Or do we wait till their top five knocking on the door of a title shot? So while I like the callout, I disagree.

I'm going a different direction. Let's give him a veteran with a name. I like a fight with the gritty Darren Elkins, someone who's going to bring the dog out of him a little bit. Test him in some different ways. It's a winnable fight for Eveluev, but you match him up with the guy who's just going to bring it, who is in every single fight.

I thought he beat Nate Landware, if we're being honest. I'm good with that. What do you think? My only issue with Elkins is he not on a, he's on a four-fight losing streak. And again, like you said, competitive fight. It's not like he's getting blown out. And also when you're a veteran,

as we went to Soroni before, once you reach a certain level of veteran status and you've had like 15 fights in the UFC, it almost doesn't quite matter what a losing streak you're on. You still have that name. And like you said, you're just recognized as a reasonable opponent for a lower, a lower tier guy, a lesser known guy. So for a guy like Elkins, it's true. His name value is certainly much higher than a guy like Evoev.

So that way makes sense. But I don't like that he's on a losing streak. I think Evelweb, who's now 3 and O in the UFC and 13 and O's a pro. I think he needs to get someone else who's on the winning track. So I like the Arnold Allen call out, except that Alan, if I'm Arnold Allen, I have zero interest in taking that fight. I don't know why you would do it. It's just a super dangerous fight. You've got your own winning streak.

You should only be looking at 15 or higher if you're Arnold Allen. So it makes no sense for him, though it would be a good matchup. But no, the other name all threw out there, which we've mentioned before, Macwan Americani, Mr. Finland. Now, I think we said we saw matches with him in Charles Ordain and Ryan Hall, and those would be great and certainly still options. But now that I've seen Eveluev really, really prove himself, 3 and O in the UFC is kind of for me a good. You know, if you do 3-0 and then you step up if you're a prospect. So he beat, yeah, Mike Grundy, Enrique Barzola, and Sung Wuchoy, solid names around for a guy starting their UFC career. So, Mr. Fieldland, Macawande, I think that would be a good match for him.

Yeah. I mean, Elkins is in such a weird spot because, like, look at the losses, Volkadovsky, which she's the champion right now. Ricardo Lamas, that was a bad one. Ryan Hall, like, we saw like Super Ryan Hall on that fight. This wasn't like the dangerous grapple you submit you in the first round, Ryan Hall. This is, I'm going to throw spinning stuff at every point and drop you. Like, he, Darren, Darren, Eran, Eran Atkins has the damage tattooed on his body. And unfortunately, Ryan Hall walked in and started spin kicking him and dropping him.

Like that's, I mean, that's a different cat. And then the eight land wear fight, another up-and-comer. I thought he won that fight, as did most people. And I believe Dana White thought he won that fight as well. So, I mean, it is what it is. He's in this position where if we booked that fight, people will be like, ooh, this is a good one. I just think he needs somebody. If we're talking about level and how we rise up to the top 15 and get those fights with the Arnold Allen's and the Burgoses and those guys, you got to put him in a test like that with a guy like at Darren Elkins.

That's going to push him to a different level. But it's time for our wild card pick. One fighter from each card, we pick a wild card that we have. haven't discussed yet. So from UFC on ESPN 14 this past Saturday night, AK, what is your wild card matchmaking selection? Well, as you know, two of my fellow Canadians put on spectacular performances, Tanner, Bozer, and Jesse Ronson. Now, Bozer, I think, does not need help with matchmaking. He is zeroed in on a matchup with the crochet boss, Maurice Green, so I think that's a fine matchup. So Tanner, you've handled that well on your own. Now, Jesse Ronson is a bit more

of a difficult case because he's returning to the UFC. This is his, technically, it's his second stint, particularly his third try at the UFC for anyone who remembers. He was with the company from like 2013, 2014, and lost some really tough fights like Kevin Lee, Michelle Pazeras, and I think Trinoldo, I think was the other one. So three incredibly tough opponents and then went back to the regional scene and then almost got another shot a couple of years ago, but he failed to make wait on short notice for this fight, a lightweight fight, and then was not given another chance, which I thought

was incredibly unfair. this is really his third actual shot of the O.C. And he finally got to win. He beat Nicholas Dolby, a very tough fight. I did not pick him. I picked Dalvi to win, and I owe Jesse the body snatcher and Ronson an apology.

So I will give him some shine here and mention a very, very fun and a win-will-a-matchez him. Someone who I think needs a little bit of image rehabilitation because his last fight was not as insane to people thought. The king of Kung Fu,

Muslim Salakov. Jesse Ronson, Muslim Salakov. be a strong kickboxing battle ronson's got a little more outside of his box his toolbox and that he's got some gropping too obviously but i think he'd want to keep it standing and show that off so jesse ronson that one's for you buddy cana kung fu show him what's up i actually liked ronson's callouts with uh jalen turner uh but the lees the lees pain you call out i really liked he wants to beat up the tall guys i like he's a eat something he said why are you guys why are you guys down at 155 what an interesting approach

I can't believe Louis Pader tried to get to 45, which is absolutely mind-blowing to me. But, okay, I'm going to throw this idea out there. And I know, we just talked about it with Darren Elkins. And I know people have this thing where, you know, you can't understand why anyone would want to book a fight between a guy coming off a win against a guy coming off a loss. Like, if we did, if we put that rule in the place, it would be anarchy. And we'd never get fights. Like, we'd have like six fight cards at this point. So here's what we're going to do.

We're going to give some love to the first victor of the night, the curtain jerker, so to speak. We give some love to Nathaniel, the prospect Wood, who got a nice win over John Castaneda. Now, as we've discussed on multiple occasions on this platform, is John Cassoneda a very tough out? Absolutely. Nathaniel looked great in that fight. He did what he was supposed to do. But is that win over John Cassinata, a guy taking a fight on two weeks notice, Is that going to put Nathaniel Wood in the top 15?

Probably not. So, I'm going to be super selfish here, A.K., and I'm going to book my wildcard fight that I want to see, and that all of you listening to the sound of my voice, hashtag would watch, I want to see the prospect versus Montel Jackson. I would say these are both guys that are top 25, okay? And I know what you're thinking. Well, Mike, you could do prospect versus prospect.

You just said you can't do that. This is Banimette. have like no choice at Bannaway. You literally have no options. All these guys are prospects. Or they're like champions or former champions. So you have to do that. Like Bannaway is just a different division than everybody else. Jackson is coming off the loss to Brett Johns, but he's going to take a lot away from that loss. Like he won that first round. He got exposed a little bit. He didn't pull the trigger. But you put him in there against a guy like Nathaniel Wood and Montel Jackson is going to have no choice but to pull the trigger. So if we're talking about exciting

wild card style matchups because I don't think Nathaniel Wood's really going anywhere that much higher after a win over Cassinated. It was a great performance. He looked great. But if he fought like Umar and Maga Mada Maddof, would the same thing have happened? I don't know. But he doesn't seem that interested in that fight.

So give me the prospect versus quick. I'm down for that one. And how about Wood showing off that striking, which he hadn't shown off much in the UFC. I mean, he had good striking before for sure, but he really got to show it against Cassinated because that was really solid stand-up battle. I think he, I believe the on-screen set was something like his significant strikes record

was like 60-something. And I think he landed over 100 significant strikes in that three-round fight on Saturday. So yeah, look, he's called the prospect. He still is a prospect. So I like, and Montel Jackson is certainly a prospect of the highest order, even coming off that loss. So, yeah, man, I got no problem with that. Like you said, that little middle part of like 135, it's really really.

exciting to see who's going to break out from there in the next couple of years, and it certainly could be either of these guys. Well, AK, we've done it. We've made some matchups. And if you agree, disagree, have your thoughts on what fights you'd like to see following UFC on ESPN14. Hit us up on Twitter. He is at Alexander K. Lee.

I am at Mike Keck underscore JR. AK, it's literally on to the next one for us. The UFC returns to Las Vegas this Saturday with another fun made event and 185 pounds. We're talking about Edmund, Shabazzian, and Derek Brunsson. See, this is how many cards there are. Yes, originally Holly Home versus Irene Al-Dana, of course, but that fight was off. And now we're getting, I, in my opinion, and I think some people would say this as well, a more intriguing main event and possibly more exciting on paper. The Aldana is a great striker, and, you know, Holly at home can be very tactical.

But Brunson and Shabazian, it almost feels like it has to end and a finish. You don't want to jinx it because when it's two guys with this kind of power, they're certainly going to be respectful of each other. but man, Chabazzan has shown nothing but promise and Brunson is known as a prospect killer. So it's really exciting and again, I'm already, I think we're both already kind of cooking in our mind what could be next for them after next week's card for next week's episode on to the next one.

That's right. And we, of course, will have our matches to make following that event. For Alex Kali, I am Mike Heck, thank you for listening. And just a reminder, we are not professionals. We are just a couple of fantasy matchmakers trying to make dreams come true

for fight fans around the world. So don't take it too seriously. Have fun with it, all right? Have a great week. For doom, for doom, acabono. Fordum acabono. Yeah, that's too much. And you said Mighty Moe, too.

We don't want, we don't want that. I think the combined age and that fight would be around 100. We don't want to see that. We'll see everybody next week right here on onto the next one, the podcast. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.