MMA Fighting - On To the Next One: Episode 5 | Matches To Make After UFC 252

Episode Date: August 17, 2020

In the fifth episode of On to the Next One, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck and Alexander K. Lee put on their matchmaker hats following Saturday night’s UFC 252 event at the UFC APEX in Las Vegas. Future fights were discussed for heavyweight champion Stipe Miocic following his unanimous decision win over Daniel Cormier in the main event, co-main eventers Marlon Vera and Sean O’Malley, Jairzinho Rozenstruik, Daniel Pineda, Merab Dvalishvili, Vinc Pichel, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to a brand new edition of On to the Next one, The Podcast, MNAMA Fighting's Matchmaking Extravaganza of a Show. I am Mike Heck, and for the first time in the brief history of this program, we're going to play Fantasy Matchmaker following a paper view event, excuse me, easy for me to say. UFC 252 took place on Saturday night in Las Vegas, and the feeling coming out of said event,

is it was met with mixed emotions. A lot of people not very happy with how things played out on Saturday night, but regardless of how you felt about it, we still need to move on and match make some fights and joining me in this venture. And I'm happy he's here today because he is the Prince of Positivity after all. And I'm not going to lie as we sit down to record this week's program. I'm a little tired. I'm a tad bit grumpy, but Alex K. Lee is sure to pull me out of this little funk of mine,

aren't you, Alex? How are you, sir? No, no, Mike, that's not good. One, of course, I hate to hear my compatriot is ever in a down food. And secondly, I don't know how much positivity I can bring this week. I thought Saturday's show was fine, but weirdly lacking in drama. I think our own Jose Young's mentioned yesterday that, like, the lack of a crowd was really felt, especially in the main event, but now they look back on it, probably throughout the night.

There's probably a lot of moments that I feel like would have been enhanced by just the liveliness of having people in the building. And I think I felt a little bit, I think I felt a little bit of that at home. I think, I don't think we felt it at all in, uh, for 251 because there was that mystique of, of Fight Island, I guess, if that's fair to see. You know, there was still something different about it. Yes, there was no crowd, but, and it would have been enhanced by a crowd probably, but there was something novel. Now I feel like it's starting to wear on us a little bit.

There's no, there's no crowd thing. Especially with contender series back on Tuesdays. Now you're just getting this double dose to the apex every week now. Um, so it's very strange. So, uh, not only what I, I think the event was a little kind of like lacking in intrigue. But again, you know, I've planned, I've done a little research for our matchmaking today. And I don't know.

I felt a little restricted by my options, but we'll get to that. I think it was one of those things where our expectations were a little too high heading into this. Because we had the co-main event being what it was and everyone was really excited for it. And then we had this this main event, this trilogy, this fight to determine the greatest heavy of all time or in the UFC of all time and it was Daniel Cormier's final fight and we just expected like a respectful battle between

two Titans and it seems like the co-main event and the main event both were controversial in some ways. The co-main event not so much digging a little bit deeper into it but the main event seeing DC's eye and kind of finding out the severity of the injury just kind of puts a

damper on it but I completely agree with you I think for the first time in this empty arena era this is the time I really noticed, especially for a fight like that, D.C.'s final hurrah. You just wanted to see him make that sprint to the octagon in front of a full crowd, and we didn't get to see that. So I understand some people's trepidations when it comes to that, but it was still a pretty good event, some good performances, but let's see where the future lies, because as you all know by now listening to this, unless you've been living under a rock and this show is perhaps catching you

up on all the things missed from this past Saturday. Steep A. Mietchich, is the winner of the heavyweight trilogy between he and Daniel Cormier. He earned a unanimous decision win to retain the heavyweight title in the main event. And you know, A.K., last week, I ended this show without a lot of great salesmanship, saying, hey, make sure you tune in, but we might not have much to matchmake here off the top of this card. But I have to say, AK, we talked about this before we hit record. As the main event progressed, things in my mind changed a little bit because another current world champion had a lot to say during those 25 minutes of action and beyond. Oh, geez. And before I let

you say your piece here, it would be absolutely tragic if Francis Ngano does not get the next heavyweight title shot. He is the definition of deserves the next shot than probably almost anybody in any division in the UFC right now. But there is another option at play. And whether we like it or not, AK, we have to take this one very seriously in John John. No, we don't. No, we do. I'm going to explain why in a minute. So now that it is at least somewhat a little more interesting here, what is next for Steepa after walking out of the UFC apex and still? Is this Angano and only Ingano for you? It's not John Jones. Come on. How many times we can do this dance with John Jones? Now, objectively speaking, the stage is certainly set, maybe more so than it's ever

been for Jones to move up and get that immediate teleth shot because Korme is out of the way. And Ganu and Mitychich have already fought fine. I know I know people definitely want to see that rematch. So, I mean, their first fight was at least two years ago now. I mean, it feels like two years ago. It was maybe a lifetime ago in MMA years. So, yeah, we're approaching like two and a half years, maybe almost three years by the time, you know,

Miyichich probably takes another fight. So, but no, Ingana deserves his rematch. This is crazy. Of course, the John Jones fight is going to be, you know, quote unquote, bigger on paper. I'll have more mainstream cachet. It's a cool, like, sort of a dream fight type thing. And again, it's a fight that we haven't seen before.

It's a fresh matchup. So there's all these reasons. But Inganu has just been insane. He's won his first, his last four fights in a combined like four minutes, or less than that, I think. He deserves another shot. He cannot be leapfrogged by the constant heavyweight tease John Jones. No, it's Inganu. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not John Jones.

Like I said, I am in complete agreement with you. it should be Steep A versus Francis too. Meritocracy, all those things involved. This has to be the fight for the heavyweight championship of the world. What Francis and Ganu has done since losing to Stepe and then that just lackluster turd of a fight he had with Derek Lewis, and that's putting it very respectfully here, has been incredible. I mean, he has turned it around and he is a very frightening individual.

Once again, he has been his entire career, but now he's like, more frightening than ever. He's the guy. But John Jones moving up to heavyweight to fight for a title, honestly, AK, I really thought had DC won and retired as champion, there was a very good chance the UFC would have rolled the dice on Ngano versus Jones for the vacant title. It would have been less controversial than it would be now. That is for damn sure. But as I sit here right now and ponder this all over, I'm 50-50 on how this plays out. I can absolutely see the UFC giving John Jones this fight. It would be massive.

And I think Inganu would have every right to be furious. And if I was Dana White of the matchmakers, I would double padlock their doors before Francis comes running through because he's in Las Vegas. Here in MMA, as you know, there is a difference than what should happen and what will happen. Ingano should get the shot. But in the end, and I don't know why my gut is telling you. mean this? I think they're going to give it to John. I think they're going to do it. This is on to the next one. All right. This is a speculative show. But it's true.

Speculative both is in what we think could happen and what should happen. Surely. But as far as our authority goes, Francis Ngano is getting the next title shot. Okay. And look, I'm like every other fan. I will, I will nod my head and clap like a seal. Should they make the John Jones and Gano fighter and John Jones Miojich, whatever, whatever situation I want to make with John Joe, the heavyweight for a title. John Jones, Depe. Of course, of course, it's a cool fight. I'm not going to go on Twitter and say, like, oh, this is what Travis do you?

Like, no, it'd be unfair. It'll suck from Ghana. Who, by the way, has a very legitimate sort of complaints as far as, like, he hasn't been able to show how much he's improved. You never wants to know how it would have a fight with Mitychuk go differently this time around. Maybe it would. Maybe it wouldn't. We have no idea. Outside of the Lewis fight, he's been ending things so quickly just as he did on the way to his first tell a shot.

But the only way to find out is to match them up again. So that's just another reason to do Inganu. and Mnich. So we, we are in control here, Mike. We are in control. What, I mean,

I guess so. What I think will happen is Jones. What should happen is Inganu. But this is just been a year of, this is just a year of chaos, A.K. I'm just going with, you spoken into existence.

The formula of chaos that we've seen throughout the year. I just, I just have this feeling it's going to happen. 20. 20, everyone. But moving on,

let me ask you this. Is there a need to match, make Daniel Cormier here. He said he thinks he's done, although he didn't take off the gloves, he didn't slam the door in the post-fight interview. There wasn't the pageantry we expected, mostly due to the eye injury that he suffered in the fight,

which was just nasty and unfortunate. But that door, although it's teetering closed, it didn't seem to close all the way, and if it did close, it certainly didn't lock behind him. Right now, I think he's done, so I say the answer is no, but what do you say? Yeah, I mean, the answer

is clearly no right now. I did write a little column, for our site at MMAfighting.com that went up Sunday. People can go back and check that out. But no, and the door is certainly open. His retirement was missing all the signatures, like you said, laying down the gloves in the octagon. He didn't even say the word retirement. I think if anyone was watching, he did not say I retire after.

He said specifically, well, I don't see another title shot come my way. And since that's the case, I only want to fight for titles. That will be it for me. That was kind of his way of saying I retire, which isn't exactly what we were. think we were all hoping for when we think of the final appearance of one of the greatest combat sports athletes in history. So it just did not feel like an end outside of the fact that everything leading up to it said, you know, Cormier said, the storyline said, Dana White said, everyone said, this is it for him.

So, gosh, I kind of like with you and Jones, I got this weird feeling he fights again. I'm not going to matchmake for him because I don't think a title shot makes a lot of sense other than the third Jones fight. I don't think he's dropping down to light heavyweight again. So unless he decides He wants to like be the Just be like I don't know Just fighting Ghanu for the fun of it

Which sounds like something you know completely insane I don't know who he would fight So I'm not gonna match make But do I think this is definitely the end of Daniel Cormier's competitive days I do not Here's another reason You kind of just alluded to

Another reason why I think they do Steep A versus Jones Because of the DC factor Because I don't Dana White you heard him at the post fight He does not believe Daniel Cormier for a second that he's done. So if you put Jones in there and Jones somehow beat Steep A. Meitchitch, guess who's coming back for one more?

Yeah, you got to do it. So you got to do it. God, what am I doing here? What am I doing here? What are any of us doing here? I'm laying down carrots all up and down the road for this fight to be a thing. We are matching up one fighter and we already have an existential crisis. This is not a good sign, Mike.

We haven't even mentioned, we haven't even gotten to the Hamza-Shamev portion of the program yet. We're going to be here for an hour and a half. But a co-main event was a fight everyone was looking forward to. This one was circled on my fight card for sure. We saw Marlon Vera finish Sean O'Malley in the first round via TKO. There was obviously a nasty foot injury that Sean O'Malley suffered. And I got hammered on this on the post-fight show because I think people misinterpreted what I said, which is very common in the sport and very common on our YouTube page. No. What's never. I have, and for those who follow me on Twitter, I have been in the camp of giving Marlon Vera

all the credit in the world from the jump. Like, go to my Twitter, go back to Saturday night. I said it immediately. You cannot take anything away from Marlon Vera. He deserves the shine here. Yes, the injury was bad. Yes, the injury played a factor. But at the time, without going back

and actually rewatching the fight, which I said on the post-fight show, I didn't know where the injury actually stem from. And what I said was, like, I'm saying this is controversial potentially now because we don't know. But now that we've, like, seen the video footage and I've gone back and watched the fight, it looks like we truly can't take anything away from Vera. This is a legit win all the way because he's the one that got that ball rolling with the injury. It appears in the fight.

Like, the same thing with Primus versus Chandler. Like, that was an unfortunate ending to that fight. But Primus is the guy that got that ball rolling with those leg kicks. He's the one that mangled up Chandler's leg a little bit. And that's why the fight went down the way they did. So you can't take anything away from permits. Like, should they fight again? You know, maybe Sean O'Malley starches him in a minute and a half and who knows.

But either way, Marlon Vera wins and he deserves a ton of shine and deserves everything that comes from beating a guy like Sean O'Malley. In fact, in our M.A fighting team pickum contest, just to really put the stamp on this, I picked Marlon Vera to win that fight. Was it a bit strategic? Probably in a way, yes. but did I think he had a great chance to win on Saturday night? You're damn right I did.

So now that he has this big win on his resume against one of the sports rising stars, Alex, where do we go from here with Cheeto Vera? First of all, that's at Mike Heck underscore Jr. on Twitter. Sorry, at Mike, at Mike Heck underscore J.R. on Twitter. If you want to check the receipts and also if you want to just at him in general, just to write him in mean comments and comment on his Vera takes. but no, I believe you. I can, I can attest to the fact that you did pick Marlon Vera to win.

What do I think is next for Marlon Vera? You know, I didn't have a lot of great options because, for one thing, I still can't believe he wasn't ranked. He wasn't on the official rankings going into this, in the top of Dean. He was not. That's insane. How is that possible? I mean, I see the names ahead of him and I'm like, I guess it makes sense. He hasn't beaten some of these guys.

But the point is, it is time. for him to get that opportunity. Now, there aren't a lot of immediate options unless you really want to shoot him up the rankings, which I wouldn't be against. Like I said, I think he has a resume to face almost anyone in the top 10. But a lot of these guys are occupied. So I'm going to go with, I think, what's the, an obvious matchup, Jimmy Rivera. There's a history between the two.

Vera has had bad blood with Junior Rivera for a while. Three years ago, I believe Rivera, the story was that Rivera did not want to fight him. He did not think that Chito at the time was relevant enough or high enough in the rankings. Again, he was still not in the rankings. So there's a disrespect there. They were also booked a fight in February, I think, and Rivera got injured. So this fight was supposed to happen. So like I'm saying, it's kind of a boring answer because this isn't an out of left field, super creative thing.

But Jim Rivera has been in the top 10 for a while. Chito Vera wants a top 10 thing. They've got a history. Match them up. I have another weird option, but I want to know where you're going with this first, Mike. It's funny how when we do this show, we both think that it's like pretty big. boring and pretty obvious matchmaking, and then we have two totally different answers, which is great. Because I think this is pretty easy. Like, Vera does want a top 10 guy, and if you want to give him

a guy like Rivera, who's definitely an option or a guy like a Jafel Al-Sanso, I'm fine with both of those options. Like you said, Marlon Vera could fight anybody in the top 10 or in the top 15, and it's a competitive matchup. But I think really the easiest choice here, and it gives Marlon Vera a ranked guy, and it's a really intriguing matchup is the one with Marad de Wallis-Willi, who just had a pretty dominant win over John Dotson earlier in the night. That fight will likely go deep. And once it gets to sort of that halfway point, when Marlin really starts to get cooking, I just am fascinated to see how that thing would play out with a guy that, like, Marab,

who has just like super unloaded plus running through his veins. Like, I think that's the fight to make. But if they go a little bit higher ranked and they give him a Rivera fight, which, you know, like you said, the bad blood there, they try to rebook that at least once, if not twice. I'm cool with that. But I'm interested here with your other fascinating options. I have to admit, I do not like the Devalis really matchup for Chito. I think, again, it's a little bit, even though technically, yes, DeVosvili is ranked right now.

And Chito isn't. Sorry, I say going into Saturday's card. I feel like, again, you know, Cheetos's a little more veteran. And again, he's been calling for Top 10 for so long to give him a guy like just in the edge of the top 15, or I guess a little closer to top 10 now after beating Dodson. It just feels like a step back for Cheetah. Again, another one of those tough fights for him that if he wins, it just doesn't move him up that much. So I would like to see him get a definitive top 10 guy.

The other option is, and I didn't realize until now, how high this name was ranked. I still think it's ludicrous. But it's a big name, and I'm sure Cheetah would not say no to. Jose Aldo. Oh. I don't know. Now, would Aldo take that fight? I don't know.

I don't see his reasons for that. He's probably be super picky. But if he is entering any sort of veteran mode where he's kind of like saying, oh, I'm just willing to take fights to, you know, fight up my contract and put on an exciting fights and good style matchups because he does have a lot of fights left in his contracted things so I don't know how many big name fights they can line up for him I think I think Marlon Barry would be a really

good style matchup winnable fight for Aldo certainly I still think he's one of the all-time greats and still very very good you know just he's just lost a step and Cheeto there you go you get a top 10 guy who amazingly is ranked higher than Jimmy Bear I don't know why and again one of those names one of those names you can stamp on there and say I fought I shared the cage

with this guy I like that one I like all of them. I like every single potential matchup inside the top 15. All them are fun. Anything with Cheeto Vera is fun. Absolutely. But Cheeto and Mara would just be insane. Like those two, wow.

Like, I'm very excited because I don't, like John Dotson was very trigger shy. Like, he's normally not like the most move forward and try to knock your head off kind of guy. He's a guy you have to chase down. He has a counterstriking more than anything. But Mara was just in his face the whole time. And Cheeto's not going to back away and he's not going to be trigger shy whatsoever. So I think that's. fight's pretty fascinating. But as far as Sean O'Malley goes, it's kind of tough to throw a name

out there because the injury looked really bad. I mean, he got wheeled out on a stretcher. He was in serious, agonizing pain. And that was like another part of the empty arena aspect last night. You could just hear him breathing. You could hear him making those moans and those groans, and you just felt really bad for the guy. And we also don't know the extent of the injury as we record this. We don't know how long he's going to be out for. I'm going to make this kind of easy. AK-for-I-go-to-you. I think no matter what happens with Sean O'Malley and how long he's out for, unless somehow this guy that I'm about to choose, which I do not see happening, gets absolutely steam-rolled in his next few fights. When Sean O'Malley's ready to come back, you book O'Malley

versus Brian Kelleher immediately. That's my initial thought because there's, there's heat there. It's a good bounce-back fight for Sean. It's one that'll get Kelleher, very animated and very ready to go, but in this division with a guy like Sean O'Malley at 135, you can't go wrong, really, right? No, that was definitely one of my top picks. Him and Keller have had some social media exchanges as well. I know Keller has at least called him out. I'm not, can't remember if the Sugar Show responded.

I was just trying to look at O'Malley the last time he had that injury with the Andre Sukumtokov. And again, presumably a different injury. We don't know what happened on Saturday. And he was out for quite some time after. He was also dealing with all that you saw the drama, very well documented. So between the Sukumtoth's fight and the Jose Canonia's fight, there was two years. Again, that was with injury and Usada.

So we can only hope it won't be even a one year layoff to this. But yeah, we really, really don't know exactly what happened in the fight with Cheeto, unfortunately. So like you said, this is highly the landscape of Bantamake could be very different. Even if it's, even if it was only for like three or four months, you know, that this sport changed so quickly. So there's a few names. Keller had one of them. I had a boring option would be Dodson just because they fought in the same car and they both lost, you know, that's always a good way to go.

It's a veteran guy. It's a striker. I don't know if people want to see that match up. It could be faint city. If you love faints and you love lateral movement and you like strategy, strategic striking, then you're probably in for a treat. But if you're someone look to look for O'Malley to style on someone, John Dodson's probably not that guy. So then the other two options, Cody Stamen, another person who I think has called, Cody Stamond's called out a lot of people. I feel like Sean O'Malley was one of them.

Exciting fighter. they're probably in similar places in their in their careers like statement doesn't quite have the hype because his style isn't as whatever crowd friendly but um he's he's always a tough out and again a worthy opponent and then just this is such randomly i don't even know this guy will still be with a company uh whenever shot on mali comes back but i like him he's almost like a br-he's almost like a marlin vera light uh louis smolka oh okay he reminds me a little bit of of vera as far as he's just he's just a finishing machine uh either way his fights he also gets finished but he finished he knockouts submissions whatever you want. He's probably not quite in the level of Vera. So it would almost be like running back to Vera fight, but, you know, the similarly styled opponent,

but someone who, again, O'Malley would have a good chance of beating. It would be very bad for the UFC's fortunes, I think, based on how much they're invested in O'Malley, if he lost Louis Smoka, but again,

these are the risks you have to take anyways. So that's my kind of out of left field whenever O'Malley comes back. If Smokka's still around, maybe you throw him in with another veteran. Yeah, I like that idea. Plus,

there's a little bit of a storyline there because Smoka is a team Oiamma guy, and we can do the, you know, the M.A. Lab versus Tim O'Yama thing all over again. There were some bad blood and some things said by O'Malley's coaching staff that rubbed those guys the wrong way a little bit, and rightfully so. So I'd like that matchup. I mean, again, with O'Malley and the way this division is structured right now,

I mean, just look, anyone in the top 30, they're all exciting matchups. So I'm down for any of those fights. Another big winner in the heavyweight division on Saturday was Jarzanio Rosenstrike, finishes junior Los Santos in the second round, big bounceback win for big, boy and with the heavyweight division being in this weird place right now at the top at least it seems with john jones sort of sprinkled in there i have to say alex this is one of the toughest ones for me to match make in my opinion because you almost have to wait and see how the ufc moves forward with steep a versus the next challenger before you can even make that decision and who knows

when that's going to happen so what do you think happens here with jarzino after another impressive finish. This is what I was talking about the top of the show where I felt like restricted by some of these matchups because I was just looking at the top 10 rankings. And like you say, it was guys who are matched up and need to get sorted, you know, and need to have their results sorted out. Or guys that Jarzino's already fought. I mean, Jarzino, he's had a pretty fast rise up the heavyweight ranks, which isn't surprising given how talented he is and how thin the UFC heavyweight rankings are. So the only logical option for me, and it's not really fair to his opponent, because his opponent's almost like an Anganu-esque position because he's won

so much. You just want to see him get a title shot at some point, Curtis Blades. I think I think that's probably, I don't think I'm breaking any news here. I think this is probably the first option that popped up in a lot of people's minds. Biggie Boy said he wants to fight again, of course, but that's way farther down the road. I think of those two ever fight again, probably for a world title, if Inganu Wednesday or if Rosester comes to win it, as he suggested. So, yeah, I'm going to give, again, another boring answer here. I don't have any room to breathe this week. My creative juices are stifled. So I'm going to go Blades.

The other thing I would have said was Derek Lewis, but I think we've kind of locked him in. At least I have mentally with Overeem at some point in the future. So I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, overlap the matchmaking we've done in a previous episode. So Curtis Blades. Yeah. And it's funny how these things come full circle because, like I said, at the top of the show, if we're going with what I think happens and the UFC goes to John Jones for the heavyweight title, then I think they will go back to Franzigano versus Derek Lewis.

I think they'll go back to that well. I think both of those guys are in better graces with the UFC than the other excellent contenders you mentioned. So if John Jones does get that shot, then I think they will do Jarzino versus Curtis Blades because that's what's there, right? But if they go with the other option, the meritocracy option, the way they should do it and go with Engano versus Steppe, there's two options here. One, you could do the winner of Alexander Volkov versus Walt Harris coming up in October.

or kind of going back full circle to UFC 249 when we wrote the column, we get all sorts of weird and do Biggie Boy versus Alexiolinick. But again, very interesting spot to be in if you're Jarzina Rosenstrike and not interesting really necessarily in a good way. Yeah, no, I'd agree with that because I feel so bad. You mentioned Illenic. Normally any mention of Olinic matching up anyone fills me with glee, But I do feel like that'd be a big and dangerous step back for Jarzino.

And again, I only want to see him move forward, which unfortunately only gives him one realistic option. And that's Curtis, or again, or again, Derek Lewis, if that matchup with Overeign never happens. But Blades just seems like the best option for both guys to once again keep them our favorite term, every fan's favorite term, like in the mix for a heavyweight title shot. Now we're going to get really in. Now we get to have a little more fun. We can be a little more creative with these.

How about Daniel the Pitt Paneda? I mean, what a story he was on Saturday night. He returns to the UFC six years after his first stint came to an end. He bounces around to like all different organizations. I believe he went like 9-2 and 2 during his time between UFC Stint 1 and UFC Stint 2. Legacy FC, Bellator, LFA, the PFL where he doesn't have like an official winner loss on his record because everybody he fought tested positive for some sort of substance. Or he was the one that tested positive or something?

Yeah, it was him. Yes, he tested positive, yeah. Weird, just weird stuff with Daniel Panetta. But he comes back as a big underdog, dominates Herbert Burns, gets a finish, gets a $50,000 bonus, and 20% of Herbert Burns's purse because Herbert missed weight. Outstanding performance, I think his stock rose immensely, probably more than anybody else in the card, if we're being honest. What's next for Daniel Panetta? First day, I want to say, Herbert Burns told our own Giermei Cruz that, I think he told Gereme that he thought Pineda was more dangerous than Alexander Volcanowski.

I guess he was right. I guess, I guess young Herbert knows what he's talking about because Pineda, that's a guy we did not expect to see back in the UFC anytime soon. That's for damn sure. He's a veteran, and he just beat a guy who I had in my top, I think, 25 featherweights. or around that range. So it's weird. You can kind of place them with other veterans

or you can kind of try and move up the rankings. I don't know how invested they are in him. Again, I assumed he was brought in as a name of a sort of guy with experience that would further boost Bernda's resume. That's not how it turned out. So I'm going to be very generous with here. And rather than keep Pined in the middle of the pack,

I want to see him jump up. And I swear I stole this idea from someone, but maybe I just saw it in a dream. I want to see him take on Andre Feeley. Ooh. Yeah, really jumping up. Although I hope Andre Feely is already booked. At least I hope he's booked to fight Bryce Mitchell already.

We haven't gotten an official announcement yet, but I've been saying this for since we started this column, every time Feli or Mitchell fights that these two guys have to fight. Like, it has to happen. That's like the one pick that I'm like most confident about from onto the next one to actually come true. Because none of my other ones have come true, I think, at all. I think a couple of half. We'll have to go back and take a talent.

I think maybe the end of the super obvious ones. But the cool thing about Paneda is there's a lot of options here. I think you gave Burns a little bit too much credit. Like I'm not saying he's not a talented guy. I think top 25 is a little steep. And I kind of thought this heading into the fight. I picked Burns because I just thought Panetta on short notice, UFC return, everything that's happened over the years. I thought some of that stuff would kind of stifle his return a little bit,

but he proved me wrong, he looked fantastic, and he's a legit guy to keep an eye on. I didn't think Herbert Burns is like a top 25 guy. I just didn't think he had the quality of victories and the experience to sort of merit that number, especially in a division as loaded as this one. Not saying that he couldn't get there, but I thought maybe if he beat Paneda,

he was probably knocking on that door. But Featherway is just so good. So as I'm watching this fight and watching this finish, immediately my initial thought was Panetta versus Gras, Grant Dawson because that's a step up, another hot prospect that is rising up the division. But then I saw the post-fight interview and I saw that cut on his eye and it is nasty, ferocious, deep and gross.

Like if that fight had gone to the end of the round, I don't know if the doctor will let him get back out there. But I mean, that's just all speculation of who the hell knows. But despite being so dominant, he got beat up a little bit. Every time Herbert Burns put a hand on him, he got busted up a little bit. And then I got to thinking a little bit more because Dawson also said that he wants to take short notice fights and he wants to do so at 155. So who knows if Grant even goes back to 45 after things get back to normal. He says he needs like 10, 12 weeks to make that cut and make the weight.

So to me, that's out. So as I gazed upon this featherweight roster this morning, there was one name that stuck out to me that got me very excited. You've really built us up. You've really built this up. AK, I think you're going to appreciate this pick. Let's go north to the great country of Canada. Daniel Paneda versus Gavin Tucker. Because the timelines for these two guys,

I think are going to match up almost perfectly. Both guys coming off of big finishes. Gavin Tucker says he wants to be more active, but he's not like a guy that's going to fight every couple of months. I think Panetta is going to need a little time to heal up himself. This is a banger at 145. I think Tucker's probably like a top 28, maybe like

low 30s kind of a fighter he's just not that active which kind of keeps him down a little bit but I think talent-wise he's right up there with like the Dawson's of the world and some of those guys I think this is the fight to make at 145 I feel pretty good about that pick Mike you had my curiosity

and now you have my attention that is that is a good fact that is I again I really have nothing to say about that that is a very good pick uh you know gabbin fought recently and looked great and i i don't remember if we matched him up uh i think we didn't i think we actually did him at the service i think we may we may have skipped over him i can't remember um so yeah it fits right into i think what we've what we've done so far and yeah i like it i think again pinata up and down

the board there's all kinds of good matches for him at 145 but i like i like Tucker i like feely um and then i saw some other i have some other names that aren't even worth mentioning so yeah that's that's pretty good. I'm going to make this one pretty easy because I'm actually really interested to see what you have to say about this because I think Mab Dwalishvili versus Mialan Vara is the fight to make it already said that. Also kind of circle back to the last time we discussed Marab. And if they booked him against Rhafiola Sunsao, I'm fine with that. But I already essentially made my pick earlier in the show with matching up the happiest fighter that has ever been punched in the face or delivered punches in the face and Marab the Machine DeWallish Rilly fighting

Marlade Vera. The guy's an absolute handful and I would love to see how that plays out. What do you think is next for Marab the Machine, AK? Well, first I'll ask you, did you enjoy him onto the next winning it after his fight and going, oh, I hope O'Malley wins tonight. And if O'Malley wins, then we'll see essentially calling him out. Would you have been, is that the matchup you would have made if they had both won? No, just because I just, I did, it's such a tough fight for anybody right now. Like, it's such a tough fight for anybody. And if you're trying to build O'Malley, like, the UFC, like, push all their ships in the middle of the table with Toronto O'Malley.

this, I mean, they had Stephen A. Smith compare him to like every up and coming sports star on planet Earth. It was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. And the amount of pressure that he must have been under, I can't even imagine. I'm sure he loved it as well. But I would have thought that was a horrific matchup. But I'm not surprised at Marab did that. Mara was in Conflorchon O'Malley for like a year, maybe a little more at this point. So it pretty much went the way I expected. But Marab also said like throughout the week, like whoever wins that fight, that's how I want to fight. But I want to see who you think like I I'm matching up marat with anybody is just it's ooze and odds no doubt about it don't get me started in that ESPN promo right out by an idiot whose name I'm not even going to

mention uh you've you've said his name enough that's the limit of the amount of times we're going to mention his name on any of our shows um i i agree i don't think i would have liked the omali match if omali had won that's just too putting two prospects against each other for no reason which sometimes can be fun but in this case i think they're headed and very different different directions and there's no reason to pair them up. Marlon Barron, he won. I think, like I said, Barra should get a higher ranked opponent. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not on the same page as that.

So I got two options. One of them, a New England boy who unfortunately, I think is dealing with a knee injury. So I don't know what the latest is that you've heard of him, one Mr. Rob Font. Do you think he'll be able to fight by the end of the year? He's targeting like November. So it could work. Yeah. The timing could be there.

The time in the air. Devalch Fili, Ravant, I think, makes a lot of sense. That, I actually think, is both my could and should happen. I think it's an entertaining fight. I think Fond is getting really good veteran, really good test for Duvalch Fili. My other one's a little bit out of left field, and I feel like this guy's the forgotten man, because he supposedly did not win his last fight. But Song Yadong, I think, for some reason, people just don't, after that fight with Vera,

I know it was close, but people were far more interested in what was next for Vera than what was next for Yadong. But let's not forget, as for Song, I'd say, but it's not forget, Song won that fight. He won a unanimous decision. Did the judges get it right? I don't know. That's up for debate. I thought it was very close.

I thought it could have gone either way. I didn't have as much of a beef with the decision as some people. And I think he deserves a good opponent. Not a top 10 guy yet, but someone who's ranked. I think Song is 5.0 and 1. That's including, so 4.0 at phantom weight and plus the one win at featherweight against Cheeto. So I kind of want to see him fight to follow Ely. And then that would be the test.

You know what? For people who think Song didn't win that fight, okay, then you think. Domain there with a killer like DeVos-Frily, and then we'll see. If you think he deserves a little smack for being lucky, put him in there. I think that would be a really, really exciting fight. I scored the Yadong Vera fight for Vera, but I had more of an issue with the draw with Cody Stamen than I did with the loss of DeVara, if we're being honest. Sure, sure. But interesting.

I mean, one, there isn't a 35er in this division that's going to get a UFC bout open. sent to them via email and they open it up and they see Maraub de Walsh Willie's name on the other side of the contract. No one's going to be like, hooray, I get to fight this guy. Woohoo. Well, maybe Marlon. You ever. Maybe Marlon.

She does the only guy who's kind of like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, I'll fight. CTC, cut the check. I'm there. I don't know. Whatever. So going back to our MMA fighting pickum contest, maybe I'm just bragging because I actually got a win.

But I might be wrong, but I think I was the only one of us to pick Vince Bichel to defeat Jim Miller. And it hurt me to the, core to do that because I'm such a Jim Miller mark. But my line of thinking heading into that fight was, if Jim Miller doesn't put him away, which is very, very tough to do, Pichel is going to win the fight. Like, it's just, that's the kind of griminess that he, that he thrives on. I was correct. And Vince Pichel quietly continues to pick up wins in the UFC. His two losses are to Rostum Kabilov right after Tuff in 2016. And then the Gregor Gillespie loss, that guy was on an

absolute war tear until the Kevin Lee fight at Madison Square Garden last November. So Vince Machel is super under the radar in this division. So what could be awaiting the mustache wearing Vince from Hell Pichelle after that victory? Yeah, Vince has had so many things working against him as far as being viewed as like a marketable property for the for the UFC. Again, he's had he's a little up there in age. He's 37 now. he'll be 38 by the end of the year

so that doesn't scream for a guy who only has I guess nine fights in the UFC again it's it just feels like he should be more more experienced than he is but I mean he's he's been around for a while he's missed a lot of stretches with I think injuries or something like I think he's only fought three times

in three years so it's hard it's hard to get any traction with fans he spells his name without an E which is just disturbing there is I know the story behind it you know it's just whatever that's how he spelled as a kid he's like oh Vince because he thought the E would be like Vincey. So I think to help himself, he just removed the E. So he's just Vince.

And I'm like, okay, whatever, that's insane. But so be it. So a lot of working against them marketing-wise. But that was a great performance on Saturday. And as you mentioned, like, man, this guy is like so legit if you look at his record. Now, Jim Miller is by far the most experienced opponent that he's fought. Jim Miller is the most experienced opponent that anybody who has fought. My goodness, 36 trips to the Octagon.

So, but I kind of like Vince to stay in this range. I said, maybe it's unfair. Maybe because of his age, I'm not viewing him as a contender or as a prospect, though he certainly looked great at USC-252. So I kind of want to keep him in this fighting other veterans range. And the first thing that came to mind is someone who would, I think, move him slightly up the rankings. And I can't believe they haven't fought before.

Let me just double check. I can't believe they haven't fought before. Vince Pichel versus Francisco Trinaldo, Massaranduba. Ooh. That's a good one. in the pro wrestling world, aka... Oh, here we go. Now you're talking my language.

Sometimes when you take a win off of somebody, you take the spoils from them as well. No. You know where I'm going with this, I think. You love... No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh. Hold on.

Hold on. You know where I'm going with this already, but let me just get this going for the listeners because what Vince Pichel did on Saturday night was not only defeat Jim Miller, not only did he get his win bonus in a second straight wait, but he also got the fight in my opinion that I had set aside for Jim Miller.

At Vince Pichel's age, you got to throw him to these lions, okay? Whoever Vince fights, I don't care. I'm watching. It's going to be fun. But I want to see Vince Pichel versus Armand Sarukian. There is no need to explain further, AK, because this fight is bananas. And if we want to see if Serukian's got some dog at him, we're going to find out when he steps into the cage with the mustache wearing Vince Bichel. And by the way, Vince Bichel is called Casey Liden to walk him to the octagon

in his next fight. It's a swing and a miss in my opinion. But give me that fight, A.K., I see the pain in your eyes, though. I mean, it's not even for me. It's for this matchup that you've been hyping up for something. You love the Jim Miller, Armand-surukian matchup. Anyone who is listening, it's like you say, someone, go back to the archives, please,

I'm over. I'm nearly certain you said that this fight has to happen. You probably said that about a bunch. It's a UFC's fault. It's not my fault. Well, Jim Miller is beyond wins and losses. Nobody cares whether he won or lost. It's still a good... I'm fine.

Like, I thought about the Pichel-Serukian thing, too, but I specifically did not pick it because I said, Mike told me that Surukian has to fight Jim Miller. So I didn't even... I immediately dismissed it, and now you're just throwing that matchup in the trash, which you would convincingly built up, by the way. So I still think that fight can happen again. So I know you want to see Pachel-Sirucan,

but, you know, Jim Miller wins and losses don't matter. He's still... He's always going to be viewed as a high-level guy, especially for a young guy like Syrucian who has... who has one-tenth of the amount of UFC appearances as Jim Miller. So, yeah, yeah, Pichel Sirruki and Miller-Sir-Rukin, it's all good with me. Yeah, either works for me. It's Serokee versus either of those two guys, but I think Vince Pichol has earned that

fight at this point by getting the victory. So I'm just going to throw Serokee in with like this whole chain. So if I'll get somebody else and loses to this guy, then Serokee will fight that guy. But it's now time for, especially this week, my favorite portion of the program, where each of us are going to make a selection from one of the other fighters that we haven't even really discussed yet to make fights for.

It's the wild card round. We could be talking about a prelim winner, main card loser, a prelim fighter who wasn't able to get their hand raised. It could be anything, hence the word wild card. A.K., who is your UFC 252 wild card matchmaking selection? I mean, I feel like this fighter's performance

was so dominant that she shouldn't even necessarily be a wild card. Like, Verna, I'm going to butcher this last name, by the only because I was studying trying how to how to pronounce it. I've seen it pronounce like multiple ways, but I will go with how I heard the wonderful Joe Martinez, I think this is how he pronounced it. Verna Janjiroba, Werna Janjeroba, who just trucked Felice Herrick, a very tough opponent for Felice Herrick coming off a two-year layoff.

Janjeroba is just an absolute monster on the ground, and she got the take down right away and just dominate. It was a clinic in Jiu-Jitsu. Again, you know, you don't see that that often these days at the UFC level, but she was just sensational. She's a former Invicta champion, and many people are calling her a sleeper now at 115 pounds. I'm not even sure she's a sleeper.

Maybe we should have viewed her as a contender right away. So I think she needs, I'm ready to throw in there with a tough opponent. This is not a very fun fight for who I've picked, but I think she would take the fight anyway because she's a gamer. Tisha Torres. I think, I think Verna Janjaroa versus Tisha Torres makes a lot of sense. Yes, Torres has had, you know, she only won one of her last five fights. She just beat Rana Van Buren, but all of her losses are to up-and-comers or top top-10 contenders or future champions like Zhang Wei Li and Jaskan Drozch.

So, yeah, it's just a fight that makes sense. And I'd really like to see Tisha tested and John Jirobe as well because Tisha, I don't think I've ever seen her really dominated in the grappling department. So we'd have to see either if John Jorobo could do that or shows off another dimension of her of her game to beat her on the feet. So definitely a worthy thing. And who knows, maybe Torres gets to win and keeps herself kind of back up in the rankings because she's always going to be up there. She's just such a tough out. I'll have you know that for the first time in the history of the show, I'm disappointed that I let you go first because I picked the exact same fight. Yeah, I felt you might.

The exact same fight. I felt you. I tell you, this card, I did not feel like, except for a couple of names you mentioned, that there was a lot of intriguing options. I mean, I think we've made good picks. Don't you wrong. I think we've worked our magic as usual and made some extra. excellent picks, Mike. But as I was doing research, I was kind of like, man, I don't, I don't know.

There's just, there's just, I didn't feel, I felt like, again, I felt stifled. I felt a little stifled creatively. And I think we, like I said, I didn't know, honestly, I don't know who were you going to pick outside of, of, uh, Janjuroba. That, I mean, there's, there's nobody else to pick. I mean, Susa. Like, if you want to run Kai Kamaza versus Tony Kelly again, that's another wildcar pick. I was, I'll watch that fight every week. It was that good.

So, all right, I'm going to, I'm going to think outside of the box here. I'm going to go with the other half of that fight. I'm going to go with Felice Herring because, yes, she's lost three in a row at this point. She had a long layoff. She's overcome a lot. And I feel like, I mean, she got in there with a killer. And I knew as soon as Brad Acomoto reported that fight, I was like, oh, this is not what I want to see for Felice Herrig's return to action after nearly two years. So I want to see more from police Herrig.

Like I know when you lose three in a row, it's like, uh-oh, especially in a division. like this where all the fights are fun and it's so loaded, I understand why the UFC might be like, eh, you know, it's a pandemic, we got to cut bait. I just don't know if Felice Herrig's the one to do that with. So let's give her another shot. Let's do Felice Herrig versus Breonna Bamburen. How about that? Let's do that. Both of them, it's basically your matchup, but just pitting the two losers of their last respective fights. Let's see what Brianna's got bouncing back. It's probably more favorable matchup stylistically for her than Tisha was. And then for Felice, we'd give her one last shot against a prospect that people are pretty high on,

even though she's coming off a loss. So that's going to be my wildcar pick. I'll end with a bang. If only, and I, I'm sorry. Someone else mentioned this on Twitter. I don't know if it was done from our site, but it was definitely thrown out there. Felice Herrick, what she should do is really ask for her release so that she can go to greener pastures and the bare knuckle fighting championship.

and get that rematch with a newly signed Paige Van Zanz. Shout out to whoever mentioned this on Twitter. It might be multiple people I mentioned on social media. But maybe it is time for Herrick. A pioneer of women's MMA, by the way, and a highly respected veteran and still a fighter with many, I think, plenty of good years left in her should she choose to continue fighting. Get that rematch. Her and page, there's some heat there.

They could talk it up. They're both names. And it's a frigging bare knuckle. It's so much fun. Interesting. I don't hate that idea either. I went outside the box. I went outside the UFC box, Mike.

Yeah, but Kamaza Kelly, too. That'll be my other wildcar pick because I just want to see that again. That should be the main, that should be the first fight on every pay-per-view for the rest of the time. They have a permanent residence. A permanent residence at the, you know, people do this in Las Vegas all the time, right? They have a permanent residence at the, it's a Vegas show. Three nights a week. Kamaka Kelly. What a pair.

I love it. I love it. But there you have it. Another edition of On to the next one, the podcast is in the books here on MAAfighting.com. Let us know your thoughts on matches to make coming out of UFC 252 on Twitter. He is at Alexander K. Lee. I am at Mike Keck underscore JR. Next week, we discussed the fallout of this Saturday night's event, which is headlined, hopefully, because this fight has just fallen apart so many different times. Pedro Munoz taken on the former UFC lightweight champion Frankie Edgion.

in his Bantamweight debut. So in looking at this card, A.K., if we thought we were creatively stifled this week, I don't think we're gonna be creatively stifled at all next week. No, no, no. This looks like a one. I'm just looking at the names now. I'm seeing dozens of other names flashing before my eyes.

It's like a puzzle. My eyes are closed and just names are flying around in my brain. It should be a lot of fun to make these fights after that card for sure. For Alex Kaley, I am Mike Kack. We are done. Just a reminder, do not take this too seriously. joining on the conversation. We're just a couple of fantasy matchmakers,

just like you, try to make dreams come true for anime fans everywhere or just for ourselves, because this is a selfish sport after all. We'll see you next week right here, on onto the next one, the podcast. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.