MMA Fighting - On To the Next One: Matches to Make After UFC Vegas 34

Episode Date: August 23, 2021

On the 56th episode of On To the Next One, MMA Fighting’s Alexander K. Lee and special guest host Steven Marrocco put on their matchmaker hats following Saturday’s UFC Vegas 34 event at the APEX.Future matchups were discussed for the Jared Cannonier following a competitive decision win over Kelvin Gastelum in the middleweight headliner, Mark O. Madsen, Parker Porter, Saidyokub Kakhramonov, Vinc Pichel, Alexandre Pantoja, and more. Follow Alexander K. Lee: @alexanderklee Follow Steven Marrocco: @MMAFightingSM Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That wasn't the usual onto the next one music, as our usual listeners will probably note. We've got a bit of a change this week. That week, well, first, first, Mike Huck is not available right now. I will get into that later. But that music was by our special guest today, our special co-hosts, M.M.A. Fighting's own. Stephen Morocco. Thank you for joining us today, Stephen.

Absolutely. The B team is happy to be here. No, this is, it's all A-teens. Every configuration is an A-team. It's just a different kind of A-team. So, yes, as I said at the top of the show, Mike is having a well-deserved vacation. I think anyone who's been following and A-M-A fighting programming for the last couple of days has noticed. It's just been kind of me and Casey handling some of the preview stuff and Q&As and post-fight stuff. And I hope you guys have enjoyed that. Love working with Casey. But, again, Casey also needs a day off.

So I'm happy to bring in Stephen here. Again, I would say rewind, listen to that music at the top of the show. Get yourself in the mood, people, because we have surprisingly a lot to talk about regarding Saturday's UFC Vegas 34 card headline by Jared Kennear and Calvin Gaslam. Another one of these fight nights we've had recently flying under the radar, but fairly eventful. You guys certainly sent in a lot of suggestions. I thought it was a pretty fun card. Stephen, I don't know. What was your assessment? I was just about to say, do we?

You said, we have a lot to talk about it. And I thought, do we? Because, I mean, I really kind of expected you to say this is like that card that happened. You know, this is a card that happened. UFC, Vegas 34 meeting our broadcast obligations. It's not that it wasn't a good card. Maybe it was colored by my emotional memory of it, which is covering it from my mother-in-law's sewing room. it's not the usual setup I have, but when you're having transportation issues and you can't get home, it's what happens. So I was cramped. I was somewhat irritable. I wanted it to end just because I wanted to get home.

So maybe my emotional memory is coloring this. But if people have suggestions, if people want to talk about this and, you know, chop it up, I'm here for it. Are you hearing this? This man, rain or shine, home or away, his house or mother's, mother-in-law? Mother-in-law? Mother-in-laws, in-law's house. This man gets his work done. And I also, like, Stephen, I'm glad you said that. I just called you, Mike.

That's going to happen. Yeah. That's going to happen 30 times during the show. Stephen, I'm glad you said that, though, because some of our listeners were like heard Casey and I in the Post-Fight show and are kind of like, We weren't like brimming with enthusiasm. It was something like 1.30 in the morning, past 1.30 in the morning, Eastern time. We've been watching fights for seven, eight hours. And people are saying, we're working.

We're working when we're watching fights. Or we're in a, you see you're in a closet? Sowing, sewing room. I was in a sewing room. There was a baby crib behind me. There was, I had my laptop uncomfortably shoved onto the same table as the sewer. And so it wasn't fully on the table. and so I could never fully get comfortable.

It's what I'm saying. I was also surrounded by yarn. That is, he guys, he was surrounded by yard. This isn't people, I know what you think. Oh, it's a fun fight night. I was just kicking back with the boys and or my family and with a cold one and just having a good time reclining. That's not what the fight night experience is like for us. It's still enjoyable.

I mean, we love watching fights for a living. It's a great job. But it's, there's a little more, it's less ideal fun having circumstances. But we still have fun. I had a lot of fun on Saturday, Stephen. I thought it was, like I said, you may have said it best. It was a card that happened. But there are some good habits.

And we'll, you know what? We'll talk about it as we go through the fights. Stephen, do you have your matchmaker hat on? I do. I just put it on, actually. You just put it on. Okay, because everyone knows you're a fine journalist, great reporter, a great writer, a great man. But are you, but are you a great matchmaker?

No, I think that's what people are going to find out. Questions? I don't shut it down. my bag. This is your guy's back. I'm the B team. I'm the replacement squad. Stephen, I'm the replacements. Stephen, there are no wrong answers until I say that they are. But before that happens, everything is. No small actors only, no small parts, only small actors. That's correct. All right. Let's talk about the main event. Solid fight, a fight that happened, two middleweight contenders, two guys not close, not one fight away from title shot. Canaanier

certainly close than Gasolm. And maybe now one fight away, I don't know. We'll see. Well, that's kind of we're here to determine on this show. So he wins a solid unanimous decision, takes three out of two, three out of the five rounds. I think most people agree. I saw a few arguments for Gasselm, which I don't have a problem with. It was a close fight. But Stephen, I'm going to let you hit lead off here. Let's just get it going around the bat.

What do you think is next for the winner, Jared Kennanier? Well, I think whatever suggestion I was going to have is colored by his post-fight interview, which is, I'm talking. about his financial situation. I don't know if you guys, I'm sure you guys addressed this after you saw it, because obviously we're getting another fighter, you know, who's in a prominent position saying I'm broke, not the greatest look, brings up a bunch of questions. So, you know, ordinarily, I would say, and I still might say this, the winner of Till and Brunson. Like, that just seems pretty logical. That fight is happening next month. The time.

timeline kind of works out. But if he is broke and he needs money, then it's a question of what fight he takes that's exciting to him and also he feels as winnable because he's not going to want to sacrifice his position in the line. And it's pretty fraud at this point because he's at the point in his career where he is fighting top guys. He's probably, you know, even if he might, not have all the money left over he's he's probably getting paid more um and the the the gist of it is there are not many easy fights the the higher you get so i had an out of left field suggestion uh for a fight that i think would keep him busy and would be fun yes and that is zach cummins oh and why do i say that why would i say that i feel like explain yourself explain yourself even in putting

on my matchmaking hat. I don't know if you guys think of it this way, but it's like you think of it as like, well, here's the fight he should take. Here's the fight that he will take. Or here's a fight that, you know, that seems like a fight that could actually happen. Like there are fights that are logical that should happen like Till and winner of Till versus Brunson. That seems logical to me in a very competitive, from a competitive standpoint.

But that doesn't always apply here, you know, for a variety. different reasons. So I thought he would take that fight because that's an exciting matchup because he thinks it's winnable and because it will basically keep him keep the income, the revenue coming in. So I didn't, you know, there are more Zach Cummings out there in the middleweight division. This was the one that I pulled out of the scenario. But the gist of it was that the challenge for him is you're going to need to find a fight that he feels is winnable and will keep him busy. So that was one of the ideas that I have if we're going to keep him busy, not have him wait. Because look, Izzy versus Whitaker, you know, is not going to take place this year. It could be well into next year,

depending on what the situation is with COVID and everything. And then the winner of Till Brunson, who knows what shape that they're going to be in at the end of that. So there's a lot of variables here. There's a good reason for him to stay busy. And it's a matter of who he stays busy against. Yeah, there's about to be a lot of waiting at $184. It's great that we have these cool fights coming up. We've got Till Brunson, as you mentioned. Then the month after that, Costa and Marvin Vittori. And then the month after that, Sean Strickland and Luke Rockhold.

So we have some really cool fights coming up. It's just after those fights are done, I'd be very surprised if we see any of those guys fight again until 2022. Unless maybe someone jumps on the cannoneer contract for his next fight offer. So I did, I went a little unrealistic here. I think you're right. We're probably going to see him sooner rather than later if we take his post-fight speech at face value. It sounds like he needs to stay busy. It sounds like he's not in the business of waiting right now.

So I went sort of a magical matchmaker here where I'm hoping things work out for Canner. He has some money come in and he can wait and live comfortably until then. Because I want to see him fight the Strickland Rockhold winner. So that's UFC 28, November 6. But that is a long wait. Again, that is three months away still, a two and a half months. And then they have to wait. You know, they need to recover whoever wins that fight, unless they want to do a really

quick turnaround. So I'm essentially putting Canada on the shelf until, as I said, until 2022, which it doesn't sound like is ideal for him, does not sound like something he wants to do. But yes, that would be my choice if everything worked out perfectly, which, again, on this show, sometimes we just wave the magic wand, Stephen, and that's just a new beat. But, yes, you went with sort of the more practical and what's more likely to happen. and I agree, I do think we see him fight maybe a mid-teer, have to fight someone outside the top 10 just to stay busy

and to keep himself on the winning track, which might not be the worst thing. Yeah, I don't mind your idea. I mean, I think that's actually from a more logical standpoint and actually given everything that's in play with the schedule. It might end up working out just fine. Two months is, well, but three months, not that big of a deal, all things considered.

So I like that idea too. And I think you're going to find us a lot. I'm going to agree with you. I'm going to go, oh, that was my dumb idea. Oh, yeah, that's a better idea. No, no, no, no. Both ideas. Steve, we got to get all sides of it here.

You're playing the game perfectly so far. We've got to get all sides of it. Because, again, there's what will happen, sorry, what's likely to happen and what's, you know, in a perfect world if we were the matchmaker's and we could take care of everyone properly, what would happen. So my idea is a little less likely. But, yeah, I think there's a lot. I would hope there's a lot of people interested in seeing him fight strictly into Rockhold.

And you mentioned, like you said, the other thing about fighting someone outside the top 10 would also apply to the man who lost Calvin Gaston. Now we're not going to do a formal go-through for him. We like to stick with winners. He fought very well, but we like to just stick with winners for the sake of time. But I think also you would agree he should fight someone like a Zach Cummings next if he's assuming the UFC keeps him around. He needs to go outside the top 10, right? That would be the logical. Yeah. Move for him. I mean, yeah. If we're not talking about schedule all things being equal, he needs to take a step down in competition. He's fought the top of the top.

He is, and been so close, but now it's time to rebuild him, get him back on his feet. Give him a more competitive, well, not a competitive match. He's a very competitive guy. He doesn't be competitive with anybody. But I'm concerned about him, to be honest with it. I think he's taking a lot of shots and a lot of damage. I think he gets a winnable fight. And yes, I do think somebody from outside of the top 10 is a logical way to go.

Yeah, we know he can compete with the elite. He gave Israel, Edisania, his top. his championship fight. He lost a very close split to Darren Till. We know, again, we know how good he is. But yeah, at some point you need to win. Unfortunately, at the UFC level, that's just a fact. At some point you need to win, there's no moral victories.

So let's go to the co-main. This one was a little peculiar. I had a lot of people asking, why is this the co-main? With respect to Clay Gwita and Olympian, Marco Madsen, silver medalist for his country, it was a bit odd. It wasn't like this was an afternoon card where it would be airing in, he's from, he's Danish, right? Madsen?

Yes. Yes. He's from Denmark. It wasn't like at some weird time where it's like, oh, okay, this is like an early morning card. This would be airing on prime time in Denmark. I understand why, you know, they have Marco Madsen, the Colman. I think this card aired by the time he came out, I think it was like, I guess it was like seven in the morning. I guess people could have woken up early in Denmark for some sweet, sweet morning Madsen.

Morton Madsen, yeah. It's the radio show. I'm sure that was a radio show he was on. And listen, if the ratings come in, yeah, morning with Matt's, if the ratings come in, and like there's this huge number in Denmark and I'm wrong, then I apologize in advance. But I mean, I don't even know if we'll be able to get that data. Either way, a strange one, but he won. Split decision.

I guess very tricky Clay Guida. I mean, it's hard to dominate Cleukwita. I know people don't believe that for a guy who's kind of recurred as a journeyman. He's up there in age now. but he's just he's kind of the same guy he was like seven or eight years ago so he's really touched me did you did you think first step you thought that you think they made the right call right that madsen won that fight yes i think that especially the third round um i think that madsen captured it then but you know i don't i don't think that clay's the same guy that he was seven

or eight years ago i actually when i was watching this fight i was like clay is actually somebody that's evolved a lot since he first started. Oh, in a good way. So you're saying he's different in a good way. Yeah. I mean, I mean, he's had, again, he's been a guy that faces the top of the top. He's, he's always in, you've got to book him against someone. He's kind of like this utility headliner. Everybody knows him and everybody loves him. So he gets, you know, more of his, his pick as far as opponents and he's got a lot of, you know, options. But he has not, he's not the same guy as he was, you know, seven or eight years ago. He's actually evolved quite a bit. He used to be kind of a wall and

stall kind of guy and used to rely a lot more in his wrestling. That didn't mean he didn't brawl, obviously Diego Sanchez and whatnot, but he is actually, I was thinking about his progression from the guy who fought Nate Diaz and, you know, sort of late, late ox. And then the guy who fought Gray Maynard, who was moving like a striker, but not actually striking like a striker. Yes, it's different. And then I, and then I see the guy who was, you know, fighting. last night who was actually pulling the trigger a lot more and catching

Madsen on the inside coming in and not only that keeping him from his Greco setups. So I thought Clay did a great job. I don't know if I think he won. I think that he kind of lost it in the last little bit there. But I think that, you know, again, he's a very

competitive. I was surprised at how much how competitive he was. But maybe that just, speaks to Madsen's development. Like he's a guy who's obviously still a rough draft in many ways. He's obviously a champion wrestler, but he's still evolving as a mixed martial artist. And so the thing with Madsen is,

who do you match him up with? Because I was like, you're building to this beautifully, Stephen. Who is it? I was going to tee you up. I don't even need to. Yeah. The thing is that he's 36. He doesn't have a lot of time.

He's in a light, he's in a lightweight division, which is extremely deep. You know, he probably is at a slightly higher pace. Maybe higher pay scale, I would hope. So, you know, you've got to get him there quickly. So who do you get him there? You have to, I think you put him against a veteran, like a guy who's on a slump, you know, a guy who needs to rebuild, a guy who's got a good name. And then you, the ones that I came up.

with, well, there's a couple different tacts here. I thought McDezy give him a new look with more varied striking weapons. That was my note. I know Jeremy Stevens is on a big slump and probably wouldn't want that fight, but I think that that's a fight where he's needing to build his name. He's a name, and he'd be a good one to build off of. And Stevens probably thinks that he can beat Madsen because he's not as good of a striker. And then I also thought like on a more like less likely tip of Physio, Raphael Physio,

because sort of more of a parallel track argument where they're both on their way up. And that would be like more of a competitive matchup where you have two guys who are on their way up and are. writing each other to see who's going to be, who's going to break into the top 15. So those are my dumb ideas. Well, Stephen, no, there's no dumb ideas. However, you have to pick one. You have to pick one of those names to be eligible. I don't know if you know, we have points.

We have a points here on the next one. And we're pretty skimpy with them. I have a bin of points right next to me. It's not, it's not very deep. They're very, very rare, very coveted. And if you want to be eligible for some ought, no points in the future, and I will try to keep track of your picks. you need to pick one.

There needs to be an official pick for for Madsen. Okay, I'll just go logical and I'll go physio of. Okay, yeah. I think that's one a lot of people I've seen. I cheated here. I cheated.

I'm not eligible for points anyway, so it doesn't matter. You're the voice of God. You're above points. I'm above points. I'm the distributor of points. I can't get them anyway. I cheated here because I was struggling

a little bit with this. And then I realized, and I don't normally like to just do this match up. Oh, these two guys fought in the same card, so have them fight. But I think Vince Bachel makes a lot of sense. I think Pachel's kind of quietly on this three-fight win streak. He's such a tough, gritty test.

The age-wise, it makes a lot of sense. Like we said, you have Madsen, who's 36 years young, and Vince Bachel, who's 38 years young, will be 39 in November. And I thought he could put on a really good showing. He deserves an opponent with a name as opposed to someone. I mean, Madsen kind of fits both things. It's both a name because it's a guy the U.S. he's pushing. Obviously, they put him in a commain.

He's an Olympian. Like I said, he's probably has some notoriety. in his country, which is always gives you a little extra boost. And then he's also at the same time an up-and-comer, even at his advanced age, this was only his 11th pro-M-A fight. So he can kind of get something off of Pichel as well. I think this would be a really, really nice match-up that does a lot for both guys. It would be a really fun fight as well.

I think, I got, I think Pachel is just so underrated in a lot of areas. I know he's been ragged dolls before. I think people remember that the Rustam Chabala fight, where I believe he was suplex, like, three times and like the last one that put him on his head. Hopefully it wouldn't happen with Madsen, but if it did, again, that's something that matchbreakers would like to see for the highlight reels. So there's certainly be worse things.

So I cheated. I killed two birds with one stone there. But again, that's probably a good thing because, again, you know, we got to keep things economical around here. My question is, does Madsen take that fight? I would hope so. He's in, he's in no position to be,

he's in no position to be saying no to things, right? I know he wants Gillespie. In the grand scheme of things, he's in, no position, but like, you know, all the machinations are going behind the scenes with managers and, you know, matchmakers. What is Madsen's incentive to take that fight? Madden goes from Guida to Pichel, and no, no disrespect to Pichelle. I mean, Michelle is a super tough dude.

He should be ranked higher than Guida right now, shouldn't he? Let me look at my mystery rankings here. Go ahead. Stephen, I'm just going to look at my mystery No, no, I mean, I think that it was a good win for him. Pichelle definitely deserves a step up in competition. He's in that position that a lot of people are where he's trying to basically make a case and a lot of guys may not necessarily want to fight him because he's a super tough guy and they might sacrifice their position in the rankings. So if I'm Madsen and I just fought Clay Guida, I think I would want somebody with a little bit more recognizable name value.

And that would help me get to where I need to go faster. You think he's going to start calling his shots. You think this split decision nod over Clay Guida has gotten to his head. He's going to start Conno McGregoring people. I'm not Conor McGregor, but if you're 36 and you don't have that much time, you're 3 and 0, it's lightweight, you know, hopefully you have good management. You shouldn't be fighting your way through the wilderness. And there's a lot of tough guys out there.

There's a lot of tough guys that could give Madsen a lot of problems. I think that Glea. I mean, you name three of them. I mean, you named three guys who I think any of those guys you named are not like walkover fights for him at all. Right. But I'm, yeah. And so that's why I'm kind of thinking for like, Nate, for, that's what I'm thinking, Stevens. Like, Stevens takes that fight because he's on a, he's on a big, big slump.

He hasn't got a whole, a lot of choices. Wait, you pick, Pizzee. No, Stephen, look, you pick, okay. You picked Fizzee. Yeah. There's no going back into Stevens train. I think, I think. If I'm busy, why do I take that fight?

Why do I take Madsen? I mean, that's another. Because they are independent contractors, not employed by the UFC, but, you know, paid by the UFC to do their job. and wear venom. Sure. And crypto.com. And crypto. Oh, yes.

Shout out crypto. com. But yeah, so I cheated there. We'll get, you know what, let's get your pick for Pichel now then. You know,

let's just, since I kind of tied them together. So who do you like for Vince Pichel? I don't like Gregor Gillespie. We've already been there. So I picked Hanata Moikano. Oh. Oh,

I didn't see anyone suggest that one. That's fresh. That's a fun matchup. I like that one too. That's a fun. That's a fun match. Tough veteran. Face some names.

You know, he'll probably want somebody bigger. But given Pichel's momentum, given their trajectory, I think it's a good fight for Pishel to, again, build that momentum, get past, get sort of breakout of the pack. And Moikano's known, more well known because he's fought some tough guys, mostly featherweight, of course. But he's, I would still consider him a solid property. at lightweight. And I think that that would be a winnable fight and a good fight for his career.

I just want to see it. That's a fight where I'm not necessarily thinking about what it would do for other their careers. I just think that's a really cool competitive fight. So I actually do want to see that one, good style matchup and all that. Mike, let's move on to the heavyweight fight then. My name's Stephen. What did I say? I said Steve. I'm sorry. Stephen Parker Porter won a pretty convincing decision, I think, over Chase Sherman. It was a pretty high-paced heavyweight fight until the third when it understandably slowed down. But I thought it looked good. For me, I'll throw my pick out there first. I liked Parker Porter versus Eilir Latipi. I had some other options, but I think that one makes sense. Again, I did just go to my rankings here, and I think I

have them right next to each other after Saturday night. So yeah, I didn't put like a great amount of thought into it, but I think, I think that's a good test for Parker Porter. He's a, he's a, kind of a unique property at heavyweight. Again, one of those high-paced, really aggressive guys, good technical skills, I think. I think he actually has a really solid technical striking skills. He's not like a brawler. He's not just swanging and banging in there. So, yeah, I like, and I think Latifie has some potential at heavyweight, how much I'm not

sure. But if he got to win over Parker Porter, I'll start to believe of a little more that he's not just a light heavyweight masquerading as a heavyweight. I don't know about you. What do you think for Parker Porter? I picked Ben Rothwell because he had two canceled fights with Lynn, so he needs a fight. He needs to get back to action soon. And I think that it's a good style matchup to test his submission ability. Also, Ben has that kind of zombie-like style sometimes where he just sort of gets in there and, you know, gets the collar tie and, and smashes you in the face. You know, Ben has obviously looked great at times, brilliant at times. And it's a matter of like

the wear and tear and the years and everything, getting the best out of him. The best Ben Rothwell probably, I think, beats Parker Porter due to a more varied skill set. Oh, definitely. But I think Parker takes that fight because, again, we're making room for the new and you build the new off the old. And I don't think there's, there's few more old guard at this point than Rothwell. So I think that given Parker's trajectory, I think this was win number two in a row. He's two and one. Two and one, correct. Yeah.

And, you know, this is heavyweight. I think that you put those two together. and it's like a referendum on whether he can be at the higher levels in heavyweight. Yeah, and heavyweight's one of those divisions where you really can't look at like the difference and experience level because it's, there's just like two tiers at heavyweight. There's like guys with 15 fights or more and then there's guys of like, I'm sorry, 15 UFC fights or more and then there's guys like five UFC fights or less. It feels like there's no middle ground.

So at some point, if you're going to give like Parker Porter a step up, you, you, it has to be like a big step up. There's no, there's no, I'm trying to look like there's no in between for him to fight. It's either other guys who only have three or four UFC fights or, again, as I said, guys who have 10 or more UFC fights. That's just kind of how the division has, like, shaken out over the past couple of years with how it's been booked and guys who have been released and things like that. And the cool thing I've been Rothwell is he'd take that fight.

He's just not a guy who he just doesn't say no to fights. Like he'd be like, yeah, Parker Porter, I like that guy. Let's, let's throw it out. He wants that because he wants a win. And, you know, because he's had fights canceled. He needs to stay busy. And I think he's going to take a look and he's going to go, I'm going to chew that guy up on the feet and then I'm going to go go choke him.

So again, I think it's, you know, it's like you're trying to, you put two, two puzzle pieces together here. And a lot of times these things don't align because of the business of MMA. But I think that that's a fight that both of them would take and would be beneficial to both, less beneficial to Rothwell. Yeah. Of course. But he's at the point where he needs to build a lot more critical mass before he starts getting back to the top 10 of the division. And it's kind of like you said for Canaanere, for some of these guys

who are just professionals, it's like, look, I just want to win enough fights to get myself another four-fight contract and then, and just continue from there. And I feel like that's kind of where Rathwell is. He's, he's been in the game for a long, long time before the UFC, in the UFC. He just wants the checks to keep coming in. And we don't say that to be cynical. It's just kind of a practical thing to say. And there's nothing wrong with it. This is, this is a pro sport. All right. This is pro sports. That's the job. is to make money. No, he wants to be champion.

I can assure you this. I talk to him, a text with him on a semi-regular basis. But he would know a Parker Porter fight wouldn't really help with that case necessarily. Of course. It's just, you can't be a UFC champion if you're not in the UFC, right? That's pretty much it, right?

So you're right. He's going to do stuff to get wins until an opportunity opens up in the top 10, which, again, if you're in there, it will. It'll open up. It'll be there. So it makes a lot of sense. One of the big surprises of the main card. Unfortunately, he missed weight.

Sayy Jakub Kakramanov, who, if it were up to me, we probably wouldn't even match him up. But I know if Mike were here, Stephen, he'd be like, no, no, he won the fight. He took the fight on less than like five days notice, so the weight miss was understandable, which it is. I would have liked to see an apology after, Stephen. I didn't see, I didn't hear that. But Trevin Jones took the fight in short notice, too. He was on like, I think, 10 days or notice.

He made weight. So half the fights these days are short notice in this world. Oh, gosh, that's right. Really, what is what is proper notice anymore? But yeah, Kakkaramana, kind of a dull fight until the end, but really strong finish, just chokes at Trump and Jones unconscious with standing guillotine. Anytime someone this new, Stephen, I mean, I've been saying I'll show I know that there's no wrong answers. There's really no wrong answers. He's just in that he's really in the middle of the pack.

It's bantam weight. It's insanely deep. I kind of picked a name out of a hat. I just said like Tony Kelly. I think it'd be a fun fight. That's it. I just went Tony Kelly. Great.

Hey, Tony. Throwing it out there. Nice going, buddy. There we go. What do you got it? I mean, yeah. Did we both say Tony Kelly? No, I said Keller her.

I said Keller her because he looked really good. Yeah. Because he looked, Kakramano looked really good. And I thought that he's a guy that probably has some heat on him. He's got a good camp behind him. and I thought that Kelleher would take, you know, this is, again, you know, more of the business stuff, but I think that they would give him that fight, and I think Kelleher would take it because of the way that, because of the way that Kakramano looked.

So I like, I pick that one. My own thing is, I think Kelleher, unlike heavyweight, I think he has a lot of options, better options around his level of UFC experience. again, I think you're right. The buzz around Kakoramanov is that he is going to be a future again, top 25, top 15 guy at Bantamweight. But until that happens, I feel like Keller is a lot closer there. I just don't want to match them up yet. I can see the UFC doing it.

Again, Bantamaint's a frigging shark tank. There's no easy fights. And Keller is a good company guy. He does have callouts in mind. He called out a mallee, of course. But he also seems to be more than happy with like not getting that fight. I hope he sticks to his guns this time and gets no Malley or. at least some with a little more notoriety.

But, hey, I'm unranked. Pick me. Right. Well, again, hey, look, if we saw, if we, three weeks from now, if we saw Sayy Jacob Kakramanov versus Brian Keller, her books, I wouldn't, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I'd just be like, yeah, that's how this division and how the UFC goes. Last, the proverbial, last but not least, Stephen, the main card opener between Alexandria Pantoja and Brandon Royval.

Great fight for as long as it lasted, crazy scrambles, and then Pentosia winning with a submission. What do you think? I think the options are pretty limited, pretty clear. He had an exchange with the UFC Flyway champion. Was that convincing to you? Is that the road you want to go, or do you have some other suggestions, Stephen?

It was very nice, and so I just want to give him what he wants. I'm just, I'm disarmed by politeness in this rough and tumble sport. So I would just, I would give him what he wants and put him against Moreno. you know, I feel like it's not going to happen. I feel like Garbrandt is going to, you know. Oh, no, Stephen, no. Oh, wait, is Garbrandt book. He is.

He is. But I mean, I think, I assumed you were saying if he beats Kai Kar-France. That's what I was saying. He leaves. Yep, that's what I was saying. But that he would, like, let's say he knocked Kai Kar-France out. Like, again, classic Cody Garbrandt, like first round knockout. Right.

Looks away, punches. Oh, my gosh. Like, do you think he at here exactly? Do you think he would realistically, like, maybe jump over Tantosia and jump over Ascar Ascaro? Yes, 100%. It just seems like a very, you know, UFC thing to do. For anyone listening, rolling their eyes, let's not forget, last was it, I don't remember

it was December or November, which part it was. Cody was booked to play figurado. He was going, they were giving him a title shot in his first fight at flyweight. Thank goodness. I was to say, unfortunately he got COVID, unfortunately other injuries he said to deal with. But in the end, I want to say it worked out for the UFC. because he should have to win one fight at 125 pounds before getting a title shot, right? That's not an absurd thing.

He's coming off a loss. He's coming off a loss side of loss. Like it worked out for, I would say it worked out for Brandon Moreno. Brandon Moreno, yeah, because he got, he got the shot. Yeah, because I think that they have a, there's a business relationship there. There's a lot of juice on the back end. And I think that, you know, if they can put in a guy who's a very known property, in flyweight. That's what they're going to want to do. Although Moreno, again, great guy and great

for the Latin American market. They've always wanted to build that, make that stronger so that it's not a bad gig. And I think that Pantoja is the competitive matchup. It's the one that, you know, he's on a good run. There's a built-in storyline there. And I think that, you know, while the other machinations of the flyweight division play out. I think it's just a logical thing to do. And, you know, he asked nicely. So why should we fight this? Yeah. And Moreno wants to get these losses back, right? Like, one of them was the ultimate fighter five years ago. One of them was actually in the UFC, like three years ago. So he's changed enough that I don't think there's any doubt in his mind that he can, he would win the third fight with Alex Ranch and Pantosia. But I think we all deserve to see it.

And I think Pantosia has earned it. There is the looming Ascar Ascro, who, who has a recent unanimous decision win over Pentosia. So I get it. I saw a lot of replies last night saying why not ask over him? And I've kind of touched upon it on the post-fight show, but one, Ascroft missed weight in his most recent fight, which hurts his case. I'm not saying it disqualifies

him, but it hurts his case. And two, I think, as you mentioned, the history between him and Moreno, for me, makes that a more compelling matchup right now. I think Ascroft gets that title shot eventually anyway. And I wouldn't be mad if he got it, but Pantos is the choice for me, and that sounds like you agree. could we do the winner like Ascarob, could we do Ascarov versus Pantoja?

I mean, you could. That's what I saw some people say. Because as a title eliminator? When is the, well, I guess, but then what, what Moreno just has to wait, right? Or he would fight the Garbrandt. He has to wait, and they've got a lot of spots to fill. So it seems like this, you know, tease up pretty nicely. And I don't know if you want to, you know, who's, yeah, who's Moreno going to fight in the meantime?

It would, I'll just say this. It would, I, I, I, I. I wouldn't have a problem with Ascroft getting the shot first, or for them doing an eliminator with him and Pantosia. But for me, it would be, I use this word in sports-related anyway, a tragedy if Pantosia never fought Moreno for that world title. I think it would just, it would suck. Let me be more directed with it.

I think it would really suck. Do you have a wild card pick, Stephen? I tried to cue you up for a wild card pick. You can pick anybody on this card that we haven't already mentioned, winner loser that you'd like to see matched up? Well, I actually wrote down Kelleher because I was writing fast. And I wrote down Kelleher versus Jimmy Rivera. So that would be your other if he didn't, if he wasn't booked with Cocker Romano.

That's right. And I think Rivera takes that fight because he's two and four. And Kelleher gets a good test with a veteran name. And he's ranked. I think Jim Rivera's ranked, right? I think in our-River's ranked because he's fought everyone who's at the top. Is he? Again, never said no to a fight, but also needs to.

to be rebuilt sort of a Kevin Gasolum kind of a thing. He takes that fight because he thinks Kelleher is below him. Kelleher says, look at the name. He's a bridge to the to the top of the division, which is what he needs. So he takes that fight, you know, because it'll help his career. He is not, I should say Jim Rivera is not ranked in the only rankings that matter. The MMA fighting.com global rankings, but I believe he at least made on some of our ballots. I think he's on mine. I think I was surprised yes. Well, Bantamway has a lot more entrance from other promotions. Yeah, definitely.

Okay. Well, I like that. I went with William Knight. So the perpetually intriguing prospect. I don't know if he wants to be called a prospect anymore. I still see him that way. I know he's maybe, what, and it's almost in his mid-30s.

So he's not like a spring chicken, but very little, very little MMA mileage. I mean, he's, this is 12th, this is 12th fight, 10th win. So really cool knockout. I want to see him fight Jamal Hill. I don't know if that can't happen. I don't know why. I kept trying to look like, are they teammates, are they friends?

Can this not happen? Are people's expectations of Hill just too high because he has a win over OSP? But I think, again, that was like a deceiving win. I think he needs to fight someone closer to his experience level. And it would be a great clash of body types too. Jamal Hill, very long and rangy, light, heavyweight. Very easy to arm bar, apparently. Yes.

William Knight. not long and rangy. Not long and rangy. Mesomorph, as we said. Thank you. Yes, that's a very cool way of putting it. He's a mesomorph. So William Knight-Gemal Hill is my wild card pick.

Seam, is there any other picks you want to get to before I hand us both over to the mercy of the listeners? Because it's about to be a whirlwind of listener voices here. Are we talking about Josian Nunez, is it all? If you want to. Look, normally we'll only allow one wild card, but you are the special guests. If you have a pressing Josian Nunez pick, and she was impressive as hell,

knocking out Bayam-Malucky, please let us know. Again, like you said, you kind of doubled up on the Kelleher for a wildcard. You want another wild card with Josian? It's your world, Stephen. It's your world. I'm, you know, busy. I'm frantically scrolling right now because, you know, she looks amazing. Very compact fighter.

I think we were we were talking about how compact she is and how much of an interesting look that was watching her go up against Maliki who's super long tall and Angie what a matchup. And how she just took advantage of that so, so well. I was looking. I was looking. I was like I was like surely pre-UFC, you know, Nunez was just was like a 125 or I assumed. And like maybe she took this fight on somewhat short notice. So it took a 135.

No, she's fought as high as 155 pounds. As far as I can see, she has never fought at 125. I still think that's where her future is. But, I mean, her schedule, she was supposed to debut in April. That was a phantomweight fight. And now she made her actual debut at bantam weight. So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe she's just this little 135 pounds slugger.

I don't know, man. She certainly looked like it. Holy cow. And any ideas. I said listeners have got some. But I kind of want to hear what you're thinking first. put you on the spot there's a lot of folks that are coming off of losses

if we're talking about a competitive world that we're living in um oh not Veronica Lazzito tell us Stephen walk us through this who are you crossing off who are you crossing off your list as you go out there's just so many folks coming off of losses

and I mean you could you could go the opposite you could go Alexis Davis and you know again use a name to build the up-and-comber. I saw a lot of that. Alexis is on a pretty bad skid right now, so she takes that because she doesn't have a lot of leverage. She could do Kuntz, well, Kynetskai's out for a bit.

Everyone's booked. This is tough. This is really tough. I would like- What did the listeners have? Oh, I'll get to that. Wouldn't it be nice if they could pull up? You know what would probably happen?

And I haven't looked at the schedule for this show coming up. I do wonder if they would just, if they would find someone for the contender series. and call them up to fight. If there are any women's bantam weights coming up. I don't know if there are, but that could be a contender series debut for someone. That would be a cruel thing. There'll be a cruel thing to do

because Nunez looks like an absolute killer. Well, well, this is when the UFC protected as young? Yeah, never. If anything, they're typically devoured. Okay, let me get, all right. So this is where we get to the listener's favorite part of the show, Stephen, where they get to hear themselves. First, we do a segment normally called Check the Tapes,

where we look back and see if anyone successfully predicted any of the fights that have been booked this week. It was a pretty quiet week, though, as far as fights being reported or announced. So there really weren't any. I did have two of our regular listeners, Marcus McGehee and Hayes Bethard, asking for points. I reviewed their cases. So let me read. So Marcus McGehee first said he believes he kind of called the Misha Tate, Ketland-Veyer fight that's got put together. He says, there was booked against McMahon at the time.

And he said if Misha, he said Misha should fight Ketland if she beats Sarah McMahon. That fight fell through. So technically didn't happen, but he still wants a point. I will give you a half point. I'll give you half point. I'm being generous today. And again, there's not a lot of, I don't have to give it too many other points. So you're lucky.

I'm going to go with a one point budget for this episode. I'm giving him half. The other half will go to Hayes but third, though his case is even more sketchy. So listen to this, Stephen. This guy says, listen to this. He says he picked Edmund Chabazzian versus Nazardine Imov, which I guess is happening after Chabasian lost to Hermanson. But this guy, he hedged with like Edmund Chabazzian versus the winner of this fight or the winner. He essentially threw out like four names. So I'm going to give him a half point. Do you think that's there? So you're going to give him a half point for like, basically.

basically casting a wide net. Let me, let me, you know what, let me be fair. Let me find the actual message and so we can, he said, Shabazian versus Heinrich Imav winner or Muradav Mirr-Shirt winner, which hasn't happened yet. That's not a, that's not like a pick. Like, I had to do one. You narrowed me down to a pick, right?

So are, our listeners not held to the same? They should be. I mean, I don't hold them to the same standards I would, as you, specifically. I hold you to a much higher standard than I hold our listeners to, but I understand what you're saying there has to be some rules that we all follow so are you saying i should save this half point do you think hayes should not get this half points demon yeah hayes i don't think you get credit for you know basically making for what was it four gases and getting one right kind of kind of i mean unless you want to just divide it by four and say you get a quarter point oh we give him a quarter

point yikes oh no and then for oh right okay and then i'm never going to listen to this show again i'm still giving Marcus a half. So I'm just keeping this quarter for the surplus. Hays, you're lucky, because I think Stephen's right. You probably should have got nothing. You will get, you get a quarter ought no point. So squirrel that away. Just invested. So there we go. All right. Now I got it, I got to, Stephen, you're going to have to bear with me here. Again, a lot of listener picks, but I need your, I'm going to need your input on some of these. And again, so people just kind of just sent us questions. Apparently, we answer questions now on the show. First, here's our usual disclaimer, Stephen. We emphasize really, I really, I really

only want to hear about winners unless they're in the main event or a title fight. We have kind of a scatter gories rule. Are you familiar with categories? Refresh my memory. It's the game where you have to like guess words and only the only word, like you're asked to describe something. You have to guess words, but only the unique answers get points. So you get points for originality.

That's kind of the same rule here. I kind of lumped together if a lot, if multiple listeners picked one fight, I just kind of say it up at the beginning of the segment. And then the fighter could already book. Go to Tapology.com. Please, follow MNBFighting.com. Pay attention to fightbookings. If they're already booked, I don't want to hear it.

They made some other mistake. It could be a wrong weight class. They fought already, injured, released. I saw that a lot this week, Stephen. I saw a lot of people like naming fighters that are no longer with the company. Guys, MNapviting.com. We have news for you. If you just check it out.

And also, most importantly, the golden rule, the pick might just be do-do, Stephen, and we just don't want to read it. So that's the basic guidelines here. Got a lot of concerns. But don't we roast stuff? Don't you guys roast any doo-do picks? No, I try not to. I try not to.

But you're free to do it. Like I said, I think some picks here, Stephen may have gotten through the do-do detector. And if that's the case, I'm more than happy for you to do an extra level of quality control. There you go. And squash these do-dos, as it were. These dreams. That's kind of gross. So the most popular picks I saw were cannoneer taking on the Brunson Till winners.

There you go. Very nice pick. Parker Porter versus one, especially. Meno. That's interesting. I don't mind that. This is a deep cut that just shows how on the ball our listeners are. Like, Kakarmanav versus Ronnie Lawrence.

This is like multiple people pick this. And I'm like, I wouldn't have thought of that, but I kind of love it. Yeah. I kind of love it. Vince Pichel versus Drew Dober. Yeah. Yeah. I thought of that.

Yeah. That crossed my mind. Drew's coming off of losses, though. He's on a skid. So if he could take that fight. He's a little bit more of a name. He's just like an incremental step up. So, yeah, I can see that from a competitive standpoint,

from a win-loss standpoint, it's, you know, somebody who's coming off of a loss. So that's why I rolled it out, but I don't mind it. Yeah, I do feel like they're kind of heading in a little bit in different directions, but not a bad matchable. Pentasio versus Pentasio. Pantara. Pantera.

Alex, I apologize. Alexandria Pantosia versus Brandon Marino 3 was the most popular suggestion for Pantosia. There was some sentiment for Figuero, rematch was Figuero, Figueroa, Figueroa, has a win over Pantosia and Pantosia waiting for the Cody Garbrand's car car France winner, so making that and making that the title of eliminator. But that's a long, that's December 11th. That's a long, long way ahead.

And Patoja, again, on Saturday said he wants to fight Moreno in December, so I don't think that's that appealing to him. Kelleher, there's a bunch of options thrown out Miles Johns, Casey Kenney, Louis Smoker, I like all those. As you kind of mentioned, the most popular I saw for the newest star at Bantamweight Josian Nunez was Alexis Stubes, which I think is sensible.

He's also one of the only ones that's available. Yeah, tough fight, tough fight, tough fight, but for sure. Yeah, tough fight. Someone else said that Jocelyn Edwards versus Jessica Rose Clark fight that's a winner of that, that's on October 23rd. And I'm not going to lie, when I saw Josian Nunez's name, when the fight was booked, I kept getting confused with Jocelyn Edwards. I'm sorry. Guys, we read about

a lot of fighters. We read about a lot of fighters. We write about a lot of fighters. this stuff becomes very, very, very confusing. And what was another? For William, Mr. William Knight, I saw a lot of, oh, Kennedy and Zuchuku. Kennedy and Zuchuku. I like that. Yeah, I like that too.

That's a good one. I mean, he's one of those, man, he's had some, some crazy fights. And if there's anyone that could, he's almost like at the cusp of getting knocked out, you know he just looks like just a little bit too casual in there and he's just and then he and then he wrests it from the jaws of defeat yeah uh william night uh good good test uh as far as the jaws of defeat yeah agnastio bahamundas maybe i can't believe bray i talked about the knockout of the night

uh one of the best of the year some sick matchups recommended here uh mike davis him and mike davis would be a brink davis is a regular uh recommendation on our on our uh on the show uh stephen so uh we just need to see that guy He's so exciting. And then Demir Hadsavich for Bahamonis and also Don Madge, the Magic Man. And for Amiz Brahimaj, who opened the show, the most popular pick I saw was him and Philip Roe. So there we go. All right.

Buckle up. Steve, we're just getting started. You got to buckle up here. Oh, we're not done? Okay. Shit. So I'll try to run through these somewhat quickly. I know we've spent a lot of time already, but like I said, we got a lot of suggestions

this week. Through our email, we had casing carpenter come up, first of all, complimenting me on my judging job on Thursdays between the links. I picked Jedd Michoud as the winner. That shows what a professional I am because I had to really, really bite down and do that. I had to pick him over our dear, dear friend, Damon Martin. But I got to do the right thing. So thank you, Casey, for the comments. It only makes you feel a little bit better. And Casey picked Guida versus Jeremy Stevens. That's one fight out there. And also in the email is Robert Miller, who had a really good pick with Bahamandes versus Ferris Ziam. Let me go

to the Twitter here and we got plenty. First timer. Welcome to the show, James McDonald. Says first time matchmaking, don't roast me. Stephen, this person is specifically asking, do not roast me. Okay, please. Literally asking me to roast you. I know.

Pantoja versus Moreno and Kakramana versus Kelleher. You can't roast them. You like that matchup. Yeah. You can't match them. You can't roast. That's what you came up with? I'm they had other picks, but it's like the ones that other people didn't pick.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I saw you getting your roasting, your roasting words ready. No, thank you, James McDonald's. You're welcome here. Dylan at Rick Snip 277 on Twitter. As a question, if Porre moved up to 170, Stephen, who would you favor between him and

Kamar Uzman? Camaro. Um, yeah. Bigger frame. Yep. Reach, I think it's going to be an issue off that jab. Um, and he can always go to the wrestling. Mm-hmm.

yeah I would I would favor Kamaro. I also I just think Kamaru is just his cresting in a way that you know Dustin is as well but if you look at where Dustin has fallen short in the past and then you add the size of Kamaru I think it'd be a very very tough thing to overcome. Yeah it's hard to pick against someone who just has been so

dominant recently who so dominant recently that people on our staff are calling Kamar Uzman the breakout fighter of 2021 when he entered the year as the champion but he's just, he's become so, he's taking it to such another level that people are saying he broke out this year, which I don't know if I agree with it, but I understand kind of the angle people are coming from. I think Uzman would at least be a three to one favorite in that matchup. I don't think that's crazy to say. Chris at Dragon Slayer too likes Mike Davis versus Vince Prichel. Braden O'Neill, I got to give this guy a finger wag.

He did a lot of oars, so I'm not going to read all aspects. He did a lot of this person versus this person or this person. And I'm like, no, Brayden, I hope you paid attention to this episode and saw how harsh we are with handing out points. I need definitive picks, but I did like Parker Porter versus Jargis Daniel, the Man Mountain. Oh, yeah. And Hak Ramanov versus the Tony Gravely, Nate Mainest winner on September 18th. So some good.

The Casey tweeted the other night, like about like, this is what heavy weight is, like a bunch of flesh slapping together. Jargees and Parker, that's a lot of flesh slapping right there. That's a lot of fresh with a little international flavor, so I like that. Timmy O'Sho coming in and with, oh, a, Bellator pick out of nowhere, so I have to read it. Jordan Al Lugo versus Darien Caldwell. Good name, recognition for Lugo. We get to see if Caldwell, Caldwell can expose his wrestling deficiencies. Thank you for the Bellator pick. And Kelleher versus Khalid Taha. The UFC report on

Twitter, Stephen, the UFC report. Brandon Royval versus David Devorak. I just like the description here. I know this guy lost a fight, but I like description. He says, Roy Val clearly needs to step back after losing to the elites of the division. Kind of agree. And Devorak is a guy on the who would also provide fun scrambles, which is basically all I look for in a Roy Val fight. So that's not going to read all these. We've got some guys who are really good at making deep cuts. Denny Caps, I like Jesse's Anunias versus Leah Letson.

I kind of want to see where Leah Lutzen is. Hope that she competes again soon. Pichel versus Riddell. Hashtag Pachal Radell. Pachal Radell. That's a perfect one for you. I think you love the alliterations. Of course.

It's the only reason I mentioned it. Yeah. But Redell won't take that fight, I don't think. Okay. Yeah. He wants Gillespie. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think it's most likely of all the guys who've called them out recently to get it. Because they were booked. They were booked. And then just fell through, unfortunately. Liam Perry, another regular, wants to give props, big props to Mike Heck for the story of Eugene Aubrey, the suitcase kid. Amazing story. Anyone who hasn't checked it out, please go to Mbathfiting.com.

please read the story. It's a great long-form story. There's an audio component that goes along with it. Liam says he listened to that as well, and he thought it was excellent. So thank you, Liam for the comments. I will pass that on to Mike. He's probably going to listen to the show anyway, but thank you. Thank you so much for that. It's a great comment. And some of his picks, Parker Porter versus the Philippe Lin's OSP winner on November 13th. Stephen, did you remember that fight was happening? Yes, I did. One reason I read out some of these picks is just to remind myself. self that some of these fights in, I honestly don't remember like,

well, yeah, I mean, I remember because I was sort of scrambling through my picks this morning. And I remember looking at that. I was like, oh, yeah, those guys are booked. It's very helpful like this, this, this little, yes, this, this, uh, this, this, this dance we do because it gives you an idea of sort of what's coming down the pipeline. And, and I think what I'm learning from being on the show for the first time is that it's not just about, um, you know, who's unbooked now, but sort of looking, a little bit further down and looking at the matchups that are upcoming and then matching those guys, which I tend, so I tend to forget, like, or tend to de-emphasize the ones that are

upcoming and then sort of put them together. I'm not sure the way that, that's the way the UFC really works either. Like, sometimes I feel like they just go with whoever's unbooked, but I think it's helpful to go both ways because, you know, it's more of a grand picture kind of thing as opposed to just who is available in the moment, you know, and theoretically, we should always be, you know, thinking of the big grand picture and, and lining up these, these pieces in the puzzle. Yeah, it's, I'm going to talk, Steve, I don't want you to go too deep. I'm going to tug on the, I know, once you go down this matchmaking well, you really start to look far ahead. I'm tugging on the rope. I'm tugging on the rope, Steve, I don't want you to fall too far down the wall. I know it's,

it's very seductive when you start putting that mashmaker hat. So, and you've done an amazing job, by the way. So again, I want to thank you again. And Liam Pear, I think he had, well, two kind of cool suggestions. He said he wants to see hashtag guerrilla warfare between Jared the killer gorilla, cannoneer and Darren the gorilla till, of course, if he beats, of course, if he beats Brunson. And, you know, I love when people talk hashtags, as you can tell. And Gastilum, I thought this is a cool suggestion. Gasolum versus Drickus Duplessi.

Oh, right. Or is that the wrong kind of guy outside the top of Dean, though? Is that a guy we kind of see as like a top 10 talent that's only going to make things worse for? Yeah, I don't know if you put him in there. I think that Gaston takes that fight because Drickus got so much pop from that one fight. But I don't know if that's the right one just yet. I think that you need to build Drickis a little bit more, you know, give him more of an intermediate step before you put him against one of of the most seasoned, a guy that makes a lot of people look back and gives a lot of people

a good fight in Kelvin. So I would suggest a more intermediary stuff before I made that fight. Thomas Collins went with Vince Pichel versus Terrence McKinney. He said not logical fight in any sense, but the UFC might try and fast track McKinney and I can see them throwing him against Pachel. You don't think there's any chance to do that? Oh, I don't know. I don't know how they view Pachel. There's building. And then first of all, what? What incentive does Vince have to take? He has no, pal. What's his incentive you speak of, Stephen?

These guys are, there's some of these guys, they can't say no. They just got to take the fight. Well, I think that it's just one of those things where the, you know, when the manager calls the 10th time and, you know, or maybe, you know, there's an injury, quote unquote. I just don't think there's a lot of incentive for Vince to take that fight. He has been through the ringer. I was going to say, I have a Vince Bichel anecdote that I've just been dying to to say.

In relation to the one argument that we had last night, we don't typically argue online. We're not best friends like you and heck, but I'm like the kid down the block in your neighborhood. I'm the kid in the cul-de-sac that you occasionally see skateboarding. So the stoppage. The Trevin-Jones. Yeah. In Cockramano-O-Gov-Jones. It was late.

It was several seconds. I haven't timed it, but it was several seconds late. You pointed out, and I thought it was on the wrong side. Herb Dean was on the wrong side. Should not have been the wrong side, which, you're right, made up added a couple of seconds of unconsciousness for Jones, unfortunately. And the thing that popped into my head was Vince Pichel. And the reason why, why would that pop into my head, you ask? Well, let me tell you.

Please explain. Vince Pichel was the guest fighter in the command referee course I took in 2011. 10? Oh, no. It's 2011 or 12. And this is way, but like, this is, I, I, I, I was reminded of Vince Pichel when I saw him in the UFC. It was like Evan Dunham, who I grew up with, seeing him in, at extreme courtroom, like, I grew up with that guy. It was like, it was this sort of flash, like, I know that guy from somewhere. And I was like, oh, shit, that was the, that was the guest fighter in the command course. So why is it? So the setup is, so the setup, is I was refereeing a quote unquote fight between Vince Bachel and another guy. I don't I don't he

he never went pro or never fought in the UFC and Vince put him in a a guillotine choke and I was on the wrong side and this guy flopped to the ground like a fish like wasn't actually unconscious but it was to basically test your referee uh mechanics they call them and to where it's a way. you are and what you do when someone goes unconscious. I stared at this picture for several seconds watching Vince Bichel's opponent flop like a fish as Vince held him up by the neck until John McCarthy went, what are you doing? I can hear him. I just heard Big John's voice there. And I felt so ashamed because I had let this poor guy and lose more oxygen to his brain over several seconds.

Yes. And I had waited too long. The mechanics of this thing are very important, you know, and you have to be on the right side. And it's a tough position that they're in being against the cage. But when the choke part and the face, you want to be looking at the face and you want to be looking at where the lock is, you know?

And he was just on the wrong side. And it happens. And it wasn't the worst stoppage, but it was a little bit late of a stoppage. You could hear Big John if he were there. Yeah. If he were there in the cage with Herb Dean would have been like, what are you doing?

Yeah. I mean, like I said, it wasn't the worst. How did I get on this tangent? We were talking about Vince Bachel. We just don't know what Vince Pichel in general before we move. Because I don't know how much more we're going to talk about Vince Pichel. So this is a good time for it. Yeah.

Yeah. Not getting the not getting the Terrence. McKinney. Yes. I agree. It's if Pichel had a choice, there's no reason for him to take that fight. Extremely dangerous. Extremely dangerous.

I was meaning to say the whole point was Vince Fischel has been around for a long time, a lot longer than a lot of people think he's been through a lot of ups and downs, a lot of injuries. He deserves a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a lot of injuries. guy who's going to get him to where he needs to go. And Terrence is not the guy. He hasn't, you know, one fight, you know, it was a big call out. It was a nice little pop of attention. It's not enough. I don't, I don't even know if it's great for McKinney because I think Pichel would pay him. Oh, yeah. But I don't know. But I don't know if it is, though, because I think Pachell would beat him

and like maybe make him look bad and like, you know what I mean? That's also extremely possible. I think you need to put McKinney in there with guys a little closer to his experience level who he's a better chance he's going to land that like that bomb knockout because that's kind of the name he's making for himself. So what about Madsen versus, oh, I only asked this one because Thomas Collins, Madsen versus Davy Hamos, he hasn't been released. Has he, Davy Hamas? I don't remember seeing any reports. Davy Hamas, no. No, I don't think so he's lost like a couple of fights, but he lost, but you know, he was on a tear before that. He's really good. Okay, so anyway, so I like that matchup. I think, again, wrestler versus expert jujitsu guy, can't go wrong. Marcus McGeigh, he always

names the editions of the Otnos. He calls us the Kill a Guerrilla edition. So shout-out. do Jared Cattanoe here. He just wanted me to pronounce his name, I think. Lingo versus Bagdasarian. Sure. Badistine, very exciting win recently as UFC debut. Kelleher versus Hanayya. I like it. Again, better in matchup. And this is a funny one. William Knight versus Ed Herman. No, no. Oh, just, oh, he's roast. God, he's roasting people. Guys, you're getting roasted. Stephen is roasting you. That's not, I mean, that's a, that's not a roast. But I mean, It's just like, what is the point of that? Like, Ed Herman needs...

You know what, Steve, you know what sucks is? I'm the one who's going to get the mail about this on the show. You're not getting with the feet. You're not going to get a fee. None of the responsibility, all of the offense. I'm passing. I'm screenshoting all these messages that get sent to me and sending them to you. All right, yes.

At Derek Hot Stuff on Twitter. Ed Herman so much. At Derek Hot stuff on Twitter says, He said firstly, Mads Bernel versus his maculov or Jurel Alvrez. And I said, I assume you mean Marco Madsen here. So I just thought. Mads, man, hey, look, he had a great win over Sanchez. If he's able to parlay that into a new UFC deal and a fight with Damirez Magulov or Joel Alvrez, more power to him.

But no, he obviously meant Markle Madsen. Jake Salky, I want to give Jake Salky some time here, probably to cut a little bit short. He like Brahimaj versus Jeremiah Wells. he says that's his favorite matchup, possible matchup, and Kenanir, he says, Jared Kennear versus Israel-Dissania, he says, well, they'll have to wait to see what happens with Whitaker,

but he just loves the matchup, very technical, and he says he thinks he's for sure earned a shot. I think we agree if Kenanier could wait an infinite amount of time. He just can't. I think we agree, it'd be a great fight, but I just don't know if that's happening. Brett Mowbley had to match us, but most importantly, by the way, Brett Mowgli, go CSU Rams.

This event, he says, was a reminder. The UFC has become overblooded with the next, number of cards. Yeah, I don't, I don't see anyone. I don't see anyone disagreeing with that. Is this the matchmaker column or is this the business of MMMA? I've got to look, I don't know, sometimes it's blurs. Hayes III, again, I can't read all these now, but Bahamondas versus Kamaworthy, Vince Pichel versus the Leonardo Santos, Alexander Hernandez winner. I like that. Santos, I think makes a lot of sense, too, if he beats Hernandez. So I'd probably lean more towards that. Stephen Brighter, I think,

good matchup. Madsen versus Matus Gamrott. I like that. Almost the end of the Twitter picks here. Barry O'Reilly, Kelleher versus Adrian Yanez. I like the description here. He said, step up and experience opponent. And if Kelleher derails the Yanez hype train, then he should get the chance to do the same to O'Malley.

So yeah. Yeah, I think that's a solid matchup. I like that one. And he likes Pichel versus Fizzif. So there you go. Hot take Higgins has a question for us, Stephen. God, I think he's such a law. Okay, let's try and keep this because I's.

This is going to sound conspirator. of me, but did the company guys like DC have an interest in certain prospects winning, i.e. Dana guys. He says, maybe I'm biased because Porter's from my home state, but I feel like DC was watching a different fight. I thought Porter dominated and just looking forward to today's show. Conspiracy, Stephen, again, you're, you're an investigative reporter. Is there a conspiracy here? So, so is he saying, is he asking whether or not, hang on? So maybe he thinks that Chase Sherman is a, is a Dana, white guy and that's why the...

No. No. No. I just think that there's a lot of recency bias when you watch, you know, when you watch some of these and they get attached to certain things. And it's a very human thing to watch something and to get attached to it if it looks impressive. I notice this myself, I was thinking about this last night when I was doing play-by-play. A lot of times

I will get attached to a certain fighter based on certain things and I will start looking for other things. It's like a form of confirmation bias. Yep, yeah. We all have bias. We all have bias. Yeah. And it's hard, like, when you're judging a fight, it's a particularly challenging thing.

And commentating a fight, too, because both of them, in theory, are supposed to be neutral. One of them you provide color in terms of, like, the techniques on display. And then there's actual play-by-play where you're describing the techniques and overarching stuff. So, but when you're seeing something happen in real time, something that's taking place so, fast with so many different techniques, there's a tendency to latch on to certain things. And I would say you'd have more of an argument if you were looking at one of D.C.'s teammates with whom he has much more experience and knows personally more and knows the style and everything like that. I'd say that you might have an argument there. But as far as

like Chase Sherman being and Dana Whiteca, I don't know. I think he was using that. No, no, no, no. But he's like, he's a guy who's working his way up. And, you know, he also looked good at the beginning of the fight. Yeah, I assume Mr. Higgins here was referring to other fights, not this one in particular, just kind of asking why the commentary is sometimes off. I'll just say, I think he's also picked up, Dan Cormier, that is, has picked up some of the worst habits of Joe Rogan,

which is, is kind of, you touched upon latching on to a narrative. And again, like I said, you might have to do it, just because, again, when you're doing commentary, there's so much stuff to focus on. it's you know once you once you see something happen you're kind of just focus on that one thing and that's how you kind of get through the you frame everything through that yeah exactly and I think Joe Rogan has done that a lot

probably to not a not a positive degree and I think Cormay has picked up some of that sometimes but he's I do feel like he does better when he's with like a Paul Felder and with like a John Anick and not with his frat boy buddy Joe Rogan but again we could criticize that commentary all day but thank you for the question hot take Higgins

A couple more from Twitter. Dustin Gedco likes Brahimage versus Mike Perry and semi-casual MMA jumping in with Bahamandes versus Jeremy Stevens. He says, great for Stevens if he gets a win. But I'd love for Bahamandes to send him to Bellator. Harsh. Harsh.

These are the kind of people that listen to our show, Stephen. But wait, I'd love for Bahamandes to send him to... Send Bahamandes to Bellator? No, that Bahamandes would beat Jeremy Stevens and say, send him to Belator. Ouch. Harsh.

Harsh. I'll go to Instagram now to wrap things up here. This is where it gets really wild. And guys, always great suggestions, but I'm not going to read everyone. Evan Rodriguez, I think is a first-timer. Likes Roy Val versus Bon Terrine. I love that. I just don't think we see Bonterine at Flyweight anymore.

I think his days are over. Maybe Roy Val goes up to 135, but that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Bahamandes versus Ricky Glenn. Gasolum versus Brendan Allen. And for some reason, they're really insistent on getting our thoughts on, I'm going to leave this one to you, Tanner Bozer and Alonzo Menafiel. Apparently they're saying they, maybe they must have message Mike or something because it's the first message I have from them, that they really want to see Tanner Bozer versus Alonzo Meadowfield. They just want some thoughts on this fight. Could take place at heavyweight or light heavyweight.

I don't think Tanner Bozer wants to cut the light heavyweight. I don't know. Stephen, do you have anything to say about this? Wait, Alonzo Menafield is fighting at light heavyweight right now. Yes, correct. So they're in different divisions. They're in different divisions. So why are we doing this?

This person is really is insist on getting our thoughts on it. I actually thought Tanner Bozer might be an opponent for Parker Porter. Sure. Unless he wouldn't want it as much. That would be a less attractive matchup to him. But they kind of have similar trajectories at the moment in heavy wave. Alonzo Metafield versus Tanner Bozer. I think that.

Alonzo is kind of hot and cold and when he's really hot he's he's very good I think he beats Tanner Bozer pretty handily but Tanner's just such a grinder and he probably wouldn't they'd probably be about the same size if they're fighting at heavyweight Alonzo's probably just not cutting right so

yeah if we're in fantasy world sure Evan Rodriguez I will give you two points two Otno points if that matchup gets made. Okay, there we go. You wanted us to talk about it.

Make sure you send Stephen a nice message. Stephen, your DMs are open on Twitter, right? No, nobody send me any messages. I don't want to hear it. At Stephen on Twitter. Oh, my God. And tell him, and thank him, because I don't have a lot to say about that matchup. But if it gets made, the odd no points are all yours, my friend.

Michael Connofrey, a regular contributor says, first of all, never bet against a female Brazilian fighter unless it's Bech-Coheha. And he believes he is quoting Sun Tuzuz, the Art of War. I don't know if my edition of the Art of War has that in it, but maybe it's a bit of a paraphrase. Nunez versus Alexis Davis, obviously he's talking with Nunez. So, yes, Josiah Nunez, Alexis Davis, Alex Davis, and Austin Lingo versus Mike Grundy, which I liked. Oh, he has some stupid pun. He said, guess the judges were here in the lingo tonight.

I shouldn't have read that one. Hakhrmanov versus Saeed, Nirmagomeda, Afghanistan versus Bekistan. or see, sorry, the other way around is Begastan versus Dagestan, Madison versus Moises and he wants to I thought about that one too, yeah. He wants to see, I should have saved this one before last.

This is, there's only one matchup to make for Parkerport, one that gives him a chance of redemption, a rematch 13 years in the making the stars of a line to make it happen. Give me John Jones versus Parker Porter 2, five-round, pay-per-view main event. He says the co-main can be Connor versus Josh Fabia.

Oh, I shouldn't have mentioned them. I apologize. I am dying to see Fabia in the octagon. Oh, my goodness. You two are pals, right? Parker Porter and John Jones. Yes, they did fight back in 2008, and John Jones knocked him out in 36 seconds,

but so much has changed. So much has changed. Matt Bradbury coming up with a lot of great picks. I'll just read a few here that I like, Ossalingo versus Sean Woodson. Parker Porter versus Pezau, DeLima, ready to go to Lima. So there we go.

Oh, Jerry DeLum, excuse me. And there's, he pulled a Zach Cummings card. He said, but he wants Cummings for Calvin Gossom. So thank you, Matt Bradbury. Tristan Gordetz, regular listener and watcher of our shows. Madsen versus Ottman as Zatar. He's like, I don't think the UFC will give Madsen a ranked fighter like Gillespie. We called out after.

Plus, he thinks Riddell's got that fight. And Riddell's ranked number 13. So just gets to explaining, you know, he kind of used process of elimination there, which I like. MMA heads coming in with my pronunciation of this guy's name is getting worse It's getting worse

It's getting worse. It's deteriorating. Cockramanov Kakramanov versus Randy Costa. Too soon? No, well, I mean, no. No. I don't think so.

And Costa wants that to get back on the wind column. William Knight versus Tyson Pedro who has not competed since 2018. He was booked earlier this year, or in 2020? I think early, earlier in February. He was booked in like February. and that fell through for some reason.

Bahamondas versus Mafferbola Ramiz Bahamage versus Diego Lima. So again, again, see, when you see, these guys got some deep cuts. Seriously, deep cuts. Yeah. They're way ahead. This is why I do this section because no stone will be unturned with the listeners of this show.

We have a regular name Just Call Me Bob, who leaves very long messages. I won't read out the whole thing. He had two practical suggestions, Marco Madsen versus Jim Miller, and Parker Porter versus Chris Burnett. And then he said, Okay, first up, he said, obviously read this book. Picking for Canyar sucks.

Only top 10 guy without a fight is a notch in his belt already. He's the obvious number of contender. That's the easy way out. What do we do? He says, Canineer versus Musassi. He says, Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson. Matt's for now. I'm going to get a match for now.

Jerry Jones, Jimmy Johnson have made up recently. I think Dana Scott will too and co-promote. Yeah, definitely not. But thank you for suggestion. And that would be a great fight. question for you Mike we're almost at the end here from buffalo oh my gosh how many times I call you Mike on the show I'd say half dozen maybe that's it's it's it's I'm gonna hear I'm gonna listen to it back after I'm just gonna catch them all I'm not editing I'm not editing in the map no don't make it's ever follow buffalo gums on Instagram just wants to know

gaslam versus Holland if they were both on short notice Stephen who went both on a week's notice I'm sorry very specific who wins gasoline versus Kevin Holland yes weeks notice let's just say they fight it i don't know i mean neither guy cuts weight let's get let's make it a 205 so currently like in like right now and at this moment you know what let's say they were added to this upcoming Vegas 35 Vegas 35 um gas tilam because gastillam listen um he's at the point now where he's risking getting released from contract so he's going to give uh he's going to give holland the marvin vittori special uh as they call it in the industry and, you know, actually, you know, he was his wrestling and take him down and grind out a decision.

That's hard to deny. I would also pick, yes. No, I would also pick gas them. I just think he's a better fighter. I just think all around with the wrestling, even the striking. I think he's a very good striker and the pace he'd put on Holland. I think too much. Trip Harper, a friend of ours now from New England, he just wants to say he loved the card.

He said he thinks there was four guys from the Massachusetts, New England area. He was a little biased. He was asking us why we weren't more jazzed about it. Again, it was a card. I enjoyed it. We won't be talking about it two weeks from now. He thinks Pantosia should be next for the title shot. What?

Oh, no, Pat, sorry, he says he shouldn't be next. He wants to see the Ascar Eliminator. Vince Pichel, he says, against anyone in the lightweight division. Casting a very wide net here, I will not get points for this. He just says he's so gritty. And that mustache, I mean, come on. And then he says, is there anything? else say about Clay Freaking Guida, legend. He can have anyone he wants. He won that fight,

terrible decision. And he says, so I am not matching. So, uh, Trip Harper refraining from matching for the Olympian, Marco Madsen. He does not believe he won the fight. And I will end with an old friend, Jay Steiner. Stephen, when we start, when Mike and I started the show, we had like maybe two or three suggestions a week. And Jay Steiner was one of them. He's been, he's been noticeably absent. So happen to hear him checking. He actually volunteered to co-host this show. So he was, he was the second choice behind you, Stephen. So thank you. you Chase for checking in. I'll just read these real quick. Night, well, night versus Chase, honestly.

Stop it. Night versus, well, I, or as I would have called him, Mike, like 20 times. Night versus Eric Anders, Anunias versus Vanessa Mello, Pachel versus Tiago Moezezes. I think it's a really strong pick. He says that Pichel's 30 years old, three fight, win streak, give him a top 15 opponent, see if he sings or swims. And then he didn't want to match up for a Cockramanov for the reasons I said before, missed weight. And then Madsen versus Close, he said, still need to see a more dominant win from Madsen before he gets a top 20 fight. So very sensible matchmaking and welcome back, Jay Steiner.

And thank you, everyone. And thank you, Stephen, for patiently sitting through those and providing your insights. Guys, you can reach me. Send me suggestions, please, at Alexander KK. Lee on Instagram at Alexander K.K. Lee on Twitter and Alexdotlyspination.com. If you want to email me, your suggestions. Do not reach out to Stephen. Leave Stephen alone. No, I can be reached at Alexander K. Lee at gmail.com.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. But yes, please. Evan, if you guys, if you can find Stephen, send him a compliment. And thank him for guesting on the show and for giving so much attention to your questions and your suggestions. Mike and Mike, like I said, is on vacation. Please send him nice messages on Twitter at Mike Heck. underscore jr and on instagram at m underscore heck junior uh sorry jr just send them yeah send him nice messages to make sure he's he's having a good time out there stephen we come to the end uh are you

ready for next you're going to be you're going to do next week's show too right um no i'm not we have hold aren't you excited about next week's quasi uh ultimate fighter 29 finale though not To the non-Tuff finale we were just talking about. Which right now looks like Edson Robosa and Gigacacaze in the main event, amazing main event. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. And then we've got, you know, for the folks who are watching Tough 29, you got Brian Battle, Gilbert Obina in the middleweight tournament final,

Ricky Tersios and Brady Houston in the bantamweight tournament final, Kevin Lee going up to 170 to fight Daniel Rodriguez. Also from the ultimate fighter this season, Andrei Petroski and Michael Gilmore. and then a fight that a lot of people on our show actually were calling for for the longest time. Mahmoud Muradav versus Gerald Amir Shard. Muradav, I think, going for like his 15th straight win

or something like that. The card's probably still being finalized what we see in the prelim so far. Sam Alvey, Wellington, Termin, Dustin Jacoby versus Darren Stewart, Jamar Emmer's versus Pat Sabatini, and a handful of other fights that I'm varying degrees of confirmation. J.G. Alderich versus DeVanastomoplas and Alessio di Kiriko,

Abdul Razak, Al-Hassan. So I am looking forward to this. card as one of the 12 people who watched Gildred Fighter this season. Not with more emotional investment. I am gas for it. I am gas for it, but I mean, I almost can't wait, but it is later next weekend, guys.

Steve, I really, again, I really can't thank you enough for shipping here. I know it was a long show. They're going to kill me, whoever asked to edit any of this. But I don't think we have to, because I think it was a flawless show other than me messing up your name like 15 times. Other than that, I think you did great.

So, yeah, thank you so much. any parting thoughts? I guess. I mean, is this like between the links where like we talk about a note. Plug yourself. Plug anything you got coming up. Be on the right side of chokes.

That's what I'm going to say. Check your mechanics. Make sure you're on the right side. Is this a message for anyone specific? This is just general. No, this is just any referee out there. Just make sure you're on the right side of the choke.

When they set it up, listen, it's very hard. I'll go back to that class. I failed that class. It's very hard to do to be a good referee in this sport. Things move so fast and there's so many different techniques. And the way that they move around the cage using these techniques as they flow through technique to technique, it's extremely difficult to be exactly where you need to be at every moment to say nothing of the random just one shot chaos where somebody drops and you got to get there in seconds flat.

So Herb is, you know, I, I, Herb actually did something, we were talking, God, I can't remember who it was, but he stopped the fight that everyone was calling, saying it was stopped too soon. And, oh, it was a fight. Recently, not recently. Yeah, it was O'Malley versus. A Mutino.

Yeah, Mutino. Yeah, I had no problem with that stoppage. I had no problem with that stoppage. Yeah. And I'm sure I'm revisiting that. I'm sure you guys have talked this. Yeah, yeah. No to death.

I want to stay on the record. Yeah. He did the right thing. Sure. He was right there when he needed to be. And, you know, this is a, if you're getting it right more than wrong, you're probably doing a good job. Herb, I think, has had some some reaction issues as of late.

And this was one of them where he was just off. But it, look, it's, it's tough to find a good referee. It's tough to find a referee who doesn't, you know, mess things up. Yeah, look, these are, these are criticisms of love and respect. Yeah. And I would say. If, you know, I want to, you know, for one, a regulatory tip, Nevada, release your salaries. Thank you.

Yes. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, Stephen. Drop that mic. Yes, people love. Fighter pay is persistent issue.

We talk about a lot. And, you know, guys, we do it for a reason, not to just look up for the fighters, but because it's such a distraction. And at the end of the day, as we always say the show, MMA is supposed to be fun. That's why we do this particular show. And I would like to think that's why most of you guys keep up with MMA. So MMA is supposed to be fun. And Mike Heck will be back next week to bump me, to bump me out of these lead hosting duties, thankfully, because again, you guys heard me way too much.

And that's just what I'd say. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you again, Stephen, for being here. And join us next week again as we wrap up this episode of, what a smooth intro. As we wrap up this episode of, I've always wanted to do this. On to the next one, the podcast. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.