MMA Fighting - On To the Next One | What's Next For Islam Makhachev, Ian Machado Garry After UFC 330?

Episode Date: August 16, 2026

Islam Makhachev is still the #UFC welterweight champion, but it was one of the toughest fights of his career as he hung on to defeat Ian Machado Garry in the main event of UFC 330. Who does Makhachev face in his second title defense, and where does Machado Garry go from his first championship opportunity? On an all-new edition of On To the Next One, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck discusses what's next for Makhachev following his record-setting win, if it's Carlos Prates or Michael Morales, or somebody else, and what could be next for Machado Garry. Additionally, future matchups are discussed for Mackenzie Dern following her lopsided title defense over Gillian Robertson in the co-main event, along with fellow main card winners Jalin Turner, Dustin Stoltzfus, Esteban Ribovics, and more. Also, the fellas go rapid fire with the MMA Fighting viewers, as they read off their matchmaking suggestions following the UFC's latest trip to Philadelphia. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Alexander K. Lee: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@AlexanderKLee⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hire the Right Pro today. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hello there, everybody. Happy Sunday morning and welcome to a brand new edition of On to the Next One. We are live following the UFC's return to the city of Brotherly Love, Philadelphia, PA, where a young Will Smith was born and raised on the playgrounds where he spent most of his days. And last night,

the Xfinity Mobile Center was rocking. Some cheers, a lot of booze down the stretch. Philly was certainly Philly. But in the end, both champions walked into Philadelphia with championship belts. McKenzie Dernan is the Mockachev

and was all said and done. It was double and stills. McKenzie Dern gets a lopsided win over Julian Robertson, is a Mockachev. Beetsy and Gary. Saw a lot of people say, like escaped with the belt. I don't know if that's necessarily the case,

but Islam had some problems in this fight, and that certainly brings up some really interesting discussion points moving forward in his welterweight title run. But I am Mike Eck and joining me to react to UFC 330, to put the matchmaking crown back upon his head, Canada's own co-host, co-matchmaker, Prince of Positivity, and my best friend, Alexander Kaylee, AK, how we doing? get the MA fighting tea.

What a show. What a show, my best friend. What a show we had yesterday. A little disappointment for us up here in the Great White North. Hoping to get our first champion since GSP, my UFC champion. Shout out to Roy McDonald's. Doing some belts out there. Our first woman champion would have been nice, you know,

Felicia Spencer, Valerie LaTorneau, Alexis Davis, couldn't get the job done. I think it's fair to say, like Gillian had the best chance on paper, right? Because Felicia went up against cyborg, right? And I think the least you went into Cyborg, Alexis Davis went up against Prime Ronda Rousey and was gone in seconds. And LaTorneau went up against Yonanah. Was it? Was it Nunes? Was it Nunes?

In my name. We were running out. We were running out of people. I feel so bad because I'm pretty sure I was there. And I feel like I should know this. I think Cyborg fought Spencer in like a non-title fight after you lost. I'm sorry. Yes.

I'm sorry. I was there for the Cyborg fight in Edmonton. I was not there for the Man of Nunes title fight in Las Vegas. Okay. Either way, three all-time greats. And maybe McKinsey Dern would be an all-time great, too. You know, we don't know. The story is not close to being written with McKenzie.

But obviously, Yohanna, Amanda, and Rhonda, our hopes weren't high that we were going to win. But I tell you, I was pushing that Gillian Robertson narrative. And, you know, it wasn't a great fight. The main event was okay as well. It wasn't, you know, somewhat forgettable. But wild night of upsets, holy crap. Mike, like five minutes before the show, I was like, maybe I'll lay a few bets down. Like, we got some big favorites here.

Just parlayed some big favorites. Boy, I stayed away. did not put a penny on this card. And I am glad I did. So my condolences to all the betters out there who got hurt by this because, I mean, right out of the gate, I'd probably like a thousand parleyes were blown up, you know? Yeah, I stay away from that.

I had actually like a pretty decent night with the slips. The biggest bet was the Ian Machado Gary's point spread bet, which slammed home. Thank God to one of the judges who actually scored the fight correctly at 4847. so I cover the nine and a half points. Was that a difference? If he had scored at 49, 46, you wouldn't have. I would have lost.

I would have lost. But you wasn't feeling good during the fight, though. You must have been like, yeah, you're pretty sure. Yeah, I was like, it's 48, 47. And I rewatched it. And yeah, it's, I was like, it's definitely 48, 47. I don't understand. So I was very happy about that.

And then McKenzie Dern did the thing and the over four and a half hit. So I was happy. Jalen Turner did his thing. So that worked out great. And I got Esabon Rievich did Rievovich things. So he did the thing for me. And then, yeah, it started off a little slow with Joel Alvara is losing. And then Rievich did his thing.

And Mansor lose it. I had the under one and a half in that fight. So I was very close to hitting that. But Stoltz just waited a little too long to get the finish. And what a story he was. And we'll talk about him and some of the other fighters. But, AK, you're the Prince of Positivity. All said and done here.

What are we grading? UFC 330. I'm giving it a solid B. Now, that's not like a rewatchability. I'll say in the moments because I was probably, your mileage may vary with those two title fights, right? I was obviously very invested in the culminate because the Canada factor. I know a lot of people just didn't particularly care about this fight.

So I understand if like that fight being what it was, you just kind of drops it down like a whole letter grade or a half. Totally understand. And the main event, again, maybe I'm not rewatching it. But there was drama there. There was drama there. It was it played out as we expected. like it wasn't a like wildly oh my gosh what's happening fight but uh you know seeing islam do what

he has to do to beat these larger guys these very tricky opponents to me it's still fascinating to watch again i'm not going to put it on for friends and say oh this amazing fight you have to see it but in the moment i i i bought into it actually like the story and i got to tell people like for anyone who's like oh well islam's like he's only kind of you know obviously dominate jdm and against a trickier opponent in gary kind of whatever eeked it out as i think i eked it out is the word i would use and i'm fine with that. I still think he won pretty definitively. Like, as in no controversy,

not as in like he dominated him. Right. No controversy for me. But this is how it's going to be at welterweight guys with Islam. If he keeps staying up here and defending, which he probably will, I don't think he ever goes back down now. Like Michael Morales, listen, I love Michael Morales, and I think he beats Islam, but if he loses to Islam, this is what it's

going to look like. It's been a lot of body locking. It's a lot of pushing against the fans. We have a lot of staying heavy, trying to drain his opponent's gas tanks. And that's okay. If you want to see a guy, like Islam dominate in two weight classes. That's how it has to be. He cannot be the guy, like the more, somewhat more aggressive guy than he was at lightweight.

It's not possible against these larger guys. So, yeah, overall, Mike, I thought the car was really fun. Some really good finishes, some pretty decent back and forth fights, too. Like, I actually liked it. I think it met slightly for me, slightly surpassed expectation.

I guess I'll put it that way. I gave it a C plus because, I mean, really, look and it's this is not like downgrading like the prelim fighters because like that to me is what made it that but we say this all the time you can have like the worst card in the world but if the main event delivers then it actually like makes it you it actually makes it better like the islam dust and porier card from if memory serves me correctly that that new jersey card was awful um that was an awful card but then islam and dustin had a banger and you're just like, okay, that was kind of fun

because those two went out there and saved the card in a lot of respects, because that was a slog fest up until that fight. And this one was like really fun until we got to the title fights. And the Co-Maine just kind of went exactly the way I thought it was going to go. I was just like, even though the internet

and you had me doubting my read on this fight from literally the moment Julian Roberts had beat Amanda Lemos, I'm like, Dern's going to smoke her. I don't think this is competitive at all. She survived her, Mike. She survived. She definitely survived.

That fifth round was hominic Aldo. All right? She was, Duren was scared for her life with that furious ground of down, okay? She was scared for her life. She survived. But there was, I mean, there certainly was a little drama in the main event. And I did something that very few people in this world are going to do,

and I did it this morning. I went back and rewatched both of those fights. I didn't rewatch the rest of the car. I rewatched the title fights. Kind of on in the background, but I rewatch them. Don't do that. That's the advice I'll give you, especially back to back. Certainly do not do that.

It's tough. It's tough. I really wanted to watch the Coleman for one specific reason. And I was like, I saw a lot of people scoring the fight 48, 47. And I was like, where do we give Gillian two rounds? And I went back and rewatched it. I'm like, I don't know. Like, clearly you give it to the fifth.

But like the ending of the fourth was just like, she landed like three punches in like the last 10 seconds. And that was all she did that whole round besides getting punch in the face in every early exchange. Like she got tuned up at the start of every single round, except the fifth because she Dern just basically took the round off. And then I was like, I wanted to rewatch the main event because I wanted to just get a different level of watching it outside of a watch party and producing and just wanted to like totally focus on it and turning the commentary off and just watching it for what it was. and to me I felt confident 4847 and then I went back and rewatched and I'm like oh yeah this is definitely 48

47 I just can't give I could not I watched it just to see like I was like I want to find a way to give Islam this fourth round like I just have to see it and then I will rewatch it again I was like there's no way you can give him the fourth round he didn't do anything he literally didn't do a thing

and is like Gary had moments early and was at least trying to do stuff despite being held against the fence for four and a half minutes. So I was like, all right, that's a Gary round. And then round five was what it was. And Gary just kind of gave it away. And it wouldn't have mattered anyways because two of the judges gave round four to Islam anyways.

But it was just a really close competitive fight. And I'm very, very interested now in this Islam-Machachachem, Walterweight title run. I think he's going to have some problems with Carlos Pratchez. I think Michael Morales might be the nightmare for him. Like, he's literally fighting a light heavyweight. when he fights Michael Morouse. That is a big, frigging guy. So I am fascinated by both of those matchups,

and we'll talk about where these guys go in a moment. But let's go to Islam Makachchev, AKA, K, goes out there and wins. Again, I had a 48-47. Gary put up a good fight. I wish he needs to go back to the, I need to go hurt people style, at least a little bit, because he just kind of gave this one away last night. and Islam is the winner and still the champion

and now we continue on with the you know is he the goat where is he sit in the goat conversation and that's conversation we'll have obviously this week but we have two guys AK we have Michael Morales and we have Carlos Pratchez

if you talk to Islam's manager Ali Abdel Aziz he would choose neither of those guys he would choose Justin Gaichy to be the guy that would I will throw my computer out the window this would be worse than Kamar Usman getting the title shot in my eyes where are we going here who is the next guy or do we need something else to happen

before you can answer this question yeah I mean something else has to happen if it were up if it were up to me I'm throwing Islam Makkahchev in there with Michael Morales tomorrow you know that's that's what I want to say that's what I've wanted since Michael Marales's last win I was like just give him the title shot I know the timing is always wonky with Islam Makachev he has a pretty him and his team They're a pretty specific schedule. I respect that.

So I get it. Sometimes these matchups just can't be made at ideal times. I had no problem. Like I would have preferred, of course, Morales over Yuma Chado-Garry, but Yom Chado-Gerry, the timing made sense. You know, it's a very sellable fight. No problem. It's going to really hurt me of, like,

this Michael Morales title fight gets derail because he, he, Islam doesn't need to fight him. But you mentioned this whole goat conversation. I think the win over Inavichado-Gary, we were kind of talking about forward. I think he'd be like dominated him. We said it would, you know, considerably boost his profile. He won.

He won an impressive way. But for me, it still doesn't break him into like that. For me, a solid top six, top seven. He's getting there. Like, he's getting there. But it's just he needs guys like Michael Morales. He needs some of these other welterweight wins. But I think, like, they're going to make process and Morales fight, right?

Like, I just think that's the way it's going to work. I don't know if Morales can sit on the shelf longer waiting for Makajab again. if Makachov even fights again in 2026, which seems unlikely. So he has to fight. They're going to make a fight, Prachis, and then the winner of that hypothetical fight gets Islam. I'm with you with everything you just said. It should be Morales.

It should have been Morales last night, if we're being honest. That's how I felt about it. But I understood in giving it to Gary. And I also understand those who are saying, like, hey, Pratchez went out there and fought again and beat the soul out of JDM and did something that no one's ever done JDS. We just beat the brakes off of him and a fight that was not competitive.

And you can also go back and be like, well, Islam kind of stole his soul from him and just and kind of set the table for him. But at the same token, like Pratchez did what he did. And if it was like a neck and neck race, Prachis races ahead, right? Because he had the more recent win. So I understand that.

I also agree that if Islam is not the most active fighter, I know, because Islam does this all the time. I want to get back in there as soon as possible. and then he doesn't. And I don't know, really, because they wanted him on the white house card. They wanted him to fight Ilya, but he had the shoulder injury. So there's like things that are that continue to kind of keep him back. And I think for Islam, I think he has the right attitude.

Like get back in there as soon as possible. He said he wants to get back before Ramadan, which I believe starts like first week of February in 2027. So he's going to have to get in there in the next four or five months in order to do this. I think he can. And here's the thing. if he does, if he tells the UFC, if his management tells the UFC, I'm ready for December or January, book me. Morales is the odd man out and it sucks.

They're going to give it to Pratchez because Islam will push for it. Ali's been pushing for it as well saying like Pratchez deserves it more than Morales and there are some people who agree with that stance. That's fine. So I think I think Pratchez is going to get it. so I'll go with that, but Morales should get it. And if that's what happens, you can't bench Morales. I don't care who you throw him in there with. If you want to keep Jeremiah Wells happy, give him Jeremiah Wells and let Jeremiah kick him in the head or let Morales just run his ass over.

That's fine too. But give him some, just give him anybody he can, give him Leon Edwards. Like sacrifice Leon Edwards to the throat of Michael Morales just to keep him busy and get him. another win. But I think they're going to go with Pratchez. I think he's just going to get it because I think that's what Islam and his team are going to call for. And it's kind of a bummer, but it is what it is. So, but listen, that fight is very interesting too. Pratchez is interesting. Morales is like the most interesting fight for Islam right now in my opinion. So I hope we get to see it. And there you have it. Now on the other end, AK, this is where things get a bit interesting.

Eam Etrata Gary holds up his own, holds up, hangs in there, super competitive, and loses. I don't know where he goes from here, and then I realize

the UFC broadcast just gave it to us last night because headlining at the world's most famous meta-Apex, I believe it's in October, they announced it last night, no, let's not put Sean Brady at home in Philadelphia to compete, let's put him in the apex and let's have him fight Gabriel Bonfeme

and that is who Ian Gary is going to fight the winner of those two that's it that's the fight I like it I mean it makes mathematically makes sense odds on paper keep the machine moving you know but I have to I listen I have a follow-up I think after you know a while back I said it's going to sound crazy but like Max Holloway is going to take some time off and I think this was after the McConnell fight And like something weird's going to happen.

Because I didn't think that the third counter fight is going to happen. And he's going to end up fighting Ian Machado, Gary. I don't remember my exact reasoning behind this guy is go back to the UFC 329 episode. And I swear it made sense at the time. And I still think it's possible. I still think we don't see Max for a while. Ian Machado Gary takes the rest of the year off. And Ian ends up getting sort of a legend fight, right?

It's fighting a guy who's in regard as one of the best fighters of all time and has looked okay at 170. I know we don't view Max a welterweight, but I still think it's a weird, stupid thing that the UFC could put together. And when it gets announced, people are just like, what the hell?

Why are they doing this? But I'll be like, I kind of understand it. So I'm sticking with that, even though I still think there's like a weird outside shot that Max gets the G-G retirement fight. I still think that's possible, but I'm not making that formal case.

I will say very, very bizarre matchmaking. We don't see IG for a while. We don't see Hollow until next year. and somehow they end up messed up against each other. That's just my complete stab in the dark. Yeah. That's not going to happen. You said that last time, too, and I'm standing by.

And with Usen and Armaghamagamatoff too, because a lot of people are like, yeah, just do Uspen Max. I'm like, Max is not fighting this guy. Like, he's either fighting Connor or Gaichi. Like, he's in prize fighting mode. He gains, I don't know what he gains from beating Gary. Maybe he's still going to be, like, in line waiting. I don't know.

But yeah, Gary's in kind of a weird spot. at this point. So yeah, that'd be, that'd be, you're right. If they booked that fight, I'd be like, oh, that is super out of left field, but you have been sort of the UK European whisperer with these fighters. So, uh, you've, you've picked some good ones here. So, uh, do we even need to talk about what's next for McKenzie Dern? What do you mean, Mike? Uh, she's fighting Zhang Wei and there's literally no other fight. There's literally no other fight that makes sense. Come Like, I would love to see her fight Fatima Klein, but like, we can't, Fatima needs another win before she fights for the belt.

And I like to, I want Fatima to fight Tatiana Suarez. I think that's why it makes all the sense in the world. I would pick Fatima to win that fight. I would pick Fatima to beat McKenzie Duren right now, but I would like to see her one more time. I would pick her. Wow, the disrespect. It's not even disrespect. It's more respect for the other side of things.

She just beat an elite strawweight and Julian Robertson. How you? Son of a gun. Boy, when you were watching that fight, did you realize in like 45 seconds that Julian had no chance? No, I still thought she could get takedowns later on and somehow, and they should get, you know, offense from the top. But McKenzie Derns, boxing looked great.

Boxing footwork so much, so much more improved. I was reminded she's just, and we said this before, and we knew this, this was never a secret. She's just such a better athlete than Jillian. Yeah. The speed and, like, like power difference was, oh, it was evidence. It was evident.

And this is with Jillian coming down like a weight, like even though she was really like a 125er and she just physically was just could not match up with her. So that was tough to watch. But yeah, I don't know. I always kind of held out hope. But yeah, if she couldn't score, if she couldn't get takedowns or at least reversals, which she did a couple times and actually do like damage from top position, she had no chance.

She wasn't winning a striking battle. She wasn't going to obviously just straight up out grapple, McKenzie on the ground like if it came down to scrambles like that just wasn't going to happen right so yeah I don't mind I like you thinking Mike I do think Fatima Klein has to be in the mix obviously I actually think they give her Jillian I think they they they feed Jillian to her oh okay yeah I think Jillian had her shot listen I would love to like you know say oh Jillian's going to bounce back from this and get another tell shot in the future and maybe she does maybe she fights for a team of client pulls off a huge upset and gets a title fight but I think the team was like a minus 400 favorite in that

matchup. Yeah, after, after, she should just not fight with Tiba. But I think that's her only chance, right, to stay. She could fight Vienna Jandrova. She could fight, like, I get it. There's other veteran options. No, you're missing it. You're missing it.

You're missing it. You know it. Yeah, that's the one, man. I think I said, I think the problem was I thought Jillian was going to win. So last week, I think I said like Tyner versus that, what, Denise Coghoms and, yes. What's that Denise Cogos fighting? Denisi Gomes and someone winner.

This is terrible on my part. It's coming up soon. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to Nisi Gomes and her opponent. But, yeah, I said she gets the winner of that fight. So I'm not backing off on that. I'm not back off on that. But I think you're right.

I think a lot of fighters. Again, if you're Fatima or if you're, if you're Alexey Tannauer, and they're saying, hey, you've got to fight one more opponent before you get McKenzie. I think they're all like circling Gillian Robertson. Yeah. They're like a bunch of sharks right now. They're like, we'll fight her. We're going to see so many calls on Twitter over the next week.

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Dean Thomas goes on the post-fight show and basically is like, I'm not cornering fighters ever again after this. I told Julian I would take her as far as she can go and in like the nicest possible way without her saying like she was atrocious in the fight in his eyes. He was just like, I feel like I've taken her as far as she can go.

And like shout to Kate Scott because he kept like pressing him on it. And he was like, why? Because like even why? And then it got Wyden to like press on it a little bit. But what did you think of that? I thought that was super strange to choose that moment to do that. It just seemed very.

bizarre. It was a little Gilbert Burns, Mike Malotti. It was a little like, damn, like, okay, we get it. The Burns was hilarious, though. This was not hilarious. This is sad. I don't know. You know, listen, he's speaking. I'll say this. He's speaking in the moment.

I'm sure he'll go back on it if the right opportunity comes along. Like, yeah, he's just disappointed. I think he's disappointed with how things turned out. Because, you know, listen, as much as I sort of joke about how confident I was about Gillian having a chance, I bet they were a hundred times we're confident, right? You have to be. You have to win your M.A. world. I don't think Dean and Julian Robertson and the whole team were like, oh, man.

Like, we're the huge underdogs here. Let's just go in there and hope for the best. I think they probably really, really, really believe that she could win, probably by the message that we suggested. Like, oh, man, get a take down here, get a take down there, do some damage on the ground. You're the more aggressive fighter on the ground, usually. And when it didn't come close to unfolding that way, yeah,

you're going to have some feelings about it. And then they put a live microphone in front of your face. And I'm sure she's going to, listen, he's going to talk with Chilean in private. They're obviously he coaches her. I think they're, I would imagine they're friends as well. So, you know, things are set on fight. night, give it 48 hours. Let's see how everyone's feeling about it. I wouldn't take it too seriously. But yeah, very, very rough thing to hear at the end of the night for sure. Yeah. I mean,

Gillian seems just, I don't know, just her night was bad enough. And to do this for the world to see, just tough, man. Just I was not a fan of this. And I liked Dean a lot. And he was just like, maybe he'll take it back on tomorrow. Maybe he's just trying to get people to tune into his podcast. Like, I'm not a coach anymore. I'm the host of the Deep Waters podcast. Like, uh, It just not a great scene. Yeah, but I think Julian versus 10 hours a fight to make. I said that after 10 hours went over Mandelamo. She's like she's just got to fight him.

She's going to fight Julian next because Julian's going to lose the turn. And that is what happens. So let us move on to the lightweight division, AK. Jalen Turner is so back. Fights Cowie Fernandez of all the fights on the card. I think this is the closest line fight on the entire fight card. and Jalen Turner just dussed up Kaui Fernandez, who's on a good run in the best division in the sport.

And 38 seconds was all he needed to just obliterate Kaui Fernandez. Jalen Turner has found the Holy Spirit. He has found religion. He is in a great place because of it. And now he's 2 in 0 since coming back from his short nine-month retirement from the Ultimate Fighting Championship. He wants a top 15 guy. He didn't have a.

name much like Quill and Sal killed he didn't do the thing where he should have called O'Dusman Ramagamadoff who was actually in the crowd which would have made it even cooler where are we going with Jalen Turner after this impressive win I still think he should be a welterweight I don't know I can't I I didn't match make him excuse me I didn't I didn't match make for him at 170 but um I I still I don't know I just don't know if he can and maybe maybe like he said he's he's sort of changed his lifestyle is different now and he can just make 155 easier. He's just such a massive guy.

I just always feel like eventually he's going to catch up to him as he's moving up the ranks, you know, aiming to be a top 10 guy, top five guy. Talent is there, unquestionable. I just don't know why he can't do this at welterweight, which I would argue is also, like, I think the opportunity is there to move up over the next couple of years. A lightweight is just so deep and so tough. But I also always encourage fighters to, you know, compete at the weight classes that they're comfortable at that they feel best at.

if that's 155 for him, who am I to judge? I'm just going with, I think we need to see some other fighters shake out here, Mike. So I'm going with the Ferris Zium Axel Sola winner at UC Paris on September 5th. Because I think Ziam is ranked. And I imagine Solo would take that. No, he can't be really? He was on a run there before his recent loss, right? I mean, I'm a little bit deep.

But he was, he might have been ranked before he lost. Fores is not in the meta rankings. It's not a meta rankings. Let me see if he's in the media rankings. Not in the media rankings. I believe he was before he lost them. I could be wrong. I think he was. I'd have to look.

So I don't know if Jalen gets a guy again with a number and extra name right now. But again, it's hard to break into that top of the one of the hardest top of teens to break into, I would say, in all of it. Maybe the hardest. So yeah, I don't have an unoccupied name for him yet. Yeah, I went super lazy with this. Plus, it's been incredibly fun. Jalen Turner versus S. Svon Riebanovich.

Nice. But that's just so fun. I'll just do my Rebervich one now then. Mike Davis Mike Davis Oh, very fun I need to see that I think that fight would be so fun

Mike Davis obviously wants a stand-up guy next his nemesis Nerolo Aliyev is getting Grant Dawson so yeah, let's give Mike Davis let's get him back in there

at Cage too soon Mike Mike, Mike Davis please no more taking a year off between fights or whatever it is this keeps happening let's get you in there before the end of the year

against Rubinj yeah how about the upset king himself Dustin Stoltzvus by the way if you are the UFC and you are somewhat invested in Mansor Abdul Malik do you send him out of the company right now

do you let him get a new hold no no you're not like I'm not even saying like I'm not saying like just boot him forever but maybe just be like you're on a developmental deal for a little bit like let's go rebuild his confidence because

I don't know man he is he is puzzling to watch. There is some Amanda Lemosch there where it's just like, you know the skill is there. And then he just, he just falls off a cliff man.

Like if he can't, if his plan A doesn't work, there is no plan B. And he's just donezo. And Stoltz is just outdogged him. And I feel like you could just outdog him. And, you know,

just let him, but like put him on fight past promotions, CFFC, Fury. something like that. Let him just get a few wins. That's only if you're invested in him. He's just another body to fill cards.

Then truck them back out there against somebody and see what happens. But I think if you're trying to do something with him, I think he needs to develop more outside of the company. He just needs it. I think he got into the UFC so soon. He just physically he's there. but like as a complete fighter,

he's got so far to go, man. And I don't know, that's what I would do. Just be like, yo, go fight for CFFC for a couple of fights and then come back. I would have shared this thought like three or four years ago, Mike. But the thing is, I think they have enough sort of regional level guys on the roster that you can just kind of make those matchups happen in the UFC now. It's kind of a bummer to say. I remember the last time we really,

suggested something like this was with Chase Hooper, right? And it was different with Chase because he's just so young, right? I think he was in his early 20s when we were kind of like, oh man, like he's already fought six or seven tabs of the UFC. The results are a mix, like the talent's obviously there. Can we send him back to the regional? Obviously, they didn't do that. And they, you know, they managed to find matchups so Chase could go on a run, right? I think they can do the same with, with Mansour, for sure. I wish that they would have a structure like this. I wish the UFC had a system where they're like, yeah, we have all these sort of affiliated promotions.

Why don't we use them in this way and give those promotions a boost, give our fighters a little more room to breathe? I just don't know if they're willing to do that. I just know that factors into their planning. I think that's just another level of logistics that they're not interested in engaging in. And that's okay. Like I understand that. So like I said, because they have regional guys.

You want them to have a CFFC fight. There's probably a CFFC champion that he can fight on the roster like right now. But yeah, great stuff for Dessusufus. I was just looking at his history of upsets. Puna Soriano, when Puna was a middleweight, Mark Andre Baggio, and of course, last night, he was almost a five-to-one underdog. So, yeah, man, good for Dustin Stolt's Fis.

And by the way, I had no problem with this matchmaking. I think this was, like, the perfect matchmaking for for Mansour at this point of his career. I know people would be like, oh, like, he got, quote, exposed or he looked, like, because he got outdogged. Like, what does this mean for him? I'm like, the way he's kind of hyped up, If he couldn't put on a good performance against a veteran like Stolster,

it's very respectable, but also a guy with like a 3 and 6 record, I think heading in this night, 3 and 6, 3 and 7, now you get an idea of his level. It happens. It happens. And it's not the end for Menter, a lot of potential, great athlete. So I went with, Mike, I went with, oh, you're not going to like this. Another guy who's kind of up and coming. I did the lazy matchmaking year.

I'm going to Dante Johnson. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That dude, that dude drew me crazy. Oh, not. I'll get there at a second. I thought we might be trending towards a friends forever because you said another up-and-coming guy.

Damien Pinos. That's where I thought you were going to go. Yeah. I almost did. I almost did. Congratulations, Dustin. You pulled off a big upset. Now you're going to be on the other end of a minus 1,200 favorite.

Maybe he'll pull it off. That would be sick. Just be the upset king. People got to learn from this one, too. Like, I don't know. I think this affects the odds. Right. I think it greatly affects the odds the next Dustin Stoltz's fight

because he looked damn good. He looked damn good here. Speaking of looking damn good, shout out to Bray in the comments saying, A.K. Lee, the haircut is fire, brother. Yeah, thank you. Shout out to, shout out to Darrell at District Toronto Haircuts, guys.

If you're in the GTA, check out, check out District Toronto haircuts. Just, it's fresh. Is that an ad? Yeah, that's an ad. Daryl if you're out there, I want my 10 bucks. Dante Johnson, I would like to see, honestly, Dante Johnson versus Dustin Solstvus is probably the right choice.

Yeah. I think this is how they use Dustin, honestly. And if he managed to keep pulling off upsets, you know, great for him, man. Maybe, again, finally, maybe he gets to be the guy who gets a fight with a top 25 opponent or something like that. But I think right now they are seeing him as this mid-tier gatekeeper. And as Mr. Abdul Malik found out, not a stepping stone. Certainly not a stepping stone. Gatekeeper is accurate. Yeah. Dante Johnson drove like the whole I'm winning three belts thing. I'm like, bro. Come on. No. Can we walk before we, can we, can we crawl before we walk before we run? Like, like you were, you were on the struggle bus with Cody Brundage. You were getting, you were getting clipped up by Eric McConnell. And now we're going to be a three division champion. Can we, can we beat somebody like in the top 40 first before we start doing this? Has he fought at 170?

I know he said that he said his thing was not, it wasn't, it wasn't middle, light, heavy. it was, I want to drop down to 170 and then go back to middle weight. Light heavy weight. Has he fought 170? He was a heavy weight. No. Yeah. He has about a 170.

Yeah, but he thinks, Rogan asked if he could get to 170. He's like, yeah, I can get to 170. He goes, I want to win three belts. I'm like, bro. Oh, he's only 5'8. I mean, he's a thick guy, but he's only 5'8, so maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, Dante's out there, clobbered people and good for him. And that, and that's good.

but can we can we stop the three belts man come on beat beat somebody dream big yeah sure he sure did uh let's go to the wild card round okay i'm sorry i spoiled this for you mike i'm sorry i spoiled this for you last night i was so excited oh yeah it's so good but i'm just gonna give you the floor wild card let the people know i mine is way mine i actually really like um but yours is so much better like i was cruelly denied uh evil oslan versus evan Urslan. So cruelly denied, I can't even remember which one is not in the UFC anymore. It's Yvonne Arslan, I think, got released, right? Ebo is still around. Yeah, I thought you would know.

Great question. I think it's Ebo that is still on the roster. Either way, y'all know, oh, no, no, I think Ebo's out. I think Yvonne's still. Anyway, y'all know I was calling for Ebo-O-A-Los-Lan forever. They kept teasing it. They would put them on the same card, but not up against each other. That's okay. Matchmakers, you can redeem yourselves by doing the very, very, very obvious pick.

And this isn't even a joke. This just makes sense for both guys. Great performance by Lucas Fernando. Moving up from 185, looks good at light heavyweight. Obviously, Lucas Fernand. I'm going to see the comments pick up on this. Guys, very quickly comments. You guys are quick to respond.

Who am I going to match up Lucas Fernando with? As similarly experienced light heavyweight right now. I don't see if anyone pops in there. I'll give it, I'll give it 10 seconds. Some of people are looking, I've seen a lot of Fernando hype. People on the social media were loving. I know the media is going crazy over Fernando. Very fun striking affair.

Obviously, guys, Lucas Fernando is fighting Luke Fernandez next. Give me Lucas Fernando, Luke Fernandez. If I don't get this fight, Mike, honestly, I'll assume it's something personal in the matchmaking office. I'll assume it's something personal. Shee. It's right there. That's right there.

God, that's so good. It's right there. God, that's so good. My wild card selection, I mentioned this name earlier. And I, let me just, let me just say this.

The chat is going to lose their shit. They're not going to be happy with me. But I honestly think like this is a good little story, and I'm super curious to see how it plays out. Okay. Jeremiah Wells went out there and just did the thing, man. He was losing bad, badly, badly to Mick Debeck Oralby, a member of Team Heck.

I was very confident in that pick. Of all, like, the draft picks I had, this is the one I was, like, the most excited about. 39 years young, Jeremiah Wells, about to turn 40 in October. I just felt really good about Oral Bai winning this fight. And then Jeremiah Wells had a different plan. And he lays his gloves down and says, I'm done. Dot, dot, dot, dot. Unless I get a top 15 opponent.

And I love this. And you know what? I'm going to give it to him. I'm going to give him what he wants. Because, A.K., you could say what you want about Jeremiah Wells. Maybe he's not active enough and all this. Maybe he's up there in age. The one thing I can tell you about Jeremiah Wells, and I'm sure he shares the sentiment with a lot of UFC fighters.

He doesn't say no to fights. He'll fight the boogeyman. He just fought a boogeyman. So why not fight another boogeyman? Because someone has to fight this boogeyman because it seems like no one wants to fight him. So in the Rick Flair, I'm fighting till I lose tour of Jeremiah Wells. Jeremiah Wells will try to knock off the former Belator Welterweight champion Yaroslav Amosov. Because Yaroslav's got to fight somebody.

I know we want Yaroslav to get a higher name. And I understand that. He deserved. Yaroslav should have fought Sean Brady at UFC 330 last night. That was 100% the fight to make. It's not happening. I don't see a lot of these up-and-coming Walter Wade saying, yo, I'll fight him.

I don't think any of them are going to say it. Jeremiah Wells will say yes. And let's see. He's probably going to go out there and lose and then I can retire because he got his top 15 wish and then Yaroslav can move up. I want... I know. I told you people were going to be mad.

You knew it. You did. But Yaroslav needs to fight somebody and I feel like he's not going to fight anybody. So let's just chuck him in there with Jeremiah. there you go man and like this to me is like so funny there's no shot amiss off fights outside the rankings are you serious what what what what sort of leverage does he have what sort of leverage does he have come on man yeah i would watch it i'd watch it he'd lose but maybe he wouldn't maybe he up maybe he pulls off a whirl by and yamus up back to back come on man i think he might

i honestly think you might have nailed it i know people think you're crazy i actually I think this, I think, I actually think this is like the right pick. And honestly, nothing would be more MMA than Jeremiah Wells. And I don't like it. I don't like it. No, no, no. No, we should, it shouldn't have it, but it's going to. Nothing would be more MMA, Mike, than Jeremiah Wells passing up on this storybook moment to retire in his, in his home, just a few, a few, whatever, miles away from his hometown with a monster upset.

Did he get a bonus too? Sure did. $100,000 bonus. Like that, he really should have laid it down. right there. Like that would, that would have been great, but you're right. Instead, he's going to retire after getting either 30, 26th by Amosov or submitted by Amosov. Perfect. It's, it's very paramount plus era. Well done, Mike. Very paramount plus. Yeah. Listen, I want, I want Amosov to fight a top 10 dude too. But guys, this is not

PFL. We're living in a world where fighters could just be like, nah, not fighting them. And guess what? Every single one of them are going to say, nah, not fighting them. Do you want to see this man just sit on this? the sidelines and wait for a top 10 guy do you want to see him fight a bunch so there you go and apparently Dana white apparently for the first time in the last five years we're believing something Dana white said at the press conference because he's like no I'm not doing it um he's not hunter Campbell no hunter makes the call there not Dana and he's not Sean Shelby he's not McMander he is very too I feel like okay you know listen I want to see MSF fight so it's either he doesn't fight or he fights

Jeremiah Wells somewhat quickly. There you go. So, okay, you guys want to see him benched. There you go. He'll just sit on the bench and not fight. Mike, please, please. Don't scold. Don't scold. I'm not scolding. You guys want to see him. You guys want a world where Amosov just doesn't fight anybody. That's a fine world to live in. But I would rather see him fight people. So there you have it. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mintz offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal.

So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Up from payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. We all have to drink water.

And staying hydrated is one of the. simplest ways to feel your best. But come on. How is your relationship with water really? Are you getting enough from it? Is it satisfying you? Or is drinking it becoming a chore? Here's a tip to spice things up. Hint water. With delectable flavors like watermelon, Georgia peach, even lemon zest freeze. Hint is water that will make you desire water. No sugar, no sweeteners, no calories. It just goes to show. Sometimes the right hydration partner changes everything.

Try Hint. Available at drinkhint.com and in stores nationwide. All right, let's go to the peeps. The reaction to this is exactly what I thought it was going to be. But I think this is one of my greatest wildcard picks of all time. Tell them. Tell them. Mike, I love it.

Yeah. I'm into it. And Amazon was going to say, no, no, we won't. It'll be like, fine, I'll fight him. I just want to fight somebody. No one wants to fight me. All right. Holland agreed to fight Wells on IG at UFC Salt Lake City.

Holland's not ranked. He's in the stupid meta rankings. That's crazy, by the way. Holland should not be in the top 15 in World Trade. I'm sorry. I love Kevin Holland. Dude should not be ranked. Jared is on Pratchez.

Gary Brady-Bondfim winner, Morales, J-DM. Obviously, this is send your picks in right now. Um, Morales, J.DM, unfortunately. God, Jadiam, poor Jadim. Uh, Dernway Lee, Turner, Zinikov. Go. I like that. Yeah. Again, I think Chanka, like, we think we get a slow roll, Chonko, like, uh, touch.

If he beats Jail and Turner, I'd be up. Like him and, like, Cowie Fernandez would make a lot of sense. I'm fine with that. Like, Chonko versus Mike Davis would be like the kind of fight I would do. Yep. Uh, Stoltzis Pinos. He's with me there. Rievich Duncan, Cheedy Rude boy.

Energy versus Albazi. Dante Malcun. Oh, boy, that could get real sluggie. Gore versus Sirsichaeff. Ooh. Interesting. Magni versus Dalby. Have they not fought?

Wow. I think they haven't because I feel like this comes up on, onto the next one every now and then. I think every time I have the same reaction, have they not fought. So I should learn by now that, yes, they have not fought. Yeah. Tristan, Oralby versus Jake Matthews.

Poor Jake Matthews. Hate to be the guy fighting Oralby after that loss. Jeremiah Wells versus Sam Patterson. Patterson, he ranked, is he? No. Oh, maybe in the meta? No, Holland's rank, so maybe he did just lose, and the meta is really harsh. Sam just won, did he not?

Oh, he got back in the wind call. Oh, he beat Ponzi? Oh, yeah, that was like one of the saddest fights of the year. We all knew that was going to happen. I was thinking about the MVP fight. Thank goodness that's well in the rear view now. He's not ranked. He's not ranked.

But, you know, I would think he's like, I would put it like a hypothetical top 20, like, 17, 18 problems in that? Yeah. Amosov versus Morales, dude, Michael Morales would be, Maralos should probably not do that. So just throw that up there. And he's certainly not going to. If he's not, like, that's not the tune-up fight. He should be either fighting prodig, fighting for the belt.

That's just not the one. Let's see what else. Magni versus MVP. MVP is booked, isn't he? He is Muslim Salakov? Or did I just make that up? I probably just made that up. You made that up.

He's fighting a random middleweight. He is fighting. Oh, oh, wow. Nersulton, Ruzaboya. Oh, yes, that's right. In Paris. God. Eish.

Jalen Turner versus Tophique Mosaif. I thought about that. That would be such a fun matchup. RiuViz versus Moussafe would be fun. Messiah versus really a lot of dudes that would be really fun. Rapinoch, Islam versus Pratius, Ian Morales. Shafcott Usman. There's no, I mean,

Shafkot Usman would be super fun, but Usen, though, just not you're fighting Shafkot. Come on. Amosov versus Bilal or Leon. There's your welterweight match. Okay, okay.

Laying it out, laid it out at 170. I like that. O'Sman should be fighting Bilal. Like, just do that fight. Do you think? And Leon should be fighting

Jorge Mazadol. Like, what are we doing here? The two grudge matches. The most obvious fights. You have. They apparently have no interest in action. And I say they, I mean,

the matchmakers, the fighters themselves. I don't know what's going on. I just feel like no one's working hard to put the gears in motion for those matchups. We give the fans the matchups they want, BK. Joseph, Islam versus the Morales-Prochus winner, McKenzie versus Tatiana. Oh, God.

You can't. You can't. You can't. Wow, you just, those podcast listeners, Mike just tore those picks off the screen. There was more picks and he just stopped it. She finished loopie and that's a good win. That's like the ninth ranked fighter. Like good win, she needed to do that.

She beat Amanda Lemoche in truly the worst fight of 2025. It was horrendous. And she got rinsed by Zhang Wei Lee less than, like not that long ago. It was last February. Like, can we win a fight against like a top five fighter and then we can start talking about it? Like she goes and beats Fatima Klein, give her a title shot. I'm fine with it. but you can't, you've got to,

you gotta beat someone higher rank than, then Lupi Godinez. And we should tell people, I don't know if it'll work out. McKenzie said like she doesn't want to fight again for like six months or something. Till March. Like,

that's, that it's, like, it's Zhang Wei Lee or bust. And if it's not Zhang, that we have to do Tatiana versus Fatima Klein. And then the winner of that can, can earn a title shot.

Like there is, if it's not Zhang, there is no number one contender right now. Now, like, Gillian at least had a case. She had the longest winning streak. If it wasn't Zhang, she was the top choice. She hadn't fought for the belt. She had the long winning streak.

She got out all the records. Even though I knew how that fight was going to play out, she was the rifle one if it wasn't John. You can't do Suarez. You can't. She's got to get another win. What else we got? See, I'll start getting ready to fly to UFC Sacramento on Wednesday.

day. Have fun. Go for it. Not a bad card. I will be on the road as well. I will not be in Sacramento. I will be in Cleveland, well the yeah, Cleveland Ohio area. Swing rounds coming. Very excited. It's going to be a good time. What else we got? Charles Johnson versus question marks. Ooh, okay. Charles Johnson. What do we do with Charles Johnson? Man, this guy is just he just finds a way, man. Well, he's going to have one of the more memorable. Who is he not fought?

Has he fought Vincenzo Ursa yet? No. No? We could do Vincenzo. We got to be careful here because he has fought a lot of people. They have not fought. That makes a lot of sense. Who's Edgar Shira's fighting at Noche?

Edgar Shires is fighting. Sorry, guys. I'm just clacking away here on my keyboard. Edgar Chires is fighting Tim Elliott. If he beats Tim Elliott, I want to see that fight because those are two, like, ginormous flyweight fighting each other. And I kind of want to see two ginormous flywates fight fight to fight each other. Yeah. I think that's a fight that makes a lot of so.

Charles Justin's such an is. He just fights so often. And he wins, he wins some. He loses some. It's like impossible to rank him. Like, he's just, he breaks the flyweight rankings essentially. Yeah, I don't know. That's a very good question.

Question mark is the correct pick. I'm really not sure. But I think Mike is right. I think, yeah, I would love to see him in Chirres. It would be so fun. Masters, I'm not mad if you want to put Klein in for a title shot if Waley isn't back yet. I know we could say she probably needs a winner to, but her performances

have been great and she looks competitive. Klein has a better case to me than Suarez does, but I still wouldn't give it to her. I still, like, those two have to fight each other. Like, you can't just give either the title shot without those two fighting each other, in my opinion. You said you would favor Fatima Klein in a McKenzie-Dern matchup? Yes.

Not by much. I think Dern would open as the favorite. I think she'd be like a minus 170, but I think that line would close very quickly. Yeah. I'm just, boy, she's only 26,

Fatima Klein. The athleticism wouldn't be an issue. I think that's a big thing. I think that's why we keep talking about with McKenzie. Yeah, Fatim is a better striker, I think, although McKenzie is getting better.

Gotten better. She's a lot better. She looked good in the feet. Again, again, it wasn't against Jillian Robertson, you know, not exactly Anderson,

on the feet but still you know yeah last two wins are very convincing the angela hill tabith ritchie wins very convincing very convincing and those are veteran names like those are people with man i would pick her i would pick her there'd be some trepidation if like durn ended up being like a plus 150 dog i'd probably bet on durn right right um but i want to see i also think it would be a gigantic mistake to just chuck her into a title fight before she's ready um because I agree. Career, man. So that's why, like, give her,

give her Tatiana. If she beats Tatiana, like, there's no other discussion. She's undeniable. And same thing with Tatiana. Like, I know how good Tatiana is. So it's been,

that Lemos fight frustrated me to no end. Honestly, I didn't think she had a shot at Beadenzhang, and I was very public in that. But, like, they gave her the perfect bounce back fight, and she didn't deliver. And then the Godineas win was really good.

but like just beat Fatima man. Like she should want that fight. Tatiana should be on social media calling for that fight. Get her now. I have to imagine if Fatima pulled this off. She would be the youngest women's champion in UFC history. I have to imagine. I'm just very quickly glancing over.

Yeah. That would be. And I think by a margin. Because no, Rose when she won the title. already 30. I'm pretty sure she was already 30 no by the time. She was 25. Oh, the first no one fight.

This is in 2017. She won her. She was 25 and 115 days old. That's crazy. That's crazy. Okay. So she wouldn't be the youngest, but damn, okay. That's right. Respect to Rose. Shame, but don't see your fight as often these days, but man. Rose rules. Penas versus Allen is internet nonsense.

There's a lot of internet nonsense out there. Oh, is that what people are saying? Well, I mean, someone kind of reported in P and PNus is like, yeah, I'll do that. Oh, I saw. I wouldn't you do that? And then I went back and forth. I saw a lot of people saying Aaron Pico was fighting Yusuf Salal. He's obviously not fighting Yusuf Salal.

He's fighting Arlal. And by the way, that fights crazy. I was like, whoa, that seems like a pretty significant step up after beating the 17th and a half whole version of Patricia Pitbull. Come on, man. I don't know. Irman, Islam Pratchez, Dern, Zhang, or Klein. Turner versus the winner Moikano Ortega. I mean, Moikano would be a rematch.

Do you want to see that again? It didn't go well for Turner, right? It was going well for Turner, and then he decided to, then he decided to be Yuri Perashka and show mercy towards Moikano, and then Moikano finished him. Oh, yes. Dustin versus Torres Finney AKA

I love that the timing works out I love that the time because I don't know I think Finney's I think he's been you know doing social media drops like oh I'm on my way back on my way back to recovery because you know he did have an injury in his last fight I actually think that makes a lot of sense love that Riavich Manuel Torres Wildcar

Charles Johnson versus Tatsur Tyra you can book Charles Johnson against anyone there's no wrong answer they could book him against the guy outside the top 20 that's just what he did because he just tells the UFC like hey I want to fight like you got spots to fill in the card and then they give him an opponent he says yeah

I'm fine he's not he does not try to he's not trying to build a resume he honestly does not care he wants to go in fight get paychecks get $100,000 bonuses yeah Charles Johnson's doing all right uh do you see UFC showing Usen or Magamate up on the cam I guess they're poking at PFL knowing they're signing him by the way did you see that they didn't say current pfel champion they said last Bellator champion

on the lower third. Ouch. Ouch. In fairness, in fairness, the PFL title situation still like confuses me what they did with like, they kind of had the belt where people come over and then fight for like new belts. And then those. Yeah. Like they created some super super belts and stuff.

And then only like in the last year did they say, oh, now we're actually awarding like vacant PFL titles. Very strange handling of their belts. So I actually, I wouldn't be surprised me it wasn't just a snipe, but someone in the, like whoever the graphics. office was just like, I don't know what he is exactly. Like, I think he's the BFL champion. He's definitely the champion.

Yeah, he's never the PFL champion. He's one of the guys who actually had one and defended. Like, he's defended his PFL title multiple times. Some of the other people, like they have the belt, but I'm like, what's Corey Anderson? He's the light heavyweight champion. Is he? Yeah. Man, I just feel like it's, okay.

And he had to win a, he had to win a, he's the inaugural champion. I think so. It wasn't like he was the belt or champion and then they like made him the, see? Yeah, he had to win. a title fight in one. I don't blame the UFC for doing this, whether it was out of spite or sheer confusion. It was very funny. Enrique, the idea of Turner versus Taco Padilla lights and fire.

Damn. We're in a more fun UFC when Jailen Turner is fighting. I'm glad he came out over time. I mean, I was happy for him that I'm like, oh, cool, like a relatively young guy just being able to step away from the game. But if his life is different now and he's like he feels good fighting, hey, we feel good watching Jayland Turner fight. Yeah.

Any news on Hamzat Strickland? I would say December or January. Strickland's hurt, man. Like, he's injured. He's got that shoulder. He's bouncing back from him. So, yeah, it'll be a minute. But my big question is, what is going to headline 32?

We know 333. That card looks really fun. What is going to headline 332, AK? We're running out of options here. If they don't do Nunes, if they don't do Harrison Nunes, what in the world is going to headline that? out of it what where is it salt lake that's a hey we're paying you money come here but i think philly probably paid them too there's a lot of live p there's a lot of visit pa live pa ads and they kind of

just threw a bunch of do-do at the wall and hoping things would stick but like can you do valentina natty ice is the main event i don't think you can aspinall's not ready to come back he's not fighting solac city they'll probably like that they are Abu Dhabi announced it pretty much solidified to me that something that he's probably fighting gone at MSG. That'd be my guess. Vacant light heavyweight title fight? Magabat Anka Lai versus Al-Costa. Interim?

Oh, God. Okay. Strickland Shemai, I don't know. You've got to throw it. Ankylives got to be a part of it. Well, maybe they don't. Maybe they, you chucked Uri and do, like, an interim title fight after getting dusted by a one-legged Carlos Olberg? I don't, after showing mercy?

Any chance? Gathe Gavee back at 332? No. God, no. Gage could be playing like the internet invitational. He's got too much going on. Okay. Landa, you said, Kayla Harrison and Amanda, that's really,

Valentina, random title defense, but I mean, I just don't think that's kind of like. No. So what, here's what I think's going to happen. They're going to find, like, you know what they should do? They should do Prakis Barales and a five-round co-main event. Okay. They should do that.

What I think the main event could be. Salt Lake seems to be a perfect place for the break glass in case of emergency BMF title felt. Charles Olivera, Diego Lopez. That's fun. That's super fun. I kind of feel like that's where we're going to like. I mean,

there's literally nothing else that you can do. Because I think an interim title fight would be real stupid if it doesn't involve Magamankalaya. I don't know how the UFC keep. Well, I mean, I do know how they keep pulling this off, but just like booking by the seat of their pants, man. Booking by the seat of their pants. And I don't even think fully selling out events anymore,

but obviously the ticket prices are so high. They're just breaking gate records every time. Did they say they sold out Philly? I'm pretty sure they did, actually. Yeah, I think Dana said they broke the gate record by like $2 million. And they probably sold out too. I think it was legitimate sellout, right? Yeah, that's Philly's always going to sell out.

And it's the first time they'd been there in like seven years or something. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was a good, good place to go to for sure. 100%. Let's see. 205 Costa versus Sterling for the interim bout? No.

I don't think you could do that. Uri's like is a main event. Man light heavyweight's a weird division. Yeah. What a strange division right? Costa Yiri is like two pretty like popular dudes fighting. But like it's so silly to not throw a magabet in there. It's after Yuri's coming off of like a bad.

bad, bad loss in another championship appearance. And Magamad just dominated his fight even though it wasn't fun at all. And it would be an interim, right? It'd be like an interim title fight. They're not, apparently they're not stripping Holberg of the belt, right? No? No, they wouldn't. They wouldn't.

I mean, if they're going to do it, that's the one to do it and just say like, Carlos doesn't want to hold up the division anymore. Rashida Khalidi is asking, what on MSG, Mike? That's Aspinall, maybe? Aspinall got? I think it's going to be that. Okay. It seems to be where things are heading.

I hope so. And then maybe you do Valentina and Adi Ice as the co-main for that. Like that's, maybe you put that there. Or do you do Nunes Kayla as the co-main there? Oh, that might be, yeah. Maybe three title fights? If they could work it out, but man, they have so many cards now. I just, I don't know.

The White House, I feel like the ripples, the White House are still being filled. Like, I still feel like for the rest of the. Oh, for sure. Obviously kind of screwed up some of the. Maybe that was going to be seven title fights. Remember there's a time? Can you imagine where we do right now?

Moving on, Mike. Moving on. Sheesh. Who's going to headline him as she is? Yeah, that's what I would say. Yeah. It'll probably be aspirational gum. I think so.

Onk versus Koss is the only interim light every way fight you can make, I think. I mean, you can throw Sterling in there, but it's just not in the main event. You can't. But they could just do Yuri. and I think Gary's got to beat somebody else, man. I don't think you need to. Like, they should do Yuri versus Sterling. Yeah.

I don't know. I'm into that, man. Duke, a couple more. Just for the record, I never thought Ian was or would be Islam's tough as fight at Walterweight. I think Shaf got Amosov or Morales are, definitely not proches. Yeah, I mean, I think those guys will be tougher fights, but I think our question was, is Ian his toughest fight yet.

And it was a tough fight, guys. Yeah. It was a very tough fight. I came in with a hot take at like really breaking it down thinking like at least in my eyes from a stylistic perspective like this could be his best win. Like to me where it's like this is the toughest stylistic fight he has, especially up a weight class and a guy like Gary who just doesn't want to hurt people. He's just like a defensive guy who's long and rangy. I did not come away from that fight going like, oh, Ian Machado Gary didn't deserve to be in there with Islam. No, man.

I had another level of respect for Islam. Like not again, I said early in the show, not like elevating him. a huge jump in the pound for poundless but just man doing what he needs to do to beat bigger guys like it is really hard watch him like work those body locks work those transitions getting inside on imchada gary was extremely difficult like you could just see you can see uh Islam in his corner

really trying to figure it out how do we get in there without like eating a jab to the face without um you know eating a kick right um and uh you know shooting in for those single legs every time he did that wrist eating a knee to the jaw So I thought it was, like I said, a fascinating fight to watch. Maybe not the most fun fight, but certainly, again, evidence of Malkajab's greatness, not like, oh, I'm a Machado Gary was just like a dud opponent. I don't feel that way at all.

I think your premise stands, Mike. I still think, obviously, Volcanovsky, maybe Charles Olivera. Pass those two. I do think there's a strong case that Ian is like right up there with them as far as how difficult this fight was. Yeah. I get the Volk thing because he was the top. front fighter in the world, but he's also a featherweight moving up to fight a much larger guy. The Charles one, like, I get because Charles was the, you know, Charles wasn't even the champion at the time, but Charles wasn't, like, he was on such a run at the time.

But I remember, like, just to me, stylistically, I was like, Islam, unless Charles just does something bananas, like, Islam's gonna, just got to run him over. Just a horrible fight for Charles on paper, just really tough. So, but this one I was like, I was like, I'm picking Islam, but I'm not so sure. And it's very rare where I was like, eh, I'm not really sure about this one. So I don't know. I have to really sit down about it. But we got a super chat, Mike. Sheesh, Ais Boogie was Dern Roberts in the lowest level title fight we've seen.

Nah. Someone asked that on the watch party last night too. Nah, I don't think so. Let me, I'll also have to go dig back through here. But guys, we've had some stinkers, man. I guess if you mean level of talent, because, you know, Rose and Carlo was obviously a worst fight, but you could argue on paper, like, those are more, that those two are more skilled than McKenzie and Jillian Robertson. So I guess that's not what he's asking.

Like, on paper, is just one of the lowest low fights. It hurts me to say it. I mean, obviously, it's certainly in the conversation. Like, I think if you were to make a list, sorry, apologies to both McKenzie and Jillian Robertson. Yeah, probably in the top five. I think it's fair to ask that. I'm trying to look back like heavyweights and like dire heavyweight fights because guys let me tell you something. There was a time when the UFC was putting out some stanker heavyweight main events like long time ago.

It depends on how you define this too, right? Because like when we got asked us on the watch party, I asked Jedd, I was like, are we talking about like if you're looking at it as a video game and like one fighters rated this and another fighters rated this? Are we averaging the two numbers to decide this? Because if that's the case, it's Amanda Nunes versus Megan Anderson by a billion. Oh, wow. It just is. Like that's true. I mean, that's just what it is though.

Like, if Amanda was 100, Megan heading into that fight was like a 35. You know, that she had no, I mean, literally no chance of winning that fight. Like, even if Amanda slipped on a banana peel, she would have still kicked Megan Anderson

at some point in one. You know what I mean? So, like, I don't. It's really, I mean, we just kind of knew, you know? So I don't know. It's one of those things. It's, it's really,

Demetius Johnson versus Chris Cariosa. That's like, that's another one. Like Demetrius was just so far ahead. And Chris was like, why is he fighting in a title fight kind of a situation? Who asked us again? Who was this? Acebook, I tell you. You might have it.

I'm just very vaguely kind of running through this list of pedal fights right now. And then there's this one. There's Nico and Roxanne. Asterisk, right? Yeah, a weird one. Because that wasn't even supposed to be the fight until, day before. Not that,

not that like Nico. But it would have been it would have been Nico versus Sajara, U-Banks. Which it also would have been in consideration. Without question.

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, A, Spogie, you know what? You might be right. I might be, I might be a little too defensive of my girls here.

I'm not willing to say it's straight up. But yeah, on paper. Damn. Might be it. Might be, it's pretty low. It's pretty low.

Patty Gachie is on the list in the lowest level title fights? Well, Patty Gachie. Ah, no, but I also think Patty's good. Again, I'm a big Patty defender. You are, you are. I think he's so much better than people are giving credit for.

Like, I just think people hate his person. It's the same with Ian Machado-Garri. I think people hate him, Machado Gary's personality. Like, he's a really good fighter. I'll tell you what, man. Patty was more over than anybody else last night. When they showed him in the crowd before they showed Justin Gagie and good old Chazzy, which I thought was amazing, by the way.

I was, I popped loud when I saw Gaitchoo at Chazzy. That was the best. But Patty was up eating a cheese steak and every like he was doing the dance and all you saw was the visual of him with a cheese steak in his hand doing the patty dance and everybody behind him also doing the patty dance. Yeah, yeah. It's the say the thing, Bart. It's like he's the say the thing, Bart. Got you the Patty Dan. Do the Patty Dance and eat something. Like what a great gimmick. He honestly has one of the best gimmicks going in M.A. right now. He's like 100%. He's so over. Good. Put on, I think pretty exciting fights usually. Has his own, it's doing great with social media. Has his own YouTube channel, which does well. And then, yeah, between fights what's he do? He just eats a lot. And like you say, he does a little dance and people cheer.

Like, he's got it going, man. I mean, this is one of the biggest stars in UFC right now. Yeah. Take two more. Rapinoch with Ruffi, Armin being named a title Eliminator. Does that mean we're getting Patty and Ilya for a non-title fight? No, it doesn't mean anything because title eliminator announced it means nothing. Sorry, sorry.

It means nothing. It's probably a guaranteed title eliminator for Rufi if he goes out there in Coles, Armin. Like, they'll probably give it to him. I still don't know. I don't trust anything. I don't trust anything the UFC says when it goes to guarantee, whatever, whatever. But plus, like, Justin Gagie kind of holds the cards right now. He could just be like, no, do an interim title, whatever.

I think Armand's going to absolutely obliterate Marie Scherophie. I think it's just, you couldn't have picked a worst matchup. We'll end here. Can I ask your sentiments on Luke A? I feel like I'm the only one who feels a bit uncomfortable from when he had the brain bleed. I know he obviously cleared, but like when he curled up against Buckley. I think I'm going to say this as nicely as possible,

okay, because there are clearly improvements in Trayshon Gore's game. He is clearly, like, as Joe Rogan said, turned the corner. But it wasn't,

the point, he was just so kind of low level in a lot of ways that there's really nowhere to go from, but up. And he certainly has improved in a lot of, respects.

I think Vesente Luque should probably be done fist fighting. Like if Gilbert Burns looks at Mike Malat as like, dude, if I'm losing to this piece of shit, like I can't fight anymore. I think Vicente Luque has to like, be like, man, if I can't beat Treschen Gore at this point in my career, like I should probably maybe join join my boy Gilbert as like a co-manager or something. Like I just don't want to see him. yeah and look tracian battled through the the luke submission yeah made it through but he 30 he got

outside of that moment he got beat up by tracon gore last night i think there has to be a moment where it's like okay like what they're just going to feed him like they might feed him to like damien peanuts next like he's not going to win that fight don't put that out there in the universe i know but like this is what the ufc is going to do with him now so like i do you just walk walk away and get a damn they were good on you because he probably gets one based on what he's done before, right? The highest honor. He's in such a weird spot because I'm just trying to put myself in Luke Kay's shoes.

Obviously, he's been fighting for a long time. Like, in fight years, the dude is like 45 years old. I can't believe he's like 34. It's crazy. I was just what I'm saying. If you're him, like, you're just like, listen, I'm only 34. I'm only 34. Like, athletically speaking, I still feel like I have like a lot of juice left.

I had my moments. It's like when he has gore in that choke, in his mind, he's like, I'm 25 years old again. Like, I'm about to win this. I'm about to finish. It's fine. I'm about to win again. I'm about to add to my list of impressive finish. He has so many.

And he's going to go back and watch the tape and see that and say, ah, you know, if I just done this or if I just done this, I would have finished. Someone definitely needs to get in his ear, whoever his most trusted people are and obviously have a conversation with him. Because, yes, I'm of the camp that he should retire. almost 40 pro fights. Like forget his age. 34, absolutely. In real life terms, young man, plenty of life ahead of him. In fight terms, almost 40 pro fights, a lot of them in the UFC, a lot of them tough battles.

Yeah, I think this might be it for Oluke. And I don't know who can convince him because, again, I'm sure when he's in the gym, he feels great. There's moments in the fight where he feels amazing. But the end result is the end result. And I know he beat Calvin Gasolum, but listen, that's another conversation that probably needs to be had soon. So thank God the Calvin Gasselum, Belgaroo fight isn't happening. I'll say that. But yeah.

We got a super chat, Mike. I did. Where is Wei Lee? I couldn't tell you. Guys, she's living her life. I think she's made a lot of money fighting. She is, people saw that she had that crazy, like, that sort of hair change, makeup change. I think I believe that was for a TV show in China, if I'm not mistaken, a TV show or an ad.

So obviously she's doing other projects. She has nothing to prove, you know. her and McKenzie Dern are kind of both right. McKenzie Dern, she's like, I don't really feel like I need to fight Wally to prove I'm the champion right now. And like, yeah, I think that's okay. I think that's fair.

But at the same time, I think Zhang has it right that. She's like, I don't need to come back and fight McKenzie Dern. Like, that doesn't do anything for me. We know Zhang is probably the best strow rate of all time. If she wants to keep building her resume, cool. If she enjoys fighting, like get a nice paycheck from fighting,

cool. But if she is like, well, I feel like only I have, have one fight left and I'll just you know I'll pick and choose when the time is right it might not be McKenzie and it might not be anytime soon it might not be this year it might not be in 2027 and she might just be done and if that's it if she is more power to her for being able to walk away under those circumstances so yeah no clue when she fights again could be announced this year fingers crossed we would love that we discussed earlier

potential landing spots for her but could also just be a while could be a while before we see uh Zhang back in there yeah I mean look we can't the way here here's the way I officially view this Mackenzie's not going to be out here defending her belt three times a year. It's just not going to happen. She's taking like nine more months off. She wants to come back in March. So, what, seven, seven months. If it's not, if Waiteley ain't ready to come back by then,

then she can officially, McKenzie can have, the clouds will part. The sun will shine upon the gold belt on the shoulder of McKenzie Dern. Because she gave her time. She's given her time. McKenzie won the belt in October of last year. It's been 10 months. it's been 10 months and guess what? Zhang fought Valentina like three weeks after Dern won the belt.

So it's not like their time away was so far out of whack compared to the other. It's pretty much exactly the same time frame. So if we give Zhang another seven months and she's not back in there, then we can move on. The shadow goes away. If we get to a second title defense and she ain't ready to come back, then I agree 100% McKenzie Dern that she's like, okay, I'm the champion. there is no shadow, I don't need to beat her. So there you have it.

Plus if she's going to be either beating Fatima Klein or Tatyana's anyways, like that's a very good win. That's a very, very good win. Oh my God, what's this? Sunday. All right.

Very busy week ahead. By the way, the UFC will be in Sacramento in the card. The main event, heavyweight, Sergei Spivak versus Vitor Petrino, Reiner de Ritter, moving up to 205 to face Roman Delizé, who's returning to 205, Markell Maderos, Mason Jones, Carly Judice, on the card against Jaisla Chavez, Anthony Wint, who just fought on Contender Series, fighting Terence Chapman, the Fear FC Heavyweight champ, I believe, Jamal Emers, Larry and Douglas, that's a good one, Shemail Gadsiav, Kennedy, and Tuchu, Nazareth Hacquist versus Taco Padilla Marcio Barbosa Ryan Hughes

Gage Young Stan Dorisaneville Jackson McVeigh versus West Schultz and Chanel Dyer Elise Reed that's UFC Sacramento we have R.A.F.

next week the one year anniversary show Marab Sauto Jordan Burrow, Sean Brady and a whole bunch more I'll be out there for that swing round Sigel of SMAFighting.com

a lot more 330 talking more for AKI and Mike Keck we'll see you when we see you You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Picture it. Summer. You and your girls at your favorite patio bar.

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