MMA Fighting - Paige VanZant, Austin Vanderford Talk UFC 251, Dana White & Free Agency

Episode Date: July 17, 2020

MMA Fighting's Damon Martin speaks with Paige VanZant and Austin Vanderford about UFC 251, the experience of Fight Island, Dana White's post-fight comments following VanZant's first-round submission loss to Amanda Ribas, her upcoming free agency, and more.  Follow Damon Martin: @DamonMartin Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Damon Martin MMA fighting here with Paige Van Zant and her hubby. I always said UFC. Did you catch me there? Bellator Welch await. Austin, Van derver. Paige, Austin, how are you guys? We're doing great.

Doing good, buddy. So, first of all, let me ask you how you guys did with the travel, you know, to and from, Abu Dhabi. Obviously, you guys are home again. How are you guys feeling? I know that's a very, very long trip. Honestly, we're feeling okay. The jet lag definitely has gotten to us a little bit the last two days.

We're still trying to adjust. Yeah, absolutely. Before I get to the fight or anything else, how was the travel, the time difference? I mean, obviously I saw you guys talking, you know, on Instagram and things like that. But, I mean, you're fighting at such a weird time at the night. You have to adjust your sleep schedule. And you guys, I bet everybody pretty much flew out there, you know, relatively close to the event. So you didn't have a ton of time to adjust.

So how was that? For you, Paige, fighting, and obviously for you, Austin, I'm sure it's cornering her. It's also a bizarre experience when you're going out, walking out to a fight at 6 a.m. in the morning. It was definitely weird to adjust. I would say we didn't even get to adjust. There was, like, no adjustment whatsoever, because the fight was at such a weird time. So it was at 2 a.m. is when the fight card started. Obie-Dobby time.

I fought at 6 a.m. So we almost tried to stay on the U.S. time, but. We were there so early. It was almost impossible not to adjust because we were there almost 10 days. Yeah. I have no idea. Yeah. It was a different experience for sure.

And like definitely when we're back home now and our sleep's a little screwed up because when we were there, we were basically sleeping like all through the day and then staying up all night. But like our internal clocks were just so screwed up. But, you know, it was something that everyone had to deal with. and, you know, I still don't think that that necessarily makes it right for everyone. I think there's a few adjustments that the UFC could make to make things be a little more smooth for the athletes. But, yeah, it was definitely weird for sure. Yeah, Austin, let me ask you, you fought in Israel. I remember you were fighting Bellator.

Now, they had, they adjusted the times, right, for you guys. So you fought, like, normal time in Israel. You weren't fighting at, you know, 2 o'clock in the afternoon, weird like that. So I assume it wasn't nearly as severe when you did that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, my situation was completely different than this because, yeah, they catered. Bellator, you know, first and foremost looked after the athlete first, and then, you know, the fans and all that second as far as, you know, dealing with time.

And, you know, my opinion is a little biased because I'm a Bellator guy, but I think that's the correct. way to do it or at the very least make it a little more, run a little more smoothly for the athletes. You know, the timing was fine, but, you know, the way-ins and stuff, everything need to be on the same schedule as far as the media obligations and all that stuff. Yeah, absolutely. So, Paige, let me ask you, of course, we talked before the fight. You were so excited to get back in there. We saw the emotion as you walked out to the cage. Before we talk about the fight, like, what was it like for you on Fight Week? Because you've been gone for so long, you've been battling to come back from the arm injury. And we saw it. You had a lot of emotion

on your face when you walked out to the cage. You know, I did. And it was definitely just a crazy fight week and crazy experience. And obviously, the fight didn't go the way I anticipated. But for me, I just kind of wanted to, like, live in the moment because I didn't know what my future held. I didn't So that was my last UFC fight with the way, you know, maybe not on the last fight on my contract. I don't know if the UFC is going to resign me. It's still up in the air and we'll see what happens. If I end up going to another promotion that I feel values me a little bit higher, we just don't know. So it was really emotional.

And I had fought and trained so hard to get to that moment. And especially with the arm injury and with, you know, just the way. I felt my career trajectory was going. It was definitely extremely emotional. And I still enjoyed the moment. I enjoyed being out there. And I'm excited. I feel like I am so young.

I have so long to show off how talented I am. Yeah. Now, the fight itself, you knew Amanda Rebus was as legit as they get, which is exactly what you wanted. You told me that many times. This is the kind of fight you wanted. Very, very tough opponent.

Unfortunately, we didn't get to see a lot. You got that initial clinch. You seem to be doing okay. And then the takedown from there, and it was just a quick transition, one of those kind of things. But kind of walk me through what happened. Have you had a chance to go back and rewatch it?

Yeah, I definitely made a mistake in the fight. I played right into her game. This is the exact fight the U.S. you wanted. They kind of do this to people when they're on their last fight on their contract. They give them like the perfect style matchup. I went against somebody who was, you know, she's 10 and 1, even with me. I've almost been, you know,

had layoff calculating like three years. I've only been able to fight like once because I just keep getting injured. So obviously it was the very toughest opponent they could possibly give me for my, you know, for my one returning fight I had left. So I didn't play into what the UFC wanted. Of course, I still had confidence in myself going into it. Amanda was so talented. And I'm so excited to see where her career goes.

I think she's going to go very, very far in the Strawweight Division or the Flyweight Division or the flyway division, wherever she decides to say she's extremely talented, a high-level black belt. And, yeah, of course, I'm sad about the way it went, but also I feel like this is the first time in my entire career where, like, yeah, I definitely get emotional after losses. And most of the time I'll cry for a week, but this fight, I only cried for like an hour after the loss. And for me, it's like the first time in my entire life, I finally realized, like, the losses definitely don't define you. And I think it's because I have such an amazing team behind me who knows how hard I work and I know how hard I work. And I see these people like, gosh, George Madsville and Dominic Cruz, and I still consider them the very, very best in the world. And when they lose, it doesn't change that.

In my mind, their skill doesn't ever change based on one loss. And being 26, I do. I'm excited. You know what? It's like maybe I did have to hit rock bottom. And it's just going to make my story. My comeback story is that much greater coming off of a loss and an arm injuries. And I have 10 plus years to fight and show off how good I am.

For sure. I had to rewatch it today because, again, it's in the moment. It happens so fast. You're not really paying attention to the little things. But I noticed the arm, and correct me if I'm wrong here, the arm that she caught in the arm bar was your injury. arm. I had to go back and make sure I saw that right. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. Did that play a part? Again, not, not making sure, but like, did that play in your

impartial in that submission? It's hard to say. Honestly, I mean, yeah, it scares me any time I get arm barred on my, like, bad arm, but she had it locked in perfect. There was nothing else I could have done. I, you know, tried to stalk her. I tried to do all the escapes, but she had tucked my arm and had my glove behind her, you know. She just, she just, she just, did it so perfectly. She did it the way a high-level black belt would put the submission on and I got caught and there's absolutely no excuse. And I don't, if it would have been my left arm, she would have had it in and I would have tapped as well. It was one of those moments where obviously I've had three arm injuries and three surgeries. I am just thankful to the Lord, like so thankful to God. I didn't

break my arm again. Because I don't want to have surgery again. I kind of, you know, before the fight I had said, I might need to have one more arm surgery to feel 100%. But even through this, I do feel 100%. I'm hoping to sign a new fight promotion with somebody and fight this year if I can. There you go. Now, I know Paige, you've cornered Austin during his fights. Austin, I know, again, you coach and work with Paige every day, and you guys worked a lot during the quarantine as training partners.

How is it for you being her corner, you know, in that moment, in that fight? I mean, because there's so many emotions. You're a coach, but you're also her husband, so it's impossible for that not to hit you a little bit, I imagine. yeah man it is it's a trip man it's tough it's like uh you know the whole time i i must have been more nervous there than i get for myself to fight because there there was so many times like on the walk out there i was like damn man i just need to sit down like my legs feel weak i don't want to walk and and all this and it's just you know i'm so emotionally invested in into her and my wife you know it's just it's tough and and uh her arm and you know just making sure everything would go go good and go smooth

and that you know hopefully i'd done my part to to help her out and and all that and it's just it's tough man you know the leading up to the fight we're we're just waiting there and you know we you can feel the nerves you can you can sense like she's nervous i'm nervous you know it's a fight and in my heart I just wish so bad I could take it all away and just go and do it all for even though I know she's prepared and ready to do it you know it's just the the husband in me that wishes I could just take take it for and and you know and when when things are bad and going through the loss I wish I could take the burden on myself and not have to let her go through it but you know that's just part of the process and we we've all lost you know many times

and you just get better and you move on. But to answer your question, dude, it's so hard. It's so hard to be there, be a corner, and watch your wife. You're someone you care so much about. Go out there and do that. And I already know the answer to this question, awesome, but I'm going to ask it anyways, which is, you know, when you go into your own fight, there's a certain level of nervous energy,

anticipation, whatever it is. But I imagine it's that much worse when you're watching Pagefight. I'm sure, Paige, it was the same for you when you were, when you were in Austin's corner. Yeah, you know what? In the moment, I told him this before the fight. I always say it to work to watch him and corner him fight. But this time I was like, oh, my gosh, like, this is hard.

And I needed because I had been out of it for so long, my nerves were extra high. And the pressure was definitely on to this fight. So in the moment, it feels harder each time. It doesn't matter if he's fighting or if he's fine or if I'm. fighting and I get nervous. Yep. Yeah. So now with that being said, Paige, we talked beforehand and you knew going into this being the last fight on your

current deal that you were going to go into free agency, to test free agency, to see your value, to see your worth, and, you know, a lot of that was made into Fight Week. Obviously, it's a big topic because, of course, who you are. I'm sure you saw after the fight, Dana White's comments, Dana, you know, rarely misses a chance to, you know, kind of take a

dig at somebody if he can. So I got to ask your reaction to that. Is that just one of those things where you kind of just shake your end and say, expected it, or what was your reaction when you saw Dana, you know, saying, you know, you should definitely test free agency and, you know, the things you said about you after your fight? Um, you know, honestly, I didn't actually see specifically the quote or what he said. I try not to pay attention too much. Um, it's unfortunate because I feel like I have a really good relationship with Dana and I feel like, you know, I thought we were more of closer friends and he could, you know,

text me or call me or, you know, something to like, you know, something to, like, you know, to have a little bit of compassion and something to, like, communicate with me personally. But maybe he will. We just don't know. And I'm sure it's an uncomfortable situation. I've never spoken negatively about the UFC. And I'm not bitter about where I am in my career, bitter about the position that the UFC has put me in whatsoever.

I just, I felt like for myself, I wanted a test free agency. And that's not because I dislike the UFC or dislike Dana. anybody and I know the way my career has looked the last few years but I also know that talent that I have fought again you know the combined records of the people who have beat me is pretty high and you know losing to the people I have lost to it I still consider myself one of the best athletes in the world and I vow I know I'm going to be a champion and I know that I'll come back and keep fighting for many many years and I'm excited to see where my career takes me and if, you know,

seeing his comments, if what I'm hearing you say is he wants me a test for a agency, then hopefully they just let me go then. If that's how they feel, then they'll just let me, let me be free. Is there any part of you, you know,

you spoke out, now you're not alone in speaking out, you know, George Mazidol spoke out quite, you know, quite obviously John Jones has spoken out. And this has gone on for years. I mean,

this is, you know, this has gone on for a long time, fighter pay and those kind of issues. But do you feel like in some level, if you had not said anything and you just gone in a fight, your fight and you know you had the loss it is what it is you go in for agency there's no one you know

nothing's talking about it but it's almost like a retribution in a sense because you did speak out because you did you know speak your mind and you said numerous times in our interview i love the ufc they've done nothing but they've done nothing but i feel i i feel i'm worth more money i mean do you feel like that's kind of the retribution of speaking out it's kind of an unfortunate side effect of speaking out oh it totally is an unfortunate side effect and i just feel like the narrative has been pushed to where I don't like I feel like it's just the media almost twists the way that I say things and it's like oh page is complaining about pay I just think I want to be paid more and I think anybody should if you work at talk about if you work for a bank

no matter where you work if you feel you're undervalued there should be absolutely no shame in asking for a raise especially if you feel like you've done your time and you've put your work in And I've been in UFC for six years. And, you know, I mean, transparently, I lost this fight, obviously. I made $46,000 this fight. I haven't found 18 months. So I've made $46,000 in 18 months being, you know, people have said a UFC star. So I just feel like there's more out there for me.

And I've always said I could do absolutely anything I wanted in life. I went to college and I was 16. I've done TV work. I have auditions for all kinds of stuff, but I want to fight. And on the same breath, it has to be worth it because I am hurting myself and damaging myself for this sport.

Of course, I love the UFC, and I'll always love my career that I've had with them. But I don't know who's next, so we'll see. I know this is an impossibly tough question to ask can probably even tougher to answer because you're just now getting into free agency for the first time, really ever, because obviously you've been with the UFC since you were, since you were so young. Do you, would you go back to the UFC? Is that still an option? It's always an option. I mean, of course, I've never said anything negative about the UFC.

And that's completely the truth. I know the powerhouse that they are and I know how much they have to offer me still. So I'm waiting kind of for that phone call from my managers to see what the UFC says. We're supposed to know everything by Friday is what I've heard. What I've heard. But of course, it's still an option. And I think that I would love to hear what they have to say and what direction they want from me. And I'm just hoping for a lot of open communication with them and everybody else that comes my way. Yeah.

Now, Austin, for you, I know Bellator just restarted their schedule. obviously we got the car coming up next weekend already and there they're going to be running shows that you had a fight scheduled and then the pandemic hit so we got canceled so where are you at with Bellator in terms of you coming back can I imagine you're going to be booking something soon? Yeah yeah definitely

you know there was the possibility about July 24th but with going to Fight Island and being that first fight there and kind of the unknown about how smooth everything would run even to our return flight. Like we, our first initial return flight that we got was supposed to be July 19th. And I'm assuming that enough people kind of spoke up and said like, yo, we're not going if we're, we have to stay there for, you know, almost three weeks or whatever.

So that actually got switched like, I think we got the final confirmation like a day or two before we even left. So, you know, it was going to be kind of tough to. to be on that July 24th card, although I'm ready now, and once, you know, we got back here, I'm ready to fight. And that being said, if they have an opponent for that card,

he will take it. Yeah, so I am ready to go. But, yeah, before we left to head over to Abu Dhabi, we just didn't really know quite enough. So I think Bellator, you know, they'll do this card and everything will run good, and it'll be every weekend. So, you know, I've kind of got,

a little news and I can say that I will be fighting soon. I can't really divulge the details yet because I haven't signed anything. And, you know, in this sport, it's kind of nothing. Even once you sign something, it's not even quite such a stone. But I don't want to say much until I've at least signed something and all now. But I'm very ready to go. I'm training three times a day. And, you know, my weight isn't an issue at all.

and so yeah I'm ready to fight and I will be fighting you know within the next month for sure yeah now having gone through the fight island experience with the COVID testing and the quarantine I don't know exactly what Bellator is doing I got their press release today saying you know we're gonna you know safety and insecurity is mostly you know first and foremost no audience so you've kind of in a weird way gone through it you know as a cornerman with page are you did you feel like that's in a way maybe going to help you as you get ready to go back to because it is going to be kind of weird going to the testing going to you know fighting with no audience all that kind of stuff yeah uh i don't think it it'll be too weird it's it's pretty tough to uh it's pretty tough to break my

focus you know when i'm getting ready for a fight and and uh you know i've gone through the contender series i've you know wrestled my whole life and i'm used to you know wrestling wasn't necessarily the most popular sports so we didn't ever have you know packed arenas or anything like that. So, you know, none of that really bothers me, you know, when it's time to fight, it's time for me to go out there and hurt somebody and I'm focused on that. So, you know, but at the same time, it's good to get a little familiar with it as far as the testing, and we are in such a different part of time in our lives right now in the world and all that stuff. But as far as it being anything weird, not really, man.

I'm just going in there to fight, and, like I said, to go on and try to hurt somebody. Yeah. Now, I'll kind of do as a two-part question. I'll start with you also, and I'll go to Page. Obviously, you had to go through kind of a weird year this year with Bellasor basically being off for about five months, and, you know, missing a fight and, you know, potentially a second fight, depending on, you know, how your schedule would have gone. Can I assume that you want to get a couple more fights in this year,

and then I'll go back to page, because I know you kind of mentioned you'd like to get something signed and return before the end of the year as well? Yeah, definitely. I, man, I would like to fight every month if I could. And so, you know, so far my career, that's been the case where I haven't been hurt and I've been able to fight and to be off for like this amount of time without being hurt or anything. It's, it kind of sucks, you know, it's like, damn, I'm kind of wasting some time.

But I do truly feel like I've had time to develop even more and get better. and, you know, I'm 9-0 now. I had an amateur career as well, but in the whole grand scheme of things, I really haven't been fighting for all that long. So even just putting in time in the gym is very beneficial. I've got a lot of high-level training partners and people to work with,

and just all that experience is beneficial for me. So I really would, I'm hoping to get the fight at least, twice before the years up. Yeah, for me, I'm, of course, I want to fight as soon as possible. I just feel like that wasn't the fight. In my mind, I'm going to go ahead and delete that last fight and start over and

hopefully fight again as soon as possible, of course. I don't really know how long all this negotiation stuff goes, but I'm hoping quick because I definitely don't have any injuries. I don't even know that I got hit, so I'm ready to fight again. Yeah. Now, you mentioned with your free agency, you've got to manage. teams. They're not going to make you get into all the, you know, the ends and outs of who you're talking to or who you're going to talk to, those kind of things. But what do you want? Not terms of money. I'm not saying like a dollar amount, but like what is the most important thing to you in your next contract page? Because, you know, you're right now. You're in the prime of your career. But I also know that you've said, you know, you have other options out there. You say you want to eventually start a family, all those kind of thing of your career. What is the most important thing to you for the UFC or whatever promotion you fight for next? Yeah, honestly for me, and that's something I want to go into negotiation.

Whoever it's with, I want to know that they want me to be a part of their family. And I want to be, I want to work for them. I want to open like a relationship to where I can work. I don't know if that's like working at desk or doing reporting or doing behind the scenes work. I just, I have a passion for camera and TV work as well. So I would love if I could do more than just fight for a promotion. I ultimately want to be a part of the family. Yeah, absolutely.

I know you did. You did some commentary and things like that before. I know that's something you wanted to do more of, obviously, and it seems like that's something you could do. 100%. Yeah, and I did a few commentating jobs. I've done M1 Global. I've done the grappling show with Sean Wheelock,

and I still have such a good relationship with him. I really appreciate all the commentary work I've done. I do think I need a little bit more practice, and that's why I'm doing these smaller, like, grappling shows. And so I can just continue to get more versed as far as commentating. But TV and Tamara work is just so passion. It's such a big passion for me. I want to be able to feel like, I just don't feel like fighting is enough.

I want to do so much more. And I feel like I'm so talented. And that's one area that I really shine and passionate about. So that's what I kind of want to. I want to be able to fight for promotion, but also be a part of their family as well. Yeah. As I said, it goes beyond money. It also goes into a relationship.

One of the reasons why certain people fight for the UFC or, maybe certain people fight for Bellator comes down to that relationship, that's how you're treated and things like that. It goes beyond money. I know money's important, obviously. You're not going to do it for free. But, you know, it does go beyond that, I'd imagine. Oh, it definitely does.

And I feel like I've created such a bond with people who do work for the USC. And there are these bonds you create in relationships. You spend more time with the people like you fight for than people would think. So you do grow these relationships with people. And I'm excited to see where my future goes, and I truly don't know what's going to happen. And I already have to wait for the UFC to reach out to me first initially as far as the negotiation process. But just from rumors I heard, I think I'm just really excited to see the options that are out there. Yeah.

Now, Austin, I'm going to ask you a completely loaded question. As her husband and as a guy who fights for Bellator, what would you think of the prospect of maybe? I'm saying maybe, teaming up with patients. fighting under the same barely would that be cool would you enjoy that yeah i i prepared for this i knew this was uh coming so uh yeah you know if i'm gonna be completely honest of course that that's what i really that's what i hope for but at the same time uh you know we're a couple we're we're married we want to start a family and more than anything i just want uh the best the best situation for us and for her and, you know, the best situation for her to succeed and all that.

But if we're, you know, if we're talking about in a vacuum and all that, that's what I want her to fight for Bellastore for sure and be teamed up with me. And I think it would make things go really smooth. And I just love the idea of it. But definitely, you know, I want the best for her and you know and if the if the best is resigning with the usd then that's what we do but uh but i'm excited for her to go out there and and talk to people and for us to talk to people and you know get a feeler and all that yeah well page you know you know obviously beyond the fight stuff you know you know the other things you bring to the table and i imagine you know in a weird way i know it's not coming off the win you wanted but at the same time you got to be at least somewhat excited just to see what's out there you know

You don't know unless you actually do it. Again, maybe you go back to the UFC when it's all said and done. Maybe they come back to the table and say, hey, we really do want you to be here. But you want to find that out, right? Like, that's kind of the point. Oh, that was totally the point. And it's like, you know, I understand my performance this last weekend wasn't ideal. I know it didn't look good.

But at the same time, I know the value I have, and I know the name that I've built for myself and the brand that I've built. And I know how many people watch every time I fight. and I know my potential. So I think people, you know, who leave the UFC and they test for agency are sometimes on the end of their career. Well, for me, I'm still on the way up. So these promotions not only are investing in my brand, but they're also investing in my potential. Because although media likes to say that keeps like to question when I'm going to walk away from fighting, I mean, you can hear straight from me.

I'm not leaving fighting for many, many years. Yeah, I've talked about wanting kids, but we've seen success stories like McKinsey Dern, Michelle Waterson, all these other moms, they can have kids and come back and still be extremely successful. And I have 10 years of fighting left in me. Yeah. And there's also options now. That's the good thing. We know the Bellator is out there.

We know PFL is out there. We know one championships out there. We know other organizations are out there, which obviously gives you the chance to find out what else is out there beyond the UFC? Because since you were, like, when did you come to UFC? How, you were pretty young, you know. I was 19 when I signed and 21, I had my first fight. Yeah, so you have, you have no life outside of that.

So I'm sure it's just going to be nice to see what else is out there. A hundred percent. And it's cool to see, you know, with Austin fighting for Bellator. I can see the way that they've treated him and treated his career and the athlete. And just to be able to see, you know, him and other people fight for these promotions. I can, you know, talk to my friends and talk to people who fight for these other promotions and get it straight from the athlete and see how they feel their value, too, because I just feel like that's so important.

If they, I know the brand I have, but, you know, the way they value my husband, the way they value some of my friends who fight for their promotions, speaks to their, you know, authenticity of these organizations. And it's cool to finally be able to get all the facts and all the info really in front of me and weigh their value and see wearing up. Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned before with the arm.

So your arm is feeling good. You're confident in the free agency period, and you do want to fight again this year in terms of your healthiness. Oh, 100% fight again this year. In terms of healthfulness, in terms of, like, you know, passion and fire. I feel so good right now

and came out of the fight with absolutely no injuries. And super excited, hoping, you know, just fingers crossed that. and get something moving and groove in and get a fight as soon as possible. So, yeah, we'll see. Absolutely. Well, Austin, Paige, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

I'm glad you guys made it there and made it back safely. Austin, looking forward to finding out who you're fighting in the near future. Now I'm getting curious. I've got to find out who that is. So I'm looking forward to see you guys fight. And thank you so much for taking the time. I really do appreciate it. And Austin, I guess we'll have to catch up again when the fight actually gets announced.

Yeah, absolutely, man. Anytime. And we appreciate you so much, man. You do an awesome job. Oh, thanks so much, guys. We'll talk soon. Yes, thank you. All right, bye-bye. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.