MMA Fighting - Playing the Feud: Jon Jones vs. Tom Aspinall — Who Is Winning?

Episode Date: August 30, 2024

With UFC heavyweight champ Jon Jones and interim champ Tom Aspinall continuing to heat up their rivalry on social media, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew discuss the ongoing feud, what has been going on this week, who is winning and losing, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hello there, everybody. Surprise. We're here on a Friday, live on the M.A. Fighting YouTube channel. No, it is not a preview show. But yes, we're talking about a fight. Not one that has happened or perhaps will happen anytime soon,

but it appears that things have been ramping up between the UFC heavyweight champion John Jones and the interim heavyweight champion Tommy Aspinall over the last few weeks. And things have gotten even. more contentious over the past 72 hours or so. So we thought, you know what? Let's jump on here.

Let's talk about it with all of you. I am Mike Hack. And joining me to discuss all of this is Mr. No Gray area. Jedmishu. Welcome to this, I guess, inaugural episode of playing the feud, my friend. Buddy, we're not talking about John Jones right now.

We got to talk about that Mario Party ass music that just happened. Where did that come from? And why has it not been with us all of this time? It's so good. It's so good. I played it. And I was like, we're, this is it. This is the one we're using.

It was the best. Like we, yeah, no questions asked. I'm in such a better mood than I was when you hit me up like an hour ago. Like, hey, you talk about John Jones. Honestly, no. Well, sure. Why not? And that's why you're the perfect guy to have on here, Jed, because you have been,

you've been the man driving the, the gaslight John Jones train, if you will, pretty much everybody here watching this knows the history between john jones and tom assid all like john joe yeah i guess the or i guess the the lack of history to some extent and everybody here knows the history with with dana white putting his feet in the sand and and digging in about a fight between john jones versus steep ambiitchitch and rebooking this one despite less than one percent of the fight community actually wanting to see that fight after john got injured last year, but everybody else wants to see Jones versus Aspedal instead. And we'll get into specifics at a moment, but John has been saying a lot of things.

Dana White has been saying over the last month or so, he thinks John wants this fight. He thinks after the Steepa fight, if he wins, he thinks just from conversations he's had with John that he wants to fight Tom Aspedal. And Tom just continues to poke and prod and needle at the situation. So how are we feeling about things right now after this week in regards to the potential of this fight happening. Do you feel like we have some downhill momentum right now that we're going a little bit quicker here?

Or do you feel like there's no downhill? We're just staying the same. This fight's never happening, man. Like, it's just never happening. Everyone needs to understand this. And this isn't even the bit. Like, this isn't even the bit that I have coined of this fight isn't happening because John Jones is chicken.

Bok, mock, mock, mock, mock, mock. I frankly do believe that as part of it. but I just listen to the way he's talking, man. Like he went, first of all, like, I, there are people in your life that love you, John. The internet's not real. Like, just, it's okay.

Like, you could just not be this way to wake up to John had a tweet storm last night for the 18th time about the same subject when like, this doesn't have to exist, right? Like, it is a very, very easy way to. solve what is clearly bothering him. This is the old drill meme. I'm not, I'm not mad. Don't put it in the newspaper. I'm mad as he just continues to scream into this void.

If you want to remove all doubt about this, if you do not want to have anyone question this, you can just come out and be like, yeah, I'm fighting steepie and I'll fight Tom afterwards. Tom would no longer talk shit about you or be doing any of this. Everyone would be like, dope, let's get through this steep a thing. and then we can do the fight we care about. But he is very pointedly not doing it. And while many people, the traitor Eric Jackman included,

would have you believe that that is because this is a big galaxy brain promotional thing. And I'm not going to give the people what they want. It's not like the simplest answer is he's not doing it because he's not going to fight it. Because he just doesn't want to do it. And I don't, I have said from day one, that's fine, that I do not begrudge him saying my legacy,

is intact, and the risk versus reward is not worth it for this fight. Because if I beat Tom Aspinall, some of the stuff he's saying is true, right? Like if I beat Tom Aspinall, it's just another dude that I beat. And unless Tom Aspenol goes on to be a legendary heavyweight, which we can't know because we can't see the future, then it won't be that meaningful. I've done the meaningful thing by winning it heavyweight, and I will meaningfully beat the greatest heavyweight the U of C's ever seen. I got all of that makes sense. The part I've always had an issue with is him lying to me about it. And like this is just, it's just so silly.

Like everything about this is getting so very silly because he's not going to do it. And that's fine. But we should all collectively move on from this. Well, I mean, I think a lot of people have been feeling that way the whole time. But perhaps with a little bit of evidence, a little bit of receipts over the next few minutes. maybe minds will change. So let's let's talk about what has been happening this week because this all really started with Tom Aspinall doing an interview with Sports Bible, I believe. And one of the questions they asked John was, or Tom, excuse me, who is the champion of fight

dodging? And Tom Aspedal, of course, takes the bait and said this, fight dodging. That would have to be John Jones, wouldn't it? We know he's trying to fight old man Steepay. Well, he's going to fight Steepa. He's the fight Dodger around here. And then John comments on the post on Instagram and said, this dude literally has, I'm not saying it. So something somewhere, something somewhere every week. I'm flattered.

I absolutely guarantee he will not win more world championships than me. That's truly all that matters at the end of the day. There's been many champions. No one like me. I sleep good at night. Jed, how do you grade this exchange? because Tom didn't even post this. This wasn't a Tom Aspinall post.

This is a sports Bible post of a clip, but John responded in, well, the way that he did. It's awful. Like, that's the thing about this is like, one of the most frustrating parts of this entire experience is that John is bad at posting. Like, he is very bad at playing the dozens. And Tom is not like an unbelievable trash talker, but John is just so bad.

bat like he's so clearly mentally affected by it and then we'll repeatedly be like doesn't bother me i'm paying my kids tuition or whatever it's like okay then why are you posting 18 times in the middle of the night like why are you seeking out of from a whatever sports bible whoever it was to then comment on that on ig like yes tom is talking your name a lot because you're the champion dude that's exactly how this works It would frankly be super fucking weird. If Tom Asperon was like, you know who I'm really into fighting? I would really like to fight Alexander Volkov.

No, he's the interim champion. He wants to unify the belt. Him coming for you constantly is the price you pay of being champion. Like that is the deal. It is the tradeoff that you make for pay-per-view points. So it's very reasonable that you would do that, you know, everybody wants this fight to happen. And so Tom is then being prompted

and asked about it. And John, again, John could solve all of this. John could take all this away. He's like, yep, I am fighting Tom Aspinall after I beat Stepe. Those words have never come out of his mouth. He has never once said that. And again, you can interpret that

as he's just trying to keep his options open and he's trying to leverage this for the UFC to pay him more. UFC's not going to do it, man. I do not know if you are still living in this day and age under the belief that the UFC is going to pay a bunch of money to make this happen, you're a fool. You are just a fool or a child and very, very naive.

When Dana White was specifically asked that at the contender series, when John's whatever, the sixth iteration before this, I don't even remember how far back we are. And I think it was Oscar Willis even, who was like, John said that if the price is right,

he would fight Tom Asperall, you know, paraphrasing that. And Dan was like, that's just John being John. Dana completely blew the idea of paying these dudes more money because the UFC is never going to do it. When you hold all the cards,

you don't have to be like, I will pay an extra million dollar. They might pay him an extra $20,000. They're not going to pay him an extra $10 million. And so if that's what John's holding out for, which I believe is true, I do believe there's a price John would fight Tom Aspinall at. The UFC's never going to meet that price.

And that's why you're not hearing John say, I'll fight him after steep because he's just not going to fight him after Steppe. And so every time he posts, it makes him look worse. Only like the true dedicated John Jones stands can view anything he has done over the history of this feud, whatever it is, and be like, John's coming out smelling like roses here. Like, no, you are a psychopath if you think any of this has been good for John. Of course, Tom Aspinall responds in classic Tom Aspinall.

this is what Tom said on Instagram himself after that comment. John's right. He's won so many more world championships than me while using PEDs. And that was it. One sentence from Tom just does the job, man. I mean, he's just kind of really good at this, right? Like, he's just poking and prodding and needling. It's like, it's not the most mature conversation, but he's, he's doing it well.

He knows his enemy, I guess. Because he doesn't care. Like at a very basic level, a lot of being cool is just not being bothered by stuff. And like John is just so like nobody who is ever cool like ever has gone on a 23 tweet storm of I'm the I'm the best and I'm going to you guys are all just like nobody has ever done that who is cool. How many times has Nate Diaz ever tweeted like six times in a row and like written novels doing it? No, because, like, he's just Tom, Tom recognizes the situation for what it is. And he is holding those kind of cards of like, I can't make John fight me. And if John doesn't fight me, you know, ultimately it's not really going to affect his goat candidacy, like for a vast majority of people.

But I will come out like, what is the worst case scenario for Tom? Either he fights me or he doesn't fight me. And then there is at least I can just go around him like, he just refused to fight my ass. I want to fight him. The way you settle disputes is I would like to fist fight you, please. And John just won't do it. So if John fights him, he wins. And if John doesn't, you know, it's not as good as if he got to beat John Jones.

But it's not that bad to be like, John just literally ran away from me. So he's winning and John keeps playing into his hands. As soon as you saw this, Jed, and as soon as everybody saw this, you just knew John would do what you kind of laid out. He would go on a little bit of a tweet storm. he would respond and then he would answer questions and respond and I'm not going to read every single one of them but there are a couple of standouts that are part of this conversation and it's kind of in regards to his history and all of this one was the PED accusation and this is what he said yep worked my ass off to prove my innocence now Pico grams are legal in our sport honestly none of that will matter a few years from now when I'm covering my kids tuition

you mentioned that one earlier you guys still laughing about what happened at the office, I'm outside on a golf cart. So that's one thing. It doesn't even mean anything. What does that mean? I don't know. What is the you guys are still laughing about what happened in the, like truly, I do not know what he is trying to convey with that statement.

I'll tell you. I mean, I think he's just like, I don't care anymore. I mean, I'm in the golf golf cart cruising around right now, just live in the good life. I think that's what he's trying to convey. You don't say long, whatever that is. He so clearly cares. He cares so much. Here's the one, though, that caught my eye from John Jones, Jed,

because John was asked essentially, do you think you can beat this man in a fist fight? Do you think you can beat Tom Aspinall? Here's what he said. Bro, absolutely. I'm getting close to being in fight shape. I'm weighing in at 2.45 now. He probably cuts weight to get down to heavyweight.

The night we fought, he would probably weigh a solid 25 pounds more than me seven years younger and I would still whip his ass like I've done everyone else. You guys can go ahead and believe the hype. I'll keep doing what I've always done win. But then with that, Jed, the pendulum swings to the other side because John is told pretty much if you don't fight this man, your legacy is stained forever. And then John said, maybe I'll leave you with blue balls, but my legacy will be just fine. I've done way too much work in this game. There's people around the world that's been watching we fight since they can remember. he would have to go on to win like 10 championships at least in order for that to happen.

The work I put in, the body of work ain't getting touched, no time soon. What do you think? Like he started off one way, like, I'll whoop this dude's ass. And then the other one is, eh, maybe I'll just flirt with you. But then I'm just going to pull away at the last second. And this fight ain't happened. He's not going to fight him in. Like, he's just, unless the UFC is going to go be outside of their operating procedure for the

last 10 years. Because there's, I guess, a world where Dana White says, screw it, I'll open up an extra 10 figures for these people. That is just not realistic in my mind. But I mean, you know, I could be wrong about things, I suppose. But like, what is the UFC incentive to do that? Like, what is the incentive for Dana White to say, I will pay you 10 million more dollars to fight Tom Aspinall?

They don't care. That's like, that's probably not even. even a good business move for them. It's a cool fight that people would like, but is that going to sell 7 million pay-per-views? No, so they're just not going to do it. They will offer him a slight kick the same thing. Like, remember the deal Francis was offered?

Like, that the UFC was like, we offered him the most money ever. It was $8 million. It's like, we'll have you $8 million to do this. Like, is that all John's holding out? for? That doesn't seem like that's correct. So he's just not going to fight him, man. Like, if he was going to be about it, he'd be about it. And he's not. And that's, again, that's okay. I don't honestly have a huge issue with John being like, I'm at the end of my career. My legacy is really good. And that is a riskier fight than the value prop is, is reasonable for. Like, yes,

if the UFC, there's a way to say everything he's saying that isn't like really sniffing your own farts and tool baggy. But it's the exact opposite way of what John is doing. He can come out and be like, yeah, my legacy is set. And that is probably not worth it to me. If he keeps doing stuff,

maybe I would do it. But instead he's not. It's like, I'd still whip his ass. Prove it, man. That's it. That's all anyone wants. The only thing Tom Aspinall is asking of you is what every fighter asks of the champion of their division

and that they deserve is an opportunity to prove that they are the best. And if John choose not to do that, it's within his rights, but you don't have to be like this weird about it. Just be like, no, I'm good. So Dana coming out and saying, like I know he didn't straight up say,

hey, we'll pay John whatever he wants to make this happen. But Dana in his roundabout way did say, hey, when have we never made a fight that people have asked for? The only one we didn't get was the Francis fight because he has to take that. shot at Francis and that's just kind of where he's at right now. But he seems pretty adamant he can get this thing done and that he's willing to get it done if John beat Stepe. So does that give you any solace at all that we've gone beyond the whole

John Jones isn't afraid of anybody. John and Steepa is the greatest fight of all time. This one needs to happen. I don't know why anybody's talking about Tom Aspinall to. Hey, well, if people want to see it, we'll make it happen. When have we not made it happen? No. No, I don't. I don't. I Dana's saying stuff is meaningless. Dana says many things. And so it's just like a lot of fights that people wanted to happen didn't happen. You remember when for like six months he was like, Habib is not retired.

He does not retire. He's going to fight again. Well, we're all still waiting. Like he's, he's just doing. He is of the belief that John is going to willingly fight Tom Aspinall for the same pay. It's now,

which whatever your beliefs are, I cannot imagine. anyone honestly thinks that John will fight Tom for the same base pay he is making currently. Like he has explicitly stated, if they make me an offer, I can't refuse. I will do it. So, and Dana seems to be operating under the assumption that I think that'll happen, except for he's not. He's just saying it because Dana's dug in on the,

John Jones is not afraid of any man. He's the greatest human beings ever lived. And we should all bow in sanctity for his greatness. Like Dana's just stuck in on that world. But when push comes to shove, when the rubber hits the road, Dana's not going to do the things necessary to make this fight happen. That is my belief. So I asked earlier in a little bit of a poll.

They could have done John versus Francis. Not even when Francis was ready to leave the company because he fought his contract out. Three years prior to that, they were talking about doing that fight. And I got to tell you, a lot of people were interested. And somehow that fight just never came to be. so if they couldn't do it then, I don't know why they're doing it now. I remember talking to Francis and Gano before he fought Jarazini Rosenstrike on that return card. And he said he wanted to fight John Jones then.

That was in April of 2020 when he found out John was going to move up to heavyweight and he vacated the light heavyweight title, or at least was talking about it. So that was something that was sort of always on his mind. But we did have a poll. Who has won the feud? Tom Aspinall by a landslide. I believe it's 80% for Tom Aspinall. It seems like it's pretty obvious here, but who has been winning this feud so far?

Is there any case for John Jones here, Jed? And then we'll get to the bigger question. No, the only way John can win this feud is if he does fight Tom and beats him. And if he does, then terrific. And then he can have the world's greatest I told you so tour to end his career. And if that happens, cool, because as I've said from day one of this, prove me wrong, John. Like, that's it. What I want you to do is prove me wrong.

I hate when people like, I prove the doubters. I'll give you a pass. You'll probably be a betting favorite or something similar. I'll give you a pass if you prove. You can say that I proved you wrong. I overcome came all the troubles and tribulations in the world to get this victory. Fine. You'd say it, prove me wrong, but that's the only way you win this feud.

Ultimately, does that matter? Probably not. Like, for the next few years, the people who are in this sport will be like, I remember when John Jones ended his career, with a whimper that he pretended was a glorious applause, but he didn't fight Tom Aspen and that was the fight most people wanted and he ended his career by fighting an old retired firefighter. Instead, if he does that, that'll be this for the next couple years.

And then in 10 years, the sports memory is dog shit. Like, nobody remembers that kind of trash. So in 10 years, it'll just be a bunch of people looking at Wikipedia's and seeing the video clips of Dana White being like, This is the greatest fighter who has ever walked on two feet on this earth. And it'll be fine. Like his, his legacy is set, right?

He doesn't ever, he hadn't needed to fight for years, though. And he is one of the greatest fighters of all time. And many people will die on the hill that he is the greatest fighter of all time. None of this is all extra. So, but he will lose this feud unless he fights Tom Aspinall and beats him. It's the only way he can.

now win this feud. You've been very adamant that this fight doesn't happen, but we laid out some evidence here. It's August 30th, 2024 as we speak, this time next year, and you guys can vote on this as well. We do have a poll Jones versus Aspinall ever happen. This time next year, August 30th, 2025. Will this fight be on the books between John Jones and Tom Aspinall, or will it have already happened? Or is this going to be one of those fights we'll be talking about for years to come about

why is this not or why has this not happened? Is this going to historically be one of those fights that just got away and we never got, we never got to see? Yeah, this is a fight we're never going to see. It's never going to happen. And that's, again, I've made me a piece with it. It would be awesome if it happens. It won't be as awesome as if Steve A knocks out John, which would be the funniest thing.

Again, that's ever happened in the whole wide world. It will be the best joke the gods ever played on the sport of MMA. But assuming that very unlikely thing, doesn't happen. This just isn't, I will be extremely shocked because the only way in my mind that it happens is if the UFC decides to spend

way more money than they ever. You have heard Dana White bitch constantly about how expensive the sphere is, the sphere show. That it is $20 million is the price tag he has said for how expensive. And he has bitched constantly about an event he is promoting as the greatest live sporting event ever

costing $20 million is clearly bothersome to him. Do you think that he is going to spend $20 million to get John Jones to fight on Aspen all? I do not believe that is likely. Prove me wrong, Dana. Prove me wrong, John, that'd be great, but this fight just isn't happening. you asked me this in like April, I would have been like, no, we're not getting there. I'm getting closer to the other side right now.

And I can't explain it. Maybe I'm just too positive about it. I actually kind of feel like it's going to happen. Although, if Steepay does do the funny thing, which I don't even know how I would react to that besides laughing. And it would be the greatest post-flight show of all time. Steepie goes out and beats John. Tom has played this so very well and I didn't think he was actually even capable

of getting John's attention and not only has he gotten John's attention and maybe maybe like a little bit he's really gotten in now he is under he's gotten under John's skin a little bit and I actually thought that ignoring John was the way to go like John doesn't exist his belt doesn't exist his belt means nothing.

You call me the interim champion. I'm the actual champion. John is irrelevant and does not matter in this conversation because he's not an actual real champion. That's me. He didn't do that. He's doing not the complete opposite, but I think he's doing it so perfectly

that he's not doing it too much. He's not being sort of a troll about it, but he's not doing too little either. He's doing just enough. He's in that window right now where John, we've seen John flip-flop a little bit. We've seen him kind of get after it a little bit. So I think he's actually hitting the sweet spot right now.

And I didn't think he could, but I think he's done it. I think he's done it to the point where, and he's got a few more months to do this, to really get under John's skin and get to a point where John Jones shows up to Media Day in November and says, I'm going to smack this dude in the face. And John, Tom Aspedal's ass, better be at Madison Square Garden and not in an interim heavyweight title defense.

He needs to be sitting there and needs to hop into that octagon with John if he goes out there and beat Stepe. I don't even care. Pull a Michael Kiesa. Just jump over the railing and fly into that octagon. And if the lasting impression of UFC 309 in MSG is a bunch of security carrying Tom Aspinall out of the building trying to get towards John Jones, the UFC is going to make that fight.

And John is going to have some things to say about it. So I'm not like 100% in. I'm at 60% that this fight happens now. And I was at 0.01% back in April. I love your optimism. Also, so we're clear from day one, I said, this is the way that Tom needed to go was just calling him a chicken and getting, just making him mad.

And John wasn't really caring a lot when it was the, hey man, I respect you. I just want to get a chance. Oh, that was not the way to go at all. But the minute he, you know, posted that little video where he's like, I agree, Dana. John's the greatest fighter of all time. He leaves any room he gets into. Now if I could just get him into a room doing that thing, that immediately got John to start talking.

And the man, John's the king of ducking. Like, if I'm telling you, if this man just starts clucking like a chicken, John's going to lose his mind. And that's the only way to make this happen. It's still not going to happen because John is not a for again. John is, I mean, chickens can't be goats. John is afraid of him the whole bit. He's not afraid to fistfight someone because almost no professional fighters afraid to get into a fist fight with someone.

It is a risk reward calculus. And John does not believe the risk is worth the reward unless he is paid extravagantly for it. And so John may, maybe that number comes down, but I don't, I just don't think it's happening in. Like, I hope I'm wrong. I hope I am wrong. I think all of this has been sound and fury signifying nothing.

Well, there you have it. Right now, 78% of you say, no, this fight will not happen. 22% are with me that this fight will happen. We do have some super chats, pull them up real quick. And then quick, we'll answer a couple questions. John Jones, the middleweight killer. I've been talking since the whole time. You just aren't hearing.

I don't know what to tell you, man. Yeah. Michael, at what point does Dana change his tune? It seems like he's changing it at a time. touch, right? It's not like a full bore tune change, but at least towards his fight. But I think John being the greatest. What the tune is being towards. But yeah, if we're talking about this fight in particular and Tom being quote unquote deserving of it, the tune has changed a touch. But in terms of whether or not John, he views John is not just the goat, but the best pound for pound fighter

currently walking this earth right now. It's going to take steep a beaten John for that to happen. Yeah, pretty much. Like, he's, he's going to profess this as long as John Jones is still an option to fight for his promotion. For whatever reasons he is doing this, I have ideas, but I can't say, like, that I feel strongly it's any of them. Just, just Dana, Dana's picked this hill to be on and he's going to be on this hill

until it is untenable to live there anymore. now it's just like Dave and lazybed are having a little back and forth here live chat lazybed sucks appreciate the extra content boys lazy bed responds with Dave is over 40 with uncontrollable diarrhea Dave lazy bed spilling secrets still uses a binky uh this is like the new rivalry I love that Achilles junior lazy bed and Dave are both uncoordinated John Jones is the only person worse than New York Rick okay alia you're right John beat every legend in their I could argue with that statement. We'll get there.

Even assuming that statement, he hadn't done a lot of great shit since that period. Like, yes, a younger John Jones would absolutely accept this fight. That's not that John Jones we're talking about right now. Dave wants to know how much I would charge to record an intro for his YouTube channel. Hit me up. We'll talk. I've done a few.

Let's get to some of these. I don't know. I don't, I don't. How many paper reviews at John Jones versus Gondue? We don't know. We'll never know the answer to that question. The only, the only honest pay, paper view I think we will ever know the numbers to is John Jones versus Steepa. I think the UFC will find a way to make those numbers public, especially if they're good so that they can prove that we were all idiots.

All the fans are dumb that John Jones and Steepa was always the fight to make. Look at the gate. Look at the payper view buys. We were wrong. We were right. You were wrong. I think you can make a fair. that it was around half a million to 600K.

Because that's- Yeah, I bet it was, it might even been more than that, honestly. That, that event got so much attention. It really did. It could have,

but like, that's kind of the target, like, if you pull up when we did have numbers, like we have a pretty good baseline on what John pulls his numbers. Like the, the DC fights were his biggest,

were eight and like $8.50 or whatever. But that is a longstanding rival with a lot of heat. gone is like John is John's floor is probably a half a million just him on the card and with him coming back you probably got a little bit of a bump there but I doubt it got on 800 you know but it did very well the steep fight like I think it won't break a million but you could convince me that it will get to a million because John brings a big floor and steep a you know casual fans who are not kept up with the sport in five years can be like John Jones versus Stepe Meachich, man, in 2018, that fight would have been sick.

Like, hell yeah, because people kind of forget how time works. Yes. Chase, I find this entire heavyweight debacle hilarious. This fight means everything to Tom and nothing to John. Tom better pray. Stepe doesn't win because there will be an immediate rematch announced ASAP, which is probably not wrong. Chase, I think you got just the full blown miss of that. I do not think this fight is that.

meaningful to Tom it is meaningful because the opportunity to beat john jones is meaningful but tom has said it and i believe it when he says it that like i kind of don't care i want to be the undisputed heavyweight champion because it is my right i deserve that and it would be great to beat john because he is the guy who holds the belt and i would be great to beat him because of what that would mean but i don't think tom aspinall will lose a moment's sleep if John Jones never fights him. Like he will never care about this. I don't know that John will care either, honestly.

Like he cares now when people are digging in on him. But like ultimately, I doubt that that's going to be a huge thing for him. But I don't think Tom honestly gives a single shit about this as like a long-term thing. It's cherry on top of the Sunday for him. Yeah. If he can get John great, like who's going to say no to that? Lazy bed. The only way for Tom to get the John fight is if he beats Matt Hamill.

So maybe he's calling out the wrong. guy. You know, you got to get that win, so you have that card to play right now until they take that one away. No, he's undefeated, apparently. Rules don't matter. You're so right. Tom could go fight Spivak. Amazing.

I don't think Tom get will won. He wouldn't fight Spivak. That's not really because, again, the point is not that it wouldn't be good for him to get it. Obviously, it would. The point is that who's going to think more about this fight not happening? I don't think it's Tom. Tom just wants the belt, man.

Yeah. He wants the belt. Cyril Ghan is still a name. He has ever wanted the right to become the real champion. Which in pretty much every other situation, that guy has gotten the opportunity to become the actual champion. So like you said, either he fights John Jones in the biggest fight of his career. And if he wins, he's the champion. Or he doesn't fight John and he ends up becoming the champion anyways. So it's really a win-win for, for, for,

Tom at this point. So it's all good. It's all good. All right. I think we've exhausted this conversation for now. But you know what? We wanted to do a little something, you know? I am so fascinated by the John Jones stands of the world.

It's pretty funny. I just, I would love y'all to explain it to me because I told, like, John Jones is a great fighter. Absolutely. One of the very best fighters of all the time. I'll never argue that point. like the blind loyalty is I don't get like there's a dude who's like

Tom is the only one who wants this fight what do you mean no like a lot of the only people who want John versus Stepe is John Stepe Dana White and psychopaths like I don't I don't get it and like I just don't understand the blind loyalty it's it's kind of like that all the time and it goes and swings too.

Like, heading into UFC 304, everybody couldn't stand Belal Mohamed. No one defend this man, except for like the Anakin Florian team over there. No one defend this man. And now he's the champion. Shafkod does an interview with me and says, hey, the UFC offered me a fight in Salt Lake City at UFC 307.

I said yes, he had to decline because the timing was bad. And everyone took it as, oh, what an asshole. This guy is saying Balala should turn around and fight in two months, yada, yada, yada. This guy just won the belt. And like, he never said that. He did kind of throw in the clip like, you know, you did say you would fight anytime,

anywhere against anybody. And they offered you a fight. So I'm just saying what you said. But this is why the fight didn't happen. He didn't say you were scared. He didn't call him a chicken. He didn't say anything demeaning about Ballal. But he just said, hey, he was asked a question.

Have you been offered this fight? He said, yes, for UFC 307 in Salt Lake City. I said yes. He said the timing was off. Now it's not happening. and everyone has turned this into F. Shafkat for how dare you ask Belal Muhammad to turn around in two months when he never said that. So that stuff happens all the time to matter who we're talking about. It's just so baffly.

Like I don't particularly like John. I guess that maybe that's it was like I could I could accept blind loyalty for like Justin Gagey just because like every time you watch him fight it rocks. And so, okay. Well, like, a lot of John's fights haven't been that fun lately, so I don't get it. Appreciate you, Michael, be telling this rule. Gratch Alex L on the new job. Yes, congratulations Alex L. We'll do one more super chat because here's Chase.

Best way to explain my Jones blind loyalty is that arguably the best fighter to ever live is also one of the worst human beings alive. And that just makes me love John even more. I don't know one of the worst human beings alive. I don't believe he is a particularly good one, but that's an opinion. But he's like not in the realm of one of the worst human beings alive. That's a really weird stance for you though, Chase. You should talk to somebody about that.

It's wild, man. Hey, but hey, do you, my man. Being bad shouldn't make you like someone more. That's what happens at this point. It's insane. It feels poor DC, the family man, getting booed. And John's getting cheered like a hero after all of it. It's, it's hilarious.

It just feels like a thing that you have to explain to like a small child, but it's actually not cool to be a bad person. I don't know what to tell you, man, but you get to like who you like and support who you want to support. So that's cool. That's true. Well, we like all of you. We support all of you.

And we appreciate you for supporting us as well with the comments. We just decided to do this literally an hour ago. wing the whole thing pretty much. I just pulled up a couple of receipts and we just got after it and you guys chimed in perfectly with this conversation. And we'll revisit this a year from now to see if this fight actually happens or even if it's even if it's being discussed to happen. But the first things first, we need Dana to announce Jones versus Stipe.

We need this fight to happen and John needs to win. And that's, yeah, I mean, he did. He all but announced it. But yeah, so get excited. Get ready. And we'll see how this all. plays out everybody so uh follow along make sure you subscribe to the channel because you just never know when these videos are going to pop up and these discussions will happen we'll be doing a lot

more stuff like this on the youtube channel there might be a pretty fun video coming next week yes yes that is very true might want to check it out we might be filming it later today we just might and i think the timing will be perfect time the timing is so good i'm so happy with how this has worked out for us yes for jenn meshu i am mike heck this is the first episode of playing the feud. Have a good day, everybody. Get it? Because it's like playing the field. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.