MMA Fighting - Rankings Show: Dustin Poirier's Place In The LW Pantheon + Jed's Upset, O'Malley Haterade, More

Episode Date: March 14, 2024

Dustin Poirier continues to defy the MMA gods on his road to another potential UFC title shot, but where does he sit in the lightweight pantheon — and how would a championship change his legacy? Podcast pals Jed Meshew and Damon Martin join Shaun Al-Shatti this week to deep dive into 155 pounds around (36:30) and reach a surprising conclusion about Poirier in the aftermath of UFC 299. The gang also tackles the three-way debate muddying the top of the bantamweight division around (6:20) and whether MMA Fighting is being unfair to Sean O'Malley for not unanimously voting the champ as the consensus No. 1, ask which of the big wins by Jack Della Maddalena and Michael Page are more impactful to the welterweight division around (1:02:10), pour one out for a ex-UFC champ leaving the rankings around (1:16:15), plus much more. Follow Shaun Al-Shatti @ShaunAlShatti Follow Jed Meshew @JedKMeshew Follow Damon Martin @DamonMartin Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones

you love? The downloaded to Ghosts in the Machine Available now, only from Audible. Podcast Network. What is up, my friends? I hope y'all out there just having a great

day of fantastic little march here, just crushing goals, living life, loving life. This is the M.M.A. Fighting ranking show. I am Sean Al-Shadi. Apologies for the break between episodes here, but we are back. Oh, yes, we are back. And no AK today.

The Crittiport positivity actually out out there in New York, just gallivanting around on vacation. How dare he? But we got the rest of the gang here. Old friends joining us today, Jedmishu, Damon Martin, winding down. UFC 299 in the books. U.S.C. 300 on deck. We're officially on the

road to 300, gentlemen. How we doing, fellas. This UFC Vegas 88 erasure will not stand. Jeanne, on deck is a return to the world's most famous apex. 300 is a full month away. And let me tell you, boys and girls, if you haven't checked, go check the calendar. We got a lot of apexing in our future for the next few weeks. The price we pay for 299 and 300.

I'm on to pay it. But let's not pretend the 300 is right around the corner sheen. We got some time. Yeah, it's rough going, but, you know, we'll get through it. It's all, like it's like, like, like Jed said, you sacrifice these apex cards to the God so we could get to 300. Let me ask you, what's more egregious, gentlemen, AK missing this episode, daring to miss this episode, or Cody Brundage being on the UFC 300 pay-per-view card? Cody Brundage is fulfilling a time-honored traditional role of sacrificial lamb. I don't even remember who it was, but they fed some, some bozo to Sage Northcut at 200.

I'm sure somebody at 100 was also in a similar situation. And frankly, shouts to Cody Brundage, who is taking this in stride and tweeted out, y'all know, like, I'm not the problem here, right, guys? You don't need to come at me over this because he's done nothing wrong. Like, he's going to take that opportunity. I would caution him not to, but maybe this is better for him. I don't know. It's fine.

Whatever. 300's a month away. I'm more focused about the things we were talking about in the green room, Shaheen, because you got me all excited about the topics this week. First off, let me just say this, Jed Michoud.

I will not take this Enrique Marend, disrespect, a UFC 200, which by the way, that was a 29, 28 fight. He took a round from stage North God. So it wasn't full on. It was not good.

Yeah, it wasn't a full on. Yeah. It wasn't a full on just drubbing because he actually lost around to Enrique Marin was the name you were you were searching for there. I wasn't. I was comfortable never thinking of that name ever again. But thank you for now putting that. You've probably pushed out some other piece of significant information from my brain

so I can remember that Enrique Maren was the man they were trying to get Sage Northcut over with. You got to remember. And for people complaining about Bo Nickel on the main card, you got to remember there are three five round fights on this car. You know, you got the title fight. You got, you got the main event. You got Strawway. Okay. And you got Halloway and Gashy's also five rounds.

So you got to have some fight to speed up to pay per view. And so they put Bo Nickel and Cody Brundage, a fight that is almost surely going to end in the first round. They got to get something moving on there. You just sold me. Isn't it a six fight main card too? Like no. No, it's just five. It's just five.

Okay. Like down to five now. David, that was actually the best justification. for this that I have heard all week. Now, you literally just told me. You're right. Like, we need a squash match. There's going to be a bunch of long fights probably on this.

Yeah. Well done. Every other fight is fairly even. I mean, yes, we all understand that Cody and, and Figy Smalls could in very violently violently early. But every other fight is pretty even, so we don't know. That one we know. Could in violently early quotation marks.

Fellas, well, let's jump in because we have. much to hit. We have so much to discuss. And I want to start us off at the top. It's been a big stretch here for the bantam weights since the last time we spoke. Back to back pay per views now. Big bantam presence at the top of both of them. You had Marab to Alishvili, turn it Henry Sehudo into his own personal grappling dummy. And then you had Sean O'Malley out here putting up somewhat historic striking numbers on Cheeto Vera. It is all led to a very bizarre game of hot potato at the top of this phantomweight division. For us, at least. I don't know that the rest of the world has followed us, but for us, it has been a saga. After UFC 298, we all have Marab de Valisvili, Sean O'Malley,

patchy mix, big debate within the team. Marab ends up somehow emerging out of that, moving up to number one. People were very upset about it. How dare you put Marab at number one when he's not the UFC champion? He sold enough of us, though, to get there. But then now, right after it, UFC 29 happens. we have Sean O'Malley back at number one after this latest update. Literally by a single point, both times this happens, it was by a single point within our internal scoring metric. So like the closest version of this that you could possibly do, no one has come to a consensus on this.

We have three different people on this website, get number one votes between these three gentlemen. Somehow no one on this podcast has the UFC champion at number one. Jed, you and I, we are the two Morab votes on the team. Damon, you're with AK and Casey. You're on team patchy mix. So fellas, let's just start here because I've had people asking me this for like a month now. Are we just haters?

Are we ridiculous? What's happening here? Why would we be haters? I'm not surprised that there's some backlash because the MMA fandom, not the people who listen to this podcast, obviously, you are smart, handsome, well-educated fans. But the Cretans out there, the absolute goons and bozos, there are. There are many of those in the space and they're mouth-breathing idiots. So it doesn't shock me that there's backlash to anything. But I just don't know how you could take umbrage with any of the people we've ever ranked

at number one this week class, frankly. Like it is, I spent a ton of time agonizing over this particular ballot, this voting cycle for us because Sean Amount, it looked great. Like he looked unbelievable at UFC 299. He exceeded the expectations. I thought, I talked about it a bunch of different programs, so I won't go into it here. But I thought he could look good,

but even in looking good, I didn't think he could look that good. It was such an accomplishment in that performance. But at the same time, there seems to be a collective forgetting of literally the week before that fight, where everyone was like, yeah, Cheetah don't really deserve this.

Judo has one win, He just lost last year to Corey San A and he's like the number seven dude in the UFC rankings. He doesn't deserve this at all. And for some reason, the performance was so good, his star power's so good,

whatever you want to say about it. It's, hey, he looked so amazing. How is that not the best band-in-way in the world? Well, because he wasn't fighting the best opposition. Good opposition. I'm not here to talk trash about Cheetah Vera. What can be a difficult style match of all that, but it feels like everyone is just he's the UFC champion not there and he's getting there he took a

Sean O'Malley took a massive leap in my pound for pound rankings this month because now we is starting to build a resume but the facts of the matter for Sean O'Malley are he has three good wins in this weight class like that's it and and they're good wins don't get me wrong but they are his last three wins prior to this it was two it was the Aljo fight if you go rewatch that so worst algebra. It's always ever looked in his life. It's hilariously bad. And the Peoria Yon fight,

which I thought he lost. Competitive, great performance. I thought he lost. Yeah, but other than that, like, he has wins over no one in the organization. So this is a good run for him now. He goes out there and he wins again. I'd feel better about it.

And I almost put him in. I almost put him up top over MRAB. But I think MROB has a bit of a stronger resume overall. And even though I have huge questions coming off of $2.99 now, Coming off 298, I have no questions. It's like, yeah, Maraub's best bandway in the world. This is easy. Like, you put Sean O'Malley in there with him, he's going to kill him.

I have questions about that now, but I'm going to default to a slightly better resume, and I still, gun to my head would pick Marab to win that fight, even if I am much less confident today than I was last week. Damon, I am glad that we have you here on this show today because me and Jed, we both sort of see this division the same right now. We both have Marab number one and Sean number two. You don't even have that, though. You have Patchy Mix number one and then Marab number two and then Sean O'Malley number three.

So explain to me you're thinking your logic when you turned in the ballot this week. So a couple things. And I don't want to make, I don't want to turn this into like let me tear down Sean O'Malley because I don't mean it that one. What Jed said is correct. He has now three meaningful wins in this division. And you could argue the two meaningful wins are really what matter most. That's the fight with Al Jemaine and the fight with Piotr-Yon. Chito Vera, I have a ton of respect for Chito.

I don't want to turn this into, like, me bashing Chito Vera, but he was the number seven guy in the world. This reminds me, we put this in college football terms. This is like when Ohio State plays Penn State. And every year, Penn State's like number nine, Ohio State's like number two or three. And everyone's like, man, this is Penn State's year. They're really good. They got a great defense. They're going to come in and be competitive.

And then they get trounced. And then Penn State plays Michigan. And the same thing happens. Just couldn't help yourself. You just couldn't help yourself. How long were you waiting to just be like, I'm going to come in. I'm just going to fire shots at Penn State. Yeah, I'm taking down, taking up.

But you get what I'm saying. National Champions, Michigan. Yeah, the same thing. Have we stumbled upon something here? Juliana Pena, Penn State. There seems to be a common theme with things David Martin really does not like. How do you feel about Rock El Pennington? I like Rocky.

I have no problem with Rocky. Thoughts on Penns? You more of a pencil guy? I used to live in Pennsylvania. So I like Pennsylvania. I have nothing problem with that. No, that's not. You're not,

Penn State. Got it. There's no full on, there's no full on, you know, there's no full on, like Aaron Rogers' conspiracy theory going on here.

But yeah, like, so that's kind of what I equate this to. It's like he was the, Chino was the number seven guy. And O'Malley is legitimately one of the two or three best guys in the world. That's what should happen in that fight. And that's what's

happen every time Cheeto has fought a good quality top five band to wait. He lost to Josealdo. He lost to Corey Sanagan. He lost to Sean O'Malley. Nothing. I mean, was I impressed that Sean O'Malley, I mean,

Sean O'Malley did what I thought he was going to do. I mean, I had that, we talked about that when I did the podcast with Matt Brown the other day. He said, you know, uh, you know,

we learned a lot. And I said, I don't think we learned anything, really because I didn't think that was going to be a great fight. I thought Sean was going to do what he did. he went in there beat up. What we were mostly impressed by was Chita Vera surviving his chin. That's what we were impressed by.

Wasn't that Sean O'Malley? I would anything different than what we expected. I just somehow survived it. I would push back on that some, Damon. Like, yeah, we've seen Cheeto lose. We haven't seen Cheetos face get malformed. Like, Sean put a beating on him. Like even Corey Sanhagen in his response video where he is just shitting all over Cheeto,

it's go watch if you haven't. of funny. He's like, look, man, I beat Cheeto, but credit to O'Malley, he hit him a lot more and a lot harder than I did, which is just like, we've never seen a beat down like that put on it. No, no, you're right. You're right. You have it. But again, ultimately, it's still about level of competition. And Cheeto has never done well against the higher rank guys. The guys he has the big highlight real wins over are Frankie Edgar on his way out, Dominant Cruz on his way out, you know, Rob Font, who he beat the hell out of, but still couldn't put him away. So, yeah, like, I'm not, again, good at win.

I'm not taking away the win, but he beat the number nine guy. And to me, Marab taking down and tossing Henry Suhudo around like a sack of potatoes, an Olympic gold medalist in wrestling and doing what he did and basically styling on Henry, which was unbelievable to do that. Like, he did, he was just like, he was having moments with Mark Zuckerberg and just like playing around with him at that point. He's like playing with his food. And then, yes, I am Apache mixed. I fully admit that.

But my thing with patchy mix is not, listen, I understand the immediate pushback. I think we're going to lead here a little bit with you. Like I do, I do. The immediate, let me just say real quick, with me, the patchy mix thing feels like the most, I don't know if inexcusable is the word, because I don't know that any of these is inexcusable, but it feels like the most questionable of the three to put number one just based on strength of competition. I respect it. Like that's just like I'm just doing this because I want to be different.

I want to be a rebel. It's not. It wants to send a message. I waffle between Marab and Patchy. Like I don't really have an argument if he put Marab over Apache. I really don't. Like that's not. My thing with Patchy is that he has beaten good competition.

I do believe guys like Rafian Stats and Magamad Megamatoff and Sergio Pettis are quality, quality wins. But the way the patchy mix is doing it is part of the reason why he's number one. He's not just beating these guys. absolutely beating the brakes off these guys and finishing them, the knee on Rofihan Stats, just dominating and like Sergio Pettus went out and like the run that Sergio was on and was super impressive, taking out Patricio Pitbull, Juan Archelette, all the things he had done. And then Patchy just goes out there and makes it look like basically what Sean O'Malley did to

Cheetah Verr except he did it in an even more dominant fashion because you put him away inside two rounds. I think that's part of the reason why Patchy is there. Now, will Patchy start running into problems? Absolutely. I'm giving, this is kind of like what the whole Corey Anderson thing when I put him in number one for like a month. Because at that point, there wasn't a UFC guy that really established themselves as a champion at that moment and really been dominating. Patchy's kind of living on borrowed time.

He's fighting in May against the guy he already beat. He already guillotine choked magabed magabat off a year and a half or two years ago. So I don't know that he's really going to gain that much, much like I didn't think Sean O'Malley would gain that much for beating Chita Vera. So I'm putting, I'm giving Patchy mixes flowers right now while he can get them because the reality is unless the PFL goes out and signs some actual Banteways to fight him. There's only so much further he can go. And Marab is probably going to fight O'Malley. That's clearly going to end up being the number one bantamate. You got Umar probably fighting Corey Sanhagan.

That's going to bump somebody up. So I'm giving Patchy his flowers while I can because he is kind of living on borrowed time. I will also say in defense of Damon, because I previously had patchy at number one. I was sort of adopting the stance of I'm probably just going to cycle through people who win to move them to number one until these dudes fight each other. When Al Jemaine Sterling competes EOC 300, I suspect that that means we will drop him from our Bantamweight ballots, at which point in time, Sean O'Malley will have two wins over guys that are ranked in our rankings at Bantamweight. The same number Patchy has, and then Patchy will also have the Kioji win. I think most people have moved Kioji out of Bantamawait into their flyweight rankings at this point.

I know he is ranked for us. So I think it's honestly defensible. I was just so impressed. And let me pull up my rankings from last cycle. Because I think I still had passion involved. Because he booted out an all time great from the division. It seems odd to me. Hey, sucks to suck, bro.

Like fight the other, fight your contemporaries and not try. to fight Ilya or Ryan Garcia or whatever dog show you're trying to do bro. Unrelated discussion, but yes. Yeah. And let's also not forget about Magamad, Magamatov is a guy who has two fights, very good fights with Peter Yan, has a winner of Peter Yan. You can talk about controversy it is, but he's a good fighter.

It's a quality win. It's a quality one. And he gets another one's quality one, you know, so yeah. I had patchy above Sean heading into 299, and then Sean's performance was impressive enough to jump that. And like I said, I was right there with you. Marab. I almost put him above Marab. I think if you have them above Marab, I have no issues with that. I don't have any issues that impatchy number one. It's just it's a really good division and this will

settle itself out in time because Sean and Marab will fight and Patchy will inevitably sort of just fall down because that's the fate of people who compete in Bellator. They can't, Patchy was riding high off the Grand Prix win and the quality opposition, but those numbers are just going to fall for and so naturally this will sort itself out over time. I don't have any issues with anyone's rankings for this, for pantomweight this go-around. I think everyone did fine. It's really just a bizarre situation. I can't remember.

We've been doing these now, like I think two, two years, three years. And I cannot remember a division where it is so split up, so fractured at the top outside of like light heavyweight just not having an actual champion, that type of thing where like somebody just leaves and it leaves a void for everybody. that didn't happen. Was it? Yeah, I was going to say, maybe lightweight when Habib left. I feel like there was, there was some open spaces around there,

but it's tough. I think everyone kind of unanimously coalesced around Dustin Porreier for the most part. Because he was sort of the guy. Like, it's just such a weird, weird space right now. The Iliate Tapuria thing is funny to me, though, because I wrote a column on Sunday about this. I tweeted about it on Saturday,

saying, whatsoever. I think this is extremely dumb. I can understand why Sean wants it, certainly. It's a bigger fight than the Morab fight, and it gets you a different level of prestige if you're that two-division champion. But I have zero interest in seeing two champions with a combined one title defense fight in a super fight like this. That to me, we have already cheapen this to such a nth degree that like we, what are we doing at this point if we actually do this fight? And I was stunned by the pushback that I got because I got significant and pushback of like, you're crazy,

you need to jump on these opportunities when they come. You can't sit around and wait because this might not be here forever. You have to make this fight now when you can make it. And it's just, what am I hearing when you're telling me that? You have to make this fight between brand new champions now? What are we talking about? Am I going crazy?

My own crazy pills here with this take? Because I don't feel like I am. People are just dumb. They're just dumb. There's a reason the UFC puts belts on, posters for pay-per-views because people are dumb and they see shiny objects and ooh they're two shiny objects twice as good uh they're just i there's no defense to it if that's you the way you choose to live your life i can't stop you um just have a little more subtlety i don't know like how anyone

doesn't want to watch marab fight sean next outside of the belt thing like that's just the fight These are arguably the two best dudes in their weight class, very contrasting styles. They have a natural bit of beef built into it. They are the same weight and not 10 pounds plus different. It's so clear to me. And if you want it, it's just purely, you're an infant. You're just an infant and you grew up on the Connor McGregor two champion thing. And this is the only way you know how to watch your action figures play together

is to collect all the belts like their Pokemon and grow up, Peter Pan. Like, Tocula, it's not what we're doing here. I just, to me, there's so many questions that I need to be answered this Bantamweight division right now. We just opened the show talking about them. Like how, I understand Sean versus Ilya in Spain sounds cool, strikers. Like, it'll be very fun, obviously. But like, how can you not look at this division right now,

this bantamweight division, and want those questions answered before anything else? Unless you're just purely a Sean O'Malley fan who's like, well, he might lose to Marab. And if he loses to Ilya, he still has the belt. That I can sort of see your justification for it. But that's it. I don't really care about your opinion at that point because that's not. That's the only answer. And it's infuriating.

It would be the worst fight. Honestly, I think it'd be the worst fight I've ever, ever been made. Like these, because you said one title defense, it's not even that. Like, you could sell me in a world where they have one title defense, but they've just been like Aaron Blanchfield beating the soul out of everyone else in the weight class. So they've already kind of defended the belt preempting. No, these two dudes have a million viable contenders in two of the five best weight classes in the entire sport.

And then you would just be shoehorning it. It is entirely a by stating you don't know when you're going to get this. But you know what that means? It means we didn't deserve to get it later. If you are forcing the issue now, it means that either or both of them were not good enough to make this happen later. and you are just going for instant gratification because you are an infant. And that's not how the world works. Grow up.

Yeah, too, by the way, I want to give Jed credit here and just go and say, you shut your mouth when you're talking to me, great pull. And I grow up, couch. I had to throw that out here. I use that phrase probably once a week. I love it. I use shut up when you're talking to me, like pretty often. That's one of my favorite quotes as well.

Yeah, I don't get it. I still live in a world and I know I'm in the fantasy world of MMA where I still like seeing the best fight the best. Like I know I'm in the minority of people who are actually looking forward to Leon Edwards fighting Bilal Muhammad because Bilal Muhammad is clearly the number two guy in the division. And I know I'm in the minority with that. But I don't know how I'm in the minority of like not wanting to see a brand new champion who just got his belt fight another brand new champion who just got his belt and beat the brakes off the number nine guy in the. division. Like, that's not legendary. That's just throwing something together for the sake of throwing it together. Marab de Wallis really deserves the title shot. And now, I mean, even Sean admitted it. Like before the fight, Sean admitted it. He's like, I put the thing out there and he did the

thing while he was running. He put the video and say, well, no one seems to want Ilya, so fight Marab. And now he's going, he just keeps going back to the well hoping people will get excited about it. But no one seems to be that excited about it, except Sean O'Malley. And even Ilya to Pahoria is like go fight Marab like that's my Georgia brother go fight him uh and O'Malley's like are you sure are you sure you want me to fight Marab and I go back I'm not saying I'm certainly not saying Sean O'Malley scared of Marab de Wilesh really but I go back to something Matt Brown said on our podcast when he said the UFC's trying to squeeze all the juice they can get out of Sean O'Malley right now before Marab comes in and empties the cup out he's not wrong because if Marat beats O'Malley the chance of him

ever doing that goes completely away like it's not like he's going to suddenly become a viable contender at 145. Look what happened to Al Jemaine. Al Jemaine. Al Jemain was a champion, a long-reigning champion for Bant's weight. He didn't get in and fight. He doesn't, he's not getting Max Holloway at 300.

He's not getting, he's getting Calvin Cater. I like Calvin Cater. I like Calvin Cater. Son, knock on Calvin Cater, but Aljabin didn't just roll right into a title fight. Like, O'Malley knows. Like, he's got to go for it now

because Marab is an incredibly difficult fight. I would be so mad if I was Aljo just watching all of this. And Aljo, a guy who asked for a champ, who was taking short turnarounds, who was just fighting the next guy forever, like, if I was watching this, if I was him, I would be very upset.

I am encouraged, though, because I do feel like this is a situation where the OEC is going to do the right thing, ultimately, and then we are going to get this Morab fight. Because how many times do we have a situation like this where the champion is the underdog, right? The odds are already out on this Morab fight, and Sean O'Malley is, what, like, minus 105,

with Marab being, like, minus 2, 125, something like that. Like, it's pretty close to a pickup, but the fact that Marab is a betting favorite, I don't know how you're going to watch what he did to Piorean and Henry Suhudo and not just be so interested in that fight. That to me is like one of my top fights on the calendar now that I really just need to see. And also, you got to remember, the UFC actually has some star power building here in two divisions. Like, why ruin that? Like, Ilya seems like he's going to be a star. Like, he's already a huge amount of attention.

He is a star. And O'Malley selling 14. million, you know, the game, everything in Miami. And I understand Dustin Porre played at least some part in getting that where it's at. I think Dustin deserves some of the credit for what $2.99 did. But it ultimately comes down to the headliner. The UFC doesn't want to ruin that. Like they have two, like with Conner gone and John Jones basically on his last leg with one

fight left in Israel out there, but we're not sure when he's coming back, all those kind of things. Like they need stars. O'Malley and Toporia are two stars. Why would you kill one of them up by watching. Ilya go out there just absolutely flattened Sean O'Malley or on the very off chance, which I don't think it would happen, but on the very off chance that maybe O'Malley goes out there and just beats your brand new champion.

Like what do they gain from that? Really, it would kill him. Here's the other thing, too, just for my kind of last thing. I think Sean has rightfully recognized if he doesn't call for this now, he's never going to get it. He's outside of the Marab fight. Like, it's a pick-em fight. He can beat Marab. By the time he beats Marab, there would be more interest in an Ilya fight, I guess.

But by the time he beats Mara, Corey Sankhani and Umar and Murakamette will have settled up. And the winner of that fight will both defeat him and be undeniable for a title fight. So he is like that's the issue with being the Bannamweight champion, Shaheen, to your previous point. If you're Aljo and you want to do these other things, there is always coming down the pipeline at you. Like there is always something you line is up for that. It's lightweight. And it's a little bit of featherweight, though that's been a bit less and maybe still will be. It's just there is always a dude who is next.

Sean got lucky that the UFC allowed him to handpick Cheeto because that's exactly what happened. And that's okay. Because he should have been fighting Marab. And if you beat Marab, then he should have been fighting Corey. He got one freebie. I don't think they're going to give him another one, much less give him another one, up a weight class against their new champion when there's such a ready-made Volcanovsky

rivalry there and they'll do that later this year. Here's my last thing on this because I do want to push back on one tiny sentence that you said there, that there's no way we can revisit this if he doesn't do it now. I think there's a very real world. If Sean O'Malley, the way that this has been built

and the way that Marab has sold himself and really transform the narrative around himself this year alone, Like you come into 2024, the way people felt him out with Marab was very different than the way they do now. People have rallied behind this. If Sean goes out there and actually beats Marab in a fight that no one, very few people are probably going to be picking him for. A lot of people throughout this entire thing will be doing saying the exact same thing as the Matt Brown thing. I'm just like, well, this is it.

This is the end of the story for Sean. If Sean goes out there and wins that fight, I think the boost to his legacy is dumb, but like the boost. to his reputation and the respect that he would get from the fan base, from everybody is sort of within the sport, the fighters himself, he would become an ultra-megasar. Like that would be, he wouldn't be on a Connor level, but he would be the closest thing to a Connor level we have had, like as a UFC champion, not like a Nate Diaz-Mazvedal thing, but like as an actual champion that we've had since Connor, I think. Because that would be the one fight where I just don't think a lot of people would

ever expect this from him. and if he is able to surpass expectations in that way of a Connor beating a Mendez or a Connor beating in Aldo, I think at that point, Sean is at that level of being like, okay, I did the thing. I did the thing you wanted me to do.

Now let me do this other thing. And I think that would then become a five times bigger fight than it would be if you do it right now. So I think that's still there for him. That's the thing too with this urgency. There's no urgency here. I don't know. I mean, there may be, but also,

and I think, and again, just to kind of throw back this idea, like if umar goes out and beats cori sanhagan just the last name to margamesd off and that legacy that attaches to that that and umar already has a bit of juice behind him and you know obviously you're going to have guys like islam and kabbib and you do that abu dhabi which i know that's probably you know not where sean o'malley wants to defend his title now he's a star maybe seems unlikely but maybe saudi arabia they pay them a boatload for a site fee and the ufc takes it there because umar is a star in that part of the world.

Like, Umar has potential. Now, Umar has to get through Corey Sandhagan, which is certainly no easy test. But, um, um, are star potential too. And I think, you know, you could throw Umar in there against Sean. If Sean does beat Marab and then you do Umar against Sean, that's a big fight too. I'm not saying it would be bigger than Ilya, champ versus champ, all that kind of stuff. But there are still a couple of fights out there for Sean. I think this Marab fight finally has some juice where people are actually willing to like say,

I'm excited for this one. I think that's a genuinely big fight. Like by the time, and I think, and we get the lead up and everything, I think that's a very good. And well, I think on the feet, Corey Sandhagen is a superior striker to Sean O'Malley. And I think that would be a really interesting fight. We, you know, we've seen Corey lose a couple times. So maybe he wouldn't have as much behind him. But if Umar goes out there and beats Corey, then Umar becomes an legitimately interesting fight.

And he has that last day. We can't deny, you know, when Islam fights, people care. when Kabim fought people care if ovar goes out there meets cori sanagan people will care if he fights for a title and dude it's i'm peyote yon just got a big win he is right back in the mix davison figurado he comes and knocks out former champion cody garbrain at 300 and then he gets to fight piotr yon or whatever like i think if you're sean this really is now or never not never but like you if you don't get it right now and it just don't think there's any way that happens I think he's going to have to make at least,

at least two more title defenses, if not three more title defenses, before the window really opens up because the division is so damn deep, man. It's just so many killers coming in. I think it's just if he beats Marab, his level of star power, he will dictate at that point.

Stop, stop, stop putting this into the air. I don't need to see, Shaw. Yeah, don't. Let's not manifest the bad thing. I don't need to see an execution. I don't know what y'all need to hear. This is not me hanging on Sean O'Malley. I have been about as big and pro Sean O'Malley as most people in this sport since day one.

Because I think that he is an Uber talented kid. He will get absolutely annihilated by Elyat. It would not be competitive. He would get Francis and Ghani Anthony Joshua. And that's a big waste. It would just be more colorful because his hair will be all sorts of things as it's flying out of the cage. We don't need this to happen. fight in your own goddamn weight classes, people, feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I do like the idea that Ilya would hit him so hard that his hair would fly off like it's some sort of wig. And we have just, we would be a big reveal we've been waiting for for all these weeks. He might. Like it wouldn't be close. It's just for the love of all things. There are many things in this sport that are awful and I can tolerate them despite the fact that they are objectively worse.

I am coming to my wits end with champ champ shit. For the last three years, I've been begging y'all to stop this nonsense. And it's so, so dumb. If you want to be the champion, be the champion. And if you don't, if you just want to do whatever, that's fine. Don't be the champion then, man. You don't have to be.

You can go fight, Alia. Just stop cutting to 1-3-5. It's so dumb. I hate it so much, guys. I'm sorry. I'm just like, your face is just, it's just been

years of this, man. Of all the awful things Conner's done, the one I hate the most is breaking the sport and making everyone believe. You just have to win two belts and it's, and then go fight Floyd. Because that's the other thing. He's not even being original. Like, Sean is just actively trying to do exactly what Connor did.

It's like, come on. Have your own thought. No credit to. Sean, he did defend a title. Connor's never done that in his life. So there's that for him. But this is just, it's so silly. I'm so tired of it.

I will say one last note on the Sean thing, and then we're moving on. He also jumps into our top 10 pound for pound now. He is now number nine pound for pound, which to me feels right. We have a very interesting pound for pound top 10 at this point, full of a lot of new faces. And either way, regardless of which way this goes, that we this whole discussion we've been having, but that's Ilya, Morab next. both of those gentlemen are ranked in our top 20 pound for pound.

So Shauna O'Malley is going to get a formidable pound-for-pound test in his next fight. And I'm very curious to see how this plays out. Moving on, though, it's been several days. UFC 299 is fading away. And yet I am still sitting here in utter awe of Dustin Poria. I just got to be honest. All of it. The fact that he took this fight to begin with, this was not a fight that happens in the lightweight division.

This is a division of ranking squatters. do not take fights like this against the number 13 ranked, upcoming Special Forces killer who's just murdering everybody. These dudes do not accept this fight, except Dustin Poyer accepted this fight. Then the performance, the knockout, the interview afterwards, him on the MMA hour earlier this week, just how honest and raw it all got him opening up

about the darkness he was experiencing after the Justin Gaci loss, everything to do with it. This man is this universally beloved guy who is basically at this point the biggest, the biggest active star in the lightweight division, for him to be so open and so vulnerable in that way, I am just completely blown away by everything to do with Dustin Poirier right now. He has a special connection with this fan base and this sport,

I think one that not many people have, and to me this past week was the clearest example of it. And Jed, before we started recording, me and you were bantering about this. And it has led me down a rabbit hole. I was writing my column on Saturday night. and I broached this very briefly saying, hey, this is not the time to do this,

but then I spent most of Sunday really thinking about it. Lightweight is such a strange place historically. We have tried to parse this out on other podcasts before, whether I think they were good, a couple different episodes, a Benson episode, and a BJ Penn episode. We have tried to figure this out. The top 10 at Lightweight,

like the Pantheon right now at Lightweight, is so incredibly difficult to figure out. Even the top five at lightweight is so incredibly difficult to narrow down. And I wonder, because we are now in a situation of the UFC's own making, where their complete lack of long-term planning has essentially benefited Dustin and Porre

in the greatest way possible, because I didn't expect to get here, but I am here now, and I am all in on the fact that I think you have to do Islam Makachev versus Dustin Poyer. Because Islam's fighting in June. Everybody else above Dustin is fighting in April, Like this is the move, it's the only move, and it feels like the obvious move, and it seems like a lot of people are sort of aligning with this just because of the timelines.

Like there's not really many options left. This is probably Dustin's last shot at the title. He's spoken a ton about what that would mean to him. Gentlemen, Dustin Porre, right now, where do you feel like he sits? Rank him among the lightweight pantheon, and how would that, and I want to discuss just how that would change if he doesn't. somehow managed to win this title because I think a lot of people out there listening right now would probably be surprised at where Justin probably already sits at lightweight and where he could actually move to if this works out. So I'll just throw it to you first, Jed.

So I myself was surprised because when you when you pitch this to us and we're like, hey, here's the topic. I immediately gravitated to this. It was like, all right, I'm going to take a dive. I'm going to dive into some stuff real fast and sort of do a kind of quick accounting of where I am. Because in my head, I just have sort of the rough idea of, all right, well, one and two are, I have them very clearly. And those how true. But then where to, where does pour a fall? Like, definitely top 10, I would have all time.

Probably not top five. I'm number four. That's where, like, just to cut this short, I got them number four. Feel good about it. When we're talking off air, Shane, I, I have a list of 10 with a couple that are just, just missed the cut. We don't agree on all of them. We have a couple of things off here, but largely the same. And sort of my read on this, as I kind of have tried to think it is, I think there is a clear one. I think there is a pretty clear two. I am still open to conversations

about them, but it's one of those things where like, if you don't have these guys as one and two, you maybe aren't wrong, but I'm going to squint my eyes and be a bit skeptical about your your rationalizations there. And then from three to eight on my list, like put them in a bag, draw them out of a hat, any order is fine for me. I have the order that I like feel okay about tentatively,

but by no means do I think it is comprehensive or accurate. It can change depending on what you value, etc. But I think Habib is the unquestioned best lightweight of all time. I don't think there's a realistically viable conversation out of that. That's me. That's a hard and fast number. number one. Like he has to be the top of the list. I've got him locked in number one.

I just don't think I'm not really open to great arguments against that. I have BJ at number two. Again, if you want to make an argument, I'd be a little skeptical, but I'm at least willing to engage there. But those to me are are clearly in tiers above the rest of the pack. Habib's in his own tier. BJ is maybe in that tier, but certainly in his own tier, if not. And then the next tier, and here's the one my number three that you did not anticipate. And I think, most won't. I already have Islam as the number three greatest lightweight of all time. I think his resume is sneaky good and has improved over time.

It is aged beautifully, the earlier wins he got. And from that, I have Dustin Poir at number four. I then rounded out with Eddie at five, Benson Henderson at six, Charles Oliver at seven, Frankie at eight, and that's that tier, right? And then beyond that tier, I have Justin Gage and Tony Ferguson sort of in the next tier down, but if Gachie beats Max Holloway at 300, he would probably then also get elevated into that next tier up because all of these dudes have somewhere between 8 and 10 good wins,

basically at lightweight. Like, because some of them, they competed at featherweight for a while. They competed in other weight classes for a while. And so their lightweight resume purely isn't as good. But it's all just a, it's been a deeply competitive weight class. So they got wins and losses over a bunch of different people. It's been a long time. But I was surprised by how many good wins, Porier has.

I have him clocked at 12 wins that I would consider good at lightweight, which is the most of any of these competitors, by the way. He is, you know, he didn't ever win a true belt or hasn't yet. But he just keeps doing the damn thing. And one of my big things is about your ability to last in this sport. And as a champion, defend against next generations of fighters be that that's the mark to me of a great champion and poor he's not a champion but beating bSD is the sort of next generation of lightweight he's been doing

this for a long time and he is still at the top of the game and that scores a lot of credit so i think he's a top five dude man and with the opportunity to advance even when you told me that originally i was a little shocked because i just did not expect it i sat down here staring at the screen for so long trying to figure out my order. And I agree with you. I think Khabib Nuremberg-Madoff has to be number one. And to me, BJ Penn just has to be number two. That feels hard and fast, like just in terms of what those guys were able to accomplish during their eras. Their significance to the division, all of it means, that just feels like you have to have those two guys in that general sense. I can understand BJ if you want to drop him a little bit, but like he has to be in

that mix. Outside of that, I think three. through 10 is incredibly debatable. My list I had in some order. This is not the right order. This is just some order. Benson, Frankie, RDA, Charles Olivera, Eddie Alvarez, Tony Ferguson, Dustin Poirier, Justin Gachey,

and Islamakachev. In some order, you could throw those in, and that will round out the top 10 and a couple guys will get left off. And I just could not really figure out where I had Dustin sitting. Damon, throwing it to you, does that all sound right to you?

And also I guess where are you sitting with this? Yeah, I would say I'm probably dead on with Jed's top three. I would probably go, Khabib number one, that's without question. BJ number two, when you look at his dominance of what he did at lightweight, before he fell off a cliff, he was one of the most dynamic,

devastating fighters you'd ever seen. Your favorite fighter, baby. I would probably right now, probably agree with Islam and number three. three although again i understand it's kind of like that i'm with eushin where it's kind of like yeah at three through 10 it's just like throw them in a bag mix it up roll it out and you're not really wrong but islam being the current champion and how dominant he's been the way he just absolutely decimated charles olivera and listen i'm with jed i hate the champ versus champ fights but i will give credit you know if one guy did

kind of earn it quote unquote vulcanovsky did earn the chance you know he had pretty much beaten everybody he could be at that point of featherweight and he had a great performance performance took it to Islam, but still lost. That one still matters. You know, that's still a good win. So, yeah, I don't have a problem with Islam in three. And at that point, it really is a craft shoot because, you know, you can talk about other champions like Benson had his moments.

You know, you got a win over Renee Diaz. He had a pretty controversial win over Frankie Edgar, if I'm being honest with that. Two legitimate wins. Go back and rewatch those fights, they are very legitimate wins. We discussed this statement on the Benson Henderson Dam Pod and the consensus is, or at least on that pod, maybe not the consensus writ large. Bindo actually did deserve to win those fights. The first one, the first one I totally agree, the second one, I thought Frankie had you, but

they're close. I'm not going to sit here and say it was like, you know, agreed. It wasn't, you know. You're also leaving out that Frankie robbed BJ the first time they fought. So all bad things that happened to him subsequently were justified and acceptable. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, this is, maybe this is like the wrong reason to give credit where credits do but frankie as a bantam weight because he was never really

a lightweight the fact that he went to war and had those fights with gray manored and won and did have the second fight with bj he clearly beat b jp in the second time yes and the third time we will not speak of we'll not talk about that third time i don't know what you're talking about yeah but like frankie anger like it or not he has to be in that conversation like you go back and watch like i was at a couple of those great mainer fights how he survived and won is unbelievable. Hold on, though. The tough thing about Frankie is that, like,

a lot of his best work was not in the lightweight division. And people, like, you forget how short his lightweight division run was and really the few names that he was able to accumulate because the top of that list is tremendous. I have immense respect for Gray Mater. I think those are great wins, or a great win, I should say. Great win, singular. The BJ wins are spectacular.

But outside of that, like the cupboard is pretty bare at lightweight. I think people overstate Frankie's lightweight resume and sort of conflate it with his overall resume. Because his overall resume is incredible. But a lot of that wasn't at lightweight. He was the biggest shock to me of all of this. Because in my head, I was like, all, B, J, probably Bindo and Frankie somewhere in the two spot, like, or in the three to four spot.

And then like, then it's just sort of the rest of them, DP, you know, Gathe, as he got into it, I was like, yeah, Frankie actually has a fairly thin, lightweight resume, a tremendous, like a Hall of Fame worthy. He's getting inducted, obviously, resume. But he was one of the dudes who got, him and RDA probably got hit the most for competing outside of the lightweight division.

Yeah, so, but I'm saying Frankie's in that mix. I'm not putting him top five, but he's in the mix. And I think, and I think also, you know, to give him credit to credit, I think Justin Gage, he deserves, serves to be in that conversation as well when you look at a guy who has a I know it's a weird way to say he has like he has he did get around against Khabib now I know that's a very low bar to

set but no very few people can say they want around against Kibib Mn Mavamaama binov now and Connor that that's the list actually but he is the guy let's be honest he is the guy who stole tony Ferguson's soul like tony ferguson was still the other best lightweight besides kibibibh came in there and beat it out of him and and tony was never the same again now we can talk about age and everything i understand that does play a part but justin gaichi took tony's soul like tony was never the same again he knocked out dustapore in the last one and then we talk about like the bin wals saint dene fight now that again was lower in the rankings but justin did take the fight with fazeve and fizziv at that time was like number seven number eight he wasn't in that top five

he took the fight with viziv and had a great fight it was an incredible of a performance. So Justin Gagey, I think it's in the conversation as well. But yeah, I think I think Dustin top five, one other name, I'm going to throw out a name and you guys are going to laugh and I know I'm going to get pushed back on this. Top 10. I'm not saying top five, saying top 10. When you think about the run he made when he was in strike force, I would say Gilbert Melendez deserves to be in that conversation as well. When he had the wars with Josh Thompson, that's super fair. He did the Shin Yaoki. I'm not going to like that. Again, he got to the UFC, didn't work out for him. I understand that. But when you look at his run and strike

what he was doing at that time. Gilbert Melendez was an incredibly impressive white weight. He just did it outside the UFC. But I would say Dustipori top five, I think, again, I think him and Gage, you're kind of battling for that spot because they have kind of the same, in a lot of ways, they have the same record. They've won and beaten a lot of great guys.

They've beaten each other. And then they've lost to the best of the best, the Islam's, the Khabib. And I think Charles Olivares in that conversation as well, Charles just has a bigger resume. You can't forget what happened before. You know, you can't just erase. A lot of what happened before was it featherweight?

It was, it was. But I'm just saying you can't just completely erase, you know, his, you know. So Charles is in that conversation as well. But yeah, I think I think Dustin top five is top five or six, depending on how you want to shake it out. It's pretty, pretty fair. I mean, again, I think Charles is in there. I think Justin's in there. But yeah, I think that's pretty fair.

And again, I, just to put this out there, not to keep going back to the podcast, but, you know, I have no problem if they give Dustin Porre a title shot off this. UFC kind of screwed themselves with the timing year. I thought Gaichi was the guy and he should have been. They made him fight Max Holloway. Okay, that's fine. Olivera and Suruki and I have a hard time believing the winner of that fight is going to be like, oh yeah, I'll turn around and fight in June.

So, yeah, give Dustin his chance. And listen, if you're asking me right now, do I think he beats Islam Ocatchev? No, I don't think anyone beats Islam Makachov right now. But give him a shot and let him have one more because let's, let's be honest it probably is his last title shot so international fight week i just literally just got off with umar and her megamatov umar's like let's do islam dustin in the main event and let's do me and cori sandagan five rounds international fight week sign me up i do think one name for that yeah i shouldn't glaise pesa because i also hear for that i'm here for that i do think one name that i think someone

at home, certainly a lot of people at home are probably screaming internally or externally maybe. I don't know how you consume pods. Maybe you scream at pods when you listen to them. I tend not to, but, you know, I think one name that probably that's happening with right now is Charles Olivera because we keep mentioning him in passing, but he's also somebody who has beaten Dustin Poirye. He's somebody who's beaten Justin Gehche. You look at his lightweight run, it's so much better than the featherweight run.

It's, I think, 13 and 2 since he moved back to lightweight or something like that. 12 and 2, something that effect. And a lot of those names are really solid, solid names. So I think we might actually be doing a disservice to Charles by not putting him in at that number four spot. I'm still making my list in real time. So I'm just more talking this out. Like are we sliding Charles here?

No, because again, I wouldn't have any issues with it. I have him at seven. I have him behind Porier, Eddie, and Bendo. And I knew when I did that, the like arguably that would be the thing because he did beat Porier. but I do think that, I mean, we were talking about it off air. Sheen, I very quickly was just like, what are the number of good wins at lightweight that you have?

Wins that I would consider of quality. And poor he had the most is 12, 12 wins that I would consider good quality wins. I'm not going to get into that because we just don't need to read names. Oh, I'm going to read the names. I'm going to read the damn names because it's ridiculous. I had this written down. Max Holloway twice, Carlos Diego Ferra, Bobby Green, Jim Miller, Anthony Pedis, Justin Gaichie, Eddie Alvers, Dan Hooker,

Connor McGregor, Twice, Michael Chandler, Benoit, St.D.D. That is absurd, man. And a lot of those were wars. A lot, so many of those rewards. The fact that this dude is still doing wars, still having these type of fights at this point is absurd. It's ridiculous. And like, I think Olivera, again, this is fluid.

Oliver is still competing, still doing very well. All these guys are, yeah. A lot of his career was it featherweight prior to the lightweight move. And so his lightweight career is really the career over the past whatever, five, four, five years, which has obviously been insane. There was, in my opinion, a ridiculous motion to be like, oh, he's actually the greatest lightweight of all time prior to the Islam fight. We're like, oh, maybe he's actually coming for Habib for the goat titles.

Like, I've seen this dude get finished literally eight times. He's not the goat. But it's like, it's a solid run. But Kevin Lee, Tony Ferguson, Michael Chandler, Dustin, Porx, and Michael Chandler, Dustin, Justin Gates, you bin, Neil Derrush. That's a great run. That's six great wins versus 12 from Poria. I just, I had to give him the benefit.

If you want to put him over, if you want to put him over Bindo, but I did want to credit Bindo for having a more accomplished and sort of successful lightweight career run. I think the one I'll disagree on with people the most is Eddie Alvarez. I don't think Eddie gets his due, like honestly, just because his UFC run was, was what it was. It was fine, but underwhelming to some extent.

I mean, he was the underground king for a reason. He was the lightweight for like a lot of time, honestly, just because he was competing in Sun Goku and Bellator. I mean, he just has a bunch of really great wins. And I think he deserves to be considered a top five lightweight all time.

But again, I don't have any issues. And all this can change. If Oliver beats Surukin, he's probably bumping over Bindo in my list, right? Like he goes out there and beats Rukin. If Gachi beats Max, he's going to bump over Frankie in my list. If DP, and I know that this is a topic of conversation, so I'll transition us right into it.

If D.P. goes out here and jumps the gilly on Islamakachev and gets it, he's the number two lightweight of all time. And I don't think at that point. Right there with you. Maybe it's arguable. I don't honestly think if he gets an undisputed belt by tapping Islamakchev with the gilly, which none of us think will happen. but if it does, if he wins, period,

he's the second best, man. And I also think when you talk about, like, I think when you talk about all time lists, you know, you do have to talk about a career. And we do kind of give a pass, and understandably so,

when guys are at the end of their career. Like, we don't, we think of, we think of, we think of, yeah, exactly, we think of BJ when he was at his best.

And that's kind of where I came out with Gilbert Belendez. When Gilbert was at his best, he was one of the best light of the world. At the end, he was just not the same guy. already gone through everything. And when he got, by the time he got to the UFC,

and even though he fought for a title in the UFC, that wasn't the same Gilbert that fought. And your, your Raya Hall is not above Anderson Silva on the middleweight rankings of all the time. Yeah. You know? So,

so Charles O'Overe, the reason I say that is because Charles O'OVare right now, he is at his best. But we can't just totally forget he got absolutely bludgeoned by Paul Felder. A couple of years. Like that was, it was 2017. Like,

I know that's not super close, but he did get absolutely blasted by Paul Felder. And Jim Miller. He lost to Jim Miller, Jim Miller and Cowboy knocked him out. You know, so I'm not saying. He lost to Frankie. It genuinely hurts his resume that when he loses, he loses big, man.

It's tough for him that all of his losses are bad losses. I want to be clear, but like, I'm not knocking Charles because Charles is absolutely on that list, but we can't just forget. Like, these are not losses happening at the end of his career. These are losses happening. I mean, yeah, you can say he got a lot better. Of course he did. he's still lost.

He got knocked out by Donald Serroney. He got beaten by Jim Miller. He got bludgeoned by Paul Felder. Absolutely blasted into the, into the cage by Paul Felder. And that was his last loss before he wanted that run. So I'm not diminishing him. I'm just saying, like,

we can't just ignore those things. They happened in the lightweight division. And so, yeah, like, and just, I mean, I would say, listen, you got to, I mean, Eddie Alvarez, you mentioned Eddie Alvarez. He has a win over Justin Gaci. Like, he does have a legitimate win over Justin Gachi.

and you know we consider to say well Michael Johnson is a knockout over Dustin he can't forget all these things but I agree if Dustin could somehow you know you miss all the Gillies you don't jump for if he jumps for a guile and puts him on Islam Makachev I'm 100% with you he jumps the number two I'm just being honest though I don't see that happening I don't see Islam losing but you imagine the scenes though how it would be like one of the greatest moment in the sport yeah it would be it one of the rare times in sport that everybody rises up and is just like happy for like righteously happy for one man in just the bet if it's the gilly too if he does it with the move that

he's never successfully done oh he gets the vengeance for failing to do it on hubby he pulls it off oh my god i would retire from the sport immediately because it would never get better we just never Michael, Michael Bisbing, doing the impossible against Luke Rockhold on short notice at the very end of his career and becoming a UFC champion will forever be the feel-good moment in MMA history. Dustin Poirier jumping at Gileon, Islam wouldn't surpass it. That would be the one thing that, like, would just unanimously surpass it in my eyes. And the weird thing, the word thing about Dustin, though, is like, I would be surprised to be Islam. Like, I would pick Islam. I'm telling you that right now.

I'd be very surprised. that fight. Yeah, but Islam, take a dive. Do the right thing. Leave your neck out there, buddy. Do the right thing. But Porre has always been that dude. Like he's always been one fight. He was, he's, for the longest part, like he's been in the toughest situation of his career where he's always been the number two guy because Khabib was around. He couldn't get past Khabi. I picked him to beat him to be Charles Olavera. Olavera beat him. I will pick Islam to beat him and I think Islam will win. I think not to not to get too far off something. I think with the thing that was different with the whole feel good story. is because no one picked Bisping. No one thought Bisping had a chance to be Luke Rockhold on short-nosed.

And he just got, he just got absolutely mauled by Rockhold like a year and a half earlier. He had knocked out and submitted by him 18 months prior. No one thought he was doing it. So just throwing that out there. But I would actually, I'm 100% picking Islam. But would I be stunned out of my mind if he beat Islam somehow pulled it off because it's Dustin Pori? I wouldn't be that shocked.

I would be, I was stunned beyond words that Bissing. knocked out Rockhold laid it. Shaheen, manifest this. Instead of manifesting Shauna Mallory to featherweight vagrant, manifest this with your words. I just,

ultimately, to wrap this all up, was stunned with where I landed on this, and I think maybe seems like we're all sort of an agreement. Coming into this, I did not expect Dustin Porre to be a top five lightweight in my mind, but the exact way you frame it, Jed,

like, lightweight is so volatile, and all the, these guys just have such a window, X number of years to rack up these good wins. And Dustin's windows have been, it's been a little longer than most. The number of good wins that he has, you said, 12 at lightweight, 13, ultimately, if you want to count the first max fight as well. That is so vast compared to the rest of these contemporaries. I didn't expect him to be a top five lightweight for me.

He is, I've settled on him number four. I think you guys are right. That feels right to me, and that is stunning to me. I am genuinely shocked because I did not wake up. today and expect to get here and I agree also that if he wins regardless of how he wins if it's gilly cool if it's something else cool he's number two and he it for him to end up as the number two lightweight of all time would be unbelievable for this guy this man that we have just watched face adversity after adversity after hurdle after hurdle just over and over again in this guy's

career unbelievable it especially when the number one's can hobib it's just like Literally. Okay, bro. What are you going to do against that, man? Like, it's just not feasible to pass a beep. So, yeah, it'd be incredible. I honestly, big Islam guy because it's a big Abeeb guy. I hope it happens because it would be such a great story.

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Agreed. Let's move on. We got one more quick thing to hit, and then we're going to pour some out. Welcome some people in, and we'll get out of here. Quickly, do you want to hit the welterways? Because we had a couple big moves

in the welterweight division this past cycle. One, Jack Delam, Manilana. He had the biggest move of anybody in the entire, all of the divisions. He jumped up the list. He went up eight spots. He went from number 13 to number five. He did essentially,

what Benoit would have done, had Benoit won with his win over Gilbert Burns, laying the most perfect knee in the history. humanity. And then also, I know this one special for you, Damon. Michael Page, noted Michael Page fan. Damon, the biggest Michael Page fan I know personally, makes his UFC debut. Some are calling it the greatest UFC debut of all time. No, I kid, I kid. It was a good, it was a good fight though.

And he did damn good and he completely frustrated Kevin Holland. And so he jumps up from number 15 and number 14 for us. So gentlemen, I just throw it to you, which one of these is a bigger story? for this welterweight division because I don't think either of these men is going to get fight for the title in their next fight so that doesn't matter but just in general who do you think is the bigger story for this division let's just go ahead and say it right now I mean it's jack della madelena um michael page I know here we go Damon on Michael venom page there's podcast history of me on on this ranking show talking about Michael venom page I like michael men and page the person I've interviewed him incredibly nice guy I'm not I'm not I don't

dislike you. I believe you've called him a fraud. A bit of a fraud, yeah, because when you look at the history of the guys he's fought, I mean, and again, that's Bellator's fault. They gave him nothing but cans he could beat. They gave him guys that he's supposed to beat. That's exactly what he did. Was I impressed that he beat Kevin Holland? Kind of, I guess. Kevin Holland fought with the weirdest game plan ever against Michael Venn and Page. I don't know what he was actually trying to do, but it wasn't a good fight. Anyone that says it was a good fight, you're lying to yourselves. It was a bad fight.

It wasn't a good fight. It's ridiculous. But Michael Winnipegis. That is an absurd thing. Please go on. That is an absurd thing. He's 37. Am I right?

37, 36, 37? I mean, we know the, we know the number past 34 up to Welterway. The only guy to ever do it is Tyron Woodley. Outside of that, no one has ever become champion past 35 in these divisions. There's some fun fights out there for him. can fight Ian Gary, that's the one I suggest. Throw him in there with Ian Machado Gary and let him do some stuff with that. That could be fun.

I don't think the Wonder Boy find would be that fun. But there's a ceiling on Michael Venham page. There's a clear ceiling. You know, I mean, do you, does, would anyone actually pick him to beat Shepkat Rick Monoff? Would anyone really clearly pick his video? But if that's the barometer, then everybody at Walter Waite sucks. But, no, I'm just saying like, I don't think he beats. I don't think he beats a lot.

Like, there are guys he could beat. sure he could be Neil Magny, you know, he could beat that. He could win that fight. He can beat Leon, bud. I'm just going to tell you that right now. He's not beating Leon Edwards. He's not being Leon Edwards. He's not being four punches around.

Like, MVP could absolutely win the ugliest fight you've ever seen. And Michael Ben and Page threw like one punch against Leon Storer, against Logan Storley in a rounds. Let's not talk about who throws. Logan just tackled him. Logan Dove in his hipster 25 minutes. I watched that fight. I had a lot of money on Logan Storley.

I am happy he was. one, it was a stone cold robbery. It was a terrible fight. But my point is, is that like, let me know. Let me illustrate to the people, to the people to the listeners out there, the level to which Damon's dislike of this man goes, you look at your ratings for last month, David. Kevin Hall was your number 14 welterweight. You look at your rankings today?

Kevin Hall is not on the welterweight rankings, but neither is Michael Page. You just slip someone else in there as well. I respect the level of petty that this goes. I'm just saying. I, what I respect is that Logan Storley is on your rankings off of, I'm assuming the back of his garbage ass win over Michael Vindam page. Unless you're really ranking Neiman crazy and Brennan Ward as like top tier wins,

it's he beat Michael Venom page. I, uh, I just, I just, I feel like I know, I know that. I got him.

I know the ceiling. He did. I mean, I thought Logan, it was a bad fight. I thought Logan won. It was a terrible fight. I'm not going to sit here and say like,

but wins do matter. And I thought Logan did win that fight. And at the time, I think at the time it happened, I want to say I did actually have Michael Benham Page ranked at like number 15 or something. And then Logan beat him and I bounced him out. But yeah, I mean,

I just, I think we know who Michael Venham page is. We know the ceiling on this guy. Like, does anyone here legitimately think he's going to be a UFC champion? right now. Do you legitimately think he's going to go on a run to become the U.S. champion? I don't think he's going to be. I absolutely think he can be. I think he has a very clear path to winning the title. I don't think it will happen like everyone else with two eyeballs

and a fandom for this sport. I believe that Shavkaa Rakhmanov is best well to wait in the world. And it is purely a question of when he gets his opportunity. But I have always found the conversation around MVP to be maybe the most like stunted and weird of any because no one can just be like oh yeah he's good

like he's good dude like he's good at fighting he's not the best fighter and he's not awful because there's certainly the pushback to be he's never beaten anyone that is absolutely true he is mostly fought cans but to your point right at the top damon it's not his fault he didn't get to choose that

it's bellator he only fought like two good dudes in belator they were his worst fights over there. That's absolutely true. Yeah, but he's also beating the hell out of the bad people, which is something else to expect. He's a good fighter. He's a top 15-ish fighter.

I think many of the dudes in this weight class would beat him and certainly struggled to beat him. But I also think that his style is like, if he comes out of this and they book him against, I mean, even if they booked him against Jack Della, I'd probably pick Jack Della. I would not be stunned if he beat. Jack Della in a fight because Jack Della has looked pretty bad his last three fights,

but for that great knee he landed in the final round against Gilbert Burns, he was losing that fight until he did that. I like, would it really astonish you if they dragged Camaro out to fight him, and he just jumped around Camaro for 15 minutes, and Camaro could never get him down because he has knees that don't work and can't cut the cage well enough? Wouldn't shock me.

And if he fought Leon, I think I would just pick Leon out of respect for Leon the human being, which, Sheen, to your earlier point from the last question, Leon's head kick knockout and the subsequent fan edits is probably the actual like just feel good moment of all light of like MMA history. But, you know, just wanted to add that in here. But the same time, like, it would in no way surprise me. If they just ran it right now, it would be deeply embarrassing to do.

that to below, but, you know, all England title fight. And he could jump in, land four punches around. And that's going to be three more punches around than Leon lands because he doesn't want to commit offense to anyone. So like, I watched Leon Edwards almost lose to Nate freaking Diaz at one point in time. It won't stun me if he loses to MVP who's much better fit to fire. So I don't think he's going to win. He's probably not going to even get to a title fight. But I think it's just fine to acknowledge that he's a good quality fighter happy to have him he can be fun it'd be better to book him in better matchups than like have him fight sean brady who it would be awful to watch that fight you know that's all i'm saying there's a ceiling on michael benham page is all i'm getting

that there is a ceiling on how high he will go i know who he is can he be fun to watch at time sure throw him in there against uh throw him in there against rickieie he can pull off a great highlight a real knockout okay now you're just being i mean he was was deeply fun to watch Kevin Holland. There was, you were not the only one, Damon, to your credit, there was a clear pushback from people that that fight sucked. I do not know what you all watched. That fight was fine.

It wasn't a fight of the year, but it was a perfectly enjoyable fist fight. Kevin Holland was silent. We watched so many fights over the course of a year. We watched so many bad fights over the course of a year. If there was like a, you know how baseball wins above replacement? If there was like a fights above replacement. replacement stat like that is that is a fight above replacement if you give me that fight compared to just a random apex fight that that is a mediocre trash apex fight like i'm definitely taking that

that is not a bad fight it just there's yall it's fun he just jumped in and punched him in the head head a bunch kevin was real quiet the whole time it's great it's great punched him in that what was a total how i think it was like 25 punches landed or something yeah over three rounds that's not exciting to me. Yeah. It was a lot of dancing. Do I have a champion for you by the name of Leon.

A lot of hands down, a lot of chin wagon, but yeah, I didn't, I mean, yeah, but to get back to the original question, like,

I don't think, I don't think Jack Della Madeline is going to be a champion either. And it's not because I don't think he's good. I just think the top of that division is just not, he was not beating Gilbert Burns. And then he pulled out a great third round finish. Credit to him.

But I don't see him beating, he's not going to beat chavkat rukmanoff which but i don't i don't think he beats god mohammed either like yeah yeah yeah i mean oh yeah gilbert took him down a lot and below is a much better wrestler and you know and that's a nightmare he probably doesn't he probably doesn't be sean brady i don't think he beat sean brady either i don't think he does he is also 27 so like he's got room to grow but you want to here here's i'll give you i'll give you an mvp fight i'll give me an MVP fight that would be fun and would give him a chance to see how good he really is and we can get a test here, okay?

I'm being serious. Throw him in there with Vicente Lucke. That's a guy who you know will come at him. And that's what MVP wants. He wants to counterstrike. We saw what Wonderboy did to Vicente and made Wonderboy look like the freaking most dazzling fighter in the world

because Vicente just charged forward and Wonderboy picked him apart on the feet. Yeah, the exact same thing, the exact same thing will happen. Vicente's fighting Joaquin Buckley. later this year or later this month I should say so I don't I don't hate

giving him the winner of that that's a that's a easy fight I don't think they do it I think they're going to give them I don't think they're going to give them I don't think they do it further up the list maybe like it might be I mean Machado Gary's got the Covington thing

maybe happening but I think he dummy Vicente Lucay and I like Vicente Lucay but like everyone that Stephen Thompson beat it's going to look pretty similar when MVP fights him as just what it is and so it's okay

Okay, but you just got to acknowledge that and be, and fine. And I mean, Stephen Wonderboy Thompson was like one judge's scorecard away from being Walterway champion. I think MVP can be Walterway champion. I would not pick it to happen, but I think it's in play. And just to wrap us up here, I got to say, I have to say, all kudos to Jack Delamette Elena for calling out the Reaper, because no one out here is making callouts in the middle, after their post-fight stuff of Shafkatrak Monoff.

And that man just went through hell against Gilbert Burns. It was like, yeah, screw it, give me Shavkat. I love that. You got to love the stones. You got to love the stones on that guy. He's like, give me Shavkat. I'm not calling out the champ. Give me Shavkat, the guy who is absolutely just destroying people.

Yeah, it's a tough one. Careful what you wish for, bud. Big fella. Kudos though, man. Kudos. Talk about the stones it takes to go out there and win that fight. So give me Shafkat Rack Motov. In a way, it's, I almost wonder if it's like a big brain,

galaxy brain, like this is actually kind of a smart move, because of all the people you could fight in the top of this division, that is the one guy that if you go out there and you lose, I don't know that your stock takes that big of a hit because of course you lost to him. It's true. It does create the issue that you will be losing to the future champion, so a future title fight will be harder to get to since you already have the loss.

But if you go out there, but listen, I know he's not going to get a title shot, but look, can we not forget, like, Jeff Neal brought it to him? That was a fun fight until Jeff got finished. like Jeff came after Shavkat. Like that's what I'm saying. Like Jack can make a showing for himself. He goes out there and makes it a bit of a war. Like Wonderboy didn't.

Wonderboy just got taken down and absolutely just got mauled by Shabat. If he can do a little Jeff Neal thing where he kind of, you know, he kind of socks him in the mouth a couple times, makes him work for it. That's a win. That's a win. Like Jeff Neal has the closest thing to a win and he got choked out. But like that's the closest thing we have to somebody challenging Shafkat Rekbanos so far. I do have to say too,

lasting on this. Shafcats' response to the callout. A plus. A, a fucking plus. Was it send me location? Oh, I respect your courage and confidence,

Jack, comma, but you will face the same fate as my previous opponents. Dude is talking like shout out here. Like, he's just straight up being final boss quotes. It's almost,

it's almost not quite as cold, but almost as cold is the Robbie Lawler, Connor quote. Does everyone remember that one? Yeah. I'll take it. He says, I wouldn't have taken his neck in the report. He says, what would you have taken?

His soul? Just like, Jesus Christ. Keep Conrad from Robbie Law. He's going to murder this man. I respect your courage and confidence, Jack. But you will face the same fate as my previous opponent. It's so good. That's so good.

It's legitimately Thanos to Robert Danny Jr. Of like, oh, like, you're brave. I hope they remember you as he kills him. I hope your people remember you dead man. Jesus. I love it. I love it so much. All right, fellas, we got to wrap things up.

Last thing we do on this program. And I'm sorry I'm having to do it alone, AKA you're here with me in spirit. We pour one out. It's my favorite part of the program. We pour one out. We welcome people back. We welcome people in.

And literally Damon is only part of this program today because he demanded it because he was like, I am going to be here for when you pour one out. For this next person, fellas, it is time to say goodbye to everyone's favorite. The former champion, Juliana Pena, out at women's bantam weight, due to inactivity. She has not fought in a very, very long time at this point. We have an 18-month cut off. Fellas, I know it pains everyone to see this, Damon in particular, so let us maybe take a moment of silence for Juliana Pena.

Damon wiped a smile on her face. nah, nah, nah, nah, no, hey, hey, hey, goodbye. Giuliana Pena, the former champion, without a single win over anyone on the current UFC roster. Anyone, none, zero, zilch, none. The caveat I have to always add to this when you say this stat also has a win over the goat, but you know, do you, do you, Damon. But I'm just saying one more.

Any one more would be fine. None. It's hard to argue with hard facts. One of the name we're pouring out for this month, Ryan Bader, who really got no remorse from our rankings crew at all, like a precipitous. Everyone was just waiting.

Precipitous fault. This man slowly, incrementally worked his way up into a top 10 heavyweight spot. And then he was at number nine and he lost once. One loss to Haddon Ferreira, and he is out. I think only one person even had him on their ballot entirely. So I'm sorry, Ryan Bader. That is tough.

That is a tough way for this to go. But unfortunately, that's the way for this to go. And four names welcoming in to the rankings this month. Steve Ursaig coming at number 14 flyweight. Probably too low. To be honest, Steve Ursaig, like, low-key, close to be an entitled contention out there. Like, really surprising. He just went away.

he's looking really good i mean shit didn't pantosier call him out like wasn't he like i think mahaev and ursig are kind of the guys who are the most deserving of the next title fight like shouts to you steve ursegg i do believe no one saw that coming i so i pitched him at the end of last year and we were doing our breakthrough fighters of the year as one of the guys and i think that he is the guy in future years will look back like oh we beefed this one like we screwed up by not having him higher in the in the breakout fighters just because he's a flyweight and he had two decisions but it looks like he's going to be a dude who is legitimately entitled contention and hanging around the top eight top 10 for for a while to come also i think his general

demeanor his vibe uh doesn't help him in that respect right yeah very quiet guy kind of seems like happy to be there uh but welcome steversig number 14 flyweight again that's probably too low Kylear Phillips also joining the Bantamweight ranks. Bantamweight like lightweight, one of the hardest divisions to really enter these ranks from. Because UFC talent alone, like there's a lot, but then you point you expand it out to a global scale. There is an insurmountable talent to be able to break into these bansomweight and lightweight rankings.

So Kyle Fy Phillips coming in after that fantastic win over Pedro Munoz at number 15 bansomweight. Also Fluffy Hernandez, Anthony Hernandez coming in 15 middleweight. And then our boy, Brian Ortega, Jed's favorite. coming in from unranked because he was also like a Peña out due to inactivity, beats Tierra Irr in Vegas in very Brian Ortega fashion. And he is now our number five featherweight right there in title contention as well. Which is, it's really impressive considering he sucks.

So to be the number five featherway in the world when you're bad is credit to him, you know. So many beefs on this program. Can I also, I do got to get, I get a great man like Kyler Phillips. Like the way he beat Pedro Munoz, you generally don't do that to Pedro Munoz?

Like, Cheetah Vera couldn't do that to Pedro Munoz. Like, super impressed by Kyler Phillips going out there doing what he did. Like, he's styled on Pedro and you don't really do that to Pedro. Like, you beat Pedro. It's like 29, 28, and it's usually, yeah. Like, no one really looks good beating Pedro Munoz. And Kyler Phillips did. Like, that was super impressive.

The thing that tells him back is just activity. He has fought like once a year for the last three years or whatever. and he hasn't gotten those opportunities up the rankings. Now he has, and now he probably will. And if it's any indication, Cheeto Vera got a title fight off of soundly beating Pedro Munoz. So little intra-jim title fight incoming with Kyla Phillips challenging Chana Mallory. That's how stuff works, right?

And I feel, and I feel my Giuliana Pena take is much like Jed's Brian Ortega take. No, no, no. Juliana Pena is, I think everyone agrees that she's bad. I'm the only person who can see that Brian Ortega isn't bad, and I don't know why the rest of you can't, but he's obviously bad. He just wins. You know what Brian Ortega has over Giuliana Pena?

A win over a fighter on the current roster. So just throwing that out there. He did. Though I want to say that this is actually his first, because I do believe that Yaya Rodriguez is the only dude Brian Ortega's beat that's still employed by the UFC. one more than juliana has it is but uh they'll be in the exact same boat if juliana beats rockell pinnington though it's all great because bannam weight has a has someone coming to save

the division in kela harrison i thought you're going to say jimmy's back what are you jeez she's coming back in like two weeks or three weeks oh i i've forgot that's a thing that's happening she also she also has a winner of juliana paying you just to kind of throw that out there Oh my God, this weight classes. We've gotten to that period of the show, Shaheen, where we just, yeah, we just look at who's in 135 and think, how is this weight class? We did an entire show on this last time, so let's, we're just going to go ahead and end it here. This has been another episode.

I have Montserrat and Don ranked with Phantom White. Good God. Real quick, where we go. Just so, you know, you said, Monce. Monserrat is in your Bansomway rankings. She's fighting. You know what Montserrat? You know what Montserrat has?

A win over a current fighter on the O.C. roster. Which is more than... Oh, right. That's why she's in the rankings. As are Melissa Dixon, or Melissa Mullin, sorry, Ney Dixon. I'm not letting us do this. I'm cutting this now. I'm cutting this now.

There's been another episode of the OMA fighting rankings show. We appreciate all y'all. As always, for jumping in, hanging out with us. you guys. Keep it locked to the MMA fighting podcast network. It is Apex Paloza over the next couple weeks as we get to this road to UFC 300. Get excited.

I know you are. For Jedmish. For Damon Martin. For the absent Alexander K. Lee. I am Sean Oshaddy. Love y'all. Love y'all. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

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