MMA Fighting - Rankings Show: Is Alexander Volkanovski MMA's No. 1 P4P Fighter? + Chaos At Lightweight, Middleweight!

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Who is the best fighter in MMA? For the first time in a long time, that's officially a debate. The gang returns after a monster rankings cycle to debate the MVP of the past six weeks and the biggest leaps up the MMA Fighting rankings. Co-hosts Shaun Al-Shatti and Alexander K. Lee are joined by Mike Heck and Jed Meshew to try to make sense of the chaos at middleweight, the new three-man race for the men's No. 1 pound-for-pound spot, and the changing of the guard happening in the lightweight division. The boys also predict the biggest storyline to watch over the next few weeks and much, much more. Catch new episodes of the MMA Fighting Rankings Show once every month. Follow Shaun Al-Shatti @ShaunAlShatti Follow Alexander K. Lee @AlexanderKLee Follow Mike Heck @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. Podcast Network. This is up, my friends. Welcome to the MMA fighting ranking show. I am Sean Oshaddy. I am joined by my guy, the Prince of Positivity.

The King in the North, Alexander Cayley. We appreciate y'all, as always, for joining us. A.K., what's up, man? How are we doing? Hello. It's kind of, it's, we're feeling a bit weird. Shane, we're feeling a bit weird. We kind of had to extend the rankings window for this month.

I think people might be a little confused when they see the rankings, see how many events were involved. Of course, you, you Americans had your lovely July 4th Independence Day weekend, which kind of pushed things back. So it's, it's, you know, people, we should tell people actually, people are getting, like, extra rankings content this month. That's probably the best way to, look at it right you're getting more bank for your buck this month guys because you've gotten some june

you're getting a sprinkle of july and you're getting a ton of movement and uh and debate as you will soon see absolutely i mean summer is in the air it's it's beautiful outside and you're right this is the biggest ranking cycle we've really ever had uh in case you guys don't know first of all this is our once a month peak behind the curtain into the m may fighting global rankings they just came out on wednesday please check them out uh and yeah okay this month it sometimes we are light on action uh during these cycles? This is not one of those cycles. Since we, last time we were here, we have had, let me count them, six UFC events, two pay-per-views, three PFL events, one Bellator event, and more. It's just kind of the way the schedule played out. But looking back, it was easily our

busiest stretch since we started this show. So because of that, we have a lot to hit too today. And so we're just jumping ahead first, AK. We're joined by our old pals, everyone's best friend, host of heck of a morning between the links mike heck what's going on mike hello guys how are you hopefully the power doesn't go out hopefully my wifi stays on i have just been dealing with all sorts of silly issues lately and hopefully with this ranking show the debate doesn't get so hot that it ruins all my electronics but i'm happy to be here well the debate might get a little hot because we are also joined by my guy jed mishu host of no bets barred and damn they were good. What's going on, Jed?

Man, I'm, I'm so excited because I knew I knew I was going to get to be on this, this month's version of this show because I cleaned house this month. I made a lot of changes to what, to what was going on, and I am excited to talk about them. Now, that's a tease. And you're not even joking. We're going to get into that in a bit. But first, before we even really like dive deep today, fellas, I wanted, I want to just talk about this. Because I mean, what was the long view like for you guys this month? Because if you look all across every division seemingly there was something going on. We had a new number one at light heavyweight. We've been debating for the past several months about who's the king of that division, whether it's Glover-Deshirea.

Does Corey Anderson have a case? Is it actually Uri-Brahaska? And here we go, Yariah Pahaska, coming in, settling the debate, cleaning up that mess a bit with one of the greatest light-heavyweight fights we have ever seen. Then you had chaos at middleweight, 11 out of the 15 spots, in hands within that division, that's incredible amount of turnover. We had big jumps by, I think, some big prospects, some of whom we've really seen coming, right? The Shafkak Ramanov's, the Mosvar-Evoivs, the Talia Santos's. We had a sea change start to really start to unfold here at the bottom half of the lightweight division, right?

With guys like Jalen Turner, Demir is Magulov, plus big jumps by the trio that kind of took center stage for a second with Fiziev, Gamrod, Sarukian, right? And we even saw something that I think we didn't expect, which was someone catch up to the king himself, Kamar Usman, and a new pound for pound number one be crowned on the men's side of the game. That is Alexander Volcanowski. So Mike, all of that, when you worked on your ballot this month, who or what was sort of the focus for you?

What was the MVP of this cycle? It was probably Volkadovsky for me jumping to number one pound for pound. I need to see it with my own eyes, but I felt very confident that if he went out there and beat Max Holloway convincing in any way that he would be the new number one pound for pound for guys. So I had to make sure that I kept myself in line, that I'm a man of my word. And I think that's exactly what I did here. That performance against Max Holloway pitched essentially a perfect game. So for me, Volcanovsky's the best fighter on the planet. Now if Kamara Usman goes out there and does the same thing to

Leon Edwards. Maybe we flip-flop a little bit, but as of right now, Volcanovsky with the activity, these last two performances, he's the guy. So that was probably the most pivotal move I made in all these rankings. I was right there with you, Mike. And I was right there with you from the jump. The moment you said, I think it was the night of UFC 276 in the Slack room, I'm doing it. I'm making Volk my number one. It was like, man, I'm with you on this train. We're going to do it. And he actually, in the aggregate, jumped up enough to become the new number one for the website. site. So we're going to hit that in a little bit. I mean, Jed, same question to you. Who is the MVP of this cycle for you?

What was the weirdest, hardest question for you? It's hard to put one single individual MVP out for me because to me the story of this cycle was, it's a new day, baby. We've got young talent coming up across multiple weight classes and taking over. And you see it with Johnny Ebblin made a huge jump in our middleweight rankings. I'm confident saying that. A bunch of lightweight change stand,

welterweight with Rachmanov coming up, but it was the lightweight division and the kind of debut of a bunch of, I don't, maybe not debut, but sort of the rise of a bunch of dudes there that are the next gen because I've been talking about it.

I hate that the top of the lightweight division has just been round robbing against each other and not letting the new blood get a crack. And so this month I've got Jalen Turner, Haffaille Fazeveh. Matush Gamma and Armand Saruki, and I think I have them all in my top 10 because they showed out, and that's,

I want to reward that. And frankly, I think that they are, like, the future of lightweight, which is the best division in the sport, is now. And it may take us a while to get there just because of the dynamics of that division, but these guys rule, and I'm stoked to see them compete.

Yeah, if there was one sentence to describe the way Jed Mishu's rankings handled this month. It was out with the old, in with the new, because, oh my God. Damn right. She's just kicking out everybody in the old folks home this month. Don't get old. If you want Jedmishu to validate you, don't get old. Ever.

Find a way to not get old. That's it. It's not hard. It's the only man who's ever done it. And the rest of you need to need to get on board with that train. Because I'm not doing this. You fight Connor two times and you get to hold on to a spot. Dustin Porier, you got to do some work, son.

Oh my God. Conor McGregor, the last remnant of Connor McGregor finally left these rankings by the way this month. That was another un, reluctantly news item we didn't even mention. A.K., the last guy who was holding on to Connor McGregor and is like when rankings, dropped him. And I honestly had to like go out of my way to do it. I didn't want to. I didn't want you.

I'll tell people now. He was in my number 15, my one point spot up until the bitter end. And then I was like, okay, I was like, I know people want him out. So this was like almost a political thing. I know people want them out. Listeners, readers, you guys, probably other people in the media. Because, again, I know, like, you know, Jed just called out Porreier for the two McGregor fights,

and obviously the criticism should go the same way. McGregor should, you know, how much credit you give him for losing two fights against Porier, one win at lightweight. Oh, no, I was at Welterweight. Has not even won at lightweight since Eddie Alphras? That is correct. Holy Lord.

Okay. So, you know, you can give them the same. You can give him the Soroni one. Right. It's essentially a lightweight fight, sure. Because that was a fake, fake welterway fight. Sure, sure.

He has like one actual UFC career lightweight win. 10 rounds with Mayweather. I feel like, you gotta factor that into the MMA rankings. Oh my God. No, so I was like, okay, you know, I love the PFL. OAM, Olivier Oben-Merccia has been putting in work. And I'm like, you know, wins against Nathan Schulte. He just beat the last two.

Good wins. The last two PFL champs. So I'm like, that's probably worth a ranking. And so when I decided to. bump McGregor out. I'm like, it's for a good cause. Like, it's not, it's certainly not unreasonable. And I'm sure a lot of the listeners would be like, there's, there's 30 other lightweights I would put above McGregor right now. And it's like, whatever. Well, they're not wrong. I don't agree. I don't agree. I don't agree. But I'm not there with it. Find you some,

find you find you a friend as loyal as AK is to these old guard guys. Because it's just, I mean, Gastilum Till, McGregor, you're just keeping these guys afloat. It's wonderful to see. And McGregor wins his next fight. Take the old horses out behind the barn and shoot them. That's what I say. In with the new blood. So let's start then at middleweight because that was really the craziest month for any division that I have ever seen when it comes to these rankings. And we've been doing them a year.

But it was the wildest one month change we have seen since we started this. As I mentioned, 11 out of the 15 spots changed hands. That's just unreal turnover. So let's start with the new guys because this is a new blood themed conversation at this point. Alex Pereira, Johnny Ebblin. Both coming to this month unranked. Pereira beats Sean Strickland, who we had at eight. Eblen beats Gehgar Musassi, who we had at three.

Pereira ends up getting votes all over the place. As high as number four, as low as number 10. Eblen, same thing. As high as number three, as low as number eight. Huge split here among our staff. Ultimately, Eblen winds up at five, Pereira, at eight. A.K., who did you struggle with the most? And who did it surprise you about how much you struggled with him?

I mean, it didn't surprise me, but boy, I didn't know what to do with Musasi. I think we all had to, we knew this day was coming. We all knew this day was coming. I think as recently as probably before the, was John's, oh no, the Austin Vanderford, probably before that title fight. I think Jed, you had mentioned it. We said like, it's so hard to keep Gayguard up there because we just know one random loss

to John Salter and Austin Vanderford or in this case, it finally happened, Johnny Eblen, he's going to drop down. He's going to drop down. Or, or we have to give one of these. Belator guys, his number three spot, which he's been holding on to forever. He has just been sort of our consensus, not on everyone's, not everyone's list, but consensus. Number three middleweight behind Israel and Disseigneur and Robert Whitaker. It's just the way it's been since we started doing the rankings.

So we knew this day would come. A lot of people loved Johnny Eveland as an underdog. Like I think it was very live. Like when he won, it wasn't like a complete shocker. It was definitely a lot of people said, yeah, you know, one of these guys was going to do it. And John Eblen among, compared Sultor, Vanderford and him was like the best one. So the struggle for me was, does he just take Musasi spot or does he drop or do I drop them? Do I drop Musassi way down and then have you know put Evelyn ahead of him?

I eventually decided on the latter. So this is one case where I did not just give overwhelming credit to a veteran. On the other hand, maybe I didn't give enough credit to Evelyn. Maybe I should drop Musassi down and put Evelyn in the top five. But I eventually settled with Evelyn at number seven, Musassi, number eight. And they got jumped over by guys like Muniz, Vittori and Derek Brunce has already been in the top five. Yeah, Muniz jumped over both them. So, yeah, it hurt.

That one hurt. That one hurt to drop Moose out of the top three, but it had to be done, I guess. So this was actually a pretty easy one for me. Because, again, the way I do my rankings is different than all of y'alls. The primary thing that I think look at is who would win in a fist fight, like, between the two of them. And I'm really pretty high on Johnny Ebblin. Like, I think he is a very good fighter. And certainly that win over Musassi, there is some part of that.

is Moose is getting a little older. He's losing his fastball. Yeah. But I mostly just think it was a really bad style matchup and a tremendous performance from a good prospect and not even a prospect at this point, a top five middleweight because that's where I think Johnny Eblen is. I think if he moved over to the UFC tomorrow, he would have a ton of success against a lot of the guys in that division.

He would be competitive with just about anybody. That's what I think of him as a fighter. That's what the, uh, the ATT team feels with him. And so I'm giving that credit as a win more than Gagard losing his fastball. Now, if you guys, you guys coming at it from a, what have you done, that is a much more difficult question. But for me, we said, it was pretty easy because I still think Gagard beats a lot of other middleweights. The tricky one for me was Alex Behea. Yeah.

Because I think he can beat a lot of dudes, but I also think there are a lot of dudes who could beat him. But then it just came down to this weird like, okay, well, he, by doing. definition has to be above Sean Strickland, but like, where's Derek Brunson in this? Because like Derek Brunson could probably just tackle him, but at the same time, I don't, I still kind of feel like I'd, like Alex Pereira's just a quote unquote better middleweight than this iteration of Derek Brunson, just at least with the ability to beat more people. So he was the one that was the biggest question mark for me. And I ended up putting him above some guys that I think probably could beat him like Derek Brunson and Paula Costa, primarily because I think if you, Alex Pereira, would kick the crap

out of Jared Canonier. And I think Jared Canaaner beats a lot of the guys below him. So it just sort of settled in it. All right, I'll put Pereira right in this kind of middle zone. But it could be all the way wrong. And it's super weird because that dude might well be the middleweight champion like by the end of this year. And he might be the most beatable middleweight champion since Michael Bisping, which is weird

as hell. and yet so middleweighty. It's so mid-so fitting for the division. It's the whole division just really knows what it is and lives up to it constantly. It's just like a matchmaking tour to force by the UFC matchmakers, if we're being honest. The fact that we were able to like have this discussion in a reasonable way. A plus work. It's amazing work.

It's because you're right. I struggle with Eblen and Musassi, but I sort of landed in a good spot with them. Like I ended up with Eblen at seven, Musassi at eight, and that felt right to me. Pereira, I had. no freaking idea what to do it. I think he ended up a 10 for me. Same with AK. That's the lowest of anybody. Mike, you had him up at number four and like I can't even hate on it. It's, I mean, that any other thing would make sense. But why number four? Why is so high for you? So I think I'm like the complete opposite of everybody where I feel like he's answered a lot of

those questions. And maybe, maybe he is beatable in some ways. But at the same time, I'm so impressed by how cool he is in these situations. UFC debut at MSG, Steen role. Had a tough first round. Understand it. Second fight against Bruno Silva. That's a tough second fight. That's a really tough second fight. And he gets out there, gets it done. Tough 15 minute fight. Then he gets Sean Strickland on the undercard of an Israel-A-Sahnia fight. The whole time he's asked about Adasani even more so than Sean Strickland. Sean Strickland becomes sort of the And I was just, I was really impressed by how, how much people were gravitated towards that fight more than anything else. Like I've talked about it a bunch of times.

Like, we don't like to go behind the curtain about traffic and things like that because not a lot of people want to hear about that. But even before Sean Strickland went bananas at the press conference, the intrigue and the interest from the MMA fighting viewers and visitors of the website, it was all on this fight. Even before the press conference. Not even close. Like it wasn't even comparable. It was amazing. And Pereira didn't care. Like he was just, he was just into it.

He was so focused, so relaxed. Sure. He was given a gift of Sean Strickland's horrendous game plan. No doubt about that. All time bad game plan. That's my question. That's my question for you, Mike, because I'm not confident prayer answered any questions because Sean Strickland just handed him a win in a silver platter.

What's he supposed to do? Say, Sean, time out. Forget about it. Like, why aren't you trying to wrestle? No, no, no, no, Sean. Stop. Take me down. I'm, he should absolutely.

have taken it. My question is, to you, how did he jump up so substantially in your rankings from what is a performance that can only be described as a gift to him? Not that he did bad, mind you, but that he didn't answer any questions for me, I guess, is the point. Like, I don't know if that dude can stop a takedown, like from anybody. I don't know if that, I don't know anything about him other than that he punches super, super hard. He might not need to. And and is very good at punching super, super hard. But he took, he was okay with the takedowns with Bruno Silva, who was shooting on him a lot in that fight.

So that answered some questions. And then just was the moment going to be too much for him when the focus wasn't on his opponent, it was on the champion? And he answered all the questions. He did it. At least in that end. At least in that end. Hey, listen, the man in three fights has earned himself a title shot.

So for me, he earns the spot. Now, could he go out there and just get 50, 40, from by honest on you sure and if that happens he plummets back down but at least from what i've seen over three ufc fights and the potential that this man has because let's put it out there he is a little bit older in fight years because he's got a lot of experience but the same token he's going to get better like he's only going to get better he's not going to get worse he's only going to get better those questions those parts of the game that he has shown thus far are going to get tested even more and i think he's going to improve on all of that so at least for now i'm going to be

comfortable putting my number four. Honestly, the harder question was, do I put Pereira for or Muniz for? Because I'm that high on Muniz too. So, yeah, I like both those guys. You could probably flip-flop those two guys, in my opinion. But at least for now, I'm very impressed with Alex Pereira. Sure, he didn't have to deal with takedowns and wrestling defense from Sean Strickland, but he dealt with it in the previous fight against the guy's really good at it.

And he did it over 15 minutes and still won. So I have questions answered from the Parole. rare side and just him going out there and starching Sean Strickland, no matter what the gameplay was, was big for me. So happy with number four, that could change, but at least for right now, I think he's the number four guy. If he got

matched up with like Muniz or Brunson next, for whatever reason. And then, but no, and then he would destroy Derek Bronson. He would absolutely mall Derek Brunson. Whoa. Unless, but unless, oh wait, he would mall who? He would mall Derek Brunson.

Derek Brunson would get one take down and as soon If his prayer gets back to his feet, Pereira will put his head into the 14th row. But if either those matchups happen, I would hope that, like, if there was just like, you know, a lot of striking in the first bit, I would hope that Alex Pereira goes like, pardon me, sir. Are you, are you not going to mix the martial arts? That's what that is, that is the kind of contest I say. I come from the kickboxing world. I've done this. I'd like to see some mixing the martial arts, please.

It would make him my favorite fighter. If like he actually said that and it was like caught on camera, I'd be like, okay. Muniz is different. Moonez is different. But if they, I mean, if those two guys stand. Pereira can just get up. If Pereira's takedown and Jujitsa defense is anywhere as good, near as good as Yariahalls, that's a different fight.

Like, that's a very interesting fight. I still would pick you me knees. That's an enormous if. That is a mistake. Yeah, we're making some crazy assumptions right now. You guys are asking the questions. These are the answers I'm giving. My question was just what he, what questions he answered?

Because I didn't have those same. We had different questions because I didn't have questions by his ability to handle the spotlight since he was a multi-division glory champion. I suspect that he'd be fine at that. My questions are still like, what if some dude doesn't just put his chin out there? And Sean Strickland did not help me answer any questions, which is why I still don't really know what the hell to do with this dude, because he might damn, he might just be the middle weight champion.

And he also could totally lose like 12 different dudes in this division. But he could also be, he could also be way better. He could also be way better than a lot of you are giving him credit for. I'm willing to take that risk on prayer right now. I'm still sitting here trying to recover from that Derek Brunson drive by Jesus Christ

that guy got smoked for no reason. And Uriah Hall too. Jesus. No remorse for the old guard on this episode. So I'm glad we brought up Andre Moonez though because we said goodbye to some old Star Wars to this division this month. Darren Till is out of the rankings now.

Uriah Hall out of the rankings. Kelvin Gaslam out of the rankings. And we welcomed him some new blood. two of which we've mentioned but also Driscus dupluses getting in there at number 15 Let's go But the one man who might be the dark horse Of the whole damn thing is Andre Monez

And it's clear that we are starting to see this very weird And interesting divide form here at MMA fighting Because I don't know if you guys noticed this But all four of us on this show vaulted Andre Munez into our top six At middleweight Jed you had him at four Mike at five AK and I

We had it at six The other half of the panel Totally don't believe yet We had two guys who put him at number nine and two who had them all the way down at 12. And so I just wonder, you guys, why the divide do you think? And are we on the right side of history?

Because I feel very strongly that we are. I am dead certain we're on the right side of history. My guess is the divide is strictly who he has beaten. Uriah Hall is his, well, I mean, Jokre is not his best win, but it seems like his best win. It feels like his best win. Because he submitted Jokre. But this was still Jacques Rehn, like he wasn't a top middleweight.

Your A Hall is his best win over a top middleweight. And did we have your eye hall rank last month? If so, he was bottom, he was in the top 15, but I don't think he was top 10. So, Monez just took a spot. So yeah, my assumption is the divide is, because my ranking things are a lot of projection, obviously. And apparently Mike is too, having just said that he's willing to bet on Alex Pereira. And I think that that's, that's just it. but I also think that you could just justify

to look at this dude and be like, oh, middleweight's mostly a bad division and this guy rules. So let's, let's, he's, I would pick him comfortably to be just about anybody in this division other than Robert Whitaker, Israel Dissinia, and Marvin Vittori, uh, just because Marvin Vittori is like,

the perfect ideal of what middleweight is. Just a big blockheaded wrestle boxer. And that's just like, Maybe this joke last week on No Betts Bart or maybe it was it was before 276 that Marvin Vittori is just like he Sean Strickland is is a bad version of Marvin Vittori and Marvin Vittori is like the perfect version of what Brad Tavares always wanted to be and and that makes him very good and difficult middleweight and I think Andre Monez would struggle with that but I think you beat the hell out everybody else I think Munez will be the middleweight champion by the end of next year. Whoa. I'm a big I'm a big I'm a big of the Charles Oliva train That's not even that big of projection

I don't know the face Mike just made made me Feel like it was a very big projection I think he beats Perera knocks out Izzy Are they they're not gonna run that back again They're not gonna do a fight Immediately they will Yeah they will

You don't think Izzy is gonna get an immediate rematch He will get an immediate rematch Maybe that seems so hard If the way you're selling this fight Is this dude's already beaten him twice before and then he goes and colds him, and you're like, all right, let's do it one more time. Either way, if he beats him a third time, he can beat him a fourth time. And then it's open season because, like I said, Alex Pereira is vulnerable.

I'm not saying that man can't win. And maybe he develops into that. But I don't think it's that big a stretch to predict that Monez has the title by the end of next year. Yeah. And I don't even think that needs to unfold that way. I think Izzy could beat Pereira, I think, and then if he goes to Telet-Heavis, that clears a path. I would pick Muniz to beat Vittori.

I would pick Moniz to beat. I'm just looking at your rankings like who's ahead of Robert. I would absolutely pick Moniz to beat Robert Whitaker. I think he'd actually be quite a bit bigger than him. Striking obvious an issue, but I just don't know if Whitaker. And Whitaker's got good wrestling.

I don't know about his defensive wrestling. I mean, he's that good. I know he's got a defense. I shouldn't say that. But I think Muniz is a whole other wrestler. Yeah, but I think Moniz is a whole other beast. He was an Australian national champion, just so we're clear. Name another Australian national wrestling champion.

I mean, that's still just, I'm sorry. I didn't realize we're just shitting on people being national champions now. This is, this is, this is like me saying this guy's the CFL MVP. It's like, does that, oh, yeah. That's probably really good at football. Does it? Well, hold, hold on. How well, how well would you do in the NFL?

Wait, wasn't like Kurt Warner the CFL? That was an AFL. No, that was arena. Oh, was it? Doug Flutty, baby. Doug Flutty. Yeah. A role player and a fun guy to have around in the NFL.

No, there's a gap there. He's good. I just think Moonez is on another level. I'm not saying weirder because of bad wrestler. I just think I'm Moonez I think would take him down and submit him. And guess what? I think he'd do it to Izzy too. So I'm saying even if Izzy retains and I think he stays, I think Mooneys is that good.

I think he is. I know what you're going to say. I should have ranked him number one then, but I don't quite have that. That's not how you rank people, so that's fine. Okay. That's a high rank. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's not how I rank people.

So I couldn't go that level. but I won't have to because I think by the end of the year he will be number one. I'm that high on him. Last thing on this. And then we can move on. Mike, what do you think of this growing divide we have here at MMA fighting over this guy? I mean, I get it. It's probably this. You could probably compare it to Pereira in a lot of ways. I'm pretty consistent on both guys, but it's funny seeing

I guess I get it. Like, who is a Gie? Gierremae putting your knees at 12 is really surprising. He's not super surprising. He's hard on his own guys. He's hard on his own guys. What can he tell you? He's hard of the resilience.

I think he course corrected because he didn't want to be seen as bias. Because that's the only explanation to have him that freaking. He went way too far the other way. He dropped him down? How did he go down? He went down in his ranking. Oh, yeah, he dropped him down in one spot. He has Sean Strickland ranks higher than Andre Meadee's right now after getting bolted by Al's Kempare.

I mean, it's... So we're clear. He dropped him down while also removing Darren Till from the ranking. who was above Mooneys last. Who jumped up there? Who jumped up there? Eblen. And Pereira.

Because Evelyn and Pereira both debuted. Wow. That's interesting. Okay. Yeah, interesting. I get it. No Brazilian bias.

No Brazilian bias at all. Anti-Brazilian bias. We got to check that. We got to look into that, I think. Yes, we got to check those tapes, AK. But yeah, I got to see it's voting record now. The face I was making it AK was not because I don't think Muniz can be the champion of the world because I think he can.

It comes, I just don't think he's going to get his chance of the next. year. I agree with you. I think it's going to be he's going to have the Marab de Walsh Willie build where he's going to get a win over a top 15 guy next maybe a top 12 guy and then no one's going to want to fight this guy and it's just going to be a it's just going to be a nightmare for him to get up those rankings skill skill wise I think he could be the champion for sure I just think it's going to take a little bit longer that's all I'm with you on that one it doesn't feel like the UFC is going to be interested in doing too many favors for Andre Moody's anytime soon but we'll see no no black

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As we said, ever since we created these lists more than a year ago, the one constant has sort of been Kamar Usman's name atop these men pound for pound ranks. He's sort of the sun that everyone else orbits around. And it was like one of our only unanimous votes on the website, too. Like it was just never a debate, always every month, eight first place voice votes for Kamar Usman. And now all of a sudden that just blew open this past month. He got some first place votes. So did Israel Adasania.

at Alexander Volkanowski. And the way that the point system internally works, when we do these rankings, Volkanovsky was higher in the aggregate, just enough to push him into that top spot. But he ended up with 153 points, and Usman ended up with 152 points. No one else was even close compared to those two.

It might have just been our most polarizing debate internally ever. That's my bad. Damn. Mike, you went Volcanovsky this month at number one, as did I. Why do you think we? we saw what we saw just in terms of this all just blowing open. Like, why did the dam finally break now for Camaro? Like, how do you go from eight first place to four in a single month? It was probably the same way that Oosman got into the number one spot.

And what I mean by that is Ousband was so active that he was fighting all the time. It was like every three months, we were expecting a Kamar Uspin title defense. And that's what we were getting. And he was going out and winning fights. And he was beating the way he was winning these fights as well, finishing Gilbert Burns. is Coling Jorge Mazadol, beating Colby Covington, who everyone, for the most part, feels, is in a world without Kamar Usman, Covington is the best Walter way in the world.

So those add up. The activity adds up 100%. We haven't seen him since November. And I know that doesn't seem like all that long ago, but Volcanowski has fought twice since then and has pitched a pair of perfect games. That title defense against Max Holloway was great. But the title defense against Korean zombie was incredible. It was one of the top 15 title defenses I've ever seen.

The way he just, TKZ had nothing for him. And then Volkinovsky blew the doors off of him. The fight could have been stopped on multiple occasions before it was actually stopped. And it was a mercy stoppage in the fourth round. That was an incredible title defense, especially in a fight where TKZ built it up to the fact where people actually were like, we don't think he's going to win, but we think this is going to be really competitive because he has a secret that nobody seems to know what it is,

the way he's selling this fight. And Volcanowski is like, you can have all the secrets you want. I'm still going to blow you out of the water. And that's exactly what he did. So I think the activity helps. And it was the same reason why I got kind of blasted by Damon and some others when I put Schenko as the number one pound for pound fighter over Amanda Nudas because Chivchenko is fighting.

Not only was she fighting, she was winning. And she kept winning. And then inch by inch, she just took over the spot because she was active. And I feel like Volcanowski skill for skill wise, there is an argument to be made that he is the best fighter on the planet. And even Jed has gone as far as to say, you can make the argument, Volcanozky might be the best fighter we've ever seen just for now, like right now, like the potential to be one of the best fighters we've ever seen in the sport. And you can make that argument. But right now, him and Usman are very close, but I just feel like these last two performances

of Volcanowski, the fact that he has two fights in 2022 and Usman has not fought yet this year, puts him in that spot, and you can make arguments either way for them. But yeah, I'm fine with it. I said that was going to be the case if he beat Max Holloway in any. way convincing matter. And that's what he did. And he did it more so convincingly that a lot of people thought he would. So yeah, he's the guy, but Usman's knocking on the door still, no doubt about it. Yeah, it does, it does feel like it's one of those things where obviously he wins by one point in our, in our scoring metric. And again, a lot of that may be activity. So like Usman fights in August, he wins. Usma, this might be fleeting. Like we might just be talking about Kamar Usman

retaken his spot in a few months here. But for the moment, it's Volcanowski's pound king. Jed, you went the other way, though. You kind of zigged where a few of us, zagged you and izzie and actually one other person joined you in that in that crusade why was izzie the new number one for you because uh i will also say hand up it's my fault that volk is number one now because uh i put him as my number two and that was against my own methodology just because i wanted to reward what was quite possibly the single best performance we've ever seen um in a cage fight. Like his,

his win over Holloway was honestly, like one of the five best fight like performances I think I've ever seen in the totality of it. And so I wanted to reward it. He still should actually be my number four

based on the way I do this, which is essentially a point scoring methodology. But I wanted to reward that. Francis Inganu wasn't fighting until December, so it kind of felt dumb to keep him ahead of a dude at being as active as Volk is. And I did it under the assumption that

should Kumar Usman defend his title, he'll just retake the spot above Volk, and then it'll be fine. But like I said, I wanted to reward that. The reason I want, Izzy, though, is it wasn't close.

So I do, like I said, I do a point scoring system to total my pound for pound because the way I view pound for pound is your dominance and your, like your victories over your peers,

so your divisional compatriots or whatever. And it's not close. Adasanya is the only dude is the only person other than Valentina Shepchenko who has actively cleaned out a division he has fought everybody he has five wins over people we currently

have in our, well maybe not currently because of the changes but over top five middleweights in our rankings he has fought a diversity of people in the rankings well let me pull up our exact middleweight rankings right now so I can eyeball the numbers he did so where are we at middleweight he has two wins over the number two guy he's got two wins over the number three guy he now is a win over the number four guy johnny eeblen at five he obviously hasn't he has a win over the number six guy uh and then who else does

does he have anybody else in our top 15 now costa number 10 oh costa and the number 10 so that's that's that's what five top 10 wins is that right off the top of my head plus doubling up a couple of those nobody else is even close to that bolkenhouse gets three wins over max holloway um which great, I'm not here to say those are bad. Those are obviously sensational, and he's got the Ortega win. It's five top five wins, but three or four were top five wins, three of them over the same dude. And he's got Korean zombie who is number 10,

but honestly, that doesn't even feel. Like, one, zombie might actually be retired. Also, it feels weird that zombie's number 10 in our rankings, right? So to me, it's just, if you want to put Max number one because you think that skill for skill, he is the best fight on the world. I have zero argument. This dude may actually just be the best fighter we've ever seen at this moment.

But Izzy has simply done more. He has done more to clean out his division. He has shown more dominance over more people. And even if his performances aren't exciting, Volcanovsky's fight was much better than Max Holloway. It wasn't any more dominant because Jared Cannon-Ear wasn't, had the exact same chance of winning that fight as Max Holloway did. zero. They both controlled pillar to post the whole fight. One was just more fun to watch.

And I can't, as much as I want to doc easy points for being a little bit not interesting lately, I just can't because what he has done is so impressive and so so much better than his peers that I have to call him the top pound part in the world. So I hear what you're saying. And I'm interested because I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but in regards to almost reflecting it on Vogue, right, where it's just a level of dominance controlling just this division with an iron fist and also the strength of schedule because activity and the strength of schedule, because you look at his strength of schedule, it's utterly absurd. You got Max three times, Korean zombie Ortega, Josealdo, Chad Mendez, Darren Elkins.

Like, it's just a really impressive run. But my question to you, Jed, would be how do you not hold the loss against Izzy, right? Like, it's a different division, but. It's a different division. It's a different division. But Camaro and Volk are both. both undefeated in the UFC. And that to me speaks at least some level of that nudges him over the edge for me.

So that is how I justified putting Volk above in Ganu and Usman is, well, he's functionally undefeated or whatever at Featherweight. But truth be told, like, I don't dock easy points because it was a different division because he moved up and tried to do something. And frankly, I think if Volk moves up, Islamakov will beat the holy hell out of him. Like, just because Volk hasn't done it yet, even though he's going to be. going to try, that loss doesn't negate it anymore in the same way that Usman hasn't done it yet. And if either of them go up and then do it, then I'll have to reevaluate because I do give you credit

for wins outside of your division, especially if you're going up and claiming second titles or whatever. But for me, it's, I don't give, I mean, he gets credit for the Aldo win, but the Aldo win was forever ago and also Aldo's now a bantam weight. So there's some, and then Darren Alkins is like that's a solid win but his his wins that matter in terms of my view of pound for pound which is what have you done for me lately over the people you should be fighting he he beat max three times and it's not his fault because that's just sort of how it broke but that's why I said after the fight I want to see him defend because I think he can and would if he stays at featherway I think he could put together an unbelievable run etch's name is one of the all-time

all-time greats if not the best fighter of all time but he's got to do it right now because he I I sort of doc I don't dock points from the point total but I do it makes me feel weird to be like hey obviously Max Holloway is the second best featherweight in the world also obviously you are tailor made to beat this dude so show me some more variety show me some other guys on the list and hopefully we'll get that soon and I think there's absolutely a world that coming up he is going to take the top spot but But it's the numbers, and he doesn't have him right now for me. Yeah, and just to quickly add to that, I will say, yeah, I don't like the idea of punishing someone for going up to try and win a second title. Like, that seems like a strange cause. It's, we're essentially saying, well, why didn't he just stay at middleweight and, like, fight Derek Brunson again or defend against, like, Jack Hermanson?

Like, would that have made, like, that we're, like, we're rewarding that as opposed to, again, him going up to try and fight the best light-heavy weight in the world. So I'm with, I don't think of that. I don't think of those. I would just, go ahead, Sean. Because for me, it's like, in a debate like, the margins is so thin, right? Where it's, you look at the, you look at the three of them,

it's actually ridiculous how close they are in stats, where Volcanowski's 12 and O in the UFC four title defenses, Usman's 15-0 in the UFC five title defenses, and then Izzy is two and one with five title defenses, where it's like that's the one loss among the three, that has to count for something to me. Like, it's not like we're saying, Izzy is trash, but it's just like,

we'd rather he's 13 and O and like he has two wins over Derek Brunson or he has another, like a win over Jack Hermanson. Like, how does that strengthen his resume? Like that much right. But if he beat Janbovich, he's probably everybody's number one pound for pound fighter. So we reward him for a win, but we don't dock him for a loss. I don't understand. That was a all reward, no risk move.

He is docked for the loss, though, because that is, if, because if he had stayed at middleweight and being Sean Strickland or whoever, he would be ironclad my number one. He, the opportunity cost of trading one fight in a division that he can get a win to pursue something else, he lost that. He's still just ahead of everyone else because he's simply done more over the top fighters in his division as far as my scoring goes. And again, I'm not here to say that he is the most skilled fighter or whatever, though I think he is obviously tremendously skilled and talented. But it's just the way I am rewarding and viewing it is beating the people you should be fighting, the other best people in your division over time. That's how I set it up and that's how it felt the most just to me. because it's hard to eyeball. It's easier for me to eyeball fighters in the same division and be like, oh, I think that

dude would beat that dude. It's a lot harder for me to be like, well, if we put a, stuck a pump into Volcanowski and puffed him up to 185, he'd kicked the shit out of Israel, all this. And, you know, it's just like, that's really, it's really difficult for me to do. So I just figured this is the best way to do it. But I've, like, I have no issue with any of you guys putting them at number one. It's a fun debate, yeah. Because it's totally reasonable.

I don't I functionally do not think you can go wrong with any of the top four any of Addisina Wokinovokinov, Ustman, Orangano, being your number one. And if you want to throw Charles Oliver in there, I do, yeah, a huge issue with that. Like, I don't have a problem with him. Like any of those five, if you want them to be your number one, I think they're close to interchangeable. Just, I'm just sticking with Izzy until he gets knocked out by Alex Burrow. A.K., you were one of the Usman holdouts.

When you look at what we're doing here, this whole past 15 minutes, is it just boredom, do you think, for us? Like, is that why this mass exodus this month? I mean, there's boredom. There's recency bias. But I mean, recency bias is in MMA is like it's, it's almost like a fair thing to have. Like, because the sport now, especially now, moves so, so fast now. So for me, again, it's been a broken record. I'm very rigid with my rankings.

It takes me a lot to, like, move people and dislodge people. So I really would like to punish Usman for somewhat in that well I want to say inactivity. He does have the Leon Edwards fight coming up. But it's a fight that's so it's so low on the Q rating like meter that I literally just forgot about it until I said it. Which is a bad sign. It's or Leon beats him, right? It changes everything. But it's a guy he's already beaten too.

I know it was a long time ago. You could say they're different fighters. I don't think they're that different, frankly, from the first meeting. Well, I think it wasman maybe Edwards. I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, but but yeah, it would take something for me to to drop Usman or or other guys just like kind of piling up Mortel defense. So like just said, they're so close.

They're so close. And Ganu, Charles Olivera, the guys who just mentioned Volcanowski at Disina. Yeah, it's really, really close. So for me, because it's that close, it's almost like, you know, in a, in a, you know, a real sport where you're, they're trying to overturn the call. It's like, I don't have enough evidence to overturn the call yet. I've called it Usman at number one for months. That's a phenomenal analogy. I don't have enough evidence to overturn the call yet.

It's getting there. It's close. It's borderline. But because I initially called it Uzman number one, I will stand with the call in the field, as it were. I love it. I love that logic. That is A plus work. The tuck rule, okay.

That was your tuck rule. I love it. God, you guys have never forget. You'll never forget it. Who would have had the Canadian on this show leading by far in NFL references, right, at this point? Also, CF. Well, that was obvious. CFL.

Football references, yeah. Pro football references. All right, fellas, well, I mean, as we said, I mean, it's totally possible Camaro just retakes this spot in September if and when he gets past Leon Edwards at 278. So this is all going to be fleeting maybe. But either way, it's fun to hit for the moment. Last topic we want to get to today.

And we alluded to it at the top. Lightway's getting real fun, y'all. Like, it has always been the best division in MMA. But the one complaint that we have had recently in particular is that this old guard is sort of squatting on their numbers and holding back the new blood. And that's still kind of happening. Like that's, I don't know that that's changed too much, but at least this month we saw a little bit of glimpse into that bright and wonderful new future, right? We got Jalen Turner in here. Damir Isma Gulov in here. They're both of them debuting at number 13 and

14 respectively. And then you had the trio of Fizzi of Gamrot, Sarukian, vault all the way up to 7, 8, and 9. And suddenly the bottom half of this division is just looking all kinds of fun, getting me all kinds of excited by the possibilities. Jed, you alluded to to it earlier, but you went all in on these dudes. Like you, you just went full, you went full all in. You had Gamrod at three, Sarukian at four, Fizzy of at five, you had Turner at nine. Explain to us why you love this and why you're not crazy with your rankings here. Because time is going to make me a genius.

I am, I am early on this right. You're ahead of the curve on this. By any definition of what they, if the way you're ranking is by who they've been and thus where they deserve to be ranked, I am, I'm ahead of schedule. but these are the new like I said these are the new people these are the new guys and I think if you

again the way I do it who's gonna beat it and if you put if you book tomorrow Fiziev versus Gachi the fight that Fiziev once I'm taking Fisiev and I have been driving the Justin Gachi bandwagon hard on this site for a long time

but I just think that that's how this goes at this point I feel extremely confident that uh serukin and gamrott just tackle you know dust and poey to the ground and sit on him and beat the hell out of them from the top like that fight between gamrot and sirukin you know fight of the year contender uh i i only ranked gamrod ahead of sarukin because he technically won it but i mean those two dudes are are the identical as far as i'm concerned and where their ranking should be and the only guys about the only people in the lightweight division i'd beat i'd pick right now to beat that trio is Charles Oliver and Islam Akachev.

And if you could convince me, they could, any of those dudes could beat, could beat Islam or Chucky. Like, you could absolutely convince me. I was a little more cautious on Jalen Turner just because we have seen him falter in a sort of in a substantial way before. But I, I damn near just put him right behind the, like, I was almost just like, we're just going to go all in on these dudes. But Jailen Turner is going to get back in there.

he's going to get somebody and when he gets that win he's going to join that because this is the new guard these are the dudes who are going to be at the top as soon as somebody gives them their chance who's right now dust employee and michael chanler trying to fight each other despite the fact they're both getting super old for this weight class and haven't beaten like other people in the way class that are good recently like chandler's living off kicking tony ferguson who hasn't been in my rankings for a minute it's just like i want to see these new guys come up and I am extremely confident that in two years, this, my rankings will be like what everyone's at.

I'm just ahead right now. What do you think about that, Mike? I love everything, Judge just said. I was a little more cautious here. I was high. I think I was like two or three spots higher on Surukia on last month than everybody else. I was just, I was just that sold. Yeah, you're taking a victory lap for that one.

You knew it. And I'm still that sold. I'm still that sold. Like he dropped one spot because. Does Gamrod, quote unquote, beat him, which I've watched that fight four times now. And Gamrod did not win on either of those watches. So I'm just throwing it out there. And I'll say this again.

I set on onto the next one. You can make more of a case for a 49-46-Rukion than you can't afford to be a 47 Gamrod. But that's neither here nor there. Anyways, those, I agree with everything Jed said. You can put those three guys wherever you want them. But all three of them at worst should be in everybody's top 10. I have Fiziv at 7, Gamrod at 8, Sarukyana at 9, but you could flip-flop either of those guys. I just feel like Fiziv getting a win over a former champion, being up 3-1 in my scorecards,

and then just bolting him in the fifth round and putting a pretty durable guy away who doesn't get really destroyed like that at 155, like that in the fifth round, when the gas tank and all those things were the biggest questions we had about him, I think that just holds a little bit more water currently. But if you're asking me who I think will be champion first, I still feel like Serookian will be the champion first out of either of these three guys. But man, lightweight was always fun. And as Jed always said, lightweight's the best division in the sport.

But now you insert these three guys. And now you insert a guy like Jalen Turner and Isma Gulaf might be as good as all of them. We just haven't seen him get tested and put in a big spot like that. So 55, like this, we talk about next generations in these divisions, 35, 45, 55, 55. God, 55 is ridiculous. I can't wait to see what this division looks like in two years with Armand Surukin as the champion after having three wins over Islam Makachov. Yeah, dude, because people like Grant Dawson are just like also lightweight.

I don't know if you, I don't know if you guys know that. He's also an insanely good fighter. Playa Playaeus. We keep forgetting. Calliopeas. Yeah. Like this is there. Yeah.

Lightway rules. The young upcomer Jim Miller is on a tear. Like, it's just everywhere, man. Jim Miller is, is time itself. He will be here forever and always. I see you, I think Jed, maybe you were the first one to finish your rankings this month. First or second. I know Mike was on it early too.

I saw your rankings after you finished it and it like energized me to almost be more bold than I was going to be beforehand with some of these guys. Because I totally agree with you. and I just don't have the balls yet to sort of jump them into this top five zone that you put them in, but I want to very badly because I feel like this is where we're all headed. And you summed it up really nicely where it's just like, this is the future. Like a year from now, this lightweight division is going to look really different than what it looks like right now. And we admit, you know, get ahead of the curve or whatever, but it just feels like we're in the midst of something happening. AK, you've admitted just a couple times in this program, you hold on a little bit longer than I think some of us when it comes to the older names and the

older guard. How tough was this one for you in terms of figuring out where to put these younger guys? Because Fiziev ended up being number seven for you, but the rest of these guys were outside of the top 10. Yeah, you know, it wasn't that tough. It's pretty, it was fun. It was fun. You know, again, I hate to drop out the old, man, am I, I, I'm just looking at my own rankings now. Do I, am the highest Ferguson guy. Oh, me and, me and, uh, me and Stephen and Stephen, I was just looking at this and, and I need to have a conversation with both you and. Well, Steven's like me. Stephen's also pretty, Stephen's also fairly rigid with how he does his ranking so probably more so yeah i was looking out Tony Ferguson

deserves his spot was cowboy june 2019 Tony Ferguson's election he deserves a spot forever his last three upon is his last three wins seroni Anthony pettis and and uh rafel and uh excuse me kevinly those are not those wins are good were good at the time and have not aged well and they're so far apart 20 now what they mean 2019 2018, 2017. And Kevin Lee was five years ago now. So it's a, it's, yeah, it's, I'm, I should, I'm probably about ready to let go. The thing with me is he just, he's, he's, he's been getting good matchups, you know,

against other names, right? So he hasn't lost to a Surukia and he hasn't lost to his Magula, but Jalen Turner. That's, you know, that's really, you know, that's really squat because nobody is, I know, you're right. You're right. You are 100% correct. They are squatting. Uh, and look, they're putting in that work.

They're putting in that work to just take the spot, whether he fights or whether he wins or not. The same with Gillespie. The punted Tony Ferguson right on out of our ranking. Gregor Gillespie is also hurting himself by not fighting because he has definitely had his spot taken by some of these guys. And I know he wants a big fight. He's just not coming.

No, and he's eventually just going to slide out of it. He's sabotaging. Yeah, he is sabotaging his career the way that he has handled this. I want to say he was as high as like eight or seven at our rankings at some point. And like he is just falling out. I don't know how low he went on all of your guys, but he is plummeting. I see he's out of the top ten for you, Shaheen.

Yeah. Stephen has him out of the top 10. It's kind of across the board, yeah. The only reason I have him as high as I do is because I still think he's really good. Yeah, he is. He has absolutely cratered his own career. That's so unfortunate. But yeah, of this bunch, yeah, look, it was very fun to put them up there and rank them.

I don't know about the title talk. I don't know about like how many guys are guaranteed. Surukia on probably my pick. I'm just so, so high in him. And I love the bumps that he's taken early in his career. He's the youngest, too. And honestly, these losses that he's taken. taken are the kind of losses that make you better.

Like, they're going to make him so, so, so, so much better. I don't feel like they're hurting his confidence. I think they're only going to help build his confidence. Yeah, the upside is because the age, like Jed just mentioned, is incredible. It's going to be a while, though. It's going to be a while. You guys know I have this whole grand plan for Oliver to be Makachev and the Habib comes back, and that's going to take all of 2023.

But by 2024, it might be Surukia on time. So just so we're going to happen, Andre Muniz champion by the end of the year, Armand Sarukian champion in 2024. 2024, or at least gets a title show. Fight him, Mike. Fight him. At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans.

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Please feast responsibly. Last thing, though, we'll put a bow on this conversation. Just round rob it quickly. It might kind of hit this already, but just among these five guys who are, at least for this month, sort of representative of what we're talking about when it comes to this sort of changing of the guard that's happening. Who do you guys think will challenge for the title first, but also who do you think will win the title first? Two very different questions there. Mike. I think Fiziv will challenge first, but I think Sariqia will win her first.

I think Fiziv just, I think they have something here. I think the UFC knows they have something here. I wish they had a little bit more fun with the name thing. I know we've all talked about that, the Raphael-Hafiel thing. They should have done a little bit more at that other than just posting on social media. But I feel like if Fiziv gets the Gaci fight, which considering timelines and Gachi getting surgery on his nose this month, I think there's a very good chance he gets that fight. it's either going to be on a pay-per-view, maybe it's at MSG, maybe it's a fight night made event.

And I feel like if he beats Justin Gaci, he's a win away depending on if we can have a champion crown by the end of the year. Like if Olivera does fight Machachev or if Machetechap or if Machetechap fight or Oliver fight fight, like I feel like by the time that the cards are laid out, Fiziv could make a case of just literally getting a title shot in his next fight. So I feel like his path to a title is going to be shorter than the other two guys. But I feel like Fizib probably loses to Makachev or Olivera. Welles, when Saurukian finally gets there, 2023, 2024, 2025, he'll be 27, 28 years old, and he'll be primed and ready to go. So I think Fizib gets the shot first. I think Souroukihan will end up becoming the first champion out of this bunch.

What do you think, Jed? I think Mike has picked the safest options and probably agree. I'm going to go ahead and agree with him on the Fiziv is the first to get one for all the reasons he said. Do you think he's probably one went away. But I'm going to go, going to go Dark Horse. Give me Jalen Turner. Let's go. The first one to actually win the belt.

I'm on this train with you, my man. I feel very confident that Fizzievel challenge. my issue is I think Fiziv is going to challenge against Mokachev again and I think Machchav is going to beat him and I think Fiziv will probably get an opportunity and may well do may well win but Jalen the physical advantages Jalen Turner has he is already starting to maximize extremely well and I think you give him a couple more years to develop and really fine-tune this style and even prospect like Saurukin who is an unbelievable a plus blue, what's the term I'm looking for?

Whatever. Blue chip? Blue chip. That's the word I'm looking for. Blue chip prospect. I think Jalen Turner is just, I love what he can be and the way he's developing. And I think his style is a bit unique and gives him more of an opportunity to turn that,

to convert that into a championship. So give me Jalen Turner as the first to hold the belt. I am so glad that we're on this train together, Jed, because I am right there with you. I didn't, anybody who's going to pick Jalen? Love the tarantula. He, dude, he, this is a guy who snuck into into 276 just under the radar, right? Four straight first round finishes, but it was kind of this,

Lucé Road. I've said this couple times, but this Vicente Lucay type of road of just like this quiet ultraviolence. But man, like you spark out Brad Redell in 45 seconds, like people are going to start paying attention. I think that's where we've reached with this guy. We're six foot three, 77 inch reach, 27 years old. He's just coming into his own. He knows how to use his size, his length for the division. It doesn't even feel like it's hard for him to make lightweight somehow. And the dude is massive in there. And he is just timing, speed, like pre-natural, finishing instincts, all of this.

Like, I am all aboard the Jalen Turner train. And I agree with both your picture. I think Fizziv probably will be the most likely because he's almost there. Like, he's basically there. I think he could beat Justin. What's up, Mike? I just want to say one thing. I skill-wise, Jailen Turner's a monster.

Like, this guy's really good. He's actually exceeded my expectations, which are already really high before he came to the UFC. He needs to be more like interesting in today's times. And what I mean by that is he has a great story, the tarantulas, the stakes and all that stuff, great. Skateboarding, awesome. But when the lights are upon him, he's got to say something interesting. He's got to call out a name. Like I know it's not like him.

He doesn't have to be a prick about it. He doesn't be like, oh, you took everything I work for, MFer. now you're going to fight me he's got to call somebody out like you you got to you got to get names out there you like surukion gamrod fazeve like they made headlines because they called out justinge they have names in mine jalen turner's just like me me you know the ufc's going to give me a fighter and uh i love the ufc they're great organization and uh you know hopefully you know hopefully uh i'll be healthy and and and hopefully my improvements will be there like his turner voice is fantastic I love Jalen Turner as a fighter, but he's got it.

Like, I just feel like his road's going to be super long until he actually like marks a bullseye on somebody, like moving up the ranks. Because otherwise, I feel like he's going to have to fight the Isma Goulovs of the world are guys, fringe top 15 guys for a while. And that's not fair to him skill-wise, but this is a business where we have to sell pay-per-views and get eyeballs on the product. And as good as Jalen is, as a fighter, I just don't know. know if he's that guy that's going to draw a lot of casual interest and be in that position for the

UFC. So hopefully he gets one more win. They give him a step up. They give him a big spot. He calls somebody out. He makes those those pivotal moves on the microphone and behind the scenes. And if he does that, I think you guys both have great compelling points from a skill perspective. I just don't know if the interest in Jalen Turner is going to get him there as quickly as he should be. I actually think he evolved past the Ozmigulov type of fights at this point with that 45 second one. Like I think the next one is going to be a surprisingly bigger name than we would expect. Yeah, I'm with Sean on that. I'm with you, Mike, and that he needs to be more interesting because every fighter should try and be more interesting.

But he, I mean, there are different ways, right? He is, I would not categorize Armand Sarukian as a dynamically impressive Mike performer. Like, or Matush Gamrot. I think Gamrot's probably a little better than Siru Kian there. regard but like neither of them are are getting you to buy pay-per-views because of what they're saying it's just that they're incredibly good uh jalen turner also not doing that but he's just been five finishes in a row he's absolutely clobbering people uh and i think that's that's gonna get him the move up uh as quickly if if not more quickly uh and then that's i'm i'm super stoked to watch all these

dudes fight like that's i want to see jeline turner like that fight tomorrow jeline turner He's so big. He's so big. How do you beat a main? But also, like, I don't want to see them fight each other. Like, the Gamrod-Serukian fight was fun, and it was cool, and I'm glad we did it. But, like, that's enough. Give these guys the older guys.

Like, let's do old guard, new guard for a while. Because I do not want to see these. We don't need to cannibalize each other. We don't need to cannibalize. And I'm fine with it. Can I just say, Jalen Turner, don't listen to these guys. Never change. He's such a nice.

He's such a nice young man. He's so nice. He's so well. mannered. He's a pleasure to interview. He's such a nice guy. No, don't call anybody out. Just be polite and say.

You nice this doesn't get you paid, A.K. Mr. Dana, whoever you want, he's such a nice guy. He's such a nice guy. He's such a nice man. He ever says, whoever the UFC wants, their management, if they had management that was worth a day and should punch them in the area that would cause a five minute break.

Just do that every time and condition them to be more interesting. Especially in a spot like this, where it's like a crucial crossroads type of thing. I know. Absolutely. Because Jalen, if you're listening, do not let this horrible, horrible business change you. Please, Jaylen, that's all I ask. It's a fair point. It's a fair point.

Because if he would have gone out there and sub that dude in 45 seconds and then been like, Justin Gachie, you're taking everything I worked for. Like we would have just been talking about him fighting Justin Gachy at that point. Yeah. I don't, but I don't even need him to yell it like Michael Chandler. I just need, just say it. Manifest what you want in this reality. Do not just come in and be like, oh, whatever.

I don't care. Like, that's lame. no one thinks that's cool. Just add the words. Just add the words. His mom thinks it's cool. Just add the words would be a lot of fun, and I respect him a lot. And that's fine.

You're not changing who you are, but you're still calling out a name. Just say, I think it would be dope to fight Justin Gachie, like that, because it would be. It would be super cool or whatever. Or Piori or Chandler or whoever. I know Dustin Poy is a little too famous for me, but like, I don't know. I want to scrap. scrap with you because like that'd be cool like just do that or dar you do that i would anybody yeah yeah i want to fight him and then skateboard with them darrush because darrush will have to

fight you because they he's not getting the fights he wants either i'd love to fight him and go to the skate park with him after that's fine that's funny and fun there you go boom we got it fight him and play a game of tony hawk afterwards see how it goes okay what about you in terms of this question who's quickest to the title shot but also who's quickest to actually be champion Yeah, I mean, I can't argue with the Paziv thing. He's putting himself on the path. He's saying the right things. He's being the right opponents.

He should get a big opponent next. So definitely, I think he's going to get it first, even given my wacky timeline that I presented for Charles Lever and Habib and all that. And I know I just said Strukeyan, and I still stand by that. So I'll just give a second option. I think Yamrod's a little sneaky. Regardless of what you think he won that fight or not, I know it probably didn't really go his way. I think he's sneaky.

And I have a habit, frankly, of underrating KSW guys. And I love KSW. So I don't know why when it comes to, like, you know, people asking like, oh, well, how do you think they'd fare in the UFC? I'm usually pretty like, I'm pretty, uh... Your hardest on the people you love, I understand. I guess so. Like, just like we and all the Brazilians, apparently. Just like he.

Yeah. I, uh, yeah, I mean, you see apprehensive to say this guy could be a champion. But like, like, look guys like him, Roberto Soledich. I mean, Roberto Solich, for me is completely believable that he could be a top five guy in the UFC. So he is absolutely be a champion. He is so good. He is definitely. Also.

Oh, he's not ranking. He's number 14. He'll be number 14 this month. So yeah, so for Gamrod, even though, yeah, there's definitely some improvements in these two made. There's something to be said about having that big shows. KSW is so huge, you know, in Poland, even around the world now, but definitely in Poland. They really do the stadium shows right. Like they do it big.

They do it right. They treat their guys like stars. And there's something about having that confidence and being treated like that and bringing that to the, having that already when you come to the UFC. That I think is so big that other guys that guys like Syrucian, like frankly, just don't have. And I'm not saying that's the biggest determinant in becoming a champion. but we're talking about mentality with like Jailun Turner, Suryuky and guys like that.

It goes a long way. And I think a guy like Gamrod could really, with the right matchup, kind of sneakily like finding a UFC title. Like it would not be surprised me if it would happen someday. So I'll kind of make him my number two choice. And I think it'll seem surprising when it like, the fight gets booked. But then when it finally happens,

we'll go like, yeah, man, this Garminor guy, like, he's serious. And yeah, I got to stop underrating these KSW guys or even guys like Gear Phrashka, I underrated him. And he from Risen. So I don't know. That's on me. So I'll maybe overcompostating here But I'm getting camera on my second choice

Behind Seru Kian. I love it I love the fact that we can have this discussion Because we've been waiting to have some type of discussion Like this in this division for so long Guys how about that he's coming up Gets he's got to get that leg right He's coming back up

That's why it's going to take forever Because he's going to get a friggin title shot again And it's just And they're like 30 dudes who would kick the absolute crap out of him These to me These type of moments when we're seeing These type of changes these masks changes between generations are the most fun to me when it comes to MMA.

Like when you see old guard, new guard, just complete taking over, like, who's going to sink, who's going to swim, who we thought they were, that type of thing. I love all of it. I think it's so fun. Last thing here, and then we'll get out of here for this month. Just very quickly, Mike, quick predictions. Set the table for me really quickly. I mean, who do you think will be the story of the next three weekends?

Because our next ranking cycle is at the beginning of August. At a normal time, we kind of got a little screwed up with the schedule. Who do you think is the story of the next three weekends? Wow, that's a terrific question, Sean. Jeez. Let me take a gander. I will say, I'll say, yeah, you're Rodriguez. I'll say, yeah, you're Rodriguez.

Because I think, and not because, like, he's going to get shot up through the rankings, but he's going to be a talking point. It's going to cause a debate about one, four, the conversation of who deserves what and who has earned what. Because if Yaya Rodriguez beats Brian Ortega, he's going to get the title shot. He's going to. Like in any way, shape, or form. Yaya Rodriguez wins this Saturdays fighting Volcanovsky next for the title.

It's not going to be Josh Emmett and Josh Emmett and Yerai of favor. And everybody can make a strong case that Josh Emmett, quote, deserves it more than Yaya Rodriguez. But I think Yaya going out there and getting a win over Brian Ortega, which I think he will. It's going to be a really good fight, but he's going to be the guy, and Josh Emmett's going to be sort of left out in the cold once again.

And in Emmett could probably still be ranked above Yaya Rodriguez. So I think Yaya Rodriguez is going to be an important talking point heading into August. And yeah, just off the top of my head, I'm going with him. I like it. He's telling us on the MMA hour earlier this week that he's guaranteed a title shot by the UFC if he wins this fight. So it's already that right there for him.

Jed, story that we're talking about next time this month or next time next, this time next month. I mean, I don't, it's hard to argue

with what Mike said, but I think that the real answer is, is the women's band-and-weight title fight at the end of the year. Like, there are other fights that are going to, to matter and be substantive

and certainly Curtis Blades, Tommy Aspenol, that could be huge. But the thing, like, if Pena does again, the next ranking show is going to be talking about Pena about where she belongs in the pound for pound

because I think to some extent everybody's given her credit for that W like nobody's taking that away from her but I also do sort of feel like in the women's pound for pound Pena some people have her as low as like seven or whatever like that she's very much impending kind of everyone is trying to figure out if this is a fluke

or a real one so if she goes out and does it again I think Pena is going to end up rocketing up to top three pound for pound. Like I think that would probably happen and will have solidified the number one Bannamweight spot clearly. And if Nunez does it, then it's okay, well, how much do we count losing, but then coming back and getting the win? What does that mean?

And what that means for Bannonway moving forward? Because whoever wins, the Valentina Shepchenko thing is now, is still looming over that division. So I think the women's Bannamweight title fight at 2.70. seven, that's probably going to be the biggest single thing that happens in the next three weeks. I was when, Jed, you mentioned Spania's low as seven. I was like, who has Peña at seven? I'm like, oh, it's me. I'm the one.

You had Peña at seven? Pound for pounds. I was saying, what do you mean? Who has it? I was like, who did that? I'm like, oh, it was this guy. And I stand by it. I stand by it.

Even though I didn't remember it until now, I stand by it. But regarding your question, Chaheen, I'll tell you who we're going to be talking about next month. And it's a bit weird because I almost did it. No, no, I was going to do it for, you. Well, no, I thought you were going to do that. That's why I didn't do it. I was really surprised you didn't do it. I know that we were going to sing the top of espinal. But I think we and I are, but you and I think are both picking Curtis Blaze probably to win that fight. Um, no, but on that, but on that card though, a young man who it's, it's, it's, it's weird because it's my fault actually that he's not already ranked. I'm partially responsible. And I love this guy.

You are single handedly responsible for why this man's not. I'm not. No, listen. This is this This falls on your, this far as on your shoulders. There are eight panelists in, all right. Other people could have ranked him higher, okay? I don't have him ranked at all yet, yet. But I am telling you by this time next month, when we were talking, doing this show again, we'll be talking about the action man, Chris Curtis being finally ranked as one of the top 15 middle-lates in the world. Well, I mean, I should say long overdue.

He's been funny at 170 for so long. He's just kind of fallen ass backwards into middleweight right now. He's just rolling with it, I guess, until he can't. anymore. I'm sure he would, he plans to drop back down to 170 in the future, but why? I mean, why? He's been so much fun in middle-late. He's been getting great fights. He has this opportunity just handed to him to fight Jack Hermanson, a very tough matchup, but a huge, huge matchup that I'm pretty sure will be the co-main event. It's a really good matchup actually for him. I do too. He doesn't get submitted. The guy doesn't, he just doesn't get submitted.

I know people think he's like a, yeah, he's known as a striking specialist, but yeah, he's an elite stand and bang guy. Like, he's so good at avoiding takedowns. Um, he's a play. Um, he's a Plus athlete, which you know, Jed, you and I put a lot of emphasis on. Like, you go a long way to be a good athlete. Yeah, you go a long way in combat sports being a plus athlete. It's a super cheap. Oh, yeah, yeah. Especially middleweight, heavyweight.

If you're a plus athlete, even low, lighthead. 185 and above. 185 and not being a plus athlete is the biggest cheat code you can have in the sport. I cannot wait until two of the nicest guys meeting the Octon, him and Jackramats. I love both these guys. But I think Curtis gets to win. And we are going to be, we're going to be talking to his crazy ride continues. I'm okay with you not having Chris Curtis ranked because at your number 15 spot it's it's

Hennie 8 to hit it and that was going to hold on oh god all I'm saying is Chris Curtis if you're listening to this Mr. Curtis Mr. Man Mr. Action Man don't don't don't don't don't this Johnny come lately is not on your side I have interviewed Johnny come lately it's not a straight if he had kicked out Darren Till or Calvin Gastilum Chris Curtis he's ranking to put you in you would already be in you know I'm a real one I talked to you after, I talked to him after the Contender series, his loss, he should have been signed. I talked to him. I'm a big fan.

We're pretty much best friends, even though that interview was like five years ago, whatever. I'm a big fan of Chris Curtis. I know this is not good journalistic behavior, but I admit it. I'm a fan. I like Chris Curtis. I want him. I think he's going to win. I want him to win.

He will have a ranking. He will have a top 10 ranking in my ranking. Yeah, that's a thing. And yes, one of these people. You know what? You know what? but Haynie or de Hidair may have to take the hit. Jan, I don't know.

We'll see. We'll see unless I finally decide to take out Darren Tiller, Calvin Gassel. I mean, you should definitely get rid of Darren Till. He beat Calvin Gislin. He beat him. What could I do? Yeah, I mean, you could get rid of both of them. That'd be okay.

Let new people breathe, A.K. And there we go. We went full circle. What about you, Sean? You didn't tell us what your big thing for next month is. I mean, the answer is Peña Nunes for sure. Like, because I think all of, us i said it when you were speaking jed but it's pennia's in this weird spot right now where she's almost

impending for a lot of people like like is this real was this a fluke did she actually beat amanda nunes like this like what are we talking about because it's so because there's still several women who could beat her also she got the hell beaten out of her for like the whole entire first round in that fight so it's just like other other referees might have stopped that in round one like that is it was weird not inconceivable that an early stoppage for for nudes could have could have ruined all of this for all of us. So, but altogether, like, it's a pretty short little cycle we have ahead of us, but it's actually really compelling in a lot of fronts,

because I like the, I like the Aspinall Curtis Blades fight as a headliner for London. The interim flyweight fight? Get the interim flyweight fight. And also the Ortega Yair, as Mike said, it's just tremendous theater. Because the U.S. he's been trying to give Yair of Rodriguez a title shot for like three years at this point. And so is he going to finally take it? I need him to win. I need him to win so bad.

I can Ortega. Is that financially you need him to win? No, it's, it's if Ortega wins, then Ortega is going to like, We're going to do the Volcanovsky thing. It's like, folk. I know. Just fight, fight new people. Fight different ones.

Like, just fight, Aaron Allen or Moffser I have a live or any of the, because we didn't talk about featherweight that much and we don't need to at this point, but like talked about lightweight, the new guard being here and being awesome. Featherweight has a bunch of new guys coming up hard and they're going to be great. it's a bit of a similar issue in that weight class. And so I just want to see Volk fight those dudes instead of fight Brian Rotatega again. With you.

I'm right there with you. All right. Well, that wraps up this month's episode of the MMA Fighting Ranking Show. We appreciate you so much for tuning in as always. We're going to be back, as I said, early next month, first week of August, back on the normal schedule. The pay reviews are kind of throwing us off. But we're back to it. In the meantime, keep it locked to MMA fighting.

as mr jed said says often it's the best website in the whole damn world it's a good it's good time you should check it out uh my name is sean o's shoddy that man is jed m'shoe that man is mike heck for alexander k lee thank you once again keep it locked in may fighting we love you guys and we'll see you soon