MMA Fighting - Rankings Show: So About This Conor McGregor vs. Michael Chandler Situation... | Plus, Dana & Jon vs. Islam & The World

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

The MMA gods have a wicked sense of humor. Podcast pals Mike Heck and Jed Meshew join co-hosts Shaun Al-Shatti and Alexander K. Lee this week to unpack the inauspicious double-dose that struck Michael Chandler over the past few days, with the status of Conor McGregor and UFC 303 hurled into doubt just as Chandler was removed from MMA Fighting’s lightweight rankings for inactivity. The gang talks the latest whispers around UFC 303 (5:20), tries to figure out the best back-up options for the event, and debates whether even a best-case win for either man could get them back into the rankings. Then, the crew sifts through the wreckage of UFC 302 to determine where Islam Makhachev vs. Dustin Poirier sits in the Fight of the Year race (44:30), figure how it became Dana White and Jon Jones against the world (54:30), plus much more. Follow Shaun Al-Shatti @ShaunAlShatti Follow Alexander K. Lee @AlexanderKLee Follow Mike Heck @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. Podcast Network. What is up, my friends? I hope you're out there. Having a great little day. Fantastic little day.

Here, just crushing your goals, living your life. This is the NBA fighting. ranking show. I'm Sean O'Shaughty. It has been too long. Crazy times, busy times, but I've missed you guys.

And we have a fun show today. And we've got the game. Of course, my co-captain on this journey, the Prince of Positivity, the King in the North, Alexander K. Lee, also joined by our old friends, the gruesome-tusom,

the podcast pals, Mike Heck, Jed Michoud. Coming off another hectic weekend, hectic past few days. How are we looking, fellas? How are we doing? Guys, I am really excited to talk about The Ultimate Fighter 32 season premiere.

Thank you for joining me. Tough Hang is back. I don't know. Connor Burke sadly could not join us, but I'd really love to get your guys opening thoughts on the first episode. I know you guys watched it a lot. I tried to arrange and watch along. You guys didn't respond.

I messaged you guys on Slack. I did a couple of times. No one got back to me, so I think it didn't go through. I think our Slack was having a glitch or something. Can we even watch it? Is it out? I mean, we're in the media. We have special access.

Of course you can't. I mean, why are you asking? because you did. I did not. I missed that one. It's my off day, so I haven't gotten a long time. Okay, okay, okay.

That's fair. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Mike, I know you did. So you have any thoughts about Grasslost Schochenko.

No, I have no thoughts, but A.K., you've somehow become the most important person in the industry because no one, and I mean, no one is going to watch a single second of this season. What? But they're going to rely on you to provide those recaps so people could just read it on MAAfighting.

com, just avoid it all together. This is going to be a pun completely intended. This is going to be a tough hang, AK. This is a news to me. This is a lot of show on television. I heard. Let me just say, AK, that I got a lot of respect for you because if the roles were

reversed and I was in your position, the only way that I could keep getting up in the morning to do my job with regard to tough would be to make stuff up in the recaps and see how far I could push it until. someone made noise till sheen was like hey jad did you just said like this thing happened and i'm not sure that it did is that true it's like i got caught finally like that's what i would be doing because i think you could really push that envelope if you wanted to and no one would call you on it you'd be like did valentina sheschenko really like bring a rifle to the gym and shoot out the tires on elisa grasso's car is like yeah i mean honestly i hope she does that would be electric television

A hell of a prank. It'd be a hell of a prank. Really? A.K., you are, I think Mike's right, you are providing like a fundamental service for the industry at this point because I'm pretty sure that you are the only person left that watched. I didn't even know this thing started until you announced it with great glee to our Slack Room. Also though, I do, like, because, you know, I've known you a long time.

I'm well aware that this is a bit from you at this point that you, there's no like fundamental part of you that like really enjoys this anymore. And so the fact that you are still willing to live. the gimmick to this degree and that it's just not worn on you. And you're just like, all right, guys. Like, I know I've been the tough guy, but I'm pretty over it. Can I just not do this? I respect you for that.

I don't know what this bit is that you're referring to. So I don't know. That's confusing statement. Sheen. You can't break K-Fab. Can't break K-Fib. I get it. Respect.

Anyway, fellas, let's talk about some stuff. We submit a busy few days, y'all. We had UFC 302, and obviously we tend to focus on the aftershocks of the weekend. For these post-paper-view ranking shows, right? I see there's still a few dangling threads out there from UFC 302. We'll get to that in a bit. But the big news right now,

and really, I think the only proper way to start this show, is with what is going on right now regarding this next pay-per-view, UFC 303. And I'll tell you what, fellas. Sometimes the MMA gods, they just really like to be out here doing shit to get a laugh. Like you can't make this up sometimes. Within effectively the same 24-hour span,

we come to find out that this UFC 303 situation, everything, all of this might be in jeopardy, this long-awaited Connor McGregor return, totally shrouded in uncertainty as we sit here recording this on Tuesday afternoon. And then at that same time, Michael Chandler crosses past our own 18th month window for inactivity for the MMA fighting rankings, the global rankings.

He has not fought since November 22. He has spent the entire time during that span, waiting for this one fight. And now he is booted out of our MMA fighting lightweight rankings where he had been number 10. And just the confluence of those two things is, I would say, both poetic and either sad or hilarious, depending on where you've stood on this whole McGregor-Channler journey. So I suppose I'm just going to throw it to you, Jed, a wholly unbiased and unopinionated bystander in all matters, Michael Chandler, that is you.

What is your reaction to everything that has happened over the past three days? No, Sheen, I do pride myself on being a measured, reasonable man. And so looking at all of this and, as you said, the confluence of this stuff happening while, oh, no, he's out of our rankings and having multiple. people reach out to me and say, hey, guess what? Michael Chandler's out of the rankings. You can pull him. I think the only true and rational response is,

this is the best, boys. Oh, I'm coming up aces. Mushu is in the house. Let's go MMA gods. Woo! See you at the bottom, loser? Was that too much? Was that too much?

Maybe it was too much. That was the measured, um, Classy response from Jed that we expected when when this news came up, I think. Mike, do you are you saying, would you like to offer a cackle as well? I mean, I'm just cackling. It's, it sucks for a man. Like, I'm going to play devil's advocate. It sucks for Michael Chandler.

He's, I mean, it's almost, it would actually be better if Michael knew what was happening. Like if Michael found out when he got that phone call, when he was big about to head out to the airport to go to Dublin for this press conference. If he was told the fight was off, I actually would feel better for him because then at least now he's got a little bit of time to sort of figure things out. But now that he just has no clue what's going to happen,

whether or not he's going to fight on June 29th, whether or not he's going to fight Connor McGregor or fight somebody else, it's so much worse right now on the day that we are recording this, that he literally has no clue what's happening from all accounts. So I feel for him, man. And if this is one of those things where he's told, because I know Ariel's reported that there are sort of positive vibes on whether or not this fight's going to happen, but the UFC

is putting out feelers. And I've been told something similar. In fact, as we record it, as of 9.30 p.m. Eastern last night, I was told the fight was still on. Ariel kind of piggyback that as well. I just, if they're going to cancel, they just need to cancel, man. And then let's just move on at this point because you have so many different events going on that week, not to mention just everything Michael Chandler is going through. through just waiting.

I know he's training and lifting to weights and doing all the things that Michael Chandler would typically do. But quote Martin Luther King, all these different things. That just tells me this is a man who has no idea what's going on and he's being as cryptic as possible. And I know Jed got a cackle out of this. I got a cackle out of him.

But I just feel, you got to feel for the man. You just have to. Unless you Jed. Unless you Jed, but most normal level, headed folk should feel a bit of pain for Michael Chandler right now with what he's currently going through. His last post was just so sad, not even the MLK one, the one after, just planting seeds of doubt,

hashtag UFC 303, and then walk on is his phrase, I guess, that he has used several times going to this event. It's just so sad. He's not the most electrifying, I mean, Twitter anyway, but it just came off as extra hollow with all this uncertainty and with Connor seemingly holding all the cards on whether this fight will actually happen on June 29th. Seemingly. Seemingly. Seemingly. We don't know.

The whole deck, all decks with all realities. Connor has held them since day one. Jed, I have to say, for the people, you are a real sicko. While AK was talking, I saw, I was watching your eyes as you clearly pulled up Michael Chandler's Twitter and looked at the recent post and got the wildest B-Mew smile on your face as you saw it. Look, you don't have to feel bad. I feel great.

So, like, we obviously need to be careful with how we approach this conversation, right? Because I think we need to be careful with our speculation. Like you, Mike, everything I am hearing right now is that this can still happen. This is all of this is still up in the air. I think we can't speak much on where things are. I think we need to choose our words carefully. But it does feel like there's a real chance right now that this could swing either way. And the fact that that is even a conversation point after.

this long. I mean, these dudes were on the ultimate fighter. What, beginning of 2023? Michael Chandler is not in a place in his career where he can throw away two years like this. I mean, Mike, if you're Michael Chandler right now and you're out there in Deerfield, Beach, Florida, just like you said, lifting heavy

things, what is going through your head right now? You thought you had this. You thought you had this, man. I think that him and his manager have to be like, he needs to be like Vince Chase and his manager needs to be like Ari Gold, where their base his manager needs to fly out to Las Vegas,

go to Hunter Campbell's office. I don't even care of Hunter Campbell's taking a shower in his office. You lock yourself in that room and you stay there until a Hunter comes out and you get an answer face to face from the man because this, it's just brutal, man. Like I said, it's almost better for him to know that it's off because then he can move on accordingly. But if he has to wait another week just to try to figure out and basically live off of the

media's reports on what is going on here. And hopefully he gets something back from this. the UFC who typically in situations like this are they keep things pretty tight to the best. I don't know, man. Like, I honestly don't know. Now, I don't know what's been offered to him. I know, again, there's people online hoping that if this falls through, Dana being a little cryptic at the press conference saying, hey, we're working on a BMF title fight that maybe

Max Holloway steps in to fight Michael Chandler. And that would be like fun. Like, that's at least fun. But, man, you got a $20 million gate right now in last. Vegas. Is Michael Chandler versus Max Holloway going to fulfill the happiness of the people who paid $1,600 plus to go watch this event? I don't know. So if you're Michael Chandler, it's just a tough place to be. I guess you have to pray and hope that Connor shows up. And who knows if it's an injury or an illness? Like nobody knows anything right now. We can only speculate and there's some

reports that have come out, but I'm able to confirm any of that stuff. So you just hope that Connor is able to make it. You just hope that he's able to make it. And if not, the big decision, Shaheen, is do you continue on with this trek after all this time? I mean, once you get pulled from the M.A. fighting global rankings, that's got to be the end of the line, right? Do you just try to stay on June 29th? Do you hope they rebook this and have faith that Connor can make it or whatever the reason that we're even in this situation may be? I don't know, man.

Like, it's confusion, it's anxiety, one would assume. Even a guy as positive as Michael Chandler, who's got all these different posters with sayings on his walls everywhere, I'm sure in his entire household. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Well, what if you don't get the ball? Like, what are you supposed to do then? I'd like to see the motivational poster he has

if the ball just vanishes in thin air. That's the poster I want to see. And wherever that is, I hope Michael's reading it, and he's taking pictures of it and looking at it every 15 minutes. I mean, Mike, that's a great argument, except for it's not like he's in the game. Colin, hey, pass me the ball. He sat his own ass on the bench. He could have been doing any other fucking thing for the last two years.

He said, nah, I'm a check out of this game. I'll check back in when Connor checks it on the other side. But until then, I'm going to kick my feet up and wait. And oh, shit, now it's been two years of the last remaining good years. He did it to himself. It's all his own fault, baby. I don't know if I completely agree with that. Honestly, you know how much, even though AK,

we talked about the other bit fighter and we talked about how much it means to you and only you, there's only one other person who believes in it and has as much energy and positivity towards the show. And that is Dana White. That is Dana White. You and Dana White have something in common, AKA, you're the only two people who truly care about this show. And if once you get through a season, you have these two coaches, Dana White will jump over any hurdle, any hoop, matter if it's on fire to try to get the two coaches that coach the ultimate fighter if it's a

feasible thing. If he promised this fight, he's going to try to make it happen. So I don't, yeah, maybe there's part of it to blame with Chandler. But I also think there's a big chunk of this to the UFC trying to tell Michael Chandler, hey man, just hang back a little bit longer, hang back a little bit longer. He's going to come back. He's going to come back. He's going to come back. If you have to wait until September, like wait till September, but it'll be no later than that. So yes, Chandler could have fought and he could have lost the big payday in the red panty night but i think there's noise in his head as well saying come man just hang out hold out a little bit longer you're going to get your big payday you're going to get your big fight but but see here's the thing too about all

of this and this is i think been lost in this whole discussion in that like it was the ufc's conscious decision to wait this long it was the ufc's decision to hold this fight forever and forever and forever and keep delaying it to find the perfect spot because everything has to be in this perfect spot within this schedule that they have. And now here's the dirty little secret about this situation that we now find ourselves in. And this is not something I had considered until our colleague, our good friend, Damon,

brought this up to me. It's just like, oh, Jesus, you're actually right. If this doesn't happen in 303, we're looking at probably like, what, December, potentially? Like, pushing, this can cannot be kicked down the road to a certain degree because you look at the pay-per-view schedule. We already have it lined up, right? After 303 is 3-4.

Manchester. That's basically done. After that is Perth, 305. That's more or less coming together right now, and that's not a thing that Connor McGregor would be on. He's not fighting in Australia when we have all these other Australian New Zealand options. After that, 306, that's the sphere. They're already putting together things for that, and I don't think they're going to try to get a Connor McGregor fight in the sphere, which can only hold a certain number of seats, can sell a certain number of tickets. You could only put those prices so high you're losing money if you put Connor McGregor in the sphere compared to other things. At that point, you're looking at an MSG, right? John Jones, he's supposed to be on that.

John Jones is not going to co-headline. They're not going to throw John Jones and Connor McGregor on a car together just because that's their two biggest cash cows. At that point, man, again, you're looking at like December. It's out. It's done at that point. Like, the year is over. It is now or never.

It feels crazy to say that about a June event. But this kind of has to happen now if it's going to happen. Unless Shaheen, Connor McGregor loves the mountain top so much that he's willing to fight Michael Chandler in Salt Lake City. because you know they're going back there at some point. It's just a matter of when. They're going to do two pay-per-views in one of these months, whether it's going to be in October or they're going to do it in,

I don't know when they're going to pull the second one off. But if Abu Dhabi is late October, it would not shock me that like the first Saturday of October, they got to go to Salt Lake City. Salt Lake City is paying them a boatload of money to go host events and there's no slots for it. So it's got to go somewhere. It was supposed to be where the Manchester card is.

And they had a change face and, change locations. So are we going to do Connemar Greger versus Michael Chandler in Utah? In Salt Lake City? In Utah at elevation? I mean, Jed would probably get a kick out of that. But I mean, Salt Lake City? What are we doing here? It's this whole thing is wild. There's one location that really screams forged Irish stout and proper 12 and really just the entire ethos of Conn and McGregor. It's Salt Lake. City, Utah. What's Chandler's tequila brand?

I'm sure it's poop. I'm sure it's terrible. Can I say, now that you presented that scenario where like this could take an eternity for this fight to actually be rescheduled. Like, we are so justified in removing Michael Chandler

from the rankings. Because we've had this come up before on previous episodes where we're like, oh, well, this person crossed the threshold, but they are scheduled to fight in like two months. And we've stuck to it. I don't think we've ever, I don't think we've made exceptions for anyone. I think we've always removed them. And then sometimes they get removed and yeah, they fight two months later, it can put right back. Chandler was such a weird one because we're like, oh, he's fighting in three weeks. He's quote unquote theoretically fighting in three weeks.

And so we had a little bit, I think, of an internal struggle of like, should we even bother? But then that was before Monday, before the press conference got canceled, before all this stuff happened. And then we realized like, yeah, there was there was never any guarantee that he was going to get the chance to fight again in June. We all knew. We knew when this fight was booked. We're like, okay, Connor McGregor is returning supposedly. Michael Chandler's finally fighting supposedly. There was just a lot of like air quotes around it, a lot of sentences ending in question marks.

So I feel really good about Chandler. Not because I have anything against him. I feel like this shows our system is working. I feel like when you stick to the system, the enemy fighting ranking system, we will not lead the people astray. So right now, again, Michael Chandler, not in the rankings. And if he doesn't fight in June 29th,

he's not going to be back for a while. I also, I just want to put this out there because I don't know that you were talking around to Shaheen, but to me, there are two viable answers for here, and either is entirely speculative. One of them is, I think, the answer that most people think is happening is that, well, there's been some sort of an injury and the reporting has been very, very quiet. But to me, if it's an injury and they think he's going to try and go around it, then they, that, that, that, I'm trying to think, what sort of injury would be like, can't do a presser. He broke his arm and it'll show up in a cast. And so that's a bad look. I guess that that's viable.

To me, there is another very obvious reason based on what Connor's been doing the last little bit. That would happen. And I am, again, no knowledge. Don't know this. But if it's that reason, this won't be something we can reschedule for at least six months based on historical precedent.

So like our best case scenario if this doesn't happen in June is December. Best case. Possibly much longer another year or just maybe never. Maybe that this was the one time and Connor something has happened. And now Connor just says, F it, man, already got enough money. It's too hard to do this. I'm out.

So a lot of stake in the next three weeks here. I just thought I had a hilarious of the image of Connor showing up to the press conference in like a neck brace and like it's like it's a minor injury he's fine that would be that would have killed me that's the part of it that I can't understand like what's injury okay

what injury would prevent a press conference like if they're going to try and work through an injury outside of him visibly being in a walking boot or something like and at that point honestly you could just take the boot off to walk across stage and it would like you could feels like it so that's the part that's weird to me I mean, I'll just say as a man who recently tore his ACL, there are plenty of injuries that you cannot hide.

And there are plenty of injuries with a man. No, I agree. But they're not injuries you can't hide, but then can get in a professional fist fight in three weeks later. That's not necessarily true. There are plenty of injuries that if, say it just happened, you would be for like a week kind of very noticeably injured. But by the three weeks, you could sort of mask it to some degree. Like there are plenty of options on that table, especially after treatment. and all sorts of various, you know, like going to,

what was the thing like Kobe would always go to Germany to get like weird knee stuff, right? Like there's, if you have the money, there's a lot of options that I don't have available to me with my ACL to fix this situation, massage the situation over the next three weeks. Also, I do want to revisit something that you were alluding to. You didn't quite say it.

But, you know, I think I'll echo what. I'm not casting aspersions. I'll echo what others have said in that everything I'm hearing is that this is not anything nefarious. this is not anything related to, say, videos of Connor in a club or something like this, that this feels very on the level of what is going on. Mike, what's your gut telling you? Like, how does this play out?

I'm going to say the fight happens. I'm going to say it happens. June 29th. Connor might not be 100%. No one's going to care, honestly, as long as he shows up, does the press conference, does the way in, tries to kick Michael Chandler, while Dana White's in. between them and then makes the walk to a biggie small song and gets a new a fist fight with Michael Chandler.

I think it happens. I do. I don't have any insight here. I think we're probably 50, 50, 60, 40 maybe that it does happen. But I'm going to, sorry, AK, I'm going to be the Prince of positivity here. I'm going to knock on the proverbial wood. And I'm going to say this fight happens. I was knocking on wood, Shilow.

There's no one knocking at the door. Sorry. Sorry. You brought that on yourself. Yeah. I sure did. It was going to happen. Like Michael Chandler, you've brought this upon yourself.

Shane, let me say, I'll be happy to not be the Prince of positivity and say, I don't think this fight is happening on the 29th. I'm so, I'm now 6040. This ain't happening in the 29th. And as you guys suggested, it might not happen. As Jen was saying, I was like, yeah, I, it might not even happen in December. We're going to be hitting like over two years from Michael Chandler now waiting for this opportunity to fight Conner Greger. It's just so insane. And the good news for everyone is, again, I'm usually very, very wrong about these things.

So maybe I'm reversed jinxing in a way. Not that I believe in that. But yeah, I, the silence around the situation is quite disturbing. And again, I know there's reasons why people can't speak on it. But it's, boy, it was so sudden that cancellation of that press conference. And I'm just getting bad vibes. Getting bad vibes. We've been saying for so long that Michael Chandler waiting for this fight as just a bad idea, bad idea, bad idea.

even when he got it, there was very few of us who were like, well, he showed us. He showed us. He got the fight. We were just kind of like, okay, well, it's happening. And also, I think a lot of us were still in the mode of like, until they step into the cage, I'm not celebrating anything. And I'm very much in that mindset right now where until I see them in there touching gloves and actually throwing hands, I don't think it's going to happen.

So, listen, UFC hasn't say anything official. Connor has said any official. Chandler's side is the only side that's reaching out to people. And they've said, we don't know what the hell's going on. It's just terrible signs all around. It's not happening on June 28. And that's the thing that it did feel like there was an element of testing fate to it this whole time for two years. We have been in this industry long enough to know that the MMA gods do not care.

They do not care about us. They do not care about our good vibes. They do not care about vibes whatsoever. They're going to do what they're going to do. And this feels like it could be maybe the quintessential, worst possible version of that. ultimately, I'll say, I think I'm with you, Mike. I think I'm right now on June 4th, Tuesday, at a spot where this will happen, come hell or high water.

I think they will figure it out, and Connor will just grit through whatever he needs to grit through, and this will happen. I would say 60, 40, yes, that's sort of where I'm at. But, and this is a big butt, God help the UFC if it doesn't. Like, they better. hope and dream and pray and invest

every dollar they have right now to trying to make sure that this works because I'll tell you what, if this doesn't work and you have an international fight week, card built around again, international fight week, the Hall of Fame ceremony, everything that comes into what is supposed to be MMA's Super Bowl. And the rest of this

card is Jamal Hill versus Carlos Olberg, Myra Bueno Silva versus Macy Chezon, and Ian Gary versus Michael Page and Joe Pfeiffer versus Mark Andre Burial. And like that's your main card essentially right now. Holy shit.

That is not what you want. That is not good. That is not good in any sense of the word good. Jed, what the, like, your very creative person. What is a backup plan here? Because I'll tell you what, Max Holloway is going to fight Elliot Tuporia.

If they call Max Holloway and say, hey, fight Michael Chandler for the BMF belt, Max Hellowey's going to tell him no because he finally got the thing that he actually wants. And it's a bigger fight, frankly. what is an actual reasonable backup plan? Because to me, maybe you can rush Alex Pereira back and the man can save the day once again,

just like he did a couple months ago at UFC 300. But outside of that, I have no actual idea. So I love that these questions happened because when we knew the topics coming in, and this was the one I spent the most time trying to figure out. I ultimately don't think it will matter. I actually do think the fight will still go forward, assuming the more nefarious things aren't true and that this can go forward.

Connor has never not shown up to a fight functionally, and so I think that he'll just want to keep that going. But if I'm lucky and it doesn't, and I get to be joyous and happy about that, I've created a list of options. And I know that the option that's kind of actually rumored out there is the Max Holloway, Michael Chandler, and it appears that Max is turning that down. there is a price that will get Max to take that. Everyone has a number.

There is a dollar figure that can be thrown at him to take it. And if I were betting, then I would say that, well, that's what would be the backup. Because boys, I don't know if you guys spend a lot of time doing this, not a whole ton of other options out there. Like, I came up with three outside of Max Holloway. The first one is probably the one I would consider the most likely other than the Holloway one. And that's, they call up Tom Aspinall and Curtis Blades and like, hey, I know next month you're supposed to go. We need you three weeks earlier. Tom, I know you want to fight Manchester.

You get to headline this card. Your heavy weights, it's not like you're cutting. Can you do it? And both men probably get a little extra kick in their pot and say, okay. I think that that is not a great answer, but that feels. feels like a realistic, viable one. The other one I had. And this one, oh, I'm not a lot of you, boys.

This got me a little tingly. I got a little excited because when I was going through this, like, you've, because it's International Fight Week. That's the thing. This is not random UFC 303. International Fight Week is supposed to be a staple card of the year. It is to cap off this, the biggest week of the year for them. That's why Connor was on it.

The biggest stars in the promotion are what you want here. And so, well, I mean, you could do it. It'd be a bit ridiculous, but both men have a history of wanting to do such a thing. So Alex Pereira, yes, jumping in and saving the day and doing so against former opponent, Sean Strickland for the light heavyweight title. Oh. Strickland coming off win, not a great win, but people love Strickland super over. And you got to find people who are popular and will fight on three weeks notice. Like, that is a very narrow window to hit in this.

It's UFC. There's that. And then the third one. I mean, Mike, let's just go to Mike before I, the, the Cudicroxia. It's the most insane one.

But Mike was shaking his head at me as if I'm a peasant and I need to know why. No. Just no to all of those things. It's just, it's, no. Sean's straight. Like,

do you think, do you think, no. I don't even know if Sean is a gamer. And if they asked Sean, Sean would say yes. I think Sean would definitely say yes. Sean,

Sean also Sean just went through a five-round fight too and Strickland he fought the after we said he was going to never fight for the belt he fought three weeks later and then suddenly kicked off the year of being a thing his team would be like hell yeah

you can just try and win the light heavyweight belt sure yeah no they're certainly not going to do Tom Asmanall versus Curtis Blades in the main event of international football well tell me what they got because there are not a lot of choices

I'm telling you right now, they're in the warm right now. I'll be like, look, it worked the first time, right? And it came really quickly. So maybe we'll just do Alex Pereira versus Jamal Hill too. And we'll just have Pereira Boopin again to close out the show. I'm kind of joking about that. I wrote this one down because it's, it made me cry with how funny, but still like, heartbreaking it would be. The UFC calls Leon Edwards and says, hey, why don't you defend the Welterweight title against Michael

Chandler instead of Bilal Muhammad. Oh my God. Still doesn't get a title fight. I don't even, I don't even know that he gets a headline international fight week against Michael Chandler. I don't even know that he would, wouldn't he rather fight Balal at home? I'm not sure. He's got to make a lot.

It's a $20 million game. Anything in this situation, you're getting a pay bump from the UFC and like they're making it worth your while. 100%. This sort of thing. That is the ultimate nightmare world. And he gets to fight at a normal. time he gets to fight it a normal time you're telling me tom aspinall's not good enough to headline

an actual fight week but leon edwards is if that happens this is the worst time against michael chaylor oh my god that would be so miserable tom aspinall could headline manchester and people would be fine with that somewhere out there in the midwest below mohammed just woke up in a cold sweat aware that there was a disturbance in the force from what you just put into the world it would be objectively funny it would be objectively funny but i don't think either of those things happen but Now you got me real curious, Jed. If those two you fought so passionately for, what's the coup de grace? What's the whipped cream on top of the Sunday?

I got to hear that. This is the insane one, right? I was digging deep and I went, it's so crazy it might work. You know, it's just so crazy. It might be the only sane one in the room. You give the people what some of them have been asking for for a decade. And you do Michael Chandler, but you can. can't Michael Chandler can't headline a random

ass card. He's got to be fighting for a belt, but the BMF belt is occupied. You create the 165 pound UFC title finally. And you do it with Michael Chandler versus Dustin Poier. One more chance of gold, boys.

Let's go! You guys aren't nearly as excited about the chance of sneaking Dustin in. AK looks like furious. I just I didn't know where you're going with it. Come on. Like,

let's get it more, like, it is a transparent. We are just trying to get this man a title. And no one would be upset about it. No one would be mad. Well, I would say that the person who would probably be upset

would be probably Leon Edwards and Bolah, Muhammad, because I think in that world, they're suddenly fighting for the 175 pound title. They don't have to cut as much weight. What a win for them. I'm here for it. They get to enjoy a big steak dinner that night, be like,

oh, I don't have to cut five fewer pounds. Lovely. Are we still talking about June 29? So Dustin's got to turn around from that brutal. Yeah, but it's 165. So it's an easy weight cut for him to make. You know, it's not the weight cut I'm worried about it. It's the,

he has a torn ACL and broken ribs. Yeah, but Michael Chandler sucks, so he'll still beat him and get to be a champion. Actually, you know what? I think I'm out. I teed that up for you. That's just, I think I'm out.

Look, again, I'm not saying this is ideal. I truly that I could not come up outside of, again, the answer I think is the most likely. I know Max is saying no, find the price that Max says yes at. I don't know what else you can do. This is cataclysmically bad planning from the UFC. There is really almost no viable backup plan that I can see. Yeah, I'm out. I'm out.

I think I'm out. I was so with you on the Porier thing, You need a second there. Dude has a tornadoes. There's no way he'd be able to make that turnaround. The thinking is in the right place. It was a good idea. Yeah, the thinking is in the right place.

The timing is in the right place. The timing is bad for all. Okay, what do you have? Who has any out there? There's nobody available. There's nobody available. Alexander Volcanowski? I got nothing. Are you going to do?

I got, I don't think Alex and Yeri can probably, probably can't even make the wait in three weeks. And so, like, that would maybe be your best outcome. I think there's a price where they could make the weight in three weeks. And that would essentially, that would definitely, certainly, like, of the options available, will be the best outcome. It's tough, though.

I think the entire point of this exercise proves exactly what we're saying, though, that this is just such a unenviable situation right now that they are in. And that is why ultimately I think this is going to just happen. I think they're that we will just figure out a way and poor enough money into this to figure out a way to keep this fight together. other. Ultimately, and I want to move on, Phil's because I feel like we could talk about this for an hour, even if this fight does happen for our own purposes, for the rankings, there's probably,

is there a world where Michael Chandler stays unranked regardless, even if, like, if he loses this fight, is he still not, he's not getting back in the rank, it's probably right? Let me, let me lead just because. So here's part of why I was cackling when this happened, because even though, you know, like I think that this fight is going to happen. Regardless, once he's out, he's gone. I don't care. Like, if this fight goes through, it doesn't matter.

He's fighting Connor McGregor, who hasn't won in infinity of time at welterweight. Why does that rank him anywhere? Whoever wins this fight will not be ranked for me because they won't deserve to be ranked. They are not actively competing in one of the weight classes and getting wins that are significant and meaningful. And so that's fine. And to your point, Shaheen, actually, again, I don't think this was a miscalculation on Chandler's part. I understand why he did it, and I don't even think it's wrong.

I think it's deeply funny. And it is, if you are him, unfortunate that it has played out this way. But if you are not him and someone who doesn't particularly care for him, it is deeply funny. Because he did make, I would say, objectively correct decisions here. And the die has broken very poorly for him thus far. and maybe he's broken really, really bad for him. But regardless of whether this fight goes on, whatever the outcome is, I ain't ranking either of them afterwards.

Damn, neither. You guys are the same boat? You know, reminding me that it's a welterweight out, definitely didn't help things for Chandler's case. I was already leaning. I'm already very much leaning towards he probably doesn't make it back, especially with a loss. Even with a win, I'm not sure. With a loss, I think it's just no way.

I mean, if he loses to McGregor, I'm looking at my own rankings. I've got, I mean, it's not inconceivable. So my fifth, my bottom three spots in my top 15 are Jude Dober, A.J. McKee and Matt Frivolta. And yeah, I guess just like it feels right putting Chandler but one of those guys, but not really. For context. Chandler does have a win over Dan Hooker, right? And Dan Hooker's our number 12 guy right now, lightweight. That was three, that was over three years ago.

It's a good win. It's a great win. There's no doubt. That's over three years ago. And then since then Tony Ferguson. And I know he's only. that's his only relevant win is like and it's a good win i'm not here say that's not dan hooker dan hooker is his only relevant win yeah that's that's not enough for me yeah and i know i'm i'm someone who always says oh well

when someone loses to top competition like i shouldn't penalize them because i mean lost to poria g charlie lavera nothing nothing to be ashamed of i mean i kept tony ferguson in the top of dean forever because he didn't lose to anyone ranked below him so theoretically i should do the same with chanler but combined with the inactivity and just like him not being there you have have to do something I feel like to get back in. We'll see how the performances. I could certainly change my mind, but right now if he loses, and I'm kind of with Jed, like, I don't think either guy gets back into the into 125.

It's like the best division in the sport. You really actually have to get wins in the division to be ranked. It doesn't seem unfair to say that. I don't know. I mean, especially unlike global rankings, right? Like this is not just UFC-centric. You also include everywhere else in the world. It's fair.

This fight was it light. And he won, I would put him back. I got probably. And I don't think that Connor is a significant win, but that is at least continuing to compete in the weight class where you do have a win over a top 12 guy. Since this is at welterweight, and I do not consider Connor McGregor a significant win ranking meritocracy-wise.

Like, it's just not enough. Like, you got to do some, unless he really impresses, like it just does the coolest shit I've ever seen. But that seems unlikely. I think I would probably put him back win or loss, but I don't think it would be very high. I think that's ultimately where I'm at. If he loses, you'll put him back.

He'd be like 10 or 11 for me. Yeah, I would have to put him above Hooker. It'd have to put him about Dan Hooker. And so then Conner's also getting back in, assuming Connor beats him. That's a tougher conversation. By MMA math. Because like, it's not a lightweight.

Conner's not a lightweight in forever. So for me, that's a much tougher conversation. I don't ultimately think I would because also Connor's not here for the long haul. Connor's not doing a push to move up the rankings. Like he's a one-off fun fight fighter. I just don't, I don't know. I wouldn't be able to throw Connor in at lightweight

when that's like his first lightweight win in since 205, really, right? Since Eddie? That wouldn't even be a lightweight with. Cowboy at Welter. Yeah. So it's the same as him beating cowboy at Welter. Yeah.

He wouldn't. I just want to say for hooker. I would probably, I would probably rank Chandler because, as Jed has said many, many times, and it's true, Chandler has no say in where this fight takes place. It could have been a middleweight, could have been a light heavyweight. Whatever Connor wants to fight, Chandler had no choice. He couldn't fight and be like, nah, I want him to cut to 55.

He gets zero choice in the matter. So I don't typically don't, I don't penalize him for that. And the Connor ranking discussion is actually more interesting because if he goes out and fights Michael Chandler wins, he's probably. fighting for a belt next, either at lightweight or at welterweight, which is insane. So that's going to be an interesting, more interesting ranking show on July 2nd or whatever. The, uh, the, I really need this fight to not happen. The case I'll make, by the way, for ranking hooker above Chandler, no matter what happens

on June 29th, if it does happen, is that hooker has good wins since that lost Chandler. Nazred Hackford. To me, that is the case. Miles of me very Jalen Turner. And that was a really great fight with Jailen Turner. So I think you, I would be very, I also don't have Dan Hooker in my top 15 right now, so makes it even easier. But yeah, I'd be very comfortable ranking Dan Hooker over Chandler at this point, just

given how much time is past. I'd say either way, though, this is an in enviable situation, obviously, for all parties. So I don't know how this is going to work out. I think it's not for all parties. Well, this fight doesn't happen. One guy. But she was aside. Everyone else is sort of dangling in the balance here.

these next few days, weeks, however long this takes, we have a timeline here. It's going to be fascinating to watch, and I think this is going to be something that we're going to talk about every day until we get an answer. But in the meantime, let's take a break, and then we're going to talk some 302 on the other side. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. What? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements.

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but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. All right, y'all, we are back. Moving on. Let's go backwards a bit. Talk about some last dangling threads from UFC 302. It wasn't the deepest pay-per-view, fellow. So really, like, for our purposes here, ranking-wise,

not a lot of movement among our ranks because of the results. Palo Costa drops one spot at middleweight to number nine. That's about it. Sean Strickland, Dustin Porier, is Lamachachev. They all hold firm in their respective divisions. Strickland jumps a few spots on the pound for pallet list of to another 13, but really, again, not a lot. It wasn't like a very deep card.

But now that we have some distance from it, one thing that I wanted to throw out quick, and I didn't even prep you guys on this, but it was something I was thinking about. Saturday's main event. It was thrilling, thrilling stuff. And it did not occur to me at the time that this would be a conversation point,

but it has since somewhat become one, and I think it's a fair conversation point. I just wondered real quick. We didn't even need to spend a lot of time on us, but where does that main event? Islam versus Dustin, where does that rank on the fight of the year shortlist for you as we sort of hit this halfway point at 2024? I've heard a few people call it the number one and I don't know if I agree or disagree with it because it has been a very weird year for fights of the year. There's not some like clear standout.

It's my number one fight of the year. I thought I said, oh, you weren't on the post show. I said that on the post show. I think and you know, I didn't want to be like reactionary because I couldn't remember if I was forgetting something. something. And then I went back and looked because I actually know this been a very light year for it. And I don't think it will end up being fight of the year. Like it is a very good fight, right? It is a very enjoyable, very good fight. It has been a deeply rewatchable fight for me. There's a lot of depth going on there that other good fights don't have. Like, for instance,

I think Glover-Teshire, Yeh Pajca is quite possibly the best fight of all time. It's like top three. But that fight as you rewatch it, still bangs. But there's not, like, oh, look at this tricky thing that's going on here. It's just like, these two dudes sure are going hammering tongs, baby. I think that this fight is very good. It's my fight of the year right now. If it ended up being the fight of the year, that would speak more to what happened this year in the sport.

It wouldn't be like the worst fight of the year of all time, but it certainly doesn't have a lot of the hallmarks we usually get. But I still think it was a very, very good fight and it's my number one so far. Yeah, it's got to be the frontrunner. And I don't have the same confidence in it as I did with when we had Islam, Volkanowski won because I was in like January or January or February of last year. That was, yeah, very beginning of the year. February.

And even then, but we were like, wow, like we were like, if any fight beats this, it's going to be a hell of a frigging year for the UFC. So I don't have the same confidence in this fight, though I did love the Islam Porre fight. And I feel like the narratives coming out of it are similar to. It's like, oh, my gosh, did Islam get like exposed? And then I think when people will rewatch it, they're going to. see as Jed said, he's rewatched already. Like, there's facets of it that people are just going to find fascinating.

And they're also going to realize like, oh, wow, Islam actually did like even better than they thought because I don't know, every time the fights, a fight's on the feet with him. They just think like, oh, he's getting killed on the feet. I'm like, Islam is almost never getting killed on the feet. He's so good in striking. Islam won the most of the striking in that fight. He did. He totally did.

And I knew that watching live. I'm like, what are people not seeing? I guess they just assume. I guess Habib's up from this too. Anytime he wasn't getting a take down. It's just lazy. It's like, oh, he's losing. It's lazy narratives.

It's lazy, not sort of keeping up with the actual real time of what you're watching. Like, oh, Habib was this dominant grappler, and that's essentially all Islam is too, just because they're the same person. Do you remember Habib Al-Aquinta when the entire, he took around, like literally took around off to just box Al? And the entire commentator is like, oh, my God, what's happening? He can't get the takedowns. This could be the end of it. And instead, he was jabbing Al's face off of him. And that wasn't the narrative.

It's the same thing. Like it's like she, it's just, it's baked into the pie. I am surprised. I think I am in the same spot as you fellows. I didn't, like coming down to this event,

I wasn't like, oh, that was clearly the best fight I've seen so far this year, but actually I think that was the best fight I've seen so far this year. And if it does hold, can you imagine a world

where Islam Makachev is a back-to-back winner of fight of the year for the website? Where is sneaky fun as hell. 23-5. Dude, at that poor, He's up and like, we're talking about like Justin Gachie, Robbie Lawler, Islam Makachef, guys who have won multiple years in a row type of thing.

Like that is not how people perceive this. He has two surely, right? Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like that is not how people perceive this man. I, so Mike is shaking his head and I want to ask both you to because this is, if it's not this, what would it be? Because the only other answer I can think of that like feels right is Max Justin and less so, that that's like, and that fight was very fun,

but less so that that's like a fight of the year and more so it was a good fight and it has such a momentous ending that people will kind of conflate the two and give it some juice. So like Mike, when you were shaking your head, is that the fight you're thinking of the year? Where is it?

Three. I have it a three. Because I went back and rewatch it and then I thought about this a lot after the post fight show. If Dustin Porre, if this was Islam versus Armand Sarukian, we're not having this conversation right now. We're just not.

It's the fact that Dustin Porre was in and he was such a big underdog and it was a chance to finish the story. There's an emotional connection that not to have two spots for everybody. So that's why I just can't do it. Sean Strickland Drick's Duplice to me is the best fight of the year so far. It was the most second closest fight I've ever seen outside of Volcanowski Holloway 2. It was fun, which I know after Sean Strickland

fought Paul Costa. A lot of the newer fans don't think Sean Strickland is fun. He was very fun in this fight. This is about as close you can get. Gachey Holloway is my number two. I put Pori-Machachev number three. And number four right now is Brendan Allen versus Chris Curtis too. Yeah.

That makes sense. They just weren't fighting for anything at all, which kind of takes some sizzle off of it. I'll have to go back and watch EDP Strickland again. Yuri versus Rackich was fun as hell. Like that was a super fun fight, but it was just, you're he's the man. It's on 300. You know, even Dustin, Santini was friggin awesome.

Like, that was a great fight too. So, Portie might fight himself in this list twice. So I just can't get there. I understand the emotional connection to Dustin that he performed admirably and did better than most thought he would. And he had moments and we're kind of on the edge of our seats, not because it was this thrilling, you know, Yuri. This was a Yuri versus Glover.

but we were just like, man, he's still in this thing after four rounds. Like, is the Hail Mary there? Will he do the Jedmishu thing? Jump Gilly in round five and win the lightweight title? Sure tried. And then it just didn't happen. He sure did. He sure did not try, but he should have.

But yeah, it's in the mix, but I just, you take Porya out of it. And I don't think this fight's in the top five, honestly. I will also say that this fight gets a bump for me because Islam finishes it in five. When, like, apparently he was up on the scorecards, but then was like, no, he fought with urgency and that always makes fights more exciting when you get a fifth round finish and not just oh he won the fight and it went to the scorecards like that adds a little juice to me and and to add to that that card sucked like it was bad it was one of the worst pay it was worse than it was actually worse than 297 it honestly was worse than 297 as a whole wow you're right aren't you

yeah i am right we're the two of the three best fights of the year were both on the final to awful cards. Do you think that hurts those fights? Like if those cards were exciting and awesome and they were the capper, do you think that that would make those fights really elevate? Or does it...

But the fact that they are surrounded by poop make them stand out as bright-smelling flowers much more. Wow. That's why I had re-watched each fight individual. I got to go re-watched trickling Z and try to take it out of the context of the end of shit. I'll need to go watch.

These were actually good on the tail end of poop, as you like to say. That Strickland, that Strickland DDP fight literally woke people up. Like I was there. I was live. And like the first couple of rounds were like, okay, right, you got to watch. It built. The fight builds really, really nicely. But the crowd, not just because of the slow build of the fight, but because of how the night had gone,

you could say they were just, oh, boy, they were like restless. But once the actions started to go and they really started to get behind, well, something behind Strickland and some of my DDP, that got split really nicely. It was ended by the fifth round was one of the loudest crowds I've ever heard. But yeah, to your point, it is interesting how so much of what happened before affected the dynamic of the main event. I do think, Mike, I think that's fair sort of the calculation you're using with this. And also, I think that grouping of four that you had of those top four, that feels right of like whatever the top four would be in some order. I do maybe have some misgivings with the logic of like, how well, if this was Armand versus Islam, we're looking at it differently.

but like, yeah, of course, but that's also baked into, like, obviously fight of the year is weird, right? It's this nebulous thing. Everyone sort of considers it differently. Like, what are your criteria for this? For me, fight of the year, like, that's baked into it. If I have an emotional connection to this, if I'm feeling certain things during the fight, like the initial viewing experience will always be the most important metric for me rather than going back and rewatching once I already sort of know what's happening. That in the moment on the edge of my seat, oh my God, this is the wildest experience ever type of thing. That to me is like the crowning point that I would use towards scoring fight at the year. But I think everything you're saying makes sense. And I think all

of that is fair. We all have our own sort of definitions for this. It's just, again, it's weird. It's not something that I was considering on Saturday night. But I guess that's, it's certainly in the conversation. Either way, the winner of that fight is Islam Makachab. Islam Makachev, number one lightweight, number one pound for pound fighter. We have reached this. weird place in MMA right now, this weird special place, and we see it's happen ever so often. We're even seeing it right now on the pound for pound article that we've released on MMA fighting this week, the one I think ESPN released similar, the ringer, all of us, anyone who does this in the space, junkie, whoever you want to call it. We all do these same things, and everyone,

Islam is at the top of all of our lists, and you look at the comments under any of those posts, this very specific thing being said in these comments. This was a fight marketed as deep versus the number one guy. Islam has extensively been marketed as the number one guy since he had Kickbolt. Everything about this fight was billed as the number one guy, even in the UFC's own rankings. He is the number one guy. And yet now, because a certain section of the fan base follows Dana White's word as law, there is an Islam versus Jones debate raging across this community after 302.

It is in my mentions. I'm sure it's in y'all's mentions. It's certainly in the website's comment. and mentions. And here is my thing. And here's maybe my one thing about this whole conversation that I just do not understand. Why? Why is this the moment that you choose to do this Dana White? Do you know the question that was asked to him when he launched into this John Jones thing? The question that was asked, Dave- super innocuous.

Dude, the question that Dana got to start this whole like not controversy, but conversation was Jose, our pal, Jose Youngs, asked him, where do you rank Islam in the pantheon of lightweights after this incredible fight that he just put on for you? And somehow, some way, that is the thread in which Dana White decided, nah, man, it is time to actively demote this man

who just basically saved this terrible card and put on the fight of the year. This is baffling to me. Like, someone helped me out here of how this is like the opportunity to launch into a 10-minute glazing of John Jones. I don't get it. I really don't. I almost feel like he is so inclined to disagree with the media that he just immediately jumped into fighting the media mode with that thing. Because, you know, doesn't, Trump was in the building, too.

So, you know, Dana's blood was up. I don't know if there was someone asked about Trump. I don't remember if it was before or after that question. I think it was before. I think he was already in, you know, Republican fighting mode. He went as far as to say, if you have Islam number, rank number one pound for pound, you should not be doing the rankings. Like you should be out.

So again, that's, so that includes us, like you said, all the other outlets, the UFC itself, whoever. You have the entire marketing team. Every piece of marketing material for 302. Get out. What are you talking about? How can you have Islam number one? And it's so weird because we don't, we don't even have John Jones, like the fight officially booked the steep fight. Like we know we know with November Massacre Garden, obviously it's it's it's

just something they're not going to start promoting until the time is right. They don't they don't do that anymore. They don't like promoting fights more than three months ahead of time-ish. So there's not going to do that. But I think it just comes down to his his conflict with us with us with the media. He just cannot let us have that. He can't let us be the ones that decide any narrative involved with the UFC, any narrative involving their top fighters. It's weird because I guess maybe because the promotion for 302, you know, 302 is passed. I'm done promoting 302. I don't need to promote what just happened.

Maybe he was sour, but the rest of the car, maybe he was just in a bad mood. It was very weird. I would also make the case that I think most of us agree he's conflating greatest of all time with current pound for pound. And again, just felt like going on a tirade for that reason. But overall, just a very bizarre moment of not really promotion, not really. Help me. I don't.

I'm just as confused as you are. Here's the thing. Because I've heard people say, like, well, he just shifted into promoter mode for the next thing and the next thing's going to be John Jones. But that's not even true. Like, there's a real good chance that Islam fights again before we see John Jones in November. Islam's going to probably headline the Obama thing in October. It's not even a real good chance.

It's overwhelmingly likely that he fights again before we see John Jones again. make it make sense to me someone so this is this is stubborn dana white this is this is stubborn dana white dana white is one of three people on planet earth who still wants to see john jones versus stepe he's one of three people the other two are john jones and stepe literally no other human being on planet earth wants to see this fight. This is Dana White's way of getting people to care about John Jones and putting him over when he see Dana. Dana pays attention to everything. So this is his way. The timing of it is fucking stupid. And Dana is just that guy and he just doesn't care. Dana wants to be the guy who gets, we want to clip up. I want to say some that people

will clip off like some Republican dude with two million followers. You can be a look. Look at my man, Dana, just not going to the present. He's going to the past. He's going to the future. He's John Jones. He stands by his man. He's a loyal promoter. That's what this guy is.

But this is him trying to plant seeds that John is going to fight Steepa and that people actually care. The problem is nobody does. And Dana knows nobody does. And he knows that nobody wants to see the fight except for him, John and Steepa. And when Dana gets into that mode, he will do whatever it takes at any point in time, whether it demerits the guy who just won a thing. thrilling fight. Three of four of you say it's the fight of the year, which if you three are saying

that means a lot of other people are saying it. This is his way to be like, I'm right, you guys are wrong. This is me telling you that you should do this. And guess what? The Dana White minions are all over the comments section. Be like, well, the president, CEO of the company says that John Jones is the best. So he must be the best. You guys are morons. You are idiots if you listen to this man. You clearly have only been watching the sport for three months. You watched right before UFC 300 because a friend of a friend of a cousin told you, hey, this is the 300th UFC pay-per-view. And it's going to be really, really cool.

And there's all these cool fights. And Dana White says it's cool, even though the woke media says it sucks. You guys have fallen into the trap. And I'm telling you right now, do yourselves a favor. Get out. Get out. Find a ladder. Call your friend to,

put that ladder down so you can climb out of that fucking hole. Because the longer you stay down there, the worse it is going to be for you. So I'm telling you, get out of the hole, snap back into reality, and pay attention to what is going on in front of you. That is what I have to say about it. Islam Makachep is the best pound for pound fighter on the planet right now. There is no if, sans butts or debate about it. Now, Dana's, if the reason Dana wants to say is, well, if you look, John Jones in a room with anybody else,

John's coming out. Yeah, no shit, he's 285 pounds. Of course he's going to walk out of that room. But that is not what we're talking about here. We're talking about Islam Makachev. We're talking about a guy who's in the best division in the sport and one of the toughest divisions in all of sports, the lightweight division in the UFC,

and the dude is rattling off win after win after win after win, and he's doing it exciting, he's finishing everybody. He's won 13 in a row. And this is the time you say, if anybody ranks as a Makachef, number one, we shouldn't be doing rankings? Guess what? Then maybe I shouldn't be doing rankings, but I'm still going to do them whether you like it or not. Stop with this narrative.

Stop falling for it. Get out of the hole. Get out as fast as you can because it's ridiculous. My best friend, please. I don't know. Yeah. I love to see you get this fired up. He's so stupid, dude.

Like, it's so dumb. like Dana White and David Terrelli are probably at Starbucks drinking coffee right now. The two, it's just too off to horse people on Saturday. Oh, they're those two individuals. Catching a stray. I saw two things about the, I loved the John Jones. If you lock a minute room,

he's the only one coming out of a room thing because like, how not relevant is that to this actual conversation? Yes, you're the heavyweight champion of the world will probably emerge from the room in like all situations throughout history of combat sports. Like that's not at all. what pound for pounding remotely means, but also like, you know,

if there was a John Jones-sized Islam Makachef, is John Jones walking out of that room? I'm not entirely sure that it is. But also, how about you lock John Jones in the room? How about you walk John Jones in the room with Tom Espinal? I would love to see you walked out of that room. More importantly is that, Sheen, everyone that's not the three people the Mike mentioned,

want you to lock him into a room with Tom and see what happens. So many headphones are being destroyed right now by this episode. I just went away in here and say that I think that there are two explanations for you, Sheen. And I'm not saying that anything what Mike said is wrong. I think a lot of this dovetails. I'll say one, it's my fault. He is Dana White, like Mike said, sees everything. And he understands that the Gaslight John Jones movement has really, really taken over the internet streets.

and that most people are pretty active against John versus Tom, or not Tom, John versus Stipe. And so like Mike said, he's, he is pushing back against that. And I also actually, whether this is conscious or subconscious, I think there is probably some merit to the idea that the UFC is not in the star making business. They are in the promoting their brand and their brand is Dana White business. And so getting Islamakachev over is actually. runs counter to their larger plans as a corporate entity. And so,

ah, here's a way we can just take some shine off this dude in what should be a grand moment for him. So not great, Bob, but that's the best answer I got for you. I will say one unintended consequence of this whole situation, and I was talking about 2A.K. about this over the weekend. This whole conversation for however ridiculous and dumb it is,

is starting to make. me reassess my own pound for pound list. And I think I am now joining you, Jedmishu, in this slow precipitous drop of John Jones down this list because at a certain point, what is pound for pound mean? It means who's the best in the world right now, who's doing the best stuff right now in a certain point.

If you are not doing stuff, and especially not stuff that is relevant to the conversation, I'm not going to just give you credit for beating Leotumachita 10 years ago. You know, like at a certain point, like where's the tipping point? Because this feels like we're starting to get to the tipping point. And I have John now.

I don't know where he is. I'm at like five, six now. And I don't feel bad about it. You got me at four, Shane. I'm the Michael Burry. That's about to get lower. I might be early, but I'm never wrong. You're not wrong.

Just maybe a little early. I don't have John ranked pound for pound. And buddy, I've got to tell you, haven't lost a wink of sleep on that one. New York, Rick, when he's just like talking about ranks, he does always say like, well, what's the cutoff? like what is the year, how far it go? And I'm like, I think we can make, and my counter to that is I think with certain fighters,

you can make a pretty clear cutoff of like three or four years. Like I don't know why we need to say like, oh, well, you can't cut it off for three or four years. You have to look back at the Tiago Santos, right? The Aces-Smiths-Fipe at the second goose up. Like, no, you don't have to. You don't have to. We are, we can, you know, we can make pretty solid gauges of how time passes now in the UFC, considering how fast it moves.

So maybe there was a time when they didn't do 45. 46 events a year and you could say like well they only you know they only get the chance to fight once whatever there's only so many cards now we know we're like actually there's like a lot of opportunities to fight every year so unfortunately yes a win from four or five years ago doesn't hold as much weight anymore it just doesn't um barring certain circumstances and uh john jones in this case i think is not protected by any circumstances he's been out for injury he's been out for outside of the cage misbehavior he's been out for supposedly i'm taking forever to park properly put on weight.

He's just, we just can't protect guys at this anymore. And the second thing I want to mention quick, Shaheen is you mentioned your panel panelist is starting to look like Jeds. I'll go to feel some inside baseball here. A few of your list is starting to look like Jeds, and I'm getting concerned.

I am getting concerned. So coming around. This is an intervention? What is this? He sees the wisdom of the big short. Just mentioning it. This is a great day for me, guys. And I,

I don't want to, like, this is honestly not a shit on John Jones thing for me. Because I, something crystallized for me this weekend. I do want to give John Jones credit for one thing. It's the only time you'll ever hear me give John Jones credit because he's coward and

refused to fight Tom Aspinall. John did one really good thing. He bailed. He just gave up his belt, his light heavyweight belt. He didn't sit around and hold it and say, I want to go get the heavyweight belt, but I'm going to wait.

Now he's doing that with the heavyweight belt and that sucks, but whatever. But I give him a lot of credit. it for just being like, hey, I'm not into this fighting for the title of my own weight class anymore. At some point in the future, I may go up. Here, you guys have it. And I thought of that this weekend with Islam coming out and saying, like I've said a million times, man, it's just hard to defend my lightweight belt.

It's not as fun. I'd like to go pursue the welterweight belt. But at no point that he mentioned leaving the lightweight title, he wants to have his cake and eat it too. And so credit to John for not doing that. other than the part where now he is kind of just holding on to that Belcher, you can fight Steepa, or whatever. But yeah, the tipping point is past, Shaheen.

Like, Cyril Gone is a good quality win. I'm not here to take that win away. That win is the number one heavyweight in the world. He's the number one heavyweight in the world. I also think that kind of, you know, lets you know what Dana was about doing there, being really, really driving home those comments. That win was 15 months ago.

I just did the math. I'm very excited. You guys are giving me a wonderful birthday gift this year when I get to remove John Jones from the heavyweight rankings as well. I assume we will do a rankings update after the August 3rd card in Saudi. My birthday will be that week.

And August 4th, John officially exits the ranking. So, buddy, August 4th, that's Sunday when we're doing our post-fight rankings updates, I will be sure to message each next. every one of you about who gets dropped. And happy birthday to me. Because a win, one good win 15 months ago is not pound for pound anything. He should not be in anyone's pound for pound rankings.

I will die on that hill because he has one win this decade, this, like since 2020, two, I guess, if you're counting Dominic Reyes, who has lost five in a row or whatever. and also beat him. So, like, John's last good win, like actual good win, I guess is Anthony Smith, though I still don't rate that that highly. And really his last good win is Daniel Cormey, which was a no contest. So, like, no, what he has accomplished all time, like, you can't run that down. He's the goat, probably.

Nothing. No, he's not for me. But if you want to believe that, he's one or two. He's number one or two. I don't have him in that, but that's fine. Like, I don't, I do not think anyone is incorrect. A whole other podcast. If you have him number one or two, I don't think you are wrong.

I just don't agree. But like he is in that rarefied air. Not what this conversation is. John belongs absolutely nowhere near the pound for pound list. Not anywhere close to it. Right now. Yeah, right now. What a weird world we live in right now.

MMA is so strange. And is Lamakchev. I'm pretty sure objectively is the outside of everyone agreeing almost unilaterally that he is, I actually think just like by almost any standard metric. he would be the number one pound-for-pound fighter. Like, universally accepted for a reason. Jed, I want to pick up on one of the things you said there. You mentioned John Jones does not belong on any pound-for-pound list.

I would contest that. I would make an argument that maybe he belongs right now on the list of the pound-for-pound most annoying fighters in M.M.A. And I know we've spoken a lot about John already. We've spoken a lot about Michael Chandler, So we don't need to break down. And when people are, I feel like, what do you mean? I'm annoying.

If you follow any of these guys' social medias or some of the interviews they do, I guess in the challenge's case on the interviews he does. I'm just saying these guys content to get on people. Dana's been around since UFC 1, AK. He knows. Oh, man. The tweeting is rough. The man got community noted.

The man got community does that one. I love it. Community noted. And justifiably so. I am barring Dylan Danis from this discussion. I feel like he's not a fighter. He's not a fighter. He's not a fighter.

He's not a fighter. He's an annoying man, certainly, an annoying human being. Combat sports adjacent, but let's leave him out. So I'll throw these names out there. Oh, you've done work on this. Each one I thought, I know is. Okay. I had to.

Just so we could springboard or something. So obviously, John Jones, Michael Chandler, people, and please guys, save your comments until I finish reading the list. Is this an order? Coming on strong. Are you going top to bottom? It's not an order. I want you guys to give me someone, no, this is just give me someone of an order after.

John Jones, Michael Chandler, Joaquin Buckley, coming on strong in 2024, Julianna Pena, of course, a classic. Jamal Hill, who just hates so many people, has such an antagonistic... It's a tight race. It's a tight race.

And, of course, one of my personal favorites or not anti-favorites, one Mr. Henry Sehudo. So I'm sure I've forgotten... I'm sure I've forgotten people. Mike, who right now? Right now, again, not all time. I don't want to get, you know,

gets mixed up like Dana White did. Who's number one pound for pound? Oh, I know most are knowing right now. I know Mike's answer. I think I know what's answer too. Everyone listening to this knows Mike's answer. It's, it's, Joachian Buckley's one through nine.

And everybody else is tied for 10. That's, that's it. Rant over. I mean, I will, I'm not sure I agree with Mike, but I will say, Joaquin Buckley is having a Shogun 2005 era, like run right now in this category.

Like he is just putting up some, some impressive numbers in a very short span of time. Yeah, he's the, he's the Patrick Mahomes of annoying, just coming in and just putting up a MC championship game every year. Just calling it, listen, every month, bam, bam, bam, bam.

Calling out Connor Gregor was horrible, but you can understand like, oh, he just thinks it's the cool thing. He just thinks it's the cool thing to do. Everyone does it, so he did it. Getting into a weird feud with Cubbs Swanson. That was the kicker. That was the kicker.

Inexcusable. Opsetting. Of all people, like such a respected figure. And not even... It was honestly hilarious. Not someone you'd go after for like mainstream clout because like we love Cub, but it's not like... He's a hardcore.

He's a hardcore fans. He's a hardcore guy. You're not going to get anyone on your side going after him. You're not gaining anything. I'm sorry to cut you on making, but also like... The way in which it played out of, you've never even been in the rankings type of thing of just like, dude,

this guy was like a top five contender first. Number two. This guy was a top five contender for like a decade. What are we talking about? He's actually in the Hall of Fame. What have you done? Like no bullshit. Writing that story was one of the highlights of this like last month for me.

When I got to do that and then I just got to be like, here's the quote. I'm like, actually, Cubs Swanson is UFC Hall. famer who peaked at number two in the featherway, right? It was the best. I had so much fun. Jed, would he be your choice to?

Would it be John Jones? I feel like John Jones doesn't annoy you, is it? But I feel like you've dominated him so thoroughly in this conversation. Is he even annoying to you at this point? I mean, it's one of those things where it's like an annoying mole that you wish were gone, but you get it lanced off and then you'd miss it. Like, we have a co-dependent relationship. It's wrapped up in this.

Yeah. Because like, honestly, Sheen, you said something earlier, like way back in the show, like, sure all of your mentions have been about this. Actually,

none of my mentions had been like, hey, did you see what Dana said? Because everyone in my mentions knows where I stand. So they're not like trying to get at me. They're all like, yeah, we're team Jed here.

It's John because he is holding up a division while also tweeting up a storm. Joaquin Buckley has had, I mean, he's number two and he's making a run for it. Give him another month at this pace for sure. Like he's doing it. But John is just consistently putting in that work out there. Like even the tweet, the tweet on the week.

You know, Dana White's been here since UFC one. Factually accurate. He says, you know, it's true. Like just the most ridiculous stuff. So he gets it. But good on you, new Monsa. You're trying. Wow.

I will speak for Damon Martin right now. If you were here, he would say Juliana Pena with in a heartbeat. She hasn't been doing anything, though. She's fine. That's the thing. He, I know. I enjoy Julia. Historically.

When she is cooking, when she is cooking, Damon, I tell you, Damon is pretty justified. She makes a terrible division worthwhile. This is why I enjoy her. Yeah. And I'll quickly say, uh, Suhudo for me all the way. It never starts. His podcast with Usman, surprisingly not.

He's bad in it, though. In spite of, yes, in spite of him, in spite of him, surprisingly not terrible. They get good guess, but he is bad. If people want to hear more of my thoughts on Sunito, just go back and listen to the post-Aljermain Sterling fight ranking show we did. I cannot, I didn't rank him. I argued why I didn't rank him. And I'll admit, yes, someone has to do with me just being annoyed by him.

But I'm not a fan of his public persona, his social media persona. still a very good fighter, but that's about where it ends with me. So I got a shout out. Shout out to Sehudo, number one pound for pound on that list, at least. Well, thank you for taking us down that journey, AK.

One last thing here, before we get out of here, we'll pour one out and get out of here. Just a very quick question. It's something that I've been thinking about when I was putting together the pound for pound post for this past week. It's a question that I actually don't know

that I have a good answer for, but I don't know. It's leaving me curious for what your guys are going to, when you guys automatic knee-jerk responses is to something like this. We have a lot of fresh blood coming into the rankings. Pretty much every month. This month was very similar. We had a lot of like Carlos Olbergs and people like that entering the rankings for the first time.

I wonder, because this only lasts so long, right? We have eras. We had the John Jones era at number one. We had the Habibn-Nam-Mir-Mah-Mad-off era at number one. We had the Alexander Volkanovsky. On and on and on. Kamar Usman had a really long one. Right now, it's the last.

Lamakachev era at number one pound for pound. If I, if you guys just need jerk answers, just very quickly, who, who is the first or second name that pops into your head? Who is the next fighter to claim this spot who hasn't already been in this spot before, meaning a Usmane Jones, somebody like that? Who is the next fresh blood name that you think will be that guy? I mean, chalk is Pereira, but you know, where I'm going. Just like the Joaquin Buckley answer, I think everybody knows where I'm going. Because for Islam Makachchev to lose

the number one spot, someone's going to have to beat him. And just so happens, Arm and Sarukian's going to go ahead and beat him in October and become the lightweight champion. So, I'm going to go with Armand Sarukia. Do you think I'm going to go out? If he needs him, do you think he'll move to number one? Yeah, I don't feel like he would.

Or would you drop Islam and move like Pereira or Leon up. Yeah, that tends to be how it goes. I mean, if he goes up and dusts up, the number one dude. Yeah. I mean, it's close. Beating Olivera and is on back to back. Darius Olivera is on back to back and then winning the belt in the toughest division in the sport.

Be a good run. He'll be my number one. I'll tell you that right now. You can call it bias. You can call it whatever you want. But if he goes out there and makes that run of knocking out Benny D in short order, then beating Charles Olivera, who is. one of the five best lightweights of all time.

I scored that fight for all there. And then beating is Lamachev, who's one of the five best lightweights of all time and becoming the lightweight champion. Yeah, I'll put it. He'll be my number one. I'll tell you that right now. I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to have it number one.

I, though, I think that if that happens, I agree that obviously Markachev has to lose to kind of get bumped down. If that happens, I don't think, uh, surrogene will just pop up there.

I think he'll jump into top fiveish or whatever. but he does have a couple of close losses hanging relatively recently that'll probably just keep him behind unless he continues to rack up wins. So based on that logic, this was very easy for my one, which was the number two pound for pound fighter in the world on my rankings, which is Ilya Tupuria, because I think Ilya is very likely to retain the featherweight title for some time. And he is very young. And so, like, the really the key here is just going to be, you got outlast Islam and, you know, John and some list, though people are coming around.

Leon and Pereira. And so it's like, yeah, I think he can probably do that. And I also have a dark shot, like a dark horse, Tom Aspinall. Because, like, he's going to be the heavyweight champ for a while. And he's just going to keep beating a lot of terrible fighters. and so kind of will slot into that number one spot at some point, I think. If he ever gets the John Jones fight, and let's say he beats John Jones, not an easy task, and let's say that he fights Alex Padera down the road.

I know people will say, oh, it's Alex coming up. It shouldn't matter as much. It'll matter. It's fighting another pound for pound guy. If he gets those two wins in the next two years somehow, somehow, and then, like we said, Makachev maybe just, you know, again, a change's weight classes or suffers a loss in there somewhere or retires, it really is kind of Tommy. Even if he doesn't, though, get those fights, okay, even if he just goes and beats Curtis

Blades and avenges his one UFC lost by injury and Islam loses and Leon loses and John retires, like he beats Curtis Blades and then beats Jailton Almeida and he has wins over literally like one through seven of the UFC heavyweight rankings. Like he has clearly has more wins over top 10 fighters in his division than any other fighter. like that's just going to start adding up to get in places. It's hard to do as a heavyweight though. I don't think Francis did. I don't think we ever ranked Francis number one, right?

It's hard to do as a heavy weight. Francis never got there. And I think that's the thing that ultimately would hold a lot of people back is just the heavyweight. Like it took a lot for Usik to get there on the boxing side, right? Because it's just inherently difficult for people for heavyweight. But if you put Tom in a room with any other pound for pound fighter, he's the one walking out.

So he's a pound for pound back. I do think if he beats John, if he gets the John fight, he beats John, I think at that point that's it. He doesn't need the Pereira one. I think people will just revere that win so much because obviously, like I've said it, like John's, to me, the goat probably like at that point people will revere that win. Jose Aldo ratio will not stand. He's the goat featherweight. For me, you hit the one that I had, Jed, which to me, it feels like Ilya's race to

lose because he's already up there. He has the signature. win over Volkanowski. He could get another signature win over Max Holloway, which would be a very highly rated big fight. And that's the thing, too. Like, to get this kind of spot, you kind of actually need, like, low-key, like, be in these really big marquee fights

that the whole sport centers around. He's going to be one of those with Max. If he beats Max, he might actually fight Sean O'Malley after that if Sean manages to retain the title over Marab. I think at that point, there's like a very real runway where Islam loses to, like, a welterweight or something like that.

he lose the Leon or whoever. And then it's just Ilias. It's Ilias. There he is the resume. He's undefeated. Like he's got the look. He's got the marketability. He's been in these gigantic fights.

To me, he feels like the most obvious shoe in, who has the path in front of him. Although I will say a dark horse from me would be Hamsat Shemayev. Because eventually he won't get to that title fight. And then once that conversation is like valid, you just keep running that trade, buddy. I'm going to keep running it.

Once that conversation's valid though, and he's holding the belt, like I think we will start to, talk about him in those ways. If Ilya beats Max, he's going to jump at least to top four in our rankings. I assume everyone will put him over Pantosha, basically. And they might put him over Leon and Pereira, too. Like, he's just going to be right there. So I think the even like the, the, the odds on favorite for this category would be Alia. Shaheen, I'm a little disappointed. You don't have Kamsat in your rankings, by the way, pound for pound. And Jed, Mike and I all do. Jed and I have

him 12th. Mike, you're a hero. You have Shamaio number nine. I respect it. So much respect. Shemaya was just a super weird dude to rank. Pound for pound. All of his wins are really great, but he just hasn't, he doesn't fight a bunch and so it's hard to figure. Yeah. He's bouncing between two divisions. I don't know what's going on with them, but Shaheen next day, listen, you got to get next, we'll probably do another full division update after 303 maybe. So there's your, oh, we'll do at least. Well, that depends. Depends what's happening at 303. If 303 If 303 is Jamal Hill versus Carlos

Oldberg We might just take that week and off Although that's going to be Deeply fun for me to watch Carlos Holberg Put hands on that man Oh man What a weird world What a weird world

Well fellas last thing we do here today Just quickly we're going to pour one out For our fallen soldiers Who have fallen along the way The names who leave the rankings This ranking cycle we actually have a very long list this time. We don't need to hit all of them at all.

Just a couple notables, though, that I will mention. Number 15 light heavyweight, Ryan Span. Sorry, Ryan Span. You are out now. Salute. You could get back. It's light heavy weight. Obviously, number 10, Michael Chandler.

We've talked about that at lightweight. Number six, women's strawweight, Carla Esparza, who is just inactivity, has taken her out now. Had a baby. Congratulations again, Carla. She's being a mom. Speed a month. And finally, number 15, women's straw weight.

Carolina Colokavich, I think a fan favorite. And she just got back. She had she just got back in. She had clawed her way back into it. But ultimately, it was short. I had to bump her for T-Shil. Yeah. Yeah.

It's fair. It's fair. That's all. A lot of other names, too. But I think those are names that will be back. Tyler Phillips, Melissa Mullins, Fabian Edwards. You know the like. But anyway, it's been fun, fellas.

It's been another episode of the MMA fighting ranking show. I got Mike Heck down there. That is Jedmishu. That is Alexander K. Lee. I am Sean O'SHawty. Keep it locked to MMA fighting all week as we bring you the goods. We've got UFC Louisville this week. What's next?

What's after that? New Vegas. We got some random boxing events coming. And of course, the 303 drama. It does not stop. I think there's a PFL event here soon too. Also, Risen. What the hell?

Saturday midnight. Number four, flyweight. Kjouji, against number. seven phantom weight Sergio Pettus. This is a fly... Oh no, it's a pantomweight belt. Excuse me. It is a band. It's for... I think it's for Sergio's...

Phantom White title or for Bacon. I don't know. I think there's a title on the line, I believe. Set that up great. Big fight. Great job. Great job, Bacon. Thank you. It's the most consequential fight for rankings. We'll get all month. Anyway, we love you guys.

We'll catch you next time. Love you all. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, Almost almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats.

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