MMA Fighting - Rankings Show: Who Are The Least Compelling UFC Champions Right Now?

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

Magomed Ankalaev has conquered the light heavyweight division, dethroning one of the UFC's most popular and exciting champions in Alex Pereira. There's no questioning Ankalaev's championship accolades, but is he a tougher sell to the casual fan and possibly emblematic of the growing malaise fans are experiencing with the UFC product? Who are the most must-see UFC champions right now? And who are the ones fans are least willing to shell out their hard-earned money for? Join the MMA Fighting rankings panel of Alexander K. Lee, Mike Heck, Jed Meshew, and E. Casey Leydon as we take stock of the UFC through it's first three pay-per-views of 2025, grading how well fans are being served, as well as breaking down Pereira's precipitous fall from the No. 2 spot in the MMA Fighting Pound-for-Pound Rankings. And then, we give our picks for the most and least compelling active champions. This could get ugly. Follow Alexander K. Lee @AlexanderKLee Follow Mike Heck @MikeHeck Follow Jed Meshew @JedKMeshew Follow E. Casey Leydon @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I got a great deal on a great gift at Winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. At just $39.99, how could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss?

Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at Winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners, find fabulous for less. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to a new edition of the M.A. Fighting Rankings Podcast.

You're probably wondering, it's been a while. Yes, it's been a while since you've heard my voice. This is your host, of course, Alexander K. Lee. We haven't done a rankings podcast in a while. We haven't done a full up and down division rankings update in a while. If you guys check the website, we have our rankings section. We've done a bit of pound for pound stuff. There's been to shake up here and there.

but not a full breakdown since the end of 2024, where we did kind of a look at all the divisions, who was champions at the end of 2023, and that was a fun exercise. Pardon me, guys. And it seemed very relevant, given that we had so many title fights coming up and many that we thought would see a changing of the guard.

We thought we'd see new champions. We thought we'd have a ton to talk about on podcasts and in articles. And truthfully, that hasn't been the case. That's not to say the cards in bad. That's not to say the champs. have aren't great. But just, you know, just to quickly take a look at it, we had Islam Makachev, the fight with Armand Sarukyan didn't even happen. That was a fight where we thought the challenger had a chance. Instead, Islam fought Hanato Moikano. We had Marab de Valii,

facing Umarna Magamato, undefeated, no longer. Jrikas Tricas Trican-Srican, retained. Zhang Wei Li fighting Tatiazza Juarez, also previously undefeated. Zhang retained, and we just saw, of course, a tell sheades this past weekend. But Here to help me, hopefully drum up some excitement, maybe start the waves of change happening, are my expert panel of rankings panelists. First, we have the great Jen Michoud here. There he is. Hey, guys. He is ready to talk ranking.

It's just been so long since we've done one of these things. It has. I have been given explicit unswerving orders to not pick fights with some people who need to have fights picked. So I won't because I can follow rules. I can adhere to instructions, but just know that in my soul I would like to be engaging in a verbal fist fight right now. But in the absence of that, I'm happy to talk about kind of a lot because there's a lot of stuff that has happened to. since the last time we did one of these. Yeah, not as much stuff as I would hope, though.

But thank you, Jay. Yes, this is not an airing of grievance episode. I know people love the airing of grievances. I don't know. I will probably have to do one again sometime. You know, you've got to do a little bit of bloodletting to let the bad blood clear. But let's try to avoid that today. I'm sure we'll find many opportunities to butt heads.

Also joining us, of course, my best friend, Mike Heck. I got a lot of problems with you people. Oh, God. Sorry. Oh, God. The instructions, judges laid to know, what am I thinking? You're all great. I admire each and every one of you.

And even more so, I admire each and every one of your rankings processes. Processes? Processes? Yes, I'll go with that. You're all great. Happy to be here. That's the energy that we want on the show. I love it.

And on the ones and two is, of course, producer extraordinaire, Casey Leiden, also part of the rankings about. Hi. I'm just here to do. talk about John Jones. Oh, well, we have to, don't we? I mean, you know, because he has a whitebooked? I don't know.

We don't actually. This is our, so this is our group today, guys. We've got, we're going to, the topics need pretty broad today because, again, normally we would talk about big moves that have happened recently, again, other than and Collive just beating Padetta, which really, which is a, you know, big change at the top, but not really a big move, just going from two to one, prayer from one to two. outside of that I mentioned previously I just mentioned title

challenges like moving to the top not that great so the notable movements we've had since December guys so this is we're talking with three months well not obviously two months and a bit that we've had a chance for fighters to make moves a lot of fighters held serve frankly

but Nasor de Imovov beats Israel Adis and I would say we all agree is a top five middleweight unless you drop Adesanya is super low and put him above ahead of him that way but I think we all like what Nasradiensia is done and we see him fighting for the title sooner rather than later. Manal Cobb,

I think, officially in the top five. People could argue. I think people really like him. People might have had him high already. In our rankings, he was only number 10 heading into the Osum Obaya fight, but he took care of business in an impressive way and jumps five spots to number five. And Song Yadong, not quite in the top 10, but picks up a pretty big win, beats Henry Suhudo, who is still ranked in our rankings and the UFC rankings. And it's moving up. Song Yadongi Don's moving up. But that's it. That's it, guys. I wasn't underselling it when I said there wasn't a lot of movement.

Again, we have a lot of fighters who had opportunities to possibly move into the top 10, into the top five. And it just didn't happen. So we're going to talk about that more in a moment, but I think we have to tackle the big news of the week so far, which, of course, Alex Perr losing the light heavyweight towel to Magma and Koliath. In the main event of USB 313, very competitive fight. A tough way for Paredo's run to end after a sensational 20. 24 campaign that had him as our runner-up, I believe, for a fighter of the year. He falls a lot, guys.

Obviously, he falls one spot in light heavyweight, but he was our number two, number two pound-for-pound fighter on that list. We had one panelist, I'll just say he's not here, but Guillermo, Guillermo Cruz, had Peretta number one. This month now, of course, with a loss, it is all six votes for Islam Makachev. And Alex Petera drops to number 10, all the way from 2 to 10. because Anka Live has to enter somewhere. Anka Live, I believe we all agreed at some point, to the point that he reached number nine, I just say, excuse me. So Anka Live number nine, Pereira number 10.

Jed, did we get this right, man? Is it fair to drop him all the way to number 10? So yes and no. I think big picture we got this correct. I would quibble in my own rankings. I have Pereira, I think two, one or two spots higher. I can't honestly remember. But it's fundamentally right in that he is the first non-champian in our men's pound-for-pound rankings.

And I think that that is objectively where he should be, right? Like, obviously the champions are the guys who are on these bigger win streaks have been accomplishing a bunch. Alex was among them and nearly atop them. But the loss just changes the math for it. It changes the dynamic. And especially it's like, I think people really underestimate how good the current crop of champions. is. And we'll talk about part of this later. Like they, not a ton of store power, but these resumes that they are putting forth, almost all of them are really, really good right now. Like,

Islamakov has five wins over currently ranked opposition, whatever. Maraba's like four or five wins. Driggis 2 plus C, the same. Like, these are all really spectacular resumes, the totality of it. And so small margins, the loss means you drop. The real quibble I have, here is that we continue to rank John Jones. But factoring in John Jones, if we're counting him as a champion, which I guess technically we are, having Pereira as the first guy outside of the champions, I think it's structurally correct. I think that that's where he deserves to be at this point in time. That's a great point, Jed. Yes, on our consensus list, John Jones number eight. So he is literally one spot above Ancolaev and two spots above Padeta. If Jed had his way and we had no John

Jones, then Anklea, a little bit higher, John Jones, off the list entirely. But that is not where we are. This is not where we are as a society. That is not where we are as a society. Yeah, we're not. Well, we're saying basically, like, if you look at our rankings, there are nine UFC champions and then Alex Pereira is the top ten. And then the back ten is a mix of former champions of like long-reigning champions,

like your Max Holloways, your Leon Edwards. And then, like, undefeated rising wonderkins, the arm and Sirukians, Hamza Chamaio Shafkaat Rakhmanovs. I think that this is correct. Structurally, it is a two-tiered system of champs and not champs, and Pereira is right where he should be in relation to that. Yeah, it's not a bad spot. It's not a bad spot. I think people will see the drop. I've saw some comments on YouTube. I saw some comments on wherever we posted the social media. Obviously, it's like, oh, this is outrageous. How can he drop so far of one loss? Did you forget what he did? And I'm like, guys, it's just kind of how the math works out.

I think you've outlined in pretty well. And like we said, Ankelaif has to go in there somewhere. most likely above him. And if that's the case, you're either putting ankylai, if you want to keep putting an high spot, you're either putting ankelai in an even higher spot, or you are having to drop prayer down. That's kind of the way most of us went. Mike, I want you to comment on that as well,

but I also want to ask, did we have Panetta too high? Is it, I mean, again, we all agree, 2024 was white hot. Even if, you know, we all kind of agree light heavy weight isn't a strong division, his run was just so impressive. Of course, he is a two-division chance,

And he had also won the title of middleweight. Did we get him too high and that's what's making the drop look worse? Or this is just how it is? And do you believe that he was the number two or number three pound for pound further in the world at one point? Or even number one, arguably number one. So I've been thinking about this ever since the question was presented. And you could certainly make a case that he was too high. The problem is most of these guys that are on the list around the same place as him,

are nowhere near as active as Alex Pereir is. Like, Islam Makachev, maybe you get two fights a year out of him. Ily Tuporia fought twice last year. DDP's a guy who fights once or twice a year. Pantosia's a twice a year guy. Marab's a twice a year guy. Like run down the list. These guys are, Blahman only fought once last year.

We're just, you have to look at it in that sense. Like, you could make a case for all these guys skill for skill that they could be two, three, four, et cetera. But Pereer just kept inching his way up and getting wins and getting knockouts and doing it in dominant fashion. I guess, like, he should have been in the top three. I think in everybody's pound for pound rankings. I think that's only fair.

But I think most of that just goes by the way of him being in the cage and fighting way more than everybody else on this list right now. Pereira just doesn't want to take time off. He doesn't want to take breaks. Dude wants to get in there every three to four months, 37 years of age. There's something to that. It certainly helps when you're making that climb. up the rankings, but that activity can ding you in the end, because once you lose,

depending on who you lose to and how it happens, it's a big fall down. So, yeah, I think we got it right, but I think it has more to do with activity than who is the actual best fighter. Yeah, availability is the best ability, as we say, and Pere's been available. And not just available. Again, it's not like he just showed up three times in 2024 and got the job done. Those fights are so memorable. Those finishes are so memorable.

We love the Alex Pereira story. It's hard not to push that. And like you guys said, it's hard not to, every time he wins, inch him up a spot, inch him up another spot. Probably, again, to a place where when he entered the UFC, we never thought he would reach number two, number three. Again, one first place vote from Guillermo. It's an amazing story. And I know it hurts people to see him suddenly drop down on this list, but it's a game of inches at this point. Like, 10 is very close, I would say it's very close to seven, six, five.

I see people, again, the comments that were very upset. Like, oh, how could he be below Balal? How could he be below so and so? And it kind of for the reasons you mentioned, Mike, like, we've seen Alex fight a lot. We have not seen Bilal fight that often, unfortunately. And also his fighting style, people aren't infatuated with it. And that might be a nice way to put it. The other thing affecting this, or sorry, I shouldn't say affecting this,

that probably has people asking, why is he dropping so far? I do want to ask, how did we all score that fight? So I know you guys done post-fight show. Mike, we've done on to the next one. I feel like we all scored for Padena, right? Razor close, not a robbery. I know I had 48-47 Padenaeta, Jed. I did 48-47 Pereira on live on rewatch.

I think Uncle I've won. Okay. And I don't, well, I don't agree. I don't think 49-46 is even like awful. No, I don't think that that's viable. Not how I would score it. I give 48-47 Uncle I have on the rewatch, but very close fight. If Pereira won, I also would not have.

have had an issue with that. Yeah. Mike, you had it 4847 live for Pareda as well? Yes, and the rewatch, I had a 4847 prayer as well. Oh, oh, interesting. That's right. I think I saw it, yes, okay, I've heard, I think I've heard you talk about this.

Casey, I'm curious. Do you remember how you scored it live? Do you have any idea or at least who you thought, even not just who you thought one, who you thought one when you watched it. I definitely thought Encoliath one. I had four one. Okay. But four one, but more likely three, two.

Yeah. But I would, I would, I would, I scored it. I scored it. I scored it 3-2, but really I kind of had a 4-1 in my head. Going to the fifth round, the fight was already over for me. And, yeah. So the closest to the fight didn't have that. But I see all, but I understand everyone's score.

This is, I think it's one of those definitely fights were, yeah, 3-2 prayer. We're totally acceptable. Yeah, let's be honest. Neither guy really stole the show. We don't need to relitigate this, like how, you know, the negative, I think, reception from a lot of the, you know, widespread fans to the, to the bet. Which is a very intense bout, very skilled bout, but I think we can agree light on the entertainment side, at least just for, again, if your average Joe Blow watching the card. And those opinions are just as valid as anyone else.

So I was very fascinated by the fight as it was happening. I completely understand. I will probably not watch it again anytime soon. I think a lot of people won't, and that's more than fair. Okay. So again, we just wanted to bring this topic up first. Don't know if a lot needs to be said about it. Again, our rankings are pretty infallible.

So I think we all agree where genius is. We dropped him. We nailed it, guys. We nailed it, guys, send your angry comments to us on Twitter. I already get, I already see some in the comments of the post, the pound for pound post. I see it on the comments. I see it on all the social graphics. So, Casey?

Go ahead, Casey. The one thing I will say about my own rankings, I know my rankings are a little different for everyone else's, but I do actually have. What do you mean? What do you mean? I do have prayer, though, above Ankylaev. This is, to me, this is similar to that kind of situation when I, had after the first fight, I had Volcanowski ahead of Mahachev in the pound for pound,

but obviously not in the actual divisional rankings. And I kind of have it the same way here. Obviously in the divisional rankings, I have Ankylaev is number one, but pound for pound, I do still have prayer above pound for pound, Ankelyev. Because you're taking into account the middleweight history as well. I also, this also happened, I think most notable. with Peña and Nunes. I had to look back. I'm pretty sure when Pena

won the first Nunes fight, she did not pass Nunes in our pound rankings. I'm pretty sure. I would have to look back to history. Obviously, Pena took a big job. I think Pena was at the time not ranked, maybe because she was inactivity,

and she jumped, obviously, into the top five, but I'm pretty sure we still had Nunes ahead of her. So it's rare. It can happen. And I think also because we were all just like, well, they're going to rematch and Nunes is going to work for ass,

which is what happened. But, yes, it's rare, but it happens. happens. Jedd, you're making a face. I'm just not sure that's true. Okay. I don't remember.

I just remember us having like a lot of talks about how the Pena Nunes fight just like butchered our whole pound for pound thing. Right. I will go back and like the same with Grasso, Chef Chango is like, what the hell do we do now? I don't think that's true. I think Pena had passed Nunes in our Pound for Bound rankings. You could prove me wrong if you felt compelled to.

I don't remember or maybe some people. I recollection is not that that happened. Okay, I will double check. I will double check. Here's what I will say. Because I have been told that I am not allowed to pick a fight. So you are allowed to, listen, I think people know the fight I'd like to pick. I will say this.

I will say this. Casey has opened the door. He mentioned his ranking. You sure has. Please politely, please politely discuss. I can pick a fight if he wants to pick a fight. I'm not picking a fight. I gave my word.

I'm sticking with it. Here's what I will say. It is, I don't agree with this. by any stretch. I at least can accept there is a not unreasonable, and I choose those words very carefully, because I'm not saying it's a reasonable argument, but it is not an entirely irrational argument

for Pereira to stay ahead of guys like Maguire and Ecclionef, Tom Aspernel, John Jones. I do not agree. I don't think it's reasonable, but it's not entirely insane. based on the level of dominance over better opposition in nominally better weight classes than heavy weight or whatever. Even so, that's still me, like, it would be by any definition unreasonable

to have him above Drickus duplice, Rodolshev, Alejandro Pantoja. So, like, for the people who are like, he's still top five, he dropped too much. There's just no way. At the absolute best you can put him at is seven because he did lose that. fight. And again, we actually got it right, but I just want to speak to those people who are probably watching this in furious because he's the best pound for pound fighter in the world. And he barely lost. He didn't actually lose housing now barely in the top 10. It's like absolute best you could make this dude seven right now. And reasonably, that's not even correct.

Do you have a lot? Take the fight if you like. No, I'm not going to pick a fight. The UFC has Pereira at 8. He's ranked number 8 in their rankings. It's not much of a difference between 9 or 10 and ours. So everybody sort of sees it the same way. It's more so if you're a long time fan. If you're

a newer fan and you just like to pick fights with every single thing you see, even if we, can you imagine if we had Alex Pereira number 5? Can you imagine the fan outrage if we had Alex Pereer number 5? There'd be so much. Jamal Hill would have lost his mind. He would have done a whole

friggin podcast about us if we had Alex Pereira number five. So I think we got it right. Anywhere from eight to 12, I think is a fine spot for him. I mean, he got beat by Magamacan Ancolaev. It wasn't a thrilling affair and he did not fight well. Like Ankelyev took a fight that he probably did not expect and was like, oh, thank you, Mr. Pereira. I will gladly take your belt since you're just handing it to me on a silver platter.

because you're not doing anything. He fought terribly on Saturday night. Like, I heard of mince words. He fought awful. He was not a championship caliber on Saturday night. He certainly wasn't a performance to clearly defeat Magamette Ankyov, the number one light heavyweight in the world right now. So I think the drop is fair.

I'm okay with it. I don't think there's any problem with it. And if you have an issue with it, start your own rankings. Kick rocks. Damn. My best friend, picking a fight with Poetan and the rest of the NBA community has said of us, I'll take that. No, look, Peron is a great champion. Dude fought all the time.

He just fought too much and it caught up with him. Like, that was, we got to humanize the man as well. And this whole thing, fraud check and exposed. Yeah, it's crazy. I don't know if, I don't know if the fans know this. Light heavyweight is just a horrible division. It's awful. It's awful.

Just the worst deficient. So, Casey, go ahead. And that's my issue with Pereira and my overall low ranking of him pound for pound. It's just, it's a bad division. Our issue is not with you and your Pereira ranking, but that's a podcast for a different day. Oh, okay, all right. That's all. That's, please.

No or no. Oh, we have other issues. Sorry. No, no, no. Just because I don't want to leave the list. This is bad. Unless you just don't know you did this, Casey, you have Uncle I have at 20. So unless that's a stone mistake, that's the issue, which I won't fight because I swore I wouldn't.

Yeah. But that's the concern. No fighting. No fighting. Please. Oh, yeah, because, yeah, because 205 isn't a strong division. That's why. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, it's, it's, it's, that's only reason. It's, that's, that's the only reason. Casey, I had your back. I had your back. We had a little pre-show discussion about this. I had your back.

I said, I said, I said, I'm more bothered that people are still ranking Henry Suu. I said, that's, that's where my beef is. So this isn't even the most egregious thing that's happened this week. I had A.K. Tell me I can't do stuff. That was less egregious. You didn't want to rank, you didn't want to rank, hold on. No, no, you didn't want to rank Brian Ortega over, over, yeah, year after he beat him. You know, like, Brian Ortega beat him. And you're like, I'm still on recid. I'm leaving. I'm going to lightweight.

He was like, I'm leaving. Go to lightweight. I thought that was a viable excuse. It's viable. I don't agree with it. It is viable. It is a viable excuse. I don't agree with it. I had to pull a rank.

I'm sorry. That's how strong your case was. That's the only way I got out of it. I will, so just to put a pin on this, Jed, I went back to our archives. When the, a month after, so this is when he did our first pound-for-pound update after Julianna Pena Pena, beat Amanda Nunes in December 2021.

We did not put her above Amanen-Ninez. she was we thought so little of this not so little but you know we thought so much of what I'm in

we thought so much of what I'm gonna Nunez had done up to that point that we didn't know right the first time she was also a two division champion of course also raining over the illustrious featherweight division let's not forget so we had what we had when was

Nunes was number one she got penalized she got penalized by dropping to number two so Valentina became number one. We had the Valentina Amanda flip-flop, which just happened a few times. Rose was number three at the time. Chris Cyborg number four, Julianna Pena debuting White Hot debut at number five. So, I mean, you're right. She'll have unranked number five. It's not bad. Like, I think we gave her her flowers. Shaheen wrote this one up and he just wrote, um, Pena's upset, certainly a landscape changer at 135 five pounds, though it wouldn't be surprising if she has asked to replicate her improbable

feet again in a rematch against Dunez next before the division can fully embrace its new UFC champion, which is, I think is a vibe a lot of us had, which is not fair at all to Juliana. Like, we shouldn't say, you don't get that spot unless you beat this woman twice. But this was pretty unprecedented, like, circumstances. Like, I don't, I don't know if it was that bad. So this, that was a weirder. I remember that one. The one I remember maybe more than anything in a new champion was when Leon Edwards beat

Kamar Usman and won the well title. Oh, that was tough. That was, that was a podcast for the ages. What did we do? What did we decide on? I think Jed had Leon at like number three or something after winning the belt and it was just a whole thing. It was, it was a shop, it was not shop, bad. It was was a hot. I was still like theoretically a welterweight. I was like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was a terrific podcast. That was a terrific job. Oh, God. Okay. Well, we listen. We get, we get a whole season of awful stuff happened. Sean Strickland winning and just like the rankings weren't possible for seven months because a bunch of insane things kept happening.

Now this year it's just like all the champions are staying champion. Be boring. Jet, thank you for the perfect segue. We could go over our greatest hits for the next half an hour. But that's a perfect segue. We're in a little bit of a boring stretch results wise. Again, not to inside, you know, at the beginning I mentioned all the champions that retained their title.

So no disrespect to Makachev, Devalis, Ruele, Drickis, Zhang Wei Li, great champions. All of them have been some exciting fights. But their success prevented us from having any shakeups and any real drama. And I think that's being felt a little bit. I could be wrong. I don't speak for the whole fan base, but I think people can kind of glance at the commentary during these UFC events,

the first two months and a bit of UFC events. And there does seem to be a growing discontent with what they're seeing. Whether it's because people at the top aren't losing their spots, that we're not saying any surprising results, there's something something is missing. But we also have a pretty compelling slate of fights coming up leading up to May. I don't think we have anything for June yet. I don't think anything big for June yet.

By the way, we're almost looking ahead to the all the way up to the halfway point of the year. So, guys, considering what we've seen so far and what the UFC has managed to put on the schedule heading into the next few months, how do you grade? Let's go letter grade. How do you grade the start of 2025 for the UFC so far? Mike, can I go to you first? God, this is so hard to answer because business-wise, they're destroying it. Yes, business-wise, A-plus-plus-plus. Business-wise, A-plus-plus.

Oh, yeah, 100%. No question. This is strictly sort of entertainment. Like, if you're a fan, you're a fan, you don't care about their stock number is at. You're just like, am I being entertained by this product? Like, what do you got? This should be a D. Whoa.

It should be. Because they are not trying. They're not trying. UFC Seattle is sort of a different story because they lost a bunch of really good fights. But outside of UFC 311 was a great card. That was a great way to start the year. UFC 312 was ass, like all the way up to the actual event. There's nothing exciting about UFC 312.

Sure, we had the rematch for the belt. We were all excited about that. And maybe Tatiana Swartz could be Zhang Wei Li. But even then, I don't think. Outside of those top two fights, no one gave a shit about that pay-per-view card. Nobody. And then 313, yes, you had Pereira. Yes, you had Gaichi, losing Dan Hooker sucked. But again, like outside of it, hardcore fans understood the kinds of fights you're going to get on that main card.

But there were like no stakes, nothing really cool on the prelims outside of Josh Van and the Saruya fight. So it was just kind of a hardcore fan's delight. And the UFC is just throwing darts and having things stick to the wall. And it doesn't, that's fine because it works. and people will watch everything. And I saw Luke Thomas talk about this on Twitter, and I think about this all the time. The majority of the MMA fan base is not us.

It's the newer crop of fans. That is who they cater towards. That is who they want. That is who they promote for. They promote for the people who are going to like and watch every power slap event, anything Dana White touches. They think Dana is going to take them out

and play blackjack with them, his own private blackjack table. Like they will support anything Dana White does. And they will support the product, however it may go, because they are a newer fan. They don't know any better. They never got to watch Robbie Lawler fight and defend a welterweight title in all-time classics. They just know what they've been given. And that is empty arena events or arena's fight nights at the apex with 116 people in it.

That's what they feel is what the product actually is. When in reality, the product is not that. doing it, traveling road show, six to 25,000 fans on a Saturday night watching these fight cards. They are used to fight cards happening every Saturday, maybe getting a week off once every 15 Saturdays. This is what they're used to.

This is what they expect. For us, we expect more. We expect the best fight promotion in the world to put their best foot forward as much as they possibly can. And what we're getting is not that. We're getting just, okay, we just got to fulfill this obligation. to our fans and to our media partners to put these events on.

Look at UFC Vegas 104. AK just said it to a live microphone. We have a lot of compelling things between now and May and June. I can tell you that AK was not talking about UFC Vegas 104. Marvin Vittori didn't even know who he was fighting when he signed the contract. He thought he was fighting Roman Coppulov. He didn't know he was fighting Roman DeLizzi again. But again, from a business perspective and from, hey, this is what we're trying to do perspective,

it doesn't matter because they already have the people who they want to cater to defending every move they make. These are the same people who defend Alex Pereira being ranked number nine and not being ranked number five. So on that as, so I will give it a fair C plus. UFC 314 fucking rocks. That card is spectacular. That's what we are hoping from the UFC as much as possible. We know that's not possible, but as much as they possibly can just putting together a fresh fight card. with compelling storylines that people care about,

whether they're good things or bad things, that they're trying to promote, they are trying for the Miami cards. The rest of the slate, look at Montreal. You got two title fights on there, and that's cool, and it's a pretty good lineup of, like, good fighters,

but no one's going to watch that pay-per-view. Nobody. We're going to watch it, and then maybe 12% of the fan base they're trying to cater to is going to watch it. So that's going to be kind of a fail for them. I'll say C-plus, man, Like, if we're looking for it, how many, I'm trying to think of how many BTLs and preview shows that we have had were like, oh, can't wait for tomorrow, can't wait for Saturday.

They are few and far between and compared to what they did in 2024 to this point. This is not the same, man. So C plus, and I think that's being real generous. Well, I mean, you started at D. So, I mean, you talk to yourself up to a C plus. That's, you know, that's not terrible. Well, wow, I'm breathless. I just need a moment.

That was, I'm breathless just listening to you go off like that, my best friend. That was powerful stuff. Obviously, I'll be a little more positive when it comes time to give my grade. But, Jet, can you go a little higher than a C plus? Do you have it in your heart? No, I think C-C-minus is correct. It's fine. Like, this is passing.

And that passing is basically what to expect from the UFC at this point. point in time. But like in a very simple, we've had, let me actually count this. One, two, three, four, five, six. Eight events. Three pay-per-views. Two of them were good. Like two, like one and a half. Three-11 was good. And then it had some things happen. That was unfortunate. Three-12 had two title fights that were good and trash. And three-13 had one title fight and a great co-main event that became an, like a fine co-mean event. And was more fun than it probably looked on paper, but like that's none of that's good. All of the support stuff has been bad.

Three apex cards that have been somehow getting worse. Like the apex shows are on a progressive decline, capped off by this weekend, which obviously is not part of what we are discussing, but this weekend is the worst of them all. The couple of road shows that weren't even good. Like Seattle was good at one point and then fell apart. And, you know,

the U.S. you can't really help that, but they also don't get credit. because they tried to do something decent and then it stopped happening. Like, Saudi is the best non-paper view card. And that was good. It was like a, rock solid.

But to Mike's point, like, we've done eight preview shows. I've been, like, genuinely excited about three. And that was being generous to 313 because the main event was something

I really was interested in. And like the main and co-main of 312 are good, but the totality of the fights being offered or they are not nearly a substantive or meaningful. And then you add on the like the outcomes have been boring this year, right? Like this is our first new champion and it is one of the least rewatchable fights. I enjoyed my time watching Maguire and I'm not going to re-watch that one over and over again. So there have been highlights because there are always highs and lows in the sport.

But, you know, week in, week out, I am telling me. fans more often than I am not telling them, hey, do you have something else to do? Don't worry about it, right? Like go to mavefighting.com. We'll keep you updated on the important stuff and check back. If you don't, if you know, you're college kid, you had nothing to do on Saturday night, tune in. Be fun. You'll have a decent enough time. But this is a shockingly poor effort from them, given that they are in a contract year. And I thought they would be trying a little harder to up their status prior to their broadcast rights deal negotiation. But benefits of monopoly, right?

Like they don't have to try anymore. And so they won't. They will never try ever again. And we just have to be comfortable with it. And I'm there. I haven't had a bad time this year. But this ain't good. Yeah.

I mean, look, the way the UFC looks at this right now is they have 314 and they know everybody is excited about this is the type of card that our new broadcast distribution company can have. We could have this. And if they somehow, some way get John Jones to fight Tom Aspinall, like that's it.

That's all they need. That's all they need to make this a great year. And every time Dana says, well, the media sucks and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We gave you John Jones

versus Tom Aspinal. All these people said that fight would never happen, that John was scared that we could never pull this off and look what we just did because we're the best. They have that.

And again, all is this is brilliant. It's smart. They are just, making money hand over fist, it's just not what we, what we care about overall, because again,

they don't need to. They have no stars. They have popular fighters that people have fans have invested some of their emotions into, but there is no Connor McGregor. There is no million pay-per-view by draw outside of Connor on this roster right now. Maybe if they get

Jones Aspen all together, potentially. But they just have potential, and they have those three letters, and they have the bald man with the billions of dollars. And that's all they need to be successful. So this is what we're going to get. And I've accepted it. I don't have to love it, but I've accepted it.

The UFC did it. They did it. They secured a monopoly. They secured a monopoly and the three letters are by far the biggest stars in the UFC. And that's what they've always wanted. And they did it. So A plus from the U.S. UFC on a business standpoint.

Always. As a fan, solid D, solid D. Oof. I was coming to you, Casey, for some, that classic E. Casey Leiden pro UFC rhetoric, but not today, I guess. UFC, U.S. 311 ruled. I mean, I mean, I know that R-W-1 thing sucked.

That was great. It was great on paper. And the last second main event changed sucked, but I'm actually not going to blame you of UFC on that. But I thought it was a great card, but outside of that, solid D. but they don't have to do any better they don't have to do any better because what i said before yeah monopoly they don't consumers suffer during all monopolies that's why we tried really hard to litigate around them um but you know yay capitalism or whatever i will give the you see some

marginal amount of leap grace here in that their year is worse than it should have been like on paper they had better things go yeah and a bunch of stuff fell apart that is the nature of the fight game and they have not had any backup plans, which is sort of their own mistake. But Menel Cop Brandon Raval was a great fight that became Minokop Osama Vayaev. Islam Akshiv, Armin Surukin, was on all of our lists of most anticipated fights and fell apart and became Hanato Moicano, which is, you know, lemons out of lemonade there or whatever, but it's not great. Like they've had things fall apart, Gachi Hooker.

And so, you know, a little bit of grace there for them, but I, out, like, front of the From a fan perspective, I just don't see how you think of this has been a good year thus far. Yeah, even at my most positive, like, I think everything you say is correct. And again, it's when I pose this question, it is not how did the UFC do like planning this year. It is not like how did they do on paper with their matchups? Because again, we all agree they gave us, again, Makachov's through cancel, what we wanted. We just didn't get it. Not their fault.

Umar was the number one contender. We were all saying Marab, stop running away from this guy or stop not promoting this fight. just accept this your next opponent. We got the fight anyway. DDP, Sean Strickland, we all agreed that that was a rematch that both guys earned. Like the results made sense

to put that together, no complaints there. And Tatiana Serra has got her title shot after years of just like injuries and setbacks. So on paper, there's like, UFC could not have done, and Goli, of course, just got his teleshot as well and won it.

On paper, the UFC could not have done a better job with putting these together. But if we're grading what we've seen, again, this is not a criticism of the company. This is almost a, some of it is. This is a criticism as a fan, like, are you happy with what you've seen so far?

It's probably really tough, I think, to say like, oh, A plus, I've enjoyed every moment of watch. I've watched every card this year. I've watched every fight. I've enjoyed every moment. Pretty unlikely. It doesn't affect the U.S. In the long run.

It doesn't affect them this year, really, because they still had great moments, as we've pointed out. I won't go over all this again. I don't even think we mentioned the who feed knockout. I mean, they can replay that knockout a million times for the next nine months. It's all good.

But I think we all agree. disappointing. We're not having the best time as fans. And that leads us, sadly, into our last question. I didn't mean for the show to flow so, uh, so well. I mean, you always, you always hope for it, guys, but, uh, this is kind of a bad flow. This is like a flow of duke that we've got going down right now. And yeah, ooh, that's a bar. That's a bar. Uh, so we ended on this question, which was initially more positive, but like for the sake of a show, we're like, we kind of had to create a discussion here. So we're going a little of a mini ranking in the ranking show. what are who are say the three current champions that you are most looking forward to see fight next

whether they have a fight booked or not just like think of the champion what could potentially be in store for them who do you what champions do you want see a fight next name three can be in any order and then who are the least who are the least so we will start with the most the least jeez the least i'm just saying that's unnecessary i it's not about a yeah i see a lot of a lot of unhappy fans and media on the interweb saying, like, boy, the championship situation is in a dire strait. So we'll start with the positive. What three champions are looking forward to most? Chad, you look eager.

Excuse me. So when we talked about this, I thought that this would be mean for the least part. But whenever we get to that, not going to be that bad for me. Most, this is very, very easy. No one will be remotely surprised that trick is to play. is easily number one in my book. He has been one of the four most important fighters to me of the past three years. He is deeply fun and funny, and I suspect will remain atop this list for some time for me,

whether it's as champion or not. So easily Drickus Deucis, especially the fact that he has like an incredible fight planned, right? That's not on the books, but the assumption is DDP takes on Hamzaa Chamaev, one of the most anticipated fights that I could have in the whole sport on top of just sign me up for watching DDP fight somebody. Not the same, but also at this point, I will watch Alejandro Pintoja fight a broom. Like, it does not matter. He is just an incredibly impressive, fun individual.

And, you know, rumors about who could be. There's rumors that Kikar Francis has got the next shot. Manel Kopp has obviously sort of inserted himself. as a possibility. Either of those fights very much looking forward to despite rematches.

I don't care. Just I want to watch pants do business. And number three, sort of a cop-out, but it's how I feel in the heart. I don't care who he fights. Is Lamakchev is the best

pound-fought fighter in the world? He is making an argument that he is the greatest lightweight of all time. That's the best division ever. So being the best in the best division, it's really impressive. If it's up for welterweight

to pursue a second belt. I mean, there's not an active fighter who deserves that opportunity more. And if it is just Justin Geichi or Ilya Taborium or whoever it ends up being, I will watch the greatest fighter on planet Earth fist fight anybody. And

I think he is that and possibly one of like the 10 best fighters ever. So he has to be number three. Oh, so that is ranked in order of preference. That is ranked in order of preference. Oh, wow. Okay. because I love,

Pantoja, because he is deeply fun. Mokachev gets slightly dinged because I don't know what is next, whether it's a welterweight, whether it's Ilya, whether it's Gae, whatever, but it still is a Mokachev

who gives the shit. He's the best fighter in the planet. Mike, did you land on the same list in a different order, different names altogether? Where are you going with your top three most anticipated champions? Islam's number one for me

because Mike Jed just kind of ended up with every fight that is a possibility for him is interesting, indifferent, and fun. Because this whole thing of Islamakachap being a boring fighter, and I still see this, I don't understand how you can actually say this at this point, because the last two years, he's either had the fight of the year or arguably has had the fight of the year. Plus, he's had knockout of the year and submission of the year contenders.

I just don't know what else this guy needs to do to get rid of the boring label, but he's either going to fight Justin Gaci, Charles Oliver, Armin Sarukin, or Ilya, all those fights bang or Jack Delamadalina or Jack Delamadalada true if he moves up and that I'm glad you say that Jed because that leads me to

because I'm kind of with you I looked at the crop of champions and again like we look at UFC 315 on paper and Belaw Muhammad is a very good fighter and he's on a great run and he's fighting Jack Delamadalana and in today's UFC the fans want vitriol they want beef They want some sort of rivalry, and you're just not going to get it here with Ballal and JDM.

You got it with Bilal and Leon a little bit because Belal did his darnness to try to peek some interest there, and it worked to some degree, but you're just not going to get this here, and you're not going to get it with Valencien and Chico and Manon Fioro as much as Manifioro wants to try. So the problem you run into with a lot of these divisions is either A, they're going to fight the same dude they just beat, Or B, they're going to fight a dude that probably shouldn't be getting a title shot. And JDM, well, great, is not the number one contender. Shafkat is the number one contender. And you have to move the division line, get that.

But we want to see Shafkot fight for the belt. And then if JDM gets next, cool. And maybe JDM wins the belt and that changes everything. But Islam, to me, is number one. DDP is number two, because we're going to get Homsup more than likely. If not, we get Nasredeen, Imovov, or those are probably the two choices. both of those are very intriguing in their own right. Three, I'll say, you know what, I'm going with Tommy Aspinall.

I'm going to the interim heavyweight champion. And the reason I say that is when Tom Aspinall fights again, and God, it better be this way. One of two things is going to happen. One, he's either fighting John Jones to unify the belts or he is going to fight as the undisputed heavyweight champion for the first time without having to fight John Jones. And because Tom Aspinall will be fighting,

that means we are one day, one step closer to moving this heavyweight division along. And if you want to say light heavyweight division is a bad division, I'll stand there and hold the sign with you. But heavyweight is by far the worst division of the sport. It is so bad. There's 19 fighters on the roster. Waldo Cortez Acosta is fighting on Saturday.

He is ranked number 12 in this division. He's ranked number 12. after beating five and one in the UFC. He beat rebellious. Talas and Tashin Tashir's had one fight in the UFC and he's ranked 14.

The hell is going on here. This division needs to move along and needs something. And the biggest step is it needs Tom Aspenol fighting. That's it. And the second biggest step is signing Rook Rook.

But we're ways away from both of these things happening, unfortunately. Casey, anything to add to this? similar names. I bet you'll have Pentosia on your list. I'm trying to think. Who else would you? Actually,

top three champions I want to see fight. Give me. They're real champion. Tommy Aspin off. I want to see him fight. I don't care who. Number two, Wei Lee.

Depending, because the performance I saw from Wei Lee against Tatiana Suarez, I picked her to win, but the way she won, seeing it was just, I'm still like, that's still maybe my favorite,

performance of the year because to me what I saw was the best the best female fighter I've ever in one moment fight in front of me I thought she's just at her peak right now and I want to see her I want to see her I want to see her valentina and so I just want to see how good way Lee is right now I don't want her loser I don't want to lose her for another year like we had last year before and number three tied Marab and Islam because both of them are on right now are on their route on the way

to becoming the I guess goats of their division especially Marab because there is no Bantamweight goat and I think with one more victory, one more championship victory Mrob may be by default the best bantam weight ever so those are kind of my picks

Waley was my four so I'm with you on that also I have never been a fan of this individual Dominicruz is the Bannon-Wa-Wa-Go and everyone just has to get on board I don't even like him he's clearly the Bannamway code I agree I think but I think it's kind of by default because there isn't yet if you have to name someone I guess you go Cruz but I think I think Marab

his five Bannamweight title defenses I know good I know and it yeah it is I just like I don't like Dominic Cruz and been put in a position we're like, he's clearly it and I don't know why people don't want to do it for him. He should be undeniable because he should have had 27 defenses.

It's that big thing. He's that big should. He's a big, yeah. Like he should be even more so, but he still very clearly is the band and white goat. But neither here nor there. With you on Wiley, she was my number four. Marab,

I, like, I want to put Marab on there so bad because that fight with Umar, was so good. Like, it was so effing good. It was, it's probably the best fight of the year so far. If we're really looking at it, if we look, if we're doing like quarterly awards, this fight, that fight probably wins fight of the quarter. It was just so damn good.

And the problem is, I have no interest in watching Marab fight Sean O'Malley again. Just zero. Absolutely none. That fight is not going to go any differently. So, and the other issue is Marab has fought everybody else already. except Corey Sanhagen. So yeah, it's just, it's tough, man. It's very, very tough out there for a lot of these champions

because they've either ran through most of their division already and have already fought these dudes, like Pantosia, who I enjoy watching fistfight. Varab is kind of in a similar being right now. And it's kind of where Magam and Ancolaev is right now if he beats Pereira in the rematch and we have to hope maybe he gets to fight Yuri and Yuri just waits to fight Ankelaif. if he beats Pereira, but that's no guarantee either. So, yeah, it's tough. Kind of tough out there.

Yeah, I've definitely seen this point brought up that one reason why it's so, coming off some of these title wins, it's so hard to immediately find compelling challengers because they fought them already. You mentioned Pantosha, Duolzvili, Balal had to go to crazy win streak or undefeated streak, Angolaev, crazy undefeated streak. So, yes, by the time they get to the top, it's a lot of rematches waiting for them,

and not necessarily rematches that people are, like, knocking the door down for us. So this is a problem of the UFC's own making. This is a problem of the UFC's own making, booking, sometimes booking unnecessary rematches, having people jump the line when they didn't deserve to jump the line. And again,

you probably got a little bit of short-term gain there, but you have now given yourself quite a matchmaking headache with some of these champions. And these are worthy champions. These are guys, again, who if they got the opportunity, maybe would have won the title two or three fights ago. And, you know, maybe you would have been in a similar place, but I think you would have had a few more options.

I want to move on, but let me just say, so the list were Jed most, so the most anticipated, Jed, number one, Jurykis, then Pantoja, Makachev, Mike, number one, Makachev, then DDP, then Tommy Aspenol,

and Casey going with Tom Aspel, number one, then Jean-Wei Lee, and then either Makachev or DeWalish-Filly. It probably depends, like, who they end of fighting next. But all right, guys, let's keep this next part short that.

Oh, I don't, I'm the host. I'm the host. I don't have to share my opinion. Okay. I don't have to tell people how excited I am to see Julianna Pena fight Kayla Harrison, because I think we all know that's the case.

So if I were cheating, I would definitely probably have, I probably have I have I have I have I have to put it. That kind of goes to the Makachev thing, though. There might be a part of me saying Ilya just because I am hoping that they make the Makachov thing happen, even though we have not given a strong indication that that will be his first fight at 155. Like I still think it's very possible. But Ilya said himself many times he doesn't expect to fight for the title right away

and that he said he want to fight Charles Olivaire. He said he said other names. But even if that's the case, I'm super excited to see Aaliyah fight like Charles Oliver or something like that. Though technically, by the time Aaliyah fights again, he won't be a champion. But that title will go to the undisputed title will go to Okonovsky or Diego Lopez. As soon as that cage door closes on that fight, the title is vacated. So I'm kind of cheating using Tuporia, but I would have him on my list.

I didn't know how to react to Tepori in this game. Yeah. Because I think moving the lightweight is stupid and I hate it. He would be number two on my list if he was just defending his belt. Because there are multiple featherweight matchups, I very much would like to see it from him. I don't care about the Volkrie match. Like, fine. Whatever it's happening, it would happen.

But I was super one to see him by Diego Lopez and Officer Ravlev. And now that won't happen because the sport got dumb. So maybe he's left him off. Maybe he'll come back. Goddummer. God, it doesn't so good, man. Let's say,

so good. Let's stay with the positive vibes then. And talk about what champions we are at least looking for to see you fight because according to Twitter and Instagram, it's a long list. This might be a top six list, but we're going to keep it to three. Mike, I'll start with you this time. Mike, who are the three champions respectfully? You're not like super jazzed about seeing fight anytime soon.

I don't know, man. You love them all. You love the mall. You don't want to make a list. It's what you're saying. All the champions are great. I would say Belal Muhammad right now, but like it's not fair to him because there are fights I want to see him fight Shafkarukh Madov.

I just, that's the one. And maybe I'm somewhat intrigued by Joaquin Buckley to some extent. J.D.M, I just don't think he's ready for this fight. I think this is too soon for him. I would like to see J.D.M. get another win before getting the shot. And I kind of feel like Bilal is going to beat him like pretty easily. No disrespect.

Like I do think JDM at some point over the next couple of years could be a world champion. I just don't think it's now. I'll say Magamette Ankolaev right now because we're just going to get a rematch with Alex Pereira, but maybe we get Yuri and then that might change my tune a little bit. And then I'll say, I'll say Pantosia, but like not because I don't love watching him fight. It's just, again, we're going into the Kai Kar-Franz fight and look, this is MMA and anything can happen. I don't think anything can happen with Pantosia. He doesn't really slip on banana peels. And if he does, even if he slips someone against Kai-Car-France,

I still think he wins. Cop is interesting. It's definitely a more interesting matchup. But after that, there's just nothing for the man. So I'll say him just because I know that another fight, And even if he fights Kai Kar-France, there is a very real world that when he wins, he's just going to go up and fight Marab. I mean, that's what he seems to want at some point. Marab and his team want that at some point as well. And again, we're setting ourselves for another, hey, I'm going to go try to fight for two belts thing, and I'm going to be annoyed by it.

So I will say Pantosha, only for that reason, because he is, in my opinion, one of the five best fighters in the world. and I love watching him fight. It's just the aftermath of what happens after his next fight that I'm concerned with. Mike, what was this? I said, that was Muhammad, Pentosia. And I said, Ekelaif.

Okay. But, again, he'll be, yeah. It's tough to be mean here. I know, I know. There's just nothing super interesting right now outside of, like, the positive ones. And again, we're not really faulting the fighters. This is kind of a situation where it is.

Again, look at the reaction to Ankelai of winning the title on Saturday. It should have been like a pretty cool moment given how hard he had to get, you know, to work there. I mean, this was one of the flattest. And beating such a popular champion, too. Like, you know, you think you'd get some of the cachet did not work there at all. No transference of aura, though big anch time is,

it's catching on, all right? I heard some youngans saying it the other day down by the ice cream shop, you know? Like, it's ready. People really like a big time. Jed is Ankeliov, make your list, unfortunately. Where are we with Hank? Is he on your top three of the bottom, as it were?

No, he's not. I think, like, most people making these lists would have that. I talked about it before 313. He's not actually boring. He does not every fight's a winner. And certainly the 313 wasn't, like, the best. But mostly Yonkovs, like, a decent watch. And they're just fun, interesting matchups.

Like, Yeri, that'll be fun as hell. If Carlos Oldberg meets Jan Blyovic coming up here, fun as hell. Like they're, even the Pereira rematch, like, not stoked after what we just watched, but if Pereira comes with something a little more fun than he brought to the table this time, probably more fun. So, Ankaa is not there. This was a really easy list. And some of it's intentionally mean because it is how it feel.

I will acknowledge that, like, I'm generally interested in watching almost all of these fighters anyway because they are the, you know, the champions. And they at least have something about it. But number one with the bullet, and this is not remotely close to me. Like, he is head and shoulders worse than anyone else, which I find deeply funny considering the props he got in the other end of things. It's Marab Velaishvili. I don't. Morab is undeniably impressive, like just incredibly impressive to watch.

Deeply uninteresting. Like, he is just not a fun fighter to watch compete. There is no risk of him. him just falling into a finish. Like you're just going to be watching him to hack MMA for 25 minutes. And that I say that with the utmost respect because nobody, like, he has a skill that is genuinely better than anyone in the history of this sport. And he leverages that in a way that is effective.

But effective, like, I don't have to like watching it. And you add in that I'm now going to have to watch it against dudes I've already watched against. It's like, if I got to skip a title reign, it would easily be more up. I do not need to see him 49, 46, Sean O'Malley, and Peoria on again. Like, I'm good. That is, that is 25 minutes of my life. I'd rather spend doing something else.

He is by far the number one of people I'm just least interested in, which again, I'm not, this is not to say that he is not good. He's exceptional. Just don't care to watch it. Number two, it's also low-hanging fruit, similar thing, Balaah Muhammad. Balal does at least sort of sometimes luck his way into a finish and being entertaining, but the broad bend of his career is just not a super exciting dude. shares a number of stylistic similarities to Marab.

I don't care at all about this J.D.M fight. It's fine. It's a reasonable fight given the circumstances, but Basel Hoff is just, took JDM down a whole bunch of Ballal's just going to drown him. So like whatever. And then assuming the Shavkaa fight does happen, I'm interested in Shavkot. But if there's one person who can make Shavkot be boring, it's Ball. So like I just, I'm good.

The faster he's no longer champion, the more fun, I think, Walter Waite will be. But again, this is not to take away from his incredible achievements and abilities, which are many. And then number three, it's Giuliana Pena, because one of the, Bannon Wade is a disaster zone. And yes, the Kayla Harrison fight is like a sensibly going to happen and we're probably sort of interested in that. But if Pena wins and I just couldn't care less about whoever she fights next, because

it was Bannamweight, like Pinnington rematch, drag Nunes back out, I guess. It's just all terrible. There's nobody worthwhile at Bannamweight that's other than Kayla Harrison. So Pena, by default, I am just cool. would not be less interested in watching your fight. It's got kind of a... You know, it just didn't get as nasty as I thought, but it's still kind of a downary.

I almost feel bad that. If anyone has angry responses to this, any fighters out there, you can blame me. I did. I came up with this question. It is... Blame yourself. Maraub, be interesting.

Morab vallis really be interesting challenge. Well, impossible. Can't be. Can't be the best in the world. Can't be interesting. Casey, you train UFC. Do you want to participate in this? discussion.

I love watching Marab fight. Okay. But I get it. I get it though. I get it. I do. I do. I do.

I think what he does is so incredibly tough. But, and I say, and I'm not trying to do it, I train thing, but I'm going to say this, I really appreciate it because of my training. And because of what I see him do, it's just impossible. I've never seen anyone. come close to that in the gym and in the actual cage nothing and that's why i think it's really hard to paint a house i don't want to spend 25 minutes watching some dude go on this shit i mean if we're paying money to watch a guy paying the house then i'm going to watch that guy paying

the house i don't know like this like we're not this is to win the fight and this is like we're watching championship fights we're seeing you yeah if we just want to see knockouts i get he's not the most exciting fighter but the most exciting fighter is very rarely the question isn't who's the best it's who Who are you the most interested in? Yeah, you'd watch it. No, no, no, exciting and who the most interested in is different. Like, that, I don't know, like, there's a bunch of, like, random lightweights that just know throw hammer and tongs, and we always know it's going to be exciting, but doesn't mean,

doesn't mean I'm interested or what's the best. So, I know. The question specifically does not say exciting. We should say, and we did discuss, negotiate this before we were trying to figure out, like, we don't actually want to say exciting because it would be too obvious. I think, yeah, I think the choice would be pretty obvious if we were just saying exciting. Gagee bite anything. There has to be.

I just refuse to believe that anyone loves to watch Marob. You can appreciate it, but nobody loves it. Nobody's like there's nothing I'd rather be doing right now than watching Marob shoot 50 takedowns on Sean O'alley. Well, believe it. Believe it, sister. Believe it, sister. You're looking at him right now over the via the magic of the internet.

You're looking at him right now. I don't believe. Believe it. I don't know. I'm talking about champion. I don't know. I don't know. I don't tell you.

I've always been big Corey Sanning it by far is my favorite band-a-way to watch, but I understand he's not the best right now. The best is Marab. And if they fought each other, I'll pick Marab over Corey. I don't know. I have to tell you. Casey, do you want to make a list of, or do you, of, you know, 11 UFC champions, all thrillers, all exciting options?

So really, I'm saying the least intrigued, the least intrigued you are. At one and two, tied at one and two, is Julia Pena. Wow. Two spots. Two division, two division, two spot champion. Okay. Part of it's, part of it's issues who she is. Part of it is the division itself. So, yes, one and two. And number three would be, uh, Bala. Just be, uh, be, uh, taking it in the teeth. Oh, all three lists. I, I, I'll put them on my list. And I, I thought, because I have to pick, I have to pick somebody. And I, and I, I'm kind of, um, being a little hypocritical by going, I love Marab, but I don't really care too much for Blah.

Your words. Yeah, my words. I can't, yeah, I can only take so many vegetables. I like that. No, I can. And Mara is my, Maraub is my vegetables, but I enjoy good, you know, kale salad every once in a while. And again, we can't stress enough how good these fighters are that we've mentioned on either list. I'm not going to redo the list because we mentioned a lot of similar names for the least intriguing.

But this is the state of, like, so I feel like we've had the conversation. in a pretty polite, diplomatic way as much as you can. I can tell the people, the UFC, the match, the official, and everything, these conversations are happening among fans in far less civil ways. And again, that is not fair to the fighters. I'm not blaming the fighters for whatever their fighting style happens to be, whatever their promotional style happens to be. They have done their job to make it to the top and be a champion and make champion money.

That is fantastic. We love them for it. But there is some sort of magic missing, some sort of secret sauce missing. with this current crop of champions. And I don't think that that's all that arguable. Even for the reasons Casey mentioned, like, I agree. I am fascinated by how some of these fighters perform, how some of these champions are able to excel.

Like, it is fascinating to think about in the moment. It is fascinating to watch. But from a pure entertainment standpoint, from a casual, more important, not just entertainment. Because you can have entertaining fights, by the way, that don't have registered with the mainstream at all. That is the big issue here is as great as the U.S. finances are,

it does it does it is disappointing that there is this lack of buzz right there is this lack of critical acclaim as it were I suppose because I think even people who watch the UFC now regularly are not like jumping head over heels saying like oh my gosh every week it's a banger it's like mike said it's over way to being in the show it's become routine it's become accepted it's like watching a American football game every week which is great it's great but you're not I don't think you go you know whatever all 17 weeks of the NFL though the games are great importance I don't think you go like, oh, every week was a banger. No, at some point you're a fan and you're just watching because it's what you're there to do.

So the UFC has reached that point. For better or worse, the UFC has reached that point. And again, you cannot blame the champions for it, but that is the state we are in. And based on the first two peer reviews we've had, I don't know if we're getting a refresher at the top anytime soon. Because I think a lot of us thought that Umar had a chance. A lot of us thought Tatiana had a chance. and I say us. I'm on the broader fan base as well.

And these champions are already thrown new thing. I'm sure there's a Jack Del and Madelena contingent out there. I'm kind of with Jed. I just don't think it's, it's, it's, how you can do it yet? Or Mike, was it you that was saying JDM isn't ready yet? I think he's, yeah. Yeah. And JDM is super exciting, but I think we agree.

This might be another and still. So I don't know, guys. Maybe these championship reigns will reach the point where there are three or four or five I tell the defense is in and we can appreciate them more. But in the early embryonic stage, there's a lot of these guys and gals title runs. It's a tough go. It's a tough go.

So, sorry, I tell everyone, we're ending on a little bit of a bummer, but we can only, we can only, you know, reflect the voice of the people, right? So thank you, Mike. Thank you, Jed. Thank you, Casey, for joining me on this episode of The Ranking Show. Hopefully we can do one again soon. But like I said, the beginning, If there's no rankings news to discuss,

you're not going to see any ranking. There's not going to be a lot to talk about. But we'll keep an update with shakeups, pound for pound. Usually there's always something to write about. And we'll see, yeah, we'll see when we do a ranking show again. But hopefully, guys, we've got all the bad juju out there. You know, we've talked about it. And now nothing but great times ahead.

UFC 315, International Fight Week after that. John Joe's going to fight Tom Aspinall. It's many great times. The UFC Des Moines is going to annihilate Gate Records. It's a great time for all. So for all of my great fellow panelists, Maffine.com, this is Alexander Kaylee. Take care, everybody. Love you all.

You're okay. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.