MMA Fighting - Rankings Show | Who Is More Likely To Become UFC Champ — Tom Aspinall or Kai Kara-France?

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

Did we see a trio of future UFC champions emerge in March? How high can Tom Aspinall, Kai Kara-France and Manon Fiorot go in their respective divisions? And has the legendary Demetrious Johnson really fallen out of the pound-for-pound rankings? The MMA Fighting Rankings Show returns after a busy March to debate the biggest winners and losers of the past four weeks, map out what’s ahead for the UFC’s convoluted heavyweight championship picture. Then, co-hosts Alexander K. Lee and Jed Meshew are joined by MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck and Damon Martin to dive deep into the sport’s top storylines and do the math on how many new undisputed champions we might soon see with titleholders Alexander Volkanovski, Aljamain Sterling, Charles Oliveira, Rose Namajunas, Glover Teixeira, and Valentina Shevchenko set to defend in the coming months. Follow Alexander K. Lee @AlexanderKLee Follow Jed Meshew @JedKMeshew Follow Damon Martin @DamonMartin Follow Mike Heck @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, yes. You guys might know right away. This isn't the usual voice that leads off the MMA ranking show they're listening to right now. This is one of them. This is one of your hosts, regular hosts, Alexander K. Lee. But unfortunately, Shaheen could not be with us for this recording. He will, I'm sure, rejoins again for the May episode.

So don't worry. It's not just me. I brought along another one of your favorite voices from the NMA fighting team. So kind to join us. As my host for this first segment of our show that we usually do guys, give a little rundown, and we'll bring it a panel later. But right now, I'll give a round of a hearty round of applause for Jedmishu. A.K. I'm so happy you brought me on here because I think this entire show has really been held down by Sean Alshadis.

Oh, dear. Devotion to order and structure. and I'm not here for that. I'm here for chaos. So let's let's have some, let's get chaotic, AK. Okay, well, we can save that more so for the second part of the show, Jed. But again, whatever you decide to do, I brought you in. I don't bring in, you know, you don't bring in a demolitions expert to a show and then tell them,

and then tell them, hey, you know, take it easy with the explosions, take it easy with the dynamite, you know, a little less time. No, you're the expert. I'm a peacock. You got to let me fly. That's a much better analogy. But right now, Jed, we're just kind of going over some of the big changes we had in the MMA fighting global rankings in March, which were plenty. We actually had plenty and also big moves. So many notable names.

The first one that probably comes to people's mind right away if we asked who do you think made the biggest move in the rankings. Of course, Tom Aspinall, Tom Aspinall, incredible finish of Alexander Volkov at UFC London, which we were calling maybe one of the best fight nights of all time, very likely the best UFC fight card that we saw this year. And he capped off a stunning show where we had great performances from Mauna McCann and Patty Pimble and all these other names. So very well done all around. And he's really kind of carried that buzz into people saying now he may be a legitimate heavyweight. Well, he is, but may actually have a chance to win the heavyweight world title sooner rather than later. He jumps three spots in our rankings up to number, should I have this repaired, up to number seven. He is number seven.

So yeah, he was, he was a bit behind last month. I say just three spots. I'm sorry, he jumped five spots. He had, he had been originally, I think, in the top 10 in our rankings. He'd kind of, he had been knocked down because Tai Tui Vasa had made a jump before. So some names had passed him. But with this win, again, he's back in the top 10, the highest ranking we've had him in since we started doing this, number seven. And a lot of people saying he's even closer to a title shot than Tui Vasa is.

So, Jed, before I get to some of the other big jump, I did want to ask you. Tom Aspinall, it's a complicated heavyweight telepicture we have now, of course, Francis Gano out with a knee injury, almost for certain we will have an interim title soon. We've got Stevie Meochich, John Jones, Cidiel Gan in the mix. Like we just mentioned, Taituifasa, who knows, could sneak in there somewhere. You are Nick Maynard slash Jane of White combined into one. Let's say you have a magic wand.

You have a magic wand. And almost everything, anything's possible except let's leave Nganu out of it. We know for sure he will not be coming back. anytime soon. But you can keep Stephen Milich, your favorite fighter. You can keep him happy and healthy and pay him the money he deserves. John Jones, you can keep him off the police blotter. What does, if you're, if you're, you can do any, anything, laid out any way you want?

What does the heavyweight championship picture look like for the next six, seven months? I'm so glad you asked me this question because I'm going to give you the answer that no one else would. And I know that no one will agree and I just don't care. I understand the idea to have Steve A and John Jones fight for the heavyweight title. But I don't like it. You know why I don't like it? Because neither man has a relevant heavyweight win to their names. John Jones is the light heavyweight champion forever.

He hasn't been that for a long time. He hasn't fought for a long time. And we're just being honest, he didn't even look good the last few times he fought as the light heavyweight champion. I don't really have a fundamental issue, though, still with him jumping. jumping up and challenging for a title, given what he has accomplished. But Stipe, man, you said that, you know, bit tongue in cheek that he's my favorite fighter because I bag on him a lot. I am willing to acknowledge that Stipe Vyajic is a very good fighter.

But I need everyone else to acknowledge that he doesn't have a relevant heavyweight win to his name other than Francis Ngano, who won that rematch much more convincingly than Steve A won their first fight. Steve A obviously won their first fight, but he couldn't finish a gassed out in Ghanu for four and a half rounds. And Ghanu buried him in two. Like that's, it's still a way and it still counts.

But that's the one winnie has on a resume over a still current top heavyweight. I think JDS might still be hanging on to our rankings, which is really more than die. of of set division than it is of anything grander than that somehow number 15 number 15 yeah so he's he has overeem and and jd s a 12 and 15 in our rankings uh and then obviously the engado win but as i said ingano already won that i want stepe to have to fight somebody like he has spent so much of his time fighting daniel cormier who's retired and sitting out and waiting for the title fight that he deserves and I'm not going to fight until I get it.

Like, just go out of scrap, man. You are better than most of these people. You will easily put Tai Tuivasa down. And I just wanted him to do it before he gets another title fight because he did some good things previously in his career. If I have the power of the pin, I am booking the interim title fight between Tai Tuivasa and Tom Aspinall. And no one can stop me because MMA is supposed to be fun.

and there's no more fun fight than that one. You put it in England. Look, Tommy Aspinall is called for that fight. Tai Tuivasa would take it if it's for an interim belt. Stepe's still in the picture because he's steeped. John Jones is hanging around. But just give me that fight and make those two dudes fight some people. Make John Jones show that he is actually committed to fighting a heavyweight because I'm still not convinced.

He hasn't really shown any inkling other than hidden the weight room, which could be for a lot of reasons. and make Sipay earn it. Make Sipay fights your God. Okay. I was to say who would I say, how would you, let's say take those four names? Who would you match up with who? Taking Blades, Jones, Miochich, and someone else who, you just mentioned, I forgot. Gone.

I mean, if Jones is going to fight, I guess I would be okay with Jones slotting in as an interim title contestant as well, just because. Whoa, you just said Aspinall. Hold on. That's the one I want. Yeah. This is you. This is you.

This is you. This is you making it. This is you making it. Yeah. I don't believe that John Jones is going to fight is the thing. I just don't think. I'm saying in this scenario, you can make him fight. If I can make him fight, oh, I don't know, man.

If I can make him fight, I think I just make him fight Stepe, but that's not for the interim title. And then Blades fight's gone. Blades fights gone. And that seems fine. Interesting. I'm in with Stepe fighting anybody who's relevant in the heavyweight division, frankly, because he just hasn't done it. it and I'd like to see if he's still very good

of fighting because I have no idea. I think he is, but he has not beaten someone not named Daniel Cormier in like four years. And it'd be pretty cool if he actually had to do that. Aspinall and Tuivasa. Of all the heavyweights are available. It is the most fun. I agree.

It's the most fun one. That's what I'm picking. Your statement clear for our listeners. If you had your pick of any of those available names, they would be your pick for an interim, for an interim heavyweight title fight. Yeah, because those guys are the most fun people to be. the UFC champion. How in the front of a world is it

when Ty Tuvasso or Tommy Espinole? It's the interim champion of the world. And then they're probably the real champion. Francis probably isn't coming back. But if he does, super fun fights there. Fun all around. That's what I'm for.

I hope that'll be a theme of this show. The other, now I guess that's Aspenol on paper. People would say it was the biggest change. We had one, arguably two, even more massive changes in their divisions. Of course, Menon Firoreau getting kind of lucky here, and she was originally supposed to fight. Was she the one who was supposed to fight? Jessica I?

Am I? Something like that, right? And then she ended up getting the even higher ranked Jennifer Maya instead and looked good, three-round decision, tough fight for sure, but look good. And with that win, she jumps nine spots. Menon Feroe jumps nine spots in our ranking. Now, people could say she jumped so much because maybe we had under-ranked her. that's certainly a case to be made. But yeah, she is now number, she is now number six,

just outside the top five behind Lauren Murphy. And I bet there's a lot of people, a lot of fans who would rank her above Lauren Murphy. So she's theoretically a top five flyweight after a victory like that. I ever ranked above Lauren Murphy. There you go. So how high is she in your rankings, Jen? I think, let me pull it up real fast.

Yeah, pull up for yours. I have her at seven, but that's also because I have Julianna Vasquez and Liz Camush above her. We all ranked her pretty high. I'll take a quick look, too, and I just want to see, I just want to see where, what's the lowest? The lowest is 10th. I see that she's ranked the highest as high as four. We have someone ranking at 4. Yes.

I don't want to name names right now, but I will say she's as high as 4, as low as 10, and then everyone else kind of in the six seven six to eight range so either way a massive performance for a very good bit of luck for her to get that opponent change and uh one of the biggest jumps again we've had since we started doing the ranking so plus nine also also also also also also in her division making a big jump alexa grasso and not as surprising a lot of people i think when they saw the wood matchup expected to win that and saw this as a rankings booster fight for her sure enough she did uh and now she is also i think just she's gonna she's gonna just outside i believe our top 10 should be at 11 a lot of people can make a case for her being a top 10 flyweight, I certainly wouldn't argue it. And then in the men's flyweight division, my goodness, Kai Kar-France turning everything upside down with a very impressive win in an awesome fight against Ascar Ascrov. He jumps up five spots, and I can't believe it. He is now tied in our rankings with the greatest flyweight of all time, Demetius Johnson,

tied for fourth place. I don't know if anyone would have predicted that at the beginning of this year. There we are. So some really, really massive changes. Some unfortunate drops that I do want to read. Oh, sorry, I should say who entered first. Sergei Pavlich entering heavyweight at, he's tied for the 15th shot. He's one of those sleepers at every way.

We don't talk about this guy at all. But, man, he's coming up. He's a physical specimen. He's got knockout power. He's looking good. He took out Berkema. If he can stay fighting, that's been the issue. Yes.

If he can stay active, he's going to be a top tank guy. Inactivity. Number entering at 12 at Bantway, Song Yadong, of course, with a win over Marmarais. And look who it is. John Linnaker coming at number 14 after a very impressive win over Viviano Fernandez. Yes, he is ranked at 135 pounds. It's a one championship band weight division is a little bit different, but either way,

he is now back in the rankings as a bantan weight. So there you go. John Linnaker, never gone, really. And I want to close here. We've got to say happy trails to some people. And I do want to have a quick question of this. We have Edson-Barbosa leaving the featherweight rankings, Malamarais, who I just mentioned leaving Bantuweight and Joanne Wood leaving the flyweight. So these are all veteran names.

They're all names that have kind of been on the decline for a while. It's not a big surprise to see them leave. I'm just going to ask you quick, Jed. Any chance you see any of these names ranked again, Edson-Barbosa, Malamette, Joanne Wood, top 15 at the very least, do they have a chance? John Wood's the only one who maybe has a chance because the divisions are still fairly open. John Wood was also the only one of those that I had ranked coming into this month. I had dropped both Barbosa and Marias. Right.

And I think I had Wood at like 13 or something last month. Like I already had her barely hanging on. So yeah, it's a time. Time wins everything. You know, his father time is undefeated, much like my rankings, which can we just say, you talk. No, we can't. No, we can't.

And his big jump. But he didn't make a big jump for me. He moved like two places because I was on board with the Tommy Aspirin all train long before the rest of you. Do you want to tell people the exact movement on your thing? May I? You had him seven, seven last month. So yes, much harder than the rest of us. And now jumps in the top five.

Up to five. Just behind Blades, gone, meochich and gone. I do. I also, we don't need to talk about it. but I just want to say, similarly, I was big on Arnold Allen. I continued to advance Arnold Allen. The rest of you guys are still lagging a little behind. So everybody else needs to hear this.

You're calling your shot. Recognize, you've all figured out to get on the Rinead de Ritter train, which is great. I love that everyone's on that train. Did I? Oh, I did. Ah. But the Arnold Allen train, that's the next one. Chew-choo, get involved, guys.

We all five foot featherweight. You have him so high. You have him fifth. Top five, that way, baby. That is incredible. Hey, look, what is he now? Nine and O in the UFC? I don't know what the, it's hard to argue against them.

I'm not even going to call you out for it. Nine and O in the UFC is winning. Damn impressive. And the kind of, like you said with Pavlovich, I mean, he just, if he had just been more active over the last couple of years, who knows, he might be top five in the UFC's rankings, right? So anyway, and well, one more name, and I want to tease it for later. We were going to have some pound for pound talk. Colby Compton enters the top 20.

It's kind of surprising he wasn't actually in there. Oh. And takes the spot of one, Mr. Demetius Johnson. So, Jed, I don't want to talk about that now. I'm going to bring in our esteemed guests in a second of course, our good pals, Michael Heck and Damon Martin for the second second in our show. We're going to touch upon a few topics, but I assure you, I assure you loyal listeners, you haven't heard the last of this Demetri's John's talk. We are going to talk about the mightiest of Mousses and him being out of the pound for pound rankings and what this could mean for him

because it's really going to hurt him emotionally when he sees this. But what his current career arc is and his you know his his activity means going forward so thank you guys we're going to take a little break here and then we will be right back with mike and damon thank you chad for helping me just do a little recap there of what was like a pretty busy uh march i mean as we expected it to be we knew we we knew it would be a busy march we had a we had quite a few ranked fights especially at flyweight both the men's women's division so uh exciting stuff i think a pretty exciting start to the show now it only gets better from here as you know uh as she know he says like we again i wish shaheen here. But thankfully, we have our usual

members of the brain trust available, Jed, not just me and yourself, but the esteemed Mike Heck, the equally esteemed, David Martin. Boyce, thank you for joining us, as always, for the second part of the show. We have a little fun discussion. Oh, yeah. Always ready to talk rankings

and find out who I'm going to piss off this week. Yeah, Damon was actually kind of nice to me the last time we're on this together. When the first couple, he just, I mean, my self-esteem was I mean, that was a flyweight and self-esteem. That's for darn sure. But happy to be back.

Hopefully we can keep those same positive vibes moving for. I don't think I did anything too egregious this month. So I think we're okay. No one's going to go Will Smith on this podcast. We are. All right. Get your Will Smith references in now. All right.

They'll be stale by now. Hopefully it'll be stalled by next month. We'll never talk about this again. But all right. Now, guys, I don't think there's anything we're going to talk about today. That should be too contentious. I'm not a Shaheen Al Shadi. I'm not a disturber.

I'm not a line stepper. I want friendly, cordial conversation. You know, I don't like debates. I don't like arguments. I like everyone just agreeing. And I think I'm sure we'll agree on a lot of these topics. Again, feel free to bring up, we're all looking at the rankings right now. Feel free to bring up each other's rankings if you need to.

But again, this is not an airing of grievances, guys. Let's try and keep that annual by annual. The first topic, and we talked about these guys, a little bit again at the beginning because of the huge jumps they made in the rankings but they didn't just move up the rankings these are fighters who are now legitimately in the range of a title shot so there's a lot of people to discuss here but let's just kind of focus on three or four names that that competed recently because I want to know of some of the big movers in March guys who do you

think is most likely to become champion now this could mean because you think they can beat the current champion because again there's a murky title situation where a title end up being vacated whatever whatever the scenario is that you need to do the math in your head to make an argument for someone. We're going to primarily talk about, of course, Tom Aspinall, obviously the biggest breakout star of March.

And then, of course, we want to talk about Menon Firol and Alexa Grasso, who made huge jumps in the Flyweight Division, and Kai Kar-France, who, I mean, depending who you ask, according to maybe Davidson Figurato, whoever's tweeting for him,

might be the new number one contender at 125 pounds. So I don't know how you guys want to do. This will do a roundtable. Jed, they've heard it up from us for a bit. Let's go to, let's go to Mike first. We can break us some other names later, but of Aspinall, Menon, Alexa Grasso, and Cai Car, France, who's most likely to become champ? And how?

What is this scenario? So we can, I think we can all agree that we can eliminate Fioro and Grasso from this conversation, only because you put a disclaimer in there, any scenario that doesn't involve Valentina leaving the division or retiring. so we can eliminate both of them, even though they're fine fighters. You can come up with one for sure. I'm just like, that was like more of a challenge. If anyone has a scenario where you think they beat Valentina anytime soon, I'm all ears.

But I'm just doing most of us. So it's a two horse race here. Valentina get attacked by like a wild animal on her way to the cage. She'll still beat the animal eventually and come back and fight. So, I mean. Very likely. I would take Valentina Shavchenko over like a small bear. so, like maybe not like a grizzly, like a full-grown grizzly, but like a little baby black bear,

Shevchenko all day. I don't want to think about, I don't want to think about Valentina Strachco took out a little bit. Baby bears are adorable. The bear that got shot in the butt in the movie The Great Outdoors, I pick Valentina Shepchenko minus 450 against that bear. But that's besides the point. The new assassin baby, according to you guys, should take that little bear. Yes.

So let leads you with Aspinall in Caicar, France. And truth be told, I think both of those guys are going to be champions. I feel confident that they would both be champions. Kai Kar-Franis performance. I set out on to the next one. When he does fight for the belt, I am picking him to win against either Davis and Figurato or Brandon Moreno. I just feel like it's his time. I feel like Ascaroff is probably the toughest fight in this division right now.

Really difficult challenge to beat that guy. He does everything very well, the wrestling, all that stuff. Yeah, he does tend to fade down the stretch. But Ascaroff is a tough out for anybody. and I believe Kai Kar-France and he said that nobody wanted to fight him and he went out there, said yes, even though he was probably the number one contender,

even though coming out the Cody Garbert, when you could have arguably thrown him into a title fight right there and then, I'm still going to go to Tommy Aspinall here. I think Tommy Aspinall will get there first. I think he will become champion first. I think Carr-France is going to get there, but I think he's going to have to wait a little while because this fight between Moreno and Figurato's

going to happen. I have a feeling it's going to be a war. One of those vites that's going to take both guys out of action for a little while. And I think with this heavyweight division being so clustered right now, I think there's, you can make a scenario, you can make the case that somehow Tommy Aspinall will get an opportunity maybe sooner than he should just by those circumstances. So I'm going to go with Aspinall. I just think his ceiling's a little bit higher. But I do believe Cairo France will be the will be a champion as well. Okay. Oh, but so if you had to pick one.

I'm picking Aspenol number one. You're going Aspenol. Not far behind number two, but I think both will be champions within the next 18 months. Wow. Aspinall wise, I'm sorry, I know you kind of broke it down there. But so you're saying a scenario where this is a scenario where we beat Francis and Ganu or we're assuming France and Ganu might be out of the picture by the time Aspinol gets a tell a shot.

Or we're talking vacant title, interim title as well, possibly. Yeah, either way. Because I mean, the interim, like, if there's an interim title fight in July, let's just say they, all good things happen in steep A fights, John Jones, and we have some sort of victor there. Maybe they have another title fight after that, and that belt has to be defended well, and Ganu continues to move on. And maybe Aspinall slides into that spot. I think they go a tie to Ivasa, but maybe they match Aspinall and Tai Tai Tai Tai Vasa up. And I would pick Tommy Aspinall to beat Tai Tai Tai Vasa. So I think Aspenol will get there first. I think you will have first crack, whether it's interim or the undisputed. I wish his role, they would slow him down a little bit. Maybe just give him one more fight in the UK against Derek Lewis or anybody else in the top 10. Just give him a win. Let him build that experience up a little more.

But I honestly, I think he's the real deal. And I think when he gets his chance, he's going to be a champion. So 18 months, both guys will win titles. But I think Aspinall, I favor him more than Cara France, if that makes sense. Wow. Man, Tom Aswell really broke out. Like, we really had him. There was a little bit, I would say about a year ago, or maybe a little less than a year ago, that cluster of him, obviously Chris Dachas, you know, before he had the couple losses.

And a tie two of Oz was kind of in there, Sergei Spivaxe in there. And then I guess we should also be mentioning Sergei Pavlovich, who also just got a big win. It's crazy. The Aspenov has like really, like, I think head and shoulders above them. I can see Jed kind of chomping at the bit here. But again, Jed, I know we talked about Aspinall earlier. So, Damon, do you agree with Mike? Do you think that it's got to be Aspinol?

No, I think Mike took some crazy pills this morning when he did a new podcast. So, listen, I like Tom Aspinall. He's a solid prospect. The problem is, you know, yes, beating Alexander Volkov is impressive. I'm not going to take that away from him. But thus far, you know, Tom Aspinall has been going out there and taking guys down, now grappling them as a British heavyweight. Now, no offense to British heavyweights, but British fighters are not known for having the best wrestling.

If he can go out there and do that against Curtis Blades or Steve and Miotich, maybe I'll become a bigger believer. but the reality is there are more unknowns with Tom Aspinall. He hasn't fought the best guys in the division. You know, Alexander Volkov is a good fighter. Don't get me wrong, but Alexander Volkov has never been a top five, top six heavyweight. He's always kind of been the gatekeeper to that top five or top six.

If he goes out there and does that to Stipe, he goes out there and does that to Curtis Blades, he goes out there and does that to Cyril Gahn, sure, I'll be a believer. But I'm not a believer yet because his biggest win is over Alexander Volkov, and Volkov has never been quite that guy. And also, heavyweight is so volatile, it's so hard to predict because, you know, as you said, year, year and a half ago, Chris Dawkins looked like a pretty solid prospect. And now he's lost two in a row and everyone's saying he's a light heavyweight. So it doesn't take much for you to fall out of favor at heavyweight. One big punch from Derek Lewis and Tom Aspinall is suddenly thinking he's, you know, from Finland. He's no longer from Britain. I like the Tai Tui Vasa matchup for him because I'm also not completely sold on Taitoie Vasa. So I think that's a fight he could get. and win. But I don't like him to beat a guy like Curtis Blades. I think that is 100% the worst possible matchup for him in this division.

And if Francis comes back, I don't know that anybody beats Francis right now. So I just think the odds are against Aspinall. With Kikara-France, you know, he's in a, when I say he's in a less volatile division in terms of, you know, unpredictability. You know, heavyweight is so unpredictable in terms of like, again, one bad shot. you're gone. You don't typically have that at flyweight, and he's already right there. I mean, he may end up getting the title shot in July if they can't come to terms with figure eight O to fight Moreno a fourth time.

So there's a chance he gets in there. And I agree, I think, you know, Asker, Ascroft, you know, could be arguably the toughest matchup for anybody at Flyweight, you know, champion or not. And he went out there and beat him. Very close decision. You could argue that Ascarov got it, but either way, it was a very good fight. And Kai Kar-France pulled off a big one. he may get the next title shot he may get the next one after that but i i believe he has a better

chance of beating a brandon merino or beating a devison figurato than i would say aspirin has a chance of beating francis and gano right now beating stephen miotches beating john jones beating curtis blades i would not pick him to win any of those fights uh but i would say kai kara france has a chance to beat figurato he does have a chance to be brandon merino uh he does have a chance to beat anybody in that division so uh i think it's kai kai kara france has a chance to beat anybody in that division so i think it's Kai Kar, France. I'm not sitting here saying I'm ultra confident that he's going to do it. But if anyone's going to do it,

I think it's him. And just to throw this out there, listen, I think Mano, it looked great. I love Alexa Grasso, a flyweight. Unless Valentina Chautenka gets hit by a bus tomorrow, she's not getting beat. I mean, she's just not. No one's beating. I'm sorry. She's no one's

being a bus. Yeah, now we're talking a bus size. She's splitting the bus in half, dude. Like a double-decker, like a double-decker, like England, you know, sightseeing bus maybe maybe then you get like that or like you know if if if sandor bullock is driving the bus maybe but uh otherwise otherwise no you're not beating chuk chinko and so i'm kind of going kai car france because he's the closest and i actually think he has a chance to beat the current guys there i like tom aspinall i just i write if you're if you're sitting around right now saying pick again

you know pick him fighting curtis blades i don't see him beating curt's blades i don't see him beating Steepie. I don't see him beating John Jones. I don't see him beating in Gano. And I think even Cyril Gond would be a tough matchup. So I'm just not sold on Aspinall yet. I like that. So Aspinol, I think we all agree, has sort of a pretty clear path to the title. I guess Carrier France is now, too, actually after that win. But I seem to be hearing that we think Kyker France has a better chance against the top of the division. Mike, you were accused of being on recreational drugs by Damon just now. So quick rebuttal before I go to Jed. I just think we're underrating Aspenov's performance against Volkov because nobody does that.

Nobody does what he did to Volkov. People beat Volkov, but they don't go out there and run through the man in two minutes. That's what he did. He made that look easy. He made it look like Volkov was Jay Freakin' Ellis out there, who was 17, 113. Like you just took him down and beat him like it was nothing. Like that was super impressive. Nobody does that.

You might get one over. Even Curtis Blades, as good as Curtis Blades's look. It wasn't all that long ago that Curtis Blades beat him via unanimous decision. He can go out there and crush him in two minutes like Tommy Aspinall did. And Tom didn't break a sweat. And he made it look super easy. And it's not like a, and it wasn't a flash knockout. It was pure dominance.

He took him down, did whatever he wanted to do and beat him. So I think, I think Damon might be underrating Aspinall's performance. I agree with you. I would like to see the UFC slow roll him a little bit. I'd like to see him get another couple of wins before he fights for the title. But I have a feeling that. if he gets another UK rub, which, like Jed has said in the past, Tommy Aspedal's next fight needs to be in the UK.

The guy needs to fight in front of a home crowd. I don't care if he fights Tuivasa. I don't care if he fights Derek Lewis. I don't care if he fights Volkov again. It doesn't matter. Just get him in there. Let him get some reps in. Let him get the star pop.

And then we'll see what happens. I'd like to see him like 18 months get a title shot, maybe two years. But I have a feeling that's not going to happen. And I think he's better than some people are giving him credit for, including yourself by a with all due respect damon hold on guys hold on beep bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo boop just using the calculator i am using the mc i am using the math calculator if you were him that by financial it's trust me it's fine i'll clear better to ask for forgiveness than permission that's what i always say when i broke out the calculator

uh because mike's using some math there saying you know he he finished bulk of and and kutuzlades didn't and the calculator does kind of shine favorably on that it has a lot of permutations It's in a very advanced technology. It's why it costs $82,000 every time we use it. So I like thinking, Mike. Again, I don't always agree because, you know, styles make fights and all that. Some guys are going to be more, you know,

more able to finish guys and others. But it's a good point to bring up. Now, Jed, I think, has been waiting, has been a good boy. He's impatient longer enough. I feel like there's a strong point he wants to make. So we've got one argument for, all right, we've guys both, both, both, Kyle Carr, France.

He was Tom Aspinall. Oh, yeah, Tom Noss will get there for all right. Mike said both will probably win Tom Aspinol first. Okay. Uh, Jed, where you're going? You're going with one of these two? You're going off board. Look, my colleagues here, both smart, handsome men who are just stone wrong.

Um, and it's not their fault. It's their fault about one thing because while they may disagree, they agreed on one point, which is arguably the, the most bothersome thing to me in this whole thing, was that we agreed that Asker Askrov was the toughest matchup for Kaihkao, France, which is objectively not true. you know why? Because he beat Asker Ascarov and he didn't beat

Brandon Moreno. And I think right now we could all ask, do we think Brandon Moreno right now is better than the Brandon Marino that fought Garnair, France two years ago? I think we'd all be an agreement that he is.

So it's not like, well, Moreno's old and washed. Like it's obviously the most difficult matchup for him in this division is Brandon Moreno. that's why I'm not going to pick Kai. I think Kai, I'd be really interested in a fight between him and Davis and Figurado. I could see that going either way.

I do think Brandon Moreno was just a really tough out. And that was a good fight their first one. But I thought Brandon Moreno kind of cleanly won it. And I would favor him to win a rematch again. On the Tommy Aspinall thing, I side a lot with Damon, what he said. I do think the big benefit to Tommy Aspinall other than the song, Tommy Espinno, Tommy Yesman, oh, is he's young in a division that's old. And so, like Damon, I would favor Inganu over him.

I'd favor Blades over him. But Tommy keeps telling us that we've only seen a little bit of what he's able. And if that's true, then strap the boots to him. He's going to be champion for 12 years. But even if that's not, he's still going to have plenty of opportunities in this division to win it. For me, I think if either of those men won the title, I wouldn't be surprised. I think it's in the realm of possibility.

But if they don't, I won't be shocked if neither man wins it. My pick, very obvious, Muhammad Mikhail, if he doesn't win a belt before his career is done in the UFC, I will be stunned. This kid is 21 years old. We talked about him a lot coming into UFC London. He opened the show four-second submission or whatever nonsensically fast guillotine dominance that way.

was of Cody Durden. He fights like everything that was said about Kai Kara France, the division is a little more open. He is so young, he is so good, he is so experienced already. This kid is going straight to the moon. And maybe he doesn't win in his first time.

Maybe it takes him a few years to get there. Like I said, if he doesn't end up holding a UFC title, I will be pretty surprised. Whereas with the other two gentlemen, if they won, it wouldn't shock me, but if they never held the belt, I also, it wouldn't shock me either. So for me, it's Ghalyne McAev.

I knew, I just want to say, I knew Jed would go off board. I'd hoped it wouldn't happen so quickly, but he has been talking a lot about Makai of since that performance. So really not surprising. So I want just to reiterate, Jed, so of all the names you mentioned, including the possibility of, you know, Valentina leaving the division and, you know, how new champion. have to be crown anyway. Let's say they don't let her keep the flyway title.

You would still pick Makayev from all those names we sort of just, we sort of discussed to, if you had to pick one, if you had to pick one, if you had to pick one, if you had to pick one, if I had to pick one, I think Mikhail is the most likely person in, in the group of contenders who have fought this past month to become a champion. It's not on a timeline. If I'm, if I'm picking only for speed, it's Tom Aspinall because he's got the shortest route and the easiest path. But if I have to, if they don't become a champion and I will.

will die. If my life is on the line, I'm stacking my chips behind Mikhail. That's it. Well, I can give you a little inside baseball here and said we had some last minute scrambling to get Makaiyev into a couple of rankings, Jed, yours. And Mike as well, I believe you also threw Makaiv in your rankings. So do you want to say a few words about this flyweight, this ridiculous flyweight prodigy who was like all this amateur experience? Looked incredible. He fought for brave before coming to the UFC. It looked incredible on his youth to debut. you are you on the same wavelength with Jed here as far as Makayov's chances?

Yeah, I mean, he's got to be a champion. I completely agree with that. He's going to be, he's going to win the title. I don't know. I mean, it might be five years from now, but he'll win the title. He'll get there. That's the thing. Five years from now, he's still only 20-pring and six.

I know. Like, Brandon Brayno is going to be an old flyweight in five years. And Mahehov is just going to be hitting like, not even hitting his physical peak. This dude's getting a belt. It's so early to see. Hey, I can never, I'll say, I'm probably one of the, you know, I'm one of the most, like, conservative people when it comes to predicting champions, predicting fights and things like that. So I, I'm boring.

I'm a boring human being. Okay, this is, we know this, this is a fact. So for me to project that this young man who's has one UFC fight, you know, 21, 21 years old, I can't make that leap. So I definitely would go with, I mean, from the list that we have, I do think, and I'm not just saying this to disagree with you guys, I do think that Valentina will go, obviously defend one more time, probably go up to win the

phantomweight title, and if she does, she beats Julina Pena Pena. Mennas. I think she'll hang around for a defense and they won't let her keep it. Like I said, she can always go back down. So I do think an interim title will be contested. And I think Manalfioro will be one of the names in that matchup. And

so I will go off, not off war, but I'll just go against you guys and say, I think she might beat Aspinall and Carverfrance to a title. Again, maybe I'm just very high off of this nice win over a top ten opponent. and Jennifer Maya. Damon, what do you think about the Makayev stuff, though? I mean, is that, are you as bullish

as these guys saying, like, it's definitely going to happen based on what you've seen? Muhammad Makaya will be a UFC champion without all my mind. He is a prodigy. He is an incredibly talented kid. I mean, he has the Dagestani wrestling roots. He has incredible, he is the complete package. I mean, he is that, like, I didn't put him in that list

only because I know it's going to take him longer. You know what I mean? Like, I'm saying Kai Kar, France could be champion this year because he may fight for the title this year. It may take Muhammad Makayev a couple of years to get to that point just because, you know, they might build him up slowly and, you know, allow him to take some fights. And, you know, I think it's hard to put a timeline on it. He will be a champion, though.

I am 100% a believer in Muhammad Makayev. I think that kid is a prodigy and 100% he will be a champion. And to your point about flyweight, I think even if Schochenko went to Bantzwebate became champion that decides she wanted to go to featherweight and become champion, they're still going to let her keep that title because I listen unless unless misha tate becomes like you know an incredibly new fighter and somehow dethrones valentina which i don't see happening in any way shape or form they don't have a mark i mean i love casey o'neill i think she's an incredibly marketable fighter and an incredible fighter in her own right man oh look great this past weekend i love alexa grotto but valentina is the longest reigning champion you know and and And she's the face of the women's division right now. You don't take a title away from her. She just decides she wants to go up and beat Juliana Pena for a second time.

You just don't. So unless she decides to give up the title, I don't think that's going to happen. I'll think the UFC would ever strip her or tell her she has to make a choice. I don't see that happening. She's not in the Connor McGregor position where they're going to say you're holding up a division because they know Valentina doesn't do that. She will fight four times a year if that's what's necessary. Oh, by the way, I'm going to raise.

I'm raising Jed here. Not only will Muhammad Mojaf be a flyway champion, but he will make that short list of fighters who have won championships in two different divisions. He will win the Banimoy title as well at some point. He's that good. To the moon. I'm convinced he's that good. We are to the moon.

Yeah. When he's 26, 27. Yeah. Strap on the rockets and let's go to the moon, AK, because we're all on board. Yep. I'm that convinced. He's a special talent. and it's not often when we see these guys come along.

Hamza Shamaif and Baha'iath, not quite to that level just yet, but I think he could be. I absolutely think he could be. Another winner, too. Yeah, and they're being really smart. Looks like he's going to fight on the International Fight Week card against opponent TBD.

It's not going to be Tim Elliott, although I would favor him to beat Tim Elliott right now, even though that's such a difficult matcher for a lot of guys in this division. So, yeah, strap the rockets to him. because, but don't like strap them now. Just build the rockets, put them on the garage wall, and just, you know, build a nice case with multiple locks on it. Maybe some, maybe some dials on it. You got to build the launch pad.

Yeah, build the launch pad. The fire the rockets from is like 400 feet of concrete. But we got to build that out. And then to the moon, AK, to the moon. Seat belts, stand, push the button. Gone. Two division champion. On the points of positivity, I'm never going to begrudge you guys, you know, pumping the,

pumping the tires for some, for some prospect. I mean, it's great. Again, he looked great. He was really, I actually thought he was also pretty good during Media Day 2. I mean, or at least he had the story ready, the whole elevator story, you know what I mean? Even if it was like a rehearsed thing. Not a bad looking kid. Not a bad looking kid.

Certainly a market. And he's 21. He's 21. Now you're just making me mad because I, you know, now I'm thinking what was I doing when I was 21 and all that, and I tell you something, was not winning UFC fights and being projected by an esteemed panel of experts to, I think all three of you use the G word, guaranteed. In the world of mixed martial arts and combat sports,

where I would say literally nothing is guaranteed. All three of you, my voice is cracked there, all three of you use the word guaranteed. And I don't disagree, by the way, I don't disagree with Mike about Bantamweight as well. I just didn't put that on him because I don't know when that's going to happen, but I don't disagree. I think that's absolutely a possibility. He may fall out of love in MMA in a year and decide to become a professional bass player. We don't know.

I'm not willing to guarantee the Bannam weight, but I respect Mike so much for doing it. I respect him so. I won't guarantee it. I can see it. I'm not there to guarantee it. God, do I respect the take. Listen, let me see him beat Matthias Nicolao first, and then I'll, what we can talk, all right? Minus 600.

I feel like we're not talking about Nicolao enough, okay? Nicolao is one of the most underrated. No? I love Nicola. Guys, chime in any moment. I love Nikola. I picked him to win that fight. I bet on him to win that fight.

He won that fight. It was great. I think he is going to fight for the flyway title at one point in his career. And I mean, depending on how the matchup goes, maybe he gets it. But I'm not strapping the rockets to Nicolao. Like, it's just, it's, there are levels to this game. Mahia of is the apex. prospect. He's what Aaron Pico was supposed to be.

This young man has one UFC fight. You guys are unbelievable. And I mean that in a good way. You guys are I wouldn't believe that you guys were existed if I did not work with you regularly. You guys are unbelievable. Okay, I want to do more champ of talking to say. I was actually this next segment. I should have probably led with this because I think this could lead to some. No, actually no, I'm glad I built up to it because I like that. I think you guys, other than again,

Damon taking his usual cheap shots at Mike. I think that was fairly agreeable. I think, but this might lead to some contentious, contentious discussion. We have six title fights now lined up, officially lined up for UFC 273, U.S. 274, U.C. 275 coming up. Each, again, fingers crossed. We'll have two title fights on it. 273, we'll see the featherweights Alexander Pocanovsky defend against

not related, but replaced for Max Holloway, the Korean zombie chance Sung-jong. And also, finally, again, my fingers could not be crossed more. Al Jemaine Sterling versus Peotrion, too. Champion versus champion, but we're kind of calling it a title defense for Al Jemayne Sterling, how everyone look at. UFC 274, Charles Olivaire versus Justin Gavec, maybe the most anticipated of all these fights I'm about to mention. And then Rose Namajunis versus Carla Asparza finally getting her shot.

That's also a rematch. I should have made a note there. Long-awaited and well-deserved rematch. And UFC 275, the ageless Grover-Tierra versus. the man who has already been anointed by some of our panel as the champion at Light Heavyweight, Yuri Prakashka, and also we are expecting Valencia Chiena to go for yet another defense against Talas Santos, who ready or not is getting her shot. So, boys, I've set the over-hundred here.

We're going to play a little over-under. I have set the over-under two and a half new UFC champions from those six title fights. So actually, Jed, I want to start with you this time. You are our gambling expert. So this is, I mean, this is an exactly the most complicated thing to best. on but over under two and a half new champions by the time these three events are done first let me just say okay really well set line because this is if this this is up if it was three and a half i have an easy answer uh i am very conflicted and it for me it comes down to the sterling yon fight

uh because i'm i we'll we'll hear what everyone else has to say i am going to be picking just against you to take the belt from charles olivera i know that you are the A1 number one Chuckie Olive stand, but I've been back in Gigi since forever, and I'm going to ride that train until the wheels fall off. So that's one? I'm also going to take Phrashko over to share. I'm sure Mike will have some things to say about that come time. And so for me, I think Volko is the best featherweight.

That's not happening. We've already talked enough about Chipchenco. That ain't happening. I suspect Namahunas will get it done over the Sparza, though that's maybe a closer fight. And so for me, it's Sterling Yan, too. And I currently have Al Jermaine Sterling ranked as the top animal weight in the world. And that changes every other day in my head as I think about this rematch and how it will go. Because obviously, Jan was winning the first one until he lost the first one.

And I feel like Sterling has a really good chance to. win this fight, but also maybe that's just me standing on a corner too long. So I'm going to take the over just because I think two of these are definitely going to happen. And then with four other fights, I just need one more to cash it. But it's a great, great line. Really well set at two and a half. Aside from Sterling, Antoin, and I said that would be not likely to decide. Aside from that one, what would be the next one that would make you consider going over?

The Namahunus Asparza. I suspect, I think Rose is a really good fighter. I think Rose has also had lapses. And I think that she is unquestionably a better fighter than Carla Isbara. But I think the style matchup is still not, it's not like ideal for Namahunas. And she has had moments where she has just kind of not been dialed in in the cage. I just don't know how up she'll be for this. Like, it's anything's in play with her.

And so I think she's the least safe of the ones that I'm picking to retain. At least that's how it feels to me. She's always kind of, I don't know, it doesn't sound so insulting to say like she always feels like she's in danger in a lot of her fights. It's almost like a GSP. I think GSP there was some element to that as well. Not in every matchup, but in a lot of his matchups, you always felt like he'd get knocked out. You always felt like he was, his opponent had some sort of specialty that if, If they, oh, if they were able to make the fight this way, then they could beat him.

And, of course, it turned out not to be the case. I do wonder if Namajunis, again, is going to go down that same path where we keep, it makes her fight so compelling because we think, like, oh, yeah, well, this person, again, Jessica And Drash, that knockout power and as far as just the elite wrestling, you know, and she beat her the first time. And then if she keeps, you know, maybe she can put together a GSP-like run. Probably needs to be a little more active. But I do feel like there's that vulnerability, that weirdly appealing vulnerability that makes us want to watch her fights.

Now, you mentioned it. I honestly think it just comes down to like she clearly has other interests outside of fighting. Like that's a good thing for her as a person. Like she is interested in helping, like saving the world and her farm and animals. And like that's all really good. But it's like people when they talk about the NFL draft coaches get really into, does this guy love football? Because if he doesn't, that's and like I don't, sometimes it just feels like this is a job that Rose is very good at.

And so she does it because she does it because she's, very good at it and she can make money with it, but like this isn't really where her passion and her heart lies. And so at any given time, that gives me pause about, okay, it's easier. If that's your mentality, it's easier to have that mentality climbing up the mountain than it is to be at the top of the mountain because you hear champions talk all the time about how it's really difficult to just every day have to give your best when you've already done it. And everybody else is the one who's got the chip on their shoulder.

They're trying to prove something. And so I think she's, like I said, I think she's a much better fighter than Asparza, but I think Asparza is probably the one that's more motivated coming into this fight. And so that just gives me, I'm still picking Rose to win. I'm just saying that that's the one that gives me the most pause because I just don't know how invested she is going to be in defending her belt. All right, Mike, I want to go to you next. I don't know if you want to address that Namajunis analysis first, or the kind of premature burial of New England.

New England's own, Glover DeShera, that Jed mentioned before. So I'll go to you. Feel free. I don't know. You want to talk to Cher. You want to tell you. Nowjunis, talk about someone else. The globe has been thrown, Mike.

Please respond. And also, when you feel ready, give me your over under two and a half. Well, I mean, this is the easiest question of the day. This is the U.N.D.E.R. of all U.N.D.R. is because Volko is going to win. Peter. Peoteryon's going to beat Al Jaljamed Sterling. So there's your one.

Oliver Gae is interesting. That would be my contentious one to make it too. But I'm still going to lean with Charles Oliverer to come through the fire and get it done. I think Nama Yunus wins relatively easy against Carlis Farsal. I think Carl's run has been great. She has a lot going on in her life too. She's about to get married. I think she's getting married a week after this fight.

So she's going to be thinking about that. And trust me when I tell you this, when it's wedding time, it's very hard to focus on anything else. Even if you're in a cage fighting another woman, it's very difficult to focus on that when you have a wedding to plan. So there's that. And plus, we can,

Carla has done a great job and she should have got this title fight a long time ago and we have been on top of the mountain tooting the horn for Carla Sparza to get this fight. But the last time Carla Sparza had the light shone bright upon her, she got pounded badly by Yuani and Jacek.

And it took her a long time to get over that fight. A long time, years to get past that. Now she's going to have to, it's not the same thing, but she's going to be dealing with a fight week fighting for a title. It's going to bring back some old memories of the extra media and doing all the extra stuff. And maybe there's some motivation there and she's learned some stuff along the way. But I just feel like Nama Yun is just is more equipped for that situation.

and Carla Sparsas. And like Rose needed to be there and lose to find it again and find her love. She's been through way, like way more stuff. And I feel like she is focused. Like she does have this other stuff. But I feel like with all the ups and downs she's had in her career, she has found perfect balance in her life to be a professional fighter to grow a bunch of vegetables and save the world and do all these things that Jed mentioned.

So I think Nami Unis, I don't think she goes out there and finishes Asparza, but I think it's a very clear 50-45 kind of performance. Okay. So just one still, just one, Peter Yan still. Yes. Valentina Shepchenko versus Tilos Santos. I think Tilos Santos will bring some interesting challenges to the table, but Chivchenko is going to.

Damon, please, Damon, please. Sorry, I couldn't control it. I'd love to hear what those challenges are beyond. I'm trying to be nice. Which bones, Valentina is going to break, punching her. Listen, I'm trying to be nice here. She's going to present some interesting challenges. She's tall.

She's rangy. She does a lot of things very well. She's going to lose and lose decisively to Valati de Shep Django. So that's a no. And Glover Tashara is going to submit Yuri Phrashka in the first round. I'm telling you right now. You have been saying this for a while. For anyone who's just hearing Mike's prediction first, this is nothing new.

You have said, I think on other previous shows, you do believe Jujitsu will overcome Prohachka. He hasn't faced anyone recently anyway with Tashir. his level of grappling. You think once it gets down there, it's over. He's been saying it since Glover War. I've been saying it since Glover beat Jan Belhovic. And I said on the post-fight show that day, Glover needs one takedown and the fight is over.

One takedown. That's it. Now, getting that takedown is going to be very, very difficult. Because Yuri Perashka is a freaking animal. The guy is nothing but chaos. But Glover is so seasoned. He just needs one. He could just run across the cage and body lock him and take him down.

and the fight is over. So he just needs one take down. If he gets one takedown, he wins the fight. Yeri could beat him, and Uri's going to be heavily favored to do so, and maybe I'm on an island here. But Glover just needs one takedown, and he will get that takedown and win. So I'm saying one, maybe two of these titles change hands. Jan will probably be the one.

Oliver I'm not as confident about, but Gachie could win it. So, yeah, there'll be no more than two of these bad boys. You're pretty much going one. You pretty much said just one. One and a half. Even the one you picked, he's already an interim champion. So it's like he's our one guy that kind of has a title. A peodorian, that's the one you're most confident about.

So interesting, Mike going up, Mike, you're expecting, we're going to hear a lot of and still over the next, over the next three or four months. Interesting. Okay. I know we can circle back to some of these, but Damon, of course, I want to give you your turn first. Where are you on this one, man? Two and a half, over under.

Well, I got to give credit where credit's due. My man, Mike Heck is 100% on the money. I'm going under I'm going under as well I think you know Volcanozky and Shepchenko are as close as locks as you can have in terms of defending champions

I don't see either of them losing I think Peter Jan is the biggest lock to become a new champion I think he washes Al Jermaine Sterling I think this is a one-sided beatdown I think his fight doesn't last three rounds Peter Yon is an animal that guy I

I was slow to come around on Peter Yon because I was like man he gets hit a little bit too much and I'm not really sure. The way he went out there and took out Corey Sandhagen after that first round, I was so incredibly impressed by that. And yes, I know Al Jermaine beat Corey Sanhagen, but it's a

completely different matchup, and he was dominating Al Jermaine Sterling until he threw the illegal knee and lost the fight. So Peter Eon is by lock to become a new champion. My gut says Gaichi wins. My gut says Gaichi beats all of there. That's two.

But again, that's not, that's not, It's not a lock, so that's why I'm like, okay, I see Gagey being two. I think Nama Yunus beats Asparza, but I wouldn't be totally shocked out of my mind of Asparza pulls that off because A, she's already beaten Nama Yunus. And the deficiencies that Nami Unis had in that fight while she is much better now, Carla is still a very good wrestler and a very, very good grappler. She could potentially go out there and just take Rose down and control her on the ground. It may not be the most exciting fight.

It may not be the, you know, it may not turn into any of Rose's other title fights, but I think she could potentially go out there do that. But I'm going to lean towards Nami Unis just based on the fact that she's gotten so much better. And, and again, I think she is an incredible champion. I agree with Mike on Glover and Yuri Prohoshka. I think when you get taken down and mounted by Dominic Reyes, you're not making it off the ground with Glover to share. Now, to that point, Glover may walk into a space. spinning back fist, head kick, whatever combination the Yeri throws because that guy's a wild man. He may hit it with his ponytail and knock him out.

I have no idea. But on paper, to me, one takedown, as Mike said, it's over. Because Yeri has a big deficiency on the ground. We've seen that. Glover is the worst guy you could have with that in terms of like that outside of like a John Jones, of course. Glover to Chera is an incredible ground technician. And we've seen Glover get smarter on this run. He's no longer typically going out there

and just throwing hands with people until he gets a knockout and hoping his chin survives. I think he's going to go out there and he knows his easiest path to victory is taking Pajaska down and submitting him. And I think he does it. So again, Janza Lock, that's my number one.

I think Gaichi wins, that's two. As far as is, again, I give her a better chance I think a lot of people are giving her, but I still have to lean towards the Army Union. It's the same thing with Yuri. I could 100% see Yuri doing it, but I'm picking Glover. And then, of course, I got Schochenko and Volcanowski as locks. So I'm going to, so under, yeah, so Peter Jan put that, just go ahead and just go

and give him the title right now. Let's just go and crown him champion. That one's done. Wow. And that one's done. Gachi, again, I think he wins, but it's not going to be easy. Oliver has proved me a lot in these last few fights. Listen, I'm with Jet on that.

I'm a Gaichi guy. Like, I love Justin Gaichy. I guy's an animal. I don't know that he beats his Lamakachov, but he's an animal. So, yeah, I go Gaichi and Jan as the champions. Everybody else defends. Man, I love how much Glover love there is. I was going to say, first I want to say, that was interesting.

So much belief in a 42-year-old man to withstand the fistic styling of Yuri Prasca. Let me just say, Damon almost did what I do with my job. predictions were like he actually made a pretty I feel like he made several strong arguments for why there could be new champions and why you should go the over um but then but picked the under anyway uh now jed again so so we had mike go way under Mike is very confident damon pretty confidently go under and so jad you did but you did sort of arithmetic thing you have two you have two like you know you think fairly strong and and then literally four other chances where if something crazy happens the over hits, right?

And one of those spins, again, like, I think, I think Jan Sterling, if I'm being honest in my head probably does favor Jan. I just, I have a feeling about Sterling in that bout. So I think two are hitting. And then if that one does, if my head's right, then that's at least three. So I'm taking the over.

I think I'll show winning, like, a controversial decision would also just be like the funniest outcome of all. Oh, my God. You kidding me? Now comes as if Jan knees him in the head again. I mean, obviously, yes. It's a similar. The funniest thing that's ever happened.

And you just keep doing it until there's a clean finish, which there will never be. Or what about a sterling knees Jan? That would be chef's kid. Oh, the Eric Prendel. The Eric Prendel. Zeep cut. People, the real ones know. The real ones know.

I'm going to go, gosh. You know, it's funny. I made these questions out and didn't really think of an answer for my I think oh like listen I'm mr. conservative so obviously I'm going under because I I'm olivera I think olivera is going to win I might be going no six and still now that I'm looking at it because I do like Korsuchchenko and wokenoski I'm sticking with them I love to shira I love juzitsu so olivara and teshira now junis is now junis is probably the one I'm most if young because I do like that as far as it has won the first fight and I feel like her skill set

as far as anyway has not changed that much and it's just still her her primary skill is so strong. And so if anything, it's gotten better. And Namajunis, as good as she is, I mean, this is a rest. M.A. is at this level, very much a wrestler's game. And that's what as far as it is. So that would be like my closest, but I'm still picking Namadunus. And Sterling, Jan, too.

No, I got to go with Jan this time. I went, I thought you're going to do it. I know. I thought you're going to do it. And we'll see, listen, when prediction time comes around, I reserve the right to change my mind. But, yeah, I'm almost, I'm almost going all and stills. Yeah, because Sterling, because Sterling, Yon, even then, I'm probably leaning yon now. Like Damon said, that Corey Sanhagen performance was just magnificent.

And I'm not going to break up the M-A math calculator again. Yes, the M-M-Math calculator would favor Sterling because he got the finish over Corey Sannhagen and Yon didn't. But there's so much other evidence we have to work with of both guys that I do like, I do like Yon here. So, yeah, I think three of us going under. But Jed, again, for anyone who doesn't know is listening, he runs the MA-Fighting official gambling column every week ahead of a UFC event. So maybe he knows something we don't. And I don't know if you use the calculator, Jed, but your math does make sense. Two, you're super confident about plus and then one out of four shot.

And this is, this is MA. Volcanozzi could stub his toe. That's the one I hope the most. I'll throw this out there right now. Chubchenko, to me, is the biggest lock. I think we all agree on that unless she just trips on the way to the octagon and falls over and she's not losing. I actually put Peter Yan as a bigger lock than Volcanovsky. That's how much confidence I have in Peter Yan.

That's insane. That's how much confidence I have in Peter Yan. Don't get me wrong. Volcanovsky's going to win. I think he's going to win. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that he's going to lose. I'm just saying that the zombie has pulled off weird, crazy things before,

and there's always a chance of something weird and crazy. And Volkanowski, like I said, we saw in the Brian Ortega fight. He had a couple moments where bad things happened. I don't think he's going to lose. I'll put all my money on Volcanowski winning. I think Peter Yon, I think Peter Yon is the biggest lock besides Chedgaon. chinker in my mind. I don't think that's crazy at all because as you said look I mean Volcanowski got hurt a lot in the Ortega fight people people keep saying I mean I think

they're wrong but they keep saying he lost the Max Holloway fight I mean that so it's not like valkynosky has been this 40 50 40 fifty fiving first round knockout dominant champion now I think again I love his performances I think the fact that he has overcome adversity is what makes him to me such so impressive and why I do think he will make pretty easy work of the zombie but he is a guy who gets hit and does get in trouble and zombie's offense is top-notch i don't know if you want to whatever if you want to poke holes in his all-around game as far as 140 fibers go he he has as much firepower as anybody so if wokenowski is even just a little bit off and gets clipped by a zombie shot you

really don't know what can happen so i kind of understand damon's logic there jett i feel like i feel like you don't know uh mike apparently handed out those crazy pills and i didn't get it all right no Maybe I'm wrong. I have to go to watch the fight for tape study anyway. I do not, I remember Volkanovsky getting hit. I don't remember him getting hurt by Brian Ortega. I remember him getting almost sub twice by Brian Ortega. Like, he's, I say this all the time.

Volcanovsky's the bank. Like he, he is a casino and you can't play. The only way you can win is with super violent offense. And I guess technically TKZ has that, but. he's also old and realistically the Korean zombies like run right now is more a feel good story for a guy

who already did his thing and then it's still kind of doing it with good matchups and a couple of quality performances at the right time not like oh yeah this guy's just beating everybody still to be clear and to be clear

to just so we're clear I 100% of picking Volkovsky to win I'm just saying that I actually consider Peter John a bigger lock only because I think he beats Al Jermaine Sterling. I think he's so motivated to beat Al J. Sterling and beat him badly. And again, Al J. Al Jamein, you know, hasn't done anything since

that fight. He's been out this entire time. Peter Young went out there and beat a very good guy in Corey Sanagan, who was on a great run at that point coming off a win over T.J. Dillishall. I don't care what the judges said. He beat T. J. Dilishol. So, yeah, that's why it's not that I'm not picking Volcano.

I think I'm 100% agree. I think Volcanowski's going to win. He's either going to be a 50-45 decision or he's going to end up finishing him late in the fight. I just am that confident Peter Yan. I just want to say I think zombie is a little bit more than kind of just happy to be here. Keep in mind, outside of the Ritega loss, he would be unbeaten since his first title, the fight with Josie Aldo if it wasn't for an insane elbow for Mayor-Year Rodriguez. I mean, we would be talking on a guy who is five and one.

I had wheels. I'd be a wagon. Yeah. Well, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. We have to be realistic about his performance level has not declined like one bit. Now, I guess if the cases you want to say is that his ceiling is what it is anyway, and it's not championship level, you can say that, but I don't know.

Sure, his performance level, I'm fine even stipulating that, but he beat Anato Moikano, who's now a lightweight, who I was never all that sold on as a featherweight anyway, but different thing. Old Frankie Edgar and Danny Gay, like those solid fighters. Those are, that is worlds apart from Volko. beating Max Holloway twice. I will say this too.

Not that I'm picking Volcanowski to win. I don't think it's all that close, if we're being honest. But if there's a group of coaches around a certain fighter that I want, that I don't have a ton of time to prepare for a guy like Alexander Volcanowski having my back, it's the fight ready guys right now. It's Eddie Cha. It's Henry Sehudo. It's those guys.

Like these are the guys that I would want. as my coaches for a short-notice fight against an absolute stud like Alexander Volcanowski, because they are very tricky, they're very smart, and say what you will about Henry Suhudo, the guy just says dumb things in public, but from all accounts, he is a tremendous coach, like a tremendous coach in the gym, and he was in the running. I mean, he wanted the fight, and as soon as TKZ got it, Suhudo just turned the thing, turned the corner to not to Volcanovsky, turn it to the UFC and Dana White, supported zombie all the way. These are the guys that I would want preparing me to fight Alexander Volkanowski on two or three months notice.

And I don't think it makes a difference in the overall result. But for those who think that this fight could be a little interesting, I think that's a factor for those people. It should be anyways. Well, boys, keep these takes in mind. We're just what, less than two weeks away now from these fights actually happening. That is Volcanoxi zombie and Sterlingeon, too. So pretty close. I mean, well, no, Mike, way under.

I said, Damon a little bit under. And then, Jed, willing to take a chance, go over. I will, I will throw out a poll at some point. Probably when this, when this, all right, listen. As if there was a question. I'm surprised there isn't one already and we're not live. Look, if we were, that poll would have been taken out a long time ago. Now, listeners, I will have a poll out probably the same day this podcast.

If I forget, I don't know, someone at me or something, but I do want to know over, I will set, I try to put this to poll for them. It's going to tricky, but over under 2.5, new UFC champions from the six upcoming title fights in the next few months. All right. Now, guys, I will, we want to close out here. Those took a little more time than I expected, but that's how it always is with this bunch. Oh, first of all, I mean, the most important question, I think is, uh, guys, how about that Patty Pimbled? I don't, I don't think we talk about this guy enough.

I think we got to, no. Stop it. Mike, I won't derail another podcast with Patty Pimlet talk. I've made my case. Everyone's made their case. No, the real guy I want to talk about is probably the polar opposite of Patty Pimblit. Jed, I believe I mentioned at the beginning of the show, just an opening segment. Demetius Johnson, one of the all-time great mixed martial artists, pound for pound top five, you know, however you want to.

He exited, I think, for the first time since we started doing our own rankings, our own pound for pound rankings on NEMA fighting. He's out. He's out. He's out of the top 20. You know, at 20 is a pretty big field. Demetia Johnson, despite the fact that he actually competed in something for the first time since the loss to Adriano Morais, who Damon would call the rightful king of the 125 pound division. He fought Rod Tang. It's fun.

He got a submission, a little mixed rules fight. Very fun outing. But apparently it was not enough to convince our pound to keep around. So, and, and he's now tied for fourth with Kai Kar-France. Once the undisputed pound for pound best fighter in the world in his own division now, guys, is tied with Kai Kar France. Now, we know why. My question right now is, man, like, what are we going to do with Demetrius Johnson? Do we think he's ever going to end up back in the top 20 of our pound for pound again?

Do we care? Does it even matter? Do we prefer that he goes off and does kickboxing and jiu-jitsu and all the stuff? He's always said he wanted to do outside of M. Damon, just give me a Demetri's Johnson thoughts, whatever you want to say about him, because it is kind of, it feels so weird to say he's just no longer in that pound for pound discussion it feels like it's a it's a weird one because i think that you know demetrius is still in my opinion you know where let me let me pull up my my flyweight i actually have i actually have him at number 20 in the uh in the um pound for pound

pound so i have him right at the tail end um let me see here flyweight hold on one second let me flyweight, I have him at number four. So I have him, yeah, right ahead of Kai Kar-France. Listen, here's the thing about Demetrius Johnson is that I think that he is still, you know, one of the best flywates in the world. What's killing him right now is that he's been out of action so long, and the last time we saw him, he got his head knocked off by Adriana Marias. The one thing I will disagree about, though, is I think that the level of competition

in one championship in flyweight is still pretty solid. I mean, Yu-Iwakamatsu, Danny Kingad, I mean, they have some solid fighters at flyweight. over in one championship, which is again, you know, when Adriana Marius is my number one-ranked guy, because you go out there and you knock out Demetrius Johnson, you become number one. The problem is, since then, DJ has been sitting stagnant, not doing anything, and you had Figurato-Morino going out there and having these incredible fights, beating each other, and it's hard not to put them ahead of him. I like Kai Kar-Franz very much, and beating Asker-A-R-A-Sker-Ov is a very big deal.

But we also can't forget that Kai-Kar-France has, he's only on a two-fight win streak. I mean, it's not like he's on this incredible six-fight win streak, and he's beating everybody else in the division. He's won, you know, he beat Cody Garberran. Okay, well, I'm not sure where Cody Garber really fits in this conversation anymore. And then he beat Ascroft, which is the defining win. So I still have Demetreus Johnson as the number four guy. And if he goes out there and, you know, beats a couple other legit fly weights over in one championship,

he could overtake number three or maybe number two. I have a hard time believing he'd ever get that high again unless he beats Adrianne and a rematch. As far as pound for pound, I mean, I think he's still, I have him at number 20. always there. I think the problem I've always had Demetrius Johnson being up towards number one when a lot of people had him ranked number one before we, of course, had the best rankings in the world at MMA fighting, is level of competition. I said this forever. I said, listen, I love Demetri's Johnson. I think he's an incredible champion. He's an incredible fighter. The problem is, is that it's hard for me to justify him being number one over a guy, like let's say, Kumar Usman, or at the time of

John Jones, or whoever, because the level of competition at Flyway just isn't as good. And it's not a knock on Demetrius Johnson. It's just, it's hard for me to justify putting him number one when he has, you know, certain wins on his record that just wouldn't, you wouldn't be a blip on a radar of other guys in terms of pound for pounds. So I have him at number 20 because that's kind of where he fits right now in terms of what he's done in his crease. He's getting, he's getting by largely on a career accomplishment right now more than the what have you done for me lately. And the reality is a couple other guys could knock him out. So that's the problem he's running into right now. He always had a weaker division at Flyweight. Flyweight is just

not as deep as other divisions and not as established as other divisions. And also recently, he's just been out of action. His last fight was a knockout loss. And it's just hard to justify him being higher in those rankings. So I still am a 20, but I don't know, unless he goes out there and avenges the lost Adrian and Marias, I don't know how much higher he can get. I will say I will always defend Demetrius Johnson's level of competition. I do think because the flyweight division wasn't established, he doesn't have that.

He's not able to say, oh, he beat a former chance. champions, things that, because there were no other champions besides him, unless you want to count Tachi Palace fight guys, one of whom he beat Ian McCalla, right? So, like, I think, like, and I always look at the guys he beat, how successful are they after, and so many of them still went on to be, like, competitive fighters, and are still competing. Ali Baguitinov is still a really good win. Kio Jujujo, he killed him the first time, right? Tim Elliott's still competing. Joseph Benavides was a contender for a long time. So I would put his resume, and I'm going to get crucified for this, I don't care. I think his resume is, like, considerably stronger

than like an Anderson Silva if you take like the whole body of work I really think that you never yet you don't hear if people question well they do a bit but not as much as they do Deree Johnson question their level of competition so I will defend that but also weirdly I am also one of the people who

does not have I don't think I have to meet just Johnson in my pound for pound anymore so I think you make a great point about like he's getting by now on his past achievements because his last win in MMA October 2019 over two years since he won an MMA. And again, I liked Danny King ad, you know, Yuwaiwakamatsu, the guys

who's been in one, but, you know, they have about the same, why less esteem to some of the guys he fought in the UFC. So it is kind of weird. Mike, General Demetrius Johnson thoughts, what, what are your thoughts on him right now just in his, his career? I mean, I think you, I think you asked the right question. Do we even care? No, and I don't mean this in a bad way. I don't, I do, not mean this in a bad way. I mean this in a Derek Lewis, Thai Twivasa kind of way where

does it really even matter where he is in the rankings? Because we all know how good DJ is. We all know where he will sit in the annals of fight sport when his career is over. When we look back on DJ's career a decade from now, we will sing his praises gloriously. And it'll be a beautiful song. But at this point in his career, make that money son.

I don't care what you do. Grapple. Graple Daniel Kelly for all I care. Graple anybody. Graple DeRenier. Graple the middleweight champion of the world. Who cares? Just get in there, have some fun, and make that bank. Rankings don't matter

with this guy anymore. He got traded and the deal he signed with one by all accounts is just for a ridiculous amount of money. I mean, UFC fighters, current UFC champions, some of the bigger stars, from all accounts, I mean, this is a contract that is just unbelievable.

So him not being in the pound-for-pound rankings, I don't think he could give two shits less, part of my French. And I don't really care either. The man seems so happy, he seems so content that, just because he's not the number 20-pound-for-pound fighter in my rankings, doesn't take anything away from what that man has done in the past. The inactivity has hurt him if we're looking at it from a meritocracy standpoint. But the guy loves life.

He's making more money than he could ever spend in his entire life. His family's going to be taken care of. The guy's crushing video games. He's living the dream right now. And to me, that means more than being on any pound for pound ranking or being the number one flyweight in the world. So to me, it's more of a not caring thing, but not in like a DJ's not an interesting guy kind of way.

It's more of this guy's living the dream right now. He gets to do literally whatever he wants. He gets to mix the martial arts. mix the martial arts. He can choose one martial arts. He's not mixing the martial arts, which I approve. He is hashtag keeping the martial martial arts part, which I support. And to Mike's point real quick, just throw out there. If you listen to Demetrius talk before the last fight with Rod Tang, which is a really fun fight, I don't think he's really interested in going back after the title. I don't think he really cares. Like, I asked him

numerous times about Adrian Armaris. He's like, yeah, whatever. I don't really care. And I'm like, cool. I got no problem if he never fights Adrian Aramorize again. Like, I don't care. I'm with Mike. Like, go out and make your money, dude. Go out. fight, go grapple Andre Galvo, go kickbox, you know, go kickbox other guys, do whatever you want, but I don't think he really cares about being champion. I don't think he's chasing the Adrian

on my eyes fight. I don't think he cares. This is for both you guys. That was weak. Is this the Staples button? It's amazing. We have an $86,000 computer. It causes every time you crunch numbers, but we have to pick a phone and you can't

even push the button without an ad popping up on your cell phone. Where do you think the money went, Mike. They went to the MMA math calculator, and I don't, and I don't regret it at all. Yeah, no, I think, I think you guys are right.

I think, I think it is good. No, I would, listen, I'm going to have to add him, definitely in the, in the post, because I,

I think he will care when he sees where he is in the M.A. fighting global rankings and Pramp and Power rankings. Uh, I don't know, Jay, I don't know what you, but all this talk to me sounds like quality podcast material someday.

Uh, but what are your thoughts on, on DJ? The current state of the great Demetri's, Johnson. I mean, I think everybody said a lot of right things, some things that I disagree with, but, you know, it's fine. DJ is one of the five best fighters ever. He shouldn't be one of the top 20 pounds for pound fighters. And that's why he's not in my rankings and I don't think anyone should have him there. If you're having him there, it's entirely based on what he did at one point in

time. And sure, I mean, pound for pound, you can kind of set your own rules and do whatever you want. Lord knows I'd do that all the time. So it's fine. But like for me, the way I do my pound for pound rankings, it's, I am interested in what you have done for me lately, meaning what are your wins over current ranked fighters in your division or outside of your division? Demetius Johnson has, I think, two of those. Tim Elliott and, uh, Keoggi or Gucci, I think, are still in our rankings. So he, he just doesn't have any, he beat a lot of great people at the time, but those people are tired or quit or aren't ranked anymore. So it's just like it just is what it is.

And he's never going to get back. And like everyone said, I don't think he cares. And it's, that's just what happens. When you aren't competing in the UFC where most of the top ranked fighters in the world are, you're going to be very difficult in my rankings at least to be highly ranked in pound for pound or divisionally. It's just going to be tough because you're not going to be able to get the same quality of, competition. So, and I think what Mike said is right, get the bag. And frankly, he's just doing more fun stuff. Like, just have fun. You say it all the time, AK, MMA is supposed to be fun.

Who is having more fun in this sport right now than Demetrius Johnson? There aren't a lot of people. So I'm all for it, Mighty Mouse. Keep doing you, bud. Now, I would say the one person having more fun than Demetrius Johnson is probably Kayla Harrison, because I think she's already cast a million-dollar check for this. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Like, in terms of having fun, she's pretty much already put down a million dollar extra paycheck in her bank account that year. I'm just saying. I don't know.

She always talks about Mako Mondays, and she seems to be miserable during those. So DJ just seems happy all the time. Twitch streaming. I know. He plays video. He's a legitimate, like, e-sports guy. It's pretty wild. And he's always said he wanted to.

And just, he's a weird kind of fighter. Like, he always said he wanted to do all these things. And he's doing it. Like, he's doing it. He said this for a long time. I love video games. I love, you know, I want to do other stuff outside of M.A. And he's just doing it.

And as we keep saying, apparently being very well compensated for it. So I will say, Jed, you did add someone to your pound for pound list this year, this month, who has a win in M.A. Far more recently than Demetri Johnson, if we're being honest. So this is a very... Is that true? Look, I know that it was a special rules fight. Yeah.

The DJ won the fight in the MMA round. It's not an M. No, it's kind of like he won an M. It's not a lot. It's not a fight. It's not a... not an MMA fight. No, you know what was an MMA fight? Was our own E. Casey Leiden

winning a fight a couple weeks. Let's go. Let's go. I know people probably tired of us. I know people are probably tired of us plugging this, but I just want to say for anyone who has not watched the video, which just came out this past weekend, walking the walk. E. Casey Leiden's

it's a wonderful, it's about a 30-minute video, guys, please take your time, watch the movie video of his fight day. A lot of talents people involved, of course, himself. The brilliant Estreland, Scythe Man, is another person helping the video. I apologize to camera for everyone's names. But yeah, for anyone who hasn't seen that, it's on

MMIFining's YouTube. You can find the link on MMIFunding.com, E.C.Line, walking the walk. And by the time you guys listen to this podcast, you will have seen his name possibly snuck into, oh no, it'll be tomorrow, but you guys will see his name has maybe snuck into our pound for pound ranking.

So allow us, allow us this indulgence, please. Any closing thoughts, guys, about Demet's Johnson or pound for pound in general. I was going to turn this to a whole pound from round discussion, because Shaheen's not around and I bring this up every month as a topic like I want to have an in-depth philosophical debate about the meaning of pound for pound and he shoots it down every time he says it boring so we're really unfortunately we don't have enough time again this

week this month I should have done it while he was gone but if you guys have any parting thoughts about Dean Johnson pound for pound in general Mike anything I want to say Emma is supposed to be fun do you DJ do you mix all the rules have fun pound for pound is stupid, but we do it anyways. And that's it. I mean, good, good, good, good show. And Muhammad O'Hiaf is going to be a two-division champion at some point. Jed?

Everything Mike said, except for pound for pound is stupid. Pound for pound is great. There's nothing better than arguing things that cannot be proven and getting incredibly upset when people don't share your exact ideology. And also, Israel-Dissania is the top. in the world, y'all need to come at me. All right, people will, again, and TZR again, if you want to hear

further Jeff's thoughts on that, he will allow, I did give him an opening to elaborate on that in the article itself, which will be out Thursday, so thank you, Jed, for the line stepping, as always, but at least explaining yourself, which... Havitual line stepper. You are the habitual line stepper, and we appreciate it. Damon, anything you'd like to say?

Kamar Usman is number one pound for pound, although I kind of agree with Mike, pound for pound, It's kind of ridiculous because we all have different criteria of why we crown pound for pound. But Kamar Usman is the guy and I also want to say congratulations to New UFC Bantamweight champion Peter Yan. Well, there it is, guys. We got the usual bold takes, usual knuckleheadery, a little MMA math. And guys, Shaheen will be back with us. I'm certain in next month's show, the May.

I'm getting my months right. That'll be the May ranking show. But thank you for listening. And you guys are right. You know, most important message, MMA is supposed to be fun. Let's all have a little Demetrius Johnson and the guys as we, as we continue to follow the sport.

And thank you again, everyone. And we will see you again in May. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.