MMA Fighting - Rankings Show: Who is most likely to be the next Pound-for-Pound king?

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

Islam Makhachev. Alex Pereira. Ilia Topuria. Any one of these incredible fighters is worthy of being called the best in the world. But who else belongs in the discussion? With the men’s Pound-for-Pound top-3 comfortably set for now, the MMA Fighting Crew looks ahead to 2025 to figure out if UFC champions Belal Muhammad, Dricus du Plessis, Tom Aspinall, or perhaps a surging contender can enter the conversation for the No. 1 spot in the near future. Host Alexander K. Lee is joined by esteemed rankings panelists Damon Martin, Jed Meshew, and E. Casey Leydon as we attempt to figure out who has the best chance of shaking up the P4P list. We also discuss the moves made in the wake of October’s two UFC events and PFL’s Battle of the Giants, including Khamzat Chimaev’s big jump, Kamaru Usman’s exit, and where the top of the heavyweight division stands with Francis Ngannou’s MMA return and Jon Jones about to fight Stipe Miocic this November. Follow Alexander K. Lee @AlexanderKLee Follow Damon Martin @DamonMartin Follow Jed Meshew @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I am your host, Alexander K. Lee. And we are here to talk about the hottest charts in all of sports, the M.A. fighting global rankings, the AMA Fighting Pound for Pound rankings, and a bunch of other topics that I feel like need to be touched upon that are like rankings adjacent. It was a hell of a month in October. We had two pay for you guys, U.S.C. 307, U.S. 3.0.

Eight, three-day reviews, excuse me, PFL, Battle of the Giants, Super Fight, Race for Impact, Inganu versus had whatever other name presented by Riyadh season. So a lot of movement, guys, a lot of movement on, again, pound for pound, men's, women's, divisions, top to bottom. It was eventful.

It was eventful. We saw some things we never thought we'd see. We saw some old friends returning to, it was a good time. And there was a lot of women here to go over some of these seismic changes, guys. that we have to witness in our business. First, I'd like to introduce one of my co-hosts,

delicious Damon Martin. That's a new nickname. I don't know that I really like delicious, but I'll, yeah, I'm here. You know, if the shoe fits, I say. Also, I was providing commenter for the rankings today. We've got juicy Jedmishu. I don't know what's happening right now.

I was not prepared for this to be the start of the day. And in the truck, as always, writing expert, experts reduction. Cumbly E. Casey Leiden. Look it up, people. Look it up. I thought you were going to go crispy, Casey Leiden, maybe. Great start.

I think so. Okay, are you, did you like not eat lunch today? I do feel a little lightheaded. Before we get to, before we get break it down to specific topics, we should go over some of the movement that people may see when they see the division's rankings post. I think by the time this show was out.

And if not, listen, we're giving you a quick recap. We'll have some fancy graphics up on the screen. Most of the first big movement, we had Hamza Shemayev jumping up 10 spots guys in the middleweight rankings. I don't know if we need to explain this. The only thing we need to explain is maybe why was he's so low in the first place. Obviously, play inactivity, a few inconsistent results, but he came

back in a big way after being off for a year. Disroys Robert Whitaker, there's really no nice way to put it. You guys saw the pictures. We don't need to go over those again. Our biggest mover of the month, Hamzat, by far. Kamar Usman is out of the rankings. You guys, some of our listeners and viewers may find that strange. He was number four at 170 pounds. And didn't he just fight? Like, you know, a year ago against Hamza in a middleweight bout. However, he has not been competing at 170 pounds. It's been, let's see, March 2020, Kamarro's last welterweight bout.

It actually doesn't have a win at 170 pounds since November 2021. So think about that. So that is our justification, you guys, when you see no Usman. Giuliana Pena back. I'm not sure what else needs to be said about that. She is the women's banditweight champion. Again, her first fight since July 2022.

Some of you may find it weird that she is not number one. So she goes from not ranked to number two at 135 pounds behind Kayla Harrison. You guys can debate that amongst yourselves. And some of our other bigger movers, Fluffy Hernandez reentering the middleweight ranks at number nine. Sounds like a crazy jump, but he was like hovering around the 15, 16, 17 spot. Strawweight Yasminu, Yacem, Lucindo, up seven spots, number seven after beating Marina Rodriguez. And Paul Hughes, Irish lightweight, Paul Hughes making a massive PFL debut win over A.J. McKee, and he is now our number 13 ranked, 155 or coming out of nowhere.

Very impressive. I'll also make note, Mara Bautista, big win, big split decision win, making his debut, I think he might have been around 15 before, but number 11, so reentering the charts of number 11, three spots behind the man that he won a decision against Joseoaldo. So I guess now off of that note, guys, I just want to ask, speak freely. Is there any of these moves Did they surprise you? Did they delight you? Did they upset you? Did we get any of these egregiously wrong?

I will just, I mean, we didn't get this wrong. I just want to say, Mario Batiste, you better watch out because the last man who took a bullshit robbery decision over Josaldo, he never won a fight again. His career cratered and he lost eight fights in a row or whatever the hell Marlon Mara

is his end of career look like. So look out, because that's, That's kind of where you're looking to be. That's why you're so low in our rankings, I guess. I did put him above Aldo because I respect the process. But my heart feels good that other people didn't do that. I mean, Marab also kind of won a shaky decision. He's doing okay.

No, Marab just fought without honor. The decision's not that bad, but he fought without honor, much like Mr. Batista did. Yeah, go ahead. To your point about Chamaeev, I mean, listen, he deserves it now. But as far as he being ranked lower before, I mean, his only real statement when a middleweight was over a welterweight and Kamar Usman on short notice. That's why he wasn't ranked. It's not that we didn't think he was good.

It's just his last win over like a good middleweight was Gerald. Gerald Mearschart like four years ago, whatever. And then Usman, who is a welterweight. So, yeah, that's why. He beat Ikramala Scareoff. Thank you very much. Like, that was before he's even. in the UFC though.

It was like five years ago. Yeah, so, but that's, I'm not, I'm not saying we need to justify it. I'm just saying like, really like, wow, that's a dramatic jump. That's why, because he didn't fight any middle weights. And so now you do what you did to Robert Whitaker, then you absolutely deserve that jump in the rankings. And I'm a little sadden that Julianna Payne is number two, but, you know, what can you do? I was going to ask you to comment, but she's number two. Like, I was going to ask you to comment, Damon, because.

She just snuck in at number two also. You almost made her number three. We should point out you did not agree with the Pennington-Pena decision. You are very publicly. I think people can look at your social media. You're not her, not Giuliana Pena's biggest cheerleader. I feel like you've poked some holes in her resume. Some might say, do you want to tell people where you ranked her

and why she's just hanging on to the number two spot despite being the UFC champion? I put her at number five. Wow. Number five. I had Kayla Harrison won Pennington 2, Holly Holm 3, Norma DeMont 4, Giuliana Pena 5.

My justification for that is that A, I didn't think she won the decision over Raquel Pennington and she doesn't have a single win over anyone else on the current active UOC roster. So it's hard for me to justify, listen, women's ban to weight is not good. So I can't keep her out of the rankings

because there's just not 15 names justifiable to keep above. her, but I don't think she beat Raquel Pittington and she doesn't have a single win over anyone else on the current active UFC roster. So it's hard for me to put her at number two based upon that. Do I think that she could beat Holly Holme number Dumont? Maybe. I don't know. But yeah, I don't think she deserves a higher ranking based on that particular performance.

The at is on the screen. You guys saw that at Damon Martin. For all the Venezuelan vix and villains out there, you know who to go after. There's dozens of them, Damon. There's dozens, and they are going to come after you for this spicy tick. Listen, listen, there you. If Julietana Pena meets Gail Harrison, which I am not predicting her to do, but if she does, I will absolutely rank her number one in the world.

But until that happens, you're staying in number five. Or potentially lower, depending on what happens behind you in the division. I didn't mean to move on from Shemayev talk so quickly. I mean, we love Julian Pena talk, obviously, but people will see on the graphic that there is five votes for Drickus Duplacey, the current champion. And there's one vote for one Mr. Hamsat Shemaiah. What the gentleman on our panel who did this like to raise their hand and just talk a little about Shamiya be number one. Who me? Simply put, if they fought head to head,

I'm picking Shimaev. Normally, I kind of give, you know, the champion, kind of the veteran, the person of like a, oh, wait, I'm seeing someone shake their head already at me. I don't know. If they've all had their head, I'll give it to Shmaya. And so, and since there's anyone else there, I don't know. He's just number, I have DDP at number two. It's not like I have him at three or four. I'm not treating him like Julia Pena.

But I just have Shemaya have one. I mean, I just think he's a better fighter. But, yeah, I don't know. Chim in, Jed. I mean, a couple of us have, a couple of us have Shavcott ranked above Bala. You know, I feel it's not too much different. Same vibes. Same vibes.

Yeah, same vibes. Yeah. I'm disgusting in you, Casey. One, you don't have Shavkat ranked above Balaal. And I don't come at me with that. And two, this is just. disrespect for Drickus duplice. That's all this is.

You're not doing this in other weight classes because I'm not opposed to doing this. That is the large guiding principle of my hand. I have Pennington. I have Pennington above Payne. But you're not doing this in other weight classes. You're doing it in the other weight classes where you don't respect the person who's the champion.

Because you don't respect Pena, so you're doing it with Pennington. Because you don't respect Drickis because he's weird. And so you're like, all right, he's the guy I'll disrespect. And I just want it to be known that still Knox is the king. And y'all are all haters. And everybody just does it. You know what?

You guys don't, you're doubting him. And we know what happens when everybody doubts him. And so this is for you, Casey, when he goes out here and he defends against Tom Zott. And it looks very silly because he's a very silly man. I want you to know that I told you so back in October. I just love that Jed has become, like, the number one DDP guy, I think. And I'm not saying you, and I'm not saying you like you, you know, anything wrong by changing your view because, I mean, I think a lot of us changed our view on

DDP's capabilities. But there was a time when you laugh, you were laughing at the prospect of DDP someday becoming UFC champion. You thought Robert Whitaker was going to annihilate him. You didn't want to see that fight because you thought it was going to interfere with a possible ISI, DDP thing. But, but again, and I'm not calling you up. And then I picked him to beat Whitaker.

So we're clear. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Eventually you did. Eventually you did. But it is amazing. It is amazing that I feel like you've had to tilt the other way because of how sort of skeptical you were at first with his championship.

No, just because he's just the funniest fighter. And everybody hates him because he is the funniest fighter. But that makes me love him. That he just like very clearly is bad at a lot of things. And it doesn't matter. It's really funny. And that's straight up, Casey. That's why this was a similarly accomplished fighter who didn't look the way he does when he wins fights.

You'd be like, okay, I mean, like, he beat Izzy, he beat Robert Whitaker. He beat who, I'm drawing blanks now. Darren Till is like, whatever. Derek Brunson. Derek Brunson. Like, he's finished all these dudes. Like, he's not just beating him. He's finishing all these dudes.

And if you just looked on paper and didn't actually watch the fights, you'd be like, I got to give it to what he's accomplished. But you can't help but watch his fights and be like, that just can't be the best middle weight in the world. It just can't be him. I need some like troll to make like a Dracus duplicacy like low lights package. Because I feel like if you took some of the worst. There's so many of them.

From his fight that he won, like fights that he won. But if you put them together and you watch it, you'd like, well, this guy is like, this guy's bad. Like there's no way this guy won this fight or there's no way this guy went on to become UFC champion, but it's like, no, he won these fights where he something looked like he was down or he was gasping or he was flailing. Let me tell you, not only did he become champion, he has wins over three of the top five middleweights right now.

Pretty good. Not including himself and now Hamzaa Tshma. Well, he may be part of this next section, guys, I want to talk about. Not directly, but let's get there. Before we jump off the middleweight, real quick, I have a quick. Wait, how are we? As a group, how are we handling Kamar Usman? Because he seems to be the most confusing.

Because I just realized, like, technically, I mean, he's still, and he's still within 18 months, right? He's not, he's not out, right? He is in 18 months of a middle, of a middleweight fight, yes, of a middleweight. But do, but do any of us have him ranked at middleweight? No. No. I just told me. I believe.

That's the thing is like, I, I know he's a top 15 middleway, and I realize I didn't rank him. Like, I would pick him beating Michelle Pereer. He did receive votes after that fight. I distinctly remember he appeared at least on one or two ballots. He was a fighter also receiving votes. So he was there. It's just that he hasn't fought since. And the middleweight division has actually moved quite a bit.

So he just kind of just got knocked off. Like he was on people's ballots for, I think, a couple of ranking cycles. It's not just that he hasn't fought. He has not won, AK, as you put it, since 2021. It's been a while. And his wins are Colby Covington, who also doesn't really, have meaningful wins at this stage of his career. Jorge Mosfodal, retired-ish and whatever.

Gilbert Burns still like a relatively meaningful Walter White win, though. It was certainly better at the time than it kind of counts as for being now. Then Mossvedo on Covington again. Like it's, he just hasn't, he's in that stage of his career where he's not fighting that much and he's going to pick his spots. And so I was comfortable just leaving him off until, until he just beat somebody, like, that is relevant to today's mixed martial arts. Yeah, Casey, I'm with you.

I would pick him to beat a number of middleweights, but he's, you know, he doesn't need to, he's made a lot of money. He's very successful. He doesn't need, I don't think he needs to get back in there. He's kind of a unique situation of him. But he could certainly be ranked at 15. I don't think that's controversial.

I'll say, I'll say this. If Camaro comes back and beats any ranked middleweight, and I think he's going to come back as a welterweight, but I'm just saying if he comes back to beats any ranked middleweight, I'll probably end up putting him top five or six because his performance against Chimayev looks that much better now from what Chimajib did to Whitaker because I don't care. He took it on 10 days notice.

He went up a weight class and he was, if that had gone five rounds, I 100% believe Camarro was footballed on that fight. Like he was winning late in the fight and Chimaya was wasted. He was so burnt and Camar just couldn't put him away. He got a majority of decision. So all I need Kumar to do is if he's going to do middleweight, get one win and you'll probably be in my top five or six.

Not kidding. I would really like him all over to fight Robert Whitaker, but I don't think that can happen now. I know. That's a dream fight. It just makes so much sense. It makes so much sense for both them. I want to move on to pound for pound talk, guys. It's cooking, man.

I was going to say this division, but this list, this chart is so compelling right now. Jed, as I think you put on the post-fight show, it's kind of fun to just put number one, whichever guy you just saw last put on an amazing performance, right? Like, it sounds flipping, but also when it's this close, like the margins are this small, it's like, yeah, you could say Machachov's number one. You could say Pareth as number one. You can say Deporettar as number one. So we got a bit of a mix here. I don't know if we have anyone.

Oh, we do. Oh, we don't have. Okay. So we have on our chart, four people have Machajadadad number one. One has Alas Padetana number one. One has Toporia number one. I will say the Alex Perevote is not here. That is our own Guillermo Cruz, obviously Brazilian bias, but, you know, you can't argue too much against it.

Damon, you and I have Makachev, Casey, you have Makachev, Jed, you have Ilya. So let's talk about it. I know we've already talked about post-fight show and all this stuff, but, you know, we're a few days removed from the event. We've had some room to breathe. Who's number one? Damon, who's number one and why? I still have Islam rank number one, although I don't, I have actually weirdly less of an

issue with Jed having Ilya number one than I do with Alex number one right now, just because of level of competition. Same reason I think Ilya is already locked up fighter of the year because when you knock out Alexander Volcanowski and Max Holloway in the same year, you deserve all the flowers. So I have less of an issue with him. But Islam to me is still number one because just longevity. He's been doing it longer and he's just on this incredible win streak.

And I mean, somehow he lost a round or whatever to Dusty Poirier. But I mean, the guy just, he goes out there and absolutely malls everybody. And yes, I know he had a couple of tough rounds with Volcanov. but he all, you know, he still ultimately won that fight. And at that point, Volkanovsky was number two pound for pound of the world or number one pound for pound in the world or whatever it was. So I still put Islam mostly based upon longevity and how long his streak has been going. And again, it's not like he's been beating bums. I mean, I know Dana loves to say that, oh, he beat a smaller guy.

That's not how this works. You beat a guy who's good. He went up and wait. I don't think Volcanowski would sit there and say, man, I was a sucky lightweight. Like, he went up and took a shot. He had a great fight against the number of. one guy in the world and he took him to the distance. And then obviously he took the rematch on short notice and got head kicked out of the building.

So Islam's still my pick based on that. Again, he's beating good guys. He's dominating what he did to Charles Olivera, so on and so forth, what he did to Dustin Porier. And he's just been doing on this incredibly long streak since he lost to, who wasn't Lucas Martines or whatever, like nine years ago. So yeah, that to me is still there. But I see an argument for Ilya, just not quite yet.

I wouldn't put him there yet. Yeah, Ilya and Islam, obviously, both in maybe the two best divisions to Allah and May. Again, you told Bantam wait in there, too. But, you know, it's what gives them a case over Perra, certainly. But Perra has been such a popular choice for pound for pound, either number one or number two most of the year. And here comes Toporia. Casey, you moved Toporia up to number two. How close were you?

How close were you to maybe unseeding Machiceb? Or was it no way? It was no way who's going to be normal. I just think it was just too much of a jump for him to go from what I have him at before probably like somewhere in the top 10 the back half's top 10 so he had a big jump and I was just Tupro's freaking awesome and if if we had a one A and one B for pound for pound king right now I would have no issue given to Islam and Tuporia but I pretty much agree with what Damon said But since they're so kind of close, I kind of went with just the guy of the longer,

better resume. And Tripory will probably achieve that same sort of status on his resume soon as just take a little time. But dude, number two, that's a heck of accomplishment from going from number, I think number 10 on my list, number two. So, but Islam's still number one for me. When Holiday Prep means cleaning every corner, reach for Pine Soul Original Pine. Pine sole is the only one you need for multiple surfaces,

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Instacard, groceries that over deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. Jed, you pulled the trigger. You said Ilya, number one, let's effing do this. Go ahead. I mean, again, you've had a chance to talk about this a bit, but let's elaborate further. Let's go, how is he over prayer and how is he over Makachev and whoever else in contention? So I don't have any issues with any of those three.

It's honestly like the boxing pound for pound debate right now. There are three men that have separated themselves out in boxing and Ussick, in a way, and Bud Crawford. And basically, however you want to mix and match those three is personal preference and taste, that's fine. I think it's exactly the same here. I do, I think it is only those three men who, of Pereira, Ilya, and Islam, and kind of however you want to go.

I opted to go with Tupere for a couple of reasons. One, because I am of the opinion that pound for pound can be more fluid than I think most people are, where to me it should be more a reflection of, like, recency bias in some extent.

Not like, oh, this guy just won, but like, hey, are there several fighters who are dominant champions, or have unbelievable things, okay, they can kind of pass this off between each other as one is competing more often. And Islam Makachev is my number two because of the long tenure of his career

and where he has been. His dominance at this point over division is, I'll get to that in a second. I gun to my head. I think Alex Pereira is pretty clearly beneath Islam and Ilya for me, both because light heavyweight is a, just a much worse division than lightweight and featherweight or. And he got knocked out last year.

Like I know that we don't talk about that because it's not who cares. Like he, you know, he went up to light heavyweight and look what he's doing. He got knocked out within like the past 18 months or whatever. And it's an incredible accomplishment to then rebound from that to do what he has done. But again, if we are parsing between very good resumes,

the strength of schedule is not the same. It's God love Jan Belhovic. He ain't nearly the quality of fighter as like Josh Emmett, despite being a former champion. Like, Yeri Pajka, I love Yeri Pajka like my own child. And it is clear to me that he is just stylistically crypted against Alex prayer. He's just going to get booped every time.

Cleo Roundtree, fun story. It was an exciting fight. Come on, man. We don't have to pretend that that is one of the best fight, like best things on his resume. That's one of the worst wins on Pereira's resume at this point in time. And Jamal Hill is this sort of outlier who maybe is good, but also maybe just had one really good night,

and things broke very well for him against Clover Tresera. When you look at that, I think Pereira really falls short of Makachev and Tuporia, but if you want to credit him for being a former middleweight champion, you know, being on this hell of run, I won't push back. I just don't agree. To me, the difference between Makachev and Tupuria for this vote, and if Makachev goes and defends his title in January, as the kind of rumors are against Armand Sruccian, it is the recency of what has happened. Because the totality of their resume, sure, give me Machachev at this point in time. within the past 18 months or two years, whatever the timeline you kind of want to go with.

Ilya Dupori has knocked out two of, by my estimation, the 10 or 15 best fighters ever, ever. Max Holloway got knocked out for the first time ever, a thing that I truly didn't think could happen. And maybe if he just wins a decision, maybe that's not enough. But knocking out Max Holloway, that gets you a little extra spice,

a little extra sauce on there, boys. And Islam, again, there has been no higher proponent of Islam Markachev than I have. His lightweight title run is good, but weird. And I think we can all acknowledge it. The Volk fight the first one, okay, timing. That's still a featherweight. Yes, he fought a lightweight. Yes, he'd be a good lightweight.

Wooden could ain't it. Like he was the featherweight champion that's not quite the same. The rematch, odd circumstances, that is even less meaningful than the first one. And then we all love Dustin Porriere. Dustin Pore, still one of the five best lightweights in the world. Still weird circumstances. These are not iron-clad title defenses. You can poke holes in these in a way that you cannot with what Tepuria has done.

And so because of that, because the dominant performance is because he finished two dudes who have never been finished in this weight class and are all-time great fighters, I think that's enough to give him the number one spot. And it's not a big jump for me either. I previously had him at number three. I bumped him back as other people got wins and I was trying to keep things fluid. But I said this on our post show

and I've thought about this a lot and I'd love y'all's opinion if you have it here. I am not sure that there has ever in the history of this sport been a better two-fight series of wins. not a better run or a better year, back to back wins than what Ilya Tuporia has done this year. Because Alexander Vorgonovsky and Max Holloway, I will put that up there against any other two-fight stretch

in the history of the sport. Yeah, knocking out two Hall of Famers, and they're still relative primes in championship fights. And not just knocking them out, with relative ease. Yes, he lost rounds, but those fights were like, you go rewatch them.

It is not, that was a war. It was time was ticking until he lowered the boom. It is as impressive a two-fight stretch as you will ever find. And that was enough just to give him. Like I said,

Islam goes and defends his belt against Armand-sur-Rukin, that's an unbelievable win. And he'll probably jump back to the top spot. for now, give it to you. I think Jed makes really great arguments. I just don't want to punish Islam, I guess,

by bumping him from a one based on price fighting, essentially, based on he just took the biggest fights that the UFC gave him. And I don't want to punish him for that. But I do admit that, yeah, the title run is odd. It's been a little wonky. But that's just kind of the way the 55 division is, and the way the UFC wants to. book title fights.

So I don't want to punish him for that, but I think Jed makes great points, actually. I've never heard you say that about Jed so many times. That was amazing. I'm just looking at like some of the, you know, great champions. I'll edit this part out. Don't worry. Please.

GSP has like BJ Penn and Matt Hughes back to back, but this is the first Penn win, which was, you know, not a dominant performance by BSP to put it nicely. And Matthews also sucks. So, I mean, you know, again, maybe not the best. But at the time, at the time, a pretty incredible. I didn't think GSP won that first pin fight. A lot of people would agree with you.

A lot of people would agree with you. And I refuse to review that fight for a rubber review. I won't do it. There is one out there because there was a little bit of discussion on Twitter about this. And the one that I, it's different just because of the eras. Coincidentally, it is BJ. BJ beating Gomi into Matt Hughes at the time. That was like the numbers won.

and two pound for pound fighters in the sport or like very high up on the pound for pound list that's a really good one but like that's not the same as that that's that's a bygone era versus current modern mama so i'm looking at like fador he never really fought too like amazing amazing heavyweight heavyweights back to back like you fought a lot of great heavyweights in a short period of time rarely back to back because well because probably was so crazy back then you could go from fighting for, I'm looking right, I was just about to say off the top of my head, you go for fighting Crow Cop and your next fight, you fight, you fight Zulu. And it's like, you know what?

I love Zulu, but it's not a very strange two-fight pairing. Max and Volcanowski is pretty good. Yeah, the timing has to be great. And the positions of the divisions have to be really set up perfectly. And Topprio is just, yeah, just the timing is perfect for him to where he is in his career. And we're actually where Max and Volk were in their career. so I can't I can't I can't I can't I cannot think of a better two-fight stretch I mean I mean John John Jones being Vitor and Chilsana back to back is pretty damn impressive guys go on now I was so weird now I was looking at Jones because like Jones record he's beating like so many great champions but they're just like nothing in a streak of that like not in like a two-fight streak like that like not in that you know beating beating shogun beating rampage beating machita beating rashad all those are great wins but just nothing back

The totality of that is amazing. Yeah, but like Jones too. Yeah, Jones is the one like totality-wise. He has like a ridiculous resume, which is why I called him the greatest of all time. But yeah, just not that too. I mean, that's like we were, when I did the podcast with Matt Brown, he's like the reason why he has, uh, the reason why he said that, uh, Tupori has locked up fight of the

years because as good as Alex has been in three fights, he didn't do it against Max Holloway and Alexander Mokinowski. And I was like, yeah, you're absolutely right. like I was super impressed by knocking out three guys in basically six months. He did that between April and October. That is incredibly impressive. But I like Jamal Hill. I like Yuri.

I like Khalil. That's not Alexander Volcanowski and Max Holloway. So yeah, like, yeah, two-fight streak, I don't think it's matched. I can't think of anything up top of my head. I do like the BJ Penwin, but even that, I would still argue. Like, because I like Go-Me, but maybe there's a little bit of revisionist history on Go-Me now. But yeah, I think that I think Toporia beating Max and Alex back to back and knocking them both out is ridiculous. Here are the ones that I'm open to a conversation, though I don't think there.

And it's Anderson, like it's going to be the guys you would think, right? Anderson, Rich Franklin, Dan Henderson back to back. That's a pretty good one. It's the second Rich Franklin. If he hadn't already annihilated Franklin, like, you lose a little bit just because it was the exact same demolition. If you're doing John, I think it has to be Shogun Rampage. But like, I was, I was a fan during that. And I remember Shogun like, yes, he won the belt.

No one was convinced we were in for a long Shogun's brain. Like, he had the, like, he had just gotten weird at that point, particularly coming over from pride. Aldo is the one that I would argue has the, is, is there. And it's Chad Frankie one. So the Chad Mendez-K-O knockout. and Frankie Edgar, like, that's a really good stretch, but it ain't Max and Alex, you know, like. Chad Frankie is a solid second choice.

Yeah. To actually, I feel like Chad Mendes would have been a Hall of Fame or if he just didn't have auto existing. Yeah. Yeah. So it kind of sucks because Chad Mendes kind of never reached this full. price-fine potential because he came around when auto's around but yeah auto yeah i agree mendoz he's a really good choice especially well he went the decision right with egger he did that was but he

i mean that was not a competitive decision uh here's another one casey and this is a throwback to not you but you and me uh and it's obviously a little different it's max holloway beating josialdo twice in a year that is also because that's the great because that's the great greatest featherweight of all time. He dusted him up twice in a year. But like, this is just, it's an, there's not a lot of precedent to what has happened this year. I just want to add, add my favorite, uh, So could you beating Little Nog and Arona back to back. People, nowhere near the top of like the most, like, but like as, like, this is a classic. And so could you's not going to get his own damn. They were a good episode. But like, this is a classic in the moment.

And this is, by the way, I was, this is when I was like sort of just, uh, getting into, my like, I may fandom. Like, I miss the Mosul Pride era. Like, as it happened, I've gone back, of course, to catch up. But this was when I was getting into UFC and Emma a lot. And, like, this, when these two knockouts happened, everyone was talking about it. They hyped him up so much in the UFC debut. Like, this is the guy, like, holy crap.

He just destroyed two of Pride's best fighters, like, both of them under a minute. He's the next dude. And then the first guy he fights in the UFC is Leona Machita. Yeah. And nobody knew, nobody knew how good Leoomachita was, actually. No, no one knew. Because I was actually I was actually friends with the people that managed

Sokid you at the time And they were just like Why didn't no one tell us how good he was? No one knew like we saw footage of him He didn't know how good he was Yeah, all he had do is watch the Rich Franklin fight When Machita wrecked Rich Franklin over in Japan Like that was that should have been the clue

Because Machita was that new deal Although it's not a two-fight streak But man, talking about four fights Like Shogun going through Rampage Little Knobes Alistair and Arona. Like, I don't know if Rampage and Little Nogger is good because at that point maybe, but, man, that, that streak that Shogun had in pride was pretty damn impressive.

Amazing. Yeah. Yeah, the, the Shogun, what year was the final conflict? Is that 05? 06. 05, yeah, 05. 05. That year is unbelievable.

John's, uh, John's, whatever, 2011 is unbelievable. I, honestly, I just think that to, per his year doesn't have the same volume it's only two fights put it put it put it right up there man like this is one is one of the most impressive years i have ever watched of this sport you're gonna i'm gonna have to like i'm gonna do i'm just i'm not trying to beat it i'm just like try now i'm just racking my brain dude i try i spent some time it was like i it is a hard ass that's a that's a really good that's a really good question i'm like i because i i you're probably right you're absolutely probably right. I'm just like thinking about Huck, like,

because it's never like, I was thinking when you said Aldo, I was like, Connor knocking out Aldo, but then he had this stupid Nate Diaz thing in the middle before he beat Eddie Alvarez. So it's like he doesn't want back to back. Like those were, you know, so it's like, yeah, doing it two in a row is. So yeah, it's, man, I'm going to have to think about it. I thought about Shogun. That was the best one I could, I could come up with. Yeah, the show, I mean, the Shogun O5 run, any of those is, that's a good argument. You can make a case for Rampage, Nog.

Overee Marona, and however you want to split that. I was, I do want to throw out, not if you're going to hate this, Amanda Nunes, I think like Rousy, I was, I was about, I was about the second, I was literally about Mitch Amanda,

Rousey. Like, I know the Shepchenko fight, very close fight, you could absolutely, a terrible fight also, by the way, horrible to rewatch. I always tell people, people always tell me like,

like, oh, as a robbery, and I'm like, you know, maybe it was, I don't care. I've only rewatched it once to do a robbery review. I never want to watch it again. It's a terrible fight. But just from name value,

And I also think Ronda Rousey is much better than people still give her credit for. Like retroactively, it's very easy to say like, oh, she was all hype and she sucked. I think like she actually was really good in her time. So name value and like legacy wise, having Rousey Shepchenko back to back is pretty crazy. But I mean, I would actually argue that that is not the one to go with for Nunes. I would say Cyborg Holly Holm back to back. I was just getting right to say the same thing. And more convincing.

Yeah. Yeah. Dominant finishes as opposed to the shift. Chichanko thing. Like if she had knocked out Chichenko, that one is so significant. But because she kind of didn't win it, you would convince me also that Tate to Rousey, as opposed to Roussey to Shepenko's. Misha Tate is a historically significant female fighter. Yeah. Nunez's run is crazy.

New Nunes is run. Two all of famers in the relative prime and championship fights. Yeah. So, yeah, I think Rousie has actually, I think we should have Rousie in that conversation, too, as far as two fight amazing runs. Gentlemen, gentlemen, as much as I love to look back with you guys and reminisce you guys, we need to look ahead a little bit here because as great as Makachev, Perreira and Toporria are, we got some names coming up on them. We got some names coming up.

So I want to ask you guys, looking ahead to pretty, we've got to say 2025. I mean, you can't say 2023 that I'd be looking back. So looking ahead to the year that's coming because that's how time works. Guys, who's going to break into this? That is that time works. I really should have eaten something today. I really should be it something. That time works.

Who breaks, guys. Who breaks to the conversation next for potentially for number one? We got, and I'm only throwing three names out there. I'm sure there could be others, especially again if some of the people who have title fights books knock off the champion. But duplice, Balaamah, Tom Aspinall, three current champions, only one of which has a fight actually booked, one of which we think we know who they're going to fight next, one of which

is pretty much a wild card as to who his title defense could be against. So, Damon, I will throw to you first. Duplice, Muhammad Ospinal, who has the best chance, not just of being number one, but of having us talk about it like, you know, he's got a case. Well, I said this on my

podcast, and I'll say it here, the only guy who could crack that fighter of the year argument this year, and I'm not saying he's going to beat. I'm just saying you put him in the conversation, is if Bala Muhammad beat Shabat, beating Leon and Shavkat in the same year is pretty damn impressive. I don't think it's better than Teporia doing what he did to Max and Holloway. But I'm just saying that. So, Bilal's the answer because he's on a huge win streak, hasn't been beaten, whatever it is, like 10, 11

fights, actually has wins over good contenders. He took out Vicente Lucke when he was still a top five or six guy, took out Gilbert Burns when he was the top three or four guy, going out and dominating Leon Edwards the way he did. If he pulls off the upset, I know everyone, it's going to be an upset to beat Shavkat because he is the underdog. If he can go out and beat Shabkat Rehmanov, I don't want to hear. I know it's going to happen, but I don't want to hear while Shafkat wasn't as good as we thought he was. Stop, okay, Shavkat is a monster. If he goes out and beat Shavkat Rechmanov, he's in that conversation.

I don't think he, because Balao, what hurts Bilau is that he goes to a lot of decisions. If he was wrecking people the way that Pereira does or the way that Teporia does, I think we'd have a much different conversation. But I think if you go out and beat Leon Edwards and Shavkat in the same year, and you've got this, like at that point, I think it would be a 12-fight unbeaten streak or 13-fight unbeaten streak, you've got to get in that conversation.

If he does to Shavkat, what he did to Leon, I will be very curious what the fan reaction will be, because I guarantee if you ask anyone, most people right now, they would not put Balal anywhere near. I'm judging, by the way, based on, like, social media reaction and stuff, because we put up, you know, we put the rankings all over the place, and I'm always seeing comments, why is Belaw in the top five?

Why is Belal near the top five? like, oh, people are just very down on him. For a lot of the reasons you said, Casey, they want to see finishes. They want that signature moment. They want that big finish. He finished Sean Brady. I think that's the only recent finish he has. They don't like the decisions.

But again, his win over Leon was dominant. It was nothing short of dominant. So I agree with you. I think he's closer to a number one talk than we think. But I do think it would have to be a dominant performance against Shabot. What if Tom Aspinall somehow gets that John Jones fight? If he beats John Jones, is he, is he, is he, uh, would you throw him, would he just fly all the way to number one, Jed? What do you say? I mean, in my heart, if he's the guy who beats John Jones, you'd be there.

Maybe I'm very high on Tom Asperon. I've had him ranked very high. I was excited for this segment because I got a big bone to pick with you about the list of fighters and profit here. Okay. Because I think they're all wrong. I think the entire list of people, you just gave DDP Asperall Blal, right? If Ballal wins, credit to him. He deserves to kind of be,

I can't bring myself to say in the conversation because the manner of his wins. Yes, he is winning and sometimes dominant, but like, you got to finish somebody. You got to finish a person to kind of ascend. when the margins are this small, when the competition is so fierce in this discussion, if you want to be credible in there, you got to finish someone. So honestly, based on how they fight, I think it is far more likely that Shavkat

Rachmanov should he win is a guy who kind of inserts himself into this 19 or 20 and all finishes, finishing good competition, puts him in there. I will also notice that you left off Marab Valyh. The same corollary as Belal applies for me, but if we're going to credit Belal for doing things, if Marab fights Umar and beats Umar, that is as good a resume as anybody else, removing the finishing aspect of it.

I mean, that dude has years unbeaten, monstrously good wins. you got to put him in there if we're going to be putting below. But the one, the one that bothers me, A.K., the one that really gets my goat. Steepa. This isn't your fault, AK, because this is every, bring me back to the big screen, Casey, because I am going to sit right here. And Casey, I'm actually looking at this.

You're safe. Oh, good. Okay. But you're accused to everybody else for the disrespect to Alejandro Pantosia. I do not know what this man needs to do to get the love and respect he deserves other than way more than 125 pounds. He has nine wins in total over ranked fighters in our rankings. Nobody else has close to that. He has three wins over the number four guy that many people think should still be the number two guy.

He has two wins over the number two guy. He's beaten the number 10, the number 11. Like, I do not know what you want from Pantosia other than be heavier because all he has done is beat top dude after top dude. And sure the Steve Ursaig was tough. Like, that's his number 10 or whatever. Nobody really seems to be counting Alex Pereira out for him fighting like the number 14 dude. We got to start putting respect on Pants's name because his run right now is, is, is, is, just not as good as anybody else without adding another title defense,

whoever, not even whoever, he's got Kai Asakura coming up. Like, he beats Kai Asakura in December. The man needs to be number three or four on people's lists. Like, he deserves that. Listen, Jed, I agree. I wholeheartedly agree. But let's point, if he beats Kai Asakura, you will make, we know Kai Asakura is great.

There are very few people who will be convinced that that win moves, Potosia up in the pound-prone rankings. It will be a very hard argument. Haders. That's fine. That's fine. But like, you have him at four. I would be surprised if he dominates Kaiskai's Currie.

If you put him higher than Pereira, Macachever-Therberra. I just don't think he would do it. I won't put him number one, but he'll be in the talk. You'd put him above Pereira. I might. I got my. Because you're talking a big game here. You're talking a big game here.

I'm going to respect that his name. I mean, he has to pass one of these people that. It's really going to depend how the fight goes. If it's nip-tuck, no. But if he. But if he dominates. Renses him? He's probably getting my number three spot.

I will hold you to this. You'll have Prera number four. Well, oh, Damme, I got to refute all of Jets' points here first because he called me out specifically, David. I'm sorry, he called me out specifically. You have him number four. So you will bump down Alex Pereira to number four. Good luck explaining that to America because, again, most people will have him either one or two. So you will have him number four, I'm just saying.

You be ready. We'll be ready for that. Light heavy weights a bad weight class. I'm sorry. This is true. And I agree. Like that's a garbage division. That's why I'm at five.

I like the cases for Umar and Shavkat, excuse me. You have Shafkat at 11 right now. So that would be a monster jump to number. And only Bilal, you only have at seven at eight, excuse me. So that'd be a monster. He beats the number eight pound for pound guy and you make him like top three off of that. That's a huge jump. You could.

And Umar. If Shavkat finishes Belal, he is going to be in my top three for sure. You don't even have ranked. You don't even have in your pound for pound. So you would take Umar from unranked, beating your number nine pound for pound guy. And if he beats him, he would be in the top of the three. That's an oversight in my pound for pounds. All right.

I'm just saying. That's all I have to say. We do these. We do these relatively quickly, particularly after this past weekend, which was incredibly busy. And that's a firm oversight on my part. You can, you know what? You can correct it soon.

I mean, we have a pay for you coming up in like two weeks. Damon, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to stop you, please. I just want to poke a couple holes in your, in your Pantosha thing here, because Pantosia's on a six-fight win streak. His last loss was in 2020, so four years ago, against Ascar-Ascaroff. Now, I'm only comparing this to your argument against Balao-Mohama'am, because you're saying Balao just, you know, decisions and you're not good,

I mean, you have Balao much lower. Monell-Copp is a good win. I agree, but I don't know that Menel-Copp is the guy we thought he was. I think, you know, he's dropped a lot recently. Brandon Royval, obviously those two wins are good. But again, two wins over the same guy. Alex Perez, I think we've all kind of figured out it's not really that dude.

He had a couple good fights in a row and he just never really developed. Steve Ursaig, yeah, close fight. We've also seen since then, Steve Versaig didn't do so well. I'm not saying Pantoja isn't good. I think he's very good. But I think you can poke holes

in that six-fight win streak a lot easier than you can poke holes in Bilal Mohammed's 12-fight unbeaten streak. Because I think Bilal has better wins when you look at Gilbert-Bur, when you look at Vicente Lucay, when you look at Leon Edwards, when you look at the fights he's taken,

I would say Bilau has a much stronger argument to be higher on that list than Alashondi Pantoja. I've always argued my biggest argument of all time when I argued against Demetri's Johnson as one of the greatest of all time is that Flyway just isn't as deep, and it hasn't been as deep. And I wish we'd gotten to see

maybe a rematch with Figurato, but Figurato beat him early on. And obviously, you know, and again, the Askerov, the Ascroft loss is out there. But I'm just saying you're, you got Balau-Mohamed rank much lower. Bilal-Mahemus, in my opinion,

is much better than Alessandra Bantosia's. And when you look at, yes, he has submission wins over Perez, Hogan, I don't think is a top guy, and he has a submission win over Brenner-Roy-Vall. That's a good win, that is. But I think knocking out Sean Brady is as good, if not

better of a win. Because I think Sean Brady is a beast, and he knocked him out. So, I'm just saying, saying you're building up Pantosia on a six-fight win streak and a loss to Ascar Ascarov versus Bilal Mohammed who's on a 12 or 13 five hasn't been beaten in like seven years and to me has more quality wins. So I'm just saying like I'm not trying to tear down Pantosia. I'm just saying like comparatively, Balaamah has a much better resume. This is just where we disagree because I and again it's because you're all weight bullies.

You were all opposed to small men and think. that they can't be good fighters because they're very small people. And I'm not, I'm an inclusive kind of guy. But I got to tell you, beating the desiccated husk of Wonderboy doesn't do much for me. Beating Jacente Luque at this point. Hold on. Hold on. God respect Gilbert Burns.

You're all not good anymore. Hold on. The desiccated, the husk of Stephen Wonderboy Thompson, I'm pretty sure Below beat him in 2021. Your boy Shabkat just beat him last year. And that's the fight that's getting him the title shot. That's your, but your guy Shabok. The guy you say will be number three ranked in power. I have.

If Sharf cut beats Ballal, yes. He's not there now. But I'm saying you're mocked. Also, I don't, I am laying on Wonderboy for three rounds. I'm not mocking killing Wonder Boy. Because that's what you do to desiccated Hus.

You stomp them out. You don't hold them down. You got to finish somebody. I don't know how he finished Sean Brady. I remember it happening and being like, maybe this is a new ball. and it's not a new ball. And he's going to keep getting docked

until he learns to be a violent person instead of a very, very, very good fighter alone. You got to be violent. Pantosia's wins. I, like, when you said, straight up, like, this is the crux of the argument. When you said, you think Sean Brady win his equivalent

to Brenner of all, I had a physical reaction. I was like, I don't think that's true at all. And I got respect for Sean Brady. I think Sean Brady is a good fighter. I don't think they are remotely the same level of quality. because I think Brenner Revol is a very, very, very good fighter.

I think Brenner Revol is a very good fighter. I'm just saying, but I'm also looking at the overall, the overall resume. Again, we're talking about a 12 or 13 fight win streak versus six in a row. And again, you want to say like, you want to look at six in a row. I'm saying Pentosia's six in a row are impressive, but you also got to take into account if you're looking backwards and it's four years ago. It's not 10 years ago. It's four years ago.

He got worked by Ascar Ascro, who isn't even in the UFC anymore. That can't not count for something. That can't just like, that can't not matter when you look at who Bilau is beaten over the last 12 fights and who he's, who he's got wins with and dominating. I understand he's not finishing everybody, but it's not like any of those fights were close. It's not like he went to a split decision with Stephen Thompson. He dominated Stephen Thompson for three rounds, yes. And that was Stephen Thompson four years ago when Stephen Thompson was still higher ranked in the division. I'm just saying, if you're missing the point, Damon.

He's boring. And I'm not going to respect you best results. I'm a little disappointed. You both made great arguments. I don't mean to take a side, but I'm a little disappointed that you're disregarding the words of a great man, maybe the greatest man who ever lived. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or mile winning is winning. So, I mean, that's a strong case for football.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The Dominic Tureto clause is, you got me there. I'm not taking time. And Ascar, I'm not wrong. I admit it. I've been defeated.

Don't, yeah, don't. That's not why I said that. Asker, Ascar, not being in the UFC, isn't a fall of Pantosia. Asker should be in the UFC. He's just, doesn't move the needle. There's no reason he's not in the UFC. He just doesn't, doesn't. Isn't he like the ACA champ now or something like that?

Yeah, yeah. He's 15-0-1. Yeah, he's only. Yeah, I haven't right. Casey, I want to go to you real quick. Six months from now, again, could deeply see Muhammad, Ospinall, or any of their challengers, are we talking about one of one or, again, let's say this time next summer. Why even asking Casey?

Don't ask Casey about Drickus. He'll never respect Drickus. Neither will I, apparently. I have pretty low as well. But Casey, one of those names, really, pick any of those names. But are we still talking, or are we still going to be talking about Makachov, DePoria, Pantoja, Pereira? Is there going to be, are any of those other guys going to jump in there?

It's going to be Shafcott. Oh, wow. Yeah. If Shafcott rolls through Bala, then, yeah, his, his, his streak of dominance, not just W's, but dominance. Dominance. Well, could, if he rolls through Belong, just dominates and finishes it bylaw within, say, two rounds, doesn't really take any damage, I could easily see myself bumping him to number,

bumping him to three and pushing down Pintosia to number four. Damn. Well, I'll go to a second. Yeah, well, I'll go in a second. I just want to say, Casey is putting his money where his mouth is. He has shop cut currently. the highest on our pound-for-pound ballots. He has shop-cut number nine right now,

one spot behind Belal. So, I mean, he ain't blowing smoke. He does pushing the shop-cut agenda. Welcome aboard Air Canada. Rocky's vacation, here we come. Whoa, is this economy? Free beer, wine, and snacks. Sweet.

Fast-free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land. And with live TV, I'm not missing the game. It's kind of like I'm already on vacation. Nice. Air Canada. Nice travels. Wi-Fi available to AeroPine members on equip flights.

Sponsored by Bell. Conditions Apply. See Air Canada.com. You know what's better than the one big thing? Two big things. Exactly. The new iPhone 17 Pro on TELUS is five-year rate plan price lock. Yep, it's the most powerful iPhone ever, plus more peace of mind with your bill over five years. This is big.

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro at tellus.com slash iPhone 17 Pro on select plans. Conditions and exclusions apply. Apologies, everyone. If there's a little bit of an abrupt cut there, maybe a mid-discussion cut, we'll have that sorted out. Our own Jed Mishu was betrayed by the power in his home. Hopefully we'll get him back. But as it is, we will carry on, guys. We'll carry on.

We were sort of just talking about Casey, because I do, I guess you get to have the final word on this. He was wondering, you know, you're not. You and I actually both have DDP a little low, probably a little too low, because we both think middleweight sucks. And even though DDP, yes, has beaten the top guys at middleweight, no question. Great runs. Sean Strickland, Adesanya, Barb Whitaker, just because I don't think the division is that strong. I have him 12. You have him 15.

I know people will think we're crazy. But yes, I think he was questioning if he beats Shemaya of an impressive way. Let's say he loses the first round, but then outlasts him either wins a dominant decision or finishes Shemayev. Will that be enough for you, Casey, to put him, you know, jump him way up into the top 10, possibly closer to the top five? If he loses rounds against Shemayev but yet still gets to win, he'll be pretty much in the same spot. I put a lot in the pound for pound rankings, I just put a lot more weight in the smaller guys. Wait and small, yeah. No pun intended.

but if he can beat Shemayev in a way where he just completely dominates outclasses him I will that will move him up possibly into the top 10 but after that I can't see anymore I'll definitely put him in the top 10 it's just DDP has just lost too many rounds previously to and that's why I have guys like Islam and Joporri is so high because not just the wins not just the violence it's just a dominance to get to those wins too. Listen, winning, winning. Winning is winning. Damon, I'll have the last. Winning is winning in terms of championships and getting your W.

But we're talking about rankings. That's a little different for me. Damon, I'll let you have the last word on this segment. Because while still talking about DDP, and you can touch upon any other contenders you want. But if, let's say, Shopkat beats Bilal and then Duplice goes on to beat Shemayev, will you vault duplicy over both those welterweights and have him, you know, somewhere in the top five? yeah i absolutely would um i like i think shab oh you already have him five you already sorry i should say you already have him five you have yeah you already i already have i already have dracus higher um and actually i just realized

i had a mistake on mine because i had pentosia above barab and i shouldn't do that i'd actually have pentosia lower so there's another knock on on jed and he's not here right now um yeah i would and listen here's the thing like i think shabkat beating belat would be super impressive but i still have, I still have questions about Shabkat's overall resume. Like I'm like I understand why he's getting the title shot, but I'm still not like in love with it only because like his only real big top 10 win is Wonderboy and I don't know that Wonderboy is that dude anymore. Jeff Neal, that win looks better. But again, I just I'm not I'm not saying. By the way, I'm on Shavka. I think he's a monster. I just think the overall resume isn't there quite yet. Like when you look at

what Balau has done in the top 10 guys he has. If you just look at Gilbert Burns, Vicente Luque, and Sean Brady, those are more impressive than any win that Shavkat has right now in terms of like name value. But Dracus has Israel. He has

Whitaker and he has finishes over both of them. If he goes out and finishes Jamaya, absolutely, that guy is, at that point, you know, he's in that argument at top four. Again, and obviously we can't predict how things are going to play out for Makachev, Pereira, and Toporia. I mean, who knows? Like I said, maybe

Armin Sarukin pulls off the upset or maybe, you know, Aikolayev gets the title shot and actually beats Pereira, and all this is a moot point. But I think at that point, Duplice definitely deserves that conversation of that top tier 4. I mean, I have him 5 right now, so I don't think it would be that big of a stretch to jump

him to 3 or 4, depending on what happens. Man, I would love to talk about Aspinall getting that Jones fight, but I guess it's too remote. I don't know. Because I also have Aspinall, maybe a little too low, But if you guys had Jones fight wins? Anyway, people let us know, let us know in the comments. Let me get that Jones fight.

He's not going to get that steep A fight? It's her steep A beats John. What are you talking about? You know, I'm just throwing out random stuff here, you know? You're right. You act like it's a foregone conclusion. What's going on? Listen, so many possibilities.

All right, guys, let's just, we'll close out the show here with a follow-up to a segment we had on our most recent episode of the Rankings podcast. We had to speculate a little bit on what would happen with Francis coming back at PFL, Battle of the Giants. Very successful. Sure enough, still keeping that street going. Still, the lineal heavyweight champion destroyed Hanan Fededa, someone who we had in the top 10, I think, a consensus top 10 fighters.

So it looked very good. Now, when I asked Jed about this on the last episode, unfortunately he's not available right now, but when I asked him the last time, he said, Tom, no matter what, would stay number one, no matter what happened to Battle of the Giants. But, and you guys can't see this, but our staff can, Jed actually put Francis number one now

on his heavyweight ranking. So his exact wording was that Faheda will not be a meaningful enough win to overcome, to overcome Aspinola's recent accomplishments. But apparently that changed, and that's okay. Again, if anything that shows how the fluctuation in the rankings, how quickly things can change in MMA. But, Dame, we do have you here.

You are a big John Jones advocate. If it were up to you, you would not have removed from the number one spot, I don't think, if it went out for inactivity. So now I present to you, because you didn't even get to be part of this discussion last episode. We had Mike here. We didn't have Damon. Does John Jones regain the number one spot with a win against Deep Miotich no matter what?

And to that, I'd have to double check my rankings when it happened, but I'm pretty sure I did put Tom Aspinall over John Jones when he beat Curtis Blades. I think I did jump him over John Jones. And then John got eliminated at that point with the inactivity. So to answer your question, no. because I have Tom Aspinall number one and Tom Aspinall will continue to be number one until he loses

because I think he has the more impressive resume right now. I love Steepa. You'll not find a bigger Steve. I'm an Ohio guy. Of course I love Stepe. And it's still, I think it's a more meaningful win that people want to give it credit for.

I understand he's been out for four years. I understand he's coming off a loss. I understand all that. But he's still, I mean, heavy weights traditionally fight longer. They fight older. I still think it's a meaningful win.

But to me, it's still not as much. meaningful of a win as what Tom Aspinall's been doing recently. I think John would probably, in my estimation, he beat Stepe would jump to number two behind Aspinall. And I think at this point, Francis and Gano is entering patchy-mix Johnny Ebelin territory where he just can't get quality wins outside the UFC. And even further, so for Francis, because unless he fights Anatoly Malikin, which I don't think

is ever going to happen, there's no one for him to fight that's going to be like a really good win right now at heavyweight for Francis. Unless somebody leaves the UFC and signs with PFL, Francis is kind of stuck in no man's land. He's getting by right now. Like the Hayna Ferrar win was good, I mean, I guess, but what really got him back to number two of my rankings was his wins over Curtis Blaze and Cyril Ghan in the UFC.

He just was out inactivity-wise. But Inganu's in that no man's land now, he has no one to fight. He could go out and beat the brakes on Dennis Goldsoff and whatever that pop-off guy's name is and everyone else is. everyone else is on the entire PFO roster right now. It's not going to be more meaningful than what Tom Aspinall is doing right now in heavyweight.

So I would probably put Jones at number two, not number one. But Francis is the guy that I feel like it's kind of stuck because I don't think he'll ever get hired number two again. Damn. Yeah, I thought you'd push a lot harder for Jones there, but that was real talk, Damon. I respect it. I said we didn't have Jed here who had Francis number one. Fortunately, we do have a panelist who put France number one. I don't need Casey Lydden decides to go the full Monty

and not just bring Francis back into the rankings but give him the number one spot. You have Francis one, Aspinall 2, and Volkovos, a fight coming up, three. Where will John Jones land with you in a best case scenario, Casey, where let's he just destroy Stephen Miochich? What do we do with John Jones?

And doesn't retire or doesn't immediately retire? Best case is number three for me. No matter what happens, Francis number one, Aspaw number two. It's like 1A, 1B, to be honest. And they're basically fighting for the number three best heavyweight in the world. And if Steve A wins, he'll be there.

He'll be number three, too. So John and Steve A, right for number three. We are going to get hard banned by Dana White because we are, he does not want to hear of the stock. He is, he is hyping this up. I'm not artificial intelligence. I'm just a human gene. You are your real intelligence. He is, he is hyping this up as the number one pound for pound fighter in the world.

world going up against the greatest heavyweight in MMA history. And we are, in case you just said, they are fighting to be. Oh. The number one pound for pound? Is it number one pound for pound in the world? Is that what he's? I mean, he thinks of John John, he, he, I mean, I don't have you heard. When isn't the bull fought?

I thought that was for a pound for pound number one in the world. It was. It was. That was before the Cyril gone John Jones fight, no? The second one? It was before John Jones came back. Yeah. That was before John Jones came back.

That's a rejection. The first Wokonovsky, yeah, the first Wokonovsky fight, yeah. So, yes, it changed. It changed like that. He came back, Dominique Sielagon, anyone who enters a room with him. But, Casey, you are saying that this fight is nothing but for the number threeest heavyweight in the world. Yeah. Dude, what an accomplishment to be the third-dest baddest of all the world.

I will say this, though. And again, my ranking of Francis is more based upon what he. he did before. Like beating Curtis Blades, beating Cyril Gahn, beating Steepa when he did. Beating Hayden-Ferre is fine. Hayden's what he is.

He's a prospect who had three or four losses in a row before he got three wins in a row. So I don't rank Ferrer very high. The only reason I think he cracked the top 15 is because heavyweight outside of the top 10 is just a bad division. But Francis, to me, is stuck in no man's land because I think beating Steepay at 41.

and all four years absence is still a much more meaningful win than beating Haina Ferreira. Hina. Nah, I just don't agree with that. But I guess that's true one. Fair. come on now.

Hayden Ferrer, like, he's like, is he like three, is he like four and three in his last seven fights or something? Like, I just,

I don't, I don't get it. Like, it was a good win. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad Francis is back, but I don't think Francis can ever climb higher, like,

in my opinion. Like, you can't just hold onto the spot by beating Bums. And if he beats Dennis Goldsoff or pop off, whatever his name is. I'm just imagine seeing Hennon-Farre

walking, like, six, nine, Hennon-Fareare, 270 pounds, like, bum, He's not, I mean, I get it, I get it.

He doesn't have the UFC resume, but I have no doubt that Hennon Ferre is a legitimate top 10 guy. Anatoly Malikin has a fight coming up next week against Rugrug, Omar Cane. Rugrug has a better win on his resume than Hainan Ferrer. He has a win over Marcus Buccecha, who is a legit, world-class legit. I think that's a better win than anything that Ferreira has on his record. Like, right now, I think. I'm just saying, like, Malikin would have a better win on his resume beating Rug Rug

than I think Hane Ferrer has right now. I was actually high on Ryan Bader as a heavyweight. I think most two of fivers, I mean, most two of fivers are just heavyweights that diet. You know, that's all. That's all. I think actually, I know it's easy to crap on Ryan Bader's career and stuff because when he loses, he loses big. But I thought, I like Ryan. I agree.

I think actually Ryan was a better heavyweight. But again, it's just the totality of the resume. Like, I can't ignore Ryan's entire. Like, I understand just at heavyweight. But again, even at heavyweight, like he beat a 49-year-old Fador a couple times. You know, he beat, who else did? Like, he beat Matt Mitrione. Like, I'm just saying.

They couldn't touch him. They couldn't even touch him. They couldn't even land a strike on him, David. I like, I like, you'll probably, I'm probably the biggest Ryan Bader stand out here in terms of like guys continuously push his career but I'm just saying like we're picking apart the wins that's all I'm saying like I think

you know again Hain and Ferreric beating Ryan yes it mattered but yeah I think the way he did it too it's not just a wins it was whatever yeah I get it I see I see the argument I see it I mean I pulled up his record now Hena Ferrer's last four wins came over

Matthias shuffle shifle Maurice Green who Maurice Green Dennis Goldsoff, who is Dennis Goldsoff and Ryan Bader. He has one, one win in there, and that's Ryan Bader. And then he has a loss, and now granted, a couple of those losses got overturned because his opponents were on every drug under the sun. But, you know, he has a loss to anti-delisia, which that's what Tom Aspinall brought up.

He's like, he lost to anti, like how, like he's not that. And then Rizvon Kunev, who just got into the UFC off the Contender Series and Clinson Brayu. I'm just saying, like those are three losses he had. Now, again, two of them got overturned for. drugs, but Maurice Green, I like Marie's Green, but come on now, that's not a, that's not a. And he walked through him. He walked through him.

Like, he should have. He did. He did. He walked through Ryan Bader about breaking a sweat. But what would, what would, what would, what would, what would, what would, what would, what would, what would, what would, same thing? And that's why they're, that's why they're, that's why they're both good elite heavy weights. And Murray's Green is a heavyweight. I'm just saying, gentlemen.

Gentlemen, how did we get, how did we get from Francis and Garnoo and John Joan. to Maurice Green and Rug Rug Rug. The light is flashing. The light in the studio is flashing. Once they heard Rug Rug, frankly, actually, that's what I was supposed to shut this down. So guys, we will, we will, thank you for the discussion. Unfortunately, Jed will be back on another ranking show

once this power is restored. So shout out to him, hopefully everything turns out okay there. Looking ahead, guys, to the weekend. People watch this show. We got a lot of ranked fights, actually. We got Flyweight main event, EOSC, Edmonton, number four, Brandon and Reno, number six, Amir al-Bazzi. he's back.

Number four, women's flyweight, Aaron Blanchfield, and number nine, Rose Navajo Unis. Also, both in the top 10 of the women's pound for pound rankings. And tied for 15 heavyweight, Derek Lewis will fight

Jonata Denise. So we got some implications, guys. We love the implications on the ranking show, and we got plenty of those. And then, yes, in two weeks, sorry to skip over

UFC Vegas 100, but in a little over two weeks, we do have the return of John Jones as Deepe. And maybe we will follow up with our third part of the heavyweight discussion and maybe we'll finally have answers as to what that John Jones win means. If he wins or Steve Baby-Ochish win, we'll have some weird clarity at the top of the heavyweight division if that's even possible.

So thank you, delicious Damon. Thank you, Cymley, E. Casey Leiden, for joining me on the ranking show. Again, we will be back probably after 309. And I just want to say to all the listeners and to all the viewers that, No matter what the lists say, you guys are always number one in our hearts. So thank you, and we'll see you. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. It's week two of Canadian Tires' early Black Friday sale.

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