MMA Fighting - Rankings Show: Who’s Getting Most Screwed Out Of A UFC Title Shot? | Nunes-Shevchenko P4P Debate, Is Moreno No. 1?

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

The UFC is littered with names right now who could reasonably deserve a title shot and probably aren’t going to get one because of circumstances beyond their control. But who’s getting the rawest deal? The gang hits that debate and more on this month’s edition of the MMA Fighting Rankings Show. Mike Heck and Steven Marrocco join co-hosts Shaun Al-Shatti and Alexander K. Lee to unpack the fallout of UFC 277 and discuss the latest swings in the MMA landscape (3:15). Does Brandon Moreno have a case to be the No. 1 flyweight in the world (15:47)? Did Amanda Nunes do enough to reclaim the title of MMA’s best female fighter (25:15)? Is Derrick Lewis’ latest slump just a blip in his career or a sign of things to come? We also look at the latest crop of new blood to enter the rankings to predict who has the brightest future (37:50), debate the title shot conundrum (55:40), and much more. Follow Shaun Al-Shatti @ShaunAlShatti Follow Alexander K. Lee @AlexanderKLee Follow Mike Heck @MikeHeck_JR Follow Steven Marrocco @MMAFightingSM Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. Podcast Network. What is up, my friends? Welcome to the M.M.A.

Fighting Ranking Show. Hope you having a wonderful little start to your month. We appreciate you so much for joining us. I am Sean Al-Shadi. I'm here with my guy. The Prince of Positivity, the King in the North. Alexander K. Lee, we are back. Once again, A.K., it's been a very busy past few weeks.

How are we doing today? Gene, it feels like we just did this, didn't we just do a ranking show? Are we, it doesn't it feel like we just did a ranking show not too recently? I mean, I'm excited to do it again. I missed you. I missed you. We needed to do it soon, man. I always miss you and our esteemed guests today.

But, yeah, it feels like we just did this. I don't know if you want to explain to people. We had kind of a short cycle, this eventful, but a bit of a short cycle this time around. Yeah, absolutely. Just because just because of the way the schedule sort of worked out, last month ended up being our busiest month ever, whereas this ranking cycle we're really only looking at the past three weeks or so. Still a lot going on, though.

And just a couple of highlights to run through it. I mean, Amanda Nunes reclains her top spot at Bantamweight, obviously, even steals back a few first place votes on the women's pound for pound list. Brandon Moreno reaffirms his place at 125. We had new names, new blood coming in like Sergey Pavlovich, Ricky Simone, and Mohayev make their day. views and even a few vets who were a little mainstays of these lists took a tumble talking Derek Lewis, Misha Tate, Michelle Waterson.

And there was certainly more, but first, A.K., we got to bring in our panel this month. You alluded to it. It's a new panel. First, your best friend and mine, host of Heck of a Morning, between the links, and like a billion other shows on the M.M.A. Fighting Podcast Network. This man is prolific. You already know, he is Mr. Mike Heck. And also, along with us, is my fellow deputy editor of M.M.A.

fighting my tag team partner behind the scenes. Stephen Morocco, we appreciate you fellas so much for joining us. So let's start with the big question, Mike. Stephen, finally. I know. We're in Stephen making an appearance. Finally. Bring on the abuse. Bring on the verbal abuse. Oh yeah. We got to break you in. That's what the shows are about, right? Rankings. This one, yeah, especially. Well, let's start with Mike first. I mean, Mike, when it came time to do your rankings this month, where was the story for you? What was the story of July? Like, what was the standout sort of situation of you for this for this ranking cycle i mean i should probably stay consistent from the last show because i was on the last show as well because you would ask me what i thought

would be the biggest story over the next few weeks and i said yaiyraiguez was probably going to be the biggest story and maybe not for the reasons we had hoped for but i think it might have been him because we've had quite a debate on where the featherweight division should go and i think Yair took a bit of a step up. I think I have him like two spots ahead of Josh Emmett and those two guys seem to be in the conversation for an interim title or at least for Yair, like I'm not even thinking about interim title. I deserve a fight for the actual gold. So I think I'll just stay consistent and stick with that because it was just such a weird ending to the fight and it's an ending that kind of grew on all of us at first. We're like,

oh, this, he doesn't deserve a title fight. At best he deserves an interim title fight. And as time has sort of gone on, we kind of score it more of an actual win for Yair as opposed to a freak accident. Isn't that funny how that works? It's crazy how that works. And I feel like it's sort of what we dealt with on Saturday in the heavyweight fight as well.

We reacted and sort of hastily. And then the more time has gone on, the more we've watched replays. We're like, you know what? Maybe it's not as bad as we thought it was. So I'm going to stick with that, but you could make other arguments as well, which I'm sure one of you guys will come up.

with what my silver medalist would be in this conversation. Yeah, and it's funny now, Yaiir sort of finds himself in a similar place that a lot of people, actually, the number one contenders, if you want to put that in quotes, find themselves in the UFC in these various divisions where they maybe deserve a title fight or maybe they don't, but they're sort of that person for a title fight, but they're definitely just not going to get one anytime soon and it's all sort of log jammed. And we'll hit on that a little bit later in the show. But Stephen, man, I want to throw it to you, like when you were doing your rankings this month,

what was sort of the big story for you that jumped out? I mean, it's probably recency bias, but it's Amanda Nunes reclaiming her spot at the top. And I think it's mainly because that upset was such a huge one, Juliana Pena upsetting her in the way that she did. Just the fact that Amanda was able to come out and look like the person that she's looked like for so long, not only that, but to really put Julianne in her place in so many different ways, technically, it was almost like a restoring of the order, and it sort of got her back in that goat conversation where I think she deserved to be.

Yeah, I would have to say that I agree with you in regards to, it feels like there's an argument that of everybody, Amanda made the biggest statement this month, because it sort of felt like this was an all or nothing for her in this Juliana Pena of Rematch. And you already saw it happening, right? Like you saw the chatter starting to just maybe pick away a little bit, a little bit, at the legacy poke holes in this woman who I think has long been sort of the consensus goat for everyone. It kind of felt like if the Pena of Rematch had gone differently, had gone south. There would have been a lot of very silly revisionist history going on, a lot of chatter about how

Amanda was never really that good to begin with. She was always overrated. blah, blah, blah, blah. It's silly, but you could sort of see the seeds being laid there by some people. A.K., I mean, was that sort of where you ended up as well when you did your rankings this month? I'll draw on another one, but that would probably be my number one choice as well. Listen, I was one of the people who ahead of that fight was like, there's questions that need to be asked about how much Amanda Nunes has left. I'm not saying I agreed with these questions, but that they had to be asked because, you know, she is a mom now.

She wants to coach some time in the future. She's talked about retirement on previous occasions, you know. I was, so I was like, is that the kind of mindset you can go into against, you know, someone who who really derailed, you know, that your surefire all-time goat talk in your first outing? So, again, I'm not saying I agreed on these narratives, but, you know, I had to throw them out there. And if I believed in any of them, I'll tell you, I was proven wrong because, yeah, I think she looked phenomenal.

She looks like she's got another two, three tile defenses left in her, how many she, however many she wants to do. And it was very important that she won and won the way she did. I don't care that she didn't finish. I know she herself and Dana White were also saying after like, oh, was there a little more? Does she leave a little more in the tank? Could she put a more of a stamp on it? And it's like dominating a tough opponent like Juliana Pena for five rounds, knocking her down multiple times was really, really impressive.

And if we see a third meeting, I'm actually kind of down for it. But also I understand why if people just saw that one fight, we're like, I'm good. I don't need to see it again. Amanda Nunes is the better fighter. The questions have been answered. But that man always finds something to criticize. He really does. Do you have 5043 and we're still talking about criticism.

It's ridiculous. He did call the performance dominant multiple times. I was, I should be clear. Daniel, I did call. He did say dominant, dominant. He said he was dominant at least like three or four times. So, you know, he just, he just nitpicking. But I'll also just throw out there quickly, Sergey Pavlovich,

because debuting at number seven, listen, maybe he has to give a little tip of the cap to Dan Mergliata. But I think that fight was going his way anyway. He's kind of been lost in the shuffle a little bit with Chris, you know, last year or whatever, the last, within the last year, Tom Aspinall, obviously the big up-and-comer and heavyweight. Chris Dawkins was in there for a bit for taking a couple of losses, tied to Avasa, if you want to throw him into that group.

And Pavlovish, he kind of had a lot of inactivity for a while, which knocked him out of it. But other than losing his debut to Overe him, like he's looked fantastic. And I think all of us just kind of wanted to see him prove it. And so he gets to this Lewis fight, gets a finish, questionable or not. And now he's in our top 10, just like that. And he belongs that guy. Maybe he's leapfrogged Aspinol as well. as far as who could get a teloshopper.

I don't know, which is considering astronaut's injury. So that's pretty exciting to me. Always exciting to see that fresh blood. And one more thing I kind of want to ask you guys, is this Derek Lewis's lot now to be a guy who just has, his spot is to be taken? Because we just saw it with Tai Taito Ivasa.

Now Sergey Pavlovich has done it. He's fought for UFC titles twice. It's, I'm obviously avoiding using the word gatekeeper. But it does feel like he is just a name now for them to eventually throw an up and comrade, and they can get a number next to their name by beating him. It's an interesting question. I mean, you're looking at him.

He's 37 years old, right? He's been, this is who he's been for a long time. He's a get-or-get-got fighter. He's a 50-50 coin flip fighter. And for a long time, he was the one who was getting the other guys, and now he's sort of on the other end of that. It's three in a row, or I mean, not three in a row, but three of his past four, all of those three were Cyrilgan,

Tai Taitu Vasa, Sergei Pavl, sort of the new blood. But then you look in there, Chris Dawkins is, in there. Also, Curtis Blades was not very long ago, and we're all talking about Curtis Blades now is one of the best heavy weights in the world still. I don't know, man. It's an interesting question. I feel like Derek still has some left in the tank, and maybe this is just a rough patch, but maybe I'm just sort of, uh, I just love that man so much. I refuse to see what's in front of me. What do you think, Mike? It's tough, man. Like, Derek is who he is and he fights the way he fights, and every Derek Lewis fight is going to be like Gary, it's like you say, he's get or get God.

and he's in this like the Curtis Blades fight is so strange to me because no one thought he would win that fight. And that wasn't long ago. That was like a year ago. That was in February of 2021. He was a plus 300 dog at best depending on where you look. And Curtis Blades decided, you know what? You know what I think would be a great strategy? I'm going to go box Derek Lewis.

I think that's a great idea when I just take him down and burn him out. He was doing okay. And then he got, I mean, That was what, like, if you go back in history, that was one of the most violent knockouts ever. Like, I went back and watched it. It was one of the worst where I was just like, oh, my God, like, he needs to go to the hospital. I hope he's okay. Like, I'm really concerned about his future well-being.

No one thought he'd win that fight. And then he goes down and wins. It's just, it's just nuts who this, like, I don't know. Like, you could throw him in there with anybody. And like, it's all going to be the same. Like, I was talking about this on a heck of a morning on Tuesday. if you if they booked derrick lewis against paca porta right now would anybody complain no one would complain about that but if they put him if they booked him with in ganu or anybody like

that like a roman off or something yeah like i don't want to see that i don't want to see it but if they booked yeah if they booked the rematch with pavlovich it's fine if they booked him against like anybody in the top five it's okay but if they booked him with pacoporta or chase sherman like no one's going to care like it's just going to be like oh cool derrick lewis is fighting like the reaction will still be the same. So he's not quite a gatekeeper. He is kind of a litmus test, but he's just in a category by himself where he fight, if he fights anybody, it's interesting and you can make an argument in a compelling

case heading into it that he could win this fight or that he can lose this fight to everybody, including Paco Pauota and Chase Sherman. Like that's just who Derek Lewis is. And he, as long as he gets a paycheck and it goes in his bank account, he doesn't care who he fights. And that's what I think people love about him, which is. really, really interesting. And I just want to add to this, if Derek Lewis wasn't the guy whose face is on the mat, do you think we'd be having this conversation right now?

No. Like, do you honestly think we'd be making this big of a deal out of it? If it was anybody else besides Derek Lewis? No. I think it's wild. He's beloved. Yeah, exactly. I, for, I love the, the little drips of Boston Mike that, that, oh gosh, come in there during the Parker Porter. I was just about to say, can I, can I have you do a high track for Parker Porter? Please don't. Just having you say his name. Please don't. To a beat. I'll never not say it like that for the rest of my life. Oh, force it out of me. Derek Lewis.

Stop being you. Derek Lewis, fall into the number, I believe, she number eight, number eight, which is the lowest he has been really in the history of these rankings for us. Since we started doing it.

As high as number six in our, one of our panel spells and as low as number 11. Oh, someone's a ranger now. Someone out there's a hater putting out of 11. I was asked about Derek earlier this week. and I almost in the mind where like I really hope the UFC doesn't do the UFC thing here where they just keep feeding the old guy to the young guns because like they did something

the opposite with Anthony Smith right where I guess maybe not the opposite but they sort of let Anthony Smith rebuild himself to a certain degree they weren't throwing him against these crazy prospects they were more throwing him against these 15 to 20 to 25 range guys and all of a sudden Anthony Smith gets three wins in a row he looks like a world beater again and we were talking about him like he was somebody who mattered again I really hope they do something that like that with Derek and they don't just keep throwing him to like the Sergei Pavlovich is the Romanovs whoever because like Sergit Pavlovich might just be really damn good like dude is is I think he's only lost Alster over him in his entire life and everything else is pretty much first

round knockouts for him like there's a real chance we're looking at this fight a couple years back or a couple years from now as like oh yeah of course Sergei Pavlovich won this one I mean step Stephen where do you want to see this go I mean if there's any benefit or silver lining here for Derek Lewis is the fact that he fights in the UFC heavyweight division And he's marketable AF, you know. He could lose. He will lose again, like you said, you know, with his style. And he's one of those guys that they put together a couple of wins,

and he's kind of back in the picture. He's, you know, he's past that point right now where losses and wins matter that much. He's just a marketable commodity that they can use until, you know, he starts to trend, you know, one direction more than the other more often than not. So, you know, I want to see Derek, I want to see Derek fight Parker, Parker Porter right now. That's what I want. Let's go.

Let's go. If only to hear Mike say that name, 20 more times. I'm here for that. Sign me up. Sign me all the way up. Do not, do not give him Jailton Almeida. Do not do not. Yeah.

Because every time somebody beat Shemiel Derahimov, they fight Derek Lewis. So don't do it. Do not do that. Please, I'm begging you. That's the path of Derek Lewis. Don't do it. That's just the path. That's how the UFC goes.

It's funny because there was one other big fallout from UFC 277, which is sort of the big show of this cycle. And we haven't mentioned it at all. And that was obviously Brandon Moreno and sort of the way the flyweight division has played out. And we talked about it on the post fight show a little bit. I will say this one, the way this sort of shook out with the rankings, kind of surprised me a bit. And maybe it shouldn't have the Devis and Figuero hate train is seemingly stronger now than it's ever been.

Of all the guys to get all this guff in the MMA community, I don't understand why it's this guy. He is always entertaining every time out. He has been a very reliable champion for the most part. But there was some surprising debate coming out of 277 among the team that I just didn't expect among the flyweight ranks. And again, maybe I'm naive. I probably am.

But Brandon Moreno coming off this sensational highlight real win over Kikara France, securing this interim title shot, giving us the Tetralogy, and stealing away two first place votes here at 125. And Mike, I hope you don't mind me revealing this. Those two were you and Casey as well, our good friend, E. Casey Layden. You guys were the two, A.K. Stephen, the three of us and Jed voted for Figueredo, and then, of course, you have Damon and Guillermo out there doing their own thing, voting for the DJ Slayer, Adriano Morias.

So flyweight right now is all over the place. Three different people getting first place votes on our rankings. Mike, why was Moreno your new number one this month? Make the case and talk us through this. As a conductor of the hate train, the Davis and Figuerado hate change. You and Joe Rogan, man. You and Joe Rogan, just leading this. Yeah, that's what I said in the People's Prefight show,

that this fight was for the actual title, so that Moreno is the actual champion. That was just dumb, by the way, and it said a horrible precedent for the rest of the card. but I think Brandon Moreno is undefeated against Davis and Figuerreto, at least how I feel about it, at least how I scored the third fight because the first fight, I mean, you can make a case that Figgie won for sure, but he cheated, he got caught and he got a point taken away. So, and that changed everything.

So that is a draw. Moreno went out there and starched him in the second fight. And the third fight, while Figurato made some great adjustments, I thought him going to team Sehudo and going to fight ready and doing all those things was huge. and it led to the fight being what it was, I scored the fight for Brandon Moreno. And then I went back and I was like, maybe I was looking at it from like a biased view.

And then I watched it again yesterday, just to make sure I'm not dumb, like that I have this right. And I went watch it again. I still scored it for Brandon Moreno. So to me, he's 2.0 against Figurato. And he just went out there and had the kind of performance that he needed to earn that spot.

Now, if he went out and ekech out a split decision against Kai Kar-Frans, maybe I'm not looking at it like that. Like maybe I think, figure eight might get the spot but the fact that moreno went out there won the first two rounds he was in dain he was in a little bit of trouble in the third kai kara franz was lighting him up and then he saw that opening for that body kick went in finished the fight got the win and car france is on such a run like entering the fight i actually felt like car franz had that or about him

that like no matter what happens like no matter how outgunned or outmatch he might be on paper like he just had that or that there's just no way this guy was going to lose to anybody and Moreno went out there, finished the job. So to me, like, he's undefeated against Figurato, and he just finished a guy who I didn't think could really lose. I just thought, like, the world of MMA, the gods are just going to shine this light upon Kai Kar-France until he had undisputed gold wrapped around his waist.

And Brandon Moreno said, I don't care what you guys think. I don't care what the MMA gods think. I'm going to go win this belt. I'm going to finish this guy. I'm going to get all deep in a box of Nutella at the post-fight press conference. So Brandon Moreno to me, I mean, you can call it 1A, 1B, but if you're going to call it that, Brandon Morano is 1A, Figy's 1B, and that's why we need to see this, this tetrology, not the quadrology, the tetrology between these two gentlemen made by the end of the year early 2023. Very important distinction there, tetrology, not quadrology people. Your brandon is just so delightful that Nutella is just such like a perfect Brandon Moreno, a little spice there.

I mean, I'm going to say, Mike, I don't agree, but I respect where you're. you're coming from? Because you say with conviction, I think there's probably like half of the community, MMA community that agrees with you too. This feels to me like very much a Max Holloway Alexander Volcanowski situation before we had that third fight. But I mean, A.K. Stephen, where do you guys sort of land on this? I mean, do you see where Mike's coming from or do you think this is all very silly and it's obviously figgy? Man, it's, there's nothing obvious about it. There's nothing obvious about the top of a flyway. Like you said, we also have two of our panelists voting for one champion Adrian Arirano Marys and why not?

He beat, he definitively beat DeMiches Johnson. Even though he's basically like a 135er, but we don't need to. And they will fight again. He could strengthen his case this month. They actually fight in two weeks, I think, August 12th, I want to say. I'm thinking about Bellator. There's a one championship card this week and this, this month. It's one on Prime Video One.

What a snappy name. One on Prime Video One. Heavily anticipated, too, the fact that all of us obviously knew the date off the top of Absolutely. And that will feature, fingers crossed, that will feature the rematch and headlining between Demetri Johnson and Adjana Marino. So there's that. And then also, there's this whole thing with Figy and Moreno. We keep kind of joking about it. Like, oh, this is a fight that we can see half in like 10 times. It's just so fun. They're so evenly matched. It's so exciting. They're so clear, I think so clearly the two best guys, at least in the UFC in the flyweight division. So while there's a lot of fresh challenges, I understand why people don't even want to see a fourth fight because it's like, why not put out Pantosia. What about, you know, Melkopf if he gets a big win? Oscar Ascroft's out there. I know, like, he's coming off a loss, but he has the resume. There's so many good fly weights that should get a title shot within the next, you know, 18 months.

But they might not, depending what happens with Figgy and Moreno. So my, this is my long way of saying, like, I have Figgy number one just because he beat them in their most recent outing. But there's, like, when we look back on this, like, that's an all-time thing, man, it's like, I don't know if you'll ever be able to say one guy is so definitively better than the other. Moreno finished him in the second fight. You know, Davidson won not a competitive decision in the third fight. And then as we all said, the first fight pretty much a Figaro win, which he botched with the fouls. So I'm comfortable having Figy number one.

If he stays up there for a long time, if he beats Moreno again and then stays up there for a long time, that wouldn't surprise me. But it just feels like these two are going to be in talks forever. And I know people aren't going to want to see it, but who knows? If Biggie never goes up to 135, he probably will at some point. if he doesn't, I mean, these guys can meet a fifth time like somewhere down the road. I honestly don't know. They're so, they're so closely matched.

Yeah. And I think actually that's probably the best, the best route for solving this logjam and probably the most likely route because Figgie is going to go up to 135. I think that that's just too hard of a weight cut for him. And I think that he's eventually going to go up. So that's probably going to be the thing that moves things along most expediently. But it's interesting. I mean, I get your argument, Mike.

They are technically one, one and one. But there's this just reek of subjectivity there in terms of what the score should be as opposed to what the score is. And, you know, for me, he won the last fight. You know, it doesn't matter. This is just my philosophy. And we've had this debate since we started this damn thing. Rika subjectivity could be the subtitle of this show at this point.

Welcome to the show, Stephen. Welcome to the show. I mean, it's just like, I'm the new kid, but it's like I feel like that we're going back to that original argument, you know, what we would like to be versus what is. And I think the strongest argument is the fact that it is one, one and one. Technically, they are pretty much even in record. But the most recent, the most recent meeting, he won for the undisputed title. Therefore, he is number one. With the mic.

dropped. Yeah. Just the, I mean, I was, I was waiting for. No, I get it. And to me,

like, even heading into this card, like, it was kind of like the Schifchenko Nunes pound for pound thing, where you have both that are, like, neck and neck,

and it's almost like you go to that, to a carnival, and you roll the ball, and you try to get it in the hole and the little horse moves spots, and it's just a matter of inches of who gets there first. And I feel like these two guys

are almost neck and neck. Maybe Moreno was slightly behind, but then he rolled a freaking three, and now he's just a little bit more ahead of Figurado. And it was kind of the same thing like with Usman and Volcanovsky right now. Like Usman probably like has the better record than like Usman probably has more of a compelling case. But like what Volcanowski has done recently during this time that Usman hasn't competed, he's just jumping forward. And now he's like, now he's ahead.

Now if Usman goes out later this month and beats Leon Edwards, like he's probably back to being the number one pound for pound guy. So it's just a game of interest between these two guys. I'm not going to argue with you if we got Figy in there. I probably will argue with you on the Adriana Mariah's thing, but that's neither here nor there. Same. Same, same, same. But if you have Figy number one, cool. If you got Mariano number one, cool.

It's just, I don't think any of us are wrong. I think we're both right. And that's it. Maybe Queen Damon. We'll see. Well, yeah, two of us are wrong, but not us on this show. Yeah. We're all very wrong.

I'm glad you mentioned the Pound for Boundman. pound situation at the women's ranks, speak with between Amanda and Valentina. Because to me, the, like my philosophy, I guess we all have our own different philosophies for reggae. My philosophy for divisions is I try to be a little bit more rigid with it, follow, you know, maybe like, hey, not what have you done for me lately type of stuff. Whereas pound for pound has always felt to me like a very fluid thing where it's, you know, if you've been very active recently, you deserve to sort of move up above someone who's been very stagnant, that sort of thing. Again, that's just my philosophy. That doesn't need to be your philosophy. But it is an

interesting situation we have now come back to, I say back to because we've had this conversation before, but now we're sort of all of a sudden revisiting it between Amanda and Valentina. Because Amanda just 50-43, the number two woman in her division, at this point, it feels like there's no doubt who's the best 135 in the world. She's whatever you think about 145, she's still the 145 pound champion. She beat Chris Cyborg. And so now she's back at the top spot of 135, but she also got a couple number first place votes on the pound for pound list. I was one of those. Gierre Mae was one of those as well.

The rest of you guys, six of you guys voted for Valentina and kept her at number one. And to me, I was surprised that this wasn't more of a debate, I guess. I was expecting more of a 4-4, 3-5 type of situation of more people to come on Amanda's side, especially considering the performance we just saw from Valentina, right? Where she is very nearly lost and could have lost had she not gotten that head. But I found it all very interesting the way it shook out. I'm curious, A.K. I'll throw it to you. I mean, do you feel like I'm crazy with throwing Amanda right back up? Or are you as surprised as me that this didn't become more of a thing?

Well, I definitely stuck with Schochenko. I don't think you're crazy because I think it's very easy. I think after Schenko's last performance, there were some people wondering, were we too quick? Or that they want to wait to see what happened with this fight. Because the big, you know, storyline after Ashtrachenko's fight with Talas Santos is, oh, now we've seen cracks in Shavchenko's armor. Now we've finally seen what it looks like when she's vulnerable.

You know, people just, you know, that just happened with Amanda. Amanda lost Shvchenko, she pulled out the decision win. But people, a lot of people disagreed with that score. They thought that that Santos did pull off the victory. So it's, she kind of was teetering a little bit. And then suddenly Amanda goes out there avenges this loss in definitive fashion. An incredible, incredible five round performance. And again, and then we're going body of work, I mean, I think they both have extremely strong bodies of work.

But, you know, Man Nunes, two divisions, names like Chris Seiborg, Ronda Rousie, Mishita, Haleigh, Holly Home, you know, all that stuff. Up too well in that series. And she has beaten Shifchenko head to head at 135 pounds. So it's certainly very easy to put her back up there. For me, I think the difference was, I'm trying to think how Nunes could get back up now. I think I gave Shichenko a lot more credit for that Santos fight than most did. that's probably the only difference. Like, I think she, like, that fight was not a showcase for her,

but I also think she did better than people think. And also, you know, there was the thing of, like, Santos did so much better than expected and all that. So we kind of discussed this on a bunch of other shows at nausea. So I won't go over that again. So, but for the fact that Scherchenko was able to pull out that win is kind of enough for me to, uh, to keep her in that number of one spot. But I mean, Nunez certainly looked great.

Again, and I now I don't know what she has to do to reclaim the spot. maybe if she has another dominant telefence or a fast finish. But I'm really holding on to that Shvchenko at number one for now. And hopefully Shepchenko gets back in the cage, you know, before the end of the year and can cement that spot and make it easier for me to keep her there. I mean, Mike, was this even something you considered or were you pretty locked in on Shepchenko at one? I thought about it, but ultimately to me, Shifchenko is still the number one. She hasn't lost in a long time.

And Nunes has. Like you call it, I hate using the word flukech. in fights. I don't think it was a fluke. I think, again, maybe Julianne just caught Amanda on a bad night, but Tylos Santos also caught Valentina Shepchenko on a bad night and Valentina won and Amanda didn't. So to me, that was just kind of wade the scales. I don't think putting Nunes up there is egregious at all. What I will say, and I'm not going to call this person out because I just saw this. Oh, I know what you're going to say before you even say it. I will. Actually, A.K. and I talked about this, but please go ahead. And I will. No, no, please call them out. Please call them out. And one

of our panelists poll, one of the panelists, not only did they not... A rogue panelist, one might say. A rogue panelist. A rogue panelist had Amanda Nunes heading into this fight number three pound for pound. After this victory, 50-43, Amanda Nunes has dropped a spot. She's number four on this rogue panelist list. It's so dumb. Mike, you're my best friend.

Mike, your blood pressure, please, your blood pressure. You're my best friend. Listen, I want to say something just to comment. you down. Now, I obviously, I don't agree with there's rogue panelists, but I... Can you explain sort of what Mike is talking about to? Because the viewers have no idea. Oh, okay, okay. So, yes, Nunez has a drop to four because our rogue panelists bumped up,

rising Adamweight champion, Seika Izawa, up to number three, pound for pound. No, I get it. The majority of our listeners probably not familiar with Izawa. She's 7 and O's a pro. Her, she's looked amazingly dominant in her career so far. She's only 24 years old, and she has two big wins over a Yakamasaki, who, like, is one of the greatest Adam Wins of all time, two very convincing wins over Yucamsaki back to back. So that's kind of her claim to fame right now. And now she's starting to put together her own resume.

Again, only seven pro-MMA about so far. But she has looked sensational. So Shaheen presented this to me in our Slack chat. And at first I was- Also, it was Casey. I don't know why we're dancing around. It was Casey. Everybody knows.

He's not here to defend it himself. But I will advocate for him. So I will say this. If we are, we know, we don't, of course, we don't keep Adam-Way rankings. We will someday, hopefully, fingers crossed, but I can't promise that. If we are treating Adam weight as a real division, which it is much more so than women's featherweight, that's for damn sure, then should we not show respect to the clear cut best animal weight in the world? Her competition, again, outside of Ayaka Hamasaki does leave a little bit to be desired. Like I said, I would like to see her build her resume first before I would do something like throwing her into the top five, like pound for pounds.

So I wouldn't do that. But this would be like, imagine if there was a six and no fighter who came along at like women's band and weight. and beat Holly Holie Holm. You would just bump them up. I don't know how you put them pound for pound, but you would bump them up. You wouldn't hesitate to bump them up. So this is like the DJMMA equivalent of that.

It's like she is a clear blue chip talent. Again, she has dominated everyone she's fought. And she is, again, beaten one of the all-time great sort of atom weight. So again, if we're going to rate like cyborg highly based on her, you know, and I'm not comparing us out with a cyborg. Well, I guess I am. If we're going to rate cyborg highly based on her dominating featherweight for you know, whatever, 15 years, then we have to give us some credit for dominating a division

that I think is actually, is an actual division, if that makes sense. So I'm just, I don't know why I'm being the devil's advocate. I'm putting myself in the line of fire for Casey here. I'm probably going to catch a lot of stray shots, but I want to be peace in the land and I want us to cease the reasoning, the logic. It's too high. It's too high. She should not be above noon. She should not be above news. Amanda Nunes dropped a spot after one of the best performances of her career. That's crazy. It's too high.

It's too high. And Azawa hasn't fought since. Oh, no. Azawa won in July. She won't in July. I'm sorry. She won't. Over someone that no one else on this panel wouldn't.

I mean, this is probably new, but I think we have an activist panelist in this, in this rankings committee. Yes. Yes. And that's okay. And he's using his rankings.

He's misusing his power. He is weaponizing. A political argument, essentially. Yeah, because it's weighted. We are doing this. I mean, I think we're all trying to do this to the best of our ability, given that it's a pound for pound discussion. And there's so many things that go into this.

There's so much more subjectivity than other things. I think one guy is just being a little bit less, a little bit more honest about it, you know? Okay. He's like, I'm going to rank this guy higher. So she gets the props that she probably deserves. and wouldn't get if we were just doing this from the current landscape. Listen, we are all friends here. I will just say, I don't want to dwell on it too much.

I will just say, I think it's obvious too high. But Casey, I understand where you're coming from. I understand why you did this. So I am not, you know, I don't agree, but I understand the logic. To bring this back to noon, to bring this back to nudis, because I feel like Mike could go for 30 minutes on this is all that thing. I just don't understand, I guess, if some, like you, said, you know, Amanda just lost, Valentin hasn't lost for a long time.

Valentina did lose. The last time she lost was to Amanda Nunes. She's lost twice to Amanda Nunes. That's, I guess, the part that I don't understand is if we were taking overall body of work as something that matters, if it goes between two people and one person is up on a series two to O, that to me feels like that's the answer. And I guess I'm surprised that no one else sort of came around other than Gierrema, who was obviously the smartest one on this panel aside for me.

That's all I'm saying. I get it, man. But I mean, what? That was, I mean, there comes to a point where there's a statute of limitation for me. Like, if we're talking about something. Yeah. If it's happened like two years ago, Nunes is number one, 100%. But this is five years ago.

Like, this is five years ago in a fight that a lot of people thought Shavchenko won. And it was a terrible fight. So I almost like try to forget about that fight altogether. Like, it never happened. And I think a lot of other people who actually spent the money to watch it probably do as well. But, yeah, five years a long time. Like, I think it's part of the story. But at this point, talking pound for pound, like currents,

I don't think it holds that much weight, if that makes sense. That's a good point with statute of limitations too. Each of us have a different statute of limitations for what for ascribing meaning to a loss or a win. Right. And we haven't really, correct me if I'm wrong, we haven't really discussed that. No, it's all like to personal philosophies. it would be technically more objective if we all were on the same page

with that, right? Wouldn't it be more, you know? Yeah. It would be less fun though. As long as the definition that we all agree to is set by me, yes, and I fully support it.

I fully support this. Also, though, hopefully it seems like we might get an answer soon. It feels like that's the obvious next white for both women. Maybe the UFC is willing to throw a little bit more money, Valentina, Jeff Chanko's way.

We finally get this deciding fight because I agree that was a very controversial fight. It's one of those ones you pull it on MMA decisions that rematch. It's like half, half. It's 50, 50 basically, between Shepchenko and Nunes. So I hope we see that third fight. It feels to me like a historically important fight that we can't miss. And again, we said it on the post-fight show.

I'm not going to go too much more into it. But like, you only have so much of a window to do this sort of thing until all of a sudden that window's gone overnight. This window almost disappeared twice over the last year for each of these women. So like, let's just do this now. I don't know why we're waiting. Hopefully we can get resolution. We're going to take a quick break.

and then we're going to finish out on the other side. When I got a great deal on a great gift at Winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. It's just $39.99. How could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister.

This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss? Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at winters? Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners, find fabulous for less. Workday knows there are two kinds of people in business,

backward thinkers and forward thinkers. And when you're a forward thinker, you need an AI platform that thinks like you do. Built to evolve with your organization, Workday reimagines how you manage your people, money, and agents for long-term success, bringing all your most valuable resources onto one powerful platform

so you can add value even faster. Workday, moving business forever forward. As we are back, hitting now some of the smaller scope topics, some of the smaller scope fall out of the past three weeks. And one of them I thought was a very fun development. I always enjoy when we sort of get these cycles where we get a lot of new blood. We get this influence of new names making their debuts this month.

And we had a couple of this month. Some of it was because of things they directly did, performances these guys had. And others were maybe just because some of the veterans who dropped out of the rankings this was sort of the next person up. But I think the two big ones that would come as no surprise to anyone, right?

Muhammad Maheif, 22 years old, 7 and 0, 2 and O in the UFC, already has its third fight booked at UFC 280, which is low-key looking like the card of the year already against Malcolm Gordon. He debuts at number 12 at Flyweight, which feels like a nice ranking for him. And then a man we already mentioned earlier,

Sergey Pavlovich, the kind of a name who's been low-key creeping up for several years now. Easily the biggest win of his UFC career, that's four in a row all first round knockouts. He debuts at number seven heavyweight. So those are the big ones. But then there were also a couple smaller ones that sort of crept in under the radar. You had Ricky Simone, who's now 8 and 2 in the UFC, five-fight win street.

He's coming at number 15 at Bantamway, so just creeping in there. And then at lightweight, Grant Dawson, Roberto DeSouza, aka Satoshi, another rising standout, coming in at number 15, they were tied. And so, gentlemen, let's just quickly exclude Muhammad Mahaya from this conversation because I feel like he's just getting started and a lot of us are going to pick him when it comes to this next question that I'm going to ask you guys.

But of the rest of that group, Pavlovich, Simone, Dawson, Satoshi. Who do you most believe in, Mike? Whose chances do you like to stick around and do some damage here? That's a really good question. I think the guy with probably like the most talent and upside that I'm really happy is here right now is Ricky Simone.

So with you. I am so with you on that. Him beating Jack Shore. and not just beating him the way he did it. And it just, it's like he knew it the whole time. The whole time he builds up to it, he was just smirking, smiling. Like, you guys are so high on this guy, but wait till you see what happens when we get to Long Island.

And that's exactly what happened. He went out there just as such a freak athlete and you really got to see the athleticism, just the raw athleticism this guy has against the guy who's just super technically talented like a Jack Shore. He just picked him up. He hoisted him up. He did.

He was fine on the feet with him. Like, Ricky's good, man, and Ricky's had, I don't, like, we talk about statute of limitations. I feel like it took him a long time to get over the Uriah Faber fight, at least in the eyes of medium members, the eyes of fans, like, oh, he's always the guy who got tapped and got bolted by Yariah Faber in a fight that, like, he had no chance, like, Faber should have never won. And I feel like this win got people over that a little bit. You see him on the MMA hour, like, that's a very big deal to see. you know, Ricky Simone on the MMA hour.

Like, that's huge. So I think people are coming around to Ricky and this is probably long overdue, honestly. It's he probably should have been on this ranking well before the Jackshore fight. And here he is getting it now. And yeah, I think he's the guy with the most upside right now of all these guys. Like, Ricky could do some damage. Like, this could be a guy. Like, if he gets the right fights and the UFC books him accordingly,

he could be a guy in the who could just slide into the top five and no one should be surprised. about that. I totally agree with you, Mike. And it was funny when you say he should have been here earlier. It's like, I think that speaks to how ridiculously deep and difficult Bantam Wade is, that the fact that he wasn't, right? Because even at the very bottom, you got guys like Adrian Yanez, Patchy Mix, Stanley Sabatelo, like all these names just scratching and clawing, Nirmigamatoff even, like Umar, Norma Gama Gamaama Gama'amatoff. You have so many names just scratching and clawing to try to even get into these rankings, it seems like you really have to make a statement and do something spectacular to finally break in. And now that he's in, I feel like

we're going to be seeing Ricky Simone here for a while. A.K., what about you? Of those names that we had listed at the beginning, who do you like the most? I like Simone a lot. What are my other options again, Cheyne? Pavlovich, Dawson, and Satoshi. Oh, I listen. Like I said, I've kind of already bigged up Pavlovich. So I'm going to stick with that. Outside of Makayev, I really see big things that had for Pavlovich. Again, if it wasn't for that stretch from like 2019, to this year, where, you know, various, I think there's some injury in there, just various reasons he couldn't get in.

Now he's getting the fights he needs. Is he good enough, again, to break into that, you know, Angano, steepa, ghan, trifecta, possibly tatuvasa. We'll see what that goes. I don't know. I don't know. But my goodness, I mean, you look at him and you see this, this is a heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy way.

He is a massive, massive man. He moves well, very skilled guy, very physically mature. He's 30 years old. You know, we call him a young guy. because he's in the heavyweight division, but he's young, but also with, you know, also sort of in his athletic prime. So, yeah, I see big things for him.

And it's hard. I don't know where he fits in. The only problem is there's this whole issue with, we think that somewhere along the line, there might be an interim title fight, you know, involving Gone and Blades or Tuvasa, Tvvvvats Upset's gone. So there's that to factor in. And then, of course, this never ending, will Stipe and John Jones fight? Or will John Jones and Inganu fired or will Stipe have a trills you?

So the title picture is so much. murky. I don't know how long this guy's going to have to wait to get a clear idea of what he has to do or who he has to beat to get a tell the shot. And as we know at heavyweight, man, there's so much randomness. All it takes is like one bad night and suddenly, boom, you're bumped two or three spots down the rankings because you got caught by some or or you got matched up with like Alexander Romanov. And then what happened now? So you know what I mean? And it's not anyone's fault. If Romano beat him or Pavlovich B. Romanov, it's just, but they're going to have to stay busy until whatever is.

going on in the top of the division resolves itself and frankly i feel like we're not near uh any resolution in that so i i do pick pavlovish but i mean there's so many things outside of control that could prevent him from from actually contending yeah there was a real at least to me like eye opening moment during ufc 277 fight week at the wayans the official or the ceremonial wanes when you saw those two derrick lewis and pavlovich square up and it was just oh jesus like there's not a lot of human beings on earth who can make derrick lewis look small and the fact that this guy was it's like, oh, okay, maybe, maybe something bad's about to happen here to Derek Lewis. Steven, I mean, between sort of the guys we've talked about, maybe you can go off the

board, too, who do you like the most of this new blood? For pure regional bias, it's Ricky Simone. He's a guy from Vancouver. He's from A-T-Portland, A-T-T, or A-T-T-Portland, I should say. I've watched him from early in his career. He was always like the big. prospect and that gym in all of its different incarnations has just been has it just had so much bad luck been used to build other fighters you know constantly gets the short end of

the stick you know their guys fall short Ricky's always been the standout always been the stud among them and I think the as much as I want to see him win as you mentioned before Bantamweight is such a difficult division and I think that's the the major thing that's going to keep him from getting over the hump. You know, if he has the best of nights in a succession of fights and, you know, delivers on the 100% of his promise, I definitely think he could be a champion at Bantamweight. But for the more likely, you know, ascension, I would go with Pavlovich simply because of his size, his dominance and the size of the division. You know, I just think it's a safer bet.

Yeah, I mean, if you're 30 years old in the heavyweight division, you probably got like 12 years to work, right? Pretty much. Dude's got the whole rest of his career out of him. I want to quickly hit the one man we left out, which was because we would have all picked him, I think. Muhammad Maheuf. This is not your dad's flyweight division anymore. Like, if you look at the flyweight top seven right now, figurato, Moreno, Morayas, DJ, Kai Kara, France, Pantosja, Ascaroff. That's a ridiculously stacked top seven.

Like, that is an incredibly talented top seven right there. If I set the bar at this time next year, so we're talking August 2023, is Muhammad Mahayev in that top seven? And if so, who has he kicked out? Because I don't know how he's going to get in that top seven, but I believe he will. But that is just such a good list of names. Mike, I'll throw it to you first. Boy, that's tough, Ed. it's funny because like I'm so high on this guy that I think he could jump like almost all of them at some point.

Like I don't know. Like 2023 seems as active as this guy is because he wants, I mean, he already knows like he gets out of fight. He's like, I'm fighting in October and he gets to fight in October. Yeah. Like he could win in October and be like I'm fighting in December in Las Vegas and they'll give it to him. So he could move up pretty quickly. Boy, I'm going to go. Like I think he could jump Asker up pretty quickly.

and it's not because of the talent, it's because I just think the activity is going to be huge. I just think Ascarov's just, and I just think maybe we'll get two fights out of Ascroft between now and the end of 23. Mahiaf will fight like eight times before the end of 20203. And I'm not even just saying that sarcastically. And he's that talented,

he's that good. And here's the thing about Mahiav, like you look at his record early, but this guy's paid his dues. His super long amateur career, super long amateur career. The confidence was there. He learned a lot of lessons early.

there's probably some lessons he's going to have to learn like now that he's in the UFC or maybe he's just that good. We don't know. But that's like one other thing I want to mention about Ricky Simone is this guy has paid his dues. This guy went through all the phases that fighters go through where I'm better than everybody says I am almost too big for his britches and then he gets humbled a little bit and then he comes back and he gets put in a big spot, thinks he's too big for his britches again, gets humbled a little bit even though he wins. And then he has losses to font and favor. But now I feel like the dues have been paid. The britches are just right.

Like he went to the tailor and they put those britches on just right. And I think he's right there. And I think Muhammad has just always been too big for his britches. And he just likes it that way. Like there's no, there's no false confidence in this man whatsoever. This guy already thinks he could beat the Brennan Royviles of the world. And I've said this on this very program before.

And I'm going to just say it again for those who missed it. Muhammad Mahiahev will not just be the UFC flyway champion in the next two years. By 2025, 2025, 26, he will be a two division champion. He will be the flyway champion and he will be the Bannamway champion. Wow. Because I am that, like he's still, like, as good as he is now, he's still green and he's not even near his athletic prime yet. We're just getting, like, we are literally just scratching the surface of this guy. Wait till five years from right now when that greenness turns to gold.

Oh my gosh. Like, this could be the guy. Oh, gosh. This could be the guy. You have a poster of Mike? It's just like a, and then on your ceiling and your. bedroom. He's just gobbling up all the property on Mahayev Island right now. There's no one, there's none left for anyone to buy. You have a poster of Makaya on your wall and then below that

your word of the day calendar, which has britches on it, I guess, because I don't have ever heard that word. So much on the show before. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, A.K., you know, like I'm just a poster guy. I'm just a, you know, one of the, you know, just look at the posters to motivate. I'm a motivational poster kind of guy and Maham and Bahaiv should be the face of all of those. He's that good. A.K., where are you on the Mahia of Britches? I mean, I'm in the opposite side, but I'm this with every young prospect. People know this. People know this.

I'm the one who's been, like, you know, putting the water in the Aaron Blanchfield hype train. And like, I just need to see more. Like, these are kids. Makayev's just celebrated his birthday on Saturday, this past Saturday. He turned 22. He turned 22. I know, I know. By the way, does that mean he was born in 2000?

He is born. Correct. Yes. I know. That's not good. I don't know. I don't like this at all. I understand you can't just look at his pro record. Like, again, he does have that extensive amateur record. But also, for me, that tells me he just stuck around amateur too long. I'd have to look into it more. If there's Mokai of experts out there and I'm wrong and like it's like, oh, no, this was like the right time. I understand. Which I mean, also he would have been, if he jumped in any earlier, he'd been freaking like 18 years old. So maybe he couldn't have done it. But he's so he just turned 22, which is insane. He is already the number 12. He's 22. He's 22. with two fights the UFC in the number 12 ranks guy in our rankings, the Flywood Division, which I think is a very strong division.

That's crazy. But it feels fair. I like how they match them up next. Malcolm Gordon, UFC 280, October 22nd, very smart matchup. Good old Canadian boy getting thrown into the fire. That's fine. I won't take it personally. So it's a very logical matching.

If he beats Malcolm Gordon definitively like he handled Charles Johnson, like he handled Cody Durden, I'll get a little more excited. but I am always with all young prospects. I need to see more. So I'm not as like, you know, big as saying like, oh, he'll definitely be in the top seven by this time next year. Though I,

though when you framed it that way, though, I did see some names so I think he could pass like, oh, where's our, well, looking at our top seven, I could see him passing Ascarov. I could see him passing Ascarov. Ascarov is very good, but I just think like a year from now,

Makayev could be at the point where he could be either better than just beat him or be better than him or put together a resume that is, lets him edge into the top seven. But so I'm, I'm a little more optimistic about that. The two division champion thing,

man, I don't know. It's just so early. I just always think of Brandon Vera. And listen, that's night and day. You know, Brandon Vera is a different fighter

from a different era, different divisions. Brandon Barra is like, I'm going to be a two division champion. I just didn't expect to Brandon Vera mentioned on this show. And he never came close. He never came close. He never became.

Hey, he's a one championship, two division champion. Or was. I don't know if that. That's definitely not anymore. I think you only won the one title in one, right? Didn't you only win the one?

I don't know. The one in one? The fact that we don't know for sure tells you how... Two billion people do, AK. I guess we're not one of them. God, I can't until Roberto Soldiers gets to be watched by two billion people. It's the biggest promotion of the world. It's too early for me to say.

It's fun to project. I don't... I'm supposed to be the prince of positivity. And I am positive, but I'm not always the prince of like, like, you know, absurd optimism. I can't go... I can't go down that road. I need to see more. Give me two more Makaya fights before I start saying he's definitely going to be champion.

He's definitely going to be a bit. Those are two of the strongest divisions in all of MMA. 125, 135. So would you say, AK, and I feel like you're the right person to ask this question to, would you say he might need one more win before we start throwing him in there with former interim champions and things like that? Because Patty Pimblit, I mean, you're ready to throw him right in there with Tony Ferguson. Let's go, Mike!

What does he have to do? What else do you have to do? What? You can throw him in there. I didn't say he's going to win. You can throw him back. You can throw him in there with, who's there.

You could go in there with Kairkar-France if you want. I have no problem with it. I don't think you should. That's utterly absurd. But he's not, he doesn't have the fame, but he doesn't have the intrigue of Patty Pimble. That's a whole other thing.

And you brought up Patty, Mike. I didn't bring up Patty. You brought up Patty. You want this? Mike Hanks chose violence and I'm here for it. I just had to, you know. We slow rules, almost everybody, but, but Patty, Patty, we don't need to.

He's 3-0. What did I say? He's 3-0. Is Makai have 3 and O in the UFC? He will be. Okay, well, we don't know that. Mokin Gordon, don't count him out. But listen, we don't.

He's not 3 and O. And also, he has way more pro. He has a 20, he had a name. He had a name coming to the UFC. He had like a legitimate, like, there was a legitimate buzz there heading into the UFC. It's like fame-wise are totally different. Bay, find me the equivalent of the flyweight, a fly-weight Tony Ferguson.

And you want to throw me with Mikhail? I'm all for it. The constant disrespect. Just the constant al-ocooey disrespect is so ridiculous. I don't even need to do this. I think he would win. I think he would win. I'm just saying it's a great fight.

Yeah, and cool. And then he's fighting like top five lightweights for the rest of his career. That's just a great time for everybody. Call him out. Tony Ferguson call him out. You guys both targeted Ask or Ask Office, maybe the name on that top seven that he could kick out. That feels right to me.

I think I probably split the difference where I'm not like this guy's going to be a two division champion in the next few years, but I am maybe a little higher on him than AK. Where do you fall, Stephen? Two division champion seems a little bit, uh, a little bit presumptuous at this point. There are so many different ways to lose in this sport,

and flyweight is such a competitive division. This guy is an out-and-out star, and so he will get those opportunities sooner than others. But I have questions as to whether his wrestling dominance will, how he'll do against the top five, basically. You know, those guys like, you know, Moreno, Figgi, Perez, Royval, you know, Pantoja, those guys are all well-rounded threats. And I think we haven't really seen the full array of his talent yet.

We're about to because he's a star, and that's very clear. And so he'll get not the red carpet up to the top five, but he'll get a manageable path. I don't necessarily disagree with you on the Askrov. I think that's definitely maybe the lily pad that he jumps on to get there. but I don't know it's the prince of negativity I would say it's too soon to say you know

too soon I'm adopting that as a nickname now we're using that well let's move on fellas we have two last quick things we want to hit and actually speaking of flyweight and Pantosia because we mentioned him a couple times

he is sort of falling into this spot as we mentioned earlier where it's pretty obvious at this point that he deserves a title shot and it's also pretty obvious that he's just not going to get one anytime soon. It's just the way the division is playing out right now. But there's just a lot of that going on in the UFC right now. You look all throughout the promotion. There are probably four or five names you could cobble up who reasonably deserve a title shot and they're just not going to get

it because the circumstances outside of their control. And so just real quickly, Mike, of this list, you can even just one word this, two word this if you want. Of this list, who is getting most screwed out of a title shot right now? Magoamad and Kalayaev, Yaya Rodriguez, Marina Rodriguez, Pantosia or Ketland Vera? Pantosia. It's Pantosia. I think I agree with you. Yeah, I mean, it's not like he's getting screwed.

It's just, he is just the baron of bad timing right now. He's just, I'll say to you, Mr. Pantosia is this. Whatever Yayaeur Rodriguez is trying to do right now, don't do that. Okay. Don't do that. Take, fight, go fight, Kai Kar, France. Like, maybe the end of the year. Because, I mean, you look at Brandon Mariano and Kai Kar, France, like next to

each other side by sides after that fight and you would think if you didn't know the result that kaykar franz beat the hell out of brand of marino because kai car franz didn't even look like he was in a fight marano looked like he fought five guys at once so i it's not out of the realm of possibility that kkf can come back at the end of the year but if you're pantosia like try to whenever they put moreno and figurato together you fight kkf on the undercard like underneath on that same card be the backup guy be on that same card and as long as as long as as long as you know as you win, you're next. Like, you're getting the fight. As long as you win, you're next. But waiting is not the best idea. And I think Pantosia is kind of aware of that. Like,

he knows he has a compelling case to fight for the belt. But I think he knows that he's just, he's just in a place of horrible timing right now. So go fight KKF, get another win. And then you're next, brother. You're next. Just win that next fight. And you're in. But don't say, I'm going to wait. I don't care if it takes me five years. I just won't fight for five years. I'm just going to fight Moreno or figurato. Just take one more. Get in there. Go fight for your belt.

I'd say by middle end of 2023, he'll get his title shot. So yeah, I think he's the guy, but it's, I don't think he's getting screwed. I just in the worst place right now. Really bad. I was stunned. You mentioned Yair. I was stunned by what Yaiir did on Saturday with like the, I don't want to fight for an interim.

I'm going to wait for Volcanowski. That feels like such a perfect encapsulation of this dude's a whole entire UFC career of just like, you might have been a legendary fighter and we've just never found it out because you're constantly in these spots where you're just making the wrong call on this stuff he didn't he didn't say i don't want to he said i'm not i'm not fighting josh emmett i'm not fighting for an interim title i am fighting alexander volkadovsky and of course day to white was asked about that he rolled his eyes and said ha you know how i feel about people who say they're going to wait and then he moved on that's never a good sign great impression he of a one-fight win streak that was an injury occurring

and that was it like that's what you're you're rolling off of um i agree with you with pantosia like i can't imagine the frustration that dude must have been feeling all week when you're seeing these two guys in the co-man event fighting for this title that you've beaten both of them and like one of them twice like you're three and all against this and it's just that you're not even in the conversation uh stephen where do you fall the prince of negativity where do you fall among this group who's getting the most screwed how do people feel about benille d'arouche oh yeah that's a good That's a great one too. That's a good call too.

I think it might be just another barren of bad timing situation, but, you know, the guy has built a seven-fight winning streak. It's not as long as Islam Makachevs, but he also, you can make the argument for, you know, beating Tony Ferguson

in the way that he did, kind of having, putting the nail in Tony's, you know, coffin, so to speak, maybe, possibly. And then Michael Chandler came on the scene. You know, Justin Gage, got another. shot. Raphael Fiziev is like being

talked of as a title contender. And then there is the ever, ever present specter of Connor McGregor's ghost. That's the thing. And now Gamrod, who we actually have to fight. Now he has to fight. And now Gamrod just, that's right. Even if Charles beats Islam,

Connor's probably going to get that next shot and Benil's still going to be out. That's correct answer. I'm changing my answer to the Prince of Negativity's answer. I could just go with Prince of Darkness if that's easier. Oh, my gosh. That is a good call, though, because his feels like, even if he wins this next fight,

he's going to be on this prolonged sort of path of frustration because of the Irishman. Right. It's like we've got nobody else. Okay, you can have your title of, Anil. You're 45. You've won like 12 fights in a row. We'll finally let you get it. A.K., where do you land on this?

I'll toss Marina, Marina Rodriguez out there. just because she's a little bit in the same boat as Benile, we're like, one, she has a super tough fight ahead of her now. Now she has to fight Amanda Lamoche, who's one of the boogie women of that division. I mean, I know she got beat by Andrage, but whatever. I mean, everyone gets beat by Andrash. Outside of that, she just ran through Michelle Waterson. And now that's another huge name that Marina has to beat.

And Marina has beaten a lot of the same people that the current champion, Carla Sparza beat, Jan Shauna, Michelle Watterson. So, and she fought Asparza to a very controversial split decision. So it's like, she should have had her title fight already. you like but you know again we were fine with the sparsa getting at first but now as sparsa again might have fight uh jang we lee god knows if nomen juniors can get a big win and watch that horrible first the taste of that uh horrible first fight out of everyone's mouths maybe she gets another shot at carla the trilogy bout um god that's no one wants to see that you know again if people

forget easily people forget easy no one's forgetting that one man everyone forgot the new nez chepchenko fight the second one that was real bad uh It was a forgettable fight. Yeah, there you go. But Marina, again, she probably could have, she has the resume to probably have fought for the title already. I think she would, I frankly would pick her to beat Carlos Sparza. So that's one thing she has over some of these other names we mentioned, other than maybe Ankaa Lyev is like, I think she could be the UFC champion if she got her shot. Like I would favor her over Carla Sparza, probably.

But that's not going to happen anytime soon because Zhang Wili is going to slip in there. Like I said, maybe some sort of rematch, Namajunas. Mackenzie Duren who she's beaten is like a bigger name than her though and could who knows leapfrog there's just so many bad things that can happen for Marina and again she's probably good enough to be the champion and I don't know if or when she ever gets her shot and that's kind of sad yeah you're not wrong I mean she just doesn't belong to sort of that big group that we have at 115 right of the the popular names the former champions everyone like that last thing for us today fellas and this one's more of a personal one for for AK. Oh, let's do it. It feels fitting. We let people take victory laps on this show. It's sort of, you know, there's bragging rights with these sort of things.

And I would say, AK, you deserve one. Thank you. We may poke fun over the months at some of your ranking tactics, your loyalty to certain old veterans, old dogs. You really hold on to them much longer than everybody else. We've been haranguing your loyalty to Volcanoz de Mir for months now. the man was struggling. He hadn't won in like nearly three years, not since 2019. And the rest of us pretty much gave up on him. But you always believed, my man. You kept him in your top 10 through thick

and thin. I think coming into this month, you were pretty much the sole reason he was actually clinging to like a number 15 spot. And now the man just went and did the damn thing in UFC London, dominates Paul Craig, vaults back to number 11 this month. And he's left you sitting pretty freaking validated here, my man. So I'll give the floor to you. You, uh, it's, you, you, you, You were the man of the hour with Volcanozimir. You called it. You say poke fun. It gets a lot more hurtful than that, Shaheen, especially from you in particular.

Oh, come on. Who has really been busted my chops about to both on the show, sending me personal messages on the Slack attacking me for. This is all true. This is true. Let me tell you something, guys. I had no, I never worried about, despite all, everything that Shaheen said to me, I never worried about Akimu's Dimeer in the top 10 because I always felt his resume was still, was still very strong. Okay, so he was, he fought his way into the top five when he got to the

UFC, got a bunch of big wins, got a title shot. Loses Anthony Smith, fine, loses to Dominic fine. Those are top 10 guys. Okay, you drop him out of the top five. I completely understand. And then he just, and then he picks up a couple of wins. Latifi, Rockich, Rokch, very close fight, but still beat him. That is the, the fight that Sheen was talking about, which was several years ago now. And then he loses to Yeri Pohaska and Angolaev, two of the, I think, top five, top seven light heavy weights in the world. And, and that is like, that to me does not make you lose your spot. Those are really great fighters. don't lose your spot. So he was certainly hanging by a thread, but to drop him in favor of, I don't

know, like Nikita Krillov, I don't know, Jamal Hill, like those guys from me had not done enough to pass him yet. We have to have respect for veterans. Now, Jehine is right. I'm very rigid. I do hang on to people for too long, but there's a reason for that. As the rest of the staff found out recently, I keep personal databases. I've been keeping personal databases, my own personal databases, of rankings, of records for like the last like 15 years. Like I've been doing this for a long time. They're thorough. Like I was supremely impressed with this.

And I've been keeping a rankings. I have been keeping an iteration of the rankings, an updated iteration of the rankings for that same amount of time. I've been doing rankings forever. So when Shaheen came up to me with the cute idea of like, oh, we should actually do a ranking for MMA fighting. I was like, I'm way ahead of you, brother. I got my own methodology.

I got my own methodology. The foundation is set. I have set. you guys are starting fresh you guys are like maybe having your mind who's top dead like whatever i have had it in there's metadata in my you know what i mean that exists on the web and google on a google drive somewhere in the cloud that's all my rankings over the last you know however many years so i am not so quick to move people out of physician i don't get bored i don't treat this like a game like these are toys like oh this person's been in the spot for too long i'm just going to move someone ahead of no no this is this is i

told you i told this is the jean before this is my rankings are like a boncine tree. I've been very carefully sniffing away at this bonseye tree for a long, long, long time and I don't just start sniffing off branches because the 22-year-old... In your ground floor apartment in the San Fernando

Valley? That's right, because some 22-year-old flyway comes along and starts body slamming people. Oh, then I start chipping off branches. That's not how a bonsai tree works. That is not how my rankings work. Volkan Usdemir is a top 10 light heavyweight. I was right. Well, technically, he's number 11

for us. But I do apologize to you, A.K., you were right. That being said, I would like an apology from you for keeping Connor McGregor in the rankings like six years after his only like relevant win at lightweight. That's all. He's number 16. He's number 16 in my rankings, buddy. You're lucky he's not a far.

He's that close. He's that close. Oh, well, you know, sometimes you take L's and I took an L this month. I'm only, I'm mad enough to admit that. Now when Daryntill and Kelvin Gasselm, that's a different conversation for a different day for you because you're still the only one hanging on to those two. I'll be vindicated by them too. I'll be vindicated.

In the meantime, that is all of it for us this month. We appreciate you guys, as always, for joining into the MMA Fighting Rankings Show. A fun one. Thank you so much to Stephen Morocco for joining us for the first time. We'll have to have you back. The Prince of Darkness, as he calls himself now. I really enjoy that. Also, Mike Heck, it's always fun having you.

That man is A.K. Lee. I am Sean O'Shati. Please keep it locked to M.M.A. fighting for all your M.M.A. coverage needs. We love you guys. And we'll see you soon. I miss my, I miss my, I miss my, I miss my opening. Do Rodney Dayfield? Oh, my God. Mike, I tried. I tried. No, no, you did it. And then I was going to jump.