MMA Fighting - Raquel Pennington: Dana White, Joe Rogan Scored UFC 307 Title Loss To Julianna Pena For Me

Episode Date: October 13, 2024

Former UFC women's bantamweight champion Raquel Pennington discusses her UFC 307 title loss to Julianna Pena, the controversy surrounding the scorecards, why she feels she won the first round, if there was frustration re-watching it, having new motivation, Kayla Harrison, a potential Amanda Nunes return, and more with MMA Fighting's Mike Heck.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You have competitive fights. They go to the decisions, and it just takes that one person to take away everything from somebody. And they don't realize, I feel like they just really don't realize what they're doing, yet they're the ones with the best seat in the house.

They're the ones that are supposed to be doing the best job. And it's like, it's crazy to me how every single social media outlet, every single, like there wasn't even another one that said Pena. It was every single social media outlet, said Penington, And, you know, I've had numerous top athletes reach out to me. I've had Dana White, freaking Hunter, Joe Rogan, John Anick, D.C., like, everybody who's sitting right there and everybody's just like, no way, like, we don't understand this. Nobody understood it. I didn't understand it.

Like, it was, I mean, they had my family lined up ready to come in there. And then when they announced it, like, they were like, is Bruce like playing a joke here? Really. All right, let us say hello to unfortunately the now former UFC Women's Van and Way champion, Raquel Pennington. I can just see the look of despair as she hears that, but she joins us less than a week after the split decision loss, a controversial one at that to Juliana Pena at UFC 307. Raquel, thank you for doing this. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. It's never great to do interviews after a loss, but here we are five days later.

You're obviously quite confident you won the fight as are a lot of other people. What is life like five days later as we speak? How has this been to digest since Saturday? You know, I mean, I made the travel home and stuff. And just initially after everything was said and done, I've been in this position before as far as going to the judges. But I will tell you, going into that decision, like I've never felt so confident,

especially a world title fight, you know, It's kind of one of those situations where it's like you really have to beat the champ to be the champ. And I do not feel like that was the situation at all. You know, I've talked with the UFC staff. I've talked with multiple other athletes and just like everybody's feedback and just the whole thing. It's a really weird position to kind of be in. It's a little confusing, a little frustrating. But at the end of the day, like my heart hurts, but my head is high.

You know, I'm still blessed in life. I'm grateful for everything that I have and grateful for these opportunities. So, you know, I mean, I don't know. That's kind of where I'm at right now. I want to talk about specific moments of the fight that stood out to me, especially at the rewatch and questions I have about different moments of it. But we hadn't seen Giuliana compete in over two years since the loss to Amanda Nunes. Did anything surprise you in the fight?

Was she everything you expected her to be? Is there anything she did that threw you off at all? She slowed her game down. You know, I know below was in her corner and he was yelling at her. there was moments where she would all of a sudden try to come blitzing forward a little bit and he was screaming at her to stop. So just in general, I think she got controller herself in that aspect. But other than that, I mean, aside from just really slowing down,

I feel like she was still the same athlete. Have you gone back and rewatched it? Yeah, I've watched the fight. I just like, I don't know. I've watched the fight a couple of times. I've broken it down a few times. You know, I'll tell you, I like that head kick I threw in that overhand right. That was pretty.

And the crazy part is watching, like, knowing me and seeing, you know, when I landed that right on her and dropped her, it wasn't even my full power. And so it was just fun to, you know, overall watch and everything. It's always fun to go back regardless of where you're at. I mean, winning, losing, you can always learn something. And so I like going back and just watching all the fights and stuff. But I mean, obviously it brings a different, brings a different emotion with this one. The fight was very competitive. There are a lot of swings, right?

But the last four rounds, crystal clear. Two and three went to her. Four and five went to you. And the first round is the proverbial swing round that decided the fight. Two judges gave it to Juliana. One judge gave it to you. I scored the first round for you watching it live, but I was also doing a watch party. So sometimes things are a little bit all over the place.

So I want to sit back and rewatch it. it seemed closer in the second watch, if I'm being honest, but I still thought you won the route because, yes, she landed more strikes, but it just appeared that your shots meant more. The poker faces to me seemed vastly different. Like you were like, okay, you hit me with the jab. When you hit her, you could see her expression change.

It just was a whole different thing. Your fewer shots to me had more impact than her landing more. Is that what you saw and felt as well when you rewatched it? Yeah, absolutely. And when it comes to this judges, like, they need to make it very clear because a lot of them say that the damaging shots are what's scoring. I had, like you just said, I had the damaging shots. And it's just like, you know, it just gets frustrating. It gets frustrating from just an overall being a competitor and the athlete in that situation, but not even just my fight.

Like, I have no idea what the judges were seeing that night in general. Like, I even feel bad for Jose Aldo. I mean, his fight was like the same thing. It's just, it's crazy to me what these judges do, you know? At the end of the day, like, you have competitive fights. They go to the decisions and it just takes that one person to take away everything from somebody. And they don't realize, I feel like they just really don't realize what they're doing. And yet they're the ones with the best seat in the house.

They're the ones that are supposed to be doing the best job. And it's like, it's crazy to me how every single social media outlet, every single. Like there wasn't even another one that said Pennie. It was every single social media outlet said Pennington. You know, I've had numerous top athletes reach out to me. I've had Dana White, freaking Hunter, Joe Rogan, John Anick, D.C., like, everybody who's sitting right there and everybody's just like, no way. Like, we don't understand this. Nobody understood it.

I didn't understand it. Like, it was, I mean, they had my family lined up ready to come in there. And then when they announced it, like, they were like, is Bruce like playing? in a joke here. Like, like, it was just, it was, it was all really weird. But, you know, I wasn't the only athlete on that card that situation's happened to. And you see it happened in multiple other events. And it's, it's honestly just sad.

Like, there should be different qualifications or something for these judges. Like, they need to look into it a little bit different because this happens way too often. Yeah, I think the scoring model just stinks in MMA anyways, because you're using a boxing system and an MMA fight and it just doesn't work overall. Like round four, you come out, you get a mouthful from your corner and you come out and you kick her in the head and you hurt her bad and she's in real trouble. And then you drop her real bad a little while later in the biggest moment in the fight. And in boxing, you land a knockdown like that.

She loses an entire point unless things get real, real weird. My colleague, if you look at MMA decisions, he's the one guy who scored it a drug. because he gave you a 10-8 in the fourth round because of the knockdown. And maybe he obviously agreed that the judges wouldn't do that. But how a 10-9 in round 1, 2, 3, and 5 are scored exactly the same as a 10-9 in round 4. It just doesn't make sense. But do you understand where Jed's coming from giving you a 10-8 in the 4th when all those other rounds are scored 10-9? It's like you said, it's just the scoring is just overall crazy.

Like I feel like something definitely needs to change with it. I know a lot of athletes have spoken about open scoring and being able to see like your score in between rounds. You know, that might play out for more exciting fights, which is lighting a fire under people. But something definitely just, it needs to change in general. But at the end of the day, I mean, it is what it is. Like I said, I mean, it took a lot for me. I personally don't feel like I lost that fight at all. So like I said, my head is high.

I do want the rematch. But with that being said, like we all know Juliana's, around forever, whether it's an injury or she just, she tends to sit around forever. I don't know. I definitely want the rematch and stuff, but at the end of the day, I feel like the real world title fight comes from me and Kayla. I think it would be an exciting fight and a completely different challenge. And then, you know, let Juliana do whatever the hell she wants to do right now. But at the end of the day, like, I do want to get back to the world title and I want my belt back. Um, so I don't know. I mean, I, uh, like I said, I mean, the frustration's there. I

don't really have words for it all and whatnot. But at the end of the day, it's competition. They gave her the win. So whatever, congratulations to her. Uh, I definitely know I'm going to be back stronger and better than ever. And I'm motivated on a completely different level. Uh, I have no injuries. I mean, I did go get my hands x-rayed from cracking her so hard. Uh, my hands are definitely hurt. Um, but aside from that, Like, I mean, I came out of that fight completely healthy. And it's just, like I said, I'll be back. I want to enjoy a little bit of time off.

It was a great fight camp overall. It was an exciting fight week. Like, just everything came full circle, you know. I truly feel blessed. I really feel grateful for the life that I live. And, you know, I mean, it was just, it was really cool. Being the world champion, going into like my photo shoot, having my family there. I don't know if the world saw, but, you know, UFC surprised the layer.

with a little world title belt and just in general like i mean the overall positivity the love and the support uh being so close to home my family being there like our entire family was there from colorado from florida like it was just overall there's so much positive to take from it it was a really great fight week um and at the end of the day like like i said i'm genuinely blessed i'm grateful for this life um i'm definitely definitely way more motivated and excited uh for what the future holds um And I know that, you know, at the end of the day, like, I still feel like a champion. So it doesn't matter. That's good to hear.

I just have one more question about the fight because, I mean, obviously, I do a ton of live programming for the site. We're watching the fight live. We did the reactions. And then we're doing like the matchmaking shows after. And one thing that, especially after the rewatch, I was like, in my eye, she should be the champion. And I also felt like that when you go back and rewatch the fight, I was like, I have a feeling she's got to be a little bit frustrated. that there are moments throughout where maybe you're a little too tentative. And I understood the take down threats and all that.

What, when you rewatch it, you said there's always things you want to learn and take away. Did you experience any frustration at all? Like, ah, man, like in the fourth round in particular, you drop her.

Is there a part of you that wishes that she stood back up and you could have just kept punching it? Like, what was the rewatch like from that aspect? Absolutely. And, you know, just in general, like,

I mean, I've had Dana on my case since I've been with the UFC. as far as letting my hands go. You know, I've crossed multiple coaches just going to gyms and it's like, hey, can you warm me up real quick when I'm helping other athletes and other coaches are like, dude, you hit harder than some dudes that we've held for, you know, my own coaching staff and they're always telling me just to believe in my hands. And so like, you know, there was a lot of positive to go from this fight.

Just in general, like, you know, my sports psychology and my mental training, I've never felt so calm going into a fight. Like the way that I learned how to control my emotions, the way that I was just completely present in the octagon and just like, you know, I felt like it felt like a spa session with bad intentions is a simple way to like put a perspective to it because like in sparring, like I have a little bit of emotion. The adrenaline starts kicking in. But like there's no nerves. Like I'm confident in my abilities and stuff. And then of course going into a fight like, you know, I mean, I still have yet to let my hands go the way that I know I'm capable of. the way that I do every time in the gym, I mean, my sparring partner was out there and he's like, dude, like, this chick didn't stand a prayer if you would have just let your right hand go multiple times. And so, yeah, like, I throw a lot more jabs and different combinations. And then really I should have just been, like, completely bombing my right hand. You know, and after I, like, proved to caught her and proved to myself how I could just drop her like that, like it was like a freaking shark sensing blood after that. Like, like,

I was just, it was exciting, but she was obviously on the ground and the game plan wasn't to go to the ground with her. You know, and even with that being said, like, I'm a well-rounded mixed martial artists. I do have a great ground game to me. I didn't feel the need to do anything when she took me down because, you know, I mean, the same thing. It was just kind of like, they come in for the roles meeting and they're like, hey, if there's no action and everybody knows, like, you know, Julianna is very active off her back. But when she's on top of you, she's not that active. like she tends to hold people down a little bit more. And so I was like, okay, cool.

Like, he's like, if there's no action within 10 to 15 seconds, you guys are getting stood back up. So that went into my strategy. But yeah, I was like, well, there's no reason to waste any extra energy. So I purposely held on to her when she took me down. And, you know, like, I mean, at the end of the day, she'll just switch that game plan. And that's why the second time around was like,

all right, we got to get up and move around. But, yeah, I mean, I don't care who you are. I don't care how great you are. I don't care how long you've been in this sport. I don't care what your name is. You know, and the world's always going to say different

with different things and whatnot. But I mean, every athlete, that's the cool part about mixed martial arts is you constantly get to grow. The sport is constantly evolving. There's different things that you constantly learn about yourself. You can go out there. And one night you can have the greatest performance of your life.

The next night you can have the absolute worst performance of your life. Next time it could be in between. Like, you just never know. and it's just it's interesting like what happens with all of us athletes and so you know i mean like i said it was an overall positive fight week it was great i had a phenomenal camp um you know i mean going into the fight like so many things were unlocked within me like there's a lot a lot of positive to take out of it um and at the end of the day i mean i was never handed any of this i've been doing this for 14 meters i've worked my way to the complete top i've had the world you know i've been

underdog my entire career. I've had the world constantly going against me and stuff. And like, I've just been out there doing my thing and having fun with it. And so, you know, as much as like, like I said, I still see myself as a champion. I still truly believe that I'm going to be the champion again written on paper. And so it's just, it's a matter of time. This is just another bump in the journey. You know, I mean, it started with the ultimate fighter.

People said that you had to win the ultimate fighter in order to give the UFC. that wasn't my case. And I got in the UFC and I've been with the UFC now for over 11 years. And I've climbed mountains and I've fallen and I've climbed multiple other mountains. And, you know, it's so I'm just, it's one step at a time. And, you know, there's nothing that I can do about it at the end of the day. They claim Giuliana is the world champion. I will always feel different with it. But like I said, I mean, there's positive to come out of it. And it lit something different inside me. So there's an excitement to be. said with that. Yeah, I thought, and we had talked about it on shows all week. We thought you were like the MVP of fight week. And it wasn't, I mean, you were, you were kind of jabbing a little bit with

Juliana. It's not like she was stayed silent, but I thought you were quick-witted. There's just a vibe to you where the confidence of it was there. It's almost like, it was like a full circle moment for you, right? Like you talked about the mountains and the climb and it just almost like everything was just, it just clicked perfectly all fight week for. Every time you were in front of a camera or a microphone, you obviously felt that way too, right? It wasn't just even like being in front of a mic and in front of the camera and stuff. Like just when I say everything, like, you know, there's a lot that goes into fighting. There's a lot when it, the stars really, like you need to really have your ducks in a row.

And a lot of people are like, man, this person's so talented. But what the heck, they sucked up fighting tonight. You never know what's going on in an athlete's life and whatnot. So many people get caught up in us just being fighters that there's so much more behind it. It's like that iceberg effect, you know. People get to see what's on top of the water, but they don't see all the underneath, what goes into their personal lives, what goes into training camp, what injuries they're having, all the different things that is going on.

And for me, it was crazy because, you know, I mean, I had a neck procedure at the start of camp. Like, I've been struggling with a neck injury for multiple camps, and it's caused shoulder injuries. it's caused elbow injuries. Like it's been a chain effect. And so it's just been extremely miserable. And this time I took the chance and I went in and I had the neck procedure done. And it was like, all right, this is either going to go one of two ways. It's going to be great or it's going to be absolutely terrible.

And for me, it was great. It was, I mean, it took everything away. And it was the first camp in probably like five or six camps that I've genuinely had fun. Like, you know, I was able to feel like myself. Everything just came full circle there. I was having fun in the gym. You know, my family really stepped up and we learned the definition of it takes a village to raise a baby. And it was just really cool seeing, you know, Aalaya being taken care of why both her parents are chasing their dreams.

And so just having that. And then, you know, living this life with your partner and getting ready to be on the same bite card. Then you have your, it's close to home. You have your entire family come in to support you. Like it was my family here in Colorado. plus all our close friends, Tisha's close friends from down south and then both our Florida families. Like there's just so many blessings. And then Fight Week, you know, like I said, I mean, just being there as a family and presenting that little girl, like,

I was 16 months old and she doesn't even know what she's experiencing. But like these moments, this life is such a unique lifestyle and it's so cool to be able to live this life and chase this passion. And then to have your little girl right there and she has no clue what she's, experiencing but to be able to look back on this like how could you not be positive how could you not be happy through it all like it was just all positive vibes everything truly came full circle for me and i mean i was going out there for my first title defense like there it's a history fight it's a fight that i've been looking forward to for a long time like yeah everything absolutely aligned this uh that past week and so it was just you know it was it was exciting for me oh in

every single aspect and i think the the build and just everything that came out of that card was really refreshing for 135 because since Amanda retired, there was always these gaps that needed to be filled. And now it's kind of like the three horsewomen right now. It's you and Juliana and Kayla. And then Norma Dumont's coming. And there's Macy Chieson who you have a win over who's on a nice little run right now. Like things are starting to pick back up at 135. Absolutely. You know, I mean, it's kind of like when Ronda left. to everybody. You have Amanda who, you know, she started a very successful run for herself, but the world was just absolutely hating on her. And it was just like, oh, Rhonda left, like,

this division sucks. And then all of a sudden, Amanda just completely took over and it's like, okay, Amanda left, this division sucks. Like, and that's, you know, the world has a hard time when it comes to change initially. But the women's Vantamate Division actually has a lot of talent. And that's why even this past part, you know, with the matchup between Ketlin and Kayla, like, I thought it was extremely disrespectful to not give Ketland any credit. She's a very talented fighter. She packs a punch. You know, it's a different ballgame.

Like, women are in this division for a reason. And so it's just like, it's really interesting to see. It was really cool that they put, like, some of the top fights on the card. and so that way the world can actually see a lot more talent that's there but yeah I mean there's there's talent here and I feel like the division

definitely needs a lot more credit yeah and now we're you know we spend 14 months trying to rebuild and now Amanda's teasing she might come back she's dancing around and calling for Dana what did you think of that you think it was a troll job or do you think she's serious about it no you know what I mean obviously Amanda and I have fought

but we've known each other since Invicta I've always supported her career she supported mine my family supports her and stuff um and then her and nina are two of tisha's closest friends so every time we go to florida we're down at their house i mean we stay with them half of the time and the kids get to play together and whatnot um and i mean they're competitors both of them and so it's not just even Amanda you know i mean i feel like it's something that everybody's known for a long time and as an athlete like when do you know the right time to walk away like this is a conversation that i actually have with other athletes and they're like i don't know I guess we'll figure it out.

And you see a lot of these athletes. They're like, okay, like, we're good. And they're in that phase in their life. And then all of a sudden it's like they're a natural born competitor. So, you know, I've had conversations with both Amanda and Nina and they're just like, eh, we're done for now type thing. And we might be coming back. And of course, Amanda, like, she's, I mean, she's been very successful with everything.

She's known as the goat. And she's done amazing things. And she loves to shut everybody's mouth. And so you had Kayla come in. and she's made the comment about the fact that she would love to just check Kayla. You know, we all know how she feels about Juliana. And she said that if Juliana ever got the bell back, she can't come back and beat the brakes off of her. So, I mean, I feel like I can't speak for Amanda, but I'm not surprised with her video at all.

Like, just knowing her as a person, knowing her as a competitor. And I'm sure the world would absolutely love to see her back. She looks in shape. she looks ready to go. Like that was like the biggest takeaway from that video was not even tagging day. And I was like, she's been putting in some work. Like you could just see it immediately. Like Tisha, who put in work before you fight.

You mentioned the specialness of sharing the card with her and having your daughter there. What was it like watching her fight? You're getting ready to defend your title for the first time in a huge fight, co-main event on pay-per-view. And here's Tisha trying to exact a little bit of revenge against Carla Sparza, who was fighting for the final time. Yeah, it's just, it's overall exciting. It's my idea to fight on the same cards as T-Shah.

T-Shia personally hates it. It stresses her out. So she was like, you know, if I asked for this card and they give it to me, I want to be the first five of the night. And it's like, okay, whatever makes you feel better. But I just feel like, you know, in general, it's easier for the team. It's a two-for-one deal with our family. For me, personally, like, it calms me down. And so, like, you know, we, we walk through the motions.

in training the way that it would be going into a fight. And so the same way we went into the gym, Tisha would spar first and then I would spar next. It was mimicking that night and it's like we've already done it. It was, I mean, of course I like being ringside or even in her corner and stuff. But I mean, I'm pretty sure everybody in the hotel heard me screaming at the TV and just kind of going at it. But, you know, I'm super proud of Tisha regardless of everything. and, you know, just to see her, I've seen the struggles that she's had, you know, I mean, she's lost two fights in very close decisions and whatnot, and it takes a toll.

The sport really does have the highest of highs and lows to lows. So to see her, you know, just kind of back out there and see that smile on her face and stuff and get the win on paper and everything, like, that's everything. And I'm just, I'm super excited for her. And like I said, I mean, it was just a really cool week just sharing everything. And, you know, I mean, she likes to be kind of in the mix of everything. So I had a very, very busy schedule. And she would get her stuff out of the way.

And then all of a sudden she would join in on my stuff. And it was just cool. Yeah, that's amazing. Sounds like it was a great fight week. I mean, obviously not the result you wanted, but your reaction to it all. I mean, obviously there's frustration. How could there not be? But it seems like you're, like you said, you're holding your head very high.

You're taking a lot of positives out of it. and I think there's a case here. Yeah, I'm the type person that, you know, I mean, life's going to be life. It's always going to throw curve balls, but it's about perspective and it's how we look at things, you know. And at the end of the day, I could sit here and I could be mopey. I could be frustrated. I could do all the things. But it's not going to get me anywhere.

The outcome is still the same and whatnot. So at the end of the day, like, you just pick up the positivity and you pick up those pieces. And, you know, you start your next path. And that's where I'm at. Like, you know, it. hit me at first and it was just like, okay, like, I shed some tears and I had my emotions to it all and whatnot. But like I said, I'm just that type person that I'm going to feel I'm going to process. And as soon as I feel that and I process, then I'm going to figure out an outcome, like,

the next situation to get an outcome that I want. Like, I'm a super ambitious person. I'm a super positive person. And so at the end of the day, like, it doesn't change who I am. It doesn't change the life that I'm living. You know, I still feel like whether I have a world title around my waist like I'm a champion in life I've worked so hard to get to where I'm at I'm definitely blessed I'm definitely grateful um but now here's just another little challenge you know I mean like so that's just where I'm at like as much as it sucks and whatnot I mean I have it tattooed on my foot I sign it to all my fans but I always say head up heart strong and so I will always keep my head up and my heart is going to stay strong try not to laugh right now I'm not laughing at you my son just

down stairs in front of me wearing a Sonic the Hedgehog costume. And I did not see that coming from a mile away. So I'm trying to try not to pray. He just like sprints by me with the Sonic costume on. That's great. Hey, come here. Come here, Gray. Show the costume.

Let's see it. Hey! That's awesome. Well done. Well done, buddy. All right. Sonic has made an appearance. And I don't know if we can get much better than that, Raquel.

So, again, tremendous attitude. I thought you had a great performance. It was a great fight and looking forward to to see when you get back there, very highly motivated, even more so. Raquel Pennington. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.