MMA Fighting - REACTION | Demetrious Johnson Retires From MMA — Will He Get UFC Hall of Fame Nod?

Episode Date: September 7, 2024

Former UFC flyweight champion, ONE flyweight champion, and one oof the greatest MMA fighters of all-time Demetrious Johnson announced his retirement from the sport at Friday night's ONE 168 event. MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew react to the news, reflect on one of the greatest careers in the history of the sport, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. All right, everybody. Hello, Mike Heck here from MFAiting.com here on this Saturday, early in the day compared to most times you would hear my voice on the Saturday. But we are here to react to some massive news announced last night by one of the greatest ever do it. And there you see it, Demetrius Johnson, the former longtime UFC Flyway champion,

the now former one Flyway champion. announced his retirement from mixed martial arts last night at one championship 168 in Denver makes the announcement in the same city coincidentally as his final fight in Denver, Colorado. He defeated Adriana Marais for the second straight time. It was one fight night 10 last year. And this is what he said last night. It was a very emotional retirement announcement, but the big quote that stood out to a lot of people, like I said last night, last time, excuse me, when I came to Denver, Colorado, I told you guys

was potentially my last fight, and I was not lying, I am done. I'm done competing in mixed martial arts. I want to thank you guys so much for giving me the opportunity, quite an emotional ride for Demetrius Johnson. But at 38 years of age, Mighty Mouse has called it a career, doing so with the record of 25, 4, and 1 and what a career was. So we are here to talk about DJ's incredible career. And we would need really a full 24 hours to contextualize all of it. But we're going to do the best we can in a short amount of time. And I'm sure we'll talk more on other programs about DJ announcing his retirement. But joining me right now to discuss this big news is Mr. No Gray area himself, Jed Michoud, who is perfect for this, in my opinion, because he hosts a tremendous show reflecting

on the careers of greatness. Damn, they were good. You could find it in the archives of the MA Fighting Podcasting Network. Jed, thank you for hopping on. First question. First question. What was your reaction to this news last night? That's pretty surprised, honestly. And probably in hindsight, maybe we shouldn't have been. He's 38. You know, it's not a stunner that he is laying it down. But like a couple of weeks ago, he went on Rampage Jackson's podcast and basically said,

I'm not officially retired. I might retire at some point officially. But for now, I'm just not that interested unless somebody comes in with a big opportunity, a big offer. I'm kind of focusing on other things. things. And to me, I thought that's how this would go. Like, it would be a Forrest Griffin retirement. A, he never really officially retires. He just stops competing. And then, you know, we internally, there were certainly some discussions when it was announced that DJ's going to make an announcement.

At one, it was like, okay, well, keep an eye on the broadcast, see what happens. The presumption was that it would be a fight. It would be a fight against somebody, maybe MMA, maybe not, but, you know, Maybe he's going to do a moiety fighter or something like that. Maybe he and Mikey Musumichi are going to, like, a lot of options were out there. And then it, lo and behold, it is this. And so I was pretty caught off guard on this because this is, you know, we're talking about one of the six best male MMA fighters of all time, pretty undeniably, in my opinion, one of the six best.

And so, like, that it's a pretty big deal for him to hang it up. Granted, with the major caveat that nobody retires an MMA and that, you know, him saying I'm retired does not close the door on him coming back next year. We've seen everyone basically do that. But assuming this holds true, I was surprised by how it happened. And honestly, a little, like, more sad than I sort of anticipated being. Agreed. What's crazy about all of this, and we'll run down some of the accolades in a moment.

but there are a lot of newer MMA fans over the past three or four years since the pandemic era when the UFC was kind of the only game in town that completely missed DJ's UFC run. And it's too bad because it was absolutely incredible. 15, 2 and 1 in the UFC, which includes three fights at Bannamweight. He competed in WEC before that as a Bannamweight as well. But it was the introduction of the UFC Flyweight Division where Demetrius Johnson really found his stride. He fights Ian McCald to a draw. This is when the UFC actually did tournaments.

They had a four-man tournament to crown the first UFC flyway champion. Fights Ian McCald to a draw. Then he beats him by decision in June of 2012. And then he goes on to fight Joseph Benavides in the finals of that tournament. UFC 152 wins the title via split decision. It was a very close fight. Personally, I thought the right guy won. And then DJ is just off to the races from there.

He would go on to defend that title 11 consecutive times. a UFC record. He beats John Dotson, John Maraga, beats Joseph Benavitas again to just silence all the doubters. This time he knocks him out in just over two minutes. Then he fights Ali Bogotinoff, Chris Carrioso, Kiochi Horaguchi, wins with the last second arm bar. He beats John Dotson again. Then he knocks out Henry Sohudo in the first round. Then he beats Tim Elliott, who earned his shot on the ultimate fighter,

Wilson Hase. And then Ray Borg with the Mighty Whiz Bar, one of the greatest submissions of all time. And if you have not seen Demetrius Johnson fight, I implore you, if you have never seen this finish, go to FightPass or ESPN Plus, go find UFC 216, go out of your way to watch it because this is an incredible performance from Demetrius Johnson

and the way this thing ends with him chucking a man up in the air and then as he's about to hit the ground, he puts this man in an arm bar and taps him. It's absolutely insane. And not only that, he breaks the record for the most consecutive title defenses at 11. He's tied with John Jones. Oh, he kind of like, so he had tied the record. Anderson Silva's win over Travis Luter doesn't count as a title defense, but that's garbage.

Like, Travis Luter missed weight, so that doesn't count as a title defense. So it is tied. Like, I know that officially it's not, but that's very, very silly. Like, Anderson Silver fought 11 times with the belt. fair. We deal with official stats here. At least today we're doing that. He's tied with John Jones with the most successful title defense is total in UFC history. Again, I know Jed will say that's probably not all that true because of the Travis Luter fight. But then he goes on to lose the title to Henry Sehudo, UFC 227 in August 2018. It was a split decision, a very contentious decision at the time. Had people torn, very close fight. I thought DJ won at 4847, but it was very, very close, not a robbery. and then he becomes part of, and call it whatever you want, but DJ was part of the first and at this point only major trade in major MMA history. He goes to one.

UFC gets Ben Ascran in a shocking move, considering all the things Dana White said about Ben Ascran in the previous years. He goes to one, he makes the most money he's ever made by a floppy jillion times, goes five and one in the promotion. He wins the flyweight title. Loses it to Adriana Marius, vicious knockout loss. Then he gets it back with a vicious knockout of his own 16 months later. In between, he has a mixed rules fight with Rod Tang, which was so fun, wins that one,

and then he beats Marias again in the final fight of his career. He holds pretty much every UFC flyweight record you can create or imagine. Nine performance bonuses, the accolades go on and on and on. And this is just sort of the Cliff Notes version running through the career of Demetius Johnson. And like I said earlier, we could do this for an entire day, maybe even an entire week. So, Jed, I want to bring you in. Let's do a little split screen action because I know when we talk about pound for pound and we have the go conversations, it's kind of a silly conversation because it is so subjective and your opinion is your opinion.

To me, and I know you said top six, to me, he is at worst, a Mount Rushmore fighter. And I think of a fan doesn't have him in their top five and I'll even throw in top six on their greatest ever list. then the list is just incorrect, right? Like, do you just feel the same way? If he's not top six, you're probably wrong here. It's not probably. You're just objectively wrong. And that's going to bother some people because they don't like when I use the word objectively.

But there are objective and subjective truths. And this is one of them. I love the pound for pound debate as much as the next person. I think it is endlessly fun to debate till I'm blue in the face with New York, Rick, that John Jones isn't the goat. ultimately it is kind of a silly debate but here's where I like come down

there are six male fighters who are in the discussion and there are only six and if they are incontrovertible and so whoever as long as your goat is among those six I don't really have an issue with it and then it's just us quibbling

or parsing out the order of those six but there is a pantheon tier of MMA fighters and Demetrius Johnson is in them. The male pantheon of MMA fighters is Demetrius Johnson, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo, George St. Pierre, John Jones, Fador Emilienenko. Those are the six. There are other people who you may be compelled or interested in arguing for. They ain't it.

It's those six dudes. That is the list. Habib, if he had hung around for longer, would have absolutely broken into the pantheon. But the reality is, his reign at the top was very sure. short. And so despite the fact that he's the greatest of all time in the best weight class of all time, he's just kind of left out of that conversation. And so as long as Demetrius is in your top six, I don't have a huge issue. I would personally, like if I am ordering those six, sometimes I'll just depend on how I'm feeling that day. Like, I'll go back and look and be like,

hey, man, this resume is a little better than I, than I've remembered. Or maybe I'm just feeling a little more partial to these performances on any particular day. Kind of if I am, if I'm doing my, DJ is probably higher than six, but as long as those six are in there at the top of your conversation, then you're doing fine. It's one of the, DJ is one of those, and I've been saying this for years that,

and I think the top two on this list are DJ and Daniel Cormier for the fighters who did not get enough credit while they were around, but we'll get more, get it more so once they're gone. I think when people go back and reflect on their careers, those are two guys, you're like, damn,

your show. Damn, they were good. Like, they were really, really good. And for being as great as DJ was, he is truly the king of the flyweight unders. And just unders in general. And what I mean by that is probably the most underrated, underappreciated, undervalued, all of the unders when you describe this band fighters ever, because he never got the push from the UFC that he deserved. He never got the promotion that he deserved. I don't think he got enough love from the fans. and I think a lot of it has to go to the former two points I just made. And what was great about DJs, he went out and did a lot of this stuff

to get as over as he ended up getting on his own. The video game streams and the Twitch and the social media stuff and this and that. And because of that, this man's greatness, what he was able to accomplish has just never gotten the respect that it deserves. And I feel like Daniel Cormier, as he retired, and I know he's a lot of newer fans, look at him as more of a, color commentator than a past fighter.

But I feel like the fans who didn't appreciate him while he was fighting appreciate him more. Now that DJ is retired, do you feel that the underappreciated, the undervalued, et cetera, adjectives you should describe this man? Do you feel that will change that he will be discussed now in the proper context? Or do you think that's just going to take a lot of time and a lot of reminding people about it? He's never going to get the credit he deserves. It's just that simple.

He, DJ didn't get the credit he deserved at the time because there was an idea that flyweight sucked, which was a very felonious idea. It was very, very ridiculous. I'm not here to say that every title defense he had was over an amazing all-time great fighter. But there are, if you look at his resume, a lot of very good names. And more to the point, literally every long-reaning champion has duds. Anderson Silva has Patrick Cotei and Talas Laites. Like those are Chris, that's the Chris Carrioso to DJ. Those things happen.

But flyweight, because it was a new weight class, had the panache or the patina of not being as good when it was actually a tremendously good weight class. His win over Joseph Benavides is as good a win as anyone has in the sport, frankly. Like Joseph Benavides is an unbelievable fighter who only is in a form. former champion because he existed at the time Demetrius Johnson existed. Kyoji Horaguchi, certainly was young, like not prime Kioji, but there. John Dotson, unbelievable pair of wins.

Henry Sohudo, I thought he won the second fight, though, you know, not a robbery. Like, these are great wins, and he never got the credit that he honestly deserved for it. And he's not going to now because maybe in this exact moment, more people will come out and celebrate him as happened with instances like this. But, I mean, DJ, obviously, undisputably deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I have no belief that he will get put in the Hall of Fame. He is not on good terms with the UFC. I'm not sure these on like out and out bad terms, but he's been really public about his pay

and kind of the how his career with the promotion ended. And they traded him for a dude who lost a bunch. And, like, he, I don't think he cares if he gets inducted into the Hall of Fame, but for better or worse, the UFC is MMA. Like, it just is, and that will rub a lot of people wrong. But it is. It controls the narrative to such a degree that if he doesn't get a 90-second promo during contender series extolling how great he is, then a vast majority of fans just won't understand or believe it. And so, like, we will fete him. We will do a damn they were good on him.

You know, we will celebrate his accomplishments. And whenever the goat debate comes up, I will always, as I always have done, bring him up as one of the dudes in the conversation. But broadly speaking, because of how his career ended, you know, in relative quiet terms in one. And with the UFC not, you know, really dig in what he's saying, I don't think he is ever going to kind of be hallowed in the way. broadly speaking that he should be. Yeah, he should be in the UFC Hall of Fame for sure. It would be a pretty cool thing to see them reach out and make this happen. And I, if this is like three years ago,

I would say there's zero chance he gets in. But I actually think because of this TKO merger and just kind of seeing how WWE has done business over the years, I mean, there are there are guys in the WWE Hall fame that you would think would never have gotten there. Brett Hart and Bruno San Martino and like guys like that who just had such even like Hogan to some degree contentious relationships with WWE and Vince at the time that maybe like they just say like look you got to put this dude in there like you just got to do it like just swallow your pride like you don't see Dane out there doing announcements anyways just get him in there

and like let him have a thing I think that's that would be a pretty cool thing to do on the UFC Spard and he absolutely should be in there he's one of the best fighters to ever step foot in their octagon no matter what the relationship is sometimes. times you just got to put the personal feelings aside and do the right thing. But I mean, I agree, but I just have no confidence that's happening. Yeah. What would you set the line at? Like minus 400 that he doesn't get in? I think he'll get in eventually, but like for better or worse, and I'm not, I want to be extremely clear. I'm not saying that this is a from the top dicta. I do not believe Dana White is saying don't induct that dude. But like, we saw it with the, the Francis

Zingano or ratio. Dana answered the question like, hey, about this and his answer, and I honestly believe his answer in this thing is, I didn't tell anybody not to put Francis in, in promo packages. Like, I'm not that petty where I was like, guys, cut him out. Somebody just thought that that's the answer I would want, because that is the culture that that pervades the UFC. That is the culture he has fostered and created. And so ultimately, there's just not enough impetus for someone to be like, hey, let's do this, unless Dana says, hey, let's do this. And I don't, I hope I'm wrong. Like, it would, it would be everything you said and very obviously.

But like, Frank Shamrock very clearly deserves to be in the UFC Hall of Fame and he isn't. So, like, I, I, I will believe that when I see it or I will believe it when, when leadership in the UFC organization changes and they become more kind of open to ideas like this. because I just, I don't think it will happen at this point in time. Hope I'm wrong. I would put it at minus 300 that in the next five years, DJ is inducted into the Hall of Fame.

Well, I mean, if we had a similar conversation in like July of 2018, we probably say, no chance Ben Askeran fights in the UFC. And then all of a sudden, a few months later, here we are, Ben Ascord is in the UFC. In order for that to happen, the UFC sends to me, I think Patriots Johnson over to one championship. It's I remember just being on, yeah, being on Twitter and like reading, M.A. fighting that day. And I wasn't, I was kind of like dabbling in the sport and doing

interviews and stuff. But I wasn't writing or doing anything like that. I just remember we're being like, holy crap. Like this is actually happening. What was going on with you? Because I think you were doing some stuff for the site at the time. Were you not? I was. Oh, yeah. I'd been working here for a couple years at that point. Um, when that happened, I remember as it, happened it was cool it was so weird immediately i pitched uh hey let's do it let's do a trade thing like let's do a what other mma trades should happen piece um that was fun and then we wrote and then i still have bookmarked in my portfolio um and like it was it was a genuinely wild cool thing in retrospect i can't express how much i hate it because it would have been something that i enjoyed if that

if that was the start of something. If suddenly there became sort of a, not free agency, really, but like, you know, if there were trades that happened more commonly in MMA organizations, that would just honestly be a really cool thing if this was the first one. But then every couple of years,

we'd get a package of one fighter swap in or KSW or however it works just in ways that were mutually beneficial. Because on paper and objectively speaking, this trade was totally good. But both parties were satisfied. This was a trade where neither person got substantially more than the other. Everybody leaves happy because the UFC got Ben Ascran. And they only got them for three fights, but those three fights were significant for them.

The Robbie Law, their fight was very big. Ascran kind of got away with one there. But then if for no other reason, they got to launch Jorge Mosvidal into stardom with the Ben Ascran acquisition. And then they finished it up with the Damien May, and that's okay. but there was a year-long period where Ben Ascran was dominating headlines, drawing interest, and frankly speaking,

doing better at the promoting of the UFC brand than DJ ever did. That's not a knock on DJ. It's a knock on how the UFC promotes fighters and their inability to promote him is really a condemnation of them as promoters. But Ben Ascring just fit more along the lines of how they do business. And so I think the UFC is very pleased of that. And then one, you know, one got to promote having the best fighter in the world.

But pound for a while, they got to have the Adjona-Marias trilogy and do other things. He got to be connected with Matt Hume. Like, both parties were very content with this outcome. That being, and at the time, we even said, like, this kind of makes sense. This is, this is okay. In retrospect, though, it sucks. Like, as I look back about it, my, I gave you my first reaction. after I sat and spent some time thinking about it,

my like second or third reaction to this was, man, I really wish DJ's career had ended better. Like the Adriana Marais's trilogy was meaningful and good to some extent. But like how many times in the past several years have we been like, it would be a lot cooler if DJ was back and we got to see DJ fight Brandon Moreno. If we got to see, you know,

the trilogy with Henry Suhudo, which should have happened. If we got to see DJ versus Pantosia or DJ versus Davidson Figurato, like there were so many of this generation of flywates that came through where we never actually got to see the test of DJ and where that went. And what maybe that could have meant for him long term as a champion,

let's say he, you know, if he wins a trilogy fight with Suhudo and then puts another four or five title defenses together, like suddenly it's really, not a debate that he is the top three all-time grade. So I, we missed a lot by him going to one. But that's just me being selfish because I don't think DJ has any, any sadness about this trade whatsoever. I think he's very happy with how his career ended. But in retrospect, I think we did miss out in a lot of really cool stuff. Completely agree. Like him and Moreno would have been

ridiculous. Him and pants would have been fun. Like him and Ziggy, after Figgy kills Benavides. and it's just like, all right, let's do it. Let's see what happens now. We've been awesome. Yeah. And just thinking of some of the up-and-comers now, like even like Brennan Royval and DJ would have been fun. Just like so the whole division.

It just wouldn't have been incredibly fun. But not to be, however. DJ versus Dillishaw. Yeah. That probably would have happened up at 135 instead of 125. Like there's a lot of a lot of cooler things than him fighting. Tatumitsu Wata, you know? Like, yeah.

Those are just, all right, sure. You would think, like, I think for you that you probably have more respect for DJ than, I mean, I think we all respect DJ a ton. Like, I think he's at the top of our list in terms of, like, fighters, we should respect. But as a guy who, for as long as I've worked with you and as long as I've known you at this point, Jed, for a guy who just loves when a fighter stays in their own division, and continuously defends their belt over and over again against the next guy. Forever. I mean forever. Everybody in this media space,

when they interviewed Demetrius Johnson, continue to ask this man, when you're going to 135 to fight T.J. Dillishaw or Cody Garbrand, whoever was the champion at the time, a rematch of Dominic Cruz. Every time it was the same, I have, I don't, I'm not going to call for it. I'm not going to say it.

I'm just going to do whatever I'm supposed to do. And if that means fight, the next guy up at 125, cool. But if the UFC pays me a whole bunch of money and they say, hey, we'll give you a huge raise, you go up to fight this guy, sure, I'll do it. But my job is to be the flyweight champion of the world and be the

best damn flyweight in the world. How much did you respect that, especially looking at where things are right now where it's always oh, I want to move up and move down. I want to be a two division champion. I want to be a three division champion. DJ was never like that. No, that's why he's dope. Like, I loved DJ.

and it was part of like particularly for me Mike as you've laid it out like I understood back then as I have tried to repeatedly tell people there are nine champ champs in UFC history like there are a lot of them there are two fighters who have double digit title defenses there are like it is people because it is not as flashy or whatever people don't seem to value it in the same, but it is legitimately substantially more impressive to string together 11 title defenses than it is to high roll on one fight up at 135, which is what it is. It's what every one of those is. There aren't no fighter who's been a champ champ is a multiple defending champ champ.

Because the history isn't, they go up and then they lord over the next weight class for five years. It's they go up, they win one, maybe they drop a belt, they lose a fight, you know, they Daniel Cormier. It's just not how it happens, whereas staying in one weight class for half a decade, which is what DJ did,

and completely obliterating it is so rare. And DJ got flak for it. At the end of his career, when like the Dillishaw fight is being dangled, and DJ's like, they're not going to pay me more. I don't care about it. Like, I want to,

I'm the best guy in my weight class. If they're not going to pay me for, why do I give a shit about it? And people are like, oh, he's ducking T.J. It's like, no, you absolute buffoons. He's just not an idiot. Like, what is the benefit to him? Because, ah, Demetius Johnson is the 10th champ champ in UFC history. Or, oh, Demetri's Johnson has the record for most title defenses in UFC history.

One of those things is just more special than the other, frankly. And so I always respected the show. shit out of it. It's one of those things that I always, and I do believe that if he is going to get more credit now that he is retired, it will be because people can just look at a raw number and be like, oh, 11 title defenses. How is he not the best fighter ever? Like, nobody else has 11 title defenses. That's, that's a lot of title defenses. And he kind of always had that focus, which obviously was hugely appealing to me. Agreed. Most impressive stat. fact moment that pops into your head when it comes to Demetri Shons.

Is it the title defense number at the top or is it something else? So the most impressive is the title offenses because I can't stress this enough to people. And I'm sorry if you've heard me harp on this a million times, but the people who haven't, it is impossible to defend a belt four times. It is so hard to defend a belt five times. Be like you, Islamyakov is the current best pound for pound fighter in the world for everyone not named Dana White. And his last title defense against Dustin Porre, he afterwards comes out and is like, that was really hard. It was really hard because it's just hard to be champion.

I'd like to test myself at Welterweight because that is hunting as opposed to playing King of the Mountain for as long as I can. Every long-reaning champion in the history of this sport has said something similar. Kamar Usman was like, it's pretty tough to be the dude at the top. It is so hard to wake up every day with the target on your back. And if you have one bad day at the office, if you get sick but can't pull out because the whole card is built around you, if you stub your toe or roll your ankle walking into the cage, If you just have a momentary lapse and get a shin upside your head, it's over. Everything you built crumbles down.

The pressure and the difficulty of fighting the best fighters in the world, because that's who you're fighting. At other points in time, you might not be fighting the best dude in the world. You might be fighting an unproven prospect or somebody who is past their prime. If you are defending a belt, it is the best dude in the world. and for almost, I mean, not even almost, for every single one of them, this is the moment that their career has been leading up to. They have spent their entire adult life to get to this spot to defeat you. They are giving you everything they possibly can. You have to deflect best shot after best shot after best shot.

It's why people can't defend a belt for three times or four or five. Alexander Volcanovsky, who in my opinion is one of the 15 to 20 best fighters ever, has what, like five title defenses? It's an insane number. DG has twice as many. It is so incomprehensible to have this level of success with this stakes and this pressure in opposite to you that I cannot overstate how impressive it is to have this record that he does. So it's clearly the most impressive. If you're just going for the what's the doper shit is very clearly the Mighty Whizbar. That's the best submission in mixed martial arts history.

And it was cool as hell in real time. Like watching it, I was like, I can't believe that just happened. So, yeah. And my last thing on this, I will never forgive. I want to say it's Casey. Pretty sure is Casey actually. I will never forgive Casey because the year the Mighty Whizbar happens. What year was the Mighty Whiz Bar?

That was 2017. DJ should have been fighter of the year that year. And Casey did not vote for him. and I lost my mind at him. So Max Hollow is your fight of the year, which is very silly. Obviously, DJ deserved it that year. I'll never forgive you, Casey.

Yes, he was, obviously that was the submission of the year for M.A. fighting in 2017, because what else could have been? It had to be done. Thinking back on that submission, looking at it all these years later, my first thought right now is like,

man, I wish we were doing the watch party back then. because like the react the live reaction to the mighty whiz bar would have been absolutely ridiculous but i'm completely with you when it comes to the 11 title defenses in a row to me especially in 24 and looking at the future of this company and the sport that is the joe damaggio 56 game hitting streak no one's i don't think it's going to happen again i don't think no i don't think that record's ever going to be broken at least as long as i am alive and on this planet i don't think anyone's getting 11 straight title defenses. I just don't see it happen to him. It, it is super never going to happen now in a day and age where everyone prior, like every fighter now is so focused on champ champ

hood. No chance. There's just no chance. Like that was why I was like, Volk shouldn't try and go lightweight. Like he should just, he is legitimately in spitting distance of catching Josealdo, but then he spent a year fighting for the lightweight belt got knocked out and then got knocked out by a Tupuria. Maybe that doesn't happen. Maybe he has more title defenses and he's in this conversation and said Aldo. But, you know, people have their eye on the shiny price. Yep. All right.

I mean, that's, again, the Cliff's note's version of all of this. But I owe, I owe Casey an apology. Casey voted DJ number one. That is correct. So I am proud of Casey. Casey, I disparaged your name and very, very upset that I did that.

I forgot how many absolute morons we had on staff at this point. I'm not even like, I know these people. I'm on good terms with them, but like, one, two,

three people did not have DJ ranked in their fighter of the year. DJ lost by three points to Max. What? DJ lost by, three points in the voting to Max Holloway

and three different absolute jackasses didn't have him ranked. And I love you to death, Pizzi Carroll. It is fucking insane that you had Vulcan Ozedemir over Demetrius Johnson. Oh my God. You had Vulcan Ozedimir over Demetrius Johnson ranked.

That is lunacy. Dave Doyle, you're a good man and at least you like didn't have Vulcan O's Demer, but RDA, come on, man. Rose, come on. This was also like no absolute nonsense. And Chuck Mendenhall, who I have so much respect for, also had Vulcan Ozedemir.

You pathological psychos, what in the name of God were you thinking that DJ didn't deserve it in 2017? Lunatics. With that. I've never been more upset. I can't believe I just had to go see Vulcan Ousdemeer got multiple votes. over Demetrius Johnson. Oh my God.

Like I get it. He had a fun. That was the fun no time 2017. But like, come on. Because he knocked out Misha Sarkhanov and Jimmy Manuel. We're like, that guy did it.

One of the five best fighters of the year, folks. Pizzi, it's on site if I see you. And I love you to death. But God, that's insane to me. Oh.

So glad I was a word. working at MMA fighting back then? I was so livid at the time. Now, granted, I also actually did have Vulcan ranked that year, but I didn't have him ranked over DJ because I'm not a psycho. Like, I remember being, oh, no, I didn't. I didn't have him ranked. Okay, I was about to say, that seems weird that I would have him ranked.

I didn't have him ranked. Meltzer did, which again is just absolute lunacy that Volcan Oster Dere was almost in this list. But like, I remember at the time being. furious at people being like, look, I love Max Holloway. Max Holloway's fun as hell. Max Holloway had the same win. He beat Jose Aldo twice.

That's just, this is the year DJ gets it. Come on, guys. We should all be on board here. That's wild, man. If any of them just ranked DJ, he's the fighter of the year. He's ranked him anywhere. So silly.

See, underappreciated, undervalued all the unders for. Demetri and Shanson. All right. We'll take a few minutes. If you guys have questions, you guys get DJ thoughts. I bet if you ask Ketze, he'd be like, I have some regrets about that. Oh, I maybe wasn't my best moment.

I would say so. That's annoying. What? You're a muffler. You don't hear it. Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this?

Oh, yeah. Way better. Save on insurance by switching to Bell Air Direct and use the money to fix your car. Bel Air Direct. Insurance simplified. Conditions apply. Someone asked, are we previewing the event tonight? Yes, we are.

Don't you worry. People's free fight show both three hours from right now. 3.30 Eastern. We'll talk to UFC. We'll talk to Belator. And that same thing. The question was how many title defenses does he have five? He had five.

He had five. He had a half. Yep. It seemed like his run was way longer, right? Bolkanowski had five. He had five. Yeah. Half.

Exactly. Crazy. It's like three or four years, but then also like the, you know, the Izzy run would have, you know, it had the Lojvich fight in there. It's just,

five is a lot. Five's unbelievably impressive. They are, they're like, I'm trying to off the top of my head. I would say they're probably like 20 fighters in UFC history with five plus title defenses.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12, 13, 14, 14 with 5 or 14. 14, that's- Executive title defenses. Wow, really? Yep.

I really thought. Silva, GSP, John Jones, Jose Aldo, Valentina Shepchenko, Ronda Rousey, Yuanianne, and Jacek. Amanda doesn't count. Amanda, that's right. Oh, do Amanda does count? She has five? Yep. And Matt Hughes had five.

Usman, Adesonio, Volcanowski, all had five. I didn't think Amanda had five. Because I, because she was bouncing around. between the weight classes. Also, didn't Tito get five? Tito got five, yep. Tito to get five, okay, yeah. But I mean, yeah, it's a very short list,

14 of them. Like Joseo Aldo had seven, Valentina Chivchenko. Joseo Zedado is nine. It's a lie, but yes. Yeah, I know. But Valentina Shepchenko only had seven. And it says, like,

I don't mean only as a disrespectful thing, but compared to Demetri's Johnson, how far ahead of her peers, Valentino was, maybe even further ahead than Demetri's Johnson in a lot of. respects had seven and then lost it just goes to show you how hard this is it's insane it's just impossibly difficult man it's so hard is that a bear's hat hell no it's definitely not a bear's

set hell no come on i saw some people saying it looked like i had a do rag on but i didn't even realize that i had on until the start and i'm like well i'm not going to take it off now there we are yes Casey vindication Sanchez. Casey was on my team, not opposed to me. I knew that I had a, he's in my mind about this incident, but I think it was he and I were screaming

at people about what the hell had unfolded. Retiring without fighting is meh? I don't know what that means. He fought a lot. I don't know if you know this, Demetius Johnson fought 50 times or something, 30, sorry? 30 pro fights.

Fought a lot. he fought a bunch of times Hughes had two rains also yeah but the question was five or more I was a huge second rain was short it was two he had two yeah

yeah consecutive I mean yeah if you're not doing consecutive I guess you'll add you'd add Hughes and that's it anybody else have a reclaim the belt and have an additional title defense

that would have kicked him over a number I don't think so I guess Randy with his multiple title defenses maybe gets to five if you're counting multiple weight classes and titles runs. I'm actually not sure. Let me count Randy up here. So he never defended a belt a lot, which is one of the things about him.

That's, yeah, that's a thing. Because Randy would win and then he'd lose the next fight. That happened a whole bunch. No, Randy has three title defenses to his name combined across multiple weight classes. Yep. Tired will he had four, Henan Brow at four, O'Dell had four. Did Hindenbrow have a real or fake four?

Did one of his count as an interim defense? I think he had a couple interim defenses, right? I just want to see, like, but are they counting that as his? Yeah, no, Hennon's not it. Hennon only had three. He had four title fight wins, but he only had three defenses. Oh, interesting. Okay.

because he lost a delishal in his fourth only had three Wyden had three, Benson Henderson had three, Frankie Edgar at three every lightweight had three Cormier three, Machachev's got three Cormier gets up to four

if you had his heavy weight title defense but like it's just yeah man one weight class defending multiple times it's super hard guys I can't stress it enough uh Chase bought me half an ice coffee to tell you that you're wrong.

The greatest submission is John killing Leoto. That's a cool submission. That's obviously not. That's obviously ridiculous. Yeah, that's a good submission. Probably wasn't submission of the year that year. Maybe it was, but he threw a grown man,

a professional cage fighter in the air, and then armbard him in the literal last second of the fight as a stamp of victory. like there are very few things that have ever been so just like disrespectfully cold blooded is that the literal only thing that you can say negative about it is that for whatever reason he refused to call it the mouse trap like the mouse trap is something else that's the whiz bar

that's a very stupid thing that's just the might it's the mouse trap and is the coolest thing that's ever happened other than the showtime kick which is the coolest thing that's ever happened John, are you going to start ranking one fighters normal now? Well, they don't do an MMA event anymore. Yeah. Other than Anatoly Malikin, who is weird. RDR.

Why can't wait, I don't think? I don't know. One's going to solve this problem for us in the near future, so it's fine. Yeah, it seems that way, right? One, one's not going to be a going concern for us, which means we're going to have to find a new promotion for the organizational draft, but we also need to find two new ones, frankly, with the BFL tour being whatever it's doing. Yeah, seems like one is slowly.

One making, one making Mikey Musumichi cut 30 pounds in like two days or whatever, and then causing a literal tear in his lung and then stripping him. It's just like, what are we even doing? Give it up, guys. They're so bad at this. Shout out, Chaucer got a black belt yesterday. Oh, my God. Yeah, that was, I just, I mean, watch the whole clip. Oh, unreal.

Unbelievable. All right. Look, there's going to be, there's going to be more programming talking about this. I'm sure when the people's pre-fight show comes around in a couple hours from right now, we'll talk more about this. But, yeah, if you're just joining us, wondering what we're doing here, here. I mean, the headline should tell you everything, but Demetrius Johnson calls it a career 38 years of age after 30 professional fights, one of the all-time greats. What else can you say

about the man? And looking forward to seeing what's next for him. Seems like he's starting a little media enterprise of his own. And, you know, apparently he doesn't predict Bilal Mohammed fights correctly or break them down. And I'm sure there's going to be many more fighters calling out to be shoes Johnson for his takes and that's mighty is that he's great at that to vox media oh that's not a bad idea maybe we'll bring maybe we'll bring dj over and we'll have some fun there but we appreciate all of you you guys are incredible we get a little new outro where is it there it is a little breaking news outro but we're going to keep trying to do more and more of these here on the on the channel as big things happen we jump on here like i said people's pre-fight show 3 30 p.m. eastern

post-fight show after the Bellator event. We'll talk to UFC. We'll talk to Belator. We'll have on to the next one tomorrow. Doing some matchmaking. Following UFC Vegas 97. Then, guys, Spearcard, Noche UFC, Read season, UFC 306,

Sean O'Malley Marab de Wallis-Willi, Lexa Grosso Valentina Shepchenko 3. It's going to be a massive week. It's going to be a gigantic week. And we will have you covered at MMAfighting.com. Watch party next week, Jed. at this time next week I'll be in Atlanta getting ready for the watch party

which you'll be joining me for which I'm very excited about maybe we'll be just finishing up on the golf course perhaps or maybe we'll both be finishing up recapping Bellator and Miss Miss Spockx

and Bellator guys I need you to cancel an event I'd rather go play golf we got on to leave let me go play golf I don't want to do that shit oh my gosh crazy Well, thank you all for joining us.

Shout out to you, Demetius Johnson. You are the man, and hopefully you get the accolades of the respect you deserve. But hopefully the UFC does the right thing. And we immortalize you as a UFC Hall of Famer. For Jedmishu, I am Mike Eck. Thank you for watching. We're out of here. Love y'all.

To the Vox Media Podcast Network. Towards the night before the gathering and all through the house, the host rapid cozy cashmere throw from Homense for their spouse. Kids toys for $6.99 under the tree. And crystal glasses for just $14.99 for their brother Lee. A baking dish made in Portugal for Tom and Sue. And a nice $5.99 candle. Perfectly priced just for you.

Happy holidays to all. And to all a good price. Home sense. Endless presents perfectly priced.