MMA Fighting - Reaction | Grading Francis Ngannou and PFL's Blockbuster Partnership Announcement

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

The long wait for Francis Ngannou’s free agent decision is over as the former UFC heavyweight champion announced Tuesday that he is the newest member of the PFL roster and the chairman of the league’s PFL Africa expansion. Ngannou’s signing ends a 16-month wait to see where the Cameroonian-French star would take his talents. He fought his last fight at UFC 270 and then officially parted ways with the UFC this past January amid plenty of speculation as to what lay ahead for him: A mega boxing match with Tyson Fury? Would he simply head over to another top MMA promotion? Will he ever fight Jon Jones? Add in that Ngannou’s rift with the UFC was due to wanting several unprecedented contract stipulations and it’s fair to say that he was the most intriguing free agent in MMA history. MMA Fighting’s Alexander K. Lee and Jed Meshew react to the breaking news, grade the deal for Ngannou and the PFL, discuss whether criticism of Ngannou’s decisions were justified, and what this means for other UFC stars who may want to explore life outside of the octagon. Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Alexander K. Lee: @alexanderklee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded to Ghosts in the Machine

available now, only from Audible. Hello, happy Tuesday, everyone. If you're listening to this, then you know the big news of the day, the big news of the week. One of the biggest sports stories of the year, Francis Nguyenu has found a home. He has officially

signed with the professional fighters league, the PFL, the former UFC heavyweight champion and the number one heavyweight in the MMA fighting global rankings made his announcement via the New York Times ending four months. Some might say, I would say 16 months from his last fight at UFC 270, months of speculation as to where he would go. We knew that Franzigano had fought out his contract 16 months ago and it was only earlier this year that he officially got his release. massive news. This is not just a deal. It is being announced as a strategic partnership. He will be heading PFL's Africa. He's the chairman, excuse me, of PFL Africa. He'll be part of the promotion's Superfight Division. They're still talking of him boxing in 2023. And as is

described in the release, this is supposed to be the most lucrative deal in MMA history. So we'll kind of dive into that today. We be. being myself, this is a voice of Alexander K. Lee, and of course, my good friend and associate, the Jed Michoud. Jed, how are you doing today? Let's just get your initial thoughts on this deal as we are literally a couple of hours away from this getting put out into the, into the NBA world. So how are you feeling about it? What's, what was the first thing that crossed your mind when you saw that? Francis Ghanu, now part of the PFL. I think my first thought was just finally, this has been the worst kept secret, maybe an MMA history for the last, like, month or so.

Like, everyone knew by process of elimination, if nothing else, like, where this was going. And, you know, negotiations obviously take some time and we eventually got here. It was the PFL or fight circus. We were like, oh, boy, it's like 50, 50, 50. One or the other. John Nutt was not returning our. DMs about it. We're like, that's suspicious. I know. I kept hounding and it was like, hey, John, it's going on, man. But yeah, I mean, we all knew this was coming. But I don't think we,

I don't know how to say think. None of us really knew exactly what was coming, though. And so that's my first actual reaction, right? Obviously, you know, peek behind the curtain. and everyone knew that an announcement was coming this week. We had talked about it sort of offline, that the announcement is supposed to be imminent, right? It's going to happen this week, and so we make our preparations, our plans on how we're going to react to it.

But then once I, you know, read the announcement this morning, I was like, that is more than I thought. Because I, everything you said, right, I expected him to have an equity partnership, similar to what they did with Jake Paul, because that kind of makes sense for the business dev plan that PFL seems to be pursuing. We can get into that.

I think that's actually a really good idea broadly. So I expected that part of it, but all of the rest of this, and look, take some of it with a grain of salt, certainly, right? Most of the info coming out of this is from press release. So I would say if you've read the press release, not everything in there is 100% accurate. So maybe some of this is rose-colored glasses,

but the idea of him being the chairman of PFL Africa, the idea of a PFL Africa being a thing in general is a huge step forward, not just for the PFL, but for the sport. There's not a UFC Africa that's rocking right now, you know. There's, you know, they're European divisions in Bellator and stuff, but that's a major move. And so for him to be the chairman of that, for some of the other stuff that's coming around in here

as a member of the Global Advisory Board to functionally, at least as it is being told, be a representative for the athletes, that's pretty groundbreaking stuff going on here. And so I'll wrap my little section right here on it by just saying, suck it people who are being like tools about this because for the last like few weeks one not to throw names out a couple of promotions were um aggressively not in francis's corner on this one

and you know i understand you're a promoter you got to try and defend your own brand but it it felt a touch personal it felt a touch like hey here's what we offered on substantiated and he'd so just too rich for art but can't do it blah blah blah and from those little tidbits of information we we talked about it on this pod network a lot of people extrapolated that francis and gano quote unquote fumbled the bag like oh what a what a idiot like you should just take an eight million dollars from the ufc all of you probably need to shut the hell up right about now because we don't know the financials on it. I'm sure the financials are also pretty solid here for him.

They certainly suggest that this is the most lucrative deal ever. I can't verify that. But I'm sure he's doing okay on the money. More important to Francis, based on everything he's told us before, he's getting the other things that really mattered to him. He's getting a stake in the company. He's getting the advisory roll board an opportunity to improve this sport, not just for himself, but for everybody around him.

And so this is unequivocally a win for Francis Ngano. And frankly, I think a win for the sport as a whole. I think that this is, maybe this ultimately turns into nothing, but I think this is a big day and could be a kind of a day we look back on and say something fundamentally changed in MMA today. I love the optimism. Yeah, I want to believe that as well. It does feel like a big deal in this moment.

You're right, there's really no way for us to say until six months a year from now, two years from now, maybe even, and I would say even further down the road, how much this whole free agency drama meant, how much this his final decision meant. I'm glad you brought up some of the other promoters. I will speak somewhat, excuse me, guys. I will speak somewhat in their defense or at least to explain some of their comments because I'm sure the one that popped out the most, you know, chat. Chichajajong from one championship was one of the most vocal saying that they and Francis just did not align on certain things. Those being, and he had thrown this out there. He said that Francis wanted to be like a member of the board or something and to dictate what his opponents got paid, which I think the phrasing is somewhat justified by the news we found out today. But also I think we can also say that Chachry maybe made it sound a little bit more megalomaniacal than it is.

For sure. Yeah, because as we see, he is part of a board. He's not part of the main PFL board, as we learned from this release. It is the PFL Global Advisory Board. I'll quickly read some PR copy here. The PFL Global Advisory Board has been established for the league to closely collaborate with the greatest athletes in minds in the sport of MMA to ensure the PFL stays focused on his fighter's first mission combined for recruiting and developing future global champions

as part of the strategic partnership with the PFL. and Gano will serve in a leadership role on the PFL Global Advisory Board, making him the first active fighter to serve in the board and represent fighters' interests. So he's on a board. He got that part of it. The other part was wanting to dictate his opponent's pay. Now, I don't know if that's part of this, but we do know he is part of the Superfight Division, which is meant to provide a huge boost to the fighters participating in that division,

as opposed to getting 50%. I'm not wrong. I was to say, I'm not wrong in that theoretically they're getting 50% of revenue. share for that is the claim of the again the division has not started yet yeah we don't know but that is what they have said hyped up when they signed jake paul that's what they said was the next phase for kail harrison and the revenue uh pivory revenue uh part of it was a huge uh obviously huge draw for it and then the last bit about a boxing you know we said uh he also wants to be able to box and i imagine that's something that some of these other promotions uh bristles that as well

and according to this release according to the news he they say in 2020 it sounds like he has that boxing option available. Again, we have no idea who the opponent might be. Again, is this being targeted? Is it in the works? Has he, does he have, is he in talks with some promoter to actually make this happen before the end of the year? We don't know.

We do know he has the option. So that is a fact. And he might looks like they're targeting a PFL debut in 2024. So, Jed, with a few more of the facts laid out, I'll ask straight up, let's grade the deal. Let's treat this like a major sports trade, sports like, you know, team sports trade, team sports transaction. Let's grade the deal first for Francis and Ghanu. A plus.

This is he got, I can't say he got everything he wanted, but he got most of what he wanted as far as I'm not in his mind or his brain. I can't see any way you can look at this and not call it a home run for him, right? Like the only people who are going to come here and be like, this doesn't matter. This is stupid. Are just the lowliest of haters at this point, right? Because of the stuff we've already talked about. He is already probably financially like set in the general terms of what that means, right? To the globe at large.

But this deal, I am certain from a monetary standpoint, again, we don't actually have the figures, but I'm dead certain that he is doing. okay money-wise maybe not as much money as he could have made in the UFC or in one or belt like maybe i'm willing to say that maybe this isn't the biggest price tag but he got all the other things that he wanted or at least most of the other things that he wanted and most importantly he got a substantive job moving forward right like if francis and ghanu it will never happen but let's say Francis Zengano comes out here later this year he does get to fight somebody Joshua Taylor or whoever it ends up being Tyson Fury whatever he gets his boxing match he's even financially set for

life cool great for him that's a huge win gets knocked out and suddenly his chin is gone because he's a little bit older and he just got knocked out in boxing and ante Delajja just puts him into the shadow realm in his first pfl fight that will be a level of hilarious I I'll admit that. Relatively catastrophic for the PFL in some regards. But ultimately it won't matter because all of the other stuff is still here. Him getting knocked out won't mean he's not the CEO or chairman of BFL Africa. They won't be like, we're going to take away your role in developing our promotion globally.

He has won. This is an A plus for him. more than I would have even anticipated as I said that he would get. And I think that it's just as good as could be expected. I'm going to settle in at an A, Jed, only because I think A plus for me would have been knowing right away, like today, if they'd announced, oh, and he's fighting Tys and Fury. Or he's fighting, like I said, Anthony Oswaldor, or Deonti Wilder. Then I'd go A plus. So I'll reserve as an A.

like you said, it's not really fair to kind of, I mean, we can go back and grade the deal. It's not really fair to say now, like, well, it's only a B plus because if this bad thing happens, if this bad thing happens, on paper, from what we know, it's at least an A. I agree A plus is totally a possibility. The money thing is funny because what we do seem to know is that the UFC was offering something around the range of $8 million for one fight. I think some people misconstrued that as, I know for a fact, I would say. Some people misconstrued that as, oh, I can't believe Francis isn't coming back to the UFC.

They were offering him $8 million a fight. That was, I believe, was only going to be for a John Jones fight or some sort of title fight. If it wasn't John Jones. My understanding was that it was $8 million per fight, but that that number existed as long as he was champion. I was going to say, that's the, that's, was. And so he gets his $8 million and his pay-per-view bonuses. But if he loses, then he reverts to something substantially small. That's my understanding. Could be wrong. It could have just been a single fight, but I like you, I am fairly certain that it wasn't, regardless of whatever happens, it's $8 million a fight. At best, at best, he had to, I believe he had to be champion. I'd be very, I would be shocked again. We don't know for sure. Based on everything we know about the UFC. Based on reality, I'd be very shocked if they were saying, here's a four-fight deal, $8 million guarantee champ or no champ seems highly high. highly, highly unlikely. It would be unprecedented. And if that's what the UFC offered, then good on them.

And Francis walked away from that. Then you know what? I'll say UFC did their best. But from what we know, it's definitely $8 million for that one fight, possibly if he was still champion after. So yes, he's probably making more now over the long run. Definitely, I would say more than for that, you know, if it was just one fight at $8 million, given the, like you said, equity, his other roles, that he gets to box. That's the big X factor. How much can he get from a boxing match? It's really hard to say he didn't get everything he wanted and all these things that people said he couldn't get because he never said it was never for him saying well I definitely need to make more than eight nine 10 million for my next MA fight he's it was never about that he's made a good amount of money he knew

whoever he signed was going to be able to pay him well again even if not the single fight offer that UFC could make but he said I want some you know he wants some sort of you know chairman like role he wants to be able to box and and he wants to you know have some some say over, you know, making fighter pay better. And it sounds like he landed all these things. So let's grade it now, Jed, for the PFL. How did, how did the league do? I'm going with an A plus again.

This one I can recognize people having a slightly different perspective because there is the fear. This deal looks a lot worse if, for instance, and Ghana loses in the next, you know, 18 months, right? Like that, undeniably, this deal is a hard. one for them to, you know, put on the wall as, as a great thing if that happens. But I don't think that that's necessarily true, right? Like, I think that that probably is true, but I don't think that that if Francis Ngano loses that this kills the deal because of everything else that's

going on with this, right? One, at the bare minimum, the PFL just got the best heavyweight in the world. Maybe he's not. Maybe John Jones is technically the best heavyweight in the world. If they fought. I can't say who would win. We'll never know at this point in time, but they got the lineal heavyweight champion of this sport. And so at the bare minimum, that's an A. Like, you can't, there's no way to look at a promotion and say, you have the lineal heavyweight champion and be like, C, this is the biggest free agent signing in mixed martial arts history has happened. And so that we're starting with an A. And the rest of it is, is why I think this is an A plus.

One, you know, we're in the media. We harp on this stuff all the time. It's really pleasantly surprising to see the, quote, unquote, concessions that the PFL made to to Francis, allowing him these things that he was pursuing, because I think, I don't want to speak for you, but I will speak for a lot of other people in the space. These are things that we broadly would like fighters to have, to have more of a stake in companies, more of an investment in the future and growth of the sport. more opportunities to succeed and, you know, develop monetarily as well. So the fact that they did that,

I like, I got to give them props for that. And two other things that really stuck out. The first is that they didn't have to do that. They were, functionally, they were negotiating against no one at the end of this point in time, which was part of it that had a lot of people come. That was why a lot of people came out and were like fumbled the bag you look at him he's he is miscalculated he screwed up because all of the other major promoters in the world had largely and publicly withdrawn themselves from this negotiation you know one had done it bkFC said we can't afford him the ufc we all know how that went belator surprisingly not involved in this maybe not surprisingly if you um you know are reading the news about what may or may not be transparent

firing with them, largely speaking. So they were negotiating against nobody, which means they probably didn't have to agree to all of this. They probably could have said, hey, well, Superfight Division will give you this, you know, and we're going to do some other stuff that you can be involved. It will let you box. And he probably would have functionally had to take it because there just weren't other options out there for them.

But they are coming to this based on everything I can view from this as a genuine open partnership that this is not something they are being forced to by the constraints of capitalism, but this is something they want to actively pursue. So I think that that's great. And the last thing I'll say on this, the thing that really pushes it into, no doubt about it A plus for me, this thing that maybe a lot of people aren't going to recognize from the press release, from this news dump, but I think it's actually critically important for this whole thing. And it's less about this specific deal and more about the future of the PFL. And it's, let me find the thing.

So here's from the press release, PFL is an expansive plan to become the first true global league in sports with international regional league spanning all continents. PFL found on chairman Don Davis. PFL Europe's launch in 2023 has been a huge success. We will have six more PFL international leagues operating by 2026 and some other stuff that's nonsense after that. but the PFL, you know, they invested in PFL Europe, which maybe it's too early to call it a success, but I like the direction. I think that that's a smart way to grow the brand and start to invest in other talent. This PFL Africa portion is, I think, going to be very great. They are staking a claim to a continent of human beings who can fist fight that no other promoter is really,

like leveraging in any way and they're doing it with the biggest name in the sport on that continent heading it up so like i said if francis gets knocked out tomorrow still in his job as functionally talent acquisition for africa he's going to be doing good things for the pfl and the rest of that the six more international leagues has really nothing to do with this deal in general but that is an ambitious and I think a really good dev strategy for them right like they are going to be out there accruing services and when you have this francis and ghanu deal to to show fighters right hey we you know other people say that they're for the fighters that they're we're doing it look at francis and ghanu maybe they're not going to give the same deal to everybody or whatever you know

Cedric Dumbay does not have the same Francis deal, obviously, but other free agents that come along, other people that they decide would be a good business partner in these ways. I think this is just a, this is a flag to plant in the ground saying, here's how we do business, and that's only going to continue to attract more talent to them because of the way they do business. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo.

Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won! Feel the fun! The thing will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly concerned by your gambling or that if someone close to you, call 186653300 or visit Comexontera.com.

With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Yeah, I'm leaning towards A-plus as well, Jed, for the PFL, because, again, this is just a home-run move. And even if it, again, worst-case scenario, this is still establishing, I would say, further establishing themselves as this legitimate alternative to the UFC. And when I say alternative, I mean that in the truest sense of the word, because from the moment they re-brisely, branded or re-stratage, whatever you want to call it, from World Series of Fighting to the

PFL professional fighters league, they did so with this intent, like, to try to say, even the way which people should know, like we were told, I don't know to say told, but, you know, they've requested the media many times, like refer to them as a league. Yes, they're an organization, excuse me, promotion, but they like to be called a league. You know, there's a big effort to control the optics of the PFL. And so much of it is about, again, oh, we do, we do tournaments, million dollar tournaments. No other promotion does that, you know. We are now doing this sort of hardcore global expansion, you know, and the way we're doing it, no one has done it before.

And then we have a smart cage. We have the smartest cage in the business. So we should have known that Francis and Ghanu, you know, that this was going to go his way because, or sorry, he was going to go the PFL's way, Because once we heard about all the demands that he was making with the UFC and why he didn't resign with them, we're like, well, he needs to go somewhere that's, he needs to go to an organization that's a little more open-minded about, you know, doing different things and, you know, pursuing different avenues in MMA. And it's a great fit. It's a great fit. I don't know how it is on like a buzz level with the fans. Like you said, there's going to be hated out there who are just like, oh, what happened to the Tyson Fury?

Where's the Tyson Fury fight? Where's the big, where's the big, you know, $50 million boxing belt? He just went to another, you know, the number two. He went from number one. You, the number two of a promotion. You know how it's going to be with fans. I know, because this isn't even the number two MMA promotion. I love the PFL and they stated, in this press release, they say something very dumb.

Like, it's the number two MMA promotion according to all metrics. Sure. Which is just an outright lie. Like, all metrics? You can't say all metrics. That's nonsense. Let me read a little bit. more. This is from the New York Times. Let's just say all in my deal with PFL is more than anyone else

has offered. Nunganu said the past few months have been a very interesting time to understand and see the landscape. But I'm very excited about this deal with the PFL because they basically showed what I was expecting. They didn't just show up as a promotion that was looking for a fighter, but really came as a partner that sees more value in you as a person. PFL CEO Peter Murray told the New York Times, this is not an athlete deal. Francis is an icon today in the sport. He's the best in the world at what he does. But he's in business with the PFL. We're in business together.

Jed, my next question for you, I need you to do a look, get into character. Okay. Your UFC president, Dana White. Let's see. It would be about 4.30 a.m. in Vegas time, assuming that's where Dana is right now. Let's say, let's jump ahead, an hour or two. You wake up, you see this news. What is Dana White and the UFC's reaction?

I assume that they're, it's pretty mid from them, right? They're not thrilled because once he does sign, that officially takes any opportunity for them to work together off the table. But you knew this was coming, like we talked about, you knew this was coming with the PFL. Maybe, I don't know. I'm unclear how he views the PFL as an organization, because in some ways,

if I am the UFC the PFL is the promotion I am the least bothered by Bellator I'm not really bothered by anybody I'm the UFC but Bellator

does have a claim to having the best fighters in the world in like five weight classes at this point in time they may or may not be but they have the most MMA talent on roster that's not in the UFC

in the world one has functionally a completely different product to offer the UFC and also has a deal with Amazon, which is enormous and is a good, you know, combat sports promotion, but isn't running the exact same race as the UFC in general and also is focused a little bit more. I mean, they've obviously expanded into the U.S. this year, but they are focused a little bit more on the other side of the globe than the UBC's interest generally aligned with. PFL is the one where

they are doing something different in the league-based MMA, but they're like the little cousin. because they're also on ESPN. Most of their fighters aren't as good. Some fighters have been going to the PFL because of the million dollar draw, but in a lot of respects, if on the UFC, the PFL would be the promotion I'm the least, quote unquote, concerned about. This would maybe up that a little bit, be like, okay, well, for the reasons we've just talked about, right?

Okay. What you're doing with this fighter, with Francis, a guy who has publicly spoken out against stuff. I'm not sure. I don't know if that's going to have ripple effects for us. Probably not because we have such a firm grip on the industry. But like I said, this could be a momentum, a moment worse thing shift, and not majorly, and it certainly won't be an avalanche of suddenly fighters get to be involved in the process of organizations immediately. But do think we're talking about something that in 20 years you could look back as that was kind of the first big piece, right? That was the first stone to start rolling down the hill here.

And so I would say that they're mundane away. And I'm probably slightly concerned, not overall concerned. You know, I'm not going to not eat breakfast this morning, but I may take a moment to pause and reflect on like, okay, do I need to call up my friends at ESPN and kill PFL's TV deal with them? Because this is a shot across the bow. I don't think he'll make that decision, but I think he may at least reflect on that as something here. Yeah, it is funny to imagine that during an ESPN broadcast, maybe not in the same, you know, a game or whatever, a news story or news hit, but probably in the same day, you could see an ad for the upcoming UFC on ESPN Plus, USC Vegas 7500. And then also, oh, and Francis Nganu, you know, is going to appear at PFL 7,

Special Appearance by Francis and Gano. You could see that on the same network now. And you're right. If you're Dana White, it's definitely a bit of a chin scratcher, right? You're like, that looks funny. I don't know how I feel about this. Yeah. And it's, I will say, honestly, I think the thing that is going to have the most tangible effect on the UFC from this is the dance of your stuff.

the the pfl africa i think that my i suspect that if there's anything that really happens from the ufc outside of i mean dana will make the comment when someone asks them the next time he talks in front of a microphone oh you see frances sign yeah good you know good for him got got the deal uh you know that might be a little angry might be like like they gave up the whole cow when they just needed the milk like blah blah blah but i think the only thing that will happen is UFC Africa is probably getting a bigger push to to happen sooner because of this. But other than that, my guess is that this won't be a huge, a huge thought on their mind.

One more thing about Dana. He said in classic Dana speak after letting Francis go, he'll never fight for the UFC again. Does anything about this do you think preclude him, Francis Gingano, from returning whenever this this run with the pfl is over and assuming it unless it is this long-term sort of lifelong partnership i never thought he was fighting the uc again i don't think that was a dana white decision i think that was a francis and got into decision um thought that's one of the few statements that dana's ever said that i like wholeheartedly agreed with even if i agreed with it for entirely different reasons i don't think like dana will do business with anyone who's going to do

business uh in the way that he wants to do business he and tito actively he hated each other for years and still found a way to do business together because for whatever his faults he is good at business in the way he wants to be good at business and if you're willing to come to meet him in the table in the same way he'll do it doesn't matter if he hate you or not uh francis ingano is not cut from that cloth this was entirely a francis and ganu choice of i mean we heard it from for two years almost of like yeah these people are not good humans like they they don't respect me they actively tried to undermine my career they you know think that a dollar sign is all that i am as opposed to a person and he was never coming back i think this i wouldn't say that this is the

reason but i would say that if anyone was holding out some kind of hope which i was not uh you you should let that go. I was optimistic he would fight again. I still think this chance somewhere down the road happens, but way down the road, obviously, given today's news. And also given the proposed timeline, this means there's 0.00, whatever, how many zeros you want to go, 1% chance we ever see him fight John Jones, which is super sad.

So I do want to ask you quick, Jed, where does this, you know, quick estimate, where does this rank on your loss fights, fights that we thought, seemed very much in play for like two or three years. And we, again, barring unforeseen circumstances, it's not going to happen. Two. It's number two. It's behind Tony Habib. And honestly, it's not, it's a more interesting fight than Tony Habib ever was for me. I, I knew how Tony Habib would go. I had zero doubts on how that fight would turn out. And I think as time has moved on, more people, have come around to the idea that Tony really didn't stand a great chance in that fight, but it didn't matter.

It doesn't matter what the fight would have looked like. What that fight represented, what that fight was was so important, would have been so groundbreaking in such a moment in the sport. It's going to be really hard for any fight to ever pass that. Number two, I mean, there are plenty of other fights that would have been cool to happen, but largely they're not fights that I'm like critically sad about. Maybe it's number three, actually. I might say it's number three because I always wanted GSP Anderson. Even though that never really got negotiated, it was just sort of a fan thing.

That was a fight that I did desperately want and I wasn't sure how it would go and would have been a moment unlike any other. and this is of that category, right? Like, had that fight happened, it would have been the biggest fight of the year, absolutely monumental for what it represented, what it was. Don't really know how the fight would have gone. I could see either outcome, frankly. But for whatever reason, it didn't captivate me

in quite the same way that it captivated a lot of people just from a yearning standpoint. So I still think this is, you know, top three. But I think as I'm looking at it right now, it'd be number three for me. Yeah, and I think the other thing you mentioned your number one still, Habib and Tony Ferguson, was that that fight was like actually booked. Had booked four times?

Yeah, yeah. It was booked four times. I know a couple times it's probably like, you know, in talk to target it, but we know there was pen to paper at least twice, at least a couple of times. No, there was pin to paper four times. There was pen to paper four times. That's what makes that one hurt so much is that it was. It was supposed because I say I was talking about John Jones and Nagano like it it was in the realm of possibility because both guys were talking about it.

It never got to the contracts being sent down phase. It never got into like it's just it was it was. It was Twitter talk. Social media. Social media agreement. That is as far as it went. And the the Habib Tony thing kept building because the first time they were booked it wouldn't have been like it would have been a good fight. It wouldn't have been what it was. But it kept it kept getting pushed down the road and they kept winning in spite of not fighting each other. And it just became this thing where it was cursed and it was cursed. I named a category on damn they were good after it because it's a cursed fight. This does not rise to that level, but a lot of people are going to be really sad that it never happened. And I certainly wish it would have. And I think this joins that kind of pantheon, the biggest fights that never happened.

You know, Fador Randy, which I never gave a shit about, but a lot of people like we're super invested in like there are just some of those fights and this is doomed to be one of them yeah listen and gynu jones is like my number one right now but only because of recency bias all the way it's just it's just if i could book any any fight tomorrow with current active fighters i mean it being gone to john jones by a mile but you know yeah give me some time to look back on these you're right the habib and uh pony ferguson of course gs p anderson always be up there, among others. I'm sure people will have their own suggestions

whenever they get around to listening to this podcast. So there's your suggestions in case we forgot something. At Jed K. Michoud, hit him up. Blow up his DMs. Do it. Speaking of Jones, so just a couple more topics I want to touch upon here, Jed. He is the UFC heavyweight champion.

I mentioned at the top of the show. Francis is still our number one heavyweight and then may fighting global rankings. Now that won't really last for long for people who keep up with the rankings and are wondering how some of the processes work. We do have an 18-month must-compete or you are removed from the rankings clause. Francis last fought in MMA, UFC 270, January 2020. So we are now 16 months away. He's two or three months away.

I don't know if remove him on the 18-month or in the 19th month, but he's two or three months away from being removed. move from the ranking entirely. So based on that, he won't be our number one. I don't know how other people keep their own internal rankings, or they just keep someone up top as long as they know that they're going to compete within a reasonable time. But for us, the controversy will be over in a few months. Francis will be out.

Again, if he competes in boxing, obviously that doesn't count his M.M.A., so he'll still be out. But let's say, Jed, that Francis comes back, keeps winning, gets that huge Ante deLesia fight we keep talking about, knocks off whoever. I'm just trying to look. I don't know. Let's see.

Fighting Bruno Capulotes, a blown up, Cesar Bhutan, Yorgand de Castro, whatever. The competition that's currently in the PFL, again, these are all guys who are currently in the tournament,

so he won't necessarily be matched up with them. Again, he is in a super fight division. Can he become the number, can he remain the number one heavyweight jed with this roster, or just by the fact that we feel, and I'm going to speak

for you on this one because I think you agree. We feel that the superior heavy weights are probably in the UFC, guys like Jeltsilomaida, Sergey Pavlovich. We do feel that. Okay, good. Tommy Aspinall, when he comes back, whoever else the UFC managed to find, plus guys in Belator. I mean, this is a good competition in Belator.

It's Francis, when he comes back to the rankings, when he fights again, I have a feeling, what will it take for him to go back to number one? Can he? I may leave him at number one just in protest. of any other thing here. I know that that's against our rules. I may just leave him there. No.

I do think, look, I think sometimes you've got to carve out an exception, and this feels like a pretty good time to carve out an exception for... We'll talk about this in the wrecking show, Jed. Yes. But that being aside, I suspect, for me, he will be number one when he returns to fight. If I do remove him, I don't care who he beats. He's going to hold that spot. I am dead certain.

that if this unfolded in that particular way, a number of people on our panel would use this as an opportunity slash excuse to just elevate John Jones. We already have a couple of people who have already done it because John Jones beat the hell out of serial gone. And sure, I think we argued about it on the rankings show that I think that that's a very dumb thing. But, you know, a lot of people think the way I do rankings is dumb.

So whatever. you got to let people have their eccentricities. So I'm certain that this will serve as a good excuse for a couple of other people who were contemplating it. But here's the part that's interesting on an AK. Theoretically, John Jones will also be out of our rankings very soon, right? Like, John's going to fight Stebe at some point that will happen this year. And he is publicly intimating that that may be his last fight. least for some time. So Jones beats Depe and then retires and then Ghanu's no longer eligible,

I think Sergei Pavlovich becomes our number one heavyweight. I was going to say, we are, we are possibly by the end of this year. Having Sergey Pavlovich officially be the number one ranked heavyweight in the enemy fighting. Even though John Jones and Francis Gano are alive and you know, likely able to compete. Yes. They will technically be ineligible and Sergey will be be the undisputed number one heavyweight. No, no, I would dispute that. Jelts and Almeida. Maybe Curtis Blades finally gets his moment.

Oh, well, I guess not after the circuit. I'll just have Almeida ranked above Pavlovich at that point in time. So it won't be undisputed, but it will be consensus. That's so much stuff. But so I think that that's the other side of this where if John does beat Steepay and retires, he'll be the number one heavyweight, probably according to our rankings, and by probably, I mean, almost certainly. but then if he retires, when Francis comes back,

it doesn't really matter who Francis beats, even if it is Mateo Schaeffel, I think most, if our rankings panel is looking at it between, is it Francis who is Francis and just beat Matea Schaeffel versus Sergei Pavlovich or Jailton Almada who maybe are fighting each other? I think that Francis will just retake his spot.

So I do think the next time he competes, he will end up as the number one heavyweight in the world. again, even though that is apparently coming to an end relatively soon for us. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those.

Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans,

real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training tread plus at one peloton.ca. The only comparison we have is Demetri's Johnson, who left the UFC as the number, oh, well, he wasn't the number, I should say he was the number one flyway, excuse me, because he lost to Henry Suhudo. I guess theoretically based on his body of work, you could still say he was the best, and he had beaten Suhudo before.

They were kind of one-in-one, but it doesn't matter because then- As soon as I thought he beat Suhudo the second time. Sure. Plus Suhudo then kind of, well, he held the flyway belt. Either way, Suhudo later retired. Demetri's kind of returned to number one, fighting in one. He was active, beat some solid, if not as well-known names over there. And was number one until he lost to Adriano Mades.

And then we had the rise of Brandon Moreno and Davis and Figurato. And it was kind of easy to bump him down. Yeah, I don't know if we see the same thing with Francis. Again, the divisions, the state of the divisions are very different. Their histories are very different. They're very different fighters. But I'm just trying to think of the last time of someone who was arguably number one. It's relatively unprecedented.

And then it's relatively unprecedented. Everything about this Francine Ghani news is unprecedented. So with that, if Habib came back, like if Habib said, I'm done tomorrow, regardless of the fact that Islam's champion, if he just came back, was like, I'm just going to take super fights. And Islam gets to keep being the champion. I, a thousand percent would expect him to reclaim the number one spot in the world. If he came back and lost a close split decision to Charles Olivera, I would leave him unranked, just like I did Henry Suhudo. But that's a whole other show. Let's not get into that.

That's not a whole other. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not good. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. Listen, that's, like I said, you just hate short kings, a.K. you hate them. Start that.

I don't, I don't see height. Though I do love, listen, I do love Francis de Gano and he is not a short king. He's a big king. He's a big king. He's a big king in the NBA sports landscape. Well, fine. He's a big king in the NBA landscape right now.

So I want to close on this yet. I want to close on this. You touched upon it, bit before. But what does this mean? What does this mean for the landscape of MMA? Should this encourage other stars to make a move like this? Again, there's not a lot of people who are going to find themselves in this kind of position that he was in. Like we said, it's so rare. It has essentially never happened before. I don't know when it will happen again. But if anything even close to this Franciscanagan situation comes up, has he made it easier

for them to explore their options and find a real lucrative moment? alternative outside of the UFC. Yeah, I think for sure. I think, look, I still believe pretty firmly that the UFC has a monopsony that should be regulated against, that they have exceedingly outsized influence on the industry in a way that is negative for the fighters. I believe that firmly.

And one day that may legally get proven. It will take long because the wheels of justice move slow in this country particularly. But also there has really never been a better time to be a free agent in the sport. You know, it's not what it should be, but it is still better. There are still more lucrative options out there for you, for certainly fighters of name and note than have ever been before with one doing what they're doing and being successful. With Bellator still holding on and still being filled with a lot of good talent and with people. And their million dollar purses because we've already seen what that has drawn to the PFL in the past two years, realistically.

It tends to be older names, which is tough. But I think that that's slowly been shifting as more people. You talk to fighters off the record. People say it to you, you know, to me. Man, I can make a million dollars in the PFL. That is a big carrot to draw people over. and I think this is an additional carrot. Again, it's not for everybody.

You know, I'm trying to think off the top of my head. Like who Johnny Walker is probably not going to be the head of PFL Brazil or whatever, but he can compete for a million dollars. And with a company that has shown that they are actively invested in the growth of the sport and their brand globally, the investment and involvement. of fighters more than just as a transactional one-to-one, here's X amount of dollars, you fistfight this dude. Not everyone's going to want that, too. To be very clear, this is not for everybody from the fighter's sake. Not every fighter wants to be involved in this role and this capacity in the

sport, but for those that do, for any fighter, you know, like, like a Leslie Smith or whatever, a bit of a callback to an earlier day in MMA, any fighter who does want. You know, any fighter who does want to take a more proactive hand in this sport. The PFL is planted a flag saying, hey, we are open to this. You, maybe not for everybody, but you can at least come to the table with us and say, hey, what is this fighter committee? How does one get on the board? Can I have a role in that if I sign with you?

And I think that this is just a better way to do it, particularly for them. So I don't know that, like I've said a couple of times, I don't know that this is going to have an immediate huge impact that there's going to be a rush of people as they hit free agency saying PFL's the home, I want to go there. But I do think that this elevates them in the landscape globally of this and as an attractive destination. And particularly for, you know, African fighters are going to be like, there's a PFL Africa who's being chaired by the most notable African fighter in the world and a dude who has very

publicly stood up for what is right. I would like to work with that man moving forward. So I think that this is absolutely going to be some level of change. I don't know exactly how much, but we'll see kind of as the cards come out, we'll see how this all breaks down. Yeah, it does. I'm willing to say that this is a, if you recall Leonardo DiCaprio and Django and Chained, you had my interest.

Now you have my attention move for a lot of the fighters out there. I was about to say there could have been any number of, quotes from you. No, there's a lot of bad quotes familiar to craft for in that movie, but I'm going with the trailer, you know, acceptable. You had my interest. Now you have my attention. And again, I think that's the way we'll be for a lot of fighters, because, listen,

that million dollar thing already super appealing, the whole tournament format, people like that, but now you see this sort of next level deal. And again, maybe you can't get all these things Francis got, but suddenly there's just a little more freedom to pursue other things than you might get under UFC deal. So it is fascinating stuff. Again, I just think I think a positive news overall for everyone. I will say from a personal standpoint, happy for Francis Ngano. You mentioned it before, Jed, the guy who's just been taken, excuse me, a lot of undue criticism just because people didn't want to wait. People want, people want to know as soon as he was stepping out of the cage recital, people were like, okay, well,

what's going to do? Are you going to, is he going to fight again this year? Is he going to, He's going to set out of his contract. And then he officially became a free agent a year later. And right away, it's like, oh, does he have a deal in place? Is it a Fury thing going to happen? We saw him face off of Fury. Does he already have a deal with Fury? And it's like, guys, this is real life business, real life, big dollars.

It takes time. It takes time. It sounds like him and his team did a really good job. No, no. Now. Want it now. They did their due diligence. I'm Verruca Salt.

I want it now. They did their due diligence. That's a sexy word in combat's I know. And it looks like they came out with the best deal that could have got for their guy. I want to be clear, due diligence is not a sexy word in literally any avenue of life. All I see is fans talking about due diligence. All that the kids are talking about it. It's, they're TikTok talking about due diligence. And this is the one who went to law school and you're here putting due diligence. I'm just trying to be on your level, man. This sounds crazy. But within the

next two years. I don't know what Jake Paul's plans are, but within the next two years, the BFL could have Francis and Gadu and Jake Paul competing in their smart cage. That's a nice move. I hope they're competing against each other. I hope so too. Can I let before we close this out, please, I just for the sake of saying it, because I'm sure that there's some little ghost out there listening to this podcast and screaming into the ether that we haven't mentioned it, let's be clear. I think this is an A plus on both sides. I think this is wonderful. I will acknowledge that this is the, I think this is the best fit for Francis and Ghanu for all the reasons aforementioned. We'll acknowledge that this is the most

disappointing signing for Francis Inganu of all of the promotions he could have gone to. If you are exclusively a fan who doesn't care about the moral imperatives here, who doesn't care about justice or et cetera, who is just a fan. And that that came off critically. and maybe there is a touch of criticism in there, but I also totally recognize that, and I'm not here to crap on you if that's how you feel. If MMA is your escape and you don't really care about the politics, etc. of it,

you just want to watch people hit each other so you can unwind after a hard day of work. Totally get it. And I actually think that that is a fair and reasonable approach here. If you're one of those people, undeniably this is the most disappointing signing. Because in one, one, you could do cooler things with him.

They've got more heavyweights of note in Aetali Malikin. Actually, that's a fight that would be compelling to me. Or Jean Bueller, you know, your mileage are going to vary. But there are at least a couple of names there, plus the idea that he could do other things in the one cage is interesting. Bellator probably has the best roster outside of the UFC in that regard. So there are more compelling fights there. Not that a Bader fight is great. but it's reasonable and you've got some other things happening.

The UFC is obviously the UFC. Bare knuckle is just funny. Like that just would have been fun to watch Francis Ngano bare knuckle hit people. Risen. Risen stomping on people. France got to stomp's would be hilarious. Incredibly fun.

One, you know, PFL has the weakest roster by a good amount, frankly, for heavyweight. So strictly from a competitive standpoint, if that's the lens to which you view this, this is a disappointing signing. And I understand that. And if this is going to ultimately make you be like, look, I'm not that interested, whatever, I get it.

And that's not a wrong approach. I will just say, and I've said this kind of from the beginning, that matters less to me in general for a lot of other reasons. But from a strictly competitive standpoint, it also matters the least to me because of all the fighters I need to watch fight good dudes, Francis and Ghana is pretty low on the list. Like, I'll just happily watch him nuke anybody because Alistair Overeem was good at fighting when they fought. Who could tell?

Who knew? Because it didn't matter. The fight was over instantaneously. And it left me with one of the most indelible highlights in the history of this sport when he, like, literally decapitated Alster Overeim. Like, it kind of doesn't. He's uniquely insulated from that criticism. them for me. I mean, yeah, you'd love to see him fight the best always because that is generally more fun. But him just go and thumping on Mateo's shuffle is still going to be its own kind

of enjoyable. So I just wanted to offer that out to the people who aren't as as rosy about this because we've been very, very happy about this, I think, for this whole hour we've talked. Yeah. And I would say even during this whole, again, 16-month stretch of what's Francis going to do we we kind of preached optimism for the most part we mentioned the potential pitfalls again people might consider this to be one of them that he didn't again we don't immediately know what his boxing deal is going to be and and who is he going to fight in the pfl that's legitimate concerns absolutely legitimate concerns but this is a the way this news has landed and the way it was delivered and the way it sounds on paper fantastic i think it sounds great so far we'll see how it plays out

but that's listen that's the way it is with all combat sports that's what it is with all sports in general. So I really hope. Maybe they sign some people. Maybe they can sign. When you have that there, they're like, here's what I'm thinking, right, AK? I don't know when his contract with the UFC is up, but just taking a quick glance at their rankings. Ty Tuivasa could be a great chairman of PFL Australia. And you bring. I don't know if you want tie in the board room. I'll be honest. No, no, you got to have the guy who's going to take the top, like let the top button out. Like, really. France is pretty straight-laced.

You know, he's managing PFL Africa. Plus, I think Australia needs to have a guy like Ty. Yeah, they're running it up. So all I'm saying, little shooies across the board, be great. Ty's a little more of an old school. I think Mad Men style boardroom guy. But yes, I don't want to digress too much. Again, Franzeghanu, he is with the PFL.

He is now part of the PFL Global Advisory Board. He may box in 2023. He may fight in M.A. in 2024. But he has a home that we do know. So thank you, everyone, for listening to this. Thank you, Jed, of course, for joining me. By the time this goes out, most likely, people will have access to even more coverage, where we're wall-to-wall on this from M.A. fighting.

and also the MMA hour, Ariel Halwani, again, if you haven't listened to it yet, based on, you know, how linear how time works. 1 p.m. on the M.A. hour, special episode, Francis de Kahnu will, of course, talk with his boy, Ariel, and we'll get even more details, more insight from the man himself. And I'll be talking about this on heck of a morning as well. I'll be a guest hosting for Mike Heck who has jury duty. So you haven't heard, this is only the beginning. Everything we've talked about today, Jed, we've Pretty comprehensive, but this is only the beginning. You and I can only cover so much and can only see so far into the future. But again, thank you, Jed. And let's see what this deal means for everyone and for the PFO.

Love you guys. A podcast network.