MMA Fighting - Reaction: UFC Announces James Krause Suspension in Nevada, Cuts Darrick Minner

Episode Date: December 2, 2022

Following the UFC's statement regarding James Krause being suspended by Nevada, and any fighters that choose to be coached by Krause will no longer be permitted to participate in UFC events pending the results of an ongoing investigation, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Alexander K. Lee react to the news. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster, The Downloaded.

It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine, available now, only from Audible. The Vox Media Podcast Network.

Mycac here for MMAfighting.com. As you can see, my best friend AK is here as well, and we will check it with him for a minute. And for a little while now, several weeks, as a matter of fact, We have been wondering what is going on with this whole thing regarding the U.S.C. betting on fights. What is going on with this whole thing?

Because we have seen shifty betting lines. We've seen fighters saying things in post-fight interviews that caused us to pause. Dana White has been asked about it. We've also seen provinces in Canada banning gambling on UFC fights. We've seen two in two days being confirmed, Ontario and Alberta. We've seen New Jersey halt gambling action on fights involving James Krause or his fighters, but we've been wondering what's going on because nobody's really talking. Well, a little while ago, that changed because the UFC began to speak.

Hunter Campbell informed fighters and managers of some things. And on top of that, the UFC released a public statement regarding the matter, which initially stemmed from the November 5th fight between D.C., Derek Minner and Shilin Nerden Beka in Las Vegas where betting lines shifted astronomically in Nerden Becker's favor heading into the fight before Minner was stopped in 70 seconds. Clearly there was an injury going on there

and we have just been sort of out of the loop ever since wondering what the hell is going on. What is the UFC going to say with all of this? Well, here's what the UFC had to say. I'm going to pull this up to read it. Following the fight involving Derek Minner on November 5th, 2022, UFC was informed by sources that suspicious betting patterns had been observed on the fight.

In the weeks following the fight, UFC has been cooperating with multiple ongoing government investigations into the facts and circumstances surrounding that contest. On November 18th, the Nevada State Athletic Commission informed USC and Miner's coach James Krause that Krause's license was suspended and would remain so while the Nevada Athletic Commission conducted an investigation into the matter. UFC has since advised Krause and the respective managers working with impacted fighters that effective immediately, fighters who choose to continue to be coached by Krause or continue to

train in his gym will not be permitted to participate in UFC events pending the outcome of the aforementioned government investigations. Further, UFC has released Derek Minner from the organization. Along with the safety and health of its fighters, the UFC believes there is no more important component of professional mixed martial arts than the integrity of the sport. Weeks prior to the Minter Fight, the organization sent formal notification to all fighters and members of their teams that they and certain other defined quote-unquote insiders were prohibited from wagering on UFC events. This was an extension of the UFC's pre-existing and since updated fighter code of conduct as well as a recognition of various state, federal, and international laws and

regulations expressly prohibiting conduct that threatens the integrity of the sport, including, but not limited to insider betting based on non-public information, fight fixing, and other such misconduct. UFC will continue to take all necessary and appropriate steps to ensure compliance with and enforcement of its policies and those of the jurisdictions in which it operates. Wow. A.K. We got something here. We kind of had a feeling we had something here.

The story has become massive. And I have a feeling we're just cutting into the... Jed made a stake reference on the preview show. We're just cutting into the steak of the matter, it appears. AK, my best friend, what is your reaction to this? I mean, we're waiting for some sort of shoe to drop with all this. Nobody has been saying a word about it for weeks. the UFC, a day before a big event in Orlando, Florida.

This was the time for them to do so. What was your reaction to this? I don't want to dwell on this part too much. Can I just say that you and the rest of the MMA media are somewhat vindicated for some of the criticism by like, oh, why weren't you guys digging into this? And you addressed it many times in heck of a morning. Like you've reached out, you've dug in, people are silent. I think we can pretty clearly see why it looks like the UFC and anyone investigating this

is moving pretty quick. quickly on it and we're ready to make their own action. And the people upon, who are being affected by the action, obviously, we're probably aware that the gears were in motion as well. So obviously no one, you know, from Krause's team was going to say anything. Why would they talk to the media? Well, you know, thinking that this might happen and anyone associate with them. So, you know, guys, I understand.

I understand that people wanted like the facts right away. People wanted like, why isn't there in media? Why can't they get in on this story? And it's like, listen, sometimes we do what we can. and we can't get in there. And then when something like this comes out so quickly amid this controversy, well, now you know why. Now you know why.

The official word was ready to come out any time. So I don't know. Maybe if we'd gone all in, we could have gotten it like a couple of days earlier. It wouldn't have really mattered. The stories out there now. It is official. It's official from the UFC from Hart-Numble. I am just blown away.

I never, I try to swear publicly. I think people know this. And my reaction when I saw Ariel was one of the first people to tweet. this out was just sorry to tweet out about the James Krause fighters being banned from UFC events. I was just, oh shit. I've never seen anything like this before. I don't think anyone any of us have.

We knew this had the potential to be really bad. It was announced just a few, you know, it was announced a few weeks ago. It was official that the Derek Minter fight was being investigated. Of course, it was just, it had become so public, such an obvious case that had to be looked into. We knew that James Krause was essentially persona non-grata in the UFC. Who was the fighter that he wasn't allowed to?

Miles Johns. Miles Johns, who just joined the glory team had said. I think he had said in case that James Krause had been suspended. We later learned not necessarily that he'd been suspended but obviously being under investigation had kind of been asked not to show up to events and now it is official.

Now it has gone all the way to a ban. James Cross obviously not welcome. None of us fighters welcome. It's so crazy. We have one of his fighters, Marcelo Rojo, who is fighting tomorrow on the Orlando card. And Aaron Bronseter is reporting that Rojo will be allowed to compete, which I think is only fair. And then down the road, we have Brandon Moreno, who, of course, we know it is, has attributed a lot of his success, winning the interim title to working with James Krause. And he fights at Brandon, excuse me, Jason Figurato for a fourth time. That's coming up. It's not in

the country, but again, for anyone who didn't like see the sort of the fine print there, not only is Krause's license taken away Nevada, but USC fighters are, sorry, fighters in general who are associated with Krause, who are coached by Krause, are banned from UFC events. So I'm not sure how this is going to affect Krause fighters who are associated with other promotions. This is, this is not over. We saw, we saw the domino's starting to fall with, uh, Ontario where I live, that,

them banning the gambling. We just saw Alberta as well today. banning gambling on UFC. So you got the sense that there's this one fight, this Minner, Nurtambique incident, and James Krause's well-documented history of sort of providing gambling tips on,

on M-A fights. You felt the ripples were coming, and now this is a huge, huge splash right here, and it's not over. Guys, it's not over. There's more to come. Yeah, and you, I don't think the timing I'm really surprised of,

because once the news about Alberta, sort of jumping on board with Ontario, came to be. I mean, at that point, you were, you were in a position where it was a snowball that was rolling down a hill and it was just getting bigger and bigger. And we've reached out to other provinces and their governments as well to try to get some answers

on whether or not they're going to follow suit. And it wouldn't surprise me if they did. And if they all do that, what does that mean going down south? Does that mean North America to do the same? And the UFC's not dumb. They're not dumb. Like, they have a lot of money. coming in from one of their major sponsors.

It is Draft Kings. If you watch a UFC event, draft Kings is shown, logo mentioned a million times throughout the broadcast. This is obviously a very profitable relationship. So if anything were to happen, if gambling on the UFC was not just a Canadian thing, not just a New Jersey thing,

but it just became like a nationwide thing. This should be horrible for the UFC. And they know this. So I don't think the timing of this was really all that surprising. I think they had to say something at this point. but them going as far at this point of saying, like you said, the banning of the actual fighters, saying if you continue to be coached by this guy or you continue to train a glory MMA, you ain't fighting for us.

You mentioned Brandon Moreno. That's the big one. And again, we don't know what's going on because like before, no one's really talking right now. Jeff Molina has a fight lined up with, I believe he's fighting Jimmy Flick, David O'Nama, I believe it has a fight coming up. Tim Elliott's part of that gym. and there's many others who are a part of that gym right now who probably have fights coming up. So are you surprised that the UFC has gone this far?

I don't think this is a massive stretch right now, at least while this investigation is ongoing, because who knows? Maybe it turns out Krause didn't do anything wrong. We don't know this. We don't know this. This is, we're just, this looks bad, right? But are you surprised that it has gone this far? I'm not surprised, and this is the kind of reaction like we've wanted the UFC to have,

like when other incidents come up. You know, we've talked a lot about fighters who violate sort of the code of conduct and then always going like, why hasn't the U.S. you see like suspended this person or cut this person or taking some sort of action or make a statement? So while this doesn't absolve them of sort of past inactivity, you know, as far as enforcing the code of conduct, it's a step in the right direction. Now, it's a step that they're more than willing to take because of how much money is involved. I mean, there's a lot of people to answer to when this kind of scandal comes along.

Like I said, they have sponsors, they have executives, they have shareholders. This is a huge, this is a big deal. This is a government investigation that is going to be taking place involving Derek Minner and James Krause and so on and so forth. So it could get really bad. And if the UFC, you really want to get ahead of this. So as far as they're, you know, when they're sort of assessing risk and assessing. whether they should make a statement about a certain case, like a fighter misbehaving, you know, getting involved,

you know, breaking a law, getting involved in some public incident, some negative public incident. They do a risk assessment. Like, should we even comment on this? Or should we wait for it to just kind of go away, kind of brushed under the rug? And they've brushed under the rug, a lot of scandals. I mean, a lot of scandals involving some of their fighters.

Connor McGregor stuff. Conner McGregor has, I don't recall if he was ever formally suspended, but like he's had all kinds of trouble with the law. And the U.C.'s just kind of taking it as a, well, you know, that's his business. let him handle it. But when something like this has become, it's again,

we talked about the ripples, just becoming so widespread, so quickly, everyone's talking about it. And again, most importantly, there's so much money involved. The UFC had to say something.

They have to let me, they have to wash their hands as it were of, of a coach who I'm sure they would like to describe as like a rogue element. You know, it's like, oh, we didn't know,

our own gree, he just retweeted a Dana White press conference. So when he was talking with the men or Nenbeck about, and at the time, Dana White was just like, oh, there's no proof that anybody that was involved in the fight camp and with the potential knowledge of the injury was involved in it. Well, that seems a little naive now in retrospect. So, yeah, they really have to have to course correct here, and they really have to be aggressive with cracking down on this. It's a PR thing.

And again, there's people that they have to answer to behind the scenes who are like, you've got to shut all this talk down now. Think of it, Mike, like when the U.S. had the idea with Tim Donagy. You remember when Tim Donagy was involved in the betting? And it's very quickly kind of opened up this like, oh, my gosh, people picking out all these games. Like, this game was refficked by Donagy and NBA officiating is still questionable to begin with. Who are like, how many other games were affected? And by the end of the investigation, it was like, you know, David Stern at the time had said, oh, well, it was a rogue element.

It was just this one guy. It was just this one guy. And he's out of here. Back to business. the NBA is saved. So the UFC kind of has to do the same thing here and say, oh, it's just James Krauss. It's only James Krauss and some of his associates

that are potentially involved in this sort of thing. And they hope that if that's, you know, they cut ties, then they can move on with this at some point. But we'll see, we'll see how much more we find out. Because the Ontario and Alberta Commission seem pretty confident that there might be more of this than, than we even initially know. Yeah, the Moreto thing is probably the most interesting

because as of right now, and it's not like 100% official, at least Dana White says that they're still working on the card. Him and Viggy 4 is the main event. So we don't even know how this affects the fight in general. Like Will Moreno just be like, oh, man, like, this is such a hindrance. I don't have to push this thing back.

Like, I don't know what the hell they're going to do. I'm sure every coach on earth would be like, oh, Brandon Moreno, come to the gym. Like, we'll have you. He's a delight. Who wouldn't want Brandon Moreno over there? But a lot of people, like I'm just, I'm looking at some of the comments right now. Like one in particular, this is what I've gotten a lot and have seen a lot is why cut Derek Minner, but not cut T.J. Dillishaw,

because Derek maybe didn't disclose an injury. T.J. obviously didn't disclose his shoulder injury. The difference here is you kind of saw it in the fight, but the betting odds for the Sterling Dillishaw fight, if an hour before that title fight at UFC 280 went down. And we were doing the watch party. And we were watching the odds. We're all over because freaking GC's there and he's all over the stuff anyways. If all of a sudden,

the swing, Al Jemaine Sterling went from like a minus 170 favorite. It's like a minus 340 favorite in a span of an hour. We would right then know that something was up. And that's what happened here. I mean, it was just, it wasn't just the money line on the Middard Nurt and Becca fight. It was first round finish, first round finish under one and a half or whatever it was is everything favoring nerd and be

backa or the fight to be stopped early and that's why the line swung as much as they did and you don't swing that much unless you're putting big dollars down like lots and lots of zeros so these aren't like 10 dollar bets coming in these are big ass bets coming in so there's the difference there it didn't affect any i mean there's obviously some betting outcomes and maybe some sports books are like eh this kind of looks weird, but the lines didn't swing in such a weird way like this one did. And that's the problem. Because when you're dealing with people's money and betting on fights and you see lines swing so significantly in such a short amount of time, that immediately screams red flag.

That's why everybody reacted to it that they did. And that's why this has become a story. Because if those betting lines didn't change as quickly as they did AK, we might even be having this discussion right now, right? Yeah, this is the first thing we learned as a kid, Mike. It's only cheating if you get caught, right? So the fact that the line moves so dramatically, someone messed up. Someone slipped up.

Someone talked too much. Whoever it is that had this information, whether they meant to or not, it got out there. And it just could not be ignored. It was such a nondescript fight. A fight that like why would so much of the general public have interest in this undercard bout featuring two guys who are just like middle, barely, middle of the pack, uh, featherweight fighters. So it, it, it's, it's absolutely the amount. I should give Nudon Bicka a little more respect than that. He's, he's doing quite well.

But, um, it's, it's totally the attention that was brought to it. Um, because yes, we didn't know, Dillashaw knew about it. And, and I'll say something, if, if there was any insider betting going on there, at least they kept on the down low, because the line did not move significantly. Um, and that kind of stuff is important. So a lot of, a lot of people are going to be unhappy with whoever it is, uh, and Krause's camp or whoever is that knew about that injury, that may have spoiled this whole game for everyone. Because I'm not a cynical person. I'm not a presumptuous person.

I don't want to say that this kind of chicanery is widespread in MMA, but it would also be insanely naive to suggest that it never happens, especially we're always going on about fighter pay. I was talking earlier about the UFC's risk assessment. I assure you that a fighter, if they were hypothetically, we're planning to, or we're even thinking of engaging in this kind of insider betting. They're thinking,

well, how much do I get paid to be an undercar, a prelim UFC fighter, how much kind of potentially make by betting on this fight, by, you know, or letting people know I might be compromised or someone I know might be compromised.

So it's such a tangled web. Mike, I want to read one comment from Sean Sullivan, who says, I guess injury is going to have to start being disclosed. And that would be a hell of a thing for the UFC to do, because why did the NFL, you know, why is the NFL's injury report so famous and so like you know so highly paid attention to you why did they even start doing it um whenever whatever early 2000s or maybe before that why did they start releasing the injury list for gambling purposes it's not for fan yeah there's some element of fans to be like oh okay oh this guy's not playing i'm just good to know guys it's for gambling the NFL injury list exists so that people can you know set the lines properly how they want to wager this is the UFC if they want to be credible might have to start doing the same thing because this has just been a a a shrub

and look the other way thing for so long, even before the TG Dillusor incident. Because every fighter after they win says, man, I can't believe I went into this with with no cartilage of my knees or something. And it's like, what the hell's going on? How is this getting past medicals? So, I mean, am I saying the U.C. is definitely going to start doing something and having an injury report? I would doubt it.

But it certainly seems like a possibility now after this kind of incident. Yeah, I would say that the like the testing and all that, like getting all your medical's done might be a little more in depth now and it might cost the company a little more money but I think it's worth it at this point to spend it I mean you're making so much of it and another problem with this and I listen I don't want to turn this into a fighter pay thing but it's part of the conversation not like necessarily the betting thing but for the end of disclosure because if you think about it if you haven't fought in like 18 months and you haven't made any money and you have a fight booked and you're hurt but you haven't made any money like you you're

going to find your way to get your ass into that octagon no matter what and that's tough man it's it's just tough and this is not a fighter pay issue but you have to put yourself in the fighter's shoes like they're not going to if they need this money they're going to do everything in their power to not disclose this they're going to hide it they're going to put on a poker face they're going to do the best that they can who who deals with all this stuff and it's just this is a crazy time and i think i mean i think every organization is probably going to come out and have something to about this. I know next time Scott Coker speaks, he's going to have to deal with it. I know the PFL had some gambling stuff that they had to deal with. Remember the whole Challenger series

thing wasn't live, but they were still putting out betting odds. So people found out about it. That took a while, took a lot of those lines off. And PFL is, I guess, okay now, but you never know. Like, what if somebody was there and was like, oh, I already know who won all these fights and just made a bunch of money? It's like, it's like playing the lottery the day after it happened. it's right there and you know it. So it's just very, it's just very strange. And I think the UFC

did the right thing with the timing here. I think they had to say something. They had no choice. And it'll be interesting to see what happens. Now, this is not a permanent ban that they're just saying right now, this is all pending the outcome of the investigation. So either way,

if Krause is not found to be guilty of all of this, then, I think they're good to go. And even the dog, even the dog is mad about what's happening right now. But quiet, Shiloh, I know, I know. It's a wild story. Brandon Marino. We don't even know.

It is. It is. So I don't want to spend an hour doing this, but this is the information we have right now. Right now, Ontario, Alberta, they are out of the UFC betting. Maybe this is what they need. Maybe this is what they need. They want to see responsibility from the promotion that we could do this on the up and up. And by putting this statement out and trying to make these moves, perhaps that'll show them something.

And maybe they'll come right back. Who knows? Or maybe this is just the beginning of a comeback. But final thoughts on all of this, A.K., because I have a feeling, knowing MMA and knowing this media space, probably in another hour, we're going to have another update. But what are your thoughts as of right now? Your final words on this? I mean, first of all, I've always said, don't gamble. Let's, let's be honest, if we just, if we all just avoided this, this heinous activity, I mean, we wouldn't even be in this mess and

the first place. But no, but seriously, it's, it's there, it is a ridiculously lucrative industry. I don't think I'm blowing any minds by saying that. The amount of money that goes through gambling in the United States is, is absurd. There's a reason that you, that Canada was so excited to get online betting implemented to get a lot, have a lot of those restrictions raised. In Ontario, it was just this past April when, when it finally became a sort of an online betting free-for-all. obviously that's not the case with the UFC now and still bet on other sports but i think um UFC was a was certainly significant part of that so um again we've just never seen a fight a coach excuse me getting this kind of hot water uh especially one is such a prominent coach so

respected so respected mike you and i are always talking about um calling james cross uh as to the cheat code you know we would we would joke that man if i knew across in the corner that's the guy i'm probably picking on fight night um but we didn't know that uh the the name cheat code could have other implications. So again, it's all, like we said, he's just under investigation. We don't know. People are asking about Derek Minner, like could it have been someone else like in Derek Minner's camp that, you know, that leaked info. Yeah, that's entirely what we're saying is it might not be it could be like it might be unjust for Derek Miner to be released. This is just something the UFC has to do with the information they have now. This is what's in their power. They can cut

Derek Minter. He's he's coming off a lawsuit so they can cut him. James Kraus again is the most prominent name sort of tied to this right now. Well, okay, well, we know. We know. we have a bunch of fighters of his on the roster. What a statement it makes if we ban him and we ban some of these fighters. And we get one of our UFC champions, one of our very well-like UFC chances in Brennan-Rano, not just like banning him, but at least getting him away from James Krause.

Because this is, make no mistake, that statement today wasn't ultimatum. It's not saying like, oh, everyone, everyone is just, who is associated with James Krause ever is gone. They're saying, going forward, if you are coached by James Krause, you will not be allowed to participate at a UFC event. So make of that what you will.

You make, you know, go there's a say you can, you can break ties with this man and then you will be more than welcome to participate at a UFC event. But at the moment, again, he's, again, guys like Brandon Marino, Jeff Molina has some really, really, really good fighters in the UFC. So it's a strong statement. I'm kind of impressed by the UFC, even though I know this is kind of something they had to save their tales, given how this is how the story is spreading and the effects having again on regions on situations even beyond the UFC so uh my my mind is just still blown yeah and

i assume and i don't like to assume much because you know why but i assume most of his fighters are not aware of this if if he is a part of this and again we don't know if he is or not there is an investigation ongoing we can assume we can perception look at it in a certain way we can have our opinions, you could have your opinions, but we don't know for sure. But either way, you got to feel for the fighters. You got to feel for the fighters involved, especially the ones like Moreno, like Jeff Molina, other guys who have fights booked right now, especially in the next month or so. Holy cow, man. Holy cow. Now they have to change everything, change everything around, figure it all out. But, I mean, again, we don't know. You can call BS all you want.

one eye, two head, but we don't know. We don't know. We can perceive, it looks bad. There's no doubt about it. I'm not going to deny it. It doesn't look bad, but we don't know. We don't know. And for all the people again, I'll say this one more time. We're like, oh, the MMA didn't cover this. When no one speaks, you can't cover it. You can't do anything about it. And no one was speaking. Today, people are speaking. So there you go. Now they're speaking. We have some answers. What we do with it, we'll see what comes from here. But I have a feeling this is going to get worse before it gets better. So that's it.

What a day it has been. UFC Orlando tomorrow. And if any more comes from the story, we will have you covered right here on mambathleting.com. Thank you for watching. This is what we got right now. Thank you very much. Have a good rest of the night.

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.