MMA Fighting - The A-Side Live Chat w/ Anthony Smith and Mackenzie Dern - MMA Fighting

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

For this episode, UFC strawweight Mackenzie Dern and light heavyweight contender Anthony Smith join José Youngs and Alexander K. Lee as they break down some of the top storylines in the world of MMA. Follow José Youngs: @JoseYoungs Follow Petesy Carroll: @PetesyCarroll Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow Anthony Smith: @lionheartasmith Follow Mackenzie Derm:  @mackenziedern Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Everyone, Jose, I'm here with a special Monday edition of the A-Side Live Chat here. Now, not with me as Pete and Carol. He's doing Eurobatch, so Alexander K. Lee is joining us instead. We had two more guests this week. Last week we had Shorty Torres and Ackle Evan Smith who talked about their fights falling out recently due to the coronavirus. But this week we have two fighters who have fights coming up, and their fights are still on. As of right now, we have Anthony Lionheart Smith who made events U.S.C. Lincoln against Gloved

Cher. And, of course, McKenzie Dern fights on the preliminary card. So, McKenzie, I'll start with you because ladies first. How have you been dealing with the situation taking over this world right now? Your fight is still happening. As of right now, we haven't heard anything. So pretty much every fight up to your fight has been canceled. So for you, as a mother, a new mom, how has life been amidst chaos right now?

Yeah, I mean, thankfully, I mean, my daughter, she's not in school yet. So she's been coming to the academy with me since she was little. Now we try to just keep her at home. My husband, he's a surfer. So the same thing, at least here in California, he can still go to the beach. So he goes, surfs. I stay at home with Moa. He comes back home.

Then I go to training. And the only thing, like, it's hard is just because it's a lot of one-on-one, just me and my coach, no one else there, you know. And it's kind of hard to do like those sparrings and stuff. My dad just came now from Arizona to help me change you to my kind of groundwork. So, I mean, we're training, you know, of course it's not the best, you know, the best camp and everything that we wish we could have to prepare for a fight. But, you know, we're here.

This is our job, you know, and ready. And just hope everyone stays safe, you know. We want to try and get this over with as fast as possible. So just work, home, homework. We have like a little outside area. I'm doing workouts there. a lot of ladder agility work and then back at home. And thank you.

And any same question for you? You're actually preparing for a five-round fight, and now your camp is probably a lot more minimized with less contact with less training partners. A lot of gyms are being closed out to write that article on some gyms in Milwaukee, I believe, actually police came in and shut it down. So what's been life been with you? How have you been dealing with this coronavirus in the middle of fight camp? You know, to be honest, the only thing that's really,

changed for me is my travels back and forth between Kansas City and Denver. I'm really fortunate, man. I have like a real cool little triangle situation between Omaha, Nebraska, Kansas City, and Denver. So now I'm just kind of, I'm in Omaha, but it's my same team, you know? Like, nothing's really changed for me as far as training at home. So my team here in Nebraska is pretty small anyways as far as like the team is in my team. So it's, it's, it's really changed for me as far as, It's the same like eight, nine, ten guys that I train with all the time anyways. You know, my longtime jiu-jitsu coach that I've been with from White Belt through Blackbelt is here. I've had this same boxing coach for 10 years.

Like nothing's really changed for me. You know, and unfortunately, like, you know, like with McKenzie, like she's in a different area where it's a lot crazier. Like here, we're in the Midwest and we're kind of small-town gangsters anyway. So we just, we're just shaking and moving and doing the same things that we normally do. it's a lot less, like, the open classes are small, you know, like, there's not, like, a lot of traffic through the gym, but the team situation is for the most part the same. Kenzie, I'll ask you to ask, Ashton, when she was on last week, if the UFC had been in contact with her, and she actually flew to London, landed, and then she had to fly back

because her fight was canceled. So has the UFC been in contact with you at all, like, really, like, giving you updates on your fight happening, or have you reached out to figure out if this, if you had to be able to, if you your fight was still happening later in April. Yeah, I mean, I talked with my manager, just asking him, and the UFC too, they sent me emails and just, okay, and so far, like, if you have any symptoms and that type of thing, to let them know. And just what you guys heard to you, you know, like that the, I think the next three events

were canceled. So far, the Ferguson and Kabib fight are still happening. So, you know, we're just prepared in case they want to move our fight. to a different country or something, you know, but hopefully we'll be done by them. But they've been sending emails and keeping updated on everything. Same for you, too, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah, you know, Dana and Hunter both reached out. I mean, I've been out 10 months and coming off of two surgeries, so they understand.

It's not just the financial part of it. Like, if ring rust is a thing, like, if it's, like, if it's, is a thing. I need to run back out there so that I'm not, you know, so I'm not out 12, 13, 14 months. So Dana just reached out and wanted us to know that, you know, if anything happened with my

family or if there was anything that the UFC could do to help us or whatever that they would make sure it was taken care of and wanted to let me know not to take my foot off the gas. He said he knows that I'm, we're about to, and I'm sure McKenzie's in the same

spot. Like we're at that point we're going to start turn in the corner to start peeking. And he doesn't want, he doesn't, he doesn't want me to pull my foot off the gas. He said, you know, in a curse word-laced rant, like, this is happening. Keep my foot on the gas and

let him figure the rest out. And honestly, man, I've never had a reason not to believe or trust Dana and I'm not going to start now, that's for sure. Guys, I wanted to ask if you watched the UFC Brasilia show and kind of got an idea of how you know, these fights might look in the

because, you know, fighting in front of nobody. So both did you wise watch that show and also kind of what's the strangest atmosphere you've ever fought in, whether it's in, you know, MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, McKenzie, you know, any other competition. McKenzie, can you go first? Yeah, I saw the fights, you know, I think it's, I mean, I guess it could, what I, for me watching it, you know, I said like, man, it seems kind of like a sparring, you know, just at the academy, you know, there's not like really all these people, you know, trying to

like yelling and all that adrenaline. It's just kind of like you and your other training partners. And it's almost worse at Sparring, you know, because we train with each other every day. So they like all your weaknesses and your training partners, they kind of really know how to push you to your limits, you know? So watching it, I was like, oh, you know, like, okay. So maybe it will just kind of be like one more day in the gym

and just, you know, that adrenaline at the gym, you know, where you're like, oh, man, my training partner, he always knows that I go to the wrong side and everything or something like that. So, but, yeah, I mean, I think just. be prepared and I'm excited, you know. Kind of the same thing, you know, I had my baby and I was out, you know, and you're from fighting, and now since October was my last fight, it's almost like a pregnancy again, you know,

just how much time I've been out from the ring, you know, actually fighting. And, of course, I've been training and everything, but, you know, just ready to be back inside of there. I've been trying to talk to them like, hey, you know, I want to get back in and fighting as soon as possible, you know, like I don't want to take so much time off from being in the ring, you know, actually competing because it really is different than when you're just training outside. So as long as it happens and everything goes good, I'm excited if there's people or no people,

you know, we're ready to put on a show. That's what we train for. Yeah. And Anthony, what did you think of seeing that kind of weird empty arena situation? Listen, guys, I again, I think you guys, a lot of you guys have heard the stories of some of the places I fought. And empty arena would not be the weirdest place that I would find. I mean, I fought in strip clubs, and bowling alleys and barns and just all sorts of crazy cases. So, like, when I started in the Midwest, this game wasn't, it wasn't nearly where it is now, you know? Like, it's definitely blown up locally. But, like, in 2006, it was the Wild Wild West around here.

So, I mean, I'm pretty much like me, Kenzie. As long as it happens, I'm good with it, you know. Like, I've been in this game a long time. I've run into a lot crazier situations and empty. you. Now for those of you who do watch the show, we actually answer a lot of fan questions. Fans send in for this.

We've had a lot of people. We scour Twitter. We scour our site for anything. So KCR director has a few teed up. Casey, if you want a TN of them up right now for McKenzie or Anthony, I know McKenzie is short on time. She has to get back to training plus. So we'll try to do some of these rapid fire ones to you guys.

Whoa. From Kukukukkai, time. comment who says, how is everyone keeping themselves busy during this outbreak? So I would imagine Anthony and McKenzie are both in fight camp. So I'll pose it to you this way. How are you guys doing outside of fight camps? Like normally, I would imagine in camp you want to cool off sometimes and take some time away from the gym. But when you are excluded in quarantine, you don't do that, McKenzie's a mom. So I'll start with her too. So I assume you have the responsibilities outside of fighting. So how's life outside of fighting for you during this

quarantine? Yeah, I mean, just taking care of all the responsibilities, you know, at home, you know, get the house cleaned up, you know, make sure we have, you know, breakfast, lunch and dinner ready. Everything's all good. So it's good. It's actually like, at least for me, I like to do like that organizing thing, you know, I think it's more like, of course, there are guys that are organized. But girls like to do that stuff too, you know, decorating and everything. So I'm doing all that type of stuff. Anthony, what about you?

What are you doing to get your mind off of maybe you want to take a break? from concentrating about your glove of glover to share the main event, but must be hard to do during a pandemic sweeping the nation. Yeah, it's kind of tough. Well, I got three, you know, I got three daughters. Yeah. And my youngest is only two, so she's not in school anyways, but the older two are out of school. So we spend the majority of our free time driving my wife, absolutely crazy.

You know, like, you know how it is. Like you get little kids pent up in the house, so we're just trying to find ways. to let them burn off energy, whether it's going on walks and walking the dogs and, you know, the crazy crafting stuff that they like to do. So honestly, I just spend a lot of time with my family. You know, it's been kind of a blessing that I've been able to be home more during this training camp. So I just been spending a lot of time at home. Anthony, how do you explain it to your two older daughters?

I know Emmettina, you've got a daughter as well, but she's probably too young to really know how crazy this all is. Anthony, you got two older who probably understand more. What do you have what do you been saying to them? My oldest is starting to understand it a little more that, you know, there's a lot of people that are getting sick, and we kind of need to just everyone hang out at their own houses and hang with their own friends and their own family in small groups

so that everyone doesn't get sick. My middle is she's almost six, so she's really upset that she can't go to school. So like she can't quite understand why she can't go play with her friends. and like they had presentations and stuff that they were supposed to do. And so she's super disappointed. And she misses her friends of school. So she doesn't, she's like, well, why can't they just feel better and then we just go back to school? She doesn't quite get it.

But I think, like, it's kind of always on the TV too, you know? Like it doesn't matter what you're watching, it's always something on and talking about it. So they just ask a lot of questions trying to understand. I think she'd get along well with Dana White. I think, you know, I like that attitude of why can't people just get better and get back to business. I think Dana White feels the same way. Hey, why is everyone, you know, what's the big deal? Why can't we all just kind of find a way to get all the healthy people in?

Again, hopefully for you guys, you do get the fight. But, yeah, it looks like she's got that Dana White mentality. That's solid. That's a good place to do. So I was supposed to you this. A lot of high-level athletes have daughters in the UFC. Why are all of these high-level MMA fighters blessed with so many daughters? John Jones has a lot.

You said you had three of them yourself. So what is it like what is it with the MMA fighters jeans and having daughters? I don't know, man. You know, it's like this thing that goes around the gyms all the time. It's like this weird folklore that like if you're a wrestler or you're like a high-level jihitsu guy or girl or you're like a, you know, a fighter. Like everybody has daughters. Like there's not that many of us that have sons.

I don't understand it. Like if you kind of scour like a group of 100 wrestlers or 100 fighters that have kids, I bet like 90% of them are else. I don't understand it. Yeah, I don't know. From what I heard, I don't know if it's true. It could be, like, totally fake. But what I heard is that, like, a lot of fighters and just, like, wrestlers and

judithers, like, during their camps and stuff, they just release a lot of testosterone. And then, like, if they went conceiving and all those things, you know, then ends up having more chance of having a girl. But I don't know, it could be totally not true, but that's just what I heard from multiple people. But who knows? You know, just how hard all the guys train and everything. You know, I thought I heard that the guys are the ones that choose the,

like their jeans are ones that choose the sex if it's a girl or boy. But I don't know. I just think it's so crazy. Most of the fighters may end up having, like, girls. And then they're like, oh, shoot. now they have to take care of the boyfriends coming sure and so in 10 to 15 years we see a lot a new crop of female MMA and JGG2 practice

coming down the future Casey what's our next question we got for our two fighters a user called I wish I could train a TriStar TV series to pass the time in this unique situation we find ourselves in which television are you which television series are you watching For me, it's Billion, seasons one to four, the latest West, so McKenzie.

I don't know how much television you watch with a young daughter. But if you do watch television, what are you doing? What do you watch in the past of the time? Or we watch, like, one of her TV shows that's like Words Party. It's like a little, you know, dancing one. Or we watch Big Brother, you know. They have Big Brother, I think, all over the world, but we watch Big Brother Brazil, you know. So it's really right now, my husband, he's all excited to.

we're watching it. So that's what we watch. Anthony, same question. What are you doing? What are you watching if you are watching anything at all? Well, you know,

I'm in a house full of girls, so it's a lot of kids shows and, and, uh, chick flicks. So, uh, my wife and I watch Grace Anatomy.

Oh. And, uh, I think we're just now caught up on the last season of, uh, how to get away with murder, which is also another chick flick. I think that's it right now.

I think that's a Graze Anatomy and How to Get Away with Merck. Alex, what about yourself? You know, I don't... Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. No, you know, I don't watch a lot of TV. I'll just tell people, hey, while you're on, you know, while people are on quarantine, to watch the good place on Netflix.

You've never watched it before. All the seasons are on there, except the latest one. And it's kind of about accountability and people being nice to each other, which I think is what we need during this time. So it's from the guy who did like Brooklyn Nine-Nine and Parks and Iraq. I know people love those shows.

So I'd say watch the good place. I'm kind of re-watching it while I have time. But also, you know, just keeping up with the news, making up the news, keeping up with what's going on with our fighters, you know? So it's definitely definitely a lot to watch, a lot to keep up with. Really, news is probably the hottest show on right now. For sure. McKenzie and Anthony, actually, I'd have a question for you.

This just pops in my head if you talk about the U.S. Brazilian fight. I'll ask you, Ms. McKinsey, before you have to go. We saw a fight between Gilbert Burns and Damien Maya and Gilbert Burns

said it was going to be a passing of the guard so to speak and I know Alex was kind of talking about this off camera but it was a knockout

so what did you make of this at someone with your background a high school a multiple time championships and everyone respects Damien Maia but was it really

a passing of the guard which is Gilbert Burns and Damien Maia sense if it didn't end in a submission that that that Durian would submit that Doreen would submit Damien?

Is that me? Yes. He said that if he planned, Gilbert Burns said he wanted to submit Damien Maya and then he would become the, he would become the one that people would point to that has happened to the best jujitsu in the UFC. But it ended in a knockout, not a submission.

So what did you make for this? Yeah, I mean, like I was so excited to see this fight, you know, I've known them since I'm a little girl. You know, I grew up with them and just watching them, they're good friends of mine. So I was really excited to see kind of just these top athletes, Jiu-Jitsu fighters fighting each other with punches and kicks and everything. I always knew that Duriuhi has like strong hands and I've seen him knock out people before.

But I mean like in my opinion and I think in the very beginning of the fight you know Damien Ma was already on his back you know and of course he was able to get out of everything but it's a very different style of Jiu-jitsu. So I mean I think if he didn't get the knockout, I think Damien would do like a good show on the ground, you know, but Doreno is so good. I don't think it would be easy for Demy. I don't think there would be a submission. I think that he would be able to get out, but I think he would find some hard situations

on the ground. But I think like Duneon just the hands, you know, his hands are so strong and just hit the right spot. So that's why it's good, you know, to be like a jihitsu fighter, but have people respect your hands too, you know? Anthony, same question. What did you make of that performance? And can we really call this a passing of the guard if it didn't end in the submission? No, you know, I don't know if it's a passing of the guard per se where Gilbert's going to take the position as the best jujitsu fighter in the UFC.

He very well, maybe, but I don't think in this situation that really comes into play. You know, obviously, I'm, you know, I'm friends with Gilbert Burns. He was on my team, Quintet. there's a reason he was on my team for the quintet. He's good. He's really good. And I think that their jiu-jitsu styles are very, very different. I think that, you know, if this was a sport jujitsu match, I think Damien Maia probably wins that a match.

But I'm kind of with McKenzie. I don't think that there is going to be a submission. You know, I think positionally, Damien Maia is just better at getting to some of those dominant positions and holding them. So, you know, in the end, I think Damien Blanche, score more points if that's the kind of match that they were having. But Gilbert's just more well-rounded.

You know, I think the passing, you know, I think the passing of, like, say Ben Ashken was the younger guy and he was able to ground out Amy and Maya in their fight, I think that would be more of a passing of the guard situation because their skill sets are very similar on their, but Gilbert is so well-rounded, so powerful, explosive, and positionally in MMA Jiu-Jitsu, which is very different than those are jihad. I think he does have some better positions. But honestly, I was just kind of sad to see Damien kind of get put down like that. I'm such a big gaming.

My opinion is so long. And I'm obviously, obviously I'm happy for my friend, you know, because that's a huge opportunity that Gilbert had in a huge win. He was able to get the bonus. You know, I think that rocketed him into the, like, close to the top five in the division. I mean, I'm really happy for him at the same time. You know, it's sad to see one of the, one of the, one of the, trailblazers of our sport, you know, and I come from a jujitzy background, so it's tough to

watch someone that you look up to for so long to go down like that. But at the same time, Gilbert's more in my age range and kind of my generation. So, you know, we've got to get ours, too. So as far as passing in regards, I don't think so, but definitely a huge opportunity and in cash in moment for Gilbert. I want to say, Anthony, you didn't fare too badly at Quintet. This was in December, right? You did all right. I think you bowed to a couple of draws, which is very respectable. I don't know McKenzie if you got to see Anthony, but his, I believe his matches are on fight pass.

So, McKenzie, if you haven't seen him, maybe you can watch Anthony. Maybe give him some pointers. We can't offer any advice, but I'm saying I think McKenzie obviously is so experienced. And I think, you know, that'd be very cool if maybe help Anthony out, you know, he's Oh, I can take all the, I'll take all the help I can get. I thought the quintet thing was really cool. It would have been really cool if McKenzie would have been able to do it, too, because I would have had her on my game.

Right. Of course. They're going to have another one? I think so. I think so. I think they're planning on doing it a couple times a year. But it was so much fun, and it was really, it was fun for me to be able to show the world and, like, the rest of the fighters that I'm not just the knockout guy.

Like, I've always been pegged as the, well, I've always been pegged as the striker. But I've never called myself a striker. I've been a jiu-jitsu. a jujitsu fighter my entire career. It just happened to be I got heavy hands and that's how a lot of my fights have gone. But it was a lot of fun

and I'm really looking forward to like the media covering it a little bit more and just keep growing that platform because it was really fun. Did you watch the quintet this past one? Did you like the team format like Team UFC versus Team Strike Force versus Team Pride and everything?

I didn't get to see it. I didn't get to see it, but I heard about it. I thought that was a cool idea. I thought it was really cool. But I didn't get to watch it. So I don't know how it went, really, how the fights were and everything. Well, before I let you go, I know you were short on time. Is there anything else you want to tell the live audience or our listeners before you sign off? I just thank you guys for having me. It's always fun to talk and everything. I'm glad that we were able to, you know, get this in since everyone's on quarantine, everyone stay safe, keep your exercises going, you know.

Thank you everyone for the support. Hopefully this fight will happen. You have seen Lincoln or you have seen anywhere. Yeah. It can be any place, but we'll do it, you know. So just praying for everyone and just all the best. Thank you guys. Well, thank you so much, McKinnell have you on.

Hopefully your fight still happens, but again, hopefully in the UFC. But thank you so much for joining us, McKenzie. Thank you. Thank you, guys. See you soon, McKenzie. Bye, see you. Thanks, McKinney. Yeah, for anyone joining us, that was,

we just had McKenzie Dernon, who's fighting the 25th, Anthony Smith, also hopefully fighting in the main events on April 25th. I have a question about Quintet. Me and my cameraman were talking about this. When we were reading the rules, it said there were no leg locks,

but I believe Sugar Sean was submitted with a leglock. Was any by Hector Lombard? Yeah, there was no heel hooks. There was no heel hooks. So it wasn't just blanketed leg locks. There was no heel hooks. There was no no twisters.

And there was a handful of other submissions that weren't allowed. But you could, straight ankle locks were okay. I believe toeholds were okay. But I think it was really just based on no heel hooks. Was the unfortunate, obviously it was unfortunate about what happened with Cub Swanson, but watching that, would it deter you from competing in more stuff like that considering like he's out for now a long time

like there were rumors and I guess he was in a fight I can't remember there was supposedly a fight lined up that people that he said that he can no longer compete in but with after witnessing that does it deter you maybe moving forward from competing in more quintet stuff no no not at all you know

these are I mean these are situations of positions that we end up in every day anyways in the gym I didn't I didn't compete any harder in the quintet event event that I do, excuse me, that I do every day in the gym with my jiu-jitsu team and my training partners anyways. I think that there is a couple things that we could do as far as the rules

for Quintet, because the only reason he kind of got in that weird leg entanglement, he was, I believe there was a leg reap, which is typically a, which he would go to. Yeah, that's going to attack. Like, if not in the IBJJF rules, like you can't reap the knee at all at all like it's if your foot passes the hip at all uh in those positions it's an immediate dq um so the no gee and submission only platforms they don't you know most of them do have heel hooks so they didn't they took out the heel hook submission but they didn't take out like the the leg entanglement position that you would use to get to a heel hook so i think if you took if if you took if you took out the leg reaping and the ability for people to reap the knee uh i i think that that would

save a lot of, a lot of injuries and, and, and, and, and, and positional stuff. So I think if we tweaked it a little bit, we could make it a little bit safer for the fighter so that we're not ending up in these, these real funky positions. It could get us hurt leading up to a fight. Now, for those of us who have never rolled, or our listeners who haven't rolled at all, what is exactly reaping? And why, why is that illegal in, in some tournaments? So a leg reap would be, if I was on my back and I brought my legs around,

the outside of someone's knee forcing their knees inside but locking their hip it puts your leg in a position where the bottom half of your leg can can be twisted and torqued on but you can't you can't like you can't use the top half of your leg of your legion to take the pressure off of the ligaments and the joints so you know when you do that you want to lock down when you're doing a lake submission you want to lock down the high part of their body so that you can turn and twist the bottom part of their leg without the top part moving. So that's essentially how you tear the ligament or break the knee to get someone to tap, right? So you have to be able to isolate the top part of their leg so that you can manipulate the bottom.

And that's what the leg reek does. It isolates the top so that you can manipulate the bottom. So then you end up in these weird scrambles and these weird positions when people are trying to get out when they have part of their leg is isolated. and the rest of it is moving. I mean, I think we all know what happens when you isolate the top and there's a, you know, there's a, you know, like a pivot point in the middle, you're manipulating the bottom. That sounds nasty.

That sounds so nasty. Everything you described, it was just horrible. Our own, go ahead, Anthony. Well, they're really, really technical, like real dynamic position. So, you know, not that I'm not going to put it on. cub and say like oh this happened because this was his fault i mean it's it's an accident no one wants anyone to get hurt no one's trying to hurt anybody but he didn't exactly defend it a way in a way that was going to keep him from being injured uh and it's like when you start attacking the legs and people

start pulling out and they just want to turn and twist and roll and run that's one of your most in danger of being injured uh those look in tangoom in positions you kind of just have to sit and chill and make sure that your feet are in the right position, that your hands are fighting the wrist, that your knees are turned the right way, that, I mean, there's a lot of things that go into those leg entangements and wrestlers and guys that scramble and end up in those positions, those are the guys that typically get hurt. Like, you've got to kind of sit through and you've got to work your way through those positions.

This is good advice. I hope people are listening to this stuff because I'm sure there's a lot of people right now who are looking for hobbies, you know, not that they're kind of locked in and, like, just going on YouTube and probably finding, oh, jiu-jitsu techniques. I've always wanted to try Jiu-Jitsu. I'm going to find out on YouTube. And then like probably doing kind of wild stuff like this. And like you said, maybe getting into positions that they don't understand and maybe

panicking and possibly, you know, exacerbating the situation and injuring themselves. So yeah, to anyone watching, please preach caution. You know, it's cool. I think that people should try this. I'm sure, Anthony, I'm sure you did a lot of your early training just kind of wet. I don't know if you're one of the early garage guys, you know, with your, with your place just sparring the garage and rolling the garage, stuff like that. But for anyone out there want to try that stuff, listen to pros like Anthony and

obviously other instructors out there. And just be careful. Everyone just be careful. Well said Alex. But Casey, do we have any other questions from our fans that have come in or we have any? What else we got? From longtime commenter Trombo. Any discoveries on FightPass?

I've been trolling the depths of Fight Pass from lockdown in Rome. Wow. Pride tournaments, the Josealdo, Pancreys fight, Unreal, the rise and fall of Big Rig. I'm not sure. There's more impressive run at Welts away. Found a lot of good stuff that I'd forget. What are you guys finding content for your work with no fight? So, Anthony, I'll ask you this.

Obviously, you watch FightPass. You are a commentator. You watch a lot of tape, I would imagine. Any other fights that are forgotten fights, I should say. Everyone knows about Lawler McDonald. Everyone knows about Hendrix, GSP. They just saw the Wiley or Zhang Wiley, Yuanian J-Chic fight, the Izzy Gasland fight. But any other forgotten fights out there that you think people should go watch on Fight

they have so much time on their hands. Yeah, you know, actually the other day, I found myself watching the Kevin Raynerman versus Crow Cop fight. And I completely forgot. I completely forgot that that Ranelman knocked out Crocop and it was all

off of a, like a series that started with Reynolds' dropping Crowcop. And I think at that time, no one thought that there was a chance in hell that Randam was ever going to be able to compete with Crow Cop on a speed. and then, you know, of course, he drops him, ends up finishing him and knocking him out on the ground. But, yeah, I caught myself watching that the other day and I was like, oh, my God, I forgot about this, you know?

Like, you know, RIP, Kevin Randleman for sure. Yeah. Yeah, like, just old pride fights. I love the pride structure. I loved how the judging worked. I loved the 10-minute first round. I love the, you know, the warnings for inactivity. And it sounds kind of barbaric, but I wouldn't mind the whole no elbow.

but soccer kicks and stomps and and like the knees to the head on the ground like changed the game completely um so i i i just like i just really liked pride you know and and that's kind of where my love for kind of the sport began was with rampage uh and that's that was that was always been my favorite fighter you know like that's i don't get like real starstruck or or gitty over meeting people but i would probably lose my shit if i met rampage anthony what do you think there is an aversion to soccer kicks and knees to the head of a grounded opponent when it comes to the unified rules like that are used in North America. What is the, what's the taboo around those specific techniques? I don't know. I think it's 100% aesthetics. I think it just

looks bad. But I think that the fights would be a lot more exciting. And, you know, to a lot of people, it doesn't make sense why there weren't elbows allowed in pride, but they could soccer kick and stomp. Typically those are like elbows for the most part. Obviously there's your outliers and there's, you know, times when this isn't going to be true. But elbows aren't fight finishing techniques for the most part. Usually it's they just cut and it creates a lot of blood.

And the aesthetics of that in pride and for the people in pride, or at least the spectators and the fans, they didn't want a lot of blood. It wasn't, they weren't really into that. So that's why they pulled the elbows out. Now the knees to the ground of the opponent and the, and the soccer kicks and the kickers. to the head of grounded opponents are typically fight ending series.

So, I mean, if you catch a soccer kick or a big knee to a grounded opponent, it's probably just going to be one or two of those, and that's it, and the ref is going to step in. But it changes the entire dynamic of the fight. You know, you're not going to see so many wrestlers that are okay with just grabbing on a leg and hanging on to it for a while. I mean, how often do you see a guy, you've got his hands clasp around one leg, and he's stretched out on his belly, and he's just holding on.

There's no more of that if you start having knees to the head of a grounded opponent. there's a lot of jujitsu guys that would have a you know like back in the day when they used to fight in geese you get guys that would get into someone's guard and they would grab the the the sleeves and the guy would be in his guard uh on his knees and then you could just pull your legs up and then just start kicking him in the face i mean that's it it it just changes the entire dynamic but it's hard to put soccer kicks head stomps and knees to the head of a grounded opponent on the espion right right Yes, true. Yes. So I'll ask you this, Anthony. Is there any fights of yours from back in the day on Fight Pass that we can find outside of UFC? Oh, gosh. Yeah, yeah, there's some really old fights of mine on Fight Pass.

Like, there's some fights back in the victory days. I mean, I wouldn't typically talk about it. But some of those performances are embarrassing, man. They're awful. I think there's one of my amateur fights on there from, like, 2006. Really? Really? Yeah. Yeah, it was embarrassing.

You said it's embarrassing, were there any that you're actually proud of that fans can go watch? From back, from like the older ones? Yeah. No. No. No. No, I hate watching myself, I even though. Oh.

Interesting. Even your first round knockouts that you've had recently, you don't get a bit of a charge out of watching, rewatching those? No, I just watch them and I just feel like I suck. I don't know what the deal is like I just point I just can point out every mistake and I can tell you exactly what I was thinking in each one of those situations. Why I did that, why I didn't do that. And it's just fresh because when I'm in there, it feels like I'm doing a lot. When I watch it from the outside, it just seems like I'm not doing much. And it drives me crazy. I just, I just tear myself apart watching myself like. Oh, well, that there goes our idea to maybe

maybe sit down with Anthony and run through some of his highlights because apparently he doesn't think he has any because I think that'd be a great program to go to your last like five, six UFC fights and kind of like break it down. But again, you've had some super impressive highlights, but I guess I know you're the one in there. And I know you, you fighters, you hold yourselves to such a high standard. So I can understand like even a 30 second knockout, you might be like, well, I could have gotten in 20. I could have gotten in 15 if I had done this. So, but yeah, but people would definitely love to hear your thoughts and your performances for sure. yeah i would totally do that you know actually me and a me and a couple uh a couple that we hang out with me and my wife

they hadn't seen the for whatever reason they hadn't rewatch the the vulcan fight and it was so terrible to watch like oh my god what the hell are you doing like get your shit together man like it was the most frustrating thing in the world it was like i don't know man it's tough to watch I don't know why. You won. Have you ever impressed yourself? Have I ever? Have you?

Yeah. Have you ever watched something? You're like, wow. Like, I look pretty good right now. Um, the one fight that I felt like, all right, you didn't completely embarrass yourself was when I fought Shokhan. Yeah. But also, I know what I was thinking in some of those situations. So, like, I mean, fighters are so self-deprecating, you know, like, even,

the the jab cross that I hit Shogun with, that started off the whole series of finishing him, it was, there was nothing, like when I watch it, it was a, it was like, it was an anger reaction. It wasn't, I didn't have anything in my head that was like, oh, okay, I'm going to hit this one, two, I'm going to draw back. He threw like a weird, like, low hook to my body, and it just caught my floating rib. and it just hurt really goddamn bad, you know, like it just, just the weird nerve pain it sent. So it was an anger reaction. Like, it made me mad.

And so I just pulled back, he hit me. And my reaction was just to hit him back as hard as I could because I was angry about it. So it wasn't like I slipped a punch. I slipped out of the way and hit him with the counter. It just he hit me and it pissed me off. You know, like, that's really what it was. And so, like, not, like, knowing that watching it, everyone's like, makes it seem like, oh, he just pulled out of range,

barely clotted the body shot, and then fired off, talk about, whoa, from there? We just had a surge. Oh, sorry. I didn't even that blip. Everything is, we're back. All right. So I was listening to Dominic Cruz,

and I'm trying to remember the fight it was. Oh, it was Darantil versus Kelvin Gasolm. And Darren Till kept clenching every time Gasolm would come forward, and I don't think that that's what anyone expected. I think they expected Till to stay on the outside and Gasolam to try to get the fight to the ground. But Till was the one that was engaging the grappling exchanges and the clinch situations.

And I heard Dominic Cruz say something like, oh, I think Darren Till just wants to test Gasol to see how strong he is. That's really smart. And I was thinking, like, do people actually do that? Because I've never, ever been in a situation where I'm like, I'm like, I just want to see how strong this guy is. Or I want to clinch him just to see if he ragdalls me. Like, I don't know for sure, but I've never met any guy, any fighter in my life that, like, their brain thinks like that.

So even listening to Dan Hardy or Paul Fielder call my fight with Shogun, where Anthony's checking his distance, he's checking his range, he's seeing how fat. Like, no, I'm not. I promise you, I'm not. I'm just trying to get in and get out without getting K-Oed. That's it. that's as basic as it gets. I mean, my coaches walk me through the positions and the situations, but like, maybe there is guys that do that,

but I've never met one. So I just, like, there's no, like, there's no, like, secret sauce of things that we're doing. Like, if I'm fainting, I just want to see where your first reaction is. There's no, like, long, drawn-out plan that I have in my head. And maybe that's me. Again, that might just be me. But if, like, if I'm fainting,

I just want to see what hand is going to go first. like it's that basic. Like if I faint and I see your right hand twitch, then I know chances are, if I go, that's the hand that's coming my way. And it's really that basic. There's no checking distance.

There's no check in range. I'm not going to like draw a jab out of you to see if it hits me. Like I'm going to try to draw the jab out so I can counter it, but it's that basic. That's as far as it goes for me. So anyway, that was a long tangent on some weird stuff. No,

that was super fascinating to listen to. Have you spoken to any of the commentators and be like, you were totally wrong on that one. Like you're, you obviously are an analyst yourself, but like if you're on the desk with Dan Hart, your Diamond & Cruiser, like you were,

like you hear them saying something. Like, you were wrong on my fight, so I don't know what you're talking about in this fight. No, I never have. I've never worked, uh, worked the cage side stuff,

uh, for the UFC before. So I honestly, I don't know. Like the media side, like you guys get it. The media side of stuff, like it's 80% real and 20% BS.

So sometimes if there's nothing happening, and you got Darren Till clenching every five seconds. Like, you got to kind of fill it with stuff, right? So, and maybe that's where Dominic was like, well, maybe this is what he's doing. But I don't think he is, you know, like, but no one else knows that. You know, like, you got to remember that when we're on this media side, that we're not speaking to the, we're not speaking to the educated, we're not speaking to the educated fans. We're speaking to the casual fan that needs to educated on the positions that they're walking themselves through, right? So when I'm on the desk, I'm not talking to.

the hardcores that are hanging out on the underground. Those guys know what's going on, and they're way ahead of me 90% of the time. So I'm speaking to the people at home that are just tuning in. They may not quite understand the logistics and how the politics work and how the matchups go. So I think sometimes I'm more critical of the commentators because I have a different mindset and I look at it differently, but I have to also remember that they're not speaking to me. They're speaking to the average UFC fan that maybe,

maybe just clicking through and happen to catch us on ESPN. Casey, do you have any other questions for Mr. Anthony Smith? I know we've reached past the halfway mark, but we've had a good question so far. Here's a good one. Not related to your fight, but I'd love to get your thoughts on it. If Israel-A-Sahun, it goes on to beat Paulo Costa, Jared Kannonair, and Darren Till. Does that make an argument for him being the middleweight goat? Anderson-Silva would have more title defenses,

but Izzy would have title-fight wins over a much better competition at Gassalim Whitaker, Romero, Costa, Kananer, and Till. So, if Israel-A-San, does face Paulo-Ocasta next, like everyone believes, and beats him, and it goes on to beat Jared Kananair and Dan Till, this is

assuming they don't fight each other and knock off each other in the next fight, I would imagine. Is there an argument that Israel-A-Sania has passed Anderson-Silva as the greatest middleweight of all time? And by the way, Anthony, your former division, so I don't know if you ever had dreams of fighting Anderson Silva someday, but I imagine that would

give you a different perspective on this question. It depends on what your, it depends on what you're, it depends on what you're, what's the word I'm looking for here. Like what your requirements are to be the greatest of all the time. Like you can't look at at wins that Anderson Silva had however many years ago and then compare those wins to the ones that Israel has now. Izzy has a, especially if he goes on that run, you know, that that that question talks about, like,

Canineer, Till, Costa, like, that's an incredible run. It definitely puts him in the conversation. But I don't think you compare those guys to the guys at Anderson Silva beat because at the time, those were the best guys. You know, like, Damien Maya is still ranked in the top 10, and one of those wins was over Damien when he was a killer, you know? And Anderson moved up to 205 and beat four as great. and beat James Irvin and, you know, he beat Travis Luter on the ground, which I don't think

anybody expected at the time. No. Like, Travis Luter is a monster on the ground. And he definitely was back then. He'd beat Rich Franklin twice. Like, I just, I don't think you can use the wins per se to lift one of those guys over the other. What I go back to is that, you know, a dated aging 40-something-year-old Anderson-Sil.

was in a very, very close with Israel-Avostanian not that long ago. So, you know, you rewind in that seven or eight years and what does that fight look like when they're both in their primes? I don't know. But I think what Anderson did for the sport and how he elevated it and just brought everybody in. And, I mean, I was talking about this a couple weeks ago, actually. Like, an Anderson-Silva fight back in the day was like a spectacle. It was.

Like when the lights dropped and there was the yellow, like, accessory lights, and then you heard DMX come on, like, holy shit, man, that was wild. You know, like, it didn't matter if you were in the arena or you were at home. Like, you could feel how serious an Anderson Silva fight was. Like, it was, it was, it, in Anderson Silva fight just hit differently. It was different, you know, it didn't feel like a GSP fight. It didn't feel, you know, even like a John Jones fight. Like any of the grades you can think of, like Anderson Silva fights just felt different right before. And as he was walking out, it was just you never knew what was going to happen.

Sometimes, you know, honestly, like the Talas ladies fight, like it could suck. But if Anderson Silva showed up, it was going to be bananas. And, you know, I'm always going to put Anderson Silva as the middleweight, as the middleweight goat. but Israel is definitely chipping away at that quickly. Anthony, what do you think about Addisonia's dancing, though? It's like, he's had some pretty, I mean, you mentioned how important it is to make a moment, right? He had the dancing before the Whittaker fight. He had the flower petals before his recent title defense.

So I think some people would argue that he is, you know, as far one of the better stars today, as far as creating a moment. Does that side of stuff resonate with you? or did you kind of enjoy them more, I don't want to say understated, but I guess, you know, I don't remember Anderson using like props as much and stuff with his entrances. So what do you think of like, you know, all the extra kind of pomp and circumstance that Addison adds to his entrances? You know, I think that they're on very similar trajectories, to be honest with you. If you remember some of those Pride days, remember when he danced.

He did the Michael Jackson. He did the Michael Jackson thing. And so it's kind of cool to see the similarities in both of those guys, you know. And I think as Israel goes on, I think we're going to see some of those situations because Anderson Silva had his boring fights. You know, we're going to talk. Everyone's like real, real quick to just trash on Israel for the Romero fight. I never really hated on him. Like, it's not the most exciting fight in the world, but how else do you beat YOL Romero?

You know, like, that's, you got to do what you got to do to get a W. And I get that. You know, but Anderson had the performances with, with Talas Ladies that wasn't very great. you know he had Patrick Cote Patrick Cote he had Damien he had a couple bad performances

and still was able to get wins and I think that Israel is going to have one or two more of those that's just how it's going to go because of the styles of some of these guys but I do think that he's going to start a couple guys and he's going to get guys out of their quick fast and in a hurry like he already has several times

and then I think you're going to start feeling those weird moments before Israel walks out when he is dancing and I think as he gets older he's going to be more cerebral in some of his approaches and that's what changed in Anderson and as he got older and a little bit more mature the dancing stopped and the seriousness turned on and he became very like his aura almost became bigger than he was you know he was just like this serial killer just just rolled out starch people like Forrest Griffin and then walked out and didn't say much you

You know, he was, I definitely can see Israel going on that path. And I do like the dancing. I think it's part of his brand. It's part of why people like him. And he just is who he is. You know, like if you see an interview on, you know, if they put Israel on Ellen DeGeneres, you're going to get the same Israel that would go on Luke Thomas's show dropping the F word. You know, like that's just, and I like that about Izzy, man.

I like he just is who he is and he's a pretty goddamn good dancer. I'm a little bit jealous of that because I have zero moves. Well, I was going to say, I would like to see Anthony your next fight. Maybe, you know, especially if it happens in your hometown, you've got to put out a little bit of a show. A little Nebraska shuffle. I don't know if that's a thing, but, you know. You know, I just don't, I don't think I need to be embarrassing myself. That's for sure.

Now, I'll pose this question to you. This just popped into my head. The three people that people kind of call the go, I'll say four, usually like, like Fadour, John Jones, George St. Pierre, Anderson Silva. After Anderson's, I don't want to say he fell off because like age catches up to everyone. I'll be still, like you said, hanging in there for three rounds of Israel out of signers. So he's obviously not lost too much of a step. But it kind of came down between John and George.

George going up to middleway and capturing that belt against Michael Bisman kind of gave him a step up. And his John Jones' last few performances, maybe people are saying he's not as dominant as he was. maybe he's not the greatest of all time. What do you make of that argument that John has taken himself out of the running based on his last two, like his three performance, even against you, against Tiago Santos, against Dominic Gray's, who a lot of people thought Dominic Gray's one. In our YouTube comments, whenever we post John Jones stuff, it blows up with Santos 1,25, Reyes, 1, 2, 3.

So I'll ask you two-part questions. Has John taken himself out of the running for being the greatest, the last few performances? performances. And do you think Tiago Santos and Dominic Reyes, if they had read the scorecards for them, did they deserve those wins if they had gone their way on the judge's scorecards? You know,

I hate answering this question because I hate having to stick up for John Jones. I just, I hate having to do it, but I'll put my analyst hat on. And let's just look at the names and the numbers. Now, GSP has a

phenomenal, it has a phenomenal resume. I mean, you look at those guys, they're, it's the murderer's row. But if you look at John Jones's win column, it's one of the most incredible, impressive streak of wins of anybody that's ever even thought about doing this. He's working his way through a second generation of fighters and just now beating people his own age. Like, it's, it's frustrating, to be honest with you.

that he's so talented and has had some of the issues that he's had. I mean, he has Rampage, Chale Sunnan, Shogunhuah, Machita. I mean, it just goes on and on and on and on. And, like, I don't think a win over Tiago Santos, Dominic Reyes, and Anthony Smith should take you out of any running. I mean, that's three hammers. And I know I'm talking about myself, but that's three. three fights there's not one person

other than John Jones that could beat all three of those guys right there's not there's not one person that could do that other than him I just think I think that the hiccups and the mistakes that he's made and some of the bad media and some of the

dumb stuff that he's done makes it even that much more impressive I've been telling these young guys you know I'm at my at the gym right now and I've told these guys for the last five years that if you don't have your personal life together that you're never going to be successful

at a high level in this sport. And I've stuck to that. And John Jones makes me a liar every single time I say it because he doesn't. He doesn't have any of it together and he still finds a way to win. He's just that talented. You know, with the stuff

that's coming. Then GSP takes that crown for sure. But if we're talking strictly wins and losses and X's and O's, John Jones is We're going to have to put John Jones above GSP every time. The only person that even comes close to that is Demetrius Johnson.

And the problem with Demetrius Johnson is we can't use the strength of schedule. The strength of schedule is what usually puts John Jones above anybody else in the Go talk. And that's what I'm using right now to put him above GSP. Because technically, I think GSP and Demetrius Johnson are more well-rounded

more technical and just overall better fighters than John Jones. The competitor and the way that John Jones is able to implement his game plan is what puts him about those guys. But as far as like, we're just looking at straight techniques, punches, kicks, takedowns, jiu-jitsu, GSP and Demetri Johnson are much better fighters. So even though, like you said, there's been some unfair criticism of John's in-case performances. But, you know, that's what people are going to say when he goes five rounds with any, you know, he's the champ. He goes five rounds with anyone and it's not dominant. People are going to ask, okay, well, what's wrong with John Jones, as opposed to necessarily giving credit to yourself and his other opponents?

But did you see anything in your fight with him or, again, his fight with Dominic or his fight with Tiago that makes you think, man, in the next year, the next 18 months or so, he's vulnerable. And one of these guys coming up, whether it's, you know, Jan Blahovitz or someone else is, do you think he's going to get knocked off based on what you've seen in those last three fights? for sure for sure and listen john john is human he's always vulnerable I think that you know everyone keeps saying that like john jones has fallen off i don't think he is i don't think he is at all i don't think john has lost anything

i think some things have changed in john's approach i think some things have changed in in how other people are approaching him but like john's 33 years old it's not like he's he's some aging dinosaur that's falling off, I really don't. Are some of the lifestyle stuff

that John chooses to take part in probably tougher to do at 33 than they are at 23 and still competed at a high level? Possibly. Are the miles racking up on John Jones? I mean, how many five round title fights

has John Jones have? Yeah. I mean, how many, how many, how many training camps? has he gone through for five round title fights? I mean, miles and miles and, like the miles in the year of the vehicle make a difference. You know, like, you might be a Corvette, but if you're a 2015 Corvette with 400,000 miles on it, you know, like you're still, you still got a lot of miles on it.

Yep. So, but I also think that as John is getting older, he's making better decisions, but I think that those decisions are making his fights tougher, if that makes any sense. When I was preparing for John Jones, I was expecting, and there's a lot of other things that went into that fight with John Jones. And I've never been the type of person to make excuses, so I'm never going to talk about it. But I was preparing for the wild, crazy spinning stuff, the unpredictability, like the crazy John Jones. and that's not what I got. That's not what I got at all.

I got the John Jones that was very content shutting me down. And I mean, you can talk all the trash you want about my performance against John Jones, but he didn't do that much either. You know, it takes two to make an exciting fight and he wasn't willing to have one. And that's just how it is.

If I don't have an opening, like I did a lot of waiting and waited for an opportunity and it never came because he didn't give me one. And credit to him, that's what he's supposed to do. Yeah. But he didn't take a lot of it. a lot of chances in the Dominic Reyes fight. He didn't take a lot of chances in the Tiago Santos fight.

And I think people are just now starting to get used to this new style of John Jones. I think some of it's maturity. I think some of it is, I think he's cleaned his lifestyle up a little bit. And I don't think that he's as wild and crazy personally as it used to be. And I think that it shows in his fight style. I know this guy, and I'm not going to give you a name or anything, but this dude was bash you crazy when he fought. But he was dealing, you know, he's always dealt with addiction problems and had a crazy lifestyle,

partied super hard, and then this dude would just get in the cage and then just go off. And it was like the craziest, high-flying, most exciting fights you'll ever see in your whole life. Then he didn't get sober, it gets cleaned up, there's no more party and there's no more drugs, there's no more alcohol. And this dude can't want to fight to save his life because it doesn't, like, some of that they go kind of hand in hand you know like like he couldn't because he wasn't living the crazy lifestyle he once did and he wasn't crazy personally anymore he couldn't do it in the in the cage anymore like he used to and he just fell off he can't do it anymore you know and then you know

he'd have a couple relapses and then he'd fight and he'd be right back to his old self but when he's clean sober and live in the right way he couldn't do it he just couldn't it just didn't work So some of, and I'm not saying that that's what's going on with John Jones. I'm saying as you get older, your lifestyle slows down a little bit. You're a little bit less crazy as you used to be. I think that some of that translates into your fight style. Yeah, that sounds crazy like both the person you mentioned and what's going on with John, just that balance, you know, there's good balance, there's bad balance, and then trying to

have it all together and then, you know, having to perform on fight night, it sounds. I mean, you know, again, we can't even imagine what that dynamic is like, but that that glimpse you kind of just gave us his eye opening. I think you see it a lot in another guy's. Like, look at Donald Serroney. Like, if you can't look at that guy and say that his lifestyle matches his fight style, like, that's just, that's who he is. You know, and like my fight style, for the most part, has matched my lifestyle as I've gone.

You know, like, when I was a younger guy, I was nuts. You know, like, I did this. Like, that's why I never talked trash about John Jones. Like, it'd take a 15-7. I can Google search for you guys to figure out that I've been in a drinking and driving accident, that I've been to jail, that I've made all the mistakes. The difference is what you do after that and how do you move forward and how do you better your life? So like if you go back and you watch some of those fights, they're, they look awful, but they're just chaos

because that's what my life was at the time. And then as I got a little bit, I got older, I started having kids. You know, I had a hard time finding that balance. Like I kind of went on a, you know, I went on a losing streak there when I got cut from the U.S. and then I lost right after that and lost to Hadja Gracie. Like I was a new dad. I was like trying to figure out who I was as a person. I got this baby,

but I'm still like trying to punch people in the face for money. Like it's it's a weird balance that I couldn't figure out. And then I eventually figured it out, you know? And like my lifestyle now is still pretty crazy, but it's in a different way. You know, like instead of going out and having crazy parties and doing crazy, crazy rad stuff, you know, like I, I get my adrenaline rushes from hunting or riding razors and climbing, you know, going to rock crawling and just all sorts of crazy stuff.

So I still get that same adrenaline rush. I just do it different way. So like I think you're exactly right. Like finding that balance is tough. And unfortunately for guys like John Jones, he had to do it on the fly just like I did. The only difference between our stories is his was in front of the media in front of the entire world. He had to grow up in front of the entire world while doing it. You know, like we were, like when I started fighting, I was 17.

So I had to figure it out. Like I was going from a boy to a man all at the same time while like learning on the fly like this whole fight game. And like I didn't have a dad to guide me through and to teach me the way. And like the game was different here in the Midwest. And there wasn't a whole lot of like, oh, geez that were going to take you under their wing and teach you how you were supposed to how you were supposed to do it. You know? So like even for me, like I can't. imagine what John Jones had to deal with.

Like people were throwing a couple thousand dollars at me once or twice a month to go fight. I thought I was a rock star, you know, and I was like 19 years old, 20 years old. And like, you know, $3,000 to win a fight when you're 20 years old. Maybe you're like, okay, well, I'm famous now. And that's how you, you know, that's how you go about it. So like, I can imagine having millions of dollars thrown at you when you're like 22 years old and then having a camera in your face and on Fox and.

And like you're just, you're the dude. You're the man. And then you have to figure it out on the fly. Like, man, that's tough. That's super tough. I mean, I think we spoke to Israel, Assana before, during his fight, before Yol-Romer,

and he goes, I've made a lot of mistakes, too. The difference was, this was his quote, not mine. He goes, I wasn't 23, young, dumb, and full of cum in front of the camera. I'd made all my mistakes off the camera. And I learned watching from John Jones,

not what to do. when I become champion. But we are running, we are out of time. Anthony, thank you so much for joining us. And as always, the guest of the hour gets to plug, promo, whatever they want. We surprisingly didn't get many questions on your upcoming fight. I think a lot of the questions were regarding the coronavirus and everything, or just how you're dealing with life.

But as always, however much time you want, plug whatever you want, Anthony. You know, I just, I want to give a shout out to the fans. I know that this is a really tough time with the coronavirus, and I know that there's not a lot of sports that are going on right now. Like, there's nothing, you know, so, you know, I would probably say just do your best to support your fighters. You know, like, I think fighters are definitely having one of the tougher times when it is compared to other athletes. Obviously, there's people that are in everyday life that have a whole lot worse than most of us do. So check on your family, check on your friends.

and just stay tuned. I think we'll figure this out. I really do. And I hope that I get the opportunity to entertain you guys, even if it's going to bring a couple minutes of happiness to this crazy time. And I hope I get the opportunity to do that. Well, thank you so much, Anthony.

We'll have to have you on after your fight. Hopefully it happens. Hopefully you and McKenzie, who was on earlier, get to fight Lincoln, Nebraska. Especially you. I know we spoke after your fight in Chicago, and you said you were hoping for that quick turnaround fight the first time they went to Lincoln, Nebraska.

But you missed out on that. Hopefully you don't get to miss that on again due to a pandemic this time. If we're losing Habib, Tony, to a pandemic for a fifth time, you're losing to fight and Lincoln, Nebraska, to a pandemic. I don't know what we're going to do. No kidding. All right, well, you guys take care of yourself. And thanks for having me on.

Thanks, you see, guys. Thanks, yeah. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.