MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour - Episode 181

Episode Date: August 25, 2014

Featuring Rory MacDonald, Gray Maynard, Stephen Thompson, John Cholish, Mike Kogan, and Holly Holm. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

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On this Monday, May 20th, 2013, a very special happy Victoria Day to you. Most of you probably don't even know what Victoria Day is or where it's celebrated. Well, I'll give you a hint. It's celebrated in that great country right there. The Great White North. It's kind of like our version of Memorial Day. And it happens usually.

actually almost always a week before Memorial Day the Monday before Memorial Day a week before of course next Monday is Memorial Day we're here on Victoria Day we'll be here next Monday Memorial Day here in the United States we don't take breaks here at the MMA hour if you have a set and a studio as great as this why the heck would you take a break

no breaks here great to be back for another three plus hour edition of the mixed martial arts hour and so much to talk about on the heels of UFC on FX8. An unbelievable knockout by Vitor Belford, a spinning heel kick, K.O. of Luke Rockhold.

Who would have thought he was going to finish him like that in the first round? And of course, that has led to a whole bunch of talk about Vitor Belfort and TRT. We will get to that a little later on in the show. Your questions and his behavior at the post-fight press conference, all that stuff will be addressed,

including round two of the Rick's Picks invitation Round 1 was a smashing success, some major upsets. Some favorites moved on to round 2. Round 2, of course, will be UFC 160 this weekend. I am all in on this, my friends. I am into it. New York Rick had a Google document on Saturday night. People were following it.

It was fantastic. So far, so good here. Everyone got in their picks on time. It was great. I'm very happy with the way this is turning out. So looking forward to talking about what happened in round 1, and then we'll look ahead to round 2. this Saturday night, UFC 160,

Kane Velasquez versus Bigfoot Silva 2, the rematch no one wanted, but the real main event, my friends, Juno Santos versus Mark Hunt. That is going down in Las Vegas this weekend. Mark Hunt got his visa. Thank the heavenly MMA fathers for that. We'll talk about that a little later on in the show as well.

We're joining the back by Will, New York Rick, Buzzkill Brendan, and Mike, who is freshly shaven because our beloved Knicks faltered on Saturday night. It was agonizing, and I'm still not quite over it, but I'm feeling like at the end of this show, I will be back to full strength and over that morning period. So thank you very much to them for a great season of memories. Okay, let's talk about what's going on on this particular show at around 3.15 p.m. Eastern Time. We'll be joined by Warren McDonald, who, of course, faces Jake Allenberger at UFC on Fox, number 8, July 27th at the Key Arena in Seattle, Washington. Tickets just went on sale.

week. So if you're in that area, snatch them up while you can. Around 245, we'll take your questions, comments. We'll answer whatever you have on your mind as far as UFC on FX8 is concerned, UFC 160, anything else. Hit us up using the hashtag the MMA hour or leave a question or comment in the post below if you're watching this live.

And last few weeks, you've had some pretty damn good questions. So keep it up. I've liked them very much. 225. We'll talk to Mike Kogan, who is the manager to the likes of Nate Diaz, Roy Nelson, Derek Brunson, King Mo Lowell, a bunch of guys. Hoyst Gracie as well. He was, you know,

in the news cycle, in the limelight, after Nate Diaz's offensive tweet, at least that's the way the UFC deemed it. Late last week, he was fined, $20,000, suspended for 90 days, and Mike Hogan came to his defense. And there's a lot to talk to Mike about, and not only about Nate Diaz,

about some of his other clients. looking forward to have Mr. Cogan on the show at around 225. Holly Holie Holm will be stopping by at around 205. She is one of the greatest female boxers of all time, and now she is moving over to the world of mixed martial arts exclusively. She's fought in MMA three times before. She's 3-0. Trains at the Jackson Winklejohn camp in New Mexico,

and now she's focusing not only on women's MMA, but Ronda Rousey as well. So we'll talk to her about that. Stephen Wonderboy Thompson. He stops by at around 145. he returns to action for the first time in over a year this Saturday against Nishon Borell at UFC 160. High hopes for Mr. Wonderboy. He was 63 and 0 at one point in his amateur kickboxing, pro kickboxing, and then pro-MMA career, then lost to Matt Brown at UFC 145 last April.

He returns to action on Saturday, hoping to get back on the horse. John Cholish, he'll stop by at 125, announces retirement after his loss on Saturday night. But he actually announced it before he fought Glysson T-Bow in Brazil, We'll talk to him about why he's doing this and where he goes from here. And I should say at around 3.30 or so, that is when we will look ahead to round two of the Rick's Picks Invitational. But first, let us go to the phone lines and welcome in, a man who has a massive fight on Saturday night. He faces T.J. Grant for a chance to fight once again for the UFC Lightwhite Championship. He is, of course, Gray, the bully Maynard. Gray, how are you, my friend?

I'm good. just got done with your intro. That was a long one. That was. Were you bored by it? No, I was actually intrigued. It was really, really good. Well, you know, there's a lot to get to on the show, but we're starting with the best first. That's my attention. Oh, thank you. Will you be sticking around for the entire three hours? Entire three hours. Well, I appreciate that, Gray. It's good to have you back in our lives here. It's good to have you back on a fight week.

Yeah, I'm a fan. It's good to be back. on fire week. You have a very big fight against T.J. Grant, when you signed up for this fight, did you have any idea it would be for a shot at the title? I thought it could be. Yeah, because we asked for Anthony Pettis, and then he dropped down, and then they offered him, and, you know, I thought that he was a top guy, too.

So we took it, and we kind of knew it would be, one of those types of fights. We've had number one contender fights in the past that haven't panned out to be number one contender fights

in the end. You know, they say it before the fight, but then when push comes to shove, someone else steps in to fight for the belt. Do you believe, if you went on Saturday,

you will in fact fight to fight Benson Henderson next? Yeah, I believe that, but again, anything can happen. You know, it's MMA. So, you know, I'm prepared for that too, but yeah, I believe it.

Did you hear some of the chatter, you know, after the Gilbert Melendez-Benzhen-Henderson fight, it was so close. Some even thought Gilbert won. Josh Thompson looked really good on that card. Did you hear some of the chatter from people saying, you know what? I don't really want to see the winner of this fight, fight Benson. I'd rather see Gilbert or maybe Josh Thompson or someone else. I don't quite think that Gray or T.J. deserve it. Did you hear that?

And what did you make of it, if so? I mean, you know, everybody, there's a lot of people out there. So there's a lot of people that like Josh, Gilbert, me, and they're just, that's what they say. It didn't bother you. I don't know what to say to that. Just, I mean, I just do what the boss tells me to. And, you know, I believe I've been. the top guy. I believe I beat

the champ, but it was a draw. And then I slipped up a little bit. And then just kind of get back to that belt. You've only won once. You only fought once since you're lost to Frankie Edgar at UFC 136. Did you think you'd be back in this position so quickly? Usually you have to win three, four, five fights to get back to a title shot? there's no clear guy though

right um thank anthony he was and then um and then uh like i called him out i asked to to have him and uh and then he

dropped down and um but basically after that who else who else is a clear a clear guy did you think that was a weird choice for him to drop down

when it looked like he was so close to getting a title shot and fighting a guy he already beat in Benson Henderson? Um, I think that it was before the Gilbert and Ben about. So he was probably just trying to be sure that he had a title out. Right. Because, you know, because I asked for him. You know, I made it, I made it clear. And I don't think he wanted to do that, wanted to go for a belt, which is,

smart choice, you know, of course. You know, and I don't know. You're actually partly to blame for all this, right? Because when you and Frankie fought to a draw, he was supposed to fight the winner and he had to wait and then fought Guida, you kind of messed up his whole career. I got broad shoulders. I'll take the weight, you know.

I'm off. I'll take the blame. I just read an article that my colleague, Dave Doyle, did about you for Yahoo Sports. He spoke to you about this fight. And you talked about how down you were after the UFC 136 fight. But, you know, some might forget that you actually fought Clay Guida during that time.

Were you still not over the Frankie Edgar loss when you fought Guida in Atlantic City last June? Yeah, I was still all over the place. You know, I was up here and, like, going all over the place. I was at, say, A.K.A. a little bit. I was at boxing gym. And I was up in Oakland a little bit. It was all over the place. And just trying to get back in the groove. And then it was after the Claybout is when talked to Hobb. I talked to Josh and stuff. And they're like, man, be here every day.

and that's when I kind of got back into it and been there every day. So now you go to AK every day. You don't split your time in any other place? Nope, not really. And you notice a difference? Yeah, yeah. It's a great gym to gel at all.

You know, it's, it's, you know, the MMA gym. and, you know, it's been a great, great jam, and, you know, I'm pumped about the fight. So do you think that's why your performance against Clay wasn't one of your best? Do you think because you weren't over it, because you were splitting time, do you think that's why we didn't see the best Gray Maynard out there?

Do you think that was your best? No, definitely not. My past, of course. but it was just, you know, it's hard to describe that that bout. You know, I mean, I don't know because I couldn't fight, you know. That was a hardest, the guy just wouldn't want to do anything. And, you know, so, I mean, I don't know if I was good or not good, you know, it was just a hard bout to compete just because, I mean, you know, I had to chase him the whole time.

Do you honestly? No, that's not my best, you know, but it was a weird fight. Do you honestly believe, Gray, that you are better now as a member of A.K.K.A. than when you left Extreme Kouture, do you feel like you reached a point at Extreme Kouture where you couldn't improve anymore for whatever reason you just weren't improving, and now you are a much better fighter? Yes. Why? For sure. Why?

Yeah. Because I just have the complete game now. They have it all there, you know, and it's like you take Kane. You know, he has it all and he does it all. So, you know, that's kind of their, what they do is gel it all and produce the M. guys. Not a guy who has a whole here, but he's good at this

like aspect. It's the whole package. Why do you think so many top guys have left Extreme Couture? Um, now you're putting me on the spot, huh? Well, I'm just curious. You were

one of the faces of that team and since then, a lot of other guys have left. Yeah, no, I mean, um, again, I think Eminem, you know, it changes every day and you got to keep up.

And I think streamcator was just having problems keeping that going, you know. And it wasn't a clear coach, like, at the time. And, you know, but, you know, it was a great gym. It was an awesome gym. core group that was there every day. And, you know, it was a great gym, but you got to change. It's your job. You know, you've got to evolve.

And that's all I'm trying to do is evolve. What did you think when you saw your AK teammate Luke Rockhold lose in the way he did to Vitor Belford on Saturday? I mean, it was rough, of course. but I mean, I didn't, I had no idea he could even do a kick like that. Right. So, yeah, it was rough, man. But, you know, he'll be back.

He's a champ, you know, and, you know, he just got caught. Kind of hard to tell just because that was, yeah, he got caught. You know, it's a cliche. but that's what happens. You know, he's a cardio king, and he was trying to have it to the later part, but, you know, he didn't. You know, he got caught,

and Belfort did what he does, and, you know, that's a MMA game. That's a fight game. In a way, there are a lot of similarities between you and Luke. had his first loss very early in his career, but no one really remembers that this was a major loss for him on a very big stage,

a knockout. You've experienced that before. What would you tell him about rebounding and getting back on the horse and not dwelling on this? Yeah, I mean, exactly what you said. Get back on the horse. Don't dwell on it.

But it takes a while, right? Keeping the gym. It takes a while, but you know, he has a good team. he has a good group got us to tell him. I was kind of in that that

period where I left the gym about a month before that bout. So you know, kind of after that I didn't have a place to go. So I was just, I was in

purgatory a little bit. But now you feel like you found a home. And by the way, when you watched that, fight, do you feel like there should be an asterisk? I mean, there's been a lot of negative talk. I'm sure you've seen it about Vitor and his, his, his, his, his, his, his TRT. Do you think it's unfair that he's, he's beating a young guy like Luke on that stuff? Luke, um, you got to, you got to give it to him, man. He went down there to go up against him, you know, and, uh, that takes, that takes balls. Yeah. You know, and, um, and, um,

You know, and he did it. And so I don't know anything about all that stuff. It's just, you know, whatever. But, you know, I know he's got balls for going down there to go up against him like that. You were supposed to fight Joe Lozahn a few months back and pulled out due to a knee injury. What exactly happened? I had to get a scope, but I know. knee, there's just a lot of stuff in there. But I actually pulled my hamstring for the Clay

Glead about and, I thought it would heal up. So I kept going on it. And then by the time Camp came around for Joe, my knee and my hamstring were pretty bad. So the camp was just kind of turning out to be pretty hard, you know. other than the scope did you need surgery other than the scope no uh huh i got PRP done

oh PRP what i've heard about that i think demetrius johnson had that too what does that stand for again is something with your blood right platelet rich plasma and what exactly is that for those that don't know um they pull out your blood and then they spin it down to the white blood

It's just, I think, I mean, I don't know, but then they take that and then check that into the injury. Wow. And it's supposed to heal it a little bit quicker. And it worked for you? Yeah. Yeah, it helped. It definitely helped. It just takes a long time to heal the hamstring does.

Yeah, and you feel like you're 100% now? One hondo. Nice. You know, you look at who T.J. Grant has fought in this. winning streak, Shane Roller, Carlo Prater, Dunham, Matt Wyman. Do you think, obviously it's impressive to go for an own in a stretch

at 155, but are those guys on your level? Has he fought anyone that you consider to be on your level? Fought Johnny Hendricks. Right. But that was a while ago. And he lost him. Yeah, he's going for the belt. Yeah, and that was at 170.

Right. Yeah. But I mean during this stretch at 155. No, Oh, yeah. No. You know. Do you think so? No. I do not.

So that's why I'm wondering. Are you impressed with what he's done? I mean, I'm impressed to the point to where it gets me up every day to train hard as hell to beat him. That's all I mean. Do you fear anything that he brings to the table? Is there anything that you really are worried about? I don't fear anything anybody brings to the table, but there's a couple things that I'm aware of. Like what?

I can't stay when you interviewers try to put that fear word into us. You know what I meant, though, right? Sneaky. Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm just with you. But, I mean, come on, dude. I get in there to fight people. I don't fear them. No, you're right.

You're right. Anything he does. Bad choice of words. I'm just giving you a head-up just in case you're like Nate Diaz is on the phone and you're talking to him, trying to interview him. Don't throw that word in there. You might get slapped or something. I know.

I've been threatened before. The F word, okay, that's a bad F-word. I've learned this week that there are many bad F-words. But I didn't mean fear. I meant like, is there anything that you're really worried about? Or do you feel like you're better than him? I'm aware of a couple things. Okay.

Anything in particular? Aware of a couple things. He's good on the ground. I mean, I don't want to go into great detail about it. You know, he's a tough kid. Doesn't have a lot of huge holes, but there's a couple of small technical holes that we're trying to exploit, and, you know, that's that. Let's end on this, Gray, and we appreciate the time very much. I know you're making your way down to AKA right now, right?

Yes. I'm about to leave in about two minutes. Great. That's all we have left. Right after we've done with this interview. Okay. I won't keep you much longer. Have you been impressed with Benson Henderson?

I don't want you to look ahead. I don't want you to look past T.J. Grant. But considering that you were knocking at that door, you were there, you were so close to getting the belt and being the champion, as of late, it feels like there's a tie turning against Benson because he keeps winning these fights so closely. And there are some people who think that he didn't even deserve to win some of them because of the way the fights were scored, etc.

You sit there and you watch him. Do you feel like this guy is the very best at 155 right now? No, he's not. No. He's good, though. He is good. Tough to beat. You know, he's that guy that's hard to beat.

But not the best. No. You know, I think he's had three bouts that could have gone either or. You know, we're very close. And to be honest, like, I scored three of them to the other guy. Right. You know, the two actors and. and gill, but it could have gone either way, you know.

And they announced this on April 20th, the night of his fight. Did that give you an extra boost as you were a month away from this T.J. Grand Fight when you found out, because all of us didn't know this was coming, no one knew it was coming. Did you feel like you were a little bit more motivated? Yeah, halfway through the camp, you get a little bit down, a little bit, you know, slows up. But, you know, it was kicking the out. So I was pumped.

That's great. Well, I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to it, Gray. I'm looking forward to it, too. I'm looking forward to seeing you in Las Vegas. It's been a long time. You versus T.J. Grant, a very important fight at 155 pounds. Welcome back, Gray.

We'll see you over there in just a few days, and good luck against T.J. Grant. Appreciate the time. Yeah, thanks for having me on. All right. There he is. Gray Maynard stopping by. Good to have him on the show, a very important fight at 155 pounds for him. and the winner will be facing Benson Henderson for the UFC lightweight title.

Do you feel? You know, it's one of those things where beforehand it sort of came out of nowhere, and we weren't expecting it. Some people thought maybe Thompson would get it. Some people thought maybe they'd go immediate rematch for Mr. Gilbert Melendez. And, of course, there was still kind of the hope in some people's eyes that Anthony Pettus would get it, but this weekend they officially announced Pettus, Aldo, August 3rd, Brazil, it's not going to happen.

Although I do think that would be an amazing fight. Pettith versus Bendo 2, you mean you show that kick over and over again. It sells itself. Nevertheless, we'll see what happens this weekend. I think an emphatic win for Gray, an emphatic win for T.J. We'll really start to get people excited about this fight against Benson Henderson. Right now, I think there's kind of a wait-and-see approach. That's the sense I'm getting from people, and we'll see at UFC 160.

It's one of those rare fights where some of the undercard main card fights are in some ways more intriguing than the main event because we saw what happened in the main event just last year. It was last Memorial Day. Kane beat up Bigfoot in a matter of seconds. Bloody fight. But on this card, you got fights like Glover to Sher versus James DeHuna. Gray Maynard versus his opponent on Saturday, T.J. Grant.

You've got even KJ. Nunes versus Seroni. And, of course, the real people's main event. Mark Hunt versus JDS. It feels like those are in some ways more intriguing than the main event. But, hey, that's a fun card. Let us move along now and welcome in our our next guest, a man who fought on Saturday night, and before the fight, announced that win-lose-or-drawl, he would be retiring.

He'd be walking away from the UFC, walking away from the sport and mixed martial arts. He is John Cholish, and John, obviously a tough night for you. We appreciate you stopping by. I know you just got off the plane. How was the flight from Brazil to New York? It was a long one, but glad to be back in New York. It was definitely an interesting trip with a lot of experiences, but I'm happy to be back in the city.

When you say interesting, do you mean positive, negative, both? I mean a little bit of both. One of the real big positive takeaways, and I think everyone kind of saw that on TV or on the Facebook when they logged in was just a Brazilian fan base is just tremendous down there for the sports. We showed up, I think, about two and a half hours before the first fight.

There was a line down around the block for people waiting to get in. The place was packed before the first fight even kicked off. and the fans were just absolutely tremendous. Kind of some of the negative was just the logistics of flying where the fight actually was. The hotel we stayed at was actually about an hour and a half away from the arena. Wow. And, you know, it was an interesting experience. Kind of take the good with the bad, but overall it was, you know, an experience, but I'll definitely remember.

I want to work my way up to what you just talked about, but first, let's kind of start with the big decision. You announced on Twitter just hours before your fight that win-l loser draw, you were walking away. at what point did you come to this decision? I mean, it's something I've been kind of leading up to over the past year. It was something I was probably going to do when I had to Eve Edwards fight. Unfortunately, I had an injury there. The main reason behind it is just I do kind of have another job that provides for me. And it got to the point where I really had to sit back and say, you know, all the sacrifices that I'm making, you know, time away from family, time away from friends.

is it really worth what I'm getting in return? And for the love of the sport, I was pretty much doing it the whole time. But then it gets to a point where, you know, financially it just doesn't make any sense. And to kind of give a brief overview of kind of why I'm here or what I'm talking to you today is I just think a lot of fighters feel the same exact way I do, but are just in a situation or a position where they're, you know, for lack of better words, just scared to kind of say anything about it because they're worried about the repercussions. You've been hinted, I follow you on Twitter, of course, Twitter.com slash John Cholish, and you've been hinting at this in the past.

Even speaking up with the Pat Healy situation last week, you feel like the UFC does not compensate their fighters fairly? I can say from how I've been treated directly, and just on my understanding of what I think the UFC takes in on the annual basis, that they could compensate the lower-level fighters, and without going into detail, even the upper-level fighters, a little bit better. And kind of abstractly, the best way I could say it is, I think if you're a fighter on the lower level, you should at least be getting enough income, you know, win or lose in your fight, so that in a three-month period of time

or two-month period of time, whatever the fight camp may be, you can go into that fight fully focused on the fight, performing your best, as opposed to worrying about, man, you know, the outcome of this fighter, financially, how can I prepare, how can I cut corners? Because for someone who fights full-time, I just don't understand how they can live off the income at this level.

So let's just say, regardless of what happened on Saturday, but the UFC wanted to keep you around on their roster, if you were getting paid better, do you think you would have stuck around? Yeah, no, it was definitely a point where, you know, I was at least, I guess breaking even to that point or at least making some money. Yeah, it would be something I would consider doing and think I could make it a little bit more justifiable. but it's just

I think now I may add more value just being able to speak out and kind of give my opinion and hopefully maybe it encourages some other fighters to speak up and do the same but in the end I just really want to try to do what's best with the sport. Have you talked to other fighters in your position who felt the same way and who told you

I don't have another job. I don't have another great I can't go do something else right now. I can't talk about this. I wish I could. I have talked to numerous fighters at various levels within the UFC, within other organizations. as well, that do have and feel kind of the same opinions, not just fighters, coaches as well, or people in the media that are kind of in tune with our sport.

So I have, I'm obviously not going to say any names. To even give an idea, one of the fighters that fall on the card I saw the morning after and, you know, said, hey, you did a really great job. You don't want to grab a picture with him. And he even said, or his manager, he was like, I don't really want to do it. I don't know. Saw that, saw the post about, you know, talking about fighter salary. and I respect you, but, you know, I just, I don't want to take the picture.

Get out of here. Wouldn't take a photo just because, you know, not saying there would be backlash, but just the fear of whatever the backlash would be from, you know, the higher-ups. What was your response to that? I mean, I got respect, you know, his decision. It's not, you know, my place to say whatever, but, you know, just eye-opening. And, you know, I think a lot of fighters feel that way, especially when, you know, Dana White did express, they're going to be cutting a lot of fighters coming up,

which is a private company, you know, they're there to make, money. By no means is what they're doing wrong. They're doing doing, making a ton of money for themselves. I just think they could give more to the lower level fighters, maybe even more to the higher level fighters. And, you know, based on the income they're taking in, they wouldn't really, I don't think, feel that much of a hit. Like, just some things that I threw out, and this is just some research. I've just done on the internet. People can kind of look up the same. I think last year, the average UFC ticket price is about $200 to $250. For an average sporting event in America, it's about $100 for a ticket event.

So they're already double what the average price is. Last year they had 31 events that ranged in 11 different countries. 13 of those were pay-per-view. I'm not sure. I threw out roughly 300,000, 350,000 pay-per-view buys would be my rough guess for each event. I know they've kind of been down. That's generating roughly $4.5 million buys a year. That's $275 million.

And that's just with their pay-per-views. You know that they're kind of shifting more towards the control. contracted revenue, which would be, you know, Fox Sports, their global deal with GlobalSat in Brazil. They found a seven-year deal with Fox Sports, and I know Business Journal quoted it at roughly $100 million a year for seven years. I think it's probably more than yet, but that's what they said. That's another $700 million. So it's just when you look at guys that are, you know, getting paid $6,000 to fight, $8,000 to fight, $10,000 to fight, I think if you add, you know, $5 to that number, $10 to that number, it does a lot.

for the fighter. It secures their livelihood for their family. And on the flip side, it doesn't hurt the UFC as much. And I think they're going to get better performances because the fighters are going to be more focused on the fight. Someone might say, look, no one surprised you with these numbers. You were offered a contract. You signed it. Did this realization come to you afterwards, or do you just want to get in and then hope for the best? You'd get a bump in, and pay, et cetera, et cetera. In other words, why did you sign the contract if you didn't like the terms? I signed the contract because, and again, I'm not speaking for the fighters. I didn't go into this expecting to make money.

I expected to become a famous person. You've got a sport icon. I just do it because I love the sport and I like the competition. And right now that's the highest level of competition. And I was offered a chance to be able to test myself against that highest level. Without going into my day job, I do well enough that, you know, I don't even, I know going to these fights I'm going to lose money. And I was okay with that, but it just got to the point where,

between work and between training, I really had no time left for social, for friends, for family. And, you know, if I'm losing money, is it really something I want to keep doing? Especially when, you know, you are putting yourself at mental risk, bodily risk. It's a tough sport, and it wears on you. And if you're really not being kind of paid for it at all, it's just, you know, why do it? So you first fought in the UFC, December of 2011, here we are, June of 2013. You're walking away. Did you ever, at any point, talk to anyone where you kind of challenged them a little bit and said,

you know, why is the, you know, the hotel like this? Why do I have to stay here? Why do I have to do this? Why am I getting this amount? Did you ever kind of challenge them about these issues? I've had numerous emails, and I'm sure they can say to you. I've been a pain in the ass to a lot of their people. But again, it's their format out-set-up, and it seems like, and again, I haven't seen other people's contracts.

I'm not going to say I have. It seems like that's out-s-up. but just for like a basic example. And this is kind of one of the examples I wanted to present, both for myself and for my last fight when I fought Danny Castillo. So Danny, I know trains out of California. He had to travel to New Jersey. I live in New York.

I had to travel to Brazil. You're fighting in a sport mixed martial arts where it's a wide range of skills and tactics, and a lot of people have multiple coaches. So you're allowed three corners in each corner for a fight. But you're only in your contract. and for me personally, I only get one coach's flight at one hotel room and cover one visa. So I know just for this last flight, I had to pay over $3,000 in flights, flight costs, had to pay for an additional hotel room, had to pay for two additional visas, which are 500 apiece,

have to pay for the licensing fees, have to pay for the medicals. So you get down before I even step to the ring, my original purse is gone. So it's, you know, obviously I want to go in there and win. And that's before factoring in the gyms that I go to train at. My coaches that take hours of times for sacrifice, you know, I want to pay them and take care of them. If I don't do so well for a fighter doesn't do well, how does he reciprocate his coaches that put hours and times under his training partners? So it just becomes, I don't know, it just seems like certain things to be handling better and the fighter can be treated better within the organization for an organization that claims to be the best in the world that makes martial arts. How much did you make for that fight?

and how much did you have to pay for all that other stuff that you talked about? What you're talking about for which fight? So this fight, Glyss and T-Bow, how much did you make for it and how much should you have to pay for the flights, the visas, all that stuff? Basically, what did you end up with? Yeah, so my purse for that fight was $8,000, so it was $8,000. And technically, I haven't received any money because normally they give you the check right after, but it's supposed to be a wire.

But as of now, I shouldn't receive any money. Basically, you won't profit in. money, right? You'll get a check, but you'll have to pay, you know, for other stuff, right? No, it's actually up in the air. I may not even get a check just because a lot of the flights, visas, licensing fees, you can have the UFC take them out of yours. Oh, wow. On top of the Brazilian tax was 27%, which obviously that's, you know, normal country deserves their portion. So that comes out. So I'm not even certain I'll receive, you know, an actual stipend.

How much will you lose? Well, I, ballpark when you factor in, I'm going to take care of my coaches. I want to pay them. I want to pay. You obviously have to pay your manager. You have to pay people that you train with your gym. I would imagine the ballpark between 5 and 10K. Wow.

And obviously this was more than when you fought in Toronto and New Jersey because of the distance you had to travel for Brazil, right? Yeah, correct. But again, when I fought in Toronto and not to live, So someone wrote four and four. I was actually paid six and six, and they did give me a discretionary bonus, which was 5K. But even for that trip, I actually kept an Excel spreadsheet, and same thing.

I barely broke even on the fight. So that's roughly $17,000. I'm taking an income, but taxes go to Canada first. I had to pay for two flights. The hotel that they had at that was around $250 a night. I had to pay for additional coaches. You had the food. you have the gym.

At the end of the day, you're not, you know, I'm barely breaking even, or maybe I'm making a little bit of money. Did you ever ask them why they only pay for one coach? That's how it's been. The response I've gotten is, you know, that's how it's been, and that's how the contract is. And again, it's, you know, there's a big guy on campus.

You can't really, if I'm going to complain or if you want to go somewhere else, and I think this is why a lot of fighters don't speak up. You know, you'll find yourself in the other than getting cut and then, you know, where you're going to go fight for? So here's the interesting thing about someone, like you, you're 29 years old, high-level athlete, you've been competing your whole life,

you walk away because, yes, you have the security, you don't want to pay out of pocket, you don't want to lose money while you're competing, but I have a hard time believing that competitive fire has just, you know, disappeared. So what are you going to do in a year, two years, when you want to compete again?

Well, I have a ton of things, you know, proverbial bucket list, as you will, that I want to do, that, you know, revolves outside of the world of mixed martial arts. and, you know, there's a lot of competitive things you can challenge yourself with, a lot of things in this world to look into. So I'll definitely have a list of items and things I want to, you know, check off.

Now I have a little bit more time. It was tough, you know, working from 7 in the morning until 4 or 5 in the afternoon, going to one gym, going to another gym, coming all we're repeating. I wouldn't trade that experience for the world, but I feel like right now, hopefully there's some way I can help to kind of spread the word that, you know, the younger-level fighters definitely do deserve a higher pay, and hopefully you'll notice that. We often hear people on their way out talk about these things.

Often, to be honest, in a much higher position, you hear legends of the sport talk about this, but at the end of the day, they don't do anything. People have talked about trying to form some kind of group, a union, if you want to call it that, anything, but it never happens for whatever reason. Do you want to try to do this? Do you think that you can rally the troops?

I think it's a difficult situation for an individual-based, sport to form a union. You've seen the trouble that's had in boxing. Fortunately, other sports like baseball, basketball, you'll see strikeouts, where entire teams will step away and refuse not to pay. And listen, I understand your top-level guys like St. Pierre, Anderson-Silva, John Jones, they started off. They know exactly what I'm talking about. They were here a few years ago. And it's hard to, you know, look those guys in the face and say, hey, do you guys mind stepping away from the sport as a group for the better cause of the

greater good, when, you know, they sacrifice the blood, sweat, and tears to get to where they are now, and they do deserve it the money that they're earning. And I think that's kind of the catch-22 that you'll lie in. And, you know, there is no other organization, really, that can compete with the UFC right now. So you don't want to fight there, you're kind of, you know, SLO. So you don't see it changing anytime soon? Unfortunately, I don't. I think, well, one of the comments I saw on one of the websites, I think it was yours on M&AFighting.com,

a guy did a hashtag, you know, pay the fighters. The fans, I think, are the biggest ones that can influence, you know, what a company does. The fans are the ones that bring the revenue to Zufa. And if that ever decrease, you know, that's something they're going to take notice at. But until then, I think it's going to be hard for an individual fighter to do anything. I'm just hoping I can shed a little bit of light on it. A fighter in your position in boxing, how much do you think he makes? I wouldn't know.

I don't have any professional fights in boxing, but I can just kind of see the way you're going and would just say, you know, two wrongs don't make a right. I'm not sure if boxers have spoken up about it or not. But from my standpoint, I just think guys deserve to be able to go into a fight knowing they're going to get enough income

to support their family for whatever the next three or four months be, win or lose, to help continue their career and just focus about going in there doing the best that they can. So you talked about the hotel being an hour and a half away. I mean, how would you, when you look back on this trip, I know you said there were some positive experiences,

but do you think this affected your performance? Were you kind of, you know, against the eight ball here? You had to probably take a long trip. I doubt you were sitting business class, right? I mean, it probably wasn't the most comfortable experience. Yeah, but, I mean, I'm not making any excuses. Tebow is a great athlete. You know, he's been around forever.

He got the best of me that night. I didn't have the best performance. no excuses whatsoever. Everyone's kind of in the same situation. He's staying in the same hotel. You know, maybe didn't have to travel as far, but they get it thoroughly enough that you can kind of adjust to the situation.

I just think, you know, it would be nice to have a little bit being taken care of a little bit better throughout the whole process leading up the fight day that I think, you know, it would benefit not just the fighters, but also the end, bottom line, the fan, the consumer that watches the fights. Mentally, how did you feel,

I often feel like, especially in combat sports, when someone starts thinking about retirement or has decided it's time to walk away after this fight, they may not be at their best. For whatever reason, the edges off, they don't have that killer instinct, whatever, whatever. Did you feel like you were 100% focused on this fight, and you were motivated as you were in your UFC debut, let's say? Definitely felt motivated. I was a little frustrated, kind of with little things leading up to the fight,

but I took the mindset of that, pushed those all behind it, focused on the fight that week, got my weight down, had good training when I was down there. So, you know, I didn't, I think, perform as best as I could have, but there's no excuses for that, you know, that falls on me and me alone. I was definitely motivated and excited to be there. And, man, let me tell you, if I can't, you know, if I didn't mention it, again, those Brazilian fans are just amazing. And whether they were booing me, obviously because, you know,

I'm an American coming into the Brazilian territory, or the way they were cheering T-Bow. When I left the cage and was walking back to the locker room, they were all clapping and saying great things. It was just a really great environment to be in. You did have it seemed a little trouble making weight on Friday. What happened there? Yeah, I just was a little bit over.

We had an hour and a half ride. I thought I was going to float a little bit more than I did. The scale was lower after it, so I was 0.2 over. And, you know, took 10 minutes, got the weight off and, you know, made weight. Unfortunately, not the first try, but it worked out. Did any of the stuff you talked about? Do you think it affected your weight cut? Do you think you would have made weight had this fight been in New Jersey, let's say?

You know, I can't say that. I wouldn't want to make an excuse for that, so I don't think so. But at the end of the line, you know, I made weight and we were able to get the fight off. We mentioned that article that M.M.A. Junkie did. They spoke to you in Brazil, and you echoed some of the sentiments here and have expanded on them a lot here, and we certainly appreciate that. What kind of feedback have you gotten in the last 24 hours? I know you just got home, but have passed.

have people reached out to you and talked to you about what you said? Yeah, surprisingly, I expect, you know, I thought there may be, you know, some negative feedback or people saying, oh, guys are always complaining about the money they make. It's been overwhelmingly positive. I obviously just got home, so I was able to kind of log onto some websites and look through the comments. And it seems like a lot of the fans are pretty knowledgeable

and feel kind of a similar way that I do. I've had some players reach out to me individually that, you know, say, man, I really support what you're doing or, hey, I like that. wish I could say the same. So it's definitely been a positive kind of support. And I think one thing you've got to look at is even fighters, like you said, that have made it in the sport. Can you tell me one fighter that's literally on his own will, step up and said, man, the

UFC really takes care of me. I really appreciate it. I really thank what, you know, I really like what they do. They really help me financially. Because when I think about it, I can't think of one. And I think that's a pretty clear sign as to, you know, what's going on. You know, honestly, I've never asked that question. To someone, do you feel like you're being taken care of a top-level fighter, as you say?

You probably know them on a personal level. I mean, you're friends with GSP, your friends with Kenny Ford and these guys. So you probably know better than I would, and who knows if they'd even tell us the truth. But I feel like the John Joneses of the world, I haven't heard them complain about money. But maybe, again, maybe you know them on a more personal level, and they're telling you the truth. But, of course, you're not the first to complain about this privately or publicly. So I don't think this is earth-shattering in any sense, especially for someone in your position. not quite sure the guys at the top publicly have said it before.

Yeah, just kind of want to touch it on. And it's, again, the guys for the top, they're the ones that sell the pay-per-views. So, yeah, they're making a little bit more money than us. But if you kind of compare it to what Zupa is taking in, I don't know. I think people log in a lot more to see, you know, George and Anderson and John Jones than they do to see, you know, Dana White or Frater, Joe Silverton on the side of the ring. When did you go back to work?

I got back today, so I'll be back to work tomorrow morning. Wow, no break. No, no. Back. Vacation days are up, so it's right back to the office. So you use your vacation days to go down in Brazil and take this fight? Yes, that's correct. Do you feel like a weight has been lifted off your shoulders here, that you're now a free man? You could talk about whatever you want.

You could do whatever you want. I mean, I always thought I could kind of talk about or do whatever I want. I just kind of think it'll be nice. A lot of people have made a lot of sacrifices for me to kind of. to get where I am for my wrestling career a little when I wrestled up at Cornell when I started to transition to MMA from family to my girlfriend to close friends and I think you know I have a lot of people my time and respect and I think now I'm just going to have a little bit more time to kind of give that back and really show them that it really appreciate I really appreciated you know the

sacrifices they made to help me get to where I am I think one of the biggest things with mixed martial Arts is people may log in or, you know, turn on the TV and only see two individuals. But behind every great individual is, you know, an tremendous mindset of coaches with game plans, training partners, whether they be other professional athletes or amateurs or guys just in the gym with an individual discipline from wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu, the Mixed martial arts. It's all those guys that put in the work in the hours that help, you know, guys like us be able to perform for 15 to 25 minutes when it counts. Is it possible that your legacy in this sport has nothing to do or will have nothing to do with what you did,

Strike Force, UFC, the regional circuit, that John Cholish can really change things in the next few years? Do you believe that? Do you want to be a part of that? Or do you just want to take a break from everything? No, I mean, I'm here to try to help the younger guys and try to voice their opinion. And, you know, help in any way that I can. And I truly believe that if I can make an influence somehow, I think it's going to be through the fans. and if they can start voice in their opinion, they want to start that hashtag, pay the fighters,

maybe get that rotating around, maybe that starting point. It'll help, but, you know, like any movement or anything, it's got to start somewhere and, you know, hopefully just shedding a little bit of light on it. Maybe it'll get some other guys to speak out and, you know, get things headed in the right direction. And by the way, what about being an MMA agent or manager? Does that interest you?

No, I mean, it would be interesting. Again, without going too much detail, My college career was kind of spent towards finance. I got a job that I really enjoy with some great partners, and I'm very fortunate to have. So I see myself being there for a long time. If things go the way I would have some. Toughest question here, and then we'll let you go,

and we really appreciate this, John. Very, very interesting stuff. What were you more bummed about on Saturday night? Your loss or the loss of our beloved Knicks in game six against the Pacers? To be honest, and that's kind of why I treated it. Right after I lost to Tebow, and this is how I kind of knew I was, you know, I had said I wanted to retire before, but I didn't really know. I wasn't really upset.

I really enjoyed the experience. I didn't want to lose, but I didn't have that, like, heart-gut-wrenching, like sickness that I had in the past when I had lost. When I got back to the lock, the hotel, got the Internet, and then saw the Knicks lose lost, and it got even worse when John Anakin and Kenny Foley and told me the Bruins were up to the next day in the airport. So New York, just having a tough amount of it right now. It's been a rough weekend, but hopefully things will turn around.

Congratulations on a great career. I say maybe selfishly, would love to see you fight again. Really enjoyed watching you fight. Remember being there for your strike force debut, your lone strike force fight back in New Jersey, and that was a great performance, had the big win in your debut. But most importantly, again, I think maybe your legacy can be outside the cage. I think this has been very interesting, and we appreciate you coming on. I know it's probably not very easy to do so, especially after a very long flight,

just a couple hours later, but we appreciate the candor and the honesty and wish you nothing but the best of luck in the future. No, I really appreciate the time and taking the time out to speak with me, and if fans want to get it going, maybe try that hashtag, pay the fighters, and we'll see what happens with it.

Thank you very much, Ariel. And if you want to follow the man on Twitter and ask them any questions, Twitter.com slash John Cholish. Thank you, John. We'll talk to you soon. Have a great one. There he is. John Cholish, the newly retired,

John Cholish, speaking some very interesting things about life as a fighter. You don't hear that very often. And guess what? If you think it's like that in the UFC, well, how do you think it's like in the regional circuit and other promotions? I mean, the UFC is the crem de la crem,

and it can vary very much from promotion to promotion. That's his experience in the UFC. We appreciate him stopping by and sharing it with us. Okay, let's move along now. UFC 160, as I mentioned, is this weekend. One of the interesting fights on the undercard features Nashan Borell, who looked very good in his UFC debut, coming over from Strike Force,

against our guest at this time, Stephen Wonderboy Thompson with fantastic Skype connection. Wow, this is crystal clear. Stephen, how are you doing? Doing great, Aaron. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

We have not seen you in a very long time, my friend. You had a knee injury recently. You had to pull out about how are you feeling right now? Man, right now, of course, going into a fighting training all the time, you never 100%. But I feel great. I mean, I would say I'm 95, 97, 98%. But, you know, got a little bumps and bruises here and there, but that's what training's all about. But, yeah, it's been a long time since I've fought.

About a year. More than a year. After the Matt Brown fight and, you know, got some time to heal up from that. And I was supposed to fight in November, but ended up having a knee injury. Now, you've had knee injuries in the past during your kickboxing career. Was this one related to those? Yeah. I mean, it was an old injury.

I mean, I had some, of course, about seven or eight years ago, I tore every ligament in my left leg, tore everything. They took 40% of my meniscus out, and they had repaired some, and that's what actually retore was the cartilage they had repaired. So they had to go back in there and clean it out, but everything's good now. Knee's strong, so. So how did you injure the knee this time around? What were you doing that led to the injury? Just doing some wrestling, to be honest with you. Had some wrestlers come in from Minneapolis, Minnesota and we were here doing some just some drills man it was crazy it wasn't it wasn't like we were going harder or anything just a little a little tweak man and and i knew something was

wrong and the next day my knees swole up and there was a little pain so i knew something was up you know having knee injuries in the past and find out you know i retore that meniscus your story is a very interesting one because you came into the ufc with an amazing winning streak as far as your amateur kickboxing and pro kickboxing career and then mama career you were 62 and O in your last 262 combat sports fights. You win your UFC debut in very impressive fashion in one of the knockouts of the year, and then you lose to Matt Brown. For a guy that hadn't lost in so many years and so many fights, how did you deal with that?

You know, to be honest with you, I'm always been a positive guy. You know, at first it was just like, you know, what did I do wrong? You know, I remember the first round. I threw four kicks in the first round. after that I had I had nothing left. My body just kind of had no legs. My body just kind of shut down on me. And, you know, the cutting weight and everything and having those two fights back to back, you know, back to back, definitely the weight cut wasn't right.

I mean, not taking anything from Matt Brown. Matt Brown did exactly what he said he was going to do. He was going to kick my butt, and he did. But, you know, just got to go back and work on some things after that. And I knew it in my head. And, you know, once I – I've always told myself once I've lost that first – loss, you know, it's, it feels like there's a bunch of weight off my shoulders, to be honest with you. So you felt now like, or you feel now like you don't have to worry about the streak,

you don't have to worry about remaining undefeated, you could just focus on the fight itself. Right, exactly. I can just go out there and just do my thing. I'm not having to worry about the hype of never, never being defeated, so. Did you, so you actually felt that pressure? Because people talked about it a lot. They asked you a lot about it. Did it feel like it was getting to be too much? Um, you know, going into my first UFC fight, you know, I was a little nervous going into it just because it was such a bigger, bigger promotion than what I'm used to, you know, and a lot more interviews and, you know, all talking about the same thing. Hey, man, you've never lost, you've never lost, this and that.

And I was like, wow, you know, it kind of, it was a lot of hype. And, you know, it made me nervous. But, yeah, man, it was more than what I was kind of used to. But, you know, I was focused on my game, and I went out there and did my best. So, and now I can just go out there and do the same thing, just focus on the fight, not have to worry about all that. Did you think Matt Brown would turn into the story that he's turned into? Because when he beat you, it was only his second straight win.

Since then, he's being three other guys. He's Mr. Fox. He's putting on amazing performances. Did you expect that out of him? Man, you know what? I'm sitting back here rooting for Matt Brown, to be honest with he's a good guy. And, wow, man, he's been mowing through guys. No, I mean, after that first fight, after me and him, you know,

duped it out. I never thought that he would, you know, be fighting, you know, two, three, four more times. and knocking dudes out in the first round. So, you know, kudos to him, man. He's on a streak and he's focused, man. We know how great you are as a striker, obviously, and the knock against you,

and it made the doubters into believers and made them gain followers, if you will, was your wrestling, right? And you just said you injured yourself wrestling before the fight in November. Where are you at right now, as far as your wrestling is concerned? How confident are you on the ground? Oh, man.

You know, I was confident on the ground during the Matt Brown fight. It was just, you know, I had nothing. My body shut down. I was in survival mode, you know. I wasn't cardio tired. It was just, I don't know, my body wasn't working. I had no legs. And so, I mean, my wrestling defense was there.

I just, my body wasn't able to perform it, so to speak. So, but right now, man, you know, back in the game. and a wrestling has improved tenfold, I feel, and everything else, my jiu-jitsu, even my striking. So going into this fight, it's, number one, it's going to see a different difference, Stephen Thompson. Did you spend time at TriStar in this camp? No, not for this camp. For this camp, I kept it at home, brought some fighters in, Mike the Lion King out of American Top Team. My brother Evan, who's also a professional MMA fighter out of Legacy, he's a very good strong.

striker. He fights at 185 pounds. And just local wrestlers coming in and doing some good training. So it's been a great camp, to be honest with you. You'd be able to do it at home. Stay focused here. And, you know, because not only am I a professional MMA fighter, but we run a martial arts school here. You know, upstate karate in Simpsonville. And we've got about

650 students. And I'm a big part of that as well. And of course, your father, before you was a fighter ran the school. You grew up in this world. How has business changed for the family once you became a UFC fighter? Man, it's actually picked up. It's picked up again. Even in a small town of Simpsonville, South Carolina. But it's picked up.

But, you know, I'm still focused on my MMA training, and it hasn't slowed me down. Have you noticed or did you notice people kind of jump off the Wonderboy bandwagon after the Matt Brown fight? Because I remember when you made your debut and you finished the fight the way you did with that kick, you were a hot topic. Everyone was talking about you, and then they turned you around so quickly. Everyone wants to see what you do against a veteran like Matt Brown. A lot of people were picking you in that fight.

After that, did you notice people stop talking, stop sort of hyping you up? Did you feel like the bandwagon got a little lighter? Yeah, it did. But like I said, it was kind of a big weight off my shoulders, to be honest with you. You know, like I said, it doesn't really bother me that much. I've always been a positive guy, and I keep positive people around,

and to keep me focused on what I need to be doing. And I'm not worried about all that. I'm just going to go out there and do my thing. Do you think Burrell is going to try to wrestle you, considering how that fight against Brown went? I don't know. You know, I think any fight I would do that. I mean, after watching that fight,

it looks like I literally have no wrestling whatsoever. But I think so. I mean, he says he's going to go out there and bang with me, but we'll see if he changes his mind. But I'm ready for it. Wherever the fight goes, I'm confident in, you know, every aspect of the game. He had a solid outing in his UFC debut back in February.

What did you think of his performance? Man, I thought he's a beast, man. He was out there, especially his opponent who was slapping on submissions and him escaping him. He had a deeper naked choke and ended up getting out of it. So, you know, his ground defense is awesome. But he's a boxer from Philly, man. He likes to go out there and bang and put on a good show,

and I'm willing to do the same thing. By the way, are you 100% done with the world of kickboxing? Yes, definitely yes I mean You know I've got five amateur world titles I've got you know The Waco I won the Waco World Championships

The Oaksa World Championships And I'm just kind of satisfied With it and you know Ever since I was little I wanted to be the best fighter in the world And to do that today It's MMA It's the fastest growing sport in the world

Why do you think kickboxing Never reached the level MMA has in this country Man Ah man that's a good question I don't know I mean, I know in the 60s, 70 and 80s, the kickboxing was huge. It just died down with the mixed martial arts.

People wanted to see something different and wanted to see something, you know, bloody and more exciting. And MMA was it. So once that hit the fan, UFC got out there, kickboxing kind of went downhill. And the Europeans picked it up and, you know, ran with it. And there's some of the best strikers in the world right now. You know, there's some promotions glory. K-1's not really doing much these days. But do you feel like it has a chance?

with maybe, you know, boxing's doing well, MMA's doing well, it seems like the public, at least here in America, very into fighting these days, maybe not as much as, you know, the 70s and 80s, but it's still out there. Do you feel like it has a chance to become big in this country,

or for whatever reason, it never will? Kickboxing? I don't think so. No. I think MMA is the way to go, and I think it's going to, you know, I think we just kind of scratched their surface of, and I think it's going to get even bigger. I mean, yeah, you still have kickboxing events,

I mean, I think it's going to stay right where it's at. I mean, because you've got a lot of younger MMA fighters out there who can't fight MMA because they're too young. So they've got these other sports like kickboxing competing in grappling tournaments that are always going to be there to kind of, you know, help them move up the ladder and get them ready for when they are, you know, able to fight MMA. They'll have that experience. Any kickboxing leagues even approach you these days because you have a name now in the world of MMA? Not really. I talked to Steve Fawson, the president of ICF, you know, International Kickboxing Federation.

And actually, to be honest with you, I think it's picked up for him since MMA is getting so big. I mean, because you do have these younger fighters who want to compete in something. They're learning these martial arts, learning the ground, they're learning to kickboxing. They can't fight MMA yet. So they're going to these kickboxing tournaments. How has it changed? The rise of M.A. Change what your family does at your school here because I'm assuming back in the 80s,

you weren't teaching things like mix of martial arts. Actually, Kimball Karate is basically kind of a special art style, the American style, is basically M&A. I mean, we're learning the striking, learning the ground because 99.9% of the time, in a street situation, you're going to end up on the ground. But it never has been up to this level, you know? I mean, we got great jiu jih Tzu instructors. You know, my jih Tjitsu instructor brother-in-law, Carlos Machado,

and great striking coaches here, wrestling coach Thomas Lee. So, I mean, it's definitely picked up here. Yeah, it's a very interesting aspect of your life. Carlos, very well known in the jiu-jitsu world, he's your brother-in-law. What's it like having your brother-in-law as your instructor? Weird? Man, it's cool. Okay.

It's pretty cool. It's much harder to rank up with him, which is awesome. You know, I mean, he's never going to rank me up until he knows I'm ready. And especially having a sister who can pretty much tell him to come see me anytime. He listens to her, and whenever I want him here from my training camp, I just talk to her and she sends him over. So it's great, because they're out of Dallas. Is he tougher on you because your family? Oh, definitely, definitely.

And I wouldn't have it any other way. And your sister, do you think that she, you know, married into a combat sports world because of how she grew up? I would say so. Yeah. I mean, they attracted to that kind of, you know, person because of who you were, your father, et cetera, et cetera. Do you believe that? Oh yeah. Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, she's been in, you know, she fought before I did. And she was kind of my, you know, she was my inspiration. I actually start, you know, competing her and my dad. And, you know, it was growing up, it was rough having a sister here. It was a fighter man, an older sister. So it was pretty rough. But I think, you know, I mean, she's got four kids, her and Carlos. And they've started the age of three. And they've got wrestling coaches. You know, they got Carlos, their Brazilian jihitsu coach. And my brother Evan lives out of Dallas. And that's their striking coach. So they've been starting. They started since they were three.

So on Saturday night, in your corner, will your dad, Ray, be there, your sister, your brother-in-law, and your brother and your corner, just keep it in the family? Oh, yeah, yeah, they'll definitely be there. I think my brother, my brother Tony's going to end up being in my corner. Carlos Machado was supposed to go to Australia, but quick change of plans. He's actually going to be there for Vegas.

I don't think he's going to work my corner, but it's got to be me, my brother, and my wrestling coach, Coach Tom. And also people might know you from the World Combat League, right, Chek Norris' league. What was it like working for that man? The legend. Chuck Norris was awesome. He's the sweetest guy you love to be in your life.

It was definitely a different fighting league. I mean, it was different. It was almost like you're fighting in a Super Bowl. Yeah. So it wasn't any cage, nowhere you could him somebody up. So it was constant moving, constant action. It was a good experience. How closely involved was he in the day-to-day operations of the league?

Man, he made sure he was there every day. Really? I mean, he made sure, yeah, oh, yeah, from the lighting to the music to where the location was, he was there. It was his baby. He made sure it was run right. Are you surprised that didn't do better, or do you think it pretty much did as well as you thought it would? Yeah, I mean, it was trying to compete with MMA, and I didn't see it, especially at the time you had the, what was it, the IFL? Yes. I think it was going on to team to VIN as well, and that just blew it out of the water, I believe.

You know, the mixed martial arts, people just wanted to see more action, and that was it. I mean, they wanted to see the ground. They wanted to see more blood. You know, it's the closest thing you're going to get to what the gladiators did, you know, a thousand years ago. So, and that's what people want to see. You know, I was talking to my colleague, Luke Thomas, about this recently. You know, there's this movement, save wrestling, save wrestling. You know, the Olympics are trying to get rid of amateur wrestling.

And I was saying, Tim, why do I feel like a bad person that I don't feel like this is the most important thing that the world of MMA should be focused on? that this shouldn't be on a UFC broadcast, that we shouldn't be pushing this down people's throats. If you want to do it good, but I feel like it's almost like being rammed down my throat. Someone coming from the kickboxing world, whose sport that you grew up in, you know, has faltered, do you ever think, like,

why aren't people campaigning to save kickboxing? Or do you not feel as strongly about kickboxing as maybe some of the wrestlers do about their sport? Yeah, I mean, you know, kickboxing's track, it will always be my forte and always be my first love. But it's just, it was just never, never the level what what Olympic wrestling is. I mean, it was never in the Olympics. You know, Taekwondo, judo, those type of martial arts were there, but kickboxing was never

at the hype of wrestling. I mean, wrestling has been there since the beginning of the Olympics. So I think that has a lot to do with it. I mean, it's been there since the beginning. And you're getting, you know, these high school kids wanting to go up and they have goals. And now it's just not there anymore. So what are they going to do next? You know, I think if that does happen, they're going to move to MMA. So it could be wrestling's loss, MMA's game. We keep talking about wrestling. So this is what I expect to happen on Saturday.

They start the fight, quick double leg from Mr. Thompson, ground and pound. You win in 30 seconds. I think that's the way you'll really shock people this time. What do you think? You think so? Yeah. You know what? You never know.

Just watch it. Stay tuned and you'll see what's going on. You may see a few take downs from me, but may see an awesome knockout. Looking forward to it. to have you back. It's been a very long time, and I think a lot of people are looking forward to seeing what you can do against a tough guy like Burrell. Stephen Wonderboy Thompson. Thank you so much for stopping by,

and we'll see you in Las Vegas. Thank you, Ariel. It's been a pleasure. All right, there he is. The Wonderboy himself with a very big fight coming off the Matt Brown. Let me just fix something here. Coming off the Matt Brown fight last April, UFC 145, it was

the last time Wonderboy Thompson fought, I wasn't even a father. Can you imagine that? It was early, April 21st, I believe it was, if memory serves me correct. UFC 145 in Atlanta, lost to Matt Brown, and it was a different Matt Brown. If you recall, a lot of people, including myself, thought Wonderboy was going to beat Matt Brown. And now Matt Brown has gone on a very impressive streak. And Wonderboy hasn't fought since then.

Brown has fought three times since then, very active. And Mr. Wonderboy has been dealing with all kinds of, well, a knee injury that has hampered him in the past. and now here he is looking to get back on track against Nashan Borell. In a minute, we'll be joined by Holly Holm. Holly Holm, if you are not familiar with her, is a very, very successful pro boxer. And now I could call her a former pro boxer because she announced after her fight last weekend that she was going to retire from boxing and focus all her efforts, 100% on mixed martial arts.

This is someone who was just a very active person, got into boxing because she was taking an aerobics class that was taught by Mike Winklejohn, who of course, very famous trainer, who trains fighters out of the Jackson Winklejohn camp in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And Mike guided her and got her into boxing, and she ended up becoming a very successful boxer,

won many championships, won many awards. She was a back-to-back fighter of the year, winner. You look at her resume. She's won all kinds of titles, retired, at least for now, from boxing, with a 33-2-and-3 record, and she's fought three times in mixed martial arts. She's 3-0 as a mixed martial artist,

and most recently she fought for Bellator back in February and won via second round TKO. And we have her now on the phone, want to talk to her about this transition. Holly, how are you? I'm doing. I'm doing great. Thank you so much for stopping by. I'm really excited to talk to you. So why did you decide to say goodbye to boxing and now focus on mixed martial arts full-time?

I think boxing professionally since I was 20 and I'm 31. So I'm just kind of, it's been 11 years, and I just kind of want a new venture, you know. Something new, something exciting, a new spark to focus on. Do you feel like the ceiling is taller for someone like you in the world of MMA, considering what's happening now in the UFC, considering the rise of the likes of Ronda Rousey as opposed to boxing? In other words, have you reached a plateau in women's boxing? I think there's always something that's to be done in women's boxing. I mean, there's always highs and lows.

I started when there was low. I think there was a high, probably more. I think since I've been boxing, I think the highest part was in 2008. And that's when, you know, there was a couple of women's fights on Fox Sports Net and on ESPN2. And I think it was televised more than it is even now. And so, I don't know, it'll never go away. But it has ties and lows. and I think there will be more doors opening with MMA as of right now.

But for me, it really has nothing to do with that. It's just kind of where my passion's been, and I just want to go with what I'm excited about. And that's really all it is with me. There's nothing else that aided to my decision to change over. What delicious snack are you munching on right now? Oh, I'm so sorry. Just curious.

I mean... I've had chocolate covered all this. Oh, well, how nice. It's great listening to someone talk with a mouthful of chocolate-covered almonds. Hey, it's what we got from my thought. I'm eating everything in sight. Oh, okay. So now you ballooned to 200 pounds?

I've actually put on 20 since weighing. Wow. 20 pounds. Successfully. Oh, yeah. I know how to put it on easy. Like what? What are you targeting?

I don't want to get any heavier than I am right now, especially because in an end I have to weigh in five pounds wide. than what I try that in boxing. Oh, okay. I'm going to start being terrible. They're dark chocolate almonds, so they're not bad. Oh, okay, yeah. Then you can continue eating them.

Please fill up your mouth to them. Why do you think, though, women's... I think right now you talk about 2008, women's MMA feels like it's more popular today than women's boxing has ever been. Why do you think that is? And do you disagree? No, I fully agree.

I think that it's definitely more popular now than women's boxing's ever been. I mean, if women's boxing's had a high, it's been one. It hasn't been, you know, it's been, I mean, Christy Martin fought on an undercard of Mike Tyson, I think, years and years ago. And box sportsmen had those all-girls fight night cards on Thursdays for a while. But it didn't last for more than a year that they did that. And it was only probably four different times in that year.

You know, and now with the U.S. being on everybody's TV all the time. I think that, you know, with women being involved in that, it's just gotten bigger and bigger. And I think MMA as a sport has blown up to begin with. And so I think maybe more women are getting into it, even when they're starting out, they're going to start out in MMA rather than in boxing. And so I feel like there's more competition. is going to be in women's MMA, then there is in women's boxing,

and that also helps it to be more successful because there's more people, more competition, and then you find the better fighters. And they kind of display more of a professional fight. If it's in a really big fight on TV for women's boxing, sometimes they'll throw maybe just to fill in some TV fight with, you know, maybe like a pro debut of a girl's fights that's on the undercard, but they're using it to still time, and it doesn't really showcase the best of women's boxing. And so sometimes I think there's been a lot of women's boxing hasn't ever been able to really

be showcased with the capabilities that the women actually have. I think it's always been under the radar, and I think women's MMA has definitely broke through that more, and they're showcasing the better women, and I think that's what's helping it to grow even faster. I mean, it's growing at the fastest rate of any sport that I can think of. Now, when you make this run in mixed martial arts, will it be at Bantamweight 135 pounds? Yes, that's my weight I'm going to stick at. And it's a stacked weight class, that's for sure.

I think it's probably one of the busiest, biggest weight classes as far as how many girls are in it and how many, you know, girls have really made a name for themselves. it. But I think why not go with it? Then, you know, I think that's the best thing to do is really challenge yourself. And it's also the best one to be in because that's the only one that's in the UFC right now. That's right.

And last time we saw you in mixed martial arts, you were fighting for Bellator, as I mentioned, you picked up a win there. Are you contracted to them, or are you a free agent right now? I'm a free agent. I'm not contracted to them. It was a one-fight deal. I actually still

I'm working with my promoter that I've been signed with for boxing. And he's actually the one that helped kind of work to deal out with Bellatorre when they fought here. And I think it was one of the things. A lot of people are contracted with Bellator, but I think what worked is that it was a local fight. And because locally I have a lot of fans here in Albuquerque, it was an easy thing for them to say, okay, we'll go ahead and have her on the show so that they got local ticket sales as well. Right. And I think that that's kind of how that worked out.

But, yeah, I'm a free agent. I'm not signed with anybody. I'm just going to see what doors open for me from here. Has your team been talking to anyone lately? I think they've been talking to everybody, but they probably don't tell me much because I'm just kind of relaxing and enjoying a little bit of time off. I'm going to get back in the gym and just start wrestling

and get back into learning some of that because I'm obviously, I mean, I'm behind on that. You know, I'm a beginner with that. And so I want to get in and really put some time in with Matt work and just kind of focus on that right now. And I'm really fortunate that I have, you know, my trainer and my promoter that put so much time into kind of seeing opportunities for me to where I don't really have to do that.

And I'm really thankful for that. So I'm sure they've kind of been brainstorming and checking in on things, you know, with different opportunities. Would you like to jump to the UFC right now? You know, I'm not in any rush. I feel like with three fights, I've only trained for those three fights as well. And they're, I mean, maybe two months to three months of training for those fights. So technically, I've only had nine months of training.

I don't want to go in the ring or in the cage tomorrow with someone who, you know, their whole background has been this really successful, you know, ground game, which it's not like I haven't been with people who have been, you know, kind of experienced with that. I have confidence in myself and I think I've learned at a very fast rate, but just like maybe somebody who's a ground game fighter is not going to want to get in a boxing ring with me tomorrow. Right. They probably want to prepare themselves a little better. So I think depending on the opportunity.

I don't want to be thrown at the wolves, but I definitely want to take the biggest opportunities by canon, the biggest challenges. Like I said, I do have confidence in myself with what I've learned so far, but I definitely want to learn a lot more to be able to compete with some of these girls that have been doing us for a long time. But as far as your ground game is concerned wrestling, jitia, all that stuff, you would classify yourself right now as a beginner? Yes, but I think I'm still a beginner in boxing, so I don't think that. How huge ever. You're still beginning. And you mentioned, you know, I heard you kind of correct yourself when you said ring, Cage, most MMA events these days.

How weird is it in those three fights, especially when, you know, you're in there, you're so used to doing one thing. You're so used to boxing. And now you have all these other weapons that you can use and you have to defend these things as well. You don't have to worry about just the punching. And, of course, there's much more involved in boxing. But is that a weird transition?

Is that a tough thing to move on? It's actually really fun on the offense part. Right. I love to be able to use more. I mean, there's been times of an boxing ring, and I'm boxing, and, you know, the girls are being real defensive and kind of leaning over and kind of turning their back a little bit,

and I just think, man, if I could just kick them right now. I'd be awesome. And so offensively, it's fun. It's like, you know, I mean that I have all these other weapons I can use, but defensively, it's obviously a lot more scary because you're worried about them, you know, shooting on you and kicking you, and you have to watch out for a lot more on the defensive

the end of it. So it just, you know, it has its things that are more fun and it's things that are more of a challenge. But, you know, I think that's just what has been making it and exciting as a whole. Just everything to learn and just a new spark. I feel like you would have been the perfect candidate for the ultimate fighter. Did you think about trying out for that?

I think I thought about it, but I feel like I want to put some time into the gym here and not just go out there and, you know, kind of just kind of shooting the dark out with that. I kind of want to train here and put some time together here and be more prepared if I was to do something like that. But I also feel that with the team that we have and the opportunities that we've already been able to come across as of yet, I feel like I'll be able to have those opportunities in the future without necessarily, you know, having to be able to be able to have to be able to

to go on the show. I think that if I was to do that, say I do go on maybe if they do another show in the future. I think that would be fine. Like I said, I just want to put a little more groundwork in. I think also with my last boxing fight being just recently, my mind wasn't even thinking about going out for the tryouts, you know, and those trials were going on while I was training for my last boxing fight.

didn't even want to confuse the two. It never was anything that really crossed my mind. And I just, you know, after this, if we have an opportunity to fight locally here again or to, you know, there's always been Victor, UFC, and, you know, there's opportunities out there. And we've been able to, I've had three fights in M.A. That have been great opportunities already. So I don't feel like I'm too limited right now.

I guess I'm very fortunate that I have, you know, a promoter that's, a lot of time and effort into my career. And he's going to be just as supportive with MMA. So I think that's why it kind of takes some of the stress off me. I don't have to really worry about, you know, I have to really even plan too much of that. I just kind of take whatever they say, whatever opportunity comes. I just take it and try and make the best of it. What kind of a transition will be for you for someone who is in your place in boxing,

now going to MMA as far as how much you're making. Is there a big gap in terms of the purses that you're dealing with now? You know, as far as what I was getting paid in boxing compared to what a lot of the girls get paid in MMA, I mean, I've been able to support myself. I mean, Ron Darcy, obviously, she made more money on her last five than I made in my boxing fights, but there's very few girls in MMA that are making a ton of money.

and I have been able to support myself with boxing and, you know, with certain opportunities in the MMA, if I have to take a pay cut to take the opportunities, I'm not against that, I'm not, you know, I'm aware that I've only had three fights, but I don't, you know, I've never fought for money anyway. It's always been for passion, I'm going to stick to that. And, you know, whatever fight comes,

we'll make sure that it's worth it, worth the effort, but, you know, I'm not going to shy away from something if it's a good opportunity. I don't know. It's hard to explain. I think it just has to want to see what the opportunity is. What's interesting is that when you announced this in the press release and all that, specifically Ronda Rousey was mentioned, and now you say, obviously you say that you think

you're a beginner in boxing as well as the ground game. Honestly, how far away do you think you are from really, you? challenging Rousey? I don't know. My coach and my team has a lot of faith in me. They think I'll be able to really work my way up.

But, you know, by the time, say even a year from now, who's to even know if she's the one that saw the belt, who knows? You know, there might be somebody else that's out there. And I, don't get me wrong, Rhonda Rousey is definitely the girl

to be right now. But when I was even in boxing, people would ask me about the biggest name sometimes. I just always would say, I'm not going to wait around for one fight because that doesn't define my whole career. And there's a lot of really tough girls out there. And so, you know, I don't, I haven't really thought really too much about it. I think that there's so many girls out there are so tough that I'm not just going to focus on one fight. I don't want to be able to get in there and just compete with anybody they put in front of me. me and just be prepared as it comes.

And no matter what, I just, I want to really get to the basics and kind of try and perfect some things. I did that my whole group in boxing. I was trying to throw a jab more in this last training camp for my last boxing fight. You know, I feel like it's never ending to want to try and perfect those basics, you know. So I don't know. I'm just kind of, I don't know, I'm just going to ride the wave, I guess. and see what opportunities come.

Does she impress you as a fighter? I think that I think she has that fighter spirit in her and I think she's got obviously great ground game before MMA even you don't go medal in the Olympics if you're a slouch.

Obviously she's very, very good at what she does and no doubt about it. I think that she's is one of the kind athlete and I think that, you know, we always even say in a gym you can teach a fighter technique, but you can't, you know, a technical

fighter, you can't really teach them in the heart. And I think that with Rhonda, she's a fighter. I think she has that fighter spirit in her and I think that's probably the biggest part that helps her to be so competitive and to be successful with it. And so I feel like,

I feel like, that's what helps her to be a complete fighter. And I think that that's what's going to help her succeed. And I see her being the champion for a while. I don't know if there's really going to be a lot that can, I mean, you can punch him in the face for five rounds, and if they still tap you out in the fifth round, you still lose the fight.

And I think she's got great technique and great passion for the sport. And so I think that she's going to be a great champion. that for sure. Two last quick questions. Then we let you go and we appreciate the time.

I'm getting a lot of questions, a lot of fans wanting to know. I know there's a boxer named Cecilia. Maybe you mispronouncing her last name.

Is that how you pronounce her name? I wouldn't be able to correct you because I'm not exactly sure. I heard recuse and I've heard

breakus and brackets. She is claiming that you are leaving boxing because you are ducking her you don't want to fight her.

What is your response to that? You know, and like I said, I've never waited around for one fight, and my whole career is not going to be defined by one fight. We've been fighting for 11 years. The last two and a half years we've been trying to put a fight together with her. I'm not saying she's been dodging.

I'm not saying I've been dodging. I think that it just never came to the head. And towards the end, when they knew that I was pretty much kind of over with boxing, they've been really, really offering a fight now. And I told my dad and I told my friends, I've told everybody that I will always fight for passion and not for money. And I'll never wait around for going to fight. I'm going to stick true to that. And that's what I'm doing.

I'm just not really that passionate about boxing anymore. And I want to go to M.MA and so I'm going to fall in my heart and do that. And, you know, she can say all she wants about saying that I'm walking away. But I know that I've taken a lot of challenges. challenges in my career. I mean, there's been a lot of times, oh, who's next? And then the big next fighter, oh, you're going to fight her? And I fought them.

And I sleep good at night knowing that I've been able to really challenge myself. And, you know, I think she's going to be a great champion. And let her take it and go with it. That's fine. I'm not going to say anything negative about her. But I do know myself and my passion and what I'm working for. And if they seem that I'm taking the easier route by going to MMA, crazy.

It's the route unknown. That's, you know, I have so much to learn with that. And I think that's a real big misconception, thinking I'm taking an easier route by going to MMA. I've only had three fights, and it's kind of going on a path unknown, you know. Boxing is what is known for me. And so, I don't know. I almost feel like they're taking us a little too far to get, you know, kind of some

media attention on their own end, you know, and so I try not to really entertain it too much. Finally, when are we going to see you fighting MMA again? When's your next fight? I don't know. We'll see. Hopefully, in the next few months, I mean, I did want a little bit of a break. I just fought in December and in February and then May. I think I only had maybe 10 weeks in between each fight, which was pretty much a training camp ward.

and so I haven't really had much time off, and I've been enjoying it. Hence why I've gained 20 Townsend's laying, but it's good for me. So, you know, I'm going to lightly train, go in, get some wrestling in, just kind of keep on my running, but I'm not going to get too wrapped up into it because I actually kind of need a mental break as well. It's kind of been an emotional roller coaster over the last, couple months. And as much as I'm excited about MMA, it's, I mean, it's an emotional thing for me to leave boxing as well. And so I'm just kind of enjoying my friends and family and just

a life outside the ring right now. And in the next couple weeks, if we find, like, you know, that we want to take an opportunity coming up, and maybe we'll do that. And I don't know, maybe it'll be as early as July or August. And maybe it'll be more. more September October. I'm not really sure, but I definitely think I'm going to be in the ring for, you know, this year's over. All right. Well, good luck. Good luck in your new venture. Good luck in your new venture. Thank you so much. And thank you for the time. I really appreciate it. Oh, no. It was great having you on. And good luck with those almonds. Enjoy them. Eat a couple more for us.

I'm pretty sure the whole box will probably be gone by the time I'm done with him. We appreciate the time very much. Best of luck to you and we'll talk to you very soon. All right. Thank you so much. There she is. Holly Holmes stopping by looking to make a run in the world of mixed martial arts after a very successful pro boxing career. Now she focuses on MMA 100%. And we'll see if she makes it all the way to the UFC and perhaps against someone like Ronda Rousey with her striking. If she can develop a ground game, could be interesting.

How will she deal with the ground game as far as the top level competition is concerned? That remains to be seen. Okay, let's move along now and welcome in one of the best managers in the sport of mixed martial arts, a man who had a very interesting week last week, manager to the likes of Nathan Diaz, Hoyce Gracie, King Moe Lawal, Roy Nelson, Derek Brunson, a very impressive list,

and the legend, Hoyce Gracie, I just said that. He is, of course, Mike Kogan. Mike, how are you? Hi, what's going on? Good to have you on the show, Mike. So what kind of week did you have last week, considering everything that went on with your client,

Nate Diaz? Was that an annoying week? Was that a frustrating week? Was that a fun week for you? I wouldn't say it was annoying I think it's turning into an annoying because initially there was an outburst of mixed between support and

and just people slandering and just hate and then that's cool I mean anytime you say anything that's controversial or unpopular or unpopular or questionable you're going to get people there to kind of understand where you're coming from and get behind you, and then you get people that are offended by what you say, and they kind of smash you,

and that's fine. But now it's like, we're in day four people, so like get off my timeline. My Twitter is my personal Twitter. I don't want to hear your goddamn remarks, comments, thoughts, opinions. I don't want to hear them on day one, but I'll tolerate him for the first few days.

But move on. I mean, next drama, let's, you know, whatever else is going on. Just get on that bandwagon. Just leave me alone. So yeah,

At this point, it's becoming a nuisance. And what I find really funny is that there's people that get on there to tell me what an idiot I am, what a moron I am, and how I don't follow the protocol of acceptable behavior and blah, blah, blah. Every one of them uses foul language, offensive words. And I'm going, yeah, you're here preaching to me. I shouldn't do something. and you're using a foul language and offensive words and calling me a moron and an idiot to make your point.

That's just really further drives at home. So we'll get to your part and all of this in a second, but first, Nathan Diaz sends out that tweet about Brian Carraway after Healy was fine, suspended, didn't get his bonuses, and then Nate Diaz a day later gets suspended 90 days, fine 20,000 from the UFC. Are you surprised that the UFC went this route,

that they punished him so harsh? No, I'm not surprised. I mean, they've made it pretty clear that they don't want to, you know, they're not going to tolerate any kind of controversial statements. I don't think they made it clear enough as to exactly what they are and what they're not. I mean, I'm still confused on this code of conduct thing, but I know that one exists, I guess, somewhere.

But no, I mean, I'm not. I wasn't shocked that they came out the way they did, no. Why are you confused about it? Well, because, I mean, just this. This is just my personal opinion. I don't want people jumping all over me for this and hating on me again. But I think yesterday, a day before yesterday, Joe, whatever his name is, Benavides, Benavides, whatever. Benavides.

He tweets out a picture where his butt naked with a watermelon between his, you know, where his junk's supposed to be. And two guys in singles behind him. And the tweet says, just doing my part to support wrestling or freeing wrestling or whatever. I mean, to me, that's... I don't really know what message he was trying to send. I don't know how supporting wrestling involves being naked with a watermelon between your legs and two guys in singles behind you. But one could argue that would get some people offended.

And, I mean, you know, nothing's going on with him. So, you know, I don't know. I just... I don't know how this thing is applied. And, you know, obviously... the slur that Nate used, which was not intended for what people are thinking it was intended for, you know, it's not, I'm sure it qualifies as something you shouldn't say, but, you know, I don't know. I just don't know how it's applied, you know, different people to different stuff.

I think Rhonda Rousey's made some comments to what kind of question. We're not trying to throw people under the bus. I'm just saying people are out there, you know, making their opinions known, and I guess randomly some opinions are more bolder than the others, or maybe there's some kind of like Twitter hate meter. You know, if it goes up too high, then you start to punish it. I don't really know.

It really doesn't matter. I mean, it is what it is. Did anyone from the UFC talk to you or Nathan and say this is why we feel like he crossed the line? This is why we are punishing him. No, not a big explanation. I think it was more of like, you know, hey, you guys have missed a spend and then fine.

We're like, all right, whatever. So he has to pay this money, and then it goes to charity? Do you know which charity it will go to? No, I have no idea. I mean, we haven't discussed any kind of payments or anything which has been told what the punishment is. I don't know what happens.

I don't know. As his manager, will you try to contest it, or do you just take it on the chin and move on? I would probably, I would like to have a discussion about it at least, yes. A discussion about what? About define and how those numbers. came about and what happens to it and whatever, you know. But not in an open media forum or Twitter.

I'd like to have that as a private discussion. So when they told you about it, you didn't, the person who relayed the message wasn't the right person to talk to you? Why didn't you have that discussion? No, no, it was the right person to talk to it. It was the wrong time and the wrong medium. It's not like the guy was standing outside my door waiting for me to write him a check. You know what I mean?

He just called to inform us and we said, cool. You know, when everybody calms down, then we'll have a discussion. I get the impression, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Nate doesn't feel too badly about all this, because he did delete the tweet. No, actually, I deleted the tweet. He didn't delete anything. I deleted the tweet because we were asked by the UFC to delete the tweet.

So, you know, listen, you say something, you make a point. You know, you go on with it for a while, and, you know, at this point it would have just been just pouring salt on the one. I mean, the UFC asked us to delete, so I deleted it. It's already been printed, retweeted, double printed all over the place. So, you know, it really doesn't matter. But a day later, he wrote, you're still a sorry-ass B-I-T-C-H. Yeah, which is actually what he was trying to say in the first place,

but the Twitter 140-character thing wouldn't let him fit it in, so he shortened it for what he believed was the abbreviation of a sorry-ass B-I-T-C-H. But can you... Yeah, he doesn't... I mean, here's a thing. I don't think anybody Actually, I don't think anybody including Ryan Carraway discreet with

what he said at the time when he said and the content in which he was said was inappropriate. And I'm going to use appropriate language on your show because I want to show all those Twitter haters that I am not a complete retard and I do possess some vocabulary words that are not from the

Urban Dictionary. But anyway, he himself went on like inside of May or some show and he was like, yeah, I shouldn't have said it, you know, whatever. So, yeah, Nate doesn't feel remorse for what he said. I don't feel remorse for what he said. I don't feel remorse for defending what he said

or elaborating on what he said because it was not a homophobic statement. It was not intended to offend homosexuals who weren't even talking about homosexuals. You know, this, like I said, one can debate the multiple use of this term, and we can sit here and debate that in English language,

there's a lot of words that mean a lot of different things. But, you know, whatever. as it is, there wasn't intended to be used the way people are trying to twist it the way it was being used. So therefore, what else he has to feel bad about? The fact that he said

the guy shouldn't gloat over other person's issues and try to kiss ass to make up a point. I mean, did anybody ask Brian Carraway about his stance on marijuana? No. Somebody asked Brian Carraway anything. They just gave him the damn money

because he was chasing after Dana all over the Twitter begging for his goddamn bonus. So just, take your money and go away. But you could say just playing devil's advocate that maybe, even if it doesn't mean what it meant to you, universally it is known as something, and that could offend people. He could. Listen, I'm not saying it couldn't offend people.

Of course, it could offend people. But that was not his intent, no or mine. So how can I feel bad? You know, there's a thing about the apologies, right? Right. If we would have made a homophobic statement or a statement that bluntly and clearly, you know, was intended to insult homosexuals. That's one thing.

You come out and say, hey, you know what, I'm really sorry it hurt people. I didn't need to do that. But to me, this is just my philosophy, and I'm sure this is going to be disagreed by many people, but whatever, everybody's got their own way they think, and this is how I think, and actually this is how many things. The mere fact that there's a protocol for how to feel in this crisis situation implies its lack of sincerity, right? I mean, people are like, well, this is what you should have done.

You should have done, A, come up with an apology, B, you know, go find a homosexual in San Francisco and give a big hug, get it on video, and put it out there. Hey, the fact that there's an ABC to how to fix this means it's not sincere because somebody wrote a book on how to fix, you know, questionable PR situations. Well, it's not sincere. And he's got nothing to feel bad about it.

It wasn't talking about those people. and yes, somebody might have gotten hurt or offended by it. Yeah, I agree. That probably could have happened. Was there a better choice of words for future references? Yes, of course. But to apologize for something that you didn't intend to do, to me, it was stupid. It was a very big news story when these salaries for UFC on Fox 7 came out,

because people were very surprised that Nathan Diaz, at least on record, made just $15,000. Here he is getting fined $20,000. is something, I mean, we know that the UFC, the numbers that come out, they usually, well, in some cases, give a lot more. Are we not to look into this too much because for someone on paper, it seems like, wait, he's going to find 20, he only made 15, that seems like a lot. Yeah, no, no, don't worry about it. Okay. So he made more than 15 is what you're saying. Yeah.

Okay. You can't tell us how much, though? no, not unless you tell me unless you make. Well, you know, this is not about me, Mike. This is about you... No, I was just making a point. No, I know. I understand.

It's known fact that that anime purses are not fully disclosed. People get bits and pieces here and there, and those who want their stuff out there can do it. And if Nate wants his purse is disclosed, he could do it himself. But, you know, it's not my job. So what's interesting about this is, obviously, you know, like a good manager, you stuck up for your guy. And then you received the law.

lot of heat. Look at this guy the way he's sticking up for him. He's doing a bad job managing for someone like you sitting there who has a pretty impressive client list. And this came up, by the way, when you told me and I reported on UFC tonight that you didn't think it was in Roy's Roy Nelson's best interest to fight Daniel Cormier next, people were again criticizing you, questioning your managerial ability and your thought process. How annoying is it to have people attack you and question you and write articles about you when you're a guy who you know I don't know how old you are but you've been doing this for a very long time you have a very impressive client list uh roster I should say you know

how how frustrating is that um actually it's funny you said that because I'm watching my Twitter line right now and I'm getting hate as people are like you're moron you make it no sense it guess what you're still listening so makes no goddamn difference to me Ariel Juan is getting his ratings Anyway, back to your original question. It doesn't, I think in large volumes, it starts to get annoying. It doesn't upset me because I don't work for those people or with those people. I work with the athletes that I work with.

And I have a very close and very tight-knit relationship with my guys. You know, they're not my clients. every one of them is my friend. And here's how I look at it. Whether I agree, disagree, or whatever with their opinion, you're never going to give me on the record standing there and smashing one of my own guys. I mean, that's just retarded.

Are you crazy? Never. Why? So I can satisfy a few keyboard warriors, and it could be like, oh, Mike Kogan is so good. Look, he's just, you know, these guys are just all retarded that he works with. But look what I got.

This is not a popularity context. You know, I do what I do behind the scenes. And that's my job. and you are never going to hear me publicly, you know, chastise one of my guys. I don't care what they do. I mean, I may not say anything if it's something really horrible, but, you know, I didn't feel like anything that made it did was that horrendous.

And guess what? The worst part is this, and you guys don't see it, but between the private truths and text messages, dude, there's so much support for this you don't even know. because the truth is he said what was on the mind of all the other people out there that are just scared to say it. And then all these, I had a 15-year-old kid from Canada. Tell me I'm a moron and I don't know what I'm doing. 15 years old.

I'm like, you're not even allowed to have an opinion. Why are you even on Twitter? You're 15 years old. Go away. Go watch SpongeBob and shut the hell up. So, no, I don't take it personally because, you know, some, there was a few, like, websites or some bloggers or whatever from college. Colorado and other places that have four listeners that don't think that what I'm doing is right. Well, you got four listeners, dude.

You were doing it right. More people will be listening to you. So, shut up. I'm not losing any clients. You don't hear. Right. You know, you don't hear my guys going out there doing interviews going, hey, this Mike Ogan guy, he's, you know, he's cool, we're not behind this shit. No.

So it's all good. Don't worry about what I do. Some have questioned the 90-day suspension. Does that affect him in any way? Anyway, was he supposed to fight in the next 90 days or so? I don't know. Obviously, only the UFC knows if he was supposed to fight, but now he's not going to fight. Okay.

You know, either way, he's not going to fight. You know, and that's, you know, it is, like I said, it is what it is. At this point, you know, these are not the mediums. I don't think the media is the medium to discuss this or to address this, but I have a lot of questions about all of it. So, let's see what happens. You know, in his last fight, it wasn't his best performance. performance, he talked about moving up to 170 before the fight.

Is that where he's going to fight next, or is he going to stick around in 155? Yeah, I think we're going to go to 170. You think you're going to move up, really? You think that makes sense, considering how he's done a 155 as opposed to 170? I'm questioning your managerial skills right now. Yeah, well, you know what? The thing is this, he's a big guy. He's not a little 155.

And it's not easy for him to make 155. And it doesn't come from that wrestling, weight-cutting, weight-cutting kind of a culture, where he just pops his ass in a sauna and comes out 20 pounds lighter. So for him to cut weight 155 is very, very difficult. And what happened is one of the things people don't realize, right, if you look at the guys he has fought, and look at how much they have fought in the same time frame that he has fought,

he's fought more than all of them put together. You understand what I'm saying? Like, if you look at the time span during which he's, He's fought, both wins and losses. I think he's had like seven fights for three, like, almost the last time Graham-Manert fought, right? Like, it's been a while. He's getting ready to fight now.

So for him to do these back-to-back weight cuts is almost impossible. I mean, it's beyond draining because he starts to watch what he eats from day one. And then a month out, he damn near each air and fucking trees. And it's just not healthy. He can't train at a full potential. It just doesn't make any sense. And when you look at 170, yeah, the guys are stronger and bigger, but he's bigger too. You know what I mean?

If he goes to 170, he's going to put on some muscle and it's going to be a little bigger. And plus, you know, just because there's a few really strong big guys in 170, that doesn't mean that, you know, he can't be there. You know what I mean? Doesn't mean he's going to try to stand there and measure his strength against their strength. You know what I mean? There's strategies. There's ways to beat people without, you know, you know. letting them engage their physical attributes, right?

I mean, Carlos kind of is not a huge 170 guy. You know, he fights at 170. I think Nate will do just fine. Who makes sense for him next? At 170? Yeah. I really don't know. I mean, we haven't gone that far.

And before I say who makes sense for him, I think, you know, I need to talk to him first. I need to talk to the UFC because it's their, ultimately it's their decision. But they're going to want to make the fights. We're just kind of try to figure out how to beat that particular opponent. I know you rep Nate and not his brother Nick, but spill the beans for us. What's going on with this war promotion that Nick is supposedly starting in June? What can you tell us about it?

I don't have a clue. I don't have a slightest idea. Was Nate trying to get released so that he can go fight for his brother's promotion? No. What retard wrote that? I think it was Andrew Simon from Axis TV. He wrote that. He was like, oh, I think Nate was trying to get released.

He can go fight in a war. No. He wasn't trying to get released. He was just trying to voice his opinion about a fellow fighter who made a poor judgment call on gloating on somebody else's misfortune. By the way, for someone like yourself, fans may remember you from the FEG days, from doing color commentary for access. Now you're fully into this MMA manager thing.

you done working for promotions and all this stuff? Do you like being... You know what? I started. I started as a manager. I never worked for promotions. I started as a manager. And I managed Hoyt, Gracie, and Hoyle Gracie, Orde dego Gracie.

I managed Chalind at one point. I mean, I used to manage guys. And what happened is when Royce was retiring, FECU was trying to make a run into the U.S. And they were like, hey, why don't you help us get into the U.S.? Right? You know what? I'm glad you asked me that because now that bothers me.

There's a lot of people out there that are writing the fact that I'm a retard and, you know, I never did shit for FECD and I'm just a complete moron. That bothers me, okay, because that is completely untrue. So I started, so I said, okay, I'll help you guys out. And the only reason I actually got engaged with them is because I was able to stay in the U.S. There was no office here. You know what I mean? I don't have to answer to anybody. I was pretty much let to believe that I'll be able to do what I want.

and within six months, I got K1 live on TV, right? With HDNet, with Andrew Simon, we talked to Andrew Simon. And Andrew Simon was all down for dream because it was an in-May promotion, but he wasn't really that big on K-1. He was kind of like, man, I don't know, I don't know. I was like, dude, this is the bomb. You got to put the sign. You got the sign.

You know, and I argue with him, and I got K-1 at the time the most lucrative U.S. contract they have ever seen in their lives. And we're not going to disclose numbers, but believe me, it was a really good contract. And fans in the U.S. were able to see FK1 live for the first time, you know, with the World Grand Prix series that started, I think it was in 2008. And that was the last thing I was able to do for FVG period. Those guys are the biggest bunch of morons ever born on planet Earth. They squandered and pissed away millions and millions of dollars on the most retort. Here, let me tell you this one.

This one, nobody knows. ESPN, not ESPN 1, ESPN 2 or some of the. ESPN was ready to sign a deal with us to put World Grand Prix series on prime time, in prime time, on ESPN. What they would do is they would do one-hour segment shows, right? So like the World Grand Prix is a four-hour show. They would cut it up in one hours and show them every Friday and then rerun them like a hell of times, right? And FUG, I mean, and ESPN said, listen, we're not going to pay you a license fee, you know, which is customary to get for your content. But what we'll do is pay for all post-production, right?

So you just give us a raw feed, we'll pay for the feed, and then we'll just do post-production. And I was doing backflips, and I'm talking to the refugee guys, and they're like, what? First of all, who the hell is ESPN? And second of all, what do you mean, no license fee? And I'm like, are you people retarded? I mean, I could have gone to Red Bull and got a $2 million a year. sponsorship, right, to be on the canvas. And there would have been more money than they've ever seen.

I mean, just one after another after another. This guy should just fucking repartive. Simple as that. I think you... I think you use that word a little too much. The one and only thing I have ever done... I'm sorry, is this a family show? I'll phone tell.

No, but... The one and only thing I have ever been able to do for, for, in all the time I was there, is bring that content to the TV. So all you morons out there that are chast... I'm a moron. The only reason you got to watch that stuff live is because of my efforts. And only me and Andrew Simon know

how much arguing I had to do with them just to get it on TV. I mean, they were like, it was just ridiculous. So, yeah, I don't have I don't ever want to be associated working with any promoters. Not because everybody's a moron, but just I don't want to do it. I mean, it was never my thing anyway. You know what I mean?

Like I said, I only got into it because I thought I was going to be able to bring this stuff here and really expand it because I thought it was a great product. And I just realized that it's run by complete morons, and they ran it into the ground. So now Roy Nelson, it appears he's not going to be fighting. I know there was nothing finalized, but it sounded like he was a potential replacement if Mark Hunt couldn't get into the country from what I was hearing. What do you think is next for Roy Nelson?

Next for Roy Nelson is a new contract, our contract's up. So he has finally graduated from the Ultimate Fighter Conference. We have graduated from the old fighter contract into the big league. Now, is he a free agent? Is he talking to other organizations? No, no, no, no, he's not a free agent. Okay, you just... We have, you know, we have whatever... No, he's not.

So he's sticking around with the UFC, who do you want him to fight next? You said you didn't want him to fight Daniel, now that he's not fighting this weekend... Well, here's... Here's a thing about the Daniel fight, right? Daniel thing, right? And there was a big, big misunderstanding, and all these idiots came out there and no, like, oh, this guy's a re-party, it doesn't make any sense. he said, Daniel Cormiere made a very clear statement before he was Frank Mirre fight. He said, I'm going down with 205, and then I'm going down with 205, and I'm going to fight John Jones, hopefully sometime in October. That was a statement he made.

So at the time when they brought up Daniel Colmier, which actually was brought up kind of, you know, Dana said at the press conference, we want to run to fight Mark Hunt, period. Well, like, okay, cool, we'll play Mark Hunt. And then some media guy jumps up and goes, hey, Daniel Colmier just tweeted, blah, blah, blah, which Daniel Comerner never actually tweeted because I checked. He didn't? I think he did. I saw that. Does someone do it for him? I didn't know. What he tweeted was, okay, Dana, if that's the fight you want, let's make it happen.

But the media guy said, Daniel Comey to tweet, he said he'll fight him, which he never did. So then he goes, oh, there you go. There's another fight, Daniel Cormiere. So what I said was, if Daniel Cormiere's, he's planning on going to 205 and fight John Jones, it doesn't make any sense to fight him. I don't care if his rank number two or not, because he's getting ready to leave the division, right? getting into bounds. So why fight it? Let's fight the people that are still there, like Junior Dos Santos, Bigfoot Silva,

and Mark Hunt, you know, whoever. I mean, you know, just people that are that are up there hanging around the top tier. And then everybody just jumped on me and are like, oh, you are an idiot. What do you mean? It doesn't make sense to fight Daniel. Hey, Daniel Cormey is staying in the heavyweight and he's going to be a contender for the belt and beating him means you have to fight him to get to the belt. Hell yeah, let's fight him.

Daniel going to me, no problem. Okay, but that's old news now. Do you think they are going to match him up against Daniel because it seemed like Dana was into it? Yeah, that's fine. I mean, that's what, that's what... Have they talked to you about that? Well, no.

I mean, right now, you know, I think everybody was, everybody was, you know, kind of concentrating on get more content over here. So, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like, who's going to talk about a fight that's way out there? Because Daniel says he doesn't want to fight until like August or whatever, so in the way it's not happening. All right.

I think we did a lot of good work here. I appreciate it. Probably just pissed off a whole lot more people. Yes. Upset them. Yep. 39 replies already. The Brits don't like me.

Yeah. We did good work. Mike, I appreciate it. Always good to talk to you. Mike Kogan. If you want to talk to Mike, by the way, his Twitter is Twitter.com slash Mike Kogan. Very, very easy to find.

And he responds to everyone, even if you are a 15-year-old from Canada, right? I did. I told the 15-old from Canada to get a real life, watch some SpongeBob, and then I blocked it. Oh, you blocked him. I didn't think you were the blocking people left. Right. Oh.

If a person makes an intelligent discussion, I will reply, but he just straight and hating, I've been blocking people lately. I just, you know, why deal with it? Blocking, to me, is like punching your face. Like, if you were standing in front of me, I would just slap you. But because I can't slap you, I just block you. So it's not blocking like I'm running from you.

It's more like I just slapped you. And once I slap people, there's no reason to talk about him anymore. So we're done. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it. Thanks. There he is. Mike Hogan, stopping by MMA manager, extraordinaire.

We, of course, do not share some of his vocabulary choices, but there he is. The real deal. the genuine article himself, Mike Hogan. Now, let us move along, and let's take some questions. In around 20 minutes or so, we will be joined by Rory McDonald, who, of course, faces Jake Ellenberger, UFC on Fox, number 8, July 27th in Seattle, Washington. That's a huge fight for both men.

Looking forward to get Rory on. After Rory, we'll be talking about round two of the Ricks Picks Invitational, my friends. It is getting hot and heavy, looking forward to that. First, do we have some questions, Mr. Rick. Yeah, let's do website questions. first. And by the way, what about this new little location you guys are in over there?

The new booth, you mean? Yeah. Let's take a look. Let's see if we can get it on camera. How's it look? Honestly, I can't see because there's a delay. Also, I hear an echo. Oh, there are you. Whoa. I hear an echo. Yeah, give me one second. Wow, look at you. That's nice. There's Mike. Freshly shaven. We've got

Will and back of you. It's a whole new vibe. Is it Is it stifling in there? What's the air circulation like? The air circulation is good. The vent is not above me anymore, so I don't sound like I'm on a spaceship. Well, you look great. Thank you, sir. All right, let's get to questions.

All right. First one up. As I said, we're doing website questions first. Sure. The Nate Diaz situation, this is apropos. Did the UFC disclose the fine and suspension for Nate Diaz because it was a gay rights issue? If Nate didn't use that one word in his tweet, do you think he has a point? Well, um,

Here's the thing. I don't know if it was because of a gay rights issue. That's an offensive word. It may not mean what Nate Diaz. Nate Diaz's meaning of it may not be what the rest of the world, or at least the rest of the United States, North America, how they use it. But a lot of people do use it in a very derogatory way, and it is an offensive word.

So the UFC with a new code of conduct, They had to send a message, and a lot of people predicted this would happen. I wasn't quite sure which way they would go, but look, if you're in the public eye, you can't go around using offensive words like that that can be hurtful, that mean very bad things to a lot of people. It may not mean that to you, but for the majority of society, it means a very derogatory thing. So why use that word? You could have said what you wanted to say using a thousand different other words. words. Why even use it? You could have said it. No one would have even said a thing about it. Do I think he has a point? Look, if you were given a bonus, if you were put in that position,

would you turn down the money? I don't know. Mr. Rick, would you turn down the money? He's not even there. End of the day, I feel like people, for whatever reason, Brian Carraway rubs people the wrong way. And that's fine. And you may have your reasons for that. and quite frankly I can understand why some people don't like him for a multitude of reasons whose girlfriend is, their relationship, thinks he's said in the past, the Ronda Rousey feud, he has given you ammunition. And as I said on the MMA beat, I think there was a better way, even retweeting, even not overtly campaigning for it, just do it privately.

Just call up to you see, hey, I got you up to 65. He was the one that got them up from 50 to 65. I got a great submission on that card. If you're not giving it to him, what about giving it to me? Same thing would have happened, in my opinion. There's a better way, a probably more classy way of going about it. But end of the day, what he was being criticized for was taking the money. And I don't think anyone in his position, given how much he makes, would have turned it down.

Are you in there? Yeah, I'm here. I asked you a question. Say again? If you were in Brian Carraway's position, Would you accept the money? Yes. Right.

No, one's turning down that money. No, I wouldn't turn down the money. I think the criticism came from the way he went about getting it. Absolutely. I wouldn't be campaigning for it, but I would not turn down money. Right. Our next question. This is also, now this is about Carraway.

I know this is kind of old news now, but did everyone forget that Carraway threatened to punch Ronda Rousey's teeth down her throat and break her arm? I don't condone smoking marijuana, but I'm definitely against guys threatening women. Regardless of the fact that Ronda would destroy Brian, he still went that far. He crossed the line and receives zero repercussions for it. Yet Healy puts on an amazing performance and tests for marijuana and is stripped of $130,000 or whatever. And Brian, the woman Threatener, received $65,000 of it. Doesn't seem all that right.

Well, here's the thing about that. When he did that, when he said that, different UFC, no code of conduct, different time. We can't go back and correct everything that happened. Was that despicable? Yes. Did he cross the line? Yes. That is why I maintain today that one of the top five biggest fights that the UFC could put on.

Without a down, I'm not even joking right now, is Brian Carraway versus Ronda Rousey. You remember the Battle of the Sexes? Bobby Riggs versus Bill and Gene King. This happened in the 70s. It was a tennis match. Houston Astrodome. It was a massive event here in the United States, North America. Worldwide, it was a huge deal.

Male versus female tennis match. I know it wouldn't happen. That probably wouldn't happen. Even if it was an exhibition. Rhonda Rousey versus Brian Carroll. would be one of the most fascinating bouts in combat sports history. Combat sports history, it would be incredible. And I would pay $100 to watch that on pay-per-view.

Forget about the live ticket that I would pay. On pay per view, I would pay $100 to watch that. I would be fascinated by it. So all that being said, you can't go backwards. What he said was wrong. At this point, and for the record, I asked Pat Healy to come on the show. He said he wanted to talk to the UFC about the situation. He's yet to talk to them.

They had a very busy week in Brazil. So he politely declined, and I respect that. What about Carraway versus the subject of our next question? But I just wanted to say one thing. Stop going backwards. Carraway has said some bad things. He's crossed the line. But what he did back then, you can't use that against what happened now.

It's a different UFC. Okay, so let's go to something more current. Yeah, yeah. Why is everyone so silent on the Carraway Zengano elbow incident? I know these are just accusations, and the timing of the story breaking is coincidental, but the UFC responded rather quickly after Nate Diaz's tweet when he tweeted

the F word. Why wouldn't the UFC comment on this that they are looking into some big accusations? All the MMA websites I visit are pretty silent about it as well. This story, what happened here, Bloody Elbow interviewed Katzengano. She said that

Brian Carraway elbowed her at the Wands prior to her fight against Misha Tate, Brian's girlfriend. This happened on a Friday night, and I think what's different about this situation as opposed to an ATIAS, the NAPS situation, it was a concrete tweet, it happened, you can read it, you can see it. This is a he said, she said situation. Do we not know that UFC is investigating it?

We'll find out probably fairly soon. But you want the UFC to react just based off one interview. It's very alarming. It's unfortunate. And if he did do it, it would probably, result in some kind of suspension fine, whatever. But this is just coming from one side. So a lot of people are sort of bagging on Brian Carraway now.

You know, Michelle Uwold said that he took PDs. This situation came out just hours later. The U.C. can't just go off of what one side is saying. And I know Kat's husband went on the UG and did an interview, you know, kind of exactly saying the same thing. That's a very alarming thing. but I don't see how both situations are the same. Nate Diaz put out a tweet.

It's there. You can read it. This is a story that happened over a month ago. They have to investigate. They have to talk to people. They have to do what they have to do. And why the MMA websites are silent about it, I'm not quite sure. I mean, it is an interview that happened on a Friday.

I did see that there was some back and forth between Misha's publicist John Fuller and Bloody Elbow writers. I don't Honestly, I don't know why it was not reported. I mean, many interviews happen that aren't picked up. Usually in a situation like this, unless it turns into a really big deal like the Matt Mitroon incident,

unless your website did it, they're not going to write about it. You understand what I'm saying? Unless you're like a blog and aggregator, I just don't see another website, a competitor. That's just the way MMA websites are. And we could get into something about that later, but I just don't see them picking it up

unless it turns into a very big deal where they're forced to talk about it. Our next question. If Graham Maynard beats T.J. Grant, do you think he poses any new problems for Benson Henderson? He did come the closest of anyone to putting Frankie Edgar away. I wonder. I mean, obviously he has great wrestling. He says he's a new fighter now. His striking, you know, he's obviously become a much better striker. He hasn't finished anyone in a very long time, maybe the third or fourth fight. and you look at who Benson Henderson has beat as of late,

Gil Melendez, Nathan Diaz, Frankie Edgar. Other than Edgar as champion, and even as of late in the UFC, hasn't fought a pure, pure wrestler like Gray Manor. So he does pose problems, but, you know, Benson Henderson has great take down the fence, very good on the ground, good off his back, good jiu-jitsu. I'm not sure if he's the toughest matchup for Benton Henderson right now.

but I'm very curious to see how Gray looks. A year later, says he's mentally focused now, healthy, all that stuff. A year later, how does he look? I'm very curious about this fight. Toughest fight, of course, for T.J. Grant and the UFC. This is our last question. While you answer this, I'm going to try and get our next guest on the line. It's a little early.

Okay, fine. If you want, sure. This is about foreign judging. We often hear people, such as Jamie Varner, who called Brazil corrupt, complain that if a fight is judged unfairly and held abroad, then the judges are being swayed by the fighter's nationality. But if the fight is in the U.S., it's just considered a bad call. Do you think there is validity in people saying foreign judges can be biased?

I don't think so, because if you look at the judges, a lot of those are American. They may get influenced by the crowd, especially if you look at the Brazilian crowds. They're so pro-Brazilian fighter. And when a Brazilian fighter does something, they react. act obviously a lot more favorably than if the non-Brazilian fighter does something. So they may get swayed by that. But for the most part, I mean, a lot of these people aren't from Brazil. So why would they play favorites other than if the crowd, you know, is influencing them? So I don't want to, I never, I never really got that in the UFC, particularly the home cooking thing.

The only way home cooking comes into effect is if they are. influenced by the crowd. A lot of these guys are coming from other places. They're coming from Europe. They're coming from North America. I don't really see them having a bias, so to speak. All right, we'll finish up the Twitter questions after the Roy McDonald interview. But in the meantime, while New York Rick tries to track down Mr. McDonald, let me give you some stats from Fight Metric because some very interesting things happen on Saturday night. This is from our good friends over at Fightmetric. Francisco Trinaldo is just the second fighter in UFC history to earn an arm triangle submission beginning from half guard.

The other? Who is it? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Rick Story. He did it against Brian Foster at UFC 103. Story's arm triangle actually ended in full guard, but the technique was applied while

in half guard. Pretty amazing. Trinado getting the win in half guard. Another one. With four takedowns landed against Hakran Diaz, Nick the Carney Lentz, past Frankie Edgar for 9th place all time with 45 career takedowns. The fighters ranging from fourth place to 10th place all time are separated by less than 10 takedowns total, putting Lentz just a handful of takedowns behind the likes of Randy Couture,

Rashad Evans, and Carl Peresian. Lentz has scored 18 takedowns in just three fights at 145 pounds. Here's some amazing stats about Fabio Maldonado, who picked up a win on 7. Saturday, Fabo Maldonado's official statistics after five UFC fights. Here we go. Second all-time in significant striking accuracy at 50. Eyesite sucks 63.5%. And first among light heavyweights, minimum five fights and 350 significant attempts. First is Anderson Silva at 67.8%. He's second all-time in accuracy. That's amazing. Third all-time and significant strikes landed per minute with 5.7, he's first among light heavyweights, minimum five fights. First all time, in proportion

of significant strikes that go to the body, landing 41.1% of his significant strikes there, and the average UFC fighter lands only 19.7 of their significant strikes to the body. I love a good body shot. There's nothing more sexy, if you will, probably sexy not being the right word, but just nothing more captivating than a good body shot, in my opinion. What else? second most significant strikes ever landed in a fight. He hit Holed, Roger Holed, who he defeated with 56 body shots Saturday night in Brazil. The most significant body shots ever landed in a UFC fight is 60, landed by Steve Steinbless at UFC on versus number two. Steve Steinbez. And one more Vitor Belfort's knockout's knockout was his 12th finish in the UFC. And he now,

gained sole possession of third place all time. As far as finishes are concerned, he sits behind only Anderson Silva, 14 finishes, and Matt Hughes, 13 finishes. Belfort is the first fighter in UFC history to finish two consecutive opponents with a headcake, and he is just the fifth fighter to earn two UFC finishes stemming from a kick. The others, Anthony Pettus, Anthony Johnson, Eve Edwards, and Paul Taylor. There are your stats, courtesy of our good friends over at fight metric and we appreciate them hooking us up next week I will remind you while we try to get

while we try to get Roy McDonald on the phone it is Memorial Day here in the United States but we are doing a show so no time off in June one of the I think the final Monday in June there will not be a show but we will cross that bridge when we get to it but next Monday could be shaping up to be a very interesting one. Don't want to get too excited about it, but it could be shaping up to be a very interesting one. Of course, we are coming off UFC 160, and it could potentially be an interesting one, but we'll talk about that later. But all you need to know right now is that there will be a show next Monday. Now, UFC 160, as I mentioned, and in case you're wondering, we will delve more into the whole Vitor Bellfort, T.R.T. Post,

Post-Fite press conference, all that stuff that I was talking about yesterday, once we get to the Twitter questions after Rory. But UFC 160, that's this weekend. Kane versus Antonio Silva, Junior Dos Santos versus Mark Hunt, James Tehuna, versus Glover Tshara, Tj Grant versus Gray Maynor, Donald Serroney versus KJ Nunes. I got to tell you, those four bottom pay-per-view fights, to me, more intriguing than the main event, only because, as I mentioned, we saw that just a year ago. one of the more bizarre UFC title fights only because it happened just 365 days ago, essentially. Since then, Bigfoot Silva with impressive wins

over Travis Brown and recently Alster Overeem. But still, that was a year ago. That was a year ago. I mean, it's a very dominant win by Kane Velasquez to then have to replicate just a year later. very dominant. And it was a very dominant loss. Bloody loss. Remember that second the fight started, take down, cut them open, roughed them up, and now a year later, they're doing it again. And the

undercard is interesting as well. Mike Pyle versus Rick Story. Dennis Bermuda's returns against Max Holloway. Colton Smith versus Robert Whitaker, two winners of the ultimate fighter, both the smashes and here in the United States. I like this fight. Habib Nirmagamadeov against Trouhio. That's a very interesting fight. And then on Facebook, beginning at 6.35 p.m. Eastern, Nishon Borel versus Wonderboy Thompson. Brian Bowles, finally returning. You heard him on this show a couple weeks back against George Rupp. And then Estevan Payan versus Jeremy Stevens. A very interesting card, a stacked one, and one that is pretty low to. What is that? Five plus four, plus three. That is 12 fights on Saturday night at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. And we will be there, of course, with our usual coverage.

beginning Thursday. Now, on July 27th, it is UFC on Fox 8. As they mentioned earlier in the show, those tickets went on sale late last week, and one of the big fights on that card is Jake Ellenberger versus our next guest at this time, Rory McDonald. Hey, Rory, how are you? I can't hear him. Rory, are you there? Sorry about that. Guys, I see him, but I don't hear him. This has happened before. We apologize for this. If you can hear me, Rory, you're looking great as always. We will fix that technical difficulty, and guys, let me know when we can actually hear Rory. As I mentioned, he's fighting Jake Ellenberger. It's a very important fight at 170 pounds.

The winner could very well set himself up. You know, there's another interesting fight at Walter Waite on that card as well. Robbie Loller versus Tarek Safedin. Johnny Hendricks, of course, expected to fight George St. Pierre later on this year. We found out recently that Damien Maya is going to be fighting Josh Kosteck. That will be UFC 163 just a week later. So the welterweight division, by the time August rolls around, will be a whole lot more clear to us. And if you look at it right now, you can make a very strong case that the winner of this fight

will be the number one contender at 170 pounds, especially when you consider what both men did in their last fight. I see Rory back. Can I hear him? What the heck, guys? I don't hear him. I hear me I hear you Rory Okay you're kind of going in and out

But I think I got you now Say hello to it for me Hi how are you Hey Rory it's good to hear from you All right Well I want to know first and foremost How's the neck? How's the back? You had to pull out of that fight in March

How are you feeling now? My back and neck is none of that shit anymore It doesn't bother me at all anymore Did you have to have any kind of surgery or anything for this? No. It's like rehab and exercises and trying to balance up my body again. Are you doing, I know the fight is still, you know, ways away.

We're kind of, what, two months away now. But again, I'll go back to the question I've talked to you about it in the past. Oh, he disappeared. Hey, guys, let's just do phone. Can we just do phone for this? Hey, Roy, we're just going to call you on your phone, okay? A lot of funky things going on here. I just want to do phone.

I want to talk to the man. ask them questions. I have a lot of questions ask Rory, and it's not working. It must be that Wi-Fi over in Montreal. It's a little archaic, as they say. Will, are we going to the phone? All right, all right. Well, we'll go to the phone a lot easier, a lot less stress.

But good to hear that he is feeling 100%. We'll get him in a second. And then after that, as I mentioned, round two of the Rick's Picks Invitational will reveal the matchups, and we'll get your Twitter questions. Do not worry about that. We had to break it up a little bit, but we will answer them, and I look forward to hearing what you guys weigh in on this week, because the last few weeks, my friends, have been pretty damn good. I'd say for as long as we've

been doing the Twitter questions, these are the best. I don't know why. And I wondered, is Rick finally picking good questions? Is he finally doing his due diligence? Is he finally doing or taking enough time to weed through the knowledge? I'd get to the good questions. I wonder. The answer is no. No. Shouldn't you be talking to Roy McDonald? What's going on? Check your chat, bud. Well, no, there's nothing here. Is he on?

Hey, Rory. How are you? Okay, now you sound like you're underwater. What's going on? Where are you calling us from? Are you in Montreal? I'm in my house, and I'm calling from my phone. Okay, here we go. Now you sound great. Good to have you on the show. Oh, yeah. Good to be on. So I just want to know, what are you going to do differently in training for this fight? Because you've been open about this, about doing it your way. Can you give us some of the secrets how this will be different so you don't get into this predicament again?

I'm just going to try to train similar as I did for the fight against BJ. I think I was just a bit too anxious when I was announced that I was going to fight Carlos again. So I just try to relax a little bit and just train smart. I try to be a big muscle head, you know what I mean? Like caveman. Yeah, I don't know. I just sometimes I over-trained and I just got to just settle down, I guess, sometimes. Is that all coming from you, or do you think there are people telling you to do this?

No, I just have a lot of pressure on myself. I don't know. I don't know really wouldn't spell it, but. because I've been training for so long and then, you know, I have a certain standard for myself, I guess, and, yeah, I don't know. I'm just, I'm still learning my body.

I'm growing. I still feel like I'm getting bigger and crink still, so it's, my body's always changing and stuff now, so, uh, I was like, I'm going to puberty or something. That was not stupid to say, but, you know, I'm still growing.

So, I mean, I feel, feel like, I mean, uh, like, my recovery is always different, like, this year from last year. And, you know what I mean? It's like, it's always, uh, it's always hard to tell, like, I always have to adjust, you know what I mean? You're getting to be an old man. Yeah, exactly. I'm not 16 anymore.

Um, okay, so, so, so you figured it out and, and, and you feel like you you figured out the formula, but you mentioned the Condit fight and how anxious you were for that fight. put too much pressure. You wanted that fight. You called him out on national television. You wanted to avenge that loss. Are you bummed that you aren't fighting him next? Yeah. Yeah, but I think, I mean, there's a good fight too because, you know, Jake is on a winning streak and he's in a good spot. And, I mean, there's a good fight for me. I mean, Carlos has lost a couple, but I'm pretty sure that I'll get to fight Carlos this year, I hope, you know, after, uh, I'm,

after I fight Jake. So you're still not over that. Well, I mean, it's, I just, it'd be nice to, it'd be nice to, to fight him again. You know, the fight was just so close. And I feel like, you know, I didn't, we didn't get a solid winner out of it. I mean, I still have fight in me. And, you know, I think if I, if one of us gets finished in the next fight, then maybe the hatchet,

to be buried. You know what I mean? I'm very competitive. I feel like I'm better than what I showed that night. So, yeah, I guess it's just not over it. Were you rooting for him to beat Johnny Hendricks so that maybe you could be in this position? You are okay.

Yeah, I mean, I like Carlos. I think he's a great fighter, man. A lot of respect for that guy. And, you know, he's one of my favorite guys to watch. And I personally thought he won the fight, and he was going to win the fight if it was going to be five-round four. fight. But, yeah, I don't know.

So at this point, you feel like at some point you're going to get him, but you're fighting Jake Ellenberger next. Did you even campaigned? Did you try to tell the UFC, yeah, Jake is a good fighter and all, it makes sense, but I just really want to get that fight out of the way. Did you try to convince them otherwise? No. The UFC wanted me to fight Jake, and I was comfortable with that, so I just took that fight. Jake has said some interesting things about you. lately. He told this I thought

most interesting. He did an interview with the MMA Digest and he said, I'm not really sold on him. In my opinion, the only top 10 guy in our division, he's fought, he's lost to, and that's Carlos Condit. I think he's definitely a young up-and-comer, but nothing special. It's still surprising to me. For some reason, some people in this industry think

he's a top five guy, which I don't even think he's a top 10 guy. He went on to say, but for some reason he has a lot of hype. It must be because he trains with GSP and he trains at that whatever, he trains at that gym. I think I fought and defeat a tougher opponents in my UFC career than Rory McDonald. What do you make of that?

What I make of it, when I hear stuff like that, I just feel like he's trying to build himself up for confidence. You know what I mean? Self-conscious people have to sometimes build themselves up to give them self-confidence, you know? And, you know, maybe he's right. He has some points about that I haven't really fought anybody in the top ten. But, I mean, you've got to get there somehow.

I mean, I've been winning, so I've got to fight top ten guys eventually, right? And he just, he happens to be one of those guys now. So I guess he'll be my breakthrough fight. When you hear that, when you read that, does it make you think that he's looking past you? That he doesn't really feel like you're a threat? Maybe. Maybe he is, or maybe he's talking bullshit. I don't know.

because he's not that kind of guy, right? He's not a big trash talker. No? Okay, I don't know. I never really listened to his interviews, but, yeah, I don't know. I don't really care, really. I mean, at the end of the day, it's just going to be a fight. I really don't have any beef with him.

I don't really know the guy. I like watching his fights. I mean, we're professional fighters, and we sign a contract to fight each other, and that's what's going to happen at the end of the day. and I think I'm better than him, and he thinks he's better than me, so we're going to settle it.

You don't strike me as the type that listens to many MMA interviews. No, never. You're not... Are you even... You know, John Jones always talks about how he watches everything, YouTube, all that stuff. Are you that kind of guy?

Do you watch a lot of stuff? No, I kind of... I used to, when I was a lot younger. I was, like, super into it and, like, really addicted to, like, you know, studying everything and listening to everybody. these points of view and this and that.

And then I just kind of got overwhelmed with how much stuff is out there now. I mean, there's just endless posts and endless videos and endless interviews and sports gotten so big that I can't even keep up. And you know what I mean? I just, I try to just, I just have to step back a little bit and just, because I don't really like all that stuff. I just kind of like the training and I like the martial arts side of it and learning and all that.

that side. I didn't really... I don't really like the interviews and all that. You don't like listening to the interviews or doing the interviews, or both? Sometimes both. I mean, it goes both ways. I mean, sometimes there's good interviews. Like, I like talking to you.

Thank you. You're educated, and you know what you're talking about, and you don't ask stupid questions. And, you know, but there's some guys that are really uneducated. in the media in MMA and it gets quite frustrating and annoying having to talk to those people but it's part of it I guess now

and listening to it I mean sometimes there's I love listening to Chail Sonan's interviews I think that guy's great I think he's entertaining and then there's some people that I don't listen so it goes both ways it's funny that you mentioned Chale

because in the last three or so years Chale has really reinvented himself. I don't know if you remember Chale fighting in Bodog and WEC. He was a completely different guy. And now he's reinvented. And I think what he has done honestly is one of the great

stories in MMA history, a great turnaround. I mean, he has reinvented himself and he has cashed in more so than anyone. Got two title fights back to back here. Three in total. He has a great gig with Fox. You know the story. And it's interesting that you mention him because there are some people who think you've kind of done the same

thing. Because when you came into the UFC, You were not like the guy you are now. You've changed a little bit. Your style, your interviews, et cetera. Have you taken notes from Chale, and have you reinvented yourself? No, I think my thing, I just kind of, I've just grown more comfortable with it. And I guess I came into it pretty young. I mean, I've been growing and changing stuff, you know, my personality.

And, you know, I guess my style, too. I guess you mentioned that. So, I don't know. I'm still, I'm not being fake or anything. It's just, uh... This is who you are. I'm just trying to, yeah, I'm just trying to talk honestly when I get on the interviews and stuff.

Before I was, I was kind of nervous. I didn't really know how to approach it. You know, it was all new to me. It's all brand new, you know what I mean? So that's it. It's just a little more comfortable with it, man. Do you realize that you have a sort of brutally honest stuff? and your delivery is very different than a Chale Sunen,

because you're somewhat monotone, but it's so honest what is coming out of your mouth, and you kind of don't really care the way it sounds or the way it's digested, and for some people, that's somewhat refreshing. Do you understand why people are captivated by this? I guess so, yeah. I mean, because it's not, I guess I don't talk, like,

a hockey player interview, you know what I mean, where it's, like, the same old... Those are the worst. answers. Yeah, it's like the worst crap ever. I'm just trying to talk to you and just like person to person. I'm just not thinking about people listening. I mean, I don't know. I just think maybe people can relate to that a little bit better. Do you find it offensive when people compare you to the American psycho call you the Canadian psycho? Do you like that or do you find it offensive? I don't. No, I don't. It's weird. I just don't really put much thought into it. Have you seen the comic strips and all that stuff?

The Nick Diaz one? Well, no, there's one. Yeah. Is it with Nick Diaz? Yeah, maybe it is. I've seen one when I was like, I was mad at them for... Yes, yes, yes, yes. You've seen all that. Yeah, I've seen it. It was weird. I didn't laugh. I didn't laugh. I mean, some people thought it was really funny.

Yeah. They liked it, but I mean, I just didn't, like, honestly, I'm good with humor and practical jokes on me, but I just thought it was, like, kind of not funny. They could have done something way better. I'm all good for all that humor, but I just didn't find that one particularly that funny. Have you seen the movie American Psycho? Yeah. Do you feel like there are similarities between you and that character?

No. You don't think, you don't see, because I think a great nickname for you would be the A fascinating Psycho, even if you don't see it, I think you should run with it. No, I'm not into it. Has anyone tried to get you to run with it? Uh, I mean, no, I've just heard it a lot. I don't know. No one's really like, you should change a nickname. I think you're the first one. Uh, you like Aries better. Yeah. That's interesting. I don't really care. It's just, like, my attitude. Like,

a nickname is just, like, the way I looked at it was, like, you know, it's not like my personality, like, every day. It's just more like when I'm in the cage, like, it's just like my attitude, like an alter ego or something, name, you know what I mean? It was just kind of like something like that. I don't feel like a crazy businessman, psycho killer every day, in the cage or anything, so I can't relate to that. You know it was incredible, though.

I don't know if you remember. this, but when you were getting your hands wrapped at UFC on Fox 5 against BJ, you were still wearing your suit? Yeah, I just got in from the bus ride and Stitch came in and needed to do the hands, and I just took off my jacket and hands right there.

That's... I hate to say, but that's a very American-Syco-like thing to do. Yeah, I was the first one, apparently, he's ever done that I was still wearing a suit. I don't know, it was kind of like, I didn't have time to change out of it or whatever, so I don't know.

You keep giving us material to, you keep fostering this. I don't know if the joke is on us. I feel like you're kind of sitting back and laughing. I mean, everyone was talking about it all week long, and then they show you on TV, and you're sitting there with this amazing suit, black, tie, white shirt, and you're getting your hands wrapped.

It was unbelievable. Yeah, I don't know. It's just kind of the way it went. You didn't think that people would use this as more proof as to why there is a connection between you two? I'm not really into trying to make people think I'm a certain someone. I'm just there to fight, really, you know? Right.

That's all. It just came out that way, I guess. By the way, I appreciate you doing this interview on Victoria Day. That's a big day over there. Oh, yeah. BCA. Well, no. In Canada, too.

All over Canada. You're in Montreal right now, right? Oh, yeah, Victoria Day. I don't even celebrate holidays anymore. I never know because I have a job where I work every day. Holidays don't really. You had no idea today was a national holiday in Canada. I did, but I forgot.

Right. Yeah. It's good that you don't have to... Well, no, I was trying to give you props for coming on. I thought you'd be at a barbecue or something. No, I'm on my patio. Well, that seems holiday-like. Yeah, I guess so.

It is kind of like a holiday today. So getting back to your fighting career, I still believe... You know, I was saying when I was trying to build this up before you came on, the winner of this fight, I mean, you look at the rankings, you look at who's there, you're fighting for a spot at the number one contendership. Is that what you're fighting for? Probably, I guess. I guess this is up to see how the fight goes.

I think if it's anything similar to my previous fights and Jake's previous fights, I think we'll put on a good show. And, yeah. So you know what my follow-up question is, right? Yeah, but don't do it Because you know the answer You know, I've taught I hope I'm not offending you or anyone

Involved in this story But I truly believe that if post comes to shove You guys will fight Everyone's allowed their opinion I mean Am I wrong? No, I mean Right now

No, no we're not fighting Me and Georgia friends And journey partners And we'll have our own arrangement to figure it all out, like, when the time comes. Like, it's not going to come to us fighting. Like, teammates and friends, you know what I mean? We're here to help each other.

What kind of arrangement? I don't know. I haven't just figure it out. Oh. But you said... I'm not there yet. I mean, I'm more focused on Jake than anything. I mean, I'm taking it one step of the time.

You know what I mean? I'm sure at one point, you know, I'll, I'll be the champ of the division. That is my goal. And, you know, I'm not just here, I'm not just here to be the number three guy or the number four guy, whatever I am ranked. You know, eventually I'll get there.

And now I feel like you're playing with my emotions, because first you said you're fighting for a number one contender spot, then you said you're not fighting G's P. And then you said you're going to be the champ one day. So I'm not sure what to think. Are you, is this some kind of mind game that you're playing with me? I mean, only God knows what's going to happen in the end. Oh, you're playing the God.

odd card. Yes. I'm bringing a religion. All right. I don't know, man. I'm just taking it one step and I'm one day at a time. I'm going to fight Jake and we're going to see what happens. You know who says things like I'm taking it one step and one day at a time?

Who's that? Hockey players. There's a boring cliche right there. I'm sorry. That's just actually like how it feels. So is it possible that you win this fight and then you go up to middleweight? Maybe.

I mean... Because your body's changing, right? Yeah, I mean, I'm getting bigger. I don't see changing. It sounds weird. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's not sex-ass class.

That's going to be the next comic strip. That's the guy does. Roy McDonald's undergoing puberty at what? What are you? 25 or something? 20, almost 24. Almost 24. That's just not even go there.

Okay, fair enough. How hard is it to cut the weight these days? Oh, it's not. I have a good nutritionist and diet plan, so I do most of my weight cut through just dieting. I don't really cut much water. I don't sauna very much. It's just like nutrition-based. What do you walk around at?

Like 200. Oh, wow. Yeah. And you're fighting for the second time in a row in Seattle. Do you think they did that on purpose because of where you're originally from, BC? I don't know. I think it was just good timing. You know what I mean?

It was just kind of just fell into place. I don't think that it was set up. I mean, it worked good for me, work good for Jake. Work good for the USC. I think that's all. How many people, I mean, do you get a lot of friends and family coming to the fights because you live so close to there? Or you're from, you know, so close to there?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, last time a lot of people came out. After the fight, we had a nice dinner and stuff, and it was really nice night. So, you know, hopefully we could do that all again. That fight was seen by millions of people. You're obviously the subject of the Road to the Octagon special. We got to see a bit of a different side of you.

Has life changed for you? Do you notice that people treat you differently, notice you more, act differently around you? Do you sense that since you fought on Fox? Um, I mean, I get noticed here and there. you know, in public, I guess. But no, my family and friends, everything's the same. Training's still the same. Life is still the same.

But when you go out on the streets of Montreal, or even if you're in another city, you feel like you get more attention. Yeah, but it's not like, I don't know, it's just like kind of sometimes people just be like, hey, Rory, I like your fights, keep doing it or something like that, you know what I mean? Like, it's just kind of like, you know,

people come and say nice things. It's not like, yeah, it's just that kind of stuff. They're not intrusive. No. I mean, sometimes people say, like, I've had a couple weird things happen at, like, autograph signings. Oh, yeah. Like what?

One guy, what did he say exactly? It really caught me by surprise. I think I was in Montreal I was in a sign and I came out to me and was like he was really nice and I signed his picture

took a took a picture with him and he's like I don't know if this is my place but you know the whole cocky attitude you should drop it

and not good for him and I was like what are you talking about like it was like it was something like that like cocky or asshole or something like that.

I was just like, wow, like, that was just like some back advice. I mean, I don't know. It was just kind of... It was a little too forward. Yeah, it was forward, and I was just like, I was kind of like, shit. I didn't know I was trying to be cocky

or if I was acting cocky. I mean, I was just trying to speak my mind and tell the truth. I mean, I really don't feel like my attitude is cocky. I feel like maybe confident. when I talk about my fighting, but I don't think cocky. You know what I mean? Now you know why athletes don't like to speak their mind,

because any time they try to tell the truth, they get criticized for it. Yeah, I guess there's plus and minuses from it, I guess. Don't know. Don't let those people sway you, though. We like real talk. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. I'm sure some people who are a little bit more intelligent can figure it out

when they watch something, like an interesting. interview or something. And so some of those guys are acting weird. What about the ladies? Are they treating you well as far as getting more attention now that you're a TV star? Yeah, I have a really nice girlfriend, actually. It's taking good care of me now. So just one lady.

You're off the market? Yeah, I'm off. Now, but wait a second. Did she come into your life after the Fox event? No. No, I know her for a long time. All right, all right, because then I would have been a little concerned, honestly. No, yeah, no, she's a good girl.

So have you known her since prior, since before you joined the UFC or post-UFC debut? Prior. Oh, wow, this is a real keeper. She's stuck with you throughout all of this. Oh, yeah, all of the king of the cage and all that stuff. Wow. And does she live with you in Montreal? Yeah.

Wow, this is great. I'm very happy for you. I didn't know about all this. She's going to be pissed that I'm talking about around here. So we should probably end. Why? Why? This is great. She's very shy. Oh, she's very shy. Well, we didn't say her name.

Yeah, exactly, yeah. Probably bad for your image to say that you're tied up right now because I think that's people like to know that you may be attainable. Yeah, whatever. Again, we go back to the honesty. Okay, so we have this fight. Has training camp even started yet for you? Well, I'm always training.

I try to always be in the gym. So, yeah, I guess. I mean, yeah. Okay. And in your opinion, biggest thing you have to worry about from Jake Ellenberger? Oh, well, I'll be, help be prepared for everything. He's obviously pretty well-rounded guy and heavy-handed.

He's probably the most heavy-handed guy I've ever fought. So that'll be a, you know, a big thing to watch out for, I guess. Yeah, but I'll, I just, I'm just worried about myself. I just, I just like to think, like, you know, Rory, get yourself to your best, your abilities, in the shih Tzu area, wrestling, kickboxing, boxing, everything, try to be sharp and be able to put it together perfectly, you know? That's what I tell myself when I'm getting ready for a fight. I don't, I don't look at it like, oh, okay, this guy, he's got a black belt and jiu-jitsu and this and this and karate. something, you know what I mean? So I got to do this and this. I'm not really so much into that.

I just like to be like, I got to get to where I got to be, you know what I mean? That's all. And everything else will figure itself in the cage. You know what I mean? He should worry about me. That's the way I look at it. Would you say he's the toughest guy you fought? I don't know. Carlos beat him, didn't he? Yeah, I'm just getting curious about, you know, just as far as how he matches up. I honestly think he's one of the top guys in the division and is a threat to anybody in the top five. You know, if everybody in the top five fought each other, I'm sure there'd be winners on different days.

You know what I mean? No one would win 100% of the time. I don't think. You know, it's a very close division and everyone's super talented. So I have a lot of respect for all the guys out there. And I just think I'm excited to be fighting guys like this finally. It's been a long road to get here, and, you know, finally fighting some of the best guys in the world,

what I've dreamed of doing since I started. Well, I am excited for it, too. We won't take up any more of your holiday. I know it's a very important day for you, Victoria Day. So we appreciate the time, and if you want to watch Rory McDonald live in person, it is July 27. That's the date. It's Key Arena in Seattle, Washington.

UFC on Fox 8, Rory McDonald versus Jake Ellenberger. Always great to talk to you, Roy. I really enjoy it. I appreciate the honest. see the candor. And do me a favor, just think about the Canadian Psycho. I really think this could be huge for you. This could take you to a whole other level as far as sponsorship, marketability, all that stuff. Just sleep on it, all right? All right. Thanks for the advice. And thanks for the talk.

Thank you, Roy. I appreciate it. And if you want to listen to interviews, just listen to ours. Don't, you don't need to listen to anything else. If you're too overwhelmed by media, just listen to this show, it's the only one worth listening to it. I catch your show on the TV sometimes. Wow. Thank you, Roy. I appreciate it. Yeah. Talk to you soon. All right, buddy. Take care. is. Rory McDonald's stopping by the Canadian Psycho himself.

I'll dub him that. Why not? Isn't it fun talking to Rory McDonald? I enjoy it. That's a great fight. And I still believe, I'll still say it. I still believe they'll fight. And I think it'll be one of the biggest fights the UFC can do. I think

if Roy McDonald wins this fight, if George St. Pierre beats Johnny Hendricks, just tell me where to sign up. Rory versus GSP, Roger Center, Olympic stadium, Montreal, Roger Center, Toronto, BC Place, Vancouver, tell me where to sign up. I will be there with Bells-on. That will be a massive fight, a huge fight, gigantic fight, which is bigger.

What's bigger? Massive, huge, or gigantic, I'm not quite sure. Put all those together, it would be a big deal. And I'd love to see it. And they could be friends afterwards. They don't have to hate each other. I just want to see them fight. Same thing with DC and Kane.

just want to see them fight. I don't care about the drama of teammates is that. Stylistically, I think it would be a great fight. Both of them. Kane has to get by Bigfoot Silva on Saturday. All right, let's take some more Twitter questions, then we'll get to the RPI. We have a phone caller.

Let's do that one first. We have a phone caller. James in California, are you there? Hey, how's it going, man? Good talking to you again. What's up, buddy? How are you, man? I'm doing great.

How are you? It's my good friend James. James with the Z do well with the Z that's right I've seen you since UFC 157 I think

I know I've been avoiding you I have two quick questions for you shoot question one I know recently

the commission dropped the TRT ratio from 6 to 4 I believe I think it's absurd because I don't think it makes a difference

or does it. And they know you take a butt. You don't think TRT makes a difference? No, I know what I'm saying, like the ratio from six to four being dropped. Oh, you think it should be what most male are one to one? I think it should be like either you can take company

or you can't. Well, you know, part of that is they want to leave themselves some room in case there's, you know, human error, blah, blah, blah. But, I mean, it brings up the bigger question whether or not TRT should be legal. It's obviously a very hot topic now with Vitor Belfort. My take on it is, A, you shouldn't, if you're 35, 34, 36, 37, 40, you shouldn't be able to feel like you did when you were 23.

You hear a lot of these guys say, well, I don't feel the way I did. Of course, that's what aging is all about. That's life. I tend to believe that when you are a high level. fighter who has been training and competing your whole life that you probably, unless you've been doing some stuff that was illegal and that it harmed your body, you probably aren't lacking in testosterone compared to someone like myself who, you know, knock on wood, probably will never need this because I'm just a general, normal guy who's not looking to, you know, compete in

some type of, you know, a high-level fighting match. So I have a hard time believing that these, that so many guys need this when I don't know anyone who's my age, you know, who's a friend of mine who's ever even been talked about or even dabbled or even thought about using any of this stuff. And then there's the other issue of if you have a past in, you know, if you've been caught using any kind of PD, if you tested positive, high levels of testosterone like Vitor Belfort, steroids, et cetera, et cetera. Well, there's a clear connection between that and having loads of.

testosterone later on your life, should you be able to pump yourself up with synthetic testosterone to find out, or to be able to, you know, compete with people at this stage in your life? The UFC is trying to, you know, combat this as much as they can because the other thing that happens is people who use this, they, you know, they're able to recover, they're able to come back, train harder, do all this stuff, and then, you know, that that obviously helps you when you come and fight. So they're trying to do these random tests that will allow you, or stop you from, you know, going up here and then coming down here, pushing yourself up to here, and being able to do those extra rounds, extra sets, et cetera, and then having that advantage come fight night.

It's a sticky situation. It's a dirty situation. And quite frankly, I'm not even quite sure how they're going to be able to figure this out unless they just ban everything. How can you, the only way that you can truly tell if someone is, you know, the ratio of synthetic to real testosterone, in their body is to do these carbon isotope ratio tests where they find out by blood testing them, they find out how much synthetic testosterone is in their system as opposed to real testosterone. And then you could find out, you know, who's abusing what. But most commissions don't do that because it's very expensive. And so unless they just outlaw all of it, I don't really know how they're going to be able to combat this.

That was a long answer for you. Are you even still there? He's gone. Is he there? All right. Let's move along. New York, Rick, are you there? I'm here.

All right. I'm assuming people have asked about this, right? Quite a few people have asked about this. Let's get into it. Let's do it. What a strange, annoying part of our sport right now. Here's our first question. Yeah.

As a journalist, oh, this is from Kevin Thang, skip to my Js. We've got him on quite a few times. As a journalist, do you think Vitor was out of line with his response to John Morgan when he asked about his TRT use post-fight. I'm happy, skip to my thing, or skip to my chase, I'm happy you asked about this because we have the clip in question. I thought someone was going to bring this up. I wanted to bring it up.

Let us roll the clip from the post-fight press conferences after Vitor Bellfort's win on Saturday night, John Morgan of MMAJunkey.com, ask Vitor a question about TRT, and you'll hear Vitor's response, and then I'll weigh in. I know how, I know you hate it. I know you don't want to hear about it, but, I mean, it's all anybody's talking about Joe Rogan even tweeted about it. I mean, how frustrating is it that every time you do something good, people just want to ask you about testosterone

and how much that's playing in your life. And can you just address that? Can somebody beat him up for me, please? Can somebody beat him up? I'll tell you what, TRT doesn't land that kick to that. You're shato, bitch. Yeah, man. You're shato p'am, man.

You're boring. Get out of here. Come on. Get out of here. Fair enough. I apologize. Luke, you did make a comment there. I know you'd been outspoken. It sounded like you said that that wasn't credit for the kick. TRT had nothing to do with that kick. It was good.

Thank you. Fantastic. And Vitor, do you feel like you deserve the title shot at this time? I'll ask you that question. You feel like you deserve the title shot? He just trains hard. So that was that portion. And while we're at it, let's just go to another portion of the press conference. a Brazilian journalist

as Vitor Belfort about his TRT use and this is what he said. Rito from Terra Portal I'd like to ask Vitor if this thing of being better than ever in his career and in his life is this linked to the TRT treatment?

Where are you? Are you joking? You're joking, aren't you? Come on, Luciano Hook. Stop that. I was very, disappointed when I heard these two responses for many reasons. First off, as I said on Saturday night after his win over Luke Rockhold, it is almost hip now to hate on Vitor Belfort, to criticize him more. I don't quite understand. Okay, look, the reason why Vitor Belford gets more

criticism than people bring up Chal Sun and Dan Henderson, other guys who are on TRT, and some have asked why does he get asked about him more? Those guys have been asked about it. I've asked them many times about it, they get their fair share of questions. The reason why he gets more questions, more criticism, in my opinion, is because of his incident back in 2006 when he was suspended by the Nevada State Athletic Commission for high levels of testosterone. So, you know, Keith Kaiser has said recently that he would have a hard time he would have to think twice about giving out a therapeutic use exemption to Mr. Vitor Bellford because of his past, because of the incident in 2000. because as I mentioned earlier to James on the phone, one of the reasons why you may have low levels

of testosterone is because of steroid PD use in the past. But forget about all that for a second. One of my big issues with MMA media these days is that I feel like a lot of people in the media, and I'm not singling anyone out, this happens to me as well. We get bullied. We are tried, fighters, other people try to intimidate us, and as a result, you don't see the best of us. You don't get the best questions. You don't get the best press conferences. You don't get the best interviews because we are afraid of situations like this. We are afraid of reactions like this. I said on Saturday night that it is hip to hate on Vitor Belfort, but you can't deny him this. You can't deny the class that he has exemplified in answering these questions and answering. the sort of criticism that he has received or dealing with the criticism that he's received. And also, he has had a wonderful career turnaround. He has fought some of the best.

He's been some of the best. That to me was not classy. That to me was being a bully. That to me... And I don't know what the history is. I don't know what the history is between him and John Morgan. I don't know what the history is

between him and the Brazilian media. But to joke, even to joke in a foreign country about beating up a journalist, an American journalist, about asking someone, hey, well, someone beat this man up, not even answering the question.

There is a thousand different ways that you could have answered that question. And by the way, listen to the question. It wasn't even that bad of a question. Actually, it was in favor of him. It was, are you tired of dealing with this criticism? Are you tired of having to answer the critics after every great performance?

That is not really questioning, you know, what he does, his TRTUs, testosterone, all that. It's really not. It was actually giving him an out to say, what can you say about me now? When is it going to stop? What more do I have to do? and even Luke Rockhold gave him an out.

But he didn't take the out. He said, I'm not answering you the question. I'm not talking to you and all this stuff. And, you know, look, everyone deals with it differently. I'm not sure if I would have apologized in that position. But, you know, that's a tough spot to be in. That's that you're in Brazil. Not many American journalists there.

I get it. And then to the Brazilian journalist looking at him and not even answering the question. And, again, it wasn't even that bad of a question. He said, I'm stronger than ever. Well, when I tweeted that, you got a thousand responses, of course you're stronger than ever. Perhaps a poor choice of words. You're at a press conference.

You've got to take the good with the bad. And I think Vitor Belford throughout his career, and that's what I said to his manager, Glenn Robinson, on Twitter yesterday when he was questioning me bringing this up. It can't always be so rosy. We can't always be in agreement. We can't always be on the same side. We have to sometimes ask questions.

We have to ask why Nick Diaz wasn't at the workouts. We have to ask about the TRTU, so you're on it, and you're fighting better than ever arguably. These aren't tough questions. Honestly, they really aren't. It could be so much worse. It really could. I mean, we want to grow as a sport. We want to be mainstream, all that stuff. Guess what? If the New York Times and other major outlets are there, those questions are coming and then some. It's not that bad. So if you're at a press conference, if you're agreeing to come there,

answer the questions. Answer them as you want, but just answer them. Don't make jokes about beating people up. Don't say talk to the hand. Don't ask someone, are you serious with this? Just answer the question. This is part of being in the public eye. You're on it. You've done a great job of handling it in the past. And as I said to Glenn, he has set this standard. He's a very classy guy for the most part. He's always been very nice to me. And I have respect for him. But in that situation, I didn't think that was classy. I thought that was being a bully. And I thought that was someone trying to intimidate someone else. And it wasn't even a bad question. Listen to the question. And I see all the fans. I hear all the fans saying, get off it. He just had

a win. No, that's when you're supposed to ask those questions. That's when you're supposed to ask those questions at a press conference. Where else are you supposed to ask those questions? He just had an amazing win. We told you about historically what it meant. This is when in baseball, when guys started hitting 50 home runs, when they started having career rejuvenations, the questions started coming up and look what it led to. This is when you asked the questions. Historically and physically, you are not supposed to get better with age. It happens. It happens. and great for you if it happens. But if you're getting better with age

and you have this pass and you're on this stuff, you have to expect the questions. And you could be innocent, and we want to believe you're innocent, but answer the questions, and don't turn questions, press conferences, into bigger issues to allow people to scrutinize you.

Now you have people putting out pictures, side-by-side photographs of how you looked a couple years ago as opposed to how you look now. That all leads to speculation. That all leads to criticism. That all leads to rumors, whispers, all that good stuff. You don't want that to happen. And when you answer questions like that, when you handle the media like that, when you deal with the media like that, it leads to

those questions. That's not good for you. That leads people to doubt you more. I was very disappointed and I don't think, honestly, and I'm not trying to say, people say you're on your soapbox, you know, oh, holier than thou, you deserve to get slapped, all that stuff. That's not what it's about. End of the day, we have a job to do. We're just there to ask questions to serve our audience. that's it. And I think people sometimes mistake us bringing up these issues for us being on a soapbox, us thinking that we're bigger than the sport. No.

The guy asked a question, in response, the joke was to beat him up. That's unacceptable, in my opinion. I'm done. Okay, our next question. Also in relation to TRT and Vitor Belfort, we know Vitor Belfort thinks his TRT use isn't wrong, but does he honestly believe he's winning these fights be solely on his own merits? I mean, why not?

I think he does. Nothing, I mean, I can't answer for him. Nothing that he says makes me believe that he thinks he's cheating. And look, I asked them about it. I asked him many questions about it. He joked that, you know, who do I work for? TMZ. Remember when he joked about that?

That's, you know, he believes he's doing something right. He believes he needs this. So that's fair. Say that. I had issues in the past. their personal issues, whatever, talk to us about it. But it's out there in the open. You fought in Brazil a couple times. All these things lead to questions.

So we'll ask the questions. You answer them, but just answer them. Answer them any way you want. But answer them. Don't, I think telling people to talk to, it's just, that leads to the doubt. And that's not the Vitor Belford that we have known in our careers covering him thus far. By the way, what's going on with the stream? Is it down?

Looks to be down. Back here, it's still streaming, but we're looking into it right now. Okay. Our next question from Trevor Cameron. Will Vitor Belfort's recent success promote TRT use, or will the criticism he receives be a deterrent to future TRT users? You know, I wonder. Someone brought that up. I really truly wonder how this will affect other people.

Look, look, if it comes out in the open, I would think twice about it. Do I believe that there are fighters who are abusing TRT 1,000%? 1,000%. I just don't believe that there is such a small sample size of 300 to 350 fighters that so many guys need this. And guess what? The UFC agrees with me because they're doing this extra testing. Dana White agrees with me because he's the one that said enough is enough.

After Vitor's last win, by the way. Not sure if that's coincidental or not. But then they're starting to test these guys. Chale said he had extra testing. Vitor Belfort said he had extra testing. Dana has confirmed this. So they agree. Do you really want to subject yourself? It's getting to the point where if you use this, you're subjecting yourself to a lot more scrutiny, a lot more testing, a bigger spotlight on you. The days of just going to your doctor some guy and him saying to you, you need this stuff, and you doing it without any repercussions, are over. They're done. I would think twice about it. Because I think a lot of guys are cheating.

I don't know who. And I don't know why some guys get more criticism than all that stuff. But there are a lot of guys cheating. And hopefully the good that comes out of all of this, and I hope it's not a Vitor's expense if he truly does need this. And he says he does and let's believe him. But hopefully the good that comes all of this is that guys stop cheating and using this because I do believe, as Brian Stan said, that it makes you better in camp, it makes you better in the gym, it makes you stronger, faster, it makes you recuperate quicker, all that stuff. And that, at the end of the day, you know, Luke Rockhold, surprising to me, said, okay, a TRT doesn't, you know, give you the ability to throw a high kick like that.

It may not have given you that ability, but it can give you a lot of stuff leading up to that point. Our next question, you address this a little bit. Do you think it's wrong that people assume that fighters on TRT are abusing it, or using it illegally. That's a problem. That's a problem. Because what's happened now is, and this happened in other sports,

what's happened now is that if you're on it, people think you're cheating. And that sucks. That sucks if you really do need it. And in another sport, if a guy hits a, you know, has a great season, hits 40 home runs,

it's come to the point where they think you're cheating. That sucks. That means all the cheaters ruined it for everyone else. But I think, the only way to rectify that is you have to strip it all down and then build it up and you have to show legitimate evidence that you need this stuff. And honestly, a lot of the fighters who do it,

and maybe they don't have to do it to us. Maybe they're doing it behind the scenes. But as far as publicly the way they answer the questions, the way they deal with it, it leads one to question things. And that's why, look, everyone reacts in a certain way. There's got to be a reason. for it, right? I mean, and it sucks that everyone's getting painted with the same brush, that one guy, you know, because of one guy may be cheating, everyone is considered a cheater, but that's what happens when you cheat. I mean, it ruins it for everyone, right? I mean, that's what happened in baseball. It's happened in other sports as well, and it's starting to happen in our sport. And that's unfortunate, because if you really do need it, if you really have a medical issue, and you need this

to live your life, you're now put in a very tough position. next question. Would you like to see a top fighter do a publicly documented TRT experiment so that we can see the difference? I imagine the difference between somebody who's on TRT and not. I mean, that would be very hard. I would love if, I mean, can you imagine

if a fighter brought us into his world and showed us what he has to go through, why he has to do this, how he was different before and after? I mean, it would be fascinating. I just don't think someone's going to bring us into that world. I agree, but it would be eye-opening. It would be.

eye opening, it would be the best. I mean, imagine someone, I mean, even if a regular Joe, an amateur fighter, you know, said, all right, I had five amateur fights and now the next five I'm going to do it on TRT or something like that. I mean, by the way, testosterone, you cannot just pump yourself up with testosterone. That is illegal, right? I mean, as a fighter, that's why they have the levels. You can't just pump yourself up. So, again, if you're on TRT, you have to show that you need it for an actual medical reason that you are failing.

at life that you are struggling if you're not on this stuff. Not because you want to feel like you did back at 23. John Jones talked about this and actually put it very well. That's what happens. You grow older. You can't feel that way. You shouldn't, historically, physically,

the way athletes go, you shouldn't be getting better with age. Now, there are exceptions to the rule, and there are some who just continue to just be excellent, right? But historically, you shouldn't get better with age. Our next question. who should Jacaray fight next as Comose was not near top level to judge where he is at in the middleweight division? You know, I said on Saturday that I think he should fight Vitor Belfort next,

but I'm not quite sure after thinking about it if he has fought the level of competition that warrants a shot against Vitor Belfort. I would like it. I think it would be a fascinating fight. I'm just not sure if he's going to get it. And actually he said on Saturday that he doesn't believe he's going to get it. Well, he fought Luke Rackold. Luke Rockhold just fought Vitor Belford.

But he lost to Luke Rockhold. Well, debatable. Close enough that it's a debate. And if he hasn't fought the level of competition worthy, then I don't think Luke Rockhold has either. Yeah, you're right. I mean... And here's the thing.

Daniel Cormier came in and got Frank Muir right away, another strike force import. Gilbert Melendez came in and got a title shot. I think that Jocchre has proven that he's a capable and a fighter that he's in that conversation, that he earned a shot at at least somebody as good as Vitor Belfort.

And on skills alone, we all know what he's got in the toolbag. And I think that he's up there. Looking at the rankings now, I think the fight, if they're not going to give him Vitor Belfort, I think a fight that makes a lot of sense. And I feel like his name comes up every time we talk about a middleweight matchup, but this one really actually makes sense is Michael Bisping. I agree.

Michael Bisping or Yushinokami. I like both of those. I just think that, I think that he's worthy of a fight with Vitor. That's just my opinion. You want to see that next? I think it would be a good fight with him and any of those guys, honestly. But I'm really high on Jacaree.

I really think he brings in some real new, interesting matchups, some new life in the UFC's 185-pound division. I really like what he did. I mean, obviously on Saturday, again, not sure if Camozzi is on his level, and he showed that. I'd like to see him against any one of those guys. Any one of those three guys. It's no secret how I feel.

I've been... You love him. Yeah, I've been talking about Jacqueray. I don't know who likes him more. You or Chal Sunnet. Geez, Chale Sunnan on fuel is just glowing about this guy. I don't know who he likes more. Him or...

Or what's his name? Gunner Nelson. Loves Gunner Nelson. Well, that's another stud out there. What's going on with the stream? A stream's fine. No, it's not. It's not working.

So, moving on to the next question. Why? Why? Why? Why can't we address it? The stream's fine, Ariel. Why? Because you're talking. No, let's be honest.

Wait, because you're saying, because in the replay, the stream will be better? The stream is fine. Why? It's not. I'm looking at it. Why are you lying to me? We're streaming, but there's some kind of thing with live stream where it's not refreshing. Okay.

Why are you lying to me? Because this is bogging down the show, and we're already at 412. Well, there's a lot of people who are very concerned. Anyways, they can't even hear. Yeah. Okay, okay. Let's continue. All right, all right.

Our next question, now that we've seen the guys from Strike Force make their debuts, who do you think will have the biggest impact in the UFC? Biggest impact? Honestly, well, let's forget about the women. Cormier or Jacqueray? In my opinion, it's Cormier. But Jacaray is right there. And I mean, Gilbert, you can't count him out either.

I think he should be champ right now, so. Well, yeah. But I'm going to go with Cormier and Jacaray. Yeah. Those are great choices. Thanks. Next question. Why are fly weights given second-class treatment?

Two top-10 fly-wates on Facebook while Hafaya Natal is on the main card. I don't get it, Ultimate Warrior. I really don't. I don't understand it. Those are fun fights. They need to build up those divisions. You have John Maraga going from Facebook prelim

to the main event of Fox. Didn't care much for the Sapo fight, especially once it changed. I have no answer for that. I really don't. I have no answer. I'm not the one to answer that question. Do you have any idea why?

It makes no sense. It just seems like they've done that in the past with fly weights. They just don't really like fly weights. I don't know. But the fans don't seem to share that. They seem to want to see these guys who are highly ranked on the main card. For the most part, I mean, and especially when it's, you know, the Sappho fight, I mean, those weren't top draws.

And a card like this, I don't see how it hurts having someone like that. Linneker, who I think is so exciting on the main card. You've got to build up those guys. You've got to build contenders. Yep. Next question. Thoughts on Dana White being more outspoken than other promoters and presidents by saying someone was robbed instead of just covering it up. Well, in a nutshell,

that's the beauty of Dana White, because like we were talking about with Rory. I mean, this sport is different. Guys are outspoken, guys are real, guys are you know, they're authentic and it all starts with him. It trickles down to the other fighters. That's just you know, that's been part of his

success. He doesn't, he doesn't try to, you know, make things all rosy. He doesn't try to, okay, say that this was right, even though deep down he thinks it was wrong. That's his beauty. That's why he's great on Twitter, interviews, et cetera, et cetera. That's just, you know, you wish all people in the public eye were that honest. For the most part, he has said that he will lie to us from time to time, but you catch my drift. Our next question. Will Mark Hunt still have to fulfill all his his media obligations. If so, will that negatively impact his performance? I don't think so. There's only really one day. There's, there's, there's a ultimate media day, as they call it, on Thursday. And that's it. There's no workout on Wednesday. You know, it happens.

I think it's being made out to be a much bigger deal than what it is. I mean, there's two things, first of all. First of all, there's two things. First of all, you know, he wanted to go out really early. He was trying to go out like almost two and a half, three weeks early, right? Doesn't have to. Smart move. I commend him for that. He's going out on your typical Sunday night Monday. Two, he could have, he could have gotten on, you know, I mean, it would have been hard because he has kids and everything, but if he was really, truly dedicated and wanted to not be affected by all this, he could have just gone on, you know, Pacific time zone in New Zealand and got his body acclimated. That's tough, but doable.

needless to say, you know, we'll find out on Saturday if it affects him, but this guy has been in around, you know, combat sports for a long time, and he doesn't have to cut weight, so I'm not sure it will kill him all that much. My thing is just his style travels well. Yeah. It's not like, you know, Mark Hunt's needing to get some reps in there. You know what he's going to do, and he does it well. Yeah, I agree.

Here's our next question. With Barrow out of UFC Yon, 161, do they bump up Hendo Evans, take the main event from 162, or another fight from 162, or put a replacement in against Eddie Weiland? Well, here's the thing. The UFC has yet to officially say that Brow is out. I mean, that's what the reports are stating. It was first reported by Tatami.

Dave Meltzer of our site spoke to Dana White, and he said it's likely, it's probable. Not officially out. I mean, Hendo, honestly, I saw someone say this. I believe it was John Pollack say that this could be the first time that a main event drops off and no one truly cares or it doesn't affect paper views, I should say. I mean, I think a lot more people were looking forward to Henderson versus Evans and the Little Noggin Shogun, only because those guys just aren't as popular. You know, if there wasn't a belt on the line, they wouldn't be in the main event.

But I commend the UFC for putting the belt in the main event, the title fight in the main event. That being said, you know, I'm not sure. You know, Faber Weinlan, then if Faber wins again against the main event, Vince Weinland, you're back to the predicament of him fighting for the title again. I obviously don't think you're going to do another interim fight. So I think it depends on the injury, and maybe you just save Barow, Weinland, for another card coming up. There are a lot coming up that don't have main events. Maybe you just do that.

These are our last two questions. Which two teammates are more likely to fight? GSP and Rory or Jacqueray and Silva? Very good question. GSP Rory, a tri-star Jacaray Silva at X-Gim in Brazil. God, I would love to see both fights. Since I've been banging that drum, I'll say GSP Rory. What do you think?

I think Jokaray would be more likely to fight Silva. But, I mean, it's kind of a similar situation where they're not really talking about it that much as I won't fight that guy. They're not doing it proactively the way that, you know, guys like Cormier and Kane Velasquez are doing it. So I don't think either of those two fights are really out of the question. Yeah, but if I had to pick one, I'm going to go GSP Rory.

Probably because secretly I really want to see that photo. At least I've been thinking about it more. I would not be mad if that happened. Hey, the stream is back. There we go. Wow. Someone has to care about these things. Oh, believe me. Buzzkill is...

Sure. He was napping. Tracking the whip back there on the phone. What else he got? Here's our last one. It's not so much a question as an interesting photo. I'm not sure if you saw it yet. Oh, yeah.

You guys should show this. lookalike of Ariel that I saw on a poster in France. I definitely see it. What do you think? This is from my good pal, Jonathan Abramovich. He was so nice to my mother when she was in Montreal with me and he was at the open workouts. I actually, honestly, I think it looks a lot like me. Holy crap. I'll say this, the nose isn't, is more pointy than my nose. Mine's rounder, but golly. And maybe he's a little fatter than I am. What do you think? The neck seems a little bit. I can't tell if it's shadow or if he's bigger, but he does look bigger than you. It does look bigger, but yeah, that is me.

And clearly talented, so very much like me. He plays the, what is that, the saxophone, the trumpet? That's a trumpet. Yeah, what is the saxophone? Saxophone is rounder, right? Saxophone's the Bill Clinton, the one that goes. Lisa Simpson. Yes, yes.

That is the trumpet. It was kind of hard to tell it because he was pointing down, if you know what I'm saying. But, yeah, that's a doppelganger. That was it. All right. Good questions, everyone. what's your take on the Vitor Belfort situation? Well, I mean, that's kind of a broad question.

Just generally, my feelings are he didn't handle the question from John Morgan properly. But I think we've kind of beaten this thing to death. I'm not opposed to people asking more questions from him about it, but I think that it's kind of become... But that's the thing. People, you know, in MMA there's a tendency. there is a tendency for us to forget, right? You just forget.

Look at the Jeremy Stevens situation. I'll never come up. Look at the Shane Carwin situation, you know, him on that list. Oh, let's just not talk about it for a year and no one will ask about it again. You have to ask. I keep doing good. You have to ask. No, for sure.

I have no problem with people asking him about it. But I think if he addresses it, you know, enough times, then, you know, there's nothing more to say at a certain point. But even listen to the question, right? No, John Morgan's question was completely valid. It was giving him an out. It was actually giving him a platform to tell the haters FU. Right. All he had to say was, I don't like it.

Maybe something happened between him in the past. Still doesn't condone the joking of beating up and all that stuff. Absolutely. But I'm kind of in a place where Vitor's already ignored it enough times. He's not going to really open up about it fully. So continue to ask the questions, but don't expect some kind of forthcoming, forthright answer from him. The next step is let's find out who's testing him. How many times were they testing him?

What was it like when they were testing him? Absolutely, but I don't think those are questions for Vitor. No, no, no, no, no. No, you're 100% right. And by the way, let's, you know, I think a big message would be sent if he fights in Nevada. If he fights in California next, I mean, continuing to fight in Brazil, that leads to other questions. You got to do that to try to, you know, if you're innocent and all that great. And like I said, he has handled it very well up until this point.

But I just thought that that was not the best way to do it. And I don't think you should treat media that way. And I'm not saying that we're better in a soapbox. None of that nonsense. But if you're at a press conference, be prepared to answer questions from the press. What else are you there to do? Absolutely. All right.

Let's move along to finally. Let's get to it. The second round of the Rickspix Invitational. It started with UFC on FX8. This is all you, baby. This is your thing. Talk to us about what happened. Give us the matchups now.

What transpired? Who screwed up? The upsets. What exactly happened on Saturday night? Okay, I'll go matchup by matchup. That might be easier. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's put the bracket.

First of all, first of all, let's just address it. I mean, you advanced, right? Congratulations. Yes, I advanced. We'll talk about mine first. It's easier that way. Yeah. So I went up against Mike Thesson.

Tyson. Tyson. I wish I went up against Mike Tyson. So I went up against Mike Dyson. He called me out and I defeated him by a very, very slim margin. We had a very similar betting structure. So it came down to the Rafael Dosanos and Evan Dunham fight. And I ended up benefiting from the decision going to RDA.

And that put me over the top. I hit all three of my bets. And I ended up with 228-62. Do you think he deserved to win? What do you mean? Deserve? No, he lost. Okay, all right.

So you are acknowledging the fact that you got a gift, but you did lose out on Gilbert Melendez. A lot of people thought, so this happens. It happens in betting. This bracket wouldn't exist if Gilbert Melendez had his hand raised, and I would have hit my $400 mark. So it happens in betting. I'm never one to shy away from saying if I thought,

a fight was controversial or not. It was definitely a close fight. I could definitely see it being scored either way. In my opinion, I had RDA winning, biased, whatever you want to call it. I'm willing to call a spade a spade. I thought there's, I bet on Diego Sanchez. I thought Go Mi won. I benefited from it.

In this case, I benefited again. And that was it. So he actually had the second most money. Wow. On the night, he had, I believe it was actually I have the number right here. he had 222225 and I ended up with 228.62. And what's interesting about this is you won $128.62. And throughout the Rickspix challenge, I kept saying,

why aren't you winning more? Why aren't you betting more? And now here you are. You're actually doing what I told you to do. You finally listen. No, different strategies. Why? Because it's a shorter schedule.

There's only four weeks. And going for broke is necessary because I have to outscore somebody else. whereas if I'm just shooting for a goal, I can bet conservatively try and pick up more shore gains and then put myself in better position later down the line. The reason I wasn't doing well was because I was making bad bets. It had nothing to do with the strategy. It had to do with the fact that UFC 156, I believe it was,

the one where Bigfoot knocked out Overeem and, Nag defeated Rashad, that one was thrown in there, and there were just cards that I didn't do too well on. But the strategy is different for this one, for sure. Not buying it, but congratulations. That's a pretty good start. Thank you, sir. $2.28.62. And what's amazing, what I love about the RPI is that Mike Tyson had 220 whatever, and he's out. He's gone.

All that smack talk. I mean, honestly, how nervous were you? You thought Dunham won. So at that point, before they read the judges... I thought RDA won. But when the judges were announcing the decision, I definitely didn't think it was a short thing at all. So you'd have been done.

How would you have reacted if you would have been done? First round, I would have said, congratulations. It would have sucked, though, right? Oh, of course. I don't want to lose. But as I said, that happens in betting. A close decision could go either way. And I've been on both ends of it.

And does it feel particularly good to be? beat this guy because he called you out, made the Twitter icon, all that stuff. Talk some trash. Absolutely. Yeah, it feels great. It feels good. It feels good, man. Yeah, it feels good. But he had a great effort, obviously. He had the second most. Not good enough. You can't, you can't knock them for that. So now we move on to round two where I'm facing the box father. The box father, who called you out? Yeah, he put up a great picture. Yeah. Now, I've got a $50-ish cushion. So that feels nice as well. What a, what an interesting dynamic. we have here.

So he did well. He bet he had $1.92. He had two $4 bets that one of them hit, but he put $92 on a parley of Jacaree and Fabio Maldonado, which didn't even pay plus money. So I don't necessarily agree with that strategy. But it did work, and he ended up defeating Trent, who was looking good.

He had a bunch of, he had bets on Linneker, Formiga, Glacin Teebao, and then he ran into problems when Hakran Diaz got defeated. That blew up his single bet and his parley, and he ended up not making enough. So the box father moved.

He picked Hakrin Diaz over Nick Lentz? Yeah, you'd be surprised. There was a lot of money coming in on Huckren Diaz. I was surprised about some of these picks. We could get those later, but yeah. I'll say this. Hachron Diaz is not one of those bad picks. All right, all right.

He was a live dog, and that was just unfortunate. So how much did Trent make or lose? No, he made. Oh, no, he didn't. He ended up with 8420. Ah, too bad. So Boxfather moves on with 175-36.

Nice little cushion for you. It's nice. Feels good. I like it. I like that now your face is. It feels like Mike Tyson's punchout. You're just knocking off all the haters. Well, yeah.

This is like your, what is this? Revenge tour. Yeah, it's your revenge tour. This next matchup was, was definitely one of the more interesting ones of the night. We had Hay Archer going up against Lee MMA only. And now both of these gentlemen got all of their bets wrong. They got all of them wrong.

Both of them, Stephen had, Hey Archer had three bets on Hollett, Comozy, and Dunham. He got all of those wrong for his full $100. So he ended up with $0 at the end of this. Lee MMA only had a bunch of parlays, and he got all of those. all of those wrong, but he only bet $10. So he ended up with $90. That is incredible. Defeating Archer who ended up with zero. Archer who made that great video ends up with zero. Was that the word? I mean, no one could get negative. Did anyone else get zero? Nobody else got zero. Gosh. Wait, I might be wrong about that. What a failure. Yeah, somebody else got zero. Mavs real.

Mav's real. Who's coming up later also got zero. Oh, gosh. Zero. I mean, I applaud them for, you know, swinging for the fences, but I mean, did you not listen to what I said? You got to be strategic here. Yep. Dummy. So he's moving on, and his opponent is NC17. Oh, yeah.

So he had quite a few bets. He might have had the most bets and quite a few wrong, but he got the ones, his top two bets. He had $30 on Belfort and 15 on Belfort and Jokkeret in a parlay, and those both came through, which kind of saved him. He only made $1.65. He only made $1.65. This is the guy who was showing us his rankings, how he makes so many.

You don't remember that? Well, as I said, pickum is not the same as betting. Sure, sure. Oh, you're right, you're right. Looking at his bets, though, nothing egregious on there. How did the faceless wonder, Big Kick do? Big Kick ended up with 7832. So he lost money.

Another one who had Hakran Diaz in a few of his plays and also Rockhold. So that's going to cost you if you have those two. Right. All right. So this side of the bracket, we have New York Rick versus Metra Davy, aka Boxfather, 22862 versus 175, and then you've got Lee MMA only $90 versus $101.65. That one's a tight contest.

That's a tight one. But Lee is going to have to step his game up. I got to admit, I mean, if you get by a box file, I think you can make it to the finals here. I'm not going there. I don't talk about it. Let's talk about the biggest beatdown of the mall. That would be this next matchup, right? Money-wise, it wasn't the biggest beatdown because.

Oh, yeah, because Darnell made four bets and they were all for $2. What the hell was he thinking? With 92. But that wasn't enough because, Wanabet actually made a lot of money when he hit a nice parlay. He had the Trinaldo Rio fight under 1.5 rounds, and Trinaldo choked out Rio in the first round. That one paid, he bet 15, it paid 82.92. It was a really sharp play there.

But honestly, what was Darnell thinking? Why was he making $2 bets against Wanabet UFC, of all people? I don't think he quite understood the part about going to the next round, the money carrying over. He was trying to make some profits, but also he picked guys who weren't going to pull it off. So not only did he make bad bets as far as how much he bet, he picked the wrong people. Well, it's always easier to say that in hindsight. Sure. Did he make any money?

No, he lost all four of his $2 bets. Well done. So want to bet is the real deal. Oh, yeah. Well, as I said, I can vouch for him. I've been talking about it on the show. He posts his picks on Sherdog. He knows what.

he's doing. He's a cocky little guy, isn't he? No, no, no, no. He's not. He's not. He's very respectful. Oh, yeah, that's okay. My bad.

I just thought with that name. And that's the way it should be. If betting isn't some kind of exact science. So if you're good at it, you know, just let your bank roll speak for itself. So how about this? Want to Bet UFC advances against our boy, Sean. Our boy, Sean. Now, he had three bets.

Two of them were wrong, but his biggest bet was a parlay. on Hafeo dos Anjos and Jacaray Sousa for $50 to win $37.50. Now, he ended up hitting that, and he also, so he didn't bet all of his hundred, which was what helped him out a lot. But our friend Irish rule also bet not enough money. He had a $15 bet, a $4 bet, a $3 bet, and a bet for $250. Got to put a little more out there if you plan to advance. So I can't really read it.

What does he have 191? Yeah. He has 191.69. And Sean is 122.50. Correct. Well, that's not so bad for Sean. It's not bad at all. He made a nice profit.

Wow. Who are you favoring in this matchup? I favor Wandabet in all these matchups. Including you? No, to meet me in the finals. Oh, that's what you're looking at. That's what you think is going to happen. He has to do his part.

Oh, snap. Well, Sean, congratulations. How much did Irish rule make, you said? Or lose? He lost. He ended up with 80-38. All right. Now, that's the matchup up there.

I like that, man. That is a fascinating matchup. Sean versus Wanabet. Wow. Can't wait for that. What's next? Our next Big Marley did quite well. Did he?

He's a cocky guy. No, he's pretty respectful. I want to hate someone here. There's nobody to hate. All these competitors are. worthy. He ended up with 182.40. Wow, not bad.

And he hit a few parleyes. In fact, he hit three parleyes. And the only fights he got wrong were the ones with Evan Dunham, which were controversial. So it was pretty solid betting night for Big Marley. He could have looked even better if the Dunham decision went his way. Up against Mavs Real, who put up no opposition, he bet $80 on Rockhold and 20 on Comozy. And those were both. gone instantly.

20 on Camozzi. 20 on Camusie. I can think the Rockhold. Rockhold is the favorite, right? Yeah, but 80 on Rockhold only pays 64. It's not really what you want to do. Maybe. Do you think he didn't quite understand what he was doing? I don't want to go there.

Let's just say, not a good night for him. And also, I'd like to point out that I went back and forth. On the show, I actually said I might bet on Rockhold, but I went back and forth on that one right up until the moment I submitted my pick. Did the Wayans have anything to do with it? Well, part of it was the way. Wayans when Luke asked for the towel right away. Oh, yeah.

I wasn't happy about that. And also the fact that I was able to get plus money on Vitor Belfort in Brazil by knockout at around 150. I think it was like 146 or something like that. So I couldn't pass that up. But I was leaning toward Rockhold for a good while there. And I don't know if you saw, it was very interesting listening to Daniel Cormier on fuel because he kept saying he looking very emotional, too emotional.

and I don't know if you fought that way it was such a short fight but there were some warning signals well as Luke said it doesn't matter that kick to the head was just you know something out of a video game and it's hard to really

counter something like that so big Marley advance and this to me is the greatest story of them all and this is what we were trying to set up here I mean we were giving her the opportunity the lone female in all of this defeats the quote unquote degenerate gambler from Las Vegas

Correct. Ashby LV was defeated by Lala Land 999. Oh my God. Now, she bet her biggest bet $60 on Vitor Belfort to win 63, and that ended up cashing. She lost money on Zeparino and Camozzi. But this is what I'll say. Ashby, Ashby LV actually hit a five-fight parlay. Wow. Very impressive. He hit Jacaree, Uri Alcantara, Glacentibou, Fabio Maldonado, and Paulo Tiago.

But he lost his biggest parley, which was for 50, with Vitor Belford and Evan Dunham. Now, that's another one where the controversial Dunham decision cost him. He would have had $226.75 just on that bet alone. Profit. Wow. He would have been first place. He would have been first place by a large margin. So that one ultimately cost him.

So the Evan Dunham fight really affected a lot of people. It really did. So La La Land is moving on to the next round. Lala Land versus a big one. Defeating a two seed Was that we had two six Oh we had a six over a three There were two upsets, six three and seven two

Which I could honestly I mean for the I tried to make them accurate I mean I think though Yeah I think they were kind of accurate right the seeds I don't know Who the hell knows Wow I can't believe she beat him

That's so amazing It's a great story So the final four Wait the final eight Excuse me the elite eight New York Rick versus Metro Davey. Lee MMA-only versus NC17.

Wanabet UFC versus Sean Sheehan and Big Marley versus La Lala Lahn. Yep. Wow. And we got 228, 175, 901, 123. What does Marley have? I got a glare. How much is he have? Marley has 182.40. He's got

a nice cushion there. So no one has less than 90 bucks. Nobody has less than 90 bucks. And no one has more than 228.62. And remember, guys, that's what you're playing with now. That's what you're playing with. There's a lot of money out there to play. So now it gets interesting. Some guys are at a disadvantage.

Some have an advantage. Gals, I should say. So what do you predict happens in the second round? Can you predict it for us? In the third round? That's rough. Well, this is the second round going into the third. You know what I'm saying.

I mean, I'm obviously moving on. That's a guarantee. Who do you think wins between Lee and NC? It's going to be rough for me to pick Lee. He's a great guy. He emailed me after the event, but it's going to be rough for me to pick somebody who, lost all his bets.

Prove him wrong, Lee. Prove him wrong. Believe me. I would love to meet Lee in the next round. Oh, that's not nice. What about Wanabed and Sean? Want to bet. I love Sean to death.

Great fan of the show, but I don't think he's taken out Wanabet. That would be a great upset. That would be fantastic. No bigger upset than Lala Lined over Big Marley. Yeah, that could be a good one too. There's a lot of potential here for some excitement. Marley's a Pacer fan.

I'll say openly I'm rooting for Lala Line. I don't care. I'm rooting for her to beat all of you guys. Is that wrong? Absolutely not. It's a great story. You can pick your horse. I don't know if she's my horse, per se, if I had to pick her, but you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, so. So it continues this weekend. UFC 160. Yep. Bigfoot Silva. Kane Velasquez, too. Obviously, at this point, you're not going to tell us who you're picking, right? That'd be stupid.

I mean, last time I previewed it a little bit. I could talk about something if... I mean, you can talk about... about whatever you want, but far are you. The fans have been asking me to do it, so I'll just talk about him briefly. Kane and Silva, I'm all over Kane, but not at the price.

Minus 700 for Kane, plus 500 for Bigfoot. I don't see any possible way Silva can win this fight. I don't see a cut where he's bleeding gallons of blood happening again, but I don't think there's any way Bigfoot can win this. So a prop bet on Kane might be possible. Dos Santos versus Mark Hunt, it's an interesting one because Hunt is good enough to knock out Junior, but Junior's just a little longer, a little better at pumping the jab than any of the guys that Hunt has faced before. So I think that Junior is going to take it.

But I don't know if I would bet on Junior. I might stay away at minus 400. And even like if a Hunt-K-O prop comes up and it looks pretty tasty, that might be something to do. Glover and Tohuna. I don't like Tehuna's chances in this one. I think Glover is just a superior fighter all around. He gets the takedowns when he needs to. Superior ground game, a little better on his feet.

Although Tehuna is very good on his feet. But I like Glover in this one. Prop bet, probably. I don't like him at minus 280. Maynard and T.J. Grant's minus 220. Grant is plus 180. Grant's a live dog in this one, I think, but I favor Maynard right now. Minus 220 is a little steep for me to go with Maynard.

But I think if he uses his wrestling the way he's capable of, the way he has in the past, I think that that's his fight to lose. Soroni and Noons. I don't like Soroni at minus 300. I think that's a little steep. Noons is a live dog at plus 250. I think it's possible that he could hang. So that might be one to keep an eye on. Trujillo and Namaga made of.

Huh. That's a good fight. That's a great fight. Minus 300 for Habib. And Abe is plus 225. That might be a live dog right there. Wow. As much as I like Nirmaga Madov and I really enjoy his style. Trujillo is a really tough fighter.

So that's one. That's an interesting one. And Rick Story and Mike Pyle. Pyle at plus 130, I might take a flyer on that one as well. I think Rick's story looked great in his last fight, but Pyle's one of those guys who's really putting it together right now. So Pyle's an underdog, that might be another play. Is it safe to say, from a betting perspective,

this card is a lot more intriguing than FX8? Maybe on the undercard, because the top is so heavy with favorites. Like, Junior and Kane are so heavy that it's going to be tough to get bets on them. Whereas the main event with the last fight, with Rockhold and Vitor was even money at certain, at different points. So that always makes it more interesting. What's Sean talking about? He keeps telling me about these beer pictures.

He took pictures with beer while watching the show. That's it? That's it. Do we see him? No, you kind of just see the beers and the MMA hour. Why does he think we get such a kick out of this? Don't know. He kind of failed on this week's pictures.

Is that what you're trying to say? I'm just saying Step your game up, Sean Well, give you all this air time Do something that will wow us Impress us He can wow us if he wins the The matchup this week with

That's true Want to bet UFC So maybe that's how he's going to do it All right So there you have it And you'll be doing the Google Doc thing And people can follow along I was happy to see that a lot of people

Were interested in following along With the Google Doc Excuse me, the Google Doc I was updating it in real time Every time a bet Either cashed or busted I would update the Google Doc, and people were able to follow along in real time.

So it was exciting. It was fun and look forward to it next week. Some Gibroni just wrote me on Twitter. Why do you have New York Rick opinion on your show? What has he done for us to hear his opinion? All caps, by the way. What has he done? He's gone to the second round of the damn RPI.

Are you kidding me? That's a huge feather in his cap. Second damn round. Not only that, first place. This is the Revenge Tour. It is also named after him, as will reminded me. Now, was that a private reminder? That was private. Nobody heard that.

It's named after me, folks. It's named after him. And Sean telling me that there are 15 people watching the MA hour while drinking beer right now. A whole 15. That's huge numbers right there. I mean, I'm drinking beer and I'm watching. All right.

Have we officially surpassed our longest show? You know what's funny? We might be right up against it. This might be like tied. Last week, I felt the show was a little too long, and I made a consciousness, and I said, you know what, I'm not going to make the show so long.

I need to scale it back a little bit. How the hell did we get to this point? 443. I blame the technical difficulties. Fair. If you missed any portion of the show, will the replay be available fairly soon, or is it going to be another 10-hour ordeal?

I don't think we're going to have an immediate replay available just because of the issue where it cut out in the middle. It's not except. But I'm going to try and get the audio. podcast, you know, the iTunes up as soon as I can. And obviously we're going to work as hard as we can to get the video replayed.

Weirdly enough, the audio went out or the stream went out just as we were talking about the whole Vitori TRT thing. Could it be that his buddy played a part in all of this? Oh, his buddy, I like it. I like it.

Anyway, all right, we're done. Mike, you can hit my music. A happy Victoria Day. To all of you, I'm going to pull a 20 coronizer. here and wave the flag. Now if you ask me what exactly does Victoria Day represent, I'm not quite

sure, but you can Google it, you can Wikipedia it. There it is. The true, nor strong, and free. Next week is Memorial Day. Will we have an American flag? Tune in. Find out. Nevertheless, a very fun show here, my friends. Good to be back, and

I'm sorry, I don't even know if you want the show to be shorter. Honestly, I don't know if you want it to be five hours, maybe six hours. I'm not quite sure. I felt like we went a little long last week. This week, I don't feel the same way. Floed nicely. Great guests, good vibe. Good times had by all. I want to thank Gray Maynard for stopping by. Wish him the best of luck on Saturday against T.J. Grant, a massive fight for him at UFC 160. A massive fight for T.J. Grant looking to get his first UFC title shot, wishing both of them the best of luck. How about John Cholish?

Speaking a lot about the UFC and fighter pay and life of the game. UFC fighter. Very interesting stuff out of John. Really appreciate him coming on the show and wish him the best of luck in his post-UFC career. Wonderboy Thompson, he is fighting on Saturday night against Nishon Varell. Looking forward to that fight, seeing how he rebounds. Good luck to him. Holly Holm. Good luck to her in her post-boxing career.

She makes a run in M.MA. Looking forward to seeing what she will do. Mike Hogan, how about his appearance? Interesting stuff out of Mike. Thank you very much to him. And Rory McDonald, always a pleasure talking to Rory McDonald. Congratulations to all the people who won. round of the RPI.

Everyone who sent in questions. Thank you so much. We'll be back for round two and all that good stuff. Next week right here on the Ameri. Peace. So many. Defenders in cybersecurity are always there when we need them. They should get a parade every time they block a novel threat

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